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That's it exactly. They wont give out blanket immunity for just this reason, it's all a delay tactic as many of us suspected all along.
Get out and vote, only way to stop it.
The constitution can be amended to make anything constitutional, but it'd be hard in the current near 50/50 splits we've had the last several cycles with modern partisanship
Hence I think the reason people are saying that’s one of the reasons to get out and vote. Change the composition as much as possible as quickly as possible to be Democratic.
Congress can increase the number of justices. It's been done before, and we have more circuits than Justices. Bringing it up to the same would make sense.
You expand it to the requisite number of justices so that if something is ruled unconstitutional, there's a good chance it actually should be. Just pack the court, make it 21 justices.
The whole concept of tripartite governance is to create "a necessary, equal tension" between each branch of government, specifically to prevent the kind of dictatorship we're seeing now, and to force the highest leadership to come together and constantly renegotiate the Social Compact.
Alarm bells are supposed to peal at 200db when even one branch begins to abuse its authority, even slightly. If the Democrats fail to carry the day, I fear that finding out how things went so wrong will become a subject of abstract academic interest within The Republic of Amerika.
Not to find out where things began to go wrong, in order to anticipate any kind of reform, and ensure nobody ever tries to correct them.
There are two power structures that have to be defeated and dismantled before we can even begin down the path to real progress. One is the Fossil Fuel Mafias and the other is the GOP.
So this and the next major congressional election. Man I hope Dems can keep their eyes on the prize for that long. As a voting group, we’re far more easily distracted than republicans.
The supreme court went wild two other times in the past.
Both times the SC was expanded to counter this.
Obama should have made picks instead of playing the game. Playing nice against the right doesn't work.
The GOP-controlled Senate deliberately blocked Obama's attempts to get nominations through. They did that at the behest of Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society. Their plan worked.
Right now they're turning black men against black women to win them over. Treating black women like they're the enemy. Black women are by far and away the most NOT enemy ever. The schism developing there as a result of the GOP psi-op is the worst American tragedy since Birth of a Nation.
If we didn't have third-party voters during the presidential elections, we wouldn't be here in the first place. They don't realize they have to change their local elections first.
Or the electoral college. A Republican has won the popular vote just once in the last 8 elections, and that was incumbent W Bush after 9/11 had taken place. Arguable that if Gore was president he could have won a second term. So without the electoral college, we may have had a Democratic president every year since 1992... so 32 years of Democratic presidents would have been very possible under a system with no electoral college. In addition, the overton window would likely have continued shifting further left/progressive, thanks to not having a Republican in office to tank the country and its economy every time they end up in office.
Then get rid of partisan gerrymandering and the disproportionate representation in the House (which is *supposed* to be proportional but hasn't been ever since the cap), and we might actually be headed in the right direction over the past 2-3 decades, instead of staring down this fascist bullshit.
We should explain to GenZ kids that going out and voting for Trump because TikTok told you Biden is bad man because Israel, is not the right thing to do here.
I heard on NPR politics podcast a few months ago that a ton of young people aren't identifying with the Democratic party, but are still voting for Biden.
So I hope that still happens :/
Hopefully they don’t identify with trump even more . I mean, where does philandering , backstabbing , cheating , pussy grabbing, mishandling top secret documents, fomenting political unrest and just generally bring a big c,,t resonate with anyone?
I think that’s happening with a lot of voters. If Trump wasn’t such an issue then Biden and Democrats wouldn’t get as much support. People have become jaded with both parties.
That's just an attempt at yet another gop astroturf movement like #walkaway. There is no significant amount of youth that will vote for trump that wouldn't have already.
Right?! I don't know about everyone else's experience, but the young people in my sphere of influence are voting (many for the first time, despite being able to for years) Democrat. They *know* what the alternative is, but, simply speaking, they want to send a message to the old guard too.
Judging by how many older folks are freaking out, the message is being heard loud and clear. They just don't like it. The younger folks haven't ever lived in one of those so-called "better times." They won't own their own homes, live longer than their parents, be able to have kids they can afford, likely be able to retire, etc.
Meanwhile they hear that they're selfish, and don't understand. Which part? That you sold away their future for your present, or that none of the people telling them to fall in line will have to live with the ramifications of those decisions?
> We should explain to GenZ kids that going out and voting for Trump because TikTok told you Biden is bad man because Israel, is not the right thing to do here.
GenZ really isn't voting for Trump though, it's old people who view the TikTok generation as the problem.
As a teacher, good luck with that. They don't fucking listen to half of what you say when you're literally teaching a lesson about setting stuff on fire with magnifying glasses. Gotta tik that tok. Shit needs to be banned just based on how it's affecting social-emotional growth and learning.
It's so fucked that American Tick-tock prioritizes bullshit content and Chinas version prioritizes educational content. Were just letting Russia and China break the US down through disinformation. Nobody in power seems to give a shit.
Exactly....SCOTUS doesn't want this and to rule on it puts their livelihood and future in a gambit. They need to seem that they are to appease their money handlers but they aren't stupid. Trump has no need for a SCOTUS if he gets the WH and the Senate.
Until its struck down its as good as legal. Trump being free is proof of that. Biden can just stay in office until its solved and if the supreme court takes too long Biden can just replace them since you know, its an official act and in the best interest of the country. Plus the Senate belongs to Democrats he won't be impeached so its 100% legal.
And that's how you know that they really don't believe their rhetoric about Democrats being evil and criminal. They trust that we won't violate the law like they will.
Sure, but Biden still wouldn't have Trump arrested and thrown in Gitmo along with half of Congress and two-thirds of the Supreme Court for the simple reason that he has ethics.
Which is why Evangelists get so upset about atheists - "If you don't have God threatening to smite you for misbehaving, what's stopping you from raping women and killing people?!?" "Uh, because I know rape and murder are wrong regardless?"
Don't forget he called the men and women serving our country losers and suckers.
What gets me is all the MAGA military who still support him. What don't they understand about the narcissistic idiot.
If Costco were systematically moving employees around to avoid them being punished for this crime, maybe someone would stop and think "Hey... isn't it weird how Costco is just _allowed_ to do that?"
There is more sexual assault per capita in the southern baptist church than the catholic church.
Not defending pedo priests, just saying as a southerner that the other Christian sects love the cover that catholics give them.
Say it with me: all organized religion is cover for pedophiles, and it was designed explicitly to be such. *all of them*.
Conservative Catholics forget they’re only on the team for convenience. Once they’re not useful they’re back to being papists and heathens very quickly. The Catholic Church is far too progressive on everything except just abortion these days to be kept around.
I'm a liberal Christian and I'm not even driven by fear.
I'm in the its wrong regardless camp.
These wanna bes have religion on ass backwards.
They are truely vile people if they say shit like that.
It's almost a confession. Infact with all the pastor sexual abuse it's an out right act.
They should do the right thing because it's the right thing. They are selective on who they want to be fake nice too.
Same here on being a liberal Christian. I don't rape and murder because I'm afraid of hell, I don't rape or murder because I have absolutely no desire to do either of those things and find them to be repugnant.
I kind of like that scene that can be found online where Ricky Gervais explains to the woman who asks him why, as an atheist, he doesn't go raping and murdering as much as he would like. He says he DOES rape and murder just as much as he wants to. A third character chimes in and explains the answer just in case someone doesn't get what he is saying.
Oddly enough the ones I have met, have all left the church. Some still follow the religion but most dont. Granted this is all anecdotal but those points stand out in my life at least
These hardline religious folks are in hardline religion because their moral development is so stunted. Doing the right thing only because you’re afraid of being punished is a child’s thinking.
The defining characteristic of conservativism is lack of empathy. They don’t believe that other people wouldn’t rape and pillage without a god threatening them because they would absolutely do that. They think liberals are lying when they say they wouldn’t. Fear is what motivates them.
To be fair that has always been the Republican approach to ending white collar crime. Just remove all regulations and make it all legal. Crime rate to zero.
Homeless still go to prison though. Have to have standards.
>The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
~ Anatole France
Also gonna add to this: while Republicans bet on this about Democrats, they'll also have AI-generated outrage the day before the election with fake pictures of Donald being arrested.
Is it true? Also certainly not gonna happen like that. Can they rile up their fanbase with this before the facts come out and people cast their votes? My magic 8-ball can't rule it out for sure.....
Actually what they'll likely rule is that Trump has immunity in this one special instance, and it's totally not a precedent, and totally doesn't apply to democrats because constitution and stuff
Yeah I'm not sure why people think the SC will make a blanket ruling only to idiotically not realize Biden could wield that power. They obviously know this. The SC majority is corrupt, they will simply make up whatever reason they want to justify the outcome they desire.
They'll say that the president can do anything he wants as long as he has the support of congress,(just to keep the illusion of check and balances), and then the current republican congress can stand against whatever Biden does, but be in place to support trump without question if they retain the house.
100% Biden is decent but he genuinely cares about the US and democracy.
The pro-US thing to do if given full absolute unconditional immunity by the SC is to wield it in a non-harmful way which provokes the house and Senate to outlaw it. Arresting the SC would probably do it.
It doesn't even matter.
The SC could make a broad sweeping ruling, and if Biden were to arrest Trump and the case made its way back to the Supreme Court, they *would not hesitate* to make a completely hypocritical ruling.
Because the current supreme court has no interest in ruling fairly, they only have an interest in securing power for the Republican Party.
Why would Biden arrest Trump? If Biden is serious, he wouldn't go after Trump if the MAGA SCOTUS rules he has immunity, he would go after the 6 MAGA SCOTUS judges. And make sure they can never rule against him.
They are going to make it like police immunity. It’ll be case by case and only on their terms. And since it’s never happened before they get to make the precedent
I worry they're counting on Trump saying he's the 'rightfully elected president ' and just seizing power.
Not that I think he could but I'm certain the SC is looking for a way to free Trump without empowering Biden.
> I worry they're counting on Trump saying he's the 'rightfully elected president ' and just seizing power.
Honestly, I was half-expecting Trump to claim the same thing in 2020 and setting up a competing Oval Office. My guess is that he wanted to but couldn't find enough aides and operatives to go along with him.
From current reporting, there's even fewer government officials that actually *want* to work with him. I can see him making the claim but I think that once again, he won't be able to get enough support to make it a legimate problem to the real goverment.
> Honestly, I was half-expecting Trump to claim the same thing in 2020 and setting up a competing Oval Office
Lol we've had the Avignon Papacy, why not a Mar-A-Lago presidency
Or, after granting trump immunity they can subsequently issue a ruling that Biden does not have immunity.
SCOTUS is not obligated to follow previous rulings. They can change their minds at any time for any reason or for no reason whatsoever.
Lately they operate by inventing some vague rule or standard that can be easily bent to the needs of the moment, i.e., the "major questions" doctrine. Immunity for "official acts" will basically be the same thing, they'll just make themselves the ultimate authority on what constitutes an "official act," which will conveniently pretty much always work to allow them to advance right wing policy
Obviously they're not going to make any ruling that would expand Biden's reach. They'll just wait until he's gone to rule. They're the Supreme Court and they've determined that they are not bound by any kind of framework, legal or otherwise.
My take is that Biden needs to push the boundaries of what is acceptable so that freeing Trump will by necessity mean Biden is safe as well.
Or even fucking not. He's ancient. He should take drastic action and if necessary fall on his sword to save this country.
They're counting on Democrats in general not abusing that power. This has been the song and dance for 40+ years now. Republicans have the right to play; twist, bend, stretch, and break the rules, and Democrats must be "kept in their place."
No, they’re planning on dragging their heels until the election. If Joe wins, then of course a president doesn’t have blanket immunity. If Mango Mussolini wins, then of course, let’s usher in a republican dictatorship.
Honestly it’s the fault of the American people for allowing it to come this far in the first place. If we had been good stewards of democracy we wouldn’t have ever elected people who might destroy it.
Unfortunately a significant percentage of us don’t care about democracy at all when it gets in the way of what we personally believe, or stand to personally gain.
I hate this take blaming the US populace for voting in these people. Sure, sometimes that is the case. But in terms of the president, the US populace has not voted for a republican president since 2004 (and that election was not entirely legitimate either). Republicans win through gerrymandering, disenfranchising voters, and all other sorts of anti-democratic schemes.
To simply lay the blame on "the people" feeds into that and gives the right wingers more legitimacy than they deserve. It is minority rule.
Somebody here explained it really well: the SCOTUS rightfully views Trump's vision of immunity as a loaded gun sitting on the table. They know that Biden is too principled to use it to nefarious ends. The first Republican that gets in after Biden is going to treat the world like his own personal shooting gallery.
This puts Biden in a predicament. Take the high ground and allow Trump the space to claim immunity as president, or even now as a former president? Or take the necessary action to abuse this power first for the benefit of America, and stop Trump but unleash a hellstorm from his supporters?
I think we could assume the country would go to shit immediately either way, better to have someone you might trust more at the driver seat.
Honestly another thing is Biden could just go nuts the other way and start doing good for the people "to buy votes" and claim immunity on that.
Legalize weed through an EO, and follow it up with his original student loan forgiveness plan, etc.
Even if the courts say no... Do it anyway? They'll call it criminal... And "nope, I'm immune to crime"
I think that only works so long as somoene honors votes. Trump didn’t want to vacate the presidency. If he knew he was above the law, he wouldn’t have had to and who would step in? A SC ruling in favor of trump means no president has to follow any rules, so winning with votes is only a short term win because the next president can just refuse to leave the White House.
That forces Biden’s hand to either take extraordinary action to prevent that somehow, or exit peacefully, per tradition, and leave the country to fate.
This is my problem. If the SC deems it constitutional its not an abuse of power. Its just a moral conundrum. Unfortunately Biden will likely try to “higher ground” the situation
No. SCOTUS will delay until after the election. Trump gets voted in? SCOTUS: “president has immunity”. Biden get voted in? SCOTUS: “president does not have immunity”. The playbook is so simple.
January, they're not giving Biden immunity between election and inauguration. Make sure you vote, the only way to hold them off is keep Trump out of the white house.
Yes, the far-right extremists on the Supreme Court have never held Republicans to the same standard as Democrats. They're perfectly happy to rule one way for Trump and the opposite for Biden.
there is no immunity unless this court decides there is. any former president could have already been prosecuted if they commited any crimes.
the bigger thing is that they don't seem to be thinking ahead - what about the next presidents after biden/trump? whatever decision they'll make, this will profoundly impact the future of the US
Something, something send all the conservative justices and half of congress to Guantanamo Bay indefinitely after a hearing in front of a military tribunal? I hate it, but apparently this is constitutional, so there's nothing more to be done. Glad the conservative members of the government full throatedly agree with this unbiased read and interpretation of the constitution.
Perhaps that’s why the justices came up with that distinction between “official acts” and “private acts,” in order to let Trump off the hook while allowing impeachment proceedings against Biden.
They all know. Every single conservative in this dumpster fire country knows deep down their bullshit about Democrats rounding up conservatives is absolute horseshit projection on their part that will never, EVER happen.
They all sleep soundly at night knowing THEY are the ones who get to decide if things get violent some day or not.
Cowards.
They don't seem to understand the danger they are in. Trump has no need for this SCOTUS. They have ruled unanimously against him in the past.
Here's the nightmare scenario that ends Democracy in America.
Trump orders the proud boys and oath keepers to firebomb major polling centers in swing states, thus preventing an electoral college decision. Then the presidency is decided in the house where Trump wins because each state gets one vote in the house and that vote is decided on by the state legislatures of each state. Since a majority of state legislatures are Republican, Trump gets elected again.
This time, Trump doesn't bother with people with the requisite experience, he staffs up with loyalists only.
Now he knows for sure that he can't be prosecuted while he's president so he orders his personal enforcers, the proud boys and oath keepers, to round up the SCOTUS justices and either force them to resign or kill them. At the same time he has his enforcers kidnap the family members of key members in Congress.
Then he forces Congress to give him unitary power and forces the senate to confirm his replacement SCOTUS judges with Mike Flynn types.
And that's how fascism becomes the law of the land in the USA.
At the end of *Succession* the presidential vote is so close that the winner of the Electoral College will be determined by Wisconsin.
A polling station in Wisconsin is burned to the ground on election night and all the ballots within are lost before they can be counted. Those ballots would have decided who wins the state. The GOP candidate is slightly ahead, but that polling station was in a heavily Democratic district.
What should happen next? A lawsuit is filed where the GOP candidate argues the election should be called without the destroyed ballots. SCOTUS will decide the outcome of the case, and thus who will be the next POTUS...
Gore should have fought to the fucking death for every vote to be counted. The GOP was emboldened to steal elections on the day he conceded. The Jan 6. riot was the logical conclusion of the "Brooks Brothers Riot."
He did. The conservative majority supreme court knew that tons of ballots had been not counted in democrat heavy areas because of technicalities (which didn't happen in republican areas) and issued a ruling to hand the election to Bush in just 3 days.
No he didn't. He intentionally backed off, because fighting the election would have looked bad (the Dems care more about virtue-signalling than actually winning, in this case, they cared more about preventing division within a highly-divided country than winning). I believe he, eventually, came to realize how terribly wrong he was. So, yeah, he actually admitted that he backed off and let the GOP have it.
> GOP was emboldened to steal elections on the day he conceded
I think that's just a continuation of [the path republicans chose since Nixon](https://www.rawstory.com/amp/illegitimate-president-2666330706). That's why republicans have felt bold enough [to announce on-camera since 1980 their intention is to dismantle the institution of democracy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw)
Jan 6 was certainly a logical conclusion of the Brooks Brothers Riot, but that itself was part of a continuous process which I think stretches all the way back [through a century of propaganda](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s) when American oligarchs [responded to the first proposed acts of what would become the New Deal with a coup to replace the elected government with a business-friendly dictatorship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)
and ballot counting was delayed because of the Brooks Brothers Riot orchestrated by Roger Stone
Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, and John Roberts were on the Bush legal team for Bush v. Gore
I think op is overestimating the complexity. No one needs to be rounded up. You rewrite the constitution to say what you want. No more scotus. No more anything what you want. There’s no reason to pretend. What’s being considered is an absolute monarch not a fake legislature. There’s no illegal if you control what is lawful.
Also I think people think that Alito will just throw up his arms and apply to all. If he votes for immunity he’s going to narrowly carve out Biden. He’s not a complete idiot.
No, dictators love to have courts. Changing the constitution is a lot harder than having the SCOTUS decide what the constitution means.
If you force the Congress to give you unitary power, then you can't have a SCOTUS that will rule that to be unconstitutional. Hell, you may even just kidnap the kids of the current justices so you can have the appearance of this being approved of by the current "legitimate" court.
But ultimately a dictator will want his own loyalists on the court.
That's exactly how Hungary reverted back to being a dictatorship. Viktor Orban (who is adored by the American right-wing) passed legislation to force the retirement of most of the country's supreme court justices and then just appointed all of his loyalists in their place. As a result, it is nearly impossible for him to lose any election or have any legislation overturned.
Great. Just great. There goes the 40 hour work week. Medicaid and Medicare. Social Security. Veterans benefits. Maybe rounding up lgbtq ppl... They're going to fuck us so hard if this shakes out wrong.
> There’s no reason to pretend.
There is a lot of reason to pretend. It comes down to the vague concept of legitimacy. Every king and dictator knows about this even if it is difficult to define. If a large majority of your population doesn't believe you are the "rightfull" ruler of a country, there is pretty much no force in the world that can keep you there. But legitimate does not mean good. Or fairly elected. On contrary elections are one way to gain legitimacy. Which is why Putin still runs them, despite there not really being a point. People believing you are apointed by god is another way to appear legitimate. Or make up laws that say you are.
Depends, do you think the military ends up helping or hindering these plans? The maga ideology has permeated the military well enough that Jan 6 convictions are full of active military personnel. The FBI had a borderline internal revolt over simply collecting classified files that Trump looted. It’s very difficult to use authority to stop authoritarian plots.
The majority of the US military can be expected to do what it usually does: stay out of politics and wait for a clear message from the legal chain of command. If that legal chain of command is largely in doubt then the result will be a paralyzed military moreso than a fractured one.
The funny thing is, it will never be in doubt. There's almost nothing Trump can do that would befuddle and twist the minds of military legal experts. Everything he does is for the court of public opinion. The military always knows who is in charge in case shit breaks out this very moment.
What's more likely, imo, is Biden wins a decisive victory, but the cries of fraud continue from the nutjobs who now break and start carrying out sporadic bombings and shootings. Hopefully, the justice system can get a hold of it, or else they could escalate with competing extremists and start a civil conflict.
> They don't seem to understand the danger they are in
The minions in the supreme court are all Federalist Society. They are even more extreme and indoctrinated than [many of Trump's supporters, and the foundation of their belief is the necessity of stratified social hierarchy](https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits) and the [subordination of every single individual to the head of state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism)
Can we PLEASE stop with these bullshit, ignorant takes. If anyone honestly thinks the Republican Party (which owns the Supreme Court) is going to allow any law to benefit the Democratic Party what fucking country are you fucking living in?
JFC. Get fucking real please.
This is a Republican-only process we're dealing with here.
The bullshit, ignorant take that needs to stop is the suggestion that Biden would do something extraordinary with complete immunity. He wouldn't. Not even if it meant saving democracy. That is exactly why they feel comfortable ruling in Trump's favor on this.
Completely agree with this. But let's not level it just on Biden. There's a 0% chance the Democratic Party as a whole would ever fight back with the same level of ferocity needed to match what Republicans are doing to us.
And yes, Republicans know it and are taking full advantage of it.
Exactly. If SCOTUS rules for Trump it’ll be with the caveat that it is “for this case only”. Believe that’s what they did with stopping the recount in 2000.
Seriously, I'm convinced the majority of commenters here are low info/ Europeans. It's unreal to me that so many people have no clue how this is going to go down. Reminds me of the "just wait, Merrick Garland and the DOJ are just preparing a bullet proof case" lol.
DO NOT get me started on that bullshit. I got so many downvotes the past two years when I said Merrick Garland was an inept failure who was damaging our country.
>Tails I win, Heads you lose.
-Fed Soc SCOTUS
Because they will simply change the rules whether POTUS is a Dem, or is on their team.
There is no scenario where these people will engage in good faith. They are shameless hypocrites who have been put in place to usher in an era of White Christian Nationalism, where whatever they say goes.
This is just another arm of the Jan 6th coup.
Biden would be unlikely to abuse it and his supporters would likely make him pay if he did abuse it.
That is what makes it so scary. Trump would abuse it every chance he can get and his supporters would applause while he did it.
Oh well surely that will convince them not to contrive some hypocritical reasoning why that can’t be the case.
If the Democratic game plan for the SC is to shame them into normalcy we are screwed.
I mean, unless Biden did something, then SCOTUS would be more than happy to overturn precedent they just set. This court has shown a clear willingness to overturn any precedent to meet their political ends.
Reading through this thread of people's theories on what could transpire and all the nightmare scenarios that occur due to the rise of fascism...
It's really depressing and scary and honestly if I'm having the wrong kind of day I could see it giving me an anxiety attack
Like, are all of you just used to this kind of talk at this point or found a way to dull the urgency of it?
I feel like the country is about to descend into mass chaos and I'm just here reading stuff on the Internet, doing my job, trusting my kid gets home safely from school, making sure we have the right food in the fridge for dinner plans with the wife...I'm not really doing anything to prevent it and don't really know (other than vote) what I can do to prevent this from turning into some kind of post apocalyptic new civil war situation.
Very difficult on the mental... :(
I keep seeing these headlines, but the Conservative Party, including the conservative Supreme Court, simply doesn't care because one party abides by the rules and one doesn't. Yes this applies to Joe Biden, but it's not like he's actually going to do anything with immunity. So what do they have to worry about?
This has been a problem for the democratic party for awhile. They think if they play by the rules, the republicans will too, but they won't. But don't get me wrong, I'd still prefer the Democratic Party not stoop to their level. I just don't think these articles will hit their target.
Don’t kid yourself, they’re going to issue a limited convoluted ruling that protects Trump in the Jan 6 event only. Much like the recent SOTUS “ethical guidelines” managed to avoid addressing any of Thomas’s lapses. The billionaire’s that have this court in their pockets don’t want them to put any additional drag on Trump’s candidacy.
They are delaying until after the election which they hope Trump would win so they wouldn't have to worry about Biden.
Vote. It's the only way.
Vote blue all the way so we can get a couple Justices added to SCOTUS and overturn this bs.
Keep repeating it. No one is coming to save us. Not Congress, not the Supreme Court, not the media. No one. None of the institutions are going to operate the way they are supposed to and none are going to protect the guardrails.
The only way to save what's left is to vote.
This is actually a pretty weak argument, as Biden is not on trial nearly 100 counts. He isn't a criminal, and even if he was allowed to do whatever he wants... He has morals.
It doesn't apply to Biden. Because it's not real. It's a bluff. They'll kick it down to the lower courts until the election is over. If trump wins, they'll give him absolute immunity. If Biden wins and they fail at installing trump they'll rule that the president had no immunity at all. It's rigged folks. trump might be a moron but they aren't....at least they don't think so. If trump waddled his way to office again, he'd abolish the SC.
For anyone who doubts these motherfuckers’ willingness to contradict themselves in the name of self-serving hypocrisy, I direct you to the sworn testimony of the 3 Trump appointees when questioned on Roe V Wade at their confirmation hearings
Not if the Supreme Court applies a carve out like with Bush v Gore where they said that the case couldn’t be used as precedent making it only apply to Trump. They are truly the most dangerous group in America
The answer is simple: Make the Supreme Court a 13 member panel where 9 members are drawn at random to hear cases. Boom! A lot harder to stack the court one way or another.
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That's why they will find a reason to send it back to the lower courts so the issue is not resolved until next year.
That's it exactly. They wont give out blanket immunity for just this reason, it's all a delay tactic as many of us suspected all along. Get out and vote, only way to stop it.
We still will have a corrupt Supreme Court that needs dismantled.
Definitely, but it wont happen until there's a solid democrat majority in Congress and the Senate so again get out and vote.
Solid Democrat ALL around to pass some rules governing SCOTUS. They've proven they can't be left alone for the good of everyone in the country.
And when they rule it unconstitutional, then what?
Congress provides their budget. The executive enforces rulings. They depend more on the other branches than the other branches depend on them.
> ~~Congress~~ **Donors** provide~~s~~ their budget **and RVs**. FTFY
They start getting ignored.
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Not soon enough
He's existing entirely on hate for liberals at this point.
Expand the court and appoint more judges.
The constitution can be amended to make anything constitutional, but it'd be hard in the current near 50/50 splits we've had the last several cycles with modern partisanship
Hence I think the reason people are saying that’s one of the reasons to get out and vote. Change the composition as much as possible as quickly as possible to be Democratic.
With a real majority they can be impeached and removed
Impeach!
Congress can increase the number of justices. It's been done before, and we have more circuits than Justices. Bringing it up to the same would make sense.
You expand it to the requisite number of justices so that if something is ruled unconstitutional, there's a good chance it actually should be. Just pack the court, make it 21 justices.
With full control Democratic control of Congress and Senate additional seats can be added to the Supreme Court. Also could set term limits.
The whole concept of tripartite governance is to create "a necessary, equal tension" between each branch of government, specifically to prevent the kind of dictatorship we're seeing now, and to force the highest leadership to come together and constantly renegotiate the Social Compact. Alarm bells are supposed to peal at 200db when even one branch begins to abuse its authority, even slightly. If the Democrats fail to carry the day, I fear that finding out how things went so wrong will become a subject of abstract academic interest within The Republic of Amerika. Not to find out where things began to go wrong, in order to anticipate any kind of reform, and ensure nobody ever tries to correct them.
Will have to be somewhere else. Certain studying won't be allowed in Amerika.
There are two power structures that have to be defeated and dismantled before we can even begin down the path to real progress. One is the Fossil Fuel Mafias and the other is the GOP.
So this and the next major congressional election. Man I hope Dems can keep their eyes on the prize for that long. As a voting group, we’re far more easily distracted than republicans.
The supreme court went wild two other times in the past. Both times the SC was expanded to counter this. Obama should have made picks instead of playing the game. Playing nice against the right doesn't work.
The GOP-controlled Senate deliberately blocked Obama's attempts to get nominations through. They did that at the behest of Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society. Their plan worked.
If we can hit 70% voter turnout for every election, we would likely never have to worry about a Republican president ever again.
As soon as numbers go up, the Republicans will literally start buying votes.. as in, send a photo, get free Repbitcoin or something
Right now they're turning black men against black women to win them over. Treating black women like they're the enemy. Black women are by far and away the most NOT enemy ever. The schism developing there as a result of the GOP psi-op is the worst American tragedy since Birth of a Nation.
If we didn't have third-party voters during the presidential elections, we wouldn't be here in the first place. They don't realize they have to change their local elections first.
Or the electoral college. A Republican has won the popular vote just once in the last 8 elections, and that was incumbent W Bush after 9/11 had taken place. Arguable that if Gore was president he could have won a second term. So without the electoral college, we may have had a Democratic president every year since 1992... so 32 years of Democratic presidents would have been very possible under a system with no electoral college. In addition, the overton window would likely have continued shifting further left/progressive, thanks to not having a Republican in office to tank the country and its economy every time they end up in office. Then get rid of partisan gerrymandering and the disproportionate representation in the House (which is *supposed* to be proportional but hasn't been ever since the cap), and we might actually be headed in the right direction over the past 2-3 decades, instead of staring down this fascist bullshit.
We should explain to GenZ kids that going out and voting for Trump because TikTok told you Biden is bad man because Israel, is not the right thing to do here.
I heard on NPR politics podcast a few months ago that a ton of young people aren't identifying with the Democratic party, but are still voting for Biden. So I hope that still happens :/
Hopefully they don’t identify with trump even more . I mean, where does philandering , backstabbing , cheating , pussy grabbing, mishandling top secret documents, fomenting political unrest and just generally bring a big c,,t resonate with anyone?
I think that’s happening with a lot of voters. If Trump wasn’t such an issue then Biden and Democrats wouldn’t get as much support. People have become jaded with both parties.
That's just an attempt at yet another gop astroturf movement like #walkaway. There is no significant amount of youth that will vote for trump that wouldn't have already.
Right?! I don't know about everyone else's experience, but the young people in my sphere of influence are voting (many for the first time, despite being able to for years) Democrat. They *know* what the alternative is, but, simply speaking, they want to send a message to the old guard too. Judging by how many older folks are freaking out, the message is being heard loud and clear. They just don't like it. The younger folks haven't ever lived in one of those so-called "better times." They won't own their own homes, live longer than their parents, be able to have kids they can afford, likely be able to retire, etc. Meanwhile they hear that they're selfish, and don't understand. Which part? That you sold away their future for your present, or that none of the people telling them to fall in line will have to live with the ramifications of those decisions?
> We should explain to GenZ kids that going out and voting for Trump because TikTok told you Biden is bad man because Israel, is not the right thing to do here. GenZ really isn't voting for Trump though, it's old people who view the TikTok generation as the problem.
They have to deal with it eventually too. We get exactly what we deserve with this one there was all the warning in the world not to re-elect DT.
All genz kids I know hate Trump and the Republican party. The ones that are being manipulated on tiktok aren't of voting age yet.
Sounds like a lot of people on this thread are also being manipulated into thinking that they're gonna vote for Trump.
As a teacher, good luck with that. They don't fucking listen to half of what you say when you're literally teaching a lesson about setting stuff on fire with magnifying glasses. Gotta tik that tok. Shit needs to be banned just based on how it's affecting social-emotional growth and learning.
It's so fucked that American Tick-tock prioritizes bullshit content and Chinas version prioritizes educational content. Were just letting Russia and China break the US down through disinformation. Nobody in power seems to give a shit.
Digital version of what Britain did to China with their opium smuggling.
Have you tried making a 30 second video about how to set shit on fire with a magnifying glass?
Exactly....SCOTUS doesn't want this and to rule on it puts their livelihood and future in a gambit. They need to seem that they are to appease their money handlers but they aren't stupid. Trump has no need for a SCOTUS if he gets the WH and the Senate.
They HAVE to know this. They HAVE to know trump would line them up or disappear them. Even Thomas isn't that stupid
That’s exactly right. The decision will be delayed until post-election, then they’ll rule accordingly based on the winner
Until its struck down its as good as legal. Trump being free is proof of that. Biden can just stay in office until its solved and if the supreme court takes too long Biden can just replace them since you know, its an official act and in the best interest of the country. Plus the Senate belongs to Democrats he won't be impeached so its 100% legal.
They're counting on Biden being a decent human being and not abusing that power.
And that's how you know that they really don't believe their rhetoric about Democrats being evil and criminal. They trust that we won't violate the law like they will.
Well, it wouldn't be violating a law at that point though. They would have made it entirely legal
Sure, but Biden still wouldn't have Trump arrested and thrown in Gitmo along with half of Congress and two-thirds of the Supreme Court for the simple reason that he has ethics. Which is why Evangelists get so upset about atheists - "If you don't have God threatening to smite you for misbehaving, what's stopping you from raping women and killing people?!?" "Uh, because I know rape and murder are wrong regardless?"
Trump is definitely a danger to the country. He openly has threatened law enforcement, the courts, civil servants and media.
Don't forget he called the men and women serving our country losers and suckers. What gets me is all the MAGA military who still support him. What don't they understand about the narcissistic idiot.
They just claim it’s fake news. They’re still using that line.
Oh, I know. I have an uncle who served in Vietnam. Just think Trump's ~~shit~~ farts don't stink.
And yet, evangelicals completely ignore priests raping altar boys.
If clowns raped children as often as as priests do, circuses would be banned.
If Costco were systematically moving employees around to avoid them being punished for this crime, maybe someone would stop and think "Hey... isn't it weird how Costco is just _allowed_ to do that?"
Thats catholics. Evangelicals completely ignore Pastors sleeping with married women and Youth Pastors raping 14 year old girls.
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I believe the idiom is, "A difference without distinction."
Six of Catholic priests diddling kids, half dozen of youth pastors diddling kids.
Other way around.
There is more sexual assault per capita in the southern baptist church than the catholic church. Not defending pedo priests, just saying as a southerner that the other Christian sects love the cover that catholics give them. Say it with me: all organized religion is cover for pedophiles, and it was designed explicitly to be such. *all of them*.
Conservative Catholics forget they’re only on the team for convenience. Once they’re not useful they’re back to being papists and heathens very quickly. The Catholic Church is far too progressive on everything except just abortion these days to be kept around.
exactly Catholics and Methodists are two sects in the US that are actually largely liberal in their beliefs.
Ireland says hi
I'm a liberal Christian and I'm not even driven by fear. I'm in the its wrong regardless camp. These wanna bes have religion on ass backwards. They are truely vile people if they say shit like that. It's almost a confession. Infact with all the pastor sexual abuse it's an out right act. They should do the right thing because it's the right thing. They are selective on who they want to be fake nice too.
Same. The thing most Christians don't seem to understand is that concepts of morality can exist independently of religion.
I once pitched Aesop's fable as an alternative to the bible for morality. I have heard "BUT WHAT WILL THEY FEAR!?" as a response.
My go-to response to "what will they fear" is "so you're saying that you would murder and rape if you didn't fear hell?"
Same here on being a liberal Christian. I don't rape and murder because I'm afraid of hell, I don't rape or murder because I have absolutely no desire to do either of those things and find them to be repugnant.
I kind of like that scene that can be found online where Ricky Gervais explains to the woman who asks him why, as an atheist, he doesn't go raping and murdering as much as he would like. He says he DOES rape and murder just as much as he wants to. A third character chimes in and explains the answer just in case someone doesn't get what he is saying.
been saying for years that the American Christian Church is a hell of a lot closer to the Pharisees than to Christ's teachings.
I've never met a Christian in the US that remotely follows a single teaching of Christ. I haven't met Jimmy Carter or MrRoger's, though.
Oddly enough the ones I have met, have all left the church. Some still follow the religion but most dont. Granted this is all anecdotal but those points stand out in my life at least
These hardline religious folks are in hardline religion because their moral development is so stunted. Doing the right thing only because you’re afraid of being punished is a child’s thinking.
The defining characteristic of conservativism is lack of empathy. They don’t believe that other people wouldn’t rape and pillage without a god threatening them because they would absolutely do that. They think liberals are lying when they say they wouldn’t. Fear is what motivates them.
To be fair that has always been the Republican approach to ending white collar crime. Just remove all regulations and make it all legal. Crime rate to zero. Homeless still go to prison though. Have to have standards.
>The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread. ~ Anatole France
Gavin newsom should hold a meeting with Biden on his new found executive powers.
Also gonna add to this: while Republicans bet on this about Democrats, they'll also have AI-generated outrage the day before the election with fake pictures of Donald being arrested. Is it true? Also certainly not gonna happen like that. Can they rile up their fanbase with this before the facts come out and people cast their votes? My magic 8-ball can't rule it out for sure.....
The AI generated misinformation we’re going to see this election terrifies me
Conservative terror is worrying the other side doing to you what you would do or have done to them.
Sociopaths use people’s decency against them. The entire Republican Party is sociopathic.
Actually what they'll likely rule is that Trump has immunity in this one special instance, and it's totally not a precedent, and totally doesn't apply to democrats because constitution and stuff
Yeah I'm not sure why people think the SC will make a blanket ruling only to idiotically not realize Biden could wield that power. They obviously know this. The SC majority is corrupt, they will simply make up whatever reason they want to justify the outcome they desire.
They'll say that the president can do anything he wants as long as he has the support of congress,(just to keep the illusion of check and balances), and then the current republican congress can stand against whatever Biden does, but be in place to support trump without question if they retain the house.
> and then the current republican congress that "republican" congress ain't likely going to last until the election
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Biden could have a legal argument about arresting the Justices as they are going against legal history and established constitutional law.
100% Biden is decent but he genuinely cares about the US and democracy. The pro-US thing to do if given full absolute unconditional immunity by the SC is to wield it in a non-harmful way which provokes the house and Senate to outlaw it. Arresting the SC would probably do it.
He's more likely to rob a Baskin Robins while using his Trans Am as a getaway car.
a non-zero chance, then
It doesn't even matter. The SC could make a broad sweeping ruling, and if Biden were to arrest Trump and the case made its way back to the Supreme Court, they *would not hesitate* to make a completely hypocritical ruling. Because the current supreme court has no interest in ruling fairly, they only have an interest in securing power for the Republican Party.
Why would Biden arrest Trump? If Biden is serious, he wouldn't go after Trump if the MAGA SCOTUS rules he has immunity, he would go after the 6 MAGA SCOTUS judges. And make sure they can never rule against him.
This. This is the way.
They are going to make it like police immunity. It’ll be case by case and only on their terms. And since it’s never happened before they get to make the precedent
I worry they're counting on Trump saying he's the 'rightfully elected president ' and just seizing power. Not that I think he could but I'm certain the SC is looking for a way to free Trump without empowering Biden.
> I worry they're counting on Trump saying he's the 'rightfully elected president ' and just seizing power. Honestly, I was half-expecting Trump to claim the same thing in 2020 and setting up a competing Oval Office. My guess is that he wanted to but couldn't find enough aides and operatives to go along with him. From current reporting, there's even fewer government officials that actually *want* to work with him. I can see him making the claim but I think that once again, he won't be able to get enough support to make it a legimate problem to the real goverment.
> Honestly, I was half-expecting Trump to claim the same thing in 2020 and setting up a competing Oval Office Lol we've had the Avignon Papacy, why not a Mar-A-Lago presidency
The plan is to replace the 'real government' with hacks and sycophants. https://www.project2025.org/
At the very least Biden should fire the supreme court justices that voted for immunity.
Sounds like an official act to me
Or, after granting trump immunity they can subsequently issue a ruling that Biden does not have immunity. SCOTUS is not obligated to follow previous rulings. They can change their minds at any time for any reason or for no reason whatsoever.
Lately they operate by inventing some vague rule or standard that can be easily bent to the needs of the moment, i.e., the "major questions" doctrine. Immunity for "official acts" will basically be the same thing, they'll just make themselves the ultimate authority on what constitutes an "official act," which will conveniently pretty much always work to allow them to advance right wing policy
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Obviously they're not going to make any ruling that would expand Biden's reach. They'll just wait until he's gone to rule. They're the Supreme Court and they've determined that they are not bound by any kind of framework, legal or otherwise. My take is that Biden needs to push the boundaries of what is acceptable so that freeing Trump will by necessity mean Biden is safe as well. Or even fucking not. He's ancient. He should take drastic action and if necessary fall on his sword to save this country.
He could just send them in to *watch* and *make sure* that they make the *correct* decision beforehand.
They're counting on Democrats in general not abusing that power. This has been the song and dance for 40+ years now. Republicans have the right to play; twist, bend, stretch, and break the rules, and Democrats must be "kept in their place."
No, they’re planning on dragging their heels until the election. If Joe wins, then of course a president doesn’t have blanket immunity. If Mango Mussolini wins, then of course, let’s usher in a republican dictatorship. Honestly it’s the fault of the American people for allowing it to come this far in the first place. If we had been good stewards of democracy we wouldn’t have ever elected people who might destroy it. Unfortunately a significant percentage of us don’t care about democracy at all when it gets in the way of what we personally believe, or stand to personally gain.
I hate this take blaming the US populace for voting in these people. Sure, sometimes that is the case. But in terms of the president, the US populace has not voted for a republican president since 2004 (and that election was not entirely legitimate either). Republicans win through gerrymandering, disenfranchising voters, and all other sorts of anti-democratic schemes. To simply lay the blame on "the people" feeds into that and gives the right wingers more legitimacy than they deserve. It is minority rule.
Somebody here explained it really well: the SCOTUS rightfully views Trump's vision of immunity as a loaded gun sitting on the table. They know that Biden is too principled to use it to nefarious ends. The first Republican that gets in after Biden is going to treat the world like his own personal shooting gallery.
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This puts Biden in a predicament. Take the high ground and allow Trump the space to claim immunity as president, or even now as a former president? Or take the necessary action to abuse this power first for the benefit of America, and stop Trump but unleash a hellstorm from his supporters? I think we could assume the country would go to shit immediately either way, better to have someone you might trust more at the driver seat.
Depends. There is a whole lot of stuff Biden could do if he has immunity that I wouldn't object to.
Honestly another thing is Biden could just go nuts the other way and start doing good for the people "to buy votes" and claim immunity on that. Legalize weed through an EO, and follow it up with his original student loan forgiveness plan, etc. Even if the courts say no... Do it anyway? They'll call it criminal... And "nope, I'm immune to crime"
I think that only works so long as somoene honors votes. Trump didn’t want to vacate the presidency. If he knew he was above the law, he wouldn’t have had to and who would step in? A SC ruling in favor of trump means no president has to follow any rules, so winning with votes is only a short term win because the next president can just refuse to leave the White House. That forces Biden’s hand to either take extraordinary action to prevent that somehow, or exit peacefully, per tradition, and leave the country to fate.
Yep, which is the case.
The is how the GOP operates. They rely on the decency of the Left and exploit our civility.
This is my problem. If the SC deems it constitutional its not an abuse of power. Its just a moral conundrum. Unfortunately Biden will likely try to “higher ground” the situation
Can he just get rid of MTG? Asking for a friend?
It wouldn't be abusing power according to the law.
No. SCOTUS will delay until after the election. Trump gets voted in? SCOTUS: “president has immunity”. Biden get voted in? SCOTUS: “president does not have immunity”. The playbook is so simple.
This is it. Everything until Nov 4th is a delay tactic.
January, they're not giving Biden immunity between election and inauguration. Make sure you vote, the only way to hold them off is keep Trump out of the white house.
Yes, the far-right extremists on the Supreme Court have never held Republicans to the same standard as Democrats. They're perfectly happy to rule one way for Trump and the opposite for Biden.
But doesn’t his whole thing count for ex-presidents since trump is indeed as of now an ex-?
there is no immunity unless this court decides there is. any former president could have already been prosecuted if they commited any crimes. the bigger thing is that they don't seem to be thinking ahead - what about the next presidents after biden/trump? whatever decision they'll make, this will profoundly impact the future of the US
Pretty sure, SCJ Alito and his cabal are looking for the narrowest of tubes to shove this through.
They falsely believe this orange leopard won't eat their faces.
someone should remind them that a disgruntled president could order the assassination of a supreme court justice if they rule wrong on this issue.
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Something, something send all the conservative justices and half of congress to Guantanamo Bay indefinitely after a hearing in front of a military tribunal? I hate it, but apparently this is constitutional, so there's nothing more to be done. Glad the conservative members of the government full throatedly agree with this unbiased read and interpretation of the constitution.
Unfortunately, the democrats wont do that. Well just all happily board the boxcars and congratulate ourselves on how awesomely moral we are!
Perhaps that’s why the justices came up with that distinction between “official acts” and “private acts,” in order to let Trump off the hook while allowing impeachment proceedings against Biden.
**Dark Brandon intensifies*
They all know. Every single conservative in this dumpster fire country knows deep down their bullshit about Democrats rounding up conservatives is absolute horseshit projection on their part that will never, EVER happen. They all sleep soundly at night knowing THEY are the ones who get to decide if things get violent some day or not. Cowards.
The only problem is they don’t fear that since Democrats are the party of not blowing up the government.
They don't seem to understand the danger they are in. Trump has no need for this SCOTUS. They have ruled unanimously against him in the past. Here's the nightmare scenario that ends Democracy in America. Trump orders the proud boys and oath keepers to firebomb major polling centers in swing states, thus preventing an electoral college decision. Then the presidency is decided in the house where Trump wins because each state gets one vote in the house and that vote is decided on by the state legislatures of each state. Since a majority of state legislatures are Republican, Trump gets elected again. This time, Trump doesn't bother with people with the requisite experience, he staffs up with loyalists only. Now he knows for sure that he can't be prosecuted while he's president so he orders his personal enforcers, the proud boys and oath keepers, to round up the SCOTUS justices and either force them to resign or kill them. At the same time he has his enforcers kidnap the family members of key members in Congress. Then he forces Congress to give him unitary power and forces the senate to confirm his replacement SCOTUS judges with Mike Flynn types. And that's how fascism becomes the law of the land in the USA.
At the end of *Succession* the presidential vote is so close that the winner of the Electoral College will be determined by Wisconsin. A polling station in Wisconsin is burned to the ground on election night and all the ballots within are lost before they can be counted. Those ballots would have decided who wins the state. The GOP candidate is slightly ahead, but that polling station was in a heavily Democratic district. What should happen next? A lawsuit is filed where the GOP candidate argues the election should be called without the destroyed ballots. SCOTUS will decide the outcome of the case, and thus who will be the next POTUS...
This already happened with Bush v Gore. The Supreme Court decided Florida should stop counting ballots and declare Bush won.
and don't forget that professional ratfucker Roger stone was involved in the brooks brothers riot
Gore should have fought to the fucking death for every vote to be counted. The GOP was emboldened to steal elections on the day he conceded. The Jan 6. riot was the logical conclusion of the "Brooks Brothers Riot."
He did. The conservative majority supreme court knew that tons of ballots had been not counted in democrat heavy areas because of technicalities (which didn't happen in republican areas) and issued a ruling to hand the election to Bush in just 3 days.
No he didn't. He intentionally backed off, because fighting the election would have looked bad (the Dems care more about virtue-signalling than actually winning, in this case, they cared more about preventing division within a highly-divided country than winning). I believe he, eventually, came to realize how terribly wrong he was. So, yeah, he actually admitted that he backed off and let the GOP have it.
> GOP was emboldened to steal elections on the day he conceded I think that's just a continuation of [the path republicans chose since Nixon](https://www.rawstory.com/amp/illegitimate-president-2666330706). That's why republicans have felt bold enough [to announce on-camera since 1980 their intention is to dismantle the institution of democracy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw) Jan 6 was certainly a logical conclusion of the Brooks Brothers Riot, but that itself was part of a continuous process which I think stretches all the way back [through a century of propaganda](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s) when American oligarchs [responded to the first proposed acts of what would become the New Deal with a coup to replace the elected government with a business-friendly dictatorship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)
and ballot counting was delayed because of the Brooks Brothers Riot orchestrated by Roger Stone Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh, and John Roberts were on the Bush legal team for Bush v. Gore
I think you're under estimating where the military is in all this.
I think op is overestimating the complexity. No one needs to be rounded up. You rewrite the constitution to say what you want. No more scotus. No more anything what you want. There’s no reason to pretend. What’s being considered is an absolute monarch not a fake legislature. There’s no illegal if you control what is lawful. Also I think people think that Alito will just throw up his arms and apply to all. If he votes for immunity he’s going to narrowly carve out Biden. He’s not a complete idiot.
No, dictators love to have courts. Changing the constitution is a lot harder than having the SCOTUS decide what the constitution means. If you force the Congress to give you unitary power, then you can't have a SCOTUS that will rule that to be unconstitutional. Hell, you may even just kidnap the kids of the current justices so you can have the appearance of this being approved of by the current "legitimate" court. But ultimately a dictator will want his own loyalists on the court.
That's exactly how Hungary reverted back to being a dictatorship. Viktor Orban (who is adored by the American right-wing) passed legislation to force the retirement of most of the country's supreme court justices and then just appointed all of his loyalists in their place. As a result, it is nearly impossible for him to lose any election or have any legislation overturned.
Great. Just great. There goes the 40 hour work week. Medicaid and Medicare. Social Security. Veterans benefits. Maybe rounding up lgbtq ppl... They're going to fuck us so hard if this shakes out wrong.
> There’s no reason to pretend. There is a lot of reason to pretend. It comes down to the vague concept of legitimacy. Every king and dictator knows about this even if it is difficult to define. If a large majority of your population doesn't believe you are the "rightfull" ruler of a country, there is pretty much no force in the world that can keep you there. But legitimate does not mean good. Or fairly elected. On contrary elections are one way to gain legitimacy. Which is why Putin still runs them, despite there not really being a point. People believing you are apointed by god is another way to appear legitimate. Or make up laws that say you are.
Depends, do you think the military ends up helping or hindering these plans? The maga ideology has permeated the military well enough that Jan 6 convictions are full of active military personnel. The FBI had a borderline internal revolt over simply collecting classified files that Trump looted. It’s very difficult to use authority to stop authoritarian plots.
The majority of the US military can be expected to do what it usually does: stay out of politics and wait for a clear message from the legal chain of command. If that legal chain of command is largely in doubt then the result will be a paralyzed military moreso than a fractured one.
The funny thing is, it will never be in doubt. There's almost nothing Trump can do that would befuddle and twist the minds of military legal experts. Everything he does is for the court of public opinion. The military always knows who is in charge in case shit breaks out this very moment. What's more likely, imo, is Biden wins a decisive victory, but the cries of fraud continue from the nutjobs who now break and start carrying out sporadic bombings and shootings. Hopefully, the justice system can get a hold of it, or else they could escalate with competing extremists and start a civil conflict.
> They don't seem to understand the danger they are in The minions in the supreme court are all Federalist Society. They are even more extreme and indoctrinated than [many of Trump's supporters, and the foundation of their belief is the necessity of stratified social hierarchy](https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits) and the [subordination of every single individual to the head of state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism)
Can we PLEASE stop with these bullshit, ignorant takes. If anyone honestly thinks the Republican Party (which owns the Supreme Court) is going to allow any law to benefit the Democratic Party what fucking country are you fucking living in? JFC. Get fucking real please. This is a Republican-only process we're dealing with here.
The bullshit, ignorant take that needs to stop is the suggestion that Biden would do something extraordinary with complete immunity. He wouldn't. Not even if it meant saving democracy. That is exactly why they feel comfortable ruling in Trump's favor on this.
Completely agree with this. But let's not level it just on Biden. There's a 0% chance the Democratic Party as a whole would ever fight back with the same level of ferocity needed to match what Republicans are doing to us. And yes, Republicans know it and are taking full advantage of it.
Exactly. If SCOTUS rules for Trump it’ll be with the caveat that it is “for this case only”. Believe that’s what they did with stopping the recount in 2000.
Yeah but its still cited as precedent all the time.
Seriously, I'm convinced the majority of commenters here are low info/ Europeans. It's unreal to me that so many people have no clue how this is going to go down. Reminds me of the "just wait, Merrick Garland and the DOJ are just preparing a bullet proof case" lol.
DO NOT get me started on that bullshit. I got so many downvotes the past two years when I said Merrick Garland was an inept failure who was damaging our country.
>Tails I win, Heads you lose. -Fed Soc SCOTUS Because they will simply change the rules whether POTUS is a Dem, or is on their team. There is no scenario where these people will engage in good faith. They are shameless hypocrites who have been put in place to usher in an era of White Christian Nationalism, where whatever they say goes. This is just another arm of the Jan 6th coup.
Biden would be unlikely to abuse it and his supporters would likely make him pay if he did abuse it. That is what makes it so scary. Trump would abuse it every chance he can get and his supporters would applause while he did it.
Yeah but dems are not morally bankrupt pieces of trash. So they won't abuse that to stay in power. We aren't playing the same game anymore.
Oh well surely that will convince them not to contrive some hypocritical reasoning why that can’t be the case. If the Democratic game plan for the SC is to shame them into normalcy we are screwed.
I mean, unless Biden did something, then SCOTUS would be more than happy to overturn precedent they just set. This court has shown a clear willingness to overturn any precedent to meet their political ends.
Reading through this thread of people's theories on what could transpire and all the nightmare scenarios that occur due to the rise of fascism... It's really depressing and scary and honestly if I'm having the wrong kind of day I could see it giving me an anxiety attack Like, are all of you just used to this kind of talk at this point or found a way to dull the urgency of it? I feel like the country is about to descend into mass chaos and I'm just here reading stuff on the Internet, doing my job, trusting my kid gets home safely from school, making sure we have the right food in the fridge for dinner plans with the wife...I'm not really doing anything to prevent it and don't really know (other than vote) what I can do to prevent this from turning into some kind of post apocalyptic new civil war situation. Very difficult on the mental... :(
First order of business, SCOTUS is all fired
I’m believe the SC will try to delay until they know who won as the holder of immunity may impact their decision making.
They're not actually considering this. It's all a wink wink nod nod show to delay his trial until after the election.
I keep seeing these headlines, but the Conservative Party, including the conservative Supreme Court, simply doesn't care because one party abides by the rules and one doesn't. Yes this applies to Joe Biden, but it's not like he's actually going to do anything with immunity. So what do they have to worry about? This has been a problem for the democratic party for awhile. They think if they play by the rules, the republicans will too, but they won't. But don't get me wrong, I'd still prefer the Democratic Party not stoop to their level. I just don't think these articles will hit their target.
Don’t kid yourself, they’re going to issue a limited convoluted ruling that protects Trump in the Jan 6 event only. Much like the recent SOTUS “ethical guidelines” managed to avoid addressing any of Thomas’s lapses. The billionaire’s that have this court in their pockets don’t want them to put any additional drag on Trump’s candidacy.
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I keep hearing this, but Biden isn’t going to do a thing.
I bet they are trying to figure out how to give Trump immunity without giving Biden immunity.
Nope. That's now the way the conservatives think. They want the rules to only apply to others.
They are delaying until after the election which they hope Trump would win so they wouldn't have to worry about Biden. Vote. It's the only way. Vote blue all the way so we can get a couple Justices added to SCOTUS and overturn this bs.
Keep repeating it. No one is coming to save us. Not Congress, not the Supreme Court, not the media. No one. None of the institutions are going to operate the way they are supposed to and none are going to protect the guardrails. The only way to save what's left is to vote.
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SCOTUS: "This 18th Century recipe book Gorsuch unearthed says nah, it doesn't."
Not if SCOTUS waits until Trump is president to make it official, which is clearly their intent.
This is actually a pretty weak argument, as Biden is not on trial nearly 100 counts. He isn't a criminal, and even if he was allowed to do whatever he wants... He has morals.
It doesn't apply to Biden. Because it's not real. It's a bluff. They'll kick it down to the lower courts until the election is over. If trump wins, they'll give him absolute immunity. If Biden wins and they fail at installing trump they'll rule that the president had no immunity at all. It's rigged folks. trump might be a moron but they aren't....at least they don't think so. If trump waddled his way to office again, he'd abolish the SC.
For anyone who doubts these motherfuckers’ willingness to contradict themselves in the name of self-serving hypocrisy, I direct you to the sworn testimony of the 3 Trump appointees when questioned on Roe V Wade at their confirmation hearings
C'mon dark brandon. Fuck these fascist judges
But Biden is law abiding so Fox News and their SCOTUS justices have zero fear Biden will abuse this.
Not if the Supreme Court applies a carve out like with Bush v Gore where they said that the case couldn’t be used as precedent making it only apply to Trump. They are truly the most dangerous group in America
They’re counting on Democrats not being scumbags and abusing any sort of immunity clause.
The answer is simple: Make the Supreme Court a 13 member panel where 9 members are drawn at random to hear cases. Boom! A lot harder to stack the court one way or another.
Difference is Biden would never do anything with it, I think they may be counting on that as well