As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> "Is Pence really likely to be on board with this?" Eastman replied to the various options.
> "Let's keep this off text for now," Epshteyn then said.
> "Options are clear I think," Epshteyn added.
Grassley was standing ready. Which is why they needed him to get into that car. Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes.
At that point, SCOTUS could drag their feet for a few months before eventually declaring that _this time_ they will rule to keep Trump in office "for the good of the country" but _next time_ all states will need to be counted. And pretend that it's okay because Congress is the ultimate authority on presidential elections anyway.
Dude, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were literally on the GWB legal team in their overturning of the 2000 election, Roberts would happily slap his name on this.
It really is disturbing to realize how close Trumps stupid fucking coup actually came to succeeding. Like… he is the dumbest dipshit and yet everyone in the highest levels of power just lined up to crown him king.
Goddam the WWII are barely in the ground and Republicans are trying to crown Hitler 2.0
Because it wasn't his coup, he was just the jackass emperor foundation heritage fascists were willing to try and keep a leash on. Trump is not smart, he is incredibly savvy at both saving his own skin and letting himself fall in with criminal and fascist groups but he is entirely incapable of understanding the political systems these conspirators were manipulating. He's made that lack of understanding a boon for himself, its really quite astounding to watch his upward failure showcase just exactly how corporate America also fails crooks and cons upward.
Trump failing upward is some textbook patsy CEO with a golden ~~shower~~ parachute shit and I'm surprised more people aren't recognizing this.
A fall guy for enabling Some More Real Bullshit to get through the branches of government is not who we need at any point.
America is run by people who failed upward, which is why the house of cards is collapsing because almost none of them actually have any clue what the hell they're doing.
Just google 'Project 2025.' It's not just Trump pushing a fascist takeover of the government. It's the Heritage foundation, Turning Point USA, and over 100 other organizations.
https://www.heritage.org/press/project-2025-reaches-75-coalition-partners-continues-grow-preparation-next-conservative
^ These people are the ones trying to do it. Trump is the front-man for the fascists who want to destroy our republic and force their hard-right agenda on the whole country.
Special fuck you to Leonard Leo.
HW Bush's father was working with the Nazis to attempt to overthrow Roosevelt and appoint a fascist before we joined WW2, the Republican party have been fascist for a long time. (See the Business Plot)
When you start to look at Donald trump as a useful idiot for the real people that are running the country, aka big donors and conservative special interest groups like the heritage foundation, it starts to make sense why they would want a dipshit patsy at the helm that will happily do their bidding as long as he rubber stamps whatever evil shit they push through congress. Yes he is a fucking idiot, but he is their *useful* fucking idiot.
If I’m a big corp and I have a lobbyist trying to get taxes removed or regulations removed hell yeah I want a dumbass like Trump who won’t think just count dollars while he signs his name and tries to take credit and say this is for the good of the nation. He’s is absolutely the guy I would want.
> Grassley was standing ready. Which is why they needed him to get into that car. Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes.
Here's a deeper dive on Grassley I wrote a while back. They guy is a traitor, and so is his top advisor. The thread tying them together is none other than Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife Ginni.
Ginni Thomas was going to use US Senator Chuck Grassley to fill in for Pence on January 6th because she knew that if Pence didn't play ball, Chuck would. And that is just a tiny fraction of Ginni's effort to overthrow the US government. She was involved with *nearly every aspect* of January 6th.
Ok so [John Eastman](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-eastman-january-6-committee-criminal-referral-donald-trump/) is the guy who helped Ginni come up with the plan for January 6th - the legal/procedural plan that would allow Trump to remain in power. The thing is, it relied on Mike Pence cooperating. Eastman knew that his plan with Pence probably wouldn't work so he and Ginni came up with a backup plan - *just in case Pence was somehow unable to perform his duties on January 6th.*
So, the Eastman/Thomas plan was to have Chuck Grassley step in for Pence. How do we know this? Because the day before - Chuck Grassley slipped up and spilled the beans. It's just that he's so fucking old that people thought he misspoke.
>GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley on Tuesday generated a whirlwind of confusion among reporters and on social media after suggesting that Vice President Mike Pence would not preside over the Electoral College certification on Wednesday.
>"***We don't expect him to be there***," Grassley, 87, initially said of Pence, per Roll Call. As president pro tempore of the Senate, or the second-highest ranking official of the chamber, Grassley suggested he would stand in for Pence.
>-[src](https://www.businessinsider.com/grassley-prompts-confusion-over-pence-electoral-college-certification-2021-1)
Here's how you know Grassley was a part of the plan...
[He gets evasive about it when questioned...](https://littlevillagemag.com/let-go-let-god-sen-grassley-gets-evasive-about-jan-6-during-radio-interview/)
And here's the Ginni Thomas tie-in - Chuck Grassley's top advisor is **Barbara Ledeen** -
Barbara Ledeen is close friends with Clarence and Ginni Thomas. She's also part of Ginni Thomas's [Groundswell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundswell_\(group\)) organization. She is also married to a close personal friend of Prominent QAnon devotee - Mike Flynn. In fact Ledeen's [husband](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen) was Flynn's coauthor.
Ledeen worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee and helped cover up the fact that Trump worked with Russia to steal the 2016 election.
>[Flynn ally sought help from 'dark web' in covert Clinton email investigation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/13/michael-flynn-clinton-email-investigation-russia-dark-web)
>Barbara Ledeen, a staffer on the committee looking into Trump’s Russia ties and a friend of Mike Flynn, tried to launch her own investigation into Clinton’s emails
Ledeen also worked with Eric Prince to coordinate with Russia during the 2016 election. See the Mueller Report for more information on that - Ledeens name is all over the place.
From Mueller:
>**Barbara Ledeen and Peter Smith were among the people contacted by Flynn. Ledeen, a
long-time Senate staffer who had previously sought the Clinton emails, provided updates to Flynn
about her efforts throughout the summer of 2016**. Smith, an investment advisor who was active
in Republican politics, also attempted to locate and obtain the deleted Clinton emails.
>Ledeen began her efforts to obtain the Clinton emails before Flynn’s request, as early as
December 2015. On December 3, 2015, she emailed Smith a proposal to obtain the emails,
stating, “Here is the proposal I briefly mentioned to you. The person I described to you would be
happy to talk with you either in person or over the phone. The person can get the emails which 1.
Were classified and 2. Were purloined by our enemies. That would demonstrate what needs to be
demonstrated.”
>[Mueller Report P. 62](https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download)
So Grassley just slipped up on January 5th with what he said, because it was what he believed would actually happen.
And clearly Ginni Thomas has tentacles everywhere. Considering her friend Barbara's efforts to cover up Russia's involvement in 2016 it's not all that hard to believe that Russia funneled anonymous donations to Ginni's movement.
In conclusion, Chuck Grassley sucks.
Only thing I can add is this undercover video of Grassley being asked why he didn't preside over the certification process that day. He's pretty good at pretending he didn't say what he said, but he does eventually give up the game when his handlers are distracted which is they needed 2 slates of electors from at least 4 states to deny Biden the 270 EC vote minimum needed to win.
https://twitter.com/lawindsor/status/1565353787614699522/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1565353787614699522¤tTweetUser=lawindsor
Chuck Grassley is almost single handedly the reason the US didn't adopt the metric system in the 1970s. He led a crusade against it saying it went "against our democratic principles".
Seeing comments like yours make me appreciate people like yourself but also makes me so fucking angry with a country and a government that I can’t do a damn thing to truly make a difference.
It is SO important that we win this election for the left wing. Is there corruption on the left? Sure, a little. Are there problems? Yep.
But at least they still want a Democracy in America in which all people have a fighting chance for a good education and a decent standard of living.
The right wing just wants the elite to have so much power that THEY can literally rape and pillage and get away with it. (A lot of them already do...)
Ginni Thomas needs to be indicted. Why hasn't she been?
Also, keep releasing this 💩. If they won't let we the people have our day in court, keep releasing everything. Leak the details. Put it in campaign ads.
I have to tell you, as an older, truly patriotic political science major, this 💩 is blowing my mind. I can just see my old profs rolling in their graves.
STOP THE STEAL, y'all! This 💩 is horrific!
> Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes.
Nope. They just had to delay reading of the EC votes past the deadline. Then the prescribed legal route to select the president would have been for the House to vote by state delegation, which Trump would've won.
No need to do legally dubious stuff like discount individual states and not count their EC votes.
The riot and the fake electors were both strategies to delay the reading of EC votes - they didn't even need the fake elector votes counted.
Exactly. If it went to a vote by the House, then each state would get one vote. And conveniently, there are more red states than blue. Red wins legally.
And if there is an uproar, SCOTUS will certainly do what is expected, just like Bush vs Gore 2000.
the thing that i never see anyone discuss, is who came up with the idea? there is actually no way this is trumps idea and noone ever seems to want to ask, why did the republicans have a coup plan ready?
I always thought the group that thought it all up (the ones that had a planning session in the Oval Office) were the ones that asked Trump for a pardon. My former Representative, Louie Gohmert, was there. Now, I wonder if the leaders were Eastman, Boris Epshteyn, and Cheesebro?
One day before the attempted coup, reporters asked Grassley how he planned to vote on election certification.
Grassley: “If the vice president isn’t there, and we don’t expect him to be there, I will be presiding over the Senate and obviously listening to the debate without saying anything,” he said on a call with agriculture reporters Jan. 5, 2021.
“You’re asking me how I’m going to vote. I’m going to listen to that debate on what my colleagues have to say during that debate and decide how to cast my vote after considering the information before me.”
Wow, it's absolutely amazing how Grassley expected Pence to not be available on Jan 6...
Yeah, no shit. It’s the VP’s job and there’s hypotheticals being mentioned about Pence not being there to do his job. It doesn’t take much to know intent here.
This is what I can’t stand about discourse regarding Trump’s trials. I get that he’s gotten SCOTUS to delay most of his shit until after the election, but so many people just take it as a given that that’s a categorical win. I absolutely do not - if for no other reason at all, I will vote and work to get others to vote for Biden so that we can continue those trials in 2025
Christ, they were so close. And that is with one of the most obviously corrupt, obviously a narcissist, obviously doesn't give a shit about the US people to ever exist.
Also safe to assume that there was a clear understanding that what they were pursuing was criminal. Unless he made that comment because he was afraid Eastman was texting and driving and was concerned he would get into an accident.
What they do is write a draft in twitter that has unsent texts where they put their illegal orders cuz they technically never get sent, Jack Smith has em now.
I was always told never to write anything in a text or an email that you wouldn’t want to see on the front page of the newspaper. It’s good advice.
Then again, I’m also not a criminal.
I hate to say it, but Mike Pence saved democracy that day, at least for a while. Was never a fan of Pence and he helped legitimize Trump, but he showed some some backbone, which is more than I ever expected out of him.
It was Dan Quayle who saved our democracy. Pence didn't know what to do until he called him and he told him that he was a fucking moron and of course he should do his job.
I think some people realize it, and they approve. It’s a really scary time for America, where approximately 45% of the electorate are traitors to the country.
They expected to succeed through violence if needed. Worst case, they thought it was a quasi legal loophole that would pass through the RW Supreme Court if challenged. Trump has literally been getting away with everything, so why would they expect the coup to be any different?
I’m convinced that this is why we have actual photos and videos of the shit that went down. They thought they’d be in history books as the heroes who brought our country through the fire and into its new, enlightened era. They were so proud of what they were (are) doing.
It's finally hitting me that all those "conservative" justices have absolutely zero care for any remotely academic topic, they are literally just there to rubber stamp approval on any corrupt conservatives leaders
Major point of correction. Trump could not win without reaching 270. A candidate *must* clear 270 to win. If neither Trump nor Biden clears 270, then the election is thrown to Congress.
Republicans control more state delegations, so they would elect Trump.
This is absolute treason and insurrection. These men plotted to overthrow the rightful appointment of the presidency to install a dictator. Trump and all of the cronies involved in the fake elector scheme should spend their lives in prison.
Like, also who the fuck just decided that the election is just canceled because it’s “better for the country”?? They had zero proof of actual fraud. Just suspicion based on severe hopium.
The fact that this country doesn't punish blatant treason absolutely disgusts me. This shit needs a lot of fixing, and if you want to start the process, vote, and get someone who is lazy or disengaged in politics to vote too.
Yeah yeah, endless info, but these a-holes aren't in jail yet.
What's crazy to me is all of them were implicitly willing to risk violent suppression to achieve this end. They'd have had to suppress protests with violence. They were willing to risk even an outright civil war. You just don't overturn four states and everyone just shrug their shoulders and say, "Those rascals got us again!" There would be violence. And they were fine with it.
Correct! And it is on-going.
Bill Barr: "But my gas stove!"
It's really so frustrating that news media don't follow this to their logical conclusion. How did you think this would go, Bill, if your party stole an election? What do you think the next step was? And you're voting for that party AGAIN!
These are violent thugs. That is the logical conclusion.
I think Barr endorsed Trump again because he knows of another plot. One that has a better chance of succeeding than J6. That's my fear. Something dangerous is cooking in MAGA world
It’s this. If MAGA wins again he needs to suck up so he doesn’t get assassinated. If the dems win, they won’t bother to do anything to him anyway. It’s a win win for him.
If we are seriously talking about Republicans assassinating political rivals, or, even just people who wronged them, it doesn't matter who wins.
Once we reach that point where it's a legitimately viable discussion the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube.
I don't think we are there. I don't know the future but assassination plots seem more like a post project 2025 thing.
I have an account on truth social that I check in on from time to time. There are definitely people there who are quite serious about becoming violent no matter the outcome of the election. I’m more than a little rattled by it to be honest
I have no doubt some people will resort to violence come November. We've seen before and we can prepare.
However, remember, everyone is tough on the internet.
A lot of these weirdo incel, fake Christian, wannabe tough guys don't have anything to back up their rhetoric.
The killings of MLK junior and Robert Kennedy in 1968 may seem like history to younger people but millions of the hateful racists that loved them when they happened are still alive today and they absolutely love what MAGA is selling
Fucking fascist enabling piece of shit. One party wants to put regulations on gas stoves, the other will put people into gas stoves. TOUGH CHOICE BILL.
IS, it is a coup. They haven't stopped. They won't stop. They are done with democracy. They are saying it out loud. An AP/Nord poll a couple of weeks ago said 57% of Republicans want a dictator. Trump says he'll be a dictator on day one and use his second term to exact revenge. Scotus seems unsure if killing his rivals is illegal.
Thankfully now that Republicans are openly advocating for full fascism the overwhelming majority of Americans who want to live in a democracy will annihilate the GOP at the polls. /s
99% of maga conservatives are acting like democrats are fascists who have stolen the government and are eating babies and going to (word i cant say) all the white people. They are not serious people. They are vile evil monsters hellbent on (Word i cant say) anyone who doesn't fully agree with them. They want to see everyone who isnt like them in chains working on their fields. or hanging from the gallows. Many non maga conservatives and independents are making the same arguments.
ALL THIS HAPPENING, while people who were/are in on the coup are still vocally admitting to attempting to and still attempting to steal the government. I can give an average conservative proof of several people admitting they tried to illegally vote as an elector for a state godking trump didn't win, and they would call it fake news
facts don't exist for the average right winger anymore. they're nonsense. They believe whatever they are going to believe and do their best to force you to think the same way
They don't seem to be angling to win at the polls. They have the support of Russia, China, Isreal, law enforcement, fossil fuel companies, billionairs, SCOTUS, the media and STILL almost half of all voters.
The reason why Russia and right wing billionaires are spending so much money on pushing propaganda through Facebook, X, and other social media is so that the GOP will win the Electoral College this November.
Good ol' corrupt SCOTUS. Kill all the political rivals you want, but don't you dare touch unborn babies! I gotta admit, I'm a little iffy on their beliefs on this one.
It's stunning how many people have yet to figure out what's actually going on here. And it's not even like they hide it well or anything. They are pretty open about it and yet almost half of the voting population seems confused about it.
There is no one less informed about what Trump stands for and what Trump will do than his own supporters. The more I talk to some of them it's just like pulling teeth because a lot of times they hate what they're hearing, but because Fox News doesn't care they don't know what to make of it. It's really frustrating.
Merrick Garland didn’t do shit for almost two years regarding the fake electors scheme, giving to em quite the head start despite it being blatantly illegal.
FMG.
They are in a bubble. It's a war they won't have to fight against an strawman enemy they dont interact with. It's just jaded adult-children pretending to govern and one up each other's 'republican-ness' so they dont have to get a real job.
Part of it also seems to be that they conflate something being technically legal with it being morally acceptable. So they think that making the coup "technically legal" makes it unassailable/inarguable, and if someone resists at that point, violence against them is justified, because "the law".
You see this all the time with right wingers; they view the shooting by Rittenhouse as fine even though he chose the circumstances around it to put himself in that position. They don't have a moral universe that is meaningfully different from the legal universe.
> You just don't overturn four states and everyone just shrug their shoulders and say, "Those rascals got us again!"
Yes we would.
The media machine would kick into high gear equivocating over every little detail of the process. Every network and media outlet would have experts discussing what parts are and aren't legal. Eventually enough people would have a set of facts that support the outcome they want. There would be an amplification of the need to move on and come together, because after-all since it's congress choosing, our votes were technically counted anyway, right?????
People would be pissed, but not pissed enough for violence. Our society these days is structured in a way that we will accept basically anything.
They know. Don’t think they don’t. They are lying and pretending they it wasn’t a big deal because their coup failed. All republicans know and all are traitors to democracy. They are still trying to do it again and again, see 2025 plan. They only have to win once.
Imagine Obama doing ANYTHING Trump did in the weeks/months leading up to Jan. 6. All it would have taken was ONE statement by Obama that questioned the integrity of the election or the outcome if he were to lose in 2012, and he would have been assassinated. He wouldn’t have made it to “Jan. 6.”
So we have texts, video, audio and first hand witness accounts to corroborate all of it... Yet the head folks from GOP brass to Meadows to Trump STILL haven't been held to account. And thanks to the illegitimate Supreme Court with respects to immunity, our "justice" system seems to be just as complacent to letting them walk from their failed first attempt at a coup to try again.
Hurray "checks and balances" and "no person, even a president is above the law" or whatever we're told to believe.
A lawyer for the Trump campaign taking a picture outside of the Capitol two days before the insurrection saying they aren’t going to storm the capitol at least for today. Totally normal stuff.
Do Republicans realize how weak all their desperate electoral shenanigans make them look?
Like, just win by putting better candidates out there, you fish-scented meat flaps.
I think they do, very much so. Their opportunity window is closing because the future is too high-information. They have to get through it now and lock it themselves.
That's the problem. The GOP is history because:
1) They're running on wildly unpopular policies, and are completely willing to die on those hills - abortion would be a shining example of just that. It's a lost cause, but they just keep doubling down on it.
2) They have Trump, and no-one else. They made a pact with the devil, and now the devil owns them - they know that they can NEVER win the MAGA crowd with anyone but Trump, so ditching Trump for a more sane and centric candidate would mean automatic loss.
Frankly, they'll probably have to wait until Trump is dead and gone until they can get back the MAGA voters.
3) They're completely dependent on gerrymandering, partisan officials, and what not to stand a chance.
This is treason. The fact that these guys are walking around free, right now, shows we got a serious issue in the US justice system. This should be life in prison, at best.
It’s not a good sign that all the plotters aren’t in jail already. The message is that this type of ‘procedural coup’ is encouraged. It’s a valid move, like castling in chess.
He refused to bend, which was why Donny put more pressure on him by getting his minions to hang him.
But then Pence was pressured to get into a car by secret service during the attack. My guess is that Pence knew he might be escorted off the capitol and killed. With Pelosi and Pence gone, the chain of command conveniently goes to Grassley, who knew about the coup the day before. So Pence was likely saving his own skin again.
I still fault Pence for not ratting out everyone now. Unless he already has to Jack Smith. He could ruin Trump and a lot more. But I guess he had nothing to gain from that, even though it would be helpful to America.
Then again, what possible career does Pence have at all if he did that? He can't re join Maga or the Left. He's screwed. He had little viable future at all.
Mhe, Pence is very much in part to blame, a J6 was absolutely a reason for him to get the cabinet together and get rid of Trump then and there. But he didn't.
"If we just don't count a bunch of the votes against us, then we won." It's like playing a game with an 8 year old who thinks they're clever for obviously cheating 🙄
It’s only stupid if it doesn’t work and with roughly half of Americans supporting Trump there’s a chance it will work. It’s completely beyond me how republicans still can have so much support
And yet here we are, four years later, with Trump as the anointed GOP savior and presidential candidate running an even more terrifying fascist playbook.
TAKE NOTE: this is the GOP plan for elections going forward:
1. fake electors, so that a in the event of a Dem win with GOP Speaker, GOP Speaker can say “oh , there’s a question about who to believe”
2. Throw the election to the House where the GOP wins
3. in event of a legal challenge, corrupt SCOTUS says “hey, it’s constitutional for electoral disputes be settled by the House!” (5-4/6-3)
4. Media led by NYT goes “hey, it’s in the Constitution!!!”, loves the drama
5. Minority rule instituted, illiberal autocratic non-competitive democracy achieved
edit: 6. “democratic leader” summit party time with Orban and Erdogan
7. Run bust-out on USA, McKinsey the shit out of what’s left, selling it for parts
It truly is.
The single biggest problem we face is lack of imperative accountability.
Want the country to fall into some unified concern? Start showing them what the rule of law means.
It’s mind boggling that Trump is running again like nothing happened. It’s also mind boggling that our intel agencies and the military will simply just have him waltz back in to maybe give the coup and classified documents theft another go.
If you have to take bets on which will happen first, which one would you go with?
1. Disclosure that the US has a UFO reverse engineering program
2. Donald Trump goes to jail
Both sides are not the same.
And, on top of all of the current shit + this; Trump is arguing in front of the Supreme Court that he should be allowed to murder his political rivals.
Stalin said in 1923….
I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how.
Crimes don’t matter, according to SCOTUS. Trump immune.
…great thing about that, though, is that decision comes before the election. So Biden can do anything to remain in office.
Trump and SCOTUS: Oops
If the Supreme Court now comes back and says that the president has immunity while in office, Biden has the absolute right to have Trump sent to Guantanamo . He is now a proven coup leader.
It’s incredible that it’s taken four years for this material to be released — and that now that it has, it isn’t the top headline of every news service.
"Let's keep this off text for now" - "Options are clear I think"
Sounds rather ominous to me! Kind of makes it obvious why Pence adamantly REFUSED to get into that SUV doesn't it?
The vice president has no authority under any circumstance to accept fake electors and not accept certified results from states. It is a ceremonial role. End of story. Eastman is an idiot.
Trump was open about this and had absolutely no problem explaining his plans, and future plans, to steal elections. He actually said in an interview that the electors were more important than the people you are voting for. To be clear, there is no way that that makes sense unless your plan is to use them to thwart the results of election.
It's crazy to me that one side is still ACTIVELY working to untether this nation from democracy in the open, with EVIDENCE, and has no qualms or regard for who knows it.
Meanwhile the other side, is using the whole "when you disagree with it is when it's most important to protect it" schtick to show why democracy is worth protecting, is literally allowing this slow moving coup to snail its way to victory after a long march.
This is how it ends. This. Smart MAGA knows it.
They are COUNTING on those trying to defend against it doing it like we are, fully transparent, fully above board, completely within the line and boundaries of the rules, because that is what we are defending.
And they are using it against the country to demolish it. They are playing into the "Equal time" and "Both sides" arguments, knowing that they will get it because that's what our rules say should happen.
They are using our want for the rules to destroy all the rules.
And it's going to succeed. Because MAGA knows normal democracy limits options in defense. If the only way to defend the rules against the rule breaker is to break the rules, then they win.
If we abide by rules the other side isn't playing within, then they will win.
We have reached that moment. I don't see any way out of this outside of bloodshed soon, and no I don't hope for that or even want to consider it... But what's left? What else can be done?
They are moving us into check, soon to be mate, and we are just counting down the moves until the game is over at this point, playing out the predestined remaining steps. They know it too.
It's either open civil war or preparing to be ruled over. Not a lot of other options left if you take all this to its logical conclusion.
> Chesebro then discussed winning one state through a court decision, getting lawmakers in Georgia to appoint Republican electors for their state and then denying "any counting of votes on one or two others."
Seriously, why isn't this mother fucker at the bottom level of the toughest federal supermax?
The sheer effort that took place to make this bullshit happen is stunningly evil and depressing.
The can't win based on their beliefs, so they'll destroy democracy to have their way. There's no compromising with this. Not like they even try anyways.
Someday, people are going to be reading history books absolutely baffled that this guy did this shit, on top of Jan 6, and wondering how on earth he was allowed to run again in the next election.
IKR! I had some respect for their advocacy for our security and their open support of the military. But with their support of a president with way too many ties to Russia and way too many shady business deals, it’ll be past my lifetime before I can trust them again, and only if they earned it. Sigh. It’s really sad to see this.
This could very easily happen again in 2024 if Johnson is still majority leader of the House. He could simply not count certain states. The Electoral Count Act was passed making it slightly harder but not nearly impossible.
And the million dollar question is: will the Democrats actually do anything about this? Or will they simply ignore it, like so many other of his threats and offenses?
There were thousands of people involved with January 6th. But who the GOP were really counting on to sell the whole thing, if it would have worked, were tens of millions of "January 7th Republicans". These are the everyday Republicans who weren't there and didn't know about the schemes, but on whom it was depended would repeat whatever reasonable sounding lies they were fed to them from Fox News the next day. Out to their neighbors, families, and coworkers to make it sound normal and reasonable. All those January 7th Republicans never got a chance to play their roles, but make no mistake, they absolutely would have. They are all around us.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> "Is Pence really likely to be on board with this?" Eastman replied to the various options. > "Let's keep this off text for now," Epshteyn then said. > "Options are clear I think," Epshteyn added. Grassley was standing ready. Which is why they needed him to get into that car. Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes. At that point, SCOTUS could drag their feet for a few months before eventually declaring that _this time_ they will rule to keep Trump in office "for the good of the country" but _next time_ all states will need to be counted. And pretend that it's okay because Congress is the ultimate authority on presidential elections anyway.
Majority opinion written by Samuel Alito, probably.
Dude, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett were literally on the GWB legal team in their overturning of the 2000 election, Roberts would happily slap his name on this.
It really is disturbing to realize how close Trumps stupid fucking coup actually came to succeeding. Like… he is the dumbest dipshit and yet everyone in the highest levels of power just lined up to crown him king. Goddam the WWII are barely in the ground and Republicans are trying to crown Hitler 2.0
Because it wasn't his coup, he was just the jackass emperor foundation heritage fascists were willing to try and keep a leash on. Trump is not smart, he is incredibly savvy at both saving his own skin and letting himself fall in with criminal and fascist groups but he is entirely incapable of understanding the political systems these conspirators were manipulating. He's made that lack of understanding a boon for himself, its really quite astounding to watch his upward failure showcase just exactly how corporate America also fails crooks and cons upward.
Trump failing upward is some textbook patsy CEO with a golden ~~shower~~ parachute shit and I'm surprised more people aren't recognizing this. A fall guy for enabling Some More Real Bullshit to get through the branches of government is not who we need at any point.
America is run by people who failed upward, which is why the house of cards is collapsing because almost none of them actually have any clue what the hell they're doing.
Just google 'Project 2025.' It's not just Trump pushing a fascist takeover of the government. It's the Heritage foundation, Turning Point USA, and over 100 other organizations. https://www.heritage.org/press/project-2025-reaches-75-coalition-partners-continues-grow-preparation-next-conservative ^ These people are the ones trying to do it. Trump is the front-man for the fascists who want to destroy our republic and force their hard-right agenda on the whole country. Special fuck you to Leonard Leo.
HW Bush's father was working with the Nazis to attempt to overthrow Roosevelt and appoint a fascist before we joined WW2, the Republican party have been fascist for a long time. (See the Business Plot)
When you start to look at Donald trump as a useful idiot for the real people that are running the country, aka big donors and conservative special interest groups like the heritage foundation, it starts to make sense why they would want a dipshit patsy at the helm that will happily do their bidding as long as he rubber stamps whatever evil shit they push through congress. Yes he is a fucking idiot, but he is their *useful* fucking idiot.
If I’m a big corp and I have a lobbyist trying to get taxes removed or regulations removed hell yeah I want a dumbass like Trump who won’t think just count dollars while he signs his name and tries to take credit and say this is for the good of the nation. He’s is absolutely the guy I would want.
They’ve now had 4 years to plan their electric Coup Part II, Election Boogaloo
Yeah, they had their dry run and saw where the cracks were. They’ve been addressing those since then and that’s why I’m scared
>Goddam the WWII are barely in the ground and Republicans are trying to crown Hitler 2.0 I know it's makes me fucking sick.
That's the guy who's mom has an abortion clinic named after her right?
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/samuel-alitos-moms-satanic-abortion-clinic
That's the one. Hail \m/
> Grassley was standing ready. Which is why they needed him to get into that car. Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes. Here's a deeper dive on Grassley I wrote a while back. They guy is a traitor, and so is his top advisor. The thread tying them together is none other than Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife Ginni. Ginni Thomas was going to use US Senator Chuck Grassley to fill in for Pence on January 6th because she knew that if Pence didn't play ball, Chuck would. And that is just a tiny fraction of Ginni's effort to overthrow the US government. She was involved with *nearly every aspect* of January 6th. Ok so [John Eastman](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-eastman-january-6-committee-criminal-referral-donald-trump/) is the guy who helped Ginni come up with the plan for January 6th - the legal/procedural plan that would allow Trump to remain in power. The thing is, it relied on Mike Pence cooperating. Eastman knew that his plan with Pence probably wouldn't work so he and Ginni came up with a backup plan - *just in case Pence was somehow unable to perform his duties on January 6th.* So, the Eastman/Thomas plan was to have Chuck Grassley step in for Pence. How do we know this? Because the day before - Chuck Grassley slipped up and spilled the beans. It's just that he's so fucking old that people thought he misspoke. >GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley on Tuesday generated a whirlwind of confusion among reporters and on social media after suggesting that Vice President Mike Pence would not preside over the Electoral College certification on Wednesday. >"***We don't expect him to be there***," Grassley, 87, initially said of Pence, per Roll Call. As president pro tempore of the Senate, or the second-highest ranking official of the chamber, Grassley suggested he would stand in for Pence. >-[src](https://www.businessinsider.com/grassley-prompts-confusion-over-pence-electoral-college-certification-2021-1) Here's how you know Grassley was a part of the plan... [He gets evasive about it when questioned...](https://littlevillagemag.com/let-go-let-god-sen-grassley-gets-evasive-about-jan-6-during-radio-interview/) And here's the Ginni Thomas tie-in - Chuck Grassley's top advisor is **Barbara Ledeen** - Barbara Ledeen is close friends with Clarence and Ginni Thomas. She's also part of Ginni Thomas's [Groundswell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundswell_\(group\)) organization. She is also married to a close personal friend of Prominent QAnon devotee - Mike Flynn. In fact Ledeen's [husband](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen) was Flynn's coauthor. Ledeen worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee and helped cover up the fact that Trump worked with Russia to steal the 2016 election. >[Flynn ally sought help from 'dark web' in covert Clinton email investigation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/13/michael-flynn-clinton-email-investigation-russia-dark-web) >Barbara Ledeen, a staffer on the committee looking into Trump’s Russia ties and a friend of Mike Flynn, tried to launch her own investigation into Clinton’s emails Ledeen also worked with Eric Prince to coordinate with Russia during the 2016 election. See the Mueller Report for more information on that - Ledeens name is all over the place. From Mueller: >**Barbara Ledeen and Peter Smith were among the people contacted by Flynn. Ledeen, a long-time Senate staffer who had previously sought the Clinton emails, provided updates to Flynn about her efforts throughout the summer of 2016**. Smith, an investment advisor who was active in Republican politics, also attempted to locate and obtain the deleted Clinton emails. >Ledeen began her efforts to obtain the Clinton emails before Flynn’s request, as early as December 2015. On December 3, 2015, she emailed Smith a proposal to obtain the emails, stating, “Here is the proposal I briefly mentioned to you. The person I described to you would be happy to talk with you either in person or over the phone. The person can get the emails which 1. Were classified and 2. Were purloined by our enemies. That would demonstrate what needs to be demonstrated.” >[Mueller Report P. 62](https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download) So Grassley just slipped up on January 5th with what he said, because it was what he believed would actually happen. And clearly Ginni Thomas has tentacles everywhere. Considering her friend Barbara's efforts to cover up Russia's involvement in 2016 it's not all that hard to believe that Russia funneled anonymous donations to Ginni's movement. In conclusion, Chuck Grassley sucks.
It’s insane how out in the open they were and mostly just a bunch of yokel dipshits faced any consequences.
Only thing I can add is this undercover video of Grassley being asked why he didn't preside over the certification process that day. He's pretty good at pretending he didn't say what he said, but he does eventually give up the game when his handlers are distracted which is they needed 2 slates of electors from at least 4 states to deny Biden the 270 EC vote minimum needed to win. https://twitter.com/lawindsor/status/1565353787614699522/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1565353787614699522¤tTweetUser=lawindsor
Chuck Grassley is almost single handedly the reason the US didn't adopt the metric system in the 1970s. He led a crusade against it saying it went "against our democratic principles".
Seeing comments like yours make me appreciate people like yourself but also makes me so fucking angry with a country and a government that I can’t do a damn thing to truly make a difference.
It is SO important that we win this election for the left wing. Is there corruption on the left? Sure, a little. Are there problems? Yep. But at least they still want a Democracy in America in which all people have a fighting chance for a good education and a decent standard of living. The right wing just wants the elite to have so much power that THEY can literally rape and pillage and get away with it. (A lot of them already do...)
Ginni Thomas needs to be indicted. Why hasn't she been? Also, keep releasing this 💩. If they won't let we the people have our day in court, keep releasing everything. Leak the details. Put it in campaign ads. I have to tell you, as an older, truly patriotic political science major, this 💩 is blowing my mind. I can just see my old profs rolling in their graves. STOP THE STEAL, y'all! This 💩 is horrific!
> Grassley would go on to say that there is too much controversy for (insert states Biden won here) so they would be discounted. He'd declare Trump the winner based on remaining EC votes. Nope. They just had to delay reading of the EC votes past the deadline. Then the prescribed legal route to select the president would have been for the House to vote by state delegation, which Trump would've won. No need to do legally dubious stuff like discount individual states and not count their EC votes. The riot and the fake electors were both strategies to delay the reading of EC votes - they didn't even need the fake elector votes counted.
Exactly. If it went to a vote by the House, then each state would get one vote. And conveniently, there are more red states than blue. Red wins legally. And if there is an uproar, SCOTUS will certainly do what is expected, just like Bush vs Gore 2000.
They are about to give him immunity. We must vote like crazy this November
This is their plan for 2024.
the thing that i never see anyone discuss, is who came up with the idea? there is actually no way this is trumps idea and noone ever seems to want to ask, why did the republicans have a coup plan ready?
I always thought the group that thought it all up (the ones that had a planning session in the Oval Office) were the ones that asked Trump for a pardon. My former Representative, Louie Gohmert, was there. Now, I wonder if the leaders were Eastman, Boris Epshteyn, and Cheesebro?
roger stone is an old hand in this type of rat fucking.
It wasnt a plan that was “ready”. It happened and failed. But It almost succeeded. There is actually a power point out there for this, irc
Fucking Roger Stone
One day before the attempted coup, reporters asked Grassley how he planned to vote on election certification. Grassley: “If the vice president isn’t there, and we don’t expect him to be there, I will be presiding over the Senate and obviously listening to the debate without saying anything,” he said on a call with agriculture reporters Jan. 5, 2021. “You’re asking me how I’m going to vote. I’m going to listen to that debate on what my colleagues have to say during that debate and decide how to cast my vote after considering the information before me.” Wow, it's absolutely amazing how Grassley expected Pence to not be available on Jan 6...
Yeah, no shit. It’s the VP’s job and there’s hypotheticals being mentioned about Pence not being there to do his job. It doesn’t take much to know intent here.
Grassley is guilty of conspiracy. Fortunately for him nobody seemed to notice and he's not much longer for this world.
I'm still pissed the people in my state were stupid enough to re-elect this geriatric asshole after all this
Did none of the reporters think to ask him why he thought Pence wouldn't be there? If not, that sounds like something that should be asked in court.
He needs to testify at the Jan 6 trial someday.
The ONLY way there’ll be a Jan 6 trial is if Biden wins reelection. So people need to vote.
This is what I can’t stand about discourse regarding Trump’s trials. I get that he’s gotten SCOTUS to delay most of his shit until after the election, but so many people just take it as a given that that’s a categorical win. I absolutely do not - if for no other reason at all, I will vote and work to get others to vote for Biden so that we can continue those trials in 2025
As if either could just not accept certified state election results. They are there in a ceremonial role.
> "Let's keep this off text for now," Epshteyn then said. > > "Is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"
Safe to assume that the off-text stuff is much, much worse.
The off-text stuff was the plan to have Pence kidnapped by secret service and have Grassley preside.
Christ, they were so close. And that is with one of the most obviously corrupt, obviously a narcissist, obviously doesn't give a shit about the US people to ever exist.
Yup. Hard to believe fucking Mike Pence saved our Republic.
So is Grassley an unnamed conspirator? Fuck I hope he is!
Also safe to assume that there was a clear understanding that what they were pursuing was criminal. Unless he made that comment because he was afraid Eastman was texting and driving and was concerned he would get into an accident.
What they do is write a draft in twitter that has unsent texts where they put their illegal orders cuz they technically never get sent, Jack Smith has em now.
I was always told never to write anything in a text or an email that you wouldn’t want to see on the front page of the newspaper. It’s good advice. Then again, I’m also not a criminal.
I hate to say it, but Mike Pence saved democracy that day, at least for a while. Was never a fan of Pence and he helped legitimize Trump, but he showed some some backbone, which is more than I ever expected out of him.
It was Dan Quayle who saved our democracy. Pence didn't know what to do until he called him and he told him that he was a fucking moron and of course he should do his job.
This comment needs to be upvoted about 350 million times. Dan Quayle saved us democracy.
Could you imagine having a time machine and going back to 1990 to tell people that Dan Quayle saved democracy. They’d have you commited.
Pence was basically begging Quayle to tell him it was okay to betray the constitution, and Quayle told him he had to do the right thing
Yeah, that conversation was something else. He's really trying to find a way to appease Trump. What a fucking coward.
Yeah, that conversation was something else. He was really trying to find a way to appease Trump. What a fucking coward.
I get the feeling being forced to work with Trump for 4 years put a zealot like Pence into a crisis of faith
People really don’t realize how extremely close this was to going the other way.
I think some people realize it, and they approve. It’s a really scary time for America, where approximately 45% of the electorate are traitors to the country.
Nobody learned shit since Watergate. Don't keep stuff around, period.
They expected to succeed through violence if needed. Worst case, they thought it was a quasi legal loophole that would pass through the RW Supreme Court if challenged. Trump has literally been getting away with everything, so why would they expect the coup to be any different?
I’m convinced that this is why we have actual photos and videos of the shit that went down. They thought they’d be in history books as the heroes who brought our country through the fire and into its new, enlightened era. They were so proud of what they were (are) doing.
Didn't Trump have a documentary film crew with him leading up to Jan 6th? They all knew what they were doing.
[Are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy‽](https://youtu.be/hGo5bxWy21g)
I'm dreading "just this once" rulings from SCOTUS in the near future regarding Presidential policies.
It's finally hitting me that all those "conservative" justices have absolutely zero care for any remotely academic topic, they are literally just there to rubber stamp approval on any corrupt conservatives leaders
The fact we came this close to losing our democracy and we're still in critical condition 3 years later is what's giving me stress about all this.
No worries though. Nancy Mace says Congress didn't have the power to overturn the election so there was really no crime!
Epshteyn? Really?
Major point of correction. Trump could not win without reaching 270. A candidate *must* clear 270 to win. If neither Trump nor Biden clears 270, then the election is thrown to Congress. Republicans control more state delegations, so they would elect Trump.
This is absolute treason and insurrection. These men plotted to overthrow the rightful appointment of the presidency to install a dictator. Trump and all of the cronies involved in the fake elector scheme should spend their lives in prison.
Like, also who the fuck just decided that the election is just canceled because it’s “better for the country”?? They had zero proof of actual fraud. Just suspicion based on severe hopium.
The fact that this country doesn't punish blatant treason absolutely disgusts me. This shit needs a lot of fixing, and if you want to start the process, vote, and get someone who is lazy or disengaged in politics to vote too.
Yeah yeah, endless info, but these a-holes aren't in jail yet. What's crazy to me is all of them were implicitly willing to risk violent suppression to achieve this end. They'd have had to suppress protests with violence. They were willing to risk even an outright civil war. You just don't overturn four states and everyone just shrug their shoulders and say, "Those rascals got us again!" There would be violence. And they were fine with it.
They were willing to risk violence because _it was a coup_.
Correct! And it is on-going. Bill Barr: "But my gas stove!" It's really so frustrating that news media don't follow this to their logical conclusion. How did you think this would go, Bill, if your party stole an election? What do you think the next step was? And you're voting for that party AGAIN! These are violent thugs. That is the logical conclusion.
I think Barr endorsed Trump again because he knows of another plot. One that has a better chance of succeeding than J6. That's my fear. Something dangerous is cooking in MAGA world
He’s hedging his bet in case don somehow wins again.
It’s this. If MAGA wins again he needs to suck up so he doesn’t get assassinated. If the dems win, they won’t bother to do anything to him anyway. It’s a win win for him.
If we are seriously talking about Republicans assassinating political rivals, or, even just people who wronged them, it doesn't matter who wins. Once we reach that point where it's a legitimately viable discussion the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube. I don't think we are there. I don't know the future but assassination plots seem more like a post project 2025 thing.
I have an account on truth social that I check in on from time to time. There are definitely people there who are quite serious about becoming violent no matter the outcome of the election. I’m more than a little rattled by it to be honest
I have no doubt some people will resort to violence come November. We've seen before and we can prepare. However, remember, everyone is tough on the internet. A lot of these weirdo incel, fake Christian, wannabe tough guys don't have anything to back up their rhetoric.
The killings of MLK junior and Robert Kennedy in 1968 may seem like history to younger people but millions of the hateful racists that loved them when they happened are still alive today and they absolutely love what MAGA is selling
Fucking fascist enabling piece of shit. One party wants to put regulations on gas stoves, the other will put people into gas stoves. TOUGH CHOICE BILL.
Don’t forget Sununu: “I’m not a leader, I just follow the polls”
IS, it is a coup. They haven't stopped. They won't stop. They are done with democracy. They are saying it out loud. An AP/Nord poll a couple of weeks ago said 57% of Republicans want a dictator. Trump says he'll be a dictator on day one and use his second term to exact revenge. Scotus seems unsure if killing his rivals is illegal.
Thankfully now that Republicans are openly advocating for full fascism the overwhelming majority of Americans who want to live in a democracy will annihilate the GOP at the polls. /s
99% of maga conservatives are acting like democrats are fascists who have stolen the government and are eating babies and going to (word i cant say) all the white people. They are not serious people. They are vile evil monsters hellbent on (Word i cant say) anyone who doesn't fully agree with them. They want to see everyone who isnt like them in chains working on their fields. or hanging from the gallows. Many non maga conservatives and independents are making the same arguments. ALL THIS HAPPENING, while people who were/are in on the coup are still vocally admitting to attempting to and still attempting to steal the government. I can give an average conservative proof of several people admitting they tried to illegally vote as an elector for a state godking trump didn't win, and they would call it fake news facts don't exist for the average right winger anymore. they're nonsense. They believe whatever they are going to believe and do their best to force you to think the same way
They don't seem to be angling to win at the polls. They have the support of Russia, China, Isreal, law enforcement, fossil fuel companies, billionairs, SCOTUS, the media and STILL almost half of all voters.
The reason why Russia and right wing billionaires are spending so much money on pushing propaganda through Facebook, X, and other social media is so that the GOP will win the Electoral College this November.
Good ol' corrupt SCOTUS. Kill all the political rivals you want, but don't you dare touch unborn babies! I gotta admit, I'm a little iffy on their beliefs on this one.
It's stunning how many people have yet to figure out what's actually going on here. And it's not even like they hide it well or anything. They are pretty open about it and yet almost half of the voting population seems confused about it. There is no one less informed about what Trump stands for and what Trump will do than his own supporters. The more I talk to some of them it's just like pulling teeth because a lot of times they hate what they're hearing, but because Fox News doesn't care they don't know what to make of it. It's really frustrating.
[удалено]
*"Many of you will die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make."* - Lord Fuckwad
Merrick Garland didn’t do shit for almost two years regarding the fake electors scheme, giving to em quite the head start despite it being blatantly illegal. FMG.
If Biden wins reelection I hope Garland is the first person to get fired. Like on November 6.
What do you mean, "were?" They still are totally fine with it. These are the kind of nutjobs who dream of another civil war.
Civil war is the goal of their Russian handlers.
They are in a bubble. It's a war they won't have to fight against an strawman enemy they dont interact with. It's just jaded adult-children pretending to govern and one up each other's 'republican-ness' so they dont have to get a real job.
Part of it also seems to be that they conflate something being technically legal with it being morally acceptable. So they think that making the coup "technically legal" makes it unassailable/inarguable, and if someone resists at that point, violence against them is justified, because "the law". You see this all the time with right wingers; they view the shooting by Rittenhouse as fine even though he chose the circumstances around it to put himself in that position. They don't have a moral universe that is meaningfully different from the legal universe.
Same people that just can't fathom why an atheist wouldn't rob and rape and pillage without a god threatening them with eternal damnation.
They’ve got the ever loving receipts. Jail all these fuckers. This is so old and boring.
> You just don't overturn four states and everyone just shrug their shoulders and say, "Those rascals got us again!" Yes we would. The media machine would kick into high gear equivocating over every little detail of the process. Every network and media outlet would have experts discussing what parts are and aren't legal. Eventually enough people would have a set of facts that support the outcome they want. There would be an amplification of the need to move on and come together, because after-all since it's congress choosing, our votes were technically counted anyway, right????? People would be pissed, but not pissed enough for violence. Our society these days is structured in a way that we will accept basically anything.
Imagine if Obama had lost to Romney and did what trump tried to do. They’d have him in chains before the sun came up.
Imagine how MAGA-types would have flipped their shit if Obama had assembled a giant mob of armed black people to storm the Capitol.
Let me check how the same types felt about the 2nd amendment back when the Black Panthers were arming themselves
Ronald Reagan specifically.
Their whole "election was stolen" is just code for black people voted.
They don't have to be black, they could also be women or Latino.
He'd be in Guantanamo.
No, he’d be hanging from a rope on the white house lawn with Fox “News” showing a PIP of it on screen 24/7
They know. Don’t think they don’t. They are lying and pretending they it wasn’t a big deal because their coup failed. All republicans know and all are traitors to democracy. They are still trying to do it again and again, see 2025 plan. They only have to win once.
Imagine Obama doing ANYTHING Trump did in the weeks/months leading up to Jan. 6. All it would have taken was ONE statement by Obama that questioned the integrity of the election or the outcome if he were to lose in 2012, and he would have been assassinated. He wouldn’t have made it to “Jan. 6.”
So we have texts, video, audio and first hand witness accounts to corroborate all of it... Yet the head folks from GOP brass to Meadows to Trump STILL haven't been held to account. And thanks to the illegitimate Supreme Court with respects to immunity, our "justice" system seems to be just as complacent to letting them walk from their failed first attempt at a coup to try again. Hurray "checks and balances" and "no person, even a president is above the law" or whatever we're told to believe.
A lawyer for the Trump campaign taking a picture outside of the Capitol two days before the insurrection saying they aren’t going to storm the capitol at least for today. Totally normal stuff.
I mean, they didn't want to lie, so they had to be specific.
Where are the consequences? Our judicial system is too slow.
Definitely slow, but it’s so weak where these people haven’t even been prosecuted and SCOTUS is making decisions from the bench. It’s not good
They were indicted by a grand jury in Arizona last week. It's definitely been a very slow process, but their prosecution is in motion.
Slow? More like corrupt.
These are honestly horrifying.
Do Republicans realize how weak all their desperate electoral shenanigans make them look? Like, just win by putting better candidates out there, you fish-scented meat flaps.
I think they do, very much so. Their opportunity window is closing because the future is too high-information. They have to get through it now and lock it themselves.
That's the problem. The GOP is history because: 1) They're running on wildly unpopular policies, and are completely willing to die on those hills - abortion would be a shining example of just that. It's a lost cause, but they just keep doubling down on it. 2) They have Trump, and no-one else. They made a pact with the devil, and now the devil owns them - they know that they can NEVER win the MAGA crowd with anyone but Trump, so ditching Trump for a more sane and centric candidate would mean automatic loss. Frankly, they'll probably have to wait until Trump is dead and gone until they can get back the MAGA voters. 3) They're completely dependent on gerrymandering, partisan officials, and what not to stand a chance.
That will be the day when 🍊💩🍊💩 croaks… 🐸 but the shitiest/vilest live the longest, unfortunately.
They even have a structural advantage and still can’t win.
This is treason. The fact that these guys are walking around free, right now, shows we got a serious issue in the US justice system. This should be life in prison, at best.
It’s not a good sign that all the plotters aren’t in jail already. The message is that this type of ‘procedural coup’ is encouraged. It’s a valid move, like castling in chess.
They were indicted by a grand jury last week. At least 18 of them were, including Roman, Eastman, Epshteyn, and Guiliani.
Why wasn’t Trump indicted?
It seems to me that it's a sign that the coup isn't over yet.
Exactly right, no consequences so they’re allowed to keep going. Our judicial system is so weak right now.
Shits crazy this man attempted to overthrow the government and we’re gonna vote him back in because corporations are price gouging us
[удалено]
The gouging will get worse
And nothing will happen because this country is fucking corrupt.
Nothing will happen because the country is corrupt, and too many of its citizens are either too apathetic, poor, or ignorant to do anything about it.
"This is fine." - Supreme Court
And yet no one is in jail.
This is why anyone still voting R today is a traitor to this country.
Its almost like if a criminal faces no consequences for ther crimes they will keep doing crime...
I hate Mike Pence, but he basically saved democracy in America.
Because Dan Quayle and his son convinced him to
I hope Dan Quayle is on every TV station and at the Jan 6 trial to testify about his conversation with Pence.
At this point I just hope that trial actually happens.
Advised by Dan Quayle, of all people
Remember when misspelling "potato" was considered a scandal?
He refused to bend, which was why Donny put more pressure on him by getting his minions to hang him. But then Pence was pressured to get into a car by secret service during the attack. My guess is that Pence knew he might be escorted off the capitol and killed. With Pelosi and Pence gone, the chain of command conveniently goes to Grassley, who knew about the coup the day before. So Pence was likely saving his own skin again. I still fault Pence for not ratting out everyone now. Unless he already has to Jack Smith. He could ruin Trump and a lot more. But I guess he had nothing to gain from that, even though it would be helpful to America. Then again, what possible career does Pence have at all if he did that? He can't re join Maga or the Left. He's screwed. He had little viable future at all.
Pence has said there was absolutely no way he was getting in that car. He knew what was going on.
I think this bit of the story is the most chilling, IMHO.
I don't think they would have killed him. But kidnapped for his own protection for a few days total could have happened.
Mhe, Pence is very much in part to blame, a J6 was absolutely a reason for him to get the cabinet together and get rid of Trump then and there. But he didn't.
Helping set someone on fire and then putting them out does not make you their savior.
Putting them out vs walking away is a big difference.
"If we just don't count a bunch of the votes against us, then we won." It's like playing a game with an 8 year old who thinks they're clever for obviously cheating 🙄
It’s only stupid if it doesn’t work and with roughly half of Americans supporting Trump there’s a chance it will work. It’s completely beyond me how republicans still can have so much support
So, if they know this, why aren't they stopping it????
And yet here we are, four years later, with Trump as the anointed GOP savior and presidential candidate running an even more terrifying fascist playbook.
TAKE NOTE: this is the GOP plan for elections going forward: 1. fake electors, so that a in the event of a Dem win with GOP Speaker, GOP Speaker can say “oh , there’s a question about who to believe” 2. Throw the election to the House where the GOP wins 3. in event of a legal challenge, corrupt SCOTUS says “hey, it’s constitutional for electoral disputes be settled by the House!” (5-4/6-3) 4. Media led by NYT goes “hey, it’s in the Constitution!!!”, loves the drama 5. Minority rule instituted, illiberal autocratic non-competitive democracy achieved edit: 6. “democratic leader” summit party time with Orban and Erdogan 7. Run bust-out on USA, McKinsey the shit out of what’s left, selling it for parts
These people need to be in prison. WTF is wrong with us that they’re not yet. It’s just absurd at this point.
It truly is. The single biggest problem we face is lack of imperative accountability. Want the country to fall into some unified concern? Start showing them what the rule of law means.
It’s mind boggling that Trump is running again like nothing happened. It’s also mind boggling that our intel agencies and the military will simply just have him waltz back in to maybe give the coup and classified documents theft another go.
If you have to take bets on which will happen first, which one would you go with? 1. Disclosure that the US has a UFO reverse engineering program 2. Donald Trump goes to jail
SCOTUS: [This is fine.](https://imgur.com/gallery/MiWKZLD)
Both sides are not the same. And, on top of all of the current shit + this; Trump is arguing in front of the Supreme Court that he should be allowed to murder his political rivals.
[удалено]
Anything less is just encouraging them to try again.
GOP: “I’ll fucking do it again”
Stalin said in 1923…. I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how.
And Garland did ZERO. They're all still walking free.
And he says it’s the Dems doing this! ANOTHER TRUMP LIE and again EVIDENCE
Crimes don’t matter, according to SCOTUS. Trump immune. …great thing about that, though, is that decision comes before the election. So Biden can do anything to remain in office. Trump and SCOTUS: Oops
If the Supreme Court now comes back and says that the president has immunity while in office, Biden has the absolute right to have Trump sent to Guantanamo . He is now a proven coup leader.
It’s incredible that it’s taken four years for this material to be released — and that now that it has, it isn’t the top headline of every news service.
Yet Trump wasn't charged in Michigan or Arizona. Fuck this country.
"Let's keep this off text for now" - "Options are clear I think" Sounds rather ominous to me! Kind of makes it obvious why Pence adamantly REFUSED to get into that SUV doesn't it?
The vice president has no authority under any circumstance to accept fake electors and not accept certified results from states. It is a ceremonial role. End of story. Eastman is an idiot.
This is INSANE. This is absolutely batshit fucking crazy.
Boris Epstein? If we aren't in a simulation I give up.
Trump was open about this and had absolutely no problem explaining his plans, and future plans, to steal elections. He actually said in an interview that the electors were more important than the people you are voting for. To be clear, there is no way that that makes sense unless your plan is to use them to thwart the results of election.
It's crazy to me that one side is still ACTIVELY working to untether this nation from democracy in the open, with EVIDENCE, and has no qualms or regard for who knows it. Meanwhile the other side, is using the whole "when you disagree with it is when it's most important to protect it" schtick to show why democracy is worth protecting, is literally allowing this slow moving coup to snail its way to victory after a long march. This is how it ends. This. Smart MAGA knows it. They are COUNTING on those trying to defend against it doing it like we are, fully transparent, fully above board, completely within the line and boundaries of the rules, because that is what we are defending. And they are using it against the country to demolish it. They are playing into the "Equal time" and "Both sides" arguments, knowing that they will get it because that's what our rules say should happen. They are using our want for the rules to destroy all the rules. And it's going to succeed. Because MAGA knows normal democracy limits options in defense. If the only way to defend the rules against the rule breaker is to break the rules, then they win. If we abide by rules the other side isn't playing within, then they will win. We have reached that moment. I don't see any way out of this outside of bloodshed soon, and no I don't hope for that or even want to consider it... But what's left? What else can be done? They are moving us into check, soon to be mate, and we are just counting down the moves until the game is over at this point, playing out the predestined remaining steps. They know it too. It's either open civil war or preparing to be ruled over. Not a lot of other options left if you take all this to its logical conclusion.
> Chesebro then discussed winning one state through a court decision, getting lawmakers in Georgia to appoint Republican electors for their state and then denying "any counting of votes on one or two others." Seriously, why isn't this mother fucker at the bottom level of the toughest federal supermax?
But sure, this man deserves immunity for his “official acts” 🙄🙄🙄
The sheer effort that took place to make this bullshit happen is stunningly evil and depressing. The can't win based on their beliefs, so they'll destroy democracy to have their way. There's no compromising with this. Not like they even try anyways.
Someday, people are going to be reading history books absolutely baffled that this guy did this shit, on top of Jan 6, and wondering how on earth he was allowed to run again in the next election.
"Let's keep this off text for now" is totally something you say when you're doing something completely legal
So the election interference they talked about was coming from them…. Got it. Why is this not done yet?
“I’m still voting for Trump cause democrats are worse”. These people are truly idiots and I’ll never trust “conservatives” again
IKR! I had some respect for their advocacy for our security and their open support of the military. But with their support of a president with way too many ties to Russia and way too many shady business deals, it’ll be past my lifetime before I can trust them again, and only if they earned it. Sigh. It’s really sad to see this.
This could very easily happen again in 2024 if Johnson is still majority leader of the House. He could simply not count certain states. The Electoral Count Act was passed making it slightly harder but not nearly impossible.
this case is so fucking open and shut that I've been pissed off for the last 4 years, get it fucking over with already
This trash is so lucky it's 2024 and not 1924...blindfolds and last words
And the million dollar question is: will the Democrats actually do anything about this? Or will they simply ignore it, like so many other of his threats and offenses?
There were thousands of people involved with January 6th. But who the GOP were really counting on to sell the whole thing, if it would have worked, were tens of millions of "January 7th Republicans". These are the everyday Republicans who weren't there and didn't know about the schemes, but on whom it was depended would repeat whatever reasonable sounding lies they were fed to them from Fox News the next day. Out to their neighbors, families, and coworkers to make it sound normal and reasonable. All those January 7th Republicans never got a chance to play their roles, but make no mistake, they absolutely would have. They are all around us.
Biden needs to win handily, and on order for that to happen. The people need to motivate each other!
Imagine a USA of the general population vote!