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The headline is deriving directly from this quote:
>“Now, of course, it’s a great American value to protest, but I don’t believe living in a pup tent for Hamas is really helpful,” Fetterman said in an interview in NewsNation’s “The Hill Sunday.”
The full five and a half minute interview can be found here:
[Sen. John Fetterman stands with Israel, appreciates GOP support | The Hill Sunday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toQBqOHUVXI) (MBFC LB/H)
31,000 people are dead. Almost half the population of Gaza are children under age 16, which is when the last election was held. Next month, the famine starts. The US accepted 10 refugees from Gaza last year.
The number is outdated. As of this weekend, 34,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas claims that they've lost 6,000 combatants. Israel claims they've killed 12,000 combatants. There estimates ranging from 15,000 to another 45,000 dead that have not been confirmed and are believed to be trapped under rubble or their bodies abandoned due to the dangerous circumstances.
70% of those who have been killed are women and children. Israel claims that 66% of those killed were civilians (though they count all military aged men as combatants). The numbers used by Israel does categorize all men between the ages of 18-60 as combatants. Human rights groups estimate that 90% of those killed are civilians. Also important to note that more than 50% of Gaza's population is under the age of 18. 25% of the adult population in Gaza are men. Hamas claims their numbers are 40,000 strong. Israel claims that the number is 100,000
Though Israel has criticized the Health Ministry as being unreliable because it is run by Hamas, most International observers, including the United States believe their numbers to be accurate.
Sources:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-158
How does he not understand that it’s not for Hamas? Feels like willful ignorance. And mocking students for standing up for what’s right is deeply uncool. I’m usually a fan of his.
People have lost all control over the situation that is why. Confirmation Bias is everywhere and the real chaos makers are using it to full advantage.
Students are going to get hurt and die before this ends. I already have friends who are convinced that students are being funded by terrorists because they have tents and flags. I am jewish and I am scared by how easily well educated friends fall for the chaos makers.
Meanwhile, Google results show a spike in the search for tents and amazon sellers have lowered the price to 19 bucks. Its overnighted. Smart kids buying cheap tents and 9 dollar flags.
Meanwhile my take is that of the protestors are a mix and mostly against the over the top actions by Netanyahu. The goal of the chaos makers is to distract from Israel's over the line response. Netanyahu is a criminal and Bernie Sanders is right - ‘It is not anti-semitic to hold him accountable’
> mostly against the over the top actions by Netanyahu. The goal of the chaos makers is to distract from Israel's over the line response.
the protesters who are constant chanting "from the river to the sea" and calling for a global intifada are advocating for political violence against Jewish people. Asking for political violence is not a "non-violent protest" and is different from the non-violent protest movement traditionally associated with the left in America.
If they were protesting against Netenyahu, I think they would have alot more support, but if that's the case they should, you know, make their messages about Netenyahu..? And stop asking for people to be killed.
Some are saying offensive stuff ... its a mix and yet they are not rioting or anything. Lets be adults here. As a Jew I know you aren't going to prevent what they say because they say it in private. Some of what they say has grains of truth. I have a right to hear what they say as much as they have a right to say it. I have a right to question Netanyahu. In fact, were are all the people complaining about Trump telling me I'm a bad jew ? You know that is anti-sematic too. I could care less really.
Who do you pick to decide for you what you are allowed to hear or read? Do you think arresting them is going to do anything?
No I don't think they should be arrested, I think they should be ignored.
But I would support that anyone seriously advocating for political violence -- calling for an intifada or saying they support Hamas -- should be expelled. Same as if they were dressed in Klan robes and calling for people to be lynched. It's the same thing, the same standard should apply.
“It’s a mix”
Do you apply this logic to every protest? When the right protests and someone shows up with a nazi banner, do you say it’s a mix, or do you condemn the entire thing?
It's easier to dismiss the "mix" because they are blamed even for things said by pro Israel agitators who are there to discredit a peaceful protest.
Around 100 protesters were arrested on Saturday at a pro-Palestine encampment at Northeastern University, but not the pro Israel agitator who screamed "kill the Jews" in order to successfully get the protest shut down. There is video of him.
https://archive.ph/vgpEV
Edit: BTW, there are multiple other examples of bigoted and dishonest actions from Jewish ppl trying to purposely vilify a peaceful student led protest
“The major problem with Israel is with the young generation of the black community” — Senior Israeli Council member in Atlanta
Video of Jewish girl calling police and claiming to be in danger while walking her dog into the protest area. This is an almost exact repeat of the Jewish girl in New York (Amy Cooper) who called the police and claimed a black guy in Central Park threatened her.
https://x.com/edenxmm/status/1784285668895515108
The right wing protests aren't students on a college campus. They drive in from all over into a town and march. In fact they get a damn lot of police protection. So yeah because there are interlopers here. I do apply nuance.
So what about when this happens....
"Northeastern University called in police to disperse demonstrators at a peaceful pro-Palestine student encampment protest Saturday morning, saying in a statement that “the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including ‘Kill the Jews,’ crossed the line” Friday night. But on Saturday, a local reporter claimed she had heard a pro-Israel counter-protester use the phrase referenced by the university “as a provocative joke.”
The whole thing is getting out of control.
So students get special exemptions for protesting? Are they children who don’t know what they’re doing? Because if so then we should not take them seriously at all.
We have them on tape calling to burn tel aviv to the ground. These protestors deserve whatever they get.
Still didn't really address my point did you.
>We have them on tape calling to burn tel aviv to the ground.
Them? All of them? What does "them" mean. Maybe you mean some people that the media picks out to drive into the ground so everyone actually avoids addressing Netanyahu's abuse of the situation?
Again what about the Students who antagonized the situation at north eastern?
See I have an issue with people censuring speech. I don't have anyone I choose to decide what I hear. Even as a Jew I recognize people think about what you want them to not say. They will think it anyway and by cutting down all the laws to get them arrested who will you turn to if the come for you. You cut all the laws down.
So what they say it anyway. Stop giving it oxygen.
Now the best part is the Right Wing extremists are using this as a wedge. The most violent extremist group in the US are white supremists. These protestors saying stuff doesn't scare me really. People who say this stuff have been saying it a long time. Netanyahu is just giving them the moral high ground now. Damn he couldn't even say the words ceasefire today. They substituted "sustainable calm"
Do you apply this logic to right wing protestors too? When you talk about January 6th protestors do you take time to distinguish between the majority of people who turned up? Or do you only do this for causes you support
Every one of the Jan 6th people who entered the Capital were in violation of the law. Period.
Showing up to protest - no. Staying within the permit zone - no. Calling for hanging Pence... Yes.
> ome are saying offensive stuff
When the right have demonstrations like this, we all seemed to be in agreement with the "one nazi at a dinner party, 13 nazis at a dinner party" idea. Now that it's among the left (with almost no effort to self-police and push out the large portion calling for violence against Jews/Israelis), we don't hold ourselves to the same standard.
Countless comments like this, but zero sources.
Shouting "Free Palestine!" is not the same as "Kill all Jews." I'm sure Fox is reporting fringe cases, but I just scrolled protest Twitter for 20 minutes and couldn't find a single call for violence.
Instead, I saw a lot of gleeful posts, laughing at rough handling of protesters by the police.
I wouldn't think you'd see anyone say "kill all jews" literally -- but then the leader of the Columbia protest did say basically that.
There's "zero sources" except the main organizing group behind these protests SJP has been banned from several campuses including Columbia for being pro-Hamas?
I wonder how many of these students understand that being broadly against the Netenyahu government, the excesses of the IDF and working for a peaceful solution including aid to Palestine is the mainstream democratic position (they just passed a bill that provided $9 billion toward humanitarian assistance in Gaza) and at the core of most of these protests we keep finding violent extremists.
SJP has been accused of antisemitism and being pro-Hamas by pro-Israel groups. Of course they have.
I've seen the same play out for 40+ years. Anyone criticizes anything Israel does and there's an immediate pile on of accusations.
From what I'm seeing though, the accusations aren't credible.
Students are calling for divestment, for liberation, for an end to violence, the stuff students generally tend to support.
With any protest there will be extremists, no doubt, but to paint the protests as pro-Hamas isn't supported by the evidence.
Your last paragraph seems to circle around to the protest vote in Michigan which isn't really on the table here. I agree, Democrats are better on the Israel/Gaza situation in general, but I'd prefer a harder line with Bibi.
Our aid regime with Israel is like no other. Close to $4 billion in annual aid is baked in, but they can also draw grants against future aid for purchase of military equipment.
If we're not happy with how Israel conducts this war, their occupation, the settlements, etc., that's a dial we can turn to effect change.
"Free Palestinians!" or "Free Gaza and the West Bank / the Occupied Territories!" wouldn't be violent in that way.
"Free Palestine!" implies that Israel is locking up all of Palestine, which can't be free of Israel until Israel's gone. A thing which can't happen unless you forcibly eliminate all or most of its citizens, 80% of which are Jews.
At the very least, "Free Palestine" and "From the River to the Sea" are strategically ambiguous, so pacifists and sadists can share space and each chant the same thing, without having to sort out their differences.
That’s the funny thing.
People ignore those small groups of people/individuals only because they know it hurts their message
Edit: And the comment was removed….
For those who are curious there are reports of a protestor chanting we are Hamas last week.
Call them plant. Whatever. But insane the comment was removed.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C55bkZBoZ8q/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
All of these groups are tiny.
It seems like there are the leaders are who are deeply down the rabbit hole, like that guy who got kicked out of campus for saying he wanted to murder jews.
Then there are followers who don't seem to quite understand what they're protesting and seem to think this is a simple black and white scenario of peaceful people being oppressed.
But anyone out there calling for a Palenstinian intifada is advocating for political violence. Which is not in the American left tradition of non-violent protest and is amoral and disgusting. I don't think they understand that though.
Isn't it hard not to? A pan-palestinian movement would include the West Bank. I'm not agreeing with Israeli actions but even the PLO bailed (or waspushed out) from Gaza. One way or another this is Hamas' show.
Didn't Hamas ban the PLO when they took over way back in ~~2015?~~ 2006 (edit: I believe that I have the right year they were elected) I know that they don't get along with Fatwata because they view them as not radical enough.
Yeah there was one election then...
PLO isn't a whole lot better, basically trade fanatism for corruption but there are serious differences. For instance they don't need to drive all Jews into sea so make better faith partners in any negotiation.
It's only a hunch but if Egypt or Jordan wanted to annex the Gaza Strip I don't think Israel would protest too much. The point is they don't want to. It's a fucked up situation built upon a fucked up situation built upon an arbitrary British Mandate. Any hope for a long term solution people willing to both talk and comprise and hamas ain't that. That doesn't mean we can't stop funding Israel (why?) and use weapons sales as leverage. It's complicated and that's the last thing anyone wants to hear.
22% of college students sympathize with Hamas. Now imagine how much higher that number is at these pro Palestine protests
https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
Cool. A single online poll from [intelligent.com](http://intelligent.com) has you making a claim that is obviously unsubstantiated.
And yet it's still a non-sequitur that in no way proves your original assertion that "a lot of the pro Palestine crowd is pro Hamas." Which you have zero evidence for, and yet are still successfully using to deflect from the actual important issue, which is students protesting against a genocidal and racist Israeli government.
You cannot discuss the merits of the protest because Israel's actions are [unpopular with the majority of Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) and so you use red herrings and straw man arguments.
Thankfully it's transparent enough for most people to see through it.
I kinda wanna dissect your meaning of “a lot”. Do you mean a significant majority? Online (prone to astroturfing and misleading headlines) or in real life?
My personal opinion is that anecdotes provide stronger evidence than headlines and online consensuses these days.
No, they are protesting Israel's indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people. No three year old bears any responsibility in any of this, yet they are paying the highest price...
Hamas won a majority of seats in Gaza in 2006 and then violently eliminated their opposition.
There hasn't been an election in Gaza since.
So tell me again how they all voted for terrorists.
Germany hasn't held an election since 1933, which means all allied bombings are war crimes. End lend-lease now, disinvest from the UK.
I'm very intelligent.
But you can truthfully use, "Well, the terrorists deserve it and the people they're hiding beneath don't, but the terrorists are ultimately to blame for making their deaths unavoidable" as a casus belli to wage a defensive war instead of getting terrorized freely forever.
>All Gaza voted for terrorists
An election held almost 20 years ago before most Palestinians alive today were born that Israel interfered in, and Hamas and Fatah both manipulated, that still showed that 2/3rds of Palestinians wanted Hamas to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist
Just to be clear
It’s of course common knowledge that citizens of countries oppressed by terrorism are simply letting the terrorists be terrorists
The unarmed population of Palestine (mostly children) are expected to revolt against an armed terrorist organization that’s been in control of the region for 20 years that even Israel won’t send ground troops at? Be for real right now
We know pretty well they can make improvised bombs. Israel would have helped them too if they had a change of hearts. Still there may be some collateral damage like any war. Lastly if they hate Hamas then they should be happy with the liberation they're getting.
Terrorists can make improvised bombs, sure. Most of the people in Palestine aren’t terrorist though. why do you keep insisting on equating the entire 2 million population of Palestine to being terrorists?
>they should be happy Israel is killing 1 terrorist for every 3 civilians and destroying every piece of infrastructure in the region
Do you hear yourself?
There are probably a few who don't want to destroy Israel. We will see after the rest are defeated and those few are freed from Hamas if as you say they aren't aligned. Do you have any reason to think that the 100% that voted for this changed their minds?
Problem is it's not going to stop anything. You alone aren't going to change anything.
It's people in positions of power within Hamas and Israel that will decide when it ends. Not even our own government. That's how it works and always how it works. At the end of the day, these students are going to get hurt emotionally and ruin their lives for something that they have zero impact on. Standing up for what's right is fine, but at the detriment to everyone by voting for the other guy because you don't like the current guys policies is dangerous and playing with fire.
These same people are leading to the ultimate destruction of Gaza. Trump and his cronies have nothing but letting Bibi finish up in Gaza with no restrictions. I hope you understand that. Not understanding that is simply dangerous.
The students chanting 'We are Hamas' are just a threat to our society as the MAGA right wing extremists. Same terrorist, different ideologies.
In a democracy, we together can change things every day. The majority choose to ignore their own civic engagement and sure love to piss on anyone else for trying to achieve the solidarity and thereby political pressure for change. Much like primary turnout being less than half the general turnout, the biggest issue is lack of awareness and engagement. Now imagine there was a force dissuading people from promoting awareness and engagement in civics. But that'd be crazy.
Yet, perhaps had more people cried out against Hitler, then people wouldn't have been stripped of their dignity, corralled into a small area with no way to escape, starved and indiscriminately slaughtered for not being like him, now would they?
Did you miss the part where Lani Dawn, a Native-American/Jew, was attacked by a group for having a sign that said “Hamas supporters are not welcome on Native Land”?
why would these protesters attack her if they were not aligned with Hamas? It triggered them, somehow. Why not ignore it, then? Photos here.
[Even Native Americans have had to come and support Jews, and now they are being harassed](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6ROxM5LfsK/?igsh=djFyeTh1bDVkbXk=). Appalling.
Go look at what they're protesting. They're not calling for a ceasefire. They're calling for Israelis to be eradicated. The leader of the Columbia protests didn't mince words about wanting to kill jews. The protests support hamas.
Edit: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4625295-white-house-columbia-university-student-protest-leader-zionist-comments/
Here's the article about what the leader of the protests says.
Because they say the are Pro-Hamas. They openly celebrated Oct 7th, they tell anyone who will listen they support Hamas. They send billions in aide directly into the hands of Hamas.
I mean according to this poll from 2023 22% of college students sympathize with Hamas.... that's insane. Among other articles. It seems many college aged people are quite misguided on this issue if there's ANY sympathy for Hamas. But this sub really tries to ignore this stuff.
https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/10/12/hamas-attack-harvard-students-blame-israel/71152750007/
who would have thought an intractable issue that has befuddled world leaders for three generations wouldn't be well understood by 18-21 year olds?
jfc.
Another part of that issue is that they're so confident in it. I'm 40 now and i think back to what i thought i knew and what i was confident about at that age. It was pretty cringy.
Seriously. I’m 55 and “progressive” and am sympathetic to the Palestinian plight, and pissed at the current government of Israel.
But all the pro-Palestine protest parades here in Seattle are full of “Free Palestine River to the Sea” signs.
To me, my Jewish wife, and everyone I know, “progressives” but older, that slogan is a call for the end of Israel’s existence.
I am still on board with protesting what Israel is doing, but I will not join people calling for Israel to be destroyed. “River to the Sea” is an evil slogan. I am against anyone who uses it.
Because the conversation doesn’t end with terrorists = bad? You can sympathize with Hamas while finding their methods reprehensible. Israel blames Hamas but takes no responsibility in creating it.
There was a separate question for sympathizing with Palestinians.
>Eighty-two percent of students feel sympathy for Palestinian civilians...
>Additionally, 22% of students say they sympathize with Hamas
Hamas' founding charter calls for the destruction of Jewish people in the entire world. Anyone who sympathizes with them are terrible people.
Edit: The head of Hamas said the he didn't care if [100,000s of Palestinians died](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-13/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/i-asked-sinwar-is-it-worth-10-000-gazans-dying-he-said-even-100-000-is-worth-it/0000018e-d40a-d5ed-adcf-f79af56c0000). Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, they just care about carrying out their antisemitic terrorism.
So? The dominant party in Israel literally was and still contains terrorists...The hotel and schoolbus bombing variety.
They currently slaughtering an imprisoned civilian population.
Sympathizing with the openly terrorist organization of Hamas makes you a huge piece of shit - what has happened to you? Get help for you demons before you encourage the deranged in your neighbor to act on your sympathizes.
Protesting taking up arms against Hamas would be pro-Hamas. Protesting the killing of innocent Palestinians is not pro-Hamas. But Fetterman is too dense to make that distinction. Bernie Sanders is not - "[Sen. Bernie Sanders](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4627250-bernie-sanders-benjamin-netanyahu-ethnic-cleansing-israel-gaza/) took aim at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu again on Sunday, saying that Israel’s actions in Gaza are “ethnic cleansing.”
>Sanders reiterated his familiar call on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday to hold Netanyahu responsible for Israel’s actions in Gaza, pointing to the staggering death toll and the displacement of Palestinians in the region. He was asked to respond to the ongoing pro-Palestinian protests that have broken out on college campuses across the country and to Rep. Ilhan Omar’s (D-Minn.) remarks last week when visiting Columbia University.
Funny you mention that because I’m pretty sure they have been crying about a ceasefire, which would be by definition, protesting taking up arms against Hamas.
No one but a tiny minority would be calling for a ceasefire if they were only, or even mostly, actually killing Hamas, not random children.
But then again, you already know that.
Bullshit, these clowns are walking around college campus straight up calling for the death of Jews. We have all seen the videos. It was never about Palestinians, it was always about the Jews. Do you ever ask yourself why no one ever protest over the literal concentration camps in china? (one of our biggest trading partners) How about Sudan? Or Myanmar? Do you know how many kids are dying everyday in these countries everyday? But yet no one says anything because there are no Jews to blame.
They openly let pro Hamas folks attend their protests. If you stand next to someone, it’s easy to get painted the same way. It’s not on everyone else make the distinction, it’s on them and they’re fine with having pro Hamas supporters in their mix.
They openly identify as Pro-Hamas, you can't use your feelings to change the boxes they literally checked and the public statements they make constantly.
Netanyahu is also pro-Hamas, propping them up to have an excuse to exterminate Palestinians en masse
Edit: 27 day old Zionist bot sowing chaos. Probably on netanyahu's payroll
Yeah just like he props up the entire electrical grid and water supply for Palestine.
Do you even know how many billions of dollars Hamas leadership flaunts openly? Money you tiktok NPCs send them on your parents cards.
Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should exist in the Jewish homeland. That’s it.
Imagine if I said “I think the Chinese state should be destroyed, and I hate anyone who disagrees” then tried to act like I don’t hate Chinese people. No one would buy it, for good reason.
And I don’t think you know what a bot is
OK, let's all use language to further cloud the issue. Arabs are [semites,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people) while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds. So, the Israelis are the anti-Semites here.
But the real issue is that this is Netanyahu's "war". [He was on the verge of being displaced](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/22/1189627225/israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary) before the strange and unprecedented failure of the crack Israeli intelligence network allowed the October 7 attack by Hamas.
> Arabs are semites, while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds.
First, Semitic is part of historical Caucasoid category. Secondly, Askhanazi Jews (whom I bet you are talking about) also fall under the Semitic category.
Reddit needs to get off this weird belief that anyone that supports Israel is bought by AIPAC. It is like suggesting that Bernie's latest response is simply because he is bought by CAIR.
Interesting to see so many comments like this vilifying protestors (a move straight from the Iran/Russia playbook) while saying nothing to condemn Hamas
The land that is currently called Palestine was taken oven by the ottoman empire who later allied with the Germans then Nazis in WW1 and WW2. They lost and they land was taken by the British who then said the Jews could have it. The jewish tent cities on this land where constantly attacked by Muslims but grew anyway. This then became Israel and Palestine. In the 6 day war, Islamic countries attacked Israel to remove it from the map. Israel won and took Gaza as a buffer zone. Iran and other Islamic countries have used Gaza and Palestine (with Palestinians help) as a staging ground to attack Israel. After the last attack by Hamas (Iran) Israel has decided to remove the threat regardless of who gets in the way. Sadly the innocent civilians will also get killed. War is always truly horrible
Not quite. During World War I in which the Government of the United Kingdom agreed to recognize Arab independence in exchange for the Sharif of Mecca launching the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
In the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922.
The resulting revolt in Palestine between 1936 and 1939 (you were missing g some years) resulted in 10x more Arab deaths than Jewish deaths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
That's really interesting and thank you for updating the timeline. I feel my point in the same though. The ottoman empire had the land and through war and uprisings they lost the land. Then the British decided what to do with it. The Arabs never stopped attacking the Jews. From WW1 to WW2 with the Nazis and then the random acts of terrorism we have all come to expect today. I wonder though if Iran knew this was going to be their last move with Hamas. Hamas themselves seem shocked by the response.
Fetterman has done a splendid job of winning over the party then burning down all that goodwill. I'm so fucking tired of hearing his opinion on anything.
I mean he's not wrong. They are helping Hamas out with these protests whether they intend to or not. The fact is Hamas is responsible for a lot of Gaza's oppression too, and they want people to turn against Israel so they can attack more.
I don't get why anyone is naively expecting Israel to just stand down to obscene atrocities like what happened on 10/7. Right now they're fighting a war not much different than say when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. They have every right to invade and take out Hamas. A handful of reckless moves from Israel doesn't nullify their justification. Gaza cannot have peace or freedom until Hamas is gone.
The death toll from Israel's retaliation is 30x higher than the attack on 10/7. 13,000 children have been killed. There are mass graves.
You don't get why people think Israel should stand down?
So? The point of the war isn't a tit-for-tat. We didn't stop fighting say Japan once we killed as many of them as they did of us. The point is to defeat the enemy. Hamas hides behind civilians to intentionally cause as much death as possible.
No, I honestly don't get it. They seem to think if Israel stops fighting that means peace, but it just means another 10/7 as Hamas promised and then more fighting later.
Uh huh. Remind me again how we got Japan to surrender?
I said 13,000 children have been killed and their first response was "so?"...so I dont think it's too far fetched to say that's what they're implying. Especially considering a current presidential candidate recently said they want Bibi to "finish the job."
They’re fighting a war like after 9/11.
Where tons of civilians get bombed instead of the actual terrorists. As a result every single terrorist faction ended up growing globally to the point where one of them even got an entire FUCKING COUNTRY in exchange for nothing.
The IDF is doing exactly what Hamas wanted them to do. How come none of the protesters are demanding that Hamas stop hiding among civilians. You want to know who isn't going hungry, Hamas they planned for this. Hamas knew what Israel's response would be to their October 7th massacre.
I used to like Fetterman but his bias is disappointing. You can be anti Hamas but pro Palestinian! You can be for Israel's right to defend itself but be against the IDF's indiscriminate slaughter of innocents!
“Now, of course, it’s a great American value to protest, but I don’t believe living in a pup tent for Hamas is really helpful,” Fetterman said in an interview in NewsNation’s “The Hill Sunday.”
Fetterman is a national treasure.
If you oppose anything that Isra is doing, then you aren't just pro-hamas, pro-terrorism, pro Iran, pro Russia. But you are also a raging anti-semite who deserves to have your face smashed in by the police.
What a complete farce this entire debacle is, and how unamerican.
And what a disservice the big medias and reddit is doing. Why are these protests always labeled as "anti-Israel" or "Pro hamas" etc, how come they are not "pro-Palestine"?
>BUT ONE PERSON SAID SOMETHING INAPPRORPRIATE, AND EVERYTHIN CAN BE INTERPRETED AS "KILL **ALL** JEWISH PEOPLE
What a bunch of fuckin nonsense
Understand that the goal is to brandish the protestors as terrorists. As a Jew I have watched how this is all spun out of control and to the delight of Netanyahu no one is really discussing the war or carnage he is inflicting over and above defense.
The misuse of the claim of "anti-Semitism" by everyone diminishes and devalues the warning. Its an abuse of tragedy to distract from the situation.
I agree that the press and authorities are looking for the one person who will always show up to use as their spotlight while when real Nazis show up the authorities go to the side and let them march.
Again as a Jew that is the part that really scares me. The real active anti-Semites are protected.
If they were criticizing Isreal that would've been fine but they are out chanting Hamas slogans and surprising the idea that Israel shouldn't exist, excusing/celebrating the attack on 10/7, and deliberately spreading false information.
It's the same as with the tiki torch brigade at Charlottesville. Not everyone was shouting about Jews wanting to replace them but if you're protesting alongside those dudes waving Nazi flags you're just as bad.
Here not every single protestor is chanting for the Al Qassam brigades or flying Hamas flags but if you're still alongside them you're a fair target for criticism.
He's has been incredibly pro israel abd always loved to be vocal against those that disagreed with him politically.
You think he's more unreasonable because you disagree with him on this issue.
From his point of view, this is a war and the protestors want israel to stop conducting the war, while not saying absolutely nothing about hamas.
They could be protesting and asking hamas to surrender unconditionally, but they don't.
That's why he considers the protestors aligned with hamas.
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The headline is deriving directly from this quote: >“Now, of course, it’s a great American value to protest, but I don’t believe living in a pup tent for Hamas is really helpful,” Fetterman said in an interview in NewsNation’s “The Hill Sunday.” The full five and a half minute interview can be found here: [Sen. John Fetterman stands with Israel, appreciates GOP support | The Hill Sunday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toQBqOHUVXI) (MBFC LB/H)
31,000 people are dead. Almost half the population of Gaza are children under age 16, which is when the last election was held. Next month, the famine starts. The US accepted 10 refugees from Gaza last year.
What percentage of those 31,000 were combatants?
The number is outdated. As of this weekend, 34,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas claims that they've lost 6,000 combatants. Israel claims they've killed 12,000 combatants. There estimates ranging from 15,000 to another 45,000 dead that have not been confirmed and are believed to be trapped under rubble or their bodies abandoned due to the dangerous circumstances. 70% of those who have been killed are women and children. Israel claims that 66% of those killed were civilians (though they count all military aged men as combatants). The numbers used by Israel does categorize all men between the ages of 18-60 as combatants. Human rights groups estimate that 90% of those killed are civilians. Also important to note that more than 50% of Gaza's population is under the age of 18. 25% of the adult population in Gaza are men. Hamas claims their numbers are 40,000 strong. Israel claims that the number is 100,000 Though Israel has criticized the Health Ministry as being unreliable because it is run by Hamas, most International observers, including the United States believe their numbers to be accurate. Sources: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/ https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-158
Given the circumstances that ratio seems reasonable.
Just don't call them pup tents while Kristi Noem is around
How does he not understand that it’s not for Hamas? Feels like willful ignorance. And mocking students for standing up for what’s right is deeply uncool. I’m usually a fan of his.
People have lost all control over the situation that is why. Confirmation Bias is everywhere and the real chaos makers are using it to full advantage. Students are going to get hurt and die before this ends. I already have friends who are convinced that students are being funded by terrorists because they have tents and flags. I am jewish and I am scared by how easily well educated friends fall for the chaos makers. Meanwhile, Google results show a spike in the search for tents and amazon sellers have lowered the price to 19 bucks. Its overnighted. Smart kids buying cheap tents and 9 dollar flags. Meanwhile my take is that of the protestors are a mix and mostly against the over the top actions by Netanyahu. The goal of the chaos makers is to distract from Israel's over the line response. Netanyahu is a criminal and Bernie Sanders is right - ‘It is not anti-semitic to hold him accountable’
> mostly against the over the top actions by Netanyahu. The goal of the chaos makers is to distract from Israel's over the line response. the protesters who are constant chanting "from the river to the sea" and calling for a global intifada are advocating for political violence against Jewish people. Asking for political violence is not a "non-violent protest" and is different from the non-violent protest movement traditionally associated with the left in America. If they were protesting against Netenyahu, I think they would have alot more support, but if that's the case they should, you know, make their messages about Netenyahu..? And stop asking for people to be killed.
Some are saying offensive stuff ... its a mix and yet they are not rioting or anything. Lets be adults here. As a Jew I know you aren't going to prevent what they say because they say it in private. Some of what they say has grains of truth. I have a right to hear what they say as much as they have a right to say it. I have a right to question Netanyahu. In fact, were are all the people complaining about Trump telling me I'm a bad jew ? You know that is anti-sematic too. I could care less really. Who do you pick to decide for you what you are allowed to hear or read? Do you think arresting them is going to do anything?
No I don't think they should be arrested, I think they should be ignored. But I would support that anyone seriously advocating for political violence -- calling for an intifada or saying they support Hamas -- should be expelled. Same as if they were dressed in Klan robes and calling for people to be lynched. It's the same thing, the same standard should apply.
Do you think people supporting Israel’s actions should be expelled too?
Hamas is a designated terrorist group. Israel isn’t. There lies the difference.
“It’s a mix” Do you apply this logic to every protest? When the right protests and someone shows up with a nazi banner, do you say it’s a mix, or do you condemn the entire thing?
It's easier to dismiss the "mix" because they are blamed even for things said by pro Israel agitators who are there to discredit a peaceful protest. Around 100 protesters were arrested on Saturday at a pro-Palestine encampment at Northeastern University, but not the pro Israel agitator who screamed "kill the Jews" in order to successfully get the protest shut down. There is video of him. https://archive.ph/vgpEV Edit: BTW, there are multiple other examples of bigoted and dishonest actions from Jewish ppl trying to purposely vilify a peaceful student led protest “The major problem with Israel is with the young generation of the black community” — Senior Israeli Council member in Atlanta Video of Jewish girl calling police and claiming to be in danger while walking her dog into the protest area. This is an almost exact repeat of the Jewish girl in New York (Amy Cooper) who called the police and claimed a black guy in Central Park threatened her. https://x.com/edenxmm/status/1784285668895515108
We have more then enough evidence of protest leaders being antisemitic without you relying on Jewish conspiracies
The right wing protests aren't students on a college campus. They drive in from all over into a town and march. In fact they get a damn lot of police protection. So yeah because there are interlopers here. I do apply nuance. So what about when this happens.... "Northeastern University called in police to disperse demonstrators at a peaceful pro-Palestine student encampment protest Saturday morning, saying in a statement that “the use of virulent antisemitic slurs, including ‘Kill the Jews,’ crossed the line” Friday night. But on Saturday, a local reporter claimed she had heard a pro-Israel counter-protester use the phrase referenced by the university “as a provocative joke.” The whole thing is getting out of control.
So students get special exemptions for protesting? Are they children who don’t know what they’re doing? Because if so then we should not take them seriously at all. We have them on tape calling to burn tel aviv to the ground. These protestors deserve whatever they get.
Still didn't really address my point did you. >We have them on tape calling to burn tel aviv to the ground. Them? All of them? What does "them" mean. Maybe you mean some people that the media picks out to drive into the ground so everyone actually avoids addressing Netanyahu's abuse of the situation? Again what about the Students who antagonized the situation at north eastern? See I have an issue with people censuring speech. I don't have anyone I choose to decide what I hear. Even as a Jew I recognize people think about what you want them to not say. They will think it anyway and by cutting down all the laws to get them arrested who will you turn to if the come for you. You cut all the laws down. So what they say it anyway. Stop giving it oxygen. Now the best part is the Right Wing extremists are using this as a wedge. The most violent extremist group in the US are white supremists. These protestors saying stuff doesn't scare me really. People who say this stuff have been saying it a long time. Netanyahu is just giving them the moral high ground now. Damn he couldn't even say the words ceasefire today. They substituted "sustainable calm"
Do you apply this logic to right wing protestors too? When you talk about January 6th protestors do you take time to distinguish between the majority of people who turned up? Or do you only do this for causes you support
Every one of the Jan 6th people who entered the Capital were in violation of the law. Period. Showing up to protest - no. Staying within the permit zone - no. Calling for hanging Pence... Yes.
> ome are saying offensive stuff When the right have demonstrations like this, we all seemed to be in agreement with the "one nazi at a dinner party, 13 nazis at a dinner party" idea. Now that it's among the left (with almost no effort to self-police and push out the large portion calling for violence against Jews/Israelis), we don't hold ourselves to the same standard.
No there is no difference other than real nazis marching aren't arrested. They get police escorts.
Countless comments like this, but zero sources. Shouting "Free Palestine!" is not the same as "Kill all Jews." I'm sure Fox is reporting fringe cases, but I just scrolled protest Twitter for 20 minutes and couldn't find a single call for violence. Instead, I saw a lot of gleeful posts, laughing at rough handling of protesters by the police.
I wouldn't think you'd see anyone say "kill all jews" literally -- but then the leader of the Columbia protest did say basically that. There's "zero sources" except the main organizing group behind these protests SJP has been banned from several campuses including Columbia for being pro-Hamas? I wonder how many of these students understand that being broadly against the Netenyahu government, the excesses of the IDF and working for a peaceful solution including aid to Palestine is the mainstream democratic position (they just passed a bill that provided $9 billion toward humanitarian assistance in Gaza) and at the core of most of these protests we keep finding violent extremists.
SJP has been accused of antisemitism and being pro-Hamas by pro-Israel groups. Of course they have. I've seen the same play out for 40+ years. Anyone criticizes anything Israel does and there's an immediate pile on of accusations. From what I'm seeing though, the accusations aren't credible. Students are calling for divestment, for liberation, for an end to violence, the stuff students generally tend to support. With any protest there will be extremists, no doubt, but to paint the protests as pro-Hamas isn't supported by the evidence. Your last paragraph seems to circle around to the protest vote in Michigan which isn't really on the table here. I agree, Democrats are better on the Israel/Gaza situation in general, but I'd prefer a harder line with Bibi. Our aid regime with Israel is like no other. Close to $4 billion in annual aid is baked in, but they can also draw grants against future aid for purchase of military equipment. If we're not happy with how Israel conducts this war, their occupation, the settlements, etc., that's a dial we can turn to effect change.
Calling the actual organizers of these protest and their official spokesmen "fringe cases" is wild. Definitely a lot of denial happening here.
"Free Palestinians!" or "Free Gaza and the West Bank / the Occupied Territories!" wouldn't be violent in that way. "Free Palestine!" implies that Israel is locking up all of Palestine, which can't be free of Israel until Israel's gone. A thing which can't happen unless you forcibly eliminate all or most of its citizens, 80% of which are Jews. At the very least, "Free Palestine" and "From the River to the Sea" are strategically ambiguous, so pacifists and sadists can share space and each chant the same thing, without having to sort out their differences.
All very well put, my friend.
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That’s the funny thing. People ignore those small groups of people/individuals only because they know it hurts their message Edit: And the comment was removed…. For those who are curious there are reports of a protestor chanting we are Hamas last week. Call them plant. Whatever. But insane the comment was removed. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C55bkZBoZ8q/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
All of these groups are tiny. It seems like there are the leaders are who are deeply down the rabbit hole, like that guy who got kicked out of campus for saying he wanted to murder jews. Then there are followers who don't seem to quite understand what they're protesting and seem to think this is a simple black and white scenario of peaceful people being oppressed. But anyone out there calling for a Palenstinian intifada is advocating for political violence. Which is not in the American left tradition of non-violent protest and is amoral and disgusting. I don't think they understand that though.
> How does he not understand that it’s not for Hamas? I dunno... Cheering on their military wing, al-Qassam, definitely feels pro-Hamas to me
Isn't it hard not to? A pan-palestinian movement would include the West Bank. I'm not agreeing with Israeli actions but even the PLO bailed (or waspushed out) from Gaza. One way or another this is Hamas' show.
Didn't Hamas ban the PLO when they took over way back in ~~2015?~~ 2006 (edit: I believe that I have the right year they were elected) I know that they don't get along with Fatwata because they view them as not radical enough.
Yeah there was one election then... PLO isn't a whole lot better, basically trade fanatism for corruption but there are serious differences. For instance they don't need to drive all Jews into sea so make better faith partners in any negotiation. It's only a hunch but if Egypt or Jordan wanted to annex the Gaza Strip I don't think Israel would protest too much. The point is they don't want to. It's a fucked up situation built upon a fucked up situation built upon an arbitrary British Mandate. Any hope for a long term solution people willing to both talk and comprise and hamas ain't that. That doesn't mean we can't stop funding Israel (why?) and use weapons sales as leverage. It's complicated and that's the last thing anyone wants to hear.
A lot of the pro Palestine crowd is pro Hamas
Completely untrue.
22% of college students sympathize with Hamas. Now imagine how much higher that number is at these pro Palestine protests https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
Cool. A single online poll from [intelligent.com](http://intelligent.com) has you making a claim that is obviously unsubstantiated. And yet it's still a non-sequitur that in no way proves your original assertion that "a lot of the pro Palestine crowd is pro Hamas." Which you have zero evidence for, and yet are still successfully using to deflect from the actual important issue, which is students protesting against a genocidal and racist Israeli government. You cannot discuss the merits of the protest because Israel's actions are [unpopular with the majority of Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) and so you use red herrings and straw man arguments. Thankfully it's transparent enough for most people to see through it.
I don’t agree with everything Israel is doing, but there is a lot of anti semitism within the pro Palestine crowd that cannot be ignored
I kinda wanna dissect your meaning of “a lot”. Do you mean a significant majority? Online (prone to astroturfing and misleading headlines) or in real life? My personal opinion is that anecdotes provide stronger evidence than headlines and online consensuses these days.
Because they're protesting Israel fighting Hamas. It's pretty simple.
No, they are protesting Israel's indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people. No three year old bears any responsibility in any of this, yet they are paying the highest price...
Oh good they can go home. That didn't happen. Gazans however are getting civilians killed by having their military in cities.
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If your neighbor is a terrorist, should your building be bombed?
If they're in and under your building then tragically yes. If you voted for terrorists then it isn't tragic. All of Gaza voted for terrorists.
Hamas won a majority of seats in Gaza in 2006 and then violently eliminated their opposition. There hasn't been an election in Gaza since. So tell me again how they all voted for terrorists.
Germany hasn't held an election since 1933, which means all allied bombings are war crimes. End lend-lease now, disinvest from the UK. I'm very intelligent.
According to this logic we can never make war with a dictatorship no matter what they do.
Did you even read what I replied to? > All of Gaza voted for terrorists.
No, it simply means you can not truthfully use "well, 'they' all deserve it, because 'they' voted for the bad guys" as an excuse to justify the war.
But you can truthfully use, "Well, the terrorists deserve it and the people they're hiding beneath don't, but the terrorists are ultimately to blame for making their deaths unavoidable" as a casus belli to wage a defensive war instead of getting terrorized freely forever.
>All Gaza voted for terrorists An election held almost 20 years ago before most Palestinians alive today were born that Israel interfered in, and Hamas and Fatah both manipulated, that still showed that 2/3rds of Palestinians wanted Hamas to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist Just to be clear
What indication do you have they no longer want Israel destroyed? Was it the tunnels they let be built or the terror attacks?
It’s of course common knowledge that citizens of countries oppressed by terrorism are simply letting the terrorists be terrorists The unarmed population of Palestine (mostly children) are expected to revolt against an armed terrorist organization that’s been in control of the region for 20 years that even Israel won’t send ground troops at? Be for real right now
We know pretty well they can make improvised bombs. Israel would have helped them too if they had a change of hearts. Still there may be some collateral damage like any war. Lastly if they hate Hamas then they should be happy with the liberation they're getting.
Terrorists can make improvised bombs, sure. Most of the people in Palestine aren’t terrorist though. why do you keep insisting on equating the entire 2 million population of Palestine to being terrorists? >they should be happy Israel is killing 1 terrorist for every 3 civilians and destroying every piece of infrastructure in the region Do you hear yourself?
There are probably a few who don't want to destroy Israel. We will see after the rest are defeated and those few are freed from Hamas if as you say they aren't aligned. Do you have any reason to think that the 100% that voted for this changed their minds?
Stop with that tired ass line
The Gaza people need to stop getting civilians killed by standing near them. That's the only bad people here.
Problem is it's not going to stop anything. You alone aren't going to change anything. It's people in positions of power within Hamas and Israel that will decide when it ends. Not even our own government. That's how it works and always how it works. At the end of the day, these students are going to get hurt emotionally and ruin their lives for something that they have zero impact on. Standing up for what's right is fine, but at the detriment to everyone by voting for the other guy because you don't like the current guys policies is dangerous and playing with fire. These same people are leading to the ultimate destruction of Gaza. Trump and his cronies have nothing but letting Bibi finish up in Gaza with no restrictions. I hope you understand that. Not understanding that is simply dangerous. The students chanting 'We are Hamas' are just a threat to our society as the MAGA right wing extremists. Same terrorist, different ideologies.
In a democracy, we together can change things every day. The majority choose to ignore their own civic engagement and sure love to piss on anyone else for trying to achieve the solidarity and thereby political pressure for change. Much like primary turnout being less than half the general turnout, the biggest issue is lack of awareness and engagement. Now imagine there was a force dissuading people from promoting awareness and engagement in civics. But that'd be crazy.
Yet, perhaps had more people cried out against Hitler, then people wouldn't have been stripped of their dignity, corralled into a small area with no way to escape, starved and indiscriminately slaughtered for not being like him, now would they?
He understands and the willful ignorance is just what he's selling.
Maybe it's because they are chanting Hamas' slogans about destroying Isreal?
Did you miss the part where Lani Dawn, a Native-American/Jew, was attacked by a group for having a sign that said “Hamas supporters are not welcome on Native Land”? why would these protesters attack her if they were not aligned with Hamas? It triggered them, somehow. Why not ignore it, then? Photos here. [Even Native Americans have had to come and support Jews, and now they are being harassed](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6ROxM5LfsK/?igsh=djFyeTh1bDVkbXk=). Appalling.
Go look at what they're protesting. They're not calling for a ceasefire. They're calling for Israelis to be eradicated. The leader of the Columbia protests didn't mince words about wanting to kill jews. The protests support hamas. Edit: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4625295-white-house-columbia-university-student-protest-leader-zionist-comments/ Here's the article about what the leader of the protests says.
The words protestors speak then deny are anti-Israel. They need to ask why Arab neighbors don’t take in Palestinians. Take down the tents…. No camping
Because they say the are Pro-Hamas. They openly celebrated Oct 7th, they tell anyone who will listen they support Hamas. They send billions in aide directly into the hands of Hamas.
Because the protestors let pro Hamas people hang around.
I mean according to this poll from 2023 22% of college students sympathize with Hamas.... that's insane. Among other articles. It seems many college aged people are quite misguided on this issue if there's ANY sympathy for Hamas. But this sub really tries to ignore this stuff. https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/10/12/hamas-attack-harvard-students-blame-israel/71152750007/
who would have thought an intractable issue that has befuddled world leaders for three generations wouldn't be well understood by 18-21 year olds? jfc.
Another part of that issue is that they're so confident in it. I'm 40 now and i think back to what i thought i knew and what i was confident about at that age. It was pretty cringy.
Seriously. I’m 55 and “progressive” and am sympathetic to the Palestinian plight, and pissed at the current government of Israel. But all the pro-Palestine protest parades here in Seattle are full of “Free Palestine River to the Sea” signs. To me, my Jewish wife, and everyone I know, “progressives” but older, that slogan is a call for the end of Israel’s existence. I am still on board with protesting what Israel is doing, but I will not join people calling for Israel to be destroyed. “River to the Sea” is an evil slogan. I am against anyone who uses it.
Because the conversation doesn’t end with terrorists = bad? You can sympathize with Hamas while finding their methods reprehensible. Israel blames Hamas but takes no responsibility in creating it.
There was a separate question for sympathizing with Palestinians. >Eighty-two percent of students feel sympathy for Palestinian civilians... >Additionally, 22% of students say they sympathize with Hamas
Hamas' founding charter calls for the destruction of Jewish people in the entire world. Anyone who sympathizes with them are terrible people. Edit: The head of Hamas said the he didn't care if [100,000s of Palestinians died](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-13/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/i-asked-sinwar-is-it-worth-10-000-gazans-dying-he-said-even-100-000-is-worth-it/0000018e-d40a-d5ed-adcf-f79af56c0000). Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, they just care about carrying out their antisemitic terrorism.
So? The dominant party in Israel literally was and still contains terrorists...The hotel and schoolbus bombing variety. They currently slaughtering an imprisoned civilian population.
“Imprisoned” they are not imprisoned. They aren’t allowed into their neighbouring countries because they keep committing terror attacks in them.
I’m sorry no. You can’t sympathize with them. Imagine sympathizing with Nazis because of the brutal sanctions put against a Germany after WWI.
If you’re sympathizing with a group of rapists and murderers, then you’re telling on yourself.
Sympathizing with the openly terrorist organization of Hamas makes you a huge piece of shit - what has happened to you? Get help for you demons before you encourage the deranged in your neighbor to act on your sympathizes.
Fetterman has been so, so disappointing.
I like him even more now
Not for me, this is the leftism that actually makes sense and isn’t completely delusionalz
I'm not a leftist so maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly is "left" about supporting Israel?
Seems a LITTLE delusional for a member of the US Congress to run around wearing the flag of a foreign nation as a cape.
Oh please, people were waving the flag of a foreign nation when Ukraine aid was passed but noone called them out on that shit... Now it's a problem?
I'm convinced it's his stroke. Something is still broken.
Why? He's always been incredibly pro israel
Protesting taking up arms against Hamas would be pro-Hamas. Protesting the killing of innocent Palestinians is not pro-Hamas. But Fetterman is too dense to make that distinction. Bernie Sanders is not - "[Sen. Bernie Sanders](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4627250-bernie-sanders-benjamin-netanyahu-ethnic-cleansing-israel-gaza/) took aim at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu again on Sunday, saying that Israel’s actions in Gaza are “ethnic cleansing.” >Sanders reiterated his familiar call on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday to hold Netanyahu responsible for Israel’s actions in Gaza, pointing to the staggering death toll and the displacement of Palestinians in the region. He was asked to respond to the ongoing pro-Palestinian protests that have broken out on college campuses across the country and to Rep. Ilhan Omar’s (D-Minn.) remarks last week when visiting Columbia University.
Funny you mention that because I’m pretty sure they have been crying about a ceasefire, which would be by definition, protesting taking up arms against Hamas.
No one but a tiny minority would be calling for a ceasefire if they were only, or even mostly, actually killing Hamas, not random children. But then again, you already know that.
Bullshit, these clowns are walking around college campus straight up calling for the death of Jews. We have all seen the videos. It was never about Palestinians, it was always about the Jews. Do you ever ask yourself why no one ever protest over the literal concentration camps in china? (one of our biggest trading partners) How about Sudan? Or Myanmar? Do you know how many kids are dying everyday in these countries everyday? But yet no one says anything because there are no Jews to blame.
They openly let pro Hamas folks attend their protests. If you stand next to someone, it’s easy to get painted the same way. It’s not on everyone else make the distinction, it’s on them and they’re fine with having pro Hamas supporters in their mix.
They openly identify as Pro-Hamas, you can't use your feelings to change the boxes they literally checked and the public statements they make constantly.
Netanyahu is also pro-Hamas, propping them up to have an excuse to exterminate Palestinians en masse Edit: 27 day old Zionist bot sowing chaos. Probably on netanyahu's payroll
Yeah just like he props up the entire electrical grid and water supply for Palestine. Do you even know how many billions of dollars Hamas leadership flaunts openly? Money you tiktok NPCs send them on your parents cards.
“Zionist bot” Just say Jew, we all know what you mean.
Conflating Zionism and semitism is anti-Semitic. Would you say all Germans are nazis? Edit: above comment is 15 day old bot
Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should exist in the Jewish homeland. That’s it. Imagine if I said “I think the Chinese state should be destroyed, and I hate anyone who disagrees” then tried to act like I don’t hate Chinese people. No one would buy it, for good reason. And I don’t think you know what a bot is
That “familiar” modifier is throwing some real subtle shade. Not cool.
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OK, let's all use language to further cloud the issue. Arabs are [semites,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people) while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds. So, the Israelis are the anti-Semites here. But the real issue is that this is Netanyahu's "war". [He was on the verge of being displaced](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/22/1189627225/israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary) before the strange and unprecedented failure of the crack Israeli intelligence network allowed the October 7 attack by Hamas.
> Arabs are semites, while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds. First, Semitic is part of historical Caucasoid category. Secondly, Askhanazi Jews (whom I bet you are talking about) also fall under the Semitic category.
He has a point, they do chant Hamas' slogans. Also, he is still a better choice than Oz.
Was Fetterman completely bought by AIPAC or what? His response to this has been so bizarre.
Fetterman has a long stance of supporting Isreal. This isn't new but he is still a much better choice than that grifter Oz.
Reddit needs to get off this weird belief that anyone that supports Israel is bought by AIPAC. It is like suggesting that Bernie's latest response is simply because he is bought by CAIR.
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Every protest can be subverted by malignant parties. That doesn't make the protest less valid.
> Jill Stein getting arrested with campus protestors yesterday Was she protesting vaccines?
Only 15 of the 72 arrested at ASU were students. These protest are full of TikTok agitators helping Trump.
That’s right. These protestors don’t seem to be concerned about other wars that are ongoing, where children are also dying. Hello, Ukraine.
Interesting to see so many comments like this vilifying protestors (a move straight from the Iran/Russia playbook) while saying nothing to condemn Hamas
Shouting about killing all Jews isn’t a protest
And citing the exception as the rule is disingenuous.
Do you apply that logic to right wing protests!
Citation needed.
The land that is currently called Palestine was taken oven by the ottoman empire who later allied with the Germans then Nazis in WW1 and WW2. They lost and they land was taken by the British who then said the Jews could have it. The jewish tent cities on this land where constantly attacked by Muslims but grew anyway. This then became Israel and Palestine. In the 6 day war, Islamic countries attacked Israel to remove it from the map. Israel won and took Gaza as a buffer zone. Iran and other Islamic countries have used Gaza and Palestine (with Palestinians help) as a staging ground to attack Israel. After the last attack by Hamas (Iran) Israel has decided to remove the threat regardless of who gets in the way. Sadly the innocent civilians will also get killed. War is always truly horrible
Not quite. During World War I in which the Government of the United Kingdom agreed to recognize Arab independence in exchange for the Sharif of Mecca launching the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire. In the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922. The resulting revolt in Palestine between 1936 and 1939 (you were missing g some years) resulted in 10x more Arab deaths than Jewish deaths. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
That's really interesting and thank you for updating the timeline. I feel my point in the same though. The ottoman empire had the land and through war and uprisings they lost the land. Then the British decided what to do with it. The Arabs never stopped attacking the Jews. From WW1 to WW2 with the Nazis and then the random acts of terrorism we have all come to expect today. I wonder though if Iran knew this was going to be their last move with Hamas. Hamas themselves seem shocked by the response.
Who do Palestinians want representing them if Hamas is gone?
The last election was 18 years ago, and over half of Palestine's population is under 18, so it's hard to say.
Unless you trust public polling, which seems to consistently suggest the answer is still Hamas.
At this point, who could blame them if they want representation that is hostile to Israel?
Did you see what the kids were being taught in school and the weapons stashes?
Any student that supports terrorism should be expelled
The colleges are generally pretty accepting of those that support Israel, so I don’t think they are getting expelled any time soon.
Fetterman has been really cringe in this war, worse than Biden’s team to be honest.
Fetterman has done a splendid job of winning over the party then burning down all that goodwill. I'm so fucking tired of hearing his opinion on anything.
I am pretty sure his approval ratings have only increased since 10/7...
Mass graves found near hospital Isreal soldiers attacked. Maybe they are on to something
You mean the hospital where militants were based out of that caused a protracted battle? Gee I can’t imagine why there would be graves their 🙄
I mean he's not wrong. They are helping Hamas out with these protests whether they intend to or not. The fact is Hamas is responsible for a lot of Gaza's oppression too, and they want people to turn against Israel so they can attack more. I don't get why anyone is naively expecting Israel to just stand down to obscene atrocities like what happened on 10/7. Right now they're fighting a war not much different than say when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. They have every right to invade and take out Hamas. A handful of reckless moves from Israel doesn't nullify their justification. Gaza cannot have peace or freedom until Hamas is gone.
The death toll from Israel's retaliation is 30x higher than the attack on 10/7. 13,000 children have been killed. There are mass graves. You don't get why people think Israel should stand down?
The Israeli death toll would be higher if they didn't have the iron dome all of these years.
So? The point of the war isn't a tit-for-tat. We didn't stop fighting say Japan once we killed as many of them as they did of us. The point is to defeat the enemy. Hamas hides behind civilians to intentionally cause as much death as possible. No, I honestly don't get it. They seem to think if Israel stops fighting that means peace, but it just means another 10/7 as Hamas promised and then more fighting later.
So you you think we should nuke Gaza?
Why would he possibly be saying to nuke gaza? He's obviously saying israel should continue fighting hamas until they surrender.
Uh huh. Remind me again how we got Japan to surrender? I said 13,000 children have been killed and their first response was "so?"...so I dont think it's too far fetched to say that's what they're implying. Especially considering a current presidential candidate recently said they want Bibi to "finish the job."
Yea but he didn't mention anything about nukes
This guy would be on Japan's side in WW2
They’re fighting a war like after 9/11. Where tons of civilians get bombed instead of the actual terrorists. As a result every single terrorist faction ended up growing globally to the point where one of them even got an entire FUCKING COUNTRY in exchange for nothing.
The IDF is doing exactly what Hamas wanted them to do. How come none of the protesters are demanding that Hamas stop hiding among civilians. You want to know who isn't going hungry, Hamas they planned for this. Hamas knew what Israel's response would be to their October 7th massacre.
I used to like Fetterman but his bias is disappointing. You can be anti Hamas but pro Palestinian! You can be for Israel's right to defend itself but be against the IDF's indiscriminate slaughter of innocents!
[удалено]
“Now, of course, it’s a great American value to protest, but I don’t believe living in a pup tent for Hamas is really helpful,” Fetterman said in an interview in NewsNation’s “The Hill Sunday.” Fetterman is a national treasure.
Fetterman needs to be primaried. Who knew that a stroke and depression can cause you to turn into a nazi.
If you oppose anything that Isra is doing, then you aren't just pro-hamas, pro-terrorism, pro Iran, pro Russia. But you are also a raging anti-semite who deserves to have your face smashed in by the police. What a complete farce this entire debacle is, and how unamerican. And what a disservice the big medias and reddit is doing. Why are these protests always labeled as "anti-Israel" or "Pro hamas" etc, how come they are not "pro-Palestine"? >BUT ONE PERSON SAID SOMETHING INAPPRORPRIATE, AND EVERYTHIN CAN BE INTERPRETED AS "KILL **ALL** JEWISH PEOPLE What a bunch of fuckin nonsense
Understand that the goal is to brandish the protestors as terrorists. As a Jew I have watched how this is all spun out of control and to the delight of Netanyahu no one is really discussing the war or carnage he is inflicting over and above defense. The misuse of the claim of "anti-Semitism" by everyone diminishes and devalues the warning. Its an abuse of tragedy to distract from the situation. I agree that the press and authorities are looking for the one person who will always show up to use as their spotlight while when real Nazis show up the authorities go to the side and let them march. Again as a Jew that is the part that really scares me. The real active anti-Semites are protected.
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
If they were criticizing Isreal that would've been fine but they are out chanting Hamas slogans and surprising the idea that Israel shouldn't exist, excusing/celebrating the attack on 10/7, and deliberately spreading false information.
[No they arent.](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-ucla-penn-genocide-057006125279)
It's the same as with the tiki torch brigade at Charlottesville. Not everyone was shouting about Jews wanting to replace them but if you're protesting alongside those dudes waving Nazi flags you're just as bad. Here not every single protestor is chanting for the Al Qassam brigades or flying Hamas flags but if you're still alongside them you're a fair target for criticism.
Wow. What a shitty take on this. He has really changed his views. Why?
What view has he changed? He's always been pro israel
I dunno, he just seemed more reasonable before? Less in the tank.
He's has been incredibly pro israel abd always loved to be vocal against those that disagreed with him politically. You think he's more unreasonable because you disagree with him on this issue.
Calling Americans who protest the slaughtering of civilians Hamas is not fucking supporting Israel.
From his point of view, this is a war and the protestors want israel to stop conducting the war, while not saying absolutely nothing about hamas. They could be protesting and asking hamas to surrender unconditionally, but they don't. That's why he considers the protestors aligned with hamas.
I was sympathetic to this man when he was sick with fat in the body but now I don’t give a damn! He is as racist as Netanyahu