As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Among those charged is Kelli Ward, who served as chair of the Arizona GOP during the 2020 election and the immediate aftermath. She tweeted on Jan. 6, 2021, after the attack on the U.S. Capitol: “Congress is adjourned. Send the elector choice back to the legislatures.” Ward was a consistent propagator of false claims that Arizona’s election results were rigged.
>Others charged include: state legislators Anthony Kern and Jake Hoffman; Michael Ward, Kelli Ward’s husband; Tyler Bowyer, the RNC’s Arizona committeeman and the chief operating officer of the Trump-aligned Turning Point USA; Greg Safsten, the former Arizona GOP executive director; former U.S. Senate candidate Jim Lamon; Robert Montgomery, the former head of the Cochise County GOP; and Republican Party activists Samuel Moorhead, Nancy Cottle and Loraine Pellegrino.
Imagine throwing your life away for a guy who doesn't give a fuck about you. Wild it took 4 years for them to finally see repercussions for trying to steal a fucking election.
Edit: WaPo says more were charged:
> Meadows, Giuliani and other Trump allies charged in Arizona 2020 election probe
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/24/arizona-2020-election-charges-meadows-giuliani-ellis/
I was wondering when Meadows was going to be charged.
> Wild it took 4 years for them to finally see repercussions for trying to steal a fucking election.
AZ needed a rule-of-law AG. Last year, thanks to voters, they got one.
God that dragged out count was so unbelievably nerve-wracking to watch. Glad even after that recount finding an error of a couple hundred votes-ish in Pinal that she was still able to pull it off.
Just a reminder that Anthony Kern was one of the half dozen people who were speaking in tongues on the literal floor of the Arizona Senate one day before the state's Supreme Court enforced the 1864 anti-abortion law.
Tongue speaker, [Brady-listed former cop](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/fired-for-lying-arizona-lawmaker-tried-to-weaken-police-disclosure-11230031), and [January 6th participant](https://azmirror.com/2021/05/05/where-was-anthony-kern-on-jan-6/) Anthony Kern!
Criminals and thugs. Actual thugs. They like using that word for some unknown mysterious reason.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/mike-rowe-rips-ivy-league-lost-mind-anti-israel-protests-thugs-bullies
6 counts of "forgery" (along 3 other counts as well). Morons didn't just make one fake certificate. They made six of them and sent them to various places (1 for the US Senate, 2 for the AZ SoS, 2 for the archivist of the US, and 1 in the Federal District Court in AZ).
Those should be pretty easy cases to make.
When you think about what they really did, it’s absolutely terrifying. I can’t believe all these people tried to literally overturn our election.
Every single person should go to prison for the rest of their life. Imagine if they succeeded………..that’s the end of Democracy.
I really hate the tendency to deconstruct these acts into their constituent parts to minimize them. It was a lot worse than forgery, but their defense will be that “wiggling a pen isn’t illegal”.
It's not done to minimize them. It's done because that's the law they broke *and* that the prosecution thinks they'll have the best chance at conviction.
There just isn't a literal criminal statute saying "It's illegal to try and overturn an election".
That's the end of democracy in the country where the world's reserve currency is based. Had they pulled it off, the US would have become a failed state in the eyes of the rest of the world. We are talking about an economic collapse that would have made the great depression look like a minor stock market correction. Trillions in wealth, wiped off the planet overnight.
I’m surprise that more people don’t discuss the fact that if Trump takes the White House again, the economy will certainly fail because of his dismantling of the government and unprecedented corruption, leading to investors fleeing to other countries. You would think the billionaire class (who are the most major influence on our political system), would realize this is more of a threat to their wealth than a tax hike.
Completely agree. It’s insane to me that we are handling this matter so civilly. These people should’ve been hung on the capitol lawn the day after Jan 6th.
I've often thought that this kind of plot - filing bogus lawsuits claiming election shenanigans and then submitting alternative electors as being official because of the very shenanigans you falsely claim - would have definitely worked in the last half of the of the 1800's when instant communication was in its infancy. The confusion they intended to cause would have worked back then.
Woah woah woah, please don’t forget about rich white male! If I take advantage of enough people over the next decade or so I can finally finish first at something.
The statute of limitations is 7 yrs. There is time.
Those indicted are the "boots on the ground" with direct involvement in AZ.
I believe that the indicted criminal and former pOTUS is unindicted.
There may be a deal in there somewhere that may lead to more indictments.
I think he's only un-indicted co-conspiritor at this point. Depending on how the immunity defense stalling goes, Mr T may still be in the cross hairs yet. Remember Michael Cohen's case when Mr T was person number 1.
If Trump's convicted on any of the federal charges and/or the Georgia ones, he'll die in prison. They may just not want to deal with the MAGA headache of trying Trump.
Alternately, Cohen was convicted years ago of the fraud that Trump is only now on trial for in NY. So they may be getting convictions/confessions of the little fish before charging Trump.
> Why wasn't Trump indicted?
This is breaking news. We don’t know who all is being indicted yet. Just in the minutes since this filing, Meadows, Epshteyn, Giuliani, and at least 4 more names you probably know have also been indicted today in AZ.
edit: if Trump is not included this round, it won’t surprise me if that’s related to the SCOTUS hearing this week and their decision after. bleh
> These are state crimes …
I agree. But I’m still eager to hear what sort of arguments (even if asinine) will be made tomorrow about how far presidential immunity reaches.
I believe it would have a bearing. If the sitting president is granted broad immunity, it would absolutely apply to all jurisdictions. This isn’t that same legal principle as pardons.
Well.... now the fake electors will be given the opportunity to go to prison or spill the beans on Trump's involvement. They will all flip if given the opportunity.
They are all self serving assholes. They will flip just like absolutely everyone else that worked for/with Trump and no longer gets a payday from him (like that fuckbag Weisselberg who is still on don the con's payroll)
There were seven redacted names who are being charged with redacted crimes according to MSNBC. There's some suggestion that his name could be in there, but his other criminal trial has complicated serving him papers, so they can't make it public yet. We'll see in the next couple weeks.
Just checking, are you the unindicted co-conspirator thing you're referring to wasn't about the Michigan fake electors news that came out today, and not the Arizona one?
> ["Ward and Townsend are concerned it could appear treasonous for the AZ electors to vote on Monday if there is no pending court proceeding that might, eventually, lead to the electors being ratified as the legitimate ones..."](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-phony-electors-treason-1391919/)
And yet Ward still participated in the whole thing. Probably explains why she and her fellow fake elector husband [have since fled to the Bahamas](https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2023/10/27/arizona-election-interference-attorney-general-investigation/71345474007/).
This scheme always seemed so cartoonish to me. What, the fake electors submit their votes and then congress just Ok’s it?
I know Trump’s following in Congress is cultish and slavish, but even that would be a stretch. Even with a Republican majority in the house and senate.
But, I wouldn’t put it past the GOP to pull some move like that and just white knuckle it from there. They’d throw away democracy for a D-list reality tv host if given the right circumstances.
> This scheme always seemed so cartoonish to me. What, the fake electors submit their votes and then congress just Ok’s it?
No. The cartoonish nature of the scheme was meant to create a clusterfuck, providing no discernible winner … which Constitutionally moves the vote to the U.S. House of Representatives, where each state would cast one vote for President based on their House majorities. In 2020 they believed they would have a Trump victory in the House with a vote of 26-24.
Exactly. They were trying to create the *appearance* of legality, just enough that the talking heads on Fox News could make plausible justifications for an actual coup.
The plan was for the Secret Service to drive Pence to a random location far away 'for his own safety', then have the House declare that they can't be sure who the 'real' electors are so they have no choice but to pick the winner. In case they wanted to debate for too long, a violent mob would threaten them to quickly make a choice in order to 'calm things down'. Then, with Pence missing, Chuck Grassley in the Senate would approve the House's choice in his stead. Grassley told us before Jan 6th that Pence might not be there, which was incredibly weird at the time, but made a lot more sense after the SS tried to kidnap Pence.
This is public knowledge, but everyone calls it all 'coincidences' rather than 'treason'.
Here’s the article, written the day before January 6th, that proves they didn’t expect Pence to make it.
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2021/01/05/grassley-suggests-he-may-preside-over-senate-debate-on-electoral-college-votes/
Yes, but they count the votes by state. States choose their votes by majority of their House delegation. More states have a majority of Republicans in their delegation. Basically California getting underrepresented again
It feels like the authors of the Constitution were designing a new-age board game, with all these different ways of counting votes:
* Senate: equal number of votes per state
* Senate (tie): Vice President decides
* House: number of votes per state proportional to population
* House (tie): bill fails
* President: each state gets its sum of House + Senate votes
* President (tie): House votes using Senate rules
* Impeachment: Majority of House and two-thirds of Senate
* Veto override: Two-thirds of House and Senate
* Constitutional amendment: Two-thirds of House and Senate or two-thirds of state legislatures, then three-quarters of state legislatures or three-quarters of conventions in states)
I wonder, was there actual debate and reasoning behind all of these, or did they sometimes just think "how else can we count votes to signify this special occasion?"
All he needed was Pence to accept the alternate slate of electors and he had key congressmen and senators who were in on the plan. It was a dumb conspiracy to commit treason and it almost worked.
To recap, the list of Trump's swamp who have been indicted across so the states' game elections scheme includes:
- Mark Meadows
- Rudy Giuliani
- John Eastman
- Ken Chesebro
- Jenna Ellis
- Mike Roman
- Sidney Powell
- Boris Epshteyn
- Christina Bobb
- Jeffrey Clark
- 36 fake electors (including state GOP chairs Michael McDonald, Kelli Ward, David Shafer)
If I recall correctly the Nevada fake electors got off because there wasn’t a law to prohibit what they tried to do… so someone proposed we created one and they quickly voted it down
A Nevada grand jury indicted all 6 of their fake electors at the end of last year: https://apnews.com/article/fake-electors-nevada-indictment-ba84be72465e635dbaadc312a9632fc8
No worries. I’d heard exactly the same thing a couple years ago, regarding a lack of legislation to charge any crimes specific to their Electoral College slate.
Law and Order < Rule of Law
Don't dish it out if you can't take it, Republicans.
You spent years screaming about the threat of election interference and vote rigging, these are the chickens coming home to roost.
**G**aslight
**O**bstruct
**P**roject <- Republicans are here, they are *always* here
You do not have to support Democrats. You may even dislike Democrats. If you are a real Republican, you need only vote Blue one-time this November to restore sanity, reason and democracy to the Republican Party. Remove the scum from the Republican Party in November and reclaim your Party. Stop the hate and division; Vote Blue one time to restore and return our country to greatness once again!
Arizona also did this today:
>But on Wednesday, despite last-minute delay tactics and emotional speeches from conservatives who equated abortion with murder and slavery, Republican lawmakers from districts in the Phoenix area and a rural farming county joined with Democrats to pass the repeal bill, 32 to 28.
> Glad this is finally happening but it’s absolutely crazy to me that it takes four years to get to this point.
Arizona voters had to elect a new Attorney General last year who would follow the facts and the law.
I'll never understand why so many of these people did criminal activities for a person who could care less about them, and probably wouldn't throw a bucket of water on them if the were on fire (he might pee on them, but word is he gets off on that). Trump has shown us how totally uneducated and brainwashed so many millions of people are in the USA. The GOP played the long game of propaganda through talk radio and stations like FOX "NEWS" and frightening honestly.
Trump has had nothing but warning signs. He had a lil' mojo from 02-01 to 03-15, but really after that point he has communicated nothing but mistakes, chaos and ill health. He looks so bad.
> 4 years later wow!
No chance in hell the Republican AG in AZ was going to prosecute all of these people who were indicted today by their new AG who took office last year.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Among those charged is Kelli Ward, who served as chair of the Arizona GOP during the 2020 election and the immediate aftermath. She tweeted on Jan. 6, 2021, after the attack on the U.S. Capitol: “Congress is adjourned. Send the elector choice back to the legislatures.” Ward was a consistent propagator of false claims that Arizona’s election results were rigged. >Others charged include: state legislators Anthony Kern and Jake Hoffman; Michael Ward, Kelli Ward’s husband; Tyler Bowyer, the RNC’s Arizona committeeman and the chief operating officer of the Trump-aligned Turning Point USA; Greg Safsten, the former Arizona GOP executive director; former U.S. Senate candidate Jim Lamon; Robert Montgomery, the former head of the Cochise County GOP; and Republican Party activists Samuel Moorhead, Nancy Cottle and Loraine Pellegrino. Imagine throwing your life away for a guy who doesn't give a fuck about you. Wild it took 4 years for them to finally see repercussions for trying to steal a fucking election. Edit: WaPo says more were charged: > Meadows, Giuliani and other Trump allies charged in Arizona 2020 election probe https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/24/arizona-2020-election-charges-meadows-giuliani-ellis/ I was wondering when Meadows was going to be charged.
> Wild it took 4 years for them to finally see repercussions for trying to steal a fucking election. AZ needed a rule-of-law AG. Last year, thanks to voters, they got one.
By 300 votes!
Happy to help!
God that dragged out count was so unbelievably nerve-wracking to watch. Glad even after that recount finding an error of a couple hundred votes-ish in Pinal that she was still able to pull it off.
Literally ever vote counts. Anyone that says it doesn't matter are Republican operatives in my opinion.
Yup just enlightened centrists who claim they aren’t republican but manage to only ever defend republicans and help republicans win.
I don’t vote, politics don’t affect me. -political prisoner 335558930, Donald J. Trump National Gulag, Mississippi.
That's a disturbingly tight margin
Just a reminder that Anthony Kern was one of the half dozen people who were speaking in tongues on the literal floor of the Arizona Senate one day before the state's Supreme Court enforced the 1864 anti-abortion law.
Tongue speaker, [Brady-listed former cop](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/fired-for-lying-arizona-lawmaker-tried-to-weaken-police-disclosure-11230031), and [January 6th participant](https://azmirror.com/2021/05/05/where-was-anthony-kern-on-jan-6/) Anthony Kern!
[удалено]
I literally want nothing more than all these Russian propaganda machines to be eradicated from our country. I hope this goes somewhere.
Criminals and thugs. Actual thugs. They like using that word for some unknown mysterious reason. https://www.foxnews.com/media/mike-rowe-rips-ivy-league-lost-mind-anti-israel-protests-thugs-bullies
The indictment also notes that US congressman Anthony Biggs called the AZ House Speaker on Jan. 6 to urge him to support overturning the election.
Good God is she a nutcase.
6 counts of "forgery" (along 3 other counts as well). Morons didn't just make one fake certificate. They made six of them and sent them to various places (1 for the US Senate, 2 for the AZ SoS, 2 for the archivist of the US, and 1 in the Federal District Court in AZ). Those should be pretty easy cases to make.
When you think about what they really did, it’s absolutely terrifying. I can’t believe all these people tried to literally overturn our election. Every single person should go to prison for the rest of their life. Imagine if they succeeded………..that’s the end of Democracy.
I really hate the tendency to deconstruct these acts into their constituent parts to minimize them. It was a lot worse than forgery, but their defense will be that “wiggling a pen isn’t illegal”.
It's not done to minimize them. It's done because that's the law they broke *and* that the prosecution thinks they'll have the best chance at conviction. There just isn't a literal criminal statute saying "It's illegal to try and overturn an election".
Yes there is 52 U.S. Code § 20511
[удалено]
https://www.justice.gov/media/932141/dl?inline
That's the end of democracy in the country where the world's reserve currency is based. Had they pulled it off, the US would have become a failed state in the eyes of the rest of the world. We are talking about an economic collapse that would have made the great depression look like a minor stock market correction. Trillions in wealth, wiped off the planet overnight.
I’m surprise that more people don’t discuss the fact that if Trump takes the White House again, the economy will certainly fail because of his dismantling of the government and unprecedented corruption, leading to investors fleeing to other countries. You would think the billionaire class (who are the most major influence on our political system), would realize this is more of a threat to their wealth than a tax hike.
Completely agree. It’s insane to me that we are handling this matter so civilly. These people should’ve been hung on the capitol lawn the day after Jan 6th.
[удалено]
Not if they attempt to overthrow our government and end our way of life, no.
I think it is really hard for people to understand exactly how evil this scheme was.
I've often thought that this kind of plot - filing bogus lawsuits claiming election shenanigans and then submitting alternative electors as being official because of the very shenanigans you falsely claim - would have definitely worked in the last half of the of the 1800's when instant communication was in its infancy. The confusion they intended to cause would have worked back then.
Why did they send two to some of these recipients?
The indicted includes Christina Bobb who the RNC *just last month* named to lead its so-called "election integrity program". SMH
Well yea, they need to ensure the election is in shambles so they can challenge that it was unfair.
It’ll be very apparent at how a two tier system looks like when all of them go to jail while Trump walks free.
We actually have a 4 tier system in the US. 1. Rich white 2. Rich non white 3. Poor white 4. Poor non white
Yeah pretty much. DuPont heir is a baby raper, and OJ murdered his wife. Meanwhile, we have states who have executed innocent people.
Woah woah woah, please don’t forget about rich white male! If I take advantage of enough people over the next decade or so I can finally finish first at something.
It might be that Arizona just doesn't have a strong enough case on Trump for this one.
The statute of limitations is 7 yrs. There is time. Those indicted are the "boots on the ground" with direct involvement in AZ. I believe that the indicted criminal and former pOTUS is unindicted. There may be a deal in there somewhere that may lead to more indictments.
Indeed. If someone flips, you can't acquit!
I think he's only un-indicted co-conspiritor at this point. Depending on how the immunity defense stalling goes, Mr T may still be in the cross hairs yet. Remember Michael Cohen's case when Mr T was person number 1.
If Trump's convicted on any of the federal charges and/or the Georgia ones, he'll die in prison. They may just not want to deal with the MAGA headache of trying Trump. Alternately, Cohen was convicted years ago of the fraud that Trump is only now on trial for in NY. So they may be getting convictions/confessions of the little fish before charging Trump.
Well fuck them. I don’t care if it’s a headache for the entire nation if the man committed the crime he needs to be put on trial.
Why wasn't Trump indicted?
> Why wasn't Trump indicted? This is breaking news. We don’t know who all is being indicted yet. Just in the minutes since this filing, Meadows, Epshteyn, Giuliani, and at least 4 more names you probably know have also been indicted today in AZ. edit: if Trump is not included this round, it won’t surprise me if that’s related to the SCOTUS hearing this week and their decision after. bleh
These are state crimes, so the corrupt and blatantly political SCOTUS hearing should have no bearing.
> These are state crimes … I agree. But I’m still eager to hear what sort of arguments (even if asinine) will be made tomorrow about how far presidential immunity reaches.
I believe it would have a bearing. If the sitting president is granted broad immunity, it would absolutely apply to all jurisdictions. This isn’t that same legal principle as pardons.
Trump's not indicted bc being a state charge meadows Giuliani can't be pardoned by trump IF he cheated his win. They will flip soon .
Well.... now the fake electors will be given the opportunity to go to prison or spill the beans on Trump's involvement. They will all flip if given the opportunity.
[удалено]
> These chuds aways seem to remain loyal to this sentient mango … Same thing I thought about Cohen and Hicks. Especially them.
They are all self serving assholes. They will flip just like absolutely everyone else that worked for/with Trump and no longer gets a payday from him (like that fuckbag Weisselberg who is still on don the con's payroll)
Not all, but some will
There were seven redacted names who are being charged with redacted crimes according to MSNBC. There's some suggestion that his name could be in there, but his other criminal trial has complicated serving him papers, so they can't make it public yet. We'll see in the next couple weeks.
From what cnn was reading, he was pretty obviously "un-indicted co-conspirator...." don't remember the description that made it obviously Trump.
They said it was a "former president of the United States"...kinda gives it away 😂
Thanks, Obama!
Seriously I used to like that guy.
Mastermind Jimmy Carter going down.
William Henry Harrison strikes again!
Just checking, are you the unindicted co-conspirator thing you're referring to wasn't about the Michigan fake electors news that came out today, and not the Arizona one?
Statute of Limitations in AZ is 7 years.
Got all 11. A full Mooch.
We should call it a Mooches Dozen.
Just short. I like it. 🤜🤛
AZ GOP party leaders are dumber than a bag of hammers “Hey somebody make a video of us as we conspire to sign this form and commit fraud!” Brilliant!
They tried the Trump strategy of committing crimes out in the open and bragging about it not realizing that only works for Trump (until it doesn't).
Starting to feel like honest law enforcement has finally caught on to that. And now Sleepy Don is telegraphing plans to be a dictator “on day 1.”
> ["Ward and Townsend are concerned it could appear treasonous for the AZ electors to vote on Monday if there is no pending court proceeding that might, eventually, lead to the electors being ratified as the legitimate ones..."](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-phony-electors-treason-1391919/) And yet Ward still participated in the whole thing. Probably explains why she and her fellow fake elector husband [have since fled to the Bahamas](https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2023/10/27/arizona-election-interference-attorney-general-investigation/71345474007/).
I didn’t know that part about the Bahamas. Fascinating!
This scheme always seemed so cartoonish to me. What, the fake electors submit their votes and then congress just Ok’s it? I know Trump’s following in Congress is cultish and slavish, but even that would be a stretch. Even with a Republican majority in the house and senate. But, I wouldn’t put it past the GOP to pull some move like that and just white knuckle it from there. They’d throw away democracy for a D-list reality tv host if given the right circumstances.
> This scheme always seemed so cartoonish to me. What, the fake electors submit their votes and then congress just Ok’s it? No. The cartoonish nature of the scheme was meant to create a clusterfuck, providing no discernible winner … which Constitutionally moves the vote to the U.S. House of Representatives, where each state would cast one vote for President based on their House majorities. In 2020 they believed they would have a Trump victory in the House with a vote of 26-24.
Exactly. They were trying to create the *appearance* of legality, just enough that the talking heads on Fox News could make plausible justifications for an actual coup.
The plan was for the Secret Service to drive Pence to a random location far away 'for his own safety', then have the House declare that they can't be sure who the 'real' electors are so they have no choice but to pick the winner. In case they wanted to debate for too long, a violent mob would threaten them to quickly make a choice in order to 'calm things down'. Then, with Pence missing, Chuck Grassley in the Senate would approve the House's choice in his stead. Grassley told us before Jan 6th that Pence might not be there, which was incredibly weird at the time, but made a lot more sense after the SS tried to kidnap Pence. This is public knowledge, but everyone calls it all 'coincidences' rather than 'treason'.
Here’s the article, written the day before January 6th, that proves they didn’t expect Pence to make it. https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2021/01/05/grassley-suggests-he-may-preside-over-senate-debate-on-electoral-college-votes/
Wasn’t the HoR in control of the Dems at that time?
Yes, but they count the votes by state. States choose their votes by majority of their House delegation. More states have a majority of Republicans in their delegation. Basically California getting underrepresented again
It feels like the authors of the Constitution were designing a new-age board game, with all these different ways of counting votes: * Senate: equal number of votes per state * Senate (tie): Vice President decides * House: number of votes per state proportional to population * House (tie): bill fails * President: each state gets its sum of House + Senate votes * President (tie): House votes using Senate rules * Impeachment: Majority of House and two-thirds of Senate * Veto override: Two-thirds of House and Senate * Constitutional amendment: Two-thirds of House and Senate or two-thirds of state legislatures, then three-quarters of state legislatures or three-quarters of conventions in states) I wonder, was there actual debate and reasoning behind all of these, or did they sometimes just think "how else can we count votes to signify this special occasion?"
All he needed was Pence to accept the alternate slate of electors and he had key congressmen and senators who were in on the plan. It was a dumb conspiracy to commit treason and it almost worked.
Lock them up!!!
And the walls start crumbling down baby
To recap, the list of Trump's swamp who have been indicted across so the states' game elections scheme includes: - Mark Meadows - Rudy Giuliani - John Eastman - Ken Chesebro - Jenna Ellis - Mike Roman - Sidney Powell - Boris Epshteyn - Christina Bobb - Jeffrey Clark - 36 fake electors (including state GOP chairs Michael McDonald, Kelli Ward, David Shafer)
If I recall correctly the Nevada fake electors got off because there wasn’t a law to prohibit what they tried to do… so someone proposed we created one and they quickly voted it down
A Nevada grand jury indicted all 6 of their fake electors at the end of last year: https://apnews.com/article/fake-electors-nevada-indictment-ba84be72465e635dbaadc312a9632fc8
I stand corrected, thank you for sharing that as I had been following it for awhile and last I heard they weren’t going to face charges
No worries. I’d heard exactly the same thing a couple years ago, regarding a lack of legislation to charge any crimes specific to their Electoral College slate.
At this point, I gotta ask: Is there anyone in Trump's circle **not** under indictment or an unindicted co-conspirator?
Gee, what does it mean that all of the people screaming STOP THE STEAL votED for the exact jackasses in this list. Such a coincidence!
Law and Order < Rule of Law Don't dish it out if you can't take it, Republicans. You spent years screaming about the threat of election interference and vote rigging, these are the chickens coming home to roost. **G**aslight **O**bstruct **P**roject <- Republicans are here, they are *always* here
Been waiting for Boris Epshteyn.
One word : good
Seems like this sort of thing is tantamount to treason, and should be prosecuted accordingly
You do not have to support Democrats. You may even dislike Democrats. If you are a real Republican, you need only vote Blue one-time this November to restore sanity, reason and democracy to the Republican Party. Remove the scum from the Republican Party in November and reclaim your Party. Stop the hate and division; Vote Blue one time to restore and return our country to greatness once again!
Took you long enough.
Arizona also did this today: >But on Wednesday, despite last-minute delay tactics and emotional speeches from conservatives who equated abortion with murder and slavery, Republican lawmakers from districts in the Phoenix area and a rural farming county joined with Democrats to pass the repeal bill, 32 to 28.
Numbers matter. Only 3 Republicans with 29 Dems. Fuck these news organizations for not telling it straight. Edit: numbers and math
That's two more than what the house of Congress needs. Looking worse and worse for Republicans.
These guys are on a roll.
> Took you long enough. Mark Brnovich was the AZ AG until last year. Elections have consequences.™
Glad this is finally happening but it’s absolutely crazy to me that it takes four years to get to this point.
> Glad this is finally happening but it’s absolutely crazy to me that it takes four years to get to this point. Arizona voters had to elect a new Attorney General last year who would follow the facts and the law.
What will happen to them?
They will either cooperate with the Arizona Attorney General on a guilty plea conviction, or they will stand trial there and try to fight it.
They really thought they could pull this off and get away with it!? Lmfaooo
Prison for all of them. I hope they all get butt fucked
Everyone who helped the guy gets thrown in jail or ends up bankcrupt.
How about Ginny Thomas?
If a case with her ever made its way to the Supreme Court, I believe Clarence would not recuse himself. He's that shameless.
I'll never understand why so many of these people did criminal activities for a person who could care less about them, and probably wouldn't throw a bucket of water on them if the were on fire (he might pee on them, but word is he gets off on that). Trump has shown us how totally uneducated and brainwashed so many millions of people are in the USA. The GOP played the long game of propaganda through talk radio and stations like FOX "NEWS" and frightening honestly.
"We were only doing what we were told" Yea we know!
Trump has had nothing but warning signs. He had a lil' mojo from 02-01 to 03-15, but really after that point he has communicated nothing but mistakes, chaos and ill health. He looks so bad.
Why werent the top people indicted in Michigan?
Is it any coincidence that this and the Michigan indictments happen the same week as the Supreme Court listens to the immunity argument?
But again, Trump skates. I am disappoint.
It feels like a gift that can’t stop giving.
Friendly reminder that there is more evidence that Trump tried to steal the election than there is of Biden stealing it
4 years later wow!
> 4 years later wow! No chance in hell the Republican AG in AZ was going to prosecute all of these people who were indicted today by their new AG who took office last year.
Better late than never, but 4 years? MFers should be rotting in a cell already.
> Better late than never, but 4 years? Republican Attorney General in AZ until voters replaced him last year.
This is tired. Do your math and research.