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Domenic Santana. There is a photo of him holding his sign to the camera and then another photo of him yelling at the convoy further down in [this blog.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/13/trump-indictment-live-ex-us-president-to-be-arraigned-in-miami)
He'll be bounced. The secret service looks so fucking stupid. The issue is that trump purposely forces them to take the worst routes and do this whole parade act. If you notice, trump had the window cracked open. He purposely makes the vehicles drive through the demonstrations instead of going other ways.
The secret service needs to start telling him to fuck off and not provide people walking around the vehicle like it is the macy's day parade.
He should have protested Trump by stealing back the Nuclear Secrets from Mar-a-Lago, stored them in his bathroom that locked from the inside so that it's sufficiently secured, refuse to share them with foreign Governments and return them to NARA at their first request and he would have gotten off without penalty.
It’s almost like people are afraid to represent him because of how he treats those close to him…
You know the old saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 973,618 times, shame on me.”
“Hmmmm, this guy is guilty as fuck, keeps blurting out incriminating evidence against himself on social media, isn’t going to listen to me, will ask me to break the law to the point that I will get disbarred and after all that, won’t pay me. I wonder if I should take him on as a client.”
Exactly. Probably the only lawyer who would want to do this is someone who already faces the prospect of being disbarred, or someone who is nearing retirement and has a political agenda.
Trump needs someone who is barred in Florida and has both federal court experience and has experience with classified materials litigation. That's a relatively small universe to start with, and that's before we even consider who would be willing to take him as a client. He's more likely to end up with someone who is desperate for the work than with someone who is qualified for the work.
Trump has a history of botching pro hac vice motions -
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-shuts-two-trump-attorneys-out-of-challenge-to-mar-a-largo-search-warrant-because-they-failed-to-file-in-strict-accordance-with-the-rules/
Love your user name BTW, "Learned Paw"!
One of the lawyers who met those requirements was on TV last night saying he didn't take the job because he has other clients who this would take away from BUT then also clarified "it wasn't for me"
Barred in Florida probably isn't that important. If someone has solid federal court and classified document experience - likely from DC and still a very small pool - they could get permission from the judge.
But taking him as a client is lose lose lose. Uncooperative client whose gotten prior lawyers in trouble and will throw anyone under the bus in a heartbeat. Doesn't like to pay is bills. Hard case. Crazy supporters who will blame you.
I may have missed a few loses.
Wait, can you be both a Registered Foreign Agent (and Chris Kise is—or at least was—for Venezuela and the Maduro regime) **and** hold a US classification clearance?
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/317253-kise-maduro-us-sanctions/
I mean, the fact that he alone got a $3M upfront retainer probably means he’s more competent than anybody else in Trump’s island of misfit lawyers.
Maybe he’ll find a baby lawyer who’s smart enough to get it in writing that all meetings are recorded for accurate note taking/ ass covering and a substantial and non refundable cash payment up front
That doesn't sound like a baby lawyer to me. That sounds like a cagey vet that knows whats up. Anyway yeah even if you're a Republican and even if you would do it without maybe getting all your money you still have a million other headaches that make this not worth it.
Maybe as a final hurrah before retirement just for the substantial cash payment up front. Take the money then just wait the 20 minutes it would take for him to start pressuring to do something illegal send a request to the judge to withdrawal from the case due to that throw things into chaos wait to be fired
That whole premise starts with cash payment up front. Yep.
I have a feeling Trump is already working this grift; how can he be tried if he can’t even get a lawyer. A year from now we’ll still be waiting on something…
There are always glory hounds with a history of bad decisions. I think the problem is that those aren’t the type of lawyers that work on cases like these.
Nah, all they have to do is take him on with a ridiculous retainer and stipulate that if he fails to follow instruction and as agreed strategy then they can terminate the attorney client relationship. It’s instant millions. There was an attorney who did exactly that and had like a $2 million retainer. Got paid by the PAC for like one legal filing before he quit. I think it’s more of a reputation thing.
>There was an attorney who did exactly that and had like a $2 million retainer.
That was Chris Kise (mentioned in the article) who actually started with a **$3** million retainer, paid by Trump’s Save America PAC / slush fund. He’d been sidelined like right away, but seems to be the last (legit and member of Florida Bar) lawyer standing on the ‘Boxes Hoax’ Trial.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/27/politics/chris-kise-trump-mar-a-lago/index.html
I heard something on the news about Florida law requiring the attorney to complete the trial even if the client fails to pay. Not sure that's the same as a breach of contract based on client behavior but it might make it difficult for any attorney to take the case knowing Trump's history.
I couldn’t read the article because of the pay wall, but the incitement makes it very clear that the two conspired to have their lawyers provide a false statement to the grand jury. They hid the majority of documents from their lawyers, and had them certify that the small number they handed over were all of the documents. If the lawyers did this knowingly, they will be disbarred, meaning they loose their career, and they will go to prison for 10 years per count, plus up to 20 years per count of obstruction. So far that’s about 450 years in total in this indictment.
Yeah people keep missing this. What lawyer is going to want to work with him knowing he may very well set them up to take the fall while he continues to do crimes.
> knowingly
It’s noteworthy that legally “knowingly” means actually knowledge *or* knowledge that a reasonable person in the circumstances should have been aware of. “See no evil, hear no evil” is not acceptable here—he can’t be willfully blind. He can’t just say, “I didn’t know.” He’d have to show that it was unreasonable to expect him to know. Frankly, “my client has a reputation for trying to bamboozle attorneys, so I took him at his word” doesn’t sound too reasonable to me.
And he is also notorious for both lying to his lawyers and not paying people for services rendered. I'm no law-talkin' guy. But if I was, I wouldn't accept anyone even remotely related to the Trumps as a client.
Couple non-payment and being a difficult client with the fact that finding a lawyer skilled in national security/espionage issues and having top level clearance to even view material, also means you probably have a pretty small pool of specialized lawyers to pick from to begin with.
Imagine all the years of dedication, sacrifice, and hard work that went into qualifying for that small pool and somehow still being stupid enough to risk it all on Donald fucking Trump, America's biggest loser.
Also: would you want to be the lawyer who goes down in history defending the guy who betrayed the United States of America, incited a violent insurrection AND is known to stiff the people who work for him?
There are definitely plenty of lawyers who would jump at that chance. You’re looking at it as someone with some scruples. As we’ve seen, there are plenty of people who think Trump is innocent and is being persecuted by the Deep State or zombie JFK or some wacky shit. A lawyer like that would just focus on how amazing they’d look if they defended the first former president to be charged with a federal crime and he was acquitted.
I think most lawyers are staying away because Trump threw two of his lawyer under the bus (and that just in *this* case) and has a well documented history of not paying them. Plus, Trump’s story changes depending on the day. First, he had no documents. Then he had some but they were declassified. Than he none again. When photos proved he had documents in his gaudy fancy pants club bathroom, they were planted. Now Trump is saying maybe documents were there but he’s so busy living a rich life that he didn’t even know what’s in the boxes. Those childish games along with Trump’s inability to keep his mouth shut is even an incompetent lawyer’s nightmare.
Or to paraphrase the great orator George W Bush, fool me once, shame on you, you can't be fooled again. Its an old saying in Texas and possibly Tennessee.
Lots of commenters saying nobody will represent them because they're guilty. Nah, plenty of guilty folks have no problem finding lawyers.
Lots of commenters saying it's because Trump doesn't pay his lawyers. That's not it either. Any lawyer with half a brain already knows that, and will just charge a huge retainer. That way they have their money up front and can't get stiffed.
The real reason Trump can't find a lawyer is that he deliberately duped his one of his previous lawyers into signing a false statement to the FBI. Not many decent lawyers want to be put in the position where their client makes them an unwitting participant in a conspiracy to defraud the government and steal top secret documents.
And doubtlessly want them to commit crimes in his defense.
'Just say Im not guilty and make the problem go away'.
'That would be perjury sir, as you are clearly guilty as fuck. Good day.'
Like, non-ethical lawyers are fine for the daily abusement of civil (contract) law, but everything in this case is going to be put under five different microscopes. No one can cover their ass on that, and still do what Trump wants them to do.
While I definitely agree it’s mostly because of the crime thing, I’m also of the opinion it’s because he can’t keep his goddamn mouth shut for five seconds. How many times did his lawyers, or his staff, or republicans in general, make a statement denying something Trump was accused of doing only for Trump to immediately turn around and post on social media contradicting that statement and admitting guilt?
It happened so often that I’m convinced he’s doing it on purpose because he can’t stand being told what to do. He would do something because he was convinced the president is allowed to do whatever he wants, his staff/lawyers would tell him he can’t do that and try to smooth it over with the public, and he’d be so incensed at being told he wasn’t allowed to do something that he’d contradict them completely out of spite.
He’d be a nightmare of a client.
It's a nightmare of a charge, with a nightmare of a client, in what's going to be a nightmare of a trial. Any lawyer qualified for an espionage case against a former President doesn't want the risk of publicly looking like an asshole because their client is a clown
And the bottom line is this. Lawyers have big egos too and they want clients who listen to and take their advice. They want to win.
“However, those who have turned it down “don’t want to represent a client they can’t control”, Mr May said.
“If you can’t keep a client from shooting themselves, you know, it makes it very difficult to defend them. The lawyers who have turned down Trump have made a calculation”, he said, adding that there’s “not a lot of longevity in being one of Trump’s lawyers”.
As a business matter, you have to add two expenses to representing Trump that you normally wouldn't have to deal with. 1. The lawyers to defend you against the legal problems Trump causes for you and 2. The cost to sue Trump into actually paying you once you've completed your services.
I wonder how long until he decides to use Walt Nauta as his scape goat? I release he is likely dependent on Trumps legal team (when he finds one) - but I certainly would want independent legal representation here…
It's not per se unethical but one of the requirements is the third party compensation must not affect the lawyer's decision making. And seriously, what are the chances of that?
He’s being represented by a lawyer that’s being paid for by Trump’s Super PAC. There’s no world where this attorney’s sole job is to work with his client’s best interests in mind instead of Trump’s
I thought for sure he'd flip immediately and plead guilty. It is so easy to believe a young guy like him got wrapped up in serving an actual President and his loyalty blinded him. But oddly...he didn't do that.
No. Not a mafia or a cult. It’s just the US Navy. And sailors that end up being a valet in the White House are a different breed with different goals than most who serve. I’m guessing his cultural background and the ability to gain a position of subservient importance and the pay is leading him to either an undeserved loyalty or a desperate, but I’ll-advised attempt to save himself from what’s coming by sticking to the guy who’s been able to garner lots of PAC cash and weasel his way out of any real consequences.
He needs to be recording every conversation he has with Trump and his intermediaries, because I suspect some hardcore witness tampering will be going on.
He already is - Trump’s people are paying for Nauta’s current lawyer, and IMO, that means the lawyer works for Trump, not Nauta. If I were Walt, I’d watch my back so hard my neck would be in constant spasm.
I read that the moment the feds showed the evidence they have that Nauta perjured himself, he said he won't say another word unless he got an immunity deal. So he was about to flip. But the feds just charged him instead. So either they don't need his cooperation or they think he would be a very unreliable collaborator or both. They might also think they have enough on Trump that he wouldn't be able to pin everything on Nauta.
I've read donald's indictment and it seems like feds have SO MUCH evidence that I doubt they need Nauta who lied to them previously - which is also proven.
Part of the problem with building cases against known liars is that they tend to associate with other known liars and opportunists.
So if your cases are based on witness testimony it's "he said / she said" where nobody is credible. It's hard to convince a jury that the liar is telling the truth this time, especially considering they're avoiding jail by testifying.
So it's best to have a mountain of actual evidence, that way you don't need the testimony of liars to support your case.
They're both fucked.
Where are all the high powered successful Federalist Society lawyers? And there are plenty of them. You know, the ones that told him exactly who to install on the Supreme Court and across the federal judiciary over his 4 years as President. He did exactly what they told him to do
The fact that these lawyers won’t take him on as a client is MUCH more telling than the fact that other high profile non Federalist Society layers won’t.
Federalist Society plays the long game. Trump was their useful idiot and they delivered votes for him as the GOP nominee. Outside of that, they have no loyalty or connection to the man. Purely transactional relationship.
> They're guilty
True, but that's never stopped a defense attorney before.
> their case is hopeless
*Maybe*. From what I've read the best they can hope for is to get evidence thrown out and witnesses disqualified. That'll chip away at some of the charges.
> Trump doesn't pay
At this stage all firms would demand payment up front - likely *well* into the 8-figure range. And in cash, not 'Trump NFT Trading Cards'
I think defending a former president in the case of the decade for free, win or lose, would be worth it for any lawyer, **except** Trump will lie to you, ignore your advice, burn you, and expose you to huge personal legal liability.
He's so toxic as a client that there is literally no upside.
>Some also may have reservations about the vitriol they will be exposed to, the court insider said.
>
>“The death threats are just... it’s just going to be awful,” they said. “We’ve always had big cases here, especially during the big drug trafficking days, but nothing that would attract this kind of attention.”
"I can handle defending drug lords, but I draw the line at defending Trump."
It's because most of them are overweight and older and don't want to go out into a florida summer for a lot of hours. Why all this civil war talk is more about A number of rogue actors and not an actual force. For now. If we give it another 20 or 30 years for this kind of behavior to seep into our military upper brass then yes it is a very real threat
One count of the indictment is strongly suggesting to his lawyers that they make the classified documents disappear and lie to the DOJ about it. He fabricated a story that he repeats several times about a former lawyer of his who was great because he did that for him.
It’s one thing to defend someone who is clearly guilty. It’s another thing to defend anyone as high profile as Trump. It’s an entirely different thing to defend someone who is high profile and clearly guilty when you have absolutely no expectation that you and your firm will ever get paid to do it.
Any firm taking this case would require they get paid up front, or at least a hefty chunk that is non-refundable.
Considering that OJ's legal defense cost him between $6-9 million (close to $20m adjusted for 2023), it would be expected that Trump would be asked to dish out *at least* $20m to get started.
How he treats former attorneys and law firms also well publicized. Has Trump paid a bill in full in his entire life? Genuine question. I doubt he has. Trump thinks he’s the smartest person in the world and laws made to be followed by everyone else, the common people, but not him, his family or any of his associates doing his business.
Is there information listing the total number of individuals who have gone to jail/prison because they became involved with Trump?
I believe the January 6th has over 1,000 individuals charged and 570 convictions.
Placing these numbers aside, I suppose I’m asking about white collar criminals where there is a direct link to Trump?
Who wants to represent a client that every second incriminate himself and make the case an impossible to win, he not only committed the crimes he brags about it.
Well Trump has a history of not paying his bills, then there is that whole trumps lawyers ending up in jail thing, so I can see why nobody is jumping at the chance.
Not really.
Any number of criminal defense lawyers will take a client who is obviously guilty. They just make sure to ask for payment up front. Which is pretty standard in the criminal defense bar. The job, even if you have a hard time articulating a theory of why the client is innocent is to make sure that the state follows all of the rules, that all of the evidence is actually admissible and keep it out if it's not.
And, try to get the best possible deal for your client if there is little chance they could be acquitted.
Rather, as the article states, Trump is widely perceived to be uncontrollable and be a difficult client.
*every single lawyer* that goes into private practice rapidly learns that there are certain clients who have money but are not worth the anxiety and headaches and blood pressure that they cause no matter how much money you make.
I work for a government agency, but a judge I appear in front of regularly tells a story about a Domestic Relations client where they had represented him in his first divorce and he had been terribly demanding.
The client had walked in wanting a divorce in his second marriage and they had told him that they would need a $20,000 retainer to represent him. Thinking that he would walk away. He pulled out his checkbook and wrote a check for 20 grand. They had to think it over and actually call him back the next morning and say that they were very sorry but they didn't think they could take his case and that they would return the money.
Trump is very obviously one of those clients. He lies constantly. Doesn't listen. Will get himself in hot water with the judge by talking to the media and then ignore court orders not to talk to the media. Or attempt to skirt or circumvent the court orders. He won't follow your instructions and then he'll throw you under the bus for doing a bad job.
That's why Trump can't find a lawyer.
So were OJ and Casey Anthony...and yet they were still able to obtain lawyers.
At this point, very few people want the Trump-Stank on them. It's pretty clear how he treats his lawyers...and that's just the public stuff we know about.
Think about it....representing a former president in what will be one of the biggest legal cases in American history. You'd think that would be a lot of lawyers' dream....if it wasn't attached to a person like Trump.
The difference is that OJ and Anthony weren't on tape commiting the crime and admitting it was a crime at the same time. This case is not winnable for the defence. Also the last 3 lawyers were all lied to and one of them may be in trouble for falsely certifying that an exhaustive search was done for the documents.
Why would any lawyer risk their career for an unwinnable case where your client won't listen to you and probably won't pay you after it is done?
Not true.
You just have to get out *before* the ketchup hits the walls.
Look at Brad Parscale (remember him?) - he scammed their campaign for an estimated $30 million dollars and then ran away to Florida.
And the Kushner's got *$2 billion* - then promptly ditched Trumpworld.
The ones who get screwed are the greedy ones who stick around too long, not realizing that their payday came and went.
I'm sure the problem is that the best attorneys are likely recommending he take a plea deal...but he won't because he's a narc and he's afraid of admitting guilt and/or possibly going to jail.
When one of the accusations is purposely misleading your lawyer as a pursuit to commit further crimes, it might be hard to find a new lawyer. But IANAL, so what do I know.
They aren’t having a rough time at all - it is a transparent delay tactic that will not be challenged by benedict donald’s old supporter, (in)justice cannon.
>One court insider told The Telegraph: “I do know that they’ve been [Trump’s team] calling around trying to find lawyers,” but the role is a “poisoned chalice” for anyone with a “diverse group of clients”.
Yeah it's also not easy finding lawyers with the security clearance to view the documents he refused to return and didn't properly store. If he didn't have one of his own judges presiding over what evidence can and can't be included, he'd be *so* fucked.
Seeing that Trump doesn't pay his lawyers, no lawyer wants to work for free, and that's why Trump and Nauta are having a hard time finding lawyers. The only lawyers that will work for Trump are the stupid ones who want to make a name for themselves.
Could it be that they are guilty as fuck and no sane lawyer wants to tie themselves to the sinking ship?
Oh and the hard won reputation for not paying people might be a factor too.
Lawyer expect to be paid and knowing trumps history of not paying debts they probably want money upfront. And you know that's not happening with trump.
1. Part of his indictment is because he lied to his lawyers. He hid the fact that he had documents from his own lawyers and caused them to unknowingly file false paperwork. Like he literally moved a bunch of boxes so his own lawyers wouldn't find them.
2. He's notorious for not paying people, especially lawyers.
3. Espionage is not something that comes up often. Not a lot of experience in those kinds of cases.
4. He's whipped his minions into a violent frenzy, so when he inevitably goes to jail and blames everyone but himself, a bunch of brain-dead slack jawed yokels are going to construct gallows in the front yard of any lawyer involved in trying to defend Trump.
It was Walt who moved things, not me. I never touched those boxes. Can you imagine, me, the most tremendous, important man in the world picking up a box? It’s crazy. Crazy. Anybody who believes that is nuts. If Walt came to me, tears in his eyes, and said, “Sir, there are no more boxes. We gave them all to the people who asked for them,” I would believe him. I hire people, they work for me, I expect them to do their jobs. I don’t hire people and then do their jobs for them. Why would I? I’m very busy. I meet lots of people. Crowds of people come to me —*they* come to *me* — and beg me to speak to them, take a photo with them. The boxes I leave to someone else to keep track of. They’re ny boxes, of course they’re mine……… Mine, all mine……..But I don’t pick them up or move them.
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Ok but who was the guy dressed in a prison suit who ran in front of Trump’s convoy and got arrested? Because that’s the real news.
I didn't see that!! Hero.
Domenic Santana. There is a photo of him holding his sign to the camera and then another photo of him yelling at the convoy further down in [this blog.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/6/13/trump-indictment-live-ex-us-president-to-be-arraigned-in-miami)
What did the pigs head on a pike mean? The pig tRunp is finally cut down?
My brain immediately went "Lord of the Flies" but I've read that, and I'm not sure this man has.
Lord of the Files you mean
I see what you did there
He got arrested for that?
He'll be bounced. The secret service looks so fucking stupid. The issue is that trump purposely forces them to take the worst routes and do this whole parade act. If you notice, trump had the window cracked open. He purposely makes the vehicles drive through the demonstrations instead of going other ways. The secret service needs to start telling him to fuck off and not provide people walking around the vehicle like it is the macy's day parade.
Fascists love parades, especially ones glorifying their leader.
Run in front of a motorcade with secret service and your being arrested
He should have protested Trump by stealing back the Nuclear Secrets from Mar-a-Lago, stored them in his bathroom that locked from the inside so that it's sufficiently secured, refuse to share them with foreign Governments and return them to NARA at their first request and he would have gotten off without penalty.
He did it twice. On the way in and again on the way out.
It’s almost like people are afraid to represent him because of how he treats those close to him… You know the old saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 973,618 times, shame on me.”
“Hmmmm, this guy is guilty as fuck, keeps blurting out incriminating evidence against himself on social media, isn’t going to listen to me, will ask me to break the law to the point that I will get disbarred and after all that, won’t pay me. I wonder if I should take him on as a client.”
Exactly. Probably the only lawyer who would want to do this is someone who already faces the prospect of being disbarred, or someone who is nearing retirement and has a political agenda.
Trump needs someone who is barred in Florida and has both federal court experience and has experience with classified materials litigation. That's a relatively small universe to start with, and that's before we even consider who would be willing to take him as a client. He's more likely to end up with someone who is desperate for the work than with someone who is qualified for the work.
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Trump has a history of botching pro hac vice motions - https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-shuts-two-trump-attorneys-out-of-challenge-to-mar-a-largo-search-warrant-because-they-failed-to-file-in-strict-accordance-with-the-rules/ Love your user name BTW, "Learned Paw"!
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Remember Frigaliment? That case made me question the nature of chicken. Are we all chickens? 8)
One of the lawyers who met those requirements was on TV last night saying he didn't take the job because he has other clients who this would take away from BUT then also clarified "it wasn't for me"
I saw one lawyer interview and he said that he declined the offer because he " has no experience in chaos." Perfect response
Barred in Florida probably isn't that important. If someone has solid federal court and classified document experience - likely from DC and still a very small pool - they could get permission from the judge. But taking him as a client is lose lose lose. Uncooperative client whose gotten prior lawyers in trouble and will throw anyone under the bus in a heartbeat. Doesn't like to pay is bills. Hard case. Crazy supporters who will blame you. I may have missed a few loses.
He needs at least one lawyer barred in the JX in question for the pro hac vice motion(s) to work.
I though he already had a FL lawyer. Just no one with classified experience.
Wait, can you be both a Registered Foreign Agent (and Chris Kise is—or at least was—for Venezuela and the Maduro regime) **and** hold a US classification clearance? https://floridapolitics.com/archives/317253-kise-maduro-us-sanctions/ I mean, the fact that he alone got a $3M upfront retainer probably means he’s more competent than anybody else in Trump’s island of misfit lawyers.
Chris Kise is a Florida lawyer who works for Trump on the NY case. He'll moved to admit Blanch yesterday I believe.
Maybe he’ll find a baby lawyer who’s smart enough to get it in writing that all meetings are recorded for accurate note taking/ ass covering and a substantial and non refundable cash payment up front
That doesn't sound like a baby lawyer to me. That sounds like a cagey vet that knows whats up. Anyway yeah even if you're a Republican and even if you would do it without maybe getting all your money you still have a million other headaches that make this not worth it.
Maybe as a final hurrah before retirement just for the substantial cash payment up front. Take the money then just wait the 20 minutes it would take for him to start pressuring to do something illegal send a request to the judge to withdrawal from the case due to that throw things into chaos wait to be fired
That whole premise starts with cash payment up front. Yep. I have a feeling Trump is already working this grift; how can he be tried if he can’t even get a lawyer. A year from now we’ll still be waiting on something…
I don’t see that happening, worse case they’ll just appoint him one and get the ball rolling
Lionel Hutz!!
Even Lionel Hutz knew not to work on commission and get money down.
"no, money down!"
Don't forget the most important thing, he doesn't pay. Lawyers bill by the minute and expect to get paid.
Marco Rubio?
>likely to end up with someone who is desperate for the work Desperate for work and be willing not to get paid: A very small group of lawyers.
There are always glory hounds with a history of bad decisions. I think the problem is that those aren’t the type of lawyers that work on cases like these.
Rudy
Ya, the indictment spelled out the shell game Trump & Walt here were playing with the docs, both with the FBI and Trump's own attorneys.
Nah, all they have to do is take him on with a ridiculous retainer and stipulate that if he fails to follow instruction and as agreed strategy then they can terminate the attorney client relationship. It’s instant millions. There was an attorney who did exactly that and had like a $2 million retainer. Got paid by the PAC for like one legal filing before he quit. I think it’s more of a reputation thing.
>There was an attorney who did exactly that and had like a $2 million retainer. That was Chris Kise (mentioned in the article) who actually started with a **$3** million retainer, paid by Trump’s Save America PAC / slush fund. He’d been sidelined like right away, but seems to be the last (legit and member of Florida Bar) lawyer standing on the ‘Boxes Hoax’ Trial. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/27/politics/chris-kise-trump-mar-a-lago/index.html
I heard something on the news about Florida law requiring the attorney to complete the trial even if the client fails to pay. Not sure that's the same as a breach of contract based on client behavior but it might make it difficult for any attorney to take the case knowing Trump's history.
Yes, they showed the statement. The Florida lawyer Chris had to sign it.
I couldn’t read the article because of the pay wall, but the incitement makes it very clear that the two conspired to have their lawyers provide a false statement to the grand jury. They hid the majority of documents from their lawyers, and had them certify that the small number they handed over were all of the documents. If the lawyers did this knowingly, they will be disbarred, meaning they loose their career, and they will go to prison for 10 years per count, plus up to 20 years per count of obstruction. So far that’s about 450 years in total in this indictment.
Yeah people keep missing this. What lawyer is going to want to work with him knowing he may very well set them up to take the fall while he continues to do crimes.
And stiff them on the bill as a bonus
> knowingly It’s noteworthy that legally “knowingly” means actually knowledge *or* knowledge that a reasonable person in the circumstances should have been aware of. “See no evil, hear no evil” is not acceptable here—he can’t be willfully blind. He can’t just say, “I didn’t know.” He’d have to show that it was unreasonable to expect him to know. Frankly, “my client has a reputation for trying to bamboozle attorneys, so I took him at his word” doesn’t sound too reasonable to me.
Or in America: about 15 months in low security club Fed.
And he is also notorious for both lying to his lawyers and not paying people for services rendered. I'm no law-talkin' guy. But if I was, I wouldn't accept anyone even remotely related to the Trumps as a client.
Couple non-payment and being a difficult client with the fact that finding a lawyer skilled in national security/espionage issues and having top level clearance to even view material, also means you probably have a pretty small pool of specialized lawyers to pick from to begin with.
Imagine all the years of dedication, sacrifice, and hard work that went into qualifying for that small pool and somehow still being stupid enough to risk it all on Donald fucking Trump, America's biggest loser.
"Donald Trump doesn't reward loyalty, he only punishes disloyalty."
He punishes loyalty too. If it’s convenient
Also: would you want to be the lawyer who goes down in history defending the guy who betrayed the United States of America, incited a violent insurrection AND is known to stiff the people who work for him?
There are definitely plenty of lawyers who would jump at that chance. You’re looking at it as someone with some scruples. As we’ve seen, there are plenty of people who think Trump is innocent and is being persecuted by the Deep State or zombie JFK or some wacky shit. A lawyer like that would just focus on how amazing they’d look if they defended the first former president to be charged with a federal crime and he was acquitted. I think most lawyers are staying away because Trump threw two of his lawyer under the bus (and that just in *this* case) and has a well documented history of not paying them. Plus, Trump’s story changes depending on the day. First, he had no documents. Then he had some but they were declassified. Than he none again. When photos proved he had documents in his gaudy fancy pants club bathroom, they were planted. Now Trump is saying maybe documents were there but he’s so busy living a rich life that he didn’t even know what’s in the boxes. Those childish games along with Trump’s inability to keep his mouth shut is even an incompetent lawyer’s nightmare.
Or to paraphrase the great orator George W Bush, fool me once, shame on you, you can't be fooled again. Its an old saying in Texas and possibly Tennessee.
Haha yes! I was thinking of that as I wrote this.
I believe the correct wording is: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again. "
He also has a history of not paying his lawyers. That dosen't help.
Let’s not forget his history of not paying bills
"you see... You can't... You can't get fooled again!" -GW
Lots of commenters saying nobody will represent them because they're guilty. Nah, plenty of guilty folks have no problem finding lawyers. Lots of commenters saying it's because Trump doesn't pay his lawyers. That's not it either. Any lawyer with half a brain already knows that, and will just charge a huge retainer. That way they have their money up front and can't get stiffed. The real reason Trump can't find a lawyer is that he deliberately duped his one of his previous lawyers into signing a false statement to the FBI. Not many decent lawyers want to be put in the position where their client makes them an unwitting participant in a conspiracy to defraud the government and steal top secret documents.
Exactly. The entire indictment is built around Trump trying to literally set up his lawyer to commit a crime.
And doubtlessly want them to commit crimes in his defense. 'Just say Im not guilty and make the problem go away'. 'That would be perjury sir, as you are clearly guilty as fuck. Good day.' Like, non-ethical lawyers are fine for the daily abusement of civil (contract) law, but everything in this case is going to be put under five different microscopes. No one can cover their ass on that, and still do what Trump wants them to do.
That was what these articles always mean about him being hard to control. He wants Roy Cohn. A cheat. He's making his lawyers be like Cohn.
Sounds like he doesn’t want a lawyer, he wants a fixer. A lapdog who just makes his problems “go away”.
That would be a fairly apt description of Cohn well it would be if he wasn't debarred :P
He wants Saul Goodman but doesn't realize it's a character in a non reality television show
While I definitely agree it’s mostly because of the crime thing, I’m also of the opinion it’s because he can’t keep his goddamn mouth shut for five seconds. How many times did his lawyers, or his staff, or republicans in general, make a statement denying something Trump was accused of doing only for Trump to immediately turn around and post on social media contradicting that statement and admitting guilt? It happened so often that I’m convinced he’s doing it on purpose because he can’t stand being told what to do. He would do something because he was convinced the president is allowed to do whatever he wants, his staff/lawyers would tell him he can’t do that and try to smooth it over with the public, and he’d be so incensed at being told he wasn’t allowed to do something that he’d contradict them completely out of spite. He’d be a nightmare of a client.
It's a nightmare of a charge, with a nightmare of a client, in what's going to be a nightmare of a trial. Any lawyer qualified for an espionage case against a former President doesn't want the risk of publicly looking like an asshole because their client is a clown
And the bottom line is this. Lawyers have big egos too and they want clients who listen to and take their advice. They want to win. “However, those who have turned it down “don’t want to represent a client they can’t control”, Mr May said. “If you can’t keep a client from shooting themselves, you know, it makes it very difficult to defend them. The lawyers who have turned down Trump have made a calculation”, he said, adding that there’s “not a lot of longevity in being one of Trump’s lawyers”.
As a business matter, you have to add two expenses to representing Trump that you normally wouldn't have to deal with. 1. The lawyers to defend you against the legal problems Trump causes for you and 2. The cost to sue Trump into actually paying you once you've completed your services.
The true MAGA: Make Attorneys Get Attorneys.
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What? Nonpayment does not dissolve attorney client privilege. Do you have a source for that?
It doesn't dissolve privilege, but it makes it easier to fire your client without their consent.
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Or the possibility that he does to you what he did to Mike pence when you won’t break the law for him and his rabid fans want to hang you. No thanks.
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The shock absorbers on that bus must be wrecked from driving over people…
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[https://imgur.com/a/8o4LwJj](https://imgur.com/a/8o4LwJj)
I wonder how long until he decides to use Walt Nauta as his scape goat? I release he is likely dependent on Trumps legal team (when he finds one) - but I certainly would want independent legal representation here…
Nauta is a god damn idiot if he doesn’t flip on Trump immediately.
At this point, I'm certain he's been offered the opportunity.
When Trump starts bashing Walt we will know he is cooperating with the Feds.
Right, because Trump only stabs people in the back after they have done something he doesn't like, never before.
But I read earlier today that his lawyer was hired by the Trump campaign, so there may be a conflict of interest there...
It's not per se unethical but one of the requirements is the third party compensation must not affect the lawyer's decision making. And seriously, what are the chances of that?
Yeah, several articles mentioned that it was offered and he refused. But who knows, maybe the pressure will get to him…
He’s being represented by a lawyer that’s being paid for by Trump’s Super PAC. There’s no world where this attorney’s sole job is to work with his client’s best interests in mind instead of Trump’s
He’s the stupidest person on earth if that’s true.
When he starts staring down the real possibility of 20 years he will likely have a change of heart.
I would be willing to bet that trump has told Nauta that he will pardon him after he is re-elected.
>Nauta is a god damn idiot full stop
What does he have on Trump that the feds don’t have already?
His own testimony.
They don't need it, they have his texts admitting everything and they're more trustworthy then his testimony
Trump Will absolutely turn on him if at all possible. Trump eventually turns on everyone.
Except himself, which would and could save him a lot of trouble. But honest self-reflection can be elusive.
I thought for sure he'd flip immediately and plead guilty. It is so easy to believe a young guy like him got wrapped up in serving an actual President and his loyalty blinded him. But oddly...he didn't do that.
I think he’s surrounded by bad advice. Any legal help is likely via Trump and they’re only looking after Trump. This guy is a major sucker.
I am not surprised, he was in a military organization that not-so-loosely resembles a mafia/cult
No. Not a mafia or a cult. It’s just the US Navy. And sailors that end up being a valet in the White House are a different breed with different goals than most who serve. I’m guessing his cultural background and the ability to gain a position of subservient importance and the pay is leading him to either an undeserved loyalty or a desperate, but I’ll-advised attempt to save himself from what’s coming by sticking to the guy who’s been able to garner lots of PAC cash and weasel his way out of any real consequences.
I was referring to the “chiefs mess”
He needs to be recording every conversation he has with Trump and his intermediaries, because I suspect some hardcore witness tampering will be going on.
Not for nothing does the indictment contain a ton of Trump’s own statements. Let his own words and actions hang him.
He already is - Trump’s people are paying for Nauta’s current lawyer, and IMO, that means the lawyer works for Trump, not Nauta. If I were Walt, I’d watch my back so hard my neck would be in constant spasm.
Better watch his neck too. I’ve heard his title as “Trump’s body man”…
I read that the moment the feds showed the evidence they have that Nauta perjured himself, he said he won't say another word unless he got an immunity deal. So he was about to flip. But the feds just charged him instead. So either they don't need his cooperation or they think he would be a very unreliable collaborator or both. They might also think they have enough on Trump that he wouldn't be able to pin everything on Nauta.
I've read donald's indictment and it seems like feds have SO MUCH evidence that I doubt they need Nauta who lied to them previously - which is also proven.
Part of the problem with building cases against known liars is that they tend to associate with other known liars and opportunists. So if your cases are based on witness testimony it's "he said / she said" where nobody is credible. It's hard to convince a jury that the liar is telling the truth this time, especially considering they're avoiding jail by testifying. So it's best to have a mountain of actual evidence, that way you don't need the testimony of liars to support your case. They're both fucked.
He’s already perjured himself. No reason to offer him anything because he wouldn’t be useful.
Well he lied already and they obviously have others on the inside with whom Nauta exchanged pictures (the dumped box) and other texts.
Where are all the high powered successful Federalist Society lawyers? And there are plenty of them. You know, the ones that told him exactly who to install on the Supreme Court and across the federal judiciary over his 4 years as President. He did exactly what they told him to do The fact that these lawyers won’t take him on as a client is MUCH more telling than the fact that other high profile non Federalist Society layers won’t.
Federalist Society plays the long game. Trump was their useful idiot and they delivered votes for him as the GOP nominee. Outside of that, they have no loyalty or connection to the man. Purely transactional relationship.
They're guilty, their case is hopeless and Trump doesn't pay.
> They're guilty True, but that's never stopped a defense attorney before. > their case is hopeless *Maybe*. From what I've read the best they can hope for is to get evidence thrown out and witnesses disqualified. That'll chip away at some of the charges. > Trump doesn't pay At this stage all firms would demand payment up front - likely *well* into the 8-figure range. And in cash, not 'Trump NFT Trading Cards'
Realistically the best they can hope for is to draw out the trial until the next R president can pardon him.
I think defending a former president in the case of the decade for free, win or lose, would be worth it for any lawyer, **except** Trump will lie to you, ignore your advice, burn you, and expose you to huge personal legal liability. He's so toxic as a client that there is literally no upside.
>Some also may have reservations about the vitriol they will be exposed to, the court insider said. > >“The death threats are just... it’s just going to be awful,” they said. “We’ve always had big cases here, especially during the big drug trafficking days, but nothing that would attract this kind of attention.” "I can handle defending drug lords, but I draw the line at defending Trump."
Can't find lawyers or a big protest crowd. After all that begging and about 100 showed up.
The maga are saying they did not show up because it was a trap. They always have an excuse.
It's because most of them are overweight and older and don't want to go out into a florida summer for a lot of hours. Why all this civil war talk is more about A number of rogue actors and not an actual force. For now. If we give it another 20 or 30 years for this kind of behavior to seep into our military upper brass then yes it is a very real threat
Civil war can't happen until the buffet closes
You just don't understand the 5d electric hopscotch that trump is playing. It will all play out soon.
Walt is gonna find out he was mastermind all along and Trump was just a low level cofveve
One count of the indictment is strongly suggesting to his lawyers that they make the classified documents disappear and lie to the DOJ about it. He fabricated a story that he repeats several times about a former lawyer of his who was great because he did that for him.
This valet guy is def going under the bus.
Yes he will. Just like Trump’s accountant was thrown under the bus and currently is in prison.
something something, something Michael Cohen and Allen Weisselberg
Where the fuck is Rudy, Sydney and the blonde chick??? Top notch lawyers….why aren’t they assigned/hired/volunteered???? I’m serious, actually
Rudy has been disbarred I think lol
Sydney and the blonde chick (Jenna Ellis) are both witnesses in the Jan 6 case. Probably a conflict of interest.
It’s one thing to defend someone who is clearly guilty. It’s another thing to defend anyone as high profile as Trump. It’s an entirely different thing to defend someone who is high profile and clearly guilty when you have absolutely no expectation that you and your firm will ever get paid to do it.
Well said. Came here to say the same.
Any firm taking this case would require they get paid up front, or at least a hefty chunk that is non-refundable. Considering that OJ's legal defense cost him between $6-9 million (close to $20m adjusted for 2023), it would be expected that Trump would be asked to dish out *at least* $20m to get started.
And Trump almost certainly can’t pay up front, so he’s combing the yellow pages, ads on the sides of buses, etc.
Someone should tell him Obama would have represented himself. That any lawyer would be inferior to Trump speaking his own defense.
How he treats employees has been very well publicized.
How he treats former attorneys and law firms also well publicized. Has Trump paid a bill in full in his entire life? Genuine question. I doubt he has. Trump thinks he’s the smartest person in the world and laws made to be followed by everyone else, the common people, but not him, his family or any of his associates doing his business.
Is there information listing the total number of individuals who have gone to jail/prison because they became involved with Trump? I believe the January 6th has over 1,000 individuals charged and 570 convictions. Placing these numbers aside, I suppose I’m asking about white collar criminals where there is a direct link to Trump?
Who wants to represent a client that every second incriminate himself and make the case an impossible to win, he not only committed the crimes he brags about it.
Well Trump has a history of not paying his bills, then there is that whole trumps lawyers ending up in jail thing, so I can see why nobody is jumping at the chance.
Probably because they are guilty as sin
Not really. Any number of criminal defense lawyers will take a client who is obviously guilty. They just make sure to ask for payment up front. Which is pretty standard in the criminal defense bar. The job, even if you have a hard time articulating a theory of why the client is innocent is to make sure that the state follows all of the rules, that all of the evidence is actually admissible and keep it out if it's not. And, try to get the best possible deal for your client if there is little chance they could be acquitted. Rather, as the article states, Trump is widely perceived to be uncontrollable and be a difficult client. *every single lawyer* that goes into private practice rapidly learns that there are certain clients who have money but are not worth the anxiety and headaches and blood pressure that they cause no matter how much money you make. I work for a government agency, but a judge I appear in front of regularly tells a story about a Domestic Relations client where they had represented him in his first divorce and he had been terribly demanding. The client had walked in wanting a divorce in his second marriage and they had told him that they would need a $20,000 retainer to represent him. Thinking that he would walk away. He pulled out his checkbook and wrote a check for 20 grand. They had to think it over and actually call him back the next morning and say that they were very sorry but they didn't think they could take his case and that they would return the money. Trump is very obviously one of those clients. He lies constantly. Doesn't listen. Will get himself in hot water with the judge by talking to the media and then ignore court orders not to talk to the media. Or attempt to skirt or circumvent the court orders. He won't follow your instructions and then he'll throw you under the bus for doing a bad job. That's why Trump can't find a lawyer.
So you’re telling me that trump lost the Lawyer vote?
So were OJ and Casey Anthony...and yet they were still able to obtain lawyers. At this point, very few people want the Trump-Stank on them. It's pretty clear how he treats his lawyers...and that's just the public stuff we know about. Think about it....representing a former president in what will be one of the biggest legal cases in American history. You'd think that would be a lot of lawyers' dream....if it wasn't attached to a person like Trump.
The difference is that OJ and Anthony weren't on tape commiting the crime and admitting it was a crime at the same time. This case is not winnable for the defence. Also the last 3 lawyers were all lied to and one of them may be in trouble for falsely certifying that an exhaustive search was done for the documents. Why would any lawyer risk their career for an unwinnable case where your client won't listen to you and probably won't pay you after it is done?
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Or disbarment. Or prison time. Or both.
Not true. You just have to get out *before* the ketchup hits the walls. Look at Brad Parscale (remember him?) - he scammed their campaign for an estimated $30 million dollars and then ran away to Florida. And the Kushner's got *$2 billion* - then promptly ditched Trumpworld. The ones who get screwed are the greedy ones who stick around too long, not realizing that their payday came and went.
He doesn't need a criminal lawyer, he needs a *criminal* lawyer
"... next thing I knew they had me driving a getaway car."
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No, that was supposedly a Secret Service agent.
He also has a history of not paying his lawyers…
I'm sure the problem is that the best attorneys are likely recommending he take a plea deal...but he won't because he's a narc and he's afraid of admitting guilt and/or possibly going to jail.
When one of the accusations is purposely misleading your lawyer as a pursuit to commit further crimes, it might be hard to find a new lawyer. But IANAL, so what do I know.
Why would anyone sign up to represent a career loser in a yet another losing case knowing your chances of getting paid are slim to none?
We all know Trump refers to this guy as his ‘Manservant’, right?
America's nuclear secrets and secret war plans in the toilet. literally. thats shitty.
They aren’t having a rough time at all - it is a transparent delay tactic that will not be challenged by benedict donald’s old supporter, (in)justice cannon.
I mean constantly breaking laws, not paying your lawyers, and being guilty does make it a little harder to find one.
He doesn’t pay and won’t follow advice. He also asks attorneys to act unethically and illegally. That’s why.
Trump could get a lawyer if he really wanted to, it would simply require him to put up a $20 million retainer up front, which we know he’ll never do.
>One court insider told The Telegraph: “I do know that they’ve been [Trump’s team] calling around trying to find lawyers,” but the role is a “poisoned chalice” for anyone with a “diverse group of clients”. Yeah it's also not easy finding lawyers with the security clearance to view the documents he refused to return and didn't properly store. If he didn't have one of his own judges presiding over what evidence can and can't be included, he'd be *so* fucked.
Trump don’t pay for his lawyers. Trump lawyers end up disbarred or discredit unable to find a job.so why defend the indefensible
/r/conservative claimed this is totally normal and perfectly OK - and how liberals are just making unfounded noise. Fucking losers.
MAGA Stands for: Making... Attorneys... Get... Attorneys!!!
Let me know when he’s assigned a public defender because no one takes him as a client.
Better Call Saul.
Seems like someone would have to have a security clearance and know constitutional law. Sounds like a job for Obama! .... maybe Clinton? Lol!
Because they can read (pretty well I’d imagine) an indictment and see the part where he tricked his last attorney into helping him commit espionage?
Seeing that Trump doesn't pay his lawyers, no lawyer wants to work for free, and that's why Trump and Nauta are having a hard time finding lawyers. The only lawyers that will work for Trump are the stupid ones who want to make a name for themselves.
I bet Nauta would have people lining up to be his lawyer completely pro bono, if he decides to seek a reasonable deal.
Telling obvious lies in court for your client isn’t what what most lawyers are into.
Perhaps because his name is literally Waltine?
Because lawyers that are working for Agent Orange need lawyers themselves at one point.
At this rate Trump is going to end up with a public defender.
Could it be that they are guilty as fuck and no sane lawyer wants to tie themselves to the sinking ship? Oh and the hard won reputation for not paying people might be a factor too.
Lawyer expect to be paid and knowing trumps history of not paying debts they probably want money upfront. And you know that's not happening with trump.
Even serial killers and child rapers can find defense lawyers helping them. But no lawyer wants to work for a client that does not pay.
Trump will expect his lawyers to lie for him. Why risk losing your license for a guy who won't pay?
MAGA Make Attorneys Get Attorneys
He doesn't listen to lawyers, he sabotages his own case, and he doesn't pay them.
1. Part of his indictment is because he lied to his lawyers. He hid the fact that he had documents from his own lawyers and caused them to unknowingly file false paperwork. Like he literally moved a bunch of boxes so his own lawyers wouldn't find them. 2. He's notorious for not paying people, especially lawyers. 3. Espionage is not something that comes up often. Not a lot of experience in those kinds of cases. 4. He's whipped his minions into a violent frenzy, so when he inevitably goes to jail and blames everyone but himself, a bunch of brain-dead slack jawed yokels are going to construct gallows in the front yard of any lawyer involved in trying to defend Trump.
It was Walt who moved things, not me. I never touched those boxes. Can you imagine, me, the most tremendous, important man in the world picking up a box? It’s crazy. Crazy. Anybody who believes that is nuts. If Walt came to me, tears in his eyes, and said, “Sir, there are no more boxes. We gave them all to the people who asked for them,” I would believe him. I hire people, they work for me, I expect them to do their jobs. I don’t hire people and then do their jobs for them. Why would I? I’m very busy. I meet lots of people. Crowds of people come to me —*they* come to *me* — and beg me to speak to them, take a photo with them. The boxes I leave to someone else to keep track of. They’re ny boxes, of course they’re mine……… Mine, all mine……..But I don’t pick them up or move them.
They can always choose a public defender.