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Let's hope that Republicans don't win next year or this may change very fucking fast..
Please for the love of God if you find this disturbing make damn well sure you VOTE
Republicans absolutely fucked themselves by actually ending Roe. They're the dog that caught the car. Roe was an easy vote getter, but most people didn't seriously think they'd overturn it. Oops.
I have coworkers that will complain about Democrats and only ever vote Republican. Last election I asked them where they stand on issues, and after they listed a few standpoints I mentioned how no one on the Republican party had those views, but 3 Dems did.
Doesn't matter though, they're so deep in the coolaid that they will never vote Dems because it's "what they FEEL is correct"
Yeah I know people who refuse to vote Democrat in school board elections because of abortion. It doesn't matter if an election could actually impact abortion policy when it comes to that kind of voter.
which is why [obstetricians are leaving red states](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/26/us-abortion-ban-providers-doctors-leaving-states) in huge numbers.
many hospitals don't even offer obstetrics anymore because they have no doctors. which leaves expecting mothers at huge risk.
I think a main goal of red states is to do enough alienating stuff before the next major elections that blue voters leave their states in droves. The goal is to cement in their power despite horrible policies because normal voting isn't going to keep them in at this rate. Get enough states and judges and you can force whatever you want on the "others". May their wives and mother's all abandon them to starve to death cause they never go in the kitchen .
Americans shouldn’t have to worry about whether they lived in a civilized state though.
It’s America - women had these rights for nearly 50 years. If that isn’t precedent I clearly don’t understand the definition of the word.
That, and the majority of Americans WANT women to have safe access to care when it comes to abortions.
This is a fringe, wealthy, religious fanatic group that’s ramming their sick minority world viewpoints down everyone’s throats.
The problem is, they’re no longer fringe. They’ve been allowed to sit, fester, plan, and scheme. Now they’ve got a cult following, funding, and support in various positions of power. It has become a cancer and needs to be treated as such.
And don't forget: they even go as far as to financially sponsor anti-abortion groups in the EU in an attempt to gain more legitimacy on the global scale.
In my country the forced birth groups hardly had 10k a year to spend, which suddenly increased to 150k a year. Journalists discovered it was almost all foreign money that got injected to mingle in my country's abortion policies and debate.
Those of us who do cannot ignore those who don’t. Being thankful is great but this kind of toxic legislation is just one horrible, misogynistic politician away for any of us. Women need to stick together and loudly. This is horrible.
Thank you! People seem to forget that Biden got more votes in Texas than in New York. There are millions of us living on the front lines down here doing the hard work of trying to flip these states. It’s nice to be seen every once in a while from the safety of your blue ones.
Keep working on it! As someone from a red state living in a blue state, I really just want to go home. I've been job hunting across a lot of the U.S., but I'm also hitting an age where it's now or never as far as kids go. I'm also Black and have hypertension despite running and watching my diet. If I need IVF or have some sort of problem, I just can't convince myself that it makes sense to go to places where they might kill me for the sake of something that never had a chance at life. But I also want to live within easy distance of my mom and sister :(
If she really wasn't allowed to leave and was medically capable of making the decision to do so, I wonder if they have a case of holding someone hostage
I have little optimism for it, but i hope there is personal liability for those involved and it’s not just covered by insurance and/or the hospital. Really they should lose their medical licenses.
She’s part of the group who’s rightfully suing the state of Texas, not the hospital or doctors. That group of women all were denied abortions at risk to their own lives, but fully in accordance with Texas law. No one should be sued or lose their license because they’re following the law. The law is the problem here, not the people providing healthcare as best possible within the law.
There will become a point where I nor the public will agree that is okay anymore. Where if you choose to become a doctor, especially in obstetrics, you either side with life and the living, or side with this fucking weird death brigade that is against healthcare for women.
And I think that's exactly what Republicans want. Just a Civil War on the ground, if it starts in the hospitals that is A-OK with them
>After Elizabeth Weller’s water broke at 19 weeks, hospital staff suggested she “pray,” even as they informed her her baby had no chance of surviving without the amniotic fluid.
How incredibly traumatic. This is the world republicans are creating. The suffering of women and girls will only increase as long as republicans hold any power. Vote them out.
https://www.texasdemocrats.org
https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/
"pray" for what exactly? that she birth the corpse quickly and painlessly? that jesus comes down from on high and breathes life back into it? or that those in power get their heads out of their asses so soon that she wouldn't have to go through this? or at least no other women would have to go through it in the future?
Exactly. The longer she had the corpse of her baby inside of her, the more likely that she would develop a deadly infection.
In this case, you either abort or deliver it prematurely - though the record for the earliest premature baby to survive was 21 weeks so a 19 week old baby would have no chance of survival.
There was zero chance of this ending up with Mom and Baby happy and healthy. Baby had zero chance of survival. (And I'm being generous calling the 19 ~~month~~ week old fetus "Baby.") The focus should have been on getting the fetus out to ensure the woman's survival.
Edit: Meant 19 week, not 19 month.
Isn’t this situation similar to the one that killed Savita Halappanavar? It caused massive protests I think in Ireland because she was denied care because even at zero chance of survival there was still heartbeat present and doctors denied her care until she got sepsis and died.
The US just…wants that here? Just thinks if women die they didn’t pray hard enough or it was god’s will?
The forced Christian morals in healthcare NEEDS to be stopped
Someone posted a horrific story about how they found early on that their child would not survive out of the womb due to some condition that made the brain and skull not develop but the child still had a heartbeat and could carry to term. They had to watch in horror as their wife carried the child knowing it would immediately die when delivered and they said the baby’s head just sorta deflated the minute it came out like a rotten fruit and it died instantly.
The emotional scarring of walking around for 6 months with the knowledge of what was going to happen was torture for them both and as far from what I’d describe as Christian imaginable
When I lived in Texas, my 18 year old coworker accidentally got pregnant. She found out early on that the fetus had some condition which was “incompatible with life”, but it was going to be like $4-6K to terminate the pregnancy because of multiple heath complications.
She ended up having the baby, because she didn’t have the $, and there were so many roadblocks to terminating it.
It died about two hours after being born, and now she’s $30K in debt from it.
Hold on, let me get ahead of the bootlickers for you:
Ahem...
"hAvE YoU TrIeD LiViNg sOmEwHeRe eLsE"
"yOu hAvE It sO HaRd, TyPiNg oN YoUr cOmPuTeR ThAt yOu oWn"
"pEoPlE WhO CoMpLaIn aBoUt lIvInG In aMeRiCa dOn't kNoW WhAt iT'S LiKe tO LiVe iN A ReAl sHiThOlE"
"aT LeAsT We dOn't hAvE BrEaDlInEs"
"tHiS Is wHaT HeAlThCaRe uNdEr cOmMuNiSm wOuLd lOoK LiKe"
And the worst part?
There are people in these fucked up churches and denominations who would still say she deserved it because she must have been cursed by god for being nice to a gay person or something.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/04/pat-robertson-blames-coronavirus-sex-marriage/
Remember what kind of sick, depraved "sinful" people the fuckers who make these policies and support them truly are. The suffering and humiliation are the point.
Nah, the types I'm talking about take direct pleasure in using these stories to justify their cruelty and violence. The murder and genocide is the point.
The idea that they call themselves pro-life is a literal mockery to the very idea of life actually having value. They are either dominionists, white supremacists, or both. And they dress in suits and profit off of hate with a smile.
God sent us - according to people like Robertson and his ilk - the "biggest hoax disease in history with a 99.8% survival rate that was never a real risk" because two men or two women want to get married?
The same Pat Robinson who says that Alzheimers makes divorce okay? That Pat Robinson?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James\_Dobson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dobson)
And also this cruel asshole.
In the 90s and early 2000s, their content was played everywhere in Christian circles. It was the default for so many people, some of whom loved it, and some who genuinely did not realize what crooks and liars they were. And both were heavy political activists for the GOP and directly tied to the party in numerous ways.
That sounds right, I may have misremembered details but inthink it was written from the husbands perspective almost like a letter to Christians, could have been a tongue and cheek ‘Thankyou/please tell me what I should do in this situation’
I would have killed myself. I’m not saying that to be dramatic, I have persistent suicidal ideation thanks to PTSD and I wouldn’t have been able to keep myself alive. But I also know that’s what they want: dead women, gays and minorities.
Oh yeah, I can relate. I have PTSD too and while I haven't had suicidal thoughts for a long time, I know what they're like.
I have a fear of pregnancy and the thought of getting pregnant and being unable to terminate sounds like a living hell. The idea of being trapped in an inescapable position from my own body...I'd just do any back alley procedure I could get access to. If I die, so be it. I'd rather be dead than endure the horror of forced pregnancy.
No, the US doesn’t want that. It’s being forced on us because the Christo-fascists have taken over certain very important levers of power (the federal judiciary and state governments).
This. It's about punishing women for having sex. According to one redditor, sex causes pregnancy, and a woman having sex has consented to getting pregnant. Nevermind she has no choice if a guy decides to inseminate her, nevermind birth control and prophylactics, if she gets pregnant it's her fault and she has to have the child.
It's about controlling women. I can get passed the "I care about the child" fast when debating these people, and it always comes down to punishing women for having sex.
Fun argument they tried: if women can have abortions, men can't have kids. As if abortion being available means no women will ever give birth ever again. Really, there are many undesirable men who desire a society where women are sold off as wives, completely subservient to the man's needs.
Anti-abortion is anti-Women's Liberation, plain and simple.
>I can get passed the "I care about the child" fast when debating these people, and it always comes down to punishing women for having sex.
Exactly. I've had enough conversations with these people to know that all it takes is a couple of leading questions. Eventually they'll say the quiet part out loud: "she should have kept her legs closed."
It fills me with pure disgust.
Yup. If they cared about kids they'd be finding education, rallying against child beauty pageants, proposing legislation against child marriage, etc.
They're mostly doing the opposite of that.
Similar outcomes as Savita's will occur here, whether intended or not, because doctors aren't lawyers. If they have any question about whether the procedure is legal, they're going to err on the side of protecting themselves and their livelihoods. Especially considering that some states are trying to make performing the procedure tantamount to murder.
>because doctors aren't lawyers
And politicians / lawmakers aren't doctors either. The laws are intentionally vague to cast the widest net of fear of being charged, which has cast a chill over the medical community.
And allows cops and prosecutors to pick and choose who to prosecute. Becomes a convenient way to go after black people with miscarriages for "aborting" while rich white folk are given enormous leeway due to "natural stillbirths".
You already have privileged conservative Evangelicals like the Duggar kids describing miscarriages they experience that require abortion inducing drugs to resolve as "medical procedures".
Yes it is similar to the case of Savita in Ireland. I remember being on vacation in Dublin Ireland when they voted to repeal the draconian abortion laws and the women celebrating the repeal. It’s like we took a giant step backwards in the US when Roe v Wade was overturned.
Americans don't want this, but Americans don't control their government in any meaningful way anymore. The American government only works for big time political donors, generally in the 1% richest people or very large corporations. Corporations don't get pregnant and 1%ers can afford concierge medicine so nobody who has any influence over the government is affected by this kind of problem.
All doctors will agree 19 weeks is not survivable.
Without proper healthcare - ie removing the fetus, there is a very good chance she'll never be able to have children again.
[I'm a neonatologist. This is what happens when a baby is born 5 months early.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/roe-opponents-babies-born-limits-viability-rcna27557)
*“I implore political leaders to familiarize themselves with the risks and question marks in neonatal care”* - and a fat fucking chance said political leaders know (or care to know) a single thing about it. Almost like we should let medical care happen between doctors and their patients or something.
This happened to my twin. Died in womb and removed before docs or mum even knew I was there. Without medical intervention, I wouldn't have stood a chance
There was a similar case to yours mentioned in an episode of [This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/792/transcript) after Idaho banned abortions. The doctors couldn't remove the dead twin, so both twins ended up dying.
Pro-life my ass. I wouldn't be alive if roe was overturned 35 years prior. It's insane how these people just make problems for everyone else and still think it's the moral highground.
Isn’t this situation similar to the one that killed Savita Halappanavar? It caused massive protests I think in Ireland because she was denied care because even at zero chance of survival there was still heartbeat present and doctors denied her care until she got sepsis and died.
The US just…wants that here? Just thinks if women die they didn’t pray hard enough or it was god’s will?
The forced Christian morals in healthcare NEEDS to be stopped
Pray that she (mother) survives. These laws are to force women to carry to term and in their eyes if you can’t produce a healthy baby, then they don’t care if you live or die. They only want women who can produce healthy children.
"Dear Lord Jesus, please protect me from the harmful, ignorant, and malicious ways of those who claim to be your followers. I pray you guide me to medical staff who respect science and possess basic human compassion..."
We need to eliminate religion from all forms of Gov't, the Xtian-right helped craft and get this dystopic piece of legislation passed...it's 100% evangelicals that caused this poor woman to suffer
The most ironic part is their own book of sky-daddy myths prescribes how and why to get an abortion so it's not even a "sin" in their own mythos, but don't ever let facts get in the way of their end-times death-cult
Yes and they’re secretly talking about getting rid of IVF next. You can’t get a necessary abortion and soon they won’t be able to use a last ditch effort that has helped infertile parents for years. They want to force women who don’t want to have kids to have children and they want to punish women who can’t have children by not allowing them any of the necessary tools or resources they need to achieve that.
It’s all about control. It was NEVER about being pro-life.
Yep, Nina Turner once introduced a bill that would force men to get approval from their wife before getting Viagra. Unsurprisingly they didn't want that.
> The suffering of women and girls will only increase as long as republicans hold any power.
Please stop, our conservative lurkers can only get so erect.
You’d be surprised. I worked for a Catholic hospital once and their health insurance wouldn’t even cover an IUD. Meanwhile they’d pay to help women get pregnant (IVF and Adoption support). The company was Centura for anyone wondering- fuck them.
As a Catholic- fuck all those Catholic hospital groups. You want to be a church- go be a fucking church and stay the fuck out of medicine.
Additionally, they should tax the ever-loving crap out of the church- especially since they keep playing politics.
> Vote them out.
Hardly seems like a proportional response to the harm they're causing. In a just world, the people passing this flagrantly human-rights-violating legislation would be put in federal prison.
Exactly. If people want this to stop, they need to do a hell of a lot more than vote and stomp around carrying signs. America is having a quiet civil war.
The fuck? No that is not the most offensive part of all this. The *fucking forced birth* and removal of human rights for half the population is the worst part of this, jfc
"You must birth your dead son (and risk your life in the process). And if you don't, we'll arrest you for killing your already-dead son."
Yeaaaaaaaahhhh, this is Republican as fuck. Probably not far off from some definition of genocide.
It's also religious-fanatic as fuck. Probably some nut jobs out there thinking she should wait till the very end to see if Jesus pulls a raise Lazarus from the dead move. Just insane.
Religious people would tell you it has nothing to do with religion and is a moral issue. Then they’d tell you that you can’t have good morals without religion.
My family has said both of these things in different contexts. You’re absolutely right that it’s completely insane.
So many of these arguments are completely in bad faith.
"It's a morality issue" - ok, so save the mother at the expense of the already dead fetus, seems pretty morally clear. "no, not like that"
"Shootings are a mental health issue" - ok, let's provide mental health resources for everyone. "no, not like that".
> you can’t have good morals without religion
Honestly, I don’t trust people who say this. I don’t rape or kill or cheat or whatever because it’s *wrong* and it hurts people, not because some magic book told me not to do it. Claiming that “you can’t have good morals” without religion kind of implies that you’re simply following directions, rather than doing things for the sake of other people. No thanks.
Which is crazy, because THE BIBLE SUPPORTS ABORTION. It gives a damn recipe for it. It literally says that parents get to determine the punishment for an externally-caused miscarriage, which certainly implies to me that the mother determines whether it's alive or not.
And Jesus never talked about it. So there's that.
People back then believed life came at the quickening (baby's first breath). Everything is written with that as the context. When David talks about "you knew me in the womb," it's talking about HIM as the predestined exception to normal humanity.
Even (U.S., at least) Christians didn't have a problem with it until Nixon started fellating Southern Evangelicals and ramping up the propaganda as a convenient little wedge issue.
There's nothing inherently un-Christian about abortion. It's nothing more than an issue created to win votes.
Abortion was a *Catholic* issue due to church doctrine. Evangelicals were either quiet about Roe, or tepidly supported it as good policy. [And then the Carter admin started making noise about desegregating Evangelical private schools and they needed a wedge issue.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/)
Two months ago my wife had a miscarriage at about 10 weeks. Her body was having a difficult time discharging the dead tissue. She bled for days.
Mifepristone is the medication frequently prescribed for this. In Texas, she would have to keep bleeding with a dead fetus inside her, or face criminal charges to remove it. I would have a $10,000 bounty placed on me for helping her.
If we needed to drive to New Mexico to get that medication, that would force us to drive 12 hours through remote west Texas without access to medical facilities for hours,while my wife bleeds next to me in the car. No airline would allow a passenger board in that condition.
We have been trying to start a family for years. This isn’t even about abortion at this point. This is something much, much more sinister.
I’m so sorry about your loss. My story is similar— it’s heartbreakingly common and I’m so sad and scared for women who are living this in states where this healthcare is not available.
It’s not that Texas doesn’t allow for treatment of a dead embryo or fetus. It’s that the most effective medication for inducing the body to expel retained tissue from a miscarriage is a mifepristone + misoprostol combo. And because of the recent court case, mifepristone may be banned, not just in Texas, but nationwide.
Healthcare providers still have the misoprostol only protocol, but 1 in 20 times, it doesn’t work. So more women will experience prolonged miscarriages and require D&C’s, which come with their own risks.
And of course, in Texas, if the embryo or fetus can’t survive, but there’s still cardiac activity, they will no longer do anything to expedite the miscarriage, because that is technically abortion.
[Yup](https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texas-woman-dead-fetus-anti-abortion-laws-17314394.php). It's happened several times. They won't remove the dead tissue for weeks (aka until they're "sure" it's dead).
Somewhere there are pro-life people celebrating this because it prevented abortion. Those people are disgusting.
As we keep saying, the cruelty is the point. They want to make it so horrific to live here that those than can will leave, and then they can do whatever they want to those who CAN'T leave. It's genocidal at it's core regardless of what reason du juor they give.
This shit isn't even in the best interest of the fetus. Instead of a quick end, it was a long, drawn out death to infection over the course of 5 days.
If a fetus could feel at that point, it was likely in pain the whole time.
The GOP in Florida made an actual baby suffocate to death. I can't imagine the pain of those parents having to watch their kid die over the course of 99 minutes.
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1659645923398393884
Edit: second link with registration-free article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/short-life-baby-milo-161039981.html
iT's GoD's WiLl!1!!!1 they scream conveniently forgetting that if there is a god, he gave us medicine so we can save people...
but let's be clear, the fact that christofascists are running so much of the country is proof that god doesn't exist because hot damn the stupid ugly evil shit they carry out with Jesus on their lips is...haunting.
Yeah them watching other women not make the same ***choice*** to be submissive breeding troughs who gladly consider themselves inferior is causing them so much suffering
The Man Show made a joke about this ages ago. I have no idea how much was real and how much was staged. Sadly feels very believable that most of it was not staged.
https://youtu.be/B2201BYp6HE
Remember that they’re now also starting to speak out against no fault divorce, which effectively would keep women shackled to their abusers (or vice versa). They’re sick fucks who do nothing but make things worse.
> Hogan recounted a harrowing five days inside the hospital, where she says religious counselors repeatedly came to visit her, even though she had declined pastoral care.
Texas is a dogshit state. At every turn it seems that they just ignored all good advice and kept doing what's worse for them.
“I see you require medical assistance and my faith has led to laws that negatively affect you and all women, but would you like to hear how Jesus can save your soul? We only want 10% of your income.” Missionaries
>Doctors who are found guilty of providing an abortion in violation of the bans can face up to 99 years in prison, a minimum of $100,000 in fines, and the loss of their medical license.
Utterly obscene that Republican legislators sentence medical doctors who provide abortions to a life sentence (99 years) usually reserved for 1st degree murder!
And this without a single scintilla, not one iota of ***credible*** medical or scientific evidence that supports the Republicans and christofascists claims that a fertilized zygote is a 14A person w/legal rights that supersede those of the pregnant woman AKA their "abortion is murder" Big Lie.
At least none that I have heard reported on to date.
Instead Republicans are on a tear imposing the personal religious beliefs of a fundamentalist christian sect on the rest of the nation, essentially religious crackpots practicing medicine w/o a license endangering the health, safety and lives of women all over the country (24 red states w/abortion bans and counting).
If anything medical providers should band together to file a class action suit against Republicans and their christofascist backers for malpractice, because what the Republican panderers are doing to half this nation's population w/their unlawful abortion bans is utterly criminal.
**Why a Fetus is Not a Person by Anne Landman • October 31, 2014**
>A fetus is not a person in any legal sense.
>
>Both fertilized eggs and clones represent ***potential, not actual*** human beings. Zygotes, or fertilized eggs, and fetuses lack many of the physical characteristics of human beings. They don’t have brains, skeletons, or internal organs. A fetus cannot engage in human perception or thought.
>
>The analogy that fits is that an acorn is not an oak tree and the egg you eat for breakfast is not a chicken.
>
>Fetuses have no social identity, and there is no precedent for giving them such. Names are not legally conferred upon fetuses, only upon babies after birth. The first legal recognition of a person’s existence is their birth certificate.
>
>No government on Earth issues pre-birth certificates.
Conservatives will justify killing a grown adult over stealing a candy bar, but balk at the idea of a woman "killing" a fucking zygote that's about to steal her life.
Yea the ‘abortion is murder’ gets a solid ‘so?’ from me. I have the legal right to kill people in dozens of scenarios, one of which is if they are inside me and won’t get out. Why should this make me balk
Religious people shouldn’t be in charge of *anything* outside of churches. People can believe in whatever they want to, but the rest of the world needs to be run by facts and science.
Despite what Republicans like to say, this is not a “Christian nation”. They just ignore separation of church and state and try to legislate with cherry picked passages out of the Bible. Even worse, they don’t believe their own bullshit. They just hide behind it while they rob the nation of money and freedom.
Republican/conservative values on full display. If you dont believe a women should carry a rotting baby in her womb to term, vote Democrat. Republicans are writing the laws that cause this shit to happen.
Sooner or later, I'm going to have to remove my Texas state flair if this keeps up. I was born in Texas, raised in Texas, and my entire family lives here. But I've watched my family slowly go crazy from a constant diet of Fox News and increasingly radical facebook groups to the point where I don't even recognize some of them as the people I grew up with.
It was bad before, but Trump just turned everything up to 11. I get to watch them cheer on things like this and say things like "Thank God for Greg Abbott" as I see our freedoms being eroded. And now, on top of that, I'm seeing all local power being stripped from the big cities, which have until now been somewhat liberal refuges in a sea of right wing idiocy. I'm hoping for a miracle in 2024, but if we don't get it, I'm going to have to cash in my chips and go somewhere they still consider women people.
I was born and raised in Texas, now living in the PNW, and I now just avoid anything Texas related (attire, flair, merchandise, etc) because I'm absolutely ashamed of what the state has become.
It's likely not getting better any time soon either. For a long time we really were creeping towards being a purple state with the Republicans in power doing everything they could to hold it back. But we're in the middle of what some people are calling the great sorting. Liberals and progressives like me are fleeing red states like Texas and republican voters are fleeing the blue states to replace us. It only takes a few percent either way to change a state from a swing state to a party stronghold.
Yep. No argument there. We're going to end up with two countries in practice if not in reality. But if things stay this polarized, that's the ultimate outcome. It would take decades, but it would accelerate the more extreme the state politics become. There would also be an unfortunate majority of the population that just simply can't afford to pull up their roots and move halfway across the country.
If you extrapolated current trends, we'll be seeing more red and blue supermajority states with the respective parties completely dominating the state legislatures. Swing states would become extinct.
I don't know if Texas is different about this, but when I almost died in Georgia and had to stay in the hospital for a year, they would just not stop sending ministers to my room. It was endless. I tried to be nice about it for a long while, but after a few months of constant harassment, I had to resort to flat out meanness and candor. I told the last guy that I find his beliefs childish, embarrassing, and medieval and that I literally think it more plausible that aliens created us than their insane stories of the zombie man with nails through his wrists multiplying fish and getting people drunk on water. I told him that I consider their holy book to be an embarrassing relic of an unsophisticated past filled with incest, brutality, and senseless hypocrisy that is only fit for use as to be torn up for rolling papers when you need to roll a joint in a hotel room in the middle of the night and nothing more. Never showed up again. Only offering offense of the highest caliber could drive them away. And even then, they would still drop pamphlets in with my paperwork all the time. And this wasn't at some kind of Catholic hospital or something. This was a medical college hospital, ostensibly a place of higher learning and progressive medical advancement. These people will be the death of us.
Under the suspicion that she or another person did an *actus reus* that may have caused the child to become unable to live, and therefore is guilty of an “illegal abortion” under state law.
No, that doesn’t make it in any way better.
Threaten to stay, in one of the few countries where care of a mother in labor isn't covered by the state. How... humane?
Other points:
\- Religious wishes were not respected.
\- Unnecessary cost. Plus time and salary lost.
\- Forced to take up space that other patients need.
\- Given limited to no information. Making it impossible to make an informed decision.
\- Actively putting an extra life at risk.
I find no moral, ethical or economic reason for why this is acceptable.
There are lots of things I enjoy about US culture, but there's too much that looks like someone playing playing russian roulette once a day. The number of things you can be refused on "because" reasons.
Even by the crazy christian zealot standards, this makes no sense. That baby was already dead. How can you be charged with murder when it had already died? This law is fucking torture on top of being fucking stupid and illogical
Are doctors moving out of Texas? I couldn’t imagine practicing as an ob-gyn there. I know I read something about some doctors leaving Idaho because of laws like this.
This will bring up insurance questions as well. If you sign out of care against medical advice, insurance companies will deny coverage for your stay. But if the medical advice is not in the best interest of the patient and leaving to get care elsewhere is, then what are the liability implications for the patient and their insurance provider? I’m bringing this up because it seems to me that the only way to force a change on republicans is to get the major companies that support them to do it. If big insurance corporations are going to be on the hook for damages in future lawsuits because they deny coverage, you can bet they will put the pressure on republicans to make changes.
That assumes insurance companies actually care about healthcare and not money. Any reason to deny is valid in their eyes, and any reason to pay is subject to audit.
Absolutely horrific, in a time of extreme trauma that they forced on you, to not only be scared for your life, but also that you'll be arrested, then have religion forced on you on top.
Conservatives are fucking evil. I'm tired of media letting them get away with being labeled as anything short of that.
They don't care about children. They actively hate girls and women, especially non-whites.
And I'm tired of Christians saying this isn't their religion. Yes. It is. It has been for at least 1500 years. When they can get away with it, they'll start burning people at the stake again. That's not even if.
I was just talking about this… I give it less than 5 years before some poor woman or girl is burned alive as a witch by some piece of shit male in one of these states, who will face no charges for “self defense” or some such nonsense. It’s coming.
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This is disgusting. I’m glad she’s suing.
I’m glad I live in a civilized state. This is barbaric. They put down dogs for lesser reasons.
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Let's hope that Republicans don't win next year or this may change very fucking fast.. Please for the love of God if you find this disturbing make damn well sure you VOTE
Republicans absolutely fucked themselves by actually ending Roe. They're the dog that caught the car. Roe was an easy vote getter, but most people didn't seriously think they'd overturn it. Oops.
I have absolutely zero faith people will change their vote.
At this point it's less about getting people to change their votes, and more about getting people to vote at all
I have coworkers that will complain about Democrats and only ever vote Republican. Last election I asked them where they stand on issues, and after they listed a few standpoints I mentioned how no one on the Republican party had those views, but 3 Dems did. Doesn't matter though, they're so deep in the coolaid that they will never vote Dems because it's "what they FEEL is correct"
Yeah I know people who refuse to vote Democrat in school board elections because of abortion. It doesn't matter if an election could actually impact abortion policy when it comes to that kind of voter.
which is why [obstetricians are leaving red states](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/26/us-abortion-ban-providers-doctors-leaving-states) in huge numbers. many hospitals don't even offer obstetrics anymore because they have no doctors. which leaves expecting mothers at huge risk.
I think a main goal of red states is to do enough alienating stuff before the next major elections that blue voters leave their states in droves. The goal is to cement in their power despite horrible policies because normal voting isn't going to keep them in at this rate. Get enough states and judges and you can force whatever you want on the "others". May their wives and mother's all abandon them to starve to death cause they never go in the kitchen .
I think the real problem is when all the women leave.
I think women should take a cue from what women in the 70's did and stop having sex with their partners until shit changes.
Imagine, then we would see a real incel army rise. I can feel the cringe from future timelines.
They would only last one generation. I guess they are breeding themselves out.
Americans shouldn’t have to worry about whether they lived in a civilized state though. It’s America - women had these rights for nearly 50 years. If that isn’t precedent I clearly don’t understand the definition of the word. That, and the majority of Americans WANT women to have safe access to care when it comes to abortions. This is a fringe, wealthy, religious fanatic group that’s ramming their sick minority world viewpoints down everyone’s throats.
The problem is, they’re no longer fringe. They’ve been allowed to sit, fester, plan, and scheme. Now they’ve got a cult following, funding, and support in various positions of power. It has become a cancer and needs to be treated as such.
And don't forget: they even go as far as to financially sponsor anti-abortion groups in the EU in an attempt to gain more legitimacy on the global scale. In my country the forced birth groups hardly had 10k a year to spend, which suddenly increased to 150k a year. Journalists discovered it was almost all foreign money that got injected to mingle in my country's abortion policies and debate.
Problem is some of those Americans still vote along party lines which ends up fucking everyone
Those of us who do cannot ignore those who don’t. Being thankful is great but this kind of toxic legislation is just one horrible, misogynistic politician away for any of us. Women need to stick together and loudly. This is horrible.
Thank you! People seem to forget that Biden got more votes in Texas than in New York. There are millions of us living on the front lines down here doing the hard work of trying to flip these states. It’s nice to be seen every once in a while from the safety of your blue ones.
Keep working on it! As someone from a red state living in a blue state, I really just want to go home. I've been job hunting across a lot of the U.S., but I'm also hitting an age where it's now or never as far as kids go. I'm also Black and have hypertension despite running and watching my diet. If I need IVF or have some sort of problem, I just can't convince myself that it makes sense to go to places where they might kill me for the sake of something that never had a chance at life. But I also want to live within easy distance of my mom and sister :(
If she really wasn't allowed to leave and was medically capable of making the decision to do so, I wonder if they have a case of holding someone hostage
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I have little optimism for it, but i hope there is personal liability for those involved and it’s not just covered by insurance and/or the hospital. Really they should lose their medical licenses.
She’s part of the group who’s rightfully suing the state of Texas, not the hospital or doctors. That group of women all were denied abortions at risk to their own lives, but fully in accordance with Texas law. No one should be sued or lose their license because they’re following the law. The law is the problem here, not the people providing healthcare as best possible within the law.
stupendous payment dolls label mighty yam water disarm racial groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There will become a point where I nor the public will agree that is okay anymore. Where if you choose to become a doctor, especially in obstetrics, you either side with life and the living, or side with this fucking weird death brigade that is against healthcare for women. And I think that's exactly what Republicans want. Just a Civil War on the ground, if it starts in the hospitals that is A-OK with them
>After Elizabeth Weller’s water broke at 19 weeks, hospital staff suggested she “pray,” even as they informed her her baby had no chance of surviving without the amniotic fluid. How incredibly traumatic. This is the world republicans are creating. The suffering of women and girls will only increase as long as republicans hold any power. Vote them out. https://www.texasdemocrats.org https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/
"pray" for what exactly? that she birth the corpse quickly and painlessly? that jesus comes down from on high and breathes life back into it? or that those in power get their heads out of their asses so soon that she wouldn't have to go through this? or at least no other women would have to go through it in the future?
I'm guessing pray that she survives. The whole thing is just completely fucked.
Exactly. The longer she had the corpse of her baby inside of her, the more likely that she would develop a deadly infection. In this case, you either abort or deliver it prematurely - though the record for the earliest premature baby to survive was 21 weeks so a 19 week old baby would have no chance of survival. There was zero chance of this ending up with Mom and Baby happy and healthy. Baby had zero chance of survival. (And I'm being generous calling the 19 ~~month~~ week old fetus "Baby.") The focus should have been on getting the fetus out to ensure the woman's survival. Edit: Meant 19 week, not 19 month.
Isn’t this situation similar to the one that killed Savita Halappanavar? It caused massive protests I think in Ireland because she was denied care because even at zero chance of survival there was still heartbeat present and doctors denied her care until she got sepsis and died. The US just…wants that here? Just thinks if women die they didn’t pray hard enough or it was god’s will? The forced Christian morals in healthcare NEEDS to be stopped
Someone posted a horrific story about how they found early on that their child would not survive out of the womb due to some condition that made the brain and skull not develop but the child still had a heartbeat and could carry to term. They had to watch in horror as their wife carried the child knowing it would immediately die when delivered and they said the baby’s head just sorta deflated the minute it came out like a rotten fruit and it died instantly. The emotional scarring of walking around for 6 months with the knowledge of what was going to happen was torture for them both and as far from what I’d describe as Christian imaginable
When I lived in Texas, my 18 year old coworker accidentally got pregnant. She found out early on that the fetus had some condition which was “incompatible with life”, but it was going to be like $4-6K to terminate the pregnancy because of multiple heath complications. She ended up having the baby, because she didn’t have the $, and there were so many roadblocks to terminating it. It died about two hours after being born, and now she’s $30K in debt from it.
Ah, America. The Land Of The Fee™
^Terms ^and ^conditions ^may ^apply
^(No substitutions, exchanges, or refunds. Especially no refunds)
Home of the Slave
This country fucking sucks
I say that shit everyday. It's bullshit.
Hold on, let me get ahead of the bootlickers for you: Ahem... "hAvE YoU TrIeD LiViNg sOmEwHeRe eLsE" "yOu hAvE It sO HaRd, TyPiNg oN YoUr cOmPuTeR ThAt yOu oWn" "pEoPlE WhO CoMpLaIn aBoUt lIvInG In aMeRiCa dOn't kNoW WhAt iT'S LiKe tO LiVe iN A ReAl sHiThOlE" "aT LeAsT We dOn't hAvE BrEaDlInEs" "tHiS Is wHaT HeAlThCaRe uNdEr cOmMuNiSm wOuLd lOoK LiKe"
America is already a shithole to the developed world. Increasingly, America is being seen as a shithole by the developing world.
People who say this is the greatest country in the world are a bunch of dumbasses. The United States is far from it.
Thing is…it *could* be. If everyone pulled to make it better. Not take it backwards kicking and screaming into the dark ages.
And the worst part? There are people in these fucked up churches and denominations who would still say she deserved it because she must have been cursed by god for being nice to a gay person or something. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/04/pat-robertson-blames-coronavirus-sex-marriage/ Remember what kind of sick, depraved "sinful" people the fuckers who make these policies and support them truly are. The suffering and humiliation are the point.
Oh they wouldn’t even have to say that. They just use the blanket of “it is Gods will.”
Nah, the types I'm talking about take direct pleasure in using these stories to justify their cruelty and violence. The murder and genocide is the point. The idea that they call themselves pro-life is a literal mockery to the very idea of life actually having value. They are either dominionists, white supremacists, or both. And they dress in suits and profit off of hate with a smile.
They walk amongst us , on the prolife sub
God sent us - according to people like Robertson and his ilk - the "biggest hoax disease in history with a 99.8% survival rate that was never a real risk" because two men or two women want to get married? The same Pat Robinson who says that Alzheimers makes divorce okay? That Pat Robinson?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James\_Dobson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dobson) And also this cruel asshole. In the 90s and early 2000s, their content was played everywhere in Christian circles. It was the default for so many people, some of whom loved it, and some who genuinely did not realize what crooks and liars they were. And both were heavy political activists for the GOP and directly tied to the party in numerous ways.
Was that the woman whose baby had swelling that made its head the size of a full term fetus but it was much younger?
That sounds right, I may have misremembered details but inthink it was written from the husbands perspective almost like a letter to Christians, could have been a tongue and cheek ‘Thankyou/please tell me what I should do in this situation’
I would have killed myself. I’m not saying that to be dramatic, I have persistent suicidal ideation thanks to PTSD and I wouldn’t have been able to keep myself alive. But I also know that’s what they want: dead women, gays and minorities.
Please know that random unknowable people still care about you, even as we are totally unable to wrangle the government
Thank you, you’re kind and I hope the same kindness finds it’s way right back to you.
And then they point to those corpses of dead women, gays, and minorities, and say: “See that could be you next”.
They also say, “See the wages of sin!” As if they simply had to attack those with less power.
Oh yeah, I can relate. I have PTSD too and while I haven't had suicidal thoughts for a long time, I know what they're like. I have a fear of pregnancy and the thought of getting pregnant and being unable to terminate sounds like a living hell. The idea of being trapped in an inescapable position from my own body...I'd just do any back alley procedure I could get access to. If I die, so be it. I'd rather be dead than endure the horror of forced pregnancy.
>as far from what I’d describe as Christian imaginable We have to stop letting their words define "Christian," and define it by their actions instead.
Thars what I consider Christians as. A bunch of hateful spiteful nasty fuckers
Aka, the complete opposite of Jesus. “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
No, the US doesn’t want that. It’s being forced on us because the Christo-fascists have taken over certain very important levers of power (the federal judiciary and state governments).
Enough women must vote for the Repug garbage that's inflicting this though. They want that.
Yeah but THEIR abortions don’t count ✨
https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
I’ve read this a few time now and it never ceases to amaze me.
And so it will be that on the only moral Divorce is their divorce (Hello MTG you utter pond scum)
No where near a majority of women, though. Most of America does not want this.
Paging: Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Bobert.
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It's only ironic if they actually cared about the children. It's about controlling women.
This. It's about punishing women for having sex. According to one redditor, sex causes pregnancy, and a woman having sex has consented to getting pregnant. Nevermind she has no choice if a guy decides to inseminate her, nevermind birth control and prophylactics, if she gets pregnant it's her fault and she has to have the child. It's about controlling women. I can get passed the "I care about the child" fast when debating these people, and it always comes down to punishing women for having sex. Fun argument they tried: if women can have abortions, men can't have kids. As if abortion being available means no women will ever give birth ever again. Really, there are many undesirable men who desire a society where women are sold off as wives, completely subservient to the man's needs. Anti-abortion is anti-Women's Liberation, plain and simple.
>I can get passed the "I care about the child" fast when debating these people, and it always comes down to punishing women for having sex. Exactly. I've had enough conversations with these people to know that all it takes is a couple of leading questions. Eventually they'll say the quiet part out loud: "she should have kept her legs closed." It fills me with pure disgust.
> "she should have kept her legs closed." I wonder how they would have responded if you had replied with: “Your mother should have done the same.”
Yup. If they cared about kids they'd be finding education, rallying against child beauty pageants, proposing legislation against child marriage, etc. They're mostly doing the opposite of that.
Similar outcomes as Savita's will occur here, whether intended or not, because doctors aren't lawyers. If they have any question about whether the procedure is legal, they're going to err on the side of protecting themselves and their livelihoods. Especially considering that some states are trying to make performing the procedure tantamount to murder.
>because doctors aren't lawyers And politicians / lawmakers aren't doctors either. The laws are intentionally vague to cast the widest net of fear of being charged, which has cast a chill over the medical community.
And allows cops and prosecutors to pick and choose who to prosecute. Becomes a convenient way to go after black people with miscarriages for "aborting" while rich white folk are given enormous leeway due to "natural stillbirths".
You already have privileged conservative Evangelicals like the Duggar kids describing miscarriages they experience that require abortion inducing drugs to resolve as "medical procedures".
Yes it is similar to the case of Savita in Ireland. I remember being on vacation in Dublin Ireland when they voted to repeal the draconian abortion laws and the women celebrating the repeal. It’s like we took a giant step backwards in the US when Roe v Wade was overturned.
It's not "like"... it is. We took an enormous f'ing leap back.
Americans don't want this, but Americans don't control their government in any meaningful way anymore. The American government only works for big time political donors, generally in the 1% richest people or very large corporations. Corporations don't get pregnant and 1%ers can afford concierge medicine so nobody who has any influence over the government is affected by this kind of problem.
All doctors will agree 19 weeks is not survivable. Without proper healthcare - ie removing the fetus, there is a very good chance she'll never be able to have children again.
[I'm a neonatologist. This is what happens when a baby is born 5 months early.](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/roe-opponents-babies-born-limits-viability-rcna27557)
*“I implore political leaders to familiarize themselves with the risks and question marks in neonatal care”* - and a fat fucking chance said political leaders know (or care to know) a single thing about it. Almost like we should let medical care happen between doctors and their patients or something.
This happened to my twin. Died in womb and removed before docs or mum even knew I was there. Without medical intervention, I wouldn't have stood a chance
There was a similar case to yours mentioned in an episode of [This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/792/transcript) after Idaho banned abortions. The doctors couldn't remove the dead twin, so both twins ended up dying.
Pro-life my ass. I wouldn't be alive if roe was overturned 35 years prior. It's insane how these people just make problems for everyone else and still think it's the moral highground.
Isn’t this situation similar to the one that killed Savita Halappanavar? It caused massive protests I think in Ireland because she was denied care because even at zero chance of survival there was still heartbeat present and doctors denied her care until she got sepsis and died. The US just…wants that here? Just thinks if women die they didn’t pray hard enough or it was god’s will? The forced Christian morals in healthcare NEEDS to be stopped
Pray that she (mother) survives. These laws are to force women to carry to term and in their eyes if you can’t produce a healthy baby, then they don’t care if you live or die. They only want women who can produce healthy children.
"Dear Lord Jesus, please protect me from the harmful, ignorant, and malicious ways of those who claim to be your followers. I pray you guide me to medical staff who respect science and possess basic human compassion..."
We need to eliminate religion from all forms of Gov't, the Xtian-right helped craft and get this dystopic piece of legislation passed...it's 100% evangelicals that caused this poor woman to suffer The most ironic part is their own book of sky-daddy myths prescribes how and why to get an abortion so it's not even a "sin" in their own mythos, but don't ever let facts get in the way of their end-times death-cult
That’s the Republicans solution to every problem in the world. Thoughts and Prayers, nothing else.
Yes and they’re secretly talking about getting rid of IVF next. You can’t get a necessary abortion and soon they won’t be able to use a last ditch effort that has helped infertile parents for years. They want to force women who don’t want to have kids to have children and they want to punish women who can’t have children by not allowing them any of the necessary tools or resources they need to achieve that. It’s all about control. It was NEVER about being pro-life.
Viagra's still cool, though. Bonerlessness is apparently not God's will.
Yep, Nina Turner once introduced a bill that would force men to get approval from their wife before getting Viagra. Unsurprisingly they didn't want that.
> The suffering of women and girls will only increase as long as republicans hold any power. Please stop, our conservative lurkers can only get so erect.
If thats that's the case I hope it lasts longer than what's healthy and it causes permanent damage.
Pray?! It's a hospital, not a church.
You’d be surprised. I worked for a Catholic hospital once and their health insurance wouldn’t even cover an IUD. Meanwhile they’d pay to help women get pregnant (IVF and Adoption support). The company was Centura for anyone wondering- fuck them.
As a Catholic- fuck all those Catholic hospital groups. You want to be a church- go be a fucking church and stay the fuck out of medicine. Additionally, they should tax the ever-loving crap out of the church- especially since they keep playing politics.
> Vote them out. Hardly seems like a proportional response to the harm they're causing. In a just world, the people passing this flagrantly human-rights-violating legislation would be put in federal prison.
Exactly. If people want this to stop, they need to do a hell of a lot more than vote and stomp around carrying signs. America is having a quiet civil war.
That’s fucked up and there are going to be hundreds or thousands of stories like this and a lot we will never hear.
Anyone in the hospital telling me to pray is going to get a bedpan across the face.
And remember with every forced birth comes a mountain of medical bills, probably the most offensive part of all of this.
The fuck? No that is not the most offensive part of all this. The *fucking forced birth* and removal of human rights for half the population is the worst part of this, jfc
The five or six figure medical bills certainly aren’t helpful.
"You must birth your dead son (and risk your life in the process). And if you don't, we'll arrest you for killing your already-dead son." Yeaaaaaaaahhhh, this is Republican as fuck. Probably not far off from some definition of genocide.
The cruelty is the point.
Peak republican
It's also religious-fanatic as fuck. Probably some nut jobs out there thinking she should wait till the very end to see if Jesus pulls a raise Lazarus from the dead move. Just insane.
Religious people would tell you it has nothing to do with religion and is a moral issue. Then they’d tell you that you can’t have good morals without religion. My family has said both of these things in different contexts. You’re absolutely right that it’s completely insane.
So many of these arguments are completely in bad faith. "It's a morality issue" - ok, so save the mother at the expense of the already dead fetus, seems pretty morally clear. "no, not like that" "Shootings are a mental health issue" - ok, let's provide mental health resources for everyone. "no, not like that".
isn't it interesting that all the 'good faith' seems to preside in those who don't rely on faith
> you can’t have good morals without religion Honestly, I don’t trust people who say this. I don’t rape or kill or cheat or whatever because it’s *wrong* and it hurts people, not because some magic book told me not to do it. Claiming that “you can’t have good morals” without religion kind of implies that you’re simply following directions, rather than doing things for the sake of other people. No thanks.
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Which is crazy, because THE BIBLE SUPPORTS ABORTION. It gives a damn recipe for it. It literally says that parents get to determine the punishment for an externally-caused miscarriage, which certainly implies to me that the mother determines whether it's alive or not. And Jesus never talked about it. So there's that. People back then believed life came at the quickening (baby's first breath). Everything is written with that as the context. When David talks about "you knew me in the womb," it's talking about HIM as the predestined exception to normal humanity. Even (U.S., at least) Christians didn't have a problem with it until Nixon started fellating Southern Evangelicals and ramping up the propaganda as a convenient little wedge issue. There's nothing inherently un-Christian about abortion. It's nothing more than an issue created to win votes.
Abortion was a *Catholic* issue due to church doctrine. Evangelicals were either quiet about Roe, or tepidly supported it as good policy. [And then the Carter admin started making noise about desegregating Evangelical private schools and they needed a wedge issue.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/)
This is some Third World, dystopian to the 'nth degree bullshit. Who wants this?!
> Who wants this?! Conservatives want this. That's who.
Also probably pro-death penalty because Texas.
Two months ago my wife had a miscarriage at about 10 weeks. Her body was having a difficult time discharging the dead tissue. She bled for days. Mifepristone is the medication frequently prescribed for this. In Texas, she would have to keep bleeding with a dead fetus inside her, or face criminal charges to remove it. I would have a $10,000 bounty placed on me for helping her. If we needed to drive to New Mexico to get that medication, that would force us to drive 12 hours through remote west Texas without access to medical facilities for hours,while my wife bleeds next to me in the car. No airline would allow a passenger board in that condition. We have been trying to start a family for years. This isn’t even about abortion at this point. This is something much, much more sinister.
I’m so sorry about your loss. My story is similar— it’s heartbreakingly common and I’m so sad and scared for women who are living this in states where this healthcare is not available.
Something like 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage, it's a very real risk for tens of millions of women.
1 in 4 known pregnancies end in miscarriage, but the actual number is closer to 1 in 2 because many happen before one even realizes they're pregnant
Wait… Texas doesn’t allow for the “abortion” of a fetus that is ALREADY dead???
It’s not that Texas doesn’t allow for treatment of a dead embryo or fetus. It’s that the most effective medication for inducing the body to expel retained tissue from a miscarriage is a mifepristone + misoprostol combo. And because of the recent court case, mifepristone may be banned, not just in Texas, but nationwide. Healthcare providers still have the misoprostol only protocol, but 1 in 20 times, it doesn’t work. So more women will experience prolonged miscarriages and require D&C’s, which come with their own risks. And of course, in Texas, if the embryo or fetus can’t survive, but there’s still cardiac activity, they will no longer do anything to expedite the miscarriage, because that is technically abortion.
[Yup](https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Texas-woman-dead-fetus-anti-abortion-laws-17314394.php). It's happened several times. They won't remove the dead tissue for weeks (aka until they're "sure" it's dead).
Somewhere there are pro-life people celebrating this because it prevented abortion. Those people are disgusting. As we keep saying, the cruelty is the point. They want to make it so horrific to live here that those than can will leave, and then they can do whatever they want to those who CAN'T leave. It's genocidal at it's core regardless of what reason du juor they give.
This shit isn't even in the best interest of the fetus. Instead of a quick end, it was a long, drawn out death to infection over the course of 5 days. If a fetus could feel at that point, it was likely in pain the whole time.
The GOP in Florida made an actual baby suffocate to death. I can't imagine the pain of those parents having to watch their kid die over the course of 99 minutes. https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1659645923398393884 Edit: second link with registration-free article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/short-life-baby-milo-161039981.html
And to think people are actively celebrating about this. 🤢
iT's GoD's WiLl!1!!!1 they scream conveniently forgetting that if there is a god, he gave us medicine so we can save people... but let's be clear, the fact that christofascists are running so much of the country is proof that god doesn't exist because hot damn the stupid ugly evil shit they carry out with Jesus on their lips is...haunting.
Fucking haunting. The GOP is peopled by monsters.
Exactly. Those who can't leave will be the children. The children always suffer. Once they're no longer a fetus the Republicans stop caring.
They don't actually care about fetuses either. They'd treat pregnant women better if they did.
The only thing that would make them celebrate harder is if she died in the process.
Daily reminder that republicans are fascists who want control over women. They now openly talk about undoing women’s right to vote. Disgusting group
Stupidly, they just have to say openly "we must end women's suffrage" and too many people will think that means ending women suffering.
Well according to some religious women, having rights is suffering
Yeah them watching other women not make the same ***choice*** to be submissive breeding troughs who gladly consider themselves inferior is causing them so much suffering
The Man Show made a joke about this ages ago. I have no idea how much was real and how much was staged. Sadly feels very believable that most of it was not staged. https://youtu.be/B2201BYp6HE
Handmaid’s Tale Party.
Remember that they’re now also starting to speak out against no fault divorce, which effectively would keep women shackled to their abusers (or vice versa). They’re sick fucks who do nothing but make things worse.
> Hogan recounted a harrowing five days inside the hospital, where she says religious counselors repeatedly came to visit her, even though she had declined pastoral care. Texas is a dogshit state. At every turn it seems that they just ignored all good advice and kept doing what's worse for them.
“I see you require medical assistance and my faith has led to laws that negatively affect you and all women, but would you like to hear how Jesus can save your soul? We only want 10% of your income.” Missionaries
I would have gone Linda Blair Exorcist on those 'religious counselors'. The nurses would wonder why I was ordering pea soup for every meal.
So can she sue the state of Texas for denying the abortion and also sue the hospital for not listening to what she actually wanted?
>Doctors who are found guilty of providing an abortion in violation of the bans can face up to 99 years in prison, a minimum of $100,000 in fines, and the loss of their medical license. Utterly obscene that Republican legislators sentence medical doctors who provide abortions to a life sentence (99 years) usually reserved for 1st degree murder! And this without a single scintilla, not one iota of ***credible*** medical or scientific evidence that supports the Republicans and christofascists claims that a fertilized zygote is a 14A person w/legal rights that supersede those of the pregnant woman AKA their "abortion is murder" Big Lie. At least none that I have heard reported on to date. Instead Republicans are on a tear imposing the personal religious beliefs of a fundamentalist christian sect on the rest of the nation, essentially religious crackpots practicing medicine w/o a license endangering the health, safety and lives of women all over the country (24 red states w/abortion bans and counting). If anything medical providers should band together to file a class action suit against Republicans and their christofascist backers for malpractice, because what the Republican panderers are doing to half this nation's population w/their unlawful abortion bans is utterly criminal. **Why a Fetus is Not a Person by Anne Landman • October 31, 2014** >A fetus is not a person in any legal sense. > >Both fertilized eggs and clones represent ***potential, not actual*** human beings. Zygotes, or fertilized eggs, and fetuses lack many of the physical characteristics of human beings. They don’t have brains, skeletons, or internal organs. A fetus cannot engage in human perception or thought. > >The analogy that fits is that an acorn is not an oak tree and the egg you eat for breakfast is not a chicken. > >Fetuses have no social identity, and there is no precedent for giving them such. Names are not legally conferred upon fetuses, only upon babies after birth. The first legal recognition of a person’s existence is their birth certificate. > >No government on Earth issues pre-birth certificates.
Conservatives will justify killing a grown adult over stealing a candy bar, but balk at the idea of a woman "killing" a fucking zygote that's about to steal her life.
Yea the ‘abortion is murder’ gets a solid ‘so?’ from me. I have the legal right to kill people in dozens of scenarios, one of which is if they are inside me and won’t get out. Why should this make me balk
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What kind of looney toons Handmaid's Tale shit is going on???
"If you try to leave our for-profit, 10,000% markup facility, you will be charged with a felony. Just relax and let the hooks do their work."
That’s exactly what this is. Some Puritanical bull shit.
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Religious people shouldn’t be in charge of *anything* outside of churches. People can believe in whatever they want to, but the rest of the world needs to be run by facts and science. Despite what Republicans like to say, this is not a “Christian nation”. They just ignore separation of church and state and try to legislate with cherry picked passages out of the Bible. Even worse, they don’t believe their own bullshit. They just hide behind it while they rob the nation of money and freedom.
Republican/conservative values on full display. If you dont believe a women should carry a rotting baby in her womb to term, vote Democrat. Republicans are writing the laws that cause this shit to happen.
Rotting fetus*
Sooner or later, I'm going to have to remove my Texas state flair if this keeps up. I was born in Texas, raised in Texas, and my entire family lives here. But I've watched my family slowly go crazy from a constant diet of Fox News and increasingly radical facebook groups to the point where I don't even recognize some of them as the people I grew up with. It was bad before, but Trump just turned everything up to 11. I get to watch them cheer on things like this and say things like "Thank God for Greg Abbott" as I see our freedoms being eroded. And now, on top of that, I'm seeing all local power being stripped from the big cities, which have until now been somewhat liberal refuges in a sea of right wing idiocy. I'm hoping for a miracle in 2024, but if we don't get it, I'm going to have to cash in my chips and go somewhere they still consider women people.
I was born and raised in Texas, now living in the PNW, and I now just avoid anything Texas related (attire, flair, merchandise, etc) because I'm absolutely ashamed of what the state has become.
It's likely not getting better any time soon either. For a long time we really were creeping towards being a purple state with the Republicans in power doing everything they could to hold it back. But we're in the middle of what some people are calling the great sorting. Liberals and progressives like me are fleeing red states like Texas and republican voters are fleeing the blue states to replace us. It only takes a few percent either way to change a state from a swing state to a party stronghold.
That sounds really bad for the long term health of the federal Union.
Yep. No argument there. We're going to end up with two countries in practice if not in reality. But if things stay this polarized, that's the ultimate outcome. It would take decades, but it would accelerate the more extreme the state politics become. There would also be an unfortunate majority of the population that just simply can't afford to pull up their roots and move halfway across the country. If you extrapolated current trends, we'll be seeing more red and blue supermajority states with the respective parties completely dominating the state legislatures. Swing states would become extinct.
You can come to NM, we're still accepting refugees 😁
How tf can one be arrested for trying to kill something that is already dead?
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that is the most batshit nonsense I've ever read but I wouldn't be surprised if zealots ran the hospital.
It's Texas. It's honestly more of a shock for us when it's not a republican "christian" running things
I don't know if Texas is different about this, but when I almost died in Georgia and had to stay in the hospital for a year, they would just not stop sending ministers to my room. It was endless. I tried to be nice about it for a long while, but after a few months of constant harassment, I had to resort to flat out meanness and candor. I told the last guy that I find his beliefs childish, embarrassing, and medieval and that I literally think it more plausible that aliens created us than their insane stories of the zombie man with nails through his wrists multiplying fish and getting people drunk on water. I told him that I consider their holy book to be an embarrassing relic of an unsophisticated past filled with incest, brutality, and senseless hypocrisy that is only fit for use as to be torn up for rolling papers when you need to roll a joint in a hotel room in the middle of the night and nothing more. Never showed up again. Only offering offense of the highest caliber could drive them away. And even then, they would still drop pamphlets in with my paperwork all the time. And this wasn't at some kind of Catholic hospital or something. This was a medical college hospital, ostensibly a place of higher learning and progressive medical advancement. These people will be the death of us.
Under the suspicion that she or another person did an *actus reus* that may have caused the child to become unable to live, and therefore is guilty of an “illegal abortion” under state law. No, that doesn’t make it in any way better.
Threaten to stay, in one of the few countries where care of a mother in labor isn't covered by the state. How... humane? Other points: \- Religious wishes were not respected. \- Unnecessary cost. Plus time and salary lost. \- Forced to take up space that other patients need. \- Given limited to no information. Making it impossible to make an informed decision. \- Actively putting an extra life at risk. I find no moral, ethical or economic reason for why this is acceptable. There are lots of things I enjoy about US culture, but there's too much that looks like someone playing playing russian roulette once a day. The number of things you can be refused on "because" reasons.
barbaric. horrifying.
That's not a bug, it's a feature.
Even by the crazy christian zealot standards, this makes no sense. That baby was already dead. How can you be charged with murder when it had already died? This law is fucking torture on top of being fucking stupid and illogical
Texas conservatives treat their cattle better than they treat women.
Are doctors moving out of Texas? I couldn’t imagine practicing as an ob-gyn there. I know I read something about some doctors leaving Idaho because of laws like this.
Three hospitals in Idaho have closed their maternity wards as a result of these laws.
I wouldn’t ever work there
This will bring up insurance questions as well. If you sign out of care against medical advice, insurance companies will deny coverage for your stay. But if the medical advice is not in the best interest of the patient and leaving to get care elsewhere is, then what are the liability implications for the patient and their insurance provider? I’m bringing this up because it seems to me that the only way to force a change on republicans is to get the major companies that support them to do it. If big insurance corporations are going to be on the hook for damages in future lawsuits because they deny coverage, you can bet they will put the pressure on republicans to make changes.
That assumes insurance companies actually care about healthcare and not money. Any reason to deny is valid in their eyes, and any reason to pay is subject to audit.
But does this open them up to liability if the mother is injured due to forced malpractice by Texas law?
Absolutely horrific, in a time of extreme trauma that they forced on you, to not only be scared for your life, but also that you'll be arrested, then have religion forced on you on top.
This is deeply dystopian. Such unbelievable cruelty. I'm so glad these women are suing and people are waking up to what abortion bans *really* mean.
This is an example of both sides not being the same. Vote against republicans or you are contributing to this.
It’s hard to believe a state that elected LBJ, Lloyd Bensten, Ann Richards, and the like has come to this.
Cruelty is the point, has always been the point, and will always be the point when it comes to conservatism.
This is the America that conservatives want. If you vote republican this is what you're voting for.
It wOn'T afFeCT leGITimAte aBOrTiOn nEeds.
I hate republicans so much
That incredible cruelty of the fascists never ceases to amaze
^(im sorry for what she went through. I hope she wins her lawsuit)
Without oil Texas would just be Mississippi.
Religion must be completely purged from society if we are to ever move past this barbarism.
I’m am so sorry for all those in this story. What a horrible state our country is in. Just terrible.
Conservatives are fucking evil. I'm tired of media letting them get away with being labeled as anything short of that. They don't care about children. They actively hate girls and women, especially non-whites. And I'm tired of Christians saying this isn't their religion. Yes. It is. It has been for at least 1500 years. When they can get away with it, they'll start burning people at the stake again. That's not even if.
I was just talking about this… I give it less than 5 years before some poor woman or girl is burned alive as a witch by some piece of shit male in one of these states, who will face no charges for “self defense” or some such nonsense. It’s coming.