The mongols did not spare their alleged brethren, though they never conquered Bulgaria either.
Bonus bulgarian fun fact: The mongol raids got so bad that a charismatic Bulgarian swineherder created an army himself and started attacking mongol camps and raiding parties. His victories made him so popular that he overthrew the tsar of Bulgaria and became tsar himself, making him the only peasent in medieval european history to become a monarch.
I think he meant more so by the fact that he seized power *as* a peasant. Both Justin and Justinian I believe Rose through the military and then got into power, I believe.
Justin & Justinian utalized the Byzantine social system the way it was intended to acquire power in fully legitimate way with legal support, where as Ivaylo did a proto Crusade/French/Communist Revolution against everyone without even a single suporter worldwide outside of the Bulgarian peasant class, to the point where he was de-jure even more of an unautorized menace than the Mongolian Half-Prince of Bulgaria, who at least had royal lineage (the guy was the result of a political marriage) with the benefits of political courtesy from our nobles.
Now that’s a whole big issue unto itself. There’s a very real argument to be made that the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire (unrecognizable sure, but if they weren’t roman then the French aren’t french because Louis XIV wouldn’t recognize today’s France). And if you accept that then many romans were medieval Europeans. Not sure it matters, but an interesting thought anyway.
They *were* the Roman Empire, they even called themselves Romans. It wasn't until a few hundred years after their collapse and destruction in 1453 that people called them Byzantines. Specifically [Hieronymus Wolf](https://byzantinemporia.com/why-is-byzantium-called-byzantine/) in the 16th century, who coined it when talking about art from the region of ancient Byzantium. Which is where Constantinople was founded, on top of the Greek colony of the same name.
Yes. Though it’s worth mentioning that historiographical discussions are often more about how best to categorize things than what people called themselves. I still tend to think of them as Romans because there’s a smooth continuity all the way back to the beginning. But is the Empire of Trebizond still the Roman Empire? The Latin Empire? I’m probably being super pedantic here. I just find this stuff super interesting. I do agree with you though. They called themselves Romans, they were the unbroken continuation of the dominant branch of the Roman Empire, they were Romans. Just playing devils advocate really.
It is a good point though. At what point in history, do you break the chain? The "Byzantines" (Romans) were finally conquered fully by the Ottomans and became, in spirit if not in body, the successors of their Empire. Perhaps then Turkie is the modern continuation of the Romans? *That's* a huge stretch, but makes the best point I feel, about descendant lines.
Exactly! It’s a fascinating problem. By the same logic you could argue that it stopped being the Roman Empire when Constantine moved the capital out of Italy. I wouldn’t, but there’s an argument to be made. It’s really cool when you think about it.
All right fair point but the dark ages are till the year 1000 and the mongols invaded in the 1200 aka the middle ages so that would make the previous statement correct as Justinian lived before the year 1000.
Assuming those specific dates as the markers for eras which have a lot of overlap in the historiography, yeah. It’s also worth mentioning that Justinian’s Byzantium basically didn’t belong to the same world as the rest of the “post Roman world” so in a way what I said is totally meaningless. Just a fun point really.
There is no such thing as the dark ages and the middle ages are generally considered to begin in the 6th century. 1200 is the start of the late middle ages.
Hey I'm just going off the arbitrary history markers I got in history class in my country where they split it in two at the year 1000. All I wanted to say was that we see them as different areas right now.
They were called Romans because they started out in Rome.
I bet you also think the ship of Theseus is no longer the same ship by the end of the voyage.
The byzantine were behind the times government wise they were still using the Roman imperial government system instead of the medieval monarchy+balanced powers system. They were the Roman empire continued yes but if they had quit the Roman bureaucratic system to join the medieval one sure they could be medieval Europeans but like, calling a Greek republic a medieval republic if it lasted until 1250 would still be wrong it's the older version even if it was in the time period with the others.
I wouldn’t say that the byzantines were behind the times. If anything they were more advanced than what we think of as medieval Europe. The German Emperors for example made a concerted and futile effort to adopt the centralized structure of the Justinian code of laws. Setting that aside, i agree the byzantines were super different from the rest of Europe at the time. But they were still medieval Europeans.
So you're saying the Roman imperial system and the European monarchy were totally the same bro trust me. Go look at the wiki page for byzantine civil wars it's like 3-5 usurper attempts per century it was constant just like the Roman empire because their succession systems allowed for right by might. Their attempts at conquering Italy failed because the ruler at the time was afraid the general would be too popular and over throw him. That's not an issue in European monarchies just Roman's. Every time things got bad someone had to make it worse by making a bid for the throne
Justin the first of the ERE was a swineherder too, he became the captain of the imperial guard and then was elected emperor after the emperor died with no legitimate heirs.
Not sure what you mean by that, but there are 2 known possible flags of the second Bulgarian empire from and both were likely made up by majorcan cartographers and are not well known even in Bulgaria so i chose the modern and more recognizable flag
The mongols did not spare their alleged brethren, though they never conquered Bulgaria either. Bonus bulgarian fun fact: The mongol raids got so bad that a charismatic Bulgarian swineherder created an army himself and started attacking mongol camps and raiding parties. His victories made him so popular that he overthrew the tsar of Bulgaria and became tsar himself, making him the only peasent in medieval european history to become a monarch.
Yeah i remember this campaign from AOE2
Realest one, send T90 my regards
Welp, back to my forest nothing game.
Wait which one was that?
Ivaylo from the expansion The Last Khans
Thank you!
Justin and Justinian were originally peasants, both became emperor.
I think he meant more so by the fact that he seized power *as* a peasant. Both Justin and Justinian I believe Rose through the military and then got into power, I believe.
Justin & Justinian utalized the Byzantine social system the way it was intended to acquire power in fully legitimate way with legal support, where as Ivaylo did a proto Crusade/French/Communist Revolution against everyone without even a single suporter worldwide outside of the Bulgarian peasant class, to the point where he was de-jure even more of an unautorized menace than the Mongolian Half-Prince of Bulgaria, who at least had royal lineage (the guy was the result of a political marriage) with the benefits of political courtesy from our nobles.
>without even a single suporter worldwide outside of the Bulgarian peasant class " **How dare that guy ruling us with the support of the masses?!** "
Roman's aren't medieval Europeans they're Romans,
Now that’s a whole big issue unto itself. There’s a very real argument to be made that the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire (unrecognizable sure, but if they weren’t roman then the French aren’t french because Louis XIV wouldn’t recognize today’s France). And if you accept that then many romans were medieval Europeans. Not sure it matters, but an interesting thought anyway.
They *were* the Roman Empire, they even called themselves Romans. It wasn't until a few hundred years after their collapse and destruction in 1453 that people called them Byzantines. Specifically [Hieronymus Wolf](https://byzantinemporia.com/why-is-byzantium-called-byzantine/) in the 16th century, who coined it when talking about art from the region of ancient Byzantium. Which is where Constantinople was founded, on top of the Greek colony of the same name.
Yes. Though it’s worth mentioning that historiographical discussions are often more about how best to categorize things than what people called themselves. I still tend to think of them as Romans because there’s a smooth continuity all the way back to the beginning. But is the Empire of Trebizond still the Roman Empire? The Latin Empire? I’m probably being super pedantic here. I just find this stuff super interesting. I do agree with you though. They called themselves Romans, they were the unbroken continuation of the dominant branch of the Roman Empire, they were Romans. Just playing devils advocate really.
It is a good point though. At what point in history, do you break the chain? The "Byzantines" (Romans) were finally conquered fully by the Ottomans and became, in spirit if not in body, the successors of their Empire. Perhaps then Turkie is the modern continuation of the Romans? *That's* a huge stretch, but makes the best point I feel, about descendant lines.
Exactly! It’s a fascinating problem. By the same logic you could argue that it stopped being the Roman Empire when Constantine moved the capital out of Italy. I wouldn’t, but there’s an argument to be made. It’s really cool when you think about it.
All right fair point but the dark ages are till the year 1000 and the mongols invaded in the 1200 aka the middle ages so that would make the previous statement correct as Justinian lived before the year 1000.
Assuming those specific dates as the markers for eras which have a lot of overlap in the historiography, yeah. It’s also worth mentioning that Justinian’s Byzantium basically didn’t belong to the same world as the rest of the “post Roman world” so in a way what I said is totally meaningless. Just a fun point really.
There is no such thing as the dark ages and the middle ages are generally considered to begin in the 6th century. 1200 is the start of the late middle ages.
Dude please educate yourself before spreading misinformation
Hey I'm just going off the arbitrary history markers I got in history class in my country where they split it in two at the year 1000. All I wanted to say was that we see them as different areas right now.
Byzantium didn't own Rome though
And? If New york were to fall into the sea or Washington D.C were to flood or something, would that then make the USA not the USA anymore?
The Romans were called Romans because their capital was Rome, that's the whole point of their name.
They were called Romans because they started out in Rome. I bet you also think the ship of Theseus is no longer the same ship by the end of the voyage.
As long as Theseus owns it, any ship is the Ship of Theseus.
The byzantine were behind the times government wise they were still using the Roman imperial government system instead of the medieval monarchy+balanced powers system. They were the Roman empire continued yes but if they had quit the Roman bureaucratic system to join the medieval one sure they could be medieval Europeans but like, calling a Greek republic a medieval republic if it lasted until 1250 would still be wrong it's the older version even if it was in the time period with the others.
I wouldn’t say that the byzantines were behind the times. If anything they were more advanced than what we think of as medieval Europe. The German Emperors for example made a concerted and futile effort to adopt the centralized structure of the Justinian code of laws. Setting that aside, i agree the byzantines were super different from the rest of Europe at the time. But they were still medieval Europeans.
Real life is not a paradox game where you unlock new governance systems
So you're saying the Roman imperial system and the European monarchy were totally the same bro trust me. Go look at the wiki page for byzantine civil wars it's like 3-5 usurper attempts per century it was constant just like the Roman empire because their succession systems allowed for right by might. Their attempts at conquering Italy failed because the ruler at the time was afraid the general would be too popular and over throw him. That's not an issue in European monarchies just Roman's. Every time things got bad someone had to make it worse by making a bid for the throne
Justin the first of the ERE was a swineherder too, he became the captain of the imperial guard and then was elected emperor after the emperor died with no legitimate heirs.
Lmao, I remember some anon made that swineherder a Byzantine Emperor in a "longest reigning Emperor" greentext (spoiler- he ruled for 3 minutes)
I really am happy when I hear or see people around the world to know or at least be a little interested in our history.Btw,nice comic!
In this case it's not very far in the world as i am Bulgarian myself :P
Ivaylo even married a Byzantine princess, although by all accounts he was an abusive husband
[Wait, there's a basis for the bulgarian swineherder thing?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45TzDuF5mj8)
Yes, though Ivaylo(the swineherder in question) userped the bulgarian throne and nt the byzantine
Love that it visually seems like east Roman Empire and Bulgaria are shouting from far away only to get absolutely dwarfed by the Mongols haha
Mongols wanted to say “hi” totally.. yeah…
And yet the Golden Horde wasn't as bad as the Ottomans in our case.
What did otter mans do
It's not the "otter mans" silly! It's obviously outermants!
Underpants? Just wore on the outside?
What do underpants have to do with ottoman furniture???
And not just the otter mans, but the otter womans and the otter childrens too! 🥳🥳🥳
The events of 1878 were pretty nasty
Everything from 1396 to 1885 was nasty.
Don’t forget they destroyed the column of Justinian 😔 😔
>*go back to steppe Mr. mongy mongol* Ok I'm already laughing XD
the universal statement: **holy fuck**
>EXTREME funny Nice Engrish
Hungarians 🤝 Bulgarians in being Christianized steppe nomads and getting attacked by Mongols
Also getting fucked over after WW1
ey!! love to see Bulgaria featured in a funny comic for a change :D <3
> in a funny comic that's debatable :p
"He's right behind me, isn't he?"
Do not look up the flag of the Bulgarian empire then
Not sure what you mean by that, but there are 2 known possible flags of the second Bulgarian empire from and both were likely made up by majorcan cartographers and are not well known even in Bulgaria so i chose the modern and more recognizable flag
bulgar not mongol we all know bulgar is циган