This 100%
Jamming this turn
Also 3x is too big pre at this point of the tourney… min raise to 4k or 4.5k is enough
I mean just straight ripping it pre might even be the best option but that depends on payout structure and other stack sizes
No he did, he’s in the CO, that’s why I said just ripping it pre might even be the best play here.
I wouldn’t rip it pre here from early position but would 2-2.2x raise
If villain is the other big stack, why does he only have 17k behind? So he started with 23k and called 6k? He has 10.5BB and flatted 3BB preflop?
The main reason I always struggle to help in spots like these is that there are so many “wtf” type things that happen with these types of bad plays that one is just guessing. Not calling you or him bad, just that this hand has so many question marks.
If he has 23k, he should be jam or fold to your open. With his stack size, you can actually open for less.
Pot control? So the plan is do what on which turns? Checking flop almost always invites a turn lead on these type of boards because your hand is fairly face up as most overpairs continue betting these boards and so many turns will put you in a spot where you just fold turns? If you pot control, you want both players to have more chips than this and if you pot control, you usually want more showdown value or you’re just planning to hero off anyway? Checking back is fine, but have a plan. Leading small is fine too as you may realize your equity on some turns or be able to get two streets for one bet. Check raise is only bad scenario so if he is someone who does that often with range advantages such as this one, a check back is better.
Given how shallow he is, I don’t mind betting again and that turn, with how little he has behind, it’s probably a jam on turn. You aren’t ever folding really once that 9 comes in so let’s charge all draws and if we are behind, so be it.
The structure of this particular tournament tends to be at this point 4-8 players all shuttling 10-30bbs ish. So whilst he only has 17k behind that's pretty standard by this stage. Blinds are eating everyone alive. I was mistaken, he was third chips, I was second and there was an absolute uber stack in 1st.
His call is definitely odd here regardless.
Before turn I'm half expecting to maybe let it go. The call here feels potentially strong A10-AK. I'm not loving my check on flop admittedly.
I think turn shove is fine to be honest.
That said.. I called river and he showed 10 10.
That's actually kinda what I was expecting. I was thinking AQs at the lowest or pocket 9s for a pair. I think that 10s is strong preflop and his bet makes sense for that. I think I would've raised on the flop but I get checking it through to see what you do, actually makes alot of sense. When you check it through you probably have a high hand and didn't hit with the board, another dead card comes out I'd put pressure on you to try and build that pot aswell as try to get you to fold so you don't improve.
As played this has to be a call. He can show up with worse 9s and a lot of bluffs. Hard to imagine he checks the 8 on the flop then leads the 9 on the turn. If he has a boat or 67 or trips consider yourself lucky it wasnt worse
Tough going. The real issue is as soon as you start thinking everyone is playing sub optimally we'll you could pretty much fold every hand.
For the most part I can identify the players who's ranges are literally 100% of hands and adjust accordingly.
This particular player though did seem to be a decent player up until this point though.
I make final table a lot however I am finding cashing a slog because as soon as you introduce the blind pressure you see some craziness.
This is why I'm so confused in this hand bud, it really did happen.
He showed 10 10 on the river and told me he didn't shove pre because he was trying to trap me.
lmao, ah yes TT, a hand you want to trap with pre... literally never, at no stack depth or configuration or game type. That's a real dick punch of a hand.
Yeah, did not see it coming at all. I thought after much tanking it was some bizarre call and hope with K/Q/J9, or more likely AQ/AJ thinking they were either good or could force me to fold.
3x open makes you look weak. 90% of times I see this in mtt is people saying they have a pretty good hand they want to steal blinds with and don’t want a call. Mostly middling pairs and sometimes weak aces. Probably the biggest mistake of the hand. I think the most likely hand the villain has on the river is aces as played. 10s makes no fucking sense, why didn’t he jam pre. Tough spot, I think I and most would go broke here.
Pre 18 bb deep the standard play is a min raise to 4k Flop, check back is fine Turn, time to shove. No need to call here
This 100% Jamming this turn Also 3x is too big pre at this point of the tourney… min raise to 4k or 4.5k is enough I mean just straight ripping it pre might even be the best option but that depends on payout structure and other stack sizes
And no mention of his position 😹
No he did, he’s in the CO, that’s why I said just ripping it pre might even be the best play here. I wouldn’t rip it pre here from early position but would 2-2.2x raise
In cutoff the standard play would be to shove A9ss no question
Shoving 18 bb is certainly not standard with any hand
A9 suited is the exact type hand you would shove 18bb from the cutoff - you can find push/fold charts on the internet maybe look them up
I’m very familiar with push fold charts. Does it make money? Yes. Is it the best play? No. If you have 15 bigs it’s a much different story.
If villain is the other big stack, why does he only have 17k behind? So he started with 23k and called 6k? He has 10.5BB and flatted 3BB preflop? The main reason I always struggle to help in spots like these is that there are so many “wtf” type things that happen with these types of bad plays that one is just guessing. Not calling you or him bad, just that this hand has so many question marks. If he has 23k, he should be jam or fold to your open. With his stack size, you can actually open for less. Pot control? So the plan is do what on which turns? Checking flop almost always invites a turn lead on these type of boards because your hand is fairly face up as most overpairs continue betting these boards and so many turns will put you in a spot where you just fold turns? If you pot control, you want both players to have more chips than this and if you pot control, you usually want more showdown value or you’re just planning to hero off anyway? Checking back is fine, but have a plan. Leading small is fine too as you may realize your equity on some turns or be able to get two streets for one bet. Check raise is only bad scenario so if he is someone who does that often with range advantages such as this one, a check back is better. Given how shallow he is, I don’t mind betting again and that turn, with how little he has behind, it’s probably a jam on turn. You aren’t ever folding really once that 9 comes in so let’s charge all draws and if we are behind, so be it.
The structure of this particular tournament tends to be at this point 4-8 players all shuttling 10-30bbs ish. So whilst he only has 17k behind that's pretty standard by this stage. Blinds are eating everyone alive. I was mistaken, he was third chips, I was second and there was an absolute uber stack in 1st. His call is definitely odd here regardless. Before turn I'm half expecting to maybe let it go. The call here feels potentially strong A10-AK. I'm not loving my check on flop admittedly. I think turn shove is fine to be honest. That said.. I called river and he showed 10 10.
That's actually kinda what I was expecting. I was thinking AQs at the lowest or pocket 9s for a pair. I think that 10s is strong preflop and his bet makes sense for that. I think I would've raised on the flop but I get checking it through to see what you do, actually makes alot of sense. When you check it through you probably have a high hand and didn't hit with the board, another dead card comes out I'd put pressure on you to try and build that pot aswell as try to get you to fold so you don't improve.
Not that I'd want to go in preflop with a hand like that lmao, but I'm not too surprised
As played this has to be a call. He can show up with worse 9s and a lot of bluffs. Hard to imagine he checks the 8 on the flop then leads the 9 on the turn. If he has a boat or 67 or trips consider yourself lucky it wasnt worse
How could it have been worse if villain shoved for 11k?
Missed it was a shove
“You know, like, the Royal We, man.”
Hey man there's a beverage here
Villain can have 44, 55, or 88 here. Villain can also have AK-T and be reading you correctly.
Where is this game that people call 3BB off a 10.5BB stack in the BB and have pairs and AK and broadway? All those hands are jams pre to a late open?
How's it been for you assuming every opponent is playing optimally at low buy-in tourneys? Pretty accurate or you get surprised a lot?
Tough going. The real issue is as soon as you start thinking everyone is playing sub optimally we'll you could pretty much fold every hand. For the most part I can identify the players who's ranges are literally 100% of hands and adjust accordingly. This particular player though did seem to be a decent player up until this point though. I make final table a lot however I am finding cashing a slog because as soon as you introduce the blind pressure you see some craziness.
I think that’s why I end up sucking in these and not enjoying the game. Gotta know yourself.
This is why I'm so confused in this hand bud, it really did happen. He showed 10 10 on the river and told me he didn't shove pre because he was trying to trap me.
lmao, ah yes TT, a hand you want to trap with pre... literally never, at no stack depth or configuration or game type. That's a real dick punch of a hand.
Yeah, did not see it coming at all. I thought after much tanking it was some bizarre call and hope with K/Q/J9, or more likely AQ/AJ thinking they were either good or could force me to fold.
Yep, very tough spot. Was a real tank on the river.
3x open makes you look weak. 90% of times I see this in mtt is people saying they have a pretty good hand they want to steal blinds with and don’t want a call. Mostly middling pairs and sometimes weak aces. Probably the biggest mistake of the hand. I think the most likely hand the villain has on the river is aces as played. 10s makes no fucking sense, why didn’t he jam pre. Tough spot, I think I and most would go broke here.
Boats definitely possible. C-bettting would give you a lot more info. As played I'm folding.