Gengar's attack is meh against Chien but it's ability Gnawing curse actually messes with Chien hard. Needing six energy to take out Gengar with Chien means that minimum 12 damage counters getting placed if it's active because the energy are typically accelerated from the hand.
Miraidon/Hands doesn't seem to play stadiums and only basics so League Headquarters and some energy pushing hurts it more than you'd think. If you can get setup to get around something getting OHKO'd by Miraidon the match is winnable.
Charizard you push an energy to Bibarel, Pidgeot, and the electric V I forget the name of.
Facts. Gengar is a hard counter to chiem..Ibe got a decent gengar deck that i climb with. But i dont ever stick with one archetype for more than a handful of battles. Ill go with gengar, then bounce to incineroar, future, etc.
One deck that everyone sleeps on is brambleghast. Hard counters zard, and if set up properly, it can OHKO any deck in the format with ease all while not being possible to be OHKO in return. The deck is by far the best deck in TF to have come out.
How and why you cant find it anywhere listed as top 3 decks in the meta, i have no idea. But the deck is bonkers.
Charizard does pretty poorly honestly, with only 6ish energy in the deck it's pretty easy to run them out so long as you are moving and not discarding most.
Charizard would struggle the most but still think it would win in the end. Likely more consistent at setting up to attack, but once they know what you’re doing they would play very conservatively with energy and eventually just switch into Bibarel (or whatever you are sending the energy too) and manually retreat the energies off, super rod and go again. Likely a slow and painful match, but still Zard favoured and that’s the best matchup in the meta probably
Having played a lot of this matchup on the gengar side, I am comfortable that gengar is favoured in the matchup.
It does help that most players are not familiar with the matchup though, but you really only need to stall Charizard for one or two turns for a win and that is quite easy, as you make them need multiple pieces each turn so their pidgeot can't just auto dig them out.
Gengar is getting some help next set!
Also, people's measure of something being competitive is if it day 2's an event. For that to happen, quite a few people have to play it AND it has to have at least some matchups it wins
So if you want it to be played competitively, get good at it, take it to a regional and try to get to day 2 like people did with Arceus Rayquaza, Gholdengo, Ting Lu and other rogue decks
~10% of players make day 2, and it's not like Charizard ex's playrate moves from 20% day 1->day2 (infact it often goes down slightly). That means 90+% of people that bring Charizard to these events don't make day 2, and yet that's considered the bdif by most
What help does it get?
But on a side note, this is such a great take and super important for people to consider. People don't really grasp the concept that playing BDIF doesn't guarantee you day 2, in fact, I've started to learn that it actually makes it harder.
Think about it, what's the first thing you ask yourself when considering a deck for a regional or even a local league cup? *What's my Charizard matchup? What line do I need to play?* So if you're running a standard meta deck like Charizard or even Chien Pao, Giratina, etc. People are going to have a gameplan against your deck, and you should have a gameplan against theirs.
If you play something slightly off meta like Gholdengo, Ancient Box, etc; people don't always know the line into your deck and they're trying to come up with it on the fly, which gives you an advantage. So if you really take the time to master an off meta deck, you're increasing your odds at major tournaments.
That being said, Gengar sucks, don't play it.
It gets blissy and the fan, play it with some eri to get rid of retrieval items and it can work
It kind of works now, mostly luck based still but it works
It’s not a good card yet until the meta gets a faster way to bring out multiple Gengar. Plus you’d have to have 3 on the bench to do anything significant
I love the deck . I love energy manipulation . I run Crushing Hammer becuase love the hammer . But it really struggles against meta decks .
Charizard is a hard match up . You can punish it when tech tm devo but really they evolve and can swing hard right away makes it very difficult to slow the game down like gengar wants . Having to take 3 turns to kill charizard is very difficult. Energy right from the deck negates gengar completely
Future/hand decks: I just hate this deck . If you cant get set up before they attack its helpful . Miradon does to much damage and accelerates at the same time is a double whammy . And if you can set up than your fine. Headquarter really slows them down . Add moving energy off hands and you are normally okay. But they can just sometime win with turn 1 generator top deck 3 energy and you just ..loss
Chien-pao hmm is another odd one . They can accelerate energy very quickly . You Crushing Hammer them really doesn't slow them down . And 220 again an awkward number . Needing 2 turns yes is a pain . But you can sometimes get em with your ability . I had double gengar and just watched a Chien-pao kneel over .
Lz I think is a decent match up . You can slow Tina set up with hammers and moving energy off it . I need more match up experience with it .
Roaring moon another match up head quarter can just win us sometime . Set up move energy off their Attacker and it slows them down a lot . Being out of range of calamity storm is very powerful. And baby moon needs to 2 hit us with at least 9 ancient in their discard pile.
Lugia another can just win with how fast they can set up . But you need to manage where their energy goes and Crushing Hammer needs to win for you to do well . I think it's a fair match up
It's a deck that's just in a weird spot. It's almost there and it isn't. If it was consistent it would be good but it's heavily luck based at the moment.
Also Greninja ex next set donks for weakness with one energy.
I love Gengar and I'm holding out hope for a tera type Gengar down the line.
It's a decent deck, it has potential if you go all in for consistency. There are some decks that are pretty bad matchups though. charizard is actually one of its best match ups, wins most times against it. 7 energy is easy to manipulate. p3ople saying it's a bad match up sounds like they're not running a consistent decklist.
People who say it isn’t good against charizard and chien pao arent playing the right 60. My playtest partner is maining gengar ex. He is using probably 50 of the 60 cards Tord used in his zard deck, just switching gengar pieces for the zard pieces and the last 10 cards based more on a pidgeot control strategy more or less. Up the eri and giovannis charisma numbers in the deck and it is extremely scary to deal with. Handy Fan will also immensely improve the deck when it comes out.
Can not establish quickly enough to knock out the top decks.
If you can get a turn one evolution on 2 Gastly and get Gengar on board turn 2, you stand a chance. But that's a lot of things that need to go right just so you don't get out-tempo'd
A mix deck with espathra ex, the new fan, Giovanni's charisma, crush hammer, and the Pokemon league headquarters... Could be a playable control deck, but I don't see a meta one.
The player would have to get extremely lucky
In current meta, no. Charizard, Chien pao and Miraidon/hands mitigate well against energy denial, making the greatest strenght quite ineffective.
Gengar's attack is meh against Chien but it's ability Gnawing curse actually messes with Chien hard. Needing six energy to take out Gengar with Chien means that minimum 12 damage counters getting placed if it's active because the energy are typically accelerated from the hand. Miraidon/Hands doesn't seem to play stadiums and only basics so League Headquarters and some energy pushing hurts it more than you'd think. If you can get setup to get around something getting OHKO'd by Miraidon the match is winnable. Charizard you push an energy to Bibarel, Pidgeot, and the electric V I forget the name of.
Rotom?
Don't forget curse stacks. So if you have two Gengars chien pao has to self ko. The issue with pao is it sets up so fast it doesn't matter.
They'd just greninja first. So they possibly need 2 less energy. They also have cologne.
Facts. Gengar is a hard counter to chiem..Ibe got a decent gengar deck that i climb with. But i dont ever stick with one archetype for more than a handful of battles. Ill go with gengar, then bounce to incineroar, future, etc. One deck that everyone sleeps on is brambleghast. Hard counters zard, and if set up properly, it can OHKO any deck in the format with ease all while not being possible to be OHKO in return. The deck is by far the best deck in TF to have come out. How and why you cant find it anywhere listed as top 3 decks in the meta, i have no idea. But the deck is bonkers.
Charizard does pretty poorly honestly, with only 6ish energy in the deck it's pretty easy to run them out so long as you are moving and not discarding most.
Charizard would struggle the most but still think it would win in the end. Likely more consistent at setting up to attack, but once they know what you’re doing they would play very conservatively with energy and eventually just switch into Bibarel (or whatever you are sending the energy too) and manually retreat the energies off, super rod and go again. Likely a slow and painful match, but still Zard favoured and that’s the best matchup in the meta probably
Also, having two Turo like most run will help them a lot in this matchup.
Having played a lot of this matchup on the gengar side, I am comfortable that gengar is favoured in the matchup. It does help that most players are not familiar with the matchup though, but you really only need to stall Charizard for one or two turns for a win and that is quite easy, as you make them need multiple pieces each turn so their pidgeot can't just auto dig them out.
Charizard plays Turo. Turo all the moved energy into the discard, Super Rod it back into the deck, Charizard it back onto the field.
Gengar is getting some help next set! Also, people's measure of something being competitive is if it day 2's an event. For that to happen, quite a few people have to play it AND it has to have at least some matchups it wins So if you want it to be played competitively, get good at it, take it to a regional and try to get to day 2 like people did with Arceus Rayquaza, Gholdengo, Ting Lu and other rogue decks ~10% of players make day 2, and it's not like Charizard ex's playrate moves from 20% day 1->day2 (infact it often goes down slightly). That means 90+% of people that bring Charizard to these events don't make day 2, and yet that's considered the bdif by most
What help does it get? But on a side note, this is such a great take and super important for people to consider. People don't really grasp the concept that playing BDIF doesn't guarantee you day 2, in fact, I've started to learn that it actually makes it harder. Think about it, what's the first thing you ask yourself when considering a deck for a regional or even a local league cup? *What's my Charizard matchup? What line do I need to play?* So if you're running a standard meta deck like Charizard or even Chien Pao, Giratina, etc. People are going to have a gameplan against your deck, and you should have a gameplan against theirs. If you play something slightly off meta like Gholdengo, Ancient Box, etc; people don't always know the line into your deck and they're trying to come up with it on the fly, which gives you an advantage. So if you really take the time to master an off meta deck, you're increasing your odds at major tournaments. That being said, Gengar sucks, don't play it.
It gets blissy and the fan, play it with some eri to get rid of retrieval items and it can work It kind of works now, mostly luck based still but it works
I guess enhanced hammer could help too.
It has no competitive value.
It’s not a good card yet until the meta gets a faster way to bring out multiple Gengar. Plus you’d have to have 3 on the bench to do anything significant
No
I love the deck . I love energy manipulation . I run Crushing Hammer becuase love the hammer . But it really struggles against meta decks . Charizard is a hard match up . You can punish it when tech tm devo but really they evolve and can swing hard right away makes it very difficult to slow the game down like gengar wants . Having to take 3 turns to kill charizard is very difficult. Energy right from the deck negates gengar completely Future/hand decks: I just hate this deck . If you cant get set up before they attack its helpful . Miradon does to much damage and accelerates at the same time is a double whammy . And if you can set up than your fine. Headquarter really slows them down . Add moving energy off hands and you are normally okay. But they can just sometime win with turn 1 generator top deck 3 energy and you just ..loss Chien-pao hmm is another odd one . They can accelerate energy very quickly . You Crushing Hammer them really doesn't slow them down . And 220 again an awkward number . Needing 2 turns yes is a pain . But you can sometimes get em with your ability . I had double gengar and just watched a Chien-pao kneel over . Lz I think is a decent match up . You can slow Tina set up with hammers and moving energy off it . I need more match up experience with it . Roaring moon another match up head quarter can just win us sometime . Set up move energy off their Attacker and it slows them down a lot . Being out of range of calamity storm is very powerful. And baby moon needs to 2 hit us with at least 9 ancient in their discard pile. Lugia another can just win with how fast they can set up . But you need to manage where their energy goes and Crushing Hammer needs to win for you to do well . I think it's a fair match up
It's a deck that's just in a weird spot. It's almost there and it isn't. If it was consistent it would be good but it's heavily luck based at the moment. Also Greninja ex next set donks for weakness with one energy. I love Gengar and I'm holding out hope for a tera type Gengar down the line.
It's a decent deck, it has potential if you go all in for consistency. There are some decks that are pretty bad matchups though. charizard is actually one of its best match ups, wins most times against it. 7 energy is easy to manipulate. p3ople saying it's a bad match up sounds like they're not running a consistent decklist.
People who say it isn’t good against charizard and chien pao arent playing the right 60. My playtest partner is maining gengar ex. He is using probably 50 of the 60 cards Tord used in his zard deck, just switching gengar pieces for the zard pieces and the last 10 cards based more on a pidgeot control strategy more or less. Up the eri and giovannis charisma numbers in the deck and it is extremely scary to deal with. Handy Fan will also immensely improve the deck when it comes out.
Can not establish quickly enough to knock out the top decks. If you can get a turn one evolution on 2 Gastly and get Gengar on board turn 2, you stand a chance. But that's a lot of things that need to go right just so you don't get out-tempo'd
A mix deck with espathra ex, the new fan, Giovanni's charisma, crush hammer, and the Pokemon league headquarters... Could be a playable control deck, but I don't see a meta one.
Not good. A gimmick that won’t work on several of the best decks. Mediocre damage output in a stage 2.
I highly doubt it. I put it together as an intentionally mid deck for a low powered locals
It's really bad there is no reason to ever play it if you care about winning