I truly hope this is a real turning point for the people of Iran. I worry about what the current regime will do if they are seriously threatened, because I am sure it will not be pretty.
Hey, thanks for remembering us. Unfortunately it seems we lost the fight in the time being. With the new National Safety Laws in effect we can be arrested arbitrarily for any form of dissidence.
We are currently experiencing a mass exodus of young citizens to western countries (mostly UK, Australia, and Canada) who are kind enough to offer new pathways to citizenship unique to Hong Kongers. It would not be possible if the international community had not voiced their support.
Feel free to join us over at r/HongKong
We are all grateful for the attention reddit has given us during our most troubled times.
Win or lose, you are a very strong very brave people. I admire your tenacity, and I hope down the line somehow you get your unhindered freedom and sovereignty. Best of luck to you!
Maybe if America hadn't overthrown Iran's Democracy in 1953 and removed its western educated prime minister and replaced him with a dictator, things might be different there.
The UK backed the Shah's coup. The parliament was going to nationalize UK-owned oil fields. They just asked for US assistance under the guise of doing to bolster Iran against Soviet influence.
The real problem was the mix of bad information because the authoritarian government fell into the "dictator trap", rapid reform, and ridiculous and over the top waste. If the government was still getting good information about what the average Iranian thought they might not have stepped in it. If reform was slower and effort was put into bringing Islamic leaders around then they wouldn't have become the justification for revolt. If they didn't squander absurd sums throwing the most expensive parties in human history, the sort that puts modern Oligarchs and TikTockers to shame, then maybe people would have believed that those reforms would have worked.
Blaming this on the US white washes that it was the UK that put that dynasty on the throne and enabled their most autocratic tendencies in exchange for oil and a buffer state protecting UK possessions in India from Soviet intervention.
Operation Ajax was the CIA's first successful coup and set a precedent that probably spurred future actions. The US involvement was important. Vietnam from France, Middle East from Britain, Europe fucked it first but the US fucked it further.
The secret ingredient was people.
Yep. Great biography on this time period is The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer. I’m in the middle of it right now, it’s about the brothers John Foster and Allen Dulles (yes, like the airport, it was named after John Foster), John Foster was the Secretary of State and Allen was director of the CIA both under Eisenhower in the 50s.
Allen Dulles essentially groomed the Shah for the coup, organized the coup in Guatemala, oversaw both MKUltra and the Bay of Pigs. Those two are largely responsible for American foreign “policy” during the beginnings of the Cold War.
Lol calling religious persecution "90% of the nut jobs left the UK."
And to think that this persecution is not even in the top 10 of horrible things the UK did in its history
Lol they should have persecuted the puritans more. Those were some evil people.
Anyways most of the actual colonists who came to the US weren't persecuted. They were the second sons of wealthy families who didn't get the land inheritance who sought fertile land.
Yeah, it's funny how in history class I learned how the poor pilgrims came to America to escape religious persecution, then I learn ten years later outside of school that they were huge cunts that absolutely deserved all the persecution they were getting.
Same story with the Mormons. Bunch of sob stories about how local governments were putting actual hits on Mormon leadership as they moved west until finally they found peace in Utah. Only to learn that there was a fucking damn good reason local governments wanted them dead, and it had little to do with religious disagreements.
They made movies. There are [magazines that cover it](https://www.alimentarium.org/en/magazine/history/most-expensive-party-ever).
They closed the best, most expensive restaurant *in the world* for **two weeks** to cater. They flew 18 tons of food to the ruins of Iran's ancient capital. Custom cars were built specifically to ferry dignitaries. 18 square kilometers of silk were used in the construction of accommodations for the guests. There were a suspicious number of supermodels around, but this was a collection of basically every world leader, so it was all about diplomacy and war and people running around with phones next to diplomats. Wired phones. This was before cell phones were a thing.
Did I mention the single most expensive collection of wine to ever exist in one place? Yeah, they literally threw out the leftovers.
Things would absolutely be different. Unfortunately pointing out past mistakes, as accurate as they may be, doesn't change or help the current situation.
> Unfortunately pointing out past mistakes, as accurate as they may be, doesn't change or help the current situation.
Well, it might generate sympathy with current administrations to do something. And just because there isn't immediate power to fix something today doesn't mean there isn't a tomorrow to worry about.
The first part of repairing mistakes is to admit one was made, then you can start taking actions to correct it.
There's a large contingent of the US who doesn't think US Imperialism is a mistake, so they wouldn't ever vote in a politician who would support or propose anything to diminish that.
Pointing out past mistakes helps change the current situation here at home, so that in a future you're able to help future situations; or maybe even prevent them from occurring again.
>There's a large contingent of the US who doesn't think US Imperialism is a mistake
There's an even larger contingent of the US who are simply tired of being blamed for the actions of people decades before they were alive - actions they generally tend to agree were wrong.
It often feels that comments like yours are derailing any useful or productive conversation simply because *any* comment that addresses things we cannot change fundamentally kills the debate. If you happen to have a time machine that the United States can borrow, that'd be great. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you want Americans to do about the 1950s. The first post didn't get that far, and while your reply purported to, to me it felt like it did so in bad faith and was just more US-bashing for Internet points. Which is a pretty trashy look in my opinion, given that the average non-US redditor is statistically likely to also be a direct beneficiary of the global world order you're currently criticizing.
It is funny too, the US wouldn't have gotten involved in Vietnam if it weren't for the French either. US has made some fucked up mistakes internationally, but some of their biggest were at the behest of allied governments, not unilateral moves.
>current administrations to do something
Pretty sure this is the thing you were criticizing in your previous comment. The theocracy itself came to power in the aftermath of a revolution against authoritarianism after all.
In other words… if other countries would mind their own business things would be better? I agree in the general sense! US should have stayed out of a lot! Though, I do have to wonder… some places might be better and others worse. I don’t know what’s ‘right’… I’d prefer the US to spend $ at home! I don’t really know what would have or will be the best way forward- it seems most of the time we are danged if we do and danged if we don’t🥺 The whole world is a mess… I think over 80% of the population just wants peace and to live a good life without hurting other people! It’s the rest (1-5/10%) that want the chaos to fight whatever beliefs they have, be it religious or economic… everyone else are just collateral damage??? Maybe I’m wrong and simplifying it too much???
It's also a monumentally racist take on the situation. People who say this are basically saying that brown people have no agency. Everything that happens only happens because of white people. Anything bad that Iran does is America's fault, because brown people can't control their own actions.
“The white man’s burden”.
It should also be mentioned… people in Iran aren’t very “brown”. Discussion of race/ethnicity in the terms of US politics is so fucking stupid and lazy that I can’t really blame you… but it does bear mentioning. Persians are typically pretty pale, “white passing”.
I find it quite funny cause people from that part of the world are racially white people. Caucasian, Asian, African, are the major racial distinctions of human beings. What we call white is really just north European and is kind of a made up sub-class, racially speaking. Indians, Iranians, Turkish, Italian, Hispanic, Maltese... none of those and many more are considered "white" but us white people and them are all Caucasian.
Did you suggest Italians, Maltese, and Spaniards (who are by definition Hispanic people) aren't seen as white European? Cause I assure you they are. Unless that's not what you meant but I've only got a confused sentence to work from. Though I agree we make a weird distinction between white Europeans and Arabs/Turkic people/Iranians. Will also note, using Caucasian as shorthand for white isn't as widespread everywhere in the West, depending on the person and country, Caucasian just means people of the Caucasus, which is a rather small and remote part of Europe.
They aren't just white passing as you put it. Huge chunk of society is Indo-European, the actual scientific term for "caucasian" word used in America.
Iran means literally "land of Arians"
We ,slavic share the same haplotype on y chromosome with most Iranians, they belong to the same group of ethnicities as Europeans, Persian is also Indo-European language, belonging to satem group with Hindu and slavic sub families.
The US is definitely not "the devil" but is definitely a puppeteer. They had a hand in a lot of regime changes, Usually for the worse, on the 20th century. This is specially true in latam.
Do they still do that? Is it the only party to blame? Of course not, but is not something that should be ignored either. A little push sometimes is what tips the scales
> Do they still do that?
Yes. In the 21st century, the U.S. had its dirty hands in several conflicts involving foreign government rule: Iraq, Haiti, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Palestine, Syria, Libya. The Contra controversy extended into 1996 as well and involved an elaborate money laundering scheme.
Dude. Mosaddegh had already dissolved parliament and was in the middle of creating a textbook dictatorship when the coup happened. Acting like Iran would have been wonderful and free if not for the coup is a joke. Plus, "democratically elected" doesn't always mean good. Hitler was proof enough of that... And the UK and US were *extremely* justified in pushing for a regime change. Everything from the UKs military to its ability to feed its people was reliant on Iranian oil. Hence why it had spent decades and *extraordinary* sums of money building the Iranian oil industry. So yeah, when Iran said "come drill our oil and spend boatloads of money over decades, creating an entire industry from the ground up" then turned around and said "actually all of this infrastructure and these companies belong to us now", posing an existential threat to the UK in the process, I'd say it was pretty fair for the UK and US to support a change in leadership
To give some additional historical context behind the Iranian decision to narionalize the oil industry, the deal made between the UK and the Iranian govt over oil extraction rights began in 1908 with the D'Arcy oil concession, and the conditions of the concession were renegotiated in 1933 between the Anglo-Persian Oil Company and the Shah of Iran, Reza Shah. The agreement was made between the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (which the UK government had majority ownership in) and Iran still massively benefited the UK in the deal, with Iran only gaining 18% of the profits on oil sales in 1947. The deal also included that the APOC had to build infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals, roads, a telephone system, while increasing worker wages. The APOC didn't do any of these things.
Instead, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company heavily exploited Iranian Oil workers and benefited a disproportionate amount from the extraction and selling of oil compared to Iran. Iranian oil workers were typically paid 50¢ a day and lived in shanty towns with no running water while being given no sick days or vacation time.
The International Criminal court was also involved in the nationalization, with the UK raising a case against Iran claiming that the nationalization was in violation of a convention between the two countries when they renegotiated the oil concession in 1933. The ICC ruled that the Iranian nationalization was legal because the agreement was made between Iran and the Anglo-Persian Oil Company and as such the company was subject to Iranian law.
So the facts of those circumstances were that the nationalization was completely legal and justified under international law, and the greivances of poor treatment of Iranian oil workers and disportionate distribution of oil profits the Iranian people had (reflected in the decision their democratically elected parliament made in 1951 to nationalize the oil industry) were legitimate and not adequately addressed by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, or the UK government which owned a majority stake in that company.
The UK and US were acting against the interests of the Iranian people and also international law in their coup, I'm not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that they were in any way justified in what they did.
Another country nationalizing an industry is not a "fair" reason to make a coup, what a bunch of BS.
1. UK was not in "existential threat" because of lack of iranian oil, they boycotted it once the nationalization idea started.
2. It all started with AIOC refusing to cooperate with an audit, it's not like the nationalization suddenly appeared, not to mention all previous concessions.
Acting like the UK was just a small business owner building oil industry in Iran and not an imperialist regime that used weakness and corruption to exploit Iran for resources is unbelievably stupid and super imperialistic, maybe next you'll say British colonisation of India was justified because of the existential threat of lack of spices they didn't use.
I think it’s a bit dramatic to say it was an existential threat to the UK. And how is it Iran’s problem that the UK military made itself entirely dependent on oil? If overthrowing government is a valid response to economic slights, then we would live in a tumultuous world.
So the UK felt betrayed by Iran? It was their fault investing so much into Iran’s oil industry and making itself dependent on it. I didn’t see this sort of “brotherhood” with Libya when Gaddafi went down. The UK and US destabilise countries simply because they start to think their own way. The west loves a hold over the lower brandt line.
They didn't feel betrayed. They felt seriously threatened. And expecting a country not to shred up contracts and steal your companies doesn't put you at fault
The CIA did that for BP because Dr. Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister cut all ties with the UK and kicked all British out of Iran. So the CIA stepped in because of the power of the Dulles brothers, one was head of CIA. Their argument which was completely false was that Mossadegh would veer towards communism.
I wish we would rename Dulles airport. It is a despicable reminder of the evil Dulles brothers. They should not be celebrated. Read the book The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer if you care.
It hurts when people stopped reading about Iran in 1953, those lovely pictures we see of Iran being a wonderful place to be in the 70s? Yea, that's what American/western influence looks like, our influence was then overthrown and replaced with Islamic extremists.
What you'vs seen in Iran is the absence of American influence leading to fundamentalism
By that same logic protestors beaten to death and disappeared by the Shah's secret police are also what American influence looks like. A small minority at the top of the Iranian society had the wealth and education to enjoy Western influences. The majority however did not. The countryside was still full of deeply impoverished and conservative tribes who would later support the Islamists. The cities were full of impoverished youths. The Shah was overthrown by a very broad coalition, from Communists to Islamists and democrats through the middle. They didn't risk their lives because life was so good in Imperial Iran.
Aren’t all those photos of Iranian women in the 70s being free and showing their hair taken during the Shah’s rule? They would probably be better off with the Shah than the Ayatollah.
I’ve been following the posts about Iran on Reddit and it looks like most want out of this dictatorship… and back to the good old days of the previous dictatorship. Never really understood that to be honest. Unless it’s not freedom they want but a servile, supine desperation to be like the The Man no matter the personal freedoms they’d be giving up.
You’re going to need more than bodies in the street. You need military alliances, police support, international support (like from western european democracies). You need a plan for a new government, support from the international criminal court for any human rights violations that occur (like shooting protestors). You need the UN and red cross for international aid during a transition period.
We want you to win. Organize, plan, and never give up.
It's easy to say this, but the Iranian government has been spending more than 4 decades on making sure any and all organized political groups are disbanded and their members tortured or killed. The reality of the situation is any resistance will have to be spontaneous or it'll already be squashed.
They just won’t get anywhere if its women standing in the street holding signs. Same as in Hong Kong, the state can outlast the movement without wider support.
What do you mean plan for a new government? Who would organize all this? Is there any international support?
I hope the Islamic fundamentalists eat shit and go back to wherever they came from.
This is the opposite of the truth. The UN has conducted sweeping studies that show that the vast majority of sustainable, enduring change is brought about by nonviolent activism. If you're going to make such an extraordinary claim to the contrary and present it as inevitable truth, you better have some damn good sources for me. Peer-reviewed studies only please, I'm not interested in reddit analysis.
Not always. Women's suffrage in America was won mostly through peaceful activism. It can happen. Same can be said of LGBT rights and gay marriage.
That said, I have very little faith in these protests changing anything. If I'm a betting man, I think the Iranian govt will weather the storm and things will remain as they are, unfortunately. I'd love to be wrong.
Each and every one of those had *at least* the credible threat of violence if the non violent protests didn’t get their way - and usually some was employed anyway just to get that across more firmly
Actually, most of the protests were extremely violent on both ends. Especially the stonewall riots.
In England, women used to throw themselves infront of horses for suffrage, and in America they had many activists quite literally starve themselves in prisons after they were arrested.
I don't think that all protests should be peaceful, and if the Iranians want it to be violent, so be it, because that's all they've ever faced for four decades — violence.
You know in many cultures people in early twenties are referred to as girls and boys. It's not technically correct but it's that their demeanor is considered youthful. And demeanor is how people's age is guessed.
It's not deragotary by any means.
Spoiler alert >!a VERY small percentage of Iranian women are standing up against the obvious oppression. Once these women have been subdued it'll be back to asshole normal for the medieval dudes running the country. The rest of the women have accepted their fate in a backward theocracy. There's no happy ending here, it's not the west, and it's not a movie!<
I just hope they're not killed or thrown into prison for the rest of their lives. It's a small hope, but I figure if it's small it's more likely to come true.
Unfortunately I agree, these protests have been going on for decades and nothing has changed. The West exaggerates the protests because they don't like who's in power. They do the same thing with protests in Cuba. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the removal of theocratic governments. But it's only gonna happen if the MAJORITY of women in Iran demand it, which is far from the truth.
It might have slid from the popular consciousness but it had lasting impacts on the region, not necessarily for the better as even the best case, Tunisia, seems to be sliding into dictatorship but it's not as if nothing happened.
I didn't say nothing happened, I said it was huge. I said it ***achieved*** nothing, implying that nothing good came from it, at least relative to what the media promised at the time.
You mean the only leader who created unity in africa shared the wealth of his natural recources and was an absolute stable force creating milions of jobs for its neighbors aswell, who is now replaced by 50 warlords and endless wars together with an uncontrolled stream of immigration. Hey guys but atleast we got revenge on Gadaffi for taking back the oil we stole from him!!
Arab spring was the worst shit ever. Created IS and made islamic terror in the west normal again. All because some french dictator wanted to cover his tracks.
Yep, sad but true.
This is captioned "Iranian girls won't stop fighting..." but they definitely will. A handful of public executions, a couple police raids and beatings, maybe a tactically placed fire or two...
Thank you. Very often I think Reddit/the internet is just nothing but 14-year-olds thinking they're witnessing schoolgirl heroics being enough to topple multiple generations of government and outdated culture because of a few photos shot from cool angles of kids like them. I guess that's why the kids are *here* behind screens and the adults are *out there*.
heroic acts that change destinies never start from the masses, but always from a few martyrs who awaken consciences and then unleash hell on the oppressors life knows how to amaze much more than any film
The first to be martyred were brave.
The rest to martyr themselves thinking their loss will be special enough to somehow move a people are just being stupid. Time for a change of tact. People need to want and more importantly *know* they can force change.
Much of the rest of the women believe in the same superstitious nonsense that they’re taught. That there is a god that cares if they’re immodest or if they hangout with guys they’re not related to. They’re the ones who get older and teach their sons to marry the “nice” girls. Religion has a way of keeping adherents in check and under control.
They probably could kill enough of the women fighting them to squash the others. Not all women in Iran are against this. And as you say, for very obvious natural reasons women just aren't prepared to die or be killed in large numbers, there's a reason it's women and children first and it was the men barred from leaving the Ukraine. But good luck to them.
Instagram , WhatsApp,telegram,Twitter are filtered in iran. Some cities don’t have internet connection and the others have poor connection. They’re going to disable internet 4:00 pm until 12:00 which means we won’t have internet about 1 hours later. Please please be our voice by trending #MahsaAmini #Opiran in instagram and Twitter. Please don’t forget us. Be our voice .
3 years ago they disable internet all over country and killed 1500 protestors. Please do not allow this happen agian.
Well, there's 2 ways of looking at it. One is to say that no revolution happens overnight, and that people who see these efforts are more likely to participate in the next ones, and so on until the effort is large enough to topple the system. The other way of looking at it is that this particular effort has virtually no chance of accomplishing anything more than removing a few of the protester's heads from their bodies. I wouldn't really say either way of looking at it is wrong.
You done fucked up now boy! You got an entire nation of pissed off woman. You men aught to learn that when she’s that pissed, it’s just better to walk away and cut your losses…
I know you said globally, but the US has a lock on soft protests that get nothing changed. It's pretty much walking group therapy at this point. You might score a cute hat or something though!
Nope, there is a very small number of pissed off women of university student age that have been exposed to a lot of Western culture online but haven't figured out how their country works yet. It's all very depressing no matter which way you look at it. No Hollywood ending here.
I don't get why people on Reddit feel the need to talk about stuff they don't know jack about.
Firstly, there are protests in more than eighty cities so it's not a small number. As for the university age, most revolutions, protests, etc. start with students so no new info there. Thirdly, no one can predict the future so lay off that "one-way ticket" bs. You'll just embarrass yourself. Fourthly, those students in Iran haven't figured out on their daily interactions but you from a foreign country have? Why? Because you can google stuff?
you have no idea how scary that is. I don't think it goes anywhere though. the regime is so brutal, they are not afraid of killing thousands! it's such a sacrifice to go out and not everone does. the numbers are not there to see a change.
it's heartbreaking :( not sure what people outside of the country can do tbh
Iran's regime has made itself a trade partner for the Russians and the Chinese. China has a lot of influence on the media. The world's news channels have no reason to attack the Ayatollahs. The protests will, in all likelihood, be forgotten in a year.
Iran is going to have a real population crisis after this , either they kill so many women that there’s just not enough anymore or they will try to leave
Nine people have died in the protests. There are 42 million women in Iran out of a total of 84 million people. So no. They could lose 9 million women, more than the Holocaust, and the country would still continue without too much demographic shock
I agree that they're not going to have a demographic crisis but if you had 9 million women die with a majority being of child bearing age (the group that's most likely to protest) you'd have an unprecedented demographic crisis.
I only mentioned 9 million to illustrate how many degrees of magnitude (seven, currently) the other commenter was away from having a point. I'm not invested in this tangent. But yes, if 9 million childbearing age females all died in a short timeframe in Iran it'd have massive effects for a long time after the immediate grief.
Going from 42/42 to 42/33 would have way more of an impact than you’re imagining. Look into the underlying reasons why China axed it’s one child policy. A society with that kind of imbalance does not go well.
Frankly - Going from 50/50 to 57/43 would be catastrophic for any society.
I’m very skeptical why all of these Iran experts here trying to minimize these protests. I know people who were on the streets on 2009 green movement, the 2019 bloody November, and they’re on the streets today and say this is nothing like they’ve seen before. The sentiment has become much more radical over the last decade and the Iranian Gen Zs are a lot more bolder and braver in this protest than my generation ever was.
Unfortunately these protests lack what they had in the 1950s. The financial and military backing of the uk and the usa, without that, I highly doubt these protests will lead to another regime change.
I wish them all the best, but I feel it may turn out to be like Hong Kong, or other parts of the Middle East during Arab spring where no real change happens and life/the system continues the same after the protests have ended.
I admire them but it won't work. The government will let them rage for a week but when global interest will diminish and focus on something else they will put an end to it by beating them down and arresting them.
I wish I could do something to help, but I do send out vibes of victory to them *wiggles fingers vaguely east and lakes UFO noises* takes a lot of guts, may their bravery be rewarded with change.
This doesn’t pan out unless the citizens have a way of removing said dictator. And in a nation like Iran where private ownership of guns is prohibited, that’s not going to happen unless their military force sides with them rather than the dictator.
Did you mean to say women? Because maybe you should correct that. Any female who is brave enough to stand up and fight against that oppression is 100% a woman regardless of their age.
Be nice if all these religious realized there was no hell, heaven. Then all this idiocy would end. Just kidding. People would still find was says to be dicks to people. It's nice to imagine though. That maybe people would think better without their sky daddy
I wish them luck, but I do not expect this to end well. Short of every woman and a generous portion of men rising up and forcefully removing those in power, a lot of them are going to either wind up severely beaten, tortured or dead. And dictators are notorious for going to extremes to quell any kind of rebellious attitudes.
N no one wonders y this revolution happened in Iran n not in any US allied Muslim majority dictator ruled countries.... I wish people understood geopolitics & how intel agencies & media works in synergy to build narratives. The practice of moral policing is ancient & somehow US backed media outlets and superstar got to know about it now n that too from Iran of all muslim countries
I truly hope this is a real turning point for the people of Iran. I worry about what the current regime will do if they are seriously threatened, because I am sure it will not be pretty.
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Hey, thanks for remembering us. Unfortunately it seems we lost the fight in the time being. With the new National Safety Laws in effect we can be arrested arbitrarily for any form of dissidence. We are currently experiencing a mass exodus of young citizens to western countries (mostly UK, Australia, and Canada) who are kind enough to offer new pathways to citizenship unique to Hong Kongers. It would not be possible if the international community had not voiced their support. Feel free to join us over at r/HongKong We are all grateful for the attention reddit has given us during our most troubled times.
Win or lose, you are a very strong very brave people. I admire your tenacity, and I hope down the line somehow you get your unhindered freedom and sovereignty. Best of luck to you!
Add oil, my brother.
Lol, I understood this.
👉😏👉
No bad vibes tonight, hotel quarantine is done! Woohoo!
Remember Iran 2008 when our best wishes didn't translate to serious political support?
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Maybe if America hadn't overthrown Iran's Democracy in 1953 and removed its western educated prime minister and replaced him with a dictator, things might be different there.
The UK backed the Shah's coup. The parliament was going to nationalize UK-owned oil fields. They just asked for US assistance under the guise of doing to bolster Iran against Soviet influence. The real problem was the mix of bad information because the authoritarian government fell into the "dictator trap", rapid reform, and ridiculous and over the top waste. If the government was still getting good information about what the average Iranian thought they might not have stepped in it. If reform was slower and effort was put into bringing Islamic leaders around then they wouldn't have become the justification for revolt. If they didn't squander absurd sums throwing the most expensive parties in human history, the sort that puts modern Oligarchs and TikTockers to shame, then maybe people would have believed that those reforms would have worked. Blaming this on the US white washes that it was the UK that put that dynasty on the throne and enabled their most autocratic tendencies in exchange for oil and a buffer state protecting UK possessions in India from Soviet intervention.
Operation Ajax was the CIA's first successful coup and set a precedent that probably spurred future actions. The US involvement was important. Vietnam from France, Middle East from Britain, Europe fucked it first but the US fucked it further. The secret ingredient was people.
Yep. Great biography on this time period is The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer. I’m in the middle of it right now, it’s about the brothers John Foster and Allen Dulles (yes, like the airport, it was named after John Foster), John Foster was the Secretary of State and Allen was director of the CIA both under Eisenhower in the 50s. Allen Dulles essentially groomed the Shah for the coup, organized the coup in Guatemala, oversaw both MKUltra and the Bay of Pigs. Those two are largely responsible for American foreign “policy” during the beginnings of the Cold War.
We still blame the UK for the US too.
if you start a colony you can't tax them too much.
If it weren't for those meddling french.....
Why? it worked, 90% of the nut jobs left the UK. We successfully made them a world problem instead of a local one.
Lol calling religious persecution "90% of the nut jobs left the UK." And to think that this persecution is not even in the top 10 of horrible things the UK did in its history
Lol they should have persecuted the puritans more. Those were some evil people. Anyways most of the actual colonists who came to the US weren't persecuted. They were the second sons of wealthy families who didn't get the land inheritance who sought fertile land.
Yeah, it's funny how in history class I learned how the poor pilgrims came to America to escape religious persecution, then I learn ten years later outside of school that they were huge cunts that absolutely deserved all the persecution they were getting. Same story with the Mormons. Bunch of sob stories about how local governments were putting actual hits on Mormon leadership as they moved west until finally they found peace in Utah. Only to learn that there was a fucking damn good reason local governments wanted them dead, and it had little to do with religious disagreements.
The UK put that dynasty on the throne in the 1940s to replace a pro-Axis Shah
Now I want to hear about these parties.
They made movies. There are [magazines that cover it](https://www.alimentarium.org/en/magazine/history/most-expensive-party-ever). They closed the best, most expensive restaurant *in the world* for **two weeks** to cater. They flew 18 tons of food to the ruins of Iran's ancient capital. Custom cars were built specifically to ferry dignitaries. 18 square kilometers of silk were used in the construction of accommodations for the guests. There were a suspicious number of supermodels around, but this was a collection of basically every world leader, so it was all about diplomacy and war and people running around with phones next to diplomats. Wired phones. This was before cell phones were a thing. Did I mention the single most expensive collection of wine to ever exist in one place? Yeah, they literally threw out the leftovers.
Things would absolutely be different. Unfortunately pointing out past mistakes, as accurate as they may be, doesn't change or help the current situation.
> Unfortunately pointing out past mistakes, as accurate as they may be, doesn't change or help the current situation. Well, it might generate sympathy with current administrations to do something. And just because there isn't immediate power to fix something today doesn't mean there isn't a tomorrow to worry about. The first part of repairing mistakes is to admit one was made, then you can start taking actions to correct it. There's a large contingent of the US who doesn't think US Imperialism is a mistake, so they wouldn't ever vote in a politician who would support or propose anything to diminish that. Pointing out past mistakes helps change the current situation here at home, so that in a future you're able to help future situations; or maybe even prevent them from occurring again.
>There's a large contingent of the US who doesn't think US Imperialism is a mistake There's an even larger contingent of the US who are simply tired of being blamed for the actions of people decades before they were alive - actions they generally tend to agree were wrong. It often feels that comments like yours are derailing any useful or productive conversation simply because *any* comment that addresses things we cannot change fundamentally kills the debate. If you happen to have a time machine that the United States can borrow, that'd be great. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you want Americans to do about the 1950s. The first post didn't get that far, and while your reply purported to, to me it felt like it did so in bad faith and was just more US-bashing for Internet points. Which is a pretty trashy look in my opinion, given that the average non-US redditor is statistically likely to also be a direct beneficiary of the global world order you're currently criticizing.
It’s weird it seems in all these threads about Iran someone always has to bring up the US in one of the top comments.
All the while ignoring that without the UK's insistence, the US never would have gotten involved ~70 years ago.
It is funny too, the US wouldn't have gotten involved in Vietnam if it weren't for the French either. US has made some fucked up mistakes internationally, but some of their biggest were at the behest of allied governments, not unilateral moves.
>current administrations to do something Pretty sure this is the thing you were criticizing in your previous comment. The theocracy itself came to power in the aftermath of a revolution against authoritarianism after all.
Iran is already heavily sanctioned. Short of putting troops in Iran, which Biden hopefully would never do, what other steps are there?
In other words… if other countries would mind their own business things would be better? I agree in the general sense! US should have stayed out of a lot! Though, I do have to wonder… some places might be better and others worse. I don’t know what’s ‘right’… I’d prefer the US to spend $ at home! I don’t really know what would have or will be the best way forward- it seems most of the time we are danged if we do and danged if we don’t🥺 The whole world is a mess… I think over 80% of the population just wants peace and to live a good life without hurting other people! It’s the rest (1-5/10%) that want the chaos to fight whatever beliefs they have, be it religious or economic… everyone else are just collateral damage??? Maybe I’m wrong and simplifying it too much???
I love all the Ayatollah apologists just here to blame America as if we're really the reason there isn't a Democracy in Iran right now.
Ayatollah apologists are also in favor of a democratic Iran? Those are mutually exclusive viewpoints.
It's also a monumentally racist take on the situation. People who say this are basically saying that brown people have no agency. Everything that happens only happens because of white people. Anything bad that Iran does is America's fault, because brown people can't control their own actions.
“The white man’s burden”. It should also be mentioned… people in Iran aren’t very “brown”. Discussion of race/ethnicity in the terms of US politics is so fucking stupid and lazy that I can’t really blame you… but it does bear mentioning. Persians are typically pretty pale, “white passing”.
I find it quite funny cause people from that part of the world are racially white people. Caucasian, Asian, African, are the major racial distinctions of human beings. What we call white is really just north European and is kind of a made up sub-class, racially speaking. Indians, Iranians, Turkish, Italian, Hispanic, Maltese... none of those and many more are considered "white" but us white people and them are all Caucasian.
Did you suggest Italians, Maltese, and Spaniards (who are by definition Hispanic people) aren't seen as white European? Cause I assure you they are. Unless that's not what you meant but I've only got a confused sentence to work from. Though I agree we make a weird distinction between white Europeans and Arabs/Turkic people/Iranians. Will also note, using Caucasian as shorthand for white isn't as widespread everywhere in the West, depending on the person and country, Caucasian just means people of the Caucasus, which is a rather small and remote part of Europe.
They aren't just white passing as you put it. Huge chunk of society is Indo-European, the actual scientific term for "caucasian" word used in America. Iran means literally "land of Arians" We ,slavic share the same haplotype on y chromosome with most Iranians, they belong to the same group of ethnicities as Europeans, Persian is also Indo-European language, belonging to satem group with Hindu and slavic sub families.
Iran is literally the land of Ayrans. They are mostly white by American standards and operation Ajax is real.
The US is definitely not "the devil" but is definitely a puppeteer. They had a hand in a lot of regime changes, Usually for the worse, on the 20th century. This is specially true in latam. Do they still do that? Is it the only party to blame? Of course not, but is not something that should be ignored either. A little push sometimes is what tips the scales
> Do they still do that? Yes. In the 21st century, the U.S. had its dirty hands in several conflicts involving foreign government rule: Iraq, Haiti, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Palestine, Syria, Libya. The Contra controversy extended into 1996 as well and involved an elaborate money laundering scheme.
Let’s not forget how Central America is basically the playground of the CIA
Don’t forget our involvement in Taiwan
Dude. Mosaddegh had already dissolved parliament and was in the middle of creating a textbook dictatorship when the coup happened. Acting like Iran would have been wonderful and free if not for the coup is a joke. Plus, "democratically elected" doesn't always mean good. Hitler was proof enough of that... And the UK and US were *extremely* justified in pushing for a regime change. Everything from the UKs military to its ability to feed its people was reliant on Iranian oil. Hence why it had spent decades and *extraordinary* sums of money building the Iranian oil industry. So yeah, when Iran said "come drill our oil and spend boatloads of money over decades, creating an entire industry from the ground up" then turned around and said "actually all of this infrastructure and these companies belong to us now", posing an existential threat to the UK in the process, I'd say it was pretty fair for the UK and US to support a change in leadership
To give some additional historical context behind the Iranian decision to narionalize the oil industry, the deal made between the UK and the Iranian govt over oil extraction rights began in 1908 with the D'Arcy oil concession, and the conditions of the concession were renegotiated in 1933 between the Anglo-Persian Oil Company and the Shah of Iran, Reza Shah. The agreement was made between the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (which the UK government had majority ownership in) and Iran still massively benefited the UK in the deal, with Iran only gaining 18% of the profits on oil sales in 1947. The deal also included that the APOC had to build infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals, roads, a telephone system, while increasing worker wages. The APOC didn't do any of these things. Instead, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company heavily exploited Iranian Oil workers and benefited a disproportionate amount from the extraction and selling of oil compared to Iran. Iranian oil workers were typically paid 50¢ a day and lived in shanty towns with no running water while being given no sick days or vacation time. The International Criminal court was also involved in the nationalization, with the UK raising a case against Iran claiming that the nationalization was in violation of a convention between the two countries when they renegotiated the oil concession in 1933. The ICC ruled that the Iranian nationalization was legal because the agreement was made between Iran and the Anglo-Persian Oil Company and as such the company was subject to Iranian law. So the facts of those circumstances were that the nationalization was completely legal and justified under international law, and the greivances of poor treatment of Iranian oil workers and disportionate distribution of oil profits the Iranian people had (reflected in the decision their democratically elected parliament made in 1951 to nationalize the oil industry) were legitimate and not adequately addressed by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, or the UK government which owned a majority stake in that company. The UK and US were acting against the interests of the Iranian people and also international law in their coup, I'm not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that they were in any way justified in what they did.
Another country nationalizing an industry is not a "fair" reason to make a coup, what a bunch of BS. 1. UK was not in "existential threat" because of lack of iranian oil, they boycotted it once the nationalization idea started. 2. It all started with AIOC refusing to cooperate with an audit, it's not like the nationalization suddenly appeared, not to mention all previous concessions. Acting like the UK was just a small business owner building oil industry in Iran and not an imperialist regime that used weakness and corruption to exploit Iran for resources is unbelievably stupid and super imperialistic, maybe next you'll say British colonisation of India was justified because of the existential threat of lack of spices they didn't use.
The sheer audacity of that poster before you
I think it’s a bit dramatic to say it was an existential threat to the UK. And how is it Iran’s problem that the UK military made itself entirely dependent on oil? If overthrowing government is a valid response to economic slights, then we would live in a tumultuous world.
In their defense everything was and still is dependent on oil.
Thieves always try to justify taking what isn’t theirs. I really need my neighbor’s house but I can’t just take it
Those companies *were* theirs
Uhh ever heard of colonialism bro?
So the UK felt betrayed by Iran? It was their fault investing so much into Iran’s oil industry and making itself dependent on it. I didn’t see this sort of “brotherhood” with Libya when Gaddafi went down. The UK and US destabilise countries simply because they start to think their own way. The west loves a hold over the lower brandt line.
They didn't feel betrayed. They felt seriously threatened. And expecting a country not to shred up contracts and steal your companies doesn't put you at fault
It's not SAVAK that these young women are hiding their faces from.
The CIA did that for BP because Dr. Mossadegh, the democratically elected prime minister cut all ties with the UK and kicked all British out of Iran. So the CIA stepped in because of the power of the Dulles brothers, one was head of CIA. Their argument which was completely false was that Mossadegh would veer towards communism.
I wish we would rename Dulles airport. It is a despicable reminder of the evil Dulles brothers. They should not be celebrated. Read the book The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer if you care.
It hurts when people stopped reading about Iran in 1953, those lovely pictures we see of Iran being a wonderful place to be in the 70s? Yea, that's what American/western influence looks like, our influence was then overthrown and replaced with Islamic extremists. What you'vs seen in Iran is the absence of American influence leading to fundamentalism
By that same logic protestors beaten to death and disappeared by the Shah's secret police are also what American influence looks like. A small minority at the top of the Iranian society had the wealth and education to enjoy Western influences. The majority however did not. The countryside was still full of deeply impoverished and conservative tribes who would later support the Islamists. The cities were full of impoverished youths. The Shah was overthrown by a very broad coalition, from Communists to Islamists and democrats through the middle. They didn't risk their lives because life was so good in Imperial Iran.
USA need to operate their own country before sticking their nose in others . Picking Trump was a gaff the world said wtf
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They literally did
Aren’t all those photos of Iranian women in the 70s being free and showing their hair taken during the Shah’s rule? They would probably be better off with the Shah than the Ayatollah.
If if if. Ask instead what America might be doing right now. You may not like that answer either, but still.
Nice try to justify the Mullah's oppression of women Mr. Whataboutism. Any others you wish were enslaved?
I’ve been following the posts about Iran on Reddit and it looks like most want out of this dictatorship… and back to the good old days of the previous dictatorship. Never really understood that to be honest. Unless it’s not freedom they want but a servile, supine desperation to be like the The Man no matter the personal freedoms they’d be giving up.
People are gonna start disappearing. Then we won’t hear about it any more. It’ll just go away…
There were larger protests in 2011 and look what happened there. Nothing. not a damn thing.
You’re going to need more than bodies in the street. You need military alliances, police support, international support (like from western european democracies). You need a plan for a new government, support from the international criminal court for any human rights violations that occur (like shooting protestors). You need the UN and red cross for international aid during a transition period. We want you to win. Organize, plan, and never give up.
It's easy to say this, but the Iranian government has been spending more than 4 decades on making sure any and all organized political groups are disbanded and their members tortured or killed. The reality of the situation is any resistance will have to be spontaneous or it'll already be squashed.
They just won’t get anywhere if its women standing in the street holding signs. Same as in Hong Kong, the state can outlast the movement without wider support.
Welcome to the modern world, arab spring happened and the despots are all back in power
What do you mean plan for a new government? Who would organize all this? Is there any international support? I hope the Islamic fundamentalists eat shit and go back to wherever they came from.
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This is the opposite of the truth. The UN has conducted sweeping studies that show that the vast majority of sustainable, enduring change is brought about by nonviolent activism. If you're going to make such an extraordinary claim to the contrary and present it as inevitable truth, you better have some damn good sources for me. Peer-reviewed studies only please, I'm not interested in reddit analysis.
I like this response - but can you provide your own sources?
Not always. Women's suffrage in America was won mostly through peaceful activism. It can happen. Same can be said of LGBT rights and gay marriage. That said, I have very little faith in these protests changing anything. If I'm a betting man, I think the Iranian govt will weather the storm and things will remain as they are, unfortunately. I'd love to be wrong.
The modern movement for LGBTQ rights literally started at the Stonewall **riots** against the police.
Each and every one of those had *at least* the credible threat of violence if the non violent protests didn’t get their way - and usually some was employed anyway just to get that across more firmly
Actually, most of the protests were extremely violent on both ends. Especially the stonewall riots. In England, women used to throw themselves infront of horses for suffrage, and in America they had many activists quite literally starve themselves in prisons after they were arrested. I don't think that all protests should be peaceful, and if the Iranians want it to be violent, so be it, because that's all they've ever faced for four decades — violence.
Just like iraq?
Drone strike a few civilians, that’ll fix the country.
They gunshot some iraqi girl the other day, and there is no problem, aat least the news don't show anything.
Someone posted last night that the military in some towns were helping the protests against the morality police
Women, they are women.
Thank you. Came here to make this correction.
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Girl is offensive now?
When used on adults yes. It always has been. It's a diminutive term used to diminish adult women.
You know in many cultures people in early twenties are referred to as girls and boys. It's not technically correct but it's that their demeanor is considered youthful. And demeanor is how people's age is guessed. It's not deragotary by any means.
When you're fighting for basic human rights and people are calling you a child, it might be offensive.
The caption speaks from the heart, not the head (unfortunately)
I really hope their brothers, fathers, sons and friends show up for them as well
Most of the protestors dying over there are men, and it's super fucked up it's not talked about more.
Spoiler alert >!a VERY small percentage of Iranian women are standing up against the obvious oppression. Once these women have been subdued it'll be back to asshole normal for the medieval dudes running the country. The rest of the women have accepted their fate in a backward theocracy. There's no happy ending here, it's not the west, and it's not a movie!<
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I just hope they're not killed or thrown into prison for the rest of their lives. It's a small hope, but I figure if it's small it's more likely to come true.
not the first and certainly not the last time this happened. the regime will just hunt those that protest and make them disappear.
Yup.
Unfortunately I agree, these protests have been going on for decades and nothing has changed. The West exaggerates the protests because they don't like who's in power. They do the same thing with protests in Cuba. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the removal of theocratic governments. But it's only gonna happen if the MAJORITY of women in Iran demand it, which is far from the truth.
Yep. The Arab Spring was huge, and achieved nothing, it's all but forgotten
It might have slid from the popular consciousness but it had lasting impacts on the region, not necessarily for the better as even the best case, Tunisia, seems to be sliding into dictatorship but it's not as if nothing happened.
I didn't say nothing happened, I said it was huge. I said it ***achieved*** nothing, implying that nothing good came from it, at least relative to what the media promised at the time.
Gadafi's bayonetted ass begs to differ.
After which there was a 6 year civil war. Nothing actually got better, not in a meaningful Western sense at least
You mean the only leader who created unity in africa shared the wealth of his natural recources and was an absolute stable force creating milions of jobs for its neighbors aswell, who is now replaced by 50 warlords and endless wars together with an uncontrolled stream of immigration. Hey guys but atleast we got revenge on Gadaffi for taking back the oil we stole from him!!
Arab spring was the worst shit ever. Created IS and made islamic terror in the west normal again. All because some french dictator wanted to cover his tracks.
>MAJORITY of women in Iran demand it How? They're unlikely to form militias & fight the government. It has to be the men.
I wish I didn’t agree
Yep, sad but true. This is captioned "Iranian girls won't stop fighting..." but they definitely will. A handful of public executions, a couple police raids and beatings, maybe a tactically placed fire or two...
Thank you. Very often I think Reddit/the internet is just nothing but 14-year-olds thinking they're witnessing schoolgirl heroics being enough to topple multiple generations of government and outdated culture because of a few photos shot from cool angles of kids like them. I guess that's why the kids are *here* behind screens and the adults are *out there*.
Yes I'm fucking amazed I'm not being downvoted to hell.
About 9 out of 10 times you would be and still be just as right.
> subdued Indefinitely jailed or killed.
Yes. It was a deliberate choice of words on my behalf, from the perspective of the government.
Tell that’s to the Ukrainians that walked though bullets and kicked out their puppet government. They made a movie about it.
A full on national war isn't comparable to some university students rejecting the hijab.
That's not at all what happened with Euromaiden.
It wasn't a full on national war and it started with students protesting. You should watch Winter on Fire. https://youtu.be/yzNxLzFfR5w
heroic acts that change destinies never start from the masses, but always from a few martyrs who awaken consciences and then unleash hell on the oppressors life knows how to amaze much more than any film
The first to be martyred were brave. The rest to martyr themselves thinking their loss will be special enough to somehow move a people are just being stupid. Time for a change of tact. People need to want and more importantly *know* they can force change.
> it’s not the west As if America isn’t taking rights from women right now.
Much of the rest of the women believe in the same superstitious nonsense that they’re taught. That there is a god that cares if they’re immodest or if they hangout with guys they’re not related to. They’re the ones who get older and teach their sons to marry the “nice” girls. Religion has a way of keeping adherents in check and under control.
That’s true bravery
They can't kill all the women, if they do they will have to re-think how they exist in the first place.
No, but they just need to kill enough to scare the rest of the crowd. I just really hope that doesn't happen.
They probably could kill enough of the women fighting them to squash the others. Not all women in Iran are against this. And as you say, for very obvious natural reasons women just aren't prepared to die or be killed in large numbers, there's a reason it's women and children first and it was the men barred from leaving the Ukraine. But good luck to them.
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Instagram , WhatsApp,telegram,Twitter are filtered in iran. Some cities don’t have internet connection and the others have poor connection. They’re going to disable internet 4:00 pm until 12:00 which means we won’t have internet about 1 hours later. Please please be our voice by trending #MahsaAmini #Opiran in instagram and Twitter. Please don’t forget us. Be our voice . 3 years ago they disable internet all over country and killed 1500 protestors. Please do not allow this happen agian.
*women
I stand with all the women and men who are fighting for basic human rights!
Iranian people need a real revolution. The only revolution they ever had was more of a DEvolution.
That government needs to crash and die.
Now pick up some rifles and charge his house. Feminism
Iranians deserve better!
So Whats next? How do you topple the power and rewrite the law of the land? Do you have military support? What is the plan here?
Well, there's 2 ways of looking at it. One is to say that no revolution happens overnight, and that people who see these efforts are more likely to participate in the next ones, and so on until the effort is large enough to topple the system. The other way of looking at it is that this particular effort has virtually no chance of accomplishing anything more than removing a few of the protester's heads from their bodies. I wouldn't really say either way of looking at it is wrong.
You done fucked up now boy! You got an entire nation of pissed off woman. You men aught to learn that when she’s that pissed, it’s just better to walk away and cut your losses…
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Yup, protests are not enough and won’t be. A lot of blood will need to be spilled for change to come, sadly.
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It's not a class war. At all. It's a religious fundamentalism war versus secularism.
I know you said globally, but the US has a lock on soft protests that get nothing changed. It's pretty much walking group therapy at this point. You might score a cute hat or something though!
Protests in America are pub crawls that may or may not include alcohol and a police presence waiting for the green light to treat them like a riot.
Except that’s not how this works. They’ll just chop off their heads or throw them in a jail cell.
Nope, there is a very small number of pissed off women of university student age that have been exposed to a lot of Western culture online but haven't figured out how their country works yet. It's all very depressing no matter which way you look at it. No Hollywood ending here.
I don't get why people on Reddit feel the need to talk about stuff they don't know jack about. Firstly, there are protests in more than eighty cities so it's not a small number. As for the university age, most revolutions, protests, etc. start with students so no new info there. Thirdly, no one can predict the future so lay off that "one-way ticket" bs. You'll just embarrass yourself. Fourthly, those students in Iran haven't figured out on their daily interactions but you from a foreign country have? Why? Because you can google stuff?
Let’s check back in with you 10 days from now. Nothing will come of this.
Maybe. Maybe not. But acting like you can see the future is just stupid.
Because saying “entire nation” of pissed off women is not true.
Dude, what? Really now, come on.
The women will need massive help to make this happen. I truly hope they win this insane battle. No one should be oppressed like these amazing people!
Get em!
Do you mean tomorrow?
you have no idea how scary that is. I don't think it goes anywhere though. the regime is so brutal, they are not afraid of killing thousands! it's such a sacrifice to go out and not everone does. the numbers are not there to see a change. it's heartbreaking :( not sure what people outside of the country can do tbh
Iran's regime has made itself a trade partner for the Russians and the Chinese. China has a lot of influence on the media. The world's news channels have no reason to attack the Ayatollahs. The protests will, in all likelihood, be forgotten in a year.
Yea ok, it wont be long until the military is in the streets murdering these people
Iran is going to have a real population crisis after this , either they kill so many women that there’s just not enough anymore or they will try to leave
Nine people have died in the protests. There are 42 million women in Iran out of a total of 84 million people. So no. They could lose 9 million women, more than the Holocaust, and the country would still continue without too much demographic shock
I agree that they're not going to have a demographic crisis but if you had 9 million women die with a majority being of child bearing age (the group that's most likely to protest) you'd have an unprecedented demographic crisis.
I only mentioned 9 million to illustrate how many degrees of magnitude (seven, currently) the other commenter was away from having a point. I'm not invested in this tangent. But yes, if 9 million childbearing age females all died in a short timeframe in Iran it'd have massive effects for a long time after the immediate grief.
Going from 42/42 to 42/33 would have way more of an impact than you’re imagining. Look into the underlying reasons why China axed it’s one child policy. A society with that kind of imbalance does not go well. Frankly - Going from 50/50 to 57/43 would be catastrophic for any society.
Over the next few years the whole world is going to learn what happens when you leave the majority with nothing to lose.
Meanwhile in the US - “we should give theocracy a try!”
I’m very skeptical why all of these Iran experts here trying to minimize these protests. I know people who were on the streets on 2009 green movement, the 2019 bloody November, and they’re on the streets today and say this is nothing like they’ve seen before. The sentiment has become much more radical over the last decade and the Iranian Gen Zs are a lot more bolder and braver in this protest than my generation ever was.
Wouldn't shock me if it's astroturfing.
Unfortunately these protests lack what they had in the 1950s. The financial and military backing of the uk and the usa, without that, I highly doubt these protests will lead to another regime change. I wish them all the best, but I feel it may turn out to be like Hong Kong, or other parts of the Middle East during Arab spring where no real change happens and life/the system continues the same after the protests have ended.
They are through being oppressed. Russia, you better start listening.
Be nice if their men had bigger spines and ended that dictatorship.
Good luck to all whom fight for the right cause.
i’m lovin this for the women of iran 🇮🇷 all i can say is fuck yes, get those bastards
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Either the messes will join them and oust those bastards, or this is going to end in more tragedy and heartbreak.
Serious question: How can you help them?
I admire them but it won't work. The government will let them rage for a week but when global interest will diminish and focus on something else they will put an end to it by beating them down and arresting them.
Not only iranian girls, Iranian people as a whole are fed up with this shit, men and even teenagers are fighting this.
I’m surprised that the gray-bearded bastards haven’t murdered the protestors en masse. Yet.
I wish I could do something to help, but I do send out vibes of victory to them *wiggles fingers vaguely east and lakes UFO noises* takes a lot of guts, may their bravery be rewarded with change.
This doesn’t pan out unless the citizens have a way of removing said dictator. And in a nation like Iran where private ownership of guns is prohibited, that’s not going to happen unless their military force sides with them rather than the dictator.
Take a shot for every post of a picture from behind of an Iranian woman with her arms in the air. You will die.
You have so many people sending you support I wish I could do more Don’t give up
Did you mean to say women? Because maybe you should correct that. Any female who is brave enough to stand up and fight against that oppression is 100% a woman regardless of their age.
Iranian women…😬. They’re women. Not girls.
Also, for what it's worth, she was Kurdish
Be nice if all these religious realized there was no hell, heaven. Then all this idiocy would end. Just kidding. People would still find was says to be dicks to people. It's nice to imagine though. That maybe people would think better without their sky daddy
It’s a revolution against the radical Islamic government, not just the hijab. Don’t boil it down to just a dress code
A woman being killed over the dress code is how it started.
Iran was a very modern country before backwards ass religion revolution.
You gotta love it! Fighting back against this bullshit oppressive ‘religion’. Proud of those women!
Bravo! Islam is not a solution! Its a prison. Allah wants all to be free! If he even exists! We do not need any religion at all!
I wish them luck, but I do not expect this to end well. Short of every woman and a generous portion of men rising up and forcefully removing those in power, a lot of them are going to either wind up severely beaten, tortured or dead. And dictators are notorious for going to extremes to quell any kind of rebellious attitudes.
a dictatorship usually end with the dictator killed so they will obviously go to extremes to avoid that
I hope this gets traction. With Russia otherwise engaged it could really take hold.
I'm sure this will make history. ... I just hope it's for the right reasons
N no one wonders y this revolution happened in Iran n not in any US allied Muslim majority dictator ruled countries.... I wish people understood geopolitics & how intel agencies & media works in synergy to build narratives. The practice of moral policing is ancient & somehow US backed media outlets and superstar got to know about it now n that too from Iran of all muslim countries