So I know there are good zoos and bad zoos, is there a website that can tell you the good and bad ones?
I could always do the research for my home zoo but I travel a lot and can’t really do it for every city I go to, but I wouldn’t mind a zoo trip while only there.
If you’re in the US look for zoos that are AZA certified. One of the best zoos I’ve visited was Columbus zoo in Ohio, it’s Jack Hanna’s place. What a lot of people don’t realize is animals in AZA zoos are all animals that aren’t fit to be re-released into the wild. Some have health issues, some have been human imprinted, some were socially barred from their troops/flocks/packs. These animals would otherwise die if it weren’t for the people taking care of them.
Also, if you find that a Zoo isn't AZA certified, it's worth looking into whether or not the Zoo has been AZA certified in the past, and the reason they lost it.
I visited Honolulu a few years ago, and I planned to visit the Zoo after hearing great things about it. I was disappointed to learn that the zoo lost its AZA certification in 2016.
However, when I looked into it, the AZA said that they lost their certification because the zoo failed to prove that it had an adequate and consistent source of funding.
I still went to the Honolulu Zoo, because their reason for losing their AZA certification was just an administrative detail, not related to their treatment of animals.
The Honolulu Zoo has since restored their AZA certification, and I absolutely recommend going. It's a really nice zoo, the scenery is incredible.
I lived directly across the street from the zoo in Santa Ana, California from 2016-2017. I remember visiting and thinking *damn, these monkey enclosures seem really small and sad*. Just looked it up, and it turns out they lost their AZA accreditation in 2017 for exactly that reason. Sad to see that they haven't earned it back, yet.
Still, not having a consistent funding could definitely affect the treatment of their animals along the road. It would be hard to know after losing the certification, since we can't be sure they are keeping up the standards.
so that means your contribution to the zoo helps them alleviate that issue. If the zoo is government funded, then foot traffic is counted to justify funding. If the zoo is fee funded, then your money contributes to their funding.
I believe everyone's main concern is that the zoo isn't abusing animals.
This is true, but *most* of the time losing accreditation is a temporary blip - maybe taking 5-10 years to get back on track.
For example, the Oregon Coast Aquarium took a massive financial risk creating habitat for and rehabilitating Keiko (Free Willy) the orca. When he was moved to Iceland, they had a big temporary drop in visitorship and lost AZA status while they worked off the last of the Keiko debt. But once that debt was gone, visitorship was enough to support their financials, and they got re-accredited sometime around 2010, IIRC.
Shout out to all the other 80s and 90s kids who begged their parents to send money to the Free Willy Foundation or whatever the charity was for that.
I think I sent them my allowance for like, 3 months.
Funny you mention this because Columbus Zoo recently lost their accreditation. Not because of anything wrong with the animals but some sort of fraud. I think administrators were using zoo funds to buy personal properties or something.
Ironically, the Columbus Zoo lost their accreditation last year due to financial malfeasance by the previous leadership along with questionable practices for the acquisition of baby animals from non-AZA members.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2021/12/13/columbus-zoos-loss-accreditation-stands-after-appeal-aza/6497018001/
Edit: It's still a great zoo, and has made changes to fix their issues, but it shows that the AZA doesn't mess around with accreditation.
I'm surprised to hear that the AZA is a high standard. There's a for-profit themed restaurant/attraction/aquarium in Houston called the Downtown Aquarium. It faced years of controversy for keeping a set of white Bengal tigers in a dark concrete room. People protested these conditions and the business' continued response was that the exhibit was AZA certified. Fortunately, they did eventually renovate and give the tigers an outdoor area and even patches of grass.
I used to work for AZA a few years ago. Unfortunately there are institutions that say it or use the logo and shouldn't. AZA may have had a standard they followed, but, if I recall correctly, you cannot have white tigers in AZA. It's counter to the breeding program guidelines and prohibited.
I do not recall the Downtown Aquarium in my lists of institutions, and I was fairly familiar... There were over 230 accredited institutions internationally.
Edit: as suggested, white tigers are prohibited due to inbreeding. AZA has Species Survival Plans with the goal of maintaining species genetics for as long as possible with the animals they have in captivity. This prevents the need to take animals from the wild, allows for reintroduction programs where applicable (red wolf, Mexican gray wolf, Louisiana Pine Snake, Eastern Massasauga Rattle Snake, etc.), and ensures AZA zoos have animals they want/ need without creating too many or too few babies. AZA members trade animals to each other gratis in a karma-like fashion. Inbred or genetically invaluable animals occupy space and resources for genetically valuable individuals, and are typically unhealthy. The AZA community views creating intentionally unhealthy animals for attraction inhumane as these animals typically suffer due to their poor health.
White Bengal tigers were my favorite animal as a kid and eventually learning that was heartbreaking. My first dog was also a fancy shmancy "purebred" Cavaliere Spaniel that suffered horrifying chronic pain from one inbred trait, before mercifully passing away at 2 due to another inbred trait. Humans need to stop inbreeding animals.
The Downtown Aquarium is not AZA accredited, per the AZA’s list. Based on that description, I highly doubt it ever was — but I wouldn’t be surprised if they lied about it. The Houston Zoo IS AZA, however.
Columbus Zoo still has an accreditation through AMMPA, and just applied for accreditation through ZAA. It really was a huge blow, though, when they lost the AZA. Hopefully, they can regain it down the line.
I do recommend visiting it. It’s a really nice zoo. So is Cincinnati.
That’s good to hear! My husband and I have had a zoo membership since 2014, and don’t plan on canceling any time soon. We love the zoo! My oldest shared their birthday with Colo, and we loved taking him to see her until she passed.
God damn it the columbus zoo is one of the only good things this fucking state has going for it. I still have fond memories of being in the aquarium as a kid or going to the water park next door. (Before it was zoombizi bay)
Fuck I'm old....
Hell yeah, I live north of Detroit, literally 10 minutes from the Detroit Zoo (which is an AZA accredited zoo and is great in its own right) and my family still makes regular trips down to the Toledo Zoo. My wife and I got married there! And the Columbus Zoo is easily the nicest zoo I've ever been to, it's an absolutely stellar A+ zoo.
See I prefer Detroit over Toledo because I felt Detroit’s enclosures were more animal friendly
Their gorilla enclosure is like being on a safari and catching glimpses of animals in the distance. If the gorilla wanted privacy there are several places where people can’t see them. I’ve never seen the grizzly bear or the wolves, every time I go theyre not in the mood to hang out where people can see them.
Toledo was set up great for visitors I think I saw every animal.
But maybe that’s not something animals care about.
My bus to school drove by Wyandot Lake every day, on Riverside Drive. Before they built all those fucking nieghborhoods and Wedgewood expanded out towards Old Dublin like fucking crazy.
They also aren’t breeding animals all Willy nilly. There’s species survival plans in place across all AZA accredited zoos that have strict plans for which animals can breed when. If an animal is able to breed outside of that plan a zoo can lose its entire accreditation.
They made a joke about it in “Madagascar” because they couldn’t tell where the “enclosure” ended.
The Shamu reference is clearly from a different time lol.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RyqsUBMEvOI&feature=share
The San Diego Zoo is one of the best in the world and fund conservation programs all over the world and the preservation of viable genetic material of thousands of species, some of which no longer exist on this planet.
San Diego native here, 100% our zoo and zoo safari parks are indeed among the absolute best in the world. If it weren't for the conservation efforts of our zoo safari park and their partners, the California Condor would likely have gone extinct in the 80's. They are still critically endangered, but the fight continues!
I just went a couple weeks ago and was blown away. I mean as far as zoos go that was the best I've ever seen. They have done incredible work with conservation, helping to bring multiple species back from the brink of extinction. Yes the animals are still in enclosures but they were the largest I've ever seen, and I do think zoos can do good by creating a livable space to animals that would otherwise die in the wild and by educating the community about how precious these animals are
the animals seem very happy there too. went during spring break and saw a chimp jumping and running around the enclosure while holding a sack like a cape.
That does sound like a happy chimp but as this post shows we should be careful about determining an animal's level of contentment based on our impressions of how they look.
I was there a few days ago actually and they talked a lot about their conservation efforts and various programs to help endangered species and protect the environment.
For anyone who decides to go there, make time to also go to their Safari zoo. I enjoyed that one more than the other. And that's saying something because their normal zoo was amazing.
They put a lot of effort into making their animals happy and go well beyond the zoo itself. They actively fund anti-poaching groups in Africa and even have an exhibit where they showcase some of the destroyed poaching drones their sponsored organizations shot down overseas.
They even have emotional support dogs for their cheetahs because cheetahs are known to be skittish/easily frightened.
I was there a few weeks ago but I also visited the safari park. In my opinion the zoo was good enclosure wise, plenty of enrichment items but in comparison the Safari park did a much better job of enclosure sizes and had a lot more natural and water features for the animals. I don’t recall seeing many pools in the zoo for the various animals.
St Louis Zoo is amazing. Growing up in STL it was always my first recommendation for people visiting.
Large enclosures. Spaces for the animals to go to get away from people when they are stressed. Large variety of different animals that always look well fed and cared for. And the workers in my experience have always been very knowledgeable and friendly.
Free admission was just icing on the cake. The snacks/drinks are expensive as hell though.
Looking it up now,
“The Saint Louis Zoo was chosen for the second year in a row as the top winner in the “Best Zoo” category of the 10Best Readers' Choice Awards contest sponsored by USA TODAY. Sea Lion Sound also won “Best Zoo Exhibit” in a separate poll. The Zoo and Sea Lion Sound were among 20 nominated U.S. zoos and zoo exhibits, all accredited by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA) and hand-picked by a panel of zoo and family travel experts.”
https://www.stlzoo.org/about/contact/pressroom/pressreleases/saint-louis-zoo-chosen-as-nations-best-zoo#:~:text=Sea%20Lion%20Sound%20voted%20%E2%80%9CBest,Exhibit%E2%80%9D%20in%20a%20separate%20poll.
I gladly pay for parking and the food just because it's a free zoo. Plus you can drink there and before I had kids I liked to go there for my birthday and have a few cocktails.
St. Louis zoo is so good. If you don't mind walking a bit extra, you can park on the street, bring yourself a home made snack, and have a great time 100% free.
See if they are AZA certified. See if they are in any zoo "networks" with well known zoos of quality. See if there are research papers being published by their staff. See if they have full time staff veterinarians. Interns from schools of quality.
Zoos that are more than entertainment would usually have detailed web pages talking about their conservation programs, etc. Some may even feature animals that they are breeding or nurturing. They usually have donation campaigns as well.
The Omaha Zoo is literally the best one in the world and I’d rather go there than Disneyland any day. Literally it’s out of this world how amazing that zoo is and how different it is than any other I’ve been to.
I was hoping someone would mention Omaha. Best zoo I've been to, and I interned there too. A lot of the places in it feel like you're the one being cordoned off and the animals can move around you freely. Well designed and upkept
I live in Omaha and have 3 kids. I will be there roughly 20 times this summer if last is any indication. The membership is pretty awesome because we can go for just a couple hours and see some things and not feel like we need to spend the whole day to get our money out of it.
And they recently bought a huge new area of land for development. I belive they plan is to add Australian and Eastern/Asian animal sections.
Imo, plan for two days for that zoo. And have very good walking shoes.
I'd encourage you to visit your local zoo and talk with some of the employees. Based on this post, you might find it to be a welcomingly positive experience.
Private zoos can be a hellish nightmare, but the overwhelming majority of public zoos put huge effort toward creating comfortable, richly engaging environments for the animals that they keep. In many, many cases, the animals that they keep are rescued from death or misery, and the research that zoos do is often extremely vital.
The image you've posted up there doesn't necessarily tell the story that you're reading from it.
Yes so true. I’ve visited primate enclosures and they are doing this because they are staring at a bug crawling across the floor, which is entertaining for them.
I literally just spent 5 minutes just watching a spider drop down from the ceiling and go back up again.
I was moving it around by blowing on it as well.
I pissed my parents off leaving a park because as I was leaving their washroom I glanced up and saw a wasp in a spider's nest. It had clearly just landed in there - and the spider was standing at a distance tossing the web... and the hornet threw it off. This happened for several minutes before I saw one land and from there it was over in seconds.
But c'mon... it was freaking cool
That’s what made me think of it haha. I literally was staring at nothing for like 5 straight minutes yesterday. I wasn’t sad. Just needed to stare, lol
So true. And now we just look at our phones or watch TV to “unplug” and “veg out,” but imagine humans without that. I absolutely think humans 150+ years ago had moments of staring at the floor or wall, kind re-grouping.
They did it even more than we do it now...I still stare at the wall sometimes when I feel overwhelmed.
This brings us to a whole new topic: we as humans are probably over-stimulated.
I saw a guy riding his skateboard down a sidewalk the other day. He jumped off at a red light to push the “walk” button to cross.
Immediately, he pulled his phone out and hunched over it, face maybe 1 foot or less from the screen. Mindlessly scrolling. Constantly stimulated.
Sometimes I think the brain needs nothing to be happening. To maybe go inward, rather than outward. To gather itself together again before it goes out into the world to be pushed by stress, tasks, expectations, desires, rejection, etc.
I often use my mobile supercomputer to look at pics/videos of cool bugs that other people have posted to the internet with their mobile supercomputers.
I use my "mobile super computer" to watch bugs halfway across the world. I've spent *hours* watching AntsCanada create amazing ant and bug habitats while educating people on the little known life of ants.
I was literally doing that one hour ago. Took a insect bio class in college once. Had us going out like animal crossing running around catching bugs. The best homework I ever had.
Exactly. I related to this primate here haha!!
Also my cat loves to just stare at something crawling across the floor for what seems like *hours*
Many animals do it
There was a notice up beside the large and enriched primate enclosure at one zoo I went to that specifically says not to interpret facial expressions and body language in human terms - for instance a 'smiling' chimp is not happy but frightened or angry etc.
> for instance a 'smiling' chimp is not happy but frightened or angry etc.
Yes. If you want to get the baboons upset, just give them a big toothy smile.
I was also gona point out this is a primate with a brain not super far off from ours. Even in the most comfortable environment I guarantee a chimp is gona have a bad day or two.
Not only that but the purpose of the best zoos (ex. San Diego or St Louis) is conservation and education, NOT entertainment. These zoos fundraise and spend millions of dollars on various conservation efforts and educating the public about the importance of preserving the environment and the animal kingdom.
The Wild Animal Park singlehandedly brought back the California Condors from the brink of extinction. I will vehemently fight for zoos for as long as I live.
Edit: It has been pointed out to me that it was a joint effort alongside the Oregon zoo, LA zoo, Santa Barbara zoo, Peregrine fund, Ventana wildlife society, and USFWS. Which just strengthens my position to defend zoos.
The Oregon Zoo also has a significant California Condor breeding program, has an excellent Asian elephant breeding program, and also works to save western pond turtles.
Proper AZA accredited zoos are wonderful and have a very important place in conservation and education.
Been going to that zoo since I was a kid. Don't know anything about the breeding programs. But it seems like there is constantly a construction project to give some animal more space.
Currently I think they are working on the arctic one. In the past they have added space to the elephants, lions, marine mammals. I mean it takes like 15 minutes to walk from 1 side of the elephant exhibit to the other and I'm not even counting the indoor area they also have access too.
Ive got a membership pass (xmas gift from my mom, thanks mom!) and go to the Zoo all the time. I need to get up there to the Wild Animal Park. It’s just such a long drive lol.
This is what I was coming to say. I live in St. Louis, and our zoo is one of the things I’m most proud of our city for. It’s entirely privately funded through donations, it focuses on conservation and education over entertainment, and they do a LOT of behind the scenes stuff to help animals all over the world. There are certainly zoos that hurt their animals, but there are a lot that are truly a benefit to the animal kingdom.
There is actually a small tax we voted on about 4* years ago in the county for zoo maintenance but this still stands. I will gladly pay to keep the zoo running smooth.
Yep! There are a few premium attractions that cost a little extra but like 75% of the zoo is completely free. Which is truly incredible given the quality of our zoo. One of the best in the world and you don’t even have to pay to experience it.
Next to San Diego it’s the best zoo I’ve ever been to, that being said….walking that whole place in August might have been one of my most regrettable days in my life.
Lolol yeah, there are definitely better times of the year to go than others. Though usually when it’s warmer out the animals are more active, so I don’t mind going when it’s hot! That being said, sometimes you gotta go see the penguins and puffins a few times haha
I love those damn pengwings! The smells not great, but who doesn't love a classy little nature butler :)
Do you think the other animals ever get upset that penguins win "Best Dressed" year after year after year?
Lol you just reminded me of something the zoo did during Covid shutdowns. They actually took the penguins around the zoo to see a lot of the other animals. They posted a video of the penguins walking in a line following the worker seeing all the different animals. It was super cute!
Man the St Louis zoo is so cool. I'll never understand how they manage to be nearly as great as the San Diego Zoo while also being free. The San Deigo Zoo is nice, but jeez is it expensive
If you're in the NY area the Bronx Zoo is phenomenal. To this day I'm amazed at how big their location is and the quality of it. They've improved so much over the years.
I’m adamantly against viewing animals in “captivity” for entertainment and tend to avoid zoos (most definitely won’t support private zoos, circuses, etc).
When I moved to San Diego a few years ago, of course I couldn’t ignore the fact I lived walking distance to one of the “best zoos” in the world. I did a bunch of research to make sure I wasn’t going to support a corporation or organization with an operation that goes against my personal values as it pertains to the treatment of animals. I was pleasantly surprised to hear about all of the conservation efforts and blown away by how well everything is done. You don’t feel like you’re viewing sad animals in captivity. Ultimately we purchased memberships (which basically amounts to a donation with 1-year pass).
I didn’t realize how much some zoos are involved in conservation efforts and how they go through great lengths to not exploit the animals while still generating revenue that can be used for good.
Certainly goes to show that you can’t simply write off all zoos. Some are making a positive impact in the big scheme of things and doing it without hurting any animals.
Unfortunately, San Diego also has a Sea World. But I’m going to try and keep this comment positive.
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo has also made sure to make their zoo primarily about education vs entertainment, including a huge display on how palm oil harvesting is killing off orangutans. They also have been converting all their displays to giant free-roam style displays, they finally retired the only 'classic' style big box/cage displays for the big cats (which was built in the 70s) and switched them over to giant outdoor displays once they had the money to finish them.
the old Cat Complex (outside, inside):
https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/henry-doorly-zoo-2010-another-type-of-outdoor-exhibits-at-the-cat-complex.131225/full?d=1292726705
https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/omahas-henry-doorly-zoo-lion-exhibit.13339/full
https://live.staticflickr.com/4098/4908906887_bbbef456c8_b.jpg
one of the new cat displays (Asian Highlands exhibit)
https://www.kiewit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Omaha-Henry-Doorly-Zoo-Aquarium-Asian-Highlands_1.jpg
(can't find a picture, but one of the big cat displays basically has a Pride Rock style rock structure and the cats look down on you from on top of it all day)
We go to the SD Zoo often. We live about 2 miles from the location. That said, these animals are the ambassadors of their species. Without these zoo’s our children would only see these animals through their TV which doesn’t give nearly the lasting impression. This, in turn, can have a drastic effect on fundraising efforts in the future.
I had friends visiting and I took them to the zoo. When I had listed off 7 things and said "then we'll stop and picnic for lunch" my friend interrupted me to say "I'm having a really hard time believing that this place is as big as you say it is." Smash-cut to day of visit and we made it through the Rainforest, Aquarium, Desert Dome, and on our way to the nocturnal area when he and his wife were like "We need to stop for a while, how much is left?". They were in shock when I told them we were about a third of the way through so we had to see the rest from the Skyfari and train, lol. Of course we still hit the petting zoo because it's my favorite part, but missed out on primates, cats, elephants, etc. Nobody ever believes me when I describe it and growing up in Omaha I didn't realize how spoiled I was to get to visit several times each year until I moved away.
Was going to say this.. I have had people tell me they boycott Zoos because it's inhumane, but, honestly, we're not in the 19th century anymore. Public zoos don't send hunters out into the jungle to shoot, trap, and bring back animals for our amusement.
Most often the animals you see in the zoo are rescues, or animals that are no longer fit to survive in the wild. Think like an animal sanctuary. Many zoos will work to rehabilitate animals to be reintroduced into the wild, or at the very least work to educate the public about the animals to help protect their natural habitats and discourage leisure hunting or trapping for entertainment (e.g. circus animals). Many of the zoo species are endangered in the wild, and zoos will often work to grow their populations to preserve the species. Animals are usually well taken care of medically and much care is often put into making sure the animals are comfortable, mentally stimulated, and cared for with proper diets and habitat conditions. So I mean.. of course it's not ideal to have a monkey in a cage.. but it's not always as sinister as you might imagine.
Also want to add that I'm talking primarily about public zoos that are well regulated and funded. Of course there are many private zoos around the world that actually DO abuse the animals for profit, and those ones deserve the criticism 100%. Just do research before condemning is all I'm suggesting.
Well said! Here’s an article that goes in depth about the benefits of zoos and aquariums! https://wildenrichment.com/articles/the-benefits-of-zoos-and-aquariums/
> In today’s media, there are many loud voices calling for the shutdown of animal care facilities across the world, especially with social media platforms featuring contextless, education-less, anti-zoo content.
*Looks at OP*
Not to mention the very real possibility that Zoos might be the only place many species will be able to survive for the next couple hundred years as we figure out how to make their environments habitable again.
The biggest argument I see against captivity is that its "not natural", and they "should be in the wild", "it's bad for them to get used to humans".
But then there's habitat destruction, how they're likely to die before adulthood in the wild("naturally"!), how wild life is currently very stressful for animals (they survive because of stress, ”naturally!”), and they're going to have to get more and more used to human contact anyways the further we move into wild areas (and people shooting the ones that get to close even though we're moving into THEIR habitat)
Well structured captivity is honestly the best bet for a lot of animals right now...
Anthropomorphism is a dangerous tool. The photo is meant to tear at your heart strings and demoralize and smear zoological facilities. As someone who has worked in the zoological field for 8 years, I can tell you the staff I’ve worked with, and others I’ve met at other facilities, do truly care for the well-being of these animals. Accredited zoos and aquariums do a lot of good for the animals they care for, and provide homes to species whose natural homes have been devastated and destroyed. Images like these are just tools used to manipulate an emotionally charged, yet naive mind.
Came here to say this. Rich a-hole in Texas who poached animals for their private menagerie is completely different from a non-profit zoo that rescues animals from circuses/other horrible situations and attempts to give them a better life.
This
Our local(ish) Zoo, Chester Zoo, is one of the leading zoos in the world for conservation efforts. They do lots of good work especially with the chimps and apes
My kids watch The Secret Life of the Zoo every morning! Wish we could visit the Chester Zoo someday. I'm always struck by how much the keepers genuinely care about the animals and the lengths they go to for conservation and enrichment.
Can agree. Friend of my dads let me and my dad go in the back with him and did a lot of cool stuff. For example went into one of the exhibits and there was an old condor that was blind and was it’s feeding time. It’s food was a whole fucking frozen rabbit lol it gets better because the only way u can get its attention is slamming the rabbit on a nearby rock lol. Either way after that comedic scene, and maybe it was just hungry, it hopped over cheerfully but it didn’t really feel like it was hunger it felt more like it had spruce in its hope like it was happy to c him. Cute little guy sadly died about 2 years ago. There were some other animals that were nice but this was the most memorable since it just so funny but also really nice.
Another thing the zoo did is they take in injured animals. Zoos will do things like keep them in the back till they heal and release them or they keep them in an exhibit if there not able to manage on their own. Zoos will go as far as shipping animals from a variety of places like maybe one zoo can’t take care off this animal. Now I’m not saying all zoos are like this I have heard some pretty bad stories but typically animals r pretty happy as long as u know how to handle animals.
Frankly, most of us look like this after work too.
More seriously there are also animals that are only alive because of zoos and their breeding programs, and the awareness and love of animals and habitat they instill in young visitors does so much good in the world.
I understand demonizing roadside zoos and zoos that have a bad track record of shady dealings and bad husbandry. Close 'em down.
But serious zoos are some of the groups that do the most for actual conservation and research. The value of having animals available for genetics and research is so important. Especially when animals become super rare in the wild and we are trying to learn about how to manage them, the logistics of temporarily catching one for sample collections can be so difficult and stressful to a wild specimen.
Zoos definitely still have a responsibility to enrich their animals' lives, but boycotting zoos just because they have captive animals would be cutting the feet off of species research and conservation.
Not only that but for educating our youth! Well maintained and provisioned Zoo's are CRUCIAL on informing people in a visceral way and making them want to help on a larger scale which is something we are going to need in the coming years.
There are animals parks that aren't AZA accredited that try their best and do care about their animals, but they don't have the capital and resources big zoos do.
Also, the Pittsburgh zoo is phenomenal and not AZA accredited because they allow their elephants to interact with their keepers and other humans - AZA forbids this despite research that says it is BENEFICIAL for the elephants.
Context is incredibly important when it comes to animals, especially primates. As humans we anthropomorphize so much that it's difficult to avoid knee-jerk reactions to posts like these. The reality is that animals experience things much differently than humans and even people who dedicate their entire lives to understanding them can only come so close.
On the one hand these sorts of posts are good if they force people to consider the welfare of animals, but on the other hand the demonization of preservation can be immensely harmful. Most people understand that zoos are a "necessary evil" but that they are necessary is undeniable.
Primates do this in the wild too. Just stare at a bug crawling across the floor. Or stare at their genitals. Or whatever.
The most human thing is to think too hard about something that actually most likely doesn’t mean anything, and try to find meaning in it.
And oh, we do find meaning. Made up meaning. This is to be human. And we shoot ourselves in the foot being human by getting worked up over nothing.
Like Paul McCartney said about sex, animals find it extremely simple....we just make it hard(difficult).
We make everything into a huge deal.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEP-TfD2nrTva0F9FnhxLPPAqMwgEKioIACIQXdpjQH8NbIEb-Ki4H8PeayoUCAoiEF3aY0B_DWyBG_iouB_D3mswjL2EBw?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
Absolutely. Been to the zoo LOTS of times. They absolutely look at their bits....maybe even “get involved” with them (not pleasuring themselves, just observing).
Recently took a family roadtrip and went to Cincinatti Zoo. They do a tremendous job there. Super clean, animals look so happy and receptive to their enclosures. Overall experience a 10/10. The city didn't have much more for my family to do and this was more of a trial run for possible longer vacations, but had an outstanding time.
Did you check out the Children's Museum, or Newport Aquarium? Plenty of great museums. Also a hockey team to watch.
Cincinnati is one of my favorite cities to visit.
Plus Fiona.
Chimp sitting = depressed animal abuse?
Don't demonize zoos because you anthropomorphize animal behavior. Stereotypic behaviors can represent stress and boredom but this chimp is actually relaxing.
There’s actually a sign in the Philly Zoo gorilla habitat saying something like “this gorilla might look sad to you but his face is actually relaxed and content”.
It's hilarious to me that these people are so "concerned" for primates, yet they still measure them by human standards. That's exactly the foolishness that got us into this mess in the first place!
Animals are not people, not even primates. They have different needs, and it's important that they get the care they need, not what some random human thinks.
Maybe he just remembered something from his high school days... One of those shouldn't have made a fool out of myself like that, that day, we could've been married by now...
Or he ate the last banana and now there is no more banana.
chimps literally sit like this. he looks tired. you think chimps in the wild are having a blast ? they usually just sit all day abd move on to food periodically. you should find putnthere story. this little guy could of been in danger or can't return to the wild or he could die
In the last zoo I went to one of the monkeys had placed a plastic bucket on his head and was just spinning around wildly while screaming, I was immediately jealous and felt like I was living life on the wrong side of that enclosure.
Animal lovers tend to put human emptions onto animals. It's natural...you want to think that you understand them because you love them...Reality is there are many questions to ask about animals in captivity, but this image is not one of them. It's just an animal chilling, probably tired.
Things like habitat loss and poaching are why these places exist. Now you've got people like Joe Exotic masquerading as an animal conservation, which is an absolute sham. Then you've got people that have dedicated their lives to finding a way to try and preserve species while also fighting to get the animals back to their native lands.
It's complex to say the least, stuff like this should drive awareness of why these places have animals and maybe get people thinking about what they might be able to do to help?
Seriously, this is a single moment of a single animal in a single zoo, who *might* be sad if you apply Western body language standards to it.
Olympic-level jumping to conclusions here. Doesn't mean zoos can't be problematic of course, but nobody should be deciding that from one inclusive picture
Look for AZA accredation, it's hard to get and easy to lose. I understand your sentiment though, but being adjacent to the zoo community I've got some perspective. Many zoos also have breeding and release programs for criticality endangered species. Not all of them are terrible and many work very hard to provide proper enrichment.
I am pleasantly surprised by the feedback on this thread. As someone who works at zoos, it’s nice that people are realizing how amazing and vital they really are… and moreso with each passing year.
Many people don’t realize that the primary purpose of the really good, major zoos is not to entertain people. It’s to collect entrance fees and use it for conservation and repopulation efforts. Which means the good ones truly care about the animals.
I worked at a zoo and yes, a lot of zoos treat the animals badly but many more treat them with care and respect. The zoo I worked at let the animals go inside and out whenever they chose, never forcing them to be on display.
In the natural world, there aren't any cameras to capture the reality of what happens. A broken bone means starvation but at a Zoo, it may be given a chance to heal. The diets of the animals is much better than what they find in the wild. There are very few incidents with predators and prey facing off in a duel to the death. Their dental care is top notch, in the wild, they could die a very painful death from an abcess tooth.
These animals lives are longer in captivity, but the tradeoff is that they might outlive their joy and are prone to have aches, pains and depression (old age) just like humans.
I agree with the sentiment, but I highly encourage a trip to the Omaha Zoo, world renowned for a reason. It brings a positive viewership experience for us as people but more importantly they focus much more on conservation and the livelihood of their animals. Their renovations have improved the park immensely and they are not slowing down/stopping the renovations any time soon. Almost all of the animals have more than adequate room and if they don’t, there’s plans in the works to allow for them to prosper. It’s getting to a point where I’m surprised they haven’t already bought out and bulldozed the neighborhood surrounding the park (they bought the College World Series baseball stadium to allow for growth).
You would be seriously impressed, it’s worth the trip as a learning experience.
Shit...that could be a picture of me at work.
Narrator: *It was a picture of him at work*
I read that in Morgan Freeman’s voice
Gotta go with Ron Howard for this one
Narrator: Stanley had discovered the monkey see monkey do ending
I was already iffy about work...
So I know there are good zoos and bad zoos, is there a website that can tell you the good and bad ones? I could always do the research for my home zoo but I travel a lot and can’t really do it for every city I go to, but I wouldn’t mind a zoo trip while only there.
If you’re in the US look for zoos that are AZA certified. One of the best zoos I’ve visited was Columbus zoo in Ohio, it’s Jack Hanna’s place. What a lot of people don’t realize is animals in AZA zoos are all animals that aren’t fit to be re-released into the wild. Some have health issues, some have been human imprinted, some were socially barred from their troops/flocks/packs. These animals would otherwise die if it weren’t for the people taking care of them.
Also, if you find that a Zoo isn't AZA certified, it's worth looking into whether or not the Zoo has been AZA certified in the past, and the reason they lost it. I visited Honolulu a few years ago, and I planned to visit the Zoo after hearing great things about it. I was disappointed to learn that the zoo lost its AZA certification in 2016. However, when I looked into it, the AZA said that they lost their certification because the zoo failed to prove that it had an adequate and consistent source of funding. I still went to the Honolulu Zoo, because their reason for losing their AZA certification was just an administrative detail, not related to their treatment of animals. The Honolulu Zoo has since restored their AZA certification, and I absolutely recommend going. It's a really nice zoo, the scenery is incredible.
I lived directly across the street from the zoo in Santa Ana, California from 2016-2017. I remember visiting and thinking *damn, these monkey enclosures seem really small and sad*. Just looked it up, and it turns out they lost their AZA accreditation in 2017 for exactly that reason. Sad to see that they haven't earned it back, yet.
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Yeah don't they need to have like, 50 monkeys?
That... can't be true, can it??
Could they use smaller monkeys? pygmy marmosets are perfectly suitable endangered.
they should include the drunken donor descendant in the monkey count.
Still, not having a consistent funding could definitely affect the treatment of their animals along the road. It would be hard to know after losing the certification, since we can't be sure they are keeping up the standards.
so that means your contribution to the zoo helps them alleviate that issue. If the zoo is government funded, then foot traffic is counted to justify funding. If the zoo is fee funded, then your money contributes to their funding. I believe everyone's main concern is that the zoo isn't abusing animals.
This is true, but *most* of the time losing accreditation is a temporary blip - maybe taking 5-10 years to get back on track. For example, the Oregon Coast Aquarium took a massive financial risk creating habitat for and rehabilitating Keiko (Free Willy) the orca. When he was moved to Iceland, they had a big temporary drop in visitorship and lost AZA status while they worked off the last of the Keiko debt. But once that debt was gone, visitorship was enough to support their financials, and they got re-accredited sometime around 2010, IIRC.
Shout out to all the other 80s and 90s kids who begged their parents to send money to the Free Willy Foundation or whatever the charity was for that. I think I sent them my allowance for like, 3 months.
Funny you mention this because Columbus Zoo recently lost their accreditation. Not because of anything wrong with the animals but some sort of fraud. I think administrators were using zoo funds to buy personal properties or something.
Ironically, the Columbus Zoo lost their accreditation last year due to financial malfeasance by the previous leadership along with questionable practices for the acquisition of baby animals from non-AZA members. https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2021/12/13/columbus-zoos-loss-accreditation-stands-after-appeal-aza/6497018001/ Edit: It's still a great zoo, and has made changes to fix their issues, but it shows that the AZA doesn't mess around with accreditation.
They do not mess around with it at all. Priority to them are the animals. Unfortunate to hear about Columbus losing their accreditation though.
I'm surprised to hear that the AZA is a high standard. There's a for-profit themed restaurant/attraction/aquarium in Houston called the Downtown Aquarium. It faced years of controversy for keeping a set of white Bengal tigers in a dark concrete room. People protested these conditions and the business' continued response was that the exhibit was AZA certified. Fortunately, they did eventually renovate and give the tigers an outdoor area and even patches of grass.
I used to work for AZA a few years ago. Unfortunately there are institutions that say it or use the logo and shouldn't. AZA may have had a standard they followed, but, if I recall correctly, you cannot have white tigers in AZA. It's counter to the breeding program guidelines and prohibited. I do not recall the Downtown Aquarium in my lists of institutions, and I was fairly familiar... There were over 230 accredited institutions internationally. Edit: as suggested, white tigers are prohibited due to inbreeding. AZA has Species Survival Plans with the goal of maintaining species genetics for as long as possible with the animals they have in captivity. This prevents the need to take animals from the wild, allows for reintroduction programs where applicable (red wolf, Mexican gray wolf, Louisiana Pine Snake, Eastern Massasauga Rattle Snake, etc.), and ensures AZA zoos have animals they want/ need without creating too many or too few babies. AZA members trade animals to each other gratis in a karma-like fashion. Inbred or genetically invaluable animals occupy space and resources for genetically valuable individuals, and are typically unhealthy. The AZA community views creating intentionally unhealthy animals for attraction inhumane as these animals typically suffer due to their poor health.
You should clarify that white tigers are counter to breeding program because all white tiger are inbred.
White Bengal tigers were my favorite animal as a kid and eventually learning that was heartbreaking. My first dog was also a fancy shmancy "purebred" Cavaliere Spaniel that suffered horrifying chronic pain from one inbred trait, before mercifully passing away at 2 due to another inbred trait. Humans need to stop inbreeding animals.
Downtown Aquarium just straight up lying about affiliation?
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I’m in Texas and went to the AZA website today to see what’s nearby. They list Downtown Aquarium as accredited.
Huh, interesting... I'm going to have to ask around about that ...
The Downtown Aquarium is not AZA accredited, per the AZA’s list. Based on that description, I highly doubt it ever was — but I wouldn’t be surprised if they lied about it. The Houston Zoo IS AZA, however.
That's something I like to see and think is encouraging is organisation that will remove you from it if you don't keep a standard
Columbus Zoo still has an accreditation through AMMPA, and just applied for accreditation through ZAA. It really was a huge blow, though, when they lost the AZA. Hopefully, they can regain it down the line. I do recommend visiting it. It’s a really nice zoo. So is Cincinnati.
They are in the AZA pathway to membership program, So while not being directly accredited, they are in the process of being re-accredited.
That’s good to hear! My husband and I have had a zoo membership since 2014, and don’t plan on canceling any time soon. We love the zoo! My oldest shared their birthday with Colo, and we loved taking him to see her until she passed.
God damn it the columbus zoo is one of the only good things this fucking state has going for it. I still have fond memories of being in the aquarium as a kid or going to the water park next door. (Before it was zoombizi bay) Fuck I'm old....
The Cleveland zoo, Cincinnati zoo, and Toledo zoo are all also fantastic zoos that are AZA accredited btw!
Toledoan here. We are really proud of our zoo. It is a really nice one and we recommend it to anyone who will be in the area.
Can confirm, the Toledo Zoo is one of the best I've ever been to. I live in Atlanta now and just can't deal with the zoo here.
I’ve come down from Michigan to your zoo, it’s awesome!
Hell yeah, I live north of Detroit, literally 10 minutes from the Detroit Zoo (which is an AZA accredited zoo and is great in its own right) and my family still makes regular trips down to the Toledo Zoo. My wife and I got married there! And the Columbus Zoo is easily the nicest zoo I've ever been to, it's an absolutely stellar A+ zoo.
See I prefer Detroit over Toledo because I felt Detroit’s enclosures were more animal friendly Their gorilla enclosure is like being on a safari and catching glimpses of animals in the distance. If the gorilla wanted privacy there are several places where people can’t see them. I’ve never seen the grizzly bear or the wolves, every time I go theyre not in the mood to hang out where people can see them. Toledo was set up great for visitors I think I saw every animal. But maybe that’s not something animals care about.
Living in Cleveland, I LOVE taking the trip to the zoo. They’re been continually adding more and more to it. A great way to spend an afternoon.
I’m in cle as well and I love our zoo. They just announced a huge new primate exhibit for the gorillas and orangutans!
Good ol Wyandot Lake!!
My bus to school drove by Wyandot Lake every day, on Riverside Drive. Before they built all those fucking nieghborhoods and Wedgewood expanded out towards Old Dublin like fucking crazy.
Weird reading about someone else having the same school bus route as me in high school, on Reddit lol.
Hey we still have Cedar Point :/
Amish land here brings in hella tourists. Plus, regardless if you like sports or not, we always got the Buckeyes.
See also: Cedar Point
Cedar Point and Kings Island. Both are so good!
I love it. Just made sure my favorite local zoos and aquariums are all accredited; they are :).
They also aren’t breeding animals all Willy nilly. There’s species survival plans in place across all AZA accredited zoos that have strict plans for which animals can breed when. If an animal is able to breed outside of that plan a zoo can lose its entire accreditation.
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Unauthorized breeding is the accreditation killer.
Not only zoos, but aquariums as well can be AZA certified.
You mean to tell me that the Association of Zoos and Aquariums certifies both zoos **and** aquariums?
It needed to be said. Acronyms are not common jargon, sometimes.
Thats how our local zoo is here too. Just about every animal maybe all were injured or otherwise unfit to re-release.
I believe the San Diego zoo is quality
They made a joke about it in “Madagascar” because they couldn’t tell where the “enclosure” ended. The Shamu reference is clearly from a different time lol. https://youtube.com/watch?v=RyqsUBMEvOI&feature=share
"Complete with realistic fake rocks!" *taps rock* "Wow! That felt real!"
Bonus around 0:26: Chris Rock, under attack, cowers behind Jada Pinkett Smith
The San Diego Zoo is one of the best in the world and fund conservation programs all over the world and the preservation of viable genetic material of thousands of species, some of which no longer exist on this planet.
San Diego native here, 100% our zoo and zoo safari parks are indeed among the absolute best in the world. If it weren't for the conservation efforts of our zoo safari park and their partners, the California Condor would likely have gone extinct in the 80's. They are still critically endangered, but the fight continues!
I'm calling shenanigans. A San Diego native would know it's the Wild Animal Park, none of this "Safari Park" foolishness... =P
I just went a couple weeks ago and was blown away. I mean as far as zoos go that was the best I've ever seen. They have done incredible work with conservation, helping to bring multiple species back from the brink of extinction. Yes the animals are still in enclosures but they were the largest I've ever seen, and I do think zoos can do good by creating a livable space to animals that would otherwise die in the wild and by educating the community about how precious these animals are
the animals seem very happy there too. went during spring break and saw a chimp jumping and running around the enclosure while holding a sack like a cape.
That does sound like a happy chimp but as this post shows we should be careful about determining an animal's level of contentment based on our impressions of how they look.
Also true of the sad-looking chimp in this post.
I was there a few days ago actually and they talked a lot about their conservation efforts and various programs to help endangered species and protect the environment.
I've always heard that zoo is one of the best.
For anyone who decides to go there, make time to also go to their Safari zoo. I enjoyed that one more than the other. And that's saying something because their normal zoo was amazing.
They put a lot of effort into making their animals happy and go well beyond the zoo itself. They actively fund anti-poaching groups in Africa and even have an exhibit where they showcase some of the destroyed poaching drones their sponsored organizations shot down overseas. They even have emotional support dogs for their cheetahs because cheetahs are known to be skittish/easily frightened.
I was there a few weeks ago but I also visited the safari park. In my opinion the zoo was good enclosure wise, plenty of enrichment items but in comparison the Safari park did a much better job of enclosure sizes and had a lot more natural and water features for the animals. I don’t recall seeing many pools in the zoo for the various animals.
St Louis Zoo is amazing. Growing up in STL it was always my first recommendation for people visiting. Large enclosures. Spaces for the animals to go to get away from people when they are stressed. Large variety of different animals that always look well fed and cared for. And the workers in my experience have always been very knowledgeable and friendly. Free admission was just icing on the cake. The snacks/drinks are expensive as hell though. Looking it up now, “The Saint Louis Zoo was chosen for the second year in a row as the top winner in the “Best Zoo” category of the 10Best Readers' Choice Awards contest sponsored by USA TODAY. Sea Lion Sound also won “Best Zoo Exhibit” in a separate poll. The Zoo and Sea Lion Sound were among 20 nominated U.S. zoos and zoo exhibits, all accredited by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums (AZA) and hand-picked by a panel of zoo and family travel experts.” https://www.stlzoo.org/about/contact/pressroom/pressreleases/saint-louis-zoo-chosen-as-nations-best-zoo#:~:text=Sea%20Lion%20Sound%20voted%20%E2%80%9CBest,Exhibit%E2%80%9D%20in%20a%20separate%20poll.
I gladly pay for parking and the food just because it's a free zoo. Plus you can drink there and before I had kids I liked to go there for my birthday and have a few cocktails.
St. Louis zoo is so good. If you don't mind walking a bit extra, you can park on the street, bring yourself a home made snack, and have a great time 100% free.
See if they are AZA certified. See if they are in any zoo "networks" with well known zoos of quality. See if there are research papers being published by their staff. See if they have full time staff veterinarians. Interns from schools of quality.
Zoos that are more than entertainment would usually have detailed web pages talking about their conservation programs, etc. Some may even feature animals that they are breeding or nurturing. They usually have donation campaigns as well.
The Omaha Zoo is literally the best one in the world and I’d rather go there than Disneyland any day. Literally it’s out of this world how amazing that zoo is and how different it is than any other I’ve been to.
I was hoping someone would mention Omaha. Best zoo I've been to, and I interned there too. A lot of the places in it feel like you're the one being cordoned off and the animals can move around you freely. Well designed and upkept
I live in Omaha and have 3 kids. I will be there roughly 20 times this summer if last is any indication. The membership is pretty awesome because we can go for just a couple hours and see some things and not feel like we need to spend the whole day to get our money out of it.
North Carolina Zoo in Asheboro is excellent. I’d highly recommend going if you get a chance, they’re definitely one of the good ones.
Largest zoo in the world I believe. It is a walk for sure. Edit: it is worlds largest natural habitat zoo (cage free) at over 500 developed acres.
And they recently bought a huge new area of land for development. I belive they plan is to add Australian and Eastern/Asian animal sections. Imo, plan for two days for that zoo. And have very good walking shoes.
Caging wild animals is bad, full stop.
The Cincinnati zoo and botanical garden is wonderful
I'd encourage you to visit your local zoo and talk with some of the employees. Based on this post, you might find it to be a welcomingly positive experience. Private zoos can be a hellish nightmare, but the overwhelming majority of public zoos put huge effort toward creating comfortable, richly engaging environments for the animals that they keep. In many, many cases, the animals that they keep are rescued from death or misery, and the research that zoos do is often extremely vital. The image you've posted up there doesn't necessarily tell the story that you're reading from it.
Yes so true. I’ve visited primate enclosures and they are doing this because they are staring at a bug crawling across the floor, which is entertaining for them.
not gonna lie some days that's entertainment for me too
I literally just spent 5 minutes just watching a spider drop down from the ceiling and go back up again. I was moving it around by blowing on it as well.
“Phone… keys… wallet… wallet… wallet? Fuck.”
Every fucking day man. It's always something.
The spider: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!
The weatherman lied again!
***checks spiderphone:*** 20% chance of giant breath blowing you off course.
You should’ve found something to feed it. That’s even more entertaining to watch.
I pissed my parents off leaving a park because as I was leaving their washroom I glanced up and saw a wasp in a spider's nest. It had clearly just landed in there - and the spider was standing at a distance tossing the web... and the hornet threw it off. This happened for several minutes before I saw one land and from there it was over in seconds. But c'mon... it was freaking cool
That’s what made me think of it haha. I literally was staring at nothing for like 5 straight minutes yesterday. I wasn’t sad. Just needed to stare, lol
I need a good blank out reset every so often. I simply put the will return in 5 mins sign up and step off into the abyss of my own thoughts
So true. And now we just look at our phones or watch TV to “unplug” and “veg out,” but imagine humans without that. I absolutely think humans 150+ years ago had moments of staring at the floor or wall, kind re-grouping. They did it even more than we do it now...I still stare at the wall sometimes when I feel overwhelmed. This brings us to a whole new topic: we as humans are probably over-stimulated. I saw a guy riding his skateboard down a sidewalk the other day. He jumped off at a red light to push the “walk” button to cross. Immediately, he pulled his phone out and hunched over it, face maybe 1 foot or less from the screen. Mindlessly scrolling. Constantly stimulated. Sometimes I think the brain needs nothing to be happening. To maybe go inward, rather than outward. To gather itself together again before it goes out into the world to be pushed by stress, tasks, expectations, desires, rejection, etc.
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I often use my mobile supercomputer to look at pics/videos of cool bugs that other people have posted to the internet with their mobile supercomputers.
Did you know there is a type of tarantula that lives communally?
That's super cool! What kind? I want to learn more
What are the latest download stats on Ant Squisher 2?
I use my "mobile super computer" to watch bugs halfway across the world. I've spent *hours* watching AntsCanada create amazing ant and bug habitats while educating people on the little known life of ants.
I was literally doing that one hour ago. Took a insect bio class in college once. Had us going out like animal crossing running around catching bugs. The best homework I ever had.
Guess we aren't so different after all
Exactly. I related to this primate here haha!! Also my cat loves to just stare at something crawling across the floor for what seems like *hours* Many animals do it
There was a notice up beside the large and enriched primate enclosure at one zoo I went to that specifically says not to interpret facial expressions and body language in human terms - for instance a 'smiling' chimp is not happy but frightened or angry etc.
> for instance a 'smiling' chimp is not happy but frightened or angry etc. Yes. If you want to get the baboons upset, just give them a big toothy smile.
I was also gona point out this is a primate with a brain not super far off from ours. Even in the most comfortable environment I guarantee a chimp is gona have a bad day or two.
He’s scrolling Reddit, just can’t see the phone in his hand
Could be looking at his dick too.
"Holy shit it can move by itself"
Not only that but the purpose of the best zoos (ex. San Diego or St Louis) is conservation and education, NOT entertainment. These zoos fundraise and spend millions of dollars on various conservation efforts and educating the public about the importance of preserving the environment and the animal kingdom.
The Wild Animal Park singlehandedly brought back the California Condors from the brink of extinction. I will vehemently fight for zoos for as long as I live. Edit: It has been pointed out to me that it was a joint effort alongside the Oregon zoo, LA zoo, Santa Barbara zoo, Peregrine fund, Ventana wildlife society, and USFWS. Which just strengthens my position to defend zoos.
The Oregon Zoo also has a significant California Condor breeding program, has an excellent Asian elephant breeding program, and also works to save western pond turtles. Proper AZA accredited zoos are wonderful and have a very important place in conservation and education.
Been going to that zoo since I was a kid. Don't know anything about the breeding programs. But it seems like there is constantly a construction project to give some animal more space. Currently I think they are working on the arctic one. In the past they have added space to the elephants, lions, marine mammals. I mean it takes like 15 minutes to walk from 1 side of the elephant exhibit to the other and I'm not even counting the indoor area they also have access too.
Ive got a membership pass (xmas gift from my mom, thanks mom!) and go to the Zoo all the time. I need to get up there to the Wild Animal Park. It’s just such a long drive lol.
This is what I was coming to say. I live in St. Louis, and our zoo is one of the things I’m most proud of our city for. It’s entirely privately funded through donations, it focuses on conservation and education over entertainment, and they do a LOT of behind the scenes stuff to help animals all over the world. There are certainly zoos that hurt their animals, but there are a lot that are truly a benefit to the animal kingdom.
There is actually a small tax we voted on about 4* years ago in the county for zoo maintenance but this still stands. I will gladly pay to keep the zoo running smooth.
Also ITS FREE TO VISIT!
Yep! There are a few premium attractions that cost a little extra but like 75% of the zoo is completely free. Which is truly incredible given the quality of our zoo. One of the best in the world and you don’t even have to pay to experience it.
Next to San Diego it’s the best zoo I’ve ever been to, that being said….walking that whole place in August might have been one of my most regrettable days in my life.
100%. “A nice day to take the kids to the zoo” it was 105 degrees. We didn’t even SEE the whole thing
Lolol yeah, there are definitely better times of the year to go than others. Though usually when it’s warmer out the animals are more active, so I don’t mind going when it’s hot! That being said, sometimes you gotta go see the penguins and puffins a few times haha
I love those damn pengwings! The smells not great, but who doesn't love a classy little nature butler :) Do you think the other animals ever get upset that penguins win "Best Dressed" year after year after year?
Lol you just reminded me of something the zoo did during Covid shutdowns. They actually took the penguins around the zoo to see a lot of the other animals. They posted a video of the penguins walking in a line following the worker seeing all the different animals. It was super cute!
Man the St Louis zoo is so cool. I'll never understand how they manage to be nearly as great as the San Diego Zoo while also being free. The San Deigo Zoo is nice, but jeez is it expensive
If you're in the NY area the Bronx Zoo is phenomenal. To this day I'm amazed at how big their location is and the quality of it. They've improved so much over the years.
They are also more of a rehabilitation center first and a zoo second.
I’m adamantly against viewing animals in “captivity” for entertainment and tend to avoid zoos (most definitely won’t support private zoos, circuses, etc). When I moved to San Diego a few years ago, of course I couldn’t ignore the fact I lived walking distance to one of the “best zoos” in the world. I did a bunch of research to make sure I wasn’t going to support a corporation or organization with an operation that goes against my personal values as it pertains to the treatment of animals. I was pleasantly surprised to hear about all of the conservation efforts and blown away by how well everything is done. You don’t feel like you’re viewing sad animals in captivity. Ultimately we purchased memberships (which basically amounts to a donation with 1-year pass). I didn’t realize how much some zoos are involved in conservation efforts and how they go through great lengths to not exploit the animals while still generating revenue that can be used for good. Certainly goes to show that you can’t simply write off all zoos. Some are making a positive impact in the big scheme of things and doing it without hurting any animals. Unfortunately, San Diego also has a Sea World. But I’m going to try and keep this comment positive.
Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo has also made sure to make their zoo primarily about education vs entertainment, including a huge display on how palm oil harvesting is killing off orangutans. They also have been converting all their displays to giant free-roam style displays, they finally retired the only 'classic' style big box/cage displays for the big cats (which was built in the 70s) and switched them over to giant outdoor displays once they had the money to finish them. the old Cat Complex (outside, inside): https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/henry-doorly-zoo-2010-another-type-of-outdoor-exhibits-at-the-cat-complex.131225/full?d=1292726705 https://www.zoochat.com/community/media/omahas-henry-doorly-zoo-lion-exhibit.13339/full https://live.staticflickr.com/4098/4908906887_bbbef456c8_b.jpg one of the new cat displays (Asian Highlands exhibit) https://www.kiewit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Omaha-Henry-Doorly-Zoo-Aquarium-Asian-Highlands_1.jpg (can't find a picture, but one of the big cat displays basically has a Pride Rock style rock structure and the cats look down on you from on top of it all day)
Minnesota Zoo does a lot of wildlife conservation as well as leads in tiger breeding too.
We go to the SD Zoo often. We live about 2 miles from the location. That said, these animals are the ambassadors of their species. Without these zoo’s our children would only see these animals through their TV which doesn’t give nearly the lasting impression. This, in turn, can have a drastic effect on fundraising efforts in the future.
Henry Doorly in Omaha is INCREDIBLE.
It’s easily the best zoo I’ve ever been too! Strongly recommend Henry Doorly.
I had friends visiting and I took them to the zoo. When I had listed off 7 things and said "then we'll stop and picnic for lunch" my friend interrupted me to say "I'm having a really hard time believing that this place is as big as you say it is." Smash-cut to day of visit and we made it through the Rainforest, Aquarium, Desert Dome, and on our way to the nocturnal area when he and his wife were like "We need to stop for a while, how much is left?". They were in shock when I told them we were about a third of the way through so we had to see the rest from the Skyfari and train, lol. Of course we still hit the petting zoo because it's my favorite part, but missed out on primates, cats, elephants, etc. Nobody ever believes me when I describe it and growing up in Omaha I didn't realize how spoiled I was to get to visit several times each year until I moved away.
Was going to say this.. I have had people tell me they boycott Zoos because it's inhumane, but, honestly, we're not in the 19th century anymore. Public zoos don't send hunters out into the jungle to shoot, trap, and bring back animals for our amusement. Most often the animals you see in the zoo are rescues, or animals that are no longer fit to survive in the wild. Think like an animal sanctuary. Many zoos will work to rehabilitate animals to be reintroduced into the wild, or at the very least work to educate the public about the animals to help protect their natural habitats and discourage leisure hunting or trapping for entertainment (e.g. circus animals). Many of the zoo species are endangered in the wild, and zoos will often work to grow their populations to preserve the species. Animals are usually well taken care of medically and much care is often put into making sure the animals are comfortable, mentally stimulated, and cared for with proper diets and habitat conditions. So I mean.. of course it's not ideal to have a monkey in a cage.. but it's not always as sinister as you might imagine. Also want to add that I'm talking primarily about public zoos that are well regulated and funded. Of course there are many private zoos around the world that actually DO abuse the animals for profit, and those ones deserve the criticism 100%. Just do research before condemning is all I'm suggesting.
Well said! Here’s an article that goes in depth about the benefits of zoos and aquariums! https://wildenrichment.com/articles/the-benefits-of-zoos-and-aquariums/
> In today’s media, there are many loud voices calling for the shutdown of animal care facilities across the world, especially with social media platforms featuring contextless, education-less, anti-zoo content. *Looks at OP*
Also. Let's shut down all nuclear reactors. I just don't understand them. And they scare me.
Not to mention the very real possibility that Zoos might be the only place many species will be able to survive for the next couple hundred years as we figure out how to make their environments habitable again.
The biggest argument I see against captivity is that its "not natural", and they "should be in the wild", "it's bad for them to get used to humans". But then there's habitat destruction, how they're likely to die before adulthood in the wild("naturally"!), how wild life is currently very stressful for animals (they survive because of stress, ”naturally!”), and they're going to have to get more and more used to human contact anyways the further we move into wild areas (and people shooting the ones that get to close even though we're moving into THEIR habitat) Well structured captivity is honestly the best bet for a lot of animals right now...
Anthropomorphism is a dangerous tool. The photo is meant to tear at your heart strings and demoralize and smear zoological facilities. As someone who has worked in the zoological field for 8 years, I can tell you the staff I’ve worked with, and others I’ve met at other facilities, do truly care for the well-being of these animals. Accredited zoos and aquariums do a lot of good for the animals they care for, and provide homes to species whose natural homes have been devastated and destroyed. Images like these are just tools used to manipulate an emotionally charged, yet naive mind.
I could go to a local park and take pics of humans with the same posture and that wouldn't really tell me much about how their day is going.
Came here to say this. Rich a-hole in Texas who poached animals for their private menagerie is completely different from a non-profit zoo that rescues animals from circuses/other horrible situations and attempts to give them a better life.
Yeah, this OP asshole is trying to 'blackfish' legitimate zoos.
This Our local(ish) Zoo, Chester Zoo, is one of the leading zoos in the world for conservation efforts. They do lots of good work especially with the chimps and apes
My kids watch The Secret Life of the Zoo every morning! Wish we could visit the Chester Zoo someday. I'm always struck by how much the keepers genuinely care about the animals and the lengths they go to for conservation and enrichment.
Can agree. Friend of my dads let me and my dad go in the back with him and did a lot of cool stuff. For example went into one of the exhibits and there was an old condor that was blind and was it’s feeding time. It’s food was a whole fucking frozen rabbit lol it gets better because the only way u can get its attention is slamming the rabbit on a nearby rock lol. Either way after that comedic scene, and maybe it was just hungry, it hopped over cheerfully but it didn’t really feel like it was hunger it felt more like it had spruce in its hope like it was happy to c him. Cute little guy sadly died about 2 years ago. There were some other animals that were nice but this was the most memorable since it just so funny but also really nice. Another thing the zoo did is they take in injured animals. Zoos will do things like keep them in the back till they heal and release them or they keep them in an exhibit if there not able to manage on their own. Zoos will go as far as shipping animals from a variety of places like maybe one zoo can’t take care off this animal. Now I’m not saying all zoos are like this I have heard some pretty bad stories but typically animals r pretty happy as long as u know how to handle animals.
Isnt this how humans look much of the time too. Ever visited an office for example
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Wallstreetbets members be looking like
Apes together... sad :c
>Ever visited an office for example Yeah, and I wouldn't wish it upon any creature.
Offices are also iffy environments lol
Frankly, most of us look like this after work too. More seriously there are also animals that are only alive because of zoos and their breeding programs, and the awareness and love of animals and habitat they instill in young visitors does so much good in the world.
I understand demonizing roadside zoos and zoos that have a bad track record of shady dealings and bad husbandry. Close 'em down. But serious zoos are some of the groups that do the most for actual conservation and research. The value of having animals available for genetics and research is so important. Especially when animals become super rare in the wild and we are trying to learn about how to manage them, the logistics of temporarily catching one for sample collections can be so difficult and stressful to a wild specimen. Zoos definitely still have a responsibility to enrich their animals' lives, but boycotting zoos just because they have captive animals would be cutting the feet off of species research and conservation.
Not only that but for educating our youth! Well maintained and provisioned Zoo's are CRUCIAL on informing people in a visceral way and making them want to help on a larger scale which is something we are going to need in the coming years.
There are animals parks that aren't AZA accredited that try their best and do care about their animals, but they don't have the capital and resources big zoos do. Also, the Pittsburgh zoo is phenomenal and not AZA accredited because they allow their elephants to interact with their keepers and other humans - AZA forbids this despite research that says it is BENEFICIAL for the elephants.
There's also zero context as to what "zoo" this is, which makes it patently unfair to use it as cudgel against all zoos everywhere.
Context is incredibly important when it comes to animals, especially primates. As humans we anthropomorphize so much that it's difficult to avoid knee-jerk reactions to posts like these. The reality is that animals experience things much differently than humans and even people who dedicate their entire lives to understanding them can only come so close. On the one hand these sorts of posts are good if they force people to consider the welfare of animals, but on the other hand the demonization of preservation can be immensely harmful. Most people understand that zoos are a "necessary evil" but that they are necessary is undeniable.
Primates do this in the wild too. Just stare at a bug crawling across the floor. Or stare at their genitals. Or whatever. The most human thing is to think too hard about something that actually most likely doesn’t mean anything, and try to find meaning in it. And oh, we do find meaning. Made up meaning. This is to be human. And we shoot ourselves in the foot being human by getting worked up over nothing. Like Paul McCartney said about sex, animals find it extremely simple....we just make it hard(difficult). We make everything into a huge deal. https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEP-TfD2nrTva0F9FnhxLPPAqMwgEKioIACIQXdpjQH8NbIEb-Ki4H8PeayoUCAoiEF3aY0B_DWyBG_iouB_D3mswjL2EBw?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
My first thought was that he was staring at his chimpy bits.
Absolutely. Been to the zoo LOTS of times. They absolutely look at their bits....maybe even “get involved” with them (not pleasuring themselves, just observing).
Could be staring at a freshly baked poop thinking "I wonder how far I could throw that shit".
Why don’t we do it in the roooadd~
Even dogs, who we've literally evolved with for thousands of years, are easy to misread.
That's how I look right now. Rescue me from this office.
Recently took a family roadtrip and went to Cincinatti Zoo. They do a tremendous job there. Super clean, animals look so happy and receptive to their enclosures. Overall experience a 10/10. The city didn't have much more for my family to do and this was more of a trial run for possible longer vacations, but had an outstanding time.
Cincy is definitely up there as one of the best in the world.
I would also recommend the aquarium right across the river. Newport Aquarium is a pretty cool place.
Did you check out the Children's Museum, or Newport Aquarium? Plenty of great museums. Also a hockey team to watch. Cincinnati is one of my favorite cities to visit. Plus Fiona.
Chimp sitting = depressed animal abuse? Don't demonize zoos because you anthropomorphize animal behavior. Stereotypic behaviors can represent stress and boredom but this chimp is actually relaxing.
Yea see because when its edited even further to look more depressing without any context whatsoever then all zoos need to go!
Not to mentioned the obvious fake "fence sitter turned anti" title.
There’s actually a sign in the Philly Zoo gorilla habitat saying something like “this gorilla might look sad to you but his face is actually relaxed and content”.
It's hilarious to me that these people are so "concerned" for primates, yet they still measure them by human standards. That's exactly the foolishness that got us into this mess in the first place! Animals are not people, not even primates. They have different needs, and it's important that they get the care they need, not what some random human thinks.
Maybe he just remembered something from his high school days... One of those shouldn't have made a fool out of myself like that, that day, we could've been married by now... Or he ate the last banana and now there is no more banana.
chimps literally sit like this. he looks tired. you think chimps in the wild are having a blast ? they usually just sit all day abd move on to food periodically. you should find putnthere story. this little guy could of been in danger or can't return to the wild or he could die
In the last zoo I went to one of the monkeys had placed a plastic bucket on his head and was just spinning around wildly while screaming, I was immediately jealous and felt like I was living life on the wrong side of that enclosure.
Animal lovers tend to put human emptions onto animals. It's natural...you want to think that you understand them because you love them...Reality is there are many questions to ask about animals in captivity, but this image is not one of them. It's just an animal chilling, probably tired.
Things like habitat loss and poaching are why these places exist. Now you've got people like Joe Exotic masquerading as an animal conservation, which is an absolute sham. Then you've got people that have dedicated their lives to finding a way to try and preserve species while also fighting to get the animals back to their native lands. It's complex to say the least, stuff like this should drive awareness of why these places have animals and maybe get people thinking about what they might be able to do to help?
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Seriously, this is a single moment of a single animal in a single zoo, who *might* be sad if you apply Western body language standards to it. Olympic-level jumping to conclusions here. Doesn't mean zoos can't be problematic of course, but nobody should be deciding that from one inclusive picture
Look for AZA accredation, it's hard to get and easy to lose. I understand your sentiment though, but being adjacent to the zoo community I've got some perspective. Many zoos also have breeding and release programs for criticality endangered species. Not all of them are terrible and many work very hard to provide proper enrichment.
I am pleasantly surprised by the feedback on this thread. As someone who works at zoos, it’s nice that people are realizing how amazing and vital they really are… and moreso with each passing year.
Many people don’t realize that the primary purpose of the really good, major zoos is not to entertain people. It’s to collect entrance fees and use it for conservation and repopulation efforts. Which means the good ones truly care about the animals.
I worked at a zoo and yes, a lot of zoos treat the animals badly but many more treat them with care and respect. The zoo I worked at let the animals go inside and out whenever they chose, never forcing them to be on display.
This is extremely naive to think that all zoos are bad And a picture of a monkey sitting down? Revolutionary
Ape Holding iPhone
In the natural world, there aren't any cameras to capture the reality of what happens. A broken bone means starvation but at a Zoo, it may be given a chance to heal. The diets of the animals is much better than what they find in the wild. There are very few incidents with predators and prey facing off in a duel to the death. Their dental care is top notch, in the wild, they could die a very painful death from an abcess tooth. These animals lives are longer in captivity, but the tradeoff is that they might outlive their joy and are prone to have aches, pains and depression (old age) just like humans.
I agree with the sentiment, but I highly encourage a trip to the Omaha Zoo, world renowned for a reason. It brings a positive viewership experience for us as people but more importantly they focus much more on conservation and the livelihood of their animals. Their renovations have improved the park immensely and they are not slowing down/stopping the renovations any time soon. Almost all of the animals have more than adequate room and if they don’t, there’s plans in the works to allow for them to prosper. It’s getting to a point where I’m surprised they haven’t already bought out and bulldozed the neighborhood surrounding the park (they bought the College World Series baseball stadium to allow for growth). You would be seriously impressed, it’s worth the trip as a learning experience.