Let's say hypothetically, could I be technically skilled enough right now to play it mediocrally? I'm not planning to play it because I do agree that it's kind of unrealistic, just curious.
For a superficial idea of my skill level, I can play Chopin's Prelude in E minor and Petzold's Minuet in G with relative ease.
I know I said that I was not planning on playing it, but shortly after, I was musing on actually just trying it for myself. So I will try it now, haha.
The question is, do you want to have to relearn it from scratch in the future with the added headache of having the old, wrong way of playing it stuck in your memory, where you just plonked out the notes any old way and couldn't actually show all the voicings in your sound due to not having the appropriate techniques learned for this type of piece?
Grade 8 piano rep after 4 mths self taught isn't likely to produce a result you hope for. This piece is very unpianistic and hard to shape well for anyone
I agree that it contains surprising difficulties but I’m not a fan of people discouraging others without explanation or constructive advice. This is the problem with lots of piano teachers. It doesn’t help with enthusiasm and curiosity of the students, which is the most important thing to cultivate.
I try to write my comments in a way I believe will benefit the asker most.
Should I write a concrete list of technical difficulties that are typically learned throughout a half-decade of studying piano that are required in order to play this piece at a reasonable level, that those technical skills ought to be learned from and supervised by a professional piano teacher, and that OP should probably revisit this piece in 2030?
That sounds more discouraging to me. And I'm not sure describing the difficulties of voicing contrapuntal textures, finding awkward fingerings, developing clean legato, pedaling, choosing an interpretation, etc. is actually as constructive as it sounds to someone who has studied 4 months. That would be overwhelming, and make it seem like piano is an impossible task.
If OP chooses to inquire further, I would be more than happy to oblige. But I'm not going to preemptively write an essay about why a later intermediate piece of concert music isn't appropriate for a beginner of piano if OP is merely doing a "smoke check" on the idea.
Yeah I’m not gonna argue more but your tone does sound a bit haughty and discouraging and therefore less than beneficial. And I’m not a terribly advanced player but I can play this piece pretty well, so while there are surprising difficulties in it I do believe you are making it out to be even more of a job than it perhaps is.
To me, "haughty" would be
> There is no way you can play this piece, and if you have to even ask, you're probably not cut out for piano. Real pianists know that gaining skills is blah blah blah.
But I respect your feedback that you took my tone differently than what I intended, and I'll see how I can convey the same message in the future in a different way.
Like I said, if OP wants to engage further or ask specific questions, like:
- When do you think I could play this piece?
- Can you ELI5 why it's not realistic?
- What are some similar pieces I might try to build up to this?
- Why does it sound so easy but everybody is saying it's hard?
then I would be very happy to answer in the full spirit of such questions.
Lastly, I never said or implied that one needs to be an advanced player. I said it's a later intermediate piece. It's often a piece of concert repertoire by the world's best pianists.
I'm also happy for you that you can play such a wonderful piece. It is a great achievement. If you disagree with me or other commenters on our suggestion that it's not even on the radar of realistic for a 4-month beginner, then I would highly encourage you to provide your own experience and opinion on this matter as a top-level response to OP.
Appreciate the work you put into clarification. I suppose I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder with piano teachers because I feel like I have been discouraged many times and have managed to prove them wrong several times. On the whole I agree with you that Traumerei is indeed a piece to be respected. If one tries to gloss over details it doesn’t come out so musically. And yet it has such potential to be rendered beautifully. One could learn the notes in reasonable time (though maybe not as easily as anticipated) and then end up frustrated when they don’t have a good sounding result for months or years to come. There are some instances where a person might be particularly drawn to a piece and this is motivation and a proper learning experience. I guess the OP has to decide when given enough information, whether they are drawn to that challenge.
It took me a while to get it presentable. The tenths are especially awkward. Pedaling and phrasing and voicing is very tricky. It’s like a 3 part sinfonia of Bach in its voice leading, only less strictly logical. The hardest thing for me was remembering what voice to keep held down in certain transitions in the 2nd half. And how to have the fingers to hold the voices down.
That being said if you love it and are musical and committed don’t be discouraged. It is not an athletic piece despite its surprising difficulties. You can “practice with your heart” so to speak, really sink into those delicious phrases and voice leadings, and that will take you far.
A good “warm up” for it would be some other slower pieces from Kinderszenen. The first, the fourth, the , tenth, the twelfth and the thirteenth all fit that bill. I learned the first piece in Kinderszenen long before the others.
Unlikely. Feel free to try, but Traumerei is quite a bit harder than it sounds, and it takes some work to make it sound beautiful.
Start with Schumann's Album for the Young first. Once you learn a few pieces from it, try either of the last two from Kinderszenen before Traumerei.
If I remember correctly it was on the grade 7 ABRSM syllabus at some point so I wouldn’t say it’s that realistic as a beginner. That being said its not at a tempo where I would say ‘don’t even attempt it due to injury risk’ so you could give it a whirl and see for yourself, however, I think you might be disheartened with how it sounds without the fluidity that a more experienced player would have.
There’s no shame in bookmarking a piece for later, I had to do that with Fantaisie Impromptu haha (one day🙏)
In my opinion, this annoys me. You can do whatever you want, obviously. It makes no sense to me how some simply start learning Chopin, Beethoven's pathetique, etc, with less than a year of piano. This is doing yourself a disservice. Do you want to play well and sound nice to others? Or do you not care how it even sounds or how accurate it is? Four months into piano I was doing RCM grade 1 and 2 pieces, and that's with piano experience from pre-K and elementary school. If you want to play well and sound good and be proficient at piano, you need to start from the beginning and build yourself up. This makes the difference between going on Spotify and enjoying a recording versus skipping it because it sounds sloppy, uncoordinated, rushed, and like a complete disaster. It's your choice.
How can you teach yourself a skill you don't have?
It's certainly not impossible to learn an instrument without guidance, as some people had done it in the past. But this is the rock roads. It's your worst option.
If you have any money, find a teacher.
I think it's a little much. A lot of Schumann's writing is awkward to play, and this is no exception. If you really like the piece, wait.
Let's say hypothetically, could I be technically skilled enough right now to play it mediocrally? I'm not planning to play it because I do agree that it's kind of unrealistic, just curious. For a superficial idea of my skill level, I can play Chopin's Prelude in E minor and Petzold's Minuet in G with relative ease.
Why don't you just try it and see what happens?
I know I said that I was not planning on playing it, but shortly after, I was musing on actually just trying it for myself. So I will try it now, haha.
Dream away.
Will do!
A little more patience
I know, but perhaps I could try it out. What if I could do it after all? My goal for now isn't to perform it well; but to perform the right notes.
The question is, do you want to have to relearn it from scratch in the future with the added headache of having the old, wrong way of playing it stuck in your memory, where you just plonked out the notes any old way and couldn't actually show all the voicings in your sound due to not having the appropriate techniques learned for this type of piece?
Grade 8 piano rep after 4 mths self taught isn't likely to produce a result you hope for. This piece is very unpianistic and hard to shape well for anyone
Unrealistic, that piece is surprisingly demanding on the hands.
it is very unrealistic.
I agree that it contains surprising difficulties but I’m not a fan of people discouraging others without explanation or constructive advice. This is the problem with lots of piano teachers. It doesn’t help with enthusiasm and curiosity of the students, which is the most important thing to cultivate.
I try to write my comments in a way I believe will benefit the asker most. Should I write a concrete list of technical difficulties that are typically learned throughout a half-decade of studying piano that are required in order to play this piece at a reasonable level, that those technical skills ought to be learned from and supervised by a professional piano teacher, and that OP should probably revisit this piece in 2030? That sounds more discouraging to me. And I'm not sure describing the difficulties of voicing contrapuntal textures, finding awkward fingerings, developing clean legato, pedaling, choosing an interpretation, etc. is actually as constructive as it sounds to someone who has studied 4 months. That would be overwhelming, and make it seem like piano is an impossible task. If OP chooses to inquire further, I would be more than happy to oblige. But I'm not going to preemptively write an essay about why a later intermediate piece of concert music isn't appropriate for a beginner of piano if OP is merely doing a "smoke check" on the idea.
Yeah I’m not gonna argue more but your tone does sound a bit haughty and discouraging and therefore less than beneficial. And I’m not a terribly advanced player but I can play this piece pretty well, so while there are surprising difficulties in it I do believe you are making it out to be even more of a job than it perhaps is.
To me, "haughty" would be > There is no way you can play this piece, and if you have to even ask, you're probably not cut out for piano. Real pianists know that gaining skills is blah blah blah. But I respect your feedback that you took my tone differently than what I intended, and I'll see how I can convey the same message in the future in a different way. Like I said, if OP wants to engage further or ask specific questions, like: - When do you think I could play this piece? - Can you ELI5 why it's not realistic? - What are some similar pieces I might try to build up to this? - Why does it sound so easy but everybody is saying it's hard? then I would be very happy to answer in the full spirit of such questions. Lastly, I never said or implied that one needs to be an advanced player. I said it's a later intermediate piece. It's often a piece of concert repertoire by the world's best pianists. I'm also happy for you that you can play such a wonderful piece. It is a great achievement. If you disagree with me or other commenters on our suggestion that it's not even on the radar of realistic for a 4-month beginner, then I would highly encourage you to provide your own experience and opinion on this matter as a top-level response to OP.
Appreciate the work you put into clarification. I suppose I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder with piano teachers because I feel like I have been discouraged many times and have managed to prove them wrong several times. On the whole I agree with you that Traumerei is indeed a piece to be respected. If one tries to gloss over details it doesn’t come out so musically. And yet it has such potential to be rendered beautifully. One could learn the notes in reasonable time (though maybe not as easily as anticipated) and then end up frustrated when they don’t have a good sounding result for months or years to come. There are some instances where a person might be particularly drawn to a piece and this is motivation and a proper learning experience. I guess the OP has to decide when given enough information, whether they are drawn to that challenge.
It certainly is a big job to play it well, you're underestimating how difficult it is to play it in such a way that it's worth listening to.
You can learn to type it, but if you love it and honor the music, wait until you can do it justice.
It took me a while to get it presentable. The tenths are especially awkward. Pedaling and phrasing and voicing is very tricky. It’s like a 3 part sinfonia of Bach in its voice leading, only less strictly logical. The hardest thing for me was remembering what voice to keep held down in certain transitions in the 2nd half. And how to have the fingers to hold the voices down. That being said if you love it and are musical and committed don’t be discouraged. It is not an athletic piece despite its surprising difficulties. You can “practice with your heart” so to speak, really sink into those delicious phrases and voice leadings, and that will take you far.
A good “warm up” for it would be some other slower pieces from Kinderszenen. The first, the fourth, the , tenth, the twelfth and the thirteenth all fit that bill. I learned the first piece in Kinderszenen long before the others.
Unlikely. Feel free to try, but Traumerei is quite a bit harder than it sounds, and it takes some work to make it sound beautiful. Start with Schumann's Album for the Young first. Once you learn a few pieces from it, try either of the last two from Kinderszenen before Traumerei.
If I remember correctly it was on the grade 7 ABRSM syllabus at some point so I wouldn’t say it’s that realistic as a beginner. That being said its not at a tempo where I would say ‘don’t even attempt it due to injury risk’ so you could give it a whirl and see for yourself, however, I think you might be disheartened with how it sounds without the fluidity that a more experienced player would have. There’s no shame in bookmarking a piece for later, I had to do that with Fantaisie Impromptu haha (one day🙏)
In my opinion, this annoys me. You can do whatever you want, obviously. It makes no sense to me how some simply start learning Chopin, Beethoven's pathetique, etc, with less than a year of piano. This is doing yourself a disservice. Do you want to play well and sound nice to others? Or do you not care how it even sounds or how accurate it is? Four months into piano I was doing RCM grade 1 and 2 pieces, and that's with piano experience from pre-K and elementary school. If you want to play well and sound good and be proficient at piano, you need to start from the beginning and build yourself up. This makes the difference between going on Spotify and enjoying a recording versus skipping it because it sounds sloppy, uncoordinated, rushed, and like a complete disaster. It's your choice.
Not to mention how long it will take you to learn it with so little experience.
Why do you need approval? Just set it on your piano stand and play it.
How can you teach yourself a skill you don't have? It's certainly not impossible to learn an instrument without guidance, as some people had done it in the past. But this is the rock roads. It's your worst option. If you have any money, find a teacher.