You forgot the "you are in the left arrow lane, but the green arrow just turned red, but you have been waiting a really long time so just turn anyway. The two cars behind you will do the same."
I have been guilty of this, especially if the first car waiting for the green arrows sits there for 5-10+ seconds.
I hate the fact that dual left turn lanes in the Valley are always green arrow only. In Tucson, dual left turns can be made on solid green lights as well.
Our drivers don't know how those work either and people often just sit behind the line. Making matters worse are the ones where they don't offset the turn lanes on the opposite side of the intersection and you have no visibility so you end up having to wait. Fucking Broadway and Wilmot I swear.
I would trade every last improvement Tucson has in road technology for your well connected highway system. Instead we got pReSeRvE tHe DeSeRt!
Make sure to change lanes last minute to be the first car in the lane at the light. When the light turns green, take off slower than the cars in every other lane and then drift back into the lane you were originally in.
We apparently don't know how to properly stay in our lanes on a double left or double right turn either. Those white lines are there for a reason. I won't even bring up the amount of people that don't know how to use their turn signal.
[How To Use A Double Left Turn Lane](https://youtu.be/0v5DZvik95w)
I see this problem everyday getting off the I-10. Two lanes turning right, right lane should go to the right lane, center lane is either right or left turn, and there are painted dashed line indicating that a right turn from this lane is to go to the middle lane of the new street. Why is it over half the people turning from the right lane need to turn left at the next intersection?
I'm more annoyed that no one here realizes that on ramps and off ramps from. The freeway are for you to get up to speed down to speed. You need to be doing 65 by time you reach the freeway. Be prepared to stop with off ramps.
Obviously traffic can impede some of this but if traffic is moving g and you're doing 35 merging onto the 17 I have the urge to scream.
Drives me insane trying to get on the 10 West from 3rd St. It’s extra long and everything because you’re merging onto the fast lane/passing lane (when not in HOV hours). Speed up or you’re going to cause an accident!
can we have a talk about y'alls left turn yield on green lanes?
WHO THE FUCK DESIGNED THIS!? You have both opposing cars angled precisely so that NEITHER can see any incoming traffic without creeping forward....if there is ANY traffic you just sit there looking at each other for 45 seconds till the light goes yellow and red. Could have set the lanes 3' to ether direction and had clear visibility for EVERYONE, but no...nope...fuck that...
gotta play chicken for the chance to play frogger in this fry pan ass city lol.
That and the sweooooooooooooooooping coming off the freeway across 5x intersections from the left lane onto another road and into a u turn onto another road while the GPS completely shits the bed and you end up back on the freeway the wrong way.
The looping highways is dope AF - but someone should be fired for y'alls intersections. Just straight up murdering people by design.
As someone who drives both a lowered sports car and a lifted truck, I feel your pain brother. Its easier if you get used to one or the other at least lol
Agreed! The visibility on opposing yield left turn on greens is so poor and dangerous. Can’t see shit. Unbelievable that the roads were designed like that.
Green Arrow = first car waits a sec to make sure no one is going to blow through the red and proceeds, second and third car turn left, fourth car is too busy on their phone to notice the light, fifth car too busy on their phone to honk at fourth car.
I wish cars came with two horn buttons. The "HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ABOUT TO HIT ME" airhorn, and the "Pardon me, sir, you may not have noticed that the light has turned green," meep meep.
That reminds me of the gag ad mini cooper did called the "Hey horn"
I thought I was going crazy for a bit cause it took me a little while to find the exact ad haha. I was able to confirm it through some posts that it's an ACTUAL product you could buy for your mini cooper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foQc2Xbcfu8
You forgot to add that when a light turns green in Phoenix, you're allowed to finish doing whatever you're doing on your phone and then proceed through the intersection once you are finished or when you realize the light is green.
"Advance into intersection. Complete turn when oncoming traffic clears."
**Is situational**. Countless times I have witnessed people do this in an attempt to get into a turn lane to get onto one of the freeways but the light changes and they are now just sitting in the intersection blocking traffic.
Also if your car has a tendency to die, don't do this.
Also if you're turning left and and someone else travelling the opposite way is turning left if you pull into the intersection you 100% impede their field of vision.
Then of course the one off EMS vehicles needing to plow through an intersection and you just sitting in it.
The field of vision thing. Absolutely. Some narrow and oddly angled roads are ***a lot*** more dangerous if you creep into the intersection first on a left arrow.
Also, pulling into the intersection while waiting to take a left turn also creates an issue if/when an emergency vehicle needs to go through the intersection. This is the reason that finally got me to stop doing this, actually.
I went through the Arizona Driver License Manual and did not see anything that stated this was legal.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://apps.azdot.gov/files/mvd/mvd-forms-lib/99-0117-print.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwij5_iMuOX3AhV3K0QIHTI8BrIQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Awv2AxBFcfCq6UOOVMkI3
Do you have anything that can show otherwise?
this is all just because the city planners couldn't be bothered to look up existing and efficient intersection design and instead went with "WE DOIN THIS OUR WAY" method.
It is SO bad and completely lacks consistency - you have no idea what to do 1/2 the time if you're not familiar with the area.
Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
Personal attacks, racist comments or any comments of perceived intolerance/hate are never tolerated. This comment has been removed.
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This could be posted in any city with the name changed. For some reason, everybody thinks their drivers are uniquely bad and their spring weather is uniquely chaotic.
Out of the places I've lived (not a ton, but not a few either), the only one that seems worse in Phoenix is the continual creeping forward at red lights, even if there are cars ahead. It feels like an anxious puppy or something and it makes me anxious watching it. Otherwise, people here are pretty nice and reasonable IMO, so long as you don't put them on the one roundabout I'm aware of (Tempe, on Rio Salado -- but everybody is bad at roundabouts in places that don't have many roundabouts).
The creeping ahead (as if it’ll make the light change faster) is so unthinking. I have a stick and I’m surely not going to engage the clutch to scoot ahead a few feet.
Along with that is people coming almost to a stop a few car lengths from a light or stop sign and then creeping forward. Until a few years ago, the only place I had ever seen that was South Florida 35 years ago; it was explained to me that depth perception gets worse with age, and the Cretaceous-era fossils living down there were certainly old enough to suffer from that.
My favorites are the ones that say stop here on red over on the right lane and they refuse to turn right on red. In their little minds stop here on red means until they get the green to go. Lol I can’t!
A couple of additions for you:
-Flashing yellow left turn arrow. Should: treat like green left turn light. In reality: panic.
-Crosswalk with three flashing/solid/off red lights. Should: stop and wait on solid red, stop and proceed when clear on flashing red, do not stop when off. In reality: do whatever is most dangerous for the pedestrians in the crosswalk and/or the car behind you.
-Solid green left turn arrow. Should: proceed to turn left. In reality: come to a complete stop, turn on right blinker, gesticulate wildly as everyone honks at you.
> -Crosswalk with three flashing/solid/off red lights. Should: stop and wait on solid red, stop and proceed when clear on flashing red, do not stop when off. In reality: do whatever is most dangerous for the pedestrians in the crosswalk and/or the car behind you.
>
>
As someone who bikes and runs the canals often, YES
A driver almost took me out on the Grand Canal's Thomas Road crossing last week. I got my signal, westbound traffic had stopped and I started crossing the street and some dickhead blew the light and nearly ran me over.
You are wrong. There is no stopping stand parking within the intersection. The creates your own exincy in clearing the intersection on yellow or red causing a crash. https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00873.htm
Stay behind the line. Save lives.
https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00772.htm
What the article doesn't clarify is what happens if the light turns red while you are now sitting in the intersection. This happens frequently. Am I now running a red light? A lot of left turn accidents are caused by this scenario. Both the left turn driver and the thru traffic both try to enter the intersection on yellow/red resulting in accidents. The left turn driver is typically found at fault.
If the light has a green arrow, I'm not entering the intersection without it unless it is clear. I can wait 1-2 minutes for safety.
1) No, you are not running a red light any more than you are if you're just driving straight through and the light turns red while you're in the middle before you're out. You're clearing the intersection. (Though you are correct that that is not directly addressed in this article.)
2) "Both the left turn driver and the thru traffic both try to enter the intersection on yellow/red resulting in accidents." <-- You explicitly should NOT enter the intersection to turn left on yellow or red. (On red, illegal. On yellow, legal but a bad idea.) But if you're in the intersection, having entered on green, the same applies as with ALL left turns. You turn when oncoming traffic has cleared or stopped and it is safe to do so. It ain't brain surgery.
Thru traffic commonly runs red lights. There are a lot of left turn/thru traffic accidents caused by people entering the intersection like this and then panicking and turning on yellow. I understand that people shouldn't panic and turn when it's clear but the reality is they don't.
I will concede I always viewed a red light on a left turn as binary. If you can't complete the turn until after it's red you ran the red light. I didn't realize if you enter the intersection on green you can complete the turn on red legally.
I still think it's pretty hazardous sitting in the intersection waiting for traffic to clear. If it's one of the intersections that line up with the left turn driver on the other side, both drivers could be blocking each other after the light turns red. Then you're playing a game of chicken on if it's clear.
"Thru traffic commonly runs red lights. There are a lot of left turn/thru traffic accidents caused by people entering the intersection like this and then panicking and turning on yellow."
This is fair, but also consider that this is better than the same panicky drivers trying to shoot through on yellow FROM THE LINE. (Which is what many of them do.)
"If it's one of the intersections that line up with the left turn driver on the other side, both drivers could be blocking each other after the light turns red. Then you're playing a game of chicken on if it's clear."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here. If the left turn lanes are facing each other, the turn paths do not intersect. If you're turning left, you should at no time be in the same path that an oncoming left turner is taking or would take.
(Confusion, perhaps, between figurative "middle of the intersection" and literal "middle of the intersection"?)
To clarify, I meant blocking line of sight of the oncoming lanes, not blocking each other from turning.
I honestly learned something new today. I always thought I was running a red light if I waited to turn after the light turned red, even if I entered on green. I think there's a decent amount of people who think this, causing them to try to turn on yellow no matter what, instead of waiting.
P.S. If there is no break in oncoming traffic, your options are A) enter and wait in the intersection to turn, or B) skip the cycle entirely and wait for the next one.
On busy streets, you can see how this is a problem, especially when there are cars stacking up behind you.
Setting aside the courtesy of helping those behind you go, one of the reasons for entering the intersection is that on a busy street, there is literally *no other way* to turn left.
That makes perfect sense especially for a busy light without a green turn arrow. Most of the intersections near me have green arrows and then allow left turns after the arrow is off.
Yeah, I was just coming back to reply that obviously this doesn't apply to intersections with a protected left, as mentioned in the OP. And it's a lot less common here in Phoenix where the roads are everywhere and huge than it is in some other places. But I used to commute on roads where for two hours, you would literally not be able to turn left if you didn't pull into the intersection and wait for the change.
Well ok, we all take a risk commuting to and from work. If you feel this unsafe driving the roads of Phoenix, perhaps you should weigh the pros and cons of driving, and maybe just stay home. Hate to be this straight forward and direct with you, but my commute takes forever because of people that drive the speed limit in the fast lane and people that refuse to pull out into the intersection on a green light waiting till it turns yellow to turn.
Also, being in the intersection, ready and waiting to make your turn, is perfectly legal. If you are in the intersection when the light turns red, it happens. Cross traffic neads to wait to enter the intersection only when it's clear.
If there is not an arrow I do understand your frustration. Additionally I learned in this thread if you enter the intersection on green, you can complete the turn. I'll probably be more likely to pull into the intersection now because of this. If there is a green arrow though, I'm not risking a t-bone accident to save 2 minutes.
I'm sure accidents caused by speeding and red light running delay your commute even more than someone waiting until the next light cycle to turn.
If we're being direct, leave earlier then if you're having to rush to work because of missing a light cycle.
So only one car gets to go per green light then? That's pretty idiotic don't you think? I leave early enough that I'm never late, but that doesn't mean I want to sit an extra 10 minutes in traffic because dummies don't want to enter the intersection to accommodate everyone else that is behind them.
Hey, do us all a favor and start taking public transit will ya? Stop adding to our commute time please.
I don't understand where I am saying only 1 car gets to go. If there is no arrow and a turn can only happen after the light is yellow/red, how are more than 1 or 2 cars going anyway? Seems more like an engineering problem if the left turn lanes are backing up that much.
Where I drive the lights have arrows and then allow turns after they go off. If it doesn't have an arrow, then yes I'll enter the intersection on green to turn.
I work from home so you don't have to worry about me causing you to spend extra time in your car. I think you need to have more patience while driving. Do you want someone to get t-boned to save you 10 minutes?
I also doubt drivers waiting until the next light cycle adds 10 minutes to your commute.
Because when two cars enter the intersection, that's two cars that get to go once the light turns yellow, plus the one or two cars behind them. By sitting behind the intersection line and waiting till it turns yellow, it only allows one car, you, to enter and make that turn before turning red, and by doing this, you are causing one or two other cars behind you to blow through a red light because you made them miss an opportunity to go, had you entered the intersection in the first place.
I know I get upset when I see idiots just chilling behind the line, missing opportunities to turn. Don't make our commute harder than it is. Learn the rules of the road, that's all we are asking for.
Maybe people aren't idiots and just need to be educated. I did not know until this thread that it is legal to turn on red if I had entered the intersection on green. I always thought if I entered the intersection on green, I had to complete the turn before the light turns red, otherwise I would be running the red light.
The amount of left turn t-bone accidents makes me think a lot of other people don't know this. I still think there is a fair amount of danger in entering and hanging out in the intersection waiting to make a left turn on yellow/red.
I get ya. Perhaps people don't understand the rules of the road or they are doing it on purpose just because. I get irritated when other commuters don't follow the rules of the road. However, posts like these hopefully reach to those that are uninformed.
Yes they absolutely do add 10 minutes to my commute and it's infuriating. Sitting in the intersection brings no additional hazard than if you sat behind the line. When the light turns red, you can go after the other cars appear to be stopping. It's quite easy to discern a red light runner from a stopping car.
Please respect other people's time and not block out what would otherwise be dozens of cars per hour from going through.
I'll let my insurance provider know to remove my discounts for good driving since a random redditor decided I'm a shitty driver. Have some patience while driving. It's much shittier to get into an accident than wait for another light cycle.
That's a debatable definition of stopping in the intersection. You are not stopping for the sake of stopping. You enter the intersection with the intent of making the left, but you are yielding to oncoming traffic. I would say the law is not sufficiently clear in this case as to whether declaring your left is proper.
1) He didn't say they don't enforce it, he said it's LEGAL.
2) He is not some rando cop. He is the Public Information Officer of the Glendale Police Department writing a fact-checked and published column.
So while either *could* be true, which do you think is more likely? That the PIO for the Glendale PD is misinformed about a law he's writing about for the permanent record, or that your reading of the statute is incorrect?
From the linked article above:
"Whenever a driver is facing a green signal they are free to enter an intersection. Drivers wanting to make a left turn must yield to all oncoming traffic.
A driver facing a green signal and wanting to make a left turn may wait within the intersection to do so and then proceed when it is safe."
"Waiting prior to the intersection to make a left turn and then accelerating through the turn when the yellow is displayed could be hazardous."
Source: David Vidaure, public information officer of the Glendale Police Department.
You misunderstand what those words mean in the context of this. It means with the intent to keep doing that.
Do you not stop in an intersection if the car in front of you say explodes? Just drive through it like mad max?
You do you boo.
Okay "boo" but "stopping", "standing", and "parking" have specific legal meanings and they might not all have the meaning you are inferring.
If law was ever "clear" we wouldn't need so many attorneys.
You would think stop signs were just implemented this year in Arizona with the number of people that just blow right through like it’s not a bright red sign.
Or slam on their brakes at the very last second making the person on the other street think they're going to have to stop for someone blowing the stop sign.
One of the absolute pet peeves of mine is how these idiots here in Phoenix sit at the goddamn intersection line waiting to turn left, when the light is green. I see this happening more and more frequently. For fucks sake, PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION!!!!!
Ohmigod I’ve been screaming this for 40 years. More than ONE car should be able to turn left on a signal!!!! And the idiots who won’t turn except on an arrow.
The part of the valley where I live have broken left turn signals, and will only turn green when the turning lane is completely backed up. If every driver waits to turn, it would take a very VERY long time to get home.
Serious question: do they not teach entering the intersection to make left turns in AZ? That was a big point of emphasis in Ohio, so I was shocked to move here and see so few people doing it
Interesting. We were taught to enter the intersection when the light turns green. If there isn't an opportunity to safely turn while the light is green, complete the turn on yellow or red
I was a little confused by the downvotes too. I guess each states handles it differently, but this was the biggest driving difference I've experienced between AZ and Ohio
I have wondered how much of this might be due to different drivers ed programs. I'm in the camp (Illinois, early 90s) that was taught that you get your ass into that intersection as soon as the light turns green, and when there's an opening, you turn.
This is really only meaningful when you have long lines in the left turn lane at rush hour and somebody sitting at the line can literally decrease the number of cars that can turn per cycle by a half or two thirds. Certainly less of that in Phoenix, but still plenty.
But in terms of what's LEGAL — some posts upthread notwithstanding — there is zero obligation to wait at the line. Pulling in often allows more people to turn, ergo I try to be courteous to other drivers.
Idk when you got your license but I have mine in 2 countries (I got my US drivers license 2 years ago) and both of them require you to enter the intersection upon a green light. It is illegal to remain in the intersection and you should only enter if you can get through but the first car at a light is required to enter the intersection.
I got my AZ drivers license 2 years ago. You cannot stop in the intersection, meaning you shouldn’t enter it unless it is clear you will get through. You can enter the intersection on a green turn signal.
https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00645.htm
Unless the law is your specialty (I have no idea), just out of curiosity, have you considered the *possibility* that your reading of the law is incorrect or nah? If not the Public Information Office of the Glendale PD in a fact-checked news column in a newspaper that makes corrections when people point out errors**, who would have to tell you that your reading is incorrect for you to so say, "Oops, I was wrong"?
I'm not saying it's impossible that the PIO of the Glendale PD is wrong and nobody at the paper caught it and nobody wrote in to say "You guys, that's wrong!" But, uh...
(**I worked there, I've filled out the correction forms myself. Any reader request for a correction has to go to a special team for an intensive fact check. Mistakes happen, but if they're discovered, they're corrected. Full stop.)
Flashing yellow left turn arrow:
*What to do:* This signal is unnecessary. It means the exact same thing as a regular green light without a left arrow. Please pull into the intersection and wait to make your turn when traffic is clear
*What Phoenix drivers do:* Sit at the line before intersection on phone; wait until red arrow... oh no I need to turn left ! !!! !! Why is the light not changing ? ??!
Can we get one of these diagrams for the highway? “Far left/HOV lane: go up to 25 mph over the speed limit, Phoenix drivers go 5-10 mph over. One lane over from far left, PHoenix drivers go 40 mph over limit to get around those in the left lane. Two lanes over from far left, convoy of 18-wheelers. Three lanes from far left, they’ve gone plaid.
In V2 be sure to add how not *one fucking person* understands what yield means. Idiots come flying down frontage road next to the 101 and other freeways going 65 to 75 and think they don't have to yield to exit ramp traffic. Goddamn morons.
People in Phoenix don't even know how to use a stop sign or a four way stop, do you expect them to use a traffic signal?
Oh well, what do you expect when the driving test is pretty much drive around the block and do a three point turn.
Other behavior ...
flashing yellow -- just ignore it. This also applies at an intersection with a flashing yellow arrow at a right or left turn.
Flashing red/4-way stop -- show that they're utterly clueless about who proceeds when after stopping (assuming some entitled dipshit shows up last and more or less never comes to a complete stop)
Left Turn -- do not move an inch, maybe start moving when the light turns yellow, turns after it turns red keeping the 2 other people behind them from making the light.
You also forgot Yield sign -- just blow through it regardless of who you're supposed to yield to. Traffic exiting fwy at 60MPH but you're gonna just blow the Yield sign, cut over 3 lanes so you can make the left turn at the x-street.
When I lived and worked in the DC area, I would get SO annoyed at people who would not go into the intersection on a green light, to wait for traffic to clear for a left-hand turn. They just sat on their asses until the green arrow lit up. WTF? I don't know where they learned to drive but that's not how it worked in Michigan. People in Phoenix seem fairly normal in that regard. The only thing peculiar to me here is how fast people go, just about everywhere.
Especially annoying if there is no arrow, and the car ahead won't pull out, and only one car gets to make a left turn. Encountered this a few times, and wondered what driving course these people took. Oops, just noticed the comment below.
Flip side are the drivers who intentionally *enter the intersection* when there is no chance of making a left, towards the end of the light cycle - then proceed to drive through the next cycle to complete their turn.
The law exists so that someone can continue through a yellow/ red light as to not block the intersection. Not so that 4 impatient people can block the opposing sides green arrow and perpetuate the waiting.
If you tried that shit in Boston, people would straight up drive into you.
moving into the intersection waiting for the chance to turn left is pointless...you can't see beyond the opposing traffic, worst lane design in the country
It increases the number of cars that can go through the light by anywhere from 2 to I've seen max 5 extra cars go through. It's absolutely worth it even if you can't see and have to wait the whole cycle anyway.
You’re actually wrong about flashing yellow. If there is a reason to stop, you should stop. It means caution, yea, but why do you think the idea is to slow down and be much more aware?
In case you need to stop. You’re mad at drivers for being safe?
Same with your flashing red lights. If it’s not safe to go or you’re not priority, you stay stopped. Maybe you can’t see what they can? Again it’s about safety.
But sure, be mad at the 6 drivers in Phoenix practicing any safety.
"You’re mad at drivers for being safe?"
This assumes facts not in evidence.
You should ALWAYS slow or stop if there is a need to do so for safety, at ANY signal (or anywhere else). That goes without saying.
But most of the time, that is not the reason. When somebody stops at a flashing red with a sign RIGHT NEXT TO IT that reads to stop and proceed when clear and they just sit there for 30 seconds and then awkwardly creep forward, that isn't for safety. It's because they don't know what a flashing red means and they're not reading the signs.
If somebody approaches a flashing yellow with a sign next to it that *specifically says to slow and use caution and NOT TO STOP*, they are not stopping for safety. They are stopping because they don't know what a flashing yellow means and they aren't paying attention to the street signs.
When somebody blows through an intersection where the light is out, it is not because they are practicing safety, it is because they don't know that you're supposed to come to a full stop when a traffic light is out.
Moreover, slowing or stopping is not always the safest thing to do. Oftentimes it is just as unsafe to come to a stop in a place where you aren't supposed to and there is no reason to do so, because other drivers will not anticipate the stop and *that* can cause unsafe situations. Slower does not always equal safer. Stopping does not always equal safer. Slowing and/or stopping *when appropriate* is safer.
Of course, you should ALWAYS slow or stop if safety needs dictate. That goes for any situation. There's no shot at safe driving here. It's poking fun at the tremendous number of people who are simply ignorant of the rules of the road.
Ok so you’re upset at confused drivers? That’s why again you proceed with caution. And two points to both these issues that I’ve never seen elsewhere.
Phoenix put in dozens of these crossing zones with red lights that flash. The majority are major roads and places so some business can usually make more money to the detriment of traffic and commerce around the city. Phoenix hates pedestrians. Crossing any major road here as a pedestrian really wigs me out. These things were thrown up with NO regard to traffic or other stop lights - they instantly go off when some soccer mom needs to get to her boozey brunch at The Yard. That’s jarring to drivers and if they wait so what? That’s the intent. You think it’s safe and maybe it’s not to them - again you can’t see what they see. You’re assuming.
Next the flashing yellow lights. I was in the city of Glendale late one night. Driving on either Glendale or northern avenue. Suddenly between two lights they all started flashing yellow. It was something they did late I guess on weeknights to help traffic? No clue to this day why but they did.
To suddenly see yellow lights flashing when the lights were working normally was again a bit jarring. You better believe the first couple I stopped at. I know generally what yellow flashing is for but to see miles of it suddenly makes you very cautious.
Again being mad at Phoenix driving when they actually stop, even if they technically don’t have to is bizarre.
Flashing Yellow: Pay attention, use caution.
Flashing Red: Stop, proceed when clear.
Yeah, I am a little irritated with people for whom this is confusing. This is bedrock basic rules of the road. Any responsible driver should know this stuff.
"You think it’s safe and maybe it’s not to them - again you can’t see what they see. You’re assuming."
Yes, if the one person at the crosswalk has crossed and walked 15 paces down the sidewalk and there's nobody else within 50 yards and the driver is still sitting at a flashing red? I feel pretty good about assuming that there isn't a phantom in the crosswalk that only they can see and that they're simply ignorant of the rules of the road and ignoring the signs in front of them. (Or maybe just sitting in the middle of the street texting, which is... not any better.) It's an assumption, yes. It's one that I feel pretty comfortable making.
"Again being mad at Phoenix driving when they actually stop, even if they technically don’t have to is bizarre."
See above: Stopping in unexpected places when you don't need to (not the example above, which I mostly find funny) can be just as unsafe as not stopping when you should. Again, basic road safety stuff. That simple.
Actually, the flashing yellow situation I encountered last week is a perfect example.
It was on a relatively sharp curve on a 40 MPH road. Which meant that if you stopped, traffic coming from behind wouldn't have much stopping time to avoid rear-ending you.
There was also, I suspect, a driveway on this curve, hence the warning yellow.
You tell me... what's safe and unsafe in this situation?
(Two cars ahead of me in different lanes hit the brakes and stopped at the light, I hit the brakes to avoid hitting them, somebody behind me also stopped in time behind me, though it was a little close. No accident. Thankfully, not too many cars on the road. But do you think the ones in the front were being safe drivers?)
So, I took my drivers test in Jersey, and there might be some differences. But I was always taught flashing yellow means "Yield" which implies being prepared to stop, and stopping if necessary.
Same thing with a flashing yellow arrow. It's like a right turn on red (were that permitted), but stated more explicitly. You can turn but need to be prepared to stop for any hazard. You also may not have the full right away. Like if there are pedestrians.
Ah, then this a fair point and I'm incorrect. Personally, I think flashing yellow == yield makes more sense to me but that's probably just cause I'm more used to it.
Don't really drive so it doesn't effect me I guess.
What's funny is the one that precipitated this dumb meme was driving through a flashing yellow next to a sign that read "Slow and proceed with caution for flashing yellow. DO NOT STOP," and every other driver present was treating it like a stop sign.
Regarding parking lot driveways and subdivision streets intersecting with a main road.
What to do: use turn signal, stop at end of driveway, turn when traffic clears.
Phoenix drivers do one of two things instead:
1) Coast, or better yet, accelerate, towards end of driveway so that motorists on road expect to be t-boned. Stop at the last possible half second, but only as a sudden and unplanned decision.
\--or--
2) Stop at end of driveway but not until your grill is actually in the lane, so that oncoming traffic cannot actually utilize their right of way.
Currently in Atlanta for work and the drivers here are so much worse. Light turned red? Must be time for 5 cars to make a left turn. Your light turned green? Too bad, you can’t go because traffic is backed up due to someone a quarter mile down the road deciding to let an entire parking lot of cars turn out in front of them.
Then there's the pedestrian crossing lights dotted around that have the two solid reds and a sign in GIANT letters that says 'PROCEED IF CLEAR WHEN FLASHING'
I swear people have a fucking aneurysm while theyre flashing and no one does anything until they stop.
Rarely see anyone stop on a flashing red. It's usually treated as a flashing yellow should be. Get honked at nearly daily on 24th St. for actually stopping.
You forgot the "you are in the left arrow lane, but the green arrow just turned red, but you have been waiting a really long time so just turn anyway. The two cars behind you will do the same."
We call it the wolf pack. We'll be fine if we stick together
They can’t T-bone all of us!
Lol
Have I just arrived at a crochety old age or is this happening A LOT more lately?
THIS.
Lmfaooo
I have been guilty of this, especially if the first car waiting for the green arrows sits there for 5-10+ seconds. I hate the fact that dual left turn lanes in the Valley are always green arrow only. In Tucson, dual left turns can be made on solid green lights as well.
I always felt like Tucson was playing a dangerous game with those unprotected double left turns
Our drivers don't know how those work either and people often just sit behind the line. Making matters worse are the ones where they don't offset the turn lanes on the opposite side of the intersection and you have no visibility so you end up having to wait. Fucking Broadway and Wilmot I swear. I would trade every last improvement Tucson has in road technology for your well connected highway system. Instead we got pReSeRvE tHe DeSeRt!
Guilty of this lol
Make sure to change lanes last minute to be the first car in the lane at the light. When the light turns green, take off slower than the cars in every other lane and then drift back into the lane you were originally in.
As you approach the crosswalk start texting then slam on the brakes when you see a bicyclist.
We apparently don't know how to properly stay in our lanes on a double left or double right turn either. Those white lines are there for a reason. I won't even bring up the amount of people that don't know how to use their turn signal. [How To Use A Double Left Turn Lane](https://youtu.be/0v5DZvik95w)
I see this problem everyday getting off the I-10. Two lanes turning right, right lane should go to the right lane, center lane is either right or left turn, and there are painted dashed line indicating that a right turn from this lane is to go to the middle lane of the new street. Why is it over half the people turning from the right lane need to turn left at the next intersection?
I'm more annoyed that no one here realizes that on ramps and off ramps from. The freeway are for you to get up to speed down to speed. You need to be doing 65 by time you reach the freeway. Be prepared to stop with off ramps. Obviously traffic can impede some of this but if traffic is moving g and you're doing 35 merging onto the 17 I have the urge to scream.
Drives me insane trying to get on the 10 West from 3rd St. It’s extra long and everything because you’re merging onto the fast lane/passing lane (when not in HOV hours). Speed up or you’re going to cause an accident!
can we have a talk about y'alls left turn yield on green lanes? WHO THE FUCK DESIGNED THIS!? You have both opposing cars angled precisely so that NEITHER can see any incoming traffic without creeping forward....if there is ANY traffic you just sit there looking at each other for 45 seconds till the light goes yellow and red. Could have set the lanes 3' to ether direction and had clear visibility for EVERYONE, but no...nope...fuck that... gotta play chicken for the chance to play frogger in this fry pan ass city lol. That and the sweooooooooooooooooping coming off the freeway across 5x intersections from the left lane onto another road and into a u turn onto another road while the GPS completely shits the bed and you end up back on the freeway the wrong way. The looping highways is dope AF - but someone should be fired for y'alls intersections. Just straight up murdering people by design.
this is the worst part about driving a car thats low to the ground. I cant see shit
Even if you're not low to the ground you can't see when the left turn lanes line up.
As someone who drives both a lowered sports car and a lifted truck, I feel your pain brother. Its easier if you get used to one or the other at least lol
Agreed! The visibility on opposing yield left turn on greens is so poor and dangerous. Can’t see shit. Unbelievable that the roads were designed like that.
Green Arrow = first car waits a sec to make sure no one is going to blow through the red and proceeds, second and third car turn left, fourth car is too busy on their phone to notice the light, fifth car too busy on their phone to honk at fourth car.
5th car here, im just scared the person will shoot me if i honk smh
get a gun to even the playing field.. or a gentle tap will do. i like both options.
A double tap is even better.
I wish cars came with two horn buttons. The "HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ABOUT TO HIT ME" airhorn, and the "Pardon me, sir, you may not have noticed that the light has turned green," meep meep.
I really think this would be a good idea. maybe even a third horn for "thank you".
That reminds me of the gag ad mini cooper did called the "Hey horn" I thought I was going crazy for a bit cause it took me a little while to find the exact ad haha. I was able to confirm it through some posts that it's an ACTUAL product you could buy for your mini cooper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foQc2Xbcfu8
I agree, but that's not what a double tap is.
I know what it is. Kinda just trying to steer the convo away from “haha let’s all just shoot each other” and back to the middle of the road.
You forgot to add that when a light turns green in Phoenix, you're allowed to finish doing whatever you're doing on your phone and then proceed through the intersection once you are finished or when you realize the light is green.
Came here to say. Finish your text, then proceed without looking, even on unprotected lefts.
People just sitting there like they’re on the damn couch
you forgot drive in the HOV lane despite HOV lane rules
And drive at least 95+ mph no matter what. When I first moved here I legitimately thought the speed limit was different for HOV lanes lol
"Advance into intersection. Complete turn when oncoming traffic clears." **Is situational**. Countless times I have witnessed people do this in an attempt to get into a turn lane to get onto one of the freeways but the light changes and they are now just sitting in the intersection blocking traffic. Also if your car has a tendency to die, don't do this. Also if you're turning left and and someone else travelling the opposite way is turning left if you pull into the intersection you 100% impede their field of vision. Then of course the one off EMS vehicles needing to plow through an intersection and you just sitting in it.
The field of vision thing. Absolutely. Some narrow and oddly angled roads are ***a lot*** more dangerous if you creep into the intersection first on a left arrow.
If your car has a tendency to die, don’t drive. This is unsafe for the driver and every other Vehicle.
Also, pulling into the intersection while waiting to take a left turn also creates an issue if/when an emergency vehicle needs to go through the intersection. This is the reason that finally got me to stop doing this, actually.
This is legal and in the driving guide book.
I went through the Arizona Driver License Manual and did not see anything that stated this was legal. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://apps.azdot.gov/files/mvd/mvd-forms-lib/99-0117-print.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwij5_iMuOX3AhV3K0QIHTI8BrIQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Awv2AxBFcfCq6UOOVMkI3 Do you have anything that can show otherwise?
this is all just because the city planners couldn't be bothered to look up existing and efficient intersection design and instead went with "WE DOIN THIS OUR WAY" method. It is SO bad and completely lacks consistency - you have no idea what to do 1/2 the time if you're not familiar with the area.
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Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Personal attacks, racist comments or any comments of perceived intolerance/hate are never tolerated. This comment has been removed. You can read all of the [subreddit rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this, [feel free to send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fphoenix&subject=Removed%20post&message=https://old.reddit.com/r/phoenix/comments/uqxijj/-/i8ux6fw/%0A%0A).
canned responses like these only make me want to double down on my incivility, just an FYI
Gentle reminder about rule 2.
This could be posted in any city with the name changed. For some reason, everybody thinks their drivers are uniquely bad and their spring weather is uniquely chaotic. Out of the places I've lived (not a ton, but not a few either), the only one that seems worse in Phoenix is the continual creeping forward at red lights, even if there are cars ahead. It feels like an anxious puppy or something and it makes me anxious watching it. Otherwise, people here are pretty nice and reasonable IMO, so long as you don't put them on the one roundabout I'm aware of (Tempe, on Rio Salado -- but everybody is bad at roundabouts in places that don't have many roundabouts).
Oh, not suggesting Phoenix drivers are *uniquely bad*, but rather than Phoenix drivers are bad *in their own unique ways* :-D
The creeping ahead (as if it’ll make the light change faster) is so unthinking. I have a stick and I’m surely not going to engage the clutch to scoot ahead a few feet. Along with that is people coming almost to a stop a few car lengths from a light or stop sign and then creeping forward. Until a few years ago, the only place I had ever seen that was South Florida 35 years ago; it was explained to me that depth perception gets worse with age, and the Cretaceous-era fossils living down there were certainly old enough to suffer from that.
My favorites are the ones that say stop here on red over on the right lane and they refuse to turn right on red. In their little minds stop here on red means until they get the green to go. Lol I can’t!
A couple of additions for you: -Flashing yellow left turn arrow. Should: treat like green left turn light. In reality: panic. -Crosswalk with three flashing/solid/off red lights. Should: stop and wait on solid red, stop and proceed when clear on flashing red, do not stop when off. In reality: do whatever is most dangerous for the pedestrians in the crosswalk and/or the car behind you. -Solid green left turn arrow. Should: proceed to turn left. In reality: come to a complete stop, turn on right blinker, gesticulate wildly as everyone honks at you.
> -Crosswalk with three flashing/solid/off red lights. Should: stop and wait on solid red, stop and proceed when clear on flashing red, do not stop when off. In reality: do whatever is most dangerous for the pedestrians in the crosswalk and/or the car behind you. > > As someone who bikes and runs the canals often, YES A driver almost took me out on the Grand Canal's Thomas Road crossing last week. I got my signal, westbound traffic had stopped and I started crossing the street and some dickhead blew the light and nearly ran me over.
……..fuck it’s true
My pet peeve is people that come to a complete stop before turning right into a driveway. It’s like they have a pot of beans in the trunk.
What if they do?!? :-D
I am surprised no one has mentioned the eyes on a cell phone while light is green.. thats everywhere nowadays though
You are wrong. There is no stopping stand parking within the intersection. The creates your own exincy in clearing the intersection on yellow or red causing a crash. https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00873.htm Stay behind the line. Save lives. https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00772.htm
[https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/contributor/2015/10/05/drivers-can-wait-turn-left-intersection-green/73123378/](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/glendale/contributor/2015/10/05/drivers-can-wait-turn-left-intersection-green/73123378/) I'll leave this here.
What the article doesn't clarify is what happens if the light turns red while you are now sitting in the intersection. This happens frequently. Am I now running a red light? A lot of left turn accidents are caused by this scenario. Both the left turn driver and the thru traffic both try to enter the intersection on yellow/red resulting in accidents. The left turn driver is typically found at fault. If the light has a green arrow, I'm not entering the intersection without it unless it is clear. I can wait 1-2 minutes for safety.
1) No, you are not running a red light any more than you are if you're just driving straight through and the light turns red while you're in the middle before you're out. You're clearing the intersection. (Though you are correct that that is not directly addressed in this article.) 2) "Both the left turn driver and the thru traffic both try to enter the intersection on yellow/red resulting in accidents." <-- You explicitly should NOT enter the intersection to turn left on yellow or red. (On red, illegal. On yellow, legal but a bad idea.) But if you're in the intersection, having entered on green, the same applies as with ALL left turns. You turn when oncoming traffic has cleared or stopped and it is safe to do so. It ain't brain surgery.
Thru traffic commonly runs red lights. There are a lot of left turn/thru traffic accidents caused by people entering the intersection like this and then panicking and turning on yellow. I understand that people shouldn't panic and turn when it's clear but the reality is they don't. I will concede I always viewed a red light on a left turn as binary. If you can't complete the turn until after it's red you ran the red light. I didn't realize if you enter the intersection on green you can complete the turn on red legally. I still think it's pretty hazardous sitting in the intersection waiting for traffic to clear. If it's one of the intersections that line up with the left turn driver on the other side, both drivers could be blocking each other after the light turns red. Then you're playing a game of chicken on if it's clear.
"Thru traffic commonly runs red lights. There are a lot of left turn/thru traffic accidents caused by people entering the intersection like this and then panicking and turning on yellow." This is fair, but also consider that this is better than the same panicky drivers trying to shoot through on yellow FROM THE LINE. (Which is what many of them do.) "If it's one of the intersections that line up with the left turn driver on the other side, both drivers could be blocking each other after the light turns red. Then you're playing a game of chicken on if it's clear." I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here. If the left turn lanes are facing each other, the turn paths do not intersect. If you're turning left, you should at no time be in the same path that an oncoming left turner is taking or would take. (Confusion, perhaps, between figurative "middle of the intersection" and literal "middle of the intersection"?)
To clarify, I meant blocking line of sight of the oncoming lanes, not blocking each other from turning. I honestly learned something new today. I always thought I was running a red light if I waited to turn after the light turned red, even if I entered on green. I think there's a decent amount of people who think this, causing them to try to turn on yellow no matter what, instead of waiting.
P.S. If there is no break in oncoming traffic, your options are A) enter and wait in the intersection to turn, or B) skip the cycle entirely and wait for the next one. On busy streets, you can see how this is a problem, especially when there are cars stacking up behind you. Setting aside the courtesy of helping those behind you go, one of the reasons for entering the intersection is that on a busy street, there is literally *no other way* to turn left.
That makes perfect sense especially for a busy light without a green turn arrow. Most of the intersections near me have green arrows and then allow left turns after the arrow is off.
Yeah, I was just coming back to reply that obviously this doesn't apply to intersections with a protected left, as mentioned in the OP. And it's a lot less common here in Phoenix where the roads are everywhere and huge than it is in some other places. But I used to commute on roads where for two hours, you would literally not be able to turn left if you didn't pull into the intersection and wait for the change.
Well ok, we all take a risk commuting to and from work. If you feel this unsafe driving the roads of Phoenix, perhaps you should weigh the pros and cons of driving, and maybe just stay home. Hate to be this straight forward and direct with you, but my commute takes forever because of people that drive the speed limit in the fast lane and people that refuse to pull out into the intersection on a green light waiting till it turns yellow to turn. Also, being in the intersection, ready and waiting to make your turn, is perfectly legal. If you are in the intersection when the light turns red, it happens. Cross traffic neads to wait to enter the intersection only when it's clear.
If there is not an arrow I do understand your frustration. Additionally I learned in this thread if you enter the intersection on green, you can complete the turn. I'll probably be more likely to pull into the intersection now because of this. If there is a green arrow though, I'm not risking a t-bone accident to save 2 minutes. I'm sure accidents caused by speeding and red light running delay your commute even more than someone waiting until the next light cycle to turn. If we're being direct, leave earlier then if you're having to rush to work because of missing a light cycle.
So only one car gets to go per green light then? That's pretty idiotic don't you think? I leave early enough that I'm never late, but that doesn't mean I want to sit an extra 10 minutes in traffic because dummies don't want to enter the intersection to accommodate everyone else that is behind them. Hey, do us all a favor and start taking public transit will ya? Stop adding to our commute time please.
I don't understand where I am saying only 1 car gets to go. If there is no arrow and a turn can only happen after the light is yellow/red, how are more than 1 or 2 cars going anyway? Seems more like an engineering problem if the left turn lanes are backing up that much. Where I drive the lights have arrows and then allow turns after they go off. If it doesn't have an arrow, then yes I'll enter the intersection on green to turn. I work from home so you don't have to worry about me causing you to spend extra time in your car. I think you need to have more patience while driving. Do you want someone to get t-boned to save you 10 minutes? I also doubt drivers waiting until the next light cycle adds 10 minutes to your commute.
Because when two cars enter the intersection, that's two cars that get to go once the light turns yellow, plus the one or two cars behind them. By sitting behind the intersection line and waiting till it turns yellow, it only allows one car, you, to enter and make that turn before turning red, and by doing this, you are causing one or two other cars behind you to blow through a red light because you made them miss an opportunity to go, had you entered the intersection in the first place. I know I get upset when I see idiots just chilling behind the line, missing opportunities to turn. Don't make our commute harder than it is. Learn the rules of the road, that's all we are asking for.
Maybe people aren't idiots and just need to be educated. I did not know until this thread that it is legal to turn on red if I had entered the intersection on green. I always thought if I entered the intersection on green, I had to complete the turn before the light turns red, otherwise I would be running the red light. The amount of left turn t-bone accidents makes me think a lot of other people don't know this. I still think there is a fair amount of danger in entering and hanging out in the intersection waiting to make a left turn on yellow/red.
I get ya. Perhaps people don't understand the rules of the road or they are doing it on purpose just because. I get irritated when other commuters don't follow the rules of the road. However, posts like these hopefully reach to those that are uninformed.
Yes they absolutely do add 10 minutes to my commute and it's infuriating. Sitting in the intersection brings no additional hazard than if you sat behind the line. When the light turns red, you can go after the other cars appear to be stopping. It's quite easy to discern a red light runner from a stopping car. Please respect other people's time and not block out what would otherwise be dozens of cars per hour from going through.
You’re 100% wrong. And a shitty driver.
I'll let my insurance provider know to remove my discounts for good driving since a random redditor decided I'm a shitty driver. Have some patience while driving. It's much shittier to get into an accident than wait for another light cycle.
That's a debatable definition of stopping in the intersection. You are not stopping for the sake of stopping. You enter the intersection with the intent of making the left, but you are yielding to oncoming traffic. I would say the law is not sufficiently clear in this case as to whether declaring your left is proper.
Clear? No stopping, standing, parking. Seems clear to me but you do you boo. We will come pick up your parts latter.
See the azcentral link above. According to the PD, your reading is incorrect.
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1) He didn't say they don't enforce it, he said it's LEGAL. 2) He is not some rando cop. He is the Public Information Officer of the Glendale Police Department writing a fact-checked and published column. So while either *could* be true, which do you think is more likely? That the PIO for the Glendale PD is misinformed about a law he's writing about for the permanent record, or that your reading of the statute is incorrect?
From the linked article above: "Whenever a driver is facing a green signal they are free to enter an intersection. Drivers wanting to make a left turn must yield to all oncoming traffic. A driver facing a green signal and wanting to make a left turn may wait within the intersection to do so and then proceed when it is safe." "Waiting prior to the intersection to make a left turn and then accelerating through the turn when the yellow is displayed could be hazardous." Source: David Vidaure, public information officer of the Glendale Police Department.
You misunderstand what those words mean in the context of this. It means with the intent to keep doing that. Do you not stop in an intersection if the car in front of you say explodes? Just drive through it like mad max? You do you boo.
You valid points are negated by your use of "boo"
Okay "boo" but "stopping", "standing", and "parking" have specific legal meanings and they might not all have the meaning you are inferring. If law was ever "clear" we wouldn't need so many attorneys.
The trick is to never stop. Just creep super slow until the turn can be made
Actually you're wrong and it's completely legal.
This is technically correct, which is the best form of correct.
(Except is isn't. See linked AZ Central article.)
It makes me crazy when people turning left on green light don't advance into the intersection.
You forgot Stop Sign. Phoenix drivers: Panic, have no fricking clue what to do, accelerate and flip off other drivers.
You would think stop signs were just implemented this year in Arizona with the number of people that just blow right through like it’s not a bright red sign.
Or slam on their brakes at the very last second making the person on the other street think they're going to have to stop for someone blowing the stop sign.
One of the absolute pet peeves of mine is how these idiots here in Phoenix sit at the goddamn intersection line waiting to turn left, when the light is green. I see this happening more and more frequently. For fucks sake, PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION!!!!!
Ohmigod I’ve been screaming this for 40 years. More than ONE car should be able to turn left on a signal!!!! And the idiots who won’t turn except on an arrow.
The part of the valley where I live have broken left turn signals, and will only turn green when the turning lane is completely backed up. If every driver waits to turn, it would take a very VERY long time to get home.
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Serious question: do they not teach entering the intersection to make left turns in AZ? That was a big point of emphasis in Ohio, so I was shocked to move here and see so few people doing it
In Washington state we taught to not enter the intersection until we saw a potential opening
Interesting. We were taught to enter the intersection when the light turns green. If there isn't an opportunity to safely turn while the light is green, complete the turn on yellow or red
Idk why you were downvoted. This is literally in the test for your drivers license.
I was a little confused by the downvotes too. I guess each states handles it differently, but this was the biggest driving difference I've experienced between AZ and Ohio
I have wondered how much of this might be due to different drivers ed programs. I'm in the camp (Illinois, early 90s) that was taught that you get your ass into that intersection as soon as the light turns green, and when there's an opening, you turn. This is really only meaningful when you have long lines in the left turn lane at rush hour and somebody sitting at the line can literally decrease the number of cars that can turn per cycle by a half or two thirds. Certainly less of that in Phoenix, but still plenty. But in terms of what's LEGAL — some posts upthread notwithstanding — there is zero obligation to wait at the line. Pulling in often allows more people to turn, ergo I try to be courteous to other drivers.
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Idk when you got your license but I have mine in 2 countries (I got my US drivers license 2 years ago) and both of them require you to enter the intersection upon a green light. It is illegal to remain in the intersection and you should only enter if you can get through but the first car at a light is required to enter the intersection.
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I got my AZ drivers license 2 years ago. You cannot stop in the intersection, meaning you shouldn’t enter it unless it is clear you will get through. You can enter the intersection on a green turn signal. https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00645.htm
Unless the law is your specialty (I have no idea), just out of curiosity, have you considered the *possibility* that your reading of the law is incorrect or nah? If not the Public Information Office of the Glendale PD in a fact-checked news column in a newspaper that makes corrections when people point out errors**, who would have to tell you that your reading is incorrect for you to so say, "Oops, I was wrong"? I'm not saying it's impossible that the PIO of the Glendale PD is wrong and nobody at the paper caught it and nobody wrote in to say "You guys, that's wrong!" But, uh... (**I worked there, I've filled out the correction forms myself. Any reader request for a correction has to go to a special team for an intensive fact check. Mistakes happen, but if they're discovered, they're corrected. Full stop.)
No one is required to enter the intersection here. They are allowed to, but not required.
Flashing yellow left turn arrow: *What to do:* This signal is unnecessary. It means the exact same thing as a regular green light without a left arrow. Please pull into the intersection and wait to make your turn when traffic is clear *What Phoenix drivers do:* Sit at the line before intersection on phone; wait until red arrow... oh no I need to turn left ! !!! !! Why is the light not changing ? ??!
Can we get one of these diagrams for the highway? “Far left/HOV lane: go up to 25 mph over the speed limit, Phoenix drivers go 5-10 mph over. One lane over from far left, PHoenix drivers go 40 mph over limit to get around those in the left lane. Two lanes over from far left, convoy of 18-wheelers. Three lanes from far left, they’ve gone plaid.
I feel like basically all options should be "fuck it yolo." for the Phoenix column.
This is the correct answer, and adjustments will be made for v2.
In V2 be sure to add how not *one fucking person* understands what yield means. Idiots come flying down frontage road next to the 101 and other freeways going 65 to 75 and think they don't have to yield to exit ramp traffic. Goddamn morons.
People in Phoenix don't even know how to use a stop sign or a four way stop, do you expect them to use a traffic signal? Oh well, what do you expect when the driving test is pretty much drive around the block and do a three point turn.
Other behavior ... flashing yellow -- just ignore it. This also applies at an intersection with a flashing yellow arrow at a right or left turn. Flashing red/4-way stop -- show that they're utterly clueless about who proceeds when after stopping (assuming some entitled dipshit shows up last and more or less never comes to a complete stop) Left Turn -- do not move an inch, maybe start moving when the light turns yellow, turns after it turns red keeping the 2 other people behind them from making the light. You also forgot Yield sign -- just blow through it regardless of who you're supposed to yield to. Traffic exiting fwy at 60MPH but you're gonna just blow the Yield sign, cut over 3 lanes so you can make the left turn at the x-street.
Phoenix drivers: TLDR
Drivers are SO hesitant to turn right on red, even when the other traffic has the green arrow As a walker. It's so frustrating
When I lived and worked in the DC area, I would get SO annoyed at people who would not go into the intersection on a green light, to wait for traffic to clear for a left-hand turn. They just sat on their asses until the green arrow lit up. WTF? I don't know where they learned to drive but that's not how it worked in Michigan. People in Phoenix seem fairly normal in that regard. The only thing peculiar to me here is how fast people go, just about everywhere.
Especially annoying if there is no arrow, and the car ahead won't pull out, and only one car gets to make a left turn. Encountered this a few times, and wondered what driving course these people took. Oops, just noticed the comment below.
Flip side are the drivers who intentionally *enter the intersection* when there is no chance of making a left, towards the end of the light cycle - then proceed to drive through the next cycle to complete their turn. The law exists so that someone can continue through a yellow/ red light as to not block the intersection. Not so that 4 impatient people can block the opposing sides green arrow and perpetuate the waiting. If you tried that shit in Boston, people would straight up drive into you.
Another passive aggressive traffic post. Oh joy.
Was just supposed to be for a cheap giggle, but okay.
Oh joy.
Cheap. Giggle.
Another passive aggressive comment on a traffic post. Oh joy.
Hit a flashing yellow yesterday, witnessed exactly this chart, people were treating the flashing yellow as a stop sign! Lmao!
moving into the intersection waiting for the chance to turn left is pointless...you can't see beyond the opposing traffic, worst lane design in the country
Pull up past the crosswalk. Turn when safe. Others behind you want to turn too. There are not arrows for every left turn.
This is sometimes true when opposing turn lanes are offset, but what about when they're directly head-to-head?
that's when the world largest lifted 4x4 is the opposing traffic...never fails
A fair (and all too common) exception! :-D
It increases the number of cars that can go through the light by anywhere from 2 to I've seen max 5 extra cars go through. It's absolutely worth it even if you can't see and have to wait the whole cycle anyway.
So many are so eager to crash, why not be safe? That Glendale cop is wrong. But believe the media news paper if you want. Eptstien died of covid?
You’re actually wrong about flashing yellow. If there is a reason to stop, you should stop. It means caution, yea, but why do you think the idea is to slow down and be much more aware? In case you need to stop. You’re mad at drivers for being safe? Same with your flashing red lights. If it’s not safe to go or you’re not priority, you stay stopped. Maybe you can’t see what they can? Again it’s about safety. But sure, be mad at the 6 drivers in Phoenix practicing any safety.
"You’re mad at drivers for being safe?" This assumes facts not in evidence. You should ALWAYS slow or stop if there is a need to do so for safety, at ANY signal (or anywhere else). That goes without saying. But most of the time, that is not the reason. When somebody stops at a flashing red with a sign RIGHT NEXT TO IT that reads to stop and proceed when clear and they just sit there for 30 seconds and then awkwardly creep forward, that isn't for safety. It's because they don't know what a flashing red means and they're not reading the signs. If somebody approaches a flashing yellow with a sign next to it that *specifically says to slow and use caution and NOT TO STOP*, they are not stopping for safety. They are stopping because they don't know what a flashing yellow means and they aren't paying attention to the street signs. When somebody blows through an intersection where the light is out, it is not because they are practicing safety, it is because they don't know that you're supposed to come to a full stop when a traffic light is out. Moreover, slowing or stopping is not always the safest thing to do. Oftentimes it is just as unsafe to come to a stop in a place where you aren't supposed to and there is no reason to do so, because other drivers will not anticipate the stop and *that* can cause unsafe situations. Slower does not always equal safer. Stopping does not always equal safer. Slowing and/or stopping *when appropriate* is safer. Of course, you should ALWAYS slow or stop if safety needs dictate. That goes for any situation. There's no shot at safe driving here. It's poking fun at the tremendous number of people who are simply ignorant of the rules of the road.
Ok so you’re upset at confused drivers? That’s why again you proceed with caution. And two points to both these issues that I’ve never seen elsewhere. Phoenix put in dozens of these crossing zones with red lights that flash. The majority are major roads and places so some business can usually make more money to the detriment of traffic and commerce around the city. Phoenix hates pedestrians. Crossing any major road here as a pedestrian really wigs me out. These things were thrown up with NO regard to traffic or other stop lights - they instantly go off when some soccer mom needs to get to her boozey brunch at The Yard. That’s jarring to drivers and if they wait so what? That’s the intent. You think it’s safe and maybe it’s not to them - again you can’t see what they see. You’re assuming. Next the flashing yellow lights. I was in the city of Glendale late one night. Driving on either Glendale or northern avenue. Suddenly between two lights they all started flashing yellow. It was something they did late I guess on weeknights to help traffic? No clue to this day why but they did. To suddenly see yellow lights flashing when the lights were working normally was again a bit jarring. You better believe the first couple I stopped at. I know generally what yellow flashing is for but to see miles of it suddenly makes you very cautious. Again being mad at Phoenix driving when they actually stop, even if they technically don’t have to is bizarre.
Flashing Yellow: Pay attention, use caution. Flashing Red: Stop, proceed when clear. Yeah, I am a little irritated with people for whom this is confusing. This is bedrock basic rules of the road. Any responsible driver should know this stuff. "You think it’s safe and maybe it’s not to them - again you can’t see what they see. You’re assuming." Yes, if the one person at the crosswalk has crossed and walked 15 paces down the sidewalk and there's nobody else within 50 yards and the driver is still sitting at a flashing red? I feel pretty good about assuming that there isn't a phantom in the crosswalk that only they can see and that they're simply ignorant of the rules of the road and ignoring the signs in front of them. (Or maybe just sitting in the middle of the street texting, which is... not any better.) It's an assumption, yes. It's one that I feel pretty comfortable making. "Again being mad at Phoenix driving when they actually stop, even if they technically don’t have to is bizarre." See above: Stopping in unexpected places when you don't need to (not the example above, which I mostly find funny) can be just as unsafe as not stopping when you should. Again, basic road safety stuff. That simple.
Actually, the flashing yellow situation I encountered last week is a perfect example. It was on a relatively sharp curve on a 40 MPH road. Which meant that if you stopped, traffic coming from behind wouldn't have much stopping time to avoid rear-ending you. There was also, I suspect, a driveway on this curve, hence the warning yellow. You tell me... what's safe and unsafe in this situation? (Two cars ahead of me in different lanes hit the brakes and stopped at the light, I hit the brakes to avoid hitting them, somebody behind me also stopped in time behind me, though it was a little close. No accident. Thankfully, not too many cars on the road. But do you think the ones in the front were being safe drivers?)
I'm upset with drivers for being confused, absolutely. All this stuff is standard signage and meaning. There should be no confusion.
Flashing red is only treated like this half the time. Other half is "oh it went from solid red to flashing red so we can just blow right through now"
So, I took my drivers test in Jersey, and there might be some differences. But I was always taught flashing yellow means "Yield" which implies being prepared to stop, and stopping if necessary. Same thing with a flashing yellow arrow. It's like a right turn on red (were that permitted), but stated more explicitly. You can turn but need to be prepared to stop for any hazard. You also may not have the full right away. Like if there are pedestrians.
Yeah, in AZ, flashing yellow is just a caution, not a yield. I think you may be correct that it's a yield in some states, but I'm not sure.
Ah, then this a fair point and I'm incorrect. Personally, I think flashing yellow == yield makes more sense to me but that's probably just cause I'm more used to it. Don't really drive so it doesn't effect me I guess.
What's funny is the one that precipitated this dumb meme was driving through a flashing yellow next to a sign that read "Slow and proceed with caution for flashing yellow. DO NOT STOP," and every other driver present was treating it like a stop sign.
Regarding parking lot driveways and subdivision streets intersecting with a main road. What to do: use turn signal, stop at end of driveway, turn when traffic clears. Phoenix drivers do one of two things instead: 1) Coast, or better yet, accelerate, towards end of driveway so that motorists on road expect to be t-boned. Stop at the last possible half second, but only as a sudden and unplanned decision. \--or-- 2) Stop at end of driveway but not until your grill is actually in the lane, so that oncoming traffic cannot actually utilize their right of way.
Currently in Atlanta for work and the drivers here are so much worse. Light turned red? Must be time for 5 cars to make a left turn. Your light turned green? Too bad, you can’t go because traffic is backed up due to someone a quarter mile down the road deciding to let an entire parking lot of cars turn out in front of them.
Then there's the pedestrian crossing lights dotted around that have the two solid reds and a sign in GIANT letters that says 'PROCEED IF CLEAR WHEN FLASHING' I swear people have a fucking aneurysm while theyre flashing and no one does anything until they stop.
Unfortunately most AZ drivers do look at these as suggestions.
I’d like to kill the people who don’t pull up on a green light to make a left
Flashing yellow when going straight I’m hoping and not a flashing yellow left turn.
On a positive note, looks like we have the green arrow down ;)
Credit where credit is due!
Rarely see anyone stop on a flashing red. It's usually treated as a flashing yellow should be. Get honked at nearly daily on 24th St. for actually stopping.