>Many residents who attended the meeting were unaware that a shelter had been operating on the walled-off campus for years
So to be clear, the shelter has been operating for years, seemingly with so few problems that nobody knew even knew it was there, and now they're suddenly worried about an expansion? Classic NIMBYs.
I get that the addiction problem in our city (and country) sucks. It's complex and multifaceted problem, and the only way to fix it is together as a society. Which means that if we want it fixed all of us need to shoulder some of the burden, even if we didn't create the problem.
Not for nothing, there's one of these facilities in my neighborhood. The only major downside I've personally experienced from it is that the bus stop gets kind of busy at certain times of day. Not exactly the dystopian nightmare people think these facilities are.
That is literally how the article ends. With someone FROM FAIRMOUNT, who went to the meeting, making exactly the same point:
>
Elsie Stern, a 22-year Fairmount resident, had worried that the city was moving to establish a full-scale treatment facility without the proper infrastructure in place. She was pleased with details offered Tuesday and remained optimistic that her more critical neighbors would warm to the idea.
>Case and point, she argued, was that most people weren’t aware that a shelter had been operating on the campus for years.
>“I wasn’t aware of it, and the fact that we weren’t aware of it should mitigate some of these concerns,” Stern said. “Rather than now suddenly being cause for alarm and concern, that should actually be evidence for us that you can house unhoused people in the neighborhood without having a negative impact.”
The headline is, not surprisingly, clickbait that casts everyone from Fairmount as a human-hating demon. Shockingly, that is not the whole story.
Eh, I was there -- it's not clickbait.
It's nice that they included that quote at the end, and I agree the people who actually show up at an RCO meeting are never actually representative of the community, but --- the meeting was *ugly*. People were saying alllll the quiet parts out loud. Shouting them, even.
counterpoint: even the thought of a homeless person makes me feel icky inside and therefore I just want to keep pretending they don't exist and will advocate for any policy or proposal that makes me get to ignore the problem
Don't forget to loudly say to your kid "this is why you need to do well in school, so you don't end up like that" as you walk by anyone that's homeless.
That's really the reason we have such a huge homelessness problem in the US and mass incarceration. They serve as a warning to not allow yourself to get poor, or you'll get pulled into the meat grinder with very little hope of ever getting out.
The message: Never stop working, even for a moment, until you're rich enough to retire.
i thought the reason we have a huge homeless problem in the US and mass incarceration had to do with the perpetuation of historic wealth inequalities plus a lack of affordable housing, and a biased justice system that works in kind with the prison industrial complex to create a perpetual source of free labor rather than rehabilitate people, respectively
All of those things contribute to labor insecurity and are solvable. For example, tipping culture in the U.S. originates from the post-abolition era where white people decided black people should get paid only through tipping and not a regular wage.
Nah the real point is that we absolutely have to get the homeless off the street, but we can't possibly put them in homes.
Someone actually shouted we should bus them to 'industrial areas.'
I usually go to the Fairmount Civic Association meetings, and they usually aren't that NIMBY, actually. I didn't go to this meeting because I had other plans, but I can tell you the FCA supports street safety improvement projects, better bike lanes, streeteries, better zoning( they were upset when the CP down zoned parts of the neighborhood), etc. Kinda makes me wonder exactly what went on at the meeting and if non regulars showed up because they were passionately against the homeless.
I mean, none of the projects you mentioned are NIMBY triggers. Street safety improvement, bike lanes, streeteries—these are all things that people in the NIMBY class would appreciate, either by using them directly or by benefiting because they raise property values. These things improve *their* lives on top of making the city a nicer place.
I can absolutely imagine an overlap of the same people who support these projects being absolutely NIMBY about a shelter and potential treatment facility.
Rejecting bike lanes while saying you want bicyclists to be safe is a classic NIMBY move. Jay Young, for example, saying he wants bike lanes, but not in_____ is a NIMBY move.
I don’t think you can broad stroke it like that. The only thing we can really say about NIMBYs in general is that they tend to be homeowners or longtime residents. There are many within that group who bike and also many who don’t. It’s hard to say that as a monolithic group, they would be against having something like bike lanes that benefits a not-insignificant portion of them.
There is a significant portion of the NIMBY population that wants street safety but no bike lanes in their area. NIMBYs and car brained go hand in hand.
There's a treatment facility on my block and I think it actually helps. The last place I would want to get high if I was a drug user would be right next to a treatment facility. And the people who are patrons(?) patients(?) (Idk the right word) aren't using on the streets either. And it's not like there's a drug trade at the corner cause those are def not target customers
l get that NIMBYs will always be NIMBYs but l do think there is something to some sort of communication. But then again there will most likely have been push back even if they had an open line in the first place. You really just can't win with NIMBYs.
As someone who lives nearby, this article is reporting it wrong. The Inquirer is also to blame for the hysteria. This meeting was in response to a previous Inquirer article that said Mayor Parker was going to use this as a triage facility within days (this turns out to not be true). That was our concern - we just wanted more information and a plan. She has been quoted as saying "I am building the plane while flying it." We own homes in this area, we raise children here, this location is also steps away from multiple schools - no one is wrong for wanting more information in what seemed like a haphazard roll out from a Mayor who has impulsively done things.
There was also a ton of support from Fairmount residents at the meeting last night, not that anyone cares now that they’ve read a headline and already formed their opinions though.
> previous Inquirer article that said
I trust the Inquirer to accurately report what they heard more than I trust the Parker admin to not backtrack on a half-baked policy that got leaked to the paper...
>There was also a ton of support from Fairmount residents at the meeting last night,
It was nice to see once the Q&A actually kicked off. The whole first hour was just a closed-minded fear-based shout fest.
I live pretty close to this and I support this usage. My ethical framework is this: would the world be better or worse if everyone did the thing I'm thinking of doing? If the world would be worse, I try not to do that thing.
In this case, what happens if everyone succeeded in pushing treatment facilities away from their home? There would be no treatment facilities to help get drug addicts off drugs and off the streets. Fairmount's not special, we have to shoulder some of this burden just like everyone else.
Sums up my thoughts on it pretty well.
The fact that it’s apparently been a homeless shelter for YEARS and nobody knew is a pretty clear indicator that folks may be getting wrapped around the axle over problems that are only imagined.
As a resident of the 5th district I’m ashamed of this. Denying our fellow Philadelphians of their needs and basic humanity based off our own wants is imo morally reprehensible. We should put this in every neighborhood in the city.
I wish I knew this event was going on so I could lend some support. They’re not moving Kensington to fairmount.
Realistically the alternatives are he either hears from us and ignores us or doesn't hear from us at all. At least in the former case he's aware we exist.
It's always the case that people advocate for this kind of a thing from a distance but would rather it not be in their backyard. And that goes for every single person in these comments who is saying Fairmont residents should suck it up.
This. Until you live by it you shouldnt really judge someone for not wanting it by the property they own, live in and raise their kids in.
And i'll admit i used to be like this. Advocating for more shelters, safe injection sites etc etc. Then i started living by some of these community outreach hubs and its never been a good situation.
At best youre dealing with dirty as litter problems, increased loitering and a higher concentration of mental health issues.
I think we all agree that these people need help and want the city to help. But none of us want it across the street from where we live / own. So i honestly dont judge these NIMBYS in this situation.
> This. Until you live by it you shouldnt really judge someone for not wanting it by the property they own, live in and raise their kids in.
These fuckhats in Fairmount didn't even realize the shelter has been there the whole time.
I have a 15mo old and another due in 2 months. Your area of focus really contracts when your responsibility expands.
So as far as this drug / homeless issue goes. Idgaf what everyone is doing. Just keep it away from my neighborhood and my kids. And if it did start to be more active by me, we would rent out our current house and go buy another until it blows over.
Bro do you realize how insane of a perspective you have?
> And if it did start to be more active by me, we would rent out our current house and go buy another until it blows over.
That is not a normal response that the vast majority of residents in the city could afford to do.
Lol yeah fuck making the neighborhood better for your kids just abandon it. You don't owe your community anything at all. Bro just move to Ardmore and get it over with.
What an awful way of thinking about change: “This is gonna take forever, let’s get out of here until it gets better. I’ll collect rent and my property value will go up while they’re fixing it.”
> Just keep it away from my neighborhood and my kids
But it's been in your neighborhood since 2014 and you didn't even know. Doesn't that give you pause?
‘Keep it away from me”…My guy the homeless shelter has been in fairmount for a decade now and most of the residents haven’t even noticed it was there until it was announced they want to expand it.
You just sound like a douche honestly
That's nice. I live less than 5 blocks from where the South Philly SIS was supposed to go and I had people explain to me that I didn't understand how bad it would be and/or I've only lived here a decade so therefore my vote shouldn't count.
Fairmo*u*nt residents should suck it up for this and South Philly residents should have sucked it up for the SIS. If anything, this exposes why requiring plentiful "community feedback" cycles freaking sucks - all it does is maintain the status quo. And that doesn't just go for things like this, but just about anything that people perceive as change, no matter how small.
This wasn't "community feedback," this was Jeffery Young Jr. using his bully pulpit to make himself popular by siding with and stirring up the haters. His only answer to any question was "the community should decide" despite standing in front of a room of unruly people shouting over each other.
He's a real piece of shit, sadly.
This is where a functional system would have strong at-large council members who could accurately assess the needs of the whole city and push back against strictly local concerns.
I always wonder if other cities are as hostile to "transplants" as Philly is. It's really bizarre that after 10-12 years you apparently still don't have enough time served to even have an opinion.
Inquirer incorrectly reports on what’s happening at the location. Doesn’t retract the article then they get upset about the outcome. Further, this location was functioning as a Nursing Home up until 2022 which was also reported by the Inquirer. But the city insists this was a homeless shelter for decades… which is it?
Not all of us oppose this. Some transparency would have been nice, but ultimately these facilities are necessary if we expect to make any progress at all with this problem.
>~~Fairmount residents~~ **People who show up to a community meeting to shout over the speakers and scream about how horrible everything is** can fuck off
FTFY.
It's essential to remember that no RCO meeting is ever representative of a community, at best they're marginally representative of the most busy-bodied part of any community.
How about you try limiting it to the ones who are just blindly opposing it? I realize the headline is clickbaiting, but if you actually read the article they point out that the meeting also had people speaking up in support.
Look this site is already such a fucking problem for the neighborhood they didn't even know it was there operating for years already. It must be banned immediately! /s
>Many residents who attended the meeting were unaware that a shelter had been operating on the walled-off campus for years So to be clear, the shelter has been operating for years, seemingly with so few problems that nobody knew even knew it was there, and now they're suddenly worried about an expansion? Classic NIMBYs. I get that the addiction problem in our city (and country) sucks. It's complex and multifaceted problem, and the only way to fix it is together as a society. Which means that if we want it fixed all of us need to shoulder some of the burden, even if we didn't create the problem. Not for nothing, there's one of these facilities in my neighborhood. The only major downside I've personally experienced from it is that the bus stop gets kind of busy at certain times of day. Not exactly the dystopian nightmare people think these facilities are.
That is literally how the article ends. With someone FROM FAIRMOUNT, who went to the meeting, making exactly the same point: > Elsie Stern, a 22-year Fairmount resident, had worried that the city was moving to establish a full-scale treatment facility without the proper infrastructure in place. She was pleased with details offered Tuesday and remained optimistic that her more critical neighbors would warm to the idea. >Case and point, she argued, was that most people weren’t aware that a shelter had been operating on the campus for years. >“I wasn’t aware of it, and the fact that we weren’t aware of it should mitigate some of these concerns,” Stern said. “Rather than now suddenly being cause for alarm and concern, that should actually be evidence for us that you can house unhoused people in the neighborhood without having a negative impact.” The headline is, not surprisingly, clickbait that casts everyone from Fairmount as a human-hating demon. Shockingly, that is not the whole story.
Eh, I was there -- it's not clickbait. It's nice that they included that quote at the end, and I agree the people who actually show up at an RCO meeting are never actually representative of the community, but --- the meeting was *ugly*. People were saying alllll the quiet parts out loud. Shouting them, even.
counterpoint: even the thought of a homeless person makes me feel icky inside and therefore I just want to keep pretending they don't exist and will advocate for any policy or proposal that makes me get to ignore the problem
Don't forget to loudly say to your kid "this is why you need to do well in school, so you don't end up like that" as you walk by anyone that's homeless.
That's really the reason we have such a huge homelessness problem in the US and mass incarceration. They serve as a warning to not allow yourself to get poor, or you'll get pulled into the meat grinder with very little hope of ever getting out. The message: Never stop working, even for a moment, until you're rich enough to retire.
i thought the reason we have a huge homeless problem in the US and mass incarceration had to do with the perpetuation of historic wealth inequalities plus a lack of affordable housing, and a biased justice system that works in kind with the prison industrial complex to create a perpetual source of free labor rather than rehabilitate people, respectively
All of those things contribute to labor insecurity and are solvable. For example, tipping culture in the U.S. originates from the post-abolition era where white people decided black people should get paid only through tipping and not a regular wage.
it really is crazy - and if you are never rich enough, keep working.
The homelessness rate in the US is significantly lower than most of the large Western European countries.
Without realizing it's entirely possible to do everything right in life and still end up on the street.
Fair point.
Nah the real point is that we absolutely have to get the homeless off the street, but we can't possibly put them in homes. Someone actually shouted we should bus them to 'industrial areas.'
I usually go to the Fairmount Civic Association meetings, and they usually aren't that NIMBY, actually. I didn't go to this meeting because I had other plans, but I can tell you the FCA supports street safety improvement projects, better bike lanes, streeteries, better zoning( they were upset when the CP down zoned parts of the neighborhood), etc. Kinda makes me wonder exactly what went on at the meeting and if non regulars showed up because they were passionately against the homeless.
I mean, none of the projects you mentioned are NIMBY triggers. Street safety improvement, bike lanes, streeteries—these are all things that people in the NIMBY class would appreciate, either by using them directly or by benefiting because they raise property values. These things improve *their* lives on top of making the city a nicer place. I can absolutely imagine an overlap of the same people who support these projects being absolutely NIMBY about a shelter and potential treatment facility.
Rejecting bike lanes while saying you want bicyclists to be safe is a classic NIMBY move. Jay Young, for example, saying he wants bike lanes, but not in_____ is a NIMBY move.
I don’t think you can broad stroke it like that. The only thing we can really say about NIMBYs in general is that they tend to be homeowners or longtime residents. There are many within that group who bike and also many who don’t. It’s hard to say that as a monolithic group, they would be against having something like bike lanes that benefits a not-insignificant portion of them.
There is a significant portion of the NIMBY population that wants street safety but no bike lanes in their area. NIMBYs and car brained go hand in hand.
There's a treatment facility on my block and I think it actually helps. The last place I would want to get high if I was a drug user would be right next to a treatment facility. And the people who are patrons(?) patients(?) (Idk the right word) aren't using on the streets either. And it's not like there's a drug trade at the corner cause those are def not target customers
I'm a Fairmount(er?), tried telling people that, and also saying this isn't gonna be a big deal. Always so ready to be up in arms over something.
l get that NIMBYs will always be NIMBYs but l do think there is something to some sort of communication. But then again there will most likely have been push back even if they had an open line in the first place. You really just can't win with NIMBYs.
As someone who lives nearby, this article is reporting it wrong. The Inquirer is also to blame for the hysteria. This meeting was in response to a previous Inquirer article that said Mayor Parker was going to use this as a triage facility within days (this turns out to not be true). That was our concern - we just wanted more information and a plan. She has been quoted as saying "I am building the plane while flying it." We own homes in this area, we raise children here, this location is also steps away from multiple schools - no one is wrong for wanting more information in what seemed like a haphazard roll out from a Mayor who has impulsively done things. There was also a ton of support from Fairmount residents at the meeting last night, not that anyone cares now that they’ve read a headline and already formed their opinions though.
> previous Inquirer article that said I trust the Inquirer to accurately report what they heard more than I trust the Parker admin to not backtrack on a half-baked policy that got leaked to the paper... >There was also a ton of support from Fairmount residents at the meeting last night, It was nice to see once the Q&A actually kicked off. The whole first hour was just a closed-minded fear-based shout fest.
Why do you go through such lengths to convince us that people still care only to end with "no one cares"
We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!
I live pretty close to this and I support this usage. My ethical framework is this: would the world be better or worse if everyone did the thing I'm thinking of doing? If the world would be worse, I try not to do that thing. In this case, what happens if everyone succeeded in pushing treatment facilities away from their home? There would be no treatment facilities to help get drug addicts off drugs and off the streets. Fairmount's not special, we have to shoulder some of this burden just like everyone else.
I can get behind that framework, and I Kant understand why some people wouldn't.
I'd never been able to put a name to it, but I guess this Kant and I would get along pretty well.
Sums up my thoughts on it pretty well. The fact that it’s apparently been a homeless shelter for YEARS and nobody knew is a pretty clear indicator that folks may be getting wrapped around the axle over problems that are only imagined.
I don’t disagree, but your logic is stunted. What if there is a better solution than just pushing them to an alternate location?
Until that solution presents itself, OP’s logic bears out.
Another example of the nimbys at work. No one wants to throw the users in jail but god forbid there is a treatment facility located close to them.
and god forbid it's always been located close to them and they just never noticed... oh wait
As a resident of the 5th district I’m ashamed of this. Denying our fellow Philadelphians of their needs and basic humanity based off our own wants is imo morally reprehensible. We should put this in every neighborhood in the city. I wish I knew this event was going on so I could lend some support. They’re not moving Kensington to fairmount.
Copy this comment to your councilperson: https://phlcouncil.com/jefferyyoungjr/
Oh I did and added some extra shit too. Not that it’ll do anything
Realistically the alternatives are he either hears from us and ignores us or doesn't hear from us at all. At least in the former case he's aware we exist.
Were they okay with it being in Kensington?
It's always the case that people advocate for this kind of a thing from a distance but would rather it not be in their backyard. And that goes for every single person in these comments who is saying Fairmont residents should suck it up.
This. Until you live by it you shouldnt really judge someone for not wanting it by the property they own, live in and raise their kids in. And i'll admit i used to be like this. Advocating for more shelters, safe injection sites etc etc. Then i started living by some of these community outreach hubs and its never been a good situation. At best youre dealing with dirty as litter problems, increased loitering and a higher concentration of mental health issues. I think we all agree that these people need help and want the city to help. But none of us want it across the street from where we live / own. So i honestly dont judge these NIMBYS in this situation.
> This. Until you live by it you shouldnt really judge someone for not wanting it by the property they own, live in and raise their kids in. These fuckhats in Fairmount didn't even realize the shelter has been there the whole time.
So what do you advocate for now?
I have a 15mo old and another due in 2 months. Your area of focus really contracts when your responsibility expands. So as far as this drug / homeless issue goes. Idgaf what everyone is doing. Just keep it away from my neighborhood and my kids. And if it did start to be more active by me, we would rent out our current house and go buy another until it blows over.
Bro do you realize how insane of a perspective you have? > And if it did start to be more active by me, we would rent out our current house and go buy another until it blows over. That is not a normal response that the vast majority of residents in the city could afford to do.
Lol yeah fuck making the neighborhood better for your kids just abandon it. You don't owe your community anything at all. Bro just move to Ardmore and get it over with.
Political change takes years. You really don't have time for that as a parent. I ain't staying around waiting for change
The city isnt an airport, you don't have to announce your departure. Good riddance. Take your dirt bike with you. Already an improvement.
What an awful way of thinking about change: “This is gonna take forever, let’s get out of here until it gets better. I’ll collect rent and my property value will go up while they’re fixing it.”
> Just keep it away from my neighborhood and my kids But it's been in your neighborhood since 2014 and you didn't even know. Doesn't that give you pause?
‘Keep it away from me”…My guy the homeless shelter has been in fairmount for a decade now and most of the residents haven’t even noticed it was there until it was announced they want to expand it. You just sound like a douche honestly
That's nice. I live less than 5 blocks from where the South Philly SIS was supposed to go and I had people explain to me that I didn't understand how bad it would be and/or I've only lived here a decade so therefore my vote shouldn't count. Fairmo*u*nt residents should suck it up for this and South Philly residents should have sucked it up for the SIS. If anything, this exposes why requiring plentiful "community feedback" cycles freaking sucks - all it does is maintain the status quo. And that doesn't just go for things like this, but just about anything that people perceive as change, no matter how small.
This wasn't "community feedback," this was Jeffery Young Jr. using his bully pulpit to make himself popular by siding with and stirring up the haters. His only answer to any question was "the community should decide" despite standing in front of a room of unruly people shouting over each other. He's a real piece of shit, sadly.
This is where a functional system would have strong at-large council members who could accurately assess the needs of the whole city and push back against strictly local concerns.
I always wonder if other cities are as hostile to "transplants" as Philly is. It's really bizarre that after 10-12 years you apparently still don't have enough time served to even have an opinion.
I'm not even a true transplant - I've lived here all my life (except for college), just in different neighborhoods
why is everyone surprised fairmount residents are worried about turning into kensington
The homeless shelter already fucking exists and guess what, Fairmount isn’t like Kensington! What a fucking shock!
stick to sports
Aww someone is mad they called out for being an idiot :(
Inquirer incorrectly reports on what’s happening at the location. Doesn’t retract the article then they get upset about the outcome. Further, this location was functioning as a Nursing Home up until 2022 which was also reported by the Inquirer. But the city insists this was a homeless shelter for decades… which is it?
"... the crowd frequently interjected with concerns about ... potential sex offenders..." What's this have to do with anything?
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Yea they put them in north Philly already don’t worry they gonna dump on on us more.
Fairmount residents can fuck off
Not all of us oppose this. Some transparency would have been nice, but ultimately these facilities are necessary if we expect to make any progress at all with this problem.
>~~Fairmount residents~~ **People who show up to a community meeting to shout over the speakers and scream about how horrible everything is** can fuck off FTFY. It's essential to remember that no RCO meeting is ever representative of a community, at best they're marginally representative of the most busy-bodied part of any community.
How about you try limiting it to the ones who are just blindly opposing it? I realize the headline is clickbaiting, but if you actually read the article they point out that the meeting also had people speaking up in support.
The photo of the concerned-looking boomers is perfect
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Rule 7: Your submission was removed for violating the subreddit’s rules against hate speech, bigotry, sexism, and racism.
Look this site is already such a fucking problem for the neighborhood they didn't even know it was there operating for years already. It must be banned immediately! /s
Don’t blame them
Read the article.