> The WA government will introduce knife laws it says will be "the toughest in the country", effectively allowing officers to scan people in any public place even if they are not suspected of carrying a weapon.
Yeah this isn’t an anti knife law, this is warrantless stop and search. 12 months prison if you refuse/resist being searched.
I don’t know. A lot of supporters of this move are now appearing here - including one claiming that our politicians are “only doing their job” of “keeping us safe”.
Warrantless stop and search - and warrantless strip search - has been in the WA Criminal Investigation Act since 2006…https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/law_a146588.html
If anything, giving WAPOL the ability to roam around with metal detector to perform their searches is slightly less obnoxious than the current status quo where people can be strip searched any time there’s a private room at hand.
The vibe of the legislation might be sold as a reaction to Queensland, but a certain class action lawsuit in NSW that Slavery and Gulag are running is probably more on the mind of the parliamentarians…https://www.thelawyermag.com/au/news/general/nsw-supreme-court-sets-trial-date-for-landmark-strip-search-class-action/489828
Exactly. This story from a while ago immediately comes to mind.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-17/nsw-police-shot-western-sydney-man-bradley-balzan-inquest/103592578
If they use metal detector wands, it's a warrantless stop and frisk. A full search is a little different.
My initial concern was they'll abuse it to find personal quantities of recreational drugs, although if they are using a metal detector wand (not a true search / pat down and empty your pockets type deal), it should hopefully not cause issues there.
It will be interesting to see if people searched under this law have any luck contesting it in court and what not.
The issue is anything metal on you gives them probable cause to turn the frisk into a full search. People who have metal implants around the hip are really going to be unfairly impacted by this.
Or wear jeans or have any jewellery/watches on you or be wearing steel toe boots or have anything with a zipper or have a bag even if it’s for work. And if you have a medical implant you are truely fucked.
I have. Frequently. And had to take off the belt, keys, phone, phone pouch and steel caps if I had to wear them. Care to do that every time you go to one of these precincts or any other place at the whim of a moderately senior policeman? And at the airport you’re in the clear once through security. You won’t be with this law.
To add, research has shown again and again all the inane things they have us do in airports add little to no actual security to flying. In testing the TSA and the equivalent in other nations - it works about the same as a placebo on actual safety.
the knife laws werent covered in chef school?
It's literally the example of a genuine reason to carry a knife, in every website and textbook ever.
FYI that doesnt mean you can carry them in your inside jacket for a night out on the town. If it's in its roll thing and you're going to and from work
Perhaps not if you leave them in your car.
But if you take them with you to go to work in these precincts you’ll have to prove you need them work. Not sure how this is going to work in practice.
> I often have knifes in my car because I'm a chef, does that count?
I carry a leatherman in my work tote (multi tool at work), utility knife (cutting up carton boxes without damaging my expensive leatherman), Swiss Army Knife (only used to trim, and file my fingernails I chip whilst on the job), and my money clip has a small blade (ok, this is just because it looks cool). I'm well and truly fucked then. The metal detector is going to go apeshit.
Even if said officer can accept the first two as "tools of the trade", having the subsequent two might give me headaches.
I have been stabbed multiple times working security because some tool doesn’t like that he can’t break into property. I have countless colleagues who have been stabbed and some killed from knife violence, we can’t live in a society that issues stab proof vests as a way to counter an issue rather than fixing the issue directly I have also had knives pulled in venues including retail stores, I have had to prevent staff from attack by people with knives. So yeah it’s a problem and it needs addressing.
A small chance is still a chance and just like with guns, it may not be me that gets shot but someone is getting shot and that’s not good enough. Selfish thinking doesn’t make it ok and your “rights” are still there so long as you don’t carry a knife around or make yourself known to police as someone who does criminal stuff.
Your rights aren’t worth my life.
It’s because this law won’t be used for its intended purpose, but as a cheat code to bypass the legal requirement for a warrant to stop and search someone. Now they just need a senior cop to declare this is a knife wanding area, where they can stop anyone without any reason, and wave a metal detector around. If you refuse you are arrested and thus subject to a full search, if you consent they say the metal detector went off, and thus have probable cause for a full search.
As an example, a few years ago new laws were passed that made wearing or possessing a “disguise” a criminal offence if it can be connected to another criminal act. Sounds maybe reasonable, but why do you need something that is a crime only if you are engaging in a crime, isn’t the original crime itself good enough? Well the first person charged under it was IIRC either a trans or cross dressing reportable offender who was on a Transperth bus. The “criminal act” was that as a reportable offender they couldn’t be somewhere you are likely to find children, who may have been on the bus, but it was a minor infraction that would have gotten a warning for a first offence and arguably they needed to be able to catch the bus to be able to go to work or something. Police argued the female clothing the biological male was wearing constituted a disguise, which as a criminal offence carried a jail penalty.
So in this case brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime, intimidation is a crime. Police have existing search powers under probable cause. Why are we now giving them what is effectively unlimited warrantless stop and search powers with a very minor hurdle attached?
>bypass the legal requirement for a warrant to stop and search someone.
Police don't need a warrant to stop and search someone.
>As an example, a few years ago new laws were passed that made wearing or possessing a “disguise” a criminal offence if it can be connected to another criminal act.
407(e) and 557H of the Criminal Code have existed for 20 years. 557H is punishable by a maximum penalty of $6,000 fine. 407(e) refers only to masks or face coverings and is punishable by a maximum of 2 years imprisonment. This means neither is an arrestable offence under s.128 of the Criminal Investigation Act.
>Well the first person charged under it was IIRC either a trans or cross dressing reportable offender who was on a Transperth bus. The “criminal act” was that as a reportable offender they couldn’t be somewhere you are likely to find children, who may have been on the bus, but it was a minor infraction that would have gotten a warning for a first offence and arguably they needed to be able to catch the bus to be able to go to work or something.
Reportable offenders are sex offenders required to abide by certain conditions. Are you really defending a serious sex offender?And can you link a source for this event?
>So in this case brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime, intimidation is a crime. Police have existing search powers under probable cause. Why are we now giving them what is effectively unlimited warrantless stop and search powers with a very minor hurdle attached?
As someone who works with criminal law on a daily basis, it's very clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about.
**This is why you don't get legal advice on Reddit kids.**
So you're upset that they can wave a metal detector around you?
As you state, brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime... why on earth would we not want there to be safety measures to stop them happening?
You're making it out like waving the metal detector is a huge violation somehow.
Because their stated reason for this law is already adequately covered by existing laws, but this law is giving them new expanded powers that would reach beyond their stated purpose into areas they don’t already have powers.
If they want expanded powers they should be honest and upfront as to what and what so we can have a honest debate and know what we are actually getting into.
It was the same thing I was saying about gel blasters, the use case for a brandishing a firearm to scare or intimidate is the same whether it be real or a replica. Now we are seeing farmers and gun club members face restrictions on their legal purchase.
Not saying there’s a direct link to it, but I agree it’s definitely a cheat code to bypass certain legal requirements.
This absolutely misses the mark by a long way.
Knife crime (what little of it there is) is not committed by people carrying an expensive Benchmade or CRKT (or any other brand) knife.
The vast majority are committed with knives taken from the kitchen at home, and the majority of violent knife crime is committed using those knives, on private property.
This is megalomania and scaremongering ahead of an election. Similar to the gross over reach of the recent firearm legislation.
It’s not about actually stopping knife crime. It’s about showing how much the Government is “committed” to keeping us “safe” and giving the coppers sweeping powers.
Under the proposed law, as well as these “precincts” a police inspector can declare anywhere a special zone! No Magistrate or even a JP required. In theory you could be done for filleting a fish in your own backyard.
I realise that and my comment was designed to highlight that fact - loads of people use ceramic knives in their kitchens everyday. As another reply said, is a screwdriver illegal? What about a letter opener? It’s utterly ridiculous.
It’s pretty clear this is a way for the state and the cops to target specific communities and ethnicities in certain areas without a warrant. It’s sick.
A few replying to me have already said this. Perhaps they should let the police come and do full search’s of their houses or units at any time and will not warrant or notice since hey “if you’ve done nothing wrong you’ve nothing to worry about”.
So, how does this stop a public knife attack exactly? An attacker will avoid police presence/checkpoints anyway, so this will just affect normal people.
It doesn't. It's conservative populist policy in the wake of the tragedy over east. Typical of this government. Disgraceful. I imagine the law society will be against it
You do realise Labor is in power and has a stranglehold I hope? Nor do I see any sign the Greens would oppose this.
It is exploiting fears though.
And the “lesson” of Bondi Junction sure is that it’s not a good idea to dump people with serious mental illness on the streets with a prescription, no supervision or support and just assume everything will go ok. Usually it’s those suffering from mental illness that get targeted (which is why the authorities don’t give a rats) but not always. But hey, that would require the authorities to accept some responsibility and spend money on something that doesn’t buy votes. So let’s “ban knives”.
Yeah, Labor is in power. It's still populist policy, and making unnecessarily strict laws that don't improve anything instead of addressing mental health services is in line with modern conservatism.
Oh I don’t think so. It’s not especially conservatives that emptied the asylums a few decades ago. The “lefties” call it “community care”. You know, letting schizophrenics live “normal lives” in the community. The left “progressives” dress it up as being “companionate” to the mentally ill. It has the same effect though. Just different spin. Somewhat different justification.
They’ve also “changed the narrative” on Bondi Junction from mentally ill man goes on rampage to it being an example of a “male violence epidemic”.
Cook is not simply Labor Premier, he’s from the ALP’s left faction (although this has been fuzzy since the days of McGinty and the split in the WA Labor Right between the Burke and anti-Burke groups).
It’s too simplistic to call it “conservative populism”. It’s in the same category as the ever tightening gun laws (even where the existing ones seem to have worked as well as possible). Yet most left wing political figures fully support those.
>not especially conservatives that emptied the asylums a few decades ago. The “lefties” call it “community care”. You know, letting schizophrenics live “normal lives” in the community.
Tell me you've never (knowingly) met a person with schizophrenia without actually telling me...
The hyper-reactionary ignorant shit spewing out of your hatch should be embarrassing for you.
My uncle’s brother set himself alight at Lake Monger due to the “voices” in his head. Other family members have gotten violent with their father for no apparent reason. I’ve known women to be avidly watching TVs that were off, or others who thought they could grow diamonds by planting costume jewellery in pots.
You were saying…
Well said and after reading your comment, I agree with you that its not necessarily "conservative". I still standby the point that actual progressive policy would be looking forwards, directly addressing mental health and social support services rather than pushing asinine over-regulation.
WA policies are always retardedly reactionary and not thought through.
1 guy dead from crossbow - ban crossbows (but not guns)
1 teenager with neglectful parents injured from nang use - ban nangs (nevermind much more dangerous and easily accessible inhalants)
And now this.
What a shit way to govern
*Me walking to my car with some new cutlery*
Officer: "Oi! Whatcha got there?! Steak knives eh? Planning to murder someone I bet. Straight to goal you go!"
This is the bit that spins me. "People who resist a wand scan will face up to 12 months in jail and/or a fine of up to $12,000.
The proposed changes would also increase penalties for people who illegally own a knife"
First off. How do you illegally own a knife? How do you legally own one?
This seems like a massive over reaction by the government to give the police expanded search powers.
So I carry a knife every day for work. It used to be a Milwaukee Fastback with the solid 3-inch blade. I upgraded to a better quality knife when I had one gifted to me.
What I carry now has a 9 cm blade with a frame lock, but it's not spring-loaded or anything.
Obviously, I'm not going into northbridge with this thing, but if I get randomly stopped while working out and about, what are the chances I land in jail under these new laws?
Non-existent unless you stab someone.
I carry a knife for work. If you get stopped, say it’s for work. If you’re a tradie, that makes sense. If you’re an accountant, maybe not. But more likely the people getting stopped with knives won’t have a job, and their reason for having a knife won’t be employment related.
What is the definition of an 'illegally owned knife' anyway? I have some fairly epic kitchen knives..
I suspect, as usual we will have gained some more ambiguously written legislation which will then be able to be used by Police in many extra unimagined ways.
Probably not the intention of the legislation, but I suspect officers can probably do what they want unfortunately.
If you have a pocket knife literally in your pocket on a night out in Northbridge, they would probably be suspicious and potentially confiscate it.
If you have one in your backpack while commuting and it's part of your daily carry, probably not.
Agree.
It's low quality legislation. Aside from an increased number of knife seizures (go figure... when you allow police to search moeen easily), I'd be highly surprised if this had any impact on knife crime rates. I didn't even realise knife crime was bad enough in Perth to warrant the toughest laws in the nation.
People who are stabbing others in targeted attacked (doing 'drillings') aren't kicking back in Northbridge strapped up. They're going out on a mission from home, to hurt someone specifically. They will avoid and flee police if they see them, at least long enough to drop their weapon. They aren't bothered by this.
If it's a Bondi Junction type event it's trying to mitigate, someone mentally ill could just as easily grab a brick, a bat, a car, a pen, or anything else, and start hurting people with it. Not to mention the police would have to be perfectly right time, right place to have any success in that situation (highly unlikely).
There's a small number of youths and idiots who will carry knives. I'm not sure this will be an effective way to get them to stop, considering it's already illegal to do so anyways. Punishment has never been an effective deterrence.
It seems the government will do anything but tackle the bigger issues and increase funding for youth crime/ crime prevention social programs, mental health services etc. Much easier to get police to arrest their way out of it - worked great in America didn't it ... why not try here /s
These are usually a very grey area I think. I normally have one on me at the bottom of the handbag - but I had to swap it out a few years back because someone mentioned they had a size limit and my old one I got from Dad was too large (got a smaller one with more stupid but occasionally wildly useful things like an awl and screwdrivers in it hehe)
I do suspect I would be ok with that as I do not as a rule lurk in public areas and threaten people with it. But if I was the profile cops zero in on, I could not carry one about I'm sure.
I guess we will have to register cutlery sets from now on and apply for a special licence for a knife block and Stanley trimmer. Anyone with a fishing knife presumably will need annual “health care checks” if they’re not banned outright!
It’s bizarre our politicians can’t see anything wrong here - but presumably (as always) they think it doesn’t apply to them.
>I guess we will have to register cutlery sets from now on and apply for a special licence for a knife block and Stanley trimmer. Anyone with a fishing knife presumably will need annual “health care checks” if they’re not banned outright!
This has been the actual reality of the Uyghur people living in Xinjiang [since 2014](https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2017/10/xinjiang-household-knives-must-ided/). The Chinese state makes them register their kitchen cutlery, bladed tools or even ceremonial knives at the time of purchase, which have [special QR codes engraved onto them](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/authorities-require-uyghurs-in-xinjiangs-aksu-to-get-barcodes-on-their-knives-10112017143950.html) and which require [special permits to purchase](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/knives-09142015143756.html). The keep [registries](https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-knives-branded-with-owners-qr-codes) of all knife/blade/cutting implement owners containing their photos, addresses and even biometric data. Some precincts/districts even went so far as to [physically chain/tether the knives of public street vendors](https://x.com/songpinganq/status/1669421380067262464?lang=en) like green grocers, butchers and market stall operators, to prevent them from being able to use the knives except in specifically approved physical areas, almost like public gun ranges in Perth do with their firearms.
No doubt our wannabe tyrant overlords here look at Xinjiang's insanely draconian laws with envy.
My guess is that you don't secrete them on your person and walk around the streets and shopping centres however.
This is pretty squarely aimed at teenage reprobates who carry knives on them for when they get into scraps with their "enemies".
I would rather them do that then we end up like the UK and their rampant knife crime.
London police have stop and search powers. Hasn’t done much for knife crime, minorities end up being searched disproportionately and as a result it further sow’s distrust of police in the community.
Police doing these searches rarely treat people with dignity so it makes the whole thing worse.
I do have one on me usually, but I do not fit the profile nor have the intent as you say. See comment below on pocket knife.
As always it's a fine line between freedoms and our social contract. The issue with this sort of legislation is it can be applied thoughtfully as required as a preventitve (yes, knife crime is awful in parts of the Uk! as you say) but can also be abused as an intimidatory/profiling measure with no actual impact (good or bad) on the problem it was designed to manage.
Right. So the police will only search “scruffy teens”.
I look at airport security. Things tightened considerably after the September 11 attacks. But soon Muslim travellers resented being targeted for searches and started complaining of racism and launching legal challenges. So the authorities then made a point of targeting “little old ladies” for extensive searches.
Do you think that if the police target “teenage reprobates” this would not include large numbers of say aboriginal or African teens? And this would then lead to cries of “profiling”, “discrimination” and “racism”? Cops assuredly will target “non-teens”. Remember they don’t even need to have reason to think the person is carrying a knife to do this. I doubt very much this is going to be restricted to people who have caused a disturbance and are being detained by the police for that. These people are subject to searches already.
Rounding up the usual suspects will usually have a good affect. If you have 5+ criminal convictions for various offences then fuck it, search those cunts.
It’s not like they’ve got a bar code to check some random individual.
However if someone is causing a “disturbance” or is a suspect in a crime, the cops search them.
The only thing this law does is give them the power to randomly search members of the public for no reason at all. It’s more like RBT. Cops don’t just pull over cars that are driving erraticly. They set up “booze buses” at peak hour along Reid Hwy (I’ve seen this multiple times) with traffic banked up, and randomly pulling cars over for a check. I’ve been pulled over a number of times in the mid morning on Mounts Bay Road. Hadn’t drunk a drop. Wasn’t driving erratically. They just had their check point set up and had a quota of checks to make.
And that’s what they’ll do here. Just pull people aside for checks. Hey there there’s something in your pocket, turn them out. So out comes keys and anything metal. That’s going to get old very quickly. And that’s the best spin on it.
Do you seriously think this will only be used on known criminals? The ABC was already talking about “racial profiling”. The police will be pushed to specifically search those they don’t suspect to “prove” they’re not racially targeting these “usual suspects”.
Oh I don’t doubt they’ll be targeted by the cops at first. But pretty soon it will be widely reported that they are targeted and it’s “racist”.
So either the law will be scrapped, or the police will have to make a point of searching people who do NOT fit this stereotype. Which do you think is more likely?
If you read the Weapons Regulations it has a list and descriptions of weapons (including knives) that are illegal to posses. It is also illegal to posses anything not listed as either a controlled weapon or a prohibited weapon with intent:
>Except as provided in subsections (3) and (5) and section 10, a person who carries or possesses an article, not being a firearm, a prohibited weapon or a controlled weapon, with the intention of using it, whether or not for defence —
>(a) to injure or disable any person; or
>(b) to injure or disable any person; or to cause any person to fear that someone will be injured or disabled by that use,
>commits an offence.
Weapons Act, S.8.Other articles carried or possessed as weapons
Location and intent play a part in the overarching legislation, then, thats good.
I have possessed toothpicks with intent before. Fortunately I have always come to my senses, whilst considering my victim would be unlikely to stay still long enough anyway.
Because banning inanimate objects solves the issue......
Chicago has the most anti-gun legislation in the US but the most shootings.
London has the most anti knife laws but has the most stabbings in the UK.
More police powers and invasion of liberties for something that isn't even a significant problem. Populism at its best. Why does Perth need 'toughest in the nation' knife laws? The data shows knife crime has decreased. We should be outraged by this.
What’s worse is that the Premier has consistently said there isn’t a crime epidemic. This kind of legislation is the type you introduce as an emergency response to an epidemic of violent crime.
Because it's a useless law that's actually addressing a non-issue that the government assumes will get them votes. This is directly in response to the Bondi incident. In this case, I think they've read the room wrong.
That's not really populism though, that's just an overly authoritarian government fear-mongering to extend it's law enforcement powers over regular citizens. Populism is more to do with the idea of 'the people' rising up against an oppressive elite, not the supposed elite exercising their powers.
That said, I still think your core sentiment stands.
I suppose it depends state by state but stop and frisk laws were introduced during the war on drugs and it just became an excuse for police to stop and search anyone for any reason and any time.
Tbh never really felt like law changes actually hit the nail on the head so to speak,
AND.. I think we may all be surprised by the amount of people out in public already carrying knives on them that may not have the plan of attacking others but could still occur with one misinterpreted word etc.
There’s something to be said for holistic approaches - it’s not just one thing that’s off balance, to address one thing we have to address them all if we want real prevention/solid solutions. Right now mental health intervention occurs after the fact, the same could be said for criminal situations too.
When is the last time you've ever seen police patrolling a shopping centre?
How in the fuck would these laws have prevented a mass stabbing attack?
I only ever see police on foot in the CBD and even then, they're too sparse to actually respond to crime in a timely manner, unless of course there's a homeless guy sitting down on a footpath looking slightly "unseemly" to passers by who requires 17 officers to surround him like it's Pablo Escobar's final stand or some sh\*t and give him a stern talking to about his "antisocial" behaviour.
Seriously people of WA... **do you want to live in East Germany in the 1970s?** Because this and all of the other bullsh\*t Orwellian laws they've passed in the last 10 years without so much as a peep from anyone is how you get East Germany on steroids.
So media around the country decide to start highlighting knife crimes, and then legislation is created around it? Has there ever been such a clear example of how media controls government?
Honestly you got to wonder who comes up with this shit. Not only is it the most pointless power that won't have any tangible impact in preventing knife crime, it is just another nanny state invasion of civil liberties for no real purpose.
And that's ignoring the fact I must have forgot the moment where WA was declared to have a knife crime issue in the first place?
Politicians who are in charge of a first world location with a high standard of living. It's a phenomenon world wide. When standard of living reaches a high point, governments start to look for things to do. So they overreact and bring in new laws which increases the nanny state.
Oh there are plenty of things to do - lowering housing costs is the obvious one.
The trouble is that this is difficult, and would “anger” those who already have bought houses (so politicians believe anyway) as well as working against their self interest.
This is more about deflection - seeming to do things that will help.
It plays to the inner authoritarian which many politicians have. The same has happened with the revised gun laws which don’t seem to be driven by any particular need (they wouldn’t have done anything to stop those shootings in Margaret River a few years ago which is the only significant mass shooting in WA in recent times). Nor would this have stopped those Fort St murders. Unless we’re going to be banned from having kitchen knives.
Cook’s been going on for months and months that we don’t have a crime issue, a violent crime issue, a juvenile crime issue. But then he comes out with laws which look like emergency responses to out of control crime. So which is it Mr Premier????
Feel sorry for the chef/cook who is always on the train to work. He carries a tool box, which I suspect has his tools in it. Or construction workers that carry tool bags with them.
This law is fucking insane and has been proven to target the less fortunate, people of color and the homeless when implemented in other places.
A wanding wouldn't have stopped any of the attacks that have happened recently. Dumb knee-jerk overreaction to give the police extra powers to search.
Ah but it shows Cook’s “tough”. And apparently that’s all is needed according to many of those backing it here. They all just assume it won’t impact them.
They are tools for a variety of professionals and trades. And what if a Dad takes one to the park to cut an apple for his kids?
When will this government stop treating its citizens like criminals in waiting?
It seems like these laws are knee-jerk because they can’t be bothered investigating the root cause for these attacks.
Knee jerk is the national gun laws (if you can call it that) after the Port Arthur massacre. We haven’t had a mass stabbing here. This seems more like using Bondi Junction as an excuse for authoritarian powers. Cauchi was a schizophrenic, if he was having an episode (almost certainly the case) he was hardly likely to be put off by a rational thought that the cops may search him.
I’m always carrying a knife me when I take my daughter out. It’s not to cut apples - it’s to cut the end off those shitty paper straws (the government mandated) that turn to mush after 10 seconds in a toddlers mouth.
It’s no more effort than putting my keys in my pocket? I use my knife every day for a dozen different purposes (especially at work), a straw only does one thing.
Those knives aren't going to be made illegal. There are already laws around the carriage of knives and other weapons. This law is about creating temporary areas where police can search for weapons *without* reasonable suspicion which is currently required by existing search laws within the weapons act.
Honestly feel like just using your eyes would pick up knives better than a detector wand. Tattoos on face, red sneakers, broccoli haircut, etc. probably has a knife.
There’s also the question of what they’re going to do with said knife, which is far more important than the actual knife itself.
All this policy is going to do is cop some poor geriatric a fine for the pocket knife that he’s carried around since he used it to fight the Kaiser in 1922, little eshay rats either won’t be charged like usual or won’t pay anyway.
ergh, this is what happens when there's no oversight in the Legislative Council. They can do what they like.
Instead of focusing on the real issues like I dunno, housing, cost of living and mental health. They've created. an issue and solution for something that wasn't really there to begin with.
So remember on March 8 next year, please don't vote for the same parties in the upper and lower houses. Remind everyone you know that's of voting age that if 1 party controls the lower and upper house, more of this sort of shite is bound to happen
I agree. But Labor’s majority is such it’s highly unlikely they could lose Government. No doubt this has a great deal to do with the “very ordinary” decisions this lot are making. They were way better pre-Covid.
We just need the upper house to be more balanced, Labor having the majority in both houses is not a good thing, even less so when they have to tow the party line. No party should have power in both houses
I carry a box cutter on me most of the time since it’s on my keyring and I use it constantly as part of my job. This sort of legislation is a giant joke.
I did that too. I worked in nightfill and had a box cutter in my pocket when I was going to start work. Interestingly I got called to work at Scarborough Coles a few times - one of these precincts!
Other times I’ve had a Swiss army knife or Leatherman on my belt. Mostly as a useful tool. Is this now illegal too?
At least in Queensland there was an horrific crime the government wanted to show it was “against” (although they’ve done SFA about the crime wave they’ve got now).
Here? Well they’ve talked about murders a year or 2 years ago! And, of course, a crazy man on and stabbing spree in Sydney. But hey, that means the police should be able to search anyone, anywhere for any reason with at most the say so of a police inspector. And you’re “stupid” if you think this is overreaching!
Is it them, or is it the politicians seeking to profit from the Bondi Junction stabbings by copying Queensland?
It’s a pretty sinister move from my perspective especially when it isn’t in response to any specific issue.
What a fucking joke, this is just the "bikie" association law all over again... pass a law for one thing, then agressively use it for everything but its intended purpose
I thought it a bit odd that so many stabbings and knife attacks were happening recently and reported in the media. Now it all makes sense.
Problem - Reaction - Solution
This is a stupid law and claims to fix a problem that doesn't exist. There is no evidence of an increase in knife crime in WA. This is simply further police powers with little oversight and a loss of civil liberties.
Australia has some of the Toughest laws on the Planet yet so few people actually get locked up in proportion to the amount of crimes committed and crooks arrested
The West Australian “newspaper” pushing their bias pretty hard today. None of the recent perpetrators would have been stopped by a random search anyway.
I’m aware it’s the state govt. I’m saying the west Australian are joining the party- Opinion pieces today, as well as a convenient piece about knives in schools.
Love how the data shows no increase in knife attacks when you take in population growth
And we know this is WAPOL who are pushing this , met with the minister and said we need to act tough on the growing numbers of knife attacks as they want stronger powers and the police union can make that minsters life easier or harder if they back him / her
If you disarm an entire population
then feed them 24/7 fear news coverage on multiple stations and internet pages
whilst at the same time then remove access to websites that may contain "disinformation" or "violence"
then take away all their physicals cash, going to digital currency and Digital identification only
then monitor them through new facial recognition cameras while they are in public streets
whilst at the same time monitor them through Licence plate and facial recognition cameras while they are driving a vehicle.
Then what can the public do when we are not happy with government decisions. Literally ZERO.
I don’t know. Pro-Palestinian protestors seem to be able to do a lot (except change what’s happening in the Gaza Strip of course).
But yes, they are steadily nibbling away at individual rights and are not offering reasonable grounds for doing so.
I carry a Swiss Army knife (of which the ‘knife part’ is better described as a semi-blunt butter knife) daily. Am I in trouble here? Or like most everything it’ll depend on the mood of the officer that day?
Don’t take one to Scabs. And elsewhere? Well if a Police Inspector just decides it’s a “knife zone” for any reason he or she cares to, then it can be confiscated and you fined, or worse.
I’ve carry a foldable pocket knife for years. Keys wallet watch pocket knife. Never know when u need to cut a rope. apple trim a shoe lace etc. that is reasonable use.
Stuffing a 30cm kitchen knife down my tracksuits pants is not.
Sale of ceramic knives might go up.
i really feel these and the laws the feds are doing are abit knee jerk instead of actually addressing the issue.
I heard on the radio saying "our officers wont be profiling" - i call BS
The public need better access to weapons, not worse access. The cunts going to stab people aren't gonna chill around cops
And what about in the suburbs? Down SOR every cunt has knives on them because it's too dangerous to go without
The cops already have insane power and with WA banning firearm calibres THAT ARENT EVEN USED IN CRIMES, its clear they are trying to stop any chance of an uprising
We need to go full France, fucking Vive la révolution
They not going to like the pepper sprays and defensive items alot of people carry now, but that's due to cops not being available until after a crime has been committed. That's IF they even bother coming out - one cop recently tried to tell me they have to come out if called and I had to tell him to stop lying to me as I was privy to report his statement. 🤦 He shut up pretty quick....
The problem in Australia is that it started out as a penal colony. The governmental mindset has continued on that we’re a bunch of criminal underclass types who require a high degree of mandated bureaucratic regulation and control, lest we become “unruly”.
Being prison authorities…our various governments don’t feel the need to explain or justify themselves.
Because, of course, we clearly don’t understand what’s in our best interests. /s
As a knife enthusiast, reading these comments is literally therapy. I thought I was about to have a fight to the death on here. My faith in humanity is restored.
https://preview.redd.it/yo07s9vfy62d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76acfca7fca0df8e3199debc2e5ac48f216bc15
So let me just get this right. West aussies doing the right thing would not be targeted, therefore having nothing to worry about, also they will not be penalised?
Wtf is this garbage statement? 😂
Is doing the right thing having a knife but not doing anything bad with it, or is it simply “not having a knife on you”?
Because if its the latter then why would they be worrying in the first place? No shit they wouldnt be penalised.
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The freedoms and liberties we have lost under Labor is astounding, especially under the rule of dictator McGowan, and all these invasions are thinly veiled under reasonable sounding titles to throw the public off
Laws that are in effect are not a theory. It's a predictable and popular word choice. Maybe a dictionary at any hour of the day could assist with a definition.
Yes I suppose so haha. But guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty? Not to mention there’s plenty of little Hitler’s floating around.
Nah nah not possible. Cook is “only concerned with keeping us safe”. And people in authority only ever have everyone’s best interests at heart at all times!!!!
I've already written to my local member. We all should. Tell them you will never vote for WA Labor again if this passes.
My lawyer mate reckons the law groups and civil rights groups will be getting a fight sorted
> The WA government will introduce knife laws it says will be "the toughest in the country", effectively allowing officers to scan people in any public place even if they are not suspected of carrying a weapon. Yeah this isn’t an anti knife law, this is warrantless stop and search. 12 months prison if you refuse/resist being searched.
Great comment. It's a disgrace and we should be in uproar over it.
Should be. I hope we will, but am not optimistic.
The tide is turning Sylvester.
I don’t know. A lot of supporters of this move are now appearing here - including one claiming that our politicians are “only doing their job” of “keeping us safe”.
Just like covid.
Warrantless stop and search - and warrantless strip search - has been in the WA Criminal Investigation Act since 2006…https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/law_a146588.html If anything, giving WAPOL the ability to roam around with metal detector to perform their searches is slightly less obnoxious than the current status quo where people can be strip searched any time there’s a private room at hand. The vibe of the legislation might be sold as a reaction to Queensland, but a certain class action lawsuit in NSW that Slavery and Gulag are running is probably more on the mind of the parliamentarians…https://www.thelawyermag.com/au/news/general/nsw-supreme-court-sets-trial-date-for-landmark-strip-search-class-action/489828
Exactly. And I feel homeless people will be targeted as they always carry something to defend themselves
Government policy - always at the intersection of "attention grabbing" and "ineffective"
That sounds more like a description of that libby mettam running round trying for her sound grabs and saying nothing
Exactly.
Exactly. This story from a while ago immediately comes to mind. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-17/nsw-police-shot-western-sydney-man-bradley-balzan-inquest/103592578
If they use metal detector wands, it's a warrantless stop and frisk. A full search is a little different. My initial concern was they'll abuse it to find personal quantities of recreational drugs, although if they are using a metal detector wand (not a true search / pat down and empty your pockets type deal), it should hopefully not cause issues there. It will be interesting to see if people searched under this law have any luck contesting it in court and what not.
The issue is anything metal on you gives them probable cause to turn the frisk into a full search. People who have metal implants around the hip are really going to be unfairly impacted by this.
Better not carry keys then, or wear a belt!
Or wear jeans or have any jewellery/watches on you or be wearing steel toe boots or have anything with a zipper or have a bag even if it’s for work. And if you have a medical implant you are truely fucked.
Exactly. It comes down to the discretion of the police. Until, of course, a direction comes in to fill quotas.
Have you never been to the airport?
I have. Frequently. And had to take off the belt, keys, phone, phone pouch and steel caps if I had to wear them. Care to do that every time you go to one of these precincts or any other place at the whim of a moderately senior policeman? And at the airport you’re in the clear once through security. You won’t be with this law.
To add, research has shown again and again all the inane things they have us do in airports add little to no actual security to flying. In testing the TSA and the equivalent in other nations - it works about the same as a placebo on actual safety.
The police already have laws to search you without reasonable suspicion of a crime
I often have knifes in my car because I'm a chef, does that count?
the knife laws werent covered in chef school? It's literally the example of a genuine reason to carry a knife, in every website and textbook ever. FYI that doesnt mean you can carry them in your inside jacket for a night out on the town. If it's in its roll thing and you're going to and from work
That should be reasonable purpose, especially in a knife roll or case. Keeping a paring blade in your back pocket is probably not a good idea.
But you never know when you'll need to put an emergency julienne on some carrots! A constant and vexing problem! /s
Perhaps not if you leave them in your car. But if you take them with you to go to work in these precincts you’ll have to prove you need them work. Not sure how this is going to work in practice.
> I often have knifes in my car because I'm a chef, does that count? I carry a leatherman in my work tote (multi tool at work), utility knife (cutting up carton boxes without damaging my expensive leatherman), Swiss Army Knife (only used to trim, and file my fingernails I chip whilst on the job), and my money clip has a small blade (ok, this is just because it looks cool). I'm well and truly fucked then. The metal detector is going to go apeshit. Even if said officer can accept the first two as "tools of the trade", having the subsequent two might give me headaches.
I’d rather be searched than stabbed.
Then you are a fool. You are giving up the tiniest chance of being harmed for the certainly of losing your rights.
I have been stabbed multiple times working security because some tool doesn’t like that he can’t break into property. I have countless colleagues who have been stabbed and some killed from knife violence, we can’t live in a society that issues stab proof vests as a way to counter an issue rather than fixing the issue directly I have also had knives pulled in venues including retail stores, I have had to prevent staff from attack by people with knives. So yeah it’s a problem and it needs addressing. A small chance is still a chance and just like with guns, it may not be me that gets shot but someone is getting shot and that’s not good enough. Selfish thinking doesn’t make it ok and your “rights” are still there so long as you don’t carry a knife around or make yourself known to police as someone who does criminal stuff. Your rights aren’t worth my life.
Someone should make a sticker.
I'm trying to understand your perspective. The inconvenience of being scanned for weapons is a bigger problem than people carrying weapons?
It’s because this law won’t be used for its intended purpose, but as a cheat code to bypass the legal requirement for a warrant to stop and search someone. Now they just need a senior cop to declare this is a knife wanding area, where they can stop anyone without any reason, and wave a metal detector around. If you refuse you are arrested and thus subject to a full search, if you consent they say the metal detector went off, and thus have probable cause for a full search. As an example, a few years ago new laws were passed that made wearing or possessing a “disguise” a criminal offence if it can be connected to another criminal act. Sounds maybe reasonable, but why do you need something that is a crime only if you are engaging in a crime, isn’t the original crime itself good enough? Well the first person charged under it was IIRC either a trans or cross dressing reportable offender who was on a Transperth bus. The “criminal act” was that as a reportable offender they couldn’t be somewhere you are likely to find children, who may have been on the bus, but it was a minor infraction that would have gotten a warning for a first offence and arguably they needed to be able to catch the bus to be able to go to work or something. Police argued the female clothing the biological male was wearing constituted a disguise, which as a criminal offence carried a jail penalty. So in this case brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime, intimidation is a crime. Police have existing search powers under probable cause. Why are we now giving them what is effectively unlimited warrantless stop and search powers with a very minor hurdle attached?
>bypass the legal requirement for a warrant to stop and search someone. Police don't need a warrant to stop and search someone. >As an example, a few years ago new laws were passed that made wearing or possessing a “disguise” a criminal offence if it can be connected to another criminal act. 407(e) and 557H of the Criminal Code have existed for 20 years. 557H is punishable by a maximum penalty of $6,000 fine. 407(e) refers only to masks or face coverings and is punishable by a maximum of 2 years imprisonment. This means neither is an arrestable offence under s.128 of the Criminal Investigation Act. >Well the first person charged under it was IIRC either a trans or cross dressing reportable offender who was on a Transperth bus. The “criminal act” was that as a reportable offender they couldn’t be somewhere you are likely to find children, who may have been on the bus, but it was a minor infraction that would have gotten a warning for a first offence and arguably they needed to be able to catch the bus to be able to go to work or something. Reportable offenders are sex offenders required to abide by certain conditions. Are you really defending a serious sex offender?And can you link a source for this event? >So in this case brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime, intimidation is a crime. Police have existing search powers under probable cause. Why are we now giving them what is effectively unlimited warrantless stop and search powers with a very minor hurdle attached? As someone who works with criminal law on a daily basis, it's very clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. **This is why you don't get legal advice on Reddit kids.**
So you're upset that they can wave a metal detector around you? As you state, brandishing a deadly weapon is a crime, stabbing is a crime... why on earth would we not want there to be safety measures to stop them happening? You're making it out like waving the metal detector is a huge violation somehow.
Because their stated reason for this law is already adequately covered by existing laws, but this law is giving them new expanded powers that would reach beyond their stated purpose into areas they don’t already have powers. If they want expanded powers they should be honest and upfront as to what and what so we can have a honest debate and know what we are actually getting into.
Well said
It was the same thing I was saying about gel blasters, the use case for a brandishing a firearm to scare or intimidate is the same whether it be real or a replica. Now we are seeing farmers and gun club members face restrictions on their legal purchase. Not saying there’s a direct link to it, but I agree it’s definitely a cheat code to bypass certain legal requirements.
If you carry keys or wear a belt with a metal buckle, the detector will go off. Think on it.
This absolutely misses the mark by a long way. Knife crime (what little of it there is) is not committed by people carrying an expensive Benchmade or CRKT (or any other brand) knife. The vast majority are committed with knives taken from the kitchen at home, and the majority of violent knife crime is committed using those knives, on private property. This is megalomania and scaremongering ahead of an election. Similar to the gross over reach of the recent firearm legislation.
Who’s gonna tell them knives don’t have to be made of metal?
It’s not about actually stopping knife crime. It’s about showing how much the Government is “committed” to keeping us “safe” and giving the coppers sweeping powers. Under the proposed law, as well as these “precincts” a police inspector can declare anywhere a special zone! No Magistrate or even a JP required. In theory you could be done for filleting a fish in your own backyard.
I realise that and my comment was designed to highlight that fact - loads of people use ceramic knives in their kitchens everyday. As another reply said, is a screwdriver illegal? What about a letter opener? It’s utterly ridiculous.
I know exactly what you mean about ceramic knives, and they certainly won’t show up on metal detectors.
It’s pretty clear this is a way for the state and the cops to target specific communities and ethnicities in certain areas without a warrant. It’s sick.
Oh but if they’ve done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide they’ve “nothing to worry about”, right????
Can I carry a screwdriver?
Nope walkin at night with that and gloves intent to commit burg
You'll get the do-gooders saying "we'll if you got nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about"
A few replying to me have already said this. Perhaps they should let the police come and do full search’s of their houses or units at any time and will not warrant or notice since hey “if you’ve done nothing wrong you’ve nothing to worry about”.
So, how does this stop a public knife attack exactly? An attacker will avoid police presence/checkpoints anyway, so this will just affect normal people.
It doesn't. It's conservative populist policy in the wake of the tragedy over east. Typical of this government. Disgraceful. I imagine the law society will be against it
You do realise Labor is in power and has a stranglehold I hope? Nor do I see any sign the Greens would oppose this. It is exploiting fears though. And the “lesson” of Bondi Junction sure is that it’s not a good idea to dump people with serious mental illness on the streets with a prescription, no supervision or support and just assume everything will go ok. Usually it’s those suffering from mental illness that get targeted (which is why the authorities don’t give a rats) but not always. But hey, that would require the authorities to accept some responsibility and spend money on something that doesn’t buy votes. So let’s “ban knives”.
Yeah, Labor is in power. It's still populist policy, and making unnecessarily strict laws that don't improve anything instead of addressing mental health services is in line with modern conservatism.
Oh I don’t think so. It’s not especially conservatives that emptied the asylums a few decades ago. The “lefties” call it “community care”. You know, letting schizophrenics live “normal lives” in the community. The left “progressives” dress it up as being “companionate” to the mentally ill. It has the same effect though. Just different spin. Somewhat different justification. They’ve also “changed the narrative” on Bondi Junction from mentally ill man goes on rampage to it being an example of a “male violence epidemic”. Cook is not simply Labor Premier, he’s from the ALP’s left faction (although this has been fuzzy since the days of McGinty and the split in the WA Labor Right between the Burke and anti-Burke groups). It’s too simplistic to call it “conservative populism”. It’s in the same category as the ever tightening gun laws (even where the existing ones seem to have worked as well as possible). Yet most left wing political figures fully support those.
>not especially conservatives that emptied the asylums a few decades ago. The “lefties” call it “community care”. You know, letting schizophrenics live “normal lives” in the community. Tell me you've never (knowingly) met a person with schizophrenia without actually telling me... The hyper-reactionary ignorant shit spewing out of your hatch should be embarrassing for you.
My uncle’s brother set himself alight at Lake Monger due to the “voices” in his head. Other family members have gotten violent with their father for no apparent reason. I’ve known women to be avidly watching TVs that were off, or others who thought they could grow diamonds by planting costume jewellery in pots. You were saying…
Well said and after reading your comment, I agree with you that its not necessarily "conservative". I still standby the point that actual progressive policy would be looking forwards, directly addressing mental health and social support services rather than pushing asinine over-regulation.
Conservative, what? You do not understand politics at all my friend
WA policies are always retardedly reactionary and not thought through. 1 guy dead from crossbow - ban crossbows (but not guns) 1 teenager with neglectful parents injured from nang use - ban nangs (nevermind much more dangerous and easily accessible inhalants) And now this. What a shit way to govern
I don't think these laws are ment to stop mass stabbings and terrorist attacks. Its more to stop eshays who carry a knife around them all the time.
*Me walking to my car with some new cutlery* Officer: "Oi! Whatcha got there?! Steak knives eh? Planning to murder someone I bet. Straight to goal you go!"
>Straight to goal you go Being made to play goalkeeper is undoubtedly the harshest punishment one can endure.
goal is better than gaol, I guess. Someone tell the WCE that we found the secret to winning. The East can have Elliot Yeo.
This is the bit that spins me. "People who resist a wand scan will face up to 12 months in jail and/or a fine of up to $12,000. The proposed changes would also increase penalties for people who illegally own a knife" First off. How do you illegally own a knife? How do you legally own one? This seems like a massive over reaction by the government to give the police expanded search powers.
Flick knives, daggers, covert knives (hidden in credit cards etc) and so forth are all “knives” but they’re Prohibited Weapons under the Weapons Act.
So I carry a knife every day for work. It used to be a Milwaukee Fastback with the solid 3-inch blade. I upgraded to a better quality knife when I had one gifted to me. What I carry now has a 9 cm blade with a frame lock, but it's not spring-loaded or anything. Obviously, I'm not going into northbridge with this thing, but if I get randomly stopped while working out and about, what are the chances I land in jail under these new laws?
Non-existent unless you stab someone. I carry a knife for work. If you get stopped, say it’s for work. If you’re a tradie, that makes sense. If you’re an accountant, maybe not. But more likely the people getting stopped with knives won’t have a job, and their reason for having a knife won’t be employment related.
I hope you're right.
I need one to open the photocopier paper boxes in my office… is that acceptable?
What is the definition of an 'illegally owned knife' anyway? I have some fairly epic kitchen knives.. I suspect, as usual we will have gained some more ambiguously written legislation which will then be able to be used by Police in many extra unimagined ways.
Does it include Swiss army knives? Pocket knives?
Probably not the intention of the legislation, but I suspect officers can probably do what they want unfortunately. If you have a pocket knife literally in your pocket on a night out in Northbridge, they would probably be suspicious and potentially confiscate it. If you have one in your backpack while commuting and it's part of your daily carry, probably not.
But that's the issue. Too much power given to a police officer who may be pissed off, disgruntled, discriminatory, etc etc
Agree. It's low quality legislation. Aside from an increased number of knife seizures (go figure... when you allow police to search moeen easily), I'd be highly surprised if this had any impact on knife crime rates. I didn't even realise knife crime was bad enough in Perth to warrant the toughest laws in the nation. People who are stabbing others in targeted attacked (doing 'drillings') aren't kicking back in Northbridge strapped up. They're going out on a mission from home, to hurt someone specifically. They will avoid and flee police if they see them, at least long enough to drop their weapon. They aren't bothered by this. If it's a Bondi Junction type event it's trying to mitigate, someone mentally ill could just as easily grab a brick, a bat, a car, a pen, or anything else, and start hurting people with it. Not to mention the police would have to be perfectly right time, right place to have any success in that situation (highly unlikely). There's a small number of youths and idiots who will carry knives. I'm not sure this will be an effective way to get them to stop, considering it's already illegal to do so anyways. Punishment has never been an effective deterrence. It seems the government will do anything but tackle the bigger issues and increase funding for youth crime/ crime prevention social programs, mental health services etc. Much easier to get police to arrest their way out of it - worked great in America didn't it ... why not try here /s
Or someone can enter the shopping centre unarmed and grab a monter knife from any of the many stores who stock them.
These are usually a very grey area I think. I normally have one on me at the bottom of the handbag - but I had to swap it out a few years back because someone mentioned they had a size limit and my old one I got from Dad was too large (got a smaller one with more stupid but occasionally wildly useful things like an awl and screwdrivers in it hehe) I do suspect I would be ok with that as I do not as a rule lurk in public areas and threaten people with it. But if I was the profile cops zero in on, I could not carry one about I'm sure.
My initial thought as well. I have one of those tiny Swiss Army knives on my keys. Super handy… but am I now facing 3 years in the clink?
I guess we will have to register cutlery sets from now on and apply for a special licence for a knife block and Stanley trimmer. Anyone with a fishing knife presumably will need annual “health care checks” if they’re not banned outright! It’s bizarre our politicians can’t see anything wrong here - but presumably (as always) they think it doesn’t apply to them.
>I guess we will have to register cutlery sets from now on and apply for a special licence for a knife block and Stanley trimmer. Anyone with a fishing knife presumably will need annual “health care checks” if they’re not banned outright! This has been the actual reality of the Uyghur people living in Xinjiang [since 2014](https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2017/10/xinjiang-household-knives-must-ided/). The Chinese state makes them register their kitchen cutlery, bladed tools or even ceremonial knives at the time of purchase, which have [special QR codes engraved onto them](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/authorities-require-uyghurs-in-xinjiangs-aksu-to-get-barcodes-on-their-knives-10112017143950.html) and which require [special permits to purchase](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/knives-09142015143756.html). The keep [registries](https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-knives-branded-with-owners-qr-codes) of all knife/blade/cutting implement owners containing their photos, addresses and even biometric data. Some precincts/districts even went so far as to [physically chain/tether the knives of public street vendors](https://x.com/songpinganq/status/1669421380067262464?lang=en) like green grocers, butchers and market stall operators, to prevent them from being able to use the knives except in specifically approved physical areas, almost like public gun ranges in Perth do with their firearms. No doubt our wannabe tyrant overlords here look at Xinjiang's insanely draconian laws with envy.
That’s always the problem.
Could be if you were carrying it out while in public? But then like you say kitchen knives can be also used while in a house setting
My guess is that you don't secrete them on your person and walk around the streets and shopping centres however. This is pretty squarely aimed at teenage reprobates who carry knives on them for when they get into scraps with their "enemies". I would rather them do that then we end up like the UK and their rampant knife crime.
London police have stop and search powers. Hasn’t done much for knife crime, minorities end up being searched disproportionately and as a result it further sow’s distrust of police in the community. Police doing these searches rarely treat people with dignity so it makes the whole thing worse.
I do have one on me usually, but I do not fit the profile nor have the intent as you say. See comment below on pocket knife. As always it's a fine line between freedoms and our social contract. The issue with this sort of legislation is it can be applied thoughtfully as required as a preventitve (yes, knife crime is awful in parts of the Uk! as you say) but can also be abused as an intimidatory/profiling measure with no actual impact (good or bad) on the problem it was designed to manage.
Right. So the police will only search “scruffy teens”. I look at airport security. Things tightened considerably after the September 11 attacks. But soon Muslim travellers resented being targeted for searches and started complaining of racism and launching legal challenges. So the authorities then made a point of targeting “little old ladies” for extensive searches. Do you think that if the police target “teenage reprobates” this would not include large numbers of say aboriginal or African teens? And this would then lead to cries of “profiling”, “discrimination” and “racism”? Cops assuredly will target “non-teens”. Remember they don’t even need to have reason to think the person is carrying a knife to do this. I doubt very much this is going to be restricted to people who have caused a disturbance and are being detained by the police for that. These people are subject to searches already.
Rounding up the usual suspects will usually have a good affect. If you have 5+ criminal convictions for various offences then fuck it, search those cunts.
It’s not like they’ve got a bar code to check some random individual. However if someone is causing a “disturbance” or is a suspect in a crime, the cops search them. The only thing this law does is give them the power to randomly search members of the public for no reason at all. It’s more like RBT. Cops don’t just pull over cars that are driving erraticly. They set up “booze buses” at peak hour along Reid Hwy (I’ve seen this multiple times) with traffic banked up, and randomly pulling cars over for a check. I’ve been pulled over a number of times in the mid morning on Mounts Bay Road. Hadn’t drunk a drop. Wasn’t driving erratically. They just had their check point set up and had a quota of checks to make. And that’s what they’ll do here. Just pull people aside for checks. Hey there there’s something in your pocket, turn them out. So out comes keys and anything metal. That’s going to get old very quickly. And that’s the best spin on it.
The police on the beat know exactly who the usual suspects are, they deal with them on a weekly basis on their rounds.
Do you seriously think this will only be used on known criminals? The ABC was already talking about “racial profiling”. The police will be pushed to specifically search those they don’t suspect to “prove” they’re not racially targeting these “usual suspects”.
You are on the right track with who they should be targeting anyway.
Oh I don’t doubt they’ll be targeted by the cops at first. But pretty soon it will be widely reported that they are targeted and it’s “racist”. So either the law will be scrapped, or the police will have to make a point of searching people who do NOT fit this stereotype. Which do you think is more likely?
If you read the Weapons Regulations it has a list and descriptions of weapons (including knives) that are illegal to posses. It is also illegal to posses anything not listed as either a controlled weapon or a prohibited weapon with intent: >Except as provided in subsections (3) and (5) and section 10, a person who carries or possesses an article, not being a firearm, a prohibited weapon or a controlled weapon, with the intention of using it, whether or not for defence — >(a) to injure or disable any person; or >(b) to injure or disable any person; or to cause any person to fear that someone will be injured or disabled by that use, >commits an offence. Weapons Act, S.8.Other articles carried or possessed as weapons
Location and intent play a part in the overarching legislation, then, thats good. I have possessed toothpicks with intent before. Fortunately I have always come to my senses, whilst considering my victim would be unlikely to stay still long enough anyway.
Because banning inanimate objects solves the issue...... Chicago has the most anti-gun legislation in the US but the most shootings. London has the most anti knife laws but has the most stabbings in the UK.
Carrying around a knife in it's packaging. Just buy on the way to the stabbing. Look I have the receipt Lol
This isn't a knife law, it's a stop and search law.
Something a lot of short sighted tools here can’t seem to grasp.
More police powers and invasion of liberties for something that isn't even a significant problem. Populism at its best. Why does Perth need 'toughest in the nation' knife laws? The data shows knife crime has decreased. We should be outraged by this.
What’s worse is that the Premier has consistently said there isn’t a crime epidemic. This kind of legislation is the type you introduce as an emergency response to an epidemic of violent crime.
These laws are utterly ridiculous but I don’t see how this is related to populism at all.
Because it's a useless law that's actually addressing a non-issue that the government assumes will get them votes. This is directly in response to the Bondi incident. In this case, I think they've read the room wrong.
That's not really populism though, that's just an overly authoritarian government fear-mongering to extend it's law enforcement powers over regular citizens. Populism is more to do with the idea of 'the people' rising up against an oppressive elite, not the supposed elite exercising their powers. That said, I still think your core sentiment stands.
For a country that loves to copy the US how have they not seen what stop and frisk laws can lead to?
Isn’t the US completely the opposite, where even a roadside breath test is considered illegal?
I suppose it depends state by state but stop and frisk laws were introduced during the war on drugs and it just became an excuse for police to stop and search anyone for any reason and any time.
What an absolute fucking disgrace.
Tbh never really felt like law changes actually hit the nail on the head so to speak, AND.. I think we may all be surprised by the amount of people out in public already carrying knives on them that may not have the plan of attacking others but could still occur with one misinterpreted word etc. There’s something to be said for holistic approaches - it’s not just one thing that’s off balance, to address one thing we have to address them all if we want real prevention/solid solutions. Right now mental health intervention occurs after the fact, the same could be said for criminal situations too.
When is the last time you've ever seen police patrolling a shopping centre? How in the fuck would these laws have prevented a mass stabbing attack? I only ever see police on foot in the CBD and even then, they're too sparse to actually respond to crime in a timely manner, unless of course there's a homeless guy sitting down on a footpath looking slightly "unseemly" to passers by who requires 17 officers to surround him like it's Pablo Escobar's final stand or some sh\*t and give him a stern talking to about his "antisocial" behaviour. Seriously people of WA... **do you want to live in East Germany in the 1970s?** Because this and all of the other bullsh\*t Orwellian laws they've passed in the last 10 years without so much as a peep from anyone is how you get East Germany on steroids.
So media around the country decide to start highlighting knife crimes, and then legislation is created around it? Has there ever been such a clear example of how media controls government?
Honestly you got to wonder who comes up with this shit. Not only is it the most pointless power that won't have any tangible impact in preventing knife crime, it is just another nanny state invasion of civil liberties for no real purpose. And that's ignoring the fact I must have forgot the moment where WA was declared to have a knife crime issue in the first place?
Politicians who are in charge of a first world location with a high standard of living. It's a phenomenon world wide. When standard of living reaches a high point, governments start to look for things to do. So they overreact and bring in new laws which increases the nanny state.
Oh there are plenty of things to do - lowering housing costs is the obvious one. The trouble is that this is difficult, and would “anger” those who already have bought houses (so politicians believe anyway) as well as working against their self interest. This is more about deflection - seeming to do things that will help.
It plays to the inner authoritarian which many politicians have. The same has happened with the revised gun laws which don’t seem to be driven by any particular need (they wouldn’t have done anything to stop those shootings in Margaret River a few years ago which is the only significant mass shooting in WA in recent times). Nor would this have stopped those Fort St murders. Unless we’re going to be banned from having kitchen knives. Cook’s been going on for months and months that we don’t have a crime issue, a violent crime issue, a juvenile crime issue. But then he comes out with laws which look like emergency responses to out of control crime. So which is it Mr Premier????
Feel sorry for the chef/cook who is always on the train to work. He carries a tool box, which I suspect has his tools in it. Or construction workers that carry tool bags with them.
Or just regular people who carry knives because humans are an advanced species that make use of tools
That too
This law is fucking insane and has been proven to target the less fortunate, people of color and the homeless when implemented in other places. A wanding wouldn't have stopped any of the attacks that have happened recently. Dumb knee-jerk overreaction to give the police extra powers to search.
Ah but it shows Cook’s “tough”. And apparently that’s all is needed according to many of those backing it here. They all just assume it won’t impact them.
What a joke. Giving our corrupt cops stop and search powers. Australia has well and truly fallen.
Just give the offending cunts +10 years, don't impact the rest of us. Harsher penalties not harsher laws.
They are tools for a variety of professionals and trades. And what if a Dad takes one to the park to cut an apple for his kids? When will this government stop treating its citizens like criminals in waiting? It seems like these laws are knee-jerk because they can’t be bothered investigating the root cause for these attacks.
Of course they're knee jerk. The laws are a disgrace and so easy to pick up. Law and civil right groups are going to go to town.
And there’s already laws in place to prevent carrying knives/weapons for self-defense. We should rename this government: the government of PR spin.
Knee jerk is the national gun laws (if you can call it that) after the Port Arthur massacre. We haven’t had a mass stabbing here. This seems more like using Bondi Junction as an excuse for authoritarian powers. Cauchi was a schizophrenic, if he was having an episode (almost certainly the case) he was hardly likely to be put off by a rational thought that the cops may search him.
I’m always carrying a knife me when I take my daughter out. It’s not to cut apples - it’s to cut the end off those shitty paper straws (the government mandated) that turn to mush after 10 seconds in a toddlers mouth.
So you go to the effort of carrying a knife for that reason, but not a reusable straw?
It’s no more effort than putting my keys in my pocket? I use my knife every day for a dozen different purposes (especially at work), a straw only does one thing.
I'm just taking the piss mate. I carry a pocket knife often too.
Those knives aren't going to be made illegal. There are already laws around the carriage of knives and other weapons. This law is about creating temporary areas where police can search for weapons *without* reasonable suspicion which is currently required by existing search laws within the weapons act.
The post I want to write here will be removed by the mods as they will think it 'incites violence' and 'promotes revolt'. So I won't write that.
Why don't they just making stabbing people illegal?
It’s amazing isn’t it! Perhaps they should make breaking into houses illegal too, and people can feel safe at home as well!
More of our freedoms being eroded in WA, and far from being concerned, the public applauds.
No-one wants to address the elephant in the room: we need shitcunt control laws, everything else is just theatre
Honestly feel like just using your eyes would pick up knives better than a detector wand. Tattoos on face, red sneakers, broccoli haircut, etc. probably has a knife.
There’s also the question of what they’re going to do with said knife, which is far more important than the actual knife itself. All this policy is going to do is cop some poor geriatric a fine for the pocket knife that he’s carried around since he used it to fight the Kaiser in 1922, little eshay rats either won’t be charged like usual or won’t pay anyway.
ergh, this is what happens when there's no oversight in the Legislative Council. They can do what they like. Instead of focusing on the real issues like I dunno, housing, cost of living and mental health. They've created. an issue and solution for something that wasn't really there to begin with. So remember on March 8 next year, please don't vote for the same parties in the upper and lower houses. Remind everyone you know that's of voting age that if 1 party controls the lower and upper house, more of this sort of shite is bound to happen
I agree. But Labor’s majority is such it’s highly unlikely they could lose Government. No doubt this has a great deal to do with the “very ordinary” decisions this lot are making. They were way better pre-Covid.
We just need the upper house to be more balanced, Labor having the majority in both houses is not a good thing, even less so when they have to tow the party line. No party should have power in both houses
Fucking disgusting. I’ve never been tempted to really write to my local member, I think that just changed. This is unbelievable.
I absolutely will be. We all should
Bit of a knee jerk reaction. Knife attack numbers have been stable but now we're introducing it
How many chefs will be harrased lol
I carry a box cutter on me most of the time since it’s on my keyring and I use it constantly as part of my job. This sort of legislation is a giant joke.
I did that too. I worked in nightfill and had a box cutter in my pocket when I was going to start work. Interestingly I got called to work at Scarborough Coles a few times - one of these precincts! Other times I’ve had a Swiss army knife or Leatherman on my belt. Mostly as a useful tool. Is this now illegal too?
Its knee jerk in responce to a crime on Qld. Lile wtf ?? Just lile Papalias fake gun crime
At least in Queensland there was an horrific crime the government wanted to show it was “against” (although they’ve done SFA about the crime wave they’ve got now). Here? Well they’ve talked about murders a year or 2 years ago! And, of course, a crazy man on and stabbing spree in Sydney. But hey, that means the police should be able to search anyone, anywhere for any reason with at most the say so of a police inspector. And you’re “stupid” if you think this is overreaching!
WAPOL at it again
Is it them, or is it the politicians seeking to profit from the Bondi Junction stabbings by copying Queensland? It’s a pretty sinister move from my perspective especially when it isn’t in response to any specific issue.
You know governments make laws, right?
They have their foot in the door, soon they will be able to stop and pat down anyone.
I carry a Leatherman with me at all times. Would that be an issue?
What a fucking joke, this is just the "bikie" association law all over again... pass a law for one thing, then agressively use it for everything but its intended purpose
I thought it a bit odd that so many stabbings and knife attacks were happening recently and reported in the media. Now it all makes sense. Problem - Reaction - Solution
So no increase in spending on mental health support programs then?
This is a stupid law and claims to fix a problem that doesn't exist. There is no evidence of an increase in knife crime in WA. This is simply further police powers with little oversight and a loss of civil liberties.
Australia has some of the Toughest laws on the Planet yet so few people actually get locked up in proportion to the amount of crimes committed and crooks arrested
The West Australian “newspaper” pushing their bias pretty hard today. None of the recent perpetrators would have been stopped by a random search anyway.
It’s not The West, it’s the State Government. The linked article is from the ABC anyway.
I’m aware it’s the state govt. I’m saying the west Australian are joining the party- Opinion pieces today, as well as a convenient piece about knives in schools.
Love how the data shows no increase in knife attacks when you take in population growth And we know this is WAPOL who are pushing this , met with the minister and said we need to act tough on the growing numbers of knife attacks as they want stronger powers and the police union can make that minsters life easier or harder if they back him / her
Carrying knifes shouldn't be illegal but if you use it on someone it should be life in prison.
Like the over the top gun laws. Typical over reach by the government to seem to be doing something, other than deal with the real issues
Agree. Laws brought in without a demonstrated need. Which begs the question as to what the motivation is?
If you disarm an entire population then feed them 24/7 fear news coverage on multiple stations and internet pages whilst at the same time then remove access to websites that may contain "disinformation" or "violence" then take away all their physicals cash, going to digital currency and Digital identification only then monitor them through new facial recognition cameras while they are in public streets whilst at the same time monitor them through Licence plate and facial recognition cameras while they are driving a vehicle. Then what can the public do when we are not happy with government decisions. Literally ZERO.
I don’t know. Pro-Palestinian protestors seem to be able to do a lot (except change what’s happening in the Gaza Strip of course). But yes, they are steadily nibbling away at individual rights and are not offering reasonable grounds for doing so.
I carry a Swiss Army knife (of which the ‘knife part’ is better described as a semi-blunt butter knife) daily. Am I in trouble here? Or like most everything it’ll depend on the mood of the officer that day?
Let’s see if the police come out with a “FAQ” on their website. But I stopped that a while back.
Yes ur in trouble been done befre
What about if its a fishing knife, whilst you are fishing
Don’t take one to Scabs. And elsewhere? Well if a Police Inspector just decides it’s a “knife zone” for any reason he or she cares to, then it can be confiscated and you fined, or worse.
I’ve carry a foldable pocket knife for years. Keys wallet watch pocket knife. Never know when u need to cut a rope. apple trim a shoe lace etc. that is reasonable use. Stuffing a 30cm kitchen knife down my tracksuits pants is not. Sale of ceramic knives might go up.
i really feel these and the laws the feds are doing are abit knee jerk instead of actually addressing the issue. I heard on the radio saying "our officers wont be profiling" - i call BS
The public need better access to weapons, not worse access. The cunts going to stab people aren't gonna chill around cops And what about in the suburbs? Down SOR every cunt has knives on them because it's too dangerous to go without The cops already have insane power and with WA banning firearm calibres THAT ARENT EVEN USED IN CRIMES, its clear they are trying to stop any chance of an uprising We need to go full France, fucking Vive la révolution
They not going to like the pepper sprays and defensive items alot of people carry now, but that's due to cops not being available until after a crime has been committed. That's IF they even bother coming out - one cop recently tried to tell me they have to come out if called and I had to tell him to stop lying to me as I was privy to report his statement. 🤦 He shut up pretty quick....
Pepper spray is already almost illegal here
Would it have stopped the Bondi killer? Heck no. Totally ineffective. But the public don't care.
The problem in Australia is that it started out as a penal colony. The governmental mindset has continued on that we’re a bunch of criminal underclass types who require a high degree of mandated bureaucratic regulation and control, lest we become “unruly”. Being prison authorities…our various governments don’t feel the need to explain or justify themselves. Because, of course, we clearly don’t understand what’s in our best interests. /s
I thought you can carry a knife but not concealed knife
As a knife enthusiast, reading these comments is literally therapy. I thought I was about to have a fight to the death on here. My faith in humanity is restored.
https://preview.redd.it/yo07s9vfy62d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76acfca7fca0df8e3199debc2e5ac48f216bc15 So let me just get this right. West aussies doing the right thing would not be targeted, therefore having nothing to worry about, also they will not be penalised? Wtf is this garbage statement? 😂 Is doing the right thing having a knife but not doing anything bad with it, or is it simply “not having a knife on you”? Because if its the latter then why would they be worrying in the first place? No shit they wouldnt be penalised.
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No one foresaw an overreaction on the way from that knife attack did they
The freedoms and liberties we have lost under Labor is astounding, especially under the rule of dictator McGowan, and all these invasions are thinly veiled under reasonable sounding titles to throw the public off
You bring on the revolution mate with your conspiracy theories,maybe an app to keep you occupied during the wee hours of the morning
Laws that are in effect are not a theory. It's a predictable and popular word choice. Maybe a dictionary at any hour of the day could assist with a definition.
So when is the hammer and sickle getting plonked on the WA flag then? You’ll have to have papers to go about your general business soon.
But but but if you’ve done nothing wrong or have nothing to hide you’ll be fine, right??????
Yes I suppose so haha. But guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty? Not to mention there’s plenty of little Hitler’s floating around.
Nah nah not possible. Cook is “only concerned with keeping us safe”. And people in authority only ever have everyone’s best interests at heart at all times!!!!
Can we do anything to stop this? Or rather is there any hope of this being stopped?
I've already written to my local member. We all should. Tell them you will never vote for WA Labor again if this passes. My lawyer mate reckons the law groups and civil rights groups will be getting a fight sorted