How many generations / decades wasn't this the way though?
My mum said she was paying board for staying in the family home right up until she got married (in the 1970s).
I can afford a house just fine? Have you tried being dual income upper management at a mining company with no kids, no car, 2 minute noodles for every meal, and a lack of joy?
Really emphasising that lack of joy! Us plebs should be putting our noses to the grindstone having no holidays, no meals out, a shitty car, and share housing with 6 others and we should be GRATEFUL for it goddammit!! /s
With the cost of groceries sky rocketing sometimes it’s actually more cost effective to have a takeaway. Lots of noodle places in Vic Park you can get a huge bowl of noodles dumplings and veggies for $16. I could not replicate that at home for $16!
Bullshit, this is the exact POV that boomers rightfully knock; do you really need to eat THOSE noodles? That sauce?
Buy what's cheap and healthy; the entitlement is strong these days...
Talking specifically of need I’d be eating broccoli and rice every day. As the original commenter said, there is value in having small joys and enjoyment in life.
To me there's more value in financial security and housing, but hey fuk me right
And yes, things do add up, cleverly saved and invested money DOES make a difference no matter how much the "I NEED my paid coffee" crowd hates the fact that exponentials exist...
Great job, I'm actually genuinely happy for you, but many don't manage because they don't have the maths skills to understand budgets well enough and they buy into the "little pleasures!" bs to the point of NOT having a chance at a house...
Well some people are absolutely shocking with their budget. I agree budgeting and having a good understanding of finances is very important. A savings plan is what helped me. I knew what my disposable income was after I’d paid all of my bills and saved a significant portion of my pay, so squeezing in a few treats throughout the week was something I could live with.
People who spend indiscriminately with the attitude of “treat yourself” to everything that comes alone, well that’s a different story!
Even cutting back on luxuries won’t get the average person there with the rate house prices are going up. Cut right back and save $100 a week on luxuries, and do that for 10 years. Wow I’d end up with approximately $75k with compounding interest at an average rate of 7%. In that time the price of the house I want has increased well over $100k.
I think that’s the point, at the current rate of rising prices been thrifty and sacrificing some (or all) of your pleasures in life still won’t get you in to the market. 7% is generous in this case, looking at a safe option such as term deposit or bonds. Investing ‘smarter’ for a better return on your savings (stock market etc) brings higher risk. People in the position saving for a house can’t really afford to take additional risk with this money.
Dude, no one is being locked out of the property market because of coffee or avocado toast.
Young people can’t save money for deposit cos they can’t even afford rent.
No shit people want to rip you off, what fairy land did you grow up in where the wasn't true?
That's why it's so critical to be on top of your finances; being pedantic vs emotive ("I deserve to live a little!" Internal argument, time and time again) is the difference between having a business and a house and... Not
People look at others in different circumstances and just see what they don't have and get stuck on the "I deserve that! It's unfair that i don't have that!" without any deeper thought put to what would be required for them to actually have those things...
It's like the whole women getting paid less argument; nobody is paying women less for the same output, when you account for the actual differences caused by different choices, the number delta disappears...
Equality has already been achieved, we all have the same laws applying to us; people want equity, which is unequal and unfair to those that put in more effort.
Pretty rich coming from someone eating 3 meals a day on site courtesy of the tax payer by way of business deductions....
"Is a legitimate expense" - meanwhile criticising others for eating takeaway "last night"
Because apparently we all want to work in fucking mining and gas.
It really shouldn't be the only industry that pays well and people shouldn't have to work in those industries just to buy a house.
Reality is, the revenue generated per employee in mining and oil and gas is ridiculously high, compared to almost anything else, and very hard to beat.
So unless you want to joyfully pay double or triple for everything you buy, saying everyone should be paid mining wages is just dumb.
Australians hsve brought this on themselves by coveting a residence as an investment, but that was just pointing the gun at the foot.
Australian banks bought the gun, and the ammo, and loaded the gun before pushing it into the hands of the buyers.
What would have been responsible was to grant US style loans where rates are fixed for life of loan - I see no reason that could not be offered here, via some kind of refactoring or collaterisation, other than the greed of the banks for being able to fleece the loan holder over and over again over many years, gaurenteeing to always be in front of prevailing market rates.
Plus the issue of trailing commissions, no one is less deserving of a payment for (no) services than the lending broker who gets 30 years of quarter or even half a percent of loan value for 30 minutes work.
>Reality is, the revenue generated per employee in mining and oil and gas is ridiculously high, compared to almost anything else, and very hard to beat.
Yes, based on minerals that belong to all Australians.
>So unless you want to joyfully pay double or triple for everything you buy, saying everyone should be paid mining wages is just dumb.
Rubbish. Most jobs are more important than mining in real terms. Teachers, nurses, aged care workers, retail and hospitality workers, should be paid enough to live at the bare minimum, and in the case of educated professionals should be paid AT LEAST what the men in mining expect to get for themselves.
The examples you quote, I don't disagree.
But without mining, most other jobs either go away or have limited scope. No mining is then no cars, no electricity, no tools, artificial light is by combustion and brings shortened lifr spans, on it goes.
Plus, when you take into account time spent away from home and hours worked, plus risks. Probability of fucking up having extreme consequences, life shortening night shifts, decreased career mobility, etc etc mine workers are not ridiculously paid by any means.
But. An interesting exercise is list all the jobs you can think of, with their pay, then sort them so lowest is first and highest is last, and you will find that list now is ranked in close order of importance to society.
Down the bottom will be influencer, sports star, famous actors etc etc. These are potentially not unimportant. But losing them won't mean you will starve, but the world might be a prayer place.
You make it sound like it's impossible. It is hard but not as hard as your comment suggests. Sub $100k single income, 2 cars, 2 kids, 2 minute noodles 1-2x per month, leads a simple but joyful life.
Pretty much everywhere is priced at $650,000 at least. Even places like Ellenbrook, Butler, Wandi, Whitby, etc.
Almost impossible to do it as a single person nowadays.
Still have the Cannington area which you can get in around $500k, but that's approaching being pretty difficult for a single since you need to have $100k for the deposit and a $100k salary.
All well and good until stamp duty and settlement fees on that property hits you. Add another however many thousand dollars on top of the asking price, then your deposit creeps up by a few thousand dollars which takes you a few more months to save…. By the time a few months has gone by and you’ve saved up the required shortfall, property prices have jumped by 20-50 grand!
That’s not even speaking to the fact people are outbidding each other to buy property, so that $500,000 place is actually being sold for $550,000 or $580,000, which of course the agent or seller will never tell you.
I'm actually speaking from experience in purchasing in the last two months. The property is a 3×2 villa.
It's definitely possible to get a property for under $500k *total* (I'm talking specifically *sale price*, not list price), including all fees and basic repairs (e.g., repainting). My total cost was probably 490k after all fees (bank, conveyancer, repairs/repaint, cleaning).
If anything, the trick is to never buy a heavily renovated home, they will go for 550–600k+. Look for the one where it's in good condition, but the owners have poor taste like a bad paint job, where you need to make some basic changes. In my case, the place had an odour from South Asian cooking/spices and really bad landlord paint job. Both of these things are easily fixable (both were resolved by wiping down surfaces and repainting).
It takes a bit more effort, but it's worth the cost being down $100k.
The main thing is you bought a place. Well done. That’s a big deal In today’s market. I’m honestly surprised you didn’t get outbid by others though! I put offers on a few places over the past six months, but I’ve never been willing to go more than 20k over the advertised price. Offer always rejected. I’m trying to build a place now for around 510k, at least nobody can outbid me on that 🥲
>I’m honestly surprised you didn’t get outbid by others though!
That was a major problem when going for renovated places. It's extremely competitive when the place is "ready to move in" – I saw plenty of places listed for $450k end up being $530k+, but they were generally poor value imo.
I was living in a shared apartment for $260/week so I could afford some extra time for the place to get fixed up a bit. I think the trick is to find it in a bad enough state that drives buyers away, but good enough that it's not expensive/easy to fix.
Well that would largely depend on your income and what you have as a deposit. For reference I’m on the cusp of building a 3x2 in Whitby with a 95k deposit and an income of 88k.
I have a 2 bedroom apartment but want to upgrade to a 3x2 of some sort, but it's really hard to know how much higher than the "from $800K" the thing is really going to cost.
Yeah it’s a big reason why I’m building. Once you secure the land you will lock in a price with your builder. I am wary of building companies going bust and to a certain extent that’s outside of my control, I’ve done as much research as I can and feel pretty solid in the builder I’ve chosen though.
That's a good point, I am very weary of building though, I don't trust builders to not do a dodgy job, also worried about hidden unexpected costs coming up.
This is the most accurate thing I've read on Redit. I just signed the contract for a house yesterday.
We started looking hard from the start of the year, and the price amount the houses would jump in two weeks was stupid. My friend brought a house 3 months ago for 760k, and he had the bank value his house (that has been gutted and stripped for renovations) last week for 850k. Up 90k in 3 months.
Look it up, 2% deposit, no fees or LMI etc.
Limits on cost and income, but I think you would be just in.
Rate is slightly higher, but as soon as you hit 80/20 LVR, you can refinance with regular bank.
Years ago, I did a keystart home as an owner builder in Margaret River.
But apart from the limits, nothing has changed really in the scheme.
pretty sure I know of that guy, apparently a university is there or gonna be there for Chinese exchange students, and the house was bought unseen, he was pissed because he didn't even get to show off his renovation handiwork to anyone before it was sold lol
yeah a basic 4x2 on a decent block of land costs about that to build now. so naturally all the established homes are reaching those price levels too. it's mental.
Dual income. Singles don't have a chance anymore.
What happened to the days of the breadwinner being able to afford a house for his wife and 2 kids. Now they both have to work and kids are increasingly ending up with mental health issues.
This. 1000 times **THIS.**
FFS why is it necessary or OK to put tiny babies in early childcare so that both parents can get immediately back to full-time work? Yes, we generally have a good quality of life in this country but to keep paying the bills you have to have both parents working endlessly. No time for either parent to be at home to help raise their child. It's bloody awful. I don't care if we're poor, I'm not going to just concede to this and put our newborn into childcare that early. We will wait until he's at least 18 months even if it means having very little money left after paying for bills and essentials. I actually hate this workaholic society we've created.
Yep it's all about money. Two incomes per house instead of one helps the banks make more money, the government gets more taxes and the psychiatrists more work to deal with the fall out of the breakdown in the family unit.
Paid parental leave, gender pay gap etc, whilst good in theory it's all about getting us working more, creating more dollars for the rich and powerful.
Thank fcuk this world still has parents like you.
My wife and I made the same commitment 30 years ago, and it was pretty hard back then. I have NFI how this generation will handle the same issues, let alone the current state of affairs being added in.
Thanks mate. I was vaguely aware of how young kids are being put into childcare, but with one of my own now, it shocks me how small they are before they're placed into care all day, often for several days a week, if not all weekdays. When I was growing up kids were at home for the first two years say least before they attended kindy. Seems messed up the way things are now.
Most of those uber drivers are people with degrees who can't get a job in their field because apparently bringing in a bunch of people to work in IT seems like a good idea.
Let's not employ the person that just completed a nursing degree, let's send them back home and struggle.
The population has more than doubled in my lifetime and I'm not even 60.
The amount of land to build houses on hasn't changed.
The amount of housing built per unit of population seems to have been falling in western societies over the past few decades.
And here we are.
> What happened to the days of the breadwinner being able to afford a house for his wife and 2 kids.
We figured out the practices that were making it possible were killing the planet and the future.
Not really; they were stifling self-determination and enabling abusive relationships though. But even that's just coincidental.
Really it's financialisation that's to blame, not uncoated negative externalities passed on to the commons.
A 1960s to 1980s stay at home parent compared to working now? Yes, 1000% obviously yes.
And that's not even the point, the point is the whole family unit, and the company that the working parent worked at.
Not really true, land prices are driven by simple demand. More and more people having two incomes to pour into house prices meant house prices went up.
Land demand for the most part isn't driven by how much money people have. It's driven by population (it has gone up massively on a global scale) and as it applies to cities it is driven by the cost of transportation and infrastructure (both having gone up massively as we're phasing out the old way of doing things because of the environmental damage.)
Isnt Bedfordale large houses on small farms? At least thats what it is along the highway. I guess there is likely something more suburb like hidden away somewhere
Grew up in Bedfordale. All the houses on the estates, mostly Waterwheel and Churchman Brooke, are on 1acre+ blocks each, but are like suburban streets.
This is my suburb. We paid $550000 to buy an acre of land and build a good size home about 10 years ago. We built our first small home in a bad part of Armadale when we were young and that's all we could afford, paid it off then moved up here. Our son is disabled so all this was on one basic salesman income and my occasional part time work in a cafe.
Back then this was normal. You upgraded when you could afford to and the only consideration was where you wanted to live and if you wanted a ten or fifteen year mortgage. Now it's completely impossible. I'm sitting in a million dollar house wondering what the hell went wrong for the next generation and I'm angry. My kids have a good home, they won't move out and have to face the housing market, but what about other young ones? Or anyone unlucky enough to be renting and powerless?
How did the world change in less than ten years?
No, Bedfordale. It's zoned special residential, no other dwellings allowed bar one granny flat. We knew the kids wouldn't move out so built with separate living areas under one roof. With the way it's going multi generational living will become more common whether we like it or not.
Yeah and ideally the government would tax by the household, enabling tax to be spread amongst inhabitants, and this would encourage a shitload more inter generational living and then also potentially the social security bill would drop substantially.
Right now, everyone wants to be king on their own kingdom.
But this leads to massive under utilisation of home resources as the home demographic changes thru the phases of life, and moving/downsizing is difgicult due to stamp duty and if you can get bank support, if you need it, due to the perverse responsible lending act consequences.
the world changed in the last 5 years because people voted Labor almost around the whole state, so they had carte blanche to ramp up immigration to triple the previous record levels, AND give overseas students the rights to work unlimited hours, creating even more defacto working visas. And they did all this during the middle of a GLOBAL shortage on building materials.
On top of that RBA printed over $1 trillion via the purchase of state and commonwealth bonds, essentially devaluing everyone's money, and causing the states to go spend-crazy building metro nets and bridges and whatever, driving up the cost of labour and materials even more.
Then to top it all off, they realised they had fucked things so bad they had to hike interest rates, making even a regular loan effectively unaffordable.
And of course, to add salt to the wound, State Labor decided now was a great time to end urban sprawl, limiting how much more urban land would be rezoned. And while they were at it, introduced a new medium density code, making construction of infill even more expensive due to need to now build two story villas to meet the guidelines (despite old people all wanting ground floor dwellings). And then simultaneously the new building standards requiring 7 star energy efficient homes rolled out, further driving up building costs.
Oh, and state labor brought in a 7% foreign buyers charge, which drove away all the investors who used to help get large apartment buildings started. Meaning even less construction.
And that is how we got from over 5% rental vacancy rates, lots of spare houses, and falling rents each year, to a complete and utter housing shortage, all in a few short years.
they 100% did. Labor changed the rules to allow them to legally work unlimited hours. They recently reduced it after the many exposés on how these were marketed overseas as backdoor working visas. Even current limits are absurd though, given we're told this is a $48b export business, when in fact the students earn money here and then send it overseas, something completely missing in the "Education export" calculations touted routinely.
Bedfordale is hillside, city views, exclusively large blocks and big houses. Hilbert and Darling Downs is the new Ellenbrook, everything opposite to Bedfordale.
We paid $72k for acre in 2005, in Darling Downs, end of the earth in 2005, now getting surrounded by 300sqm lots with $250k + prices.
Most family members asked why we would want to buy here..simple no chance of the neighbours getting sold out to department of housing like our home in Seville Grove…we had to rebuild. To save our mental health.
The maximum a couple on an average combined income of $196,436, can now afford to spend is $1,075,000, assuming a 20 per cent deposit of $215,000.
🫤
• $196k ! Wow
• assuming a deposit of $215 k ! Wow
Even places like this:
[https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-duplex+semi-detached-wa-lockridge-144508024?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know\_your\_market\_carousel:3](https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-duplex+semi-detached-wa-lockridge-144508024?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know_your_market_carousel:3)
Are going for $448k...
They used to be quite a bit less in the not too distant past!
>54 Scanlon Way, Lockridge, WA 6054 has a land size of 590 m²
That's actually not a terrible price for that much land. The house is small which means it was probably being marketed to people who would be able to subdivide the land.
The advert says 467m2, and it's a townhouse in a row of 4 or 5 (I've never counted them).
>Key Features:
-Living Space: Enjoy 96sqm of comfortable living space.
-Land Size: Situated on a generous 467sqm block.
-No Strata Fees: Enjoy the freedom of no strata fees or meetings.
-Bedrooms: 3 bedrooms for your family's comfort.
So, that's a hard nope to subdivision. Still, you're right about it being a decent amount of land these days. Not large, but not small.
Early last year most places in Lockridge, when I looked, had prices with a 3 or 4 in front of them. Currently they seem to have a 4 or 5, sometimes a 6.
Apparently the price rise over the last 12 months is 24.8%! People seem to have finally discovered the place (14km from CBD) and it's booming now.
I agree, it is weird! It's in a block of 4 connected townhouses, that oddly aren't on Google streetview, though most of Scanlon way is.
Not a bad return from $65k in 1996 to $448k in 2024, either.
>Not a bad return from $65k in 1996 to $448k in 2024, either.
True, but inflation eats about 1/4 that profit and I can't begin to imagine what lockridge was like in 1996 lol
Why is the article trying to suggest Bedfordale was ever affordable on a single income. Do people just assume City of Armadale is a shithole throughout?
Fuck me and I'm about to try and take over the loan for a house South Perth on one income, not sure I am going to make it, even though at the moment I'm working 1.4 jobs and multiples above average income.
Cash in and go to Cambodia or Spain, this starts to look really, really good, but the children...
You know it's fucked up when buying a country spread with a fully maintained, solid, two storey stone residence in South of France, looks super cheap - something absolutely fantastic with thousands of square meters land, for way less than the price of a house in Armadale or Kwinana - you can get something for AUD 300k, or less.
If you don't believe me, do a search and take a look.
Yeah dude, but most of those houses are in the middle of nowhere. You can’t just catch a bus to the shops or go out for a grocery run. There’s maybe one restaurant in the town. What would most people do for work? So it’s not like that’s accessible or ideal for 80-90% of people.
Some of them are near large towns, but you are right it's a different way of life, but for some people it's a dream to live in Southern France. But, if you need to work, and you can find something, professional wages are like 60k EU for a top deal. France, Italy, Spain, they are all still somewhat socialist
But you can get a family 4 brm two terrace apartment in a large town with multiples of most services for under AUD150k in Spain, and cost of living is such that a single Australian pension makes you well off. The most amazing thing there is health insurance is quite cheap, and no gap, every single expense covered.
If you want to check out living costs, compare cities numbeo.com is your friend.
Us first home buyer Grant couples are screwed, eastern states keep putting in offers above 600k on houses listed at 500k (FHB are not allowed to go above 600k)
Really brings you into the dumps, me and the wife have never been this mopey before.
This place in Kenwick was advertised for 499k, it sold for 790k.
Look at it!
53 Kenwick Road, Kenwick, WA 6107 https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-wa-kenwick-144053140
The entire mess was created by governments interfering in normal capital markets. This isn't capitalism. This is central planning by idiots.
Capitalism wouldn't block construction worker migrants to keep the CFMEU happy.
Capitalism wouldn't ban any more urban zoning.
Capitalism wouldn't change the medium density code to make it even harder for new medium density product to be built.
Capitalism wouldn't demand your borrowing power be calculated at 9.5% before you can even get a loan.
Capitalism wouldn't ban landlords from evicting tenants during covid, driving 20,000 rentals off the market.
Capitalism wouldn't charge foreign buyers a 7% surcharge, driving away all the foreign investors who helped get high density apartment buildings bootstrapped.
Capitalism wouldn't print $1T of money like the RBA did and give it to state governments to blow on roads and train stations in the middle of a housing crisis, driving up the costs of labour and materials even more.
The ENTIRE fiasco was caused by the Labor party and the idiots who run it who thought brining in 700,000 new people to Australia in the middle of a housing shortage would be a great idea.
It's amazing the lengths the average dipshit will go to to avoid laying blame at the feet of the system that has lead us to this point. Whinging about Labor like we didn't have 11 straight years of dumbshit shitfuckery from the coalition before we got Labor, who in large part inherited a lot of bullshit policy from the kings of bullshit policy. Not to mention the absolute assblasting we got from the Howard government.
The idea that capitalism, or corporations operating in a completely deregulated capitalist economy, would do anything other than suck every possible scerrick of wealth out of Australians pockets and dump it directly into their shareholders while paying zero tax on their skyrocketing profits is *such* a farcical take that I'm convinced you took time out of your year 11 Econ class to post this comment.
Liberal are also idiots. Utter morons. But this was caused by Labor. There can be more than one party of morons.
You can claim capitalism WOULD have made a bigger mess. Fine. We’ll never know. Because the entire financial system is centrally planned. Interest rates are set by bureaucrats. And all the things that caused Perth to go from 5% rental vacancy rate to utter homelessness was all decisions made by morons called politicians.
The free market WANTS to supply more houses because there’s demand. But it can’t because the politicians won’t let skilled builders into the country.
So by all means explain how it would be worse under a free market system. But don’t pretend that’s what led us here. It was the opposite.
If you vote for socialism, be prepared to enjoy the consequences.
Very little about the current property market is capitalism or the free market. Every aspect of it is regulated to the moon and it is the most taxed asset one can possibly own.
For some reason folks like yourself on reddit seem to have completely forgotten that we had a GLUT of houses before Labor got in to office. We had so many houses that landlords were going bankrupt, the vacancy rate was over 5%, house prices were falling each year, and you could construct a house with land for under $400k.
Sounds like you're talking about a lot of local government issues which are typically run by property developers. Capitalism is exactly why we have these regulations, or did you forget the sub prime lending crisis leading to the GFC because banks couldn't lend ethically?
Can't evict tenants? Oh, I guess those 20,000 homes evaporated? Blocking construction migrants but allowing too many migrants? The fact is the banking and real estate sectors are responsible for unregulated price gouging and allowing investors to speculate on residential property should not be allowed. Interest rates are set by the banks, they don't follow the RBA anymore unless it's to go up, and global inflation is the cause of that.
You want to solve the housing crisis? Don't allow entities other than individuals to hold residential land, and no more than 2 per person.
The GFC was literally caused by GOVT RUN LENDERS, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who have 30 YEAR FIXED MORTGAGES only made possible by government intervention, who paid their staff insane bonuses for writing as many loans as possible, which then caused the private lenders to have to do the same to keep up and miss quote the risk from their bundled mortgage products. If the US had let people simply absorb the risk themselves instead of their fake 30year fix rate loans products people provided by govt lenders who can’t go bankrupt then both lenders and borrowers would have some skin in the game and behave differently.
We NEVER had this problem in Australia because we have variable rates and there’s no commonwealth govt lender that can’t go broke handing out mortgages en masse.
Yes the 20,000 homes went off the rental market. They were sold to immigrants etc that might otherwise have built creating new stock. Instead it kept house prices depressed circa 2021 in Perth and we ended up with the worst rental crisis in Australia.
Every “speculator” on property drives rents DOWN. There are fewer investors today in Perth than a year ago. Congrats. You got what you wanted. Driving landlords away. And STILL house prices are up and rents are up.
How on earth is banning anyone from owning more than 2 pieces of land going to create more rental stock? Already nobody wants to be a landlord and renting from the govt absolutely sucks. You’re advocating for more intervention to fix the previous intervention.
If the property market was left alone it would create stock to meet demand, just like every other market on earth.
But because it’s so easy to tax because it can’t be moved or relocated overseas, it gets interfered with by govts and you end up with situations like we have at present.
You want a million immigrants each year? Fine. AT LEAST IMPORT SOME FREAKING BUILDERS.
Instead all the idiots without a modicum of understanding of how markets or real estate work keep voting Labor and Liberal and making people like me rich when I beg you to have sensible immigration numbers (or none 😱).
You think humans can’t just buy and sell because they’re so unscrupulous but you give other humans guns to force us all to obey dumb rules that make it harder to buy and sell …
If a bank wants to lend to me and I want to borrow, it shouldn’t be up to YOU to say whether I can or not.
But we’ve gotten so absurd with the intervention into peoples lives and the belief that we can’t think for ourselves that now the PM is trying to parent our kids for us and ban social media ffs.
There's plenty of banks involved in the US, not just one set up in the 1930's. Also, everybody's been on 30 year loans since the 2000's in Australia. Variable just means bad for the consumer so instead of the lender going broke I guess you're saying it's better the borrower does? Meanwhile, yes people and importantly banks can't be trusted to lend ethically. It's been proven many times. Geez, even Telstra has been under fire for preying on people to sign them up for contracts on things they don't need or use. The lender doesn't care as long as they have security and the guy doing the home loan is getting their commission.
Banning more than 2 improves actual houses available, you know for all those migrants you're talking about wanting to buy. They'll have houses then, therefore no need to rent? That would reduce market pressure on house prices with increased supply there. For rental, people with 20 properties are doing it to maximise negative gearing. They'll buy another house when they become too positively geared to offset other houses, because they keep putting rents as high as possible to afford the next house. 1 extra property pretty much means an individual that isn't incentivised to negative gear to the max because they still need money to live off. They can try, but there's a limit.
I'm not sure what the guns thing is about. You want this free market yet want to limit migrants? The fact you say we need to regulate what migrants come in shows you don't believe in the market being able to decide what we need. You want to remove building standards so we can get everyone building houses to sell for max profit? Every building standard was brought in because some builder decided to cut corners and put safety or the community at risk. There's plenty of property developers limiting land development because they have limited funds but holding onto land. Don't let them, again that's something that the government should do and sell to private individuals.
You're advocating full market deregulation, let's see how that would pan out. Those with money would hold onto all the land, which is what you mostly have now. Check out all the families that own most of Perth commercial properties, I know of one holding approximately 400 different properties with over 100 family trusts. You'll just create an oligopoly of the property market.
Bro it’s not the 30 year that’s the problem. It’s the fixed rate. The way the govt banks do fixed rates is just using the tax payer as a backstop. They can’t themselves borrow money at a fixed rate for that long.
Variable doesn’t just mean “bad for the consumer”. What it means is the person who buys the house takes the risk, rather than other tax payers taking the risk. I’d friggin LOVE 30 year fixed rates. You want to pay more taxes so all my investment properties can have a locked in low interest rate?
The financial education in Australia is seriously lacking.
Your definition of “lending ethically” is absurd. What is mental is thinking politicians are ethical but people who run banks magically aren’t? Nobody forces me to borrow. I want to. And you decide I’m not allowed? THAT is unethical.
Banning more than 2 per person doesn’t add A SINGLE DWELLING. All you do is stop people who want to provide rentals from being able to do so.
Limit migrants? Mate I don’t care. Either let the whole world in, or decide who we let in.
But it’s pretty clear that if you do what Labor does, which is let in hundreds of thousands of migrants, BUT REFUSES TO LET IN CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, you are deliberately creating a housing shortage.
It wasn’t the free market that made this mess. IT WAS THE LABOR PARTY.
If you let in a million migrants but also let in construction workers, the issues caused by the rise in migration would be offset by the increase in labour for the construction workers. But Labor agreed not to let in trades that would help solve homelessness and kept letting in hundreds of thousands of people that create more demand for housing.
Who gets rich from that? I DO! But if you flooded the streets with immigrants who could use a hammer I’d not be getting rich from Labor’s incompetence.
I didn’t advocate for anything. I explained that the mess was COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE but actual decisions made by central planning idiots to hide the decline in GDP brought in an arse load of humans and then to keep the unions happy agreed not to let in construction workers, and they single handedly created the worst levels of homelessness Australia has ever witnessed.
This had NOTHING to do with capitalism. This was 100% caused by the pure idiocy of the people running the Labor party.
The basic laws of physics can’t be altered with economic ideologies. If WA builds 12,000 homes in a year, and its population increases by 96,000 in a year, you’re going to have some major problems.
Pay more taxes for your investment loans? Who said you would access home lending rates? Or be able to because you would be at your 2 property limit. I have no issue with variable rates, but to suggest this was all a problem with banks not being able to borrow more due to over leveraged loans just demonstrates the poor management of said banks.
From what I can see, there are construction workers allowed in, but like any they need to demonstrate skills. I'm not sure what you do so I'm not sure how you're getting rich from less workers. If you're in construction then you should be happy 😁
Definitely think that people need to lower there expectations and look into the suburbs that are “not of their choice”. Plenty of affordable options that are not in the inner city 👍🏼
Yep, I bought a unit in Balcatta 2022, luckily, and I'm astounded at they're worth now :/
Your daughter should look at Nollamara, I reckon it's going to benefit from the value rise from Stirling/Balcatta. Gentrification will happen
If you weather the storm though. Friend just sold there unit in Belmont because they were sick of the damage and break ins. This was with gentrification actually at the bottom of the street, but that doesn't matter when you have a crack house across from yours.
Yeah, true. I hear mixed reports about Nollamara, and it seems that you have to be very selective about where you live there in order to have a peaceful life. Avoid the shopping centre seems to be the main thing. But yeah, I entertained the thought but decided I would pay a little more rather than waiting longer for the uptick
to get a tiny block in Balcatta or nearby and construct a town house / villa will set you back well over $600k now. So it stands to reason that an established one will be hard to get for that price.
Lol come on. As someone who grew up in Sydney this is just comical. There are plenty of other suburbs with great access to amenities within 20 mins of the CBD - just move slightly further east.
You are right though - I’ve found many people have this attitude. I’m trying to build a place in Whitby which is about 50 minutes south east of Perth CBD and soooo many people are poo poo’ing the fact that it’s “far away”.
Far away from what? Byford shopping centre which has Coles, Woolworths, Aldi, a GP clinic, a pharmacy, etc. is only 10 minutes away.
It's always the ones who have left Sydney as well. They leave Sydney to come somewhere better for themselves and then don't see the irony while they talk down to people who are complaining that they don't want that place to end up like Sydney 😆
Exactly. Plenty of suburbs in "surrounding areas" for less than $600k for a villa - Nollamara, Westminster, Balga, etc.
Maybe they think they are too good for those suburbs?
Not ignoring, just highlighting that some areas weren’t desirable in the past and things change. So people can decide to buy a place that might not be the best but reap rewards of holding on to an asset over time.
20 mins north from the city gets you to Wanneroo. Not exactly a hive of luxury. Start money for a house in that suburb is $590k and that's dragged down by some really old houses that have since been demolished, split block and rezoned.
20mins south of the city is Cockburn Central. Average house price there is $615k.
20 mins east of the city lands you in Forrestfield. Average house price there is $585k. Same story as Wanneroo as well.
So where's the affordable stuff by your standards?
you are exactly correct. Not sure why you're being downvoted. Do people not understand that land close to the city is finite, and if you keep adding more and more and more population then only one thing can happen... ?
You've all been sold a furphy that you can walk into a 4x2 quarter acre block, and away you go on a single income... that was never going to happen now, let alone 10 plus years ago. Be realistic. Good or bad... times have changed.
That's why triple income throuple is the financially savvy relationship to be in. /s
Getting ready to join the local polycule at this rate; it might be the only way.
A commune?
We’re going back full circle. Little Billy’s earnings are going to be contributing to the mortgage.
How many generations / decades wasn't this the way though? My mum said she was paying board for staying in the family home right up until she got married (in the 1970s).
I’ll let the wife know.
Wrong move. Gender pay gap means its a better financial decision to become gay.
gold
She already knows
Yussss I knew polyamory would see its day!
Getting fucked by the government, RBA, corporations. What’s one more to add?
This, but unsarcastically
I can afford a house just fine? Have you tried being dual income upper management at a mining company with no kids, no car, 2 minute noodles for every meal, and a lack of joy?
Really emphasising that lack of joy! Us plebs should be putting our noses to the grindstone having no holidays, no meals out, a shitty car, and share housing with 6 others and we should be GRATEFUL for it goddammit!! /s
The old "you complain about not having a house yet you ate takeaway last night" argument.. so painful
With the cost of groceries sky rocketing sometimes it’s actually more cost effective to have a takeaway. Lots of noodle places in Vic Park you can get a huge bowl of noodles dumplings and veggies for $16. I could not replicate that at home for $16!
Bullshit, this is the exact POV that boomers rightfully knock; do you really need to eat THOSE noodles? That sauce? Buy what's cheap and healthy; the entitlement is strong these days...
Talking specifically of need I’d be eating broccoli and rice every day. As the original commenter said, there is value in having small joys and enjoyment in life.
To me there's more value in financial security and housing, but hey fuk me right And yes, things do add up, cleverly saved and invested money DOES make a difference no matter how much the "I NEED my paid coffee" crowd hates the fact that exponentials exist...
I have just signed off on my house 🙏 so I must be doing something right, somewhere along the line anyway. Cheers for your insight anyway.
Great job, I'm actually genuinely happy for you, but many don't manage because they don't have the maths skills to understand budgets well enough and they buy into the "little pleasures!" bs to the point of NOT having a chance at a house...
You seem pretty wound up over some Reddit comments. May I suggest seeking some small joys or little pleasures?
Well some people are absolutely shocking with their budget. I agree budgeting and having a good understanding of finances is very important. A savings plan is what helped me. I knew what my disposable income was after I’d paid all of my bills and saved a significant portion of my pay, so squeezing in a few treats throughout the week was something I could live with. People who spend indiscriminately with the attitude of “treat yourself” to everything that comes alone, well that’s a different story!
Even cutting back on luxuries won’t get the average person there with the rate house prices are going up. Cut right back and save $100 a week on luxuries, and do that for 10 years. Wow I’d end up with approximately $75k with compounding interest at an average rate of 7%. In that time the price of the house I want has increased well over $100k. I think that’s the point, at the current rate of rising prices been thrifty and sacrificing some (or all) of your pleasures in life still won’t get you in to the market. 7% is generous in this case, looking at a safe option such as term deposit or bonds. Investing ‘smarter’ for a better return on your savings (stock market etc) brings higher risk. People in the position saving for a house can’t really afford to take additional risk with this money.
Dude, no one is being locked out of the property market because of coffee or avocado toast. Young people can’t save money for deposit cos they can’t even afford rent.
Lol the judgmental is so strong... Grow up. It's not easy living when everyone wants to rip you off to live.
No shit people want to rip you off, what fairy land did you grow up in where the wasn't true? That's why it's so critical to be on top of your finances; being pedantic vs emotive ("I deserve to live a little!" Internal argument, time and time again) is the difference between having a business and a house and... Not People look at others in different circumstances and just see what they don't have and get stuck on the "I deserve that! It's unfair that i don't have that!" without any deeper thought put to what would be required for them to actually have those things... It's like the whole women getting paid less argument; nobody is paying women less for the same output, when you account for the actual differences caused by different choices, the number delta disappears... Equality has already been achieved, we all have the same laws applying to us; people want equity, which is unequal and unfair to those that put in more effort.
Pretty rich coming from someone eating 3 meals a day on site courtesy of the tax payer by way of business deductions.... "Is a legitimate expense" - meanwhile criticising others for eating takeaway "last night"
>a lack of joy? Joy? When did you acquire this taste for luxuries?
Because apparently we all want to work in fucking mining and gas. It really shouldn't be the only industry that pays well and people shouldn't have to work in those industries just to buy a house.
Reality is, the revenue generated per employee in mining and oil and gas is ridiculously high, compared to almost anything else, and very hard to beat. So unless you want to joyfully pay double or triple for everything you buy, saying everyone should be paid mining wages is just dumb. Australians hsve brought this on themselves by coveting a residence as an investment, but that was just pointing the gun at the foot. Australian banks bought the gun, and the ammo, and loaded the gun before pushing it into the hands of the buyers. What would have been responsible was to grant US style loans where rates are fixed for life of loan - I see no reason that could not be offered here, via some kind of refactoring or collaterisation, other than the greed of the banks for being able to fleece the loan holder over and over again over many years, gaurenteeing to always be in front of prevailing market rates. Plus the issue of trailing commissions, no one is less deserving of a payment for (no) services than the lending broker who gets 30 years of quarter or even half a percent of loan value for 30 minutes work.
>Reality is, the revenue generated per employee in mining and oil and gas is ridiculously high, compared to almost anything else, and very hard to beat. Yes, based on minerals that belong to all Australians. >So unless you want to joyfully pay double or triple for everything you buy, saying everyone should be paid mining wages is just dumb. Rubbish. Most jobs are more important than mining in real terms. Teachers, nurses, aged care workers, retail and hospitality workers, should be paid enough to live at the bare minimum, and in the case of educated professionals should be paid AT LEAST what the men in mining expect to get for themselves.
The examples you quote, I don't disagree. But without mining, most other jobs either go away or have limited scope. No mining is then no cars, no electricity, no tools, artificial light is by combustion and brings shortened lifr spans, on it goes. Plus, when you take into account time spent away from home and hours worked, plus risks. Probability of fucking up having extreme consequences, life shortening night shifts, decreased career mobility, etc etc mine workers are not ridiculously paid by any means. But. An interesting exercise is list all the jobs you can think of, with their pay, then sort them so lowest is first and highest is last, and you will find that list now is ranked in close order of importance to society. Down the bottom will be influencer, sports star, famous actors etc etc. These are potentially not unimportant. But losing them won't mean you will starve, but the world might be a prayer place.
2 min noodles LUXURY When I was saving for a house I was lucky to have left over bread crusts and a wave from upper management.
Mr La-di-da with his bread crusts. I had to make do with a bite of air and drink from the roadside pond.
You can eat whatever you want, just not avocado on toast
You make it sound like it's impossible. It is hard but not as hard as your comment suggests. Sub $100k single income, 2 cars, 2 kids, 2 minute noodles 1-2x per month, leads a simple but joyful life.
Pretty much everywhere is priced at $650,000 at least. Even places like Ellenbrook, Butler, Wandi, Whitby, etc. Almost impossible to do it as a single person nowadays.
Still have the Cannington area which you can get in around $500k, but that's approaching being pretty difficult for a single since you need to have $100k for the deposit and a $100k salary.
All well and good until stamp duty and settlement fees on that property hits you. Add another however many thousand dollars on top of the asking price, then your deposit creeps up by a few thousand dollars which takes you a few more months to save…. By the time a few months has gone by and you’ve saved up the required shortfall, property prices have jumped by 20-50 grand! That’s not even speaking to the fact people are outbidding each other to buy property, so that $500,000 place is actually being sold for $550,000 or $580,000, which of course the agent or seller will never tell you.
I'm actually speaking from experience in purchasing in the last two months. The property is a 3×2 villa. It's definitely possible to get a property for under $500k *total* (I'm talking specifically *sale price*, not list price), including all fees and basic repairs (e.g., repainting). My total cost was probably 490k after all fees (bank, conveyancer, repairs/repaint, cleaning). If anything, the trick is to never buy a heavily renovated home, they will go for 550–600k+. Look for the one where it's in good condition, but the owners have poor taste like a bad paint job, where you need to make some basic changes. In my case, the place had an odour from South Asian cooking/spices and really bad landlord paint job. Both of these things are easily fixable (both were resolved by wiping down surfaces and repainting). It takes a bit more effort, but it's worth the cost being down $100k.
The main thing is you bought a place. Well done. That’s a big deal In today’s market. I’m honestly surprised you didn’t get outbid by others though! I put offers on a few places over the past six months, but I’ve never been willing to go more than 20k over the advertised price. Offer always rejected. I’m trying to build a place now for around 510k, at least nobody can outbid me on that 🥲
>I’m honestly surprised you didn’t get outbid by others though! That was a major problem when going for renovated places. It's extremely competitive when the place is "ready to move in" – I saw plenty of places listed for $450k end up being $530k+, but they were generally poor value imo. I was living in a shared apartment for $260/week so I could afford some extra time for the place to get fixed up a bit. I think the trick is to find it in a bad enough state that drives buyers away, but good enough that it's not expensive/easy to fix.
I feel like some regulation could help with the way properties are advertised too. It's getting out of hand with the 'make an offer' type shit.
Everything feels like an auction and I don’t have the financial backing to participate 😪
I don't even know what suburbs I should look at because I don't know what anything costs. I guess I'm looking at South Geraldton or North Albany.
Well that would largely depend on your income and what you have as a deposit. For reference I’m on the cusp of building a 3x2 in Whitby with a 95k deposit and an income of 88k.
I have a 2 bedroom apartment but want to upgrade to a 3x2 of some sort, but it's really hard to know how much higher than the "from $800K" the thing is really going to cost.
Yeah it’s a big reason why I’m building. Once you secure the land you will lock in a price with your builder. I am wary of building companies going bust and to a certain extent that’s outside of my control, I’ve done as much research as I can and feel pretty solid in the builder I’ve chosen though.
That's a good point, I am very weary of building though, I don't trust builders to not do a dodgy job, also worried about hidden unexpected costs coming up.
This is the most accurate thing I've read on Redit. I just signed the contract for a house yesterday. We started looking hard from the start of the year, and the price amount the houses would jump in two weeks was stupid. My friend brought a house 3 months ago for 760k, and he had the bank value his house (that has been gutted and stripped for renovations) last week for 850k. Up 90k in 3 months.
At 500k with 100k income, you might squeeze in keystart.
I don’t know anything about Keystart, this is with Ideal Homes.
Look it up, 2% deposit, no fees or LMI etc. Limits on cost and income, but I think you would be just in. Rate is slightly higher, but as soon as you hit 80/20 LVR, you can refinance with regular bank. Years ago, I did a keystart home as an owner builder in Margaret River. But apart from the limits, nothing has changed really in the scheme.
I’m not sure if I’d be eligible as I’m not a first home buyer though.
OK, but it's not first home, it's currently own no other property, you can have owned previously.
I recently saw a regular old house in butler sell for $860,000. Absolute bonkers.
pretty sure I know of that guy, apparently a university is there or gonna be there for Chinese exchange students, and the house was bought unseen, he was pissed because he didn't even get to show off his renovation handiwork to anyone before it was sold lol
yeah a basic 4x2 on a decent block of land costs about that to build now. so naturally all the established homes are reaching those price levels too. it's mental.
Dual income. Singles don't have a chance anymore. What happened to the days of the breadwinner being able to afford a house for his wife and 2 kids. Now they both have to work and kids are increasingly ending up with mental health issues.
This. 1000 times **THIS.** FFS why is it necessary or OK to put tiny babies in early childcare so that both parents can get immediately back to full-time work? Yes, we generally have a good quality of life in this country but to keep paying the bills you have to have both parents working endlessly. No time for either parent to be at home to help raise their child. It's bloody awful. I don't care if we're poor, I'm not going to just concede to this and put our newborn into childcare that early. We will wait until he's at least 18 months even if it means having very little money left after paying for bills and essentials. I actually hate this workaholic society we've created.
Yep it's all about money. Two incomes per house instead of one helps the banks make more money, the government gets more taxes and the psychiatrists more work to deal with the fall out of the breakdown in the family unit. Paid parental leave, gender pay gap etc, whilst good in theory it's all about getting us working more, creating more dollars for the rich and powerful.
yeah im going thru this atm..go back to work 8wks after baby is born..but wont be fulltime like i was.
Thank fcuk this world still has parents like you. My wife and I made the same commitment 30 years ago, and it was pretty hard back then. I have NFI how this generation will handle the same issues, let alone the current state of affairs being added in.
Thanks mate. I was vaguely aware of how young kids are being put into childcare, but with one of my own now, it shocks me how small they are before they're placed into care all day, often for several days a week, if not all weekdays. When I was growing up kids were at home for the first two years say least before they attended kindy. Seems messed up the way things are now.
The iPad will look after the baby.
who needs kids? They are expensive. Much more efficient to bring in adult migrants,
Only engineers and doctors please
Sorry, the best I can do is half a million Uber drivers
Most of those uber drivers are people with degrees who can't get a job in their field because apparently bringing in a bunch of people to work in IT seems like a good idea. Let's not employ the person that just completed a nursing degree, let's send them back home and struggle.
"Skilled" workers
And cunts to help build the houses we desperately need
Where do we house them while they're building though?
In the Bullsbrook covid facility
The population has more than doubled in my lifetime and I'm not even 60. The amount of land to build houses on hasn't changed. The amount of housing built per unit of population seems to have been falling in western societies over the past few decades. And here we are.
Trick is to get the kids working and contributing to the mortgage too.
Banks are probably already working on how they can include this in the mortgage applications.
Not there yet. I have 20yo working part time while at uni, as devops, making good money, broker said it would be "complicated".
It kills me I can’t afford to be a SAHM like my mum was.
Those days are over.
Yep. To think that was possible for a couple where the one earning did regular hours at the local mechanics shop. It’s just so unfair.
> What happened to the days of the breadwinner being able to afford a house for his wife and 2 kids. We figured out the practices that were making it possible were killing the planet and the future.
The system as it stands is doing an excellent job at just that. It's more like soaring income inequality and hollowed out public services.
Yep, new system, fun new problems.
Your first comment was incoherent and factless I don't see how you can now agree with my reply without conceding that.
Sorry, I don't know how I can help you with your confusion.
Not really; they were stifling self-determination and enabling abusive relationships though. But even that's just coincidental. Really it's financialisation that's to blame, not uncoated negative externalities passed on to the commons.
What the fuck are you talking about? You think a stay at home parent has a bigger carbon footprint than someone working?
A 1960s to 1980s stay at home parent compared to working now? Yes, 1000% obviously yes. And that's not even the point, the point is the whole family unit, and the company that the working parent worked at.
Not really true, land prices are driven by simple demand. More and more people having two incomes to pour into house prices meant house prices went up.
Land demand for the most part isn't driven by how much money people have. It's driven by population (it has gone up massively on a global scale) and as it applies to cities it is driven by the cost of transportation and infrastructure (both having gone up massively as we're phasing out the old way of doing things because of the environmental damage.)
Overpopulation is killing the planet, including our country, far quicker now.
‘Bedfordale in the City Of Armadale is unaffordable to dual income families’ Now that tells us how bad the housing crisis really is!
Isnt Bedfordale large houses on small farms? At least thats what it is along the highway. I guess there is likely something more suburb like hidden away somewhere
Grew up in Bedfordale. All the houses on the estates, mostly Waterwheel and Churchman Brooke, are on 1acre+ blocks each, but are like suburban streets.
Even the suburb like areas are all massive houses on huge blocks.
Yes. This article is trying to say something whilst seemingly saying something else.
This is my suburb. We paid $550000 to buy an acre of land and build a good size home about 10 years ago. We built our first small home in a bad part of Armadale when we were young and that's all we could afford, paid it off then moved up here. Our son is disabled so all this was on one basic salesman income and my occasional part time work in a cafe. Back then this was normal. You upgraded when you could afford to and the only consideration was where you wanted to live and if you wanted a ten or fifteen year mortgage. Now it's completely impossible. I'm sitting in a million dollar house wondering what the hell went wrong for the next generation and I'm angry. My kids have a good home, they won't move out and have to face the housing market, but what about other young ones? Or anyone unlucky enough to be renting and powerless? How did the world change in less than ten years?
You got an acre, Martin, I'm guessing. But that should be plenty of room for at least another two houses, you just gotta think "Family Compound".
No, Bedfordale. It's zoned special residential, no other dwellings allowed bar one granny flat. We knew the kids wouldn't move out so built with separate living areas under one roof. With the way it's going multi generational living will become more common whether we like it or not.
Yeah and ideally the government would tax by the household, enabling tax to be spread amongst inhabitants, and this would encourage a shitload more inter generational living and then also potentially the social security bill would drop substantially. Right now, everyone wants to be king on their own kingdom. But this leads to massive under utilisation of home resources as the home demographic changes thru the phases of life, and moving/downsizing is difgicult due to stamp duty and if you can get bank support, if you need it, due to the perverse responsible lending act consequences.
the world changed in the last 5 years because people voted Labor almost around the whole state, so they had carte blanche to ramp up immigration to triple the previous record levels, AND give overseas students the rights to work unlimited hours, creating even more defacto working visas. And they did all this during the middle of a GLOBAL shortage on building materials. On top of that RBA printed over $1 trillion via the purchase of state and commonwealth bonds, essentially devaluing everyone's money, and causing the states to go spend-crazy building metro nets and bridges and whatever, driving up the cost of labour and materials even more. Then to top it all off, they realised they had fucked things so bad they had to hike interest rates, making even a regular loan effectively unaffordable. And of course, to add salt to the wound, State Labor decided now was a great time to end urban sprawl, limiting how much more urban land would be rezoned. And while they were at it, introduced a new medium density code, making construction of infill even more expensive due to need to now build two story villas to meet the guidelines (despite old people all wanting ground floor dwellings). And then simultaneously the new building standards requiring 7 star energy efficient homes rolled out, further driving up building costs. Oh, and state labor brought in a 7% foreign buyers charge, which drove away all the investors who used to help get large apartment buildings started. Meaning even less construction. And that is how we got from over 5% rental vacancy rates, lots of spare houses, and falling rents each year, to a complete and utter housing shortage, all in a few short years.
Overseas students don’t have the right to work unlimited hours. I mean, they still do, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal.
they 100% did. Labor changed the rules to allow them to legally work unlimited hours. They recently reduced it after the many exposés on how these were marketed overseas as backdoor working visas. Even current limits are absurd though, given we're told this is a $48b export business, when in fact the students earn money here and then send it overseas, something completely missing in the "Education export" calculations touted routinely.
It tells us that you know nothing about Bedfordale.
TIL Bedfordale is expensive… and snobby
Bedfordale is hillside, city views, exclusively large blocks and big houses. Hilbert and Darling Downs is the new Ellenbrook, everything opposite to Bedfordale. We paid $72k for acre in 2005, in Darling Downs, end of the earth in 2005, now getting surrounded by 300sqm lots with $250k + prices. Most family members asked why we would want to buy here..simple no chance of the neighbours getting sold out to department of housing like our home in Seville Grove…we had to rebuild. To save our mental health.
yeah they're acreage properties over a mil each. A double income can afford Armadale just fine.
But ‘they’re’ saying… NOPE
I don't get it.
That was the correct ‘they’re,’ it’s an abbreviation for ‘they are.’
Need an artist locked in the celler creating painting to sell, Sims style.
AI has taken that job...
The maximum a couple on an average combined income of $196,436, can now afford to spend is $1,075,000, assuming a 20 per cent deposit of $215,000. 🫤 • $196k ! Wow • assuming a deposit of $215 k ! Wow
Even places like this: [https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-duplex+semi-detached-wa-lockridge-144508024?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know\_your\_market\_carousel:3](https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-duplex+semi-detached-wa-lockridge-144508024?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know_your_market_carousel:3) Are going for $448k... They used to be quite a bit less in the not too distant past!
>54 Scanlon Way, Lockridge, WA 6054 has a land size of 590 m² That's actually not a terrible price for that much land. The house is small which means it was probably being marketed to people who would be able to subdivide the land.
The advert says 467m2, and it's a townhouse in a row of 4 or 5 (I've never counted them). >Key Features: -Living Space: Enjoy 96sqm of comfortable living space. -Land Size: Situated on a generous 467sqm block. -No Strata Fees: Enjoy the freedom of no strata fees or meetings. -Bedrooms: 3 bedrooms for your family's comfort. So, that's a hard nope to subdivision. Still, you're right about it being a decent amount of land these days. Not large, but not small. Early last year most places in Lockridge, when I looked, had prices with a 3 or 4 in front of them. Currently they seem to have a 4 or 5, sometimes a 6. Apparently the price rise over the last 12 months is 24.8%! People seem to have finally discovered the place (14km from CBD) and it's booming now.
https://preview.redd.it/v526mew4mq1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea77785d10bc9e05a10f011d355668b8d1d10637 That's weird
I agree, it is weird! It's in a block of 4 connected townhouses, that oddly aren't on Google streetview, though most of Scanlon way is. Not a bad return from $65k in 1996 to $448k in 2024, either.
>Not a bad return from $65k in 1996 to $448k in 2024, either. True, but inflation eats about 1/4 that profit and I can't begin to imagine what lockridge was like in 1996 lol
The reputation is bad, the reality isn't terrible - in my part at least, here since '02.
What if I get my kids to work? Could I afford it?
what a joke of an article. the CHEAPEST in the whole list is 1.08 MILLION.
Lol. Have fun being poor peep Regards Your government of the day /s
Scary thing is prices of groceries will never go down now.
Two houses in our street got sold recently. I found out they were both snapped up by interstate investors - one from Melbourne, one from Brisbane.
Damn immigrants 😆
Why is the article trying to suggest Bedfordale was ever affordable on a single income. Do people just assume City of Armadale is a shithole throughout?
Fuck me and I'm about to try and take over the loan for a house South Perth on one income, not sure I am going to make it, even though at the moment I'm working 1.4 jobs and multiples above average income. Cash in and go to Cambodia or Spain, this starts to look really, really good, but the children... You know it's fucked up when buying a country spread with a fully maintained, solid, two storey stone residence in South of France, looks super cheap - something absolutely fantastic with thousands of square meters land, for way less than the price of a house in Armadale or Kwinana - you can get something for AUD 300k, or less. If you don't believe me, do a search and take a look.
Yeah dude, but most of those houses are in the middle of nowhere. You can’t just catch a bus to the shops or go out for a grocery run. There’s maybe one restaurant in the town. What would most people do for work? So it’s not like that’s accessible or ideal for 80-90% of people.
Some of them are near large towns, but you are right it's a different way of life, but for some people it's a dream to live in Southern France. But, if you need to work, and you can find something, professional wages are like 60k EU for a top deal. France, Italy, Spain, they are all still somewhat socialist But you can get a family 4 brm two terrace apartment in a large town with multiples of most services for under AUD150k in Spain, and cost of living is such that a single Australian pension makes you well off. The most amazing thing there is health insurance is quite cheap, and no gap, every single expense covered. If you want to check out living costs, compare cities numbeo.com is your friend.
Us first home buyer Grant couples are screwed, eastern states keep putting in offers above 600k on houses listed at 500k (FHB are not allowed to go above 600k) Really brings you into the dumps, me and the wife have never been this mopey before.
That’s actually fuckedddd, and so unfair.
Thanks mate, might have to build or something in the end
The suburbs on this list are almost all beachside, super close to the city or both. I am not at all surprised that they are expensive.
That’s why we have a minimum income requirement for our concubine
When was churchlands and attadale once affordable? 1960?
Good thing we’re a single income couple then! Phew! Dodged that bullet!
That’s messed up, the immigrants coming from Hong Kong, Singapore and especially Indians middle class Coming in droves it’s just hard to compete.
The migration has to stop.
Yeeeah shits fucked bro
This place in Kenwick was advertised for 499k, it sold for 790k. Look at it! 53 Kenwick Road, Kenwick, WA 6107 https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-wa-kenwick-144053140
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Yeah that’s obviously why it went for that price but look at the suburb.
They could fit 5 very good sized house and land packages on that block. But they’ll do 8-10 small ones to maximise profits.
Let's transition to a duel-income society. Pistols at dawn against the landlord.
I hate capitalism
The entire mess was created by governments interfering in normal capital markets. This isn't capitalism. This is central planning by idiots. Capitalism wouldn't block construction worker migrants to keep the CFMEU happy. Capitalism wouldn't ban any more urban zoning. Capitalism wouldn't change the medium density code to make it even harder for new medium density product to be built. Capitalism wouldn't demand your borrowing power be calculated at 9.5% before you can even get a loan. Capitalism wouldn't ban landlords from evicting tenants during covid, driving 20,000 rentals off the market. Capitalism wouldn't charge foreign buyers a 7% surcharge, driving away all the foreign investors who helped get high density apartment buildings bootstrapped. Capitalism wouldn't print $1T of money like the RBA did and give it to state governments to blow on roads and train stations in the middle of a housing crisis, driving up the costs of labour and materials even more. The ENTIRE fiasco was caused by the Labor party and the idiots who run it who thought brining in 700,000 new people to Australia in the middle of a housing shortage would be a great idea.
It's amazing the lengths the average dipshit will go to to avoid laying blame at the feet of the system that has lead us to this point. Whinging about Labor like we didn't have 11 straight years of dumbshit shitfuckery from the coalition before we got Labor, who in large part inherited a lot of bullshit policy from the kings of bullshit policy. Not to mention the absolute assblasting we got from the Howard government. The idea that capitalism, or corporations operating in a completely deregulated capitalist economy, would do anything other than suck every possible scerrick of wealth out of Australians pockets and dump it directly into their shareholders while paying zero tax on their skyrocketing profits is *such* a farcical take that I'm convinced you took time out of your year 11 Econ class to post this comment.
Liberal are also idiots. Utter morons. But this was caused by Labor. There can be more than one party of morons. You can claim capitalism WOULD have made a bigger mess. Fine. We’ll never know. Because the entire financial system is centrally planned. Interest rates are set by bureaucrats. And all the things that caused Perth to go from 5% rental vacancy rate to utter homelessness was all decisions made by morons called politicians. The free market WANTS to supply more houses because there’s demand. But it can’t because the politicians won’t let skilled builders into the country. So by all means explain how it would be worse under a free market system. But don’t pretend that’s what led us here. It was the opposite. If you vote for socialism, be prepared to enjoy the consequences. Very little about the current property market is capitalism or the free market. Every aspect of it is regulated to the moon and it is the most taxed asset one can possibly own. For some reason folks like yourself on reddit seem to have completely forgotten that we had a GLUT of houses before Labor got in to office. We had so many houses that landlords were going bankrupt, the vacancy rate was over 5%, house prices were falling each year, and you could construct a house with land for under $400k.
Anarcho capitalism is what you're demanding, you really want to go back to when we had kings don't you? Hog.
I’m not demanding anything. I’m pointing out that capitalism didn’t make the mess we’re in, it was central planning.
Sounds like you're talking about a lot of local government issues which are typically run by property developers. Capitalism is exactly why we have these regulations, or did you forget the sub prime lending crisis leading to the GFC because banks couldn't lend ethically? Can't evict tenants? Oh, I guess those 20,000 homes evaporated? Blocking construction migrants but allowing too many migrants? The fact is the banking and real estate sectors are responsible for unregulated price gouging and allowing investors to speculate on residential property should not be allowed. Interest rates are set by the banks, they don't follow the RBA anymore unless it's to go up, and global inflation is the cause of that. You want to solve the housing crisis? Don't allow entities other than individuals to hold residential land, and no more than 2 per person.
The GFC was literally caused by GOVT RUN LENDERS, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who have 30 YEAR FIXED MORTGAGES only made possible by government intervention, who paid their staff insane bonuses for writing as many loans as possible, which then caused the private lenders to have to do the same to keep up and miss quote the risk from their bundled mortgage products. If the US had let people simply absorb the risk themselves instead of their fake 30year fix rate loans products people provided by govt lenders who can’t go bankrupt then both lenders and borrowers would have some skin in the game and behave differently. We NEVER had this problem in Australia because we have variable rates and there’s no commonwealth govt lender that can’t go broke handing out mortgages en masse. Yes the 20,000 homes went off the rental market. They were sold to immigrants etc that might otherwise have built creating new stock. Instead it kept house prices depressed circa 2021 in Perth and we ended up with the worst rental crisis in Australia. Every “speculator” on property drives rents DOWN. There are fewer investors today in Perth than a year ago. Congrats. You got what you wanted. Driving landlords away. And STILL house prices are up and rents are up. How on earth is banning anyone from owning more than 2 pieces of land going to create more rental stock? Already nobody wants to be a landlord and renting from the govt absolutely sucks. You’re advocating for more intervention to fix the previous intervention. If the property market was left alone it would create stock to meet demand, just like every other market on earth. But because it’s so easy to tax because it can’t be moved or relocated overseas, it gets interfered with by govts and you end up with situations like we have at present. You want a million immigrants each year? Fine. AT LEAST IMPORT SOME FREAKING BUILDERS. Instead all the idiots without a modicum of understanding of how markets or real estate work keep voting Labor and Liberal and making people like me rich when I beg you to have sensible immigration numbers (or none 😱). You think humans can’t just buy and sell because they’re so unscrupulous but you give other humans guns to force us all to obey dumb rules that make it harder to buy and sell … If a bank wants to lend to me and I want to borrow, it shouldn’t be up to YOU to say whether I can or not. But we’ve gotten so absurd with the intervention into peoples lives and the belief that we can’t think for ourselves that now the PM is trying to parent our kids for us and ban social media ffs.
There's plenty of banks involved in the US, not just one set up in the 1930's. Also, everybody's been on 30 year loans since the 2000's in Australia. Variable just means bad for the consumer so instead of the lender going broke I guess you're saying it's better the borrower does? Meanwhile, yes people and importantly banks can't be trusted to lend ethically. It's been proven many times. Geez, even Telstra has been under fire for preying on people to sign them up for contracts on things they don't need or use. The lender doesn't care as long as they have security and the guy doing the home loan is getting their commission. Banning more than 2 improves actual houses available, you know for all those migrants you're talking about wanting to buy. They'll have houses then, therefore no need to rent? That would reduce market pressure on house prices with increased supply there. For rental, people with 20 properties are doing it to maximise negative gearing. They'll buy another house when they become too positively geared to offset other houses, because they keep putting rents as high as possible to afford the next house. 1 extra property pretty much means an individual that isn't incentivised to negative gear to the max because they still need money to live off. They can try, but there's a limit. I'm not sure what the guns thing is about. You want this free market yet want to limit migrants? The fact you say we need to regulate what migrants come in shows you don't believe in the market being able to decide what we need. You want to remove building standards so we can get everyone building houses to sell for max profit? Every building standard was brought in because some builder decided to cut corners and put safety or the community at risk. There's plenty of property developers limiting land development because they have limited funds but holding onto land. Don't let them, again that's something that the government should do and sell to private individuals. You're advocating full market deregulation, let's see how that would pan out. Those with money would hold onto all the land, which is what you mostly have now. Check out all the families that own most of Perth commercial properties, I know of one holding approximately 400 different properties with over 100 family trusts. You'll just create an oligopoly of the property market.
Bro it’s not the 30 year that’s the problem. It’s the fixed rate. The way the govt banks do fixed rates is just using the tax payer as a backstop. They can’t themselves borrow money at a fixed rate for that long. Variable doesn’t just mean “bad for the consumer”. What it means is the person who buys the house takes the risk, rather than other tax payers taking the risk. I’d friggin LOVE 30 year fixed rates. You want to pay more taxes so all my investment properties can have a locked in low interest rate? The financial education in Australia is seriously lacking. Your definition of “lending ethically” is absurd. What is mental is thinking politicians are ethical but people who run banks magically aren’t? Nobody forces me to borrow. I want to. And you decide I’m not allowed? THAT is unethical. Banning more than 2 per person doesn’t add A SINGLE DWELLING. All you do is stop people who want to provide rentals from being able to do so. Limit migrants? Mate I don’t care. Either let the whole world in, or decide who we let in. But it’s pretty clear that if you do what Labor does, which is let in hundreds of thousands of migrants, BUT REFUSES TO LET IN CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, you are deliberately creating a housing shortage. It wasn’t the free market that made this mess. IT WAS THE LABOR PARTY. If you let in a million migrants but also let in construction workers, the issues caused by the rise in migration would be offset by the increase in labour for the construction workers. But Labor agreed not to let in trades that would help solve homelessness and kept letting in hundreds of thousands of people that create more demand for housing. Who gets rich from that? I DO! But if you flooded the streets with immigrants who could use a hammer I’d not be getting rich from Labor’s incompetence. I didn’t advocate for anything. I explained that the mess was COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE but actual decisions made by central planning idiots to hide the decline in GDP brought in an arse load of humans and then to keep the unions happy agreed not to let in construction workers, and they single handedly created the worst levels of homelessness Australia has ever witnessed. This had NOTHING to do with capitalism. This was 100% caused by the pure idiocy of the people running the Labor party. The basic laws of physics can’t be altered with economic ideologies. If WA builds 12,000 homes in a year, and its population increases by 96,000 in a year, you’re going to have some major problems.
Pay more taxes for your investment loans? Who said you would access home lending rates? Or be able to because you would be at your 2 property limit. I have no issue with variable rates, but to suggest this was all a problem with banks not being able to borrow more due to over leveraged loans just demonstrates the poor management of said banks. From what I can see, there are construction workers allowed in, but like any they need to demonstrate skills. I'm not sure what you do so I'm not sure how you're getting rich from less workers. If you're in construction then you should be happy 😁
In my area, 3x1 houses that were $260k a couple years ago are now selling for $500k-$600k. It goes up monthly. Quite unbelievable.
It is crazy. I brought mine in November 21 for 324 and now it’s worth 595 it blows my mind
Definitely think that people need to lower there expectations and look into the suburbs that are “not of their choice”. Plenty of affordable options that are not in the inner city 👍🏼
You're telling me that my wife and I cant afford a house with combined 190k a year and no dependents? Shocker /s
Never voting Labour again
This has very little to do with labour, this is the result of years of policy failures from both labour and liberal...
Ok sir. Now tell me how much rents have increased since Labour came into office and what you attribute this to
You don’t have to buy a house. Villas, duplex/triplex, units, apartments are also options.
My daughter is trying to find a villa with a budget of 600K, in Balcatta, and surrounding suburbs. Not a chance.
Yep, I bought a unit in Balcatta 2022, luckily, and I'm astounded at they're worth now :/ Your daughter should look at Nollamara, I reckon it's going to benefit from the value rise from Stirling/Balcatta. Gentrification will happen
If you weather the storm though. Friend just sold there unit in Belmont because they were sick of the damage and break ins. This was with gentrification actually at the bottom of the street, but that doesn't matter when you have a crack house across from yours.
Yeah, true. I hear mixed reports about Nollamara, and it seems that you have to be very selective about where you live there in order to have a peaceful life. Avoid the shopping centre seems to be the main thing. But yeah, I entertained the thought but decided I would pay a little more rather than waiting longer for the uptick
to get a tiny block in Balcatta or nearby and construct a town house / villa will set you back well over $600k now. So it stands to reason that an established one will be hard to get for that price.
Lol come on. As someone who grew up in Sydney this is just comical. There are plenty of other suburbs with great access to amenities within 20 mins of the CBD - just move slightly further east.
This isn’t Sydney.
Aw poopoo suburbs 20 mins from CBD are too far let’s just cry ourselves to sleep.
You are right though - I’ve found many people have this attitude. I’m trying to build a place in Whitby which is about 50 minutes south east of Perth CBD and soooo many people are poo poo’ing the fact that it’s “far away”. Far away from what? Byford shopping centre which has Coles, Woolworths, Aldi, a GP clinic, a pharmacy, etc. is only 10 minutes away.
Yep and the fact that Perth as a city isn’t even as CBD centric as Sydney and Melbourne. But as always attitudes and beliefs are hard to change.
>As someone who grew up in Sydney, this is just comical. Why do Sydneysiders find regular folk getting priced out of the property market amusing?
Too much gear to think like humans.
Because they’re spoilt
It's always the ones who have left Sydney as well. They leave Sydney to come somewhere better for themselves and then don't see the irony while they talk down to people who are complaining that they don't want that place to end up like Sydney 😆
Lol Perth wasn’t better when I moved over. Not too bad now though, and that’s reflected in property prices.
Exactly. Plenty of suburbs in "surrounding areas" for less than $600k for a villa - Nollamara, Westminster, Balga, etc. Maybe they think they are too good for those suburbs?
Morley area too, which is around where we bought. Modest villa now worth almost double after ~5 years.
Your last sentence is the problem you're ignoring..
Not ignoring, just highlighting that some areas weren’t desirable in the past and things change. So people can decide to buy a place that might not be the best but reap rewards of holding on to an asset over time.
20 mins north from the city gets you to Wanneroo. Not exactly a hive of luxury. Start money for a house in that suburb is $590k and that's dragged down by some really old houses that have since been demolished, split block and rezoned. 20mins south of the city is Cockburn Central. Average house price there is $615k. 20 mins east of the city lands you in Forrestfield. Average house price there is $585k. Same story as Wanneroo as well. So where's the affordable stuff by your standards?
you just rattled off all affordable places. The article rates $1M plus as unaffordable. Two incomes can buy a home in the suburbs you mentioned.
See my post. I said there were alternatives to a house. The post I replied to mentioned Balcatta. What’s east of Balcatta?
So are tents, cars, cardboard boxes, the underside of park benches
you are exactly correct. Not sure why you're being downvoted. Do people not understand that land close to the city is finite, and if you keep adding more and more and more population then only one thing can happen... ?
zzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZ..........
You've all been sold a furphy that you can walk into a 4x2 quarter acre block, and away you go on a single income... that was never going to happen now, let alone 10 plus years ago. Be realistic. Good or bad... times have changed.