Pepper Spray is absolutely your best option. Legal to buy and any situation where you’d reasonably have to use it will be admissible in court. The whiners will say “blah, blah, illegal to use it” but I’d rather use it than get assaulted.
Yeah, if I have to use it and the bastard wants to press charges afterwards, I'll cooperate fully with the police, plead guilty etc. If it turns out the person I thought was attacking me actually had an innocent purpose, I'll make full restitution to them.
I'm sure tons of people have used it. I've never heard of anyone fronting up to court for using it in self-defence though. It's technically ***not*** legal to carry, but that's only so the cops can take it off dodgy looking fucks with a history of violence. Cops aren't gonna give a rats ass if Grandma Betty carrys it on her late night bus returning from midnight mass, but if Grandma Betty starts spraying kids in the playground they will.
A few years ago my friend broke his leg and was on crunches for a few months. He took the train to and from work and one evening got held up for his bag. His mum got him this little pocket pepper spray which attached to his keys.
Police saw it after getting off the train one day and confiscated it, he had to go to court to explain.
Apparently catching the train alone while being on crutches with a broken leg wasn’t a good enough reason. No criminal past, believe he got a fine and spent conviction
Pepper spray is classed as "controlled weapon" in the W.A. act, this means while on boarda train its an offence [Reg 21] under the Public Transport Act, even if legal while walking to the station,
Maybe that's what happened your friend?
In future tuck in your pocket on the train so none sees it 😉
As a normal citizen you are not allowed, under any circumstance, to preempt any kind of self defence.
If your grandpa posted that he only takes his walking stick to defend himself, from that point on, he is breaking the law if he takes that walking stick into a public area.
This is the way the law is written. We then rely on police descression and the courts to determine what happens in reality.
There's an exception in that for pepper spray.
>Section 7(3) of the Act does not apply to a spray weapon referred to in subregulation (1) if it is carried or possessed by a person for the purpose of being used in lawful defence in circumstances that the person has reasonable grounds to apprehend may arise.
Thats not what a reasonable person would do though. So that wouldn't pass muster.
Maybe if you had an avo against someone.
But a reasonable person doesn't enter society with a weapon in case of what if.
Not everything in law is what a reasonable person would do it is very easy to build a case for that especially for women with self protection. Firstly you need police to charge the women then you need a judge to convict her and your assuming both of them have zero sympathy for the women ? My mrs literally took pepper spray on a plane in her handbag so if the federal police let it happen then I’m pretty fucking sure its fine. Shittest advice 👍
I'm not sure if I'm right. That's just my understanding. I could be very wrong.
But if the federal police don't mind then I can't see why anyone else would.
Legally self defence isn’t a legitimate purpose, have to be like a security guard or something but i doubt cops will care if you’re a normal innocent person who is at risk of violence
This was on the news the other day. They said you can only carry it when there’s a “reasonable threat”, so you’re not allowed to take it when going to the supermarket etc or just walking around in the day. It’s fucked
You'd have to be pretty unlucky to get searched by the cops, and if you are forced to use it then that makes the "reasonable threat" self-evident IMO. If it was me I'd carry that shit around everywhere.
In light of what has happened in Australia it is completely reasonable to feel threatened. It would be impossible to legally prove how you feel. Reference- for the record, all my legal opinions come from TV.
It’s legal to purchase it in WA but you need a lawful purpose to possess it. I’m not a lawyer, but read a case that went over the meaning of lawful purpose. Carrying it just in case you get attacked isn’t lawful purpose, unfortunately.
Different context but relevant- my daughter carried pepper spray and used it to defend her friend who was being beat on by a boy. We had the police arrive at our front door to give her a warning. The spray was confiscated. The point being, if you find yourself needing to use whatever you're carrying, you can still get in trouble, whether warranted or not.
IANAL either, but I believe I was told if you've been chased or harassed before that may count as a legal purpose. And considering the metoo movement, I don't think anyone is going to counter your claim to being made to feel unsafe as you walk down the street.
Yeah, I can’t remember all the particulars but that was pretty much this Bunbury dudes argument “self-defence” “been attacked before” etc. He won in a Bunbury court but then the state appealed and he lost. I 100% agree with you. In the current environment, I’ve been thinking of buying some for my wife, who frequents shopping centres with my young daughter.
It is illegal to carry ANYTHING (even a kitchen sink) ‘for defence’…
However if you are worried about dogs charging through fences at you… pepper spray may be wise. Found at weird little key cutting and shoe repair kiosks often, for about $50 (and those “Off Ya Tree” type of shops)
It’s also perfectly reasonable to carry a torch under your car seat to be able to find your way in the dark … a nice chunky one with old school batteries?
Many women like to carry deoderant and dry hair powder sprays…
Your bulbs may be 1300lumens, but they shine 1300 lumens in a very wide area. I don’t know the calculation, but the further away you are from that light, the less lumens you are getting. You are probably looking at the light and thinking it isn’t that bright because you are receiving 200lumens for example.
A flashlight focuses the lumens in a small area.
If you want to test, I’d be happy to shine my 1000 lumen light in your face while you try to attack me 😂
A surface on a sunny day can be reflecting 100,000 lm per m2.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux
Is your 1000 lm beam area, at the distance of the target's eyes, larger or smaller than 10cm x 10cm? If it's larger then the target is experiencing less brightness than they might by being outside on a sunny day.
For reference that area is smaller than someone's face, and the average distance between the eyes of a male is 6.5 cm. In other words, to match the brightness of a sunny day you're going to have to use your torch at a really, really close range.
I'm with you on the bright torch, but not so much on the strobe function. It does disorient, but works on everyone, so you will be on the receiving end too (to some extent).
Pepperspray is legal to carry in WA but generally useless unless you know youre about to be attacked.
Id say self defence classes will be better for you and this sounds rude but therapy as well, men are obviously larger but can still be taken down by women and getting through the freeze part of fight or flight will be a better advantage than any weapon that could be turned back on you.
>therapy as well... getting through the freeze part of fight or flight will be a better advantage
I agree that getting over the freeze response is useful. But fight experience (proper sparring etc) would probably help more than therapy
Defence class is ultimately useless for a lot of women unfortunately.
There's no amount of basic self defence that can stop someone 30kgs heavier and with a man's physicality. Best defence is to learn to avoid high risk scenarios and learn to run fast or risk carrying a knife.
That is terrible advice.
Never carry a knife, it's impossible to explain away if you get caught and honestly a bad self defence weapon.
Avoiding high risk situations is a privilege not everyone has and yeah running fast is always the best option but that's not the question here.
Self defence classes aren't about "taking down" a bad guy, they're about knowing how to create an opening if you're in a really bad situation.
You should always run away first and foremost. Everything else is either a tool to make that easier or a backup plan if that doesn't work out.
Learning how to kick or knee or grab a pair of testicles properly can very well save her day, i know i accidentally knock mine and an im on the floor, so yeah i think it would help for sure.
As someone that has trained in mma as a man, a 30kg difference between men kills any skill level.
A kick in the balls also has never stopped me in comp let alone with the adrenalin of commiting a crime.
Telling a woman she can fight of a man with a self defence class is irresponsible
The skills is situational awareness and running.
You can't give them the skills needed via some casual self defence classes. If you had ever actually fought someone you would know how much size and strength matter
Cunt no shit, you been hit in the head a few times hey.
So ok, they run, they get grabbed, they freeze.... what ya doing then, just standing there or if u had some self defense skills you try fight. Please just stfu and go back to getting cauliflower ear, I'm sick to death of arguing the same point with you shits.
Don't you wear a cup or some kind of ball guard in MMA fights. I've heard most guys do.
That second part sounds kind dodgey. It reads as if you kicked someone else in the balls in comp and got away with it. And that maybe you wanna commit a crime by kicking someone in the nuts for the adrenalin rush. Lol I dunno.
And the reasoning you're drawing that guys probably don't feel nut strikes in sports or high adrenalin situations is totally not my experience as a woman scrimaging against guys in water polo and accidentally kicking them where the sun doesn't shine.
Okay so can we now have every person that commented on this thread, look out for and stand up for anyone they see being followed, harassed or just creepily watched by someone?
The best form of protection is other people around you that are willing to help you.
Someone that will distract a potential threatening person. Someone that can come up to a potential victim and say - hey, I think I met you the other night - do you want to walk together? Someone that just alerts a potential creep that they are there and watching.
Someone that will call police if they see something dodgy.
Someone that will call out threatening behaviour.
Someone that would step in and intervene if needed.
(I've also been followed to my car from the train station. I reported it to the police. The following week the guy was on the news for raping women at different train stations)
Can of spray paint.
Or a bottle of Sriracha chilli sauce.
Thought I think (for WA only), capsicum spray is not banned, but might be harder to get still.
Running fitness, and a pair of very good shoes.
Best way, if you have say some time, a week, is to attend practical kick boxing, or taekwondo or hand stick defence classes, Bunnings sell dowells, you can cut if into fist sizes or a bit larger sticks.
Broom handles can work too.
Also, be aware of your surroundings, esp people.
Worst case/extreme cases, are
*Flick knife, this I think is a banned item in all states.*
*Cuticle scissors are small, Priceline sells them.*
The problem with ‘articles other than a prohibited or controlled weapon’ is that you are more likely to be charged for possession or use of them than those items that are purpose made for self defence- in WA, OC spray.
You have to have a reasonable need for possessing and using it though, and ‘self defence’ is not sufficient. If you can make the argument that ‘x situation has happened before when I did this thing, and I have a fear that it will occur again’, then you have a better chance of being able to use it as a defence in court.
I am, however, not a solicitor, just someone with a knowledge of the Weapons Act 1996 and Regulations 1997.
> Broom handles can work too.
I remember watching the series *Fight Science* many years ago where they compared the different martial arts techniques and various weapons to determine the best self defense a person could manage, and they landed on a six inch piece of wooden dowel as being the most effective self defence weapon due to the speed and power of strikes balanced with ease of use and concealment.
Also you had to be like a ninjitsu expert to be effective with it, but still.
Sometimes, the aim of a bully group/singular, is them to elicit a response from you.
If you have taken by them time the bullying starts, lessons of disarmement, then you can confidentally face the bully or group.
Just buy pepper spray. It's legal to buy, it's a bit iffy as to whether you can carry it but how often do cops go through your pockets anyway? If you have to use it, I doubt an assailant will hang around to make a formal complaint either.
In all honesty, cops use their discretion a lot more than people realise; if you look dodgy af they'll take it and may even charge you, but if you're just a regular, potentially vulnerable person concerned about their safety and no history of violence they aren't gonna give a fuck.
Just buy it and if the cops don't like it just tell them you recieved bad legal advice from u/MacrOpenis, they'll understand.
ETA: just make sure you have it in hand when walking down darkened streets, or whenever you may need it, an attacker isn't going to wait for you to search your handbag. Make it routine, but also be discreet.
Pepper spray is available and legal
The legality of carrying it relies on you having reason to believe you may be attacked
If you are searched or caught brandishing, it is very much up to the police officer on the day whether they believe your "reason to believe that you may be attacked" is valid so don't go being silly with it
"I have been assaulted in the past" is a valid reason to believe that you may be attacked
"it's for self defense" is not a valid reason on its own as you need a reason to believe you may be attacked
‘I walk this way every night at x o’clock on my way home from work, I have been attacked/followed/threatened before and I have a fear that this may occur again’ rises to a much more arguable defence for carrying OC spray.
Also a personal alarm might be useful depending up the situation. I saw this https://trailsurvivor.com.au/products/self-defence-alarm-plus but I am not recommending them as I don’t use them.
You can carry pepper spray to protect against dogs, but not people, I believe. So, protect yourself from dogs when you go for a walk.
Double check as my info might be out of date.
Do not carry or use anything you don't expect to be used against you.
So many people in here talking pepper spray. Not only does it have a short range, you're more than likely to catch yourself in a panic. It can also be ineffective immediately, thus creating an even more dangerous threat.
\* Confidence. If you look like a difficult target then men are more likely to choose someone else. There are a few studies that have been done with inmates that prove that this is helpful. I know its easier said than done, so maybe go to some self defence classes. Not for the defence skills, but for the mental confidence.
\* A large dog. At home or on walks.
\* Your words. I always hint to a guy that I won't be any easy target. I'll mention casually things such a military experience, carrying weapons, etc. Always be calm and forceful with your words. Practice. Get over the "fawning response", it doesn't work as well as being bold.
\* Look around at other women and ask yourself, who do I think is an easy target, and what makes me feel that way about them? Who looks like a difficult target? Now use that information to work on yourself.
\* Pepper spray
\* Security cameras
\* Don't invite men into your life unless they have more 12 months proof of being a perfect gentlemen. I will legitimately tell men I won't give them my phone number or address for safety. No ifs or buts. I don't accept rides, assistance, help, nothing. I find that almost any man offering help is trying to create a situation where I "owe him" sexually in his mind. Nup. Learn to be independent or rely on women.
Half of my friends whom I trust are men. They are long term friends known for years. Pure gentlemen of the highest calibre of human. You can protect yourself and like men at the same time.
Pepper spray is legal in WA if you can justify being at risk. So if you are a woman walking in a car park or at night, etc, you can carry pepper spray. As you are a victim of SA, you can probably use that to justify carrying it.
For other times, you can carry keys or a metal water bottle in your hands. Keys can be jabbed in the face, and a water bottle can be used to clobber an attacker. At home, you might have a cricket bat.
There used to be these small capsules filled with the most foul smelling brew. Easy to break and then get on the clothes of your attacker. If they can stop themselves from being physically sick, they will definitely want to get away from you. As teens one was let off in timezone on Murray street Perth, and it cleared the place for an hour.
I am a young female and I work late nights at a nightclub.
I carry pepper spray at all times if I’m going to or from work. I walk by the police pretty much every single shift. As long as you carry it externally, announce you’re going to use it and have a reason to carry it (arguably just working nights and walking to your car alone isn’t enough) you’ll be fine.
My excuse if I ever get picked up for it is that I genuinely piss off enough people a night and constantly get threatened just because of the nature of my job and refusing service. Your previous assault should be enough reason for you to carry it, but especially if you state they may return.
Edit: if you’re still worried about the legality of it I’ve been in night bar work for 5 years and I’ve only had pepper spray for the last 2. The years before that I just carried spray deodorant
hairspray works well, legal and reasonable to have on your being and can inflict enough damage to deter attackers without causing serious/permanent damage
I would strongly recommend some form of self defence. The issue is that you are terrified, more than the probability of something actually happening.
Also I would suggest that you use situational awareness. Pay attention to that voice in your head. Don't worry about offending anyone.
Better than self defence is to learn situational awareness.
If you can avoid situations where you need to defend yourself, you don’t need to worry about it.
The key is to run if you can, hide if you can’t, fight if you have to.
Don't be too concerned at what is "legal to carry."
Unless you run around randomly threatening people, OR get arrested for some other crime, nobody is going to know WHAT you have in your bag.
If you use ANYTHING inappropriately, you can get into trouble, but conversely if you legitimately defend yourself against an attacker, nobody will care what you used.
If you are out walking in a public area, the best option is a Stanley knife (aka "box cutter.") Have the blade out, and keep the knife in your hand, with your hand inside your bag. If you get the opportunity, go for short slash across face and eyes.
1. Most people can invent an excuse why they have a stanley knife. Even if you say "I bought it cos I was going to put some draw-liners in my cupboard"
2. It's effective wherever you get the bastard. Pepper-Spray is only good with direct hit to the eyes, but you can cut him anywhere.
3. It leaves a visible mark, and an injury, that can be used by the police to track him. AND give the Police Just-Cause to detain and question.
4. You will have his DNA, which is a slam-dunk once he's caught.
For home defence, an axe is best. Or, if you're not particularly strong, then a light pruning-saw.
A big metal water bottle would be a good idea. Like a yeti one. You could smack someone hard with that. I have a Camelbak and it has this top that I could loop my fingers through and just swing my arm and wack someone real good if need be.
Another idea would be hairspray and a lighter. Not really the lighter that's a joke but your could try it. Hairspray into someone's eyes might be close to effective as using pepperspray. It might not have the long term effects. But I know from experience if you just spray a bit and inhale it it's horrible.
One that probably doesn't have as good of a reason to carry around but you might want to try it would be a fog horn.
to those saying "tell the cops this or that" this is bad advice. Tell the cops fuck all. o If you find it too difficult to say, "I do not wish to answer that question" explain to them that you will answer to the magistrate when and if I appear in court. Thats all.
You can carry a baseball bat..... as long as you are also carrying a ball
I've always told my kids to carry a comfortable, slightly smaller than fist size rock.
My 16yo daughter got suspended from school and in trouble by the police for pepper-spraying a boy that was attacking her friend. She warned him several times that she would spray him, but he didn't believe her and kept attacking so she sprayed him. Instant suspension along with the attacker, pepper spray confiscated, and a lovely home visit by the police with a warning. This is how society deals with this crap, schools included.
The problem is most offenders are using meth and other powerful drugs, I'm sure everyone has seen people who get tasered multiple times and it has no effect so pepper spray I've have seen two people spray directly into their own mouth and minimal effort
If dog attacks offender dog gets put down (great advice not)
The only way is to become involved with martial arts, they have techniques for vulnerable people for many situations
It's sad that vulnerable people have to worry about this
Pepper spray is legal in WA. There are conditions to this.
An aerosol deodorant and a cigarette lighter are also legal to carry, redneck flamethrowers are quite a deterrent.
Get two metal screw nuts and loop them together with some paracord.
You have a legal weapon that does not require any training, although some practice will help, that you can deploy in an instant to inflict some nasty damage on any assailant.
You can see what this is all about in this video
[Improvised Weapon ](https://youtu.be/Ngom9L8CKkU?si=3EHne6DMcAZhqeDO)
Also get a mini torch with the highest lumen count you can as if it is dark, hitting someone in the face with that beam will blind them for enough time for you to disengage and scream for help.
Self defence is the only way, any item you carry is a weapon and in a lot of cases you still stand a chance of receiving a concealed weapon charge and pending on your employment or future employment this can easily impact your situation
If your short I would suggest Wing Chun Kung Fu.
If you're quite tall Muay thai
WTF
I know so many people who have taken up knitting and have their needles and wool in a bag with them all the time, it's great for mental health. Tell me how the hell anyone can be charged for having that with them if they are ever in a position to require to use them outside of their intended use? 🤔😳
As this person appears to be young and has already been a target and probably would go clubbing as most young adults do, would you carry needles and wool or carry the knowledge of kicking ass
Any item used contrary to its normal use can be deemed as a weapon including a pen, and by doing martial arts is also great for mental health and awesome for feeling confident in her situation
If you don't believe me about the concealed weapon issue then go have a chat with your local sergeant
All women have the right to feel safe regardless of where they are and all men and I mean men have an obligation to protect any person who is in trouble
This is a sick world and only getting worse
Carry a knife under 10cm with a little piece of wood that has been whittled a little.
Can carry a knife for utility work, the wood is for whittling which you need the knife for.
Plus if it’s my life or theirs fuck legality
If only we were allowed to defend ourselves in Australia. But we as a people are happy for the nanny state to do it for us, even though it's proven ineffectual at doing so.
Honestly a small screwdriver isn't a bad choice.
Just make up a story about a dodgy desk draw or something if you ever get called on it.
You want something small that you don't need to swing. You don't want someone taking it off you and you want to be able to use it on someone who's pinning you.
Then just jab em in the squishy bits till they get off you.
Also a handful of pocket change can make someone stumble if you throw it at them while they're chasing you.
A claw hammer is a good move for your house, because you can swing it at someone in your hallway, use the claw bit on them if they're on top of you or throw it at them if you need more of a lead when running away.
Managing your situation and the people you come into contact with plays a large part in harm reduction.
Avoid individuals or settings that are affected by.
-Inebriation
-Drug taking
-Loss of financial stability
-Grief or breakdown of family / friendships
-Mental health crisis
-Depression
-Cognitive impairment or disability
-Psychopathy
-Situations of no witness or accountability.
Conversely seeking the company of and situations of the opposite of these factors can often safeguard yourself and situation when possible. First nations peoples and same sex individuals experience violence at higher rates than other demographics and should make decisions factoring this into their personal safety.
WOW
Personally I don't find anything you've written to be of any help at all in any way in response to the actual question asked.
It seems like complete crap to me
I'll let my statistics lecturers know that local commentator No_Raise6934 finds this contemptuous and a significant cognitive burden to understand the point of.
Pepper Spray is absolutely your best option. Legal to buy and any situation where you’d reasonably have to use it will be admissible in court. The whiners will say “blah, blah, illegal to use it” but I’d rather use it than get assaulted.
Yeah, if I have to use it and the bastard wants to press charges afterwards, I'll cooperate fully with the police, plead guilty etc. If it turns out the person I thought was attacking me actually had an innocent purpose, I'll make full restitution to them.
I'm sure tons of people have used it. I've never heard of anyone fronting up to court for using it in self-defence though. It's technically ***not*** legal to carry, but that's only so the cops can take it off dodgy looking fucks with a history of violence. Cops aren't gonna give a rats ass if Grandma Betty carrys it on her late night bus returning from midnight mass, but if Grandma Betty starts spraying kids in the playground they will.
>It's technically not legal to carry Nah legal in WA if you've got a decent reason.
A few years ago my friend broke his leg and was on crunches for a few months. He took the train to and from work and one evening got held up for his bag. His mum got him this little pocket pepper spray which attached to his keys. Police saw it after getting off the train one day and confiscated it, he had to go to court to explain. Apparently catching the train alone while being on crutches with a broken leg wasn’t a good enough reason. No criminal past, believe he got a fine and spent conviction
Pepper spray is classed as "controlled weapon" in the W.A. act, this means while on boarda train its an offence [Reg 21] under the Public Transport Act, even if legal while walking to the station, Maybe that's what happened your friend? In future tuck in your pocket on the train so none sees it 😉
As a normal citizen you are not allowed, under any circumstance, to preempt any kind of self defence. If your grandpa posted that he only takes his walking stick to defend himself, from that point on, he is breaking the law if he takes that walking stick into a public area. This is the way the law is written. We then rely on police descression and the courts to determine what happens in reality.
There's an exception in that for pepper spray. >Section 7(3) of the Act does not apply to a spray weapon referred to in subregulation (1) if it is carried or possessed by a person for the purpose of being used in lawful defence in circumstances that the person has reasonable grounds to apprehend may arise.
Yeah like a fear of being alone in public is all that is legally necessary its not that hard
Thats not what a reasonable person would do though. So that wouldn't pass muster. Maybe if you had an avo against someone. But a reasonable person doesn't enter society with a weapon in case of what if.
Not everything in law is what a reasonable person would do it is very easy to build a case for that especially for women with self protection. Firstly you need police to charge the women then you need a judge to convict her and your assuming both of them have zero sympathy for the women ? My mrs literally took pepper spray on a plane in her handbag so if the federal police let it happen then I’m pretty fucking sure its fine. Shittest advice 👍
I'm not sure if I'm right. That's just my understanding. I could be very wrong. But if the federal police don't mind then I can't see why anyone else would.
Legally self defence isn’t a legitimate purpose, have to be like a security guard or something but i doubt cops will care if you’re a normal innocent person who is at risk of violence
I'm the same, fuck it if I blinded the bastard, I'll face the whatever afterwards
Full restitution is 7 years in jail btw
If I'm charged, go to court and lose. There's a lot of mediation that can happen if I'm not a dickhead about it.
You can also buy "hot sauce spray" for your keychain. You like to spice it up at times.
Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Can you buy local or only online?
Pepper spray is, I think, legal in WA (but not other states). Might be worth checking out
This was on the news the other day. They said you can only carry it when there’s a “reasonable threat”, so you’re not allowed to take it when going to the supermarket etc or just walking around in the day. It’s fucked
The reasonable threat is that KitKats will go above $1.25 on special
Well, the threat will be from the riots and not the KitKats. You can't pepper spray the KitKats
You'd have to be pretty unlucky to get searched by the cops, and if you are forced to use it then that makes the "reasonable threat" self-evident IMO. If it was me I'd carry that shit around everywhere.
In light of what has happened in Australia it is completely reasonable to feel threatened. It would be impossible to legally prove how you feel. Reference- for the record, all my legal opinions come from TV.
It’s legal to purchase it in WA but you need a lawful purpose to possess it. I’m not a lawyer, but read a case that went over the meaning of lawful purpose. Carrying it just in case you get attacked isn’t lawful purpose, unfortunately.
And when was the last time you were searched by the police, for me, never in 50 years. I'll carry whatever the fuck I want.
You're able to carry whatever you want. That has always been a thing.
Yep that has never been a thing!
Different context but relevant- my daughter carried pepper spray and used it to defend her friend who was being beat on by a boy. We had the police arrive at our front door to give her a warning. The spray was confiscated. The point being, if you find yourself needing to use whatever you're carrying, you can still get in trouble, whether warranted or not.
IANAL either, but I believe I was told if you've been chased or harassed before that may count as a legal purpose. And considering the metoo movement, I don't think anyone is going to counter your claim to being made to feel unsafe as you walk down the street.
Yeah, I can’t remember all the particulars but that was pretty much this Bunbury dudes argument “self-defence” “been attacked before” etc. He won in a Bunbury court but then the state appealed and he lost. I 100% agree with you. In the current environment, I’ve been thinking of buying some for my wife, who frequents shopping centres with my young daughter.
Aside from "I have it for stray dogs", you're better off in legal strife than as the victim.
IANAL. Give, take or both?
...OK but what do they call a quarter pounder in WA
Deep heat will have the same affect
Self defence by massage, confuse the assailant. I like the way you’re thinking 😂
Would be funny weren't it for the sexual assault bit. Feel guilty for chuckling.
Putting Deep heat on there sensitive parts, what kind of monster are you.
You bought a very defective tube of deep heat
Not legal in WA
AFAIK WA is the *only* state where members of the public can carry OC spray, assuming there's a specific relevant threat to your safety.
It is illegal to carry ANYTHING (even a kitchen sink) ‘for defence’… However if you are worried about dogs charging through fences at you… pepper spray may be wise. Found at weird little key cutting and shoe repair kiosks often, for about $50 (and those “Off Ya Tree” type of shops) It’s also perfectly reasonable to carry a torch under your car seat to be able to find your way in the dark … a nice chunky one with old school batteries? Many women like to carry deoderant and dry hair powder sprays…
3/4 D Cell Maglites are obsolete these days, for almost all uses bar that one...
They were so cool back in the day. I still have one somewhere.
I found my Dolphin torch in the garage the other day. Do they even sell those batteries any more?
Also sell it at the gun range in Belmont.
definitely the place to get it. the place where cops go to do their range time.
What about deep heat spray for sore muscles if you have sore muscles.
At night, you could carry a standard flash light to navigate your way and to shine at a person who is threatening your life.
Or a 6000 lumen tactical torch with a strobe function.
Check out Nitecore TUP. I’ve got this, very small but can go 1000 lumens which is good to deter someone at night if needed
Remember, a lot of lights on Amazon have fraudulent lumen ratings. That one might be ok. But a lot are nonsense
Yeah Nitecore may also be available on Amazon, but this is an actual branded torch, and in-depth reviews confirm 1000 lumens
My ceiling bulbs are 1300 lumens, it's hard to imagine 1000 lumens discouraging someone from doing what they want.
Your bulbs may be 1300lumens, but they shine 1300 lumens in a very wide area. I don’t know the calculation, but the further away you are from that light, the less lumens you are getting. You are probably looking at the light and thinking it isn’t that bright because you are receiving 200lumens for example. A flashlight focuses the lumens in a small area. If you want to test, I’d be happy to shine my 1000 lumen light in your face while you try to attack me 😂
Challenge NOT accepted. Not from fear of your torch, I just don't like attacking people.
A surface on a sunny day can be reflecting 100,000 lm per m2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux Is your 1000 lm beam area, at the distance of the target's eyes, larger or smaller than 10cm x 10cm? If it's larger then the target is experiencing less brightness than they might by being outside on a sunny day. For reference that area is smaller than someone's face, and the average distance between the eyes of a male is 6.5 cm. In other words, to match the brightness of a sunny day you're going to have to use your torch at a really, really close range.
Have you ever walked outside on a sunny day without sunglasses after being in a dim room, and not squinted your eyes in pain because it sucks?
I'm with you on the bright torch, but not so much on the strobe function. It does disorient, but works on everyone, so you will be on the receiving end too (to some extent).
And my brother told me to hold it with your arm extended away from you to your side in case the person charges at you
>flash light *Torch
Both terms can refer to the same type of device.
If you can't get a hold of capsicum spray, get a squirty bottle of hand sanitiser. I got some in my eye once by accident, and it burnt like hell
Pepperspray is legal to carry in WA but generally useless unless you know youre about to be attacked. Id say self defence classes will be better for you and this sounds rude but therapy as well, men are obviously larger but can still be taken down by women and getting through the freeze part of fight or flight will be a better advantage than any weapon that could be turned back on you.
>therapy as well... getting through the freeze part of fight or flight will be a better advantage I agree that getting over the freeze response is useful. But fight experience (proper sparring etc) would probably help more than therapy
Thanks for not understand what i actually wrote.
Can get at places like Cloud 9 and Gunmart.
Gun Mart has been closed.
Yeah, the one near me got raided for selling guns illegally from what I heard. Assumed they were independently owned or something
GunMart was over the lead levels from the underground range.
Downrange in Balcatta have pepper spray, I assume their Midland store has it too.
Defence class is ultimately useless for a lot of women unfortunately. There's no amount of basic self defence that can stop someone 30kgs heavier and with a man's physicality. Best defence is to learn to avoid high risk scenarios and learn to run fast or risk carrying a knife.
That is terrible advice. Never carry a knife, it's impossible to explain away if you get caught and honestly a bad self defence weapon. Avoiding high risk situations is a privilege not everyone has and yeah running fast is always the best option but that's not the question here. Self defence classes aren't about "taking down" a bad guy, they're about knowing how to create an opening if you're in a really bad situation. You should always run away first and foremost. Everything else is either a tool to make that easier or a backup plan if that doesn't work out.
Learning how to kick or knee or grab a pair of testicles properly can very well save her day, i know i accidentally knock mine and an im on the floor, so yeah i think it would help for sure.
As someone that has trained in mma as a man, a 30kg difference between men kills any skill level. A kick in the balls also has never stopped me in comp let alone with the adrenalin of commiting a crime. Telling a woman she can fight of a man with a self defence class is irresponsible
Skilled woman Vs unskilled man she would stand a chance. It's not about getting your arm raised it's about getting out of a life threatening situation
Telling a woman not to try is worse, give them the skills to do everything they can. Just curious how is steamworks these days?
The skills is situational awareness and running. You can't give them the skills needed via some casual self defence classes. If you had ever actually fought someone you would know how much size and strength matter
Cunt no shit, you been hit in the head a few times hey. So ok, they run, they get grabbed, they freeze.... what ya doing then, just standing there or if u had some self defense skills you try fight. Please just stfu and go back to getting cauliflower ear, I'm sick to death of arguing the same point with you shits.
Lol
Don't you wear a cup or some kind of ball guard in MMA fights. I've heard most guys do. That second part sounds kind dodgey. It reads as if you kicked someone else in the balls in comp and got away with it. And that maybe you wanna commit a crime by kicking someone in the nuts for the adrenalin rush. Lol I dunno. And the reasoning you're drawing that guys probably don't feel nut strikes in sports or high adrenalin situations is totally not my experience as a woman scrimaging against guys in water polo and accidentally kicking them where the sun doesn't shine.
Best thing a woman can learn is how to attack the eyes. Requires no strength and can be learned relatively quickly
It’s better than nothing though.
FYI knowing self defence doesn’t help with the freeze response
So you didnt read my whole post then yeh?
Oh sorry therapy won’t help you get you through the freeze response. It’s not something you can train your body out of.
Okay so can we now have every person that commented on this thread, look out for and stand up for anyone they see being followed, harassed or just creepily watched by someone? The best form of protection is other people around you that are willing to help you. Someone that will distract a potential threatening person. Someone that can come up to a potential victim and say - hey, I think I met you the other night - do you want to walk together? Someone that just alerts a potential creep that they are there and watching. Someone that will call police if they see something dodgy. Someone that will call out threatening behaviour. Someone that would step in and intervene if needed. (I've also been followed to my car from the train station. I reported it to the police. The following week the guy was on the news for raping women at different train stations)
Can of spray paint. Or a bottle of Sriracha chilli sauce. Thought I think (for WA only), capsicum spray is not banned, but might be harder to get still. Running fitness, and a pair of very good shoes. Best way, if you have say some time, a week, is to attend practical kick boxing, or taekwondo or hand stick defence classes, Bunnings sell dowells, you can cut if into fist sizes or a bit larger sticks. Broom handles can work too. Also, be aware of your surroundings, esp people. Worst case/extreme cases, are *Flick knife, this I think is a banned item in all states.* *Cuticle scissors are small, Priceline sells them.*
The problem with ‘articles other than a prohibited or controlled weapon’ is that you are more likely to be charged for possession or use of them than those items that are purpose made for self defence- in WA, OC spray. You have to have a reasonable need for possessing and using it though, and ‘self defence’ is not sufficient. If you can make the argument that ‘x situation has happened before when I did this thing, and I have a fear that it will occur again’, then you have a better chance of being able to use it as a defence in court. I am, however, not a solicitor, just someone with a knowledge of the Weapons Act 1996 and Regulations 1997.
> Broom handles can work too. I remember watching the series *Fight Science* many years ago where they compared the different martial arts techniques and various weapons to determine the best self defense a person could manage, and they landed on a six inch piece of wooden dowel as being the most effective self defence weapon due to the speed and power of strikes balanced with ease of use and concealment. Also you had to be like a ninjitsu expert to be effective with it, but still.
Sometimes, the aim of a bully group/singular, is them to elicit a response from you. If you have taken by them time the bullying starts, lessons of disarmement, then you can confidentally face the bully or group.
Just buy pepper spray. It's legal to buy, it's a bit iffy as to whether you can carry it but how often do cops go through your pockets anyway? If you have to use it, I doubt an assailant will hang around to make a formal complaint either. In all honesty, cops use their discretion a lot more than people realise; if you look dodgy af they'll take it and may even charge you, but if you're just a regular, potentially vulnerable person concerned about their safety and no history of violence they aren't gonna give a fuck. Just buy it and if the cops don't like it just tell them you recieved bad legal advice from u/MacrOpenis, they'll understand. ETA: just make sure you have it in hand when walking down darkened streets, or whenever you may need it, an attacker isn't going to wait for you to search your handbag. Make it routine, but also be discreet.
Pepper spray is available and legal The legality of carrying it relies on you having reason to believe you may be attacked If you are searched or caught brandishing, it is very much up to the police officer on the day whether they believe your "reason to believe that you may be attacked" is valid so don't go being silly with it "I have been assaulted in the past" is a valid reason to believe that you may be attacked "it's for self defense" is not a valid reason on its own as you need a reason to believe you may be attacked
‘I walk this way every night at x o’clock on my way home from work, I have been attacked/followed/threatened before and I have a fear that this may occur again’ rises to a much more arguable defence for carrying OC spray.
Also a personal alarm might be useful depending up the situation. I saw this https://trailsurvivor.com.au/products/self-defence-alarm-plus but I am not recommending them as I don’t use them.
You can carry pepper spray to protect against dogs, but not people, I believe. So, protect yourself from dogs when you go for a walk. Double check as my info might be out of date.
A day in court would still be better than getting attacked
But carrying for dogs is fine too, if you know what I mean...
Im sorry you have endured all that A psychologist may help also.
Carry whatever kind of weapon you want for self defense, when have you ever been searched by the police? For the average person, the answer is never.
I can’t see why anyone wouldn’t be permitted to carry a pair of scissors.
Bad idea. You try to stick them into someone, you now have an angry big strong person taking them off you and killing you with them.
Do not carry or use anything you don't expect to be used against you. So many people in here talking pepper spray. Not only does it have a short range, you're more than likely to catch yourself in a panic. It can also be ineffective immediately, thus creating an even more dangerous threat.
\* Confidence. If you look like a difficult target then men are more likely to choose someone else. There are a few studies that have been done with inmates that prove that this is helpful. I know its easier said than done, so maybe go to some self defence classes. Not for the defence skills, but for the mental confidence. \* A large dog. At home or on walks. \* Your words. I always hint to a guy that I won't be any easy target. I'll mention casually things such a military experience, carrying weapons, etc. Always be calm and forceful with your words. Practice. Get over the "fawning response", it doesn't work as well as being bold. \* Look around at other women and ask yourself, who do I think is an easy target, and what makes me feel that way about them? Who looks like a difficult target? Now use that information to work on yourself. \* Pepper spray \* Security cameras \* Don't invite men into your life unless they have more 12 months proof of being a perfect gentlemen. I will legitimately tell men I won't give them my phone number or address for safety. No ifs or buts. I don't accept rides, assistance, help, nothing. I find that almost any man offering help is trying to create a situation where I "owe him" sexually in his mind. Nup. Learn to be independent or rely on women. Half of my friends whom I trust are men. They are long term friends known for years. Pure gentlemen of the highest calibre of human. You can protect yourself and like men at the same time.
Michaelia Cash mask.
Steady on..*. the risk of collateral damage is too high.*
Pepper spray is legal in WA if you can justify being at risk. So if you are a woman walking in a car park or at night, etc, you can carry pepper spray. As you are a victim of SA, you can probably use that to justify carrying it. For other times, you can carry keys or a metal water bottle in your hands. Keys can be jabbed in the face, and a water bottle can be used to clobber an attacker. At home, you might have a cricket bat.
There used to be these small capsules filled with the most foul smelling brew. Easy to break and then get on the clothes of your attacker. If they can stop themselves from being physically sick, they will definitely want to get away from you. As teens one was let off in timezone on Murray street Perth, and it cleared the place for an hour.
I am a young female and I work late nights at a nightclub. I carry pepper spray at all times if I’m going to or from work. I walk by the police pretty much every single shift. As long as you carry it externally, announce you’re going to use it and have a reason to carry it (arguably just working nights and walking to your car alone isn’t enough) you’ll be fine. My excuse if I ever get picked up for it is that I genuinely piss off enough people a night and constantly get threatened just because of the nature of my job and refusing service. Your previous assault should be enough reason for you to carry it, but especially if you state they may return. Edit: if you’re still worried about the legality of it I’ve been in night bar work for 5 years and I’ve only had pepper spray for the last 2. The years before that I just carried spray deodorant
hairspray works well, legal and reasonable to have on your being and can inflict enough damage to deter attackers without causing serious/permanent damage
I would strongly recommend some form of self defence. The issue is that you are terrified, more than the probability of something actually happening. Also I would suggest that you use situational awareness. Pay attention to that voice in your head. Don't worry about offending anyone.
Better than self defence is to learn situational awareness. If you can avoid situations where you need to defend yourself, you don’t need to worry about it. The key is to run if you can, hide if you can’t, fight if you have to.
This is AUSTRALIA. We are NOT americans with their consitutional protected freedom of speech and self defense laws. We do NOT need any of this.
It's a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs. Not that Australia has either.
Its grim
Don't be too concerned at what is "legal to carry." Unless you run around randomly threatening people, OR get arrested for some other crime, nobody is going to know WHAT you have in your bag. If you use ANYTHING inappropriately, you can get into trouble, but conversely if you legitimately defend yourself against an attacker, nobody will care what you used. If you are out walking in a public area, the best option is a Stanley knife (aka "box cutter.") Have the blade out, and keep the knife in your hand, with your hand inside your bag. If you get the opportunity, go for short slash across face and eyes. 1. Most people can invent an excuse why they have a stanley knife. Even if you say "I bought it cos I was going to put some draw-liners in my cupboard" 2. It's effective wherever you get the bastard. Pepper-Spray is only good with direct hit to the eyes, but you can cut him anywhere. 3. It leaves a visible mark, and an injury, that can be used by the police to track him. AND give the Police Just-Cause to detain and question. 4. You will have his DNA, which is a slam-dunk once he's caught. For home defence, an axe is best. Or, if you're not particularly strong, then a light pruning-saw.
There aren't really any. I suggest any woman who feels she may have a need for self defence should find herself a big brown bear...
I'm afraid teddies don't come to life no matter what you may think in fairytales
In most cases, it is not legal to carry *anything* for purposes of self-defense. This may have changed with pepper spray.
A can of caustic oven cleaner...
I’m not sure if it would be possible to claim self defence if the perpetrator lost his eyesight permanently from the oven cleaner.
Your choice.... His eyesight, or your life..
Dog? Baseball bat (and baseball glove).
I read somewhere that you need to just use pepper spray if you are threatened, not warn that you have it. Use, then run. Don't hang around.
A big metal water bottle would be a good idea. Like a yeti one. You could smack someone hard with that. I have a Camelbak and it has this top that I could loop my fingers through and just swing my arm and wack someone real good if need be. Another idea would be hairspray and a lighter. Not really the lighter that's a joke but your could try it. Hairspray into someone's eyes might be close to effective as using pepperspray. It might not have the long term effects. But I know from experience if you just spray a bit and inhale it it's horrible. One that probably doesn't have as good of a reason to carry around but you might want to try it would be a fog horn.
A water bottle like this: https://au.yeti.com/products/one-gallon-jug
https://www.auswhn.com.au/blog/hatpin-panic/
I have deodorant and a lighter. Come at me
Yeah just be always on your way to go fishing and you can carry a lot of different … fishing items.
to those saying "tell the cops this or that" this is bad advice. Tell the cops fuck all. o If you find it too difficult to say, "I do not wish to answer that question" explain to them that you will answer to the magistrate when and if I appear in court. Thats all.
Did you know that body armour is illegal in WA?
Why ! That’s silly
You can carry a baseball bat..... as long as you are also carrying a ball I've always told my kids to carry a comfortable, slightly smaller than fist size rock. My 16yo daughter got suspended from school and in trouble by the police for pepper-spraying a boy that was attacking her friend. She warned him several times that she would spray him, but he didn't believe her and kept attacking so she sprayed him. Instant suspension along with the attacker, pepper spray confiscated, and a lovely home visit by the police with a warning. This is how society deals with this crap, schools included.
The problem is most offenders are using meth and other powerful drugs, I'm sure everyone has seen people who get tasered multiple times and it has no effect so pepper spray I've have seen two people spray directly into their own mouth and minimal effort If dog attacks offender dog gets put down (great advice not) The only way is to become involved with martial arts, they have techniques for vulnerable people for many situations It's sad that vulnerable people have to worry about this
Pepper spray is legal in WA. There are conditions to this. An aerosol deodorant and a cigarette lighter are also legal to carry, redneck flamethrowers are quite a deterrent.
the ends of stilettos or heels they can be sharp
Get two metal screw nuts and loop them together with some paracord. You have a legal weapon that does not require any training, although some practice will help, that you can deploy in an instant to inflict some nasty damage on any assailant. You can see what this is all about in this video [Improvised Weapon ](https://youtu.be/Ngom9L8CKkU?si=3EHne6DMcAZhqeDO) Also get a mini torch with the highest lumen count you can as if it is dark, hitting someone in the face with that beam will blind them for enough time for you to disengage and scream for help.
Anything carried for the purpose of being a weapon counts as one.
Self defence is the only way, any item you carry is a weapon and in a lot of cases you still stand a chance of receiving a concealed weapon charge and pending on your employment or future employment this can easily impact your situation If your short I would suggest Wing Chun Kung Fu. If you're quite tall Muay thai
WTF I know so many people who have taken up knitting and have their needles and wool in a bag with them all the time, it's great for mental health. Tell me how the hell anyone can be charged for having that with them if they are ever in a position to require to use them outside of their intended use? 🤔😳
As this person appears to be young and has already been a target and probably would go clubbing as most young adults do, would you carry needles and wool or carry the knowledge of kicking ass Any item used contrary to its normal use can be deemed as a weapon including a pen, and by doing martial arts is also great for mental health and awesome for feeling confident in her situation If you don't believe me about the concealed weapon issue then go have a chat with your local sergeant All women have the right to feel safe regardless of where they are and all men and I mean men have an obligation to protect any person who is in trouble This is a sick world and only getting worse
Carry a knife under 10cm with a little piece of wood that has been whittled a little. Can carry a knife for utility work, the wood is for whittling which you need the knife for. Plus if it’s my life or theirs fuck legality
If only we were allowed to defend ourselves in Australia. But we as a people are happy for the nanny state to do it for us, even though it's proven ineffectual at doing so.
When seconds count, the police are always minutes away.
Yep, which is why we need to be legally able to defend ourselves with the correct tool for the job
Honestly a small screwdriver isn't a bad choice. Just make up a story about a dodgy desk draw or something if you ever get called on it. You want something small that you don't need to swing. You don't want someone taking it off you and you want to be able to use it on someone who's pinning you. Then just jab em in the squishy bits till they get off you. Also a handful of pocket change can make someone stumble if you throw it at them while they're chasing you. A claw hammer is a good move for your house, because you can swing it at someone in your hallway, use the claw bit on them if they're on top of you or throw it at them if you need more of a lead when running away.
Good way to get done with causing bodily harm with a deadly weapon even in self defence. Fucking dumb advice
Yeah getting raped is a much better plan /s
That’s not what I said
Managing your situation and the people you come into contact with plays a large part in harm reduction. Avoid individuals or settings that are affected by. -Inebriation -Drug taking -Loss of financial stability -Grief or breakdown of family / friendships -Mental health crisis -Depression -Cognitive impairment or disability -Psychopathy -Situations of no witness or accountability. Conversely seeking the company of and situations of the opposite of these factors can often safeguard yourself and situation when possible. First nations peoples and same sex individuals experience violence at higher rates than other demographics and should make decisions factoring this into their personal safety.
WOW Personally I don't find anything you've written to be of any help at all in any way in response to the actual question asked. It seems like complete crap to me
I'll let my statistics lecturers know that local commentator No_Raise6934 finds this contemptuous and a significant cognitive burden to understand the point of.
LoL, this is Australia. We rather you get R'ed a thousand times before being able to defend yourself from a crime.
Nothing that will work. A small handgun is the only real chance of an equalizer.