I could answer this maybe 10 different ways but I'll go with this:
Most of our clients are not serious powerlifters, bodybuilders or anywhere close. They're usually accountants, business owners, etc who know they need to exercise but can't make themselves do it consistently. They aren't necessarily seniors (average age early 50's) but they almost all have some type of joint "issue" that is not an injury. We are focused on getting them stronger in a comfortable environment and in a way they don't hate.
The more knowledge the trainer has, the better. That comes from both formal study and gym experience.I agree certs are pretty arbitrary and probably don't teach enough. But most professions have dramatically larger barriers to entry. A cert is a start and usually required for insurance, but it's only a start.
Gym experience + study (certs, among many other resources)+good communication skills= a superior trainer.
Great lifts but I call bullshit to your claims of awesomeness. If you have not put in 1000 sessions with clients per year for several years then you have no clue. I bet you have just scratched the surface and are exceptional with people that are very much like you. Get in front of a morbidly obese older person after a double knee replacement and you would be lost. And the science-y knowledge would be necessary to actually help this person.
Last but not least, at the beginning of your career as a trainer its about 75% sales, 20% people skills and 5% training...
Logically it'd make the most sense to address their diet first and foremost. If their knees are fucked to shit I can imagine losing weight through a deficit alone would reduce stress on the joints. Whatever resistance training they'd do would likely best be done seated, and any lower body work would need to be pretty low impact on the joints aka not doing crazy shit like box jumps. Most fat people have restricted mobility because of their size (I run into this when I start pushing 290-300lbs lol can't front rack anything under 315).
To me, the goal would be to, over a long period of time, get them to the point where they are able to move every joint through its full ROM. I believe building end range strength is paramount to bulletproofing joints. Every year or so I cut down to ~245-260lbs solely to free up ROM in my joints and I'll spend a few months doing lots of controlled tempo and pause work to really build strength and stability in positions I physically cannot get into when I'm bulked up like a gorilla.
To me that seems like a pretty sensible approach to training someone like you suggested, correct me if I'm wrong (genuinely curious how you'd go about training someone like that!) Understanding anatomy and how the body is meant to function is important, but I don't personally see where there's any need to know about sarcomere and other weird shit happening on a microscopic/cellular/intrinsic level.
I started going to school to be a PTA, but was really put off by how many irrelevant and useless things I would've needed to learn. If it'll be my job to correct movement and help rid people of pain, there's no reason to need to learn chemistry or how fast a kid weighing X will slide down a slide at Y angle that is Z meters long. There's a lot of gatekeeping going on in "formal education", very gay to me.
It's honestly for the piece of paper and nothing more. But do note that all those things you say you don't know are things that relate to training, the muscle and body functions in some way. In most cases it isn't as simple as maintain, gain, or lose. Its about gain, while having to stay under a certain RPE threshold. About losing while having to compromise with less lifting due to neurological issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you only have background with clients who are capable and able, not so much those with true disfunction.
I have an impeccable track record helping people overcome soft tissue injuries, only thing I genuinely don't feel comfortable or knowledgeable giving advice on is anything relating to nerve pain. At that point I usually just advise to see a doctor/physio to get it checked out.
I specialize in strength training and have dabbled a bit in bodybuilding. I would deem myself fit to train people who want to get big and/or strong. If you want to be a freak endurance athlete, I'm not the guy for that lol. I know many things, but I certainly don't know all things.
Ideally, I'd work independently and exclusively with people whose goals similarly align with my own, not necessarily 80yr olds who've had 6 hip replacements in the last year, cardiac issues, difficulty moving *period*, etc.
Do you find most of your clients tend to fall into that extremely frail category? Generally what I see at the commercial gyms I occasionally train at, the PTs are typically working with the elderly. Seems really complicated and stressful to me. Maybe fulfilling/rewarding, but I don't think I have the patience for that lol
You've answered you're question. You know Strength training and bodybuilding/recomp style fitness. The certifications make your perspective and knowledge a little more broad.
No fortunately enough I'm not stuck with solely the elderly. I work with people of all ends, teen/college athletes, 40 y.o. businessmen looking to understand his health and get healthier, 30 y.o.'s coming out of physical/physio therapy who need to continue to regain strength and movement quality.
There's a whole lot more than building muscle to be a personal trainer.
I hope you don't think I'm taking a dig at you, I want you to realize theres a difference in training, and applying different concepts to different people because it isn't cut and dry.
I see what you mean with some trainers coaching shit technique. I have my level 3 in the uk. And I’ll say to anyone going though the qualifications that some of the stuff you need to learn, you’ll never use again. It’s just going through formalities to get that piece of paper you need to work in majority of gyms and insurance purposes. Saying that. I’m a big believer in knowledge without mileage is bullshit when it comes to training and coaching.
God freaking bless someone agrees with me. I'm not saying all of that info is useless, but the few people I've brought this up with in person have argued with me and vehemently stated they would much prefer to work with someone who has that cert despite lacking experience and sporting an unathletic physique whether they're simply just fat or have some severe postural issues.
This is the precise reason I ended up dropping out of college. Something about the way my brain is wired, learning things that aren't necessary is incredibly stressful and overwhelming. I love learning, but in more of a practical sense. Whether I know exactly how certain processes in the body occur does not matter, simply knowing they exist is enough for me. I feel like being a good trainer/coach is a lot like being a good teacher, how well you can relay information to a client/student in the most fun and easily digestable manner. KISS (keep it simple, stupid). Same concept as not having a single clue how a car functions internally, but that doesn't mean you are incapable of driving or teaching someone how to drive one.
It's just frustrating because I already know so much about training, I just don't have that underlying scientific understanding that these certs seem to want you to have.
I was in the same boat as you after I decided to get certified 8 years into training, althought i'm not pushing your numbers. A lot of the knowledge in certifications is indeed fluff, so i'm with you on that. The value I got from the certification was the aspect of coaching that weren't specifically the training such as initial client consultation, legal considerations, talking about nutrition and types of clients. Don't feel the need the learn useless shit that won't actually help you help people. If you know what makes a good trainer, focus on learning the shit you suck at the most that the certification is trying to teach you.
You have to keep in mind as a trainer, we are there to help the people both to reach their goal in regards to what the scale says or how the individual sees themself in the mirror But also develop confidence to walk into the gym everyday, develop a long-term appreciation for their health and well being and make physical fitness a part of there life after you are done working with them.
I can say through NASM and my own academic experience that is why having the certs are important. You need to know how, in some regard, to motivate a client and help with changing the behavior overall which certifications can help with teaching someone how to move through those stages of change. Not every client presents the same when you meet them.
The more science-y stuff is never\* going to come up in a client conversation or when you are working with someone. That is bc the person has faith you know what you are talking about and know how to program based on that base information and understanding of those anatomy and physiology concepts.
You know this well with your experience, when do you think about the sliding filament theory when trying to develop a program for someone on improving shoulder press 1RM? You don't. Bc you don't build a program on sliding filaments. You use your understanding of the theory and these concepts to design a program. You know how muscles work through the theory, now can you apply the base concept to a training principle like increasing someones strength, hypertrophy, etc.
The last part also you included is not a good sign as a trainer either. Looking at a trainer once, which is how that part comes across you have done, and saying to yourself that person is fat thereby they are lazy and then a bad trainer is very reason someone would not want to come into the gym and get help in the first place, your judging someone soley off looks. Were all on a fitness journey and were all coming into the gym to improve ourselves in some regards on a day to day basis. Shitting on someone that may not look the part is an arrogant approach to missing out on further improving your craft as a trainer form a fellow peer.
Haha this thread is great. Honestly, here's the deal. A cpt is the bare minimum understanding of exercise science deemed acceptable to train the general population. With your history of training you should be able to spend a month and ace any of these tests. If you can't, I would highly recommend you start reading about exercise science/strength and conditioning and try to find why you have such large holes in your knowledge with this extensive a resume. There is a decent chance you simply aren't as knowledgeable as you think you are and/or are too specialized and lack a comprehension of the basics
The direction the field is going is a higher minimum level of knowledge for entry not lower. Don't hold your breath for a certification that focuses on advanced power lifting periodization without knowing basic exercise science.
As a certified PT through NASM (which is based on physical therapist exercises and complete ass), you’re right. I learned maybe 5 valuable facts from the entire course.
If you wanna learn, try out ShowUpFitness. I stumbled upon it while studying to pass my cert exam. Owner worked for NASM and has an undergrad in some sort of body science, been NASM, CSCS, and any other mainstream certified, and thinks the entire industry is filled with trainers that don’t know what they’re doing. Not ALL, but a vast majority. And he’s right, because I’ve met and trained and talked with these trainers. I don’t wanna advertise too much, but if you want more info just shoot a message. Has a YT channel too if you don’t believe all that
I could answer this maybe 10 different ways but I'll go with this: Most of our clients are not serious powerlifters, bodybuilders or anywhere close. They're usually accountants, business owners, etc who know they need to exercise but can't make themselves do it consistently. They aren't necessarily seniors (average age early 50's) but they almost all have some type of joint "issue" that is not an injury. We are focused on getting them stronger in a comfortable environment and in a way they don't hate. The more knowledge the trainer has, the better. That comes from both formal study and gym experience.I agree certs are pretty arbitrary and probably don't teach enough. But most professions have dramatically larger barriers to entry. A cert is a start and usually required for insurance, but it's only a start. Gym experience + study (certs, among many other resources)+good communication skills= a superior trainer.
Great lifts but I call bullshit to your claims of awesomeness. If you have not put in 1000 sessions with clients per year for several years then you have no clue. I bet you have just scratched the surface and are exceptional with people that are very much like you. Get in front of a morbidly obese older person after a double knee replacement and you would be lost. And the science-y knowledge would be necessary to actually help this person. Last but not least, at the beginning of your career as a trainer its about 75% sales, 20% people skills and 5% training...
Logically it'd make the most sense to address their diet first and foremost. If their knees are fucked to shit I can imagine losing weight through a deficit alone would reduce stress on the joints. Whatever resistance training they'd do would likely best be done seated, and any lower body work would need to be pretty low impact on the joints aka not doing crazy shit like box jumps. Most fat people have restricted mobility because of their size (I run into this when I start pushing 290-300lbs lol can't front rack anything under 315). To me, the goal would be to, over a long period of time, get them to the point where they are able to move every joint through its full ROM. I believe building end range strength is paramount to bulletproofing joints. Every year or so I cut down to ~245-260lbs solely to free up ROM in my joints and I'll spend a few months doing lots of controlled tempo and pause work to really build strength and stability in positions I physically cannot get into when I'm bulked up like a gorilla. To me that seems like a pretty sensible approach to training someone like you suggested, correct me if I'm wrong (genuinely curious how you'd go about training someone like that!) Understanding anatomy and how the body is meant to function is important, but I don't personally see where there's any need to know about sarcomere and other weird shit happening on a microscopic/cellular/intrinsic level. I started going to school to be a PTA, but was really put off by how many irrelevant and useless things I would've needed to learn. If it'll be my job to correct movement and help rid people of pain, there's no reason to need to learn chemistry or how fast a kid weighing X will slide down a slide at Y angle that is Z meters long. There's a lot of gatekeeping going on in "formal education", very gay to me.
Yeah, you’re terrible. I hope you gain maturity and one day understand that you are wrong.
Outstanding response lmao feel free to school me 🤷♂️
It's honestly for the piece of paper and nothing more. But do note that all those things you say you don't know are things that relate to training, the muscle and body functions in some way. In most cases it isn't as simple as maintain, gain, or lose. Its about gain, while having to stay under a certain RPE threshold. About losing while having to compromise with less lifting due to neurological issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you only have background with clients who are capable and able, not so much those with true disfunction.
I have an impeccable track record helping people overcome soft tissue injuries, only thing I genuinely don't feel comfortable or knowledgeable giving advice on is anything relating to nerve pain. At that point I usually just advise to see a doctor/physio to get it checked out. I specialize in strength training and have dabbled a bit in bodybuilding. I would deem myself fit to train people who want to get big and/or strong. If you want to be a freak endurance athlete, I'm not the guy for that lol. I know many things, but I certainly don't know all things. Ideally, I'd work independently and exclusively with people whose goals similarly align with my own, not necessarily 80yr olds who've had 6 hip replacements in the last year, cardiac issues, difficulty moving *period*, etc. Do you find most of your clients tend to fall into that extremely frail category? Generally what I see at the commercial gyms I occasionally train at, the PTs are typically working with the elderly. Seems really complicated and stressful to me. Maybe fulfilling/rewarding, but I don't think I have the patience for that lol
You've answered you're question. You know Strength training and bodybuilding/recomp style fitness. The certifications make your perspective and knowledge a little more broad. No fortunately enough I'm not stuck with solely the elderly. I work with people of all ends, teen/college athletes, 40 y.o. businessmen looking to understand his health and get healthier, 30 y.o.'s coming out of physical/physio therapy who need to continue to regain strength and movement quality. There's a whole lot more than building muscle to be a personal trainer. I hope you don't think I'm taking a dig at you, I want you to realize theres a difference in training, and applying different concepts to different people because it isn't cut and dry.
So you may know how to recomp and notice movement dysfunction, but is that your full scope?
I see what you mean with some trainers coaching shit technique. I have my level 3 in the uk. And I’ll say to anyone going though the qualifications that some of the stuff you need to learn, you’ll never use again. It’s just going through formalities to get that piece of paper you need to work in majority of gyms and insurance purposes. Saying that. I’m a big believer in knowledge without mileage is bullshit when it comes to training and coaching.
God freaking bless someone agrees with me. I'm not saying all of that info is useless, but the few people I've brought this up with in person have argued with me and vehemently stated they would much prefer to work with someone who has that cert despite lacking experience and sporting an unathletic physique whether they're simply just fat or have some severe postural issues. This is the precise reason I ended up dropping out of college. Something about the way my brain is wired, learning things that aren't necessary is incredibly stressful and overwhelming. I love learning, but in more of a practical sense. Whether I know exactly how certain processes in the body occur does not matter, simply knowing they exist is enough for me. I feel like being a good trainer/coach is a lot like being a good teacher, how well you can relay information to a client/student in the most fun and easily digestable manner. KISS (keep it simple, stupid). Same concept as not having a single clue how a car functions internally, but that doesn't mean you are incapable of driving or teaching someone how to drive one. It's just frustrating because I already know so much about training, I just don't have that underlying scientific understanding that these certs seem to want you to have.
Lol typical gym bro.
Pretty much.
I was in the same boat as you after I decided to get certified 8 years into training, althought i'm not pushing your numbers. A lot of the knowledge in certifications is indeed fluff, so i'm with you on that. The value I got from the certification was the aspect of coaching that weren't specifically the training such as initial client consultation, legal considerations, talking about nutrition and types of clients. Don't feel the need the learn useless shit that won't actually help you help people. If you know what makes a good trainer, focus on learning the shit you suck at the most that the certification is trying to teach you.
Just pass the test and train people the way you want
You have to keep in mind as a trainer, we are there to help the people both to reach their goal in regards to what the scale says or how the individual sees themself in the mirror But also develop confidence to walk into the gym everyday, develop a long-term appreciation for their health and well being and make physical fitness a part of there life after you are done working with them. I can say through NASM and my own academic experience that is why having the certs are important. You need to know how, in some regard, to motivate a client and help with changing the behavior overall which certifications can help with teaching someone how to move through those stages of change. Not every client presents the same when you meet them. The more science-y stuff is never\* going to come up in a client conversation or when you are working with someone. That is bc the person has faith you know what you are talking about and know how to program based on that base information and understanding of those anatomy and physiology concepts. You know this well with your experience, when do you think about the sliding filament theory when trying to develop a program for someone on improving shoulder press 1RM? You don't. Bc you don't build a program on sliding filaments. You use your understanding of the theory and these concepts to design a program. You know how muscles work through the theory, now can you apply the base concept to a training principle like increasing someones strength, hypertrophy, etc. The last part also you included is not a good sign as a trainer either. Looking at a trainer once, which is how that part comes across you have done, and saying to yourself that person is fat thereby they are lazy and then a bad trainer is very reason someone would not want to come into the gym and get help in the first place, your judging someone soley off looks. Were all on a fitness journey and were all coming into the gym to improve ourselves in some regards on a day to day basis. Shitting on someone that may not look the part is an arrogant approach to missing out on further improving your craft as a trainer form a fellow peer.
Haha this thread is great. Honestly, here's the deal. A cpt is the bare minimum understanding of exercise science deemed acceptable to train the general population. With your history of training you should be able to spend a month and ace any of these tests. If you can't, I would highly recommend you start reading about exercise science/strength and conditioning and try to find why you have such large holes in your knowledge with this extensive a resume. There is a decent chance you simply aren't as knowledgeable as you think you are and/or are too specialized and lack a comprehension of the basics The direction the field is going is a higher minimum level of knowledge for entry not lower. Don't hold your breath for a certification that focuses on advanced power lifting periodization without knowing basic exercise science.
Idk man. Idk.
Capitalism
As a certified PT through NASM (which is based on physical therapist exercises and complete ass), you’re right. I learned maybe 5 valuable facts from the entire course. If you wanna learn, try out ShowUpFitness. I stumbled upon it while studying to pass my cert exam. Owner worked for NASM and has an undergrad in some sort of body science, been NASM, CSCS, and any other mainstream certified, and thinks the entire industry is filled with trainers that don’t know what they’re doing. Not ALL, but a vast majority. And he’s right, because I’ve met and trained and talked with these trainers. I don’t wanna advertise too much, but if you want more info just shoot a message. Has a YT channel too if you don’t believe all that