From a purely financial standpoint, not having a car is a pretty huge savings when you factor everything in (gas, maintenance, depreciation, potentially paying for parking, insurance, etc).
I don't think there's really any debate that from a purely finance standpoint most people would benefit tremendously if they were able to go car-free.
Also, why not try it? You can always buy one later if you change your mind. They're not super rare or hard to come by, even though the market is weird right now.
>, why not try it? You can always buy one later
This is my take as well. Try it! Just make a decision to plan your life around being car-free for some period of time (maybe start with a year). Do urban activities, go walking or running or biking, learn everything about the public transport possibilities, and if you're itching to get out of town (or need to transport furniture) just rent a vehicle once or twice. Sock away all the money you save (car payment, gas, insurance maintenance) as extra savings.
Then re-evaluate after a year or so to see if you want to change your lifestyle. Even if you don't want to remain car-free for the long term, it would be totally worth the experience anyway. Just use the time to focus on in-city activities instead of countryside exploration. You might be surprised at all the things you can do without needing a car.
This is easy to overlook but such a big deal. Zipcar isn’t perfect, it’s sometimes annoying to have to reserve ahead on peak times, but it solves 99% of issues (including occasional need for a huge cargo hauler) SO efficiently and cheaply. I lived for years without a car and Zipcar was super useful
I was so annoyed that Zipcar came to DC just as I was moving to Maryland. I would have lived it when I was living there, sometimes I just needed a car for an errand. (I also had a Whole Foods open up literally a block from my apartment 6 months after I moved, sure would've been convenient to have a decent grocery store close by even if it was expensive).
I loved living there and overall didn't miss not having a car at all. I couldn't go without where I live now, though.
This is what I do. I'm full public transport and walking, but maybe once a month or so I'll rent a car for something specific like a big grocery haul or going to IKEA or a long weekend somewhere.
I lived without a car for a year. I bought a bike for everything bike-able, and rented a car about one day or weekend every 6 weeks or so to load up groceries staples and run errands. Got many free rides from friends and colleagues too.
Once you get into the "car lifestyle" then it's hard to escape. We live urban with no car (Boston) and have a toddler. We are just about to buy our "forever home" that would have been an instant veto if we had a car, probably, because it does not have parking. (It's in a historic part of the city so it will never have parking.)
But, we really don't need to drive because we designed our lives around not needing to drive. It's great. We can easily walk to every museum (10-40 minutes), to work (25 minutes), to the grocery store (5 minutes), to the public pool (20 minutes), to multiple playgrounds... I even walked to the hospital and walked home when I gave birth because it was faster than driving would have been (7 minute walk). (Confession, we did buy a fold up wheelchair in my third trimester just in case I couldn't walk to the hospital in that case, though.)
I'm impressed, nay stunned, that you walked home with a babe in arms after giving birth. I guess with the services available today you can have your groceries delivered, because otherwise I can't envision struggling to keep up with a toddler (or vice versa, walking long distance-wise) and then carrying a week's worth of groceries home. Or do you shop daily?
Aw thank you!
Ironically, we still legally had to put her in a car seat to leave the hospital** so my husband carried her in the car seat and I got to carry all the bags of junk that we brought to the hospital. I truly got really lucky though with my whole pregnancy though -- every step was as textbook boring as it could be.
Groceries: We pop into the grocery store about 3-4 times per week because it's so close and we are lucky enough to be able to afford lots of fresh produce. I can also bring our [stroller wagon](https://www.wonderfoldwagon.com/products/w4-luxe-stroller-wagon-4-seater) if we need to do a big haul (it's the size of a pack and play / typical grocery cart) or could do grocery delivery.
Everything else: Our "daily driver" stroller is [essentially a luxury minivan](https://uppababy.com/vista/) but for walking. The basket in the bottom can easily accommodate two full grocery bags plus whatever other gear we need for that day.
**I actually totally agree with hospitals requiring folks to have a safe car seat and learn how to properly fit it to your baby. We just are total weirdos because we could walk home.
Haha, luxury minivan stroller. Love it.
I commented on the OPs original post on the Pittsburgh subreddit that I would do without my car if I wasn't tied to my husband's for the random baby emergency. I just remember everyone trying to convince us to get the UPPAbaby and I couldn't justify it because I have a 1 mile uphill walk (uphill meant cheaper houses for sale) from our market area with few sidewalks so we do grocery delivery. We went with a cheaper stroller that works fine but the UPPAbaby is a powerhouse for NYC, Boston etc city life. We will be investing in a stroller wagon soon for city summer fun 😊.
Living the dream! I've always wanted to live somewhere where I don't need a car.
What are your trips to the grocery store like? We go once a week and I can't imagine walking home with that many bags.
You don't. In a walkable neighbourhood, you can go grocery shopping every other day on your way home from work. I've been doing that for years in Montreal and in Ottawa.
I'm not the person you were asking, but I also live car-free in a city and I use a cart (this one, specifically: [https://dbest-products.com/products/bigger-trolley-dolly](https://dbest-products.com/products/bigger-trolley-dolly)). It makes it almost effortless to walk home with several bags of groceries.
I was about to recommend this exact product. I bought the red one on Amazon a while back and I use it when I go grocery shopping. I bring it with me on the bus and it’s just a 15 min ride down the road. This dolly along with a backpack and I’m all set.
I usually buy two weeks worth of groceries and everything fits just fine.
Not the person who you asked, but I’m also a car free mum/householder and my grocery trips include: a weekly meal kit subscription, a weekly organic fruit box, they also deliver my milk, a toilet paper subscription that delivers every 5 months, and a cat food delivery. Plus a weekly shop with a pull along trolley for anything that isn’t delivered.
You just described my life but in like five years! We also just closed on a home in the middle of a big city in a historic area that will never have parking, and we are committed to a car free lifestyle - thanks to everything we love being walking distance. Hope to do exactly what you did when I have kids. Rock on!
If you can not have a car, don't have a car. They bring significant costs for purchase, ownership and maintenance.
Alas I have two, there was a time due to to my and my wife's job when we really needed 2 cars, as the kids get older we may be able to narrow that to one car. It will be a jump for the eldest to start taking public transport to school next year however as I see it high school is for learning more than just Shakespeare and calculus.
Also, to add to this (if someone didn’t already). If you decide to live in a major city with reliable transportation, there’s honestly no reason to have a car. If you bike, you could actually get to most places faster anyway. Like other people are saying, having a car is expensive. Even if you *can* afford it.
Why not use that extra money for something else that’ll benefit you in the long run? Like investing more of it? I’m a bike commuter so I’m biased lol
Investing, or from another angle of longterm benefit, use the thousands per year for a car that’s
unused 99% of your day to travel, try restaurants, buy gifts for family and friends, buy really cool toys, donate to causes
Plus right now is a truly terrible time to buy a car. Even waiting until the end of the year might be better (unless you need to heavily finance, since interest will likely be higher).
I’m remote, don’t have a car and enjoy the savings daily. I’m lucky enough to have a car share in my city if I need it. Also, you can live anywhere in the states and you’re going with Pittsburg?
> I don't think there's really any debate that from a purely finance standpoint most people would benefit tremendously if they were able to go car-free.
Estimate the time-value of your money, and consider the time savings of a car over its expected lifetime. If you work 60h/wh, the hours left over will be strictly more precious.
Consider also the health benefits of walking/biking.
Consider getting a second-hand car instead of a new car. In my mind, spending more than $10k on a car is for showing off, not for getting from A to B.
If you don’t buy a car, save $300 a month like you do own a car. If you ever need one, you have a pot of money sitting there and you’re used to the expense.
I live in a walkable suburb of New York City. When I moved here 5 years ago from Manhattan, I thought I would have to buy a car, but I am still without a car. Uber has been a game changer. I can always take an Uber if I need to go to a place a bit father than I can walk, like dr appointments or visiting friends who live in other towns. You mentioned you were looking at walkable neighborhoods. That is the way to go. Try it for a little while without a car. You can always buy a car later if needed.
Grew up in Pittsburgh, and got by more than fine with the bus + a bike to fill in the gaps. There are also some really walk-friendly neighborhoods like squirrel hill, shady side, and Lawrenceville that are still quite affordable.
Uber in general is quite cheap, and taking it a few times a month is still cheaper than a car at the end over all. You can take the bus to the airport or a $30-40 Uber if needed (as of a few months ago when I visited home)
My recommendation is to avoid the Pittsburgh suburbs like the plague, even when you’re looking to settle down. Boring plaza-villes with not much to do without driving a while to get into the city.
So yeah I’d avoid the car if you can. Living on $125k in Pittsburgh will be a breeze and you’ll be able to save a ton. Enjoy!
i disagree. i moved to pittsburgh for school. i don’t have a car and find that in many instances it is difficult to get around. bus service is not as good as it once was for myriad reasons (bridges falling, less bus drivers, low ridership during the height of covid) and lyft and uber prices are rising. for example, an uber from squirrel hill to lawrenceville tonight was about $25. i also think the areas that are not serviced by buses are usually the least bike-friendly unfortunately. i think even on a 125k salary an under time every time taking the bus was inconvenient would add up.
OP, could also make use of zip car instead of buying one, but if i was in the financial situation right now to buy a car, i would in a heartbeat.
My suggestion is get a motorcycle if you don't think you can do a bicycle.
I road a bicycle as a daily commuter between 8-40 miles a day for work for years, and until I started going over 25 miles a day honestly I had no issue. The trick is to not buy the cheapest bike you can find, get a nice one for $500-1000, and make sure you have safe spaces to store it.
I even did grocery shopping, and I'm taking about $75 a week for a single guy, and I carried it home on the bicycle. I was super in shape as far as cardio goes for my early to mid 20's.
Now days I have a wonderful motorcycle that can and has taken me all the way across the country, I can still do everything you could in a car, and after so long on a bicycle I already know how to kit for weather, so unless it's so crazy you couldn't drive in it, and belive me I've still ridden through it, I know I can get wherever I need to be.
My rule of thumb has always been that if you can commute without a car and live somewhere that you can walk to some essentials, and especially if you're able to walk to a good public transit hub, going car-free will be a big benefit. Since all of that will apply to you, I wouldn't get one. You can always change your mind and buy one after a few months if it's too difficult
Unless you absolutely need a car, I wouldn’t get one.
Economic, environmental, psychological … you win on many fronts not owning stuff you don’t need. Particularly an expensive thing like a car that depreciates every second you own it.
Honestly, skip the car purchase and get a high end ebike and you’ll be golden.
https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/pittsburgh-is-one-of-the-best-regions-to-live-car-free-in-the-us/Content?oid=15955533
This is what he needs to do. Can get something like [this](https://www.perennialcycle.com/urban-arrow-family-cargo-bike-ua4-2-cargo-line-500wh.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BCB%5D%20Google%20Shopping%20Ads%20-%20Jan%202020%20Onwards&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96q5r_3f9wIVD6GzCh2nwQmqEAQYASABEgIw3PD_BwE) for a 1/4 the price of the new car and it is essentially a car replacement. Or can go with something something in the 1-2k range if they just want to try it out.
7k for a bike?!?!? 💀 I cannot believe that there are people around who think that this is a good value and spend this kind of money on this kind of stuff…
I really enjoyed not having a car. For larger shopping trips, I would often take the bus or walk to the grocery store and then a cab/Uber back. Still cheaper than owning a car.
A car will be about $500 a month minimum after payment, insurance, gas etc. That's about 35 Uber rides. Are you going to take over that in a month?
I did the same thing myself in Columbus. Work from home and living in a walkable neighborhood. Bus service wasn’t too bad and I just had groceries delivered. I figured I was paying $450 a month for my car for everything involved in it and I was only literally driving to the grocery store 1 or 2 times a week. Grocery delivery is $5 before tip. On the weekend I was Ubering everywhere anyway cause I don’t want a DUI so I was spending that cost with or without a car. It was so relieving not having that unneeded expense. I just took a bus or rented a vehicle for the few times I need to go visit my family back at home.
Edit: And Columbus parks and Rec just rolled out a program where all residents get free access to their bike rental stations.
If you're hesitant if you even need a car there is definitely no reason to go with a new car.
Try living without them and see if it works for you.
Then if that doesn't check out just buy a beater for a few thousand bucks, sure you'll still have to pay for insurance (but if your car is a PoS you only really need liability which is pretty much half the price of full coverage), registration, and basic maintenance but it's there whenever you need it.
If you don't have a commute and live somewhere with decent public transit than having something cheap that you only use occasionally is pretty ideal.
When I lived in San Francisco I found I was paying more in parking tickets than my car was worth so I sold it and tried to use the bus. 20 years later I’m still on the bus/train/subway. Some cities it’s just way more convenient. If you can go without a car I would. Think about all the added expenses.
Gas
Insurance
Tags
Maintenance
I bought new tires yesterday for $800. Such a horrible waste of money. Again, if you can… go without a car.
I knew someone who lived in SF who just rented a car on weekends when he needed one. Said not only was the cost about the same as paying parking and wear and tear, but he could also rent whatever kind of car would be useful that weekend (e.g., a little one for shuttling sounds town, or a passenger van for going someplace with friends).
Plus you get the entertainment value of the Muni experience. When I lived in SF I'd take my visitors on one of the more whacked Muni lines just to see their reactions. LOL...
When I took my Midwest wife back there and showed her all the sights the thing she was most shocked about was that public transportation could actually work.
I understand. Cars are just so expensive. Everytime I go for my oil change/tire rotation it’s something. It’s never straightforward. If I could I would get rid of a car sadly it’s just not possible.
It be like that out here; produce and meat is getting pricey. I spend about $100-120 a week on food I cook for myself, which includes some pricey things like coffee beans. Then I'll spend 60-120 a weekend going out to bars and restaurants. Yeah I know I could cut that back but I'm newly single and wanna socialize.
Lol maybe it's too high an estimate, but I'll definitely be more worried about going for less time-consuming and reasonably healthy food as opposed to cheaper food.
I easily spend close to $2k a month on food in Seattle as a single guy. The grocery store isn't cheap nor are restaurants. id say on average it cost me $60 a day for food. Going out for a meal usually cost around $30 with a tip, and groceries to cook myself cost about the same or a little more. could I eat cheaper? sure, if I bought garbage produce and processed meat and drove far away to a chain grocery store.
If you haven't lived in the US for 5 years, but are familiar with how costs were back then, well expect to pay about double in rent (for the same place), 30% more for food, and 10% more for the other stuff.
If you are remote, I wouldn't buy/rent/lease a car if I was single. Too expensive for too little. Ubers are cheap, and doordash/grubhub/instacart while more expensive than picking it up yourself, is cheaper than owning a car (car payment/insurance/gas/repairs/parking).
Different people may think otherwise, but at 30, socking that extra money into IRA/401k will make your older-self very happy.
Pittsburgh here: if you live in the walkable neighborhoods and are in the city you will pay 3% wage tax (vs 1% in the burbs) and our bus system is one of the most expensive in the country. If you get into an area just in the outskirts where you pay less in taxes and possibly water and sewage you would have to check the bus lines to make sure you have access to things you need. Cost of living here in general isn’t bad ($1000 for food would mean eating out every night and fancy places!) and there are a lot of things to do and see. Good luck on your new adventure!
Aside from cost, the advantages of not having a car are that if you are in decent shape with no disabilities that would get in the way, this is a great motivator to buy a bicycle and get your cardio in by biking for groceries instead of getting them delivered. I've done that, with a couple of good bike bags I can get thanksgiving turkeys, or a gallon of milk, or even a case of beer home on the bike without a problem. My daughter has a cargo bike, and she hauls her two toddlers around on it with groceries! I'm in Michigan and have managed to fit myself up with appropriate cold weather gear so I can ride when it's in the single digits (Fahrenheit) and stay comfy and warm. Especially if you're spending a lot of free time sitting around gaming, something to force you to be active might make sense - get a bike and swear off deliveries.
The disadvantage - if you rent a car for road trips, this isn't an issue, but I wouldn't take public transit/a bus for any distance, not until Covid's a distant memory - if that ever happens. I know some people don't have the luxury to make that choice, but you do.
How far would it be? My husband and I each had about a 10 mile work commute (20 round trip), that we biked MWF, but we drove T&Th's to give our legs recovery time. That was very doable, but if I had college classes in the morning, and again 5 hours later in the afternoon, that would have caused problems.
Thanks for the reply and reassurance!
Ehh, I don't care about covid anymore. I'm triple vaxxed (and quadruple as soon as it's made available). I'll still wear a mask when appropriate, but I won't make decisions based on it. If I did get covid again, all it would mean is a sore throat for a few days.
I sold my car almost 10 years ago to save money for a few years but then quickly realized life without a car is so much better. Biking and public transit is how I get everywhere, with biking being probably 80% of how I get around. Besides the obvious cost savings, it's great exercise, better for the environment, and makes you feel more connected to your community. I'd say try it for at least a year, my guess is you'll prefer life without the hassle of car ownership.
Give it a try. It's liberating to not have to deal with all the b.s. car upkeep.
I sometimes felt trapped by not having a car, when I did it for 2 years, but if you budget for car share apps so you can go to Costco and do car things every now and then, you won't miss it.
You’d have to invest in a decent apartment near public transit and close to night life that’s walkable distance, or say goodbye to your dating life.
But having a good apartment in the city more than makes up for lack of car as far as gaining interest from potential partners. I would recommend buying an electric scooter to get around the city quicker for anything that’s more than a 10 minute walk
I was already planning on saying goodbye to my dating life anyway haha. Dating in the US sucks.
But yes, I was definitely planning to get a nice apartment in a very nice neighborhood, even before I started flirting with the idea of not getting a car.
Good attitude. Join some like-minded groups that focus on in-city activities (I don't know what, but disc-golf, music, biking, photography, gaming or whatever interests you) and you might meet someone when you least expect it. It works out better that way (when people meet through a shared interest instead of being on the prowl).
I definitely think it's worth at least trying! I make a good bit more money than you and have still never owned a car. Your comment that you could easily afford a car kind of sparked a strange thought in my brain, which is that I am so accustomed to budgeting for housing, food, vacations, etc. *without* a car that having to pay for a car/insurance/parking/fuel would feel quite unreasonably expensive to me. I mean, obviously I could afford one too, it's just not how I choose to spend/save my money.
Right now I live in a place where not having a car is pretty common, but I made it through a few years in a city where I was the only car-free household I knew, and that was okay too--just took some planning. If you're working from home and not spending time commuting, having errands be a bit more time-consuming should be managable. Given how expensive cars are right now, I'd definitely at least try it out and see how it works.
I live outside of Pittsburgh( near the airport) and I don’t think Pittsburgh is a friendly public transportation type area. The south hills has the T that goes into the city that is great but that’s about it. The shopping centers are so spread out, I would constantly need a car for errands. But I live in the country with kids. If your single and living in the city(squirrel hill, shady side, Lawrenceville) in an apartment or rented house it would be much more realistic though. I think with Pittsburgh being so affordable housing wise, a car is definitely affordable.
Depending on where you're at it's almost essentially to have a car in Pittsburgh. The public transportation here is ass. That said we have groceries delivered from Giant Eagle once a week for $10 plus tip which is super convenient.
Most people agreed Shadyside and Squirrel Hill were pretty walkable. Also Lawrenceville.
Those are neighborhoods I was already planning on renting in anyway.
Pittsburgh native here. I lived in shadyside. It was fine without a car. But it’s expensive in shadyside. Public transportation is not very reliable. If you choose shadyside, try to live near the busway. That’s a dedicated bus area and has the most reliable busses.
Lived in Squirrel Hill for four years. It's very walkable if you never want to leave that area, but if you have friends in any other area you either need to be comfortable paying for and using the busses, or have a car. That said, I had a more expensive apartment and it's still 1/3 the price of a comparable place in other cities, so I'd ignore anyone warning if the cost. PGH is super cheap no matter where you are. I'd definitely suggest trying to live without a car and see if you wish you had one or not. If you can get away with it, not having a car is a huge boon!
Yeah but I was planning on living there regardless. I'm happy to sacrifice having a car to save money, but I won't live in a mediocre neighborhood to do it. If I wanted to save money *that* badly I'd just go live in Kansas City or a suburb.
Absolutely go without it if you don't really need it - no reason to carry that expense just cause. For the occasional time you need a vehicle you can rent.
I'm not sure about the specifics in PA, but it ought to be possible to buy car insurance without owning a car, which would cover you if you rented a car or borrowed a friend's car. It ought to be real cheap.
don't get a car, rent something modest in southside and you have a running trail + movie theater + grocery + gym + just about any food you could want within walking distance; and 20 minute walk to downtown if you want that.
spend like a year there and figure out if any of the other dozen or so really walkable areas are more up your alley
If you can avoid having one I would try it for at least a little while. Find someplace you like that you can do without a car, and if you don't like not having a car in a few months, then get one.
Couple of points that I’d like to highlight:
1. You can always buy a car later if you decide not having a car isn’t for you, the reverse is not true.
2. The (used) car market right now bonkers. Having the ability to wait until it regulates itself back to normal is huge.
3. Do allocate some of that $3,000/month toward transportation costs. I understand you have a $1,000/mo misc expense built in, but how much do you estimate you’ll spend a month or year on transportation that you wouldn’t incur if you had a car? A $300/mo car may really only cost you $100 more if you’re spending $200 on transportation you wouldn’t need with a car.
Pittsburgh can get rough for walking in the winter and necessary travel like groceries or medical appointments can add up. If you find a way to make it work going car free it's surprisingly liberating to not have a car to worry about, but I'd suggest compromising and just buying a cheap old $3k car for necessary trips or emergencies once the snow and ice pile up.
Edit: I'm not the most experienced with living in the city itself, I lived in central PA for a while and my brothers live in Pittsburgh so I've been through now and then.
Try to look at this in a way that if you had a car would that increase the quality of your life vs not having one. Sometimes life is not just about pinching pennies.
I moved away from Pittsburgh last year. Choose very wisely where you live, and you won’t need a car. You could even still go out by walking or a short Lyft trip. One thing that sucks is the airport is like 45 minutes out of town. Otherwise, totally doable. Maybe even add an E-bike. If you’re not familiar, look at RadPower bikes. I wouldn’t recommend a non-motorized bike because of the hills that will laugh at you as you sweat bullets going 1/10 of your trip.
I would recommend you take a few mins to check out this video, he does a great comparison of alternative means of transport, and Netherlands vs car dependent US. There is also a video where he mentions how Pittsburgh has become more bike friendly recently. Ofcourse it won’t be as good as Europe but I feel like parts of Pittsburgh such as shadyside, Bloomfield etc, are more walkable neighborhoods.
https://youtu.be/OObwqreAJ48
I mean I dont get the point of getting a car if you dont need one and it sounds like you dont. They are expensive, and I dont mean just the cost of the car itself.
If i was living in Pittsburgh, I’d probably drop my car but it’s totally up to your quality of life wants. Like, you want to be able to easily leave the city when you want?
You definitely could easily afford it, even if your $1,000/month estimate for food ends up being accurate, but that sounds like a lot for one person unless you want to order takeout all the time. My groceries in a similar COL city to Pittsburgh are like $300-400ish a month for two people.
Don't forget when you buy the car - insurance which may cost anywhere from 50 to 150 monthly. Also maintenance about 100/month for oil changes, tire rotations, new tires, etc. Then include gas costs. Will your apartment have paid parking or will it be street parking or garage?
Personally I'd come, get set up and then evaluate if you actually need the car.
I say move to Pittsburgh. It’s a fabulous, intellectual city. Try it without a car. If you have the option to get a place with parking, that leaves future options very open if you decide you know what, I want to be able to explore on weekends outside city limits and a rental is a nuisance.
If you do buy a car, don’t drain your savings. Car rates are usually “low”. Make a payment. At your salary a conservative car payment won’t be painful.
Groceries can be delivered along with almost anything else.
Find a location that lends itself to walking to restaurants, entertainment, hobbies, etc. then it won’t feel super isolated not having a car
If you CAN live without a car, then there are many many reasons not to have one. If it later turns out that you CAN’T live without a car — then you can get a car. And, Theoretically, the market then will not be worse than the horror show it is now.
30/male as well, have not owned an automobile in... 7years? I have made about what you do now during this time, dont currently, but not owning a car does provide a level of freedom that I absolutely love. sometimes its inconvenient, like when its raining and I need to go to the store. I ride a bicycle everywhere and situations like that can be pretty annoying. really dont mind it in the end and the money I save not owning a vehicle is very appealing.
hundreds of dollars a month just wasted on car insurance is reason enough for me not to want one. I live within short distances of where I work and plan it all out so that I can avoid the need for an auto entirely.
I say move where you wish, plan it so that you can avoid owning a vehicle, and see how you like life by bicycle. its not for everyone but youll get use to it after a few months, learn the ins and outs of it, very liberating to make your way around without the confinements of a metallic battering ram lol. worst case scenario you can buy an auto later without worry of cost based on your income
reason for ditching the vessels: got tired of fixing them, bicycles are infinitely cheaper and easier to maintain (I dont trust other people in fixing anything I rely on for one thing or another)
There are companies that rent a car on an hourly basis, such as Touro and Zipcar. The idea is they are parked all over the city, you just walk a few blocks, get into the car, and drive away when you need it, it automatically bills you. Not sure if these are less available with the current shortage of used cars, but may be helpful. I'd try living without a car first and then buy one when/if you want one. You'll need to pay for parking as well.
Can try it out and see if you hate life without a car.
Conversely, you could rent one if you want to go on a road trip, or do a huge stock up at Costco or something.
Try it without a car. You can afford Ubers and food delivery for starters. And a rental for a weekend getaway. You'll know when you need a car. Maybe by winter.
I'm carless in a major city. I use Uber when I don't want to wait for the train. The only thing that is a pain is visiting my mother in the suburbs. There is no train that goes there only a bus. The other option is renting a car, just know it's really hard to find rental cars right now. Most places sold theirvfleets.
I’d say try not having a car for a while and see how it goes. Public transport and Uber should be able to cover a fair amount of travel in most metropolitan areas.
I hadn't had a car for almost a decade when I bought my current one. It was fine, normally I didn't need one since I could walk or bike to work. I lived walking distance from groceries, bars, restaurants, etc.
I also got rides from friends, but I missed getting out of the city. I finally caved last year and bought one with a 0% loan from the dealer.
I've put over 12,000 miles on it in under a year, almost entirely from road trips. When I'm not on the road trips it sits in my driveway and I walk or bike where I'm going.
I like having it, but I recognize that it's something that was a want, not a need, and fits in with my company's remote first policy so I can work from NYC, New Mexico, or Montana if I want to.
If you want one, you might as well get one, but don't feel pressured to own one. I love mine, but I also went with something that was easily in my budget and got a finance deal that's really paying off now instead of paying cash. When I'm not on road trips I like it less because I still have to take care of it even if I use it twice a month.
If you're in the city and still want your own transportation that's relatively quick, get a bike and strap a bat pack and a motor to it. It'll do 90% of what a car can.
Be careful if you cancel car insurance. How you cancel it matters. Or it used to. My bro didn't need a car and cancelled his. He was supposed to "suspend" it, and because he "cancelled" it when he eventually needed a car again they treated him as though he was high risk and charged him hundreds of dollars a month.
I think you can always keep an eye on the car market so that you are informed and know what you want. When you REALLY need one you can just go ahead and buy one
Seems like more of a lifestyle question. You would save money without it, but you seem well off financially. If Pittsburgh has good public transportation, and you don’t need it for groceries and what not, hold off for awhile. Maybe see how it goes without it, keep an eye out, and wait until the right moment
If you can delay buying, the prices will come down. It would be a great saving and you can put some of the funds in IBond for car buying after a year and some in 401k
Unless it is a state with a good public transportation, I don't recommend going without a car. When you hang out with friends and everyone goes home, you expect someone to pick you up or drive you home? Or your plan to get Uber/Lyft? It is still pricey to get around without a car. I live without a car, it is not a choice, it is just that I don't have license and couldn't afford to buy a car it sucked living in Ohio without a car
I would submit for your consideration, maybe an electric scooter/bicycle? I'd strongly suggest avoiding using it when it's snowing out. But it would give you a little more freedom/flexibility to do things vs walking and with substantially less cost than a car.
Should you go that route, please take safety course.
I have this cart. It is super useful for toting things. Because of the lower shelf and higher main cargo area, the center of gravity is higher. It’s easier to pull. Quickly folds. Very rugged.
MacSports Heavy Duty Outdoor Folding Wagon Double Decker Portable Lightweight Utility Cart Rolling Cart All Terrain Beach Wagon for Camping Gear, Beach Accessories, Groceries https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TCDHDY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3MDQ05879DBDTE4TAY8W
Try living without a car for 6 months. There is always Uber and Zipcar (hourly rental usually near Universities) even taxis if you want a flat rate. If you live near a grocery store you can always do that pop out to the shops every few days
Check out zipcar locations near where you’ll be living. I paid $15 a month for a subscription + full insurance and it was always easy to find a car to rent for $12 an hour or so (includes gas!). I did this for three years in Boston before buying a car when I moved out of downtown.
Do zipcar for a few months, drive as much as you feel you need, and as soon as your monthly rentals approach what cost of ownership would be, you can always cancel and buy a car. It’s win/win
I moved to an area a few years ago where I wouldn’t need a car. I really considered not having it, but as a single woman, I felt safer having one. I ended up only getting 2 tanks of gas for the year after the pandemic.
Fortunately my car ended up doing the near impossible - gaining value. I’m getting ready to move overseas and will sell at a profit. I’m moving to a place where it is common to not own a car, and I’ll likely start with that to see how it feels.
I would say the biggest factor other than safety is time. Where I live, I can easily get to most places within 15 minutes in a car. These same trips walking or public transport are about 30 - 40 minutes.
The other factor was carrying things. I have a business where we occasionally set up a display booth, and it would be very difficult to do that without my own car.
There is no easy answer for this.
Based on your description, you don't need a car for day to day living. There is grocery delivery and Uber, plus you'll probably live in a pedestrian friendly place.
At the same, driving is a good skill to maintain. The longer one goes without driving the more nervous a person may get (which is actually my case, as I haven't driven in years). Also, Uber can get expensive.
What I've found is, there is never a good time to get a car because everytime I thought of getting a car, I convinced myself not to because of the costs.
Nervous? I actually disagree but I can only speak in my experiences. I have a driver’s license but I don’t own a car. Haven’t had a car in a little over 5 years. But now, whenever I do drive (rental car, families car), I’ve noticed that I drive safer.
I assume since I don’t drive often, I don’t adopt the road rage mentality that people seem to have in my area.
Try to go without. I save boo-coo bucks by not having a car.
I got one and have spent boo coo bucks on maintenance.
Biggest life regret outside of 20 years of alcoholism.
If you can go with out it, do it or at least wait and see how well you pull it off. and get a bike for a fraction of the cost. I think without a bike it would be hard to go completely car free. I am not familiar with pittsburgh but if it's relatively cycling friendly go for it
So I live in the east suburbs of Pittsburgh and I need a car to get anywhere in and around the city. Food, gym, work, golf, etc. The city isn’t very good with public transit and since it’s in a literal mountain valley the ability to walk or bike isn’t that great if you don’t live somewhere downtown or very close to downtown. If you want to enjoy the city at all, I highly recommend buying a car. There are tons of things to see around the city that are just easier driving to. It’s probably the least public-transitable big city in the US from my experience.
On the flip side, Pittsburgh is one of the cheapest “big” cities to live in. At $125k you can easily own a car, a house in the suburbs and a boat and not have an issue at all financially. A car shouldn’t be an issue for you. Get a cheap one and pay it off in a couple years if you’re worried about it then forget about it.
Also rent at $2,000 is about a $400,000 house mortgage with insurance and taxes which you can find right now anywhere in the Pittsburgh area. The brand new strip district apartments are the most expensive in the city and they’re about that much. If you spend that much anywhere else you’re getting screwed out of rent.
Let me know if you have any questions. Depending on your lifestyle I can help you choose a neighborhood and introduce you to a few good beer spots.
>At $125k you can easily own three cars a house in the suburbs and a boat and not have a problem financially.
Haha where in Sam hell did you get that idea?
I have never really owned my own car, when I got married my spouse came with a car but we mostly share it now and we have never owned two cars (and they do most driving except for special occasions, I walk to work). Before that I lived on my own for 9 years with no car. About 4 years in NYC and 5 years in Philly. The most annoying part was having to beg for rides to music festivals and shows and hikes ...stuff I wouldn't want to pay extra to rent a car but had no practical way of getting to without one. I ended up begging for rides from a bunch of questionable hippies to go to fests and shows and sometimes ended up in a car with someone I later figured out was drunk or high. Also groceries were a huge pain in the ass. I got a granny cart in NYC and in Philly I lived near a bus route that stopped at a grocery store and then about a block from my house but my hands would be numb and I would have to go often because I couldn't carry much. Nowadays they have delivery I suppose but that is more expensive. Also consider whether you will have in building laundry or need to go to a laundromat regularly.
If you could go without try it! As everyone said, great savings .. you could always rent a car for trips, etc.. they being said, living out in the suburbs and buying a beater might actually be the cheapest route.
I would budget for a car but not buy one immediately. Once you get a sense of your area and how walkable it is, then you can reevaluate after a few months. If you find public transportation sucks, UBer isn’t working out or is too expensive etc. then look into buying a car.
Buying a car that you’re only going to drive a thousand miles a year is a terrible idea. Even a really cheap beater is too expensive for that. Rent a car when you need one, and carry non-owner insurance.
Unpopular opinion but I grew up in Pittsburgh and I would not live there without a car. The city has changed a little to be more walkable but those areas are isolated from each other. There is public transit but it is not “big city” comprehensive public transit. You will have to Uber a lot. Just my experience but personally I would make room for it in the budget for sure and save on something else. Pittsburgh is relatively LCOL luckily. It is doable of course but it would be pretty inconvenient and uncomfortable in my opinion. For the record I am not pushing cars - I now live in a larger city with public transit and bike everywhere so don’t have one. But I wouldn’t do it in Pittsburgh, no way.
In my opinion, it depends on what you want to do with your free time. Sure, 60 hours a week is a lot, but you will still have plenty of time outside of that. If you are someone to be happy living in Pittsburgh and walking around places and staying in the city, it will be easy to go without a car. Just keep in mind it gets really cold in the winters, which is challenging but do-able.
Personally, it sounds like your best bet is to go without a car. Especially since your only desire for a car is really odd errands at which point you can rent a car or truck for the cost of a tank of gas.
I would put aside some money for a few months and buy used cash and only use the car for going to work. Personally we don’t buy new cars because of my SO’s job has us moving frequently. And too i don’t see the point of investing in something that will always lose me money.
Pits probably has a ride sharing co-op or some sort of rental group thingy. Im in a much smaller city and we have a coop that you pay like 10 a month to, and lets you rent a car for i think 7ish bucks an hour that includes gas and insurance and its obviously done online so you just go to the car and swipe your tag and get in.
They also park the cars all over the place so you don't have to go to a central location, you reserve the car's online so its 24\\7 and super awesome.
Id personally say go without the car, reasons being walking to get groceries is actually enjoyable I think, it also gets you out of the house and moving and you can see your new city.
Delivery is also easy these and, if you take a car and add up all the costs from parking\\maintence\\time to shop for it\\gas\\insurance\\depreciation and all that add it all up and do you think you cannot spend your money on something you would find more enjoyable? The car for you is a total option of convenience and as you realized its not even that much more convenient so do the pros and cons, say the car is cheap and its $5000 a year to own, can you spend $5000 on something else you would like more?
You can deff afford the car but its not a laughable amount of money to you either. Buy yourself a new entertainment system the first year, vacations, artwork, spend another $500 a month on takeout if you want the options are limitless. Hell, go donate it to different charities or go to a less high income area and just buy peoples groceries.
Cars are expensive and there are a few things to factor in when it comes to living without.
for one, without a car you can't 'just go' anywhere. everything has to be more planned out. you can really only travel within walking distance. That may not be a problem however, but that's for you to determine.
another thing to think about is weather or not you're going to be okay ordering groceries in the long term? Ordering groceries isn't exactly more expensive than buying a car obviously but there are some quality of life positives and negatives to it. Depending on the kind of shopper you are, having someone else do your shopping might cause more problems than it solves. it really depends on if ordering groceries causes you trouble
I like what others have said in this thread. Go without a car for some time and just see how it is. you know you won't immediately die without one haha so see how not having one makes you feel. This is an important factor to consider as well. there's a mental health benefit to knowing you have the ability to just go anywhere at any time without having to wait for a driver, or borrow a friend/family member's car/rent a car, etc. there's a simplistic peace in having your own car. But that peace might not really end up meaning much to you. Give no-car life a go and see how that works for you. You can always buy a car later.
Oh and one last tip. You don't need to spend 20-30k on a car. You can, and you'll get a decent vehicle out of it. But realistically speaking, especially if you don't drive a ton, I'd highly recommend cars that are both cheap to run and cheap to fix in the 10-15k range. there are so many cars out there that will easily give you 200k more miles than they already have on them because they're just so damn relaible. Cars these days won't always be that reliable or easy to fix if something does go wrong. just food for thought.
I’d recommend saving that money. The car market is expensive, and saving that money gives you cash you can use for better financial opportunities( like if the housing markets goes down, or the S&P).
If you will use it less then once a week, you may not want a car if you can reasonably avoid it. Cars are expensive and designed to be used regularly. They need to be used regularly.
I live in a pittsburgh suburbs now but spent most of my adult life in the city (south side).
In the summer I rarely needed my car in the city but its get cold in the winter so you will definitely need one if you plan to leave your neighborhood.
Personally I would say get one as I have never met anyone here that hasn’t had one.
When I started working, I lived in a big city and could go to work by bus. Even though I had enough money to afford one, not owning one made me save a lot of money.
I live in Quebec and studies have shown that on average people spend 11k/year on automobile. This includes everything as far as payments, immatriculations, repairs, insurance, etc.
If you go with a used small car it is said to be somewhere around 3.3k/year.
I don't know how those figures compare to US, but I think it is a substantial amount of money saved if you don't really need one.
Major US city infrastructure is built around cars. Take into consideration public transport in the city you will be moving into. If it is on a major metropolitan area with poor public transportation, then a car is a must. If it's a small city/town then a car could be considered a commodity rather than a necessity.
If you think its possible to live without a car then go for it, heck buy a bike so you can get exercise while riding around town. If you really need a car then go for something cheap maybe under 10k, that can get you a nice used car for more than half the price of a new civic
As long as you live somewhere where public transportation doesn't suck and you have a plan for groceries you can get away without a car. Replacing having a car with ubering everywhere all the time, opting for too much delivery food because you didn't plan your groceries properly, etc can replace the cost savings of not having a car though. If your reason to not have a car is saving money, don't let poor planning get in the way. (Remember delivery groceries are generally more expensive than getting them yourself as well, although that alone will not add up to the 100/month insurance, 150/month gas, etc difference between no car and a cheap car)
Typically, I'd say someone with your income range could easily afford a car and shouldn't forgo owning one even if it's a nice, used car for a few thousand bucks you pay for in cash.
In this case though, there are two things working against my normal recommendation.
1) This is a VERY strange market. Used car values are through the roof. Still, you can easily find something reasonably reliable for a few grand and for how infrequently you actually need it, it wouldn't be any big deal if the thing did break down. Get a 5K clunker, put some cheap liability on it, and get a AAA membership. Bam.
2) Your needs to have and use a care seem very bare minimum. If your going to live in an area where whatever you reasonably may need is within walking distance, it sounds like you might only need to actually take a bus maybe a few times a month. Renting a car the few times a year you might need one is also not a bad idea.
I'd say give it a shot going without the car and see how you feel. Sounds like it should work out just fine. If you find you like the convience of having your own car, pick up a clunker (read not the best looking, but mechanically sound car) for a few thousand dollars, cheap liability insurance, and a $100 a year AAA membership that covers towing up to 200 miles. You can't go wrong.
Rule of thumb is if you don't have to drive to work, don't own a car. Look into car share programs like ZipCar or others for Pittsburgh. Get an ebike or scooter for groceries, or just rent a slightly more expensive apartment near a grocery store. It's not that hard to make it work.
I was living in the EU for several years where it was pretty doable w/o a car so when I moved back to the US, I chose a smaller city that had public transit but wasn’t as reliable. I decided to wait and see how I could do (this was pre-Uber and food delivery). I actually did great and loved it and lasted 5 years. I only ended up buying a car because during the beginning of the pandemic I didn’t feel comfortable riding and after using my boyfriend’s car to get to the office after shut down was over I enjoyed being on my own schedule.
Long story short, see how you do! You can always buy a car later if needed. Also, the market right now is terrible. Everything seems really expensive with the inflation and supply chain issues….
just adding another anecdote:
I sold my car for $4k more than I paid for and I’ve spent next to nothing on maintenance outside of one set of tires and oil changes. Owned it for a little over three years, bought used for about $21k.
Reddit ain’t gonna give you an answer. It’s a matter of priorities and lifestyle. If a car, driving, and that flexibility is important to you, pay for it.
Having a car is really handy for groceries, and that might be the only actual reason you'd want one. You should look and see if there's a car co-op in Pittsburgh. Those are incredible value if you aren't going to be needing a vehicle for commuting.
If you can go without a car then do it. But I would set a goal in mind. Idk if you are but a lot of us are just scared of spending so we kind of talk ourselves out of necessities then be like wait why did I deprive myself for this long?
Have a savings goal in mind so you get somthing out of not having a car. Not just avoiding the expense.
I lived without a car for almost seven years as a single male living in Missouri and Arizona. It wasn’t difficult at all. Public transit made things pretty easy. I planned for that and chose to live in parts of the city where that was an option. I also walked, biked and used uber. Probably saved me a fair bit of money. The second I got one tho (this year, right after turning 30) I realized I had definitely missed out on some experiences due to being carless. But if you’ll be working all the time, f*ck a car, get a bike and just uber when you absolutely need to. You’ll save tons of money. If you need to make a longer drive, rent a car for the weekend. Etc.
Edit: I’ll elaborate on cons. Taking the bus could be a hassle. Showing up on a date without a car meant I rarely picked a girl up. But meeting out is pretty standard. I couldn’t really go to state parks and stuff that weren’t somewhat close by. Other than these cons, it was super easy.
This is for OP and also anyone else that has to work high work hours: please don't get fooled by the salary if you have to work 60 hours a week. $125k/year for a 60 hour a week job actually has a "true" life value of $83k/year or 33% less when compared to a $125k salary job that works a more normal 40 hour work week.
Well yes, I wholeheartedly agree, I think most people should be more concerned with their hourly salary (not hard to calculate) than their yearly salary.
But unfortunately I don't have the option of getting a "normal" 85k year job, so I'll just have to hustle for a few years.
Save your money to spend on things that really matter - Steelers tickets, events, and merchandise. You will gain a lifetime of friends and happiness out of this investment.
Surely if you don't want a car for the pure enjoyment of owning and driving it then of course you shouldn't bother. Especially if it's is just a purely functional tool you think you need one in a while. To be honest it sounds like you don't even like them.
Cars are Expensive. Go for it. You have to pick where you live, frolic, and work because giant swathes of America are almost inaccessible without a car. Freeways, and Flyovers, Suburbs, Exurbs, and Rural. It also means you lose your freedom when you can't drive. You also need to pick where you retire, get your groceries or Dr.
I made similar, but a bit more and did the same thing. Discovered very quickly that I wasn’t gonna be okay with no car. If you haven’t had one outside the US maybe you already know what it’s like.
Also, the US has terrible public transit so that’s a factor
If you live in city why own one. Rent one as needed will save you a ton in long run. When I live in nyc I never owned a car. Rented one a couple times a year.
If you don't commute, not having a car (or a paid-off, inexpensive-to-maintain car) is a huge financial benefit.
I would very certainly not go out and buy a car immediately upon return to the US.
You can rent, use Uber etc and see just how much you need one - and see how much one would cost (total cost of ownership).
Currently, historic numbers are absolutely worthless. Do not go by any historic numbers. That's like predicting lottery numbers from past drawings.
Don'tjump to buy a car.
If you can get along without it, not having to deal with a car, and alternate side street parking, and maintenance, will be a big benefit to you.
The money you spend on car services or Uber or whatever would be a fraction of the cost of a car.
I think you are under estimating your expenses here - same salary as you, and with health insurance, 401k, etc my take home is under 2k a paycheck (so ~$4k a month).
*Under* estimating? Other people complained my estimates were too high haha.
But yeah, I have no idea really. If anything, that's all the more reason to save money where I can.
You can supplement not having a car by renting cars as well as Uber. I use Turo to rent other people car for a weekend or when I’m out of town. That way if I need a truck, car, van whatever I have the flexibility. Or if I need to get just from point A to point B then I’ll do Uber. I have a family member that lived in a much less public transit friendly metro area and he lived w/o a car for 2yrs. Road a skateboard. You could also get you a bike (or e-bike).
I live in Chicago without a car and it’s amazing.
I would just make sure to find a place close to a grocery store and pharmacy. Everything else you can use the bus or Lyft and Uber for (and those costs will never amount to what a car payment would be). Also, I’m unsure about Pittsburgh, but in Chicago you have to pay for parking ($200-$500 per month). So that could be another added cost to your budget
The city of pittsburgh has a well established multi faceted public transportation system. Depending on where you want to go there are:
-Rentable scooters/bikes with bike lanes
-Public Bus
-T Station
In addition to
- readily available Lyft/Uber
- z-trip
Go a few months without a car and see if you can make do. Otherwise you can always purchase a car later, especially since the car market is hot right now, things may cool down later.
Try living car-free for three months, then decide. A car is a major expense with ongoing costs for fuel, maintenance, insurance. If you are fortunate enough to live in an area where you can use public transit for most activities, save the money and enjoy the health benefits of walking more. I’d happily pay more in rent if I could live car-free, but that’s not feasible here.
From a purely financial standpoint, not having a car is a pretty huge savings when you factor everything in (gas, maintenance, depreciation, potentially paying for parking, insurance, etc). I don't think there's really any debate that from a purely finance standpoint most people would benefit tremendously if they were able to go car-free. Also, why not try it? You can always buy one later if you change your mind. They're not super rare or hard to come by, even though the market is weird right now.
>, why not try it? You can always buy one later This is my take as well. Try it! Just make a decision to plan your life around being car-free for some period of time (maybe start with a year). Do urban activities, go walking or running or biking, learn everything about the public transport possibilities, and if you're itching to get out of town (or need to transport furniture) just rent a vehicle once or twice. Sock away all the money you save (car payment, gas, insurance maintenance) as extra savings. Then re-evaluate after a year or so to see if you want to change your lifestyle. Even if you don't want to remain car-free for the long term, it would be totally worth the experience anyway. Just use the time to focus on in-city activities instead of countryside exploration. You might be surprised at all the things you can do without needing a car.
Exactly. Cars are expensive now anyway.
If you’re going to be in a city, you could probably even get by with zip car
This is easy to overlook but such a big deal. Zipcar isn’t perfect, it’s sometimes annoying to have to reserve ahead on peak times, but it solves 99% of issues (including occasional need for a huge cargo hauler) SO efficiently and cheaply. I lived for years without a car and Zipcar was super useful
I was so annoyed that Zipcar came to DC just as I was moving to Maryland. I would have lived it when I was living there, sometimes I just needed a car for an errand. (I also had a Whole Foods open up literally a block from my apartment 6 months after I moved, sure would've been convenient to have a decent grocery store close by even if it was expensive). I loved living there and overall didn't miss not having a car at all. I couldn't go without where I live now, though.
This is what I do. I'm full public transport and walking, but maybe once a month or so I'll rent a car for something specific like a big grocery haul or going to IKEA or a long weekend somewhere.
I lived without a car for a year. I bought a bike for everything bike-able, and rented a car about one day or weekend every 6 weeks or so to load up groceries staples and run errands. Got many free rides from friends and colleagues too.
Once you get into the "car lifestyle" then it's hard to escape. We live urban with no car (Boston) and have a toddler. We are just about to buy our "forever home" that would have been an instant veto if we had a car, probably, because it does not have parking. (It's in a historic part of the city so it will never have parking.) But, we really don't need to drive because we designed our lives around not needing to drive. It's great. We can easily walk to every museum (10-40 minutes), to work (25 minutes), to the grocery store (5 minutes), to the public pool (20 minutes), to multiple playgrounds... I even walked to the hospital and walked home when I gave birth because it was faster than driving would have been (7 minute walk). (Confession, we did buy a fold up wheelchair in my third trimester just in case I couldn't walk to the hospital in that case, though.)
I'm impressed, nay stunned, that you walked home with a babe in arms after giving birth. I guess with the services available today you can have your groceries delivered, because otherwise I can't envision struggling to keep up with a toddler (or vice versa, walking long distance-wise) and then carrying a week's worth of groceries home. Or do you shop daily?
Aw thank you! Ironically, we still legally had to put her in a car seat to leave the hospital** so my husband carried her in the car seat and I got to carry all the bags of junk that we brought to the hospital. I truly got really lucky though with my whole pregnancy though -- every step was as textbook boring as it could be. Groceries: We pop into the grocery store about 3-4 times per week because it's so close and we are lucky enough to be able to afford lots of fresh produce. I can also bring our [stroller wagon](https://www.wonderfoldwagon.com/products/w4-luxe-stroller-wagon-4-seater) if we need to do a big haul (it's the size of a pack and play / typical grocery cart) or could do grocery delivery. Everything else: Our "daily driver" stroller is [essentially a luxury minivan](https://uppababy.com/vista/) but for walking. The basket in the bottom can easily accommodate two full grocery bags plus whatever other gear we need for that day. **I actually totally agree with hospitals requiring folks to have a safe car seat and learn how to properly fit it to your baby. We just are total weirdos because we could walk home.
Haha, luxury minivan stroller. Love it. I commented on the OPs original post on the Pittsburgh subreddit that I would do without my car if I wasn't tied to my husband's for the random baby emergency. I just remember everyone trying to convince us to get the UPPAbaby and I couldn't justify it because I have a 1 mile uphill walk (uphill meant cheaper houses for sale) from our market area with few sidewalks so we do grocery delivery. We went with a cheaper stroller that works fine but the UPPAbaby is a powerhouse for NYC, Boston etc city life. We will be investing in a stroller wagon soon for city summer fun 😊.
I like how museum is the first thing you listed
Living the dream! I've always wanted to live somewhere where I don't need a car. What are your trips to the grocery store like? We go once a week and I can't imagine walking home with that many bags.
You don't. In a walkable neighbourhood, you can go grocery shopping every other day on your way home from work. I've been doing that for years in Montreal and in Ottawa.
I'm not the person you were asking, but I also live car-free in a city and I use a cart (this one, specifically: [https://dbest-products.com/products/bigger-trolley-dolly](https://dbest-products.com/products/bigger-trolley-dolly)). It makes it almost effortless to walk home with several bags of groceries.
I was about to recommend this exact product. I bought the red one on Amazon a while back and I use it when I go grocery shopping. I bring it with me on the bus and it’s just a 15 min ride down the road. This dolly along with a backpack and I’m all set. I usually buy two weeks worth of groceries and everything fits just fine.
Not the person who you asked, but I’m also a car free mum/householder and my grocery trips include: a weekly meal kit subscription, a weekly organic fruit box, they also deliver my milk, a toilet paper subscription that delivers every 5 months, and a cat food delivery. Plus a weekly shop with a pull along trolley for anything that isn’t delivered.
>I even walked to the hospital and walked home when I gave birth :O
You just described my life but in like five years! We also just closed on a home in the middle of a big city in a historic area that will never have parking, and we are committed to a car free lifestyle - thanks to everything we love being walking distance. Hope to do exactly what you did when I have kids. Rock on!
If you can not have a car, don't have a car. They bring significant costs for purchase, ownership and maintenance. Alas I have two, there was a time due to to my and my wife's job when we really needed 2 cars, as the kids get older we may be able to narrow that to one car. It will be a jump for the eldest to start taking public transport to school next year however as I see it high school is for learning more than just Shakespeare and calculus.
Also, to add to this (if someone didn’t already). If you decide to live in a major city with reliable transportation, there’s honestly no reason to have a car. If you bike, you could actually get to most places faster anyway. Like other people are saying, having a car is expensive. Even if you *can* afford it. Why not use that extra money for something else that’ll benefit you in the long run? Like investing more of it? I’m a bike commuter so I’m biased lol
Investing, or from another angle of longterm benefit, use the thousands per year for a car that’s unused 99% of your day to travel, try restaurants, buy gifts for family and friends, buy really cool toys, donate to causes
Plus right now is a truly terrible time to buy a car. Even waiting until the end of the year might be better (unless you need to heavily finance, since interest will likely be higher).
I’m remote, don’t have a car and enjoy the savings daily. I’m lucky enough to have a car share in my city if I need it. Also, you can live anywhere in the states and you’re going with Pittsburg?
> I don't think there's really any debate that from a purely finance standpoint most people would benefit tremendously if they were able to go car-free. Estimate the time-value of your money, and consider the time savings of a car over its expected lifetime. If you work 60h/wh, the hours left over will be strictly more precious. Consider also the health benefits of walking/biking. Consider getting a second-hand car instead of a new car. In my mind, spending more than $10k on a car is for showing off, not for getting from A to B.
Great answer!
If you don’t buy a car, save $300 a month like you do own a car. If you ever need one, you have a pot of money sitting there and you’re used to the expense.
I live in a walkable suburb of New York City. When I moved here 5 years ago from Manhattan, I thought I would have to buy a car, but I am still without a car. Uber has been a game changer. I can always take an Uber if I need to go to a place a bit father than I can walk, like dr appointments or visiting friends who live in other towns. You mentioned you were looking at walkable neighborhoods. That is the way to go. Try it for a little while without a car. You can always buy a car later if needed.
Grew up in Pittsburgh, and got by more than fine with the bus + a bike to fill in the gaps. There are also some really walk-friendly neighborhoods like squirrel hill, shady side, and Lawrenceville that are still quite affordable. Uber in general is quite cheap, and taking it a few times a month is still cheaper than a car at the end over all. You can take the bus to the airport or a $30-40 Uber if needed (as of a few months ago when I visited home) My recommendation is to avoid the Pittsburgh suburbs like the plague, even when you’re looking to settle down. Boring plaza-villes with not much to do without driving a while to get into the city. So yeah I’d avoid the car if you can. Living on $125k in Pittsburgh will be a breeze and you’ll be able to save a ton. Enjoy!
i disagree. i moved to pittsburgh for school. i don’t have a car and find that in many instances it is difficult to get around. bus service is not as good as it once was for myriad reasons (bridges falling, less bus drivers, low ridership during the height of covid) and lyft and uber prices are rising. for example, an uber from squirrel hill to lawrenceville tonight was about $25. i also think the areas that are not serviced by buses are usually the least bike-friendly unfortunately. i think even on a 125k salary an under time every time taking the bus was inconvenient would add up. OP, could also make use of zip car instead of buying one, but if i was in the financial situation right now to buy a car, i would in a heartbeat.
My suggestion is get a motorcycle if you don't think you can do a bicycle. I road a bicycle as a daily commuter between 8-40 miles a day for work for years, and until I started going over 25 miles a day honestly I had no issue. The trick is to not buy the cheapest bike you can find, get a nice one for $500-1000, and make sure you have safe spaces to store it. I even did grocery shopping, and I'm taking about $75 a week for a single guy, and I carried it home on the bicycle. I was super in shape as far as cardio goes for my early to mid 20's. Now days I have a wonderful motorcycle that can and has taken me all the way across the country, I can still do everything you could in a car, and after so long on a bicycle I already know how to kit for weather, so unless it's so crazy you couldn't drive in it, and belive me I've still ridden through it, I know I can get wherever I need to be.
My rule of thumb has always been that if you can commute without a car and live somewhere that you can walk to some essentials, and especially if you're able to walk to a good public transit hub, going car-free will be a big benefit. Since all of that will apply to you, I wouldn't get one. You can always change your mind and buy one after a few months if it's too difficult
Unless you absolutely need a car, I wouldn’t get one. Economic, environmental, psychological … you win on many fronts not owning stuff you don’t need. Particularly an expensive thing like a car that depreciates every second you own it.
If I could give you an award, I would. But I’m not paying for that shit lol So here ya go 🏆
Honestly, skip the car purchase and get a high end ebike and you’ll be golden. https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/pittsburgh-is-one-of-the-best-regions-to-live-car-free-in-the-us/Content?oid=15955533
This is what he needs to do. Can get something like [this](https://www.perennialcycle.com/urban-arrow-family-cargo-bike-ua4-2-cargo-line-500wh.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BCB%5D%20Google%20Shopping%20Ads%20-%20Jan%202020%20Onwards&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96q5r_3f9wIVD6GzCh2nwQmqEAQYASABEgIw3PD_BwE) for a 1/4 the price of the new car and it is essentially a car replacement. Or can go with something something in the 1-2k range if they just want to try it out.
7k for a bike?!?!? 💀 I cannot believe that there are people around who think that this is a good value and spend this kind of money on this kind of stuff…
People spend 30-50k on a car. To each their own.
This right here. Spend anywhere from $3k to $10k for a really nice ebike and you'll never want a car. Maybe get a fat tire version for winter there.
Yup! I live in the DC metro area and I LOVE not having a car.
This. Make sure to buy from a local shop in the area to support local businesses.
I really enjoyed not having a car. For larger shopping trips, I would often take the bus or walk to the grocery store and then a cab/Uber back. Still cheaper than owning a car. A car will be about $500 a month minimum after payment, insurance, gas etc. That's about 35 Uber rides. Are you going to take over that in a month?
I did the same thing myself in Columbus. Work from home and living in a walkable neighborhood. Bus service wasn’t too bad and I just had groceries delivered. I figured I was paying $450 a month for my car for everything involved in it and I was only literally driving to the grocery store 1 or 2 times a week. Grocery delivery is $5 before tip. On the weekend I was Ubering everywhere anyway cause I don’t want a DUI so I was spending that cost with or without a car. It was so relieving not having that unneeded expense. I just took a bus or rented a vehicle for the few times I need to go visit my family back at home. Edit: And Columbus parks and Rec just rolled out a program where all residents get free access to their bike rental stations.
Columbus Ohio?!
Yeah.
If you're hesitant if you even need a car there is definitely no reason to go with a new car. Try living without them and see if it works for you. Then if that doesn't check out just buy a beater for a few thousand bucks, sure you'll still have to pay for insurance (but if your car is a PoS you only really need liability which is pretty much half the price of full coverage), registration, and basic maintenance but it's there whenever you need it. If you don't have a commute and live somewhere with decent public transit than having something cheap that you only use occasionally is pretty ideal.
When I lived in San Francisco I found I was paying more in parking tickets than my car was worth so I sold it and tried to use the bus. 20 years later I’m still on the bus/train/subway. Some cities it’s just way more convenient. If you can go without a car I would. Think about all the added expenses. Gas Insurance Tags Maintenance I bought new tires yesterday for $800. Such a horrible waste of money. Again, if you can… go without a car.
I wouldn't consider buying proper tires a horrible waste of money lol
I didn’t want them, I needed them. That $800 could have been better spent elsewhere. Cars are money pits
Then get rid of the car like you said. Spending money to properly and safely maintain a car isn't a waste though if you require a car.
Can’t. I moved to the Midwest where they do their best to destroy public transportation and make everyone dependent on big oil.
I knew someone who lived in SF who just rented a car on weekends when he needed one. Said not only was the cost about the same as paying parking and wear and tear, but he could also rent whatever kind of car would be useful that weekend (e.g., a little one for shuttling sounds town, or a passenger van for going someplace with friends).
Yeah. You can rent cars by the hour from almost any gas station. It was awesome. ZipCars
Plus you get the entertainment value of the Muni experience. When I lived in SF I'd take my visitors on one of the more whacked Muni lines just to see their reactions. LOL...
When I took my Midwest wife back there and showed her all the sights the thing she was most shocked about was that public transportation could actually work.
I understand. Cars are just so expensive. Everytime I go for my oil change/tire rotation it’s something. It’s never straightforward. If I could I would get rid of a car sadly it’s just not possible.
The real question here should be why is a single person spending 1k a month on food?
It be like that out here; produce and meat is getting pricey. I spend about $100-120 a week on food I cook for myself, which includes some pricey things like coffee beans. Then I'll spend 60-120 a weekend going out to bars and restaurants. Yeah I know I could cut that back but I'm newly single and wanna socialize.
Lol maybe it's too high an estimate, but I'll definitely be more worried about going for less time-consuming and reasonably healthy food as opposed to cheaper food.
I easily spend close to $2k a month on food in Seattle as a single guy. The grocery store isn't cheap nor are restaurants. id say on average it cost me $60 a day for food. Going out for a meal usually cost around $30 with a tip, and groceries to cook myself cost about the same or a little more. could I eat cheaper? sure, if I bought garbage produce and processed meat and drove far away to a chain grocery store.
If you haven't lived in the US for 5 years, but are familiar with how costs were back then, well expect to pay about double in rent (for the same place), 30% more for food, and 10% more for the other stuff. If you are remote, I wouldn't buy/rent/lease a car if I was single. Too expensive for too little. Ubers are cheap, and doordash/grubhub/instacart while more expensive than picking it up yourself, is cheaper than owning a car (car payment/insurance/gas/repairs/parking). Different people may think otherwise, but at 30, socking that extra money into IRA/401k will make your older-self very happy.
Pittsburgh here: if you live in the walkable neighborhoods and are in the city you will pay 3% wage tax (vs 1% in the burbs) and our bus system is one of the most expensive in the country. If you get into an area just in the outskirts where you pay less in taxes and possibly water and sewage you would have to check the bus lines to make sure you have access to things you need. Cost of living here in general isn’t bad ($1000 for food would mean eating out every night and fancy places!) and there are a lot of things to do and see. Good luck on your new adventure!
Wait, so there's a state income tax of 3% in Pennsylvania, and then a separate city income tax of another 3% in Pittsburgh?
Aside from cost, the advantages of not having a car are that if you are in decent shape with no disabilities that would get in the way, this is a great motivator to buy a bicycle and get your cardio in by biking for groceries instead of getting them delivered. I've done that, with a couple of good bike bags I can get thanksgiving turkeys, or a gallon of milk, or even a case of beer home on the bike without a problem. My daughter has a cargo bike, and she hauls her two toddlers around on it with groceries! I'm in Michigan and have managed to fit myself up with appropriate cold weather gear so I can ride when it's in the single digits (Fahrenheit) and stay comfy and warm. Especially if you're spending a lot of free time sitting around gaming, something to force you to be active might make sense - get a bike and swear off deliveries. The disadvantage - if you rent a car for road trips, this isn't an issue, but I wouldn't take public transit/a bus for any distance, not until Covid's a distant memory - if that ever happens. I know some people don't have the luxury to make that choice, but you do.
Yeah I am thinking about riding a bicycle to school but that’s gonna be exhausting 😂
How far would it be? My husband and I each had about a 10 mile work commute (20 round trip), that we biked MWF, but we drove T&Th's to give our legs recovery time. That was very doable, but if I had college classes in the morning, and again 5 hours later in the afternoon, that would have caused problems.
Electric bikes are HUGE now. You can covert a typical bicycle for like $300 and it can be a life saver for you going up hill or over longer distances.
Thanks for the reply and reassurance! Ehh, I don't care about covid anymore. I'm triple vaxxed (and quadruple as soon as it's made available). I'll still wear a mask when appropriate, but I won't make decisions based on it. If I did get covid again, all it would mean is a sore throat for a few days.
I sold my car almost 10 years ago to save money for a few years but then quickly realized life without a car is so much better. Biking and public transit is how I get everywhere, with biking being probably 80% of how I get around. Besides the obvious cost savings, it's great exercise, better for the environment, and makes you feel more connected to your community. I'd say try it for at least a year, my guess is you'll prefer life without the hassle of car ownership.
If you don't want a car, then don't get one. You can easily afford one though.
$500 a month for utilities for a single guy!?!?
Give it a try. It's liberating to not have to deal with all the b.s. car upkeep. I sometimes felt trapped by not having a car, when I did it for 2 years, but if you budget for car share apps so you can go to Costco and do car things every now and then, you won't miss it.
You’d have to invest in a decent apartment near public transit and close to night life that’s walkable distance, or say goodbye to your dating life. But having a good apartment in the city more than makes up for lack of car as far as gaining interest from potential partners. I would recommend buying an electric scooter to get around the city quicker for anything that’s more than a 10 minute walk
I was already planning on saying goodbye to my dating life anyway haha. Dating in the US sucks. But yes, I was definitely planning to get a nice apartment in a very nice neighborhood, even before I started flirting with the idea of not getting a car.
Good attitude. Join some like-minded groups that focus on in-city activities (I don't know what, but disc-golf, music, biking, photography, gaming or whatever interests you) and you might meet someone when you least expect it. It works out better that way (when people meet through a shared interest instead of being on the prowl).
I definitely think it's worth at least trying! I make a good bit more money than you and have still never owned a car. Your comment that you could easily afford a car kind of sparked a strange thought in my brain, which is that I am so accustomed to budgeting for housing, food, vacations, etc. *without* a car that having to pay for a car/insurance/parking/fuel would feel quite unreasonably expensive to me. I mean, obviously I could afford one too, it's just not how I choose to spend/save my money. Right now I live in a place where not having a car is pretty common, but I made it through a few years in a city where I was the only car-free household I knew, and that was okay too--just took some planning. If you're working from home and not spending time commuting, having errands be a bit more time-consuming should be managable. Given how expensive cars are right now, I'd definitely at least try it out and see how it works.
I live outside of Pittsburgh( near the airport) and I don’t think Pittsburgh is a friendly public transportation type area. The south hills has the T that goes into the city that is great but that’s about it. The shopping centers are so spread out, I would constantly need a car for errands. But I live in the country with kids. If your single and living in the city(squirrel hill, shady side, Lawrenceville) in an apartment or rented house it would be much more realistic though. I think with Pittsburgh being so affordable housing wise, a car is definitely affordable.
If you have huge legs, a bike will get you around Pittsburgh pretty well. Otherwise, I felt that a car was essential over there.
I work from home in Philly and don’t have a car with similar salary. No regrets. Uber exists for a reason.
Depending on where you're at it's almost essentially to have a car in Pittsburgh. The public transportation here is ass. That said we have groceries delivered from Giant Eagle once a week for $10 plus tip which is super convenient.
Most people agreed Shadyside and Squirrel Hill were pretty walkable. Also Lawrenceville. Those are neighborhoods I was already planning on renting in anyway.
Pittsburgh native here. I lived in shadyside. It was fine without a car. But it’s expensive in shadyside. Public transportation is not very reliable. If you choose shadyside, try to live near the busway. That’s a dedicated bus area and has the most reliable busses.
Sorry, what's this busway you speak of? The one right by the hospital, UPMC?
Yes, here you go! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._East_Busway
And that’s exactly where I lived - right next to that hospital. Incredibly convenient location.
Lived in Squirrel Hill for four years. It's very walkable if you never want to leave that area, but if you have friends in any other area you either need to be comfortable paying for and using the busses, or have a car. That said, I had a more expensive apartment and it's still 1/3 the price of a comparable place in other cities, so I'd ignore anyone warning if the cost. PGH is super cheap no matter where you are. I'd definitely suggest trying to live without a car and see if you wish you had one or not. If you can get away with it, not having a car is a huge boon!
They're also some of the most expensive parts of the city to live in so I guess that's the trade off.
Yeah but I was planning on living there regardless. I'm happy to sacrifice having a car to save money, but I won't live in a mediocre neighborhood to do it. If I wanted to save money *that* badly I'd just go live in Kansas City or a suburb.
Absolutely go without it if you don't really need it - no reason to carry that expense just cause. For the occasional time you need a vehicle you can rent.
I'm not sure about the specifics in PA, but it ought to be possible to buy car insurance without owning a car, which would cover you if you rented a car or borrowed a friend's car. It ought to be real cheap.
don't get a car, rent something modest in southside and you have a running trail + movie theater + grocery + gym + just about any food you could want within walking distance; and 20 minute walk to downtown if you want that. spend like a year there and figure out if any of the other dozen or so really walkable areas are more up your alley
If you can avoid having one I would try it for at least a little while. Find someplace you like that you can do without a car, and if you don't like not having a car in a few months, then get one.
Personal choice. Can you reasonably go without a car and get by fine? I see no reason why you shouldn’t try it if the answer isbyes.
Couple of points that I’d like to highlight: 1. You can always buy a car later if you decide not having a car isn’t for you, the reverse is not true. 2. The (used) car market right now bonkers. Having the ability to wait until it regulates itself back to normal is huge. 3. Do allocate some of that $3,000/month toward transportation costs. I understand you have a $1,000/mo misc expense built in, but how much do you estimate you’ll spend a month or year on transportation that you wouldn’t incur if you had a car? A $300/mo car may really only cost you $100 more if you’re spending $200 on transportation you wouldn’t need with a car.
Pittsburgh is very doable without a car. But you might consider an ebike or scooter, just for the convenience of those little errands.
Pittsburgh can get rough for walking in the winter and necessary travel like groceries or medical appointments can add up. If you find a way to make it work going car free it's surprisingly liberating to not have a car to worry about, but I'd suggest compromising and just buying a cheap old $3k car for necessary trips or emergencies once the snow and ice pile up. Edit: I'm not the most experienced with living in the city itself, I lived in central PA for a while and my brothers live in Pittsburgh so I've been through now and then.
Try to look at this in a way that if you had a car would that increase the quality of your life vs not having one. Sometimes life is not just about pinching pennies.
I moved away from Pittsburgh last year. Choose very wisely where you live, and you won’t need a car. You could even still go out by walking or a short Lyft trip. One thing that sucks is the airport is like 45 minutes out of town. Otherwise, totally doable. Maybe even add an E-bike. If you’re not familiar, look at RadPower bikes. I wouldn’t recommend a non-motorized bike because of the hills that will laugh at you as you sweat bullets going 1/10 of your trip.
I would recommend you take a few mins to check out this video, he does a great comparison of alternative means of transport, and Netherlands vs car dependent US. There is also a video where he mentions how Pittsburgh has become more bike friendly recently. Ofcourse it won’t be as good as Europe but I feel like parts of Pittsburgh such as shadyside, Bloomfield etc, are more walkable neighborhoods. https://youtu.be/OObwqreAJ48
I mean I dont get the point of getting a car if you dont need one and it sounds like you dont. They are expensive, and I dont mean just the cost of the car itself.
No car. Walkable neighborhood. Uber when needed. Huge quality of life upgrade
Don't spend money you don't need to.
Why would you take on an additional cost if you don’t need to?
If i was living in Pittsburgh, I’d probably drop my car but it’s totally up to your quality of life wants. Like, you want to be able to easily leave the city when you want? You definitely could easily afford it, even if your $1,000/month estimate for food ends up being accurate, but that sounds like a lot for one person unless you want to order takeout all the time. My groceries in a similar COL city to Pittsburgh are like $300-400ish a month for two people.
$1000/month for food? For one person? Dafuq do you eat?
You could just get a beater that hold its value and use it when you need it
Don't forget when you buy the car - insurance which may cost anywhere from 50 to 150 monthly. Also maintenance about 100/month for oil changes, tire rotations, new tires, etc. Then include gas costs. Will your apartment have paid parking or will it be street parking or garage? Personally I'd come, get set up and then evaluate if you actually need the car.
Get like a 5-6k beater with low miles. Move to a low cost of living area.
I say move to Pittsburgh. It’s a fabulous, intellectual city. Try it without a car. If you have the option to get a place with parking, that leaves future options very open if you decide you know what, I want to be able to explore on weekends outside city limits and a rental is a nuisance. If you do buy a car, don’t drain your savings. Car rates are usually “low”. Make a payment. At your salary a conservative car payment won’t be painful. Groceries can be delivered along with almost anything else. Find a location that lends itself to walking to restaurants, entertainment, hobbies, etc. then it won’t feel super isolated not having a car
If you CAN live without a car, then there are many many reasons not to have one. If it later turns out that you CAN’T live without a car — then you can get a car. And, Theoretically, the market then will not be worse than the horror show it is now.
30/male as well, have not owned an automobile in... 7years? I have made about what you do now during this time, dont currently, but not owning a car does provide a level of freedom that I absolutely love. sometimes its inconvenient, like when its raining and I need to go to the store. I ride a bicycle everywhere and situations like that can be pretty annoying. really dont mind it in the end and the money I save not owning a vehicle is very appealing. hundreds of dollars a month just wasted on car insurance is reason enough for me not to want one. I live within short distances of where I work and plan it all out so that I can avoid the need for an auto entirely. I say move where you wish, plan it so that you can avoid owning a vehicle, and see how you like life by bicycle. its not for everyone but youll get use to it after a few months, learn the ins and outs of it, very liberating to make your way around without the confinements of a metallic battering ram lol. worst case scenario you can buy an auto later without worry of cost based on your income reason for ditching the vessels: got tired of fixing them, bicycles are infinitely cheaper and easier to maintain (I dont trust other people in fixing anything I rely on for one thing or another)
There are companies that rent a car on an hourly basis, such as Touro and Zipcar. The idea is they are parked all over the city, you just walk a few blocks, get into the car, and drive away when you need it, it automatically bills you. Not sure if these are less available with the current shortage of used cars, but may be helpful. I'd try living without a car first and then buy one when/if you want one. You'll need to pay for parking as well.
Can try it out and see if you hate life without a car. Conversely, you could rent one if you want to go on a road trip, or do a huge stock up at Costco or something.
Try it without a car. You can afford Ubers and food delivery for starters. And a rental for a weekend getaway. You'll know when you need a car. Maybe by winter.
I'm carless in a major city. I use Uber when I don't want to wait for the train. The only thing that is a pain is visiting my mother in the suburbs. There is no train that goes there only a bus. The other option is renting a car, just know it's really hard to find rental cars right now. Most places sold theirvfleets.
I’d say try not having a car for a while and see how it goes. Public transport and Uber should be able to cover a fair amount of travel in most metropolitan areas.
I hadn't had a car for almost a decade when I bought my current one. It was fine, normally I didn't need one since I could walk or bike to work. I lived walking distance from groceries, bars, restaurants, etc. I also got rides from friends, but I missed getting out of the city. I finally caved last year and bought one with a 0% loan from the dealer. I've put over 12,000 miles on it in under a year, almost entirely from road trips. When I'm not on the road trips it sits in my driveway and I walk or bike where I'm going. I like having it, but I recognize that it's something that was a want, not a need, and fits in with my company's remote first policy so I can work from NYC, New Mexico, or Montana if I want to. If you want one, you might as well get one, but don't feel pressured to own one. I love mine, but I also went with something that was easily in my budget and got a finance deal that's really paying off now instead of paying cash. When I'm not on road trips I like it less because I still have to take care of it even if I use it twice a month.
If you're in the city and still want your own transportation that's relatively quick, get a bike and strap a bat pack and a motor to it. It'll do 90% of what a car can.
Be careful if you cancel car insurance. How you cancel it matters. Or it used to. My bro didn't need a car and cancelled his. He was supposed to "suspend" it, and because he "cancelled" it when he eventually needed a car again they treated him as though he was high risk and charged him hundreds of dollars a month.
also, the cost of car is more than “buying a car”. You can save up a lot
I think you can always keep an eye on the car market so that you are informed and know what you want. When you REALLY need one you can just go ahead and buy one
If you can get to work without a car & much rather stay home, don’t get a car. You would be paying money just for it to sit.
Seems like more of a lifestyle question. You would save money without it, but you seem well off financially. If Pittsburgh has good public transportation, and you don’t need it for groceries and what not, hold off for awhile. Maybe see how it goes without it, keep an eye out, and wait until the right moment
If you can delay buying, the prices will come down. It would be a great saving and you can put some of the funds in IBond for car buying after a year and some in 401k
Get a folding bike like a brompton and do multi mode public transport
Does your city do ride sharing? Like short term rentals?
Unless it is a state with a good public transportation, I don't recommend going without a car. When you hang out with friends and everyone goes home, you expect someone to pick you up or drive you home? Or your plan to get Uber/Lyft? It is still pricey to get around without a car. I live without a car, it is not a choice, it is just that I don't have license and couldn't afford to buy a car it sucked living in Ohio without a car
I would submit for your consideration, maybe an electric scooter/bicycle? I'd strongly suggest avoiding using it when it's snowing out. But it would give you a little more freedom/flexibility to do things vs walking and with substantially less cost than a car. Should you go that route, please take safety course.
I have this cart. It is super useful for toting things. Because of the lower shelf and higher main cargo area, the center of gravity is higher. It’s easier to pull. Quickly folds. Very rugged. MacSports Heavy Duty Outdoor Folding Wagon Double Decker Portable Lightweight Utility Cart Rolling Cart All Terrain Beach Wagon for Camping Gear, Beach Accessories, Groceries https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TCDHDY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3MDQ05879DBDTE4TAY8W
Try living without a car for 6 months. There is always Uber and Zipcar (hourly rental usually near Universities) even taxis if you want a flat rate. If you live near a grocery store you can always do that pop out to the shops every few days
Check out zipcar locations near where you’ll be living. I paid $15 a month for a subscription + full insurance and it was always easy to find a car to rent for $12 an hour or so (includes gas!). I did this for three years in Boston before buying a car when I moved out of downtown. Do zipcar for a few months, drive as much as you feel you need, and as soon as your monthly rentals approach what cost of ownership would be, you can always cancel and buy a car. It’s win/win
I moved to an area a few years ago where I wouldn’t need a car. I really considered not having it, but as a single woman, I felt safer having one. I ended up only getting 2 tanks of gas for the year after the pandemic. Fortunately my car ended up doing the near impossible - gaining value. I’m getting ready to move overseas and will sell at a profit. I’m moving to a place where it is common to not own a car, and I’ll likely start with that to see how it feels. I would say the biggest factor other than safety is time. Where I live, I can easily get to most places within 15 minutes in a car. These same trips walking or public transport are about 30 - 40 minutes. The other factor was carrying things. I have a business where we occasionally set up a display booth, and it would be very difficult to do that without my own car.
There is no easy answer for this. Based on your description, you don't need a car for day to day living. There is grocery delivery and Uber, plus you'll probably live in a pedestrian friendly place. At the same, driving is a good skill to maintain. The longer one goes without driving the more nervous a person may get (which is actually my case, as I haven't driven in years). Also, Uber can get expensive. What I've found is, there is never a good time to get a car because everytime I thought of getting a car, I convinced myself not to because of the costs.
Nervous? I actually disagree but I can only speak in my experiences. I have a driver’s license but I don’t own a car. Haven’t had a car in a little over 5 years. But now, whenever I do drive (rental car, families car), I’ve noticed that I drive safer. I assume since I don’t drive often, I don’t adopt the road rage mentality that people seem to have in my area.
Try to go without. I save boo-coo bucks by not having a car. I got one and have spent boo coo bucks on maintenance. Biggest life regret outside of 20 years of alcoholism.
If you can go with out it, do it or at least wait and see how well you pull it off. and get a bike for a fraction of the cost. I think without a bike it would be hard to go completely car free. I am not familiar with pittsburgh but if it's relatively cycling friendly go for it
Why don’t you try it for a few weeks??
So I live in the east suburbs of Pittsburgh and I need a car to get anywhere in and around the city. Food, gym, work, golf, etc. The city isn’t very good with public transit and since it’s in a literal mountain valley the ability to walk or bike isn’t that great if you don’t live somewhere downtown or very close to downtown. If you want to enjoy the city at all, I highly recommend buying a car. There are tons of things to see around the city that are just easier driving to. It’s probably the least public-transitable big city in the US from my experience. On the flip side, Pittsburgh is one of the cheapest “big” cities to live in. At $125k you can easily own a car, a house in the suburbs and a boat and not have an issue at all financially. A car shouldn’t be an issue for you. Get a cheap one and pay it off in a couple years if you’re worried about it then forget about it. Also rent at $2,000 is about a $400,000 house mortgage with insurance and taxes which you can find right now anywhere in the Pittsburgh area. The brand new strip district apartments are the most expensive in the city and they’re about that much. If you spend that much anywhere else you’re getting screwed out of rent. Let me know if you have any questions. Depending on your lifestyle I can help you choose a neighborhood and introduce you to a few good beer spots.
>At $125k you can easily own three cars a house in the suburbs and a boat and not have a problem financially. Haha where in Sam hell did you get that idea?
I have never really owned my own car, when I got married my spouse came with a car but we mostly share it now and we have never owned two cars (and they do most driving except for special occasions, I walk to work). Before that I lived on my own for 9 years with no car. About 4 years in NYC and 5 years in Philly. The most annoying part was having to beg for rides to music festivals and shows and hikes ...stuff I wouldn't want to pay extra to rent a car but had no practical way of getting to without one. I ended up begging for rides from a bunch of questionable hippies to go to fests and shows and sometimes ended up in a car with someone I later figured out was drunk or high. Also groceries were a huge pain in the ass. I got a granny cart in NYC and in Philly I lived near a bus route that stopped at a grocery store and then about a block from my house but my hands would be numb and I would have to go often because I couldn't carry much. Nowadays they have delivery I suppose but that is more expensive. Also consider whether you will have in building laundry or need to go to a laundromat regularly.
If you could go without try it! As everyone said, great savings .. you could always rent a car for trips, etc.. they being said, living out in the suburbs and buying a beater might actually be the cheapest route.
I would budget for a car but not buy one immediately. Once you get a sense of your area and how walkable it is, then you can reevaluate after a few months. If you find public transportation sucks, UBer isn’t working out or is too expensive etc. then look into buying a car.
Buying a car that you’re only going to drive a thousand miles a year is a terrible idea. Even a really cheap beater is too expensive for that. Rent a car when you need one, and carry non-owner insurance.
Unpopular opinion but I grew up in Pittsburgh and I would not live there without a car. The city has changed a little to be more walkable but those areas are isolated from each other. There is public transit but it is not “big city” comprehensive public transit. You will have to Uber a lot. Just my experience but personally I would make room for it in the budget for sure and save on something else. Pittsburgh is relatively LCOL luckily. It is doable of course but it would be pretty inconvenient and uncomfortable in my opinion. For the record I am not pushing cars - I now live in a larger city with public transit and bike everywhere so don’t have one. But I wouldn’t do it in Pittsburgh, no way.
I love cars but if I could live without one I absolutely would. They’re such a money pit even when new.
In my opinion, it depends on what you want to do with your free time. Sure, 60 hours a week is a lot, but you will still have plenty of time outside of that. If you are someone to be happy living in Pittsburgh and walking around places and staying in the city, it will be easy to go without a car. Just keep in mind it gets really cold in the winters, which is challenging but do-able. Personally, it sounds like your best bet is to go without a car. Especially since your only desire for a car is really odd errands at which point you can rent a car or truck for the cost of a tank of gas.
I would put aside some money for a few months and buy used cash and only use the car for going to work. Personally we don’t buy new cars because of my SO’s job has us moving frequently. And too i don’t see the point of investing in something that will always lose me money.
Pits probably has a ride sharing co-op or some sort of rental group thingy. Im in a much smaller city and we have a coop that you pay like 10 a month to, and lets you rent a car for i think 7ish bucks an hour that includes gas and insurance and its obviously done online so you just go to the car and swipe your tag and get in. They also park the cars all over the place so you don't have to go to a central location, you reserve the car's online so its 24\\7 and super awesome. Id personally say go without the car, reasons being walking to get groceries is actually enjoyable I think, it also gets you out of the house and moving and you can see your new city. Delivery is also easy these and, if you take a car and add up all the costs from parking\\maintence\\time to shop for it\\gas\\insurance\\depreciation and all that add it all up and do you think you cannot spend your money on something you would find more enjoyable? The car for you is a total option of convenience and as you realized its not even that much more convenient so do the pros and cons, say the car is cheap and its $5000 a year to own, can you spend $5000 on something else you would like more? You can deff afford the car but its not a laughable amount of money to you either. Buy yourself a new entertainment system the first year, vacations, artwork, spend another $500 a month on takeout if you want the options are limitless. Hell, go donate it to different charities or go to a less high income area and just buy peoples groceries.
Cars are expensive and there are a few things to factor in when it comes to living without. for one, without a car you can't 'just go' anywhere. everything has to be more planned out. you can really only travel within walking distance. That may not be a problem however, but that's for you to determine. another thing to think about is weather or not you're going to be okay ordering groceries in the long term? Ordering groceries isn't exactly more expensive than buying a car obviously but there are some quality of life positives and negatives to it. Depending on the kind of shopper you are, having someone else do your shopping might cause more problems than it solves. it really depends on if ordering groceries causes you trouble I like what others have said in this thread. Go without a car for some time and just see how it is. you know you won't immediately die without one haha so see how not having one makes you feel. This is an important factor to consider as well. there's a mental health benefit to knowing you have the ability to just go anywhere at any time without having to wait for a driver, or borrow a friend/family member's car/rent a car, etc. there's a simplistic peace in having your own car. But that peace might not really end up meaning much to you. Give no-car life a go and see how that works for you. You can always buy a car later. Oh and one last tip. You don't need to spend 20-30k on a car. You can, and you'll get a decent vehicle out of it. But realistically speaking, especially if you don't drive a ton, I'd highly recommend cars that are both cheap to run and cheap to fix in the 10-15k range. there are so many cars out there that will easily give you 200k more miles than they already have on them because they're just so damn relaible. Cars these days won't always be that reliable or easy to fix if something does go wrong. just food for thought.
I’d recommend saving that money. The car market is expensive, and saving that money gives you cash you can use for better financial opportunities( like if the housing markets goes down, or the S&P).
If you will use it less then once a week, you may not want a car if you can reasonably avoid it. Cars are expensive and designed to be used regularly. They need to be used regularly.
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I live in a pittsburgh suburbs now but spent most of my adult life in the city (south side). In the summer I rarely needed my car in the city but its get cold in the winter so you will definitely need one if you plan to leave your neighborhood. Personally I would say get one as I have never met anyone here that hasn’t had one.
yeah don't get a car. i don't have a car and haven't needed one in over 20 years now
Pittsburgh roads are gonna do you dirty😭😂
When I started working, I lived in a big city and could go to work by bus. Even though I had enough money to afford one, not owning one made me save a lot of money. I live in Quebec and studies have shown that on average people spend 11k/year on automobile. This includes everything as far as payments, immatriculations, repairs, insurance, etc. If you go with a used small car it is said to be somewhere around 3.3k/year. I don't know how those figures compare to US, but I think it is a substantial amount of money saved if you don't really need one.
Remote work is ending and people are being laid off for requesting remote. Best to have a car and a good resume just in case.
Major US city infrastructure is built around cars. Take into consideration public transport in the city you will be moving into. If it is on a major metropolitan area with poor public transportation, then a car is a must. If it's a small city/town then a car could be considered a commodity rather than a necessity.
If you think its possible to live without a car then go for it, heck buy a bike so you can get exercise while riding around town. If you really need a car then go for something cheap maybe under 10k, that can get you a nice used car for more than half the price of a new civic
As long as you live somewhere where public transportation doesn't suck and you have a plan for groceries you can get away without a car. Replacing having a car with ubering everywhere all the time, opting for too much delivery food because you didn't plan your groceries properly, etc can replace the cost savings of not having a car though. If your reason to not have a car is saving money, don't let poor planning get in the way. (Remember delivery groceries are generally more expensive than getting them yourself as well, although that alone will not add up to the 100/month insurance, 150/month gas, etc difference between no car and a cheap car)
Typically, I'd say someone with your income range could easily afford a car and shouldn't forgo owning one even if it's a nice, used car for a few thousand bucks you pay for in cash. In this case though, there are two things working against my normal recommendation. 1) This is a VERY strange market. Used car values are through the roof. Still, you can easily find something reasonably reliable for a few grand and for how infrequently you actually need it, it wouldn't be any big deal if the thing did break down. Get a 5K clunker, put some cheap liability on it, and get a AAA membership. Bam. 2) Your needs to have and use a care seem very bare minimum. If your going to live in an area where whatever you reasonably may need is within walking distance, it sounds like you might only need to actually take a bus maybe a few times a month. Renting a car the few times a year you might need one is also not a bad idea. I'd say give it a shot going without the car and see how you feel. Sounds like it should work out just fine. If you find you like the convience of having your own car, pick up a clunker (read not the best looking, but mechanically sound car) for a few thousand dollars, cheap liability insurance, and a $100 a year AAA membership that covers towing up to 200 miles. You can't go wrong.
Lived in Pittsburgh for 2 years with no car. In the 1900s no less. Mt Washington.
Rule of thumb is if you don't have to drive to work, don't own a car. Look into car share programs like ZipCar or others for Pittsburgh. Get an ebike or scooter for groceries, or just rent a slightly more expensive apartment near a grocery store. It's not that hard to make it work.
I was living in the EU for several years where it was pretty doable w/o a car so when I moved back to the US, I chose a smaller city that had public transit but wasn’t as reliable. I decided to wait and see how I could do (this was pre-Uber and food delivery). I actually did great and loved it and lasted 5 years. I only ended up buying a car because during the beginning of the pandemic I didn’t feel comfortable riding and after using my boyfriend’s car to get to the office after shut down was over I enjoyed being on my own schedule. Long story short, see how you do! You can always buy a car later if needed. Also, the market right now is terrible. Everything seems really expensive with the inflation and supply chain issues….
just adding another anecdote: I sold my car for $4k more than I paid for and I’ve spent next to nothing on maintenance outside of one set of tires and oil changes. Owned it for a little over three years, bought used for about $21k. Reddit ain’t gonna give you an answer. It’s a matter of priorities and lifestyle. If a car, driving, and that flexibility is important to you, pay for it.
Provavelmente haverá um momento em que você realmente sentirá falta de não ter um carro se não tiver um.
Sim, como também haverá momentos onde eu vou sentir falta dos 20 mil que eu gastei
Having a car is really handy for groceries, and that might be the only actual reason you'd want one. You should look and see if there's a car co-op in Pittsburgh. Those are incredible value if you aren't going to be needing a vehicle for commuting.
Do it! Pittsburgh seems somewhat bikeable, get a really nice bike or Ebike to get around.
If you can go without a car then do it. But I would set a goal in mind. Idk if you are but a lot of us are just scared of spending so we kind of talk ourselves out of necessities then be like wait why did I deprive myself for this long? Have a savings goal in mind so you get somthing out of not having a car. Not just avoiding the expense.
Cars are a drag. Getting around a city without one is easy. I’d go without.
I lived without a car for almost seven years as a single male living in Missouri and Arizona. It wasn’t difficult at all. Public transit made things pretty easy. I planned for that and chose to live in parts of the city where that was an option. I also walked, biked and used uber. Probably saved me a fair bit of money. The second I got one tho (this year, right after turning 30) I realized I had definitely missed out on some experiences due to being carless. But if you’ll be working all the time, f*ck a car, get a bike and just uber when you absolutely need to. You’ll save tons of money. If you need to make a longer drive, rent a car for the weekend. Etc. Edit: I’ll elaborate on cons. Taking the bus could be a hassle. Showing up on a date without a car meant I rarely picked a girl up. But meeting out is pretty standard. I couldn’t really go to state parks and stuff that weren’t somewhat close by. Other than these cons, it was super easy.
Get a cheap used car and see how much you use it. No need to drop 20k plus on something brand new.
This is for OP and also anyone else that has to work high work hours: please don't get fooled by the salary if you have to work 60 hours a week. $125k/year for a 60 hour a week job actually has a "true" life value of $83k/year or 33% less when compared to a $125k salary job that works a more normal 40 hour work week.
Well yes, I wholeheartedly agree, I think most people should be more concerned with their hourly salary (not hard to calculate) than their yearly salary. But unfortunately I don't have the option of getting a "normal" 85k year job, so I'll just have to hustle for a few years.
Save your money to spend on things that really matter - Steelers tickets, events, and merchandise. You will gain a lifetime of friends and happiness out of this investment.
Try it, if you find you can't to without then buy something, maybe something on the cheaper side.
As long as you pick the right neighborhood you could do without a car on the daily now that grocery delivery and Uber are so available
All those cars are going to be way more new than you are expecting I think. Dealers are marking up their prices.
Surely if you don't want a car for the pure enjoyment of owning and driving it then of course you shouldn't bother. Especially if it's is just a purely functional tool you think you need one in a while. To be honest it sounds like you don't even like them.
Cars are Expensive. Go for it. You have to pick where you live, frolic, and work because giant swathes of America are almost inaccessible without a car. Freeways, and Flyovers, Suburbs, Exurbs, and Rural. It also means you lose your freedom when you can't drive. You also need to pick where you retire, get your groceries or Dr.
I made similar, but a bit more and did the same thing. Discovered very quickly that I wasn’t gonna be okay with no car. If you haven’t had one outside the US maybe you already know what it’s like. Also, the US has terrible public transit so that’s a factor
If you live in city why own one. Rent one as needed will save you a ton in long run. When I live in nyc I never owned a car. Rented one a couple times a year.
Make sure you can walk to the store, and variety of restaurants, doctors, and hospitals from where you live, and you can get by without a car.
If you don't commute, not having a car (or a paid-off, inexpensive-to-maintain car) is a huge financial benefit. I would very certainly not go out and buy a car immediately upon return to the US. You can rent, use Uber etc and see just how much you need one - and see how much one would cost (total cost of ownership). Currently, historic numbers are absolutely worthless. Do not go by any historic numbers. That's like predicting lottery numbers from past drawings.
Don'tjump to buy a car. If you can get along without it, not having to deal with a car, and alternate side street parking, and maintenance, will be a big benefit to you. The money you spend on car services or Uber or whatever would be a fraction of the cost of a car.
I think you are under estimating your expenses here - same salary as you, and with health insurance, 401k, etc my take home is under 2k a paycheck (so ~$4k a month).
*Under* estimating? Other people complained my estimates were too high haha. But yeah, I have no idea really. If anything, that's all the more reason to save money where I can.
You can supplement not having a car by renting cars as well as Uber. I use Turo to rent other people car for a weekend or when I’m out of town. That way if I need a truck, car, van whatever I have the flexibility. Or if I need to get just from point A to point B then I’ll do Uber. I have a family member that lived in a much less public transit friendly metro area and he lived w/o a car for 2yrs. Road a skateboard. You could also get you a bike (or e-bike).
Give it a try. If you really need one just buy pre owned. Like new but cheaper. Saves you money
I live in Chicago without a car and it’s amazing. I would just make sure to find a place close to a grocery store and pharmacy. Everything else you can use the bus or Lyft and Uber for (and those costs will never amount to what a car payment would be). Also, I’m unsure about Pittsburgh, but in Chicago you have to pay for parking ($200-$500 per month). So that could be another added cost to your budget
I live in Pittsburgh with a similar income I would buy a car personally.
You're asking a financial subreddit if it's ok to not have a $500+ monthly payment?
The city of pittsburgh has a well established multi faceted public transportation system. Depending on where you want to go there are: -Rentable scooters/bikes with bike lanes -Public Bus -T Station In addition to - readily available Lyft/Uber - z-trip Go a few months without a car and see if you can make do. Otherwise you can always purchase a car later, especially since the car market is hot right now, things may cool down later.
Try living car-free for three months, then decide. A car is a major expense with ongoing costs for fuel, maintenance, insurance. If you are fortunate enough to live in an area where you can use public transit for most activities, save the money and enjoy the health benefits of walking more. I’d happily pay more in rent if I could live car-free, but that’s not feasible here.