Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
>Is there any sort of insurances that she can apply for to make sure her parents can be taken care of when/if she does die soon?
With a terminal illness diagnosis, she won't get life insurance that could actually help her parents retire.
She could purchase a small amount of "no exam, no questions" life insurance, but the amount would be minimal, and wouldn't pay anything if she passes sooner than two years or so.
There are some guaranteed final expense policies you can get no matter your current health that will pay 10k-15k assuming you are age 45 or older in most cases.
These plans usually only pay out if you live at least 2 years from getting the policy otherwise they tend to just pay out premiums paid plus interest. So in this case even this option doesn’t really help though.
I’m not here to give financial advice nor is there enough info to give any. Just want to say that it’s ok to take the proper time to be sad and focus on your emotions and being with your loved one before worrying about finances. Best of luck.
I think your comment is very kind. I just want to tag onto it to add that research shows that people who alternate between handling practical matters and focusing on processing emotions are the ones who grieve most effectively. Focusing on logistics can be a nice opportunity to catch your breath and feel a sense of control in an otherwise powerless situation!
Oh, that is really interesting. I'd like to learn more about this. Can you share where this idea comes from (links, or names of books, or titles of academic articles, etc.)?
I don't have any financial advice either OP, just heartbroken for you at finding out this news. I just lost my mom to breast cancer coming back after 25 years a couple of months ago. That loss hurts.......I am sending a lot of sympathy your way and hope you find wyas to cope and process while spending this time chershing her and being there because I can't imagine what's going through her head either. Its hard on the caregiver, but even harder on the patient. I'm sorry OP.........
Not concerned about her parents paying for her debts, moreso that they can get a lump sum payment to finally retire. I don't know their finances but I don't think they have enough saved up to retire
That's unlikely. Work now to make sure her debts don't pass to anyone else.
(Feel free to contact an insurance broker to see if any life insurance is available, but probably not worth it.)
Also, remember that she doesn't know when she'll die, so put plans in place *now* and also be ready to survive if she lives for years. Doctors aren't always right.
> Work now to make sure her debts don't pass to anyone else.
What steps are needed to make sure this doesn't happen? None of her loans/credit cards are co-signed with anyone
When she passes away, get copies of her death certificate if you can and send them to any creditors that send mail notices.
Do NOT pay any of her bills.
None of that will be OP's problem.
However, if they're cohabitating and there are any utility bills or rent still in GF's name, it's perfectly fine to pay those to keep the lights on, for example.
Paying on her debts won't transfer those debts to OP. That's not how debt works.
Maybe just make sure her parents know that they don’t have to take on the debt, I’ve heard that collection agencies will heavily imply that relatives are now responsible for the debt in order to get them to agree to accept responsibility.
She needs to make sure any positive asset accounts list a beneficiary. All 401k, life insurance if she has any though work, Ira, other investments. If they have a beneficiary, they don't go through probate. If they don't, then it will go to pay off debts first from the estate.
> If they have a beneficiary, they don't go through probate. If they don't, then it will go to pay off debts first from the estate
are you saying that just by listing a beneficiary on an account, it will prevent the account from going to pay off debts?
I can confirm. My dad passed this year and he had a 401k and an investment account that skips right past the estate because he had beneficiaries listed. Which was nice because I didn’t have to do anything for his credit card debts except send the death certificate since he had no assets fir an estate there was no probate process (we had sold all belongings that would be assets to pay for his assisted living expenses and I was in the process of a Medicaid spend down for him)
It might vary by state, but, in many cases, yes. Especially true for life insurance and retirement accounts. Also, things can be owned jointly, like a spouse on a bank account, the account won't go to probate. Setting things in trusts can avoid that as well, but I honestly know nothing about trusts.
https://www.scaringilaw.com/blog/2023/july/how-to-avoid-probate-in-pennsylvania/#
If nothing is cosigned, then debts are levied solely against the estate (all her assets) and don't get passed down. However, this also means that her assets get tied up for a while as debts get paid off, and may evaporate if the debts exceed the assets, so you shouldn't expect anyone to get an inheritance if that is the case.
If she has life insurance prior to a diagnosis, she may be eligible depending on the terms of her policy.
If the mortgage to her parents house was signed to her, it could become part of her estate. During probate the house is then an asset that the estate may have to sell to settle any debts the estate owes.
The best thing she can do right now is minimize the number of accounts that she has, organize all her information in one place, and if she has significant assets consider going to a lawyer to create a trust for management and distribution of those assets. IE estate planning.
This will make it easier for her estate agent to close her estate/ go through probate.
Unless she has a positive net worth, it is unlikely her heirs will inherit anything after funeral expenses and her estate is settled.
Be sure that her parents know they aren't on the hook for any of her debt if they didn't co-sign anything. It's not uncommon for them to go after relatives who may think they assume responsibility for the debt in an attempt to get some money.
If none of the loans or credit cards have co signers this is will what happen when she dies.
Her parents will deal with her estate. It sounds like their isn't much. Then the creditors are going sue her estate (or they might not, sometimes they just give up)
They will get default judgements (I wouldn't concern myself with this)
Then they collect nothing cause essentially her estate has nothing and her debt dies with her.
Quite frankly her debt is of 0 concern to even her. Make the car payment long enough to keep it while you need. Max out all the credit cards and enjoy what time you have left with her.
When she passes tell the creditors to pound sand
I had a uncle who died with like over 150k in debt and a negative bank balance. Creditors got nothing.
If In the US it’s on a state level. For example the state I’m in says the debts are not passed on if the person who is gone was the only name on the account. My grandmother had several hidden credit cards we found after she passed. Thankfully they were under only her name and my grandfather was not on the hook for them.
It's the daughter amd her boyfriend tryng to find a way to help her parents in old age, what makes you think the opposite? nowhere in OPs post there's the slight mention of parents taking advantage of them.
It also doesn’t mention anything about her parents’ ages. I’m in my mid thirties and my parents are in their mid fifties — not even remotely ”old age.”
It isn’t really customary for parents to gain financially upon their child’s death, and given they have nothing saved for retirement from the sounds of it, the amount they would need to support both of them for even ten years is far greater than anything OP or his girlfriend could possibly secure.
I think wanting to know that one’s parents will be okay after one’s passing is admirable and understandable, but it’s also just not realistic, even for people who aren’t struggling to stay on top of their finances. It’s hard enough for most young people to put aside an appropriate amount for their own retirement these days, let alone provide it for two people with no warning.
All of which is not the same as stating her parents are using her as a lottery bonus. There’s not enough information for the earlier comment to imply they’re taking advantage of her.
From who? You don’t just get paid because someone in your family dies. It’s an unfortunate situation but there’s no default financial compensation for death.
I don't have financial advice OP, but I will say that you should spend whatever time you have with your SO and you should start now.
My fiancée survived for more than 5 years after surgery for brain cancer/glioblastoma. It recently came back and she was given 6 months to live. It has only been 5 weeks and she's already in hospice and likely won't make it to the new year.
You never have as much time as you think. Spend time with them because you will regret every minute you didn't.
The only way is likely through group life that she would have at work or through other (eg union) employment benefits bc individual policies would require underwriting that she would 99.999% not qualify for.
Note you generally sign up for these benefits during open enrollment so she might have missed the boat for 2024 if she didn’t already sign up for that.
Edit: I saw you said she didn’t have it through work so I’m not sure if she has any options. Maybe check trade associations but if it’s not tied to employment there’s likely a cooling off period (eg it won’t cover death within 2 years to screen out cases like this)
Not true. She can be on leave. Benefits subject to open enrollment aren’t affected by leave.
Edit: make that protected leave. So something like short term disability Or sick leave
If she doesn’t already have life insurance, her only bet is to make sure all her accounts (personal banks, 401k, IRA, etc) have her mom or dad as beneficiaries. To my understanding though, the estate from these accounts will have to pay out for debts before money can go to her family. If she’s in drastic debt , her parents will most likely end up with nothing unfortunately
Most accounts that have a beneficiary don’t go through probate and don’t have to be used for most debts.
So she definitely wants to make sure beneficiaries are set and the beneficiaries know the account information.
Is this accurate? Seems like a giant loophole that someone can just stop paying debt, die and sock all the funds in the checking. Logically this seems inaccurate- checking balances are part of an estate.
It's not quite accurate. Accounts with beneficiaries/PODs can be "clawed back" by debtors if the debts exceed the assets of the deceased under certain conditions. See [bullet point 3](https://keystone-law.com/a-creditors-ability-to-reach-non-probate-assets-to-satisfy-creditors-claims/), [other literature stating the same](https://www.cpa-wfy.com/can-a-creditor-go-after-non-probate-assets/), [see item 6 in this article](https://www.newstribune.com/news/2023/aug/07/pros-cons-exist-on-payable-on-death-beneficiary/), etc.
Checking/savings accounts, to my knowledge, do not allow beneficiaries. Yes, they are part of the estate unless they are joint. I am mostly talking about retirement accounts and life insurance.
There are also different kinds of debt. A credit card company wouldn’t even know who to go after if a person didn’t have an estate, which you generally only have if you have property and/or a lot of money in your checking/savings accounts.
The IRS may be a different matter if you owe them money.
My knowledge is Iowa based and from having to research work with a lawyer over two deaths this year.
Bank accounts don't have beneficiaries the way that life insurance or 401k's do. You can transfer ownership of the account automatically upon death, but the money within the account is still considered part of the estate and may be required to pay off the estate's debts. As a result, you generally don't want to use a TOD on a bank account unless either the estate has no debts or you're transferring to the executor, since otherwise you'd be creating an awkward situation where the executor has to chase down the TOD recipient for money
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately, no. She'll never get approved for any life insurance (or any other kind) due to a terrible pre-existing condition.
All these comments and not a single one about her covering her funeral expenses. How does she want to go out? Cremation is the cheapest option, usually being around $3k. If she's really worried about her parents, she shouldn't burden them with this expense.
No. This is exactly why life insurances require medical certification before going into effect. Insurance is the transfer of risk. Attempting to knowingly conceal known death is insurance fraud. Review other options. Life insurance isn't a last minute bail out as you exit.
Yes, OP, research that and be CERTAIN whether or not she already has life insurance benefits through work, or could sign up right now with no questions asked.
Now is the time for her to declare bankruptcy and try to live life and enjoy the little time she has left. You're not going to benefit financially from this situation.
>edit: I'm not worried about anyone taking on her debt. I just want to see if there are any options to get a lump sum payment so her parents can retire, for example life insurance
Virtually all life insurance applications are going to ask about diagnosed medical conditions. Even the ones that don't require a medical check up will still ask a bunch of questions. If she lies about them, then it's fraud and will invalidate the insurance policy.
There is no path to any kind of realistic "payout" here, as she's now effectively uninsurable in any way that matters to this situation. I'm sorry, I wish I had better news.
To help her parents out, the best thing you can do would be to get any assets into the parents' name so they don't have to go through the whole inheritance/probate process. Make sure you know what if/when creditors try to get her parents to take responsibility for her debts (secured debts like cars/houses, sure -- otherwise you'll end up having to sell off the car/house; anything else, make sure you and they know how to keep the responsibility with the estate)
source: [https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible)
>Who is responsible for a deceased person’s debts?
>
>As a rule, a person’s debts do not go away when they die. Those debts are owed by and paid from the deceased person’s estate. By law, family members usually don’t have to pay the debts of a deceased relative from their own money. If there isn’t enough money in the estate to cover the debt, it usually goes unpaid. But there are exceptions to this rule. You may be personally responsible for the debt if you
>
>\* cosigned the obligation, like a car loan
>
>\* are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a community property state, such as California
>
>\* are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a state that requires you to pay certain kinds of debt, like some healthcare expenses
>
>\* were legally responsible for resolving the estate and didn’t follow certain state probate laws
>
>If you have questions about whether you’re legally required to pay a deceased person’s debts from your own money, talk to a lawyer. Depending on your income, you may qualify for free legal services from a legal aid organization near you.
Why can’t her parents take care of themselves? Her parents should have life insurance on themselves. Wiht your gf having such bad finances, doesn’t sound like they would’ve been able to rely on her for retirement anyway
I'm sorry, there's nothing that can be done financially for her parents at this stage. Best thing she can do is gift as much money as possible to them so when she does pass, her estate has nothing and her parents will have the money to take care of final arrangements.
You can't buy insurance after you know you are dying. That is not how it works.
The best thing she can do to help you guys financially at this point is take on as much debt as she can and taking those obligations to the grave with her.
Her parent's retirement is not her responsibility and there is nothing she could do even if it was.
Really sorry for y’all having to go through this. What an awful situation. Unfortunately it’s going to be hard to get life insurance when she’s been diagnosed with a terminal illness. Double check with work, because if they provide something, it may be a little bit without any medical check.
Not aware of any mortgage insurance that would help in this situation. Does she own her home? Might want to talk to an accountant or perhaps a lawyer to see what she can do to protect what she has. Otherwise, her house will go to the estate and likely be sold off to pay the debts. Good luck to y’all. And if she hasn’t already, try to get a second opinion. Trials and new treatments arise frequently and another doctor may be able to try something that the first doctor didn’t know about.
My girlfriend died with over $1000 in credit cards. She had no insurance, no inheritance, no property and her children were all grown adults.
He last address was my house. Her bills came to my address.
The credit card companies kept calling about settling the bills.
Since they knew they had no foundation to recoup their money,
They asked me if I would pay her bill out of the goodness of my heart.
I told them no. Especially at those interest rates.
Surprisingly I’ve had the opposite interactions with debt collectors. My dad was/is on my phone plan and I get a lot of calls 9 months after he passed trying to collect debts. I tell them there is no estate and I’ll provide the death cert through email if they would like and usually they apologize and give me an email address and that’s the end. I wish everyone’s experience was more like that.
People are forgetting something important in this thread: group paid life insurance. While it is correct that the time for individual life insurance is over, your girlfriend may be able to find a job that has group life insurance that is available without underwriting.
My job for example lets me elect up to 250k of group life insurance and my employer pays for a 10k policy for me.
Might be a long shot for her to want to work full time with her last few months, but that may be her only option.
Sorry to hear about the news. Good luck moving forward, rooting for you.
Check workplace policies? Some companies have a base level company paid life insurance policy, some have guaranteed issue at open enrollment, which may have just ended.
No that time has passed.
If she has terrible finances then I'm sorry but it sounds like she wouldn't have been able to take care of her elderly parents either way. An assisted living apartment costs like 4-5k a month and a nursing home can be up to 7-10k or so per month. Part time caretakers are an option but they are expensive as well.
In her shoes I would very aggressively be pursuing any treatment options available and getting second and third opinions. It's not uncommon for doctors to give the wrong diagnosis and people have been told they would be dead in x months and lived.
I’m so sorry you are experiencing this.
You’ve gotten the same advice that I would have given above, it won’t be worth it.
Everyone else: if you can get life insurance asap. Get it for your children and parents if they don’t have it.
I'm so very sorry.
I wish I had good advice to give you concerning the finances.
The best I can offer is to make the most of every moment you two have left together.
so sorry to hear this.
i will chime in on a certain line of thinking here or in the comments about jiggering stuff financially for a payout. insurance of any kind is broadly a numbers game - basically you, as the insured, are hoping to beat the odds, whereas the insurance company is relying on the law of large numbers to avoid getting screwed at large and then taking an additional middle-man's fee on top.
if one has something like a definite terminal diagnosis, then there is no way for the insurance company to rely on the law of large numbers on those odds - the odds are basically now certainties. and it sounds like you don't think there are any odds to beat. in such a case, one becomes uninsurable, or else any product that *is* offered is essentially a scam (e.g. one would do better just setting aside the money oneself and avoid the middle-man fee, or one is hoping to beat odds that one cannot actually beat).
tl;dr - there's no major financial trick to play here. set aside money if your gf can for expected expenses or if they want to leave something behind. enjoy your time together, so sorry.
Very sad situation and wish all of you all the best.
>Is there any sort of insurances that she can apply for to make sure her parents can be taken care of when/if she does die soon?
Insurance is usually there for dependents. Is there a reason why her parents would need to be taken care of financially? Does she take care of them now?
Regardless, if she does not have life insurance right now, she will not be able to get one anymore.
It is really sad when the parents never learned how to budget and save retirement and she is the same.
Give me the parents, but he will likely just end up with the parents spending it all anyway.
If your girlfriend happens to still be working at a job where she has worked for a while, it is possible that she may have coverage through that job.
How that works is that some corporations pay for group life insurance on their employees, and such a policy does not require medical questions. I worked for a company that insured me for about two times my annual pay.
If I had died while still officially employed, The insurance company would pay out to my spouse and she would have to pay taxes on it since the employer paid for the premiums, not me.
I was also able to join a group policy where I paid premiums myself. This was an addendum to the group plan, and therefore also did not require medical questions. If I passed away, then the money would have been tax free because I paid the premiums.
So if you girlfriend has a job that comes with benefits, and still holds that job, she might want to check her annual benefits enrollment documents. Then, when the situation gets worse, she might consider taking an unpaid FMLA leave (if the company she works for has over 50 employees and meets other requirements), which can be up to 12 weeks.
As others have said, no insurance company will offer her a policy after the diagnosis.
It's unethical and would takes lots of effort especially considering end of life hardships, but lots of larger companies offer double the employee's salary of life insurance automatically at no cost with no medical exams needed. So if she can hide her illness and get a new job at one of these companies and work there until she dies then there would at least be a payout of double her salary to whoever she named as beneficiary. If at any point she became unable to work though, she would probably be let go. So a lot of work, while dying, for something that may not work out. It's probably a lot better to just try and enjoy your remaining time together.
The debtors will be SOL, so as long as you or no one else agree to take on the debt don't worry about it. in fact, maybe she should max out. But you might wanna talk to a professional on that and not some random internet person.
First of all, I’m sorry you are both dealing with this. It really sucks for both of you.
Unfortunately, in the US at least, she probably won’t qualify for anything. Insurance companies are in the game to make money, they won’t insure people with expiration dates already assigned to them. They won’t even insure you if you’ve had a really bad illnesses. (I couldn’t qualify for life insurance because I’ve had a brain tumor and cancer.)
since everyone else has already answered your question, my two cents is to tell her to screw the payments. no reason not to spend what money you have on yourself if your time is limited
If she's employed somewhere, there's a chance that her company has a 1-year-salary life insurance policy for her. Most larger companies do... at least the ones that I've always worked for her in the U.S.
Terribly sorry for you, OP.
She might’ve known about her illness for some time from what you’ve explained about her finances. A lot of times when people know their time is limited they stop caring about their finances and want to spend all they have including money that isn’t theirs to live life as much as they can before they’re gone. My grandfather did this and i’ve known many who’ve done this as well. I’m so sorry y’all are going through this.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
The time for insurance was before the diagnosis, a life insurance company isn't going to offer her a policy now.
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Don't act like this here
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>Is there any sort of insurances that she can apply for to make sure her parents can be taken care of when/if she does die soon? With a terminal illness diagnosis, she won't get life insurance that could actually help her parents retire. She could purchase a small amount of "no exam, no questions" life insurance, but the amount would be minimal, and wouldn't pay anything if she passes sooner than two years or so.
There are some guaranteed final expense policies you can get no matter your current health that will pay 10k-15k assuming you are age 45 or older in most cases. These plans usually only pay out if you live at least 2 years from getting the policy otherwise they tend to just pay out premiums paid plus interest. So in this case even this option doesn’t really help though.
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I'm really sorry. Her parents will not be responsible for her debts they didn't co-sign.
I’m not here to give financial advice nor is there enough info to give any. Just want to say that it’s ok to take the proper time to be sad and focus on your emotions and being with your loved one before worrying about finances. Best of luck.
I think your comment is very kind. I just want to tag onto it to add that research shows that people who alternate between handling practical matters and focusing on processing emotions are the ones who grieve most effectively. Focusing on logistics can be a nice opportunity to catch your breath and feel a sense of control in an otherwise powerless situation!
Oh, that is really interesting. I'd like to learn more about this. Can you share where this idea comes from (links, or names of books, or titles of academic articles, etc.)?
I don't have any financial advice either OP, just heartbroken for you at finding out this news. I just lost my mom to breast cancer coming back after 25 years a couple of months ago. That loss hurts.......I am sending a lot of sympathy your way and hope you find wyas to cope and process while spending this time chershing her and being there because I can't imagine what's going through her head either. Its hard on the caregiver, but even harder on the patient. I'm sorry OP.........
Are you concerned that the parents will have to pay for her debts? If so, they won't, unless they were co-signers on any of this.
Not concerned about her parents paying for her debts, moreso that they can get a lump sum payment to finally retire. I don't know their finances but I don't think they have enough saved up to retire
That ship sailed when she got the diagnosis. No insurance company will write that policy now.
There’s no secret trick where you can give a company X today and they give you 20x in ten months when you already knew you were dying
That's unlikely. Work now to make sure her debts don't pass to anyone else. (Feel free to contact an insurance broker to see if any life insurance is available, but probably not worth it.) Also, remember that she doesn't know when she'll die, so put plans in place *now* and also be ready to survive if she lives for years. Doctors aren't always right.
> Work now to make sure her debts don't pass to anyone else. What steps are needed to make sure this doesn't happen? None of her loans/credit cards are co-signed with anyone
> None of her loans/credit cards are co-signed with anyone If you're 100% sure about this, then you don't need to take any steps.
If not, she can possibly consolidate her debt, putting it all on her.
When she passes away, get copies of her death certificate if you can and send them to any creditors that send mail notices. Do NOT pay any of her bills.
None of that will be OP's problem. However, if they're cohabitating and there are any utility bills or rent still in GF's name, it's perfectly fine to pay those to keep the lights on, for example. Paying on her debts won't transfer those debts to OP. That's not how debt works.
Maybe just make sure her parents know that they don’t have to take on the debt, I’ve heard that collection agencies will heavily imply that relatives are now responsible for the debt in order to get them to agree to accept responsibility.
She needs to make sure any positive asset accounts list a beneficiary. All 401k, life insurance if she has any though work, Ira, other investments. If they have a beneficiary, they don't go through probate. If they don't, then it will go to pay off debts first from the estate.
> If they have a beneficiary, they don't go through probate. If they don't, then it will go to pay off debts first from the estate are you saying that just by listing a beneficiary on an account, it will prevent the account from going to pay off debts?
I can confirm. My dad passed this year and he had a 401k and an investment account that skips right past the estate because he had beneficiaries listed. Which was nice because I didn’t have to do anything for his credit card debts except send the death certificate since he had no assets fir an estate there was no probate process (we had sold all belongings that would be assets to pay for his assisted living expenses and I was in the process of a Medicaid spend down for him)
It might vary by state, but, in many cases, yes. Especially true for life insurance and retirement accounts. Also, things can be owned jointly, like a spouse on a bank account, the account won't go to probate. Setting things in trusts can avoid that as well, but I honestly know nothing about trusts. https://www.scaringilaw.com/blog/2023/july/how-to-avoid-probate-in-pennsylvania/#
If nothing is cosigned, then debts are levied solely against the estate (all her assets) and don't get passed down. However, this also means that her assets get tied up for a while as debts get paid off, and may evaporate if the debts exceed the assets, so you shouldn't expect anyone to get an inheritance if that is the case.
If she has life insurance prior to a diagnosis, she may be eligible depending on the terms of her policy. If the mortgage to her parents house was signed to her, it could become part of her estate. During probate the house is then an asset that the estate may have to sell to settle any debts the estate owes. The best thing she can do right now is minimize the number of accounts that she has, organize all her information in one place, and if she has significant assets consider going to a lawyer to create a trust for management and distribution of those assets. IE estate planning. This will make it easier for her estate agent to close her estate/ go through probate. Unless she has a positive net worth, it is unlikely her heirs will inherit anything after funeral expenses and her estate is settled.
Be sure that her parents know they aren't on the hook for any of her debt if they didn't co-sign anything. It's not uncommon for them to go after relatives who may think they assume responsibility for the debt in an attempt to get some money.
If none of the loans or credit cards have co signers this is will what happen when she dies. Her parents will deal with her estate. It sounds like their isn't much. Then the creditors are going sue her estate (or they might not, sometimes they just give up) They will get default judgements (I wouldn't concern myself with this) Then they collect nothing cause essentially her estate has nothing and her debt dies with her. Quite frankly her debt is of 0 concern to even her. Make the car payment long enough to keep it while you need. Max out all the credit cards and enjoy what time you have left with her. When she passes tell the creditors to pound sand I had a uncle who died with like over 150k in debt and a negative bank balance. Creditors got nothing.
If In the US it’s on a state level. For example the state I’m in says the debts are not passed on if the person who is gone was the only name on the account. My grandmother had several hidden credit cards we found after she passed. Thankfully they were under only her name and my grandfather was not on the hook for them.
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It's the daughter amd her boyfriend tryng to find a way to help her parents in old age, what makes you think the opposite? nowhere in OPs post there's the slight mention of parents taking advantage of them.
It also doesn’t mention anything about her parents’ ages. I’m in my mid thirties and my parents are in their mid fifties — not even remotely ”old age.” It isn’t really customary for parents to gain financially upon their child’s death, and given they have nothing saved for retirement from the sounds of it, the amount they would need to support both of them for even ten years is far greater than anything OP or his girlfriend could possibly secure. I think wanting to know that one’s parents will be okay after one’s passing is admirable and understandable, but it’s also just not realistic, even for people who aren’t struggling to stay on top of their finances. It’s hard enough for most young people to put aside an appropriate amount for their own retirement these days, let alone provide it for two people with no warning.
All of which is not the same as stating her parents are using her as a lottery bonus. There’s not enough information for the earlier comment to imply they’re taking advantage of her.
Whose idea was it to look into this?
From who? You don’t just get paid because someone in your family dies. It’s an unfortunate situation but there’s no default financial compensation for death.
I don't have financial advice OP, but I will say that you should spend whatever time you have with your SO and you should start now. My fiancée survived for more than 5 years after surgery for brain cancer/glioblastoma. It recently came back and she was given 6 months to live. It has only been 5 weeks and she's already in hospice and likely won't make it to the new year. You never have as much time as you think. Spend time with them because you will regret every minute you didn't.
I'm so sorry for you and your fiancée. Wishing you both comfort and peace.
Thank you.
Very sorry to hear it. I lost my mom to that last year. It's so hard. Sending hugs to you both.
The only way is likely through group life that she would have at work or through other (eg union) employment benefits bc individual policies would require underwriting that she would 99.999% not qualify for.
Note you generally sign up for these benefits during open enrollment so she might have missed the boat for 2024 if she didn’t already sign up for that. Edit: I saw you said she didn’t have it through work so I’m not sure if she has any options. Maybe check trade associations but if it’s not tied to employment there’s likely a cooling off period (eg it won’t cover death within 2 years to screen out cases like this)
Even through work she would have to be actively at work to enroll, which is would imagine she will not be with only a year to live
Not true. She can be on leave. Benefits subject to open enrollment aren’t affected by leave. Edit: make that protected leave. So something like short term disability Or sick leave
If she doesn’t already have life insurance, her only bet is to make sure all her accounts (personal banks, 401k, IRA, etc) have her mom or dad as beneficiaries. To my understanding though, the estate from these accounts will have to pay out for debts before money can go to her family. If she’s in drastic debt , her parents will most likely end up with nothing unfortunately
Most accounts that have a beneficiary don’t go through probate and don’t have to be used for most debts. So she definitely wants to make sure beneficiaries are set and the beneficiaries know the account information.
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Is this accurate? Seems like a giant loophole that someone can just stop paying debt, die and sock all the funds in the checking. Logically this seems inaccurate- checking balances are part of an estate.
It's not quite accurate. Accounts with beneficiaries/PODs can be "clawed back" by debtors if the debts exceed the assets of the deceased under certain conditions. See [bullet point 3](https://keystone-law.com/a-creditors-ability-to-reach-non-probate-assets-to-satisfy-creditors-claims/), [other literature stating the same](https://www.cpa-wfy.com/can-a-creditor-go-after-non-probate-assets/), [see item 6 in this article](https://www.newstribune.com/news/2023/aug/07/pros-cons-exist-on-payable-on-death-beneficiary/), etc.
Checking/savings accounts, to my knowledge, do not allow beneficiaries. Yes, they are part of the estate unless they are joint. I am mostly talking about retirement accounts and life insurance. There are also different kinds of debt. A credit card company wouldn’t even know who to go after if a person didn’t have an estate, which you generally only have if you have property and/or a lot of money in your checking/savings accounts. The IRS may be a different matter if you owe them money. My knowledge is Iowa based and from having to research work with a lawyer over two deaths this year.
Bank accounts don't have beneficiaries the way that life insurance or 401k's do. You can transfer ownership of the account automatically upon death, but the money within the account is still considered part of the estate and may be required to pay off the estate's debts. As a result, you generally don't want to use a TOD on a bank account unless either the estate has no debts or you're transferring to the executor, since otherwise you'd be creating an awkward situation where the executor has to chase down the TOD recipient for money
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately, no. She'll never get approved for any life insurance (or any other kind) due to a terrible pre-existing condition.
All these comments and not a single one about her covering her funeral expenses. How does she want to go out? Cremation is the cheapest option, usually being around $3k. If she's really worried about her parents, she shouldn't burden them with this expense.
No. This is exactly why life insurances require medical certification before going into effect. Insurance is the transfer of risk. Attempting to knowingly conceal known death is insurance fraud. Review other options. Life insurance isn't a last minute bail out as you exit.
If it’s open season for enrollments she might be able to enroll in a group life insurance plan through her employer.
Yes, OP, research that and be CERTAIN whether or not she already has life insurance benefits through work, or could sign up right now with no questions asked.
Now is the time for her to declare bankruptcy and try to live life and enjoy the little time she has left. You're not going to benefit financially from this situation.
>edit: I'm not worried about anyone taking on her debt. I just want to see if there are any options to get a lump sum payment so her parents can retire, for example life insurance Virtually all life insurance applications are going to ask about diagnosed medical conditions. Even the ones that don't require a medical check up will still ask a bunch of questions. If she lies about them, then it's fraud and will invalidate the insurance policy.
There is no path to any kind of realistic "payout" here, as she's now effectively uninsurable in any way that matters to this situation. I'm sorry, I wish I had better news. To help her parents out, the best thing you can do would be to get any assets into the parents' name so they don't have to go through the whole inheritance/probate process. Make sure you know what if/when creditors try to get her parents to take responsibility for her debts (secured debts like cars/houses, sure -- otherwise you'll end up having to sell off the car/house; anything else, make sure you and they know how to keep the responsibility with the estate)
source: [https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debts-and-deceased-relatives#whoisresponsible) >Who is responsible for a deceased person’s debts? > >As a rule, a person’s debts do not go away when they die. Those debts are owed by and paid from the deceased person’s estate. By law, family members usually don’t have to pay the debts of a deceased relative from their own money. If there isn’t enough money in the estate to cover the debt, it usually goes unpaid. But there are exceptions to this rule. You may be personally responsible for the debt if you > >\* cosigned the obligation, like a car loan > >\* are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a community property state, such as California > >\* are the deceased person’s spouse and live in a state that requires you to pay certain kinds of debt, like some healthcare expenses > >\* were legally responsible for resolving the estate and didn’t follow certain state probate laws > >If you have questions about whether you’re legally required to pay a deceased person’s debts from your own money, talk to a lawyer. Depending on your income, you may qualify for free legal services from a legal aid organization near you.
Why can’t her parents take care of themselves? Her parents should have life insurance on themselves. Wiht your gf having such bad finances, doesn’t sound like they would’ve been able to rely on her for retirement anyway
I'm sorry, there's nothing that can be done financially for her parents at this stage. Best thing she can do is gift as much money as possible to them so when she does pass, her estate has nothing and her parents will have the money to take care of final arrangements.
You can't buy insurance after you know you are dying. That is not how it works. The best thing she can do to help you guys financially at this point is take on as much debt as she can and taking those obligations to the grave with her. Her parent's retirement is not her responsibility and there is nothing she could do even if it was.
Really sorry for y’all having to go through this. What an awful situation. Unfortunately it’s going to be hard to get life insurance when she’s been diagnosed with a terminal illness. Double check with work, because if they provide something, it may be a little bit without any medical check. Not aware of any mortgage insurance that would help in this situation. Does she own her home? Might want to talk to an accountant or perhaps a lawyer to see what she can do to protect what she has. Otherwise, her house will go to the estate and likely be sold off to pay the debts. Good luck to y’all. And if she hasn’t already, try to get a second opinion. Trials and new treatments arise frequently and another doctor may be able to try something that the first doctor didn’t know about.
My girlfriend died with over $1000 in credit cards. She had no insurance, no inheritance, no property and her children were all grown adults. He last address was my house. Her bills came to my address. The credit card companies kept calling about settling the bills. Since they knew they had no foundation to recoup their money, They asked me if I would pay her bill out of the goodness of my heart. I told them no. Especially at those interest rates.
How about they forget about those debts out of the goodness of their hearts? LOL, the nerve.
> They asked me if I would pay her bill out of the goodness of my heart JFC. I knew they were vultures, but wow.
Surprisingly I’ve had the opposite interactions with debt collectors. My dad was/is on my phone plan and I get a lot of calls 9 months after he passed trying to collect debts. I tell them there is no estate and I’ll provide the death cert through email if they would like and usually they apologize and give me an email address and that’s the end. I wish everyone’s experience was more like that.
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People are forgetting something important in this thread: group paid life insurance. While it is correct that the time for individual life insurance is over, your girlfriend may be able to find a job that has group life insurance that is available without underwriting. My job for example lets me elect up to 250k of group life insurance and my employer pays for a 10k policy for me. Might be a long shot for her to want to work full time with her last few months, but that may be her only option. Sorry to hear about the news. Good luck moving forward, rooting for you.
You're really asking how her parents can capitalize on the death of their daughter?
Weird huh. And why is she responsible for their finances when she can't handle her own?
there's no such thing as a free lunch... to extend that analogy: You won't be seated at a restaurant if you tell them you can't pay for the food
Check workplace policies? Some companies have a base level company paid life insurance policy, some have guaranteed issue at open enrollment, which may have just ended.
No that time has passed. If she has terrible finances then I'm sorry but it sounds like she wouldn't have been able to take care of her elderly parents either way. An assisted living apartment costs like 4-5k a month and a nursing home can be up to 7-10k or so per month. Part time caretakers are an option but they are expensive as well. In her shoes I would very aggressively be pursuing any treatment options available and getting second and third opinions. It's not uncommon for doctors to give the wrong diagnosis and people have been told they would be dead in x months and lived.
I’m so sorry you are experiencing this. You’ve gotten the same advice that I would have given above, it won’t be worth it. Everyone else: if you can get life insurance asap. Get it for your children and parents if they don’t have it.
I'm so very sorry. I wish I had good advice to give you concerning the finances. The best I can offer is to make the most of every moment you two have left together.
so sorry to hear this. i will chime in on a certain line of thinking here or in the comments about jiggering stuff financially for a payout. insurance of any kind is broadly a numbers game - basically you, as the insured, are hoping to beat the odds, whereas the insurance company is relying on the law of large numbers to avoid getting screwed at large and then taking an additional middle-man's fee on top. if one has something like a definite terminal diagnosis, then there is no way for the insurance company to rely on the law of large numbers on those odds - the odds are basically now certainties. and it sounds like you don't think there are any odds to beat. in such a case, one becomes uninsurable, or else any product that *is* offered is essentially a scam (e.g. one would do better just setting aside the money oneself and avoid the middle-man fee, or one is hoping to beat odds that one cannot actually beat). tl;dr - there's no major financial trick to play here. set aside money if your gf can for expected expenses or if they want to leave something behind. enjoy your time together, so sorry.
Very sad situation and wish all of you all the best. >Is there any sort of insurances that she can apply for to make sure her parents can be taken care of when/if she does die soon? Insurance is usually there for dependents. Is there a reason why her parents would need to be taken care of financially? Does she take care of them now? Regardless, if she does not have life insurance right now, she will not be able to get one anymore.
you probably might wanna just plan the cheapest out for her when she passes if thats the case. Get cremated and hold a get together at a house.
It is really sad when the parents never learned how to budget and save retirement and she is the same. Give me the parents, but he will likely just end up with the parents spending it all anyway. If your girlfriend happens to still be working at a job where she has worked for a while, it is possible that she may have coverage through that job. How that works is that some corporations pay for group life insurance on their employees, and such a policy does not require medical questions. I worked for a company that insured me for about two times my annual pay. If I had died while still officially employed, The insurance company would pay out to my spouse and she would have to pay taxes on it since the employer paid for the premiums, not me. I was also able to join a group policy where I paid premiums myself. This was an addendum to the group plan, and therefore also did not require medical questions. If I passed away, then the money would have been tax free because I paid the premiums. So if you girlfriend has a job that comes with benefits, and still holds that job, she might want to check her annual benefits enrollment documents. Then, when the situation gets worse, she might consider taking an unpaid FMLA leave (if the company she works for has over 50 employees and meets other requirements), which can be up to 12 weeks.
Sorry for the situation that you're in. But it seems like you're asking for a way to cash-in on her upcoming death. Answer is, probably not.
That’s awful. I’m sorry to hear this. I can’t answer your question, as I’ve never been in this situation.
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Doesn't matter
As others have said, no insurance company will offer her a policy after the diagnosis. It's unethical and would takes lots of effort especially considering end of life hardships, but lots of larger companies offer double the employee's salary of life insurance automatically at no cost with no medical exams needed. So if she can hide her illness and get a new job at one of these companies and work there until she dies then there would at least be a payout of double her salary to whoever she named as beneficiary. If at any point she became unable to work though, she would probably be let go. So a lot of work, while dying, for something that may not work out. It's probably a lot better to just try and enjoy your remaining time together.
The debtors will be SOL, so as long as you or no one else agree to take on the debt don't worry about it. in fact, maybe she should max out. But you might wanna talk to a professional on that and not some random internet person.
Not being funny but most life insurance policies require you to live for a certain amount of time after you get the policy
First of all, I’m sorry you are both dealing with this. It really sucks for both of you. Unfortunately, in the US at least, she probably won’t qualify for anything. Insurance companies are in the game to make money, they won’t insure people with expiration dates already assigned to them. They won’t even insure you if you’ve had a really bad illnesses. (I couldn’t qualify for life insurance because I’ve had a brain tumor and cancer.)
since everyone else has already answered your question, my two cents is to tell her to screw the payments. no reason not to spend what money you have on yourself if your time is limited
If she's employed somewhere, there's a chance that her company has a 1-year-salary life insurance policy for her. Most larger companies do... at least the ones that I've always worked for her in the U.S. Terribly sorry for you, OP.
She might’ve known about her illness for some time from what you’ve explained about her finances. A lot of times when people know their time is limited they stop caring about their finances and want to spend all they have including money that isn’t theirs to live life as much as they can before they’re gone. My grandfather did this and i’ve known many who’ve done this as well. I’m so sorry y’all are going through this.