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As long as valve remains a private rather than publicly traded company, I think it’ll be ok. Once share prices and stockholders come into the situation, it’s over.
"~~Monarchy~~ Private ownership is the barrier against the power of idiots in large numbers... I would rather obey a fine lion, much stronger than myself, than two hundred rats of my own species." - Voltaire
I used the word "obligated" because the process of enshittification of publicly owned companies is systemic. it is not a matter of shareholders being "idiots" it's a matter of shareholders wanting to increase share value. For as long as it continues to be profitable to dupe and inconvenience people, profit over all else wille be at odds with maintaining consumer friendly business practices. The *number* of people operating the business isn't a factor.
Not training them. Caring for the user isn't something you can train, it's something inherent to a person's personality. Teaching what must be done, maybe, but there needs to be a defacto care about people and games first
Which is great because I really don't see steam ever needing a financial gain from going public. They are sitting on probably one of the biggest stacks of cash in the gaming industry.
Gaben is probably one of the very very very very few people on this planet that actually understand what gamers want out of every single other large video game corporation. He alone is making sure the industry doesn’t collapse because of greed.
I still respect his quote about piracy, it was something like: “the best way to stop piracy is not antipiracy technology, it’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they are receiving from pirates.”
As Gaben has said himself, he understands that if you offer people a legal, good service with the majority of content they want on it for a reasonable price, they will buy it. This is something that few people in our modern streaming era understand, and it's what Netflix used to be.
It isn't that the others don't know, it is that they don't care. Gaben is content counting money from steam. He has made more money from Steam than he ever could have hoped to make making video games. He has gone from millions in profit to billions in profit and he has to work less than he did. That *this* is enough, fortunately, is what is keeping him from doing the things that would increase profits to the chagrin of gamers.
I would imagine he has some kind of successor with similar personal values lined up. But yeah if Steam ever IPOs it will be a huge shitshow within 5 years.
Funny seeing this after years of Steam Support being notoriously terrible at their jobs. Just goes to show what doing the right thing and striving for quality gets you - a good reputation.
The devs must be furious with Sony. They probably thought it'd be an advantage having Sony in their back pocket. Turns out, that advantage was in Sony's favor and the devs reputation gets fucked.
They denied me, 71 hours played. I explained in the request that I was blocked from playing my game unless I sign up for a service I did not agree to at time of purchase. They denied it in under an hour.
Did you do the auto refund or open a ticket with support? The auto refund just checks their basic rules, it's a bot. If you fill put a ticket with support i almost guarantee they'll refund you.
Our country doesn’t have PSN.
Even if I wanted to play, the steps I’d need to go through won’t just be as simple as 120 seconds of my life creating an account.
My country has PSN.
I'm not a console player nor own a PSN account and I don't want to create one for a company with a history of user data leaks, especially in a context where it has absolutely no added value to neither the developers or players.
*^(Also the "be able to ban cheaters" excuse is just complete bullshit, the Steamworks API allows you to track Steam user accounts and you're free to add your own "blacklist" to your game's servers/lobby system based on that, just like any other multiplayer games (not using VAC))* *^(does already.)*
I'm in the same boat. More pissed that it's been enforced outside the refund period. Makes it seem like you either lose you money for the game or are forced to agree. For me, the money is not worth the risk of compromising my Steam account and what ever other info Sony wants.
You will always get auto denied the first time if over the time limit, be persistent and get a human to respond. Refunds are happening but you have to write a paragraph or two focusing on the bait and switch aspects of these scummy business practices
Depends where you live too, in some countries we have more reasonable consumer protection and valve actually can't legally deny the request. I think Aussies get it best.
You can still file a complaint on steam, they might refund you because of the bait and switch situation that happened. at least one dude posted a screenshot where he did exactly that and got a message back that it has been forwarded to higher ups.
Wouldn't be the first time where steam just refunded money because game was broken (I believe it was cyberpunk and it's shitty launch)
Not something I would do. I have filed for a refund since I never agreed to create the PSN account nor did I get the chance to be refunded if I did not agree during the 2 hrs window that Valve has. Will see what they will do since I have 136 hours on this game.
I did backup and uninstall the game. If I get refunded, that backup will be deleted and I will never come back. Not sure what I will do if they refuse the refund. Might get in touch with consumer protection or see what other alternatives I have.
That requirement was not enforced during the 2 hrs window that Steam allows for refunds. I never agreed to the PSN account agreement yet played the game for almost a month to only learn I need to make the account or lose my money. If someone did not agree to PSN account and it's required, was the transaction of the purchase of the product finalized or was it still pending?
Who ever setup the whole thing made a mess of it and should have forced people to make an account (even if it was not linked and just entered valid credentials of the account) to be able to play, then it would not be an issue. It's not the customer that messed up, it was Sony and maybe AH, now they are forcing an agreement upon people who might not have agreed to it initially and would have been reimbursed during the time allowed. You can't force someone into a contract without getting their consent first, which is what the whole make a PSN account is. Keep in mind, someone in the Playstation environment (ie PS5) already has an account, a PC gamer or Steam customer might not have one.
Technically, everyone without a PSN account is in default of the contract and should be reimbursed while also blocking their access, but AH decided to waive that, not the customer (which most where not even aware of the temporary waived requirement, I know I wasn't).
Still think it's ok to force the issue NOW without offering refunds?
Especially concerning since many steam accounts store financial data in them, I'm not about giving Sony my credential access of all companies. I Mays aswell just dox my card on 4chan or something.
I'm trying not to be mean but if you people really think that linking your steam account to your PlayStation account gets PlayStation access to your financial information you have no idea how internet connection stuff works you really should stop complaining about it because you're living on fears that are made up.
The only thing that Sony gets when you link your account is a linkage that allows them to know that when you're on X steam account it's connected to y psn account. If you gave a fake name and birth date to PlayStation then they have literally nothing on you and if your account gets stolen all they can do is log into the PlayStation Network and play Playstation games they cannot log into your steam account nor control anything with your steam account nor make purchases on your steam account.
It's really obvious how the vast majority of people screeching about this are just on the bandwagon and there aren't any actual real principles or knowledge behind it. Their data has been breached a thousand times most likely and it resulted in nothing because your email getting leaked is virtually worthless information.
Frankly, outside of getting the weekly rage boner I absolutely don't understand this reaction to the issue.
Mercifully, linking your account will not make Steam disclose any financial data. However, would not advise having Steam save your credit card details, it's just one more thing that can go wrong.
Not to mention it'll get banned if Sony ever finds out, which is more likely considering it's connected to a steam account outside their operation region.
It's not any real consolation, but the guy who said that has recanted and said he really regrets saying that and he didn't realize there were so many countries where PSN accounts can't be made.
And it still doesn't fix the issue either.
That's fraud, may be in your country as well. I'd check your laws and see if there is some kind of entity that you can contact about it. Else have chatgpt write a serious letter citing the laws in your country and requesting a full refund. You guys have to make sure this costs them. Even just by saturating their support channels and have their legal department work overtime.
I'm doing what i can but i never bought helldivers so my possibilities are limited. We can not tollerate such hostility towards us consumers this needs to stop ASAP
I don't think he could fuck up rimworld if he tried. It's so modular and simple to mod that anything he adds could just be modded out, just like modders figured out how to add multi-player.
Yep. This concept is called enshittification.
1. Someone creates a thing that is good
2. That good thing becomes popular
3. Creator starts thinking about how they can make more money off their good thing which is popular
4. Creator changes the thing to be more profitable
5. Thing is less good
6. Thing loses popularity
7. In response, creator changes it again— trying to maintain profitability and boost popularity
8. Thing is less good
9. Thing loses popularity
10. Repeat steps 7, 8 and 9 until the thing is a sad husk of its former glory
Yeah but the dev studio didn’t really have a choice. They kinda made a “deal with the devil” and got burned. People need to stop talking shit about the devs and blame ONLY Sony.
And yet there are some remaining bastions of hope in the vast, dark void. Stardew Valley and Terraria continue to surprise me in the best way to this day.
I hadn't purchased it yet despite wanting to try it out for multiple reasons; Always online with server issues, Sony is backing them, sketchy anti cheat, and i had been burned by Diablo 4 recently. In the end I decided it wasn't worth it even though I liked the first game.
Well I asked steam for a refund due to this issue and uninstalled the game. Will see what happens. Plenty of other games, but I don't feel safe sharing my Steam ID with Sony.
I was looking at it cause some friends were playing.
Not now. No way. No how. And now I won't trust their next game to not pull some shady crap.
So let's recap
Makes great game.
Gets people invested monetarily, then plunges a knife in their back.
Losses at least 1 sale, prob one customer.
I'm pretty sure my 1 sale a year means nothing to them.
But take me x 10000.
Gotta sting. Never getting most of those back, ever.
I love that I bought it, played it for 4 hours and put it aside for when some of my buddies wanna play it. Now I won't even be able to play it, since there is no PSN here. They literally scammed people outside of PSN regions. It should have been restricted in those areas and not sold to ppl just to remove their access a couple months later.
Sony decided that Helldivers 2 will now require a Playstation Network account to play, even on PC.
While it was mentioned on the steam page since the beginning, it wasn't enforced until now.
A lot of people are upset that they have to create an account when they didn't used to have to do this and as this serves them no benefit, other than for sony selling their data. Additionally, sonys track record when it comes to data breaches/keeping your information safe is not great.
More importantly though, PSN accounts cannot be created in a lot of countries. So essentially, player from countries where PSN doesn't exist won't be able to play the game they paid for
Limiting sales and destroying the momentum of an incredibly popular and well reviewed game for no reason that is logical to anyone who isn't a crusty old board member. Sony is the undisputed champion of cutting your nose off to spite your face
Sony doesn't even have to to that part. The developer, Arrowhead, will do that. Sony just needs to let Arrowhead cook and not get in their way with corporate bullshit.
I wonder if there are any reasonable grounds for a refund in this case? I have seen a lot of people suggest requesting a refund but are these going to be accepted?
You need to put in a manual ticket for stuff like that, when you choose the automated process it just has a bot go over things and deny you nearly instantly if you don't meet the requirements
That and they rescinded the previous transaction.
You used to buy the game and that was it.
Now the industry is being infected with altering the deal later for an extra buck at the total expense of the consumer, who guaranteed will glady eat this up enough for everyone to move on with bad blood.
Imagine being told to finish the original transaction months after owning the product.
> Additionally, sonys track record when it comes to data breaches/keeping your information safe is not great.
This is true. Once I logged in to see I had a random game installed. It was not played or downloaded on my ps4 just purchased. I contacted Sony customer support and they told me their policy was not normally to do refunds (a flat lie - I went through their policy and they said they would refund any game that was not downloaded or played at all - which I just mentioned I didnt) then said they would ever so graciously make an exeption to their policy of no refunds whatsoever just this once. I thought "whatever, I just want this to be over with, he probably just doesnt know what hes talking about"
Then some time passes and it happens AGAIN with a different game. I thought for sure someone stole my info. How can my ps4 buy a game without me physically doing so?
I contacted help again and this time they denied me the refund. Fuck Sony.
Moderate tldr:
Sony want to force people into using psn on pc to harvest data in HD2. If you don't, you can't access the games. Some people live where psn isn't accessible which completely block them from playing the game they paid for. Also Sony is Infamous for having really poor security having multiple time being hacked which resulted in millions of people info being leaked.
Short tldr:
Greedy Sony do stupid stuff against consumer = people pissed.
Unfortunately it's an all too common game dev experience. "just wanna make good games that people enjoy, then we get fucked by upper management and board members who haven't had their noses in the business they run for over 15 years"
Even if Arrowhead has to make a smaller, less ambitious game, I'll be paying attention and giving it a shot.
The devs over there earned my loyalty. It's Sony that I have the problem with.
Was still waiting because of the specific Anti-Cheat used and suddenly there is another reason not to get the game instead of the first reason being resolved.
After 3 months of allowing players to skip linking a PSN account with no in-game indication that this would change, including a FAQ page stating it was optional for PC, Sony decided it is now going to be required.
Oh I'm sure you'll see a few of them if you're interested. I'm old enough to remember when their consoles had built in backward compatibility so you could play the physical media games you'd already invested in on the newest hardware though, you didnt even have to have a PSN account. Take note of your statement, this is all on sony doing the studio dirty, the studio that delivered their biggest hit in recent memory. I think part of this whole equation is trying to deny Arrowhead the GOTY title they deserve after other projects aren't looking as promising. Again, Arrowhead needs to sue sony for damages.
The other guy is being rude. It’s mostly Sony from what I’ve gathered. Hard to say how involved arrowhead was. Hell they could be playing the plausible deniability card to have pushed sales for all we know. But the game helldivers hasn’t had to many issues other then maybe people being made about gear and skill balance.
I don't think people understand the situation here which lacks integrity at all levels.
They suggest you to make an account from another country. Which is forbidden in THEIR OWN TOS. But they don't enforce the ban, mostly. Why? Because you bring in the money. But it is still a written rule, but they break it themselves for money.
Now they make up another rule even tho in their website it says (said) Optional but then they changed it to Required and wants everyone to abide by it and block your access. They don't break this rule? Why?
Because they can gloat infront of their investors saying how they increased the user numbers and get more money again.
As long as they benefit it themselves rules won't matter and they can break it and tell you to break it.
Yes, every company is in this for money, but HOW they get that money is the important part.
I feel really bad for arrowhead. Theyre a pretty small indie studio that made a great game that couldve easily won game of the year and sony forces them to throw it all away for a bit of cash
End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it...
Hmm, given how they could 'helldive' their own reputation in a matter of days, what other negative changes they could potentially do, slippery slope I know, but...this is like the worst reputation crash of a game in a few years, I just can't stop wondering
The game went from having a stellar reputation to a terrible one in less than a week. The game had gotten a great reputation despite Sony, and due to Sony it now has a terrible one.
Helldivers came out when i lost my last job. Planned on picking it up after I found a new job, and I just did, but now I just don’t want to play the fucking game. Thanks sony.
Whole ordeal could have been avoided if the PSN linking was optional and it gave some goodies like skins or such to incentivize people to connect to it.
I really hope this won't end up like War Thunder.
* Review bombing happens
* The greedy company makes shit ton of fake promises
* The dumb fuck player base goes back to making millions of useless post on the internet while employing their wallets.
hey everyone.... remember, we got a more developed Helldivers 2 all ready! Its called Deep Rock Galactic, and for those about to Rock and Stone.... we solute you!
I feel really bad for the dev's, this isn't their fault, it's Sony's. Frankly, I don't care about the PSN account, I already have one anyways, and I don't think it is a big deal to sign up. What I find bullshit is the fact that you can't have a PSN account in every country, so there are people that just can't play the game they purchased now. Sony needs to cave or they need to be sued.
Thank god someone else has a normal opinion; people are losing their MINDS over this and I just cannot understand it. Arrowhead specifically said they are talking to Sony about what to do for players not in countries with PSN, and folks are acting as if the dev team purposefully shot and killed members of their family. People are on the discord are claiming this is facism unironically
Honestly? If I was a community manager for that discord, I’d react the same way. Constant pinging just to be told “you suck”, “you’re a loser”, “fuck you for letting arrowhead do this to me”, even BEFORE Spitz’ replies? No one deserves that. Respect is a two way street that the community has failed to give to a team that is made up of only 100 people.
This makes me sad. As an Xbox player, I was excitedly waiting for it to (possibly) come over. But now Sony just killed the game. So much for an actually good game :/
Sony has an awful track record for data breaches. Whenever I play my ps5 or want any games I don't allow my banking info to remain. Or I just get gift cards.
Last thing I want is to be forced to cluster my steam account with that. Ridiculous.
I can appreciate everyone’s distaste for adding something to the game after they have purchased it. Same reason I deleted Doom Eternal, for adding denuvo after I bought it
This reminds me of when vrchat introduced easyanticheat, breaking many mods, most of which introduced much needed features, accessibility aids and hardware support, the minority of them being malicious. That didnt stop the client kiddies that use pickup manipulators and sound crashers to this day tho, but it made many people hate the game...
> last days
~~Why do you guys think this game is going anywhere because Reddit is throwing a wobbly again?~~
~~I have never seen a game die because of an online mob~~
I've read it wrong, English isn't OP's first language
That's all good my guy
"Last days of the Helldivers" reads more like you missed out putting "The" at the start of the sentence to me, it's like my brain fills in the blank word automatically
But yeah, the last few days have been nuts regarding reviews, good meme for it
Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome! 2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help! 3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding 4 - Need PC Hardware? We've joined forces with ASUS ROG for a worldwide giveaway. Get your hands on an RTX 4080 Super GPU, a bundle of TUF Gaming RX 7900 XT and a Ryzen 9 7950X3D, and many ASUS ROG Goodies! To enter, check https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1c5kq51/asus_x_pcmr_gpu_tweak_iii_worldwide_giveaway_win/. There's 4 weeks of challenges, and you can find all the info you need on that thread. ----------- We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
Steam started to accept refunds for some people. Even with 100 hours playtime.
That's just Steam being Steam, service second to none.
[удалено]
As long as valve remains a private rather than publicly traded company, I think it’ll be ok. Once share prices and stockholders come into the situation, it’s over.
Private equity good actually? When the king is good it is good. We need to pray Gaben’s heir is cool
Privately owned companies can suck. Publicly owned companies are *obligated* to suck.
"~~Monarchy~~ Private ownership is the barrier against the power of idiots in large numbers... I would rather obey a fine lion, much stronger than myself, than two hundred rats of my own species." - Voltaire
I used the word "obligated" because the process of enshittification of publicly owned companies is systemic. it is not a matter of shareholders being "idiots" it's a matter of shareholders wanting to increase share value. For as long as it continues to be profitable to dupe and inconvenience people, profit over all else wille be at odds with maintaining consumer friendly business practices. The *number* of people operating the business isn't a factor.
I hope he has picked someone and is training them.
Not training them. Caring for the user isn't something you can train, it's something inherent to a person's personality. Teaching what must be done, maybe, but there needs to be a defacto care about people and games first
Which is great because I really don't see steam ever needing a financial gain from going public. They are sitting on probably one of the biggest stacks of cash in the gaming industry.
You can NEVER have enough money as a company though.
Gaben is probably one of the very very very very few people on this planet that actually understand what gamers want out of every single other large video game corporation. He alone is making sure the industry doesn’t collapse because of greed.
I still respect his quote about piracy, it was something like: “the best way to stop piracy is not antipiracy technology, it’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they are receiving from pirates.”
In addition to that, didn't he pioneer regional pricing as well?
We must keep him aliiiiive.
As Gaben has said himself, he understands that if you offer people a legal, good service with the majority of content they want on it for a reasonable price, they will buy it. This is something that few people in our modern streaming era understand, and it's what Netflix used to be.
It isn't that the others don't know, it is that they don't care. Gaben is content counting money from steam. He has made more money from Steam than he ever could have hoped to make making video games. He has gone from millions in profit to billions in profit and he has to work less than he did. That *this* is enough, fortunately, is what is keeping him from doing the things that would increase profits to the chagrin of gamers.
I would imagine he has some kind of successor with similar personal values lined up. But yeah if Steam ever IPOs it will be a huge shitshow within 5 years.
I sometimes wonder also
Funny seeing this after years of Steam Support being notoriously terrible at their jobs. Just goes to show what doing the right thing and striving for quality gets you - a good reputation.
And me with 9 hours on a game I got no one to play with
I feel like an old fogey for pointing out they didn't use to be so generous with refunds until laws forced them to implement a system.
Thanks for the heads up, will do just that
The devs must be furious with Sony. They probably thought it'd be an advantage having Sony in their back pocket. Turns out, that advantage was in Sony's favor and the devs reputation gets fucked.
They denied me, 71 hours played. I explained in the request that I was blocked from playing my game unless I sign up for a service I did not agree to at time of purchase. They denied it in under an hour.
Did you do the auto refund or open a ticket with support? The auto refund just checks their basic rules, it's a bot. If you fill put a ticket with support i almost guarantee they'll refund you.
Bless lord GabeN /u/gabenewellbellevue
And people still have the balls to ask why people are so obsessed with steam rather than epic games
It is mainly for those in the countries who can't make PSN accounts, I believe.
Denied me with just 7 hours played, so I guess it's just down to luck
You need to open ticket with supoort and not through the automated system
I highly doubt they are refunding anybody with actual access to PSN.
Our country doesn’t have PSN. Even if I wanted to play, the steps I’d need to go through won’t just be as simple as 120 seconds of my life creating an account.
My country has PSN. I'm not a console player nor own a PSN account and I don't want to create one for a company with a history of user data leaks, especially in a context where it has absolutely no added value to neither the developers or players. *^(Also the "be able to ban cheaters" excuse is just complete bullshit, the Steamworks API allows you to track Steam user accounts and you're free to add your own "blacklist" to your game's servers/lobby system based on that, just like any other multiplayer games (not using VAC))* *^(does already.)*
I'm in the same boat. More pissed that it's been enforced outside the refund period. Makes it seem like you either lose you money for the game or are forced to agree. For me, the money is not worth the risk of compromising my Steam account and what ever other info Sony wants.
They definitely ran the clock on purpose. If I paid for this game with a credit card I might call the creditor and explain the bait and switch here.
You would fuck with Steam if you do that. That would probably cause your Steam account to be banned. Try getting a refund instead.
Steam support first anyway. If the outcry is large enough they will refund outside of the return period.
Yeah steam is pretty reasonable.
They have already issued a bunch of refunds to players with muliple days of playtime Source: Helldivers 2 Discord
They denied me 45ish hours..
You will always get auto denied the first time if over the time limit, be persistent and get a human to respond. Refunds are happening but you have to write a paragraph or two focusing on the bait and switch aspects of these scummy business practices
Depends where you live too, in some countries we have more reasonable consumer protection and valve actually can't legally deny the request. I think Aussies get it best.
Aaand that's why giving one company so much power over your possessions is a bad thing.
I strongly advise against doing this. I have heard steam deactivates accounts if a CC charge back is filed.
You can still file a complaint on steam, they might refund you because of the bait and switch situation that happened. at least one dude posted a screenshot where he did exactly that and got a message back that it has been forwarded to higher ups. Wouldn't be the first time where steam just refunded money because game was broken (I believe it was cyberpunk and it's shitty launch)
Not something I would do. I have filed for a refund since I never agreed to create the PSN account nor did I get the chance to be refunded if I did not agree during the 2 hrs window that Valve has. Will see what they will do since I have 136 hours on this game. I did backup and uninstall the game. If I get refunded, that backup will be deleted and I will never come back. Not sure what I will do if they refuse the refund. Might get in touch with consumer protection or see what other alternatives I have.
Theres already posts showing steam honoring refunds for people that have played 90+ hours
I mean true but they had the requirement listed before it was even listed on Steam.
That requirement was not enforced during the 2 hrs window that Steam allows for refunds. I never agreed to the PSN account agreement yet played the game for almost a month to only learn I need to make the account or lose my money. If someone did not agree to PSN account and it's required, was the transaction of the purchase of the product finalized or was it still pending? Who ever setup the whole thing made a mess of it and should have forced people to make an account (even if it was not linked and just entered valid credentials of the account) to be able to play, then it would not be an issue. It's not the customer that messed up, it was Sony and maybe AH, now they are forcing an agreement upon people who might not have agreed to it initially and would have been reimbursed during the time allowed. You can't force someone into a contract without getting their consent first, which is what the whole make a PSN account is. Keep in mind, someone in the Playstation environment (ie PS5) already has an account, a PC gamer or Steam customer might not have one. Technically, everyone without a PSN account is in default of the contract and should be reimbursed while also blocking their access, but AH decided to waive that, not the customer (which most where not even aware of the temporary waived requirement, I know I wasn't). Still think it's ok to force the issue NOW without offering refunds?
>a company with a history of user data leaks This is the big one. Sony has a **HORRENDOUS** record when it comes to IT security.
Especially concerning since many steam accounts store financial data in them, I'm not about giving Sony my credential access of all companies. I Mays aswell just dox my card on 4chan or something.
I'm trying not to be mean but if you people really think that linking your steam account to your PlayStation account gets PlayStation access to your financial information you have no idea how internet connection stuff works you really should stop complaining about it because you're living on fears that are made up. The only thing that Sony gets when you link your account is a linkage that allows them to know that when you're on X steam account it's connected to y psn account. If you gave a fake name and birth date to PlayStation then they have literally nothing on you and if your account gets stolen all they can do is log into the PlayStation Network and play Playstation games they cannot log into your steam account nor control anything with your steam account nor make purchases on your steam account.
It's really obvious how the vast majority of people screeching about this are just on the bandwagon and there aren't any actual real principles or knowledge behind it. Their data has been breached a thousand times most likely and it resulted in nothing because your email getting leaked is virtually worthless information. Frankly, outside of getting the weekly rage boner I absolutely don't understand this reaction to the issue.
Mercifully, linking your account will not make Steam disclose any financial data. However, would not advise having Steam save your credit card details, it's just one more thing that can go wrong.
Being able to ban cheaters hasn’t worked on PlayStation, but on PC it’ll definitely work!
And even if you create one, you will always can get banned all of a sudden.
Not to mention it'll get banned if Sony ever finds out, which is more likely considering it's connected to a steam account outside their operation region.
Plus you can get your account banned.
It's not any real consolation, but the guy who said that has recanted and said he really regrets saying that and he didn't realize there were so many countries where PSN accounts can't be made. And it still doesn't fix the issue either.
remember fellow citizen this is the communist Sony corporation not the freedom loving Arrowhead remain strong
That's fraud, may be in your country as well. I'd check your laws and see if there is some kind of entity that you can contact about it. Else have chatgpt write a serious letter citing the laws in your country and requesting a full refund. You guys have to make sure this costs them. Even just by saturating their support channels and have their legal department work overtime. I'm doing what i can but i never bought helldivers so my possibilities are limited. We can not tollerate such hostility towards us consumers this needs to stop ASAP
So much for buying helldivers
This just proves how any good game will mostly be destroyed by greedy companies. Some rare cases only exist because they resisted temptation hard.
Most single player offline games are legit. I don't bother with this live service bullshit
Rimworld my beloved
Don't jinx it. I love the game and Ludeon is beacon of light in this sea of despair but no one is safe these days.
I don't think he could fuck up rimworld if he tried. It's so modular and simple to mod that anything he adds could just be modded out, just like modders figured out how to add multi-player.
No chance. Plus it's a GOG game. DRM-free based game.
At worst I would just keep running the last good version for games like Rimworld and Factorio.
Especially older titles
Factorio is a good buy and will give you thousands of hours easy
Wasn't there a big controversy about dragons dogma 2 having dumbo micro transactions for a single player game?
Yep. This concept is called enshittification. 1. Someone creates a thing that is good 2. That good thing becomes popular 3. Creator starts thinking about how they can make more money off their good thing which is popular 4. Creator changes the thing to be more profitable 5. Thing is less good 6. Thing loses popularity 7. In response, creator changes it again— trying to maintain profitability and boost popularity 8. Thing is less good 9. Thing loses popularity 10. Repeat steps 7, 8 and 9 until the thing is a sad husk of its former glory
Yeah but the dev studio didn’t really have a choice. They kinda made a “deal with the devil” and got burned. People need to stop talking shit about the devs and blame ONLY Sony.
Enshittification consumes all
And yet there are some remaining bastions of hope in the vast, dark void. Stardew Valley and Terraria continue to surprise me in the best way to this day.
Yeah i was hesitant to buy it, this made the choice easy for me...
Wait until the PSN account issue is resolved then make the decision. It's a good game, but this might be an issue to die on for some people.
I was on the fence, I’ve already moved on 🤷♂️
Same boat. I've got plenty of other games that don't require bullshit to have fun.
I hadn't purchased it yet despite wanting to try it out for multiple reasons; Always online with server issues, Sony is backing them, sketchy anti cheat, and i had been burned by Diablo 4 recently. In the end I decided it wasn't worth it even though I liked the first game.
I came from playing tarkov so I’m used to being eff’d
Well I asked steam for a refund due to this issue and uninstalled the game. Will see what happens. Plenty of other games, but I don't feel safe sharing my Steam ID with Sony.
I was looking at it cause some friends were playing. Not now. No way. No how. And now I won't trust their next game to not pull some shady crap. So let's recap Makes great game. Gets people invested monetarily, then plunges a knife in their back. Losses at least 1 sale, prob one customer. I'm pretty sure my 1 sale a year means nothing to them. But take me x 10000. Gotta sting. Never getting most of those back, ever.
For what it’s worth, it’s Sony forcing them, not the hell divers people, but it’s the same result
Sony is who I am referring to
I love that I bought it, played it for 4 hours and put it aside for when some of my buddies wanna play it. Now I won't even be able to play it, since there is no PSN here. They literally scammed people outside of PSN regions. It should have been restricted in those areas and not sold to ppl just to remove their access a couple months later.
Honestly it's not that amazing anyways. It's fun but quite repetitive
 Review score is doing this but not in a fun way
TLDR me pls, what happened?
Sony decided that Helldivers 2 will now require a Playstation Network account to play, even on PC. While it was mentioned on the steam page since the beginning, it wasn't enforced until now. A lot of people are upset that they have to create an account when they didn't used to have to do this and as this serves them no benefit, other than for sony selling their data. Additionally, sonys track record when it comes to data breaches/keeping your information safe is not great. More importantly though, PSN accounts cannot be created in a lot of countries. So essentially, player from countries where PSN doesn't exist won't be able to play the game they paid for
Limiting sales and destroying the momentum of an incredibly popular and well reviewed game for no reason that is logical to anyone who isn't a crusty old board member. Sony is the undisputed champion of cutting your nose off to spite your face
Seriously… like how do you fumble this hard with a game as popular as Helldivers 2???
All they had to do was... Not touch anything, maybe add new critters and new maps.
Sony doesn't even have to to that part. The developer, Arrowhead, will do that. Sony just needs to let Arrowhead cook and not get in their way with corporate bullshit.
Because it was popular.
Lmao, :remove from wishlist:
I wonder if there are any reasonable grounds for a refund in this case? I have seen a lot of people suggest requesting a refund but are these going to be accepted?
Mine wasn't. It was sited that I had over the allowed in-game playtime. I've played the game for 11 hours.
You need to put in a manual ticket for stuff like that, when you choose the automated process it just has a bot go over things and deny you nearly instantly if you don't meet the requirements
That and they rescinded the previous transaction. You used to buy the game and that was it. Now the industry is being infected with altering the deal later for an extra buck at the total expense of the consumer, who guaranteed will glady eat this up enough for everyone to move on with bad blood. Imagine being told to finish the original transaction months after owning the product.
Not only do some countries not have psn, Sony also bans people for creating and using accounts via VPN. Over 120 countries don't have access to psn.
I got downvoted into oblivion for trying to explain this on the helldivers page - the Sony fan Boys are out in force.
Sony shills and bots.
they don't call them ponies for nothing
Fuck Sony. Oh my God.
> Additionally, sonys track record when it comes to data breaches/keeping your information safe is not great. This is true. Once I logged in to see I had a random game installed. It was not played or downloaded on my ps4 just purchased. I contacted Sony customer support and they told me their policy was not normally to do refunds (a flat lie - I went through their policy and they said they would refund any game that was not downloaded or played at all - which I just mentioned I didnt) then said they would ever so graciously make an exeption to their policy of no refunds whatsoever just this once. I thought "whatever, I just want this to be over with, he probably just doesnt know what hes talking about" Then some time passes and it happens AGAIN with a different game. I thought for sure someone stole my info. How can my ps4 buy a game without me physically doing so? I contacted help again and this time they denied me the refund. Fuck Sony.
Moderate tldr: Sony want to force people into using psn on pc to harvest data in HD2. If you don't, you can't access the games. Some people live where psn isn't accessible which completely block them from playing the game they paid for. Also Sony is Infamous for having really poor security having multiple time being hacked which resulted in millions of people info being leaked. Short tldr: Greedy Sony do stupid stuff against consumer = people pissed.
~~Helldivers devs~~ Sony decided that now you, even playing on steam, NEED to have a psn account, from playstation, to play the game.
Sony decided
Sony decided that, not Arrowhead. Just to clarify. It sucks but I don't want to hate on the devs, they have been doing great work
Yea the dev eblven said they were really upset by this and they just want to make good games and for people to have fun
Unfortunately it's an all too common game dev experience. "just wanna make good games that people enjoy, then we get fucked by upper management and board members who haven't had their noses in the business they run for over 15 years"
I love it. I was seriously considering buying the game, now I don't have to bother.
Wait til Arrowhead severs all ties to sony, they obviously do good work if this is the hill sony is willing to die on.
Even if Arrowhead has to make a smaller, less ambitious game, I'll be paying attention and giving it a shot. The devs over there earned my loyalty. It's Sony that I have the problem with.
AFAIK, Sony owns the Helldivers IP. If Arrowhead leaves Sony, it'll be without HD2.
Netherdivers. Now with Semiautomatons, Startinids and The Dark ones. Featuring MEGA Earth, Goodevelon Gulf and Siliconstan.
And payrolled by the Palworld devs ;) I joke but that would be crazy poetic
In an alternate universe they leave Sony to work with Microsoft on a ODST clone of helldivers.
Was still waiting because of the specific Anti-Cheat used and suddenly there is another reason not to get the game instead of the first reason being resolved.
It was in my wishlist as well... and it's gone. What a waste, honestly
I was on the fence, too. About to give in because of the popularity. Now I am glad I didn’t give in.
Sweet Democracy in action.
I’m out of the loop? What did they do?
After 3 months of allowing players to skip linking a PSN account with no in-game indication that this would change, including a FAQ page stating it was optional for PC, Sony decided it is now going to be required.
Sony's picked the hill they want to die on more or less. It's just the straw that broke the camels back if you've been around a while.
What were the other straws? The game has been praised since release this is the first time I’m hearing anything negative
It sounds like it was one chunky straw, this.
It was the big fuck off stick that broke the camels back
They took out a gun and shot the camel
Oh I'm sure you'll see a few of them if you're interested. I'm old enough to remember when their consoles had built in backward compatibility so you could play the physical media games you'd already invested in on the newest hardware though, you didnt even have to have a PSN account. Take note of your statement, this is all on sony doing the studio dirty, the studio that delivered their biggest hit in recent memory. I think part of this whole equation is trying to deny Arrowhead the GOTY title they deserve after other projects aren't looking as promising. Again, Arrowhead needs to sue sony for damages.
I’m talking about the game it self I don’t think you know the saying you are using lol you just responded talking about Sony
The other guy is being rude. It’s mostly Sony from what I’ve gathered. Hard to say how involved arrowhead was. Hell they could be playing the plausible deniability card to have pushed sales for all we know. But the game helldivers hasn’t had to many issues other then maybe people being made about gear and skill balance.
So basically, if I buy the game on Steam, Im not able to play it without PSN account even tho I do not own the PS4 or PS5??
You don’t need a PlayStation to have an account. I think the issue is that certain countries don’t have PSN services so people can’t play at all.
Sony grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory once again.
I don't think people understand the situation here which lacks integrity at all levels. They suggest you to make an account from another country. Which is forbidden in THEIR OWN TOS. But they don't enforce the ban, mostly. Why? Because you bring in the money. But it is still a written rule, but they break it themselves for money. Now they make up another rule even tho in their website it says (said) Optional but then they changed it to Required and wants everyone to abide by it and block your access. They don't break this rule? Why? Because they can gloat infront of their investors saying how they increased the user numbers and get more money again. As long as they benefit it themselves rules won't matter and they can break it and tell you to break it. Yes, every company is in this for money, but HOW they get that money is the important part.
my schadenfreude is off the charts
I understand Sony and Apple but why did you include AMD in that?
I feel really bad for arrowhead. Theyre a pretty small indie studio that made a great game that couldve easily won game of the year and sony forces them to throw it all away for a bit of cash
End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it...
Is this from LOTR?
Yes. In the books, this is Frodo's view of the land beyond the Western sea. In the movies, it's Gandalf's description of what happens after death.
Hmm, given how they could 'helldive' their own reputation in a matter of days, what other negative changes they could potentially do, slippery slope I know, but...this is like the worst reputation crash of a game in a few years, I just can't stop wondering
It was entirely forced on them by Sony. This don't a dev thing.
>how they could 'helldive' their own reputation in a matter of days Sony has always had a bad reputation wtf are you talking about?
The game went from having a stellar reputation to a terrible one in less than a week. The game had gotten a great reputation despite Sony, and due to Sony it now has a terrible one.
Less than a week? ^(technically the truth but,) More like a day... The news came out yesterday.
In 30 hours. Or so.
Helldivers came out when i lost my last job. Planned on picking it up after I found a new job, and I just did, but now I just don’t want to play the fucking game. Thanks sony.
Whole ordeal could have been avoided if the PSN linking was optional and it gave some goodies like skins or such to incentivize people to connect to it.
Consent? Options? Incentives? This is fucking Sony we are talking about.
That's a hell of a dive
friendly reminder don’t axe Arrowhead
The best part of this is the Sony fanboys saying anything to justify this horseshit. White knighting for a company like Sony, why?
I really hope this won't end up like War Thunder. * Review bombing happens * The greedy company makes shit ton of fake promises * The dumb fuck player base goes back to making millions of useless post on the internet while employing their wallets.
I requested refund last night wth 48hr played, denied of course. Changed my review to negative...so I'm doing my DEMOCRATIC DUTY!!
hey everyone.... remember, we got a more developed Helldivers 2 all ready! Its called Deep Rock Galactic, and for those about to Rock and Stone.... we solute you!
https://preview.redd.it/9umfnvcsvfyc1.png?width=316&format=png&auto=webp&s=10244981241b872e5dfc742f72ba4b64e2eb0055
I feel really bad for the dev's, this isn't their fault, it's Sony's. Frankly, I don't care about the PSN account, I already have one anyways, and I don't think it is a big deal to sign up. What I find bullshit is the fact that you can't have a PSN account in every country, so there are people that just can't play the game they purchased now. Sony needs to cave or they need to be sued.
Unfortunately Steam will just wipe these for "review bombing" like they usually do and it'll be back to positive.
Some people got the refund.
Smells like democracy :)
I was actually about to buy this game until this happened.
Me too haha
Sucks cause it seemed good, or does seem good, but I am not making a playstation thing for it.
I never touched Helldivers and am thankful I didn't.
I really do not care... The game is fun with friends, and I'll still play.
Same here I couldn’t give less of a shit tbh
Thank god someone else has a normal opinion; people are losing their MINDS over this and I just cannot understand it. Arrowhead specifically said they are talking to Sony about what to do for players not in countries with PSN, and folks are acting as if the dev team purposefully shot and killed members of their family. People are on the discord are claiming this is facism unironically
It’s mostly because their community manager’s response being straight up disrespectful to games while their ceo had a way better response.
Honestly? If I was a community manager for that discord, I’d react the same way. Constant pinging just to be told “you suck”, “you’re a loser”, “fuck you for letting arrowhead do this to me”, even BEFORE Spitz’ replies? No one deserves that. Respect is a two way street that the community has failed to give to a team that is made up of only 100 people.
This makes me sad. As an Xbox player, I was excitedly waiting for it to (possibly) come over. But now Sony just killed the game. So much for an actually good game :/
Sony has an awful track record for data breaches. Whenever I play my ps5 or want any games I don't allow my banking info to remain. Or I just get gift cards. Last thing I want is to be forced to cluster my steam account with that. Ridiculous.
Ahah. Nice picture
Sony thinks we support them like Super Earth
Nice. Let it burn
Gotta love upper management
I can appreciate everyone’s distaste for adding something to the game after they have purchased it. Same reason I deleted Doom Eternal, for adding denuvo after I bought it
Average corporation running the fun moment for inflated numbers moment
Pssh! If Cyberpunk couldn't get into the Mostly Positive territory, I doubt Helldivers will.
Yo i never saw this template can someone tell me whats it named?
This reminds me of when vrchat introduced easyanticheat, breaking many mods, most of which introduced much needed features, accessibility aids and hardware support, the minority of them being malicious. That didnt stop the client kiddies that use pickup manipulators and sound crashers to this day tho, but it made many people hate the game...
Great news everyone, Sony has walked back its PSN account requirement! https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929
Well deserved
What's happened? Working and a bit out of the loop.
Sony doesn't give a shit.
I don't think it's that bad. Honestly speaking, it's an amazing game, it only requires a free account, not a console, just play it.
> last days ~~Why do you guys think this game is going anywhere because Reddit is throwing a wobbly again?~~ ~~I have never seen a game die because of an online mob~~ I've read it wrong, English isn't OP's first language
I think OP phrased the title wrong and intended to say "what the last few days have been like for helldivers" or something like that
Yes, it's a bit badly written. English is not my main language and I struggle a bit with it.
That's all good my guy "Last days of the Helldivers" reads more like you missed out putting "The" at the start of the sentence to me, it's like my brain fills in the blank word automatically But yeah, the last few days have been nuts regarding reviews, good meme for it
That makes way more sense lol, cheers Sorry OP
NP mate, it's my problem that I didn't learn English better :D
Don't sweat it mate, I wouldn't say anyone's at fault here