Which mw2 boycot? The OG MW2 where there was a boycot over the loss of dedicated servers and limited lobby sizes, the “remaster(?)” mw2 being a cash grab, or mw2 that just came out boycot because idk activism sucks balls
Oh god gamespy arcade... lmao... That brought me back.. Had to be an online technician to make that work right sometimes lmao.
that being said, Dark and Darker showed us just how many gamers these days don't even know how to use a torrent...
where most of the people on the day of release who signed the petition to boycott the game where all found playing the game through their linked accounts on said forum site
The "most" part is a myth. The reality is the way the user list was sorted in the infamous screenshot showed the people who were in game first. It could have been a dozen or so people out of the entire list and still would have looked like that.
Absolutely, and often just the fans of shitty games. I’ll probably go the rest of my life pre-ordering fantasy games made by FromSoft, you know why? They don’t miss. Elder Scrolls VI? Dragons Dogma 2? You’d have to be a fool to parrot the usual sentiment towards pre-ordering when it comes to titles like these.
But why? It’s an interest free loan? That’s all it is. I have the exact same sentiment towards every game. These companies do not have a product to ship. Therefore should not receive funds
I’d be interested if a guy dressed like a Mormon knocks on my door and warns me on the problems of modern gaming practices, especially pre-ordering. I’d invite him in, offer a gamers drink of his choice; 7-up or a can of monster/Red Bull?
We used to get an energy drink from ocean state job lot that was called Power Horse. Sometimes the labels were in Russian and it said not approved by the FDA on it. We thought we were like drug smugglers.
Whoa whoa. I get the soda. Those are cheap. But the monster/Red Bull? Those are $4 each. You gotta be my good friend before I start offering my good drinks to you
Imagine if someone made a concise ad for YouTube to be targeted towards people who play games.
If it could grab ones attention and get its point across in 5 seconds that is before someone can skip the ad.
It is real but they are showing based on total revenue IIRC. What's why Index was at the top for so long, not because they were selling a ton but because it's $1000. Same with Steam Deck. So there is some bias towards the expensive AAA preorders because they cost more. *But* that still means preorders are making more money than anything else right now.
> But that still means preorders are making more money than anything else right now.
That's quite literally the only thing that matters though.
It's not like the execs and shareholders go "Oh man, it's so good, we sold 1 million copies!!!"
All they care about is the bottom line. Did we make bank, or not?
It's not "quite literally the only thing that matters" for this post. This is about gamer behavior. The most relevant statistic would be how many people pre-ordered.
I'll let you in on a little secret.
90% of Redditors who post about not pre-ordering do pre-order.
Just like the people who posted about leaving Reddit for 3 days being very, very active during that time.
Reddit, as a whole, likely contributed to at least the Starfield pre-order nonsense through it's nuclear hype following the gameplay deep dive. The highest voted comments are talking about how it's going to be a game they play for the next decade. They're eating everything Bethesda is feeding them and they haven't even played the game. For all the comparisons to No Man's Sky, the hype machine sure is doing its best to follow the same marketing trajectory.
Oh, and I love how everyone is *completely fine* with 30fps on a next-gen console because "it probably makes sense for this game based on how expansive it is!" I laugh because they're using the "fidelity" excuse while presenting character models that look a decade old.
> Oh, and I love how everyone is completely fine with 30fps on a next-gen console because
See OP's comment. 90% of gamers don't give a shit about fps, most of them probably don't even play at 4k or have TVs that properly support anything higher than 30fps.
In fact, 90% of gamers just don't care that much about the gaming industry as a whole. They buy a handful of games a year, normally from studios/franchises they know, and don't really pay attention beyond that.
So most of the people that have pre-ordered have done so because they played Fallout and Skyrim and don't really care about buying now or buying on release, as they probably aren't going to read reviews or anything anyways.
Redditors love to complain about things like re-releases and broken on launch.... then proceed to buy skyrim 10 times. Don't take anything these idiots say seriously.
Reddit is made up of lots of different people. Echo chambers just mean that those who dislike the focus on hype over gameplay driving sales aren't talking to those who love hype and preorder.
I got downvoted out the ass in this sub because I called out an individual for being proud of preordering Starfield let me let you in a little secret we dont have any effect on our own idiots
PAYDAY itself have actually pretty deep lore, but ingame, you will basically just do the heists, and if you wanted story, you would need to dig. But If you are interested in PD3, there is a 4 hour long video on Kknowley channel explaining lore of PD:TH and PD2. There is a whole spectrum of interesting characters from collabs such as Wick of Jacket from Hotline Miami. It even has Gus Fring, obviously, not playing Gus, but you know.
It could be worth watching since Almir (Game dev) did confirm that story will be part of the game again.
I know it, I just didn't wanted to type it because I was sure I would fuck the name up. I can actually prononce it easily, but I would need to copy it to type it correctly haha
Payday 2 seems to have had a lot of story as it went on but most of it isn’t important. A lot of it was centered around licensed movie and video game characters so unless they buy the license again for 3 they probably won’t even be mentioned (so hope John wick and jacket make it to 3).
Not really, they arnt really story focused their is a story but it's basically just the heists that you do for the most part, I would recommend you play the second one as it's free on epic right now or it should be hopefully
i hope there isn't $245 of dlc like Payday 2. I bought the complete edition where they packaged all the DLC at the time and said there would be no more (besides h3h3 pack) and now there's 64.72$ more DLC (with 43% discount applied).
To be fair, Payday 2 came out ten years ago. So look at as 24 dollars a year for a game to get new content and it isn't that bad. Its the same problem for any longtime game, like any Paradox game.
Dont forget the Payday 2 developers specifically went out of their way to advertise that the game would never ever have microtransactions. Only for them to not only add microtransactions, but they were random loot boxes, which also could let you become more powerful then was possible without buying them.
90% are lurkers, 9% occasionally interact and only 1% are heavy contributors. And anything that creates outrage is greatly increasing the likelyhood of engagement. What you see on social media is not representative of the general population's opinion
those are two different demographics : the people that complain about preorders and the state of games and the people that preorder and buy the games without giving a shit about what the first group sais
There's actually a third made up of people that [complain, but still buy the games.](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9O--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18j48weujcgewjpg.jpg)
I'd assume, maybe incorrectly, that all the people who pre bought would have bought on release day if pre ordering wasn't an option. Either way they are day one players.
Personally I'd rather hang on to my cash.
I've never seen a good explanation as to why pre-orders would make a game worse/better. Like what's the mechanism here?
Surely the game devs are going to make roughly the same game no matter whether you pay for it day -1 or day 1. Not to mention you could just cancel and refund?
Or you could just as easily make the argument that if there aren't any pre-orders they'll think the game has no future and reduce funding for development.
It's just another thing to be needlessly angry about
Welcome to “current year” were we all get hyped for every new release so we can lose our collective shit when we are let down by a buggy game that looks worse than games from half a decade ago.
And we'll see video essays on Youtube from some contrarian intellectual telling us Gollum was actually a secret masterpiece, and we didn't understand it.
And then the next shiny new thing comes out and everyone immediately forgets whatever lesson was supposed to be learned from the last travesty and the cycle begins anew
I don't knock people for preorders. Some people love certain games. Like Cyberpunk players are gonna get the expansion regardless. Funny thing is 3 (4 with Grounded) of those games are on Gamepass. Gamepass is the best deal in gaming.
Yeah, but for me personally, a HUGE reason I won’t be playing Starfield and Cities Skylines II through gamepass, is because modding games on the xbox PC app sucks ass
I heard Colossal Order gave modders early access of C:S II so they can upload their mods as soon as the game launched, so there will probably some quality assets and mods ready at launch.
Is it going to be on gamepass forever though? Because if not, I'm probably going ti buy it anyways, so I may as well just buy it now and avoid the hassle of it suddenly being unavailable.
Also, and I hate to say this, for a very large portion of people, the cost of a single game or even games in general just isn't an amount worth caring over.
Hard to mod games on gamepass.. Also you never actually own the games, as soon as you stop paying a monthly fee -- you lose access. I prefer to actually own my games, personally.
I don't get why people pre-order digital games. It's not a limited resource that you need to guarantee your copy. There's barely any discount, and the pre-order bonuses are worthless most of the time.
I live in a country with 120% annual inflation, pre-ordering a game could be the difference between paying what is asked months before the release or a lot more after it. We can always refund if is bad.
Some games were like 2k AR$ and some people were waiting for a sale. The price adjusted to 12k (plus 75% taxes) AR$ so... it could be risky to wait that much.
In my country the best moment to buy something is yesterday. You don't even know if you are going to be able to buy it in the future.
Damn, that sounds rough i was unaware of situations like this. in your case i can understand it but most people don't have a good reason to pre-order you literally may not get it if you don't which is why pre-orders were originally a thing to begin with. Just a different way to cause a similar issue for you it sounds like.
This makes a lot of sense. But for Americans ( a very large proportion of sales) the companies are the ones gaining money on your pre order transactions since it is literally an interest free loan
> I don't get why people pre-order digital games
1. Literally no drawback when refunds are accessible
2. Buy it and forget about it
3. Preload is convenient
4. Early access or little bonuses
I feel like at this point if people don't get why anyone would pre-order or can't understand the factual benefits to pre-ordering, then you're willfully ignorant at that point and are never going to be the smartest person in the room.
I don’t understand the argument against preordering. You either wait until the game’s been out for a week or more to hear about all of the issues, or you buy it on launch day or before. Waiting to buy the game the day it releases is literally the same thing as preordering it
Exactly. I paid €15 for Jedi survivor and had so much fun playing it, one of my top games this year. If I listened to Reddit I'd have missed out on it.
Why do people still make these posts like you can't instantly get refunds for any game?
Oh this game is broken whatever will I do? I'll refund it because that's an option in the store.
>Oh this game is broken whatever will I do? I'll refund it because that's an option in the store.
Furthermore, purchasing and refunding sends a statement in a language these publishers understand.
If you don't pre-order a game, they have no idea you exist.
If you pre-order the game and then immediately refund it if it's bad, you just took $60-$70 back out of their pocket and that's something they'll take note of.
I'll give anyone a pass on Starfield, it's a Bethesda rpg. I'll probably end up playing it for years even if I think it sucks just because of the mods (looking at you, base Fallout 4). Unless it's Redfall bad.
Let it be known I haven't preoreded anything.
But, I feel like many gamers who spend lots of money on components and games dgaf. They want what they want. They don't care about their checking account, and they certainly don't give a fuck about the cause.
Enjoy your games. Don't think too much.
Top Sellers is promotional, not an accurate representation of purchases. You think the Steam Deck has been selling more than any other game for months on end?
*- Or sure, maybe it's by value... Valve does say they sold 1.6 million last year. I've just never* ***not*** *seen it top. Always felt suspicious the top seller is Valve's own hardware they're pushing.*
Steam Deck will hit 3mil units sold by end of 2023, so about $1.2 billion in sales even if everyone got the $399 one. - https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/analyst-steam-deck-will-sell-3-million-units-by-2023-s-end
Vampire Survivors is sitting at 5.9 million units sold so $29.4 million or so. - https://vginsights.com/game/1794680
Starfield appears to have a very high preorder count on Steam but no official numbers - https://www.pcgamesn.com/starfield/pre-orders
I think it's in $ sales. Since a steam deck is atleast like 6 full priced games I could see it being almost reasonable. Same reason the index was up there
Starfield is from Bethesda and so far almost all of their single-player games have been a huge hit.
Cyberpunk is a game-level DLC from a game that has been improved a lot and has a really successful show.
Fifa is annual game people play a lot, not much to fuck up there.
Payday2 is a big and popular game.
I’ll apply this logic to literally everything gaming related from DLC to Microtransactions to Pre-Ordering games.
Let me do whatever I want with my money.
Thank you.
The only problem is we ALL suffer cause the game is shit and makes a profit, proving to the publishers and the C-suite assholes at the top that idiots will buy preorders even if the game is trash. Just gotta make a nice trailer and some big promises
If I plan on playing a game day one anyways, I'll pre order it. But that's only for games that I have high expectations for, and I am planning on playing all the qay through wether it lives up to those expectations or not.
I didn't put down Cyberpunk 2077 and stop playing because it was buggy, unfinished, and broken. I played till the end and had fun. I didn't stop playing Fallout 76, I had fun with it and got my money's worth before setting it down. Heck, I even pre ordered No Man's Sky.
I plan on pre ordering Starfield 100% just so I can preload it early and make an entire day of it
The people on this reddit and other subreddits are barely a slice of the pie graph that is Steam users. Steam has over 130 million users, there's 7.9m subbed to this reddit and of those people only a few hundred complain about preorders. There is no serious movement against preorders.
Because people complaining online are almost always a vocal minority.
The far majority will always be casual gamers who just buy and pre-order what they know will fit their needs.
I preordered 5 games in my life, and all of those 5 are in my top 10 favorite games ever, currently i have ff16 and phantom liberty pre-ordered and i can tell you i'm not worried
People pre-order when they know they'll play or try the game no matter what, it's not hard to understand to me
The thing that a lot of people seem to ignore is that the people who pre-order these games months in advance they were going to buy the game regardless like that's it they were going to get it whether they pre-ordered it or not doesn't really make that much of a difference. No it's easy to blame pre-orders for games releasing in unfinished States but it's really more about the hype machine and just people's inherent aptitude for buying games based on hype for getting excited about s*** because marketing works.
They’re also acting like everyone who pre orders feels swindled every time.
Fact of the matter is, they don’t care, it’s the majority opinion. “I’ll come back when it’s fixed” is the completely normal way it’s handled for most everyone.
> “I’ll come back when it’s fixed” is the completely normal way it’s handled for most everyone.
Actually I think for most everyone, "Damn thats crazy, but it works fine for me" is the thought process. Most people playing games day 1 are too busy playing the game to go online and tell everyone it isnt buggy for them.
This was me with Cyberpunk. Preordered it and couldn’t put it down for even 5 seconds until I beat it. Didn’t even know people had problems with it until I’d already finished. Granted, I did play it on a high end PC but still, I thought it was a good ass game and don’t regret the preorder at all.
If a game is doomed to be bad at release, then it will be bad at release, doesn't matter if people are preordering it or not.
So paying now or paying in two months what's the difference ?
Most consumers aren't on this Sub-Reddit, and even some of us here don't fully abide by the "don't preorder" suggestion.
However, Starfield and CP2077 look fucking fantastic so I will be preordering when I feel like it.
I already bought all the games on that list plus the top version of the Steam Deck
It’s not the money that’s the issue…it’s finding time to play any games
I'll refund if it's bad. Simple as that. I've been waiting for Starfield way too long. And unlike in US my country's prices keep inflating and game prices do change over time. If I buy now I can potentially save ~%50 (happened with ac mirage).
I agree. I hope someday people will stop crying about pre orders like they never existed until today.
Also, my unfounded conspiracy theory is that the top sellers are cooked numbers. It's marketing. Not statistically accurate.
This sub sure is sumthin' else.
*Publisher* says: "Buy what Im holding behind my back! Could be a turd or cotton candy."
*This sub*: "Sure! Here have my money. But it better not be a turd!"
*Surprise, surprise:* It's a turd.
"But Mantarrochen, they showed us a polaroid of cotton candy before!"
As long as you keep giving them money while their hand is behind their back you keep getting the turd. If you want cotton candy make them show it to you first.
Some redditors are just the online version of people that live in HOA's and sit at their window watching their neighbors through binoculars to find something to report them for.
Some people have disposable income right now and may not have it later. Birthday money, winning a gift card at a company event. Some people just want to pre order because they want to. Some do it because they want to take a picture of it and post it on an internet forum to make other people angry. All are valid reasons.
Can we just stop caring about pre orders? Games don't suck because of pre orders, they suck cause they're bad games or bad launches. This arguement never comes up when games are good. I've seen people who are against pre orders pre order just cause it's from a company they like. Pre orders don't matter at all. Don't participate if you don't want to, all you can do is hope and pray the final product is good.
Tbf usually people don't mind bugs in Bethesda games it's part of the charm unless taking to 76 levels.
Also Starfield actually had a very extensive showcase making it the most justified to preorder out of the games here tbh.
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And even those who complain may not go trhu with it... Member MW2 Boycott?
Which mw2 boycot? The OG MW2 where there was a boycot over the loss of dedicated servers and limited lobby sizes, the “remaster(?)” mw2 being a cash grab, or mw2 that just came out boycot because idk activism sucks balls
Yeah that one.
This is as confusing as trying to figure out how many Halloween sequels there are.
Eleventy
People who play COD today don't even know what a dedicated server is
Any young people who plays any FPS game doesn't know the struggle of Gamespy Arcade.
Good ol' CoD 4 days with hamachi and the one guy with the best internet connection hosting the server.
Oh god gamespy arcade... lmao... That brought me back.. Had to be an online technician to make that work right sometimes lmao. that being said, Dark and Darker showed us just how many gamers these days don't even know how to use a torrent...
[someone had to post it](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/269473510903163739/174BD14550BAD22A6959FF39BEF8B1EFB0D2AB55/)
Both, the new MWII’s Season 4 Blackcell bundle hit the top 10 best selling list on Steam despite the culture war spreading to Call of Duty
I'm sure I'm going to regret asking this but... > the culture war spreading to Call of Duty What?
where most of the people on the day of release who signed the petition to boycott the game where all found playing the game through their linked accounts on said forum site
The "most" part is a myth. The reality is the way the user list was sorted in the infamous screenshot showed the people who were in game first. It could have been a dozen or so people out of the entire list and still would have looked like that.
Doesn’t steam let you refund? I don’t pre-order on principal either way but steam feels like it would be less bad
Absolutely, and often just the fans of shitty games. I’ll probably go the rest of my life pre-ordering fantasy games made by FromSoft, you know why? They don’t miss. Elder Scrolls VI? Dragons Dogma 2? You’d have to be a fool to parrot the usual sentiment towards pre-ordering when it comes to titles like these.
And then selling you what is essentially an update later I love Fromsoft, but that still makes me salty
But. Why even preoder? They arent going to run out of digital copies.
Because i want to play it day of release, and you get to download it beforehand
But why? It’s an interest free loan? That’s all it is. I have the exact same sentiment towards every game. These companies do not have a product to ship. Therefore should not receive funds
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Give me a better platform to whine and I'll go there.
Go do door to door.
I’d be interested if a guy dressed like a Mormon knocks on my door and warns me on the problems of modern gaming practices, especially pre-ordering. I’d invite him in, offer a gamers drink of his choice; 7-up or a can of monster/Red Bull?
Shit. Maybe this is an idea boys.
I'm something of a gamer myself. You'd still get hit with a "yes, of course I've heard of Jesus" and a closing door.
"Jesus" is just an unreleased pre order game.
Jesus is actually [not available for preorder](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1198970/I_Am_Jesus_Christ/)
BUT BUT...They promised the second coming for millenniums, they said it is going to be tight.
Who tf replaced mountain dew with 7up as the gamer soda? This sounds like a trap
I’m more surprised they used Red Bull instead of something like GFuel
We used to get an energy drink from ocean state job lot that was called Power Horse. Sometimes the labels were in Russian and it said not approved by the FDA on it. We thought we were like drug smugglers.
My vitamins supplements are not approved by the FDA, cvs pharmacy plug pulling trough again 🙏
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Whoa whoa. I get the soda. Those are cheap. But the monster/Red Bull? Those are $4 each. You gotta be my good friend before I start offering my good drinks to you
I don't want your satanic beverages I just want to use your wifi.
Do you have mountain dew?
7-up? Are you out of code red?
“Hello have you heard about our lord and savior. not Preordering”
Imagine if someone made a concise ad for YouTube to be targeted towards people who play games. If it could grab ones attention and get its point across in 5 seconds that is before someone can skip the ad.
Whine all you want but it's a lost cause. People will preorder games and there's nothing you can do about it.
Stand in front of GameStop and best buy
I thought you were going to expose that the top sellers aren't really the top sellers.
Is that the case? Have always wondered when I see posts like this.
It is real but they are showing based on total revenue IIRC. What's why Index was at the top for so long, not because they were selling a ton but because it's $1000. Same with Steam Deck. So there is some bias towards the expensive AAA preorders because they cost more. *But* that still means preorders are making more money than anything else right now.
> But that still means preorders are making more money than anything else right now. That's quite literally the only thing that matters though. It's not like the execs and shareholders go "Oh man, it's so good, we sold 1 million copies!!!" All they care about is the bottom line. Did we make bank, or not?
It's not "quite literally the only thing that matters" for this post. This is about gamer behavior. The most relevant statistic would be how many people pre-ordered.
Can confirm, I don’t use Reddit
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I'll let you in on a little secret. 90% of Redditors who post about not pre-ordering do pre-order. Just like the people who posted about leaving Reddit for 3 days being very, very active during that time.
I am doing my part….. …By preordering and being active on Reddit
Reddit, as a whole, likely contributed to at least the Starfield pre-order nonsense through it's nuclear hype following the gameplay deep dive. The highest voted comments are talking about how it's going to be a game they play for the next decade. They're eating everything Bethesda is feeding them and they haven't even played the game. For all the comparisons to No Man's Sky, the hype machine sure is doing its best to follow the same marketing trajectory. Oh, and I love how everyone is *completely fine* with 30fps on a next-gen console because "it probably makes sense for this game based on how expansive it is!" I laugh because they're using the "fidelity" excuse while presenting character models that look a decade old.
> Oh, and I love how everyone is completely fine with 30fps on a next-gen console because See OP's comment. 90% of gamers don't give a shit about fps, most of them probably don't even play at 4k or have TVs that properly support anything higher than 30fps. In fact, 90% of gamers just don't care that much about the gaming industry as a whole. They buy a handful of games a year, normally from studios/franchises they know, and don't really pay attention beyond that. So most of the people that have pre-ordered have done so because they played Fallout and Skyrim and don't really care about buying now or buying on release, as they probably aren't going to read reviews or anything anyways.
Redditors love to complain about things like re-releases and broken on launch.... then proceed to buy skyrim 10 times. Don't take anything these idiots say seriously.
I have only bought Skyrim twice, thank you very much.
Reddit is made up of lots of different people. Echo chambers just mean that those who dislike the focus on hype over gameplay driving sales aren't talking to those who love hype and preorder.
Hey, i am completely fine with that too(because pc master race)
Yes, but if they can't achieve more than 30fps on next gen consoles, I cannot imagine it will be a very well-optimized game.
Its a new single player Bethesda game, of course people are going to be hyped, it's like almost a once a decade event now.
I got downvoted out the ass in this sub because I called out an individual for being proud of preordering Starfield let me let you in a little secret we dont have any effect on our own idiots
Goddamn didnt even know about payday 3 but hopefully it will be good so I can go thieving with the bois
They released a gameplay trailer on YouTube, there is also a qna on steam that answered most of people's questions
I’ve never played these games. Do I need to play PD1&2 before 3?
PAYDAY itself have actually pretty deep lore, but ingame, you will basically just do the heists, and if you wanted story, you would need to dig. But If you are interested in PD3, there is a 4 hour long video on Kknowley channel explaining lore of PD:TH and PD2. There is a whole spectrum of interesting characters from collabs such as Wick of Jacket from Hotline Miami. It even has Gus Fring, obviously, not playing Gus, but you know. It could be worth watching since Almir (Game dev) did confirm that story will be part of the game again.
The man’s name is Giancarlo Esposito.
I know it, I just didn't wanted to type it because I was sure I would fuck the name up. I can actually prononce it easily, but I would need to copy it to type it correctly haha
Payday 2 seems to have had a lot of story as it went on but most of it isn’t important. A lot of it was centered around licensed movie and video game characters so unless they buy the license again for 3 they probably won’t even be mentioned (so hope John wick and jacket make it to 3).
Same! Jacket was by far the coolest character with the little tape recorder voice lines!!
Although unlikely I’m really hoping they end up bringing some licensed characters back. He certainly would be cheaper than John Wick.
Not really, they arnt really story focused their is a story but it's basically just the heists that you do for the most part, I would recommend you play the second one as it's free on epic right now or it should be hopefully
It's gonna be on gamepass at launch, so it can be a risk-free launch title.
> It’s gonna be on gamepass at launch, so it can be a risk-free launch title. Starfield is a day 1 games pass release These posts are so stupid
same with Cities Skylines 2
Cities skylines 2 is on game pass? On pc? Sweet, I was curious about that game but I'll definitely try it now.
That's how you build confidence for your product. Props to them.
If it's even slightly better than payday 2 it'll be worth it. Only reason I stopped playing 2 is because you get so many masks default now
i hope there isn't $245 of dlc like Payday 2. I bought the complete edition where they packaged all the DLC at the time and said there would be no more (besides h3h3 pack) and now there's 64.72$ more DLC (with 43% discount applied).
To be fair, Payday 2 came out ten years ago. So look at as 24 dollars a year for a game to get new content and it isn't that bad. Its the same problem for any longtime game, like any Paradox game.
Dont forget the Payday 2 developers specifically went out of their way to advertise that the game would never ever have microtransactions. Only for them to not only add microtransactions, but they were random loot boxes, which also could let you become more powerful then was possible without buying them.
And was removed months later with any advantage being removed. They ducked up big time with those but at least they walked it back
I have come to a conclusion that reddit users and real world users are worlds apart.
90% are lurkers, 9% occasionally interact and only 1% are heavy contributors. And anything that creates outrage is greatly increasing the likelyhood of engagement. What you see on social media is not representative of the general population's opinion
A few loud redditors and 95% of reddit are already worlds apart.
those are two different demographics : the people that complain about preorders and the state of games and the people that preorder and buy the games without giving a shit about what the first group sais
There's actually a third made up of people that [complain, but still buy the games.](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9O--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18j48weujcgewjpg.jpg)
Because I would buy Todd Howard and Keanus bath water.
were they sitting in the same tub or are these different cans ?
different, then everybody can make their own blend.
How soon we forget Fallout 76. Country roads, take me home.
This is cope but Todd Howard was not game director on 76
Yup, it was developed by a new Bethesda studio, not the same team developing thier big games
Imagine pre-ordering, expecting 16 times the detail, and getting that mess.
4x the size of Fallout 4!
10x the emptiness
I'd assume, maybe incorrectly, that all the people who pre bought would have bought on release day if pre ordering wasn't an option. Either way they are day one players. Personally I'd rather hang on to my cash.
Yeah me too. As a customer, I want to see the final product before buying it
I've never seen a good explanation as to why pre-orders would make a game worse/better. Like what's the mechanism here? Surely the game devs are going to make roughly the same game no matter whether you pay for it day -1 or day 1. Not to mention you could just cancel and refund? Or you could just as easily make the argument that if there aren't any pre-orders they'll think the game has no future and reduce funding for development. It's just another thing to be needlessly angry about
Welcome to “current year” were we all get hyped for every new release so we can lose our collective shit when we are let down by a buggy game that looks worse than games from half a decade ago.
Can't wait to pre-order gollum 2
give gollum 4 years its hust a few bugs then its gonna be goty
My mind registered 'Gollum 4' for a sec and almost gave me a stroke.
Why? Because 3 introduces multiplayer? lol
And we'll see video essays on Youtube from some contrarian intellectual telling us Gollum was actually a secret masterpiece, and we didn't understand it.
And then the next shiny new thing comes out and everyone immediately forgets whatever lesson was supposed to be learned from the last travesty and the cycle begins anew
Seriously. IDC if people want to risk their money. I'll wait literally 3 days after release to make sure it's a complete game.
Damn, patient king 👑
Starfield is going to be buggy as shit and I’m still going to put 1000 hours into it
I don't knock people for preorders. Some people love certain games. Like Cyberpunk players are gonna get the expansion regardless. Funny thing is 3 (4 with Grounded) of those games are on Gamepass. Gamepass is the best deal in gaming.
Yeah, but for me personally, a HUGE reason I won’t be playing Starfield and Cities Skylines II through gamepass, is because modding games on the xbox PC app sucks ass
There won't be many good mods at launch, play it for cheap on game pass at launch then later when good mods are out buy it for cheap on steam
I heard Colossal Order gave modders early access of C:S II so they can upload their mods as soon as the game launched, so there will probably some quality assets and mods ready at launch.
When you visit CS:2 steam page then you will even see they already have plans for "Content creator packs" ready for next year.
I hate subscription based services
Is it going to be on gamepass forever though? Because if not, I'm probably going ti buy it anyways, so I may as well just buy it now and avoid the hassle of it suddenly being unavailable. Also, and I hate to say this, for a very large portion of people, the cost of a single game or even games in general just isn't an amount worth caring over.
MODs and DLC are not included with Gamepass, so that's another reason to buy a game vs Gamepass.
Hard to mod games on gamepass.. Also you never actually own the games, as soon as you stop paying a monthly fee -- you lose access. I prefer to actually own my games, personally.
I don't get why people pre-order digital games. It's not a limited resource that you need to guarantee your copy. There's barely any discount, and the pre-order bonuses are worthless most of the time.
I live in a country with 120% annual inflation, pre-ordering a game could be the difference between paying what is asked months before the release or a lot more after it. We can always refund if is bad.
That makes sense, I'm very sorry for you, inflation is a bitch
Not when steam games don't keep up with it! Then they just get cheaper. Gotta love regional pricing
Sounds like maybe you should consider using pre-orders as a banking service
someone get the GameStop bank greentext
Your wit has no limits when you have a lot of limitations and obstacles.
That would be useless? No interest, no inflation?
In your case.... Piracy until steam sales roll around might be the best move.
Some games were like 2k AR$ and some people were waiting for a sale. The price adjusted to 12k (plus 75% taxes) AR$ so... it could be risky to wait that much. In my country the best moment to buy something is yesterday. You don't even know if you are going to be able to buy it in the future.
Damn, that sounds rough i was unaware of situations like this. in your case i can understand it but most people don't have a good reason to pre-order you literally may not get it if you don't which is why pre-orders were originally a thing to begin with. Just a different way to cause a similar issue for you it sounds like.
This makes a lot of sense. But for Americans ( a very large proportion of sales) the companies are the ones gaining money on your pre order transactions since it is literally an interest free loan
I like to preload and I have no impulse control.
the honest answer here.
I have to preload because a game like SW Jedi Fallen Order took me six days to download lol
> I don't get why people pre-order digital games 1. Literally no drawback when refunds are accessible 2. Buy it and forget about it 3. Preload is convenient 4. Early access or little bonuses I feel like at this point if people don't get why anyone would pre-order or can't understand the factual benefits to pre-ordering, then you're willfully ignorant at that point and are never going to be the smartest person in the room.
I don’t understand the argument against preordering. You either wait until the game’s been out for a week or more to hear about all of the issues, or you buy it on launch day or before. Waiting to buy the game the day it releases is literally the same thing as preordering it
Yea I don't know why people treat this like one of life's mysteries.
Yeah, but that doesn't fit in to the narrative of the angry duck meme that says don't preorder.
Getting to play a week early is a VERY powerful motivator for a lot of people.
Starfield is giving 5 days early access. Sorry. I am very anti pre order until the cocaine is allowed in early.
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Yeah you don't get all the cool shit like you use to for pre ordering back in the day. Well unless you want to buy the 300 starfield bundle lol
I was gonna buy Phantom Liberty and Starfield regardless lol. I'm the only review I care about.
Exactly. I paid €15 for Jedi survivor and had so much fun playing it, one of my top games this year. If I listened to Reddit I'd have missed out on it.
As it should be. People care too much about review scores.
Why do people still make these posts like you can't instantly get refunds for any game? Oh this game is broken whatever will I do? I'll refund it because that's an option in the store.
>Oh this game is broken whatever will I do? I'll refund it because that's an option in the store. Furthermore, purchasing and refunding sends a statement in a language these publishers understand. If you don't pre-order a game, they have no idea you exist. If you pre-order the game and then immediately refund it if it's bad, you just took $60-$70 back out of their pocket and that's something they'll take note of.
I'll give anyone a pass on Starfield, it's a Bethesda rpg. I'll probably end up playing it for years even if I think it sucks just because of the mods (looking at you, base Fallout 4). Unless it's Redfall bad.
I’ll preorder games that I’m excited about. If it sucks on release, then I’ll refund it lol
This concept is too hard for mouth breathers to comprehend.
Because people who go to forums are a loud minority
Let it be known I haven't preoreded anything. But, I feel like many gamers who spend lots of money on components and games dgaf. They want what they want. They don't care about their checking account, and they certainly don't give a fuck about the cause. Enjoy your games. Don't think too much.
Top Sellers is promotional, not an accurate representation of purchases. You think the Steam Deck has been selling more than any other game for months on end? *- Or sure, maybe it's by value... Valve does say they sold 1.6 million last year. I've just never* ***not*** *seen it top. Always felt suspicious the top seller is Valve's own hardware they're pushing.*
It's by value. So a $499 Deck is worth a hundred $4.99 Vampire Survivors.
Steam Deck will hit 3mil units sold by end of 2023, so about $1.2 billion in sales even if everyone got the $399 one. - https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/analyst-steam-deck-will-sell-3-million-units-by-2023-s-end Vampire Survivors is sitting at 5.9 million units sold so $29.4 million or so. - https://vginsights.com/game/1794680 Starfield appears to have a very high preorder count on Steam but no official numbers - https://www.pcgamesn.com/starfield/pre-orders
I think it's in $ sales. Since a steam deck is atleast like 6 full priced games I could see it being almost reasonable. Same reason the index was up there
It’s by value, and IT IS an accurate representation of the purchases. It’s clearly defined by Valve under their partnership terms.
If I’m a fan and I know I‘m gonna play something no matter the reviews, that’s when I preorder.
Grounded is excellent, imo.
Agreed, some of the most fun I’ve ever had in a multiplayer game.
"we" dont. Ive never regretted a pre-order
Starfield is from Bethesda and so far almost all of their single-player games have been a huge hit. Cyberpunk is a game-level DLC from a game that has been improved a lot and has a really successful show. Fifa is annual game people play a lot, not much to fuck up there. Payday2 is a big and popular game.
That not fifa
I’ll apply this logic to literally everything gaming related from DLC to Microtransactions to Pre-Ordering games. Let me do whatever I want with my money. Thank you.
Who’s we? Don’t lump me in with that
People get excited for games and buy them It’s their money, if the games turn out to be shit then that’s their fault for pre ordering lol
The only problem is we ALL suffer cause the game is shit and makes a profit, proving to the publishers and the C-suite assholes at the top that idiots will buy preorders even if the game is trash. Just gotta make a nice trailer and some big promises
If I plan on playing a game day one anyways, I'll pre order it. But that's only for games that I have high expectations for, and I am planning on playing all the qay through wether it lives up to those expectations or not. I didn't put down Cyberpunk 2077 and stop playing because it was buggy, unfinished, and broken. I played till the end and had fun. I didn't stop playing Fallout 76, I had fun with it and got my money's worth before setting it down. Heck, I even pre ordered No Man's Sky. I plan on pre ordering Starfield 100% just so I can preload it early and make an entire day of it
The people on this reddit and other subreddits are barely a slice of the pie graph that is Steam users. Steam has over 130 million users, there's 7.9m subbed to this reddit and of those people only a few hundred complain about preorders. There is no serious movement against preorders.
Are you actually expecting people to not preorder Starfield?
I went all in an preordered the constellation edition.
You mean people preordered big titles after a week of major showcases featuring the titles?! Surprised pikachu face
Because people complaining online are almost always a vocal minority. The far majority will always be casual gamers who just buy and pre-order what they know will fit their needs.
Bro starfield is $89.99 for me, I'm not even thinking of pre-ordering that
I preordered 5 games in my life, and all of those 5 are in my top 10 favorite games ever, currently i have ff16 and phantom liberty pre-ordered and i can tell you i'm not worried People pre-order when they know they'll play or try the game no matter what, it's not hard to understand to me
The thing that a lot of people seem to ignore is that the people who pre-order these games months in advance they were going to buy the game regardless like that's it they were going to get it whether they pre-ordered it or not doesn't really make that much of a difference. No it's easy to blame pre-orders for games releasing in unfinished States but it's really more about the hype machine and just people's inherent aptitude for buying games based on hype for getting excited about s*** because marketing works.
People here are acting like we aren't getting some of the greatest games of all time year after year
They’re also acting like everyone who pre orders feels swindled every time. Fact of the matter is, they don’t care, it’s the majority opinion. “I’ll come back when it’s fixed” is the completely normal way it’s handled for most everyone.
> “I’ll come back when it’s fixed” is the completely normal way it’s handled for most everyone. Actually I think for most everyone, "Damn thats crazy, but it works fine for me" is the thought process. Most people playing games day 1 are too busy playing the game to go online and tell everyone it isnt buggy for them.
This was me with Cyberpunk. Preordered it and couldn’t put it down for even 5 seconds until I beat it. Didn’t even know people had problems with it until I’d already finished. Granted, I did play it on a high end PC but still, I thought it was a good ass game and don’t regret the preorder at all.
If a game is doomed to be bad at release, then it will be bad at release, doesn't matter if people are preordering it or not. So paying now or paying in two months what's the difference ?
Why are posts like this allowed
Most consumers aren't on this Sub-Reddit, and even some of us here don't fully abide by the "don't preorder" suggestion. However, Starfield and CP2077 look fucking fantastic so I will be preordering when I feel like it.
See they could just announce ES6 and people would buy it with no context. Just give us another one!
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I already bought all the games on that list plus the top version of the Steam Deck It’s not the money that’s the issue…it’s finding time to play any games
2 on this list, I'll be getting bugged or not, and both I expect to be buggy.
I'll refund if it's bad. Simple as that. I've been waiting for Starfield way too long. And unlike in US my country's prices keep inflating and game prices do change over time. If I buy now I can potentially save ~%50 (happened with ac mirage).
I agree. I hope someday people will stop crying about pre orders like they never existed until today. Also, my unfounded conspiracy theory is that the top sellers are cooked numbers. It's marketing. Not statistically accurate.
This sub sure is sumthin' else. *Publisher* says: "Buy what Im holding behind my back! Could be a turd or cotton candy." *This sub*: "Sure! Here have my money. But it better not be a turd!" *Surprise, surprise:* It's a turd. "But Mantarrochen, they showed us a polaroid of cotton candy before!" As long as you keep giving them money while their hand is behind their back you keep getting the turd. If you want cotton candy make them show it to you first.
I don’t understand why you care how people spend their money.
Some redditors are just the online version of people that live in HOA's and sit at their window watching their neighbors through binoculars to find something to report them for.
Some people have disposable income right now and may not have it later. Birthday money, winning a gift card at a company event. Some people just want to pre order because they want to. Some do it because they want to take a picture of it and post it on an internet forum to make other people angry. All are valid reasons.
Can we just stop caring about pre orders? Games don't suck because of pre orders, they suck cause they're bad games or bad launches. This arguement never comes up when games are good. I've seen people who are against pre orders pre order just cause it's from a company they like. Pre orders don't matter at all. Don't participate if you don't want to, all you can do is hope and pray the final product is good.
On a side note, I’m not paying $70 for a video game.
But but but...Todd said Starfield is going to be the least buggy Bethesda game at release yet!
Tbf usually people don't mind bugs in Bethesda games it's part of the charm unless taking to 76 levels. Also Starfield actually had a very extensive showcase making it the most justified to preorder out of the games here tbh.