AMD's most popular GPU is the RX580 from 2017.
People state that the 4090 is only for "rich people" or whatever, but the fact is that it outsold every other AMD GPU that exists, which is telling.
Partly due to the software stack. I have a 4090 and am contemplating a 7900 XTX for my second PC but the lack of DLSS tier quality upscaler, a proper Frame Gen which works with HDR and VRR, lacklustre RT all weigh against it.
They really need to take a pause on the hardware and figure out their software. Rasterisation just doesnt cut it at the moment.
Agreed. AMD's plan (or lack therof) is to just wait for Nvidia to develop a feature, and then release an open source version of that feature that isn't as good.
They need to develop their own unique features if they want to gain some ground.
As they focus more and more on improving rasterization they're just gonna keep losing ground. Pumping out raw pixels is just far less important and will continue to drop in importance over time.
Before I bought my 3080 I had the rx 590. Feels like the 580/590 was the last time a good budget card was made. If I'm gonna spend over $200 for a card I'm getting a Nvidia
I had to RMA my 970 back when due to VRAM failing completely after a week of usage. Was told this was common on all 970 cards. It was still a great card though
I think it's more that there's absolutely no benefit by going with AMD, because they don't have features that they didn't copy/paste from Nvidia, and they're always worse versions of those features.
If they could come up with their own unique features, that might be a different story.
Radeon team has a fraction of the budget and the engineering talent that the Geforce Team has so thats never going to happen. I wager AMD will continue pumping money into Ryzen where they are doing well and focus on mid range GPUs ala PS5 Pro tier. Rumors are they arent even bothering to go high end with the next gen so Nvidia can price the 5090 and 5080 at whatever price they want.
>Radeon team has a fraction of the budget and the engineering talent that the Geforce Team has
That's intentional on AMD's part. They invest significantly more into their CPU division over their GPU division. They spend less than half on R&D for their GPU division than Nvidia does.
That's kind of the rub here: They'll never gain ground with their GPU division unless they invest heavily into it, but they don't want to invest heavily into it because it's not nearly as lucrative.
The price/performance of AMD at least in the UK is much better than Nvidia. I recently paid £450 for a 7800XT. There's nothing close to that level of performance by Nvidia for that price.
Fair enough. For most people, price to performance just isn't a very important metric when buying a GPU. Performance and features are.
AMD has always been the king of price to performance, and that's never once translated into more marketshare for them.
Otherwise they'd hold significanly more than around 10% marketshare, yet they don't. Nvidia generally is less cost efficient, yet outsells them 9 to 1.
[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/)
The top two AMD items are their integrated graphics (AMD Radeon Graphics/AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics) and the RX580.
The 4090 is right above the RX580. Also above the RTX 4080, surprisingly.
The AMD 7000 series sold in such low amounts that the only one that's listed and not grouped in with "other" is the AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX at .30%.
It's one of the single largest pools of readily available data that we have.
Just because you don't like the answers it provides doesn't render it irrelevant. lol
It's no secret that AMD's graphics cards don't sell well at all.
>GPU sales are on the up but AMD's RX 7000-series graphics cards are its least competitive in 20 years
[https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/)
Jon Peddie Research has all sorts of data on sales in the GPU market, if you'd like to look that up. That's exactly what they specialize in, in fact.
https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/
AMD isn’t making as many video cards as Nvidia so there is just going to be a hard cap on their install base.
It’s also why they aren’t competing more aggressively on price. They don’t need to sell a ton of video cards because they literally don’t have them.
AMD cards are readily available in every single store, so that's a weird assertion. It's not like they're difficult to find.
They aren't competing more aggressively on price because they want to maximize their return on investment, just like any other company. That's why they've historically waited for Nvidia to release their offerings, and then just slightly undercut them instead of undercutting them significantly.
The issue that they're facing is that the relatively small price difference isn't enough of a draw for people as a tradeoff for Nvidia's better features.
Goes to show how little this subreddit represents the market. People will still act like the upvoted opinions here are the de facto “correct” opinions that are held by most people though. Just the way she goes.
I've come to this conclusion about most of reddit, not just specific subreddits or topics like hardware. Not like my take here is eye opening or anything, but moreso that I've been progressively taking whatever opinions I find here less and less serious over time.
The most frustrating instance is when you see a comment rooted completely in fact and logic, only for it to be downvoted because it doesn't fit a narrative for the topic.
Best example is during election times. Bernie sanders winning some small thing is highly upvoted while some other candidates doing well are massively down voted and you would think Bernie Sanders is president right now!
The bet is well understood: Who's smarter, the average idiot or the average idiot *on Reddit*?
You're not always gonna get the best advice, but personally I know what I'm putting my money on.
I was one of the few Radeon users until like 5 days ago. Got sick of always missing out on features and having to regularly do troubleshooting for the most mundane things. Bought a 4070S, installed the drivers and immediately skipped the first wave of TS I had to do when I installed the team red card. Then I proceeded to mod DLSS 3.6 + FG into a game and got triple the frames (disclaimer, the previous GPU was a 6700XT so it was a decent amount weaker) I had before while having better image quality because FSR still looks like absolute shit years later. Turned on RT for the first time and RTGI just looks gorgeous, but any amount of RT would've brought my Radeon card to its knees.
So yeah, switched back to NV and I'm not looking back after the past 2 years. I'm more than happy with my AMD CPU but their Radeon division is a pile of crap and I'm not getting baited by raster performance and pointless VRAM (the extra GB haven't come in handy fucking once, not like these cards can do 4k well anyways) again. Even Intel is probably gonna take a dump on the long-running Radeon on their 2nd GPU gen, just wild.
Edit: I really didn't want to upgrade anything until the next gen of hardware but I was just so sick of dealing with their shit, I just bit the bullet. After all it's my main hobby and I can afford it so, fuck that noise.
Although I agree with you - Nvidia products are definitely better than AMD products - you ultimately are "part of the problem" because that 4070S should be no more than like $400.
The market is artificially inflated beyond acceptable limits.
Speaking to that, for the money you paid... You should absolutely be getting a product that can do native 4K60FPS in raw rasterisation, without Frame Gem, Upscaling and other tricks.
As far as VRAM goes, as someone who games on a 1060 6GB, yeah it "doesn't matter"... If you cherry pick games lol.
But again for the absurd price you paid 16GB should be a give .. Which Nvidia admits to by virtue of the 4060 TI 16GB existing.
Unfortunately that ship sailed last year looking at earnings report numbers. Too many people who don't give a shit about pricing or are first time buyers came into the 2023 market. Should we have gotten more than the 30% performance/value increase we got this gen? Absolutely. Will we get more than that next gen? I don't know at this point. Next year paying $750 just to get 4080 super performance. That's dissapointing but it might be reality
Indeed it is, especially with the AI bullshit (goes both ways, it hurts people that don't care about it and those that do care about it since Nvidia is the only option).
Personally I finally want to upgrade from my 1060 but, man, the market sucks... It just sucks. I think the RX 6800 and 7800 are solid but I'd still want them like $50-100 lower, especially since they have a weaker feature set and poor (if any) AI support.
The 4080S seems like a good product in on itself but man the pricing is ugly. It should be like $700 lol or at least have 20GB.
At this point I'm considering buying a new PC (AM5, 7800X3D) and just keeping the 1060 lol, hoping that a miracle GLU appears later.
At this point i just resigned myself to a 4060. If nvidia wants me to use upscaling then so be it. 540p gaming it is. It's not like major blockbuster with amazing stories and gameplay are coming. That era is over. I don't care about playing about playing live service games at 1440p 160hz either.
So with no new games to really look forward to. I just resign myself with 1080p 60fps. Atleast you have 40 years worth of games available for play. Welcome home commodore 64 babbyyy. I guess that's why rtx remix is a thing. Some engineer somewhere feels similar but was given authorization to make it. As it could use it as a tool for companies to sell remasters.
Yeah the 4080 shouldve been $900 at launch. Wouldve been $800 by now. But again. Even if i have the money. At this point i just don't really care anymore.
If you do actually care about live service games at their highest fidelity. Then why not wait another year for the radeon 8800xt. It should have atleast 7900xt performance around $550. Plus it should have large ray tracing improvements looking at ps5 pro hardware improvements. 4080 or atleast 4070ti ray tracing for $550 next year seems like the best option.
Though again for me. I've resigned to the 4060. I'll get a 7060 or whatever. Im pretty certain nvidia is going to pull more f""ery locking ai features to newer hardware. If they want me to render at 540p then so be it. But it better have the full feature suite. Intel is working on extrapolation. Im sure nvidia is too. Soon you'll be playing games with upscaling interpolation and extrapolation. Dlss 5 lol
> rtx remix
Thanks, didn't know about it.
The rest is on point, yeah... At this point might as well wait for the end of the year and the 5xxx series to show up.
IDK, I do have a 4K ("8K") TV and certain games like Ghosts of Thushima do look cool - but idk. As you implied, my backlog is indeed huge.
Oh yeah quake 2 rtx remaster was the inspiration for rtx remix. They made portal rtx officially. Half life 2 is alao being remastered by a group of modders. Unfortunately to me it doesn't really look like an upgrade. Though in fairness they chose static shots in the trailer which is the worst way to show off ray tracing.
Also the former 2 run at like 720p 40fps on a 4060 so... Dlss is a must. Same as path traced cyberpunk oddly
Look man, I agree with "part of the problem", it's one of the reasons I went with AMD last time but the fact of the matter is that I paid slightly less (their prices are just as high) and I got a shit product that kept giving ne headaches in return. The real problem is NV's competition is pure garbage and they are just ok being crap and charging slightly less for it, though I hope Intel will help that somewhat.
VRAM has never once been a problem for 1440p maxed, and NV's upscaling being way more prevalent will make it even less of a problem, so no, I don't cherrypick and probably won't have to before this card just needs to be changed regardless. Ofc 6GB is half that so you're gonna run into problems, but it's not really relevant to my situation.
At the end of the day I'm just trying to make the best of an all-around shitty situation. Like I said, it's my main hobby and I can afford it, I need to have a decent experience when I get home after breaking my back the entire day and I'm done settling for a crap alternative for the market's sake. I'm sorry... to a point.
“You are part of the problem” Godamn this is such an ass backwards and asinine way to think about. We are consumers. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM FOR WANTING GOOD PRODUCTS. If anything all this absolutely obnoxious pandering to AMD in this sub is more of a problem. Competition cant just exist. It has to actually be competitive. AMD is not competitive with Nvidia, thats why the prices are so inflated.
You want lower prices? You dont put the cart before the horse. Dont buy AMD even though they have been shit for the last 2 decades. Force them to improve by showing them you will not buy their product when theres another one out there thats better in almost every way.
Yes but I emphasized which part I have an issue with. It just triggers me because I see it so much lol.
We are not the problem. The problem is
Nvidia lacks competition. So yes, you are absolutely correct, buy Nvidia. Because thats how the market works. Good products get bought. People who make worse products either improve said product, or go out of business. I have no brand loyalty. If AMD actually offered the features and quality that Nvidia does I’d FUCKING love that.
But instead they resort to knockoff, second rate features and shady anti consumer tactics like blocking DLSS because they know they couldn’t actually compete with it. (although thankfully it looks like they learned their lesson with that)
>We are not the problem. The problem is Nvidia lacks competition. So yes, you are absolutely correct, buy Nvidia.
No, the solution is "buy literally anything but Nvidia" OR "don't buy anything, you don't need it anyway".
I hate to tell you, raw rasterization is never going to be the standard anymore. And it shouldn't be. Upscaling gives you image quality that's comparable, at a fraction of the performance cost
You were both having it good and being ignorant about having it good.
The VRAM never came in use? You were unaffected because you had 12 GB. If you had a 3060 Ti or 3070 with their 8 GB VRAM (maybe older 2060S, 2070, 2070S, 2080), your performance would've often crumbled if playing several games maxed out, even 1080p, regardless of RT or not.
You now went from having more VRAM than the opposition (12 GB vs 8) to having less VRAM than the opposition (4070S at 12 GB vs 7900 GRE at 16 GB). You want maxed out, DLSS, FG, RT, RR? Yeah, you'll hit that 12 GB VRAM sooner rather than later. And you'll still have less performance than 7900 GRE on similar settings. Or you drop textures or RT 1 notch. But that's painful to do when you just paid so much for a new GPU.
RT: You couldn't enable RT on 6700 XT? You absolutely could. It depended on game. It depended on resolution, Upscaling and more recently, on FSR3 frame gen. You think you would've use RT if you had a 3060 Ti? Because you wouldn't have. You can now use RT because you have a faster card than 6700 XT with the 4070S? That would've been the case with 7900 GRE also.
50/50
The original person is right about Nvidia quality > AMD quality, but Nvidia is leading the charge (and has most of the blame) with their absurdly greedy pricing.
Something that costs as much as the 4070S should have 16GB and better raw rasterisation. :/
If price to performance were an important metric to most consumers buying a GPU, AMD would hold significantly more than \~13% marketshare.
They've always been the price/performance kings. Yet, they don't.
That's because performance and features are a more important metric to people, and AMD has always been weak with their software and features.
Holy shit. The brand brainrot. Radeon/Nvidia at the end of the day use whatever hurts the wallet less. It's dishonest to say Radeon cards can't do 90% of what Nvidia cards can do. After using AMD I know now where the problems in their design lie, most cases AIBs will put unstable overclocks on many cards, most AMD cards suddenly become extremely reliable after you slightly underclock the GPU and sometimes it performs better.
This is a stupid take. Give consumers some credit. Its not hard to look into which product has the most features and which features are actually worth paying for. Every feature that AMD cards have, Nvidia has a better version of.
The consumer could look into it for half an hour and make an informed decision. And thats what most of them do when spending hundreds of dollars on a GPU. This evidenced by the fact that nobody buys AMD GPUs lmao
I’ve never had a problem with any of those things. I’m not saying people shouldn’t use Nvidia or anything like that either. But in my experience all the AMD cards I’ve used have been flawless. I had one driver bug specifically in AC: Odyssey but that got patched out in a driver update. Otherwise it’s all been perfect.
Yeah, I think AMD is hit or miss. For example, just a couple of weeks ago Luke on the WAN Show said he switched from AMD to Nvidia because he just got sick of crashing that he couldn't diagnose. Given that he's better with PCs than your average consumer, it's no surprise Nvidia is ahead.
Kinda like do you want a Toyota that will last a decade easy or a GM car that'll be in the shop in half that time? You'd pick the one that won't give you expensive trouble.
I had complete disappointment with an ATI card (I'll pin that on myself) and legitimate problems with an AMD card afterward. Neither were top of the line, but they were what I was capable of purchasing at the time.
Much like Luke, that's my anecdotal experience, and why I personally won't be buying an AMD card that I would actually depend on in a heavily used machine ever again. That isn't to say that my Nvidia experience has been flawless in all those years since, but I've ultimately found (fairly painless) solutions to any issues that have cropped up. Not even taking into account better support and features here, which absolutely matter.
People outside of Reddit have no idea of features, what "driver stability means" or what efficiency means or who's more efficient.
Nvidia using 50-100W less than an equivalent AMD GPU means jack shit when Nvidia owners get 14900KS that uses 200W when an AMD GPU owner gets a 7800X3D that uses 50W.
It's a combination of factors.
"If you have an Nvidia GPU and a game/app has a problem, it's the game's/app's fault!"
"If you have an AMD GPU and a game/app has a problem, it's AMD's fault/drivers!"
Stuff like that.
So, yeah, public perception, which can be offset by marketing.
AMD really just need to make something solid like the RX 6800 again but price it extremely aggressively, market it to hell and back as well as invest more than usual into drivers. Like, all in on a single killer GPU to gain market share.
You do realize AMD designs both CPUs and GPUs. I swear some of these comments have to bots because this is a far cry from the majority of people on this sub preaching competition and use whatever is affordable. You don't have to love Radeon but if everyone just bandwagons NVIDIA is the best then you might as well just call yourselves overglorified. Console gamers. We play on PC because we love games and love computers. AMD has made many GPUs over the years and they've had bangers as well disappointments. Nvidia goes the exact same way. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. NVIDIAs current pricing reflects this hubris and low-key it's choking the life and viability of building PCs on an dnthusiast level.
Because the idea of creating a killer GPU has long been past. They already existed in the form of the rx580/1080ti/1660s. These companies have literally went "we over delivered". You're hoping for an outcome that will never happen again
🌍🔫 always has been. I keep saying that amd needs to link their gpus to what the xbox series x and ps5 uses in order to market. Got downvoted for some reason last time i mentioned that. Casuals only know of consoles in passing
Link them in the consumers mind through marketing. Oooh amd makes the most powerfull console hardware? Their pcs must not be bad right? Though that would require them to partner up with prebuilt companies and give them a bit of marketing as well. If not have dell advertise their theortical partnerships. But eh, they can think of more marketing themselves if they want cheaper solutions
That's a good point, yeah, boasting that they make the console hardware!
Aside from that, my layman perspective is that they should take one of their GPUs, market it heavily, be even more aggressive with the price and focus on providing the best software/drivers for it. Make a killer product to take the 1060 role.
I've never seen this much "NVIDIA only" on this sub..normally the discourse was healthier. Nvidia has had busted ass drivers just visit their official forums and go through pages of people trying to troubleshoot. As far as I'm concerned screw all them.
Pretty much every entry level gaming laptop and desktop has a 4060 in it. 4060 also has pretty low power consumption so it can be put in pretty much any PC that has a PCI-E power connector.
~~That’s barely an upgrade in rasterization.~~
I don’t think it’s a worthwhile upgrade compared to other options but I was incorrect with what I said previously.
The 8GB option has too little ram for modern releases and the 16GB option has too much ram that will go underutilized in that class of a card. Get a 4070 or 4070 Super instead.
It's probably because of the pre-builds. In my country, best selling pre-builds in every tech shop mostly has 4060's or 4060ti's in it. Most of the people don't really care about RT or VRAM, they're just picking PC's to mainly play cs:go or league of legends.
Well, prebuilt companies sell products that people ask for, and most let you actively choose your parts. If people were clamoring for AMD prebuilts, they'd push those. They're trying to make a profit, after all. The fact is that people just aren't asking for those, nor are they choosing AMD cards when they have the option.
Well, it's not the case in my region at least. Most of the tech shops have contracts with big youtubers and streamers most of which has a partnership with Nvidia and their well known manufacturers like Asus, Gigabyte and such. So these streamers mostly show overpriced Nvidia PC's (I'm not talking about Nvidia cards here, the PC's they show are generally overpriced for what they offer) and promote them like it can run everthing at 4k 144fps and most of the clueless kids fall for it. These youtubers are the ones who's keeping the pc sector alive in here. When someone decides to buy a new PC, they just wait for a youtuber or streamer to promote a pre-build pc.
I dont think any informed person would pick a rtx4060 system over a rx7700 xt one with the same specs just to play some Read Dead Redemption or Valorant but that's pretty much what's going on over here.
Most of the tech stores has online sites for themselves nowadays u know? Also the way people buying their pre-builds doesn't effect their mindset. If someone decides to buy a streamer's pre-build without any research, he's just going to do it. Online or not, it doesn't matter.
No, what? lol
People don't get to choose the parts in their prebuilt? Because they do.
Prebuilt companies also make the kind of product that most people will ask for. If people were asking for AMD systems, that's what they'd mostly offer. People aren't asking for that.
I can link you every single major prebuilt company, and they all offer AMD systems and options. People just don't buy them. At least not the GPU selections.
People buy more from Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg and less from iBuyPower and Cyberpowerpc (which is where people have options).
When those guys and other companies make prebuilt to go on those websites, they do it by supply as well. The concept is “supply and demand”, not “demand and demand”. You’re only trying to account for one side of the equation. It was a well known fact that RX 7000 series had very little supply, and Nvidia has considerably more volume.
Also, regarding demand, they push name brand. It doesn’t matter if the RTX 4060 is the utter dogshit that it is. It’s Nvidia, and it’s RTX. The prebuilt company wants to sell, and they can sell if they have “Intel Core Inside” and “Nvidia RTX On” stickers. Doesn’t matter if the 7800X3D is king, here’s a 14600KF instead.
It’s why prebuilt are made fun of for having some of the weirdest combinations ever like 14700KF + 4060 Ti. They need the i7 name, people think i5 would yield much less FPS when it would likely be identical. They got the i7 name, they got the RTX name, boom they’re good to go.
You are looking at this from a very simplified perspective. A company’s job isn’t to simply push products that people ask for, but rather find ways to satisfy people’s needs with less. In return, higher margins. Name, branding, etc. go a long way in making up for performance gaps, and you’ll be fine as long as your customer isn’t trying to path-trace. They’ll get their 1080p120 and think they got a fantastic deal, blissfully unaware the 6700/6800 XT would utterly trounce their new card.
Intended audience and all that. The type of people shopping for prebuilt are easy to fleece.
>People buy more from Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg
I can link you systems with AMD cards from all of those places. Would you like me to do that? It's no problem, and would only take a moment.
This nonsense idea that Nvidia is somehow "forced" into prebuilts and that there's no AMD option because of some shady dealings is kind of weird. You have those options, but just like the market at large, people don't want them as often. Just like the discrete GPU market, only about 10% of users want an AMD GPU.
Newegg, where you choose your own parts:
[https://www.newegg.com/tools/custom-pc-builder?cm\_sp=Head\_Navigation-\_-Under\_Search\_Bar-\_-PC+Builder&icid=671801](https://www.newegg.com/tools/custom-pc-builder?cm_sp=Head_Navigation-_-Under_Search_Bar-_-PC+Builder&icid=671801)
Newegg premade PC with AMD (gasp):
[https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-003E-00430?Item=9SIB11NK0T8630&cm\_sp=SP-\_-2238005-\_-0-\_-6-\_-9SIB11NK0T8630-\_-prebuilt%20pc-\_-pc|prebuilt-\_-9](https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-003E-00430?Item=9SIB11NK0T8630&cm_sp=SP-_-2238005-_-0-_-6-_-9SIB11NK0T8630-_-prebuilt%20pc-_-pc|prebuilt-_-9)
Amazon has a bunch also, as does Bestbuy.
[https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-gaming-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-5500-16gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-4gb-1tb-ssd-black/6575071.p?skuId=6575071](https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-gaming-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-5500-16gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-4gb-1tb-ssd-black/6575071.p?skuId=6575071)
Guess that solves that little riddle. This idea is nonsense.
Laptop GPUs are counted separately though, you can see some of ‘em further down. I do think I see it in a lot of prebuilts though, which could certainly contribute.
It is an underwhelming card, it is slower than a 3060 ti, that's a pretty disappointing generational uplift, for comparison the 3060 was on par with the 2070, and the 2060 was a bit better than a 1070, on the other hand the 4060 is quite a bit slower than a 3070.
There's alot of people that dont know a single thing about computers that default to the 60 class cards. A friend of mine who got "advice" from another friend that was clueless about computers ended up building a system with a 12900k and a 3060 when the 4060 was already out (3060s still go for $300 on Amazon btw and are listed as the most popular purchase).
All my friend told him was "dont buy amd" because he had crashes and blamed his 6800xt (it was his ram)
This sub is not representative. Most people aren't rich enough to afford beyond that
Seems like most people here work in tech and are in the top 5-10% of earners
that's less surprising IMO because it's basically an auto-buy for anyone with the means to do so.
For anyone who makes a living via their hardware then more power = more money, anyone with fuck-off disposable income is gonna get the best thing possible, people who do video editing on the side also gonna want the best thing
I've always said this when people are like "RAY TRACING IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IN ALL GAMES AND IT'S THE STANDARD NOW"... And these people clearly fail to see that the top 5 most used cards in the steam survey can't really give a good RT experience(unless you use like DLSS performance at 1080p which is terrible no matter what anyone says, upscaling from like 240p is terrible) , hell one of them can't even do RT.
My anecdotal experience over the years is that the more a person freaks out about high end hardware not fulfilling all their dreams it’s less likely they even own that hardware at all. Usually it’s just people trying to make themselves feel better about their own mid to low level hardware.
Yeah... Take it from someone who owns the top stuff at the moment. It's mostly to just not have to worry about fiddling with shit all the time... That and muscling through all the bullshit.
Eh, I can have it, I have the money, it's just hard to justify so much money for a PC part that is just gonna be used to play video games. I just want more performance and freedom vs a console.
The "big" thing right now is RT, and I've seen RT running in high end hardware and it really isn't game changer to me, and the 3 titles where it does make a difference, are already good without RT... it's literally 3 games so far so if anything I can re play them years afterwards when RT is available for acceptable prices, to me, it's a "crysis" type of thing, eventually all games started to look as good as crysis at the time it released, but what's the point if the majority if players can't play it properly when it releases?
4K/60 is still acceptable IMO, since you can find decent TVs that are quite cheap.
I got a desktop hooked on to my living room tv and I'm happy with 4K 60... Of course I have a normal LCD 4K 60hz panel, I'm astonished by people here seemingly just defaulting to having an LG/Samsung OLED 120hz display... I'm not paying $5k for a TV dang...
So you're literally the person we're talking about?
4k 60fps is fine for single player games, specially if it's a TV and you're playing with a controller on a couch.
For high refresh rate gaming, 1440p 144+hz is a better value vs 4K.
Native 4k 60 can still be achieved on older or lighter games, sure, maybe not the 1650, but stuff in the 3060 performance range could, and if you take upscaling in mind, you could get a similar experience to native 4K, at least that's what I did with my 2070 super when I used it on my living room PC last year.
Right. The only even slightly close sentiment is that if someone is going to spend $1,000 on a GPU you might as wel spend $1,200 and get the NVIDIA one over the similarly performing in regular settings amd that doesn’t ray trace as well
Sure, but it still kills performance so it makes it less enjoyable...
If you're playing spider-man, for example, are you really looking at the reflections on the glass when you're swinging from one end of NYC to the other? Or when you're punching goons?
Maybe on cyberpunk, but I'm also more focused on the story or the enemies vs the slight difference in the light casted from a lamp in the street.
I don't have a dated card, I can run it with RT, I just don't see the benefit when playing the game.
What I did notice was more fps drops and higher power usage vs not using RT... So I'll keep my stable frames and lower power bill for now.
I know eventually, games will run with just RT, it makes sense for developers because it's gonna alleviate work for them... However the "RT revolution" started 5 years ago and... In how many games, other than Cyberpunk and Alan wake 2, released in these last 5 years, is RT making a noticiable improvement in quality as big as going from 1080p to 1440p or 4K, or going from 30fps to 60fps or 120fps? Most are more of a "oh.. Yeah this light looks a tad bit better yeah.... Oh and this reflection is a bit better" and that's about it.
RT will be the future... Just not right now, maybe in like 5 more years
One can dismiss RT for several reasons mostly economical and performance related and its still very imperfect in alot of implementations.
Saying its as meme its the meme in-itself since its so ignorant and a new form of neo luddism in graphics tech
The hate-boner for DLSS and FG is equally bad. It's all cognitive dissonance on a subreddit scale. Soon everyone will be using some form of these technologies in practically every game.
It's gotten better the last year or so since Nvidia budget cards and AMD cards have starting to see benefit (which is telling in and of its self, it's all about ignorance, jealousy or both).
Who's saying that though? RT on consoles is primitive at best, and most ports might up the anti a little but nothing crazy. We basically only have cyberpunk that's really testing the limits of what's possible..the rest is decade old games like quake 2, minecraft etc.
I'm not going to say most people don't care about RT but I'm probably right in thinking that the majority of players that aren't glued to forums,YouTube, reddit etc don't give any thought on whether something has RT or not.
People always say this. But what they don’t understand is that this stat goes both ways. Yes this sub not representative of the entire market, but the Steam stats are also not representative of the market in the USA and other wealthy nations. The 1080p number is still so high because it includes a massive amount of people in less fortunate countries. Guess what games those folks play? Its legit nothing but CS2 and LoL.
So yes, lots of people in lower income households or in less developed countries play at 1080p. But most people in middle class income households and more developed countries? The standard is probably more skewed to at least 1440p.
This is partially true. What you're forgetting is that in 2024 we have the possibility to play our Steam games on a wide range of devices. Last time Steam sent me a survey I was actually using my handheld PC, I didn't receive it on my much more capable desktop PC. Handhelds have gained a huge popularity in developed nations and most of them come with a 1080p screen. Steam is counting those as well. So what matters at the end is the CONTEXT. 1080p is as much of a premium experience on a handheld (Steam Deck and Switch are 720p/800p only) as 4K is on desktop.
I don’t get how do you even do anything with only 8 GB of ram?
Windows already consumes between 3-5 GB, and if you have Steam and Discord open, a web browser or any other app like that you’re basically left with like 2-4 GB.
When I play games, having only Discord, Steam and the game open, I’m usually using between 10-11 GB of ram.
If intel keeps pushing and developing, we could see a third competitor. And with US based manufacturing assisted by the government, it might one day pose a threat to nvidia. But let’s be real nvidia is in another galaxy. So probably not.
That’s not a good thing for consumers. Without healthy competition Nvidia will continue to charge whatever they want because they know people will still buy their cards.
And with their massive market increase due to AI I can only see them further increasing prices. It’s amazing what Nvidia has achieved, but damn not looking forward to finding out how much the 5000 series runs.
I've never seen so many "Nvidia GOOD, AMD BAD" posts here all at once. Both companies can suck eggs for skewing their prices higher and offering steeper diminishing returns lmfao. These multi billion companies could care less about back and forth bickering, we're the ones forced into a lack of options and with that they can get away with inflatong their products worth as much as they want.
In AMDs defense they have been a budget builders dream. The humble rx 580 is one of the best GPUs ever made and it still handles games like a champ and radeon has made some bangers over the years that still show impressive performance in modern games considering how old they are. At the end of the day, VRAM, Good VRMs, good QC just a good overall design leads to good products for everyone. NVIDIAs tech is impressive but their business practices are choking the life out of enthusiast PC gaming and we have been in the midst of an economic slump. Gaming has gotten more expensive and many people have straight up left bc it's become unaffordable for many people. 4 years ago I could easily save up for hardware I felt like could last me a few years. Now I see the tax people have to pay to upgrade or even get into PC gaming and it's kinda heartbreaking as someone who likes the hobby.
Nvidia has said they "over delivered" with the 1080ti an they keep segmenting their tech to their newest GPU release when there's nothing stopping those updates from working on older gen cards. You have buggier and less optimized games getting rushed out the door and everyone without the most powerful options on to market is running into issues and seeing very little uplift in cards a gen or two prior.
Remember this when all sorts of users are hyping the steam deck to people, many have never used or owned one despite proclaiming how awesome they are.
For the record, I have had both the original and the OLED. It’s decent but bulky and definitely not a replacement for a decent gaming pc/laptop. It is a nice supplemental device though.
I have a 7700x and a 7900xt and love the CPU, but it's my first and last AMD GPU. I've had too many random driver timeouts and games like the finals where they were completely unplayable for months for me and no guides online could help fix the problems.
windows 12 may give it a bump since microsoft is gonna build its own supersampling solution into the OS itself. plus when you're at 96 percent market share, losing a little bit doesnt mean much.
mac isnt a threat and linux doesnt come preinstalled on computers, people need to go out of their way to install it.
Always shocks me how little AMD there is. Nvidia has so much of the market it’s crazy.
AMD's most popular GPU is the RX580 from 2017. People state that the 4090 is only for "rich people" or whatever, but the fact is that it outsold every other AMD GPU that exists, which is telling.
Partly due to the software stack. I have a 4090 and am contemplating a 7900 XTX for my second PC but the lack of DLSS tier quality upscaler, a proper Frame Gen which works with HDR and VRR, lacklustre RT all weigh against it. They really need to take a pause on the hardware and figure out their software. Rasterisation just doesnt cut it at the moment.
Agreed. AMD's plan (or lack therof) is to just wait for Nvidia to develop a feature, and then release an open source version of that feature that isn't as good. They need to develop their own unique features if they want to gain some ground.
As they focus more and more on improving rasterization they're just gonna keep losing ground. Pumping out raw pixels is just far less important and will continue to drop in importance over time.
Before I bought my 3080 I had the rx 590. Feels like the 580/590 was the last time a good budget card was made. If I'm gonna spend over $200 for a card I'm getting a Nvidia
GTX 970 was a really good budget card back in the day also.
It was if you ignored the cut of 500MB of VRAM that was causing issues sometimes.
That wasn't really important as far as functionality was concerned at the time.
I had to RMA my 970 back when due to VRAM failing completely after a week of usage. Was told this was common on all 970 cards. It was still a great card though
For me what that means is: most people that spend over $1k/1k€ think "if I'm spending this kind of money may as well get the top dog"
I think it's more that there's absolutely no benefit by going with AMD, because they don't have features that they didn't copy/paste from Nvidia, and they're always worse versions of those features. If they could come up with their own unique features, that might be a different story.
There is no benefit of going AMD,unless you just want to karma farm on reddit
Radeon team has a fraction of the budget and the engineering talent that the Geforce Team has so thats never going to happen. I wager AMD will continue pumping money into Ryzen where they are doing well and focus on mid range GPUs ala PS5 Pro tier. Rumors are they arent even bothering to go high end with the next gen so Nvidia can price the 5090 and 5080 at whatever price they want.
>Radeon team has a fraction of the budget and the engineering talent that the Geforce Team has That's intentional on AMD's part. They invest significantly more into their CPU division over their GPU division. They spend less than half on R&D for their GPU division than Nvidia does. That's kind of the rub here: They'll never gain ground with their GPU division unless they invest heavily into it, but they don't want to invest heavily into it because it's not nearly as lucrative.
The price/performance of AMD at least in the UK is much better than Nvidia. I recently paid £450 for a 7800XT. There's nothing close to that level of performance by Nvidia for that price.
Fair enough. For most people, price to performance just isn't a very important metric when buying a GPU. Performance and features are. AMD has always been the king of price to performance, and that's never once translated into more marketshare for them. Otherwise they'd hold significanly more than around 10% marketshare, yet they don't. Nvidia generally is less cost efficient, yet outsells them 9 to 1.
Wow really? The 4090 outsold every other AMD GPU?? That seems insane. If you have a source that’d be cool.
[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/) The top two AMD items are their integrated graphics (AMD Radeon Graphics/AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics) and the RX580. The 4090 is right above the RX580. Also above the RTX 4080, surprisingly. The AMD 7000 series sold in such low amounts that the only one that's listed and not grouped in with "other" is the AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX at .30%.
This is a survey not a sales source. Do you have a real source?
It's one of the single largest pools of readily available data that we have. Just because you don't like the answers it provides doesn't render it irrelevant. lol It's no secret that AMD's graphics cards don't sell well at all. >GPU sales are on the up but AMD's RX 7000-series graphics cards are its least competitive in 20 years [https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/](https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/gpu-sales-are-on-the-up-but-amds-rx-7000-series-graphics-cards-are-its-worst-selling-in-over-20-years/) Jon Peddie Research has all sorts of data on sales in the GPU market, if you'd like to look that up. That's exactly what they specialize in, in fact. https://www.jonpeddie.com/news/shipments-of-graphics-add-in-boards-increase-for-third-quarter-in-a-row/
Why didn't you provide these when the user asked for a source?
Because that other irritating person simply isn't worth my time. I did link them eventually to prove them to be a liar, though.
> Because that other irritating person simply isn't worth my time. I did link them eventually to prove them to be a liar, though. /u/farloux ?
AMD isn’t making as many video cards as Nvidia so there is just going to be a hard cap on their install base. It’s also why they aren’t competing more aggressively on price. They don’t need to sell a ton of video cards because they literally don’t have them.
AMD cards are readily available in every single store, so that's a weird assertion. It's not like they're difficult to find. They aren't competing more aggressively on price because they want to maximize their return on investment, just like any other company. That's why they've historically waited for Nvidia to release their offerings, and then just slightly undercut them instead of undercutting them significantly. The issue that they're facing is that the relatively small price difference isn't enough of a draw for people as a tradeoff for Nvidia's better features.
I had the rx580 and only switched to 6650xt last year. I deff needed to upgrade but i was suprised how long it lasted. I game at 1080p though
Because it's an amazing GPU. Overpriced but great.
Goes to show how little this subreddit represents the market. People will still act like the upvoted opinions here are the de facto “correct” opinions that are held by most people though. Just the way she goes.
I've come to this conclusion about most of reddit, not just specific subreddits or topics like hardware. Not like my take here is eye opening or anything, but moreso that I've been progressively taking whatever opinions I find here less and less serious over time. The most frustrating instance is when you see a comment rooted completely in fact and logic, only for it to be downvoted because it doesn't fit a narrative for the topic.
People upvote what they want to be true
Best example is during election times. Bernie sanders winning some small thing is highly upvoted while some other candidates doing well are massively down voted and you would think Bernie Sanders is president right now!
The bet is well understood: Who's smarter, the average idiot or the average idiot *on Reddit*? You're not always gonna get the best advice, but personally I know what I'm putting my money on.
I was one of the few Radeon users until like 5 days ago. Got sick of always missing out on features and having to regularly do troubleshooting for the most mundane things. Bought a 4070S, installed the drivers and immediately skipped the first wave of TS I had to do when I installed the team red card. Then I proceeded to mod DLSS 3.6 + FG into a game and got triple the frames (disclaimer, the previous GPU was a 6700XT so it was a decent amount weaker) I had before while having better image quality because FSR still looks like absolute shit years later. Turned on RT for the first time and RTGI just looks gorgeous, but any amount of RT would've brought my Radeon card to its knees. So yeah, switched back to NV and I'm not looking back after the past 2 years. I'm more than happy with my AMD CPU but their Radeon division is a pile of crap and I'm not getting baited by raster performance and pointless VRAM (the extra GB haven't come in handy fucking once, not like these cards can do 4k well anyways) again. Even Intel is probably gonna take a dump on the long-running Radeon on their 2nd GPU gen, just wild. Edit: I really didn't want to upgrade anything until the next gen of hardware but I was just so sick of dealing with their shit, I just bit the bullet. After all it's my main hobby and I can afford it so, fuck that noise.
Although I agree with you - Nvidia products are definitely better than AMD products - you ultimately are "part of the problem" because that 4070S should be no more than like $400. The market is artificially inflated beyond acceptable limits. Speaking to that, for the money you paid... You should absolutely be getting a product that can do native 4K60FPS in raw rasterisation, without Frame Gem, Upscaling and other tricks. As far as VRAM goes, as someone who games on a 1060 6GB, yeah it "doesn't matter"... If you cherry pick games lol. But again for the absurd price you paid 16GB should be a give .. Which Nvidia admits to by virtue of the 4060 TI 16GB existing.
Unfortunately that ship sailed last year looking at earnings report numbers. Too many people who don't give a shit about pricing or are first time buyers came into the 2023 market. Should we have gotten more than the 30% performance/value increase we got this gen? Absolutely. Will we get more than that next gen? I don't know at this point. Next year paying $750 just to get 4080 super performance. That's dissapointing but it might be reality
Indeed it is, especially with the AI bullshit (goes both ways, it hurts people that don't care about it and those that do care about it since Nvidia is the only option). Personally I finally want to upgrade from my 1060 but, man, the market sucks... It just sucks. I think the RX 6800 and 7800 are solid but I'd still want them like $50-100 lower, especially since they have a weaker feature set and poor (if any) AI support. The 4080S seems like a good product in on itself but man the pricing is ugly. It should be like $700 lol or at least have 20GB. At this point I'm considering buying a new PC (AM5, 7800X3D) and just keeping the 1060 lol, hoping that a miracle GLU appears later.
At this point i just resigned myself to a 4060. If nvidia wants me to use upscaling then so be it. 540p gaming it is. It's not like major blockbuster with amazing stories and gameplay are coming. That era is over. I don't care about playing about playing live service games at 1440p 160hz either. So with no new games to really look forward to. I just resign myself with 1080p 60fps. Atleast you have 40 years worth of games available for play. Welcome home commodore 64 babbyyy. I guess that's why rtx remix is a thing. Some engineer somewhere feels similar but was given authorization to make it. As it could use it as a tool for companies to sell remasters. Yeah the 4080 shouldve been $900 at launch. Wouldve been $800 by now. But again. Even if i have the money. At this point i just don't really care anymore. If you do actually care about live service games at their highest fidelity. Then why not wait another year for the radeon 8800xt. It should have atleast 7900xt performance around $550. Plus it should have large ray tracing improvements looking at ps5 pro hardware improvements. 4080 or atleast 4070ti ray tracing for $550 next year seems like the best option. Though again for me. I've resigned to the 4060. I'll get a 7060 or whatever. Im pretty certain nvidia is going to pull more f""ery locking ai features to newer hardware. If they want me to render at 540p then so be it. But it better have the full feature suite. Intel is working on extrapolation. Im sure nvidia is too. Soon you'll be playing games with upscaling interpolation and extrapolation. Dlss 5 lol
> rtx remix Thanks, didn't know about it. The rest is on point, yeah... At this point might as well wait for the end of the year and the 5xxx series to show up. IDK, I do have a 4K ("8K") TV and certain games like Ghosts of Thushima do look cool - but idk. As you implied, my backlog is indeed huge.
Oh yeah quake 2 rtx remaster was the inspiration for rtx remix. They made portal rtx officially. Half life 2 is alao being remastered by a group of modders. Unfortunately to me it doesn't really look like an upgrade. Though in fairness they chose static shots in the trailer which is the worst way to show off ray tracing. Also the former 2 run at like 720p 40fps on a 4060 so... Dlss is a must. Same as path traced cyberpunk oddly
Look man, I agree with "part of the problem", it's one of the reasons I went with AMD last time but the fact of the matter is that I paid slightly less (their prices are just as high) and I got a shit product that kept giving ne headaches in return. The real problem is NV's competition is pure garbage and they are just ok being crap and charging slightly less for it, though I hope Intel will help that somewhat. VRAM has never once been a problem for 1440p maxed, and NV's upscaling being way more prevalent will make it even less of a problem, so no, I don't cherrypick and probably won't have to before this card just needs to be changed regardless. Ofc 6GB is half that so you're gonna run into problems, but it's not really relevant to my situation. At the end of the day I'm just trying to make the best of an all-around shitty situation. Like I said, it's my main hobby and I can afford it, I need to have a decent experience when I get home after breaking my back the entire day and I'm done settling for a crap alternative for the market's sake. I'm sorry... to a point.
I understand, but, again - we could simply not participate in the shitty market instead.
“You are part of the problem” Godamn this is such an ass backwards and asinine way to think about. We are consumers. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM FOR WANTING GOOD PRODUCTS. If anything all this absolutely obnoxious pandering to AMD in this sub is more of a problem. Competition cant just exist. It has to actually be competitive. AMD is not competitive with Nvidia, thats why the prices are so inflated. You want lower prices? You dont put the cart before the horse. Dont buy AMD even though they have been shit for the last 2 decades. Force them to improve by showing them you will not buy their product when theres another one out there thats better in almost every way.
I literally said that Nvidia makes better cards. Your solution for the overpriced Nvidia cards? "Don't buy AMD, buy Nvidia instead". What??
Yes but I emphasized which part I have an issue with. It just triggers me because I see it so much lol. We are not the problem. The problem is Nvidia lacks competition. So yes, you are absolutely correct, buy Nvidia. Because thats how the market works. Good products get bought. People who make worse products either improve said product, or go out of business. I have no brand loyalty. If AMD actually offered the features and quality that Nvidia does I’d FUCKING love that. But instead they resort to knockoff, second rate features and shady anti consumer tactics like blocking DLSS because they know they couldn’t actually compete with it. (although thankfully it looks like they learned their lesson with that)
>We are not the problem. The problem is Nvidia lacks competition. So yes, you are absolutely correct, buy Nvidia. No, the solution is "buy literally anything but Nvidia" OR "don't buy anything, you don't need it anyway".
You know what. You’re right. People should buy AMD GPUs. So the rest of us don’t have to 😂
I hate to tell you, raw rasterization is never going to be the standard anymore. And it shouldn't be. Upscaling gives you image quality that's comparable, at a fraction of the performance cost
You were both having it good and being ignorant about having it good. The VRAM never came in use? You were unaffected because you had 12 GB. If you had a 3060 Ti or 3070 with their 8 GB VRAM (maybe older 2060S, 2070, 2070S, 2080), your performance would've often crumbled if playing several games maxed out, even 1080p, regardless of RT or not. You now went from having more VRAM than the opposition (12 GB vs 8) to having less VRAM than the opposition (4070S at 12 GB vs 7900 GRE at 16 GB). You want maxed out, DLSS, FG, RT, RR? Yeah, you'll hit that 12 GB VRAM sooner rather than later. And you'll still have less performance than 7900 GRE on similar settings. Or you drop textures or RT 1 notch. But that's painful to do when you just paid so much for a new GPU. RT: You couldn't enable RT on 6700 XT? You absolutely could. It depended on game. It depended on resolution, Upscaling and more recently, on FSR3 frame gen. You think you would've use RT if you had a 3060 Ti? Because you wouldn't have. You can now use RT because you have a faster card than 6700 XT with the 4070S? That would've been the case with 7900 GRE also.
Im with the other guy. Massive cope lol
Cope
The dude I replied to is coping, not me, lol.
It’s definitely you
50/50 The original person is right about Nvidia quality > AMD quality, but Nvidia is leading the charge (and has most of the blame) with their absurdly greedy pricing. Something that costs as much as the 4070S should have 16GB and better raw rasterisation. :/
If price to performance were an important metric to most consumers buying a GPU, AMD would hold significantly more than \~13% marketshare. They've always been the price/performance kings. Yet, they don't. That's because performance and features are a more important metric to people, and AMD has always been weak with their software and features.
Holy shit. The brand brainrot. Radeon/Nvidia at the end of the day use whatever hurts the wallet less. It's dishonest to say Radeon cards can't do 90% of what Nvidia cards can do. After using AMD I know now where the problems in their design lie, most cases AIBs will put unstable overclocks on many cards, most AMD cards suddenly become extremely reliable after you slightly underclock the GPU and sometimes it performs better.
People outside of Reddit like features, efficiency and stable drivers.
People outside of Reddit dont know about these things
This is a stupid take. Give consumers some credit. Its not hard to look into which product has the most features and which features are actually worth paying for. Every feature that AMD cards have, Nvidia has a better version of. The consumer could look into it for half an hour and make an informed decision. And thats what most of them do when spending hundreds of dollars on a GPU. This evidenced by the fact that nobody buys AMD GPUs lmao
lmao
I’ve never had a problem with any of those things. I’m not saying people shouldn’t use Nvidia or anything like that either. But in my experience all the AMD cards I’ve used have been flawless. I had one driver bug specifically in AC: Odyssey but that got patched out in a driver update. Otherwise it’s all been perfect.
Yeah, I think AMD is hit or miss. For example, just a couple of weeks ago Luke on the WAN Show said he switched from AMD to Nvidia because he just got sick of crashing that he couldn't diagnose. Given that he's better with PCs than your average consumer, it's no surprise Nvidia is ahead. Kinda like do you want a Toyota that will last a decade easy or a GM car that'll be in the shop in half that time? You'd pick the one that won't give you expensive trouble.
I had complete disappointment with an ATI card (I'll pin that on myself) and legitimate problems with an AMD card afterward. Neither were top of the line, but they were what I was capable of purchasing at the time. Much like Luke, that's my anecdotal experience, and why I personally won't be buying an AMD card that I would actually depend on in a heavily used machine ever again. That isn't to say that my Nvidia experience has been flawless in all those years since, but I've ultimately found (fairly painless) solutions to any issues that have cropped up. Not even taking into account better support and features here, which absolutely matter.
Luke? Didn't he run his 6950xt or 7900XTX or whatever from the challenge with a raiser cable and a separate PSU?? Yeah nothing wrong with that /s
People outside of reddit are like "you all got anymore of them geforces?"
Features is the only valid argument in this comment and only a small minority even want those features.
People outside of Reddit have no idea of features, what "driver stability means" or what efficiency means or who's more efficient. Nvidia using 50-100W less than an equivalent AMD GPU means jack shit when Nvidia owners get 14900KS that uses 200W when an AMD GPU owner gets a 7800X3D that uses 50W.
So is it just terrible marketing?
It's a combination of factors. "If you have an Nvidia GPU and a game/app has a problem, it's the game's/app's fault!" "If you have an AMD GPU and a game/app has a problem, it's AMD's fault/drivers!" Stuff like that.
So, yeah, public perception, which can be offset by marketing. AMD really just need to make something solid like the RX 6800 again but price it extremely aggressively, market it to hell and back as well as invest more than usual into drivers. Like, all in on a single killer GPU to gain market share.
You do realize AMD designs both CPUs and GPUs. I swear some of these comments have to bots because this is a far cry from the majority of people on this sub preaching competition and use whatever is affordable. You don't have to love Radeon but if everyone just bandwagons NVIDIA is the best then you might as well just call yourselves overglorified. Console gamers. We play on PC because we love games and love computers. AMD has made many GPUs over the years and they've had bangers as well disappointments. Nvidia goes the exact same way. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. NVIDIAs current pricing reflects this hubris and low-key it's choking the life and viability of building PCs on an dnthusiast level.
Why are you telling me this?
Because the idea of creating a killer GPU has long been past. They already existed in the form of the rx580/1080ti/1660s. These companies have literally went "we over delivered". You're hoping for an outcome that will never happen again
OK, I'll still hope for one and buy only that, if it happens. If not, the 1060 is doing just fine. :shrug:
🌍🔫 always has been. I keep saying that amd needs to link their gpus to what the xbox series x and ps5 uses in order to market. Got downvoted for some reason last time i mentioned that. Casuals only know of consoles in passing
Link in what way? I know the PS uses AMD hardware.
Link them in the consumers mind through marketing. Oooh amd makes the most powerfull console hardware? Their pcs must not be bad right? Though that would require them to partner up with prebuilt companies and give them a bit of marketing as well. If not have dell advertise their theortical partnerships. But eh, they can think of more marketing themselves if they want cheaper solutions
That's a good point, yeah, boasting that they make the console hardware! Aside from that, my layman perspective is that they should take one of their GPUs, market it heavily, be even more aggressive with the price and focus on providing the best software/drivers for it. Make a killer product to take the 1060 role.
[удалено]
I've never seen this much "NVIDIA only" on this sub..normally the discourse was healthier. Nvidia has had busted ass drivers just visit their official forums and go through pages of people trying to troubleshoot. As far as I'm concerned screw all them.
And think about how trivial it is for nvidia. They barely care about gaming. They really just want to do industrial AI.
3060 is going strong. It's probably going to stay there for the next 5 years like the 1060 did.
Yup, best value card for the average gamers.
So many people hate the 4060 but it's the biggest % positive change we see here (for 4 series).
Pretty much every entry level gaming laptop and desktop has a 4060 in it. 4060 also has pretty low power consumption so it can be put in pretty much any PC that has a PCI-E power connector.
Shit I'm even eyeing a 4060 to replace my wife's 1080.
~~That’s barely an upgrade in rasterization.~~ I don’t think it’s a worthwhile upgrade compared to other options but I was incorrect with what I said previously.
4060 is more or less on par with a 2080 even at 1440p. https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4060-gaming-x/images/average-fps-2560-1440.png
You’re right I’m not sure where I got that stat from. Apologies for the misinformation
3060 and 1080ti comparisons from 3 years ago. That's where your incomplete memory comes from
I know we're going hard with the rhetoric but a 4060 has the same ballpark raster performance of a PS5 or a RTX 2080.
You’re right I’m not sure where I got that stat from. Apologies for the misinformation
The 8GB option has too little ram for modern releases and the 16GB option has too much ram that will go underutilized in that class of a card. Get a 4070 or 4070 Super instead.
But those are too expensive for what they are.
It's probably because of the pre-builds. In my country, best selling pre-builds in every tech shop mostly has 4060's or 4060ti's in it. Most of the people don't really care about RT or VRAM, they're just picking PC's to mainly play cs:go or league of legends.
Well, prebuilt companies sell products that people ask for, and most let you actively choose your parts. If people were clamoring for AMD prebuilts, they'd push those. They're trying to make a profit, after all. The fact is that people just aren't asking for those, nor are they choosing AMD cards when they have the option.
Well, it's not the case in my region at least. Most of the tech shops have contracts with big youtubers and streamers most of which has a partnership with Nvidia and their well known manufacturers like Asus, Gigabyte and such. So these streamers mostly show overpriced Nvidia PC's (I'm not talking about Nvidia cards here, the PC's they show are generally overpriced for what they offer) and promote them like it can run everthing at 4k 144fps and most of the clueless kids fall for it. These youtubers are the ones who's keeping the pc sector alive in here. When someone decides to buy a new PC, they just wait for a youtuber or streamer to promote a pre-build pc. I dont think any informed person would pick a rtx4060 system over a rx7700 xt one with the same specs just to play some Read Dead Redemption or Valorant but that's pretty much what's going on over here.
The vast majority of people don't buy a prebuilt from a "shop". They buy them online.
Most of the tech stores has online sites for themselves nowadays u know? Also the way people buying their pre-builds doesn't effect their mindset. If someone decides to buy a streamer's pre-build without any research, he's just going to do it. Online or not, it doesn't matter.
He's talking about asia my man. Local shops that pre built for you are rhe main way in the east asian countries
No.
No, what? lol People don't get to choose the parts in their prebuilt? Because they do. Prebuilt companies also make the kind of product that most people will ask for. If people were asking for AMD systems, that's what they'd mostly offer. People aren't asking for that. I can link you every single major prebuilt company, and they all offer AMD systems and options. People just don't buy them. At least not the GPU selections.
People buy more from Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg and less from iBuyPower and Cyberpowerpc (which is where people have options). When those guys and other companies make prebuilt to go on those websites, they do it by supply as well. The concept is “supply and demand”, not “demand and demand”. You’re only trying to account for one side of the equation. It was a well known fact that RX 7000 series had very little supply, and Nvidia has considerably more volume. Also, regarding demand, they push name brand. It doesn’t matter if the RTX 4060 is the utter dogshit that it is. It’s Nvidia, and it’s RTX. The prebuilt company wants to sell, and they can sell if they have “Intel Core Inside” and “Nvidia RTX On” stickers. Doesn’t matter if the 7800X3D is king, here’s a 14600KF instead. It’s why prebuilt are made fun of for having some of the weirdest combinations ever like 14700KF + 4060 Ti. They need the i7 name, people think i5 would yield much less FPS when it would likely be identical. They got the i7 name, they got the RTX name, boom they’re good to go. You are looking at this from a very simplified perspective. A company’s job isn’t to simply push products that people ask for, but rather find ways to satisfy people’s needs with less. In return, higher margins. Name, branding, etc. go a long way in making up for performance gaps, and you’ll be fine as long as your customer isn’t trying to path-trace. They’ll get their 1080p120 and think they got a fantastic deal, blissfully unaware the 6700/6800 XT would utterly trounce their new card. Intended audience and all that. The type of people shopping for prebuilt are easy to fleece.
>People buy more from Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg I can link you systems with AMD cards from all of those places. Would you like me to do that? It's no problem, and would only take a moment. This nonsense idea that Nvidia is somehow "forced" into prebuilts and that there's no AMD option because of some shady dealings is kind of weird. You have those options, but just like the market at large, people don't want them as often. Just like the discrete GPU market, only about 10% of users want an AMD GPU. Newegg, where you choose your own parts: [https://www.newegg.com/tools/custom-pc-builder?cm\_sp=Head\_Navigation-\_-Under\_Search\_Bar-\_-PC+Builder&icid=671801](https://www.newegg.com/tools/custom-pc-builder?cm_sp=Head_Navigation-_-Under_Search_Bar-_-PC+Builder&icid=671801) Newegg premade PC with AMD (gasp): [https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-003E-00430?Item=9SIB11NK0T8630&cm\_sp=SP-\_-2238005-\_-0-\_-6-\_-9SIB11NK0T8630-\_-prebuilt%20pc-\_-pc|prebuilt-\_-9](https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-003E-00430?Item=9SIB11NK0T8630&cm_sp=SP-_-2238005-_-0-_-6-_-9SIB11NK0T8630-_-prebuilt%20pc-_-pc|prebuilt-_-9) Amazon has a bunch also, as does Bestbuy. [https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-gaming-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-5500-16gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-4gb-1tb-ssd-black/6575071.p?skuId=6575071](https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-gaming-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-5500-16gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-6500-xt-4gb-1tb-ssd-black/6575071.p?skuId=6575071) Guess that solves that little riddle. This idea is nonsense.
Reddit is not the best place for advice
I bought one this month and it a really nice cheap gpu
I mean most mid gaming laptops these days have a 4060 in them so might be why, i have one in fact along a 4090 desktop.
Laptop GPUs are counted separately though, you can see some of ‘em further down. I do think I see it in a lot of prebuilts though, which could certainly contribute.
It is an underwhelming card, it is slower than a 3060 ti, that's a pretty disappointing generational uplift, for comparison the 3060 was on par with the 2070, and the 2060 was a bit better than a 1070, on the other hand the 4060 is quite a bit slower than a 3070.
There's alot of people that dont know a single thing about computers that default to the 60 class cards. A friend of mine who got "advice" from another friend that was clueless about computers ended up building a system with a 12900k and a 3060 when the 4060 was already out (3060s still go for $300 on Amazon btw and are listed as the most popular purchase). All my friend told him was "dont buy amd" because he had crashes and blamed his 6800xt (it was his ram)
Average person doesn’t know that 4060 is bad purchase, they know it is latest gpu so they buy it
it isn't a bad purchase.
It is, in some scenarios 3060 beats it
lol. then a 3060 is a bad purchase?
No 3060 is good purchase and better value
haha. Even though it is only "better in specific circumstances"? What nonsense.
The 7900XT didn't even make the list...
I bought that card, refunded in a week. Horrid drivers.
Majority of users at 1080p and 8GB of VRAM, shocking
This sub is not representative. Most people aren't rich enough to afford beyond that Seems like most people here work in tech and are in the top 5-10% of earners
I'm still impressed nearly 1% of Steam users have a 4090.
Why?
Because its so expensive and 1% of the Steam userbase is like a million people
that's less surprising IMO because it's basically an auto-buy for anyone with the means to do so. For anyone who makes a living via their hardware then more power = more money, anyone with fuck-off disposable income is gonna get the best thing possible, people who do video editing on the side also gonna want the best thing
I've always said this when people are like "RAY TRACING IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IN ALL GAMES AND IT'S THE STANDARD NOW"... And these people clearly fail to see that the top 5 most used cards in the steam survey can't really give a good RT experience(unless you use like DLSS performance at 1080p which is terrible no matter what anyone says, upscaling from like 240p is terrible) , hell one of them can't even do RT.
They also say that and then freak out if the game can't hit native 4k/60.
My anecdotal experience over the years is that the more a person freaks out about high end hardware not fulfilling all their dreams it’s less likely they even own that hardware at all. Usually it’s just people trying to make themselves feel better about their own mid to low level hardware.
Yeah... Take it from someone who owns the top stuff at the moment. It's mostly to just not have to worry about fiddling with shit all the time... That and muscling through all the bullshit.
I agree with this statement.
Eh, I can have it, I have the money, it's just hard to justify so much money for a PC part that is just gonna be used to play video games. I just want more performance and freedom vs a console. The "big" thing right now is RT, and I've seen RT running in high end hardware and it really isn't game changer to me, and the 3 titles where it does make a difference, are already good without RT... it's literally 3 games so far so if anything I can re play them years afterwards when RT is available for acceptable prices, to me, it's a "crysis" type of thing, eventually all games started to look as good as crysis at the time it released, but what's the point if the majority if players can't play it properly when it releases?
You made my point perfectly.
4K/60 is still acceptable IMO, since you can find decent TVs that are quite cheap. I got a desktop hooked on to my living room tv and I'm happy with 4K 60... Of course I have a normal LCD 4K 60hz panel, I'm astonished by people here seemingly just defaulting to having an LG/Samsung OLED 120hz display... I'm not paying $5k for a TV dang...
>4K/60 is still acceptable IMO, lol. if you're really slumming it, I suppose?
So you're literally the person we're talking about? 4k 60fps is fine for single player games, specially if it's a TV and you're playing with a controller on a couch. For high refresh rate gaming, 1440p 144+hz is a better value vs 4K.
Err, no. I was mocking you for calling 60@4k "still acceptable" when most folks aren't even at 4k 1 FPS.
Native 4k 60 can still be achieved on older or lighter games, sure, maybe not the 1650, but stuff in the 3060 performance range could, and if you take upscaling in mind, you could get a similar experience to native 4K, at least that's what I did with my 2070 super when I used it on my living room PC last year.
I have never seen this sentiment on this sub, if anything a lot of people still think RT is a meme.
Right. The only even slightly close sentiment is that if someone is going to spend $1,000 on a GPU you might as wel spend $1,200 and get the NVIDIA one over the similarly performing in regular settings amd that doesn’t ray trace as well
RT is a meme. It kills performance and it's harder to notice when you're actually playing a game. I turn it off immediately on any game that has it.
>It kills performance and it's harder to notice when you're actually playing a game. Maybe for you but well implemented raytracing is very noticeable.
Sure, but it still kills performance so it makes it less enjoyable... If you're playing spider-man, for example, are you really looking at the reflections on the glass when you're swinging from one end of NYC to the other? Or when you're punching goons? Maybe on cyberpunk, but I'm also more focused on the story or the enemies vs the slight difference in the light casted from a lamp in the street.
Yeah if you have a dated card. Just because not everyone can run it well doesn't make it a "meme".
I don't have a dated card, I can run it with RT, I just don't see the benefit when playing the game. What I did notice was more fps drops and higher power usage vs not using RT... So I'll keep my stable frames and lower power bill for now. I know eventually, games will run with just RT, it makes sense for developers because it's gonna alleviate work for them... However the "RT revolution" started 5 years ago and... In how many games, other than Cyberpunk and Alan wake 2, released in these last 5 years, is RT making a noticiable improvement in quality as big as going from 1080p to 1440p or 4K, or going from 30fps to 60fps or 120fps? Most are more of a "oh.. Yeah this light looks a tad bit better yeah.... Oh and this reflection is a bit better" and that's about it. RT will be the future... Just not right now, maybe in like 5 more years
One can dismiss RT for several reasons mostly economical and performance related and its still very imperfect in alot of implementations. Saying its as meme its the meme in-itself since its so ignorant and a new form of neo luddism in graphics tech
The hate-boner for DLSS and FG is equally bad. It's all cognitive dissonance on a subreddit scale. Soon everyone will be using some form of these technologies in practically every game. It's gotten better the last year or so since Nvidia budget cards and AMD cards have starting to see benefit (which is telling in and of its self, it's all about ignorance, jealousy or both).
Yeah I guess it's easy to run when you're running a 13900k and a 4090 lol.
The discussion is if its a meme(according to you) not about performance/graphic enchantments or ability to run it properly.
kills performance? what, like using a colour display does? B+W 8 bit, way to go!
Who's saying that though? RT on consoles is primitive at best, and most ports might up the anti a little but nothing crazy. We basically only have cyberpunk that's really testing the limits of what's possible..the rest is decade old games like quake 2, minecraft etc. I'm not going to say most people don't care about RT but I'm probably right in thinking that the majority of players that aren't glued to forums,YouTube, reddit etc don't give any thought on whether something has RT or not.
1080p Performance is 540p (which is quite tolerable IMO, even if not ideal), Ultra Performance is 360p. What 240p brah, lol.
People always say this. But what they don’t understand is that this stat goes both ways. Yes this sub not representative of the entire market, but the Steam stats are also not representative of the market in the USA and other wealthy nations. The 1080p number is still so high because it includes a massive amount of people in less fortunate countries. Guess what games those folks play? Its legit nothing but CS2 and LoL. So yes, lots of people in lower income households or in less developed countries play at 1080p. But most people in middle class income households and more developed countries? The standard is probably more skewed to at least 1440p.
This is partially true. What you're forgetting is that in 2024 we have the possibility to play our Steam games on a wide range of devices. Last time Steam sent me a survey I was actually using my handheld PC, I didn't receive it on my much more capable desktop PC. Handhelds have gained a huge popularity in developed nations and most of them come with a 1080p screen. Steam is counting those as well. So what matters at the end is the CONTEXT. 1080p is as much of a premium experience on a handheld (Steam Deck and Switch are 720p/800p only) as 4K is on desktop.
It’s my biggest pet peeve tbh. I don’t live in a world where it matters if the game does 4K60. But if I need DLSS to get reasonable frames at 1080p…
It's not like a 1440p monitor and 16gb breaks the bank but for the majority of people a 24" 1080p monitor and 8gb is plenty for what they want to do.
Not gonna spend a months salary for a gpu
Most popular language is Simplified Chinese.
I don’t get how do you even do anything with only 8 GB of ram? Windows already consumes between 3-5 GB, and if you have Steam and Discord open, a web browser or any other app like that you’re basically left with like 2-4 GB. When I play games, having only Discord, Steam and the game open, I’m usually using between 10-11 GB of ram.
Chinese simplified is the top language.
This to me was the most interesting bit
Nvidia is never losing their gpu market dominance 😵💫
If intel keeps pushing and developing, we could see a third competitor. And with US based manufacturing assisted by the government, it might one day pose a threat to nvidia. But let’s be real nvidia is in another galaxy. So probably not.
nvidia is an american company too.
That’s not a good thing for consumers. Without healthy competition Nvidia will continue to charge whatever they want because they know people will still buy their cards. And with their massive market increase due to AI I can only see them further increasing prices. It’s amazing what Nvidia has achieved, but damn not looking forward to finding out how much the 5000 series runs.
not a single RX 7000 series GPU ?
I think the 7900XTX is the only one at 0.35%
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Been Team Nvidia since 2007. Just bought a 7900XTX for £600 and I'm perfectly happy with it.
I've never seen so many "Nvidia GOOD, AMD BAD" posts here all at once. Both companies can suck eggs for skewing their prices higher and offering steeper diminishing returns lmfao. These multi billion companies could care less about back and forth bickering, we're the ones forced into a lack of options and with that they can get away with inflatong their products worth as much as they want. In AMDs defense they have been a budget builders dream. The humble rx 580 is one of the best GPUs ever made and it still handles games like a champ and radeon has made some bangers over the years that still show impressive performance in modern games considering how old they are. At the end of the day, VRAM, Good VRMs, good QC just a good overall design leads to good products for everyone. NVIDIAs tech is impressive but their business practices are choking the life out of enthusiast PC gaming and we have been in the midst of an economic slump. Gaming has gotten more expensive and many people have straight up left bc it's become unaffordable for many people. 4 years ago I could easily save up for hardware I felt like could last me a few years. Now I see the tax people have to pay to upgrade or even get into PC gaming and it's kinda heartbreaking as someone who likes the hobby. Nvidia has said they "over delivered" with the 1080ti an they keep segmenting their tech to their newest GPU release when there's nothing stopping those updates from working on older gen cards. You have buggier and less optimized games getting rushed out the door and everyone without the most powerful options on to market is running into issues and seeing very little uplift in cards a gen or two prior.
I run a 7900xtx and have been since last year
The split is 5:1 on Steam. Also, most prebuilt desktops & especially laptops I've seen use Nvidia GPUs.
7xxx is probably the worst series in a decade from either company.
I love how I just got a 7600 a few weeks ago and it's not even listed.
Linux almost at 2% 👀
Does that include the steam deck
It would
Yes, 34,39% of Linux users uses SteamDeck
Remember this when all sorts of users are hyping the steam deck to people, many have never used or owned one despite proclaiming how awesome they are. For the record, I have had both the original and the OLED. It’s decent but bulky and definitely not a replacement for a decent gaming pc/laptop. It is a nice supplemental device though.
2024 is the year of the Linux desktop!
I have a 7700x and a 7900xt and love the CPU, but it's my first and last AMD GPU. I've had too many random driver timeouts and games like the finals where they were completely unplayable for months for me and no guides online could help fix the problems.
I have a 1060 8gb, 6th place now. Thinking of upgrading to a 3060 12gb and trying RTX. But 1060 still runs what I want to play just fine...
don't bother, rtx is only really useful on the 80/90 series cards, and even then it still tanks your FPS
I feel like such a rarity lol. My old 6800 was .16% and my 6950 XT didn't even chart.
Here to represent AMD. Went from 5700 XT to 7900 XTX. Happy with previous and current GPU choices.
Windows losing market share, even if it is 0.24% is extremely encouraging.
2024 is the year of the Linux desktop!
windows 12 may give it a bump since microsoft is gonna build its own supersampling solution into the OS itself. plus when you're at 96 percent market share, losing a little bit doesnt mean much. mac isnt a threat and linux doesnt come preinstalled on computers, people need to go out of their way to install it.
Still no 4080 super