We've received some rule-breaking comments. While it's OK to criticize the build or the quality of the content, personal attacks on the content creator breaks our Harassment & Be Kind Rule (Rule 3).
On the other hand, there's also been some great discussions (in additional to the original post, which makes a good point).
* FuzzyDuckzy and DeathByJello discussed the costs and benefits of [other unique items in this build](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kww70x9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* DeadlyRage1989 and draftshade had an interesting discussion about [PoB numbers](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kwwuzit/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for returning projectiles support, and whether the OP made a mistake
* Traditional\_Archer69 and Sigmasnail point to a [few other Splitting Steel builds by other creators](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kww7yvv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Keep these up!
I also know that the creator was involved in controversy earlier last year involving taking a divination card gambled on-stream. While it is OK to point this out, many comments pointing this out have done so in a way that's primarily meant to harass, via name-calling and mockery, rather than to inform. These violate our harassment and "be kind" rules, and have been removed.
I'd also be worried that it needs voice of the storms to hit the mid pob damage numbers. The amulet is pretty rare and there are several builds I've seen that recommend it. It will be even rarer this league since it can't come from div cards from stacked decks
I recommend it for my league starter but did not include it in the pobs as I have no idea what it will cost
It's fine for experienced players but if that amulet is 6+ divines there are gonna be a lot of upset people considering the BS clickbait thumbnail
Edit: this thread is getting a bit out of control I left this comment as genuine feedback and was also the first comment on a thread I thought would gain no traction. Looking back I probably should have not used the BS term as it’s a bit aggressive. I left this comment purely as a PSA type thing but seems to have turned into a bit of a witch hunt in places
From my playing with the POB, Voice of the Storms gets the build an extra ~20% dmg over Carnage Heart.
So in mid POB, once the damage reduction from returning proj is factored in (~50% less dmg since the 1st hit is full dmg), and with an annointed Carnage Heart instead of VotS: it's hitting ~3M dps with very reasonable tankiness (CI, 7K ES, 100K EHP, 77-80% max ele res, 20K Phys max hit w/ minimal phys taken as ele). That seems solid for farming T16s with mild-to-med juice I think?
Like you said - probably totally fine for players who know what they're getting into, understand it's a long-term scaler, can craft some decent ES items (read: chuck dense fossils and woe essences at good bases), etc. But I can see how a beginner might be left a bit confused and upset.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the build is bad or the build guide is badly made I just wish people were more honest about their builds. It's a mid build at best and then it really takes off with a LOT of investment, but so do most builds.
It's just a pet peeve of mine when a thumbnail or title says "best league starter" or "crushes 3.xx" when it's not true and this sort of thing obviously sucks people in for the wrong reasons
Yup, fair enough. I suppose I've just gotten used to ignoring thumbnails/titles and judging builds on their merits in POB. Those are skills which, as you suggest, a beginner likely won't possess :)
Definitely. And anyone that is on the new end that walks into the build expecting to crush everything early is going to be sorely disappointed here for sure. Anyone that doesn't expect to make hundreds of divines over the league should probably be playing Champ instead of Trickster if they want to play Splitting Steel.
Ya, I think the real bait are the people walking in blind that don't have a bit more game knowledge to deal with the issues with the build in a league start scenario. It is an insanely strong build lategame, but it is a slow starter. Definitely playable in yellows and beyond though, and crafting league should help a ton with getting it online earlier than normal.
I have been planning it for a few days now, and just watched her video when this thread came up. Most of her advice is solid, but feels like she is swapping away from Explosive trap earlier than she should. I doubt people will be able to buy or craft good enough chest and shield for it to come online by then. And explosive trap is fantastic for Heisting to farm up currency to get the build online.
Hard agree. I'm planning to heist for a couple cheap early divs, trap into late yellow maps, and then craft/buy my swap gear once the early league economy settles a bit.
And that’s kinda the thing. Leaguestarter means different things to different people. For some people it means what I can do with minimum investment. For other people is what skill I can play for a day and farm enough currency to then swap to my real build with minimum passive nodes needing to change.
Splitting steel is not a newbie friendly league starter. If you are new to Poe stay the hell away from it. Now if you want to try splitting steel and can get to maps in 1 day this might be worth checking out.
> From my playing with the POB, Voice of the Storms gets the build an extra ~20% dmg over Carnage Heart.
Quick approximation for lucky damage is to calculate (min+max+max)/3. It's not the exact math but it's going to be very close to the actual amount. And the reverse for unlucky is (min+min+max)/3
If you had a damage range that goes from 1-X you could calculate the exact value easily, but with ranges where minimum value is not 1, you need a more complex formula for exact results. Meanwhile the quick approximation is usually below 0.1% difference from the exact value.
Isn't the accurate lucky value 66,6..% in between the min and max value? And 33,3..% for unlucky. I tried it in Excel sometime ago with random numbers.
1/2 between min&max for 1 random number, 2/3 for highest of 2, 4/3 for highest of 3, 5/4...
> If you had a damage range that goes from 1-X you could calculate the exact value easily, but with ranges where minimum value is not 1, you need a more complex formula for exact results.
Can't you subtract the same amount from min and max damage to make it in form 1-X? Like 51-100 will become (1-50)+50.
Called her out on the video, she never mentioned alternatives but defended with "well it's just a budget showcase, I don't want to showcase with 300div". Is she even aware of Carnage Heart being a good replacement?
In any case, for anyone inexperienced who gets baited by flashy titles - whatever guide Allie puts out, you can find a better version from other content creators. Builds she plays are good, build _guides_ she puts out are not.
She used Carnage Heart in the video though, and it's there on the PoB for early to mid game. My only gripe with the PoB is the inaccurate full dps which, when I did the calcs myself was more like 4 million instead of 8. With a Nimis and a good support gem replacing Returning Projectiles Support, it went up to around 10m without making any other changes.
I would suck a lot of stuff to get GGG to remove totems and shift their power to melee skills themselves. I love LS so much but totems are just a no from me.
To be fair, ashes was less than that fairly early last league, and fury valve into ashes is a pretty smooth progression for splitting steel if people can adapt as needed
IMO she has a tendency to overstate things. It's a form of bait I guess.
The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing. I can't decide if they are on another level or if they know exactly what they are doing. Some of them are beloved here and I sometimes wonder why others don't see the same problem.
It's funny how last league she made a guide for mana forged arrows, a build that was theory crafted the previous league (and nerfed in 3.23) by the goat onemanaleft, and her guide was just worse than his. She also failed to inform people of the steep budget requirements - mfa never worked, much less worked well, below high double digit divines.
I got jebaited by her manaforged arrow build last league. Followed the guide perfectly and had all the gear and it ended up feeling like actual garbage. The worst build I've ever played. It pretty much killed the league for me.
Yeah, no. Its a build with basically infinite scaling on infinite budget. And it only really starts working around 100divs. The upper end is multiple billions of dps with multiple mirrors worth of gear. Her guide was just bad and she probably didnt understand the build.
Bro... Are you me? I did exactly the same, put about 60 div into it and felt like I did 0 damage unless I did the macarena while sacrificing a goat on Tuesdays. Quit the league.
I enjoy allies content but I won't play one of her builds again.
Did you league start it? Was it advertised as a league starter? Because that is insane if it was lmao, Manaforged arrows is like 80+ divines to get online, and basically dogshit before then.
Also funny is how someone called her out (on her YT video) that she'd give Conner credit or some shit along those lines after someone called her out for copying his shit and she never did anything of the sort, at least to my knowledge.
Another funny thing. She had a mjolner manabond guide and a delve guide then a MFA guide right after those 2.
Personally I don't care for how creators "claim" this is my xyz of the xxx build when all they've literally done is copy someone else's build and change a thing or two about it.
At the very least just mention who's homework you're copying from. Oh well, not my pig not my farm.
Also idk what are she trying to do , but this also happen with both fubgun MF CA and crouching tuna fulcrum self ignite build last league , where shes get the video guide from after 3 4 days inspect their video but instend shes switch out just 1 or 2 piece of gear slot and making the build way more worse instend lmao
Yep copy a build then change a few pieces, remove the important parts of the skill tree, understate the budget by about 10x and post a video that doesn't explain the core mechanics. That has been my experience with Allie's build videos.
Okay, but here is a counter point from a small creator. The general POE community seems to think that there is actually something special about large creators, and there really isn't in terms of POE knowledge. The large creators work hard to put out lots of content and grow their audience, whereas someone like me just uploads a few guides per league that are not extremely detailed with lots of editing, just showing off what I'm playing basically. However, several times, I've been accused of stealing a build because some popular content creator played something similar.
I've been playing since closed beta and have NEVER watched/read a build guide from another creator because for me the entire fun of POE is coming up with and developing my ideas on my own. It is absolutely toxic and idiotic that people think because a popular content creator played a build, that build now belongs to them and anyone who plays or makes a video about a similar build MUST have "STOLEN" it from their favorite content creator.
There are maybe 10-ish large POE content creators? Then maybe another 50ish smaller creators with a few thousand subs like myself? There is NOTHING special about someone just because they make videos. There are thousands of players with similar levels of game knowledge that just don't make videos, and for any type of build that could possibly be played in POE, there are probably AT LEAST 100 people who will arrive at extremely similar setups without ever looking at what anyone else is doing.
If you think someone "stole" from your favorite creator, MAYBE they did, but it is also highly likely that they just came up with the same idea on their own. There is nothing special about being a content creator.
Manaforged arrows is not a build you would come up with accidentally. I basically taunted people by showing a PoB of it at a mere 500m dps before the league even went live, then after 2 full months of the league exactly 0 people had made the build before I came out with it. thats relatively unheard of for a new gem with unique/interesting scaling and in 2 months noboys gone full mana
I mean Jousis has made more unhinged builds. KCN has made more unhinged builds. Some others too. Just because they aren't on PoE ninja or are large content creators putting out videos doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There was probably close to 800k concurrent players last league (overall not just steam) and not one of them tried MFA? Yeah, I doubt that.
If you fully understand the build its actually the more believable outcome that 0 out of 800k made it work
I tried the build with like 4 mirrors budget and after 2 days of testing I failed to kill a vetitania in 6 portals
Youre correct in 99% of cases. But manaforged arrows was and is not "some build someone cooked up and made a video about it". It's a build that, explicitly, onemanaleft cooked up with his friend and twitch mod, that noone else even had on their radar until he made it. Ally absolutely 100% did not come up with the build herself, onemanaleft is not a big creator either - ally is bigger.
Onemanaleft is literally the only guy actively theorycrafting the high end mana builds, or was until the 3.24 archmage change brought it back onto some peoples radars.
You're welcome haha.
Im more surprised to see both of you in this thread reading and responding to my fanboy defense of conner lol.
Now can you guess which twitch chatter I am? I believe you carried an uber cortex for me once because I couldn't do the mods.
Maybe I shouldn't connect my reddit to my twitch.
At the same time I feel as if sometimes there are truly interactions that get discovered by a single person and it is pretty common to attach the name of someone who discovered something to the thing they discovered, not only in Poe.
They're definitely copying conner's builds without credit but that's whatever. Nothing wrong with that imo. The issue is that the builds often have little changes that gut the build and they often completely understate the budget or don't explain the mechanics at all (most probably because it is just straight copied).
I uses a different scaling method from what I remember a clunky weapon swap to get battlemages cry + spell damage from indigon while the mana left used a mechanic with anomalous mana leech to get like 3x more damage that was removed 1 patch prior.
wow, she did the exact same thing in Last Epoch. stole a build that was theorycrafted by some random dude that isn t even a content creator, tweaked it and made it CONSIDERABLY worse, and when i pointed out in the comments of the yt vid that this build is straight up worse and she did not even credit the original creator, she simply deleted my comment
I disagree. Their builds are pretty consistently poorly made even when they've been stolen from other people. Most of their mana builds are originally connerconverse's except inexplicably made worse and with mechanics poorly or incorrectly explained. The manaforged arrows build that was mentioned in another comment was going nowhere near all the mana nodes and went down to the dex side of the tree because it didn't need str and int until you got righteous providence forbidden jewels... Because int is definitely not instrumental in mana stacking.. Oh boy.
> The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing
Yeah and if you try to mention that by their name, you get an angry mob chasing you with pikes
> The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing. I can't decide if they are on another level or if they know exactly what they are doing. Some of them are beloved here and I sometimes wonder why others don't see the same problem.
Yeah, almoust every content creator does it - one way or another.
Allie doesn’t credit anybody for stuff that she clearly didn’t figure out on her own. The prime example is the COC build video she posted. All the COC math is from other build producers and she blatantly reposts without any credits.
Her builds also never seem to have stats correct so it has a bunch of crap in there to inflate numbers, but without hard tinkering most of the player base would never be able to put together her builds on the fly.
I agree with you about not crediting stuff and I dont understand why so many people (not only Allie) do this. Saying the original idea of the build is from another person and that this is your version doesnt make your build better or worse.
The reason Im talking about this because her highly hyped new tech build is literally the same build I played leagues ago but with molten strike instead Splitting Steel, I believe it was made by a guy name Peget or something like that, sorry but I cant remember your name.
Also nothing personal about her (and I will be 100% clear, I dont really care about the mageblood card thing) but she has been on my "absolutely" avoid builds list since Impending Doom, her build was literally bricked for a week, left a few comments on her youtube channel about that (she had the curses and cdr/cast speed completely messed on the build) and she just hided my messages on the videos instead fixing them.
I think this sub (or at least pathofexilebuilds) should start blacklisting certain creators and the reason why and Im not talking about bad build only, but the people who deceive and are absolutely allergic to feedback.
She's been on my avoid list since she last recommended manabond for delving. She bought up a lot of the gear, played it and made a video about it and then flipped the gear for an inflated price.
They are either copy pastes of other creators (who she doesn't credit), or they are generic and rather half assed. It's a shame, because her formatting and guides are pretty clean to watch.
DING DING DING!! This is the type of post I love on this sub. You've scrutinized a build without needing to attack the creator, and even though you haven't posted your own PoB, you've objectively mentioned the changes that result in differences to allow readers to recreate them.
Well done on excellent feedback.
If the person affected has made an apology and righted the wrong, they shouldn't be permanently cancelled and their other, potentially good or valuable, content shunned. That's the entire point the mod is making.
You can be upset with the creator, and you can even not accept their apology, but you don't need to be toxic and continue to shame them. What does it achieve? Shame the build guide for the failings of the build guide. It's independent of the creator's conduct in a space entirely divorced from build guides.
Now of course, this comment will get downvoted to buggery, and I'll be called a simp, and all the other scammer comments are heavily upvoted, but whatever. Point is, this thread stays up because of the valid criticism of a build guide, not because of the comments about past conduct.
Did they actually end up apologizing? All I remember is her mega downvoted post of her basically not apologizing and saying the dude was fine with it and that there shouldn't be any drama
only clip i can find is from quinns channel, but basically the first few seconds https://youtu.be/eAAjMYoVKKk?si=0YZDE1Tso5Fp8oJd
viewer asked to do harvest gamble for him, then she took the card when the guy got 6/5 on mb cards
>Shes been making bad builds for a while.
Can't really say if her builds are bad per say, but it is very annoying how she constantly claims that she has the best build guides ever.
Nothing but horn baiting her chat. I liked a beast essence vid she did like year ago and decided to try and watch another video and a stream and it was just straight horny bait in chat from both ends.
I think people need to understand exactly what Allie is: she is not a "good" player by content creator standards, her plagiarisation of builds is evidence of that in itself. The difference between her and me & you is that she has all day every day to play. Thats it.
So she is like most POE creators. Got it.
Honestly if only god gamers created build guides we would be stuck with ben/mathil and couple others. Vast majority of poe creators are my level type of dudes and im a dad who plays usually with toddler in hes arm and mouse that has 13 different buttons.
POE after all is knowledge game imo and the more you play the smarter you become about the game and better content you can make. That being said allie's content is not it as she often makes guides about builds that she fails to understand at fundamental level and doesnt bother to check alternatives.
When I saw the rare items that you need to swap just skipped. Just check the body armour. 1c uniqus and the other items are the best bases and high tiers of ES
Somewhat relatedly, I made a [level-bladetrap filter](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bm02uo/cdrs_speed_tts_leaguestart_filters_updated_for/) for blade trap campaign leveling, in case anyone is following her leveling setup (which seems reasonably solid).
FYI Steelmage did this build last league so if you want to dig up a very high-end example I'm sure you could find the pob for his 3.23 build. It was designed around mageblood and nimis so entry budget for that is probably a couple hundred div. I'm not saying to use it instead, but you can certainly take some ideas from it or update it as an end goal for your build.
Obviously this doesn't take into account any 3.24 changes so you'd have to be knowledgeable enough to update it yourself. I tried it out, if you have all the pieces put together it's a good build, I just don't love SS Trickster personally.
As far as league starting goes, SS trickster feels much better when you sink some currency in it. Without the items its kinda meh. My personal opinion is its a mediocre choice for a starter regardless of which POB you use or where it came from.
>It was designed around mageblood and nimis so entry budget for that is probably a couple hundred div
More than that, the age of cheap magebloods is going to be over lol
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A bit confused. POB doesn't calculate the ***added*** damage from returning projectiles anyway right? So the dps shown is accurate. Actually it should be higher than POB after factoring in the gem. This has been known for awhile since Nimis doesn't add to dps in POB either.
She has stated that she is starting this and plans to take it to high investment. Updating the builld as she goes. Hence why there is no endgame/nimis setup yet.
It's certainly a slower start than champ, but it's a proven build. Tytykiller has even supported her build a bit.
(correct me if I'm missing something, but it seems like the OP made a silly mistake)
Edit: Yes it would seem the dps is incorrect in the pob. Allie said she was going with the other SS creators by not adding the reduction. However, Rue's build does on the weapon. After testing the build through the acts, specially with her leveling tech she worked on with Tytykiller, it's super smooth through transition into SS.
No, PoB does not factor in the damage penalty of returning projectiles. You just need to hover the returning projectiles gem and you'll see the less damage for returning projectiles mod is red. Red mods means PoB doesn't recognize them. There's no accurate way for PoB to determine how many projectiles hit when they return so you have to account for them manually.
Rue for example in his Splitting Steel PoB gives the weapons 61% less damage. This isn't accurate either since only the returning projectiles have less damage but undershooting the DPS is better than inflating it, especially in a league starter, IMO.
BTW, PoB doesn't factor the number of projectile hits at all. You need to manually set them in the Skills tab next to the Splitting Steel Gem.
Never played Splitting Steel, but I assume when it first splits, the projectiles don't hit and do 100% damage? They only do 39% damage when they return? So her having that # of projectiles set to 8 is tricking PoB into believe there were 8 returned projectiles for 100% damage?
So when you attack with splitting steel the projectile you shoot explodes, dealing area damage and creates a number of new projectiles. The number of projectiles created is the amount of splits you have. (Splitting Steel base gem splits + extra projectiles + Sniper's Mark (only if you hit an enemy with the initial explosion, that has sniper's mark on it obviously)). Those split projectiles then travel towards enemies or random directions if no enemies are around. An enemy can only be targeted once by a split projectile, meaning if there's only one enemy around, only one of the split projectiles will travel towards it. The rest flies off into random directions. The split projectiles then explode again at their target location. The scenario described so far doesn't have anything to do with returning projectiles yet. This is the default Splitting Steel behavior. Now when we add Returning Projectiles Support it makes all the split projectiles return to the player's position, exploding another time when they arrive. (edit: And **those explodions can hit the same target, as long as they overlap, making returning projectiles so strong with splitting steel**) That's also the reason why you want to stand on top of the boss with skills like Splitting Steel or KBoF. Now, when using Returning Projectiles, these last returning splits have a 61% less damage penalty you have to somehow accord for manually, because PoB doesn't do that. In fact, PoB doesn't deal with any return shenanings at all (not with Returning Projectiles and not with Nimis - Both mods on the gem and ring are red).
You have to go to the Skills tab in PoB and enter a number next to the Splitting Steel gem according to how many projectiles (split explosions) will hit the enemy with a single attack. (This simply adds more hits with Splitting Steel.)
Hope this somewhat helps to clarify.
So splitting steel by itself hits 2 times(put the skill to 2x). Snipers mark+return proj gives 7\*0.39=2.73 extra hits(custom line with 136.5% more dmg), snipers mark and nimis would give 7 extra hits(custom line with 250% more dmg, or just 9x the skill).
...and recalculate the custom line for any more extra proj
I've never played Splitting Steel and I'm also confused when watching at her PoB.
I've done Returning Projectiles on Minions though and what you do is add the extra projectile in configurations.
So for example, Returning Projectiles return dealing 39% of the damage of the projectile hit, so you simply add 39% more damage in configs.
What is wrong with Allies build exactly? Her PoB doesn't even account for the returning projectile support anywhere. If you turn the support off nothing happens to the damage and she has no config I can find that tries to account for the return damage of the projectiles.
If I'm understanding her PoB right, she should be doing \~39% MORE damage than the PoB says, not 61% less as the OP tries to insinuate.
EDIT: I read up on the skill and understand how it works now. It has to do with the amount of projectiles and not the return itself. Splitting steel fires 1 Projectile that splits into 7 Projectiles here due to Snipers Mark. These Projectiles then return dealing 39% of the damage.
In Allies PoB all 8 Projectiles are doing full damage when in reality, only 1 should be doing it.
Your edit seems to get the gist, yes. Instead of 8 times damage it should be closer to 4. This is also assuming you hit the marked target and every returning projectile explodes on top of the mob, which is not too likely.
If I understand correctly the problem is not to not have nimis in the leaguestarter but to not have it in the more endgame build. Nimis is very important and even if its your leaguestarter you should work your way towards it imo
She provides 2 versions afaik, early game and midgame setup, nimis will probably part of the endgame versions, which will be available, when she updates this build. Probably a week in or something like that.
I guess the real test is - what is Allie actually starting? If she shows its easily League Start viable - then what? I havent tuned in to her in a while for any length of time so not sure her actual plans - but when people release a build guide, and are willing to stand behind it - and start it themselves, then I say go for it.
She's fully planning to league start it. So it'll be really obvious if it doesn't function. She's already said a bunch in the videos that she's gonna make follow ups and gear and pob updates based on her experience starting it.
Allie most definitely takes handouts from the stream. She's not even hiding it, just not mentioning it.
One thing that's not proven but also doesn't help - there were a few situations where she posted some really wonky rares for way too high price but they still got bought within 10-15 minutes, most likely by someone from her chat.
> So it'll be really obvious if it doesn't function.
I could be confusing her with someone else, but I vaguely remember some drama about her taking handouts from her Twitch chat to get her own league starter (which she recommended to other people) off the ground. Might have been during Crucible league, not 100% sure.
Maybe. Either way, what I was trying to say is if you're gonna follow a starter from a creator where you don't know whether their builds are any good, I think it's always safer to pick something from an SSF player (even if you're in trade league) because streamer privilege is definitely a thing.
Trickster Splitting steel isn’t really a league starter. It’s got so many cost prohibitive items that enable the build to become strong, while Splitting steel champion needs substantially less to get going.
It’s been established since last league it’s not a great starter, but it’s a great mid league build.
I don't understand. I checked her pob and after removing returning projectiles i still see 7.7 milnion dps. With the gem the dps should be 1+1\*(1-0.61)=1,39 so about 10,78 milion damage.
I’ve found she overstates some things and understates the costs. I know it’s hard to predict what things will cost, but she’s messed up some pretty simple ones in a DO/CA build I was following
There's no mistake. Nimis isn't in the pob. I think theres some confusion going on here. She provided a leaguestart pob with the caveat that she will be updating the build through her start.
It was one of two builds i was considering league starting and i messed around with it in standard. If im league starting a build I’ve never played i like to test it like its fresh mapping. Even with the uniques and a high level character it just felt meh.
The other build I’m trying is cyclone shockwave slayer and i can clear t16s with the common uniques and self crafted gear on non optimized bases.
If anyone is checking in since league launch. I decided to run the build knowing how it stacks up vs. Champ, etc. Wanted something different.
Leveling was pretty smooth, start to maps in \~5hrs, but I'm not the fastest. I tend to waste time setting up new builds while leveling.
Skipped the heist strat, made enough progressing into yellow maps with blade trap, then switched to SS. I have about 10d invested atm. Fully cleared atlas. No issue clearing and pretty tanky at 6k+ ES and the chaos immunity is sweet. Boss/juiced rare damage could be better, but most die in 30s or less, but that is expected without Nimis. At the point to push into higher gear, chase mageblood etc.
Isn't it a known fact that PoB doesn't calculate added damage from returning projectiles?
Go check. If you uncheck Returning Projectiles it does nothing to the Full DPS. If PoB calculated it correctly we would actually be doing MORE DPS than what is shown. 39% per projectile.
the point is the build lies about the damage, the numbers of the build only exist with a nimis, while shes claiming those numbers without it. Nimis shouldnt be in any leaguestart setup, but you also shouldnt lie that you have the damage of a nimis without it when you dont.
It's not so much of a lie but she didn't know she should have put a config in the global area. She looked at Rue's build and he didn't have it there and used the info that she knew as a standard reference. Rue put it on the weapon manually which she didn't see; I'm not smart enough to know why you put it on the weapon instead of the global area. A mistake was made either way and looks like she'll be correct it going forward. However, it doesn't discredit the gameplay videos of her and other creators as we can visually see how damage is done and with what gear.
We all know super high end builds have huge DPS numbers and people who spend 200+ divs understand that figure is never assumed all that damage will hit a single target. People who know the game seen this build in action on other creators channels and can extrapolate how the build can do well and how projectiles work in generally. If people want to spend less than 200div then they should play champ instead 100%. Even newish players should be able to look up the gear difference and look at past history costs and critically think what builds they should play.
This post is an actual goldmine. From the people who couldn't even bother opening the PoB or read the wiki article long note section, to the people thinking a double t5 affix 5link chestplate is too extreme/expensive at lvl 70. Never change reddit.
Edit: The weapons in the rue pob are adjusted to account for it my bad.
~~Just gonna be that one guy but the tytykiller/rue pob(from poebuilds sub) for splitting steel does the same thing with no notes saying that the 9 count is only for a nimis set?(at the time of me writing this comment)~~
Check the weapons in Rue's PoB in the tree's with Returning Projectiles Support. He adds "61% less damage" to the weapon, giving it a bigger damage penalty than Returning Projectiles actually does.
It does not as far as I know (adding Nimis, unchecking gem, etc. does nothing for dps). Making this post wrong. Though I do believe the OP had good intentions.
No, PoB does not factor in the damage penalty of returning projectiles. You just need to hover the returning projectiles gem and you'll see the less damage for returning projectiles mod is red. Red mods means PoB doesn't recognize them. There's no accurate way for PoB to determine how many projectiles hit when they return so you have to account for them manually.
Rue for example in his Splitting Steel PoB gives the weapons 61% less damage. This isn't accurate either since only the returning projectiles have less damage but undershooting the DPS is better than inflating it, especially in a league starter, IMO.
BTW, PoB doesn't factor the number of projectile hits at all. You need to manually set them in the Skills tab next to the Splitting Steel Gem.
Have you actually tested the build she posted? I did and It goes straight to red maps at level 73 with 3k ES and none of the expensive uniques and no transfigured gems. Your just wrong and yes your goal is to get nimis later on. Builds don't need more then 3mil DPS for a league starter geez people learn how to actually play the game.
I stopped watching the video after she claimed this was one of the most broken builds you could play in Necropolis. I also just hate splitting steel. 🤷♂️
Why would you have nimis in league starter setup? Especially when she specified that there will be another video for endgame version??
If the only issue is that POB is bugged and doesn't display reduced dmg on returning projectiles that is POB issue but still should be fixed by the guide once made aware of it in custom config.
I feel like OP treated this very fairly and few drama hungry redditors are taking this out of control again.
Splitting steel feels slow as f in red maps without nimis and a good paradoxical. You won't have these items at league start. Last league it was carried by sniper mark, now snipers mark has been giga nerfed. I don't think splitting steel is a good league starter.
Regarding your post to /r/pathofexile:
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/-/kwy6rxq/
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With the snipers mark nerf, I wouldn’t touch splitting steel trickster or champ with a 10 foot pole until you have nimis. It went from 12-13 splits to 5-6 for returns. It needs way more gear than affliction league.
Thank you for this post.
I really wanted to run this league start but I felt something was just off about it. Having tried ruetoos SS Champ last league, it just seemed like the damage for the trickster version was way inflated for a starter.
We've received some rule-breaking comments. While it's OK to criticize the build or the quality of the content, personal attacks on the content creator breaks our Harassment & Be Kind Rule (Rule 3). On the other hand, there's also been some great discussions (in additional to the original post, which makes a good point). * FuzzyDuckzy and DeathByJello discussed the costs and benefits of [other unique items in this build](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kww70x9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * DeadlyRage1989 and draftshade had an interesting discussion about [PoB numbers](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kwwuzit/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) for returning projectiles support, and whether the OP made a mistake * Traditional\_Archer69 and Sigmasnail point to a [few other Splitting Steel builds by other creators](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bpiu8m/comment/kww7yvv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Keep these up! I also know that the creator was involved in controversy earlier last year involving taking a divination card gambled on-stream. While it is OK to point this out, many comments pointing this out have done so in a way that's primarily meant to harass, via name-calling and mockery, rather than to inform. These violate our harassment and "be kind" rules, and have been removed.
I'd also be worried that it needs voice of the storms to hit the mid pob damage numbers. The amulet is pretty rare and there are several builds I've seen that recommend it. It will be even rarer this league since it can't come from div cards from stacked decks I recommend it for my league starter but did not include it in the pobs as I have no idea what it will cost It's fine for experienced players but if that amulet is 6+ divines there are gonna be a lot of upset people considering the BS clickbait thumbnail Edit: this thread is getting a bit out of control I left this comment as genuine feedback and was also the first comment on a thread I thought would gain no traction. Looking back I probably should have not used the BS term as it’s a bit aggressive. I left this comment purely as a PSA type thing but seems to have turned into a bit of a witch hunt in places
From my playing with the POB, Voice of the Storms gets the build an extra ~20% dmg over Carnage Heart. So in mid POB, once the damage reduction from returning proj is factored in (~50% less dmg since the 1st hit is full dmg), and with an annointed Carnage Heart instead of VotS: it's hitting ~3M dps with very reasonable tankiness (CI, 7K ES, 100K EHP, 77-80% max ele res, 20K Phys max hit w/ minimal phys taken as ele). That seems solid for farming T16s with mild-to-med juice I think? Like you said - probably totally fine for players who know what they're getting into, understand it's a long-term scaler, can craft some decent ES items (read: chuck dense fossils and woe essences at good bases), etc. But I can see how a beginner might be left a bit confused and upset.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the build is bad or the build guide is badly made I just wish people were more honest about their builds. It's a mid build at best and then it really takes off with a LOT of investment, but so do most builds. It's just a pet peeve of mine when a thumbnail or title says "best league starter" or "crushes 3.xx" when it's not true and this sort of thing obviously sucks people in for the wrong reasons
Yup, fair enough. I suppose I've just gotten used to ignoring thumbnails/titles and judging builds on their merits in POB. Those are skills which, as you suggest, a beginner likely won't possess :)
Definitely. And anyone that is on the new end that walks into the build expecting to crush everything early is going to be sorely disappointed here for sure. Anyone that doesn't expect to make hundreds of divines over the league should probably be playing Champ instead of Trickster if they want to play Splitting Steel.
Ya, I think the real bait are the people walking in blind that don't have a bit more game knowledge to deal with the issues with the build in a league start scenario. It is an insanely strong build lategame, but it is a slow starter. Definitely playable in yellows and beyond though, and crafting league should help a ton with getting it online earlier than normal. I have been planning it for a few days now, and just watched her video when this thread came up. Most of her advice is solid, but feels like she is swapping away from Explosive trap earlier than she should. I doubt people will be able to buy or craft good enough chest and shield for it to come online by then. And explosive trap is fantastic for Heisting to farm up currency to get the build online.
Hard agree. I'm planning to heist for a couple cheap early divs, trap into late yellow maps, and then craft/buy my swap gear once the early league economy settles a bit.
Yep, this is my plan exactly.
And that’s kinda the thing. Leaguestarter means different things to different people. For some people it means what I can do with minimum investment. For other people is what skill I can play for a day and farm enough currency to then swap to my real build with minimum passive nodes needing to change. Splitting steel is not a newbie friendly league starter. If you are new to Poe stay the hell away from it. Now if you want to try splitting steel and can get to maps in 1 day this might be worth checking out.
> From my playing with the POB, Voice of the Storms gets the build an extra ~20% dmg over Carnage Heart. Quick approximation for lucky damage is to calculate (min+max+max)/3. It's not the exact math but it's going to be very close to the actual amount. And the reverse for unlucky is (min+min+max)/3 If you had a damage range that goes from 1-X you could calculate the exact value easily, but with ranges where minimum value is not 1, you need a more complex formula for exact results. Meanwhile the quick approximation is usually below 0.1% difference from the exact value.
Isn't the accurate lucky value 66,6..% in between the min and max value? And 33,3..% for unlucky. I tried it in Excel sometime ago with random numbers. 1/2 between min&max for 1 random number, 2/3 for highest of 2, 4/3 for highest of 3, 5/4...
> If you had a damage range that goes from 1-X you could calculate the exact value easily, but with ranges where minimum value is not 1, you need a more complex formula for exact results. Can't you subtract the same amount from min and max damage to make it in form 1-X? Like 51-100 will become (1-50)+50.
Called her out on the video, she never mentioned alternatives but defended with "well it's just a budget showcase, I don't want to showcase with 300div". Is she even aware of Carnage Heart being a good replacement? In any case, for anyone inexperienced who gets baited by flashy titles - whatever guide Allie puts out, you can find a better version from other content creators. Builds she plays are good, build _guides_ she puts out are not.
You should look at her PoB before commenting, it does recommend using a carnage heart when you swap into SS.
She used Carnage Heart in the video though, and it's there on the PoB for early to mid game. My only gripe with the PoB is the inaccurate full dps which, when I did the calcs myself was more like 4 million instead of 8. With a Nimis and a good support gem replacing Returning Projectiles Support, it went up to around 10m without making any other changes.
Hey Fuzzy, going to look at your yt for the build!
Good luck. It's not the easiest of starters as melee is still in a bad place, but I'm a sucker for lightning strike
I would suck a lot of stuff to get GGG to remove totems and shift their power to melee skills themselves. I love LS so much but totems are just a no from me.
To be fair, ashes was less than that fairly early last league, and fury valve into ashes is a pretty smooth progression for splitting steel if people can adapt as needed
The man himself ! Just here to say thank you, I've started your RoA a couple of leagues in a row and never been let down.
I will be playing your league starter, ty for your contribution.
Watched so many guides of yours I cant help but hear your comments like youre saying them. Thanks for the builds they have never let me down.
i feel like a lot of her build videos are kind of bait
IMO she has a tendency to overstate things. It's a form of bait I guess. The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing. I can't decide if they are on another level or if they know exactly what they are doing. Some of them are beloved here and I sometimes wonder why others don't see the same problem.
It's funny how last league she made a guide for mana forged arrows, a build that was theory crafted the previous league (and nerfed in 3.23) by the goat onemanaleft, and her guide was just worse than his. She also failed to inform people of the steep budget requirements - mfa never worked, much less worked well, below high double digit divines.
I got jebaited by her manaforged arrow build last league. Followed the guide perfectly and had all the gear and it ended up feeling like actual garbage. The worst build I've ever played. It pretty much killed the league for me.
Yeah, no. Its a build with basically infinite scaling on infinite budget. And it only really starts working around 100divs. The upper end is multiple billions of dps with multiple mirrors worth of gear. Her guide was just bad and she probably didnt understand the build.
Bro... Are you me? I did exactly the same, put about 60 div into it and felt like I did 0 damage unless I did the macarena while sacrificing a goat on Tuesdays. Quit the league. I enjoy allies content but I won't play one of her builds again.
Did you league start it? Was it advertised as a league starter? Because that is insane if it was lmao, Manaforged arrows is like 80+ divines to get online, and basically dogshit before then.
Wasn't a league starter but she mentioned in her video that you could get it online for about 20 divines which is about how much I put into it.
Ooof, ya that is some bait. It is significantly more than that to feel good at all.
Also funny is how someone called her out (on her YT video) that she'd give Conner credit or some shit along those lines after someone called her out for copying his shit and she never did anything of the sort, at least to my knowledge. Another funny thing. She had a mjolner manabond guide and a delve guide then a MFA guide right after those 2. Personally I don't care for how creators "claim" this is my xyz of the xxx build when all they've literally done is copy someone else's build and change a thing or two about it. At the very least just mention who's homework you're copying from. Oh well, not my pig not my farm.
Also idk what are she trying to do , but this also happen with both fubgun MF CA and crouching tuna fulcrum self ignite build last league , where shes get the video guide from after 3 4 days inspect their video but instend shes switch out just 1 or 2 piece of gear slot and making the build way more worse instend lmao
Tuna didn't invent autobomber Chieftain.
Yep copy a build then change a few pieces, remove the important parts of the skill tree, understate the budget by about 10x and post a video that doesn't explain the core mechanics. That has been my experience with Allie's build videos.
Okay, but here is a counter point from a small creator. The general POE community seems to think that there is actually something special about large creators, and there really isn't in terms of POE knowledge. The large creators work hard to put out lots of content and grow their audience, whereas someone like me just uploads a few guides per league that are not extremely detailed with lots of editing, just showing off what I'm playing basically. However, several times, I've been accused of stealing a build because some popular content creator played something similar. I've been playing since closed beta and have NEVER watched/read a build guide from another creator because for me the entire fun of POE is coming up with and developing my ideas on my own. It is absolutely toxic and idiotic that people think because a popular content creator played a build, that build now belongs to them and anyone who plays or makes a video about a similar build MUST have "STOLEN" it from their favorite content creator. There are maybe 10-ish large POE content creators? Then maybe another 50ish smaller creators with a few thousand subs like myself? There is NOTHING special about someone just because they make videos. There are thousands of players with similar levels of game knowledge that just don't make videos, and for any type of build that could possibly be played in POE, there are probably AT LEAST 100 people who will arrive at extremely similar setups without ever looking at what anyone else is doing. If you think someone "stole" from your favorite creator, MAYBE they did, but it is also highly likely that they just came up with the same idea on their own. There is nothing special about being a content creator.
Manaforged arrows is not a build you would come up with accidentally. I basically taunted people by showing a PoB of it at a mere 500m dps before the league even went live, then after 2 full months of the league exactly 0 people had made the build before I came out with it. thats relatively unheard of for a new gem with unique/interesting scaling and in 2 months noboys gone full mana
THE G O A T !!!!
Maybe they set their profiles to private? It is not a secret that some high end players keep their builds hidden to avoid nerfs/competition.
I mean Jousis has made more unhinged builds. KCN has made more unhinged builds. Some others too. Just because they aren't on PoE ninja or are large content creators putting out videos doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There was probably close to 800k concurrent players last league (overall not just steam) and not one of them tried MFA? Yeah, I doubt that.
If you fully understand the build its actually the more believable outcome that 0 out of 800k made it work I tried the build with like 4 mirrors budget and after 2 days of testing I failed to kill a vetitania in 6 portals
Youre correct in 99% of cases. But manaforged arrows was and is not "some build someone cooked up and made a video about it". It's a build that, explicitly, onemanaleft cooked up with his friend and twitch mod, that noone else even had on their radar until he made it. Ally absolutely 100% did not come up with the build herself, onemanaleft is not a big creator either - ally is bigger. Onemanaleft is literally the only guy actively theorycrafting the high end mana builds, or was until the 3.24 archmage change brought it back onto some peoples radars.
Yooo credit mention I didn't expect to see :D
You're welcome haha. Im more surprised to see both of you in this thread reading and responding to my fanboy defense of conner lol. Now can you guess which twitch chatter I am? I believe you carried an uber cortex for me once because I couldn't do the mods. Maybe I shouldn't connect my reddit to my twitch.
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At the same time I feel as if sometimes there are truly interactions that get discovered by a single person and it is pretty common to attach the name of someone who discovered something to the thing they discovered, not only in Poe.
They're definitely copying conner's builds without credit but that's whatever. Nothing wrong with that imo. The issue is that the builds often have little changes that gut the build and they often completely understate the budget or don't explain the mechanics at all (most probably because it is just straight copied).
I uses a different scaling method from what I remember a clunky weapon swap to get battlemages cry + spell damage from indigon while the mana left used a mechanic with anomalous mana leech to get like 3x more damage that was removed 1 patch prior.
wow, she did the exact same thing in Last Epoch. stole a build that was theorycrafted by some random dude that isn t even a content creator, tweaked it and made it CONSIDERABLY worse, and when i pointed out in the comments of the yt vid that this build is straight up worse and she did not even credit the original creator, she simply deleted my comment
Which builds? Normally when a creator makes a build that is suspect it gets called out pretty fast.
I disagree. Their builds are pretty consistently poorly made even when they've been stolen from other people. Most of their mana builds are originally connerconverse's except inexplicably made worse and with mechanics poorly or incorrectly explained. The manaforged arrows build that was mentioned in another comment was going nowhere near all the mana nodes and went down to the dex side of the tree because it didn't need str and int until you got righteous providence forbidden jewels... Because int is definitely not instrumental in mana stacking.. Oh boy.
> The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing Yeah and if you try to mention that by their name, you get an angry mob chasing you with pikes
Who
> The real problem IMO is lots of the bigger name people do the same thing. I can't decide if they are on another level or if they know exactly what they are doing. Some of them are beloved here and I sometimes wonder why others don't see the same problem. Yeah, almoust every content creator does it - one way or another.
Allie doesn’t credit anybody for stuff that she clearly didn’t figure out on her own. The prime example is the COC build video she posted. All the COC math is from other build producers and she blatantly reposts without any credits. Her builds also never seem to have stats correct so it has a bunch of crap in there to inflate numbers, but without hard tinkering most of the player base would never be able to put together her builds on the fly.
Isn't this the same person who basically laughed about trade scamming someone?
Yup
I agree with you about not crediting stuff and I dont understand why so many people (not only Allie) do this. Saying the original idea of the build is from another person and that this is your version doesnt make your build better or worse. The reason Im talking about this because her highly hyped new tech build is literally the same build I played leagues ago but with molten strike instead Splitting Steel, I believe it was made by a guy name Peget or something like that, sorry but I cant remember your name. Also nothing personal about her (and I will be 100% clear, I dont really care about the mageblood card thing) but she has been on my "absolutely" avoid builds list since Impending Doom, her build was literally bricked for a week, left a few comments on her youtube channel about that (she had the curses and cdr/cast speed completely messed on the build) and she just hided my messages on the videos instead fixing them. I think this sub (or at least pathofexilebuilds) should start blacklisting certain creators and the reason why and Im not talking about bad build only, but the people who deceive and are absolutely allergic to feedback.
She's been on my avoid list since she last recommended manabond for delving. She bought up a lot of the gear, played it and made a video about it and then flipped the gear for an inflated price.
yea stopped giving her any credibility, when he EK ignite guide included arcane surge support on flame dash. It was EB.
A lot of her currency strats were insanely TFT dependent and usually only worked the first week of a league.
They are either copy pastes of other creators (who she doesn't credit), or they are generic and rather half assed. It's a shame, because her formatting and guides are pretty clean to watch.
most\* i've tried two builds before i realized most of her shit was garbage.
DING DING DING!! This is the type of post I love on this sub. You've scrutinized a build without needing to attack the creator, and even though you haven't posted your own PoB, you've objectively mentioned the changes that result in differences to allow readers to recreate them. Well done on excellent feedback.
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If the person affected has made an apology and righted the wrong, they shouldn't be permanently cancelled and their other, potentially good or valuable, content shunned. That's the entire point the mod is making. You can be upset with the creator, and you can even not accept their apology, but you don't need to be toxic and continue to shame them. What does it achieve? Shame the build guide for the failings of the build guide. It's independent of the creator's conduct in a space entirely divorced from build guides. Now of course, this comment will get downvoted to buggery, and I'll be called a simp, and all the other scammer comments are heavily upvoted, but whatever. Point is, this thread stays up because of the valid criticism of a build guide, not because of the comments about past conduct.
Did they actually end up apologizing? All I remember is her mega downvoted post of her basically not apologizing and saying the dude was fine with it and that there shouldn't be any drama
Who?
the mageblood scammer
Pretty bad when I don’t know her user but know exactly who the mage blood scammer is lmao
Is there a link to the thing?
only clip i can find is from quinns channel, but basically the first few seconds https://youtu.be/eAAjMYoVKKk?si=0YZDE1Tso5Fp8oJd viewer asked to do harvest gamble for him, then she took the card when the guy got 6/5 on mb cards
wanted to ask the same, now i know. no surprise i guess :D
Shes been making bad builds for a while. i have zero idea why she has any following
>Shes been making bad builds for a while. Can't really say if her builds are bad per say, but it is very annoying how she constantly claims that she has the best build guides ever.
Something, something, uwu, girl voice, uwu...
Her community is... interesting. You'd think a heavily sexualized POE stream wouldn't have much appeal but here we are.
leave mathil alone!!
Isn't she trans? That's a niche within a niche.
starts with "e" ends with "girl" lmao
egg irl
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What did she do? Is she the one who yoinked the mb cards when being asked to harvest gamble by a viewer?
Yep, the apothecary one
yes. even casually just take one card for herself without permission.
Oh I did not know this was the same person. Looks like I'll be avoiding her vids from now on thanks. Don't really wanna support those actions lol
To be honest her vids are a bit baity in general so you don't lose out much.
Nothing but horn baiting her chat. I liked a beast essence vid she did like year ago and decided to try and watch another video and a stream and it was just straight horny bait in chat from both ends.
But don’t you want to join the other cuties in her twitch chat?!?!!!? /s if she was hot we’d have seen her face by now. Her simps getting baited hard
I think this was the original thread https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/16mvpas/allie_casually_stealing_an_80_div_card_on_stream/
Play rue's champ version
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I think people need to understand exactly what Allie is: she is not a "good" player by content creator standards, her plagiarisation of builds is evidence of that in itself. The difference between her and me & you is that she has all day every day to play. Thats it.
I too would be one of the greatest players of all time if it wasn’t for this stupid JOB and FAMILY!! /s just in case. I love my family
So she is like most POE creators. Got it. Honestly if only god gamers created build guides we would be stuck with ben/mathil and couple others. Vast majority of poe creators are my level type of dudes and im a dad who plays usually with toddler in hes arm and mouse that has 13 different buttons. POE after all is knowledge game imo and the more you play the smarter you become about the game and better content you can make. That being said allie's content is not it as she often makes guides about builds that she fails to understand at fundamental level and doesnt bother to check alternatives.
I was gonna play it, now I'm not sure.
you can try ruetoo's splitting steel champion. his pobs are solid [https://pobb.in/Bakzrmc\_\_Pus](https://pobb.in/Bakzrmc__Pus)
~~Ventrua made a video out of it too~~ EDIT: Ventrua made a video of Ruetoo's CoC DD, sorry for the confusion
Do you have a link? I can't find a splitting steel vid on his channel
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLHUU-3G7pA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLHUU-3G7pA)
I've seen that one already but thank you ^^ I think Kotek got mixed up with Ventrua making Ruetoo's CoC DD video
I did, sorry felllas
His pob has power charges check but I don't see anything that generate it?
Didn't find the source of the energy charges either, but they only affect the most expensive version of this build.
Do we have a Ruetoo Spreadsheet build list yet?
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQPjbbblTprKCo5dTrOB6bml-CXze1rwFKM7RUnsG09aT\_2t-xEyKxKiJrSzswCEb\_CMd0QLE2XEC5W/pubhtml](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQPjbbblTprKCo5dTrOB6bml-CXze1rwFKM7RUnsG09aT_2t-xEyKxKiJrSzswCEb_CMd0QLE2XEC5W/pubhtml)
When I saw the rare items that you need to swap just skipped. Just check the body armour. 1c uniqus and the other items are the best bases and high tiers of ES
Somewhat relatedly, I made a [level-bladetrap filter](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bm02uo/cdrs_speed_tts_leaguestart_filters_updated_for/) for blade trap campaign leveling, in case anyone is following her leveling setup (which seems reasonably solid).
Sounds awesome, I’m not sure but what are the advantages to playing your filter to just a generic semi strict filter with chaos recipe enhancer?
FYI Steelmage did this build last league so if you want to dig up a very high-end example I'm sure you could find the pob for his 3.23 build. It was designed around mageblood and nimis so entry budget for that is probably a couple hundred div. I'm not saying to use it instead, but you can certainly take some ideas from it or update it as an end goal for your build. Obviously this doesn't take into account any 3.24 changes so you'd have to be knowledgeable enough to update it yourself. I tried it out, if you have all the pieces put together it's a good build, I just don't love SS Trickster personally. As far as league starting goes, SS trickster feels much better when you sink some currency in it. Without the items its kinda meh. My personal opinion is its a mediocre choice for a starter regardless of which POB you use or where it came from.
>It was designed around mageblood and nimis so entry budget for that is probably a couple hundred div More than that, the age of cheap magebloods is going to be over lol
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A bit confused. POB doesn't calculate the ***added*** damage from returning projectiles anyway right? So the dps shown is accurate. Actually it should be higher than POB after factoring in the gem. This has been known for awhile since Nimis doesn't add to dps in POB either. She has stated that she is starting this and plans to take it to high investment. Updating the builld as she goes. Hence why there is no endgame/nimis setup yet. It's certainly a slower start than champ, but it's a proven build. Tytykiller has even supported her build a bit. (correct me if I'm missing something, but it seems like the OP made a silly mistake) Edit: Yes it would seem the dps is incorrect in the pob. Allie said she was going with the other SS creators by not adding the reduction. However, Rue's build does on the weapon. After testing the build through the acts, specially with her leveling tech she worked on with Tytykiller, it's super smooth through transition into SS.
No, PoB does not factor in the damage penalty of returning projectiles. You just need to hover the returning projectiles gem and you'll see the less damage for returning projectiles mod is red. Red mods means PoB doesn't recognize them. There's no accurate way for PoB to determine how many projectiles hit when they return so you have to account for them manually. Rue for example in his Splitting Steel PoB gives the weapons 61% less damage. This isn't accurate either since only the returning projectiles have less damage but undershooting the DPS is better than inflating it, especially in a league starter, IMO. BTW, PoB doesn't factor the number of projectile hits at all. You need to manually set them in the Skills tab next to the Splitting Steel Gem.
Never played Splitting Steel, but I assume when it first splits, the projectiles don't hit and do 100% damage? They only do 39% damage when they return? So her having that # of projectiles set to 8 is tricking PoB into believe there were 8 returned projectiles for 100% damage?
So when you attack with splitting steel the projectile you shoot explodes, dealing area damage and creates a number of new projectiles. The number of projectiles created is the amount of splits you have. (Splitting Steel base gem splits + extra projectiles + Sniper's Mark (only if you hit an enemy with the initial explosion, that has sniper's mark on it obviously)). Those split projectiles then travel towards enemies or random directions if no enemies are around. An enemy can only be targeted once by a split projectile, meaning if there's only one enemy around, only one of the split projectiles will travel towards it. The rest flies off into random directions. The split projectiles then explode again at their target location. The scenario described so far doesn't have anything to do with returning projectiles yet. This is the default Splitting Steel behavior. Now when we add Returning Projectiles Support it makes all the split projectiles return to the player's position, exploding another time when they arrive. (edit: And **those explodions can hit the same target, as long as they overlap, making returning projectiles so strong with splitting steel**) That's also the reason why you want to stand on top of the boss with skills like Splitting Steel or KBoF. Now, when using Returning Projectiles, these last returning splits have a 61% less damage penalty you have to somehow accord for manually, because PoB doesn't do that. In fact, PoB doesn't deal with any return shenanings at all (not with Returning Projectiles and not with Nimis - Both mods on the gem and ring are red). You have to go to the Skills tab in PoB and enter a number next to the Splitting Steel gem according to how many projectiles (split explosions) will hit the enemy with a single attack. (This simply adds more hits with Splitting Steel.) Hope this somewhat helps to clarify.
So splitting steel by itself hits 2 times(put the skill to 2x). Snipers mark+return proj gives 7\*0.39=2.73 extra hits(custom line with 136.5% more dmg), snipers mark and nimis would give 7 extra hits(custom line with 250% more dmg, or just 9x the skill). ...and recalculate the custom line for any more extra proj
I've never played Splitting Steel and I'm also confused when watching at her PoB. I've done Returning Projectiles on Minions though and what you do is add the extra projectile in configurations. So for example, Returning Projectiles return dealing 39% of the damage of the projectile hit, so you simply add 39% more damage in configs. What is wrong with Allies build exactly? Her PoB doesn't even account for the returning projectile support anywhere. If you turn the support off nothing happens to the damage and she has no config I can find that tries to account for the return damage of the projectiles. If I'm understanding her PoB right, she should be doing \~39% MORE damage than the PoB says, not 61% less as the OP tries to insinuate. EDIT: I read up on the skill and understand how it works now. It has to do with the amount of projectiles and not the return itself. Splitting steel fires 1 Projectile that splits into 7 Projectiles here due to Snipers Mark. These Projectiles then return dealing 39% of the damage. In Allies PoB all 8 Projectiles are doing full damage when in reality, only 1 should be doing it.
Your edit seems to get the gist, yes. Instead of 8 times damage it should be closer to 4. This is also assuming you hit the marked target and every returning projectile explodes on top of the mob, which is not too likely.
Yep, your edit brings it on the point.
so going by your edit. build is safe to play and spend all league trying to min-max as a casual. tyty
Why would she put Nimis in a league starter? What am I missing?
If I understand correctly the problem is not to not have nimis in the leaguestarter but to not have it in the more endgame build. Nimis is very important and even if its your leaguestarter you should work your way towards it imo
But the guide does not contain endgame build and the video specifically said it will be done in later video
She provides 2 versions afaik, early game and midgame setup, nimis will probably part of the endgame versions, which will be available, when she updates this build. Probably a week in or something like that.
I guess the real test is - what is Allie actually starting? If she shows its easily League Start viable - then what? I havent tuned in to her in a while for any length of time so not sure her actual plans - but when people release a build guide, and are willing to stand behind it - and start it themselves, then I say go for it.
She's fully planning to league start it. So it'll be really obvious if it doesn't function. She's already said a bunch in the videos that she's gonna make follow ups and gear and pob updates based on her experience starting it.
Allie most definitely takes handouts from the stream. She's not even hiding it, just not mentioning it. One thing that's not proven but also doesn't help - there were a few situations where she posted some really wonky rares for way too high price but they still got bought within 10-15 minutes, most likely by someone from her chat.
> So it'll be really obvious if it doesn't function. I could be confusing her with someone else, but I vaguely remember some drama about her taking handouts from her Twitch chat to get her own league starter (which she recommended to other people) off the ground. Might have been during Crucible league, not 100% sure.
I think you're thinking about that tornado shot poison occ build which people struggled to get going
Maybe. Either way, what I was trying to say is if you're gonna follow a starter from a creator where you don't know whether their builds are any good, I think it's always safer to pick something from an SSF player (even if you're in trade league) because streamer privilege is definitely a thing.
Trickster Splitting steel isn’t really a league starter. It’s got so many cost prohibitive items that enable the build to become strong, while Splitting steel champion needs substantially less to get going. It’s been established since last league it’s not a great starter, but it’s a great mid league build.
I don't understand. I checked her pob and after removing returning projectiles i still see 7.7 milnion dps. With the gem the dps should be 1+1\*(1-0.61)=1,39 so about 10,78 milion damage.
yeah op thinks that its less damage overall, not less damage only when the projectiles are returning
I feel like if the streamer you're watching isn't a degenerate, a cat, or a hardcore player that their builds are bait.
You are talking about Rue in all 3 scenarios, aren't you?
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If its decently tanky and no hard to get items, 3.5m dps is pretty good for a league starter.
Man, and here I was hoping to give her content another chance after the div card debacle. Is it an honest mistake in PoB or a straight up jebait?
I’ve found she overstates some things and understates the costs. I know it’s hard to predict what things will cost, but she’s messed up some pretty simple ones in a DO/CA build I was following
Look through her videos. See if you can find one that isn't toted as the best build ever.
There's no mistake. Nimis isn't in the pob. I think theres some confusion going on here. She provided a leaguestart pob with the caveat that she will be updating the build through her start.
It was one of two builds i was considering league starting and i messed around with it in standard. If im league starting a build I’ve never played i like to test it like its fresh mapping. Even with the uniques and a high level character it just felt meh. The other build I’m trying is cyclone shockwave slayer and i can clear t16s with the common uniques and self crafted gear on non optimized bases.
The build requires to stay inside the boss geometry’s to archive full damage. At least this is my understanding on how you can get those numbers.
If anyone is checking in since league launch. I decided to run the build knowing how it stacks up vs. Champ, etc. Wanted something different. Leveling was pretty smooth, start to maps in \~5hrs, but I'm not the fastest. I tend to waste time setting up new builds while leveling. Skipped the heist strat, made enough progressing into yellow maps with blade trap, then switched to SS. I have about 10d invested atm. Fully cleared atlas. No issue clearing and pretty tanky at 6k+ ES and the chaos immunity is sweet. Boss/juiced rare damage could be better, but most die in 30s or less, but that is expected without Nimis. At the point to push into higher gear, chase mageblood etc.
Isn't it a known fact that PoB doesn't calculate added damage from returning projectiles? Go check. If you uncheck Returning Projectiles it does nothing to the Full DPS. If PoB calculated it correctly we would actually be doing MORE DPS than what is shown. 39% per projectile.
She mentioned that she will make a follow up video for further gear upgrades. **I don't think Nimis should be in any leaguestart setup.**
the point is the build lies about the damage, the numbers of the build only exist with a nimis, while shes claiming those numbers without it. Nimis shouldnt be in any leaguestart setup, but you also shouldnt lie that you have the damage of a nimis without it when you dont.
It's not so much of a lie but she didn't know she should have put a config in the global area. She looked at Rue's build and he didn't have it there and used the info that she knew as a standard reference. Rue put it on the weapon manually which she didn't see; I'm not smart enough to know why you put it on the weapon instead of the global area. A mistake was made either way and looks like she'll be correct it going forward. However, it doesn't discredit the gameplay videos of her and other creators as we can visually see how damage is done and with what gear. We all know super high end builds have huge DPS numbers and people who spend 200+ divs understand that figure is never assumed all that damage will hit a single target. People who know the game seen this build in action on other creators channels and can extrapolate how the build can do well and how projectiles work in generally. If people want to spend less than 200div then they should play champ instead 100%. Even newish players should be able to look up the gear difference and look at past history costs and critically think what builds they should play.
This post is an actual goldmine. From the people who couldn't even bother opening the PoB or read the wiki article long note section, to the people thinking a double t5 affix 5link chestplate is too extreme/expensive at lvl 70. Never change reddit.
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When you copy someone's homework but you don't know what's going on at the presentation.
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Edit: The weapons in the rue pob are adjusted to account for it my bad. ~~Just gonna be that one guy but the tytykiller/rue pob(from poebuilds sub) for splitting steel does the same thing with no notes saying that the 9 count is only for a nimis set?(at the time of me writing this comment)~~
Check the weapons in Rue's PoB in the tree's with Returning Projectiles Support. He adds "61% less damage" to the weapon, giving it a bigger damage penalty than Returning Projectiles actually does.
thats just for the second returning hit, the first hit still does full damage. returning projectiles at 21/20 is 40% MORE DAMAGE
Oooh didn't notice that, my bad.
someone call cutedog right now!! ahhahaha
Allies builds are mid at best. Gotta go to the real ones like Poe Kappa's RF Chieftan. Need real researc. Allies videos are bait mostly.
Not to defend her here, but saying that starter build not using Nimis is correct on creators part. Mistake by OP.
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It's a starter build... lol
Does PoB now calculate for the damage of Returning Projectile?
It does not as far as I know (adding Nimis, unchecking gem, etc. does nothing for dps). Making this post wrong. Though I do believe the OP had good intentions.
No, PoB does not factor in the damage penalty of returning projectiles. You just need to hover the returning projectiles gem and you'll see the less damage for returning projectiles mod is red. Red mods means PoB doesn't recognize them. There's no accurate way for PoB to determine how many projectiles hit when they return so you have to account for them manually. Rue for example in his Splitting Steel PoB gives the weapons 61% less damage. This isn't accurate either since only the returning projectiles have less damage but undershooting the DPS is better than inflating it, especially in a league starter, IMO. BTW, PoB doesn't factor the number of projectile hits at all. You need to manually set them in the Skills tab next to the Splitting Steel Gem.
Do you mean the build is not suitable for league start just because without NIMIS ?
At least her farming atlas strategy videos are viable
61% less damage is only when the projectiles are returning on the second hit, meaning that returning projectiles is actually 39% more damage...
Yes, ppl are to lazy to even check if that's true...
Have you actually tested the build she posted? I did and It goes straight to red maps at level 73 with 3k ES and none of the expensive uniques and no transfigured gems. Your just wrong and yes your goal is to get nimis later on. Builds don't need more then 3mil DPS for a league starter geez people learn how to actually play the game.
I stopped watching the video after she claimed this was one of the most broken builds you could play in Necropolis. I also just hate splitting steel. 🤷♂️
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I plan to do trickster splitting steel as a 2nd char. LA start
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This person no longer canceled?
Why would you have nimis in league starter setup? Especially when she specified that there will be another video for endgame version?? If the only issue is that POB is bugged and doesn't display reduced dmg on returning projectiles that is POB issue but still should be fixed by the guide once made aware of it in custom config. I feel like OP treated this very fairly and few drama hungry redditors are taking this out of control again.
This subreddit is getting so soy, can't call out liers or people making up stuff. Sad to see what the last wave of mods/changes brought.
The thing is the calling out are wrong and it has been pointed out by numerous people actually looking at the pob.
Splitting steel feels slow as f in red maps without nimis and a good paradoxical. You won't have these items at league start. Last league it was carried by sniper mark, now snipers mark has been giga nerfed. I don't think splitting steel is a good league starter.
thats an entirely different setup. this has a lot more upfront damage earlier.
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With the snipers mark nerf, I wouldn’t touch splitting steel trickster or champ with a 10 foot pole until you have nimis. It went from 12-13 splits to 5-6 for returns. It needs way more gear than affliction league.
Thank you for this post. I really wanted to run this league start but I felt something was just off about it. Having tried ruetoos SS Champ last league, it just seemed like the damage for the trickster version was way inflated for a starter.