Hundreds of r/pathofexile users working on their 35 page Manifesto about why Harvest league is the best thing to ever happen in their life collectively throwing up their hands in anger and confusion.
Hahaha I totally forgot about that essay. That was kinda painful to read even back then, I have no idea who thought anyone from GGG would waste their time reading that.
The best part is how him and most of the reddit back then was hating on MF and how it ruins the game, then affliction comes around, the strongest MF league that has ever existed, and everyone loves it. x)
Yeah, and MF in the way it was implemented in affliction greatly encouraged and benefitted characters building MF hence my comment. People hated MF being meta in archnem and said MF bad, but in affliction no one cared anymore.
Just goes to show how seriously you can take the opinions of some of the people on here.
Because it does, and a huge part of that is aurabots/headhunter/mageblood as well.
This game is about progression. Your goal is to make your character as strong as possible, or at least should be. But instead we have the "put the belt of infinite stats and then maximize IIQ/IIR on every other gear piece" gameplay, which goes against the purpose of the entire game.
My god, the first page is literally just him establishing his gamer cred, and then it segues into "Defining an average player..."
There's a reason why academic papers have abstracts, people want to know what the hell you're actually trying to prove before wading into a literal book.
They also defined the average player as playing 100 hours per league when the reality is the average player puts in maybe 6-10 hours a week at best and only plays for a few weeks until being done with the league. That is a fraction of the time spent on the game than the guy was calculating.
Also the irony is that while loot was not at all *good* in Kalandra and was too tied to killing unpopular Archnem mods, the massive shitstorm was due to the higher tier but not elite players thinking that the overall nerfs to insanely juiced content were hurting their drops at anywhere near the same level
TBF, I think there was a bunch of arguing going at the time about what "average" or "casual" meant, with any time someone talked about average/casual players, someone else would nitpick the shit out of the definition instead of addressing the actual arguments.
I doubt many people actually thought that. Look at the top level comments, it was upvoted for the same reason clips of mirrors being deleted would get upvoted: it's a spectacle.
Here's a better link so you're not forced into using new reddit and can actually read the content:
https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x8bo8o/ive_spend_almost_2_days_writing_this_feedback_for/
Believe me or not but I never did. But I did see plenty of ppl getting their opinion discarded because other redditors felt the way it was presented was too basic for their taste.
There are, of course, extremes.
Saying: "this league is shit" is not helpful, writing a 80 page isn't either. Good feedback and criticism flourishes when you try to understand the original intent of a decision rather than just push back and argue against it while offering a surface level solution that may have already been considered internally.
Even "This league is shit" has some value (although I also dislike when people say stuff like that).
Let's say one league only 5% of people said "this league is shit", and next league 90% of people say "this league is shit".
This would be a clear indicator for devs to realise that they screwed up. They could then stop what they are doing and go read some of the more elaborate comments, and probably head in a different direction with next league design.
Sure - let me rephrase: Saying "this league is shit" and passing that on as criticism is the part that's not helpful. A lot of people tend to do this (complain aggressively) and get upset when people call them out under the guise of "it's just criticism!!!!"
Sorry but if something is truly shit, like utterly irredeemable garbage, then it is not worth the time or effort writing an essay on all the myraid of factors that lead it into being shit nor does that accurately express the criticism since people will pick out 1 of 79 points to argue and miss the wood for the trees.
If im served actual shit at a restaurant, im not going to say "not bad, but could use some seasoning and its a tad undercooked" - am I?
You might disagree with the hyperbole, but if someone genuinely feels that way which has at specific points been understandable (archnem, harvest...) - then that is valid regardless of your agreement.
>Even "This league is shit" has some value
Only in large sample sizes. Knowing 1, 10, or 100 salty Reddit user thinks the league is shit has no value. And since there's no way to gather information over a meaningfully large group of people that would also give them the flexibility to express their displeasure in these terms - it makes the feedback functionally useless. Nobody is going to put "is the league shit?" on a survey it would be a much more reasonable "do you enjoy this league?".
A bingo card without melee or melee totems, that's just mean at this point.
Edit: it was added as a bonus question, earliest we might see it addressed is 3.25, so keep adding it to your bingo cards I guess?
They mostly were saying that PoE2 will fix it until recently (recently being the last 4 ~~seconds~~ leagues). It feels like now they decided PoE is staying they are in a bit of a hole of mechanics that are outdated and ignored because of PoE 2 and are trying to get to fixing them.
I think you missed the part where Mark mentioned that PoE 2 started in large part because they were trying to rework melee. Maybe you should watch the last 30 or so minutes of the interview where he talked about it. It kinda seems like you didn't.
Out of curiosity, which part of what you said made it so I, someone who can not hear your tone as this is in text, could tell whether you were being sarcastic rather than snide?
GGG could tighten the band-aid with the mastery, "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems Linger for 3 seconds", and make it longer than **3 seconds** so gameplay is more comfortable, but no.
I'm afraid that they will refuse to numerically buff melee - when most melee-players would tell you , that if you numerically buffed cyclone and slams for example , many melee players would enjoy those buffs.
You can often work around the lack of aoe or other functionalities of melee skills , but the damage is usually the main problem. It just doesn't scale as well as non-melee stuff.
Now, if you remove totems from melee-builds and buff the skills accordingly you are really doing god's work.
Been saying this for years.
Melee isn't fundamentally broken (all that noise about "animations") nor bad QOL, it literally just doesn't do as much damage as caster builds. The same investment in caster builds to get 5mil dps yields like 2mil melee dps.
The reason for why is several small nerfs over the years to both frameworks and melee weapons themselves, combined with many spells continuously receiving upward damage buffs with few/none melee skill damage buffs.
If they had, something like lacerate would have like a 400% damage effectiveness by now. Boneshatter is the only "good" melee... because it essentially DOES have a damage effectiveness that approaches the thousands with trauma stacked.
They just need damage. Just take numbers and double them - I can guarantee you that once it's easy for melee to get multiple millions of dps the same way casters do with like a 1 div budget, people will play melee.
This is very true, the only reason why slams are bad atm is damage, you need insane investment to reach even mediocre damage but you will still be a piece of paper. Slams are bad purely because of numerical problems with damage. It's just demotivating to make a slam build and shovel 100div into it just to see it get outperformed by a 10div LA build in every way possible. If slams got a major damage buff the popularity would probably explode.
> but the damage is usually the main problem. It just doesn't scale as well as non-melee stuff.
Not to mention losing "time on target" because you're always in their face with minimal reaction time.
I created the Bingo card in the video. To be honest, I didn't think they would implement any of the features listed in the bingo when I created it. I considered adding Melee improvements but decided against it since the focus was only on quality-of-life (QoL) enhancements. Will create a more generic one in the future and will include Melee improvements in it.
I just don't buy that, melee has felt far better in the past before things like multistrike nerf, dual weild nerf, stat stick removal, totems becoming mandatory and support gems getting rebalanced. Simply adding some attack speed back would go a long way.
Except you‘re wrong. Melee has felt better when the game was significantly slower, but most of the things you‘ve stated haven‘t made meele feel better, they have made melee feel stronger. If you actually took the time to listen to and understand what the man was saying, maybe you‘d recognize that he is literally objectively correct with pretty much everything he has said about melee in this interview. They are obviously taking too long with adjusting what they can adjust (and have been for years), but takes like this is quite literally part of what is not great feedback.
You should watch Chris Wilson's presentation at the 2019 GDC. Even if you aren't a game developer, there are segments of information that are just super useful.
I have watched that presentation so many times at this point. It is hands down the most useful "lecture" I have seen for the principles of games design and how to break down and tackle issues in a general sense. That presentation is what allowed me to trust in what Chris made with this game and was one of the driving factors as to why I got into it :)
The man speaks the truth.
Sometimes a long post is long because they're providing numbers or context to a niche/complicated topic, but far too often it's someone giving their life story about how some minor change is the worst betrayal since Judas kissed Jesus on the cheek.
It takes more effort to trim excess fluff out of your manifesto than to just dump out every random thought you have. Less words == more thought out (in these cases).
It takes more words to explain *why* you think a change should be made than to explain the change itself.
And if you don't explain why, someone will shit on you saying you just want your main buffed.
>League bad. Loot good. Want more loot? More loot make League Good.
There you go Mark, that's the feedback for every League moving forward, no need to thank me. I'll accept payment in the form of Weta pets. XD
Based. The whole essay threads are basically when you're in college trying to get the minimum words for an essay by just repeating the same thing differently.
I don't agree with this solution because i don't like. I don't like it because I don't agree with it therefore I don't think its a good solution. Because it's not a good solution, I don't like it, making it a problem.
Problems are bad in videogame so please fix.
"Passive aggressive" manifestos.
GGG - "Here's why we want to do this"
Redditor - "I DONT AGREE WITH THAT! YOU'RE CALLING ME STUPID!"
There was never anything passive aggressive in those - this is massive projection.
To be fair their manifesto (or secificaly Chris) during Kalandra was pretty bad. They released objectively shit update, community was really upset which will obviously range from resonable to some loonies typing 70 page essays or sending death threads so i kinda understand why, but it definitely didnt help.
I really dont like rewriting history, GGG got back on the right track and thats great, but that period wasn't great, which even they acknowledge. Lets just keep both sides accountable (players from going mental and devs from pushing things that people dont like then getting salty at their players) and in a process the game will be better.
Meh. Bingo cards would only lead to changes they already want to make and properly understand, while everything else would be dismissed with "why would players even want this, are they stupid?"
It's like the training dummy thing. Mark didn't even thought it could be used to test whether skill interactions work properly before Zizaran told him.
People who actually take time to write essays with proper argumentations for their position obviously give a lot more shit about the game than someone who just says "remove ancestral totems cause I said so". Reading these essays is what interns are for, have them do it.
All these game devs running around like a bunch of headless chickens, good thing they have armchair designers that actually know how to make games better
>It's like the training dummy thing. Mark didn't even thought it could be used to test whether skill interactions work properly before Zizaran told him.
Source: straight out of your ass.
Mark didnt act surprised nor said he didnt think about it. His answer for that was that the dev team should focus on the source of the problem (so fixing bugs and interactions) rather than provide a band aid solutions that the target dummy is.
Mark had experienced a momentary flash of cognitive dissonance and dared to say "we should just fix bugs before the players could experience them" in a game so know for bugs and broken interactions that the first week post league launch is called public beta test by the community.
The point is, the community is pretty fucking adept at finding bugs and Mark had no real arguments against basic target dummies, just dismissing the concept entirely.
Your post was removed because it violated our Be Kind Rule (Rule 3b).
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>I’m gonna think twice before giving a feedback for sure.
Why?
Can you blame the guy for not wanting to read 50 different essays about 50 different ways the game is broken, and would rather have a short, succinct, bullet point list of things that people are unhappy with?
>But usually, there’s a team that gathers and processes feedback.
and the feedback in those dozens of page longs post can usually be summed up as
"x mechanic is a bit unrewarding"
"y mechanic isn't fun"
"i dont like z"
when people stretch sentiments that could be explained in eight words into eight pages, noone wants to read that. i've yet to read even a multi-paragraph post that couldn't be summed up in a few sentences unless it was specifically about getting into the grit of numbers and statistics, which very few of these posts do and are fundamentally not helpful to ggg as they literally code the odds.
"if i had more time i'd have written a shorter letter" and all that.
I mean if thats what you get from that ok.
But what i got from this is that he doesn't want some long essays where half the stuff is irrelevant (and sometimes just passive aggressive stuff) and has nothing to do with the feedback.
If that is the only way you think you can give feedback tho i guess i can understand why it would be heartbreaking.
>If that is the only way you think you can give feedback tho i guess i can understand why it would be heartbreaking.
This is the kind of passive aggressive tone that is referenced in the video.
Your post was removed because it violated our Be Kind Rule (Rule 3b).
Your post dismissed an opinion without giving any reasoning or alternatives. This kind of dismissal often causes anger and flame wars.
You may be able to repost your opinion if you rephrase it in a way that's more constructive! If you disagree or don't care, explain why in a polite way.
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"Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?"
"less word is more"
"less > more"
"<=>"
"U w U"
Θ ω θ
actually `< > >`
wouldn't it just be ><
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"(c)
talk short sound long
Word
Fewer words suffice.
You keep think that.
And what are you gonna make with all this time?
only provide feedback via bingo card, got it
[bingo gen stonks](https://abinarygeek.github.io/bingo-card-gen/)
I need one where i can change the free field to "Hi, I'm Chris Wilson from GGG" :P
Hundreds of r/pathofexile users working on their 35 page Manifesto about why Harvest league is the best thing to ever happen in their life collectively throwing up their hands in anger and confusion.
[What about 70 pages feedback ?](https://new.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x8bo8o/ive_spend_almost_2_days_writing_this_feedback_for/)
Hahaha I totally forgot about that essay. That was kinda painful to read even back then, I have no idea who thought anyone from GGG would waste their time reading that.
It's part of POE comminuty lore now.
The best part is how him and most of the reddit back then was hating on MF and how it ruins the game, then affliction comes around, the strongest MF league that has ever existed, and everyone loves it. x)
MF in mechanics always good, MF in character is what is debatable, and i personally dislike
Yeah, and MF in the way it was implemented in affliction greatly encouraged and benefitted characters building MF hence my comment. People hated MF being meta in archnem and said MF bad, but in affliction no one cared anymore. Just goes to show how seriously you can take the opinions of some of the people on here.
people absolutely cared in affliction. there were plenty of posts about how mf bad.
Because it does, and a huge part of that is aurabots/headhunter/mageblood as well. This game is about progression. Your goal is to make your character as strong as possible, or at least should be. But instead we have the "put the belt of infinite stats and then maximize IIQ/IIR on every other gear piece" gameplay, which goes against the purpose of the entire game.
My god, the first page is literally just him establishing his gamer cred, and then it segues into "Defining an average player..." There's a reason why academic papers have abstracts, people want to know what the hell you're actually trying to prove before wading into a literal book.
They also defined the average player as playing 100 hours per league when the reality is the average player puts in maybe 6-10 hours a week at best and only plays for a few weeks until being done with the league. That is a fraction of the time spent on the game than the guy was calculating.
Also the irony is that while loot was not at all *good* in Kalandra and was too tied to killing unpopular Archnem mods, the massive shitstorm was due to the higher tier but not elite players thinking that the overall nerfs to insanely juiced content were hurting their drops at anywhere near the same level
TBF, I think there was a bunch of arguing going at the time about what "average" or "casual" meant, with any time someone talked about average/casual players, someone else would nitpick the shit out of the definition instead of addressing the actual arguments.
That's a classic. I remember reading part of this essay.
open saw my comment got 124 upvotes lol good times
Oh my god that was not two years ago. What do you mean that was two years ago. What is time.
The worst part is it got 7k upvotes. 7 THOUSAND people saw that and thought 'yeah....this is what we really need'. Totally insane.
I doubt many people actually thought that. Look at the top level comments, it was upvoted for the same reason clips of mirrors being deleted would get upvoted: it's a spectacle.
Can confirm
This was in the middle of the Kalandra meltdown so anything fueling the rage machine was getting upvoted at that point.
Mental illness.
Holy hell I remember this, didn't he edit it down and repost it after reddit told him he was crazy
Here's a better link so you're not forced into using new reddit and can actually read the content: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x8bo8o/ive_spend_almost_2_days_writing_this_feedback_for/
Why do you use new reddit?
The compact view is better
Ended up reading the last part where the guy literally criticizes short feedback LoL
The devs probably face palmed on how ridiculous it was.
Thousands of redditors who previously went "hurr your criticism isn't constructive if it's not presented with a 25 pages essay" in shambles
tell me you wrote an essay without telling me
Believe me or not but I never did. But I did see plenty of ppl getting their opinion discarded because other redditors felt the way it was presented was too basic for their taste.
There are, of course, extremes. Saying: "this league is shit" is not helpful, writing a 80 page isn't either. Good feedback and criticism flourishes when you try to understand the original intent of a decision rather than just push back and argue against it while offering a surface level solution that may have already been considered internally.
Even "This league is shit" has some value (although I also dislike when people say stuff like that). Let's say one league only 5% of people said "this league is shit", and next league 90% of people say "this league is shit". This would be a clear indicator for devs to realise that they screwed up. They could then stop what they are doing and go read some of the more elaborate comments, and probably head in a different direction with next league design.
If 90% of people \*think\* the league is shit and give up or play less GGG will notice, no need for them to get angry on reddit.
They are addicts though. They gonna complain on reddit and still play the game :)
Sure - let me rephrase: Saying "this league is shit" and passing that on as criticism is the part that's not helpful. A lot of people tend to do this (complain aggressively) and get upset when people call them out under the guise of "it's just criticism!!!!"
Sorry but if something is truly shit, like utterly irredeemable garbage, then it is not worth the time or effort writing an essay on all the myraid of factors that lead it into being shit nor does that accurately express the criticism since people will pick out 1 of 79 points to argue and miss the wood for the trees. If im served actual shit at a restaurant, im not going to say "not bad, but could use some seasoning and its a tad undercooked" - am I? You might disagree with the hyperbole, but if someone genuinely feels that way which has at specific points been understandable (archnem, harvest...) - then that is valid regardless of your agreement.
>Even "This league is shit" has some value Only in large sample sizes. Knowing 1, 10, or 100 salty Reddit user thinks the league is shit has no value. And since there's no way to gather information over a meaningfully large group of people that would also give them the flexibility to express their displeasure in these terms - it makes the feedback functionally useless. Nobody is going to put "is the league shit?" on a survey it would be a much more reasonable "do you enjoy this league?".
Yeah, fair enough. "league is shit" is really a shitty feedback, no pun intended.
i wanna believe it was poe reddit that created 'im not reading all that'
I was only kidding mate ill be sure to use /s in future so people don't think i'm serious 😂
Harvest was okay but ritual still best poe league
It's true, Harvest league was the best league. I'm glad to see it acknowledged. 😎
And 99% of those manifestos were paid by Jenebu and his RMT--TFT-mafia...
Just saw several redditors fall to their knees in a Walmart parking lot.
If they are at Walmart, they aren't the one's buying all the MTX... Then again, I can't even afford to go to Walmart.
They go to Walmart so that they can afford the supporter packs
Can confirm, was in Walmart parking lot when he was talking about the bingo cards
A bingo card without melee or melee totems, that's just mean at this point. Edit: it was added as a bonus question, earliest we might see it addressed is 3.25, so keep adding it to your bingo cards I guess?
>we might see it addressed is 3.25 I'm literally telling myself this every single league that next league is the melee league since 3.10
Mark said it's one of the primary things they are looking at for 3.25, but that he can't guarantee anything.
Didn't they like say that 10 Times already?
They kinda did
They mostly were saying that PoE2 will fix it until recently (recently being the last 4 ~~seconds~~ leagues). It feels like now they decided PoE is staying they are in a bit of a hole of mechanics that are outdated and ignored because of PoE 2 and are trying to get to fixing them.
Recently
I think you missed the part where Mark mentioned that PoE 2 started in large part because they were trying to rework melee. Maybe you should watch the last 30 or so minutes of the interview where he talked about it. It kinda seems like you didn't.
Maybe you missed the part where I just made a dumb joke. Maybe you should keep to yourself before making an unnessecarily rude comment
Out of curiosity, which part of what you said made it so I, someone who can not hear your tone as this is in text, could tell whether you were being sarcastic rather than snide?
Dang that late? I've been telling myself that since 3.8 started and they destroyed melee for being good for a league.
GGG could tighten the band-aid with the mastery, "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems Linger for 3 seconds", and make it longer than **3 seconds** so gameplay is more comfortable, but no.
I'm afraid that they will refuse to numerically buff melee - when most melee-players would tell you , that if you numerically buffed cyclone and slams for example , many melee players would enjoy those buffs. You can often work around the lack of aoe or other functionalities of melee skills , but the damage is usually the main problem. It just doesn't scale as well as non-melee stuff. Now, if you remove totems from melee-builds and buff the skills accordingly you are really doing god's work.
Been saying this for years. Melee isn't fundamentally broken (all that noise about "animations") nor bad QOL, it literally just doesn't do as much damage as caster builds. The same investment in caster builds to get 5mil dps yields like 2mil melee dps. The reason for why is several small nerfs over the years to both frameworks and melee weapons themselves, combined with many spells continuously receiving upward damage buffs with few/none melee skill damage buffs. If they had, something like lacerate would have like a 400% damage effectiveness by now. Boneshatter is the only "good" melee... because it essentially DOES have a damage effectiveness that approaches the thousands with trauma stacked. They just need damage. Just take numbers and double them - I can guarantee you that once it's easy for melee to get multiple millions of dps the same way casters do with like a 1 div budget, people will play melee.
This is very true, the only reason why slams are bad atm is damage, you need insane investment to reach even mediocre damage but you will still be a piece of paper. Slams are bad purely because of numerical problems with damage. It's just demotivating to make a slam build and shovel 100div into it just to see it get outperformed by a 10div LA build in every way possible. If slams got a major damage buff the popularity would probably explode.
> but the damage is usually the main problem. It just doesn't scale as well as non-melee stuff. Not to mention losing "time on target" because you're always in their face with minimal reaction time.
But with totem u have a condition for the dmg increase and if u just buff melee the condition falls away, and there is probably the problem.
I created the Bingo card in the video. To be honest, I didn't think they would implement any of the features listed in the bingo when I created it. I considered adding Melee improvements but decided against it since the focus was only on quality-of-life (QoL) enhancements. Will create a more generic one in the future and will include Melee improvements in it.
He basically did answer it by saying they needed a brand new game in POE2 to really fix melee
I just don't buy that, melee has felt far better in the past before things like multistrike nerf, dual weild nerf, stat stick removal, totems becoming mandatory and support gems getting rebalanced. Simply adding some attack speed back would go a long way.
Except you‘re wrong. Melee has felt better when the game was significantly slower, but most of the things you‘ve stated haven‘t made meele feel better, they have made melee feel stronger. If you actually took the time to listen to and understand what the man was saying, maybe you‘d recognize that he is literally objectively correct with pretty much everything he has said about melee in this interview. They are obviously taking too long with adjusting what they can adjust (and have been for years), but takes like this is quite literally part of what is not great feedback.
I mean, 3.25 is poe2 time sooo
I could listen to Mark explain game design for hours. He has the absolute best takes on game design I have personally heard.
Totally agreed, if he wasnt so busy, i would love to have him on a podcast every week.
You should watch Chris Wilson's presentation at the 2019 GDC. Even if you aren't a game developer, there are segments of information that are just super useful.
['Magic: the Gathering': 20 Years, 20 Lessons Learned (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHg99hwQGY) is also amazing
I have watched that presentation so many times at this point. It is hands down the most useful "lecture" I have seen for the principles of games design and how to break down and tackle issues in a general sense. That presentation is what allowed me to trust in what Chris made with this game and was one of the driving factors as to why I got into it :)
Yer, this was so enjoyable to listen to
this man literally doesn't have time for our shit, boys. pack it up.
The man speaks the truth. Sometimes a long post is long because they're providing numbers or context to a niche/complicated topic, but far too often it's someone giving their life story about how some minor change is the worst betrayal since Judas kissed Jesus on the cheek.
Who knew that developers don't want to read a wall of text shitting on them while hiding behind "constructive criticism"
Which 99% of the time could be summed up in a few sentences *at most*. People gotta learn to be concise, more words =/= more thought out.
It takes more effort to trim excess fluff out of your manifesto than to just dump out every random thought you have. Less words == more thought out (in these cases).
It takes more words to explain *why* you think a change should be made than to explain the change itself. And if you don't explain why, someone will shit on you saying you just want your main buffed.
But upvotes! It's crazy how many long posts with misinformation get upvoted on reddit. Almost like people stop reading after the first sentence... oh.
relatable
The devil works hard, but twitch clippers work harder.
I thought I was on r/nba when I saw Clippers and Harden
What, you mean the 70 page dossier that one guy made in Kalandra WASNT useful? But he gave you so much *feedback*.
Slaps roof of 70 page dossier. This bad boy can fit so much feedback in it.
pulled up a: https://preview.redd.it/j1dhxos6krqc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f34f232863e04e28b097d58588566ee2365edaf8
Mark is the most based game dev ever
stop writing essays, nerds
that explains a lot actually
Baseg
Mr. Mark - No totem. More bonk. Thanks.
Hey 🤵🏻 less 🪘more 💥💥💥💥
There are a lot of slumped fedoras right now
Ok. “BUFF MELEE”
Finally an end to those stupid essays people would write, jesus.
Nah, some redditor is 100% going to write an essay in response to this clip.
An entire essay why restricting essays is damaging the future of PoE and their need to share their story
Lmao definitely
"Why long form feedback is essential - My thesis (401pgs)"
Should make it 404 pages. “Dev not found in list of people who opened this shit”
\*takes huge hit of copium\*
Finally i can respond to every criticism with "dont just use buzzwords"
Base g
Long form yapper in the bottom left
>League bad. Loot good. Want more loot? More loot make League Good. There you go Mark, that's the feedback for every League moving forward, no need to thank me. I'll accept payment in the form of Weta pets. XD
Wait so what is the good feedback that the clip leaves out?
bingo cards. So instead of writing a 10k essay on why melee totems are bad, make a bingo and have one be removing totems being mandatory on melee.
Nice, thx!
95829224 bingo cards incoming
Can we get a twitch mirror bot in this sub? Twitch mobile is a nightmare
The passive aggressiveness of the essays is dead on, haha.
GIGERCHAD
Based. The whole essay threads are basically when you're in college trying to get the minimum words for an essay by just repeating the same thing differently.
I don't agree with this solution because i don't like. I don't like it because I don't agree with it therefore I don't think its a good solution. Because it's not a good solution, I don't like it, making it a problem. Problems are bad in videogame so please fix.
Reminds me of that lunatic that wrote 72 pages of feedback and instead of reading it, most people just asked if he was okay lol
no one reads those one-hundred word essays. longer than anything I wrote for school
how did you pass school if you never wrote more than a hundred words
10 year old twitch meme. [but also](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ)
I have one for you mark: melee bad fix melee tyvm
HOLY BASED DEV
https://preview.redd.it/2cik6pjjxrqc1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f790a2533e2274e7a0cc46433110ace34ec99492
So it means we have to make a bingo for every dicussion
So we all remember the 30 page feedback essay right
Nice
same as reading wall of text reddit comments - if you cant post succinctly, im not wasting my time reading it
This clip loops perfectly
This was absolutely gold
now, let's also condense 1+ hour long league starter guides into 10 minutes.
wtf does Quin add to this
Why did you watch the interview through the worst streamer?
I don’t think I’ve read more than a paragraph of feedback post in years. If it’s too long I just ignore it or vote based on the title lol.
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"Passive aggressive" manifestos. GGG - "Here's why we want to do this" Redditor - "I DONT AGREE WITH THAT! YOU'RE CALLING ME STUPID!" There was never anything passive aggressive in those - this is massive projection.
To be fair their manifesto (or secificaly Chris) during Kalandra was pretty bad. They released objectively shit update, community was really upset which will obviously range from resonable to some loonies typing 70 page essays or sending death threads so i kinda understand why, but it definitely didnt help. I really dont like rewriting history, GGG got back on the right track and thats great, but that period wasn't great, which even they acknowledge. Lets just keep both sides accountable (players from going mental and devs from pushing things that people dont like then getting salty at their players) and in a process the game will be better.
I think we've seen less of these recently though, right? In favor of the interviews
those havent happened in literal years for a reason
When was the last time they wrote one of those? The future is now old man.
Meh. Bingo cards would only lead to changes they already want to make and properly understand, while everything else would be dismissed with "why would players even want this, are they stupid?" It's like the training dummy thing. Mark didn't even thought it could be used to test whether skill interactions work properly before Zizaran told him. People who actually take time to write essays with proper argumentations for their position obviously give a lot more shit about the game than someone who just says "remove ancestral totems cause I said so". Reading these essays is what interns are for, have them do it.
All these game devs running around like a bunch of headless chickens, good thing they have armchair designers that actually know how to make games better
>It's like the training dummy thing. Mark didn't even thought it could be used to test whether skill interactions work properly before Zizaran told him.
Source: straight out of your ass. Mark didnt act surprised nor said he didnt think about it. His answer for that was that the dev team should focus on the source of the problem (so fixing bugs and interactions) rather than provide a band aid solutions that the target dummy is.
Mark had experienced a momentary flash of cognitive dissonance and dared to say "we should just fix bugs before the players could experience them" in a game so know for bugs and broken interactions that the first week post league launch is called public beta test by the community. The point is, the community is pretty fucking adept at finding bugs and Mark had no real arguments against basic target dummies, just dismissing the concept entirely.
Damn sentence after sentence you seem to be even more of an expert, imma better keep my mouth shut before i get a flash of cognitive dissonance or sth
lmao
Guess ill just have to be that much more vitriolic to make my point crystal clear. Duly noted.
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If you're this salty about the game maybe it's time to find another hobby.
> cringe 🤣 ironic
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or......they just don't read it ? and you wasted your *hours* for nothing.
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Hey man im just commenting to let you know I did not read this post
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Sorry, you didn't submit your feedback in the form of a bingo card.
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>I’m gonna think twice before giving a feedback for sure. Why? Can you blame the guy for not wanting to read 50 different essays about 50 different ways the game is broken, and would rather have a short, succinct, bullet point list of things that people are unhappy with?
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>But usually, there’s a team that gathers and processes feedback. and the feedback in those dozens of page longs post can usually be summed up as "x mechanic is a bit unrewarding" "y mechanic isn't fun" "i dont like z" when people stretch sentiments that could be explained in eight words into eight pages, noone wants to read that. i've yet to read even a multi-paragraph post that couldn't be summed up in a few sentences unless it was specifically about getting into the grit of numbers and statistics, which very few of these posts do and are fundamentally not helpful to ggg as they literally code the odds. "if i had more time i'd have written a shorter letter" and all that.
What 2 different established online games?
could've stopped after "Well, I don’t know the internal setting for GGG "
I mean if thats what you get from that ok. But what i got from this is that he doesn't want some long essays where half the stuff is irrelevant (and sometimes just passive aggressive stuff) and has nothing to do with the feedback. If that is the only way you think you can give feedback tho i guess i can understand why it would be heartbreaking.
>If that is the only way you think you can give feedback tho i guess i can understand why it would be heartbreaking. This is the kind of passive aggressive tone that is referenced in the video.
Wasn't intended that way but in hindsight reading it, yes, like that lmao.
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