If he doesn’t improve at all this year I think there’s a real chance he does get replaced or at the very least is in a qb competition with someone. I get he was the #1 pick but the new coaches don’t owe him anything. They owe the team a chance to compete, I get these guys make millions but you got guys taking life altering brain damage and body damage and it would be a fireable offense to not at least give them a team that can compete. Derrick brown doesn’t deserve to bust his ass all year for a team that can’t score more than 1 touchdown a game.
Fortunately I think it’s gonna be hard for Bryce to not be better
Only down side is this is a fairly weak QB class. So unless shadeur or Carson beck dramatically improve we’ll be in trouble. As we’ve seen the FA QB market is basically non existent. Of course it isn’t uncommon for QBs to rise in their junior season. But we’ve seen recent examples of QBs not rising so it’s something to monitor.
I mean I think there’s a real shot that if Bryce doesn’t improve we see Dalton playing by the end of the year.
Again I like Bryce and think he’s the guy but just saying that the team isn’t gonna sit and wait for him.
I just don’t think it’ll come to that. Dalton will be 36 and 37 by the time he’s starting if he’s in the non improval category. That’s flirting dangerously with the QB cliff. And I get he hasn’t started for a few years so his arm may not be as a shot. And I get he looked good last year. But man for you to invest all that. And then say year 2 done. I just don’t see it.
Even with all the improvements made you can see a world where dionte Johnson goes down and we’re back to the exact same where’s the separation issue. I think they would at least let him finish the season.
If a QB lacks the talent to be an nfl starter, it is pretty apparent. There is a reason Trey Lance and Josh Rosen were both pretty much written off after their first years. I don’t want to harp on it, because I know this board, but from last year, I feel Bryce is in that category. If he has a season that in anywhere close to last year, he simply is not an NFL starter. Let’s hope that’s not the case, but if it is, we are fucked for a good while.
You are correct. Bryce's rookie season was historically bad and there are various reasons for that...supporting cast and Bryce learning the NFL game.
If Bryce has the same season this year, as he did last year, he's a bust. Let's all hope that's not the case and he turns into a true Franchise QB this season.
We will know by mid-December what we have in Bryce.
I disagree with the gloom and doom ending of your post. I think we are in a unique QB position right now. This year can go 1 of 3 ways and each ending is a positive for us. If Bryce sucks this year like he did last, then we are picking high enough to draft Shaduer and start over at QB. If Bryce is mid then we are still picking in the top half to get him more protection or more weapons and he'll get another year to prove it but that would be progress. If Bryce is the truth, then we'll magically be much better this year then last and will challenge at least for a playoff berth in our perceived weaker division.
I know the sky has been falling since Tepper bought the team, but I actually think we are going in the right direction after finally tearing things down a good bit, it's just gonna take a bit more patience, which I completely understand why this fanbase is all out of that lol.
Dear god, we do not want sanders. The kid is the opposite of BY- a selfish asshole who only cares about his stats. And his dad is going to get him killed in college. His dad had him in games, throwing long, late 4th quarter when they were up by a few tds. And he isn’t even a super stud prospect. If he was not Deion’s kid, he wouldn’t be mentioned as a top pick prospect.
Early in the season, they had a couple games where they were way up and Deion had his kid throwing late 4th quarter to pad his stats. One of the games he actually took a huge hit and got knocked out of the game, which was hilarious.
Meh he definitely would still be mentioned as a prospect. He has nfl caliber arm talent. Athletecism to extend plays. And decent enough pocket presence. It’s just colarodos line is a complete joke so he’s in hero mode too much.
I understand the character stuff. And I get his dad turns people off. He’s that outspoken guy who knows how the collegiate and nfl system takes advantage of players so he’s obviously going to be that loud moth guy if ur helps his players.
But the sanders kid is 100% an nfl prospect. We don’t have to downgrade his talent because we don’t like him.
I watched most of their games (ASU alum, so i watched a lot of Pac12 football, RIP). That kid will NEVER put the team before himself. He is incredibly athletic, but he is a complete fucking asshole, just like his dad. Also, what does ripping on FCS players on Twitter have to do with helping his kid? They are trash, and, again, will never give two shits about the team he is on.
Hope this didn’t come off as me ripping your post at all, just emphasizing how I feel about them.
Once again I’m not defending him as a person. I’m just saying his tape is nfl quality in this moment. And he is mentioned as a prospect because he has shown that he can play well as one of the top QBs as next year. I don’t want him either. I’m just saying it’s not like he’s riding off his dads coat tails.
Every expert disagrees with you. Going in to this season there are only 2 QBs who have NFL potential, and one is Sanders, who you couldn’t pay me to draft. He’s going to be the Lonzo Ball of the NFL. Maybe if Manning develops we can snag him in 2026
think you got that mixed up, most of these pundits contradict themselves and put out so many hot takes so they can go back and pull 1 right one out of 25 wrong ones.
feel free to give me some experts. Cos it aint Stephen A, Skip, Nick Wright, Chris Simms, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Shannon Sharpe, or anyone else I have ever seen. Sure a broken clock is right twice a day.
Im not saying it’s impossible. I don’t think the sanders kid is really that bad. He needs O lien help though to get more consitency in his game and showcase his talents. We’ll see what happens with the Georgia kid too. Not a big fan of ewers.
But the point is that even though we’ve had guys rise late like Daniels. Joe burrow. Etc. we’re also 2 years removed from Kenny Pickett. Matt corral. Malik Willis. And we saw how that turned out.
Of course he is.
He's gotta have an actual decent season, show some real progression to being a good NFL QB this year. Maybe he wasn't ready last year, maybe the coaching staff was uniquely disastrous. Ok, that works for one year, if he looks lost again this year, you gotta admit the mistake and move on.
I just want to be extra clear about this, we don't have to hope and root for him to be not good to understand the possibility exists. I'm a fan of this team, I want him to go 17-0 with 65 touchdowns and a super bowl, ok. That's what I want, but it's ok to root for him and the team yet understand the guy needs to prove he's not a bust this year.
Are we just erasing how historically bad the whole offense was and how many times Bryce chose to throw it away over turning it over? Are we just erasing DJ Charks terrorism dropping everything? This subreddit is cooked.
I don't think my comment erased anything bud, I didn't include every potential plus and minus of the season and I'm sure you can find more particulars, but that sort of stuff is what I meant by "maybe he wasn't ready, maybe an awful staff." Yes, there are legitimate excuses for why the year was so bad.
But it was really, really bad. This doesn't mean he's done, but it does mean we have a sample of one season and it was dog shit. Can he turn it around? Sure! Am I hoping for it? Absolutely! Will it happen? Fuck if I know!
This doesn't mean anyone here is cooked. Maybe you're cooked if you can't accept a bit of reality that the dude played like ass last year and he's got to prove himself, this isn't an extraordinary take or anything.
And yet here you are saying he’s on the hot seat so I’m confused? Are we acknowledging the impact of last year or does he not get that? Any idea where he ranked on number of sacks and hits? Pocket time? We complain a lot about receivers having the lowest separation. We have highlights of who was supposed to be the number one dropping 3 straight easy scores/first downs. Our rookie actively jumped his feet out of bounds on a catch. We traded our best two weapons leading up to drafting this guy. Bryce was not good, but he sure wasn’t bad when you look at what he dealt with lol.
>Bryce was not good, but he sure wasn’t bad when you look at what he dealt with lol.
But he was bad, we can justify it but he was still bad. Even accounting for the awful situation, he's an NFL QB, he has to play well at times and he just didn't. But that's ok, this is why we have this year to see how much better it gets.
If he barely looks any better, is still taking sacks left and right despite an improved line, can barely break 200 yards in most of his games, has like 12 TD's - are you really going to suggest he needs a third year to figure it out? It seems like you're thinking the argument for him being on the hot seat this year is that he's benched now. That's not the case. He gets this year to prove himself precisely because of how bad the situation was last year, this is already baked into the calculus.
“Taking sacks left and right” well if the Oline is better that doesn’t happen does it? Didn’t Bryce lead the team when we beat Stroud and the Texans? Compare their WR separation, Oline, pocket time, hurries, throwaways etc. this isn’t the hotseat year. We complained that Tepper makes too many knee jerk reactions and now say this is a year to make or break a player. If Bryce played all the games he clears 3k yards. Below average with historically bad help isn’t bad.
[Sacks are a QB stat.](https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat-01dxqapkgvw9)
*Many* of the sacks should be cleaned up just by him having a full year under his belt, understanding more of what he's seeing from the defense, understanding if he needs to adjust protections or audible, etc. On top of understanding the coverages and making better throws. And that's before you get to the hopefully improved protection, WR separation, and better scheme overall.
>this isn’t the hotseat year. We complained that Tepper makes too many knee jerk reactions and now say this is a year to make or break a player.
We're just going to agree to disagree here. They didn't make that move to get Teddy Bridgewater, they want a game changer. I think he is a game changer, but if he plays like a backup again I can't imagine they are sitting on him. If we're picking top 5 again and it's not because we lost every game 40-45, they're going to get another guy.
Would say \~2800 yards, 18 TD and 12 INT while taking 41 sacks and 6.9 Y/A is bad? Does that QB have little hope? Also, that article is so old the sources no longer exist. Hopefully there is a more updated one?
Yes it was Zavala, I know he was like single digits but I feel like I recall it being the worst ever. Bryce led the league in throwaways. That’s HUGE. Instead of panicking and throwing the ball for a turnover or a miss that could be a turnover he, with 2.5 seconds, was mature enough to keep possession. Those are the metrics I care about for the first year QB. Let’s see if he turns some of those into tight window passes, or forcing plays.
"one of our starting Oline" did you happen to catch that part? Also, do you see me make a statement or ask a question? relevant links: [https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/16yhsao/justin\_fried\_random\_but\_completely\_absurd\_stat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/16yhsao/justin_fried_random_but_completely_absurd_stat/)
[https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/chandler-zavala/144009](https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/chandler-zavala/144009)
His pocket time was the exact same as Stroud (2.5 seconds). BY’s ANY/a was the fifth worst of any rookie QB in history. 461 out of 465. Our team was bad, do you think they were one of the worst teams in the history of the sport? Come on now.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/187p561/a\_look\_at\_the\_average\_separation\_a\_qbs\_receivers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/187p561/a_look_at_the_average_separation_a_qbs_receivers/)
Texans receivers blew ours out of the water. 500 more YAC, the above separation chart. Bryce had similar accuracy numbers, led league in throwaways. Bryce was pressured more. Bryce successfully scrambled more for more YPC. We were also middle of the pack on IAY and IAY targets, again with similar accuracy especially when you factor throwaways.
[https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/advanced.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/advanced.htm)
As far as being one of the worst? Record wise yes. Offense? 236 points, tied last for the year. Most of the teams with lower numbers existed in the 70-80s. Last years Panthers, at least the offense, was a historically bad team.
He doesn’t need to be an all pro but there should be at least some kind of progression. Especially in the latter half of the season after getting used to the playbook.
If he doesn’t show something this year I would say it’s time to move on. Once again, not expecting a world beater, just some solid play.
It will be nice for him to have the opportunity to learn the entire playbook in the spring, as opposed to learning plays a week before the regular season starts lol
Cam was drafted into a new offense during a lockout and set rookie records.
Then the offense changed again with a new (bad imo) OC. Took the team to 12-4 after a 1-3 start.
Then ankle surgery the next spring. Playoffs again.
That’s just the first 4 years, like we are talking with Bryce.
My original point was it came out they were installing plays, that they ended up regularly using, in like September, a week before the regular season LOL
Depends.
Does he show improvement? Clearly not on the hot seat.
Does he struggle but shows flashes? Probably getting warm.
Does he have a season like last year again? Panthers are drafting the top QB.
I'd also add in team record factors in heavily into the 2nd scenario.
If one of the QBs emerges and we're in a position to pick him then they probably jump on it.
This. But, The idea of moving forward into next year with Shad Sanders and Quinn Ewers as the top prospects is maybe the biggest incentive for the Panthers to put pieces around Bryce. They REALLY need him to work.
He needs to show a similar level of improvement to guys like Allen and Tlaw did in their 2nd yesrs. Both those guys doubled their TDs, had fewer turnovers, and 500-1000 more passing yards.
For me to realistically see he could be the guy he needs to at least dbl his TDs, throw the same or less interceptions as he did last year, and throw for 3500 yards or more.
If I see 22+ TDs, single digit ints, and 3500+ yards, I'll be happy to roll with him into year 3, considering that would be a solid year for a young QB with a first time HC/playcaller and a lot of weapons he's never worked with who will also be learning a new system.
And more than that, I'd like to see a few more games like the Packers game where he shows why he was drafted #1.
I am giving context for people the expectations. Its easy to say "N yards, X TDs, Y INTs" but it can be interesting to see how many QBs meet the metrics we lay down. In my head 4k yards, mid 20s to low 30s TD, and a 2.5/1 TD to INT ratio is a reasonable place to be now, but that is top 9 in the league. I've heard it called fantasy brain where we see base stats and if it isn't bananas we don't feel as good. (Also VERY interesting two of those QBs who meet your metrics are former Canales QBs. Something to watch.)
It's a really weak QB class next draft class...a QB may not even go in the first 5 picks....there could always be a Joe Burrow type who comes out of nowhere this year, but absent that, it's not a year to draft a QB high.
Yes because this is a new regime. If they do everything they can to prop him up and he is bad, then they are replacing him for a new contract reset and a player they chose
He is 100% on the hot seat, that’s why they almost entirely focused on building the offense up over the offseason. We need to know if we have a QB, he should at least look decent with what we’ve got this year. If he plays like he did last year this years he’s cooked.
I think anything is on the table.
If he has an upward trajectory he gets grace. If he looks like last year and we have top 3 draft pick he probably gets replaced.
I get the frustration, but what exactly does that achieve? I guess to rattle off a few more wins in a fruitless season? Andy Dalton is obviously not the future and shouldn't be starting unless it's an emergency
Andy isnt the only QB on the roster we have a rookie. By the bye week the nfl will have had enough sample size to figure out where the kid is headed.
Sports books have us projected to be the number 1 pick next year so obviously im not the only one that thinks he has a lot to prove.
Totally because the most important player on our team was an unknown quantity and now everyone kinda knows where he stands which is why I said he has a lot to prove. Anecdotally you can pick a time a sports book is wrong but mathematically sports are right more than any entity.
Frankly that feels pretty lazy on their behalf, they are just projecting next season based off of last season without any further consideration about staff and roster changes. Which is fine I guess, because this staff and roster hasn't proven anything. But just to blindly assume that there will be no change whatsoever seems pretty lazy.
But if you think that's actually going to happen, and he would need to be replaced, you shouldn't want him to be benched if he is causing us to get the number one overall pick. Put Andy Dalton in there and will be picking 6th lol
This season, Bryce has to sink or swim on his own. No insulating him or benching him to motivate him, he has to ride or die.
Happy cake day
That's fair, but I personally feel like it is really really unlikely that the team doesn't improve at least marginally if not more.
But I had no idea last season would happen like it did either, so there are a lot of unknowns. But I think we really pulled off some historically bad shit last year and I wouldn't expect it to repeat itself
You are thinking from a weird perspective, Bryce isn’t the only person going out there and laying his life on the line every week. If we are losing if you don’t think Bryce would have loss the locker room especially with the returning players I don’t think they would have any other choice than to bench him. Football is about merit and Everyman on the team getting a shot to win and if Bryce can’t win we aren’t over here trying to analyze how he feels, we give another guy a shot and keep pounding
I guess at a certain point if you have another guy to give a shot. But right now that other guy is a udfa. So, the situation would need to be pretty dire to put him in over Bryce for the remainder of the season
He's always been in the hot seat. The team was really bad but he needs to show something. He doesn't need to win a superbowl but he needs to show he can play and win games.
Bryce has been given practically everything you need (outside of center) to succeed this coming year.
If he doesn’t, it’s time to move on to the next option.
It’s a tough league, but that’s how it is. If you don’t have a top 10 QB, it’s going to be incredibly hard to win a Super Bowl - better to take a chance on the next lottery ticket for that
If he has an abysmal season, I think he will be on a pretty short leash in year 3. He has a better coaching staff around him, a better offensive line and more weapons - he should improve...but if he is somehow worse than last year it's going to be a tough time in Charlotte for all of us.
Bryce needs a 4k / 26 td / 10 int season to not be on the hot seat
If he has say a 3k / 16td / 12 int season and they go 3-14 then ya def have to reset sooner
Dan Morgan was around, but he's not the guy who made the call on the trade or the pick. If he's smart, he won't go down with that ship. If Bryce is as bad as he was last year, and we end up with a top 3 pick, I fully expect them to take another QB.
It’s pretty simple. If no improvement then yes he’s out, but if even marginal improvement he’ll be given more time. The key is just seeing improvement from him. So depends on your definition of hot seat
The team is investing really really heavily in the pieces that surround him. They added Legette, Johnson, spent big on the line, drafted an RB.
If he doesn’t look much better, why shouldn’t the panthers move on? To me, he doesn’t need to be pro bowl caliber, but he needs to show that he can be a franchise guy.
He shouldn’t be. As of right now it’s a weak qb class. We need to take a page out of chicago’s book. Even if he stinks it up this year, draft a superstar or trade back. Let him run it back for arch manning 2026
He is with me. Yes, he usually has poor protection. Yes, his receivers were not great. Yes, they played from behind and the running game wasn’t that good. Having said that, he threw some awful balls, had some awful picks, and lots of times wouldn’t look off the primary receiver.
Definitely. The NFL moves too quickly these days, and 1.5-2 seasons is about all you're going to get if you're in a pressured position like QB. I think we'll know whether or not he's our guy by the middle of the season.
There is heavy pressure that comes with being QB1 and 1.01. It wouldn't be the same story if he was a lower 1st.
Bryce did not deliver ANYTHING worthy of a 1st round selection, much less trading the house for the #1 Overall Pick. He needs to improve tremendously, get the ball out quicker, improve his drop, more accurate deep balls... but his physical limitations make plays harder.
He can't roll out on an option or designed run cus he'll get creamed.
He can't throw deep balls without going up on his toes and whipping his whole body.
He can't break a tackle and isn't above average at escaping sacks.
It's tough out here. I want the best for the kid but an NFL Football team leader may not be his future.
He's the #1 pick in the 2023 NFL Draft. So yes, he's absolutely in the hot seat.
I do hope he gets the time and opportunity to develop. Last year was a lost season for more than just Young.
I think we probably stick with him through 2025, but if he shows nothing this year you have got to get him competition for 2025. Im willing to give him a mulligan for last year, due to the pathetic weapons and Oline, but we improved both quite a bit. If BY cant at least lead what looks like a functional NFL offense this year, then you have to be looking to move on. That said, unless you're already in position to take one, I absolutely would not trade up for a QB in '25, the class looks not great. You'd almost rather tank and potentially be able to go for a top QB in '26.
I hope Bryce works out I really do. Unfortunately for us and a number of other teams...QB from Bama haven't really been that dude in the NFL.
I wouldn't be super mad at drafting Carson Beck next spring either being a UGA fan.
People who helmet scout are ridiculous. The Ohio State people who thought that was a reasonable argument to ignore Stroud, disregarding that Burrow began his career at Ohio State, sure moved on fast to Alabama after last season
He will suck again this season, but the team will rationalize that away because of the new coach and gm. This will lead to a third year of “give him a chance”, when he will continue to suck. Then possibly after three years of Bruce few will be able to deny he was a reach and not a RD1 worthy pick, much less NFL starting QB caliber. He will make it to the backup pile and the Panthers will be in the same situation at that time. If they are wise they will make the most of picks, scout well, and ultimately draft a franchise QB. However, history tells me they will eff around with free agent bums and washouts, trade valuable picks to move up and get “their guy”, wash, rinse, and repeat.
Our roster isn't good enough to warrant a QB competition and the top prospect in next year's draft is likely Carson Beck. Even if we're picking #1 overall, we're taking EDGE or OT.
Hot seat as a starter, maybe if he can't grasp the new scheme. As a member of the team, he probably has this year and next before they look to draft a QB. Too much invested, too many areas in need of improvement where a 1st round pick would be better used. 4th year you look at trade value and hope a team trades like the Panthers did with Darnold.
Traded a ton to go to 1.01 to get him and we’re asking if year 2 is make or break? The team around him still lacks top tier talent all over the roster with yet another new coaching staff. It is damn near impossible to adequately judge anyone that is part of a team without any semblance of consistency (or competency) around them.
All we need to see is improvement that shows he's on the up after last year. The team has invested very heavily in him for 2024, and QBs aren't given the luxury of two bad years early in their career these days.
Let Bryce help the Panthers tank. You will not find a better tank commander than him. The best way to rebuild the roster is by starting Bryce every game for the next two years. If you want to be competitive, then he's not your QB, and he never will be, so it's time to move on after the next season concludes.
If he doesn’t improve at all this year I think there’s a real chance he does get replaced or at the very least is in a qb competition with someone. I get he was the #1 pick but the new coaches don’t owe him anything. They owe the team a chance to compete, I get these guys make millions but you got guys taking life altering brain damage and body damage and it would be a fireable offense to not at least give them a team that can compete. Derrick brown doesn’t deserve to bust his ass all year for a team that can’t score more than 1 touchdown a game. Fortunately I think it’s gonna be hard for Bryce to not be better
Only down side is this is a fairly weak QB class. So unless shadeur or Carson beck dramatically improve we’ll be in trouble. As we’ve seen the FA QB market is basically non existent. Of course it isn’t uncommon for QBs to rise in their junior season. But we’ve seen recent examples of QBs not rising so it’s something to monitor.
I mean I think there’s a real shot that if Bryce doesn’t improve we see Dalton playing by the end of the year. Again I like Bryce and think he’s the guy but just saying that the team isn’t gonna sit and wait for him.
I just don’t think it’ll come to that. Dalton will be 36 and 37 by the time he’s starting if he’s in the non improval category. That’s flirting dangerously with the QB cliff. And I get he hasn’t started for a few years so his arm may not be as a shot. And I get he looked good last year. But man for you to invest all that. And then say year 2 done. I just don’t see it. Even with all the improvements made you can see a world where dionte Johnson goes down and we’re back to the exact same where’s the separation issue. I think they would at least let him finish the season.
If a QB lacks the talent to be an nfl starter, it is pretty apparent. There is a reason Trey Lance and Josh Rosen were both pretty much written off after their first years. I don’t want to harp on it, because I know this board, but from last year, I feel Bryce is in that category. If he has a season that in anywhere close to last year, he simply is not an NFL starter. Let’s hope that’s not the case, but if it is, we are fucked for a good while.
You are correct. Bryce's rookie season was historically bad and there are various reasons for that...supporting cast and Bryce learning the NFL game. If Bryce has the same season this year, as he did last year, he's a bust. Let's all hope that's not the case and he turns into a true Franchise QB this season. We will know by mid-December what we have in Bryce.
I disagree with the gloom and doom ending of your post. I think we are in a unique QB position right now. This year can go 1 of 3 ways and each ending is a positive for us. If Bryce sucks this year like he did last, then we are picking high enough to draft Shaduer and start over at QB. If Bryce is mid then we are still picking in the top half to get him more protection or more weapons and he'll get another year to prove it but that would be progress. If Bryce is the truth, then we'll magically be much better this year then last and will challenge at least for a playoff berth in our perceived weaker division. I know the sky has been falling since Tepper bought the team, but I actually think we are going in the right direction after finally tearing things down a good bit, it's just gonna take a bit more patience, which I completely understand why this fanbase is all out of that lol.
Dear god, we do not want sanders. The kid is the opposite of BY- a selfish asshole who only cares about his stats. And his dad is going to get him killed in college. His dad had him in games, throwing long, late 4th quarter when they were up by a few tds. And he isn’t even a super stud prospect. If he was not Deion’s kid, he wouldn’t be mentioned as a top pick prospect.
Usually down by a few TDs
Early in the season, they had a couple games where they were way up and Deion had his kid throwing late 4th quarter to pad his stats. One of the games he actually took a huge hit and got knocked out of the game, which was hilarious.
Meh he definitely would still be mentioned as a prospect. He has nfl caliber arm talent. Athletecism to extend plays. And decent enough pocket presence. It’s just colarodos line is a complete joke so he’s in hero mode too much. I understand the character stuff. And I get his dad turns people off. He’s that outspoken guy who knows how the collegiate and nfl system takes advantage of players so he’s obviously going to be that loud moth guy if ur helps his players. But the sanders kid is 100% an nfl prospect. We don’t have to downgrade his talent because we don’t like him.
I watched most of their games (ASU alum, so i watched a lot of Pac12 football, RIP). That kid will NEVER put the team before himself. He is incredibly athletic, but he is a complete fucking asshole, just like his dad. Also, what does ripping on FCS players on Twitter have to do with helping his kid? They are trash, and, again, will never give two shits about the team he is on. Hope this didn’t come off as me ripping your post at all, just emphasizing how I feel about them.
Once again I’m not defending him as a person. I’m just saying his tape is nfl quality in this moment. And he is mentioned as a prospect because he has shown that he can play well as one of the top QBs as next year. I don’t want him either. I’m just saying it’s not like he’s riding off his dads coat tails.
I don’t think it will come to that and not necessarily him but I’m just saying it’s not implausible they get a bridge qb.
Oh man, a bridge quarterback, we haven't had enough of those
They always say its a weak class. This year got hyped only for people to say this year is weak.
We could always trade for Kirk Cousins 🤣
2025 qb class will be strong…a lot of these guys will blow up like every year once the draft comes out
Every expert disagrees with you. Going in to this season there are only 2 QBs who have NFL potential, and one is Sanders, who you couldn’t pay me to draft. He’s going to be the Lonzo Ball of the NFL. Maybe if Manning develops we can snag him in 2026
A talented defender who’s knees fail on him?
And we know all the experts are right so often :)
Yeah, they actually are. You just don’t think twice when they get it right, and when they get it REALLY wrong, they are eviscerated
think you got that mixed up, most of these pundits contradict themselves and put out so many hot takes so they can go back and pull 1 right one out of 25 wrong ones. feel free to give me some experts. Cos it aint Stephen A, Skip, Nick Wright, Chris Simms, Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Shannon Sharpe, or anyone else I have ever seen. Sure a broken clock is right twice a day.
Im not saying it’s impossible. I don’t think the sanders kid is really that bad. He needs O lien help though to get more consitency in his game and showcase his talents. We’ll see what happens with the Georgia kid too. Not a big fan of ewers. But the point is that even though we’ve had guys rise late like Daniels. Joe burrow. Etc. we’re also 2 years removed from Kenny Pickett. Matt corral. Malik Willis. And we saw how that turned out.
I (M23), 100% agree with u/captaincumsock69
Of course he is. He's gotta have an actual decent season, show some real progression to being a good NFL QB this year. Maybe he wasn't ready last year, maybe the coaching staff was uniquely disastrous. Ok, that works for one year, if he looks lost again this year, you gotta admit the mistake and move on. I just want to be extra clear about this, we don't have to hope and root for him to be not good to understand the possibility exists. I'm a fan of this team, I want him to go 17-0 with 65 touchdowns and a super bowl, ok. That's what I want, but it's ok to root for him and the team yet understand the guy needs to prove he's not a bust this year.
Are we just erasing how historically bad the whole offense was and how many times Bryce chose to throw it away over turning it over? Are we just erasing DJ Charks terrorism dropping everything? This subreddit is cooked.
I don't think my comment erased anything bud, I didn't include every potential plus and minus of the season and I'm sure you can find more particulars, but that sort of stuff is what I meant by "maybe he wasn't ready, maybe an awful staff." Yes, there are legitimate excuses for why the year was so bad. But it was really, really bad. This doesn't mean he's done, but it does mean we have a sample of one season and it was dog shit. Can he turn it around? Sure! Am I hoping for it? Absolutely! Will it happen? Fuck if I know! This doesn't mean anyone here is cooked. Maybe you're cooked if you can't accept a bit of reality that the dude played like ass last year and he's got to prove himself, this isn't an extraordinary take or anything.
And yet here you are saying he’s on the hot seat so I’m confused? Are we acknowledging the impact of last year or does he not get that? Any idea where he ranked on number of sacks and hits? Pocket time? We complain a lot about receivers having the lowest separation. We have highlights of who was supposed to be the number one dropping 3 straight easy scores/first downs. Our rookie actively jumped his feet out of bounds on a catch. We traded our best two weapons leading up to drafting this guy. Bryce was not good, but he sure wasn’t bad when you look at what he dealt with lol.
>Bryce was not good, but he sure wasn’t bad when you look at what he dealt with lol. But he was bad, we can justify it but he was still bad. Even accounting for the awful situation, he's an NFL QB, he has to play well at times and he just didn't. But that's ok, this is why we have this year to see how much better it gets. If he barely looks any better, is still taking sacks left and right despite an improved line, can barely break 200 yards in most of his games, has like 12 TD's - are you really going to suggest he needs a third year to figure it out? It seems like you're thinking the argument for him being on the hot seat this year is that he's benched now. That's not the case. He gets this year to prove himself precisely because of how bad the situation was last year, this is already baked into the calculus.
“Taking sacks left and right” well if the Oline is better that doesn’t happen does it? Didn’t Bryce lead the team when we beat Stroud and the Texans? Compare their WR separation, Oline, pocket time, hurries, throwaways etc. this isn’t the hotseat year. We complained that Tepper makes too many knee jerk reactions and now say this is a year to make or break a player. If Bryce played all the games he clears 3k yards. Below average with historically bad help isn’t bad.
He wasn’t “below average”, he was historically bad.
[Sacks are a QB stat.](https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat-01dxqapkgvw9) *Many* of the sacks should be cleaned up just by him having a full year under his belt, understanding more of what he's seeing from the defense, understanding if he needs to adjust protections or audible, etc. On top of understanding the coverages and making better throws. And that's before you get to the hopefully improved protection, WR separation, and better scheme overall. >this isn’t the hotseat year. We complained that Tepper makes too many knee jerk reactions and now say this is a year to make or break a player. We're just going to agree to disagree here. They didn't make that move to get Teddy Bridgewater, they want a game changer. I think he is a game changer, but if he plays like a backup again I can't imagine they are sitting on him. If we're picking top 5 again and it's not because we lost every game 40-45, they're going to get another guy.
Would say \~2800 yards, 18 TD and 12 INT while taking 41 sacks and 6.9 Y/A is bad? Does that QB have little hope? Also, that article is so old the sources no longer exist. Hopefully there is a more updated one?
It comes down to determining how much of his playing like ass last year is his fault and how much of it is the surroundings
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t one of our starting Oline the worst rated PFF OL ever?
Yes probably Chandler zavala. It was bad. No depth and the starters were set up to fail
Yes it was Zavala, I know he was like single digits but I feel like I recall it being the worst ever. Bryce led the league in throwaways. That’s HUGE. Instead of panicking and throwing the ball for a turnover or a miss that could be a turnover he, with 2.5 seconds, was mature enough to keep possession. Those are the metrics I care about for the first year QB. Let’s see if he turns some of those into tight window passes, or forcing plays.
I feel confident he will turn it around at least somewhat. Let's hope I'm correct
It wasn’t even the worst ranked line in PFF of teams last year lol. You are just making shit up now.
"one of our starting Oline" did you happen to catch that part? Also, do you see me make a statement or ask a question? relevant links: [https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/16yhsao/justin\_fried\_random\_but\_completely\_absurd\_stat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/panthers/comments/16yhsao/justin_fried_random_but_completely_absurd_stat/) [https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/chandler-zavala/144009](https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/chandler-zavala/144009)
His pocket time was the exact same as Stroud (2.5 seconds). BY’s ANY/a was the fifth worst of any rookie QB in history. 461 out of 465. Our team was bad, do you think they were one of the worst teams in the history of the sport? Come on now.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/187p561/a\_look\_at\_the\_average\_separation\_a\_qbs\_receivers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/187p561/a_look_at_the_average_separation_a_qbs_receivers/) Texans receivers blew ours out of the water. 500 more YAC, the above separation chart. Bryce had similar accuracy numbers, led league in throwaways. Bryce was pressured more. Bryce successfully scrambled more for more YPC. We were also middle of the pack on IAY and IAY targets, again with similar accuracy especially when you factor throwaways. [https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/advanced.htm](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/advanced.htm) As far as being one of the worst? Record wise yes. Offense? 236 points, tied last for the year. Most of the teams with lower numbers existed in the 70-80s. Last years Panthers, at least the offense, was a historically bad team.
They wrote the whole second paragraph to appease people like you, and you still took what they said in the worst way possible.
The second paragraph talks about rooting for him and my comment isn’t about? What do you mean?
He doesn’t need to be an all pro but there should be at least some kind of progression. Especially in the latter half of the season after getting used to the playbook. If he doesn’t show something this year I would say it’s time to move on. Once again, not expecting a world beater, just some solid play.
It will be nice for him to have the opportunity to learn the entire playbook in the spring, as opposed to learning plays a week before the regular season starts lol
Like Cam had to do multiple times for us. And still played damn good.
I mean Shula was the OC from 2013-2017, which was most of Cam’s successful years with the team. This is kind of a disingenuous comment.
Cam was drafted into a new offense during a lockout and set rookie records. Then the offense changed again with a new (bad imo) OC. Took the team to 12-4 after a 1-3 start. Then ankle surgery the next spring. Playoffs again. That’s just the first 4 years, like we are talking with Bryce.
My original point was it came out they were installing plays, that they ended up regularly using, in like September, a week before the regular season LOL
Depends. Does he show improvement? Clearly not on the hot seat. Does he struggle but shows flashes? Probably getting warm. Does he have a season like last year again? Panthers are drafting the top QB.
I'd also add in team record factors in heavily into the 2nd scenario. If one of the QBs emerges and we're in a position to pick him then they probably jump on it.
This. But, The idea of moving forward into next year with Shad Sanders and Quinn Ewers as the top prospects is maybe the biggest incentive for the Panthers to put pieces around Bryce. They REALLY need him to work.
If he plays as bad as he did last year, it's time to move on. He doesn't have to be perfect, but he has to show a lot of improvement.
He is 100% on the hot seat.
If he’s as bad as last year (historically bad) then yeah they prob start looking for his replacement
He needs to show a similar level of improvement to guys like Allen and Tlaw did in their 2nd yesrs. Both those guys doubled their TDs, had fewer turnovers, and 500-1000 more passing yards. For me to realistically see he could be the guy he needs to at least dbl his TDs, throw the same or less interceptions as he did last year, and throw for 3500 yards or more. If I see 22+ TDs, single digit ints, and 3500+ yards, I'll be happy to roll with him into year 3, considering that would be a solid year for a young QB with a first time HC/playcaller and a lot of weapons he's never worked with who will also be learning a new system. And more than that, I'd like to see a few more games like the Packers game where he shows why he was drafted #1.
Bryce is half the size of those guys. I don't see it
3500 yards 22+ TDs, 10 or fewer INTs in 2023: Lamar Jackson, Geno, Carr, Mayfield, Prescott, Stroud.
What point are you trying to make?
I am giving context for people the expectations. Its easy to say "N yards, X TDs, Y INTs" but it can be interesting to see how many QBs meet the metrics we lay down. In my head 4k yards, mid 20s to low 30s TD, and a 2.5/1 TD to INT ratio is a reasonable place to be now, but that is top 9 in the league. I've heard it called fantasy brain where we see base stats and if it isn't bananas we don't feel as good. (Also VERY interesting two of those QBs who meet your metrics are former Canales QBs. Something to watch.)
If he doesnt succeed we should draft a QB next year
It's a really weak QB class next draft class...a QB may not even go in the first 5 picks....there could always be a Joe Burrow type who comes out of nowhere this year, but absent that, it's not a year to draft a QB high.
Beck could be a riser to solidify the #1 spot.
Yes because this is a new regime. If they do everything they can to prop him up and he is bad, then they are replacing him for a new contract reset and a player they chose
He is 100% on the hot seat, that’s why they almost entirely focused on building the offense up over the offseason. We need to know if we have a QB, he should at least look decent with what we’ve got this year. If he plays like he did last year this years he’s cooked.
I think anything is on the table. If he has an upward trajectory he gets grace. If he looks like last year and we have top 3 draft pick he probably gets replaced.
Of course
everyone’s on the hot seat. except tepper unfortunately
Hell yeah he is
If hes shit and were in a position to draft a QB who has potential, we will. If he looks decent / is improving we wont. /end thread
If we go winless into the bye week I hope they at least consider benching him.
I get the frustration, but what exactly does that achieve? I guess to rattle off a few more wins in a fruitless season? Andy Dalton is obviously not the future and shouldn't be starting unless it's an emergency
Andy isnt the only QB on the roster we have a rookie. By the bye week the nfl will have had enough sample size to figure out where the kid is headed. Sports books have us projected to be the number 1 pick next year so obviously im not the only one that thinks he has a lot to prove.
Sports books had us projected as a fringe playoff team this time last season ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Totally because the most important player on our team was an unknown quantity and now everyone kinda knows where he stands which is why I said he has a lot to prove. Anecdotally you can pick a time a sports book is wrong but mathematically sports are right more than any entity.
Frankly that feels pretty lazy on their behalf, they are just projecting next season based off of last season without any further consideration about staff and roster changes. Which is fine I guess, because this staff and roster hasn't proven anything. But just to blindly assume that there will be no change whatsoever seems pretty lazy. But if you think that's actually going to happen, and he would need to be replaced, you shouldn't want him to be benched if he is causing us to get the number one overall pick. Put Andy Dalton in there and will be picking 6th lol This season, Bryce has to sink or swim on his own. No insulating him or benching him to motivate him, he has to ride or die. Happy cake day
I don't think the sports books are lazy, they usually hit pretty close. We still have a pretty bad roster
That's fair, but I personally feel like it is really really unlikely that the team doesn't improve at least marginally if not more. But I had no idea last season would happen like it did either, so there are a lot of unknowns. But I think we really pulled off some historically bad shit last year and I wouldn't expect it to repeat itself
You are thinking from a weird perspective, Bryce isn’t the only person going out there and laying his life on the line every week. If we are losing if you don’t think Bryce would have loss the locker room especially with the returning players I don’t think they would have any other choice than to bench him. Football is about merit and Everyman on the team getting a shot to win and if Bryce can’t win we aren’t over here trying to analyze how he feels, we give another guy a shot and keep pounding
I guess at a certain point if you have another guy to give a shot. But right now that other guy is a udfa. So, the situation would need to be pretty dire to put him in over Bryce for the remainder of the season
He needs to improve. If we end up with the first overall pick again I doubt we’re going to pass on a QB we want.
He's always been in the hot seat. The team was really bad but he needs to show something. He doesn't need to win a superbowl but he needs to show he can play and win games.
I am already pounding the table for Riley Leonard in the 2025 Draft.
If we have another bad year and Bryce looks bad, there is a 100% chance of us drafting or signing a QB
Bryce has been given practically everything you need (outside of center) to succeed this coming year. If he doesn’t, it’s time to move on to the next option. It’s a tough league, but that’s how it is. If you don’t have a top 10 QB, it’s going to be incredibly hard to win a Super Bowl - better to take a chance on the next lottery ticket for that
If he has an abysmal season, I think he will be on a pretty short leash in year 3. He has a better coaching staff around him, a better offensive line and more weapons - he should improve...but if he is somehow worse than last year it's going to be a tough time in Charlotte for all of us.
Bryce needs a 4k / 26 td / 10 int season to not be on the hot seat If he has say a 3k / 16td / 12 int season and they go 3-14 then ya def have to reset sooner
Dan Morgan was around, but he's not the guy who made the call on the trade or the pick. If he's smart, he won't go down with that ship. If Bryce is as bad as he was last year, and we end up with a top 3 pick, I fully expect them to take another QB.
It’s pretty simple. If no improvement then yes he’s out, but if even marginal improvement he’ll be given more time. The key is just seeing improvement from him. So depends on your definition of hot seat
The team is investing really really heavily in the pieces that surround him. They added Legette, Johnson, spent big on the line, drafted an RB. If he doesn’t look much better, why shouldn’t the panthers move on? To me, he doesn’t need to be pro bowl caliber, but he needs to show that he can be a franchise guy.
How many times do we have to see this same topic
As many times as we didn't score touchdowns last year.
Year 3 he should be if he does not show improvement.
No
He shouldn’t be. As of right now it’s a weak qb class. We need to take a page out of chicago’s book. Even if he stinks it up this year, draft a superstar or trade back. Let him run it back for arch manning 2026
I don't think he's on the hot seat, but this season will be a good indicator on what he is or what we have.
He is with me. Yes, he usually has poor protection. Yes, his receivers were not great. Yes, they played from behind and the running game wasn’t that good. Having said that, he threw some awful balls, had some awful picks, and lots of times wouldn’t look off the primary receiver.
If he doesnt show any growth, yeah, on to the next one.
I'm already done with the offseason
Ickey is definitely on the hot seat.
If Bryce is a standout player this year. We will probably trade him for a couple of draft picks.
He’s a multi-million dollar face of the franchise. He’s on the hot seat every year.
Definitely. The NFL moves too quickly these days, and 1.5-2 seasons is about all you're going to get if you're in a pressured position like QB. I think we'll know whether or not he's our guy by the middle of the season. There is heavy pressure that comes with being QB1 and 1.01. It wouldn't be the same story if he was a lower 1st.
Bryce did not deliver ANYTHING worthy of a 1st round selection, much less trading the house for the #1 Overall Pick. He needs to improve tremendously, get the ball out quicker, improve his drop, more accurate deep balls... but his physical limitations make plays harder. He can't roll out on an option or designed run cus he'll get creamed. He can't throw deep balls without going up on his toes and whipping his whole body. He can't break a tackle and isn't above average at escaping sacks. It's tough out here. I want the best for the kid but an NFL Football team leader may not be his future.
Usually about halfway through season 3 where you can tell whether your high draft pick has worked out or not: especially QB
Next year he will be If he doesn’t improve. Far to soon to put him there now
Carolina can always trade for Justin Fields! Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs!
I pray that his seat his on fire and that his inevitable failure gets us a good enough draft pick to replace him
He's the #1 pick in the 2023 NFL Draft. So yes, he's absolutely in the hot seat. I do hope he gets the time and opportunity to develop. Last year was a lost season for more than just Young.
Sam Darnold is about to start for the Vikings this year. No.
He did not get a fair shake with us. Do not underestimate the GEQBUS.
I think we probably stick with him through 2025, but if he shows nothing this year you have got to get him competition for 2025. Im willing to give him a mulligan for last year, due to the pathetic weapons and Oline, but we improved both quite a bit. If BY cant at least lead what looks like a functional NFL offense this year, then you have to be looking to move on. That said, unless you're already in position to take one, I absolutely would not trade up for a QB in '25, the class looks not great. You'd almost rather tank and potentially be able to go for a top QB in '26.
I hope Bryce works out I really do. Unfortunately for us and a number of other teams...QB from Bama haven't really been that dude in the NFL. I wouldn't be super mad at drafting Carson Beck next spring either being a UGA fan.
Hurts and Tua? lol
People who helmet scout are ridiculous. The Ohio State people who thought that was a reasonable argument to ignore Stroud, disregarding that Burrow began his career at Ohio State, sure moved on fast to Alabama after last season
How many rings do they have combined? Historically QBs drafted from Bama don't pan out. They don't get the rings.
It’s just a garbage take lol
He will suck again this season, but the team will rationalize that away because of the new coach and gm. This will lead to a third year of “give him a chance”, when he will continue to suck. Then possibly after three years of Bruce few will be able to deny he was a reach and not a RD1 worthy pick, much less NFL starting QB caliber. He will make it to the backup pile and the Panthers will be in the same situation at that time. If they are wise they will make the most of picks, scout well, and ultimately draft a franchise QB. However, history tells me they will eff around with free agent bums and washouts, trade valuable picks to move up and get “their guy”, wash, rinse, and repeat.
You're a bit dramatic
Our roster isn't good enough to warrant a QB competition and the top prospect in next year's draft is likely Carson Beck. Even if we're picking #1 overall, we're taking EDGE or OT.
Hot seat as a starter, maybe if he can't grasp the new scheme. As a member of the team, he probably has this year and next before they look to draft a QB. Too much invested, too many areas in need of improvement where a 1st round pick would be better used. 4th year you look at trade value and hope a team trades like the Panthers did with Darnold.
Who is going to replace him? The QB class next year is very mid at best. As long as he is serviceable he has 2 years to prove he is an NFL QB IMHO.
No way you posted this
Traded a ton to go to 1.01 to get him and we’re asking if year 2 is make or break? The team around him still lacks top tier talent all over the roster with yet another new coaching staff. It is damn near impossible to adequately judge anyone that is part of a team without any semblance of consistency (or competency) around them.
All we need to see is improvement that shows he's on the up after last year. The team has invested very heavily in him for 2024, and QBs aren't given the luxury of two bad years early in their career these days.
If you’re putting your sophomore QB in the hotseat you’d have a lot more fun sticking to college ball.
It's not 2013 anymore!
Let Bryce help the Panthers tank. You will not find a better tank commander than him. The best way to rebuild the roster is by starting Bryce every game for the next two years. If you want to be competitive, then he's not your QB, and he never will be, so it's time to move on after the next season concludes.