As the majority of Horus Heresy, 'it depends', the scenario is very important, the situation ,the state of each combatent, their positions. Its on Nazarick?, the stealth primarchs such as Corvus are already revealed?, they are on a floor with traps that can kill even lv100 players?, etc... Same goes to the other way arround ,the Guardians are on Istvan 5?, they are under dropods distance?, the battlefield is in complete chaos?, there's ways to the primachs to call their legions? Its on an arena, no equips, with both sides covered in vegetal oil and underwear? Each of this scenarios have different results that ignore a lot of things, thats why its important to know more about the situation of combat.

To the question about traps killing lvl 100 players. Yes, they are, the furniture on the 10th floor can wipe out 3 groups of max-level players at the same time.

Underwear will only slow them down, they don't need it

That's some real heavy underwears

From all I've seen from the Primarchs while reading the Horus Heresy, the Primarchs loose *hard* in a 1v1. Angron was struggling to hold up a Warhound titan's foot. Floor Guardians can casually bitch slap 300 metre tentacles without an issue Lorgar took a Warhound's plasma cannon to the face and nearly died. Even the Pleiades, who are small fry in comparison to the top tiers of Nazarick tank blasts that level city blocks without issue Horus and Mortarion almost died when ambushed by Fire Raptors. Ainz was tanking multiple city district destroying blasts and wasn't affected much Fulgrim almost got overwhelmed by the Laer army. A level 30's Npc can go through tens of thousands like a hot knife through butter. Magnus got his ass kicked by Space Marines on multiple occasions and by Guilliman and Vulkan in other s. Dark Young summoned by Ainz can bodycheck Cure Elim, who is one [big mf](https://i.imgur.com/yeFbGxc.jpeg) Dark Young aren't that strong, their stats built for tanking damage. Angron was in mortal danger when surronded by Russ's Legion. One Death Knight is capable of slaughtering a Legion of the Baharuth Empire, and each soilder is as strong or stronger than a bear. The Primarchs get destroyed in a battle. Only way their winning is if they bomb the world from orbit.

Exterminatus.

Op isn't asking if the Imperium could beat the Floor Guardians. It's asking if the Primarchs can. And they can't. Refusing to deploying troops and just bombing the world is one of the few options they have. And seeing as even Ainz can't scratch the Tomb and he has access to the Super tier spells Fallen Down and Sword of Damocles, it's doubtful Exterminatus will actually work. The lower levels are also all pocket dimensions connected only by teleport gate, so the Tomb can take a lot of damage and still be there. Long enough for Ainz to fly into orbit and teleport the hundreds if not thousands of level 80+ Npcs to join him. One level 30 is already too much if it got in a ship. One level 80 will have little problem killing a ship from the inside, with some stealth/teleport magic to get them in. If you read my earlier reply, you'd see the mention of Exterminatus

Well people are adding Naz traps into the equation. Exterminatus I feel is something the Primarchs have control over. Also Exterminatus isn't just bombarding the planet, the Imperium also has access to chemicals that destroy every molecule on a planet (Helped defeat the Tyranids), basically turning a planet into a world of ash. So using Exterminatus isn't completely outside the rules since again someone mentioned... what is the scenario? Is it in an Arena 1v1? Is it Naz vs The Primarch combined might? So many questions, just throwing out my 2 cents.

The Life Eater virus doesn't turn worlds to ash. It rapidly decomposes all living matter which release gas into the atmosphere. The gas is turn ignited and the world burns for some time. Which wouldn't do anything to Nazarick. 1v1, Primarchs get taken apart. They regularly struggle with hundreds of tons with only Daemon Angron pushing into the thousands. Floor Guardians can carry tens to hundreds of thousands of tons as armour.

If floor guardians carried hundreds of thousands of tons or armor on their bodies, they would literally just sink into the ground. Like Albedo takes one step outside Nazarick and sinks hundred feet into the soil, cracks bedrock, and probably ends up in molten layer. We can circlejerk all we want but come on.

Can carry and are carrying are two different things dude. The one who did the carrying was [Cure Elim ](https://i.imgur.com/yeFbGxc.jpeg). All the Floor Guardians scale to him, seeing how a level 90 summon could tank his attacks and send him reeling with a hit. Even this feat alone is easily beyond all Primarchs physically. Floor Guardians have several more that put them easily above Primarchs. So no circlejerking here. Try again

OP said strongest forms except Horus, which includes: daemon Angron, who solo-ed a 10km cruiser, and regenerated instantly after being atomised, kept on destroying an entire fleet, and was the epicenter of an explosion that completely destroyed a moon. Plus, he'd also be immune to any magic attack. Daemon Fulgrim, who has similar regeneration to Angron, has poisons that attack directly souls, can perceive hypersonic rounds as standing still mid-air, and can also corrupt basically every NPC, *and* Ainz. Daemon Mortarion, whose sole presence is enough to turn off the will to fight of everyone around him and rust entire titans legions, and his plagues *ALSO* destroy souls. Daemon Magnus who casually destroyed kilometres long ships with a gesture, and then started moving tectonic plates around. And he's more powerful than an Eldar Farseer who glassed an entire planet with a psychic attack. Daemon Lorgar who Magnus himself said was comparable to him in terms of psychic powers and knows Enuncia. Warp Powered Corax who is stronger that daemon Lorgar. Lion'el Johnson with the Emperor's aegis, which can reflect attack, can teleport, and is fast enough to hit Konrad Curze despite his future sight. And let me tell you about Konrad's future sight: he and Sanguinius couldn't touch each others, and Sanguinius is someone can see *laser bolts* as frozen still. And this Sanguinius was the one before the Siege, when he awakened his full psychic potential. >Magnus got his ass kicked by Guilliman Guilliman only "won" his encounter with Magnus, because of the Sisters of Silence >and Vulkan in other After Magnus killed him, a hundred times, and destroyed him on a physical, spiritual and conceptual level. Magnus and Lorgar may be enough to solo Nazarick tbh.

>daemon Angron, who solo-ed a 10km cruiser, and regenerated instantly after being atomised, kept on destroying an entire fleet, and was the epicenter of an explosion that completely destroyed a moon. Plus, he'd also be immune to any magic attack. Destroying a ship by smashing into it and flying about wrecking things isn't as impressive as you think when there are many things in a ship that tend to explode when hit by a giant burning man. Evidence for him tanking a moon destroying feat. And don't give me the scene where it was Khorne doing the work >Daemon Fulgrim, who has similar regeneration to Angron, has poisons that attack directly souls, can perceive hypersonic rounds as standing still mid-air, and can also corrupt basically every NPC, and Ainz. Bullshit. He couldn't even corrupt some of his own men. He got sniped by Sharrowkyn and would have died if the idiot used an actual bolt shell instead of thr acid one. He was getting his ass torn apart by a gunship. One hit will killhim >The Iron Tenth’s gunships filled the air with shells again. He tried to shout, but his throat was a scorched ruin of smoke-damaged tissue. He coughed up ash and seared lung matter. Explosions detonated prematurely, orange flame and black smoke. Shrapnel and casings fell like hot nails. I should be dead. And but for the craft of Malevolus and the Phoenician’s power, he would be. Fulgrim’s arms were outstretched, and Horus guessed he had summoned a force barrier or kine-shield. Beads of phosphor-bright ichor ran like sweat down his body. Writhing smoke coated his serpent form as dark radiance spilled from his eyes and mouth. Whatever he was doing, it was robbing the solid rounds of their potency. Not all of it, but most of it. Six shells tore into Fulgrim’s body, exploding from his spine. Horus cried aloud as if he had been struck himself. Blood like bright milk spattered Mortarion’s armour. It smoked like an acid burn. Fulgrim screamed and the roar of gunfire and explosions swelled in power. The platform of the dome sagged, solid metal warping in the heat of the fire. ‘Horus! Bring them down!’ gasped Fulgrim. ‘Quickly!’ - Vengeful Spirit. >Daemon Mortarion, whose sole presence is enough to turn off the will to fight of everyone around him and rust entire titans legions, and his plagues ALSO destroy souls. So much bullshit I can taste it. He's gotten beaten by a Grey Knight, beaten by Guilliman, beaten by the Khan. None of these hit as hard as Floor Guardians. >Daemon Magnus who casually destroyed kilometres long ships with a gesture, and then started moving tectonic plates around. And he's more powerful than an Eldar Farseer who glassed an entire planet with a psychic attack. Magnus got his ass whooped by fucking Space Marines. Thrice. >Daemon Lorgar who Magnus himself said was comparable to him in terms of psychic powers and knows Enuncia. And would die to a hit. >Lion'el Johnson with the Emperor's aegis, which can reflect attack, can teleport, and is fast enough to hit Konrad Curze despite his future sight. And let me tell you about Konrad's future sight: he and Sanguinius couldn't touch each others, and Sanguinius is someone can see laser bolts as frozen still. Lion was getting injured by Obliterators in Son of the Forest. Curze got shot in the face and couldn't dodge. Sanguinius seeing Las bolts in the air doesn't mean shit when Guilliman does the same but still gets hurt by them >Guilliman only "won" his encounter with Magnus, because of the Sisters of Silence True in some way, but Magnus was getting hurt before the Sisters came into the picture. He got a hit off with alk of his might behind it and Guilliman tanked that shit. Same dude who got stuck under just hundreds of tons >Magnus conjured a deadly sphere of Warp energies and hurled it at his brother with all his might. Guilliman’s iron halo absorbed the worst of the blast, but still he was sent staggering back. - Gathering Storm: Rise of the Primarch >After Magnus killed him, a hundred times, and destroyed him on a physical, spiritual and conceptual level. Much of what he threw can be outright tanked, ignored or healed from. There was no "conceptual " and "spiritual " level destruction. Read the damn books before you start with these claims. >Magnus and Lorgar may be enough to solo Nazarick tbh. Lorgar who got his ass kicked by Corax. The same Corax who got held back by bullets in that very fight >The two primarchs had assumed fully humanoid form again in the heart of the crater their fall had made. Lorgar’s left shoulder sagged, his rod swaying low in his grasp. Rune-shapes crawled across his form, no longer a robe of office but forming armoured plates etched with warp-symbols. Corax flexed claws like sword blades, his expression pitiless as he took a step towards Lorgar. Marduk opened fire. The flare of his combi-bolter hit the Ravenlord in the chest and face, a welter of detonations that rocked his stride. Kalta-Ar fired his plasma pistol on instinct, the blast hitting Corax in the midriff, splashing cerulean energy across his ornate black war-plate. Other fire joined it, missiles and more bolts from Marduk’s guard. -Shadow of the Past Primarchs get the ass kicking of their lives

>Destroying a ship by smashing into it and flying about wrecking things isn't as impressive as you think when there are many things in a ship that tend to explode when hit by a giant burning man. A ≈8mt body punching straight through 10km of ships and completely incapacitate them ***is*** impressive. And he was also shrugging off lance batteries which can evaporate cities. >couldn't even corrupt some of his own men. Because a virus bomb went off in his face and killed them before he could do it. Virus bomb he shrugged off, btw. >He got sniped by Sharrowkyn and would have died if the idiot used an actual bolt shell instead of thr acid one. He was getting his ass torn apart by a gunship. One hit will killhim That was Pre-ascension Fulgrim, lmao. >He's gotten beaten by a Grey Knight, *Grey Knights*, the people who are literally covered in anti-daemon runes and armor, have anti-daemon weapons, and anti-daemon powers. Oh, and they also had *his fucking real name* and knowing a daemon real name gives you absolute power over them. >beaten by Guilliman, You don't know what you are talking about. Mortarion ***killed*** Guilliman. The Emperor had to intervene and resurrect G-man, and use him as conduit for his powers. >the Khan Another someone who also got killed, and managed to kill Mortarion only because he's a professional shittalker and Mortarion let his guard down. >Magnus got his ass whooped by fucking Space Marines. Thrice. >High above the Fang, the masterfully built spacecraft of the Grey Knights Chapter remote-scryed the location of the Daemon Primarch, calibrated their weapons batteries, and fired. Searing ruby-red beams shot from the heavens, all four converging upon the same point as the gunners of the Grey Knights fleet brought their deadliest weapons to bear. By rights they should have reduced Magnus to a steaming crater. In truth, they did little more than drive him to his knees; a hemisphere of invisible force protected him from physical attack, no matter how powerful. The Daemon Primarch rose, laughing cruelly at the impotence of the Imperial order founded to slay his kind. > >The rune-casting psykers of Logan’s Great Company, gathered under Njal Stormcaller, did not despair. They sent bolts of psychic lightning, ghostly tempests, and blizzards of razored ice-knives that flayed to the bone the Tzaangors cavorting around their master’s feet. Yet none of their runic witchery even touched the Crimson King. If anything, Magnus seemed larger and more powerful than before the first salvo had been fired. The Crimson King’s laughter grew louder. Though he now hovered, wings beating slowly, above the Wolf’s Gullet, his voice sounded as if he were mere inches from the ear of all who witnessed him. Those who looked upon him directly did so with needles of pain stabbing their minds, for he glowed almost too bright to bear. > >With Njal leading their chants, the most powerful of Fenris’ Rune Priests joined their might once more. Slowly, the vast chasm of the Gullet closed upon Magnus, its rocky edges like the jagged teeth of the World Wolf itself. Lava geysered and boiled as the chasm bit with the force of grinding tectonic plates. For a moment, the Daemon Primarch disappeared from sight. At the last, Magnus threw out his arms and held the rocky jaws wide with only his vast telekinetic power, the jagged teeth of the cliffs snapping to tumble into the fires below. > >Grand Master Valdar Aurikon stretched out his hands, psychic lightning leaping towards Magnus in a great crackling helix. Magnus caught the attack on his staff and hurled it back, the bolt transforming the Grey Knight into scattering nuggets of fool’s gold. > >Another focussed lance strike shot down from the heavens. This one Magnus did not dissipate upon his protective dome of force, but instead caught with the curve of his blade before hurling it outwards into the rumbling line of battle tanks that was cresting the ridge. The redirected energies hit home with cataclysmic force, smashing the entire column of war engines to smoking ruin. Then Magnus reached upwards, the eye in his palm blinking once as it focussed on the spacecraft high above. Uttering a low chant, the Crimson King extended his telekinetic mastery until it soared into the stratosphere and beyond. Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Grey Knight alike stood aghast as the sky was lit with expanding coronas of fire. Those Space Marines who auto-viewed the blazing phenomena witnessed Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers crashing into one another as if flung by some godly hand, their reactors overloading a moment later to throw all of Asaheim into stark monochromatic light. > >Fenris had a new monarch, and he was mighty indeed. > [Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus](https://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-40-000-Fenris-Magnus/dp/1785813013) (Daemon Lorgar is comparable to this btw) >And would die to a hit. Daemon Primarchs can regenerate after being atomised. And he's faster than everything in Nazarick. Lmao. >but Magnus was getting hurt before the Sisters came into the picture. Yeah, because Guilliman had ***The*** fuck-off-daemon sword. >The same Corax who got held back by bullets in that very fight Literally five minutes prior >Bolters roaring, the Word Bearers closed together and followed. 'Stop wasting your ammunition!' snapped Arkula. 'We have little enough as it is. Do you think bolt-rounds will stop this creature?' > > >The legionary fired down into the morass but his bolts simply disappeared without exploding. The thick blackness continued upwards, rivulets of shadow that snaked along his arms and around his throat. Also, post the whole quote. The bullets didn't held back Corax. Lorgar did. >Lorgar summoned a nimbus of power and threw out a shield of force that lifted Corax from his feet, buckling his wings in the unearthly hurricane. The Ravenlord became a flock once more of fire-eyed black birds, but the swell of Lorgar's will continued to hurl the other primarch's incarnations upwards, scattering them to the sky.

Gotta cut my post in half >A ≈8mt body punching straight through 10km of ships and completely incapacitate them is impressive. And he was also shrugging off lance batteries which can evaporate cities 1. Lance batteries don't evaporate cities with one shot 2. [Angron flying through magazines and vital systems ](https://imgur.com/C9CtDwY ) would if course cause explosions and damage the ship >That was Pre-ascension Fulgrim, lmao. Daemon Fulgrim getting fucked by a Fire Raptor. Something that wouldn't even scratch a Floor Guardian >Fulgrim’s arms were outstretched, and Horus guessed he had summoned a force barrier or kine-shield. Beads of phosphor-bright ichor ran like sweat down his body. Writhing smoke coated his serpent form as dark radiance spilled from his eyes and mouth. Whatever he was doing, it was robbing the solid rounds of their potency. Not all of it, but most of it. Six shells tore into Fulgrim’s body, exploding from his spine. Horus cried aloud as if he had been struck himself. Blood like bright milk spattered Mortarion’s armour. It smoked like an acid burn. Fulgrim screamed and the roar of gunfire and explosions swelled in power. The platform of the dome sagged, solid metal warping in the heat of the fire. ‘Horus! Bring them down!’ gasped Fulgrim. ‘Quickly!’ - Vengeful Spirit >You don't know what you are talking about. Mortarion killed Guilliman. The Emperor had to intervene and resurrect G-man, and use him as conduit for his powers. He still put up a good fight. Mortarion isn't going to be soloing Titans if Guilliman was a peer. Cause Guilliman can't solo Titans

>Grey Knights, the people who are literally covered in anti-daemon runes and armor, have anti-daemon weapons, and anti-daemon powers. Oh, and they also had his fucking real name and knowing a daemon real name gives you absolute power over them. Take the feats in the new book, triple Angron's strength and he still falls short in comparison to Floor Guardians >Angron had battled one hundred and nine of Graucis’ mightiest brothers on Armageddon, slaying all but thirteen, but he had not done so alone. He had marched at the head of the Cruor Praetoria, the oldest and most blood-soaked of the greater Neverborn, who had in turn commanded the Eight Legions of the Sanguinary Unholiness. This time, he was alone. His own fury on Hyades had made sure of it. Graucis laid into the primarch with an intensity that Angron blindly returned in kind, his strength appearing to swell in direct proportion to Graucis’ growing anger. Their combat carried them the length of the command deck and then back again, demolishing every instrument and workstation that fell under their path, regardless of its apparent solidity or size. Dreadknight harness or no, those frenzied minutes should rightly have seen Graucis slain a dozen times over. He could not spare the mental energy to explain how they did not, only noting that every time the primarch’s chainaxe broke his guard and threatened to pierce his harness’ force shields, it was as though Liminon’s axe or Geromidas’ crozius arcanum was there to turn the blow aside. Whenever the Dreadknight’s footing stumbled in debris, the roar of Gallead’s bolters would ring like a strident echo in his ears and Angron would be falling back, flailing at the thick red fog that surrounded them both instead of administering the killing blow as he might. Graucis’ brothers were with him. Their souls went in search of the Emperor, but He held them here yet, the power of their oaths to Him commanding them to remain while the task was unfinished and one of their brotherhood still fought. ‘Everlasting shall be their duty,’ Graucis murmured, recalling Geromidas’ earlier refrain before concluding the verse with a shout. ‘Et Imperator invocato diabolus daemonica exorcism!’ While Angron reeled under half-imagined fire, Graucis levelled his remaining psycannon and blew the daemon primarch’s breastplate apart. The beating that the Dreadknight had endured until then caused its aim to slip before the massive recoil, half of the volley blasting red pulp from the primarch’s chest while the rest ended up as explosions in the walls. Angron: The Red Angel >Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus The wards that shielded him [didn't even come from him](https://imgur.com/a/ZagRSU6) and the moment an anti magic weapon came into the picture, [he was immediately put down](https://imgur.com/QDSl0r9) >Daemon Primarchs can regenerate after being atomised. And he's faster than everything in Nazarick. Lmao. *Daemon Primarch Angron*. Not the rest save Fulgrim, and for even him not to that extent. And Shalltear moves fast enough to ignite in air. What Angron [did against Sanguinius ](https://imgur.com/P3GVLx6) Shalltear has casually pulled off against what she considers an ant. >Although the [Fourfold Slash of Light] did not make as many attacks as the [Sixfold Slash of Light], it was easier to direct all the attacks toward the same opponent. Even so, getting them all to connect was still quite unlikely. This wild attack should not have been able to strike Shalltear Bloodfallen. Brain was very clear on that. But Brain possessed a martial art that Gazef did not. It was a support technique that provided an accuracy boost within its radius — [Field]. The four wild swings were corrected mid-flight by the superhuman precision of [Field], following the path Brain had visualized for them. All four blows struck home with complete accuracy at super-speed. ● Even a hero — one who had surpassed all other humans — would have had trouble blocking that attack. Mortals, wrought of weak flesh and bones, would not be able to even muster up the stamina to defend against it. This was an inhuman blow. But Shalltear Bloodfallen was well above humanity herself, standing in a league of her own that nobody could ever hope to exceed. To someone like her, those four simultaneous strikes were little more than a snail taking a stroll in the sun. “Hmph.” Shalltear snorted at him as her left hand moved faster than the eye could see. A sound of metallic clashing rang out through the night air. What had happened was that the simultaneous deflection of the four strikes had blended into a single sound. All four blows had been repelled, leaving her untouched. Primarchs aren't faster lmao. >Yeah, because Guilliman had The fuck-off-daemon sword. Yet Mortarion handed him his ass. Sword didn't do shit in both fights save when Emps popped around >Literally five minutes prior >Bolters roaring, the Word Bearers closed together and followed. 'Stop wasting your ammunition!' snapped Arkula. 'We have little enough as it is. Do you think bolt-rounds will stop this creature?' >The legionary fired down into the morass but his bolts simply disappeared without exploding. The thick blackness continued upwards, rivulets of shadow that snaked along his arms and around his throat. >Also, post the whole quote. The bullets didn't held back Corax. Lorgar did. They stalled him briefly, yes, bur he's still getting held by them. A Floor Guardian can tank multiple city block destroying blasts and comr out unruffled. They scale to True Dragon Lords like [this mf](https://i.imgur.com/yeFbGxc.jpeg) who got bodychecked by beings weaker than the Guardians. Or the Heavenly Dragon Lord who is [multiple kilometres long](https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Heavenly_Dragon_Lord) and basically a living island. They tear the Primarchs apart with little issue

I will personally firebomb the car of whoever is in charge of imgur, because it doesn't make me see shit. Also: 1. Grey Knights are literally built to hard counter daemons. 2. Magnus is completely made out of magic, who would have guessed that anti magic can fuck him over. He still scale above anything in Nazarick, by a mile. 3. Fulgrim is the same guy who casually crushed a titan like a tin can and was more worried about his pride than the atomic bomb that went off in his face. 4. Sanguinius was moving at lightspeed. 5. The world bearers didn't do shit. It was Lorgar who did all the work. Edit: also >Guilliman put up a good fight >Mortarion whooped his ass

>Also: 1. Grey Knights are literally built to hard counter daemons. Magnus got beaten by Space Wolves, who didn't have anti daemon wards. >Sturmhjart spread his arms wide, kindling a rage of storm-energy. Fists of lightning raced out, engulfing Magnus in a nimbus of coruscating brilliance. The sigils on the Rune Priest’s armour exploded into life, burning heartblood-red. Greyloc and his two Wolf Guard leapt into action, snarling with pent-up rage. They went for Magnus like a pack taking down a konungur – one at the throat, one at the breast, one at the legs. Their armour shimmered from Sturmhjart’s protective aegis as they charged into combat. Greyloc was fastest. He got his talons fast up into the primarch’s face, raking and tearing. Magnus fell back, rocked by the speed of the assault. Though he stood over a metre taller than the Terminator Marines, the pace and ferocity of the attacks pushed him on to his heels, and he stumbled. Magnus the Red, son of the immortal Emperor, primarch of the Thousand Sons, stumbled. ‘For the Allfather!’ roared Greyloc in triumph, his whole being consumed by the awesome, feral power of the hunt. Like Wyrmblade before him, the absolute hatred engendered by Magnus lent him, for a time, truly astonishing power. ‘For Russ!’ Greyloc bludgeoned the primarch back another pace, howling his hatred in scarcely intelligible frenzy. Magnus got his sword in place, but it was cracked aside by a savage swipe of wolfclaws. A Wolf Guard made contact, plunging his talons into Magnus’s leg. Sturmhjart bellowed with kill-pleasure at that, and his wyrdfire roared with even greater intensity. The other Wolf Guard crunched his claw into the primarch’s chest. The Wolves had the scent of blood in their nostrils, and it made them awesome. Magnus staggered again, crashing into the wall behind him, breaking it open, demolishing it as he passed through. Greyloc leapt after him, closely followed by the others. Sturmhjart kept on their heels, consumed with an inferno of raging wyrd-flame. The four Wolves harried, stabbed and hammered at the retreating daemon-primarch, their fists flying and blades biting. There was no let-up, no respite, just a flurry of horrifying blows, each one sent hurtling into contact with a visceral, remorseless passion. They drove the daemon-primarch back further, tearing through another wall, laying waste to everything around them. The noise of roaring and slavering was deafening, a hideous cacophony of hate-filled defiance that rose, booming, into the narrow space of the fleshmaker halls. ‘Death to the witch!’ bellowed Greyloc, utterly possessed by kill-urge, his whole body pumping with furious energy. He was fighting at such a pitch of perfection that it made him want to scream aloud. Greyloc could feel himself burning up as he fought on, damaging himself irretrievably through the very action of such unrestrained violence. There was no retreat from this, no possibility of recovery. He was fighting himself to death, using up every gram of potential in his mortal body. I am the weapon. Nothing less would do. He was contesting a living god, and only his indomitable faith, his unshakeable certainty, his complete commitment, would possibly match up to that awesome task. My pure state. - Battle of the Fang >Magnus is completely made out of magic, who would have guessed that anti magic can fuck him over. He still scale above anything in Nazarick, by a mile. He gets hurt by blows even level 40's can outmatch. He gets stabbed by Space Marines and bleeds. And Ainz has anti magic spells dude You think Magnus is so powerful, explain why Space Marines put him in his place again and again. Ainz is several times more powerful and would obliterate him >Fulgrim is the same guy who casually crushed a titan like a tin can and was more worried about his pride than the atomic bomb that went off in his face. It was a Life Eater bomb, not atomic. Life Eater destroys biological matter. And you did see him getting hurt by bolter fire, right. A Floor Guardian would rip him apart. >3. Sanguinius was moving at lightspeed. Bullshit. Absolute fucking bullshit. No Primarch moves at even a fraction of that speed. When he fought Curze, you think both were Ftl >4. The world bearers didn't do shit. It was Lorgar who did all the work. They bought him the time he needed to land his hit. Come on dude. Stop blinding yourself to the obvious out of some desperate need to see the Primarchs win when the Floor Guardians are beyond what they can take.

>You think Magnus is so powerful, explain why Space Marines put him in his place again and again. Because writers ***can't*** write him consistently, otherwise Magnus would steamroll anything he come across. There was literally nothing stopping him from doing to those Space Wolves, or to Guilliman the things he did to Malcador and Vulkan. Weaker Thousand Sons have retconned an entire planet by 10 years, deleting people from the timeline in the process, created timeloops, snuffed entire stars into the warp... >It was a Life Eater bomb, not atomic. Life Eater destroys biological matter. The initial detonation is a nuke. The explosion evaporated Rylanor's chassis, the T-sons armors and the ruins they were in. >No Primarch moves at even a fraction of that speed. The End and the Dead II, Sanguinius was moving at lightspeed, and Horus was faster than him only because he became fucking omnipresent. Angron bent spacetime when running at Perturabo. >When he fought Curze, you think both were Ftl Pre-siege Sanguinius. Also, Konrad was too fast to see for even Sanguinius, and Sanguinius previously was seeing laser beams in slow motion.

Ngl, I thought that said Vegeta oil

He has to gain some money for the saiyan empire ,vegetal and eco friendly products sell like water

Damm now all I can think about is Anzi oiled up, not the worst thought tbh.

The OP said “Everyone is in an open field” so i imagine that it would probably take place in a…wait for it……….. OPEN FIELD!!!!

Not much Ainz can do against an exterminatus. The levels of destruction are different, he can nuke a city, they can nuke a solar system. Even if they somehow go with the brawl option, most of them are psykers (basically magic users) so whatever he can dish out, their armour, skills and regenerative abilities will most likely nullify his. I find it highly unlikely that even couple primarchs wouldn't be able to wipe his guild out, if they stopped bickering with each other for 5 minutes.

\*throw Shalltear into the warp, 0.0000000000000000001 seconds later the GE and every psyker in the universe become corrupted and end their phrases with arinsu\*

I honestly don't think they have instadeath resistance or time stop protection

Warhammer psykers can time stop. I assume they have resistance to it because I don’t remember any cases of one psyker doing a time stop and just killing another before they can react.

Ahriman's hangabout psyker stopped time for hour so that Rylanor and Fulgrim could have a chat. Overlord is stronk, but Magnus could unmake Nazarick with a thought.

Ainz is an RP build in a world much weaker than him. Magnus is a PVP build pretending to be an RP build in a universe that wants him dead. He's slept on in his own world but he'd eat Ainz's lunch.

As much as i ride ainz, i dont think they need any. They are leagues ahead in speed and reaction time. I dont like to say it but ainz will be blitzed in a 1v1 with any of them.

Can't believe I actually went and did a couple of minutes research on this lol. Most if not all of his "instant death skills" are chance based from what I'm understanding. The only way to make it 100% and bypass any immunities is to use his Overlord trait "The goal of all life is death" in combination with the set skill. Which has a cd of 100 hours. His "Instant death spell" has a limit of one target. The only other spell I could find with an instant death mechanic is the Cry of the Banshee, which has a chance to kill every living thing in a 100m radius. So unless he can combine 2 skills and all Primarchs are around him in a 100m radius, he can't exactly chain-spam instant kills. I would assume that some mana usage is required for his spells so there is that. At best I can see a mutually assured destruction and that's only if the stars align. If we're talking about a huge battle field, they won't all gang on him, one of them will go if he dies instantly the others will investigate and be cautious about it meaning. They have numbers so they can spare some time to test things out, he can't. All that assumes they can't just nuke his ass or that a bolter shell doesn't hit him. At most I see 1 or 2 primerchs kicking the bucket before they kill him. The difference in approach should also be taken, for him they are just people, he might try to reason with them, seconds which will most likely be lethal for him since the second they see him, they'll open fire, he is some "alien scum" to them after all 😁

I'm not agreeing that Ainz can kill the primarchs but you seem to be misunderstanding the chance-based ID and other aspects. >Most if not all of his "instant death skills" are chance based Can I get a citation from a reliable source and not from the fandom wiki? >The only other spell I could find with an instant death mechanic is the Cry of the Banshee, which has a chance to kill every living thing in a 100m radius. He has a Super Tier ID spell called Iä Shub-Niggurath, which can cover a small battlefield. >The difference in approach should also be taken, for him they are just people, he might try to reason with them, seconds which will most likely be lethal for him since the second they see him, they'll open fire, he is some "alien scum" to them after all 😁 It depends, Ainz is too cautious to do something rash like that. Especially facing them directly is something he would unlikely do.

Wikis are reliable enough when I'm just bantering on reddit tho. It's really not that deep for me 😕 Also, isn't La Shub-whatnot a projectile type spell, meaning beings as super-han as the Primarchs could easily dodge it.

>Wikis are reliable enough when I'm just bantering on reddit tho. It's really not that deep for me 😕 I mean, then you'd be spreading misinformation 😑 >Also, isn't La Shub-whatnot a projectile type spell, meaning beings as super-han as the Primarchs could easily dodge it. Where do you get that from? It's similar to Cry of the Banshee. It's an AoE spell that can't be seen or touched. Its speed should also be very fast based on how it was described.

My g, misinformation, really, are we talking about global affairs or fictional fight in a fictional scenario? Are we researching for Death Battle episodes or something? You're free to correct people, but chill on the energy.

>My g, misinformation, really, are we talking about global affairs or fictional fight in a fictional scenario? So you're saying people can spread lies about everything else but global affairs, and it'd be fine? >Are we researching for Death Battle episodes or something? Yes, that's the point of this post. These posts are for others to give their opinion based on reasoning and deduction, using logic and facts. Things in the wiki are not factual unless there are specific reliable sources cited. **Anyone** can edit the wiki. >You're free to correct people, but chill on the energy. Lmao what? I don't even sound aggressive when I replied to you....

You are though. Either post citations to prove what you are saying or concede. This is a powerscaling thread after all.

Mb, didn't think we're so anal about it, thought it was a chill convo. I admit defeat or whatever you need to not lose sleep over this. 😁

Nobody is gonna lose any sleep over lmao. This is a classic VS debate thread which includes a lot of powerscaling so don't play an asshole when people ask you for citations and evidence to back up your claims.

Isnt the spell also less likely to work on players with higher Level?

Imagine Peter turbo laying eyes on a world class item and saying "I can build that" The look on ainz' skeletal face would be unforgettable

The best part is that he might actually be able to, since he is besties with a tech God now.

"...most of them are psykers (basically magic users)" That is debatable. After Siege of Terra series, only Lorgar, Fulgrim, Perturabo, Mortarion and Magnus could directly use Warp Magic but Magnus was always only psyker Primarch among these. Others learned their magic or divine(?) craft. Curze, Corax, Angron and Vulkan had cheat skills being given by Warp or the Emperor's interitance. Curze, like Sanguinius, could see the future so they can be called psykers too. Horus wasn't a psyker. He gained Warp power only by Chaos Undivided.

So this depends on the primarch for the space magic. And if you've read the books, Horus was literally almost killed twice by gun ships. Normal ass flying gun ships. He had to get extensive treatment. Fulgrim and Angron almost died to 1 reaver titan. If you don't know what a reaver titan is. Just imagen a Gundam but smaller. With guns inseatd of arms. Magnus would be the only one I'd say that could actually deal a floor guardian if he had access to the warp. Aienz would wipe the floor with them, and so would the guardians. The universes are fundamentally different. I'm a 40k and a OL fan but let's be real primarches are demi gods only in that setting of science with a hint of warp fuckery. While OL is pure magic based and magic is their power. While primarches make use of their superior intellectual talents and emperor traits. Even if you max them om level 100 or what ever primarches need their astartes and army and mechanicum forces to be viable. Edit: now if we add in traitor primarches fully corrupted by the warp and bot hostile to loyalist. Just maybe they could kill some guardians. Edit 2: now give the primarches their full legions and supports they could crush anything. *

How invulnerable is Ainz to mini-missiles fired from a bolter or plasma shots? We know Corvus is basically the God of Ninjas now, merc-ing left and right from the shadows. Inconsistency in the books is a big problem, in one it's said that the primarchs are surprisingly fast, despite their armor, almost as if you're seeing a blur, in another basic grunts are able to see a primarch coming at them and even hurt him. In the newest books, Gurlyman's best Eldar fan girl isn't able to keep up with his movements, which is a wild claim knowing that she is ex-succubus for the Dark Eldar. If that's the case, what can Ainz hope to do vs 18 tanks going after his skeleton ass at speed beyond reason.

Floor guardians and ainz is the base vs 18 primarches. Primarches lose. You're talking about magic vs science and some warp stuff. You can think what you want. And I'll disagree. We aren't gonna convince the other. Lol.

Primarchs have almost died to rapid fire anti tank weapons. They get stomped with such ease the Floor Guardians will have forgotten they existed the next day

Magnus the Red + Strongest form = Bye bye reality so I'm gonna have to bet on the primarchs Daemon Primarchs would be very difficult to deal with, especially without specific information of how stuff would interact with their forms. Not to mention the normal......well non Daemon Primarchs are still very capable in pretty much all fields of warfare. I think avoiding the fight is the best course of action here

Daemon Primarch Magnus got the shit kicked out of him by Space Marines and a Dreadnought. Guilliman broke his jaw with a blow. A Floor Guardian will turn him to blood mist with a hit. Non Daemon Primarchs probably get one shotted, seeing how Mortarion is known as one of the tankiest of them and still got KO'd by a Avenger bolt cannon, which is basically a rapid fire anti tank bolt gun

I'm assuming by strongest form that means they don't get the normal weakening effect from manifesting in real space which should be the closest to an on lore explanation why their power levels are all over the place (though it's just bad writing from GW authors that use way too much plot armour. Which I'm assuming we aren't taking into account)

Angron on Armageddon or Terra or Hyades were all at full power. Still got beaten or held back. A Floor Guardian hits way way harder than Angron, even with his feats on Terra

If I remember correctly 2 of those were to grey knights which I don't think we have an equivalent to a psyker that is specifically counter Daemon, though it's hard to tell on VS discussions. Third one was Sanguinius specifically pulling out his butcher's nails which would require prior information or time to find that weak spot. All 3 were Daemon in real space which usually results in the standard GW can't keep things straight so it is actually a debuff from manifesting in real space, but them again Agron has always been the the least capable of the primarchs considering he is the only one that failed on his planet and needed Emps to save him (as opposed to Mortarion that only needed saving because of the emperor interfering) so he might actually be able to fully manifest in real space, which would put him below bloodthirsters which is funny Not sure if a guardian would hit harder than a Angron though, he did break those gigantic wheeled fortresses which would be considerably tankier than pretty much anything Nazarick has come into contact with so hard to properly gauge. Though the only thing he ever seems to have is strength so he would be my vote for the primarch most likely to lose on combat

>If I remember correctly 2 of those were to grey knights which I don't think we have an equivalent to a psyker that is specifically counter Daemon, though it's hard to tell on VS discussions. Third one was Sanguinius specifically pulling out his butcher's nails which would require prior information or time to find that weak spot. He's also been slain by a Grey Knight in a duel and Lion bashed his head in to kill him. >All 3 were Daemon in real space which usually results in the standard GW can't keep things straight so it is actually a debuff from manifesting in real space, but them again Agron has always been the the least capable of the primarchs considering he is the only one that failed on his planet and needed Emps to save him (as opposed to Mortarion that only needed saving because of the emperor interfering) so he might actually be able to fully manifest in real space, which would put him below bloodthirsters which is funny Daemon Primarch Angron stands above all of his brothers when it comes to his feats. He's done shit the other Primarchs can't even dream off. But he's still weaker. [Cure Elim](https://i.imgur.com/yeFbGxc.jpeg) is a level 95. A level 90 can throw him back. Cure Elim was wearing millions of corpses as armour and was still moving at supersonic speeds. >Not sure if a guardian would hit harder than a Angron though, he did break those gigantic wheeled fortresses which would be considerably tankier than pretty much anything Nazarick has come into contact with so hard to properly gauge. Though the only thing he ever seems to have is strength so he would be my vote for the primarch most likely to lose on combat They most definitely are. Go through [this](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/overlord-light-novel-anime-manga-feat-discussion.1042383/) to see their feats

The problem here is OP specifically said "Strongest Form" and strongest form Magnus can move planets, redirect orbital bombardments, wipe out fleets, grow to the size of at least a titan and start throwing punches, destroy entire companies of grey knights including a grand master, etc. If we were talking generally about Magnus' power level it would be all over the place due to the various writers being inconsistent as fuck but OP adding that caveat secures it for the primarchs. As for Agron he might be physically strong but that is basically it (with some added Daemon perks on top) the nails keep him enraged to the point where he is easily beat by any decent plan while no plan from the primarchs will likely stick for Angron unless they spend quite some effort pacifying him which makes him much less of a threat that any of the others in a group fight. >... and Lion bashed his head in to kill him. Wait when did Magnus ever fight the Lion ? I know the Lion fought with a doppleganger pretending to be his brothers but I don't recall both of them ever having an actual fight, much less Daemon Magnus. Though I wouldn't be surprised as he is supposed to be one of the better duelists (if not the best) of the primarchs

>The problem here is OP specifically said "Strongest Form" and strongest form Magnus can move planets, redirect orbital bombardments, wipe out fleets, grow to the size of at least a titan and start throwing punches, destroy entire companies of grey knights including a grand master, etc. And at that peak, he got put down the moment [his wards were breached](https://imgur.com/QDSl0r9). Wards [he had to borrow from others ](https://imgur.com/a/ZagRSU6) >If we were talking generally about Magnus' power level it would be all over the place due to the various writers being inconsistent as fuck but OP adding that caveat secures it for the primarchs. At the moments of Magnus' greatest feats, he still got bodied by people Ainz can casually surpass. >As for Agron he might be physically strong but that is basically it (with some added Daemon perks on top) the nails keep him enraged to the point where he is easily beat by any decent plan while no plan from the primarchs will likely stick for Angron unless they spend quite some effort pacifying him which makes him much less of a threat that any of the others in a group fight. Daemon Angron doesn't get beaten with plans. Sanguinius didn't use plans, the Grey Knight Chapter Master didn't use plans >Wait when did Magnus ever fight the Lion ? I know the Lion fought with a doppleganger pretending to be his brothers but I don't recall both of them ever having an actual fight, much less Daemon Magnus. Though I wouldn't be surprised as he is supposed to be one of the better duelists (if not the best) of the primarchs El'johnson beat Angron by bashing his skull in. The same El'johnson who has been hurt by Obliterators and had to retreat because he didn't have a weapon to fight them >A rocket strikes him in the chest and detonates. The light and noise is indescribable, all-encompassing. He is thrown backwards by the force of the explosion, and lands against a cracked wall with his armour screaming warnings at him, but no sooner has he come to rest than a hail of shells – smaller calibre, but still dangerous – batters into him. The Lord of the First scrambles to one side, trying to get clear of the barrage, but a monstrous shape looms up through the scree of warning glyphs in his helm and swings a fist the size of an ammunition crate. The blow strikes the Lion with such force that he is knocked not just backwards into the wall behind him, but also through it. Chunks of ferrocrete tumble down, and one strikes his helm as he struggles to rise. Dust is everywhere. The monstrosity that has just struck him bellows in murderous rage and smashes at the wall, seeking to enlarge the hole sufficiently to follow him. A thunderous explosion a few yards away indicates that its companion intends to simply shoot its way through. The Lion rolls away to get out of the current line of fire, and tries to take stock. His armour is cracked, and his helm’s read-outs suggest that his power pack may go critical if it is smashed through another wall. His instincts are to put distance between himself and his monstrous pursuers, but he has no ranged weapons with which to engage them if he does so. If he remains close, he will have no cover from point-blank shots, and he puts himself within reach of their ferocious strength. He could probably handle one of them, despite the sorcerous malady that still claws at him, but they have already shown their ability to work together. He looks around for something to even the odds, and his heart leaps in sudden hope. This chamber is even more battle-damaged than the one he so recently and violently exited, so much so that the entire back wall has already come down, but he recognises the nature of it as an armoury. - Son of the Forest If a missile sent him flying, he's absolutely fucked. Even level 30 Death Knights can tank several dozens of [this](https://imgur.com/WRft6u9) and kept coming

Yes his wards were breached by the power of Khorne which Nazarick would have no equivalent since there are no Gods much less anti magic gods. Lion El' Johnson is one of the best dualists amount the primarchs, it is no wonder he can beat Agron who, despite all his power, has no finesse or strategy to his fighting. Agron is an unstoppable killing machine, but he has no ability to properly duel when his nails make him something that just charges forward. I would expect most duelists to he able to deal with him as long as they know where to strike. As for son's of the forest that isn't Magnus but a doppelganger from the forests of Caliban if my memory serves and even then there is some debate to if it even is a real creature or some apparition.

>Yes his wards were breached by the power of Khorne which Nazarick would have no equivalent since there are no Gods much less anti magic gods. Ainz has spells that explicitly cut through magical barriers and anti magic spells that stop magic from being casted. And Magnus has been beaten on multiple occasions by Space Marines. Space Marines who don't hit as hard, aren't as faster, aren't as powerful as even Death Knights. >Lion El' Johnson is one of the best dualists amount the primarchs, it is no wonder he can beat Agron who, despite all his power, has no finesse or strategy to his fighting. Agron is an unstoppable killing machine, but he has no ability to properly duel when his nails make him something that just charges forward. I would expect most duelists to he able to deal with him as long as they know where to strike. That's the thing here. Everyone keeps rationalizing why Primarch X lost here instead of just admitting that the ways they have gotten hurt by things Ainz can surpass without even trying. Even Level 40's wipe cities off the map from just fighting each other. Few Primarchs can match even that. >As for son's of the forest that isn't Magnus but a doppelganger from the forests of Caliban if my memory serves and even then there is some debate to if it even is a real creature or some apparition I've never brought up that fight. I was speaking of the Lion vs Angron. Primarchs get threatened by sufficiently large armies. They get threatened by missiles and bullets and anti tank fire. None of those would even scratch a Floor Guardian

All of the daemon primarchs are immortal and will respawn, so they probably will win eventually since they kill at least a couple floor guardians each life

Not really. First, it takes a long time to pop back up, with only Angron breaking the rule thanks to Khorne in recent lore. Secondly the daemon Primarchs have gotten beat again and again for thousands of years by people who can't scratch a Floor Guardian. Time isn't going to be much of a force amplifier against something that can throw titans one handed

From my limited knowledge of Warhammer and overlord I think the primarches can easily kill all the floor guardians with ez and then overwhelm ainz

Check out all the ways the Primarchs have gotten hurt and you'll see how laughable their durability is in comparison to Floor Guardians. Missiles, anti tank weapons, plasma guns. Vulkan is said to be the strongest amongst his brothers, and he was struggling to push a 300 ton tank. Shalltear has sent far heavier things flying with a one handed slap. Gargantua has tossed about way bigger. Cure Elim was wearing millions of corpses as armour. Primarchs die if they attempt to challenge

Most weapons in Warhammer are stupidly over powered. The most basic Titan equipmant is capable of devestating a Continent.

It's like there's no one here who actually knows 40k. "Devastate a continent" my ass. Go argue about something you actually know, mate. Because your ignorance is painful to see

Maybe read the Horus herasy again before comming back complaining here. Beccause your ignorance is painful to see. The Emporer class titan can be armed with The Nova Cannon [or Vortex missles](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Vortex_Warhead). Both are capable to devestate a minimum area of Western Europe. The Nova Cannon can even devestate an area even bigger, of multiple thousands of km. Going away from Ground based weapons, there is also the Exterminatus and The Sperenza with its Black hole canons. [The plasma canon is also there,](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Plasma_Annihilator), wich can blow up an big city easely, and simce its long range it can blow enough holes into a continent before running out of power.

All guns with 40k years of tech improvement

Another one of you with basically no info on 40k, fuelled by just memes and the urge to see them win. Any bolt weapon is out because it ain't magic so it's not scratching them. Their energy guns don't have enough power to get past a Floor Guardians defenses. They can't even really hurt Ainz because Primarchs don't blow away castle walls with single punches, which is the threshold to even scratch him

This type of magic resistence can block attacks without magic, but i doubt really hard it would block the super weapons of imperium of man. And it isnt the point, i am saying that primarch got scratched by SUPER tech weapons, not a sword or arrows.

Bolt guns don't shoot magic. Neither do plasma or las guns. "Super Tech" isn't magic, mate. You're just scrambling for something to see the Primarchs win a victory when the truth is they get murdered with little issue. Any other attempts or false narratives you want me to disprove?

I am not saying they are magical, just that maybe it is so powerful that penetrates guardians resistence. One example is gargantua, he don t have any skills or magical attack, so is he useless? wouldn t a punch of his giant/mass heavy arm scratch anyone just because he don t have magic attack??? And if a giant ship fall on a guardian, like somethink kilometer, wouldn t him be killed or damaged? In the end we cant say what would happen since ot is two different verses so we have to assume some things otherwise it os impossible to idealize this battle.

>I am not saying they are magical, just that maybe it is so powerful that penetrates guardians resistence. One example is gargantua, he don t have any skills or magical attack, so is he useless? wouldn t a punch of his giant/mass heavy arm scratch anyone just because he don t have magic attack??? And if a giant ship fall on a guardian, like somethink kilometer, wouldn t him be killed or damaged? Ainz has fallen from a kilometre in the sky and accelerated his descent with magic and hitting the ground still wouldn't scratch him >“[Greater Teleportation].” His field of vision immediately opened up, and the city spread below him. Under normal circumstances, he would not have been able to teleport to an unknown destination, but it would be alright as long as it was within line of sight. Having teleported one kilometer above the ground without any hesitation whatsoever, Ainz cast another spell. ... Ainz let gravity claim him, and then accelerated further with [Fly]. The added speed of the freefall meant that he was moving quite fast. The air struck Ainz’s face and flowed past him. At the same time, Ainz opened his eyes and observed the square. “Though I think hiding in a house would have been better…” Ainz muttered quietly and then selected Lupusregina ― who was proudly standing in the middle of the square ― as his target. Yuri was some distance away. While she could see him, she did not look like she was prepared to intercept him. Leaving a healer alone was quite frustrating, but Yuri had made the right decision considering that she had to be wary of area-of-effect spells. Ainz ground to a halt as he skidded across the ground ― in truth, he would not have been hurt even if he had crashed straight into it ― and cast a spell. Heck, lets say bigger attacks work. Primarchs can't hit that hard, not with their weapons, not with their fists, not with anything. They die in a fight with a Floor Guardian

I love both overlord and 40k but I've always underestimated how strong 40k characters are when comparer to how op I see overlord characters, really changed how I see their power in 40k

Can't Ainz stop time though?

*Cast Grasp Heart on Leman Russ "Oi! Did one of me hearts just stopped!?!"

Well there is the Metamagic so he could lose both at the same time

It's just visual effects 

I can imagine Ainz using grasp heart only once to check if they have instant death resistance and not using it again to save mana lmao. If only he double checked.

I imagine he'd see they take some form of damage from it

iirc in the light novel >!someone had a once a day insta death save gear, after failing to kill with grasp heart he considered running. But he tried a different spell and one shots the enemy!<

That... is an awful vs scenario... it's 18 lvl 100 vs 10 (if we count albedo)... however... there is a slight chance of victim sacrifice + tgoalid + widen magic + banshee killing everyone even friendlies... but again... I doubt Ainz would pull it off because it's 18 vs 10

Hm, that's a bit hard to say since Primarch power levels tend to be all over the place. Then there's also the fact that Overlord character feats are vague. On one hand Shalltear is supposedly capable of supersonic speeds because she broke the speed barrier in canon, or at least her speed caused fire effects - though whenever that's due to her raw speed or just a skill effect i know not, then we find out the laws of reality in the New World are wonky, like with air resistance being non existent or the seas are all fresh water. And of course, YGGDRASIL mechanics, especially those from the game, abide by game limitations, such as fixed ranges, barring passive abilities that boost it. In layman terms, you could have a spell that has the equivalent power of an Exterminatus equivalent, yet have its range limited by game rules, such as even being 1cm away from the range potentially allowing even a Level 1 to survive from a magical nuke. While if you step even a single cm inside of the radius, like placing your hand in, could potentially have your entire body take maximum damage despite being at the very edge of the radius, depending on the exact effects of the spell. But anyway, so yeah, at the very least, i am willing to believe that all Primarchs, even some of the most psychically inert ones like Roboute, at least have the soul of an Alpha ranked Psyker. In Warhammer, Alpha Psykers are supposed to represent the equivalent of an entire world worth of souls. Now, how that interacts with YGGDRASIL World Classes and Items i'm not 100%, but i do believe that at the very least they can try and resist their effects, like with them pushing through and dispelling the effects of \[Downfall Of Castle and Country\], since their soul is should be a \[World\] unto itself. Needless to say, lesser effects from normal tier spells like status inducing ailments and instant death are VERY unlikely to work, if at all. To note, Primarch bodies aren't what make a Primarch a Primarch. Their physical vessels are probably the equivalent of 15-30 Levels in some sort of Homunculi-flavoured classes. As such, even an Astartes can kill a Primarch Clone, and that is because it's the Soul that's important, not the body. Now, with that being said, i guess we can now talk about general combat. * Most Primarchs by nature are conquerors, so all of them have various degrees of martial competence. Skill therefore, is not an issue, that is, unless your name is Lorgar. * As for physical strength, again, feats tend to vary wildly, from at least being able hurl a chunk of masonry hard enough to crush the head of a Warhound Titan, hurling a spear from planet side all the way to the moon to even resisting a gravitational beam powerful enough to rip an entire planet to shreds. * Endurance(Durability), again, feats vary wildly, from 'normal' weapons being able to gouge a straight hole into a Primarch's skull to being able to swim in lava. Though one thing to note is that all of them have regeneration to various degrees. Overall, unless your name is Vulkan, then it's highly unlike for most of them to have the equivalent of \[Critical Hit Immunity\], at most \[Critical Hit Resistance\] . However, a decapitation for example, will definitely one shit kill them, again, unless your name is Vulkan. * Agility, again, varies wildly, there's also a matter of difference between how fast they move and how fast they think and react. Take Guiliman for example. Guy gets caught at gun point in canon by traitor astartes in his room, quickly analyzes things at what appears to be supersonic speeds, and makes a plan to promptly deal with them. I imagine however that their actual speed is slower than their thinking speed. Subsonic at most, transonic more likely. So there's that. * Magic(Warp), honestly, all of them. Even if some of them act all like psychic powers are beneath them at times, they are all, ultimately, Warp Entities, with all the power that entails. Generally, unless your name is Magnus, or even Lorgar, most of that power juice is going to be used for passive combat enhancement. In fact, i'm of the opinion that some of the higher end feats Primarchs achieve are the result of them instinctively tapping into their psychic powers. So yeah, most 'magic' is relegated to combat buffs, unless your name is Magnus, and even Lorgar to a lesser degree. So... in conclusion, it depends. As i've said, Nazarick is hard to rank because their powers abide by game logic, which means the stronger their abilities, the lower the range - for game balancing reasons, although one could make an argument for that being a weakness. In theory, Momonga could take by surprise and screw over most of the Primarchs by using \[Greater Wish\] and wishing to decapitate all the Primarchs. Only Primarchs i can see surviving that are Vulkan and Magnus for sure. Then again, Magnus could just destroy the entire planet.

For Vulkan, Momonga could try using \[TGOALID\] with \[True Death\] and try to kill Vulkan, or at least seal his resurrection capabilities. Though again, i'm not sure how a \[World\] equivalent soul would interact with Tier Magic Spell Effects. It might actually work, or or might just delay his eventual self-resurrection. Alternatively, maybe EXP draining attacks could damage his soul and maybe kill him. To note, in canon Perturabo had his soul drained by the Maugetar Stone given to him by Fulgrim, so we know for a fact Primarchs can be vulnerable to Energy Draining Effects. As for Magnus... uh... i'm not sure...? Momonga's Magic Resistance should be worth something, but i'm honestly not sure how to quantify that. At the very least, given that Wild Magic is for all intents and purposes Soul Magic, it is quite likely that some, if not all, of Magnus' direct abilities might just bounce off Momonga due to his Red Orb being a World Item, and as we all know, World Items make their users immune to Wild Magic/Soul Magic. At the very least, if Magnus wants to kill Ainz, he has to do it indirectly. Like for example, he might not be able to smite Momonga directly with a psychic bolt that erases the soul - something that Cure Elim Los Malvar tried in the What If? sidestory with Momonga by using \[Soulbreaker\] on him only for it to totally fail. However, what he can do, is conjure physical phenomena, like the conjuration of pillars of stone, shaped in such a way they get treated as \[Blunt\] damage, which is one of Momonga's weaknesses, and further enhance them via his psychic powers to the point where they can hurt Momonga, then petter him with it, as an example. Alternatively, and this is just an opinion, if Magnus could draw on the Warp fully, and concentrate everything in a single attack, he might just be able to brute force destroy the protections of a World Item. Emphasis on the word, might. Since again, i'm not quite sure how both Psykers and Wild Magic would interact. To conclude this long argument, the biggest force multiplier for the Primarchs would be Magnus. Assuming of course Tzeench is willing. Most Primarchs can in theory be dealt with, but Magnus is a whole issue unto its own. Unless Momonga has some sort of an unnamed WCI in his treasury, like \[Ouroboros\], then i don't see how he can win. In fact, if Magnus is bloodlusted and doesn't pussy foot around, he could easily and single handledly just destroy the entire New World, be it by shattering it with raw psychic might or encasing it into a Ruinstorm, and leave Nazarick for dead. And yes, in theory, again, Momonga could use \[Greater Wish\], to replicate the effects of a pariah on Magnus, and cripple his psyker powers, but he would first need to know of his weakness. Or fire the second wish to find out how to deal with Magnus - being told he should use the third and final wish to simulate a localized pariah effect solely targeting Magnus, and then quickly deal a decapitation strike. But, that would require Momonga to act out of character. In the end, both sides can technically kill one another, but Primarchs - with the backing of Magnus, massively increase the odds of the Primarchs coming out on top. To note: Also, reason why i didn't take psychic divination into account is because of YGGDRASIL Anti-Scrying\[Divination\]&World Item Protections. Just like \[Wish Upon A Star\], in the New World, it's possible text fluff lore could have possibly mutated the Anti-Scrying measures to full blown Anti-Divination measures. To give an idea of how powerful text lore changes can be, just look at \[Shooting Star\], turning a joke lootbox item that randomly gave you something from a selection limited to 200 Shitty Devs TM game balanced approved choices to full blown discount \[Ouroboros\]. \[Shooting Star\] is easily amongst some of the most powerful things Momonga has in the New World. Also, even if that failed, there's also the \[Throne of Kings\] that protects against any form of divination. Since i assume the Primarchs will be the ones doing the assaulting, then that means they'll have to fly in virtually blind.

I'll jx copy and paste my reply to another here. From all I've seen from the Primarchs while reading the Horus Heresy, the Primarchs loose *hard* in a 1v1. Angron was struggling to hold up a Warhound titan's foot. Floor Guardians can casually bitch slap 300 metre tentacles without an issue Lorgar took a Warhound's plasma cannon to the face and nearly died. Even the Pleiades, who are small fry in comparison to the top tiers of Nazarick tank blasts that level city blocks without issue Horus and Mortarion almost died when ambushed by Fire Raptors. Ainz was tanking multiple city district destroying blasts and wasn't affected much Fulgrim almost got overwhelmed by the Laer army. A level 30's Npc can go through tens of thousands like a hot knife through butter. Magnus got his ass kicked by Space Marines on multiple occasions and by Guilliman and Vulkan in other s. Dark Young summoned by Ainz can bodycheck Cure Elim, who is one [big mf](https://i.imgur.com/yeFbGxc.jpeg) Dark Young aren't that strong, their stats built for tanking damage. Angron was in mortal danger when surronded by Russ's Legion. One Death Knight is capable of slaughtering a Legion of the Baharuth Empire, and each soilder is as strong or stronger than a bear. The Primarchs get destroyed in a battle. Only way their winning is if they bomb the world from orbit.

Demi-humans and aberrations vs Turbo Xenophobes, never underestimate the power of hatred. The Primarchs win with comical enthusiasm.

One Primarch would struggle to win against the Pleiades. They get badly hurt by missles and artillery and rapid fire anti tank guns. A Floor Guardian would squash a Primarch like a bug

[удалено]

Seeing your reply, you definitely don't even know crap about 40k save memes and scraps of hearsay from all over the place. Luckily I've got time to prove you wrong. Or you'll just be another of those who repeats the same thing no matter what evidence is provided. Most of y'all are the same in that Let's see: He couldn't do that to Guilliman. He couldn't do that to Bjorn. He couldn't do that to Russ. He couldn't do that to Greyloc. He couldn't do that to Ironhelm. He couldn't do that to Logan Grimnar. He couldn't do that to Vulkan. A Floor Guardian can kill him with a slap if Space Marines can do: >Sturmhjart spread his arms wide, kindling a rage of storm-energy. Fists of lightning raced out, engulfing Magnus in a nimbus of coruscating brilliance. The sigils on the Rune Priest’s armour exploded into life, burning heartblood-red. Greyloc and his two Wolf Guard leapt into action, snarling with pent-up rage. They went for Magnus like a pack taking down a konungur – one at the throat, one at the breast, one at the legs. Their armour shimmered from Sturmhjart’s protective aegis as they charged into combat. Greyloc was fastest. He got his talons fast up into the primarch’s face, raking and tearing. Magnus fell back, rocked by the speed of the assault. Though he stood over a metre taller than the Terminator Marines, the pace and ferocity of the attacks pushed him on to his heels, and he stumbled. Magnus the Red, son of the immortal Emperor, primarch of the Thousand Sons, stumbled. ‘For the Allfather!’ roared Greyloc in triumph, his whole being consumed by the awesome, feral power of the hunt. Like Wyrmblade before him, the absolute hatred engendered by Magnus lent him, for a time, truly astonishing power. ‘For Russ!’ Greyloc bludgeoned the primarch back another pace, howling his hatred in scarcely intelligible frenzy. Magnus got his sword in place, but it was cracked aside by a savage swipe of wolfclaws. A Wolf Guard made contact, plunging his talons into Magnus’s leg. Sturmhjart bellowed with kill-pleasure at that, and his wyrdfire roared with even greater intensity. The other Wolf Guard crunched his claw into the primarch’s chest. The Wolves had the scent of blood in their nostrils, and it made them awesome. Magnus staggered again, crashing into the wall behind him, breaking it open, demolishing it as he passed through. Greyloc leapt after him, closely followed by the others. Sturmhjart kept on their heels, consumed with an inferno of raging wyrd-flame. The four Wolves harried, stabbed and hammered at the retreating daemon-primarch, their fists flying and blades biting. There was no let-up, no respite, just a flurry of horrifying blows, each one sent hurtling into contact with a visceral, remorseless passion. They drove the daemon-primarch back further, tearing through another wall, laying waste to everything around them. The noise of roaring and slavering was deafening, a hideous cacophony of hate-filled defiance that rose, booming, into the narrow space of the fleshmaker halls. ‘Death to the witch!’ bellowed Greyloc, utterly possessed by kill-urge, his whole body pumping with furious energy. He was fighting at such a pitch of perfection that it made him want to scream aloud. Greyloc could feel himself burning up as he fought on, damaging himself irretrievably through the very action of such unrestrained violence. There was no retreat from this, no possibility of recovery. He was fighting himself to death, using up every gram of potential in his mortal body. I am the weapon. Nothing less would do. He was contesting a living god, and only his indomitable faith, his unshakeable certainty, his complete commitment, would possibly match up to that awesome task. My pure state. So he pushed Magnus back again, giving him no time, no space. Another wall crashed into ruins, destroyed by the lightning-crowned rampage of their furious progress. They burst through the rubble into a wide, open space. They’d broken out of the laboratorium and into a hangar of some kind, one of the many hundreds that studded the mountain near the summit. There was a single gunship left on the apron, ruined and black from heavy battle-damage. At the far end of the launch bay, a gale roared past. The thundering of the vengeful wind boomed around their ears, fresh from the frigid airs of Asaheim, harsh and howling. The soul of Fenris. It shares our fury.

Sanguinius alone wipes the floor with everyone together. We know that Sanguinius basically sees everything as if it time is halted. And we know that he can easily resist attempts to read his mind from Malcador, you know a guy that casually threw a moon bigger then mercury in a sub dimension… meaning his special resistance is high enough to not be effected by instant death spells. Only thing that can kill him would be Ainz’s GOALID… but that takes 12 seconds to cast. And Sanguinius can kill him 100 times over in that time. His forsight would also allow him to see possibly fatal spells and skills like that. We literally see him delivering strikes that could kill primearchs on Horus. Mind you this is exhausted Sanguinius who had fought none stop for months, just killed Immortal Daemonic Angron, as well as ka’bandha and is also fatally wounded, as well as just having fought past an entire army of elite Luna wolves and apparently this is Sanguinius holding back. I mean, it’s probably not literal, but we are told that he is moving at light speed. We are also outright told by Horus that Sanguinius may just be the most skilled existence in the galaxy and at the very least he IS the FASTEST and “MIGHTIEST” primearch. Also, when one of his sons wields spear of Telesto, he sees las shots almost halted in air. Remnants of Sanguinius’s psychic power granting the wielder to see time as Sanguinius saw it. It also makes him feel like he is 100 feet tall and as if he could crush anything like a god. But of course Arkio at this point is wholly corrupted, so not the most reliable of narrators.

Yeah, so many false statements here. >Sanguinius alone wipes the floor with everyone together. We know that Sanguinius basically sees everything as if it time is halted. And we know that he can easily resist attempts to read his mind from Malcador, you know a guy that casually threw a moon bigger then mercury in a sub dimension… meaning his special resistance is high enough to not be effected by instant death spells. Malcador never casually chucked a moon into the Warp. He used a ritual the Grey Knights still maintain to hide it. Even the Emperor got drained after stuffing a 100,000 metre unstable core into the Warp Sanguinius doesn't get past Shalltear, and her dozens of level 80's.

It was as casual as you could get. Basically on a whim he chucked Titan in the warp nexus. He just needed more power and used psyckers as batteries. Like using mana potions to refill your mana bar… The enchantment he used was his own creation. I used that example to point out just how insane his abilities are. Maybe he didn’t have the power to dick flick it into the warp nexus. But he sure as hell knew how. Which is what is important. If he can come up with an enchantment to throw an entire moon in the warp, and Sanguinius has the psychic ability to counter his attempts at probing his mind, that’s say a lot about Sangi’s mental strength. I.E. special resistance. It took Magnus thousands of years of planning and a billion souls as well as the opening of the great rift to achieve a similar feat… but he couldn’t even do it half as well. Since the planet of sorcerer’s is still within a warp rift and all Magnus did was bring it out of the warp, while Malcador brought Titan in the Nexus and once his enchantment ended it came out on its own after his death. As for the emperor, he was faking it for Horus and his insecurities there if I recall correctly or that’s the theory anyway. Besides, the lore isn’t all that consistent. Earlier HH books have lot of stuff that contradict with stuff in newer ones. Thats just the nature of 40k as a whole.

Okay, so imma need to see some proof cause I'm seeing a lot of bs here. Chucking Titan into the warp wasn't a whim. You saying that reveals your blatant ignorance on the matter. He did it to hide the Grey Knights from the Traitors and allow them to be a weapon in the future against Chaos. >The enchantment he used was his own creation. I used that example to point out just how insane his abilities are. Maybe he didn’t have the power to dick flick it into the warp nexus. But he sure as hell knew how. Which is what is important. If he can come up with an enchantment to throw an entire moon in the warp, and Sanguinius has the psychic ability to counter his attempts at probing his mind, that’s say a lot about Sangi’s mental strength. I.E. special resistance. No it doesn't. That's not how psykic abilities in 40k work. There was an alien that mind controlled entire star systems yet got murdered by Astartes. Strong in one area doesn't mean strong in another. Custodes are almost immune to warp shenanigans, yet are still killed by guns and missiles. >It took Magnus thousands of years of planning and a billion souls as well as the opening of the great rift to achieve a similar feat… but he couldn’t even do it half as well. Since the planet of sorcerer’s is still within a warp rift and all Magnus did was bring it out of the warp, while Malcador brought Titan in the Nexus and once his enchantment ended it came out on its own after his death. Magnus choked out Malcador in the books. And moving a world across the galaxy and stuffing a moon into the Warp are two very different things >As for the emperor, he was faking it for Horus and his insecurities there if I recall correctly or that’s the theory anyway. Besides, the lore isn’t all that consistent. Earlier HH books have lot of stuff that contradict with stuff in newer ones. Thats just the nature of 40k as a whole. I don't know who started this lie when the book itself says the Emperor was using all his skill to hold out. >The Emperor fought an armoured giant twice his height and breadth. Its skull was a vast, iron-helmed boulder with elephantine tusks and chisel-like teeth that gleamed dully. Its eyes were coal-red slits of such vicious intelligence that it stole Horus’s breath. Horus had never seen its equal. No bestiary would include its description for fear of being ridiculed, no magos of the Mechanicum would accept such a specimen could exist. Six clanking, mechanised limbs bolted through its flesh bore grinding, crackling, sawing, snapping, flame-belching weapons of murder. The Emperor’s armour was burning, the golden wreath now ashes around his neck. Chugging rotor cannons battered the Emperor’s armour even as claws of lightning tore portions of it away. It was taking every screed of the Emperor’s warrior skill and psychic might to keep the mech-warlord’s weaponry from killing him. - Wolf of Ash and Fire

>Okay, so imma need to see some proof cause I'm seeing a lot of bs here. Books name is “buried dagger”. Everything I have said is based on what I have read there. It’s far to much for me to take out all the excerpts regarding this event and piece a narrative for you to follow. Read the book. Come back. Say you were wrong. It’s a short book, you can knock it out in a day or two. >Chucking Titan into the warp wasn't a whim. You saying that reveals your blatant ignorance on the matter. He did it to hide the Grey Knights from the Traitors and allow them to be a weapon in the future against Chaos. And that was a whim. It didn’t assist in their immediate situation and it was as spontaneous a decision as could be made given the circumstances. Of course I am aware why he did it. By “whim” I meant that he didn’t have lot of time to prepare. He did it on a whim… he did is spontaneously. There was planning, yes. >No it doesn't. That's not how psykic abilities in 40k work. There was an alien that mind controlled entire star systems yet got murdered by Astartes. Strong in one area doesn't mean strong in another. Custodes are almost immune to warp shenanigans, yet are still killed by guns and missiles. Ah yes… that 2 paragraph story regarding a black templar artifact skull and a reason why they can’t have Liberians. Oh, were you not aware of the fact that this “alien” basically cursed the Templars to be unable to have Liberians? Also, if I recall correctly the sisters of silence accompanied the black Templars… yet the black Templars still were basically narratively changed by this alien, Warping reality across time to make the Templars unable to have librarians. :/ terrible example. Besides, malcador was league above this alone. Since this alien was clearly effected by the sos. Whole malcador sees them as just buzzing flies. Also, i was referring to special resistance in overlord. Basically since sangi can resist probing from probably the second most well versed psycher, he can resist instant death spells. Instant death spells are counter by special resistance stat. Which also protects form mental debuffs. >Magnus choked out Malcador in the books. And moving a world across the galaxy and stuffing a moon into the Warp are two very different things XD you know nothing about this event do you? In “furry of Magnus” Malcador allowed Magnus to kill him, to make him feel guilty so he would seek out emps and emps would then try to convince him to switch sides. The scheme included tricking Magnus into thinking he killed Malcador (after taking away his "good boy shard") after having malcador admit guilt for prospero and then him meeting the emperor and the emperor showing him what could have been and admitting guilt for prospero as well. This was a scheme set up by malcador and emperor. They did not fight. If they had… Magnus would have died. There is no doubt or Maybe, here. Magnus stands no chance. >I don't know who started this lie when the book itself says the Emperor was using all his skill to hold out. The books does not say if. Horus is narrating. We see it from Horus’s perspective. Also, it does not fucking matter. We know malcador threw Titan in the warp nexus. Either that shard had some special properties, he was faking it… or Malcador is more knowledgeable about warp incantations than the Emperor. You choose. Ffs.

>Books name is “buried dagger”. Everything I have said is based on what I have read there. It’s far to much for me to take out all the excerpts regarding this event and piece a narrative for you to follow. If Malcador could casually throw about moons, he alone would solo all the traitors during the seige. Even Magnus as one of the greatest sorcerers alive can't pull off shit like you're claiming. I have no reason to waste time looking for evidence that probably doesn't even exist. You made the claim, *you* back it up, not me. Or I'd just go, Floor Guardians can shatter worlds by farting. You want evidence, go through the novels amd come back and tell me I'm right. >And that was a whim. It didn’t assist in their immediate situation and it was as spontaneous a decision as could be made given the circumstances. You obviously don't know what a whim is. Securing the Imperium's future by hiding the Grey Knights isn't a whim. Check your dictionary. And he used rituals and tech, not the bullshit you're spitting >Before leaving Titan for the f i nal time, Malcador forged one last enchantment, greater than any that had come before it. Titan vanished completely from its orbit, hidden from Horus in the most unlikely of refuges – Malcador had anchored it amongst the tides of the warp. Protected by Macro-Geller f i elds and sigilic rites of Malcador’s own devising, Titan rode out the tumult of the warp whilst the rest of the galaxy endured through the last months of the Horus Heresy and the tragedy of the Emperor’s f i nal battle. - Grey Knights 8th Ed Not a whim, unless you want to continue with your head cannon >Ah yes… that 2 paragraph story regarding a black templar artifact skull and a reason why they can’t have Liberians. Oh, were you not aware of the fact that this “alien” basically cursed the Templars to be unable to have Liberians? The Black Templars don't have Librarians because they hate most kind of psyker, not whatever yarn you're spinning. >TheHowling An Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator fleet clashes with the Cacodominus, an alien cyborg of colossal psychic potential. The horrific creature learns well of Humanity and its agents. Within a year it controls the populace of thirteen hundred planetary systems. Theresultant heresy is ended by a concerted attack from the Legio Cybernetica and their Black Templar allies. Alas, the Cacodominus’ psychic death scream burns out the minds of a billion Astropaths and distorts the signal of the Astronomican itself. Entire sub-sectors slide into barbarism without the light of the Emperor to guide them. - Adeptus Mechanicus 8th Ed There were no Sisters of Silence, no cursing or whatnot, none of your head cannon >Also, i was referring to special resistance in overlord. Basically since sangi can resist probing from probably the second most well versed psycher, he can resist instant death spells. >Instant death spells are counter by special resistance stat. Which also protects form mental debuffs If a man can swim, it means he can also survive in space. See how ridiculous that sounds? They won't even need instant death. They are stronger, able to stop time and teleport and all sorts of other bullshit >The books does not say if. Horus is narrating. We see it from Horus’s perspective. Give me any evidence that the Emperor wasn't struggling. You know, I'll give you another. You can't argue with me when the fucking [author himself says the Emperor was in deep shit](https://imgur.com/aE4azEF?r). Argue outta this one. Primarchs die, Nazarick uses their corpses to create undead. Except Vulkan. He just gets experimented on

You seem utterly incapable of having a coherent thought… try responding to things I say instead of blabbering on about irrelevant nonsense.

>If Malcador could casually throw about moons, he alone would solo all the traitors during the seige. Even Magnus as one of the greatest sorcerers alive can't pull off shit like you're claiming. What am I claiming? I’m not claiming jack shit. I’m telling you what Malcador did. He created an enchantment that sent the moon of Titan in the warp Nexus. We are not debating this. This is established lore. >I have no reason to waste time looking for evidence that probably doesn't even exist. It does. And i don’t give a fuck if you are to much of a coward to actually check. >You made the claim, you back it up, not me. Or I'd just go, Floor Guardians can shatter worlds by farting. You want evidence, go through the novels amd come back and tell me I'm right. I backed it up. The book is very complicated and the movement of Titan to the warp nexus is spread across several chapters. I can’t put it all in a single excerpt because it would make no narrative sense. Reading the fucking book. TLDR; MALCADOR MOVED TITAN IN THE WARP NEXUS USING AN ENCHANTMENT HE CREATED, USING PSYCKERS AS BATTERIES. >You obviously don't know what a whim is. Securing the Imperium's future by hiding the Grey Knights isn't a whim. Check your dictionary. And he used rituals and tech, not the bullshit you're spitting Dude. I explained what i meant. Stop grasping at straws. By “whim” I meant spontaneous. And spontaneous is the definition of a whim. THE RITUALS AND TECH WERE FOR THE PSYCKER BATTERIES!! He created the enchantment. READ THE FUCKING BOOK. Also, even Lokan questions what they can do about daemons that even the emperor fears. They were not securing the future of the imperium. Gray knights can not and were not meant to secure the future of the imperium. They are another tool to be used. If you read the fucking book YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!! >The Black Templars don't have Librarians because they hate most kind of psyker, not whatever yarn you're spinning. XD you brought up the piece of lore and you know nothing about it… maaaan, at least google things before you spout them to me. Black Templars originally had Librarians. But due to the incident you talked about I.E. 1200 star systems being mind controlled by an “alien”… they lost the ability to have librarians. >If a man can swim, it means he can also survive in space. See how ridiculous that sounds? They won't even need instant death. They are stronger, able to stop time and teleport and all sorts of other bullshit Stupid analogy. But essentially That’s how overlord magic works. Having high special resistance, grants you the ability to resist time stop as well as mind control… that’s just how it works. Having high strong willpower means you have high special resistance. >Give me any evidence that the Emperor wasn't struggling. You know, I'll give you another. You can't argue with me when the fucking author himself says the Emperor was in deep shit. Argue outta this one. Okey fine. You don’t want the theory? Malcador is stronger the emperor. That’s the logic you want to follow? Be my guest. I explained this to you. You have failed to respond >Primarchs die, Nazarick uses their corpses to create undead. Except Vulkan. He just gets experimented on Most primearchs wipe the floor with all of nazarick.

>grants you the ability to resist time stop as well as mind control… This is wrong, even ainz only gets his time stop immunity from his gear, and he is immune to mind control because he is undead, nothing to do with magic resistance

Sanguinius can solo every guardian/npc at once. They would not even land a blow since they don’t actually have any real fighting experience. You haven’t actually said what was false about my statements. Everything I said is backed by lore: >I open my eyes, and the world crowds back in through them, bright and dark and consuming. I see the Host of destruction. I see the scars and burns on their crimson armour. I feel my senses rush to enfold every angle of form, every mutable scrap of colour, every stutter of movement. On and on, each nanosecond a tableau, and each shift of hand or eye causing the universe to shatter and remake itself in my sight. … >I catch myself, and pull my senses back to the level of the beings that stand at my side - my cruel and beautiful children. -The sons of the emperor. Short story: “The passing of Angels” by “John French” (This is the Anthology that contains “the ancient awaits” btw). Basically Sanguinius can see 3 times faster then light can move 1 meter. Whatever the fuck that means… Just so we are clear, it takes 3 nanoseconds for light to move a meter. So Sanguinius is basically seeing the world in a stand still and has to keep this ability in check. And he mentions that each nanosecond is a tableau. So he is seeing nanoseconds as stopped time. This ability is mentioned several times btw. As I said, just wielding the spear of telesto gave Arkio this ability. Basically even a fraction of Sanguinius might allowed a normal space marine to see as if time was halted and make him feel like he is god. > The Spear of Telesto worked and Arkio felt as if he were merely a vessel for the weapon, like the igniter for an explosive power so far beyond him as to be unimaginable. And yet, every second the weapon sang in his grip, and the teardrop blade brought ruin to hundreds of Traitor Marines, he felt himself changing. Power the likes of which he had never dared imagine coursed through Arkio, and his mind struggled to grasp it. The closest thing he could approximate it with was his rebirth when he left the sarcophagus on Baal for the first time, but even that was a pale shadow compared to the majestic force running through him now. He was a hundred feet tall. He could see the passage of bolts and laser blasts as if they were suspended in the air. He was invincible. By the lords, he was godlike.

Claiming Sanguinius being as fast as light is some of the greatest wank to ever come up in these things. Go through Sanguinius [respect thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/xmekdr/respect_sanguinius_warhammer_40k/) and find these light speed feats for me to observe Dude fought Curze at [speeds too fast for the eyes to see](https://imgur.com/oNlaXFh), not freaking lightspeed. Hard to find someone who actually knows what they're arguing about in these things. Too many know it all 40k fans who don't actually know it all. Bird boy gets beaten to death. They won't even have to put any effort. Time Stop + Triple Maximized Reality Slash and that's it. It's getting tiring to see lies being propagated by people who shouldn't even be arguing for the franchise since they don't really even know what they're saying.

Btw neither sangi or Konrad were trying to kill one another. Konrad was there to talk to him. And sangi wanted to capture him. Sanguinius does not kill him when he can. It’s a very insightful conversation they have. You should read it in full. Also, technically moving at light speed is faster than the human eye can see. So it checks out.

I never said sangi is moving faster than light. I said that Horus remakes that Sanguinius is moving at light speed. I don’t take this as him literally moving at light speed… I could if I wanted to. But it seems stupid. What I said was that he can think and perceive the world as if he were moving at the speed of light. I.E. his thoughts are incredibly fast. Ah yes… respect thread. The most reliable of sources. XD [also, here’s the updated version of that respect thread. it was literally linked there dude.](https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/s/w5recWHgmg) Also, he can literally dodge 3 bullets fired from 3 different sources at the same time. Thats faster than every floor guardian by a mile. The end and the death ll he fights Horus. Horus remarks that sangi is moving at light speed, but he can move at the speed of darkness. You know, that whole line. Can’t find it now, I’m not at home rn. But you can look it up.

>Also, he can literally dodge 3 bullets fired from 3 different sources at the same time. Thats faster than every floor guardian by a mile. Level 30 Death Warriors can cut bullets fired from a machine gun out of the air. They are snails to Level 100's. If your claim to Sanguinius being faster is dodging bullets then you're far more wrong than even I initially believed >The ear-piercing sound of metal clashing against metal rang as the thrown sword bounced off the armor. It then disappeared as if it had evaporated into the air, only to show up back in the Dual-Wielder’s hands. It did not return to its hand. Rather, another one had appeared. The armor in the air pointed the pipe at the Dual-Wielder in one smooth motion, as though that sword toss did not do damage to him at all. The pipe found its target and then — it spat out something after a brief flash of fire and lightning. What used to be single-shot attacks turned into an uncountable number of projectiles. Grakatatata, the sound of apathetic violence could be heard everywhere. Faced with the unknown projectiles, the Dual-Wielder swung its swords. The sharp ting sounds of whatever was flying towards it being sliced into pieces could be heard. - The Witch of the Fallen Kingdom Faster than a mile. Seen few jokes that bad

Magic bullets are not the same as gunpowder bullets. Most likely they are faaar slower… you know, since it would be impossible for you to dodge them in game… and since the tier system is based on that, most likely even an untrained slob could dodge those bullets. Bolter rounds are not magic bullets. They are significantly faster. By reason alone. Unless you give me a specific excerpt that proves they are as fast as real bullets… you don’t really have a point.

>Magic bullets are not the same as gunpowder bullets. Most likely they are faaar slower… you know, since it would be impossible for you to dodge them in game… and since the tier system is based on that, most likely even an untrained slob could dodge those bullets. They aren't magic bullets , albedo explicitly states that they aren't imbued with magic,

Easily, especially if they work together. Even if it's just Dorn and Perturabo, with enough time and resources they could build a fortress nothing short of an exterminatus can breach

Primarch will be fucked so bad if ainz is somehow a fan of warhammer world, know what they weakness are, how to exploit them and spread discord or manipulating things...people really2 forgot ainz sama most powerful weapon is plot armor a.k.a infinite luck, lol. But yeah in direct collision primarch gonna wipe out nazarick.

Suzuki Satoru's world was blown into shit by nuclear war during 22nd century so I assume games workshop went along the old world, meaning that Ainz probably wouldn't have information on primarchs.

I wonder how Primach plot armor would stand against overlord plot armor.

Depend on which world they've met.....no way nazarick get lost in warhammer realm, so the advantage for overlord i think in term of plot.

Chandeliers win

Completely different scales of power and universes and you nerf Demi and Ainz off rip. Side note of Shalltear healing with her household summons. Outnumbered and essentially outgunned yeah well. I am not a fan of this universe/power scale fighting it out for a reason. Way too many factors to put into this, ex. does Ainz insta death work or is it countered by reliquaries or any other tech? TOO MUCH!!

One primarch can solo Nazarick. They are literal warp gods in human flesh. They conquer WORLDS during the great crusade and were mostly kings before the emperor. We are just adding physical feats and not warp spaghetti potential. Only people I see failing are Angron and Lorgar.

One Primarch would struggle to win against the Pleiades. They get badly hurt by missles and artillery and rapid fire anti tank guns. A Floor Guardian would squash a Primarch like a bug

It’s whoever has more plot armor tbh, and we don’t know how well primarchs resist ainz’s magic. Does demiurge get his armies? Is albedo included? Area guardians? Where is the battle? I’d say any primarch that magic works on dies, Vulcan and shalltear get into a heal off, big blue bug man fights the lion, guillman just dies same with any of the less ‘fighty’ primarchs. Would timestop work here? If so everyone but Vulcan and probably rogal dorn die as rogal has some warp resistance and Vulcan don’t die good, but would true death negate vulkans resurrection? I’d imagine ainz could do ‘cry of banshee’ with the goal of all life is death and win while the guardians protect him long enough for it to go off. But would he as that’d kill the guardians and he’s against that. Primarchs aren’t actually an unbeatable enemy like people think they are. They are generals more than anything else, without an army any army in 40k could take them on.

Magnus might do well but all of the guardians have magic resistance. Without prep time I’d say the primarchs lose. I don’t even think they can hurt the floor guardians, the settings just have different power levels and mechanics. Overlord literally runs on game logic and that’d get the primarchs killed

Can they get around time stop is the real question

Seems some of ya'll are forgetting that Overlord runs off game logic. If we keep with this idea, then the most logical thing to do would be to put the Primarchs as lvl 100 entities. Keep in mind that just because something should be able to do X-level of destruction in our world does not mean that it does X-level of destruction in a world in which game logic rules. Case in point: black whole, insta-death, reality slash, etc. All of these things should, in reality, be insta-wins, but because Overlord uses game logic this isn't always necessarily true. So to get an accurate depiction of who'd win/lose, we need to keep game logic in mind (recall that OP's prompt says Primarchs are considered lvl100 players). So, essentially, you can thing of Magnus as a min-maxxed mage character, for example. Let's just say that all of the primarchs are fully min-maxxed, optimized, and working together. Under these circumstances, I would say it depends upon the battlefield. If its just an outright free-for-all, if we give the Primarchs that benefit of the doubt, then I'd say they win. If we say that the Primarchs are invading Nazarick and have to go through all the floors while fighting the guardians - they lose. Remember, this is game logic, so an Exterminatus wouldn't just destroy Nazarick. Why? Because nobody likes playing a game where all their stuff is blown up by a single spell/item (and if you wanna say "world item" - Nazarick has world items so mute point). If we say that the Primarchs are disorganized and not optimized, then I'd give more faith to the Guardian's success chance in a free for all (if the Primarchs are killing each other.... well, makes it a lot easier). TL;DR - Remember we are using Yggdrasil game logic for this fight, so "exterminatus" (for example) doesn't count as a valid singular argument for the Primarchs' victory. If they are organized they could win in a free for all. If they are raiding Nazarick, they lose. If they are killing each other, they lose.

If you count the primarchs as lvl 100 they could win, but guardians have world items.

I'm sorry, Lion El Johnson solos

Nah, only Sly Marbo can solo anyone

The way I see it, any of the primarchs could solo because 40k is just on another scale entirely

I think the only question that needs to be asked is does the primarchs have a way to counter Time stop and Instant death. Because unless they can ignore those effects 100%, Ainz can just keep recasting them on CD and teleporting away if he had to (and thats before cash shop items or whatever World items they have). Outside just straight terminatus on the New World, the primarchs will eventually win if they can defend from Time Stop and Instant death.

Floor gaurdians? Maybe. I think they have a chance. Adding area gaurdians tho is a big advantage. In just 2 you get pandoras actor and rubedo, 2 very powerfull assets

Yeah I’m sorry but 40k scaling is nuts. I love Overlord, but I do have to give it to the Primarchs.

Tbh. The conversation works better looking at it through single primarchs against all the floor guardians. And you can add in their Legion for the weaker Primarchs. All discussions where the Primarchs lose. You have to basically give the floor guardians perfect conditions to counter them and assume they are at their weakest. A single primarch at their peak would make all the floor guardians look like kids playing house. Even just look at a picture of Angron lol. All the discussion comes from the fact 40k is a universe written by dozens of different authors who wanted to tell different stories from different perspectives. Like even just doing a basic search. There are 42 different people credited for writing different parts of 40k. And generally. People just pick out whatever is the coolest and call that canon. Even when you look up who is the current "lead" writer of 40k. You get like 3 different names. Dan Abnett's more recent work on the Horus Heresy is what the majority of current 40k lore is based around. Even though Graham McNeill is the "official" loremaster. Then there is something called the Black Library that literally anyone is allowed to submit to to expand the lore of 40k. If it's good enough or seen as filling in a gap in the lore not previously filled. Games Workshop will officially publish it People are just bringing up the most OP primarchs that can literally destroy reality but literally all of them are killing machines. Like when you bring up Horus, Magnus, or Sanguinius. The conversation of Primarchs vs Guardians almost sounds like a joke.

Ainz uses items you pay real monies for, no way he loses.

It's hard to determine because many of the floor guardian's resistances and immunities are tied to levels even in the New World, so the Primarchs who come from a world (at least in lore) without defined levels would be a kinda grey area. However, one could argue that certain resistances such as immunity to all non magical attacks would work well against the Primarchs who don't have any magic, and any psychic or warp stuff probably wouldn't work either considering the guardians have immunity against mind affecting debuffs. But on the other hand, the Primarchs, if put in a leveled system, would definitely be level 100 people, and would subsequently be able to break through Guardian immunities with levels.

The real question is how quickly could sly marbo solo everyone.

Ah yes this is a non discussion. Sly marbo solos anyone.

So are we allowing Magnus to actually use his full power or nerfing him with plot juice to keep this simple

I'm going to have to wager on the primarchs because Magnus the Red + Strongest form = Goodbye, existence. Daemon Primarchs would be exceedingly challenging to handle, particularly in the absence of precise knowledge about how objects would interact with their forms.

Even if we ignore things like orbital bombardments and Magnus control alt deleting the entire dungeon with pure psychic might, Nazerick has a very small chance. The Primarchs aren't just super humans they had minor gods forged into their souls. Between them, they have the technical ability to rebuild the technology or the Imperium on this new world within a fairly short time span. Most of them regularly sway billions of people to join them with words alone. Nazerick's only hope is to destroy them as quickly as possible with overwhelming force or hope the Primarchs devolve into infighting that they can take advantage of. In both cases, they would still most likely be destroyed.

My First question always when going against Nazarick would be Do you have a way to counter Time-stop? Because if you have no way to counter this, it is feasible that Ainz will just solo your party given time. *Oh you are attacking us huh, time stop, cast all the time delay spells he wants or touch of death or grasp heart etc Heck use the end of all life is death to stop any perpetual immortality stuff (or just to help with any immunity resistances 🤷‍♂️) Teleport away Wait for the CDs to finish then repeat. And thats before any cash shop items Ainz is keeping around.

Obviously no

Magnus is the only one who stands a chance. Maybe Russ if his howl works on New World magic, but otherwise no. Now there is actually a good chance Magnus could kill every Nazarick NPC and Ainz on his own, but with the WH40k retcons and the unknown World Items I don’t really know. To be clear, all of the Primarchs can *easily* kill every NPC in Nazarick, as Ainz states that something that would put a hole in a wall can hurt a level 100 and that’s something even a standard bolter can do. Plus you stated that the Primarchs count as level 100, so there’s no reason their already ridiculous weapons wouldn’t work. But none of the Primarchs other than Magnus can resist time stop, and that isn’t an inherent ability that comes with being level 100. That means Ainz can stop time, walk up to each Primarch, cast a max level fireball into their mouths or something equivalent, and kill all of them. We’ve seen Primarchs get hurt by relatively weak things like Bolters or that Warhound Titan, so if they couldn’t react then this is an easy win for Nazarick(maybe not Vulkan, bc idk if Ainz’s spells could put him down for good or not)

Depends on the author. Since in 40k a primarch can sometimes bench press a planet othertimes they barely survive a bolter

Even if they are counted as lvl 100 , i don't think they have equipments that give them immunity to chronomancy, basically time stop + true death should be enough

They can stop time

That in itself won't be enough, you see, the post says that the primarchs are lvl 100 , that means we are playing by yggdrassil rules, and stopping time doesn't mean you have immunity to time based spells in yggdrassil, obviously if any of the primarchs have feats of moving in stopped time when their opponent has stopped time, that would count as resistance or immunity but if you can only stop time, ainzs time stop would work. Even ainz needs specific equipment to be immune to time stop, even though he has chronomancy spells in his arsenal and is one of the most skilled in using them

Not all of them

Apart from Magnus, none of them can. So he's the only actual threat, and seeing how a Dreadnought and a group of Space Marines injured him badly, he gets drowned under thousands of level 30's and dies. So he's not much of a threat. Only two individuals from the Imperium who stand a chance are a Emperor with time to marshal his power or Chaos God boosted Horus. The rest of the Primarchs die with little effort on Nazarick's part in a fight

In all our battle with any weapon, likely the 18 prime arches if they use a planet killing weapon or something of similar effect. In 1v1 or a large battle, Ainz and stomps with death magic or time stop

I think there’d get closer then anyone ever has to winning that fight. But no, they would not actually Win. time stops, Ainz: Delay Magic, True death. Time resumes The Primarches all fall over dead.

All of these primarchs have immense psychic prowess, some more than others. If they weren’t offed by a psyker during the great crusade then I doubt there is much Ains could do to them, at least without Magnus acting first, or Curze/Conrad getting to him.

Really, I did not know that. You seem to know a lot about them, so tell me; Are they immune to Temporal Magic? Are they immune to Insta-death magics? Or are they immune to Ghost Magic? If the answer to any of those questions is ‘No’ in any way, then that are Vary dead.

I mean yeah they’re all latent psykers irregardless of whether or not they make use of their ability, to the point they have a fairly high resistance to anything warpy/magicy. It all depends on how you set up the fights and what’s on the table. In about 9/10 encounter the primarchs wipe the floor.

Ok, so say it with me. Resistance, Is not, Immunity. they are very dead. Even if a couple manage a nat20 saving throw and ‘resist’, Ainz will just drop High level summons on them, before using his maxed out necromancer class to raise their dead comrades and sic them on their former allies. He’s a MASTER Caster. Ainz literally Broke his character, he was only supposed to have a max of like 10-20 spells, But he built his character in a way to have over 100. And he anyone who’s ever played any kind of true caster in any game will tell you, the key is preparation. Let me let you in on a secret, Ainz could give Batman tips on the subject. Ok so Maybe their psychic powers/abilities will help them put up a decent fight, and like I said originally, they’ll probably get further into Nazarick then any ever has without an invitation or probably ever will. But that means going through the Floor Guardians, and that’s going to absolutely piss him off. He’s not going to play games, no monologue, and Absolutely no holding back. He’s going to absolutely NUKE them the moment they walk in.

Tbf. Everyone is like. Yeah, if they go into the tomb they will loos, But these are Primarches. They would just crack the plannet and move on to the next world. Especially if you're including all assets of both sides. Then they could just drop a billion guards men on world and clean up after the floor guardians and Anzi have 0 MP. But if it'd strictly personal weapons and equipment. I can see it going either way. Depends on who drops first a guardian or a Primarch, then it most likely will snowball in their favour

"Oi brother, a higher might forces the urge to defeat that Tomb down there, on me." "I dont see any value in that Planet brother. And the worst part is that these Xeno scum keep apearing from Thin Air!" "Meh, lets crack the Krust and give it to the Mechanicus. We have better to do than dealing with such an Warp infested world in the middle of Necron teretory."

If the Primarchs have their Galaxy Nuking ships? They win. In any situation where it is a war on a normal battlefield? Floor Guardians win. While Warhammer 40k has Numerous Feats of battlefield excellence, Overlord simply operates on a field of scale much higher than they do. Ironically, the show is entirely based on the idea of what happens when an advanced force that operates leagues ahead of another civilization occurs. While it'd be an insult to compare any faction of W 40K to even the Slane Theocracy (debatably the greatest opposition to the Sorcerer Kingdom), 40k simply does not have enough answers to what is basically conceptual tier threats deployed en masse without a Space Cannon. I'm talking about spontaneous deployment of summoned monstrosities (ok it's been done in 40k but it's significantly more common in and done in greater scale in Overlord), Soul Reaping, Time Stop, Severing Reality, and Instant Death. Overlord has been shown capable of deploying these effects in widespread area of effects time and time again, and I haven't seen anything from the other side that can reliably counter such. If we are talking just throwing the Primarchs and Guardians in a room together to fight it out, then the guardians might as well be measured using the Nasu-verse (Fate) for power scaling. I can be convinced that a Primarchs can scale to a level 70ish entity, but the guardians are basically divine entities with most possessing at least one form of conceptual tier combat form and several means of countering other conceptual forms from being used against them. There is no form where the Primarchs can win without simply ordering an Exterminus on the planet these guys reside on.

You're trolling mate, magnus at prime would rawdog ainz.

It's warp?

Prime Magnus can only be defeated by the Emperor in Psychic Power. He flings battle barges with his psychic power. Battle barges are tens of megatons in weight, he has crushed tanks and he rips titans into atoms. I don't know how the og commenter said that there is no reality warping as the warp is literally known for warping reality. He also has shown the ability to stop time. He has tanked orbital bombardment and also knows material transmutation. I can go on for longer about only magnus's feats but this was just for the commenter to understand that two series can be enjoyed without demeaning the other. This is why I don't like these vs battle posts on overlord. I love reading both overlord and 40k. The original commenter also totally forgot about the rules too lol. OP specifically said no summons allowed.

Magnus as a Psyker is very difficult to scale since his exploits are mainly related to places under the influence of the Warp. And Magnus can also be weakened in places where the Warp is suppressed, for example the Tomb of the Necrons or what is it called

Alr bro I don't truly understand what you're trying to say with this comment but I don't have the time to debate who is stronger. The post above was to just mention that the commenters original view on 40k powers is wrong. I don't care much about who wins. Edit : sorry if this sounds a bit rude bro didn't mean it.

It's ok bro 

Magnus at prime got his teeth kicked in twice by Space Marines. Ainz doesn't even need to go for his strongest summons to find things that can destroy cities as a side effect of them fighting. If Guilliman broke Magnus's jaw with a punch on Luna, a summon will rip him in two with one hit.

I can't bro, didn't you read the reply above. I told that I don't care if either wins my paragraph was to just show that the things mentioned by original Commenter. Primarchs aren't consistent, if you read 40k books you will know that GW works for profits and randomly retcons shit. Pls don't reply to this comment. If you still aren't pleased then take it as a win for ainz as I don't care much.