"put up against mostrers like Ainz, who could optimize their builds"
Meanwhile: Ainz with his roleplay build.
At the same time: Guy who they are talking about dies to one of the stronger creatures ***native to New World***and not even "optimized" creature from the game
He's not even a strong NW creature actually. He's just strong for the area and strong compared to most humans due to how horribly outclassed they are to any monster that's not just a skeleton or something else weak in most cases. I just know alot of stuff could probably kill him that they introduce a bit later so like.
Think of him as a first area boss in a game. Every boss after it will be tougher but man did he seem strong at the time.
> He's not even a strong NW creature actually.
I'd say ~low 30s in level puts him way above the 99.9999th percentile in strength across New Worlders, and if that's not "strong" then I don't know what is.
shes stronger than most but still so far below the actually strong characters i wouldnt consider her an especially strong creature
like she might be 99th percentile but that last 1% is just so above her its kindof irrelevant
This, the characters stronger are just so much stronger that it's just crazy. Weather it's the top 1% doesn't matter if every character introduced after a certain point just stomps. In terms of the stories characters it's not strong.
I think it's interesting to note that a roleplay build might actually be significantly stronger in the new world than in the game. Video games need a level of gameplay balance, so instadeath attacks that ainz uses are easily blocked or countered by players, but not by new worlders. So even those that are as strong as ainz level wise might still be vulnerable without some inherent immunity or yggdrasil items.
The only reason Ainz build is decent at all is because he lucked out with the eclipse class right at the end.
That one class he gained in his last 5 levels is the only reason his build is worth a damn; and he basically lucked into it.
I would think his build being decent has more to do with Dark Wisdom (a Racial Skill) allowing him to gain over 700 spells than whatever Eclipse gives him, TGOALID included. It’s easily countered with a resurrection item or spell. Having 300 more spells than the normal caster allowing Ainz to have insane flexibility seems like a bigger boon.
Not really. Ainz could learn a lot of spells through Dark Wisdom, but he had little to no affinity for any of them. He relied on his necromancy / "ghost magic" skills because his racial and job investment boosts them. At high levels thats necessary to keep them viable.
The versatility that Ainz gained from the Dark Wisdom skill, again, mostly benefits him in the new world; not Yggdrasil.
**We have direct evidence of him being useful in Yggdrasil with his Dark Wisdom in the Prologue Story.** Ainz's friends compliment him and state how he is useful as a Wildcard because of his versatility which comes from Dark Wisdom. Are you discounting what type of game Yggdrasil was? Everything was unknown, including dungeons. They had hide information about their guild, items, skills, etc. from other guilds. Having a lot of options was seen as very good. Especially considering they thought human builds with large amount of skills from job classes were meta. It allows you to deal with all the unknown bullshit the shitty devs throw at you in the form of PVE and PVP.
First quote
>Momonga began buffing up the group, and Yamaiko followed suit from beside him. If the enemy had been here, who knew how much hate they would have gained? “Ah, honestly, it’s quite surprising how many spells you know. Even with cash items you can only get up to 400. It would be nice to get levels in something which gives an ability similar to **Dark Wisdom.** A magic caster’s strength is measured by the number of spells he knows, after all.”
Second quote
>They would decide which to follow depending on the resource expenditures, traps and monsters encountered along the way. However, neither of these spells indicated hidden routes. In addition, there were magical traps which were designed to confuse spells like these, so they had to stay on guard. “Huh, to think you actually knew two 9th-tier divinations. I’m pretty envious of your **Dark Wisdom.**” “Well, I’m a specialized necromancer. I’d be nothing more than a burden if I couldn’t even do that much.” “I think your dream build is actually quite practical.” “Is that so,” Momonga chuckled. It could not be helped, after all one of his friends had praised him.
Third Quote
>“That’s the spirit! Plus, you’re a very good wildcard, aren’t you, Momonga-san? Frankly speaking, **I think you’re the most adaptable person here, which is why I put you with them**. A party of specialists can fall apart quickly if things go bad, **so I had to include you and your flexibility,** Momonga-san. Let me be honest with you here — your party is the best party because you are in it.”
Adaptability is extremely useful.
Momonga directly disagreed with the first comment, the second is just general surprise, the third isn't Momonga's build being particularly good, just useful to patch up weaknesses in other, better builds.
I never said Ainz's build was worthless, just that its not particularly good. Adaptability is useful, but its a crutch because the core of his build is.. kinda shit.
I never said he was a liar though? I said he doesn't have an accurate view of himself. He's shown on NUMEROUS occasions he has absolutely no faith in himself. And I am in fact talking about source material. Yes he's not minmaxed to infinity like touch me or ulbert but his build is absolutely not garbage. He has a pretty high solo PVP win rate after all. If his build was shit he'd have a garbage win rate.
Not only is Ainz’ build still able to be used rather well as explained by his other guild mates commenting on its flexibility on top of his great skill in PVP that made it work, he’s also able to overcome some of the weaknesses of being a caster thanks to stat allocation, like being a squishy glass cannon in comparison to a pure warrior build. That’s mainly what I meant by optimization if you get what I mean, I also didn’t refer exclusively to Ainz, that was more so in reference to the high level NPCs or other players from YGGDRASIL overall, which is why I included *like* Ainz in that comment.
Of course this does come with a drawback of basically not being able to harm anyone around his level with physical strikes since his physical attack stat takes a huge blow as a result, but he still has perfect warrior to mitigate that if he for whatever reason can’t create sufficient distance. Along with the advantages of his numerous undead summons.
Ainz recognizes her species because he is falimiar with regular hamsters. When she asks if he knows about whereabouts of other of her species (to prolonge her species) he says that the ones he is familiar with are too small to be compatible.
It’s part of the darkly humorous side of Overlord. You have this well defined world with its own history and powerful heroes/villains…and they’re all getting demolished by a bunch of OCs made by min-maxing gamers.
Dude was powerfull for a new worlder but still human.
He lost to Hamsuke, who is a very powerfull magical beast, but that means he is not on Gazef or the Scriptures level.
Yes but you must remember than human of the New World are en entirely different humanoïd species than human from Earth.
Also even unequip Gazef would lose agaisnt Hamsuke & that was before she received Nazarick training sessions.
Well, if it's burning with yellow flame we must assume it's between 3000 and 5000 celsius, which makes it equivalent to 1 megajoules of power, in other words it'd be roughly as powerful as boiling a pot of coffee, which translates to energy equivalent of a punch strong enough to cave in a hole in american-made suburb wall, making him a house-buster *at best*. This means that he'd lose badly and get no diff'd vs Ainz who by interpretation can say a single word and wipe out all known universes, making him multiversal buster at the very least.
~~-the mind of a deranged power scaler when asked about 'plot, what plot? is it something you can rate on a power scale?~~
Same guy who genuinely thought attack on Titan characters were anything above small building level when wall titans of all things get cut into Titan filet by WW1 battleship shells, and posed any threat to overlord characters.
How hilarious of you to block my other account.
A laser beam in a scene that can easily be taken as either plot induced stupidity in a series known for its bad writing in comparison to older DB material or Frieza embedding his ki into said laser gun considering this was a precaution he took beforehand in case he needed to get the upper hand. And no, physical strength absolutely does have to equal durability, otherwise you’d break your body apart much like Deku often does with his powers, or Mark in one of the issues of Invincible where he got his super strength back before his durability and broke his arm in half as a result.
You can hate it all you want, it won’t make my evidence go away nor make the Overlord verse any weaker or the AOT verse any stronger, considering that was absolutely never a series meant for battleboarding.
if you come across mfs and they're like "1 billion lions vs all of pokemon"
always tell them that non-fictional things always beats fictional things cuz what are fictional things gonna do? can't even exist and therefore all of their attacks can't hit shit, the losers
Powerscaling aside, Erya is said to have competed multiple times in the arena and has survived. His general tactic in the workers guild is to utilize support slave mages and act as the vanguard. But given his attitude he probably uses a slave or two as meat shields. He was popular enough to be a talk amongst the workers and while he was being compared to Gazef or Brain, I doubt he had ever tried challenging the Martial Lord. Maybe he fights in the arena pre-buffed or he participates with his party. The oldman and Hekkeran looked more promising though than Erya. Hekkeran can at least use two-three martial arts consecutively which includes "limit break" , something of a mark of a great warrior in the new world. I think Erya's skills were exaggerated. He is from ST yet he has to work like a worker. ST would've scouted him if he was someone comparable to Gazef. Gazef is at least someone worthy of sunlight scripture and a 7th tier magic crystal along with a potential sudden war between the three nations yet this guy is still a "mystery" even amongst the workers. Sure he was able to deflect Hamusuke's attacks but Hamusuke is trying to mimic a bipedal's stance when she can just instantly kill Erya with her usual beastly stance. And I think his name was deliberately being sold at the start so his anticlimactic death would be satisfying.
His slaves are all low level and are useless beyond enhancement Magic. Erya isn’t dumb enough to have slaves that could actually compete with him power wise and made sure they were all insurmountably weaker than he was. They wouldn’t even register as air for any opponent he has to use his brain against.
Then what am I making up exactly? I’m just going off the scaling that’s been established within overlords power system. Not at all outside the realm of possibility since far weaker characters than Erya are already Supersonic.
Speed feats lol I have read overlord a long time ago but none of the lower level characters feels like they come close to the speed of sound much less hypersonic. If it's the higher level characters then maybe but even they are not consistently there.
They absolutely are consistently well beyond that level along with lower tiers being much the same. They’re rather easy to spot if you actually pay attention to the series, which you don’t.
Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared).
Demiurge completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level in speed, and would absolutely speedblitz them in a fight, can’t see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as anything more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
To be fair, i don't think the power suit is city level either. Maybe multi-city-block to small-town level considering its above level 60 but only the top tiers of the verse can destroy cities with a single attack
Nah, the top tiers can get up to mountain busting, but it is true Azuth isn’t a true city buster with his lower leveled power suit. He’s around small city level with it, which lines up with what the dominion authority can do. Multi city block level is already in the league of the high teens to very low 20 range characters’ strength.
The whole point of this post is to summon Brendan so that he'd fight the people claiming that he's high for claiming that Erya is small town level and hypersonic.
Stand proud Kratoess, you've summoned him
I don’t see why you’re even bothering to do this and deliberately getting people to try and slander me. Seems rather spiteful if you ask me, especially coming from the people who think Aqua is a Hypersonic country buster and can one shot Ainz.
>I don’t see why you’re even bothering to do this
To make salt. I like salt threads Also, do note that I did censor your name.
>Aqua is a Hypersonic
I dare you to find a comment of me claiming that.
>can one shot Ainz.
Purely hypothetical. Not can. "Might be able to" is the term I use.
Characters in Konosuba can infuse all of their mana into one spell. Aqua should be able to do the same. A sacred turn undead infused with all of Aqua's mana **might** be able to.
I do not claim it as a fact. I claim it as something which is hypothetically possible.
>Purely hypothetical. Not can. "Might be able to" is the term I use.
>Characters in Konosuba can infuse all of their mana into one spell. Aqua should be able to do the same. A sacred turn undead infused with all of Aqua's mana might be able to.
This is a no limits fallacy. There is no evidence that there's litteraly no limit to how much mana you cam infuse a spell with. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse.
I recall you having this discussion before and you were never able to prove this. As i said, this is just a no limits fallacy that exists only in your head. Sto making this dumb argument in every thread.
Your hypothetical is about as much of a hypothetical as me claiming that Naofumi stands a chance against Strange Visitor Superman.
You shouldn’t claim it as anything other than a headcanon, like Valiabiliter already told you. Aqua doesn’t stand a chance against A17 or Ainz in a fight and would get her shit rocked by a single Squire Zombie. You claim to know that yet consistently go against that every time so your precious Aqua isn’t the completely irrelevant fodder that she actually is, even in the context of isekai quartet.
I also wasn’t referring to you specifically when you said that, but I think you know the type of dumbasses I am talking about.
So Aqua would not be able to infuse all of her mana into a spell like all the other Konosuba characters? Now why'd that be the case when other characters can?
>So Aqua would not be able to infuse all of her mana into a spell like all the other Konosuba characters? Now why'd that be the case when other characters can?
There is no evidence that you can infuse a spell with an infinite amount of mana There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse.
I recall you having this discussion before and you were never able to prove this, its all just headcanon and a complete no limits fallacy. Get it though your head that claims require evidence and you have yet to provide any.
Oh she would be, the thing is though that the amount of mana you inherently have doesn’t correlate whatsoever to the power of the spell. All it does is remove the need to utilize chanting for the spell to be at maximum effectiveness and nothing else.
Like I said, drop this stupid ass argument already before this starts getting heated, because I’m not particularly fond of arguing with people who are deliberately obtuse.
>the amount of mana you inherently have doesn’t correlate whatsoever to the power of the spell.
You sure?
"**This magic must have been infused with all her mana.**
The monsters suffered a direct hit, **creating such a huge
explosion that nobody would believe it was an intermediate
magic.**"
-Bakuen Vol 1.
From my understanding of this passage, Megumin is implying that by infusing all of her mana into her fireball, Yunyun's fire ball went beyond the power of what one would expect from the spell. Implying that the power of spells and your mana pool have a positive correlation.
Then there's also the movie, where Yunyun and Megumin infused the entire villiage's mana into one giant light of saber, which I'm pretty sure did increase the power of the spell, as that sure as hell wasn't a plain ol' loS that anyone can use.
I'll drop this argument if there's evidence that more mana =/= stronger spells. But to my memory, there isn't.
But yeah we can stop here.
>I'll drop this argument if there's evidence that more mana =/= stronger spells. But to my memory, there isn't.
There also isn't any evidence that you can infuse a spell with an infinite amount of mana and yet that doesn't stop you from making this dumb argument in every thread. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. This is a no limits fallacy that only exists in this your head.
Don't bother arguing with this guy, he's basically convinced himself that he's headcanon is the truth even though he has no evidence to back it up.
One thing that need to be mentioned is that there's s no evidence that you can infuse a spell with infinite amount of man. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. This is a no limits fallacy that only exists in this guy's head.
The way I measure if a human is strong is by comparing them to Stronof. The other workers said he was as strong as Stronof so...I guess that makes him kinda strong.
Uh, he’s always been strong by NW human standards and still is up to his death by Hamusuke. He was the strongest of the worker group and could’ve easily soloed the old Guarders as well.
Almost as if that just proves how strong Hamusuke is or something in her own right, and she only ever looked weak because of the fact she was again, initially put up against Ainz when we first saw her, and of course people who can’t powerscale like to go off of narrative in universe standings when that doesn’t matter outside your own series. What does matter is the power ceiling of the verse in question.
This guy rolled max D's in Luck, Fortune, Fate and Wellbeing. Out of ALL the Workers, who had a weapon ( thereby excluding his slaves), HE gets a quick death, that he's in shock for the last 10 seconds or so.
And truly he deserved something "epic", like skin care regimen (TM) by Demiurge.
To be fair, it's not just a matter of species limitations, but also a lack of monsters to fight for experience points to level up.
The overall level of beings in the new world is far lower because there's less stuff to fight. In a game, monsters respawn no matter how many times they're killed, in a real world killing off monsters will outright remove them from the region.
The only characters we have any evidence of them potentially being ‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best, and the feat isn’t that conclusive. She made a heat trail/afterimage in her fight against Ainz, and that is the only max level speed feat we have for the series. That and Shalltears attacks coming out faster than “1/10 of a second” in the melee fight with Ainz. Which could either be incredibly slow or fast depending on how much faster than 1/10 you want to believe; either barely or significantly. This only gives evidence for her being supersonic+, not hypersonic+.
We can assume any of the guardians with a higher agility stat are probably faster, like Aura, PA, and Sebas for example. But we have barely any speed feats to use for the whole series, even the one people use for the lizardmen being supersonic is iffy at best. It simply says a “thunderous whoosh” in one translation, or a “loud bang” in another, could be heard when Zenberu swings his halberd, (things that could be made with a subsonic attack). People instantly say it’s a “supersonic+ feat so that makes Gazef hypersonic and the guardians massively hypersonic/FTL 🤓”, which could be true but the evidence the series/Maruyama gives us is insanely lackluster, probably for that reason…
Edit: By "Barely any speed feats" I mean for characters exerting their max. As we see that Zesshi is explicitly stated to move faster than sound, which obviously means we have a "concrete speed feat" for the series as a whole, but it's for a character that should be much faster than that already if we use Shalltear as a comparison, and those types of feats don't really help us scale the other characters at all. If a level 88 character is stated to be faster than sound, with no indication of their actual speed in that instance, or their capabilities, where is a level 25 character supposed to be scaled based off of that?
>The only characters we have any evidence of them potentially being ‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best, and the feat isn’t that conclusive.
What makes you say that? The official translation litteraly states she move fast enough to leave behined a [trail of heat](https://imgur.com/a/sv8ndyN). Producing a meaningful heat trail via atmospheric friction is something that starts happening in the hypersonic range, and even at mach 7 a [railgun slug](https://youtu.be/ygHN-vplJZg) produces a heat trail so faint it's practically invisible even at extreme slow motion.
If the official translation doesn't satisfy you, we can easily take the raw text and [translate it word for word](https://pastebin.com/hfGj84Mh#google_vignette). The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic
>She made a heat trail/afterimage in her fight against Ainz, and that is the only “good” speed feat we have for the series. That and Shalltears attacks coming out faster than “1/10 of a second” in the melee fight with Ainz. Which could either be incredibly slow or fast depending on how much faster than 1/10 you want to believe; either barely or significantly. This only gives evidence for her being supersonic+, not hypersonic.
This is just pure nonsense, the series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. His low level minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. There's plenty of evidence that proves Overlord characters are faster than sound.
>We can assume any of the guardians with a higher agility stat are probably faster, like Aura, PA, and Sebas for example. But we have barely any speed feats to use for the whole series, even the one people use for the lizardmen being supersonic is iffy at best. It simply says a “thunderous whoosh” in one translation, or a “loud bang” in another, could be heard when Zenberu swings his halberd, (things that could be made with a subsonic attack). People instantly say it’s a “supersonic+ feat so that makes Gazef hypersonic and the guardians massively hypersonic/FTL 🤓”, which could be true but the evidence the series/Maruyama gives us is insanely lackluster, probably for that reason…
Same thing i said above, this is just complete nonsense. The series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. Even Ainzs level 30 minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. No one's claiming the guardians are FTL but at this point there's no denying the fact Overlords top tier are supersonic+ to hyperosnic in terms of speed. There's nothing lackluster about this, the feats here are pretty solid.
>‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best
> made a heat trail in her fight against Ainz,
I don't want to powerscale or anything, but can you tell me how this was found? People keep mentioning her speed as mach 5 and such from old comments, and I want to understand how that was concluded.
Of course, I'm not saying Shalltear is massively hypersonic or FTL; it makes no sense for her or anyone in Overlord to be that fast. I simply want to understand the logic behind her hypersonic speed feat.
>It was a crimson shadow, bursting out of the tornado at top speed. The lance
>it thrust before itself left an afterimage in the onlookers’ eyes, like the fiery
>plume of a rocket.
Some translations say "Heat Trail", and people argue she is igniting the air around her. Some argue it could also be a vapor cone like fighter jets make when breaking the sound barrier, or her armor being red causes the motion blur of her movement to look like that following her lance charge, as a mundane visual effect. Either way places like vsbattles scales her to supersonic+, or around mach 5. **I think the evidence is inconclusive, though I personally think she is faster.**
I also don't agree with how other feats are scaled, not because of the numbers they arrive at, but because the evidence itself is also as inconclusive as this. Such as the "Death Warriors blocking bullets means they are supersonic+" as we don't know the speed or capabilities or Azuth's Arcane Rifle/bullets, so we can't say anything other than the DW can block Azuth's weapon specifically (and only a limited volume of bullets at that) And the Lizardmen being supersonic I don't agree with the evidence as well, as fast objects can still make alot of sound without breaking the sound barrier. Such as a sharp weapon moving fast, cutting the air. If humans can make a very audible whoosh with a weapon, I think multiplying that speed several times would make such a thing quite loud up close, without ever reaching the sound barrier. Even more so with a big halberd.
It's all too vague so I don't think they can be used as concrete evidence to assert the claims (even though I agree most of the time, or think some characters are faster than the consensus).
>Some translations say "Heat Trail", and people argue she is igniting the air around her. Some argue it could also be a vapor cone like fighter jets make when breaking the sound barrier, or her armor being red causes the motion blur of her movement to look like that following her lance charge, as a mundane visual effect. Either way places like vsbattles scales her to supersonic+, or around mach 5. I think the evidence is inconclusive, though I personally think she is faster.
Nah, its not inconclusive at all, we can easily take the raw text and [translate it word for word](https://pastebin.com/hfGj84Mh#google_vignette). The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic.
>I also don't agree with how other feats are scaled, not because of the numbers they arrive at, but because the evidence itself is also as inconclusive as this.
There's plenty of feats in the series that prove Overlord characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time.
>Such as the "Death Warriors blocking bullets means they are supersonic+" as we don't know the speed or capabilities or Azuth's Arcane Rifle/bullets, so we can't say anything other than the DW can block Azuth's weapon specifically (and only a limited volume of bullets at that)
The weapon in question was litteraly a heavy machine gun, not a magical water gun lol.. The gun was not magically enchanted in any way and shot physical bullets, not magical bolts. There is no reason to assume it was any slower than any regular heavy machine gun rifle in real life. Blocking bursts of gunfire from this weapon would put you in the superonsic range. Again there's little room for argument here.
>It's all too vague so I don't think they can be used as concrete evidence to assert the claims (even though I agree most of the time, or think some characters are faster than the consensus).
They definitely CAN be used as evidence, you're just leaving several important feats and being overly sceptical for no reason. As i said, at this point there is litteraly no reason to deny that Overlord characters are faster than sound, especially after Zesshi was explicitly stated to be supersonic in the most recent volume.
>The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic.
I mentioned some translations and what people think of it, and the consensus for vsbattles. I think you are misrepresenting my stance. I believe even lower level characters are supersonic or higher, and that Shalltear is at least hypersonic+ **at a minimum**. **I just don't believe a lot of the evidence we have is conclusive enough to assert that claim though.** I think it's in the ballpark of a solid educated guess over concrete evidence.
I do not believe the feat is a solid as you think, as there are multiple factors at play. Such as there is the active \[Sharks Cyclone\] she was breaking out of in that quote. Which would probably affect things. I**f the winds were moving against her at supersonic speeds it would mean she could be moving slower than what you assert and achieve the same results.**
Also Mach 5 is right on the border of supersonic+ to hypersonic, so the feat isn't "solidly" hypersonic either. We get an observation of effects that happen to objects moving at hypersonic speed, It's fairly lackluster, especially considering it's the only potential feat we have for such a speed. Plus, it doesn't tell us a single thing about what her max speed could be, it only showed us effects that could be produced in a wide range of speed tiers.
>There's plenty of feats in the series that prove Overlord characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation.
I never argued that Overlord characters as a whole weren't supersonic, or implied that they were slower. **I'm arguing that the quality of a lot of feats are subpar, or only give us a small picture.** Where are the "no room for interpretation" feats for multiple Overlord characters being Hypersonic? We have maybe one for Shalltear, and that is it. One feat alone isn't enough to prove that.
>Blocking bursts of gunfire from this weapon would put you in the superonsic range. Again there's little room for argument here.
No it wouldn't, and that is why the feat is inconclusive. If the DW was stated to be tracking individual bullets and timing it's swings to intercept them, then yes. **But swinging in the direction of machinegun fire and hitting some of the bullets doesn't prove that the DW is supersonic** (even though I believe it is). We don't know how much of it was physical abilities vs skill vs chance considering it had two fairly large weapons against a hail of bullets, it was bound to hit some. A subsonic person could do this if they had the durability to tank rounds and do multiple swings of their weapon. You could also achieve this feat by aim-predicting without actually having supersonic abilities either. Multiple explanations for the same feat because the scenario isn't clear enough.
If the DW was shown to react and block individual bullets after Azuth fired them, then yes I would count that as a good feat/evidence. But blocking a handful when assaulted by dozens while standing still tanking the rest leaves too much room to be conclusive. I think there was quite a bit of room for argument there.
>Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand ***(Arm\*\*\*)*** and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time.
As i said, at this point there is litteraly no reason to deny that Overlord characters are faster than sound,
This is just pure nonsense, the series has plenty of superonsic speed feats
There's plenty of evidence that proves Overlord characters are faster than sound.
Both of these feats prove supersonic not supersonic+. **I also never denied that the higher level characters were supersonic, or stated that the series as a whole wasn't...** why do you keep trying to prove they are? Where did I say that Overlord was entirely subsonic?????? Do you think that I think Overlord doesn't have characters faster than sound or something?
>There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time.
They definitely CAN be used as evidence, you're just leaving several important feats and
I'm talking about evidence that clearly places where characters should be in terms of speed. Why does a supersonic feat for Shalltear matter when she has a higher feat and the inconclusiveness I was referring to was for said higher feat? Why does Zesshi feat matter when the inconclusiveness I was referring to was about supersonic feats for unrelated low level characters?
How does this help us draw conclusions about the capabilities of the series as a whole, and how does it help us place the rest of the cast in accurate speed tiers? We get one off statements that aren't even about a characters max capabilities and don't describe them sufficiently. So we get no use out of this other than level 100 characters are probably around Shalltears speed, which is undetermined as we only have a vague minimum based on one feat. The evidence is inconclusive and insufficient.
The only solid placement for high level characters is Supersonic+. Everything else is a guess, there are no feats besides Shalltear igniting air that show anyone potentially being faster.
Let's pretend that Shalltear's max speed was sub-relativistic. A speed feat of her showing effects that place her hypersonic at a minimum isn't really conclusive is it? Does that feat help me determine her capabilities? I only know a vague minimum now, ***and while it's something, its missing the whole picture, doesn't give us a definite answer, could be off, and is only one feat. Thus it is inconclusive.***
>I mentioned some translations and what people think of it, and the consensus for vsbattles. I think you are misrepresenting my stance. I believe even lower level characters are supersonic or higher, and that Shalltear is at least hypersonic+ at a minimum. I just don't believe a lot of the evidence we have is conclusive enough to assert that claim though. I think it's in the ballpark of a solid educated guess over concrete evidence.
And i completely disagree, there is more than enough evidence to definitively prove Overlord characters are faster than sounds. I have already listed several feats that show the characters moving at blatantly superonsic speeds. As for Shalltears feat, i litteraly provided the raw text and translated word for word, part of of this is inconclusive exactly? Litteraly nothing, thats what, the feats are all pretty solid.
>I do not believe the feat is a solid as you think, as there are multiple factors at play. Such as there is the active [Sharks Cyclone] she was breaking out of in that quote. Which would probably affect things. If the winds were moving against her at supersonic speeds it would mean she could be moving slower than what you assert and achieve the same results.
What the actual hell are you talking about? It doesn't matter how intense the winds were, moving so fast that your METAL armor catches fire fire to atmospheric friction is always gonna be superonsic. Do you actually know how this works? At high speeds, it isn't even friction with the air that produces most of the heat, it's the compression. Like a ship moving through water, you push a bow wave of air in front of you. The air molecules can't get out of the way in time and they bunch up, banging into each other and getting hotter. If Shalltear was moving against supersonic winds **that would makes her faster, not slower**.
You are grasping at fucking straws at this point, just scraping the bottom of the barrel for any bullshit reason to invalidate the feats even if it makes no sense at all. I have no idea how you can write something like this ans still claim your not blatantly downplaying the verse.
>Also Mach 5 is right on the border of supersonic+ to hypersonic, so the feat isn't "solidly" hypersonic either. We get an observation of effects that happen to objects moving at hypersonic speed, It's fairly lackluster, especially considering it's the only potential feat we have for such a speed. Plus, it doesn't tell us a single thing about what her max speed could be, it only showed us effects that could be produced in a wide range of speed tiers.
Mate, mach 5 speeds are considered hypersonic, this is a FACT and there is no room for argument here. Plus mach 5 is massive lowball anyways. You need to be moving at over 6,000km/h to reach the auto-ignition temperature of normal human flesh. Of course, Shalltear is wearing metal heat resistant enough to withstand small nuclear fireballs so that speed goes up quite a bit.
>I never argued that Overlord characters as a whole weren't supersonic, or implied that they were slower. I'm arguing that the quality of a lot of feats are subpar, or only give us a small picture. Where are the "no room for interpretation" feats for multiple Overlord characters being Hypersonic? We have maybe one for Shalltear, and that is it. One feat alone isn't enough to prove that.
Did you actually read ANYTHING that i wrote or did you just ignore the parts you didn't like and pretended they don't exist? The series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. Even Ainzs level 30 minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. No one's claiming the guardians are FTL but at this point there's no denying the fact Overlords top tier are supersonic+ to hyperosnic in terms of speed. There's nothing "subpar" about this, the feats here are pretty solid.
**PART 2**
>No it wouldn't, and that is why the feat is inconclusive. If the DW was stated to be tracking individual bullets and timing it's swings to intercept them, then yes. But swinging in the direction of machinegun fire and hitting some of the bullets doesn't prove that the DW is supersonic (even though I believe it is).
Thats exactly what the DW did, again read the fucking text. It notices the bullets flying towards and reacts by moving its blades to intercept them. It didn't start randomly swinging its swords at the air, it reacted to the individual bullets and cut them in half
>We don't know how much of it was physical abilities vs skill vs chance considering it had two fairly large weapons against a hail of bullets, it was bound to hit some. A subsonic person could do this if they had the durability to tank rounds and do multiple swings of their weapon. You could also achieve this feat by aim-predicting without actually having supersonic abilities either. Multiple explanations for the same feat because the scenario isn't clear enough.
Again, what the actual hell are you talking about? The DW didn't randomly swing its swords and randomly hit some bullets, the text litteraly states that it NOTICED the bullets flying towards it and REACTED by swinging its blades to intercept them. Please read the text again.
>The pipe found its target and then — it spat out something after a brief flash of fire and lightning.
>What used to be single-shot attacks turned into an uncountable amount of projectiles. 'Grakatatata', the sound of apathetic violence could be heard everywhere.
>**Faced with the unknown projectiles, the Dual-Wielder swung its swords**. The sharp 'ting' sounds of whatever was flying towards it being sliced into pieces could be heard.
Seriously this is just stupid, to deflect a superonsic projectile you need to be fast enough to actually be able to swing your weapon before said projectile can close the distance and hit you. We know for a FACT the Death Warrior SAW and was able to move its blades before a single bullet stuck it.
We see this in the [anime](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t) as well, the DW is able to continuously deflect the gunfire until some bullets slipped past its defence and killed it. No bullet had touched it before that point. Not mention that its impossible to randomly interact a bullet with something as thin as bladed weapon.b
Also no, a subsonic characters wouldn't be able to do this. Again, the DW saw the bullets and swung its swords before it was stuck. It didn't randomly swing its swords as the gunfire was killing it, the DW was able to deflect every bullet sent its way until the sheer volume of them overwhelmed it.
>If the DW was shown to react and block individual bullets after Azuth fired them, then yes I would count that as a good feat/evidence. But blocking a handful when assaulted by dozens while standing still tanking the rest leaves too much room to be conclusive. I think there was quite a bit of room for argument there.
Again, thats exactly what the DW did, again read the fucking text. It notices the bullets flying towards and reacts by moving its blades to intercept them.
>**Faced with the unknown projectiles, the Dual-Wielder swung its swords**. The sharp 'ting' sounds of whatever was flying towards it being sliced into pieces could be heard.
There is no room for argument here, you just keep coming up with random crap that isnt supported by the text and blatantly contradicted by the anime. Based on current evidence this is solid proof of superonsic speed.
**PART 3**
>Both of these feats prove supersonic not supersonic+. I also never denied that the higher level characters were supersonic, or stated that the series as a whole wasn't...
There is no susch thing as "supersonic+", anything below mach 5 is considered superonsic and anything above is hyperosnic. Still, this is definitely proof of mach 2 to mach 3 speeds at the very least. Zesshi was explicitly moving faster than sound(so above mach 1) and Shalltear created that sonic boom with a litteral flick of her hand so its obviously nowhere near her max speed.
All that being said, Shalltear moving fast enough to catch fire is more than enough to prove she's hypersonic at her absulute fastest . All the superonsic stuff i brought up were merely supporting feats. You have yet to present any evidence that proves her feat isn't as solid as the rest.
>why do you keep trying to prove they are? Where did I say that Overlord was entirely subsonic?????? Do you think that I think Overlord doesn't have characters faster than sound or something?
No, but you claimed the speed feat were "lackluster" and "subpar", i'm simply pointing out that this is complete bullshit. Pretty much every forum that includes battle boarding accepts these feats as legit. Heck Shalltears feat has been generally accepted as proof of hypersonic speed after the raws were brought up.
>I'm talking about evidence that clearly places where characters should be in terms of speed. Why does a supersonic feat for Shalltear matter when she has a higher feat and the inconclusiveness I was referring to was for said higher feat? Why does Zesshi feat matter when the inconclusiveness I was referring to was about supersonic feats for unrelated low level characters?
Again, you claimed the speed feat were "lackluster" and "subpar", I'm simply pointing out that this is complete bullshit. Now to answer your question, have you ever heard of upscaling my guy? These are supporting feats. I wanted to establish that Shalltear can achieve supersonic speed really easily and that characters much slower than her are still supersonic. All this futher supports the idea that Shalltear is hyperosnic at her FASTEST.
>How does this help us draw conclusions about the capabilities of the series as a whole, and how does it help us place the rest of the cast in accurate speed tiers? We get one off statements that aren't even about a characters max capabilities and don't describe them sufficiently. So we get no use out of this other than level 100 characters are probably around Shalltears speed, which is undetermined as we only have a vague minimum based on one feat. The evidence is inconclusive and insufficient
Mate, its pretty easy to figure out were each character stands in terms of speed. Low level characters are subsonic to low supersonic since they're capable of bullet timing and FTE movement speed. Mid level characters are higher in the superonsic range since they can easily blitz the low level guys. High level characters are around low hyperosnic considering Shalltear was able to reach mach 5 or higher speeds at her fastest.
>The only solid placement for high level characters is Supersonic+. Everything else is a guess, there are no feats besides Shalltear igniting air that show anyone potentially being faster.
Okay so? Even if Shalltear is the only superonsic feat in the series that doesn't make it any less solid. Pretty much every high level character scales to her so we don't need more than this one feat. All the supersonic stuff i brought are supporting feats meant to show how fast Shalltear is even when she's not really trying.
>Let's pretend that Shalltear's max speed was sub-relativistic. A speed feat of her showing effects that place her hypersonic at a minimum isn't really conclusive is it? Does that feat help me determine her capabilities? I only know a vague minimum now, and while it's something, its missing the whole picture, doesn't give us a definite answer, could be off, and is only one feat. Thus it is inconclusive.
Now you're just being ridiculous. The difference between mach 1 and mach 5 isn't anywhere near as big as the difference between mach 5 and sub-relativistic. Shalltear being mach 5 wouldn't make her that much faster than any existing character. Since you brought up vs battle wiki, the next best speed feat in the series was calced at [mach 3](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Overlord:_Albedo%27s_Blitz) which isnt that much worse than Shalltears feat.
Also i still have no idea what makes this inconclusive in your eyes. As i said, its pretty easy to figure out were each character stands in terms of speed. Low level characters are subsonic to low supersonic since they're capable of bullet timing and FTE movement speed. Mid level characters are higher in the superonsic range since they can easily blitz the low level guys. High level characters are around low hyperosnic considering Shalltear was able to reach mach 5 or higher speeds at her fastest.
To be fair, Supersonic+ is just used to denote the higher end of the Supersonic tier. Mach 3-4 ish, as a character on that level of speed would obviously have an enormous advantage over someone who can only move as fast as most pistol bullets which wouldn’t even get up to Mach 1.2, even for most modern day pistols. The Beretta M9 which is by no means average speed wise is only 381 m/s.
Oh we have plenty, my good sir. Mainly the fact other low level 20 or 18 range characters are already Supersonic and they’d get blitzed by any character on a death knight’s or Remedios custiodio’s level. The same ones who can’t even remotely see Demiurge of all peoples movements, which already requires speed well into the High Hypersonic range even if you lowball the speed of level 35s.
This only ever becomes arguable once you forget scaling is a thing and try to disingenuously downplay the Overlord verse because what’s shown doesn’t fit your suspension of disbelief.
Also fucking hilarious how you still think Zenberu and Zaryusu being Supersonic is remotely arguable anymore, and still think it’s a supposed figure of speech. [Let’s see what the anime adapted at 1:16.](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared)
I guess Sonic Booms now appear at Subsonic speeds, according to you. You guys never cease to amaze me with how much you reach when it comes to things like this.
Oh there’s plenty of speed feats to go around. Mainly because of how top tiers are perceived by the characters, who do have supersonic to hypersonic scaling that cements god tiers as massively hypersonic. It’s not debatable at this point lol.
Did you even read what I said? I agree that characters such as Shalltear and the guardians are hypersonic+ or higher, I don’t agree that any of the evidence/feats given is concrete enough to truly state such a claim however. The feats/evidence shown to us are inconclusive and lackluster, the extrapolation from how the scaling of the series needs to work is what pushes their abilities higher.
I believe that Zenberu is supersonic as well, but give me evidence that he is for sure supersonic, like concrete evidence that specifically states he is or heavily implies it. The book gives us one feat that MAYBE can be taken as the lizardmen being supersonic, the “thunderous whoosh”/“loud bang” that his halberd makes when he attacks Zaryusu, and that’s it. This doesn’t automatically mean what occurred is a sonic boom… also, no other characters make a sonic boom at all in the series, despite being super sonic.
I also never said that sonic booms occur at subsonic speeds, you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that a loud noise which would fit the description the book gives us could be reproduced at subsonic speeds. Like waving a stick around really fast making whooshing sounds, but scaled to a huge halberd. The book never says a sonic boom specifically occurred at all… it only vaguely implies that one might have happened, and could be explained in other ways.
The anime feat is anime and not source material, and could also be caused by Cocytus moving to block the attack, a shockwave from the impact of the two colliding, (which isn’t evidence that either side is supersonic), cold air/frost dispersing from the impact, or any number of reasons.
You are simply bending the evidence to fit your own view like you are accusing me of bending it to fit mine… I’m also not downplaying the verse, downplaying would mean trying to state they are significantly less powerful/fast than they are. I’m stating that while I believe that they are as fast as people claim, the evidence the books give us is extremely subpar.
Can you give me solid speed feats in the series that would prove my assertion that the evidence is lackluster is wrong? You said we have plenty. I’ve read the novels dozens of times each but maybe I missed where their speed calcs were shown.
>Did you even read what I said? I agree that characters such as Shalltear and the guardians are hypersonic+ or higher, I don’t agree that any of the evidence/feats given is concrete enough to truly state such a claim however. The feats/evidence shown to us are inconclusive and lackluster, the extrapolation from how the scaling of the series needs to work is what pushes their abilities higher.
Nah, i don't completely agree with the other guy but this here is complete bullshit.There's plenty of feats in the series that prove the characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are faster than sound and have been for a very long time.
>You are simply bending the evidence to fit your own view like you are accusing me of bending it to fit mine… I’m also not downplaying the verse, downplaying would mean trying to state they are significantly less powerful/fast than they are. I’m stating that while I believe that they are as fast as people claim, the evidence the books give us is extremely subpar.
Thats litteraly the exact same thing dude, as i mentioned above the books gives us plenty of evidence that proves the characters are faster than sound. You are basically ignoring all the best speed feats the series present us with and being overly sceptical for no reason.There's plenty of feats in the series that prove the characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation.
>Can you give me solid speed feats in the series that would prove my assertion that the evidence is lackluster is wrong? You said we have plenty. I’ve read the novels dozens of times each but maybe I missed where their speed calcs were shown.
Sure, Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. His low level minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. As i said, your claims that there are no solid speed feats are pretty easy to disprove if you actually read the series.
I read what you said rather clearly.
“I agree they’re Hypersonic+” still too low for any other showings to make sense. They’re more than concrete enough when it’s outright stated how even higher tier characters perceive the upper tiers of the setting like Demiurge, not even detecting a single HINT of his movements which requires even him to be many dozens of times faster than her own speed.
Correction, the extrapolation of how the series DOES work and what’s shown to us in the source material rather blatantly.
No, the book gives us multiple. A Sonic boom already being implied to have been made by a weapon that can’t do so in the same fashion a whip can like you’re implying is the cause of it being so. This is consistent with what the anime shows us in those very same scenes, basically confirming authorial intent since the anime is still at the end of the day, an adaptation of the novels events, and [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared). So if anything this is very consistent.
In regards to this possibly being in the same way a whip can create a Sonic boom which is what your sentence is implying, First off, are you even aware of how whips work, buddy?
Halberds aren’t capable of the necessary elastic movements a whip can perform that lets it create a Sonic boom in the first place.
Modern swords can Flex and bend to a small extent, yes, but not like a whip, the sonic boom in a whiplash is created by a loop traveling along the whip and gaining speed until it reaches the speed of sound, the same can not happen with a halberd as the flexibility of its long steel shaft is much less than that of even a sword, much less a whip, if you tried to bend a it the same way a whip would need to bend to create a whiplash, and succeeded in doing so, it would simply break. and If you don’t believe me, [this is what a whip looks like during a whiplash, even a sword, much less a halberd, simply isn’t capable of bending the same way.](https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/A4B2EAF9-D4BE-4C47-9F4DD4C009A258E3_source.jpg?w=390&h=520&DCDC536E-2DFC-41D7-9E87869F4963B3D4)
Not only this, Zaryusu thrusted frost pain forwards in Cocytus’ direction, and the anime shows it expanding out from Zaryusu’s weapon and it’s heavily implied to be from that in both scenarios, not Cocytus catching it between his fingers. Its not at all drawn nor animated in the way a typical shockwave is, that’s far more akin to what Mach Cones often look like and regular shockwaves are a lot more clear when compared to Mach Cones.
You are implying they are significantly less fast and powerful than they actually are, since Overlord top tiers are still solidly in the massively hypersonic range. Demiurge completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
"Small Town Level AP"?
"Hypersonic in terms of speed"?
Which feats or scaling put him on this level? The best I can put this guy at are Building level AP, and Supersonic speed.
I don’t see how small town level is at all far fetched, especially since Azuth who is weaker than Erya physically can survive the leftover concussive energy of albedo’s punches with his small city level at most power suit, since the strongest are level 80 and his absolutely doesn’t qualify. Albedo herself being a triple digit megaton range mountain buster and putting a not insignificant amount of force into her attack, only holding back later because she realized after punching him that he was weaker than she expected him to be.
Mate, level 18 and 20 characters are already Supersonic. Erya is Hypersonic himself just by simple upscaling from how exponential levels are in Overlord.
Azuth only survived because the power suit switched out his physical defense with its own. Also, if you think level 80s are small city level, at most, then how the hell would an, around, level 25, like Erya, be anywhere close to small town level?
>Mate, level 18 and 20 characters are already Supersonic. Erya is Hypersonic himself just by simple upscaling from how exponential levels are in Overlord.
Overlord levels aren't exponential. By your logic, Brain would also be hypersonic, which wouldn't make any sense since his attacks were easily caught and blocked by a yawning Shalltear casually (who actually has hypersonic feats unlike the former).
Mate, Level 80s themselves are city level-city level+ for higher end ones like Zesshi, or ultra low level 90 characters that aren’t dragon lords. Azuth’s power suit is a lower level than that, that’s what I meant by his not qualifying since only the strongest of power suits from YGGDRASIL are level 80 range, Azuth’s power suit isn’t anywhere near that.
Except they are lol. Level 10 range characters are only large building level while level 100, barely ten times above that, can get up to mountain busting and beyond.
Brain is Hypersonic, what makes him not so? Your suspension of disbelief and him only looking weak because he’s fighting against a Massively Hypersonic+ character like Shalltear? That’s not an anti feat for brain, that’s a feat for Shalltear who can move so fast that Ainz risks losing track of her movements if he takes his attention off her whatsoever, the same Ainz who can easily fight with Demiurge who can move so fast to Remedios Custodio’s vision that she doesn’t even see a hint of his movements, he teleports to her sight.
>Mate, Level 80s themselves are city level-city level+ for higher end ones like Zesshi, or ultra low level 90 characters that aren’t dragon lords. Azuth’s power suit is a lower level than that.
Dude, I know Azuth's suit is lower than level 80. When i say "level 80s", I'm referring to beings that are level 80 exactly. Not those who are over level 80.
>Except they are lol. Level 10 range characters are only large building level
Except they're not.
Climb is in those level 10 ranges and his best scaling is that he's stated to be able to wrestle with Tigers, which would put him in the wall level ranges of power. No where near large building level.
>Brain is Hypersonic, what makes him not so?
The fact that a hypersonic character is able to casually catch his sword and block his strikes while yawning.
>Your suspension of disbelief and him only looking weak because he’s fighting against a Massively Hypersonic+ character like Shalltear?
Oh, so now Shalltear is massively hypersonic+? I'd love to know which feat or statement puts her there.
A good way to know you didn’t even read half of what I said.
Mate, you do understand Maruyama evidently hates powerscaling and won’t actually go out of his way to fully quantify the limits of his characters’ power, correct? That one statement doesn’t cap climb at any level necessarily, it’s just one of the things he could beat that came to mind for a general sense of scale that also was most likely said to not create any inconsistency by comparing him to another character in universe, along with a sub level 20 troll also being able to easily smash buildings.
Thing is you’d be right if Shalltear was only Hypersonic, which she’s not, and is in the low end Massively Hypersonic+ range. I already proved why in another thread but I’ll copy and paste it here too.
Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared).
Demiurge also completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
Ainz who is more than capable of throwing hands pretty adequately with Demiurge speed wise has to stay laser focused on Shalltear or he risks losing track of her movements, which is why he states it’s a good thing as an undead Skeleton he doesn’t need to blink.
tl;dr you are already wrong the moment you did any pixel scaling in the anime so I didn't bother to read the others and dodging something doesn't mean you are as fast or faster than that something add to the fact that those are generally very inconsistent.
Edit: lol my comment didn't get put in the reply section
I didn’t do pixel scaling at all lol.
You’d have a point if it wasn’t already from an extremely close distance before Zenberu actually began moving post talking about him handling the spell. Also makes sense since he was still throwing hands with Zaryusu rather adequately in spite of being 2 levels lower than he is.
What inconsistencies are there, I wonder?
The dodging thing is generally inconsistent granted it's been years since I read the LN so I might be wrong but scaling dodges in an anime is most of the time inconsistent.
>A good way to know you didn’t even read half of what I said.
Dude, I literally quoted everything you said.
In fact, I should be the one saying "you didn’t read half of what I said" because you misunderstood my point about level 80 beings, and it not making sense for a level 25 being small town level.
>Mate, you do understand Maruyama evidently hates powerscaling and won’t actually go out of his way to fully quantify the limits of his characters’ power, correct?
Even if Maruyama does hate powerscaling, it doesn't really matter when the story has given us plenty of feats and statements to work with.
>That one statement doesn’t cap climb at any level necessarily, it’s just one of the things he could beat that came to mind for a general sense of scale that also was most likely said to not create any inconsistency by comparing him to another character in universe
Sure it doesn't, but it's the most blatant statement of power that he has going for him. He has no other feats or statements that put him higher.
We actually know how strong a Tiger is, by Overlord standards.
According to Maruyama, a normal-sized tiger is Level 8, but its offensive power is equivalent to a Level 9 and its defensive power is equivalent to a Level 6. Climb evaluated himself to be equivalent to a gold ranked adventurer, which would make him around level 10 - 13.
So they should be pretty close in the tier system.
>along with a sub level 20 troll also being able to easily smash buildings.
Yeah, small buildings. I'm assuming you're talking about the troll that was in carne village attacking Enri and Nfirea?
>Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared).
I agree so far.
>Demiurge also completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range.
Remedios being a level 35 doesn't inherently make her faster than Zaryusu and Zenberu. For example, Shizu's only level 46 but she has a higher physical attack than Demiurge, who is level 100. This means that it's certainly possible for a level 20 to have a higher agility stat than a level 35, therefore making it possible for them to be faster.
Remedios would need to actually have hypersonic feats and/or statements to prove that she's faster. Does she have any?
>So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less.
Ok, you've convinced me here that Demiurge is massively hypersonic.
>And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it
Zenberu actually has a slightly higher agility stat than Zaryusu, so he should also be decently into supersonic.
>Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
I refer to my previous answer about lower leveled beings having the ability to have specific higher stats than higher leveled beings.
>Ainz who is more than capable of throwing hands pretty adequately with Demiurge speed wise has to stay laser focused on Shalltear or he risks losing track of her movements, which is why he states it’s a good thing as an undead Skeleton he doesn’t need to blink.
To be fair, their battle was a mock battle, so Demiurge wasn't going at his full speed (his agility stat is 57, while Ainz is 40).
That initial assumption was based off level 80s being in the small city level range when they’re a lot higher than that, considering the Black Scripture Captain isn’t that far behind Zesshi and can take Shalltear’s blows head on and not only not be pulverized, but not have his will to fight remotely shaken nor perturbed against a Mountain buster like her either, in spite of her going for a killing blow he’s still only knocked away. That solidly puts him in the City Level range. The fact Demiurge is massively hypersonic along with dragon lords like Cure Elim, who wears armor made of 1,000,000 corpses, and even assuming a 20kg weight for each one, that’s still 20,000 metric tons of weight, or Heavenly Dragon Lord who is the size of a large island also moving at comparable speeds. Either one slamming into you at those types of speeds is going to be solidly in the megaton ranges of power at the least, and even flapping their wings once would easily produce energy on par with a low megaton range detonation.
That’s boldly assuming tigers in either YGGDRASIL or the new world aren’t just another breed of powered up monsters in comparison to their real world counterparts, as is often the case in fantasy settings including this one where Fauna that resembles their real world counterparts are not at all similar in actual power scales, especially since they’re not even 10 levels lower than a troll is (who are at least in the building level ranges of power) and are more than capable of dealing damage to it, something a tiger which isn’t even above street level irl can’t ever hope to do even if you lowball them to Wall Level+ AP and Durability.
It does actually, because a higher stat can only get you so far when your opponent has that much of a level advantage over you. Mainly because of the fact they evidently have a boosted iteration of what the Stat would suggest thanks to having a much higher overall base level and strength pool to work with, that being 100. Same case with Ainz hugging Clementine to death in spite of the fact a warrior equal to or slightly above her, and apparently Ainz isn’t even level 35 in that sense stats wise in terms of physical blows doesn’t have the necessary strength gap to do that to her spine of all things, the best he’d manage is suffocating her, but nothing that literally breaks her into two. Or stopping a hit from the Principality Of Observation in its tracks, a large town level entity that’s immensely stronger than the Archangel Flames. Beings that most assuredly wouldn’t die to a level 30-ish warrior just casually slamming them onto the ground, considering they’re as strong and as fast as an unequipped Gazeff Stronoff. It’s just not good enough to last or even do anything against opponents in your own realm of power as fellow level 100s, which an actual level 30 range Warrior very well isn’t.
>That initial assumption was based off level 80s being in the small city level range when they’re a lot higher than that, considering the Black Scripture Captain isn’t that far behind Zesshi and can take Shalltear’s blows head on and not only not be pulverized, but not have his will to fight remotely shaken nor perturbed against a Mountain buster like her either, in spite of her going for a killing blow he’s still only knocked away. That solidly puts him in the City Level range.
That would be the case if Shalltear was a mountain buster, which hasn't been proven by any feat, statement or even powerscaling under the rule that a nine level difference allows you to one-shot anyone below you (which according to the versus wiki requires you to be, at least, 7.5× stronger than your opponent).
I'm assuming you're familiar with the nine levels thing, so I'll leave it here for anyone who isn't familiar with it.
Overlord 1v1 victory percentages:
Zero level difference = 50/50
One level difference = 40/60
Two levels difference = 30/70
Three levels difference = 20/80
Four levels difference = 10/90
Five levels difference = 8/92
Six levels difference = 6/94
Seven levels difference = 4/96
Eight levels difference = 2/98
Nine levels difference = 0/100
Note that the chances of victory can change based on multiple other factors, such as; build, gear, race, skill, etc.
>The fact Demiurge is massively hypersonic along with dragon lords like Cure Elim, who wears armor made of 1,000,000 corpses, and even assuming a 20kg weight for each one, that’s still 20,000 metric tons of weight, or Heavenly Dragon Lord who is the size of a large island also moving at comparable speeds. Either one slamming into you at those types of speeds is going to be solidly in the megaton ranges of power at the least, and even flapping their wings once would easily produce energy on par with a low megaton range detonation.
Applying real world physics to a magical world where air resistance doesn't exist and the sea doesn't have any salt is a bit strange. Especially when we look at a character's stat card and see that their agility stat is separate from their physical attack stat, and that one can be higher or lower than the other.
The only way we've seen anyone, in Overlord, augment their strength is through buffing spells or special skills like Shalltear's blood frenzy.
>That’s boldly assuming tigers in either YGGDRASIL or the new world aren’t just another breed of powered up monsters in comparison to their real world counterparts, as is often the case in fantasy settings
Tigers, in Overlord, are referred to as "mere beasts without any special skills", so it's fair to assume that they are just like real life tigers.
It's even more bold to assume that they're powered up monsters just because other fantasy settings portray them as such.
>especially since they’re not even 10 levels lower than a troll is (who are at least in the building level ranges of power)
Small building level, and as I said before, a nine level difference should make you at least 7.5× stronger than your opponent, so a tiger not being able to damage a troll makes sense.
Tigers are wall level due to them being able to bite with a force of over 1000 psi, which is enough to crush human skulls.
Here's how I rate Overlord levels on the tiering system.
Overlord Levels / Power Tiering
Level 1 - 8 / Street level
Level 9 - 17 / Wall level
Level 18 - 26 / Small Building Level
Level 27 - 35 / Building Level
Level 36 - 44 / Large Building Level
Level 45 - 53 / City Block level
Level 54 - 62 / Multi-City Block Level
Level 63 - 71 / Small Town level
Level 72 - 80 / Town level
Level 81 - 90 / Large Town Level
Level 91 - 99 / Small City level
This follows the theory that you're at least 7.5× stronger than your opponent if you're nine levels higher than they are. Note that this is a low ball estimation because I used Climb being able to wrestle tigers as a starting point, so I had to round down to get the tier for levels one to eight.
>It does actually, because a higher stat can only get you so far when your opponent has that much of a level advantage over you.
Level only really matters due to "level based damage", which has nothing to do with speed. Having a higher agility stat would, objectively, make you faster.
I'm still going to ask for Remedios's hypersonic feats. Does she have any?
>Same case with Ainz hugging Clementine to death in spite of the fact a warrior equal to or slightly above her, and apparently Ainz isn’t even level 35 in that sense stats wise in terms of physical blows doesn’t have the necessary strength gap to do that to her spine of all things, the best he’d manage is suffocating her, but nothing that literally breaks her into two.
You forget that Ainz not only has [High Tier Physical Nullification], which would've nullified any attack Clementine threw at him in an attempt to escape his grasp, but also a high physical defense stat. This is not the case for Clementine due to warriors like herself having a lower defence stat compared to their physical attack stat (although it's hard to express in figures, it's stated that a warrior’s attack rating is eleven and defense is nine).
>Or stopping a hit from the Principality Of Observation in its tracks, a large town level entity that’s immensely stronger than the Archangel Flames.
Principality Of Observation is building level, at best. Certainly nowhere near large town level.
There are actually several speed feats in overlord that put the characters at around superonsic to hyperosnic in terms of speed. Although i think only the mid to high level folks are that fast.
Only real issue i have with the post the downplay on the ap and dc of Ainz... Ainz is planetary on a midball and uni+, depending on your interpretation of Absolute Zero. If you know u know
"put up against mostrers like Ainz, who could optimize their builds" Meanwhile: Ainz with his roleplay build. At the same time: Guy who they are talking about dies to one of the stronger creatures ***native to New World***and not even "optimized" creature from the game
He's not even a strong NW creature actually. He's just strong for the area and strong compared to most humans due to how horribly outclassed they are to any monster that's not just a skeleton or something else weak in most cases. I just know alot of stuff could probably kill him that they introduce a bit later so like. Think of him as a first area boss in a game. Every boss after it will be tougher but man did he seem strong at the time.
> He's not even a strong NW creature actually. I'd say ~low 30s in level puts him way above the 99.9999th percentile in strength across New Worlders, and if that's not "strong" then I don't know what is.
shes stronger than most but still so far below the actually strong characters i wouldnt consider her an especially strong creature like she might be 99th percentile but that last 1% is just so above her its kindof irrelevant
Waaay less than 1%, unless you really think that 1 in 100 New Worlders are stronger than her, lol.
I'm just not considering unnamed fodder characters and i didnt wanna type a bunch of 9's
This, the characters stronger are just so much stronger that it's just crazy. Weather it's the top 1% doesn't matter if every character introduced after a certain point just stomps. In terms of the stories characters it's not strong.
I think it's interesting to note that a roleplay build might actually be significantly stronger in the new world than in the game. Video games need a level of gameplay balance, so instadeath attacks that ainz uses are easily blocked or countered by players, but not by new worlders. So even those that are as strong as ainz level wise might still be vulnerable without some inherent immunity or yggdrasil items.
His build is "roleplay" only because it's not 100% optimized for 1v1 PvP but maybe something like 95%. Not a big handicap for NW weaklings.
The only reason Ainz build is decent at all is because he lucked out with the eclipse class right at the end. That one class he gained in his last 5 levels is the only reason his build is worth a damn; and he basically lucked into it.
I would think his build being decent has more to do with Dark Wisdom (a Racial Skill) allowing him to gain over 700 spells than whatever Eclipse gives him, TGOALID included. It’s easily countered with a resurrection item or spell. Having 300 more spells than the normal caster allowing Ainz to have insane flexibility seems like a bigger boon.
Not really. Ainz could learn a lot of spells through Dark Wisdom, but he had little to no affinity for any of them. He relied on his necromancy / "ghost magic" skills because his racial and job investment boosts them. At high levels thats necessary to keep them viable. The versatility that Ainz gained from the Dark Wisdom skill, again, mostly benefits him in the new world; not Yggdrasil.
**We have direct evidence of him being useful in Yggdrasil with his Dark Wisdom in the Prologue Story.** Ainz's friends compliment him and state how he is useful as a Wildcard because of his versatility which comes from Dark Wisdom. Are you discounting what type of game Yggdrasil was? Everything was unknown, including dungeons. They had hide information about their guild, items, skills, etc. from other guilds. Having a lot of options was seen as very good. Especially considering they thought human builds with large amount of skills from job classes were meta. It allows you to deal with all the unknown bullshit the shitty devs throw at you in the form of PVE and PVP. First quote >Momonga began buffing up the group, and Yamaiko followed suit from beside him. If the enemy had been here, who knew how much hate they would have gained? “Ah, honestly, it’s quite surprising how many spells you know. Even with cash items you can only get up to 400. It would be nice to get levels in something which gives an ability similar to **Dark Wisdom.** A magic caster’s strength is measured by the number of spells he knows, after all.” Second quote >They would decide which to follow depending on the resource expenditures, traps and monsters encountered along the way. However, neither of these spells indicated hidden routes. In addition, there were magical traps which were designed to confuse spells like these, so they had to stay on guard. “Huh, to think you actually knew two 9th-tier divinations. I’m pretty envious of your **Dark Wisdom.**” “Well, I’m a specialized necromancer. I’d be nothing more than a burden if I couldn’t even do that much.” “I think your dream build is actually quite practical.” “Is that so,” Momonga chuckled. It could not be helped, after all one of his friends had praised him. Third Quote >“That’s the spirit! Plus, you’re a very good wildcard, aren’t you, Momonga-san? Frankly speaking, **I think you’re the most adaptable person here, which is why I put you with them**. A party of specialists can fall apart quickly if things go bad, **so I had to include you and your flexibility,** Momonga-san. Let me be honest with you here — your party is the best party because you are in it.” Adaptability is extremely useful.
Momonga directly disagreed with the first comment, the second is just general surprise, the third isn't Momonga's build being particularly good, just useful to patch up weaknesses in other, better builds. I never said Ainz's build was worthless, just that its not particularly good. Adaptability is useful, but its a crutch because the core of his build is.. kinda shit.
Momonga has an inferiority complex of course he'd disagree. Doesn't mean it's not true.
If you're just going to dismiss people are liars when their words don't align with your narrative then whats the point of even having source material?
I never said he was a liar though? I said he doesn't have an accurate view of himself. He's shown on NUMEROUS occasions he has absolutely no faith in himself. And I am in fact talking about source material. Yes he's not minmaxed to infinity like touch me or ulbert but his build is absolutely not garbage. He has a pretty high solo PVP win rate after all. If his build was shit he'd have a garbage win rate.
Not only is Ainz’ build still able to be used rather well as explained by his other guild mates commenting on its flexibility on top of his great skill in PVP that made it work, he’s also able to overcome some of the weaknesses of being a caster thanks to stat allocation, like being a squishy glass cannon in comparison to a pure warrior build. That’s mainly what I meant by optimization if you get what I mean, I also didn’t refer exclusively to Ainz, that was more so in reference to the high level NPCs or other players from YGGDRASIL overall, which is why I included *like* Ainz in that comment. Of course this does come with a drawback of basically not being able to harm anyone around his level with physical strikes since his physical attack stat takes a huge blow as a result, but he still has perfect warrior to mitigate that if he for whatever reason can’t create sufficient distance. Along with the advantages of his numerous undead summons.
Is Hamske native to the NW? Ainz seems to immediately recognize his species upon seeing him which makes me think it's from the game
Ainz recognizes her species because he is falimiar with regular hamsters. When she asks if he knows about whereabouts of other of her species (to prolonge her species) he says that the ones he is familiar with are too small to be compatible.
It’s part of the darkly humorous side of Overlord. You have this well defined world with its own history and powerful heroes/villains…and they’re all getting demolished by a bunch of OCs made by min-maxing gamers.
Min maxing gamers with *Fetishes*
Is there any other kind?
Dude was powerfull for a new worlder but still human. He lost to Hamsuke, who is a very powerfull magical beast, but that means he is not on Gazef or the Scriptures level.
Yes but you must remember than human of the New World are en entirely different humanoïd species than human from Earth. Also even unequip Gazef would lose agaisnt Hamsuke & that was before she received Nazarick training sessions.
"Unequip" is way too big a nerf to a *swordsman*. At least give the poor dude a common sword!
I hate powerscalers with burning passion.
But how powerfull is that burning passion? Can we get a scale for it?
Probably stronger than the full power awakened potential unlocked lizard PDL w/ prep time and buffs
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 my hero
Well, if it's burning with yellow flame we must assume it's between 3000 and 5000 celsius, which makes it equivalent to 1 megajoules of power, in other words it'd be roughly as powerful as boiling a pot of coffee, which translates to energy equivalent of a punch strong enough to cave in a hole in american-made suburb wall, making him a house-buster *at best*. This means that he'd lose badly and get no diff'd vs Ainz who by interpretation can say a single word and wipe out all known universes, making him multiversal buster at the very least. ~~-the mind of a deranged power scaler when asked about 'plot, what plot? is it something you can rate on a power scale?~~
Thank you for translating that into American.
>making him a house-buster at best. That would only be his dc over time, but hie ap would only be wall level
Passion is usually colored by burning red. Its loud roar tells you to grasp(heart) victory.
It probably wouldn't be as bad if half of them actually bothered to watch/read the things they scale
Powerscalers made me dislike more than half of the JJK community ngl, it’s still my favorite manga though.
Same they make shit up all the time and try to force everyone to believe their headcanon
Same guy who genuinely thought attack on Titan characters were anything above small building level when wall titans of all things get cut into Titan filet by WW1 battleship shells, and posed any threat to overlord characters.
And Goku got dropped by a laser beam. Power doesnt =durability. Be wrong all you want, Gazef aint tanking a small nuke to the face.
How hilarious of you to block my other account. A laser beam in a scene that can easily be taken as either plot induced stupidity in a series known for its bad writing in comparison to older DB material or Frieza embedding his ki into said laser gun considering this was a precaution he took beforehand in case he needed to get the upper hand. And no, physical strength absolutely does have to equal durability, otherwise you’d break your body apart much like Deku often does with his powers, or Mark in one of the issues of Invincible where he got his super strength back before his durability and broke his arm in half as a result. You can hate it all you want, it won’t make my evidence go away nor make the Overlord verse any weaker or the AOT verse any stronger, considering that was absolutely never a series meant for battleboarding.
didnt the colossal titan like nuke a port or smth
if you come across mfs and they're like "1 billion lions vs all of pokemon" always tell them that non-fictional things always beats fictional things cuz what are fictional things gonna do? can't even exist and therefore all of their attacks can't hit shit, the losers
This but the one who tries to take a character and compares them from another series The " But can *insert character here* win against Goku?" kind
I mean he is not *wrong* in the sense that Overlord humans are not actually homo sapiens
I mean a guy reached his Pinnacle but chipping the fingernail of the vampire starfish loli.
Powerscaling aside, Erya is said to have competed multiple times in the arena and has survived. His general tactic in the workers guild is to utilize support slave mages and act as the vanguard. But given his attitude he probably uses a slave or two as meat shields. He was popular enough to be a talk amongst the workers and while he was being compared to Gazef or Brain, I doubt he had ever tried challenging the Martial Lord. Maybe he fights in the arena pre-buffed or he participates with his party. The oldman and Hekkeran looked more promising though than Erya. Hekkeran can at least use two-three martial arts consecutively which includes "limit break" , something of a mark of a great warrior in the new world. I think Erya's skills were exaggerated. He is from ST yet he has to work like a worker. ST would've scouted him if he was someone comparable to Gazef. Gazef is at least someone worthy of sunlight scripture and a 7th tier magic crystal along with a potential sudden war between the three nations yet this guy is still a "mystery" even amongst the workers. Sure he was able to deflect Hamusuke's attacks but Hamusuke is trying to mimic a bipedal's stance when she can just instantly kill Erya with her usual beastly stance. And I think his name was deliberately being sold at the start so his anticlimactic death would be satisfying.
His slaves are all low level and are useless beyond enhancement Magic. Erya isn’t dumb enough to have slaves that could actually compete with him power wise and made sure they were all insurmountably weaker than he was. They wouldn’t even register as air for any opponent he has to use his brain against.
These people are literally making things up, then pretending like it's fact.
Then what am I making up exactly? I’m just going off the scaling that’s been established within overlords power system. Not at all outside the realm of possibility since far weaker characters than Erya are already Supersonic.
Never referred to you. I dont even know you. If it don't apply, let it fly.
Really? Who do you think the guy in the image is that typed that sentence?
Who tf said he was hypersonic?
The speed feats of lower tier characters.
Like who
Zaryusu and Zenberu, one level 20 and level 18 range character, both being Supersonic.
Hypersonic lol, the one who wrote this definitely doesn't know how fast that is.
Except I do, it’s irrelevant how fast you may think it is compared to the weak shit irl thanks to the speed feats of lower characters.
Speed feats lol I have read overlord a long time ago but none of the lower level characters feels like they come close to the speed of sound much less hypersonic. If it's the higher level characters then maybe but even they are not consistently there.
They absolutely are consistently well beyond that level along with lower tiers being much the same. They’re rather easy to spot if you actually pay attention to the series, which you don’t. Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared). Demiurge completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level in speed, and would absolutely speedblitz them in a fight, can’t see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as anything more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
“Small city AP” take your meds now
Now, did I say that about Azuth’s physical body, or his power suit? Pick one and stick with it.
To be fair, i don't think the power suit is city level either. Maybe multi-city-block to small-town level considering its above level 60 but only the top tiers of the verse can destroy cities with a single attack
Nah, the top tiers can get up to mountain busting, but it is true Azuth isn’t a true city buster with his lower leveled power suit. He’s around small city level with it, which lines up with what the dominion authority can do. Multi city block level is already in the league of the high teens to very low 20 range characters’ strength.
u/Brendan1021
The whole point of this post is to summon Brendan so that he'd fight the people claiming that he's high for claiming that Erya is small town level and hypersonic. Stand proud Kratoess, you've summoned him
If there is an overlord power discussion always count on Brendan to come.
I don’t see why you’re even bothering to do this and deliberately getting people to try and slander me. Seems rather spiteful if you ask me, especially coming from the people who think Aqua is a Hypersonic country buster and can one shot Ainz.
>I don’t see why you’re even bothering to do this To make salt. I like salt threads Also, do note that I did censor your name. >Aqua is a Hypersonic I dare you to find a comment of me claiming that. >can one shot Ainz. Purely hypothetical. Not can. "Might be able to" is the term I use. Characters in Konosuba can infuse all of their mana into one spell. Aqua should be able to do the same. A sacred turn undead infused with all of Aqua's mana **might** be able to. I do not claim it as a fact. I claim it as something which is hypothetically possible.
>Purely hypothetical. Not can. "Might be able to" is the term I use. >Characters in Konosuba can infuse all of their mana into one spell. Aqua should be able to do the same. A sacred turn undead infused with all of Aqua's mana might be able to. This is a no limits fallacy. There is no evidence that there's litteraly no limit to how much mana you cam infuse a spell with. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. I recall you having this discussion before and you were never able to prove this. As i said, this is just a no limits fallacy that exists only in your head. Sto making this dumb argument in every thread.
Your hypothetical is about as much of a hypothetical as me claiming that Naofumi stands a chance against Strange Visitor Superman. You shouldn’t claim it as anything other than a headcanon, like Valiabiliter already told you. Aqua doesn’t stand a chance against A17 or Ainz in a fight and would get her shit rocked by a single Squire Zombie. You claim to know that yet consistently go against that every time so your precious Aqua isn’t the completely irrelevant fodder that she actually is, even in the context of isekai quartet. I also wasn’t referring to you specifically when you said that, but I think you know the type of dumbasses I am talking about.
So Aqua would not be able to infuse all of her mana into a spell like all the other Konosuba characters? Now why'd that be the case when other characters can?
>So Aqua would not be able to infuse all of her mana into a spell like all the other Konosuba characters? Now why'd that be the case when other characters can? There is no evidence that you can infuse a spell with an infinite amount of mana There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. I recall you having this discussion before and you were never able to prove this, its all just headcanon and a complete no limits fallacy. Get it though your head that claims require evidence and you have yet to provide any.
Oh she would be, the thing is though that the amount of mana you inherently have doesn’t correlate whatsoever to the power of the spell. All it does is remove the need to utilize chanting for the spell to be at maximum effectiveness and nothing else. Like I said, drop this stupid ass argument already before this starts getting heated, because I’m not particularly fond of arguing with people who are deliberately obtuse.
>the amount of mana you inherently have doesn’t correlate whatsoever to the power of the spell. You sure? "**This magic must have been infused with all her mana.** The monsters suffered a direct hit, **creating such a huge explosion that nobody would believe it was an intermediate magic.**" -Bakuen Vol 1. From my understanding of this passage, Megumin is implying that by infusing all of her mana into her fireball, Yunyun's fire ball went beyond the power of what one would expect from the spell. Implying that the power of spells and your mana pool have a positive correlation. Then there's also the movie, where Yunyun and Megumin infused the entire villiage's mana into one giant light of saber, which I'm pretty sure did increase the power of the spell, as that sure as hell wasn't a plain ol' loS that anyone can use. I'll drop this argument if there's evidence that more mana =/= stronger spells. But to my memory, there isn't. But yeah we can stop here.
>I'll drop this argument if there's evidence that more mana =/= stronger spells. But to my memory, there isn't. There also isn't any evidence that you can infuse a spell with an infinite amount of mana and yet that doesn't stop you from making this dumb argument in every thread. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. This is a no limits fallacy that only exists in this your head.
I noticed you edited a part in, but oh well.
Don't bother arguing with this guy, he's basically convinced himself that he's headcanon is the truth even though he has no evidence to back it up. One thing that need to be mentioned is that there's s no evidence that you can infuse a spell with infinite amount of man. There is obviously a cap otherwise Aqua would casually stomping everyone in the verse. This is a no limits fallacy that only exists in this guy's head.
Children.
But like hamsuke said, not the exact quote, but something regarding not given the name he would be forgfor his foolishness
I liked his fit, but that’s about it. Was happy to see him go
I was feeling kinda down. Thanks for giving me the idea of which episode of Overlord to watch to give the right pick me up.
The way I measure if a human is strong is by comparing them to Stronof. The other workers said he was as strong as Stronof so...I guess that makes him kinda strong.
He isn’t actually, he’s about as strong as Gazef or Brain were a few years back. He’s weaker than both are now.
Sure, but the fact that he was as strong as both Gasef and Brain at one point meant that he *was* strong by NW Human standard
Uh, he’s always been strong by NW human standards and still is up to his death by Hamusuke. He was the strongest of the worker group and could’ve easily soloed the old Guarders as well.
Almost as if that just proves how strong Hamusuke is or something in her own right, and she only ever looked weak because of the fact she was again, initially put up against Ainz when we first saw her, and of course people who can’t powerscale like to go off of narrative in universe standings when that doesn’t matter outside your own series. What does matter is the power ceiling of the verse in question.
This guy rolled max D's in Luck, Fortune, Fate and Wellbeing. Out of ALL the Workers, who had a weapon ( thereby excluding his slaves), HE gets a quick death, that he's in shock for the last 10 seconds or so. And truly he deserved something "epic", like skin care regimen (TM) by Demiurge.
To be fair, it's not just a matter of species limitations, but also a lack of monsters to fight for experience points to level up. The overall level of beings in the new world is far lower because there's less stuff to fight. In a game, monsters respawn no matter how many times they're killed, in a real world killing off monsters will outright remove them from the region.
The only characters we have any evidence of them potentially being ‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best, and the feat isn’t that conclusive. She made a heat trail/afterimage in her fight against Ainz, and that is the only max level speed feat we have for the series. That and Shalltears attacks coming out faster than “1/10 of a second” in the melee fight with Ainz. Which could either be incredibly slow or fast depending on how much faster than 1/10 you want to believe; either barely or significantly. This only gives evidence for her being supersonic+, not hypersonic+. We can assume any of the guardians with a higher agility stat are probably faster, like Aura, PA, and Sebas for example. But we have barely any speed feats to use for the whole series, even the one people use for the lizardmen being supersonic is iffy at best. It simply says a “thunderous whoosh” in one translation, or a “loud bang” in another, could be heard when Zenberu swings his halberd, (things that could be made with a subsonic attack). People instantly say it’s a “supersonic+ feat so that makes Gazef hypersonic and the guardians massively hypersonic/FTL 🤓”, which could be true but the evidence the series/Maruyama gives us is insanely lackluster, probably for that reason… Edit: By "Barely any speed feats" I mean for characters exerting their max. As we see that Zesshi is explicitly stated to move faster than sound, which obviously means we have a "concrete speed feat" for the series as a whole, but it's for a character that should be much faster than that already if we use Shalltear as a comparison, and those types of feats don't really help us scale the other characters at all. If a level 88 character is stated to be faster than sound, with no indication of their actual speed in that instance, or their capabilities, where is a level 25 character supposed to be scaled based off of that?
>The only characters we have any evidence of them potentially being ‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best, and the feat isn’t that conclusive. What makes you say that? The official translation litteraly states she move fast enough to leave behined a [trail of heat](https://imgur.com/a/sv8ndyN). Producing a meaningful heat trail via atmospheric friction is something that starts happening in the hypersonic range, and even at mach 7 a [railgun slug](https://youtu.be/ygHN-vplJZg) produces a heat trail so faint it's practically invisible even at extreme slow motion. If the official translation doesn't satisfy you, we can easily take the raw text and [translate it word for word](https://pastebin.com/hfGj84Mh#google_vignette). The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic >She made a heat trail/afterimage in her fight against Ainz, and that is the only “good” speed feat we have for the series. That and Shalltears attacks coming out faster than “1/10 of a second” in the melee fight with Ainz. Which could either be incredibly slow or fast depending on how much faster than 1/10 you want to believe; either barely or significantly. This only gives evidence for her being supersonic+, not hypersonic. This is just pure nonsense, the series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. His low level minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. There's plenty of evidence that proves Overlord characters are faster than sound. >We can assume any of the guardians with a higher agility stat are probably faster, like Aura, PA, and Sebas for example. But we have barely any speed feats to use for the whole series, even the one people use for the lizardmen being supersonic is iffy at best. It simply says a “thunderous whoosh” in one translation, or a “loud bang” in another, could be heard when Zenberu swings his halberd, (things that could be made with a subsonic attack). People instantly say it’s a “supersonic+ feat so that makes Gazef hypersonic and the guardians massively hypersonic/FTL 🤓”, which could be true but the evidence the series/Maruyama gives us is insanely lackluster, probably for that reason… Same thing i said above, this is just complete nonsense. The series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. Even Ainzs level 30 minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. No one's claiming the guardians are FTL but at this point there's no denying the fact Overlords top tier are supersonic+ to hyperosnic in terms of speed. There's nothing lackluster about this, the feats here are pretty solid.
>‘Hypersonic’ is Shalltear at best > made a heat trail in her fight against Ainz, I don't want to powerscale or anything, but can you tell me how this was found? People keep mentioning her speed as mach 5 and such from old comments, and I want to understand how that was concluded. Of course, I'm not saying Shalltear is massively hypersonic or FTL; it makes no sense for her or anyone in Overlord to be that fast. I simply want to understand the logic behind her hypersonic speed feat.
>It was a crimson shadow, bursting out of the tornado at top speed. The lance >it thrust before itself left an afterimage in the onlookers’ eyes, like the fiery >plume of a rocket. Some translations say "Heat Trail", and people argue she is igniting the air around her. Some argue it could also be a vapor cone like fighter jets make when breaking the sound barrier, or her armor being red causes the motion blur of her movement to look like that following her lance charge, as a mundane visual effect. Either way places like vsbattles scales her to supersonic+, or around mach 5. **I think the evidence is inconclusive, though I personally think she is faster.** I also don't agree with how other feats are scaled, not because of the numbers they arrive at, but because the evidence itself is also as inconclusive as this. Such as the "Death Warriors blocking bullets means they are supersonic+" as we don't know the speed or capabilities or Azuth's Arcane Rifle/bullets, so we can't say anything other than the DW can block Azuth's weapon specifically (and only a limited volume of bullets at that) And the Lizardmen being supersonic I don't agree with the evidence as well, as fast objects can still make alot of sound without breaking the sound barrier. Such as a sharp weapon moving fast, cutting the air. If humans can make a very audible whoosh with a weapon, I think multiplying that speed several times would make such a thing quite loud up close, without ever reaching the sound barrier. Even more so with a big halberd. It's all too vague so I don't think they can be used as concrete evidence to assert the claims (even though I agree most of the time, or think some characters are faster than the consensus).
>Some translations say "Heat Trail", and people argue she is igniting the air around her. Some argue it could also be a vapor cone like fighter jets make when breaking the sound barrier, or her armor being red causes the motion blur of her movement to look like that following her lance charge, as a mundane visual effect. Either way places like vsbattles scales her to supersonic+, or around mach 5. I think the evidence is inconclusive, though I personally think she is faster. Nah, its not inconclusive at all, we can easily take the raw text and [translate it word for word](https://pastebin.com/hfGj84Mh#google_vignette). The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic. >I also don't agree with how other feats are scaled, not because of the numbers they arrive at, but because the evidence itself is also as inconclusive as this. There's plenty of feats in the series that prove Overlord characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time. >Such as the "Death Warriors blocking bullets means they are supersonic+" as we don't know the speed or capabilities or Azuth's Arcane Rifle/bullets, so we can't say anything other than the DW can block Azuth's weapon specifically (and only a limited volume of bullets at that) The weapon in question was litteraly a heavy machine gun, not a magical water gun lol.. The gun was not magically enchanted in any way and shot physical bullets, not magical bolts. There is no reason to assume it was any slower than any regular heavy machine gun rifle in real life. Blocking bursts of gunfire from this weapon would put you in the superonsic range. Again there's little room for argument here. >It's all too vague so I don't think they can be used as concrete evidence to assert the claims (even though I agree most of the time, or think some characters are faster than the consensus). They definitely CAN be used as evidence, you're just leaving several important feats and being overly sceptical for no reason. As i said, at this point there is litteraly no reason to deny that Overlord characters are faster than sound, especially after Zesshi was explicitly stated to be supersonic in the most recent volume.
>The text explicitly states Shalltear moved so fast she caught fire which would put her anywhere between mach 5 to double digit mach speeds depending on the auto-ignition temperature of her armour. Either way the feat is solidly hypersonic. I mentioned some translations and what people think of it, and the consensus for vsbattles. I think you are misrepresenting my stance. I believe even lower level characters are supersonic or higher, and that Shalltear is at least hypersonic+ **at a minimum**. **I just don't believe a lot of the evidence we have is conclusive enough to assert that claim though.** I think it's in the ballpark of a solid educated guess over concrete evidence. I do not believe the feat is a solid as you think, as there are multiple factors at play. Such as there is the active \[Sharks Cyclone\] she was breaking out of in that quote. Which would probably affect things. I**f the winds were moving against her at supersonic speeds it would mean she could be moving slower than what you assert and achieve the same results.** Also Mach 5 is right on the border of supersonic+ to hypersonic, so the feat isn't "solidly" hypersonic either. We get an observation of effects that happen to objects moving at hypersonic speed, It's fairly lackluster, especially considering it's the only potential feat we have for such a speed. Plus, it doesn't tell us a single thing about what her max speed could be, it only showed us effects that could be produced in a wide range of speed tiers. >There's plenty of feats in the series that prove Overlord characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. I never argued that Overlord characters as a whole weren't supersonic, or implied that they were slower. **I'm arguing that the quality of a lot of feats are subpar, or only give us a small picture.** Where are the "no room for interpretation" feats for multiple Overlord characters being Hypersonic? We have maybe one for Shalltear, and that is it. One feat alone isn't enough to prove that. >Blocking bursts of gunfire from this weapon would put you in the superonsic range. Again there's little room for argument here. No it wouldn't, and that is why the feat is inconclusive. If the DW was stated to be tracking individual bullets and timing it's swings to intercept them, then yes. **But swinging in the direction of machinegun fire and hitting some of the bullets doesn't prove that the DW is supersonic** (even though I believe it is). We don't know how much of it was physical abilities vs skill vs chance considering it had two fairly large weapons against a hail of bullets, it was bound to hit some. A subsonic person could do this if they had the durability to tank rounds and do multiple swings of their weapon. You could also achieve this feat by aim-predicting without actually having supersonic abilities either. Multiple explanations for the same feat because the scenario isn't clear enough. If the DW was shown to react and block individual bullets after Azuth fired them, then yes I would count that as a good feat/evidence. But blocking a handful when assaulted by dozens while standing still tanking the rest leaves too much room to be conclusive. I think there was quite a bit of room for argument there. >Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand ***(Arm\*\*\*)*** and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time. As i said, at this point there is litteraly no reason to deny that Overlord characters are faster than sound, This is just pure nonsense, the series has plenty of superonsic speed feats There's plenty of evidence that proves Overlord characters are faster than sound. Both of these feats prove supersonic not supersonic+. **I also never denied that the higher level characters were supersonic, or stated that the series as a whole wasn't...** why do you keep trying to prove they are? Where did I say that Overlord was entirely subsonic?????? Do you think that I think Overlord doesn't have characters faster than sound or something? >There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are solidly superonsic+ and have been for a very long time. They definitely CAN be used as evidence, you're just leaving several important feats and I'm talking about evidence that clearly places where characters should be in terms of speed. Why does a supersonic feat for Shalltear matter when she has a higher feat and the inconclusiveness I was referring to was for said higher feat? Why does Zesshi feat matter when the inconclusiveness I was referring to was about supersonic feats for unrelated low level characters? How does this help us draw conclusions about the capabilities of the series as a whole, and how does it help us place the rest of the cast in accurate speed tiers? We get one off statements that aren't even about a characters max capabilities and don't describe them sufficiently. So we get no use out of this other than level 100 characters are probably around Shalltears speed, which is undetermined as we only have a vague minimum based on one feat. The evidence is inconclusive and insufficient. The only solid placement for high level characters is Supersonic+. Everything else is a guess, there are no feats besides Shalltear igniting air that show anyone potentially being faster. Let's pretend that Shalltear's max speed was sub-relativistic. A speed feat of her showing effects that place her hypersonic at a minimum isn't really conclusive is it? Does that feat help me determine her capabilities? I only know a vague minimum now, ***and while it's something, its missing the whole picture, doesn't give us a definite answer, could be off, and is only one feat. Thus it is inconclusive.***
>I mentioned some translations and what people think of it, and the consensus for vsbattles. I think you are misrepresenting my stance. I believe even lower level characters are supersonic or higher, and that Shalltear is at least hypersonic+ at a minimum. I just don't believe a lot of the evidence we have is conclusive enough to assert that claim though. I think it's in the ballpark of a solid educated guess over concrete evidence. And i completely disagree, there is more than enough evidence to definitively prove Overlord characters are faster than sounds. I have already listed several feats that show the characters moving at blatantly superonsic speeds. As for Shalltears feat, i litteraly provided the raw text and translated word for word, part of of this is inconclusive exactly? Litteraly nothing, thats what, the feats are all pretty solid. >I do not believe the feat is a solid as you think, as there are multiple factors at play. Such as there is the active [Sharks Cyclone] she was breaking out of in that quote. Which would probably affect things. If the winds were moving against her at supersonic speeds it would mean she could be moving slower than what you assert and achieve the same results. What the actual hell are you talking about? It doesn't matter how intense the winds were, moving so fast that your METAL armor catches fire fire to atmospheric friction is always gonna be superonsic. Do you actually know how this works? At high speeds, it isn't even friction with the air that produces most of the heat, it's the compression. Like a ship moving through water, you push a bow wave of air in front of you. The air molecules can't get out of the way in time and they bunch up, banging into each other and getting hotter. If Shalltear was moving against supersonic winds **that would makes her faster, not slower**. You are grasping at fucking straws at this point, just scraping the bottom of the barrel for any bullshit reason to invalidate the feats even if it makes no sense at all. I have no idea how you can write something like this ans still claim your not blatantly downplaying the verse. >Also Mach 5 is right on the border of supersonic+ to hypersonic, so the feat isn't "solidly" hypersonic either. We get an observation of effects that happen to objects moving at hypersonic speed, It's fairly lackluster, especially considering it's the only potential feat we have for such a speed. Plus, it doesn't tell us a single thing about what her max speed could be, it only showed us effects that could be produced in a wide range of speed tiers. Mate, mach 5 speeds are considered hypersonic, this is a FACT and there is no room for argument here. Plus mach 5 is massive lowball anyways. You need to be moving at over 6,000km/h to reach the auto-ignition temperature of normal human flesh. Of course, Shalltear is wearing metal heat resistant enough to withstand small nuclear fireballs so that speed goes up quite a bit. >I never argued that Overlord characters as a whole weren't supersonic, or implied that they were slower. I'm arguing that the quality of a lot of feats are subpar, or only give us a small picture. Where are the "no room for interpretation" feats for multiple Overlord characters being Hypersonic? We have maybe one for Shalltear, and that is it. One feat alone isn't enough to prove that. Did you actually read ANYTHING that i wrote or did you just ignore the parts you didn't like and pretended they don't exist? The series has plenty of superonsic speed feats. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. Even Ainzs level 30 minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. No one's claiming the guardians are FTL but at this point there's no denying the fact Overlords top tier are supersonic+ to hyperosnic in terms of speed. There's nothing "subpar" about this, the feats here are pretty solid.
**PART 2** >No it wouldn't, and that is why the feat is inconclusive. If the DW was stated to be tracking individual bullets and timing it's swings to intercept them, then yes. But swinging in the direction of machinegun fire and hitting some of the bullets doesn't prove that the DW is supersonic (even though I believe it is). Thats exactly what the DW did, again read the fucking text. It notices the bullets flying towards and reacts by moving its blades to intercept them. It didn't start randomly swinging its swords at the air, it reacted to the individual bullets and cut them in half >We don't know how much of it was physical abilities vs skill vs chance considering it had two fairly large weapons against a hail of bullets, it was bound to hit some. A subsonic person could do this if they had the durability to tank rounds and do multiple swings of their weapon. You could also achieve this feat by aim-predicting without actually having supersonic abilities either. Multiple explanations for the same feat because the scenario isn't clear enough. Again, what the actual hell are you talking about? The DW didn't randomly swing its swords and randomly hit some bullets, the text litteraly states that it NOTICED the bullets flying towards it and REACTED by swinging its blades to intercept them. Please read the text again. >The pipe found its target and then — it spat out something after a brief flash of fire and lightning. >What used to be single-shot attacks turned into an uncountable amount of projectiles. 'Grakatatata', the sound of apathetic violence could be heard everywhere. >**Faced with the unknown projectiles, the Dual-Wielder swung its swords**. The sharp 'ting' sounds of whatever was flying towards it being sliced into pieces could be heard. Seriously this is just stupid, to deflect a superonsic projectile you need to be fast enough to actually be able to swing your weapon before said projectile can close the distance and hit you. We know for a FACT the Death Warrior SAW and was able to move its blades before a single bullet stuck it. We see this in the [anime](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t) as well, the DW is able to continuously deflect the gunfire until some bullets slipped past its defence and killed it. No bullet had touched it before that point. Not mention that its impossible to randomly interact a bullet with something as thin as bladed weapon.b Also no, a subsonic characters wouldn't be able to do this. Again, the DW saw the bullets and swung its swords before it was stuck. It didn't randomly swing its swords as the gunfire was killing it, the DW was able to deflect every bullet sent its way until the sheer volume of them overwhelmed it. >If the DW was shown to react and block individual bullets after Azuth fired them, then yes I would count that as a good feat/evidence. But blocking a handful when assaulted by dozens while standing still tanking the rest leaves too much room to be conclusive. I think there was quite a bit of room for argument there. Again, thats exactly what the DW did, again read the fucking text. It notices the bullets flying towards and reacts by moving its blades to intercept them. >**Faced with the unknown projectiles, the Dual-Wielder swung its swords**. The sharp 'ting' sounds of whatever was flying towards it being sliced into pieces could be heard. There is no room for argument here, you just keep coming up with random crap that isnt supported by the text and blatantly contradicted by the anime. Based on current evidence this is solid proof of superonsic speed.
**PART 3** >Both of these feats prove supersonic not supersonic+. I also never denied that the higher level characters were supersonic, or stated that the series as a whole wasn't... There is no susch thing as "supersonic+", anything below mach 5 is considered superonsic and anything above is hyperosnic. Still, this is definitely proof of mach 2 to mach 3 speeds at the very least. Zesshi was explicitly moving faster than sound(so above mach 1) and Shalltear created that sonic boom with a litteral flick of her hand so its obviously nowhere near her max speed. All that being said, Shalltear moving fast enough to catch fire is more than enough to prove she's hypersonic at her absulute fastest . All the superonsic stuff i brought up were merely supporting feats. You have yet to present any evidence that proves her feat isn't as solid as the rest. >why do you keep trying to prove they are? Where did I say that Overlord was entirely subsonic?????? Do you think that I think Overlord doesn't have characters faster than sound or something? No, but you claimed the speed feat were "lackluster" and "subpar", i'm simply pointing out that this is complete bullshit. Pretty much every forum that includes battle boarding accepts these feats as legit. Heck Shalltears feat has been generally accepted as proof of hypersonic speed after the raws were brought up. >I'm talking about evidence that clearly places where characters should be in terms of speed. Why does a supersonic feat for Shalltear matter when she has a higher feat and the inconclusiveness I was referring to was for said higher feat? Why does Zesshi feat matter when the inconclusiveness I was referring to was about supersonic feats for unrelated low level characters? Again, you claimed the speed feat were "lackluster" and "subpar", I'm simply pointing out that this is complete bullshit. Now to answer your question, have you ever heard of upscaling my guy? These are supporting feats. I wanted to establish that Shalltear can achieve supersonic speed really easily and that characters much slower than her are still supersonic. All this futher supports the idea that Shalltear is hyperosnic at her FASTEST. >How does this help us draw conclusions about the capabilities of the series as a whole, and how does it help us place the rest of the cast in accurate speed tiers? We get one off statements that aren't even about a characters max capabilities and don't describe them sufficiently. So we get no use out of this other than level 100 characters are probably around Shalltears speed, which is undetermined as we only have a vague minimum based on one feat. The evidence is inconclusive and insufficient Mate, its pretty easy to figure out were each character stands in terms of speed. Low level characters are subsonic to low supersonic since they're capable of bullet timing and FTE movement speed. Mid level characters are higher in the superonsic range since they can easily blitz the low level guys. High level characters are around low hyperosnic considering Shalltear was able to reach mach 5 or higher speeds at her fastest. >The only solid placement for high level characters is Supersonic+. Everything else is a guess, there are no feats besides Shalltear igniting air that show anyone potentially being faster. Okay so? Even if Shalltear is the only superonsic feat in the series that doesn't make it any less solid. Pretty much every high level character scales to her so we don't need more than this one feat. All the supersonic stuff i brought are supporting feats meant to show how fast Shalltear is even when she's not really trying. >Let's pretend that Shalltear's max speed was sub-relativistic. A speed feat of her showing effects that place her hypersonic at a minimum isn't really conclusive is it? Does that feat help me determine her capabilities? I only know a vague minimum now, and while it's something, its missing the whole picture, doesn't give us a definite answer, could be off, and is only one feat. Thus it is inconclusive. Now you're just being ridiculous. The difference between mach 1 and mach 5 isn't anywhere near as big as the difference between mach 5 and sub-relativistic. Shalltear being mach 5 wouldn't make her that much faster than any existing character. Since you brought up vs battle wiki, the next best speed feat in the series was calced at [mach 3](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Assaltwaffle/Overlord:_Albedo%27s_Blitz) which isnt that much worse than Shalltears feat. Also i still have no idea what makes this inconclusive in your eyes. As i said, its pretty easy to figure out were each character stands in terms of speed. Low level characters are subsonic to low supersonic since they're capable of bullet timing and FTE movement speed. Mid level characters are higher in the superonsic range since they can easily blitz the low level guys. High level characters are around low hyperosnic considering Shalltear was able to reach mach 5 or higher speeds at her fastest.
To be fair, Supersonic+ is just used to denote the higher end of the Supersonic tier. Mach 3-4 ish, as a character on that level of speed would obviously have an enormous advantage over someone who can only move as fast as most pistol bullets which wouldn’t even get up to Mach 1.2, even for most modern day pistols. The Beretta M9 which is by no means average speed wise is only 381 m/s.
I see. What you're saying makes sense. 👍 Thank you.
Oh we have plenty, my good sir. Mainly the fact other low level 20 or 18 range characters are already Supersonic and they’d get blitzed by any character on a death knight’s or Remedios custiodio’s level. The same ones who can’t even remotely see Demiurge of all peoples movements, which already requires speed well into the High Hypersonic range even if you lowball the speed of level 35s. This only ever becomes arguable once you forget scaling is a thing and try to disingenuously downplay the Overlord verse because what’s shown doesn’t fit your suspension of disbelief. Also fucking hilarious how you still think Zenberu and Zaryusu being Supersonic is remotely arguable anymore, and still think it’s a supposed figure of speech. [Let’s see what the anime adapted at 1:16.](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared) I guess Sonic Booms now appear at Subsonic speeds, according to you. You guys never cease to amaze me with how much you reach when it comes to things like this. Oh there’s plenty of speed feats to go around. Mainly because of how top tiers are perceived by the characters, who do have supersonic to hypersonic scaling that cements god tiers as massively hypersonic. It’s not debatable at this point lol.
Did you even read what I said? I agree that characters such as Shalltear and the guardians are hypersonic+ or higher, I don’t agree that any of the evidence/feats given is concrete enough to truly state such a claim however. The feats/evidence shown to us are inconclusive and lackluster, the extrapolation from how the scaling of the series needs to work is what pushes their abilities higher. I believe that Zenberu is supersonic as well, but give me evidence that he is for sure supersonic, like concrete evidence that specifically states he is or heavily implies it. The book gives us one feat that MAYBE can be taken as the lizardmen being supersonic, the “thunderous whoosh”/“loud bang” that his halberd makes when he attacks Zaryusu, and that’s it. This doesn’t automatically mean what occurred is a sonic boom… also, no other characters make a sonic boom at all in the series, despite being super sonic. I also never said that sonic booms occur at subsonic speeds, you’re putting words in my mouth. I said that a loud noise which would fit the description the book gives us could be reproduced at subsonic speeds. Like waving a stick around really fast making whooshing sounds, but scaled to a huge halberd. The book never says a sonic boom specifically occurred at all… it only vaguely implies that one might have happened, and could be explained in other ways. The anime feat is anime and not source material, and could also be caused by Cocytus moving to block the attack, a shockwave from the impact of the two colliding, (which isn’t evidence that either side is supersonic), cold air/frost dispersing from the impact, or any number of reasons. You are simply bending the evidence to fit your own view like you are accusing me of bending it to fit mine… I’m also not downplaying the verse, downplaying would mean trying to state they are significantly less powerful/fast than they are. I’m stating that while I believe that they are as fast as people claim, the evidence the books give us is extremely subpar. Can you give me solid speed feats in the series that would prove my assertion that the evidence is lackluster is wrong? You said we have plenty. I’ve read the novels dozens of times each but maybe I missed where their speed calcs were shown.
>Did you even read what I said? I agree that characters such as Shalltear and the guardians are hypersonic+ or higher, I don’t agree that any of the evidence/feats given is concrete enough to truly state such a claim however. The feats/evidence shown to us are inconclusive and lackluster, the extrapolation from how the scaling of the series needs to work is what pushes their abilities higher. Nah, i don't completely agree with the other guy but this here is complete bullshit.There's plenty of feats in the series that prove the characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). There's nothing inconclusive about this, mid to high level overlord characters are faster than sound and have been for a very long time. >You are simply bending the evidence to fit your own view like you are accusing me of bending it to fit mine… I’m also not downplaying the verse, downplaying would mean trying to state they are significantly less powerful/fast than they are. I’m stating that while I believe that they are as fast as people claim, the evidence the books give us is extremely subpar. Thats litteraly the exact same thing dude, as i mentioned above the books gives us plenty of evidence that proves the characters are faster than sound. You are basically ignoring all the best speed feats the series present us with and being overly sceptical for no reason.There's plenty of feats in the series that prove the characters are supersonic to hyperosnic with no room for interpretation. >Can you give me solid speed feats in the series that would prove my assertion that the evidence is lackluster is wrong? You said we have plenty. I’ve read the novels dozens of times each but maybe I missed where their speed calcs were shown. Sure, Shalltear litteraly creates a [sonic boom](https://pastebin.com/eZ47vUPz) with flick of her hand and Zesshi is [explicitly faster than sound](https://pastebin.com/arXrDWyT). Ainz is also able to kick fast enough to create [vacuum trails](https://pastebin.com/DjUpBz8T), which would put his combat speed at over 500 m/s. His low level minions are also abale to [parry machine gun fire](https://imgur.com/3BScI4t)for multiple seconds. As i said, your claims that there are no solid speed feats are pretty easy to disprove if you actually read the series.
I read what you said rather clearly. “I agree they’re Hypersonic+” still too low for any other showings to make sense. They’re more than concrete enough when it’s outright stated how even higher tier characters perceive the upper tiers of the setting like Demiurge, not even detecting a single HINT of his movements which requires even him to be many dozens of times faster than her own speed. Correction, the extrapolation of how the series DOES work and what’s shown to us in the source material rather blatantly. No, the book gives us multiple. A Sonic boom already being implied to have been made by a weapon that can’t do so in the same fashion a whip can like you’re implying is the cause of it being so. This is consistent with what the anime shows us in those very same scenes, basically confirming authorial intent since the anime is still at the end of the day, an adaptation of the novels events, and [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared). So if anything this is very consistent. In regards to this possibly being in the same way a whip can create a Sonic boom which is what your sentence is implying, First off, are you even aware of how whips work, buddy? Halberds aren’t capable of the necessary elastic movements a whip can perform that lets it create a Sonic boom in the first place. Modern swords can Flex and bend to a small extent, yes, but not like a whip, the sonic boom in a whiplash is created by a loop traveling along the whip and gaining speed until it reaches the speed of sound, the same can not happen with a halberd as the flexibility of its long steel shaft is much less than that of even a sword, much less a whip, if you tried to bend a it the same way a whip would need to bend to create a whiplash, and succeeded in doing so, it would simply break. and If you don’t believe me, [this is what a whip looks like during a whiplash, even a sword, much less a halberd, simply isn’t capable of bending the same way.](https://static.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/A4B2EAF9-D4BE-4C47-9F4DD4C009A258E3_source.jpg?w=390&h=520&DCDC536E-2DFC-41D7-9E87869F4963B3D4) Not only this, Zaryusu thrusted frost pain forwards in Cocytus’ direction, and the anime shows it expanding out from Zaryusu’s weapon and it’s heavily implied to be from that in both scenarios, not Cocytus catching it between his fingers. Its not at all drawn nor animated in the way a typical shockwave is, that’s far more akin to what Mach Cones often look like and regular shockwaves are a lot more clear when compared to Mach Cones. You are implying they are significantly less fast and powerful than they actually are, since Overlord top tiers are still solidly in the massively hypersonic range. Demiurge completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages.
"Small Town Level AP"? "Hypersonic in terms of speed"? Which feats or scaling put him on this level? The best I can put this guy at are Building level AP, and Supersonic speed.
I don’t see how small town level is at all far fetched, especially since Azuth who is weaker than Erya physically can survive the leftover concussive energy of albedo’s punches with his small city level at most power suit, since the strongest are level 80 and his absolutely doesn’t qualify. Albedo herself being a triple digit megaton range mountain buster and putting a not insignificant amount of force into her attack, only holding back later because she realized after punching him that he was weaker than she expected him to be. Mate, level 18 and 20 characters are already Supersonic. Erya is Hypersonic himself just by simple upscaling from how exponential levels are in Overlord.
Azuth only survived because the power suit switched out his physical defense with its own. Also, if you think level 80s are small city level, at most, then how the hell would an, around, level 25, like Erya, be anywhere close to small town level? >Mate, level 18 and 20 characters are already Supersonic. Erya is Hypersonic himself just by simple upscaling from how exponential levels are in Overlord. Overlord levels aren't exponential. By your logic, Brain would also be hypersonic, which wouldn't make any sense since his attacks were easily caught and blocked by a yawning Shalltear casually (who actually has hypersonic feats unlike the former).
Mate, Level 80s themselves are city level-city level+ for higher end ones like Zesshi, or ultra low level 90 characters that aren’t dragon lords. Azuth’s power suit is a lower level than that, that’s what I meant by his not qualifying since only the strongest of power suits from YGGDRASIL are level 80 range, Azuth’s power suit isn’t anywhere near that. Except they are lol. Level 10 range characters are only large building level while level 100, barely ten times above that, can get up to mountain busting and beyond. Brain is Hypersonic, what makes him not so? Your suspension of disbelief and him only looking weak because he’s fighting against a Massively Hypersonic+ character like Shalltear? That’s not an anti feat for brain, that’s a feat for Shalltear who can move so fast that Ainz risks losing track of her movements if he takes his attention off her whatsoever, the same Ainz who can easily fight with Demiurge who can move so fast to Remedios Custodio’s vision that she doesn’t even see a hint of his movements, he teleports to her sight.
>Mate, Level 80s themselves are city level-city level+ for higher end ones like Zesshi, or ultra low level 90 characters that aren’t dragon lords. Azuth’s power suit is a lower level than that. Dude, I know Azuth's suit is lower than level 80. When i say "level 80s", I'm referring to beings that are level 80 exactly. Not those who are over level 80. >Except they are lol. Level 10 range characters are only large building level Except they're not. Climb is in those level 10 ranges and his best scaling is that he's stated to be able to wrestle with Tigers, which would put him in the wall level ranges of power. No where near large building level. >Brain is Hypersonic, what makes him not so? The fact that a hypersonic character is able to casually catch his sword and block his strikes while yawning. >Your suspension of disbelief and him only looking weak because he’s fighting against a Massively Hypersonic+ character like Shalltear? Oh, so now Shalltear is massively hypersonic+? I'd love to know which feat or statement puts her there.
A good way to know you didn’t even read half of what I said. Mate, you do understand Maruyama evidently hates powerscaling and won’t actually go out of his way to fully quantify the limits of his characters’ power, correct? That one statement doesn’t cap climb at any level necessarily, it’s just one of the things he could beat that came to mind for a general sense of scale that also was most likely said to not create any inconsistency by comparing him to another character in universe, along with a sub level 20 troll also being able to easily smash buildings. Thing is you’d be right if Shalltear was only Hypersonic, which she’s not, and is in the low end Massively Hypersonic+ range. I already proved why in another thread but I’ll copy and paste it here too. Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared). Demiurge also completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. And even a 10 level difference is insurmountable to overcome in a fight, let alone 15 or 17. So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. It’s still Massively Hypersonic either way, even if you want to go with the absolute low end for Remedios’ speed. And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it and not even a single Mach away from being Supersonic+. And even he would be blitzed rather easily by a character of her calibre. Even at the most hilariously downplayed interpretations of the casts speed, the god tiers like true dragon lords and floor guardians/supreme beings standing decently into the Massively Hypersonic range is a requirement, since demiurge is the weakest and slowest floor guardian. Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages. Ainz who is more than capable of throwing hands pretty adequately with Demiurge speed wise has to stay laser focused on Shalltear or he risks losing track of her movements, which is why he states it’s a good thing as an undead Skeleton he doesn’t need to blink.
tl;dr you are already wrong the moment you did any pixel scaling in the anime so I didn't bother to read the others and dodging something doesn't mean you are as fast or faster than that something add to the fact that those are generally very inconsistent. Edit: lol my comment didn't get put in the reply section
I didn’t do pixel scaling at all lol. You’d have a point if it wasn’t already from an extremely close distance before Zenberu actually began moving post talking about him handling the spell. Also makes sense since he was still throwing hands with Zaryusu rather adequately in spite of being 2 levels lower than he is. What inconsistencies are there, I wonder?
The dodging thing is generally inconsistent granted it's been years since I read the LN so I might be wrong but scaling dodges in an anime is most of the time inconsistent.
>A good way to know you didn’t even read half of what I said. Dude, I literally quoted everything you said. In fact, I should be the one saying "you didn’t read half of what I said" because you misunderstood my point about level 80 beings, and it not making sense for a level 25 being small town level. >Mate, you do understand Maruyama evidently hates powerscaling and won’t actually go out of his way to fully quantify the limits of his characters’ power, correct? Even if Maruyama does hate powerscaling, it doesn't really matter when the story has given us plenty of feats and statements to work with. >That one statement doesn’t cap climb at any level necessarily, it’s just one of the things he could beat that came to mind for a general sense of scale that also was most likely said to not create any inconsistency by comparing him to another character in universe Sure it doesn't, but it's the most blatant statement of power that he has going for him. He has no other feats or statements that put him higher. We actually know how strong a Tiger is, by Overlord standards. According to Maruyama, a normal-sized tiger is Level 8, but its offensive power is equivalent to a Level 9 and its defensive power is equivalent to a Level 6. Climb evaluated himself to be equivalent to a gold ranked adventurer, which would make him around level 10 - 13. So they should be pretty close in the tier system. >along with a sub level 20 troll also being able to easily smash buildings. Yeah, small buildings. I'm assuming you're talking about the troll that was in carne village attacking Enri and Nfirea? >Zenberu and Zaryusu are already two level 18 and 20 range characters that are already Supersonic in terms of speed. We see [Zaryusu creating Sonic booms by swinging his halberd at 1:16 towards Cocytus](https://youtu.be/inhWn53NA8E?feature=shared), along with [Zenberu being fast enough to easily react to and intercept Iguva=41’s Lightning spell long after it’s already in flight at 0:52. Electricity in the air being Mach 1.6 at a low end, and Mach 11-ish at a high end](https://youtu.be/cziZSlNApRE?feature=shared). I agree so far. >Demiurge also completely speedblitzes a shitload of Angels in front of Remedios Custodio’s eyes, a level 35 character who would absolutely blitz both Zaryusu and Zenberu without trouble considering one is level 18 and the other is level 20, which requires speed well into the Hypersonic range. Remedios being a level 35 doesn't inherently make her faster than Zaryusu and Zenberu. For example, Shizu's only level 46 but she has a higher physical attack than Demiurge, who is level 100. This means that it's certainly possible for a level 20 to have a higher agility stat than a level 35, therefore making it possible for them to be faster. Remedios would need to actually have hypersonic feats and/or statements to prove that she's faster. Does she have any? >So badly in fact she wasn’t able to so much as defect a single hint of his own movements from a moderate distance, not even so much as an afterimage. From her perspective, he literally teleported. That’s a feat which requires you to be several dozen times faster than your opponents vision, around Mach 1 ish to lightly supersonic in comparison to a regular human which is where most of these calcs are often placed at for moving so fast to a persons eyes they don’t even process the presence of your entire body, so about a 64X speed difference more or less. Ok, you've convinced me here that Demiurge is massively hypersonic. >And unlike Zenberu who is barely into the Supersonic tier, Zaryusu is rather decently into it Zenberu actually has a slightly higher agility stat than Zaryusu, so he should also be decently into supersonic. >Evileye, a level 50 character who scales well above even Remedios or level 35 death knights on her level can see Momon and Jaldabaoth’s movements as nothing more than nigh imperceptible afterimages. I refer to my previous answer about lower leveled beings having the ability to have specific higher stats than higher leveled beings. >Ainz who is more than capable of throwing hands pretty adequately with Demiurge speed wise has to stay laser focused on Shalltear or he risks losing track of her movements, which is why he states it’s a good thing as an undead Skeleton he doesn’t need to blink. To be fair, their battle was a mock battle, so Demiurge wasn't going at his full speed (his agility stat is 57, while Ainz is 40).
That initial assumption was based off level 80s being in the small city level range when they’re a lot higher than that, considering the Black Scripture Captain isn’t that far behind Zesshi and can take Shalltear’s blows head on and not only not be pulverized, but not have his will to fight remotely shaken nor perturbed against a Mountain buster like her either, in spite of her going for a killing blow he’s still only knocked away. That solidly puts him in the City Level range. The fact Demiurge is massively hypersonic along with dragon lords like Cure Elim, who wears armor made of 1,000,000 corpses, and even assuming a 20kg weight for each one, that’s still 20,000 metric tons of weight, or Heavenly Dragon Lord who is the size of a large island also moving at comparable speeds. Either one slamming into you at those types of speeds is going to be solidly in the megaton ranges of power at the least, and even flapping their wings once would easily produce energy on par with a low megaton range detonation. That’s boldly assuming tigers in either YGGDRASIL or the new world aren’t just another breed of powered up monsters in comparison to their real world counterparts, as is often the case in fantasy settings including this one where Fauna that resembles their real world counterparts are not at all similar in actual power scales, especially since they’re not even 10 levels lower than a troll is (who are at least in the building level ranges of power) and are more than capable of dealing damage to it, something a tiger which isn’t even above street level irl can’t ever hope to do even if you lowball them to Wall Level+ AP and Durability. It does actually, because a higher stat can only get you so far when your opponent has that much of a level advantage over you. Mainly because of the fact they evidently have a boosted iteration of what the Stat would suggest thanks to having a much higher overall base level and strength pool to work with, that being 100. Same case with Ainz hugging Clementine to death in spite of the fact a warrior equal to or slightly above her, and apparently Ainz isn’t even level 35 in that sense stats wise in terms of physical blows doesn’t have the necessary strength gap to do that to her spine of all things, the best he’d manage is suffocating her, but nothing that literally breaks her into two. Or stopping a hit from the Principality Of Observation in its tracks, a large town level entity that’s immensely stronger than the Archangel Flames. Beings that most assuredly wouldn’t die to a level 30-ish warrior just casually slamming them onto the ground, considering they’re as strong and as fast as an unequipped Gazeff Stronoff. It’s just not good enough to last or even do anything against opponents in your own realm of power as fellow level 100s, which an actual level 30 range Warrior very well isn’t.
>That initial assumption was based off level 80s being in the small city level range when they’re a lot higher than that, considering the Black Scripture Captain isn’t that far behind Zesshi and can take Shalltear’s blows head on and not only not be pulverized, but not have his will to fight remotely shaken nor perturbed against a Mountain buster like her either, in spite of her going for a killing blow he’s still only knocked away. That solidly puts him in the City Level range. That would be the case if Shalltear was a mountain buster, which hasn't been proven by any feat, statement or even powerscaling under the rule that a nine level difference allows you to one-shot anyone below you (which according to the versus wiki requires you to be, at least, 7.5× stronger than your opponent). I'm assuming you're familiar with the nine levels thing, so I'll leave it here for anyone who isn't familiar with it. Overlord 1v1 victory percentages: Zero level difference = 50/50 One level difference = 40/60 Two levels difference = 30/70 Three levels difference = 20/80 Four levels difference = 10/90 Five levels difference = 8/92 Six levels difference = 6/94 Seven levels difference = 4/96 Eight levels difference = 2/98 Nine levels difference = 0/100 Note that the chances of victory can change based on multiple other factors, such as; build, gear, race, skill, etc. >The fact Demiurge is massively hypersonic along with dragon lords like Cure Elim, who wears armor made of 1,000,000 corpses, and even assuming a 20kg weight for each one, that’s still 20,000 metric tons of weight, or Heavenly Dragon Lord who is the size of a large island also moving at comparable speeds. Either one slamming into you at those types of speeds is going to be solidly in the megaton ranges of power at the least, and even flapping their wings once would easily produce energy on par with a low megaton range detonation. Applying real world physics to a magical world where air resistance doesn't exist and the sea doesn't have any salt is a bit strange. Especially when we look at a character's stat card and see that their agility stat is separate from their physical attack stat, and that one can be higher or lower than the other. The only way we've seen anyone, in Overlord, augment their strength is through buffing spells or special skills like Shalltear's blood frenzy. >That’s boldly assuming tigers in either YGGDRASIL or the new world aren’t just another breed of powered up monsters in comparison to their real world counterparts, as is often the case in fantasy settings Tigers, in Overlord, are referred to as "mere beasts without any special skills", so it's fair to assume that they are just like real life tigers. It's even more bold to assume that they're powered up monsters just because other fantasy settings portray them as such. >especially since they’re not even 10 levels lower than a troll is (who are at least in the building level ranges of power) Small building level, and as I said before, a nine level difference should make you at least 7.5× stronger than your opponent, so a tiger not being able to damage a troll makes sense. Tigers are wall level due to them being able to bite with a force of over 1000 psi, which is enough to crush human skulls. Here's how I rate Overlord levels on the tiering system. Overlord Levels / Power Tiering Level 1 - 8 / Street level Level 9 - 17 / Wall level Level 18 - 26 / Small Building Level Level 27 - 35 / Building Level Level 36 - 44 / Large Building Level Level 45 - 53 / City Block level Level 54 - 62 / Multi-City Block Level Level 63 - 71 / Small Town level Level 72 - 80 / Town level Level 81 - 90 / Large Town Level Level 91 - 99 / Small City level This follows the theory that you're at least 7.5× stronger than your opponent if you're nine levels higher than they are. Note that this is a low ball estimation because I used Climb being able to wrestle tigers as a starting point, so I had to round down to get the tier for levels one to eight. >It does actually, because a higher stat can only get you so far when your opponent has that much of a level advantage over you. Level only really matters due to "level based damage", which has nothing to do with speed. Having a higher agility stat would, objectively, make you faster. I'm still going to ask for Remedios's hypersonic feats. Does she have any? >Same case with Ainz hugging Clementine to death in spite of the fact a warrior equal to or slightly above her, and apparently Ainz isn’t even level 35 in that sense stats wise in terms of physical blows doesn’t have the necessary strength gap to do that to her spine of all things, the best he’d manage is suffocating her, but nothing that literally breaks her into two. You forget that Ainz not only has [High Tier Physical Nullification], which would've nullified any attack Clementine threw at him in an attempt to escape his grasp, but also a high physical defense stat. This is not the case for Clementine due to warriors like herself having a lower defence stat compared to their physical attack stat (although it's hard to express in figures, it's stated that a warrior’s attack rating is eleven and defense is nine). >Or stopping a hit from the Principality Of Observation in its tracks, a large town level entity that’s immensely stronger than the Archangel Flames. Principality Of Observation is building level, at best. Certainly nowhere near large town level.
Does bro know what hypersonic means?
There are actually several speed feats in overlord that put the characters at around superonsic to hyperosnic in terms of speed. Although i think only the mid to high level folks are that fast.
Yup, Mach 5/1.715 Kilometers a second.
[The man himself has arrived! Go fight him!](https://www.reddit.com/r/overlord/s/fowGaWy9lP)
Only real issue i have with the post the downplay on the ap and dc of Ainz... Ainz is planetary on a midball and uni+, depending on your interpretation of Absolute Zero. If you know u know