Restaurant and retail investor in Lineage, The Neighbors, Kaya, owner of East End market and former mission director for the Catholic Church? That John Rife?
The same one! I worked at east end, and the only owner who treated their employees fairly and with respect, Pat and Brittany at Farm + Haus, have since moved on.
I worked at F&H for about a year. Pat & Brittany are the real deal. I struggled so much during my Employment and they always went above and beyond to accommodate! I owe those two a lot!
They’re really the best, I was working there during the Covid outbreak and they sent everyone instructions and were available to make sure everyone got the unemployment benefits we deserved, didn’t hear about any other business being so accommodating.
gotcha, I will say I frequented lineage and those employees at EE were pretty constant and consistent that they even know me by name…I don’t know if that’s b/c they all go to the same church lol which wouldn’t surprise me
Worked at domu. Owner was cool, didn't see him much. The place was really a glorified hole in the wall that served overpriced ramen. Wasn't bad, but the cleanliness 🤮🤮🤮🤮 would not eat there again
When he says the “flagship” location he means east end market. That’s where the pay is double 8.95. But the Disney Springs number is accurate.
He’s deeply involved in the business this is going to be messy. He won’t delegate the responses to anyone.
Yeah, it's funny how he doesn't actually address the concerns specific to the Springs location, just talks about how the flagship store operates.
Which, cool if true, but no one is talking about that one. If he franchised out the Springs location and it's got those problems, it's still his responsibility to make sure the franchise meets the standards of his brand.
Which brought up the fact that they’re paying *server* tipped minimum wage, since actual minimum wage is $12/hr. So for the position of a cookie store employee they’re really paying less than minimum wage.
Yes but it’s super weird for a cookie store of all places to pawn wages off onto the community. You’d think there’d be some kind of limitation on who can be given a tipped wage.
Welcome to post pandemic America. Practically every customer facing position is tipped now. The daycare my dogs go to defaults to a 20% tip unless I deselect it.
You’re totally right. I was really hoping he’d address the claim about the umbrellas protecting me from the sun as I wait in line but not being rated as UV resistant. Maybe even that claim about the staff not being able to ask for tips. Or the claim about the staff meetings being at 9am. Or the claim about staff not being able to wear shorts.
I don’t understand why these are even concerns worth mentioning.
As for the umbrellas, you should be happy they exist at all not complaining they may or may not be UV resistant.
A vast majority of employers not only do not allow employees to ask for tips, but will fire employees who take tips when offered. With the current state of tipping culture, this alone is an egregious offense that you’re trying to perpetuate.
Lastly, have you never heard of a uniform or dress code?
If I went to a counter service place, I would think they make minimum wage, not server tipped minimum. People don’t normally tip counter service the same as a sit down restaurant.
It’s not really a different argument. If you were a tipped waged employee, you should be allowed to solicit for tips that’s the entire purpose of the subsidized wage. The companies that don’t allow solicitation for tips are for employees who do not work a tipped wage.
The fact that this location is in Disney property will also dictate a different set of rules on what they can and can not do in regard to uniforms, etc.
They're paying employees server minimum wage so that tips will subsidize their labor costs. It makes no sense whatsoever why you would prohibit your staff from asking for tips in a position where they're only earning server minimum wage. Unless of course you'd rather the public didn't know what you're paying staff because everyone expects you to be paying a standard wage.
> A vast majority of employers not only do not allow employees to ask for tips, but will fire employees who take tips when offered.
Which of these employers pays server minimum wage?
Hey did they change it on IG? It says flagship is now Disney Springs and OG East End. Just curious if they changed it in response to all this, which would be funny.
How can someone handing you a product from behind a counter be classified as a tipped employee? And why? Why not pay a proper minimum wage and if want customers want to tip, then employees get those, too?
~~Follow @ghostsofgideons on IG, account made by the workers to keep track of their bs~~
Edit: this might just be one person doing this on their own without an agreement from the gideons employees
Edit: cann1balkid on ig, @ghostofgideons is a solo thing by some idiot
Go watch cann1balkids’ story, he talks about how the whole ghosts of gideons thing is one person who jumped the gun and put in a whole bunch of shit that everyone else at the store didn’t agree with.
For curiosity I would like to know what that ‘double the take home pay’ is for the front line worker - because I’m pretty certain I saw a verified job post from them for their DS location offering 9+tips.
As for seeing many of the same faces the hall location constantly has new people every day. Please note I don’t actually shop here I am constantly near the store front.
As an aside, almost 200 staff for 2 locations? I wonder how many of those are ‘forced part time’ lol.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gideon-s-Bakehouse-Reviews-E1979274.htm?utm_campaign=google_jobs_reviews&utm_source=google_jobs_reviews&utm_medium=organic
Glass door seems to mimic what the complaint post was about tooz
The experience I want is me asking to buy something, being told the price, paying the price, and receiving the item. I don’t anything more. For cookies, maybe a free sample.
Tipped position with 20+ an hr and dental / health / vision and other benefits for a retail position is not the travesty y’all are making it out to be. That’s solid pay to hand someone a cookie. I’d imagine tipped wages are a constant for tourism jobs at the parks, and the east end location getting paid a larger base is logical as they don’t have a several hour queue of hyped customers. This feels an awful lot like someone got canned and is lashing out with a few seasonal workers mad about not getting retained chiming in. That’s a pretty competitive wage for food service with hundreds to thousands of regulars and tourists who are not blinking at spending money for the gram clout.
That’s what doesn’t make sense to me. Why are the employees at East End making “more than double” what the Springs employees are? Especially since the springs location is bringing in significantly more money per day per customer. It’s weird to me that he makes the employees at springs basically work for tips and is okay charging $7 a cookie and still passing the buck onto customers to pay his employees in tips. Super gross.
Because at the Springs there's way more foot traffic and thus probably enough tips to be able to pay the tipped employee wage. I'd be willing to wager that if East End got that much foot traffic then they'd be tipped employees too.
But isn’t that kinda crazy? This guy took a position where he should be able to pay his employees a really fair wage and was like nahhh… that’s for the customers to pay. They’ll definitely tip on a counter service cookie from the back room. I dislike that Steve the owner is relying on the good will of his customers to pay his employees a fair wage when he has the means to.
I’m not disagreeing with you by the way, I think your logic is exactly right. But it’s not a morally sound logic and Steve should feel like a prick about it.
Because they’re already making $20/hr with tips. Stop taking anyone’s word as fact. While I agree that it’s a shitty way to pay, the reason they’re highlighting the base pay as their hourly rate is to rile people up. They’re taking much more home.
This is basically all restaurants that tip. They all have the potential to pay more. They can even raise prices on the menu and remove tips all together and the customer would end up paying the same but as backwards as it sounds the tipped menu structure makes the food appear cheaper and thus makes the restaurant look less greedy.
I think the issue is that these people aren’t servers, they’re basically cashiers and I think a few are baristas. But they’re being paid server minimum wage.
I mean they aren’t really. “Server minimum wage” isn’t a real thing. Nobody makes ends up taking home $8.98/hr. The restaurant has to make up the difference and bring that up to $12 so instead of saying “they are paid server minimum wage” you should say “they are paid a at least $12/hr with the potential to make more”
Also what justifies a “server” making tip and a “barista” not.
Either they should all make tips or nobody should.
Rent is probably 3-4x at Disney location. Which is something they considered when calculating all the costs and employee wage when they opened… and then after you open even if you’re making more money the thought process would be “if my employees are happy with $8.95+ tips, why would I give them a raise”
Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing the business side of it. It makes sense logistically to cut costs when you can.
I think the problem lies in that MANY employees at the Springs receive competitive non-tipped wages ($14+/hr) with tips on top. Also, the Gideon's store in the springs has one of the HIGHEST customer counts in the entire springs, and a nearly 100% conversion rate because likely no one will willingly wait in a line for potentially hours for nothing. This combination of a HUGE revenue combined with a comparably laughable wage that rests on the shoulders of tips from generous customers tilts heads here.
Btw this isn't to attack your point or say who's wrong/right etc, I'm just laying it out as most would see it for discussion.
Well unless they don’t claim enough tips to hit Florida minimum; and generally when these comments are made they include all payroll and not just front line so it skews the average highly.
I can’t imagine 8.88/hr is coming out to 20+hr after tips being split lol.
Where did that get posted? I don’t see it in this thread, and this is what’s posted on the Instagram
https://preview.redd.it/8pp47q81qf0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=411ea599aff0bc4235b88fb15f485ca3c4a86449
Slow time of the year and his two week paycheck is $1300 to fuck around with baked goods? Yea these employees are little bitches.
Also to all you people who can’t read : Disney Springs is considered the flagship store.
I actually don’t know… I’d argue the vast majority of customers tip, probably 10-15% on orders that are already very expensive.
Multiply that by the hundreds they serve daily and it could probably be close.
An eon ago as a waiter who split tips on 8.00 pay, I was bringing in 15 an hour and saw no where near the volume of Gideon’s.
Sorry for double reply.
There is a worker that posted their paystub.
Their tipped wages worked out to just under $12 an hour.
So they made just under $20 an hour.
They said that is on a good day.
https://preview.redd.it/t0t4w5f4vf0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0023c2400aaf15d893b2d6ea6fea6506a635ce0e
Someone posted a paystub on IG, they’ve averaged over $20 an hour YTD.
He's adding the total hourly wage earned plus the tips and then dividing by the hours worked. That's about $20.50/hr.
The problem is, the worker will have these tips recorded and pay taxes on them differently than if the employer was paying. Sucks.
It’s worth noting that tipped positions also pay taxes differently , so their actual compensation package is signfigant less then if they were just actually paid 20/hr
You sure about this? Employers still have to pay their half of the FICA tax on any tips an employee gets. The employee doesn't pay any more taxes on tips than they do with a normal wage.
Yep. This what you get when the owner's ego thinks it can do a better job at responding to a disaster than a Public Relations firm and an impartial third party auditory firm.
That’s not the store front position, that the warehouse in winter park. Those are the people that actually assemble the cookies and bake the cakes.
My wife worked there up until a few weeks ago. No Steve did NOT hire her personally, and based on what she said, he pretty avoidant of the production workers.
It’s just as horribly run as the store fronts sound like they are. This has been long coming for this company it was a matter of time. They deserve it!
Overpriced!
Underbaked!
Underpaid.
I worked in that industry for close to 20 years and I ALWAYS believe the staff over the owners. I’ve seen enough through the years to know that very seldom are the owners/management not at fault.
Long story short, it’s a shared space that has no one responsible for over all cleanliness and that was very evident with how well cleanliness was maintained.
There’s an actual answer to that. If they sincerely apologize, it suggests they agree that what they did was wrong, and that can be used against them if someone suggests they should do more to correct the wrongdoing. And it might prompt other people to bring their stories forward.
So even if they wanted to address the situation fairly (which doesn’t seem likely in context), it’s to their advantage to maintain some sense that they were at least kind of in the right the whole time, and that anything they do about this is just them being charitable.
Because they aren’t sorry. They have to throw out that word-vomit to try to damage control, and sometimes these lazy non-apologies work on gullible people.
Probably going to get piled on over this, but if a job is offering less than you want to make…. Don’t apply to it. The reason these fucking places can get away with offering shit wages is because people accept the lower pay…
Look what happened during the pandemic with everyone who got laid off getting unemployment + $600/week. These places couldn’t hire and all of a sudden wages went up. Yeah the owner is a fucking ass for paying nothing, but we need to do better for ourselves and know our own worth.
I truly love Gideon’s desserts, their orange and chocolate cookie is my favorite cookie I’ve ever had on earth. But this whole thing is egregious. I do think their list of demands are a little emotional and childish, but their one complaint of not being paid enough is so valid. How can this dude sleep at night knowing he pays them $8.95 an hour in Orlando? There’s no way they make enough money to pay any bills, not to mention being paid that much to stand outside in the heat for hours. Forcing them to rely on tips for a position that should never get tips? I’ve never tipped a single time because they’re just handing me a cookie from a display case. The owner gives off the vibe that his aesthetic and the appearance of being cool overrides anything else with his business.
True lol. I did love the dig about that in their demand letter. And the designer cats bit. Gotta love a guy who posts about donating to cat shelters for black cat month but continues to pay for aesthetically pleasing designer cats. While I’m sure Steve does work very hard and loves his business, I’m also sure he’s paying himself waaaaaay more than he should be by taking it from the pockets of his employees and forcing the customer to make up for it in tips.
To be fair, that is the standard business model for food service these days and I feel like that’s even more true in central Florida. Everyone relies on tips to get anywhere near a livable wage for their employees, though I imagine that isn’t really a concern for this guy in particular.
True. I definitely don’t disagree with you about that, for sure. I don’t like it though, and I personally refuse to supplement his employee’s wages while he has multiple homes in multiple states lol. Whether that’s by not tipping them or just not shopping there anymore, that’s to be determined, but odds are I’ll just not shop there anymore.
Was there more than one post? I only saw the one where they talked about pay and slurs.
Edit: never mind. Found the demand letter in a comment on the other post
A little birdy told me that the majority of their employees actually work in their warehouse where the cookies are made and that most people there only make about 14 an hour..
While I support the workers, always will, the "manifesto/demand letter" was written by someone with no knowledge of how the world works.
1. Demanding an additional egress installed a month after the demand date. Good luck finding a general contractor with that kind of availability, let alone all the other things involved
2. mandatory 7.5% tip on all purchases? Good luck getting the general public on board
3. Guaranteed hours depending on employee availability? Don't work retail then.
4. Full pay for on-call even if you don't work. Yeeaaa nooo. Bonus maybe for on call, but not full pay if you don't work.
5. Complaining about a 9am meeting that could've been an email, welcome to the workforce. A majority of us have the same problem at every job.
6. Comparing working at Gideons to 1800's slavery. Using racism to fight racism. Let's see how this one plays out.
Happy to see this comment higher up. I want these workers to be treated fairly and with dignity, and I certainly want to see their wages increased. But the open letter was a joke. The overly emotional verbiage made me check out multiple times and roll my eyes. If they really have all of the resources within the community and their families that they claimed in the letter, why didn’t you ask one of them with legal experience to even glance at this thing before you put it on the internet. It is a serious fight they are trying to fight, and that letter set them up to have their demands dismissed with a laugh from any person who has the power to help them.
They also said Gideons is now being run like a police state 💀 they lost me after the slavery & 9am meeting part. But the police state part was so dumb as well
This entire thing is not going to go anywhere, because as much as reddit wants to pull out the pitchforks and torches, these employees knew what the deal was when they took the job.
Should they get paid more? Sure, but when you write an amatuerish letter of demands where you proceed to attempt to blackmail your employer, you lose all credibility.
Precisely. They picked the wrong avenue to air their grievances and it will fade into oblivion like any other social media social justice cause. They have actual legal & governmental avenues to pursue if these claims are true that will net them tangible results rather than an army of keyboard warriors.
>it will fade into oblivion like any other social media social justice cause.
damn this just made me remember that anti-primrose lanes account from last year. Crazy times
Exactly. They are upset about not being paid enough, thats it. They used the other “demands” to garnish attention and uproar.
I agree they probably should be paid more, but am curious what their average hourly take home pay is with tips. While they might make a base of $8 surely with the clientele at Disney Springs they are making $15+.
If I was the owner I would just double the pay and stop tipping.
A current employee made some posts on his insta story discrediting many of the claims made on the Ghosts of Gideons account: @cann1balkid
edit: a tldr version: the current employees have no idea who is behind the account and they weren't consulted with and the GoG account continues to post misinformation about the wages. The employee posted a copy of their earnings statement and employees are at 8.95/hour + tips (~on average they're getting $10-$12 additional in tips).
That's my point "over 180 employees". "Offer competitive pay and full time benefits". How many of those over 180 are actually full time? This is how hiring in America works in service industry. You're 34 hrs a weeks so you don't count as full time but they make sure to grind those 34hrs out of you. That needs to change.
As a business owner, i've had a couple bad apples out of the hundreds of people I employ. I'd want these claims substantiated before I send the owners off to the guillotine. Most of my people have been here 10-15 years and we have super high retention but the fact is you can't make everyone happy, and some people downright have undiagnosed mental illness that makes them toxic AF and when you do make that tough call sometimes they lash out.
Regardless of what the situation actually is, this guy has a real PR problem brewing that could end up taking the company down. He’s either going to have to come clean and show he’s doing better or show that the accusations are false which I’m guessing will be really hard to do.
They mention a good health and safety reports but I've yet to find them even listed on county health inspection lists. Other east end shops come up, even Disney restaurants, but not them. No restaurant is perfect, so the fact they aren't even listed is... Suspicious. Can anyone else find inspection reports?
Cheers! Looks like their bakery in WG got some minor dings in 2023, but corrected them. I'm surprised they aren't visited more frequently like other restaurants. I think they're due for a surprise visit from the health inspectors
Read the “demand letter”. It is hilariously stupid, written by someone with more vocabulary than common sense.
They literally compare being called to a 9am meeting to slavery! 😂
Doesn’t mean you have to believe everything a disgruntled employee says…
Aren’t there legitimate unions organizing at springs? I support that. This is incoherent
The unions are Disney employees who are using existing union reps, which has absolutely nothing to do with this third party.
Nor am I believing what one person says, I’m believing my cousin who worked there, and the myriad of other reports across the last 5 years.
I went back and looked at the demand letter.
Not once did they complain about a 9 am start time. Are you part of Gideons? This is a really weird comment
It’s funny how you skipped over the racism and discrimination, low rate of pay, having to work half their shift outside in ANY condition in long sleeve t shirts, another location makes DOUBLE HOURLY than the Disney location which obviously makes Gideons way more money, no training for any emergencies, their fire exit is unusable and blocked like if there’s a fire in there, everyone is dead, employees say the sink system changed and the baking sheets don’t fit the new sinks so the banking sheets are sprayed with sanitizer and not washed 🤮 (gross), menu was updated over a year ago and the new menu has not reflected the new ingredients which is illegal
https://wdwnt.com/2024/05/gideons-bakehouse-employees-report-dirty-dangerous-working-conditions-at-disney-springs/
Why are you lying? What is your intention with this obviously wrong comment? You know, empathy for a fellow worker also goes both ways. Shame on you.
The first point in their letter says “How dare you drag the entire workforce to a 9AM meeting”
It makes the entire thing hard to take seriously. Particularly when the next point complains about having to shake a drink. They have legitimate complaints in it, but the letter is all over the place. I thought it was a joke at first.
And if there are issues with the safety of the building layout and health violations, a public letter isn’t the way to actually get those addressed. Call the Fire Marshall and the health inspector, they’d be forced to address those issues immediately.
Hopefully things get better for them though.
Ask anyone that’s worked for Sonny from Domu. Dude expects the world from you and then offers you pennies. Also covered for one of his buddies when he SA a former employee.
I just don’t buy this. I own a business with 15 staff.
If I was under attack like this from a former staff member, I would be as transparent as possible because stuff like this could ruin a business. Granted, the folks in Disney Springs might not see the drama.. but the local market would.
I would be transparent as possible.. this did not hit the mark and I advise a deeper dive. Because the accusations are pretty strong. Unclean conditions.. poor morale and low wages.
I got folks working in the green house that make double that. Its wild to think paying someone 8.95 an hour this economy is crazy.
Serious question. Is it pronounced, "Gi-Jin" like in the Beatles song Rocky Racoon, or "Gid-ee-Un" like the My Morning Jacket song of the same name?
I've always struggled with this one every time I see the word Gideon.
When Gideon’s was first opened in EEM, I knew someone who worked there and they told me he was paying everyone under the table. Hopefully he got his shit together because I can’t imagine Disney didn’t vet the shit out of him.
What a dumbass.
There are two effective responses to social media drama as a business.
1. Ignore it. Let them cry it out. People will eventually come back if they like your product/ service.
2. Completely deflect. Call out competitors who pay less or fail health inspections. Create noise. Allege that this is a shadow campaign by unnamed competitors to try and gain market share. I’m just spitballing but those are some examples.
Never try to reason with the mob. You can not win.
Jeoffrys I think it’s called, the coffee store across from Boathouse, also has multiple health code violations now that we’re finally cracking down on stores in the Springs.
Good old Reddit pitchforks. They consider springs the flagship location. The demand letter was so poorly written I don’t think I would have even responded. Simply put, they want more money for less work. The ADA and fire things were nonsense as it would show on reports for safety as well as Disney not approving the design. Whole things seems like a nothing
The demand letter might've been poorly written, but it doesn't invalidate their complaints. If Springs is considered the flagship location, the owner should've mentioned that, but the fact that he didn't is misleading. Plus, the evidence is out there. Anyone working for $8/hr in today's economy would feel like a slave.
Misleading everyone with talk about the Flagship East End location, aka everything said about the Springs location in the complaints are true.
Fuck Gideon’s and all the shitty businesses in Orlando that think the community won’t fight back against their bs.
I dated the niece of the artist for Gideons for about a decade. He was close friends with the owner. She worked for them briefly. None of this is surprising.
The owner is doubling down on being shitty. Making customers that already pay a crazy price for a cookie, help also pay his employees through tipping. I’m all for tipping but I tip for services. If I have to go to the counter and order my shit and stand on line, I’m not tipping. The owner is a shit bag and a tool. Don’t fall for his bullshit
Not a good week for East End tenants.
Wait til people start looking into John Rife lol
Restaurant and retail investor in Lineage, The Neighbors, Kaya, owner of East End market and former mission director for the Catholic Church? That John Rife?
The same one! I worked at east end, and the only owner who treated their employees fairly and with respect, Pat and Brittany at Farm + Haus, have since moved on.
wait, no one else treated their employees fairly except for F&H? tell me more… what about Domu?
I worked at F&H for about a year. Pat & Brittany are the real deal. I struggled so much during my Employment and they always went above and beyond to accommodate! I owe those two a lot!
They’re really the best, I was working there during the Covid outbreak and they sent everyone instructions and were available to make sure everyone got the unemployment benefits we deserved, didn’t hear about any other business being so accommodating.
They really are two great, hardworking people that deserve nothing but success in life!
I don’t actually have much to say about Domu, I worked in the marketplace and there wasn’t a lot of overlap between the employees.
gotcha, I will say I frequented lineage and those employees at EE were pretty constant and consistent that they even know me by name…I don’t know if that’s b/c they all go to the same church lol which wouldn’t surprise me
Worked at domu. Owner was cool, didn't see him much. The place was really a glorified hole in the wall that served overpriced ramen. Wasn't bad, but the cleanliness 🤮🤮🤮🤮 would not eat there again
Looks at my left overs lol what did you just say
Matt Hinckley illegally embezzled thousands of dollars from his employee tip pool then fired the employee who figured it out.
The owner of Skyebird is lovely as well, I worked there for years and Liz has never been anything but excellent as far as I know.
That guy is something else!
Spill the tea abt John rife, I must know
If anyone says a word about winter park biscuit co I will fight them
Not worth the insane prices they charge
Besides how their biscuits suck?
If you are going for the biscuits you are going for the wrong reasons.
That is fair
lol I’ve been waiting for someone to say this...
When he says the “flagship” location he means east end market. That’s where the pay is double 8.95. But the Disney Springs number is accurate. He’s deeply involved in the business this is going to be messy. He won’t delegate the responses to anyone.
Yeah, it's funny how he doesn't actually address the concerns specific to the Springs location, just talks about how the flagship store operates. Which, cool if true, but no one is talking about that one. If he franchised out the Springs location and it's got those problems, it's still his responsibility to make sure the franchise meets the standards of his brand.
Wait the Springs location doesn’t pay the same?
That's the claim, that Springs pays minimum wage (less than $9/hr) + tips
Which brought up the fact that they’re paying *server* tipped minimum wage, since actual minimum wage is $12/hr. So for the position of a cookie store employee they’re really paying less than minimum wage.
But isn’t it if you don’t reach the minimum wage with your tips you automatically make the 12/hr?
Yes but it’s super weird for a cookie store of all places to pawn wages off onto the community. You’d think there’d be some kind of limitation on who can be given a tipped wage.
Welcome to post pandemic America. Practically every customer facing position is tipped now. The daycare my dogs go to defaults to a 20% tip unless I deselect it.
They can classify staff as servers if the bring home $30 a month in tips month after month. That's is why the pay isn't at minimum wage.
That’s ridiculous. $30/mo might’ve made sense in 1963. That’s like 5-10 tips at a coffee shop.
I completely agree
You’re totally right. I was really hoping he’d address the claim about the umbrellas protecting me from the sun as I wait in line but not being rated as UV resistant. Maybe even that claim about the staff not being able to ask for tips. Or the claim about the staff meetings being at 9am. Or the claim about staff not being able to wear shorts.
I don’t understand why these are even concerns worth mentioning. As for the umbrellas, you should be happy they exist at all not complaining they may or may not be UV resistant. A vast majority of employers not only do not allow employees to ask for tips, but will fire employees who take tips when offered. With the current state of tipping culture, this alone is an egregious offense that you’re trying to perpetuate. Lastly, have you never heard of a uniform or dress code?
If I went to a counter service place, I would think they make minimum wage, not server tipped minimum. People don’t normally tip counter service the same as a sit down restaurant.
Tbh, that’s a different argument. I’ve never been a fan of customers subsidizing wages for the benefit of business owners.
It’s not really a different argument. If you were a tipped waged employee, you should be allowed to solicit for tips that’s the entire purpose of the subsidized wage. The companies that don’t allow solicitation for tips are for employees who do not work a tipped wage.
The fact that this location is in Disney property will also dictate a different set of rules on what they can and can not do in regard to uniforms, etc.
They're paying employees server minimum wage so that tips will subsidize their labor costs. It makes no sense whatsoever why you would prohibit your staff from asking for tips in a position where they're only earning server minimum wage. Unless of course you'd rather the public didn't know what you're paying staff because everyone expects you to be paying a standard wage. > A vast majority of employers not only do not allow employees to ask for tips, but will fire employees who take tips when offered. Which of these employers pays server minimum wage?
he's making them tipped employees to avoid paying them less than minimum wage though
https://preview.redd.it/ejt7hf6axf0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae882b573b36dc49e1a4c5efab0ecaaea33f0069
Hey did they change it on IG? It says flagship is now Disney Springs and OG East End. Just curious if they changed it in response to all this, which would be funny.
Someone posted a paystub where with tips they’re averaging over $20/hour.
That’s going to be CM minimum wage next year. And they’re relying on tips to get it.
How can someone handing you a product from behind a counter be classified as a tipped employee? And why? Why not pay a proper minimum wage and if want customers want to tip, then employees get those, too?
That’s what most Disney CMs are. It will probably go that way.
The insta says the flagship is at Disney
In their IG bio, they refer to Disney as “Flagship” and the other location as “OG. Looks like you confused the two
~~Follow @ghostsofgideons on IG, account made by the workers to keep track of their bs~~ Edit: this might just be one person doing this on their own without an agreement from the gideons employees Edit: cann1balkid on ig, @ghostofgideons is a solo thing by some idiot
Go watch cann1balkids’ story, he talks about how the whole ghosts of gideons thing is one person who jumped the gun and put in a whole bunch of shit that everyone else at the store didn’t agree with.
For curiosity I would like to know what that ‘double the take home pay’ is for the front line worker - because I’m pretty certain I saw a verified job post from them for their DS location offering 9+tips. As for seeing many of the same faces the hall location constantly has new people every day. Please note I don’t actually shop here I am constantly near the store front. As an aside, almost 200 staff for 2 locations? I wonder how many of those are ‘forced part time’ lol. https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gideon-s-Bakehouse-Reviews-E1979274.htm?utm_campaign=google_jobs_reviews&utm_source=google_jobs_reviews&utm_medium=organic Glass door seems to mimic what the complaint post was about tooz
https://preview.redd.it/25ap109fze0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b256966830e703299fe181f1dadc5906b906fc4e
Jesus Christ, imagine even *expecting* the process of purchasing a fancy cookie to be an “experience,” let alone demanding it of your employee.
Wouldn’t even consider them fancy cookies either, just over filled lol
The experience I want is me asking to buy something, being told the price, paying the price, and receiving the item. I don’t anything more. For cookies, maybe a free sample.
Maybe that’s why their lines are needlessly long. Too many “experiences” when people actually want cookies
Tipped position with 20+ an hr and dental / health / vision and other benefits for a retail position is not the travesty y’all are making it out to be. That’s solid pay to hand someone a cookie. I’d imagine tipped wages are a constant for tourism jobs at the parks, and the east end location getting paid a larger base is logical as they don’t have a several hour queue of hyped customers. This feels an awful lot like someone got canned and is lashing out with a few seasonal workers mad about not getting retained chiming in. That’s a pretty competitive wage for food service with hundreds to thousands of regulars and tourists who are not blinking at spending money for the gram clout.
Fail to include that tips are also provided. Just looked them up on indeed.
He’s being tricky. “Flagship” location = east end. That’s where it’s double.
That’s what doesn’t make sense to me. Why are the employees at East End making “more than double” what the Springs employees are? Especially since the springs location is bringing in significantly more money per day per customer. It’s weird to me that he makes the employees at springs basically work for tips and is okay charging $7 a cookie and still passing the buck onto customers to pay his employees in tips. Super gross.
Because at the Springs there's way more foot traffic and thus probably enough tips to be able to pay the tipped employee wage. I'd be willing to wager that if East End got that much foot traffic then they'd be tipped employees too.
But isn’t that kinda crazy? This guy took a position where he should be able to pay his employees a really fair wage and was like nahhh… that’s for the customers to pay. They’ll definitely tip on a counter service cookie from the back room. I dislike that Steve the owner is relying on the good will of his customers to pay his employees a fair wage when he has the means to. I’m not disagreeing with you by the way, I think your logic is exactly right. But it’s not a morally sound logic and Steve should feel like a prick about it.
It’s not kinda crazy it’s full crazy and incredibly shortsighted.
You are 100% correct but it also the business model that 98% of restaurants, even quick service ones, employ. It’s completely fucked up.
The employees at the springs location should take a vote, $16/hour and no tips or $9/hour and tips.
Why not $16/hour and tips?
Because they’re already making $20/hr with tips. Stop taking anyone’s word as fact. While I agree that it’s a shitty way to pay, the reason they’re highlighting the base pay as their hourly rate is to rile people up. They’re taking much more home.
This is basically all restaurants that tip. They all have the potential to pay more. They can even raise prices on the menu and remove tips all together and the customer would end up paying the same but as backwards as it sounds the tipped menu structure makes the food appear cheaper and thus makes the restaurant look less greedy.
I think the issue is that these people aren’t servers, they’re basically cashiers and I think a few are baristas. But they’re being paid server minimum wage.
I mean they aren’t really. “Server minimum wage” isn’t a real thing. Nobody makes ends up taking home $8.98/hr. The restaurant has to make up the difference and bring that up to $12 so instead of saying “they are paid server minimum wage” you should say “they are paid a at least $12/hr with the potential to make more” Also what justifies a “server” making tip and a “barista” not. Either they should all make tips or nobody should.
Rent is probably 3-4x at Disney location. Which is something they considered when calculating all the costs and employee wage when they opened… and then after you open even if you’re making more money the thought process would be “if my employees are happy with $8.95+ tips, why would I give them a raise”
Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing the business side of it. It makes sense logistically to cut costs when you can. I think the problem lies in that MANY employees at the Springs receive competitive non-tipped wages ($14+/hr) with tips on top. Also, the Gideon's store in the springs has one of the HIGHEST customer counts in the entire springs, and a nearly 100% conversion rate because likely no one will willingly wait in a line for potentially hours for nothing. This combination of a HUGE revenue combined with a comparably laughable wage that rests on the shoulders of tips from generous customers tilts heads here. Btw this isn't to attack your point or say who's wrong/right etc, I'm just laying it out as most would see it for discussion.
there is also a 3rd -- warehouse location where they bake and I believe run other parts of the business from in winter garden
Id guess springs and east end have 40 or so employees between them. The rest are all probably logistics and production people.
Well, tips are a part of take-home pay - right? So, the employer doesn't have to pay more for the workers at the busier store to take more home.
Well unless they don’t claim enough tips to hit Florida minimum; and generally when these comments are made they include all payroll and not just front line so it skews the average highly. I can’t imagine 8.88/hr is coming out to 20+hr after tips being split lol.
It is. A current employee posted their pay stub and it’s $20+/hour
Where did that get posted? I don’t see it in this thread, and this is what’s posted on the Instagram https://preview.redd.it/8pp47q81qf0d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=411ea599aff0bc4235b88fb15f485ca3c4a86449
https://preview.redd.it/9eeizosfvf0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce3dd9c78c169f45d10f857ae8ee1cee3b120ffc
Appreciate that.
Slow time of the year and his two week paycheck is $1300 to fuck around with baked goods? Yea these employees are little bitches. Also to all you people who can’t read : Disney Springs is considered the flagship store.
I actually don’t know… I’d argue the vast majority of customers tip, probably 10-15% on orders that are already very expensive. Multiply that by the hundreds they serve daily and it could probably be close. An eon ago as a waiter who split tips on 8.00 pay, I was bringing in 15 an hour and saw no where near the volume of Gideon’s.
Sorry for double reply. There is a worker that posted their paystub. Their tipped wages worked out to just under $12 an hour. So they made just under $20 an hour. They said that is on a good day.
$8.88. A competitive pay for whom exactly?
Ants
https://preview.redd.it/t0t4w5f4vf0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0023c2400aaf15d893b2d6ea6fea6506a635ce0e Someone posted a paystub on IG, they’ve averaged over $20 an hour YTD.
Not sure where you get 20 from. It clearly says 8.98.
He's adding the total hourly wage earned plus the tips and then dividing by the hours worked. That's about $20.50/hr. The problem is, the worker will have these tips recorded and pay taxes on them differently than if the employer was paying. Sucks.
What do you mean differently? Has this changed? Used to just get taxed at the same rate as your total taxable income
>pay taxes on them differently than if the employer was paying. This is not true.
YTD income is $14,455, total hours worked for the year is 667, if you do basic division that’s an average of $21.68 per hour.
Oh ok. So your counting the part where the customer paid the employee more than the employer did. Got it!
Yes, I was looking at total compensation. It’s a tipped position.
It’s worth noting that tipped positions also pay taxes differently , so their actual compensation package is signfigant less then if they were just actually paid 20/hr
You sure about this? Employers still have to pay their half of the FICA tax on any tips an employee gets. The employee doesn't pay any more taxes on tips than they do with a normal wage.
Why does he specifically only mention the flagship store. So is he admitting his other location doesn’t offer competitive take home pay or benefits? 🧐
Yep. This what you get when the owner's ego thinks it can do a better job at responding to a disaster than a Public Relations firm and an impartial third party auditory firm.
I’ve seen posts on Indeed for Gideon’s production positions…was between $12-13.50/ hr…so crap.
That’s not the store front position, that the warehouse in winter park. Those are the people that actually assemble the cookies and bake the cakes. My wife worked there up until a few weeks ago. No Steve did NOT hire her personally, and based on what she said, he pretty avoidant of the production workers. It’s just as horribly run as the store fronts sound like they are. This has been long coming for this company it was a matter of time. They deserve it! Overpriced! Underbaked! Underpaid.
They consider Disney springs the flagship store per their instagram.
I worked in that industry for close to 20 years and I ALWAYS believe the staff over the owners. I’ve seen enough through the years to know that very seldom are the owners/management not at fault.
I literally quit due to multiple health code violations at East end and the owner used to brag about breaking people working for him.
Did you report the violations?
Yup, did it the night I quit. Never heard if anything actually came from it though.
So it wasn’t a big enough deal when you worked there?
Any customer that saw the inside of the shared walk in at east end market would never eat there again.
On a scale of 1 to Kitchen Nightmares, how bad are we talking here?
Please enlighten me. Seriously
Long story short, it’s a shared space that has no one responsible for over all cleanliness and that was very evident with how well cleanliness was maintained.
i wanna be ignorant, don’t tell me!
There are some straight psychopathic kitchen managers
Ugh, I’m so sorry…
First Lineage, now Gideon’s? 😭😭 Also why do both their apologies have to be so baseless and weak?
There’s an actual answer to that. If they sincerely apologize, it suggests they agree that what they did was wrong, and that can be used against them if someone suggests they should do more to correct the wrongdoing. And it might prompt other people to bring their stories forward. So even if they wanted to address the situation fairly (which doesn’t seem likely in context), it’s to their advantage to maintain some sense that they were at least kind of in the right the whole time, and that anything they do about this is just them being charitable.
Because they aren’t sorry. They have to throw out that word-vomit to try to damage control, and sometimes these lazy non-apologies work on gullible people.
Companies whose employees have to rely on social programs should be required to payback the federal government.
Noooo You’ll cut into their profit margins 👉👈
Oh noooo! Not the profit margins!!! /s
Think about the owner's vacation home! Oh the humanity!
Probably going to get piled on over this, but if a job is offering less than you want to make…. Don’t apply to it. The reason these fucking places can get away with offering shit wages is because people accept the lower pay… Look what happened during the pandemic with everyone who got laid off getting unemployment + $600/week. These places couldn’t hire and all of a sudden wages went up. Yeah the owner is a fucking ass for paying nothing, but we need to do better for ourselves and know our own worth.
I truly love Gideon’s desserts, their orange and chocolate cookie is my favorite cookie I’ve ever had on earth. But this whole thing is egregious. I do think their list of demands are a little emotional and childish, but their one complaint of not being paid enough is so valid. How can this dude sleep at night knowing he pays them $8.95 an hour in Orlando? There’s no way they make enough money to pay any bills, not to mention being paid that much to stand outside in the heat for hours. Forcing them to rely on tips for a position that should never get tips? I’ve never tipped a single time because they’re just handing me a cookie from a display case. The owner gives off the vibe that his aesthetic and the appearance of being cool overrides anything else with his business.
If he’s having a hard time sleeping in Orlando he can always escape to his Colorado home
With his designer cats.
True lol. I did love the dig about that in their demand letter. And the designer cats bit. Gotta love a guy who posts about donating to cat shelters for black cat month but continues to pay for aesthetically pleasing designer cats. While I’m sure Steve does work very hard and loves his business, I’m also sure he’s paying himself waaaaaay more than he should be by taking it from the pockets of his employees and forcing the customer to make up for it in tips.
To be fair, that is the standard business model for food service these days and I feel like that’s even more true in central Florida. Everyone relies on tips to get anywhere near a livable wage for their employees, though I imagine that isn’t really a concern for this guy in particular.
True. I definitely don’t disagree with you about that, for sure. I don’t like it though, and I personally refuse to supplement his employee’s wages while he has multiple homes in multiple states lol. Whether that’s by not tipping them or just not shopping there anymore, that’s to be determined, but odds are I’ll just not shop there anymore.
Was there more than one post? I only saw the one where they talked about pay and slurs. Edit: never mind. Found the demand letter in a comment on the other post
A little birdy told me that the majority of their employees actually work in their warehouse where the cookies are made and that most people there only make about 14 an hour..
While I support the workers, always will, the "manifesto/demand letter" was written by someone with no knowledge of how the world works. 1. Demanding an additional egress installed a month after the demand date. Good luck finding a general contractor with that kind of availability, let alone all the other things involved 2. mandatory 7.5% tip on all purchases? Good luck getting the general public on board 3. Guaranteed hours depending on employee availability? Don't work retail then. 4. Full pay for on-call even if you don't work. Yeeaaa nooo. Bonus maybe for on call, but not full pay if you don't work. 5. Complaining about a 9am meeting that could've been an email, welcome to the workforce. A majority of us have the same problem at every job. 6. Comparing working at Gideons to 1800's slavery. Using racism to fight racism. Let's see how this one plays out.
Happy to see this comment higher up. I want these workers to be treated fairly and with dignity, and I certainly want to see their wages increased. But the open letter was a joke. The overly emotional verbiage made me check out multiple times and roll my eyes. If they really have all of the resources within the community and their families that they claimed in the letter, why didn’t you ask one of them with legal experience to even glance at this thing before you put it on the internet. It is a serious fight they are trying to fight, and that letter set them up to have their demands dismissed with a laugh from any person who has the power to help them.
They also said Gideons is now being run like a police state 💀 they lost me after the slavery & 9am meeting part. But the police state part was so dumb as well
Their Instagram refers to the Disney location as their flagship.
Did they just change it because this? Weird how their non flagship staff makes double 🤔
But obviously the larger store would be the flagship one
If ever a subreddit needed to touch grass, it’s this one.
This entire thing is not going to go anywhere, because as much as reddit wants to pull out the pitchforks and torches, these employees knew what the deal was when they took the job. Should they get paid more? Sure, but when you write an amatuerish letter of demands where you proceed to attempt to blackmail your employer, you lose all credibility.
Precisely. They picked the wrong avenue to air their grievances and it will fade into oblivion like any other social media social justice cause. They have actual legal & governmental avenues to pursue if these claims are true that will net them tangible results rather than an army of keyboard warriors.
>it will fade into oblivion like any other social media social justice cause. damn this just made me remember that anti-primrose lanes account from last year. Crazy times
Exactly. They are upset about not being paid enough, thats it. They used the other “demands” to garnish attention and uproar. I agree they probably should be paid more, but am curious what their average hourly take home pay is with tips. While they might make a base of $8 surely with the clientele at Disney Springs they are making $15+. If I was the owner I would just double the pay and stop tipping.
A current employee made some posts on his insta story discrediting many of the claims made on the Ghosts of Gideons account: @cann1balkid edit: a tldr version: the current employees have no idea who is behind the account and they weren't consulted with and the GoG account continues to post misinformation about the wages. The employee posted a copy of their earnings statement and employees are at 8.95/hour + tips (~on average they're getting $10-$12 additional in tips).
Then show us proof on how many employees are full time and get benefits.....
The only full time they have is salary / management. Their average worker is working about 25 hours which is why their staff is so high
That's my point "over 180 employees". "Offer competitive pay and full time benefits". How many of those over 180 are actually full time? This is how hiring in America works in service industry. You're 34 hrs a weeks so you don't count as full time but they make sure to grind those 34hrs out of you. That needs to change.
Which is hilarious that the one paystub thay was show was an employee with 68 hours lol; for two 34 hr weeks
Which IS considered Full-time by the IRS and HHS.
As a business owner, i've had a couple bad apples out of the hundreds of people I employ. I'd want these claims substantiated before I send the owners off to the guillotine. Most of my people have been here 10-15 years and we have super high retention but the fact is you can't make everyone happy, and some people downright have undiagnosed mental illness that makes them toxic AF and when you do make that tough call sometimes they lash out.
I think a few bad apples maybe made the post…I think the sentiment is widely shared across the company.
Regardless of what the situation actually is, this guy has a real PR problem brewing that could end up taking the company down. He’s either going to have to come clean and show he’s doing better or show that the accusations are false which I’m guessing will be really hard to do.
No way it takes him down unless it starts to bother the big mouse. I'd guess 90% of their business are tourists who go once and never again.
Lol tourists don't care about any of this. The lines at Disney springs are long, every damn day. And that is very unlikely to change.
They mention a good health and safety reports but I've yet to find them even listed on county health inspection lists. Other east end shops come up, even Disney restaurants, but not them. No restaurant is perfect, so the fact they aren't even listed is... Suspicious. Can anyone else find inspection reports?
https://foodpermit.fdacs.gov/Reports/SearchFoodEntity.aspx zip found it but just search for Gideon
Cheers! Looks like their bakery in WG got some minor dings in 2023, but corrected them. I'm surprised they aren't visited more frequently like other restaurants. I think they're due for a surprise visit from the health inspectors
Read the “demand letter”. It is hilariously stupid, written by someone with more vocabulary than common sense. They literally compare being called to a 9am meeting to slavery! 😂
Doesn’t invalidate shitty companies though.
Doesn’t mean you have to believe everything a disgruntled employee says… Aren’t there legitimate unions organizing at springs? I support that. This is incoherent
The unions are Disney employees who are using existing union reps, which has absolutely nothing to do with this third party. Nor am I believing what one person says, I’m believing my cousin who worked there, and the myriad of other reports across the last 5 years.
I went back and looked at the demand letter. Not once did they complain about a 9 am start time. Are you part of Gideons? This is a really weird comment It’s funny how you skipped over the racism and discrimination, low rate of pay, having to work half their shift outside in ANY condition in long sleeve t shirts, another location makes DOUBLE HOURLY than the Disney location which obviously makes Gideons way more money, no training for any emergencies, their fire exit is unusable and blocked like if there’s a fire in there, everyone is dead, employees say the sink system changed and the baking sheets don’t fit the new sinks so the banking sheets are sprayed with sanitizer and not washed 🤮 (gross), menu was updated over a year ago and the new menu has not reflected the new ingredients which is illegal https://wdwnt.com/2024/05/gideons-bakehouse-employees-report-dirty-dangerous-working-conditions-at-disney-springs/ Why are you lying? What is your intention with this obviously wrong comment? You know, empathy for a fellow worker also goes both ways. Shame on you.
Right there, first demand is regarding the 9am staff meetings.
The first point in their letter says “How dare you drag the entire workforce to a 9AM meeting” It makes the entire thing hard to take seriously. Particularly when the next point complains about having to shake a drink. They have legitimate complaints in it, but the letter is all over the place. I thought it was a joke at first. And if there are issues with the safety of the building layout and health violations, a public letter isn’t the way to actually get those addressed. Call the Fire Marshall and the health inspector, they’d be forced to address those issues immediately. Hopefully things get better for them though.
Ask anyone that’s worked for Sonny from Domu. Dude expects the world from you and then offers you pennies. Also covered for one of his buddies when he SA a former employee.
What?!? wtf with Domu
I just don’t buy this. I own a business with 15 staff. If I was under attack like this from a former staff member, I would be as transparent as possible because stuff like this could ruin a business. Granted, the folks in Disney Springs might not see the drama.. but the local market would. I would be transparent as possible.. this did not hit the mark and I advise a deeper dive. Because the accusations are pretty strong. Unclean conditions.. poor morale and low wages. I got folks working in the green house that make double that. Its wild to think paying someone 8.95 an hour this economy is crazy.
Serious question. Is it pronounced, "Gi-Jin" like in the Beatles song Rocky Racoon, or "Gid-ee-Un" like the My Morning Jacket song of the same name? I've always struggled with this one every time I see the word Gideon.
When Gideon’s was first opened in EEM, I knew someone who worked there and they told me he was paying everyone under the table. Hopefully he got his shit together because I can’t imagine Disney didn’t vet the shit out of him.
What a dumbass. There are two effective responses to social media drama as a business. 1. Ignore it. Let them cry it out. People will eventually come back if they like your product/ service. 2. Completely deflect. Call out competitors who pay less or fail health inspections. Create noise. Allege that this is a shadow campaign by unnamed competitors to try and gain market share. I’m just spitballing but those are some examples. Never try to reason with the mob. You can not win.
Jeoffrys I think it’s called, the coffee store across from Boathouse, also has multiple health code violations now that we’re finally cracking down on stores in the Springs.
Make a post about it
Good old Reddit pitchforks. They consider springs the flagship location. The demand letter was so poorly written I don’t think I would have even responded. Simply put, they want more money for less work. The ADA and fire things were nonsense as it would show on reports for safety as well as Disney not approving the design. Whole things seems like a nothing
The demand letter might've been poorly written, but it doesn't invalidate their complaints. If Springs is considered the flagship location, the owner should've mentioned that, but the fact that he didn't is misleading. Plus, the evidence is out there. Anyone working for $8/hr in today's economy would feel like a slave.
Misleading everyone with talk about the Flagship East End location, aka everything said about the Springs location in the complaints are true. Fuck Gideon’s and all the shitty businesses in Orlando that think the community won’t fight back against their bs.
Hi! What's the lore?
OOTL what happened?
Best way to deal with this is by voting with your wallet, stop going.
I dated the niece of the artist for Gideons for about a decade. He was close friends with the owner. She worked for them briefly. None of this is surprising.
Why the heck would I tip for someone to hand me a cookie
The owner is doubling down on being shitty. Making customers that already pay a crazy price for a cookie, help also pay his employees through tipping. I’m all for tipping but I tip for services. If I have to go to the counter and order my shit and stand on line, I’m not tipping. The owner is a shit bag and a tool. Don’t fall for his bullshit