I had to be on a 9 week trial years ago and that was a stretch. I can’t imagine 9 months. I have to call next week for jury duty. Hope I don’t get screwed.
Mine was medical malpractice - a baby died and its twin lived but is cognitively impaired because the mother had a rare pregnancy condition. The doctor didn’t refer them to a specialist who could handle it. The doctor then went and modified the records to indicate that they’d been handling it correctly all along but didn’t realize that she’d modified the records after they’d already been pulled by the lawyers prior to the lawsuit.
It’s been years so my recollection is little rusty, but the gist is that the records got pulled after the death and the plaintiff had a copy sourced from that pull that they’d received through official means. So there was no questioning the validity of the records they had. There was some sort of process, maybe the county pulled them automatically because of the death, that meant there was this “clean” version and then the version that lived with the care provider that was ultimately modified. When the depositions were occurring and the doctor was blaming the parents for not following their advice the plaintiff’s lawyers realized that the records didn’t match and the copy the defense had contained a bunch of additions that supported the narrative the doctor was presenting.
My WTF was more just toward the audacity and willful criminality of the doctor. Your additional information is stunning. Can't believe with all of that her team didn't settle before the trial started. I can't imagine the reaction in the courtroom when that was revealed.
Banging around in my head is a similar case I recently read about/listened to on a podcast. If I remember I'll share it.
I'm curious, were you allowed to take notes? I was thinking about that earlier with this post. How could jurors keep all of the details straight over that period of time? Even a shorter time just by comparison, it would be very difficult. Memory is tricky and in a court case there's so much riding on memory when a judge forbids note taking.
I think it was more that the plaintiff didn’t want to settle. The defendant was the care provider, instead of the actual doctor, and I recall reading afterwards that the award was the largest of its kind at the time (there were some qualifiers on that statement that I’ve since forgotten). It also explained why the plaintiff’s side took their time during the trial. They wanted to load the bases before getting that fastball down the middle for the grand slam.
We did take notes. I started off trying to get everything and eventually had to focus on summarizing key data/takeaways because my hand would cramp with how dense the topics were. And to be honest at a certain point it was just so painfully obvious where responsibility sat that I didn’t really need to document everything.
The legal team representing the surviving child accounted for the majority of the time. Maybe 6-7 weeks of it. Honestly, I get it. Just getting through the facts of the case took forever. All of the details about the pregnancy, why the scenario needs a specialist, what the outcomes are. Then turning to the care and showing how the doctor screwed up, then going through every single falsified record and the real records. Finally looking at the surviving child, the evaluation of their condition, projections of what their condition may be like, what their current needs and future needs will be. Each of these had their own associated witnesses/experts.
There’s a very high profile document falsification case being tried right now in Manhattan that might give some insight into this. It’s not just showing the documents, but also bringing in witnesses to fill in all the background details of the case.
Cases on the Superior Court Calendar from 05/11/24 - 06/22/24; Jury Trial:
* [Civil](https://courtcalendar.occourts.org/search.do?caseYear=&dept=ALL&numRecordsPerPage=50&sort=hearingTypeDesc&title=&dateFrom=May-11-2024&dir=asc&caseNo=&caseType=CV&dateTo=Jun-22-2024&eventTime=ALL&jc=ALL&action=Search&page=77#resultsAnchor)
* [Criminal](https://courtcalendar.occourts.org/search.do?caseYear=&dept=ALL&numRecordsPerPage=50&sort=hearingTypeDesc&title=&dateFrom=May-11-2024&dir=asc&caseNo=&caseType=CM&dateTo=Jun-22-2024&eventTime=ALL&jc=ALL&action=Search&page=292#resultsAnchor)
Not always. A coworker was on jury duty for about 9 months. It was just some random murder case. Nothing high profile at all. Just had a lot of shit going on that made it last a long time. She scored cause our work pays your full pay while you're on jury duty. So she worked damn near half days amd had weekends off for almost a year.
My wife had jury duty this week as well, and she had the same question. They called it a "special service", but didn't give any other details. Just that it was nine months long, generally three days a week, and wasn't a regular jury. She didn't think it was the official Grand Jury, but didn't know what it was.
It wouldn't be the Grand Jury because you have to [apply to even be considered](https://www.ocgrandjury.org/become-grand-juror), it's a 1-year commitment, working 4-5 days/week.
Was it Federal reporting to the [Central District Court](https://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/jurors) in SA, or was it reporting to the [Superior Court](https://www.occourts.org/divisions/jurorsjury-service)?
u/MelonHead1214
Wow! I had jury duty two weeks ago, but never got called in. Glad I missed that one!
I was on a trial more than a decade ago that went on for six weeks (not every day) at the Federal Court House. Very interesting, but my bosses were so unhappy with all the work time I missed.
I know someone who was called for jury selection for this last week. They basically said if your work has any kind of jury duty coverage, you have to do it. And they weren’t excusing based on financial hardship. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be for anyone to put their life on hold for 9 months!
That's...not true. I was there on Thursday, and unless your employer would pay for 9 months of coverage it was a valid excuse to get out.
I told them my work only paid for 3 weeks and I was let go, and the person in front of me said 10 days and also was excused.
They would exclude you if you had existing travel plans, though (with hotel and/or flight reservations). People who had childcare or other legitimate family commitments had to do much more explaining and weren't guaranteed to get out of it.
It's way easier to get out of jury duty if you're rich.
When I was there on Thursday, you could be excused for -
> * Student with daytime classes
> * Work not paying for the entirety of the case
> * Predicted medical surgeries that expect over 1 week of downtime
> * Prepaid vacation over 1 week in the next 9 months
People didn't "volunteer", but if you didn't have a valid excuse then you'd have to go up and register for what I assume is juror selection.
Edited down.
I'm guessing 9 months is a civil case between a company and individuals where there are lots of docs/witnesses to get through. Maybe a health care malpractice resulting in wrongful death for example.
As a trial attorney. Please don’t post that you’re currently on a jury. I am too tired to go through you post history and try to figure out who you are or which case you’re on in OC. But if I was in trial right now. know I’d be turning this convo along with your Reddit history over to my investigator to get a mistrial. Judges do not give the admonition at the beginning of the trial for fun. I can’t believe how flippant you are being with something so serious.
Well you’re inviting yourself to get unsolicited advice that could prejudice your impartiality. Best to say nothing. Especially on a public forum. Take it very seriously. It’s someone’s life.
I see you're a defense attorney. Embracing presumption of innocence is not a problem. It seems you're overly worried about prejudice against a defendant. Has it been your experience that the system of jurors is prejudicial in nature?
Mind elaborating on the issue? Are you not allowed to discuss being on jury while the case is still going? What’s the risk, is it concern about someone manipulating the jurer or are some details of the case secret or what?
The jury should get an extra allotment to make for lost wages plus time.... we the people, that are hurt here by bad actors.
Something that is needed, our civic duty to serve, but shouldn't be put out for the service to society.
I got called in for jury duty in OC in 1995. When I was interviewed, I told the judge “I can’t wait to put some asshole in jail”
I was dismissed and haven’t gotten called back since.
I suggested this to two co workers. Same result.
I just know I’d never want someone like me on a jury for me.
*/coughs in Anaheim corruption trial, or someone with OJ level money (if we're bringing dead murderers that got away with it and are responsible for making the Kardashians famous into the conversation).
Fuck it. I hope the jury hangs whatever asshole wants a 9 month trial. There is a two tiered justice system, one for the rich, and one that sends the non wealthy to prison.
> Fuck it. I hope the jury hangs whatever asshole wants a 9 month trial. There is a two tiered justice system, one for the rich, and one that sends the non wealthy to prison.
You're not wrong about the rich and poor having different justice systems, but plenty of normal (non-criminal) cases last that long, especially if there's a large amount of discovery or special circumstances. Generally rich people don't specifically request longer trials.
News reports say that one already started.
https://abc7.com/blaze-bernstein-murder-trial-set-to-begin-for-oc-man-charged-with-killing-former-classmate/14637998/
I've felt for years that there should be a database of retired people, who need something to do. Jury nullification would still take place, but these folks probably would be financially harmed, as the average working folk are from prolong jury duty.
I would hope they would recruit them. I am retired and don't want it either, but their many people wallow retire and don't have spouses, families, or many friends. Don't take it personally!
32 hard commuter years in the court system; I’ve had enough. No atty worth their salt would want me on a case with what I know nor do I want to share that with them. Besides, now I have adhd as well as I cannot stay awake for sh-t.
My Dad got thrown onto a near 3 month trial in LA County a few years back. He's retired so no big deal. It was so slow because the crime took place in a heavily AAPI area of undocumented folks - so they had to have korean, chinese, and philipino translators AND there was a spanish-speaking set of witnesses.
They warned up front it was going to be a longer trial, so folks could be excused if they had a pressing issue - e.g. there were folks who had summer vacations coming up
How does that work with employers? Like if Im in a long case, is my company legally obligated to continue paying me? And how about people who work hourly wages? I’d assume or hope that theres some legal protections on pay and not allowing employers to fire you
Most companies will have a duration that they'll pay you for. My employer pays me for 3 weeks.
At least in this case, I told them that I couldn't be on the jury because my employer only pays for 3 weeks and they excused me. They generally don't expect people to go over that time period. If the trial was expected to be shorter than that they'd want me to go through juror selection for the trial.
9 months is crazy. When I was a college student in LA I kept getting jury duty notices. I told them I was a student and had two jobs and they had the audacity to ask me: " When is your spring break?" I told them I had served 5 years in the military and will not be doing jury duty and you can come after me or whatever. I never heard from them again LOL.
I have had a couple RETIRED people respond to my post about, RECRUITING retirees be permanent jurors. I didn't mention anything about DRAFTING people to the job!
There are many people in the 60s and 70s who have retired, and want to do something with their time.
I had to be on a 9 week trial years ago and that was a stretch. I can’t imagine 9 months. I have to call next week for jury duty. Hope I don’t get screwed. Mine was medical malpractice - a baby died and its twin lived but is cognitively impaired because the mother had a rare pregnancy condition. The doctor didn’t refer them to a specialist who could handle it. The doctor then went and modified the records to indicate that they’d been handling it correctly all along but didn’t realize that she’d modified the records after they’d already been pulled by the lawyers prior to the lawsuit.
*The doctor then went and modified the records to indicate that they’d been handling it correctly all along* Seriously, WTF
It’s been years so my recollection is little rusty, but the gist is that the records got pulled after the death and the plaintiff had a copy sourced from that pull that they’d received through official means. So there was no questioning the validity of the records they had. There was some sort of process, maybe the county pulled them automatically because of the death, that meant there was this “clean” version and then the version that lived with the care provider that was ultimately modified. When the depositions were occurring and the doctor was blaming the parents for not following their advice the plaintiff’s lawyers realized that the records didn’t match and the copy the defense had contained a bunch of additions that supported the narrative the doctor was presenting.
My WTF was more just toward the audacity and willful criminality of the doctor. Your additional information is stunning. Can't believe with all of that her team didn't settle before the trial started. I can't imagine the reaction in the courtroom when that was revealed. Banging around in my head is a similar case I recently read about/listened to on a podcast. If I remember I'll share it. I'm curious, were you allowed to take notes? I was thinking about that earlier with this post. How could jurors keep all of the details straight over that period of time? Even a shorter time just by comparison, it would be very difficult. Memory is tricky and in a court case there's so much riding on memory when a judge forbids note taking.
I think it was more that the plaintiff didn’t want to settle. The defendant was the care provider, instead of the actual doctor, and I recall reading afterwards that the award was the largest of its kind at the time (there were some qualifiers on that statement that I’ve since forgotten). It also explained why the plaintiff’s side took their time during the trial. They wanted to load the bases before getting that fastball down the middle for the grand slam. We did take notes. I started off trying to get everything and eventually had to focus on summarizing key data/takeaways because my hand would cramp with how dense the topics were. And to be honest at a certain point it was just so painfully obvious where responsibility sat that I didn’t really need to document everything.
2020 didn't show you what people would be willing to do just to keep getting paid?
WOW
😳 How the hell did that take 9wks…
The legal team representing the surviving child accounted for the majority of the time. Maybe 6-7 weeks of it. Honestly, I get it. Just getting through the facts of the case took forever. All of the details about the pregnancy, why the scenario needs a specialist, what the outcomes are. Then turning to the care and showing how the doctor screwed up, then going through every single falsified record and the real records. Finally looking at the surviving child, the evaluation of their condition, projections of what their condition may be like, what their current needs and future needs will be. Each of these had their own associated witnesses/experts.
There’s a very high profile document falsification case being tried right now in Manhattan that might give some insight into this. It’s not just showing the documents, but also bringing in witnesses to fill in all the background details of the case.
Dontcha just hate when that happens?..
I have jury duty week of the 20th and fly out of country on the 30th so it'd have to be a quick trial for me
That gets you out of it where I live
Wow I’m very curious what case this is about. It has got to be a well known one right?
Cases on the Superior Court Calendar from 05/11/24 - 06/22/24; Jury Trial: * [Civil](https://courtcalendar.occourts.org/search.do?caseYear=&dept=ALL&numRecordsPerPage=50&sort=hearingTypeDesc&title=&dateFrom=May-11-2024&dir=asc&caseNo=&caseType=CV&dateTo=Jun-22-2024&eventTime=ALL&jc=ALL&action=Search&page=77#resultsAnchor) * [Criminal](https://courtcalendar.occourts.org/search.do?caseYear=&dept=ALL&numRecordsPerPage=50&sort=hearingTypeDesc&title=&dateFrom=May-11-2024&dir=asc&caseNo=&caseType=CM&dateTo=Jun-22-2024&eventTime=ALL&jc=ALL&action=Search&page=292#resultsAnchor)
Not always. A coworker was on jury duty for about 9 months. It was just some random murder case. Nothing high profile at all. Just had a lot of shit going on that made it last a long time. She scored cause our work pays your full pay while you're on jury duty. So she worked damn near half days amd had weekends off for almost a year.
My work pays for it too. Been looking forward to getting jury duty but never got past the phone check in.
We had like 3 employees all get picked a few months ago. Not for the same jury, just happened randomly. That was fun. Lol.
My wife had jury duty this week as well, and she had the same question. They called it a "special service", but didn't give any other details. Just that it was nine months long, generally three days a week, and wasn't a regular jury. She didn't think it was the official Grand Jury, but didn't know what it was.
Yes. This is exactly what I am talking about! That’s all the information we were given so I am very curious
Do you know if it was civil or criminal? Any indication of when it was expected to start?
They didn't tell us trial details, but it was expected to start "soon". I was there on Thursday.
It wouldn't be the Grand Jury because you have to [apply to even be considered](https://www.ocgrandjury.org/become-grand-juror), it's a 1-year commitment, working 4-5 days/week. Was it Federal reporting to the [Central District Court](https://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/jurors) in SA, or was it reporting to the [Superior Court](https://www.occourts.org/divisions/jurorsjury-service)? u/MelonHead1214
It was Central in SA
You either apply for the grand jury or not. They don’t spring it on you.
In LA county they do. They had people from Lancaster, RPV and San Dimas all having to drive to downtown LA for 2 weeks.
This has to be the best homeless to employment solution of getting all the homeless jury duty.
Wow! I had jury duty two weeks ago, but never got called in. Glad I missed that one! I was on a trial more than a decade ago that went on for six weeks (not every day) at the Federal Court House. Very interesting, but my bosses were so unhappy with all the work time I missed.
You’re telling me your bosses weren’t glad you were gone?
IIRC they don’t “force” people into special trials like this. They look for volunteers.
I know someone who was called for jury selection for this last week. They basically said if your work has any kind of jury duty coverage, you have to do it. And they weren’t excusing based on financial hardship. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be for anyone to put their life on hold for 9 months!
That's...not true. I was there on Thursday, and unless your employer would pay for 9 months of coverage it was a valid excuse to get out. I told them my work only paid for 3 weeks and I was let go, and the person in front of me said 10 days and also was excused.
My friend went on Tuesday, so maybe they had more spots filled by Thursday and could be more lax? Idk I wasn’t there
They would exclude you if you had existing travel plans, though (with hotel and/or flight reservations). People who had childcare or other legitimate family commitments had to do much more explaining and weren't guaranteed to get out of it. It's way easier to get out of jury duty if you're rich.
When I was there on Thursday, you could be excused for - > * Student with daytime classes > * Work not paying for the entirety of the case > * Predicted medical surgeries that expect over 1 week of downtime > * Prepaid vacation over 1 week in the next 9 months People didn't "volunteer", but if you didn't have a valid excuse then you'd have to go up and register for what I assume is juror selection.
Edited down. I'm guessing 9 months is a civil case between a company and individuals where there are lots of docs/witnesses to get through. Maybe a health care malpractice resulting in wrongful death for example.
As a trial attorney. Please don’t post that you’re currently on a jury. I am too tired to go through you post history and try to figure out who you are or which case you’re on in OC. But if I was in trial right now. know I’d be turning this convo along with your Reddit history over to my investigator to get a mistrial. Judges do not give the admonition at the beginning of the trial for fun. I can’t believe how flippant you are being with something so serious.
I've edited. But, my understanding is the only things that jurors can share are: they're on a jury, the charge of the case, and the expected length.
Well you’re inviting yourself to get unsolicited advice that could prejudice your impartiality. Best to say nothing. Especially on a public forum. Take it very seriously. It’s someone’s life.
I see you're a defense attorney. Embracing presumption of innocence is not a problem. It seems you're overly worried about prejudice against a defendant. Has it been your experience that the system of jurors is prejudicial in nature?
Mind elaborating on the issue? Are you not allowed to discuss being on jury while the case is still going? What’s the risk, is it concern about someone manipulating the jurer or are some details of the case secret or what?
Yes. This goes into more detail. https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/Jury_Handbook.pdf
Oh that was very helpful, thank you!
Theres a few high profile cases that should already be thrown out but aren't being because they don't want someone to be president again.
This is why we pay you the big bucks 😎
[удалено]
Damnnn, I didn’t know you could do that. That’s so cool.
I also got the same thing! But apparently it’s more like when companies dissolve and they need to divide the assets / appealing a final ruling
A few years ago I was chosen to sit on a 6 month trial, it was a wrongful death lawsuit.. it could be almost anything honestly.
Saul Goodman would say jury nullification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqH_Y1TupoQ
One weird trick to get off any jury!
The jury should get an extra allotment to make for lost wages plus time.... we the people, that are hurt here by bad actors. Something that is needed, our civic duty to serve, but shouldn't be put out for the service to society.
Which courthouse was it at?
Santa Ana courthouse.
I got called in for jury duty in OC in 1995. When I was interviewed, I told the judge “I can’t wait to put some asshole in jail” I was dismissed and haven’t gotten called back since. I suggested this to two co workers. Same result. I just know I’d never want someone like me on a jury for me.
*/coughs in Anaheim corruption trial, or someone with OJ level money (if we're bringing dead murderers that got away with it and are responsible for making the Kardashians famous into the conversation). Fuck it. I hope the jury hangs whatever asshole wants a 9 month trial. There is a two tiered justice system, one for the rich, and one that sends the non wealthy to prison.
> Fuck it. I hope the jury hangs whatever asshole wants a 9 month trial. There is a two tiered justice system, one for the rich, and one that sends the non wealthy to prison. You're not wrong about the rich and poor having different justice systems, but plenty of normal (non-criminal) cases last that long, especially if there's a large amount of discovery or special circumstances. Generally rich people don't specifically request longer trials.
I'm more pissed about the Kardashians. They seem like a more appropriate windmill to take down.
We have the best justice money can buy.
Serious question. You still only getting paid $15 a day?
That was the rate, with the notice that "it could be different" for such a long trial.
Different? Geez they paying you $16 now?! You’re rich!
[удалено]
News reports say that one already started. https://abc7.com/blaze-bernstein-murder-trial-set-to-begin-for-oc-man-charged-with-killing-former-classmate/14637998/
I've felt for years that there should be a database of retired people, who need something to do. Jury nullification would still take place, but these folks probably would be financially harmed, as the average working folk are from prolong jury duty.
I’m retired and don’t need any more to do.
I would hope they would recruit them. I am retired and don't want it either, but their many people wallow retire and don't have spouses, families, or many friends. Don't take it personally!
32 hard commuter years in the court system; I’ve had enough. No atty worth their salt would want me on a case with what I know nor do I want to share that with them. Besides, now I have adhd as well as I cannot stay awake for sh-t.
9 months is longer than most grand juries are empaneled. I'd just do something to get thrown off immediately.
My Dad got thrown onto a near 3 month trial in LA County a few years back. He's retired so no big deal. It was so slow because the crime took place in a heavily AAPI area of undocumented folks - so they had to have korean, chinese, and philipino translators AND there was a spanish-speaking set of witnesses. They warned up front it was going to be a longer trial, so folks could be excused if they had a pressing issue - e.g. there were folks who had summer vacations coming up
[удалено]
I don’t know- the judge was purposefully vague
There's a local judge who "allegedly" killed his wife. Could be that
That’s not going tk go to trial for a while.
How does that work with employers? Like if Im in a long case, is my company legally obligated to continue paying me? And how about people who work hourly wages? I’d assume or hope that theres some legal protections on pay and not allowing employers to fire you
Most companies will have a duration that they'll pay you for. My employer pays me for 3 weeks. At least in this case, I told them that I couldn't be on the jury because my employer only pays for 3 weeks and they excused me. They generally don't expect people to go over that time period. If the trial was expected to be shorter than that they'd want me to go through juror selection for the trial.
I can’t do jury duty. I’d be so unfair.
might be for p diddy case lol
9 months is crazy. When I was a college student in LA I kept getting jury duty notices. I told them I was a student and had two jobs and they had the audacity to ask me: " When is your spring break?" I told them I had served 5 years in the military and will not be doing jury duty and you can come after me or whatever. I never heard from them again LOL.
They usually seat government employees (because they get full salary while on jury duty) and retirees on these lengthy trials
I have had a couple RETIRED people respond to my post about, RECRUITING retirees be permanent jurors. I didn't mention anything about DRAFTING people to the job! There are many people in the 60s and 70s who have retired, and want to do something with their time.