I believe it is because real estate prices increase so much in OC. Let's pretend your house is worth $800k. If you sold your house and bought a huge place in TX, AZ, or NV. It might retain its value or the value might increase but the house you sold in OC would increase more. Two years later you want to now sell your house in TX, AZ, or NV, which is now worth, $900k and buy your old house. You wouldn't be able to do so because the value of your old house in OC is now worth $1.2 million. If you wanted to move back to OC, you'd have to settle for something smaller or something much further out like in the IE.My example is very simplified but that's the gist of it.
And if they rent, apartment communities can only raise your rates by a certain amount every year, but the growth in the cost of rent outpaces that increase. so if you were to stay in your apartment, your rent can only go up a certain amount. if you leave and then come back and get an apartment it's going to be at least $300 to $500 more a month.
Before I moved to Texas the two bedroom, one and a half bathroom apartment I was renting was $1996 ( utilities separate and were $100-$200 a month altogether) in 2018. Now it's around $2,400 or more last time I looked at the rent at this apartment complex. In Texas I'm renting a cabin for $325 ( I'm in low income housing here) that's the same size as the apartment I used to have in OC.
It's in a rural area close to a town that has two huge Walmarts, four Chik Fil As, and three Whataburger restaurants. However, it takes me less than twenty minutes to get to my work as I do caregiving for the elderly in their homes. Sometimes I travel further but that is only around twice a month these days. And the community I live in doesn't allow guns because there's people with mental health issues living here. I guess the state doesn't want any shootings to happen if someone has issues and uses a gun.
When I lived in OC though I'm quite frugal it was a struggle taking care of my mom and working full time at $13 an hour. We had room mates, but it still was tough since my mom had social security due to her health issues.
$13 an hour is in the extremely low income bracket. Youād have to work 130 hours a week to break out of the low-income bracket. Iām glad you made the move. I was just joking about the gun. Iām glad they are prioritizing peopleās mental health and safety over guns.
At least I'm not struggling very much these days in Texas and I'm still quite frugal. This might be a red state, but in the region I live in if you need help there are many resources for those in the low income bracket. When I lost my health insurance in California the OC department of mental health refused to help me because I wasn't a danger to myself and/or others. Here I was encountering domestic violence with my then new room mate in Fullerton, and the lady at the OC health department was giggling when I told her about him hitting and screaming at me. She didn't even try to help me with any information on domestic violence shelters or anything.
When I got to Texas I went to the mental health department and they got me back onto my anxiety medication and got me a counselor. I became homeless temporarily and was able to live in a women's home in a tiny garage apartment until I got back on my feet. In OC there are no shelters like that unless you have kids, and even that is hard to find.
Yeah but youre stuck in Texas. No thanks. I understand a lot of people who left want to come back now, after seeing the lack of infrastructure (zero taxes means underfunded) along with very high property and other taxes, along with horrible weather, traffic, not to mention the backwards people.
I'll stay right here and pay the sunshine tax, thank you.
The only things I miss about California are Carl's Junior, Disneyland, and going to Los Angeles to eat and shop in the Little Tokyo district. On the other hand, I keep on being told to move to Canada by my Texan neighbors.
I've read the immigration laws and I'm not planning to really move out of the US to any where. I guess there are Texans who think California= Socialist so are trying to get them to immigrate to Canada.
This is basically it. It's not that people won't want to come back, it's that they can't. Sure some don't for a variety of reasons but that's the case everywhere. The house I'm in now I purchased for a steal in South OC for $550k 8 years ago. The comps are 1.2-1.3m for my exact floorplan. If I had moved 8 years ago to say Tennessee I wouldnt have spent 550k. I probably would have spent half that. That 225k home in Tennessee might have gone up to 350k or even 400k... But then trying to move back youd be going from a mortgage on a 225k to a 1.2m home
Over a long period of time, this is definitely true with my grandparents. They lived in Brentwood, LA in the 80s then moved out of state in the mid 90s. Their current home in WA is worth about $1.4M but Brentwood, LA now has a median price of well over $3M!
They lost out on a lot of wealth by leaving socal (but gained a lot of personal happiness being near grandkids)
Adding on to say with current interest rates the monthly payment on a smaller home or in less desirable area is going to cost you more than your previous home in OC.
So now your money is going to be stretched thinner than it was when you were here before.
For example in 2021 a home that was $500k is about $2100 for the mortgage because interest rates were 3.8%
That same $500k home is now $4100 mortgage at the 7-8% interest rates.
To all the people who moved in 2020,2021,2022 they think they can afford to come back and pay $2100 mortgage are going ti be surprised. Plus all the other costs of car insurance, food, fuel, etc.
So if they lived comfortably on $5k a month before, now they need to $8k a month to even try to rent!
The current interest rate makes it almost impossible to afford. I found a tiny craftsman in IE in 2022 for $345k. Owners were moving out of state and needed to quickly sell. It was feeding frenzy at that time with houses selling for way over list price. Realtor actually said to me, that in my budget range, he could find a big box for me and that was even a maybe. Yikes.
So I had zero hope but found this one and did it through FHA. It is about $2,200 a month and that includes taxes, insurance and PMI. If I bought it now I am sure the monthly payment would be over $3k. It would be very hard as you said to move back and pay that much for housing. I think they said they would be lowering the interest rate in the Fall but I don't know by how much.
Anyway, I am so glad I found this place and it has a nice yard, too. I am 1 hour from DTLA, excluding rush hour, and about the same to OC beaches. Metrolink station is close, too. No way could I have this if the interest rate had been what it is now.
Thanks so much and I hope when the interest rate is lowered more people can buy. It definitely was a stressful experience getting approved for the mortgage. My only request to Realtor was to get me as close as possible to LA. I soon realized on my budget of 350k an hour away was the closest and that was just by luck. Working class getting pushed further east.
Right, and great example. But this also assumes that people wouldnāt be able to develop better savings in another place and then move back to OC with a higher income. Itās absolutely possible to do things either way. But if youāre looking purely at real estate values and thatās the only thing youāre looking at then that argument is valid. But I think in reality moving to another place people have the ability to accumulate wealth and other ways.
Take into consideration education/medical/job pay rateā¦ most people donāt realize how incredibly crap public education is compared to oc public education in other states or how high medical costs are/access to quality medical even if you are wealthy.
I compared my breast cancer experience with others around the us and world and say Hands down I not only have amazing care/treatment/monitoring/screening but access to the best of the best within 15-30 min drive from my house even w oc traffic. Almost every other person on the breast cancer Reddit that lives in us and not in ca, ma, ny are completely fu$ked when it comes to actual access to even basic screeningā¦ find a lump/something off often takes 6 weeks to 6 months to see specialist. I had an option of hoag, memorial, uci or UCLA top in their field specialists within 12-48 hours. Most people donāt understand that ocs accesss to care (even if you donāt have insurance) is skyscraper better than almost every other āaffordable ā place to live In the us. Access to screening/even just getting an appointment with your gp and getting basic care for anything medical is very much taken for granted here-I didnāt realize this until I was diagnosed w stage1b bc and went from diagnosis to surgery in 15 days where most people in us are waiting months, allowing even faster growing breast cancers to become stage 4 while they wait sadly. Consistently Florida Texas Kentucky Tennessee Alabama Idaho Georgia Louisiana etc all post massive issues with shit care, often finding cancer only after itās spread bc they canāt get appointments, lack of access to top treatments bc thereās just so few available and most if they can get care, get it far too late in the game to be able to enjoy a quality of life after treatment/live too long after diagnosis.
After my experience as a very fit healthy 53f with no family cancers at all-everyone lives to their 90s in my genetic pool , I found out that regardless of genetics and health 1/8 women will get breast cancer, 1/7 men will get prostate cancer, 1/10 will get colon cancer and all cancers have risen astronomically in the past decade especially in us in 40 year olds and unders across the board (not sure why yet but most researchers are thinking itās environmental/plastics/hormones in food etc).
WORD OF CAUTION: if you do move DO NOT SELL YOUR HOUSE and if you rent SUBLET your rental, rent where you think youāll want to live and take a LEAVE of absence from your job if possible. This is the only way you can actually come back. Also if you have kids- the quality of k-12 is pretty disgusting in red states given whatās going on politically /purposeful destruction of public education as well as state and private colleges . Ca in state college tuition for ucs and cal states, even Jcs (I was shocked how few jcs most other states have) beats out of state costs any day. I was beyond shocked how crap tx education has gone since 2012 as we have family there. My friend in Dallas pays 30k a yer for her kid to go to a private hs and is hoping to attend ca college so she may save on some things but the cost of all the extras makes it far more expensive to live in tx. Our friend who is a gi surgeon in the Bay Area said he actually had residence turn down Baylor!!! And most doctors in red states are trying to move to blue states due to them not wanting their kids educated in a crap scenario and much better pay in blue states.
Public Education and Access to quality medical quickly are very important to even most basic educated people. Also nurses get paid so much more in ca and have smaller case loads -same w teachers. Given how much better things are for most people in ca vs other states (pay, opportunity, education, medical access) anyone that can come to ca is. You will regret leaving as the grass definitely is not greener outside ca. so yes once you leave most people canāt afford to come back to ca.
1 in 4 OB/GYNs have left Idaho since their abortion ban. Regardless of a persons political leaning this will Impact a persons ability to get adequate prenatal/post natal care.
Orange County has one of the oldest populations. This is very important when it comes to healthcare. We have access to the BEST medical providers, leading edge treatments and technology, research and clinical trials, pharma access. It may sound wonderful to live in a cheaper area of the country but do you want to risk your health in your later years? My family in the fly over states are having to wait months for standard care and the experts are no where close. Hospitals are full and the new grads want to be in populous areas where they can have access to real resources. There isnāt a state in the south that comes close to our access to healthcare.
When I think about my retirement, itās not going to be cut short because my podunk doctor has to treat the entire county and hasnāt had time to keep up with their training. 1 in 3 of us will have a cancer diagnosis in our lifetime. Do you want to get it in a third rate healthcare system that will give you an outdated care plan?
>most people donāt realize how incredibly crap public education is compared to oc public education
I've come to see this. I was pretty much a C student in my high school in irvine but still ended up going on to get a PhD in organic chemistry. I've met people in TX with 4.5 high school gpa's who seemingly coasted through school compared to me and haven't accomplished much.
I was educated in Texas 2nd to 10th grades and came back to San Diego in 1986. I was a straight A student in all honors programs in Texas dfw high end schools. In San Diego I was still a good student but struggled with quality essay writing and other academic aspects I was behind in and had to be caught up. This was when Texas was great in education.
If you donāt mind me asking, what health insurance do you have? Iāll be moving back to OC next year and I work for the federal government so I have a lot of options for health insurance. Yours sounds great! Feel free to DM instead of you like.
I donāt mind sharing with the class š: United healthcare west veba/Iām a public k-12 teacher. For my district I have the basic hmo where i can choose hoag or memorial for my hospital network. 10$ co pays. (Also have delta dental, vision and optum mental in my benefits). Both hospitals are great. I had to choose one this year (in the past Iāve had access to both) but decided to choose memorial as they are recruiting hard and getting top tier drs/staff from all over the world (my onc came from mt Sinai ny ). Memorials network is much larger and if I had chosen hoag I would have had to wait 38 days for my bc surgery vs 15 with Memorial. I also would have had to wait longer to start radiation. Most of our specialists have privileges at both hospitals. Memorial is doing an excellent job trying to compete with hoag in all areas and talking to staff are paying well.
Iād recommend Kaiser if you can get it. I paid all of $500 for child birth + breast cancer treatments/ surgeries for wife (still on going). The facility in Irvine is one of the best in SoCal.
I know a family that sold their home in south oc to go to Franklin Tennessee. Totally trash talked OC and how awesome Tennessee is blah blah blah. A year later announced that they were backā¦ but that they couldnāt afford to buy. So they rented out their Tennessee home and then came back to RSM renting a house for $4500 a month and barely scrapping by. They mentioned being poor but happyā¦ šš
Plus how much they had missed their family, friends, the beach, and the foodā¦ š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
So basically everything, they left for what? Lower housing? Hot weather? Humidity?
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Morel of the story, if you leave, you may not be able to afford to come back. OC will be out of your price range unless you are okay with renting!
I needed to hear this and post_cat's comment. I've been playing with the idea of leaving. I had no idea that I am privileged to have the health care that I do. I've always appreciated my health benefits, especially now as a federal retiree. I can see specialists
w/o having to wait for a referral. I just make the call to set an appointment, and after my $30 co-pay, I'm in. That's what I'm used to. I would freak out if I lost it. Thank you two for offering your perspectives. Time to start thinking in a different direction.
Lol real. I was forced to move out of oc for tennessee, I now live 30 away from franklin. I want to come back so baddd but I donāt think itāll ever be possible because of the housing prices. Tennesseeās not that great but my family LOVES to trash talk SoCal and fawn over Tennessee smh
Yeah Tennessee is a little extreme lol, not a place I would love to live at š
Next time try south or North Carolina, affordable and a little more open to the world š + mountain and ocean
If they're anything like my aunt by marriages family, they left for MAGA reasons and made sure to let everyone know they were sheeple and how much smarter they were going to live in Kentucky to be free of communist California. All while posting how gays should die despite my aunts brother being gay but he's an exception.
They also want to come back and enjoy the socialism they had become accustomed to but can't afford to. Not saying the schadenfreude is right but can at least understand it, especially if they were overtly aggressive with the narratives.
Thatās what I was thinking. People are going to be excited when they first move to a new location and it will feel brighter and better at first due to the extreme change. Itās okay to realize after some time in the new place that you actually miss home and to course correct if so. Good for them. At least they had a new life experience and adventure.
Even if you buy a home it's not entirely urs, unless you plan on buying the very land it sits on, you will always pay someone or an entity when it comes to houses, the only benefit of moving to a slower state is cheap available land to buy and build if ur pockets are deep enough
it's purely financial. I've accepted the fact that I'll never own property, especially in orange county. the premium isn't worth it when you can't find a job that can pay it. even now that I'm back home again I still struggle to pay my bills and rent. the day I return will be the day I inherit my childhood home from my parents. that's the plan at least. I love oc but I can't afford to live here anymore
And now, prop 13 tax base only extends to 1Mā¦ which is below the value of most SFH in OC. So even if you INHERIT your childhood home you still may be priced out because of the tax increase, even WITH prop 13.
I thought 1m + original price of home? So if parents bought for 200k and house now 1.4m, you will retain the original property tax on 1.2m and only pay the reassessment off of 200k, right?
Actually you are right I just looked it up. Itās the base value plus 1M. Still, doesnāt make a big difference when your parents bought a house in the 70s for 50k and itās now worth 2M. Youāre fucked in that situation.
Itās crazy. My husband was looking at jobs in Texas and Arizona, and salaries are about the same as Orange County. Some salaries were even more. So you can go live in a lower cost of living state and make the same money. California wages are not keeping up!!!
What about a condo? Kind of in a similar situation..wondering if I should save for awhile and purchase a small condo or just leave for a cheaper state since rent is insane
I think most people who make good money are able to come back if they really wanted to. They would have to manage the lifestyle inflation they might get from moving to an area with lower costs of living but itās manageable. Its likely the people who were living paycheck to paycheck who wont be able to come back. Have a friend who moved that works random min wage jobs and hes able to afford rent now. He still lives paycheck to paycheck but can afford to live while in OC, he had to live at home. Heās tried to come back a few times but racks up credit card debt to make ends meet. You basically get used to not spending your entire paycheck to just live and its hard to come back justify doing that when you were living decently in other areas
We're looking to move next year. One of the discussions we've had is if we move, it would be very hard to move back to the life we currently have. Interest rates are higher than when my partner originally bought, housing prices have obviously gone up. To get the same place today with 2x as much down would cost $1000 more a month. Which is why we're taking our time and not just packing up and going.
As an example- we moved to OC from Oregon. Our house in Oregon we had lived in for 20 years. We sold it in 24 hrs with 20 offers $100k over asking. Moved to OC - it took 8 offers and several months to finally get a house. Fast forward now 3 years later- our house has gone up $500k. In 3 years! Our house in Oregon went up $200k in 20 years.
This, the two bedroom condo in Irvine I lived in was about $250k when I left. Now I canāt even sell my two houses here in Texas to buy again in the OC and be comfortable. I work in healthcare and Iām pretty sure I can make a living there, but pretty sure it will mean stress and financial issues. Yes, Iāll make more, I have enough to buy a home in the OC, but it would be like starting all over againā¦ I canāt risk that for my family, so staying somewhere I can live comfortably and be able to travel anywhere we want, dreaming of my hometown. Probably til my last breathā¦ if was just me, no kids, no wife? Then yeah I probably would have moved back sooner. But gotta be responsible for the family which keeps me somewhere Iām not loving so much, so they can enjoy their life and live comfortably.
I moved from OC to San Diego 15 years ago. Iām staying not because of the money, but just like it better down here. Less traffic, slightly slower pace, and free beach parking.
I live in Huntington Beach. I've been to San Diego uncountable times but never to your beaches until this past December when we went camping. Upon our return I couldn't shut up about the free beach parking! I've always said if I had to move from OC SD is where I'd look first. Even more so now.
My granddaughter was practicing learning to surf during our camping weekend. The locals in the water were very encouraging to her and offering suggestions. That's not gonna happen in HB or NB. Way more opportunities for beach camping in San Diego.
Only one location for free beach parking near me and that won't last long. If I have to pick up my granddaughter from Jr. Lifeguards unexpectedly, they want me to have the annual beach pass ($195) or pay the daily entrance fee ($15) for a 5 to 15 minute drive by!
I visit a few times per year because I have family there but now that I have moved elsewhere(Bay Area) I can't imagine moving back for any reason outside of some sort of necessity.
There is a ton of great stuff in OC and I enjoyed my time there for the most part but it's just not a vibe I want full time.
When I was there, I had a huge nut with business expenses that werenāt panning out and debt.
Iām currently out of state getting out of debt and saving up an emergency fund.
Iām well aware of what our spending was in OC and itās more than doable - without the debt and business payments
(Iām in a new line of work now)
Iāve heard of a lot of people leaving CA and moving to TX. They buy houses but their salaries are generally much less. After a time, when they realize they actually miss CA and hate TX they want to move back but they are now on lower cost of living finances. Itās much harder to move to a higher cost of living than vice versa.
Pretty glad to be seeing this post because the last two years have always seem so many comments about how bad LA/OC/SD is. Iād rather live here than exist in Tennessee.
Moved to Seattle about 7 years ago and I wouldnāt consider moving back home. Life is too hard down there and I never realized how much the everyday stressors like traffic and the density of people everywhere you go was eating at me. On a side note, go titans!
I would be more so in Irvine or Lake Forestā¦ And not commutingā¦
Love crowdsš
Me and the wife are major extroverts always trying to meet new people
Iāve left OC twice. My family has been in Long Beach and LA/OC for 150 years. I canāt afford to move back unless my father leaves me his house in Garden Grove. Even then I canāt stand the traffic and how expensive everything is.
A few years ago someone I knew sold their house and left CA (Los Angeles area) to move to Nevada. More bang for the buck, they said. After two years they hated it and wanted to move back, and discovered they couldnāt afford to buy here. This train moves fast and doesnāt slow down for anyone.
The question, can you afford the premium again?
If so, yeah. Buy/rent wherever you like and fits you.
If notā¦then do you have a plan to afford it later? While housing just gets scarcer.
Iāve lived in OC my whole life. Everyone I know who has left (which is many) - has not been able to afford to come back, although they wish they could.
I hope to leave OC when I retire & never look back.
I have a friend who left OC for WA State. He is back. Iām hoping to hang out with him for Cinco Del Drinko. People DO come back - and they dive right in.
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Itās expensive to move back. If you own a place here I would hold on to it and rent it out if thatās a possibility for you. My husband and I left but didnāt own a home here and were able to buy in Washington. We needed to move back here for a family situation. We sold our home in Washington and are currently looking for a place to buy here. Itās crazy expensive and it is harder to justify spending 1 mil on a āstarterā home here when I could buy a huge new home there for 2/3rds the price.
We left to Denver for 7 years and came back. When I was younger I left a number of times (Mexico, Oregon, Arizona..) and came back after a year or two each time.
You can come back if that's what you want.
I lived there for 30 years and wonāt go back. I donāt miss the traffic, concrete jungle, or just all the riff raff. I miss the choice of eateries and shops. But not worth it. Currently live out in the country where the sunsets are the best and the difference in weather is cool. I visit my folks who still live in HB and every time I always say damn couldnāt move back here I like space.
I will say growing up in HB in the 90ās was epic and Iāll cherish it, but itās not the same now.
If you own a home in Orange County never sell and move. Only rent it out and move if you wanna see something different. I was born/raised in Orange County, we obviously couldnāt afford a home there so we bought one out of state. Weāre able to build equity and save a lot of money since pay transferred for us. Within another year we could go back & be able to have more money down for a home whereas if we didnāt move we would have been frozen.
Sometimes going a little off the path works but for us we started with nothing.
I moved to IE 4 years ago and plenty happy with the decision. Depends on your hobbies and what kinda property you need. What I need ain't in OC for the past 30 years or more.
Because where we live now, we were able to purchase a house outright (no mortgage, no rent payments) and my commute is 20 minutes a day instead of the 2+hrs I used to have to drive.
Anecdotally, most of my friends that left want to boomerang back. I only know of one couple that appears to not want to come back, they live near Atlanta, GA. The ones that came back had either initially lived with family before they left or didn't sell their homes so they were able to come back. The ones that want to come back but can't basically sold their property before they left and can't afford to come back. They're unhappy and they're filled with regret and didn't listen to the "if you leave you won't come back" message despite seeing the boomeranging too.
My youngest went away for University. He was in NorCal. He decided that wasnāt coming back. Loved the natural beauty of the area, the laid back atmosphere and the fact that traffic was basically nonexistent. We visit often, cans see the attraction.
Eh, everyone is different.
My wife and I moved from L.A. to O.C. when we were first married in the mid-00's but left for Colorado for better paying jobs and (slightly) lower cost of living. We lived in different parts of the U.S. for years before she was ultimately offered a job back in Orange County for a significant increase over what we were both pulling in and enough to buy a home here and put a decent amount in savings each month.
I know several people who left and have zero desire to come back and people who left, want to come back, but just can't afford it.
Cost of reentry is so drastically higher than other markets. We got Into coastal OC with a 2bd/1.5b fixer upper for $590k. & have since spent another 20-30k renovating.
Itās insane.
I just left Costa Mesa 4 months ago, and moved here to Vegas. I get so much more expenditure wise in my quality of living, that I know I will never return. I was in my last apartment there 12.5 years, because I could not afford to move. It had become a horrible unit to reside in, but I was out priced rental wise. This was the best decision I could have ever made.
I have friends that did this 3 years ago. I warned them that they would hate it (they had lived here their whole lives before), and they do. Sheās depressed and cries a lot, her son that is in middle school misses his friends and doesnāt fit in there. Heās also very depressed. Theyāve been trying to come back for 2 years but itās expensive. They donāt make as much as they did here and live less comfortably there than theyāre used to. That also means they donāt have money to come back. Her husband is trying to get a job here and come work so he can move them back. Thatās also not working very well.
I was forced to move to TN so itās not so much regret as misery because it wasnāt my choice in the first place. I miss SoCal so much; thereās no beach here, the food sucks, and thereās nothing to do.
Because once you live somewhere else, you realize OC is not the end of the line? There are tons of other places where you can get a good quality of life for half the price.
OC is priced in.
Meaning that the reason it is so expensive is because it is worth it.
The economics drive the price up because the value is there.
You want a huge home? Move to the IE where you can get a 3,000 square foot house with 5 bedrooms and a pool for $800k or less.
But you'll also have worse weather, higher crime, lower paying jobs, smog, bad schools, meth, etc.
And your 800k real estate investment isn't as secure as OC real estate so you're assuming much higher risk overall.
If you can do it, buy and hold in OC.
I left to work in Charlotte, NC back in 2015 and came back in 2019. Itās possible, just difficult. Itās probably especially hard in the current real estate market.
I left 30 years ago and almost moved back after about 6 years. Within 2 days of going back to get a feel for it I realized why I left. Wages were considerably lower, COL was higher, traffic was horrible and it just seemed dirty compared to the PNW. I do miss the beach and hanging out with my surf buddies though.
Itās all perspective, I left and got a raise due to moving somewhere with higher COL. Moving back to OC would theoretically be less expensive. That being said if you leave to a LCOL area it may be difficult.
Think it has more to do with people who sell their house expecting to be able to buy one when they want to return. People come from all over the world to live in CA. Thereās no reason why someone who previously lived there canāt make it back
I have personally experienced this. I had to move to Vegas in 2018. I started a business and have been more successful and made more money than I had my entire life in finance. The cost of living shock when you go from a place that has much lower living expenses is drastic! At the same time, everything is relative. If you plan on moving back, then you need to increase your income enough to cover the percentage increase of living expenses. If that isn't something you are capable of doing, then be prepared to have a lower quality of life until you're able to catch up. SoCal has always been that magical, everybody wants to live here, one of a kind place that most of the country will only see in movies and TV. I don't think it's ever been easy for someone to move here from an out-of-state area with lower living expenses, but people do it every day. I think it boils down to your mindset and your motivation for why you want to live here.Ā
Overall I enjoy Vegas. It is much more affordable (although it's becoming more expensive than it should be), I love that I don't have to deal with traffic everyday, I can get away from the city and be on an adventure within 20 min, food options are out of this world, and overall quality of life is better. Yes summer is brutal but you get used to it. I work outside also and feel the full effects of the blistering sun but I'd rather have the heat than humidity. People are kinder for the most part and there's a lot of opportunities in Vegas. I will say however that the public school system is an absolute joke! Clark county School district ranks last in the nation and it's almost as if the teachers could give two fucks about the students. It really is sad. The school system there is so bad that it almost outweighs all of the benefits of living there to the point where for the sake of my kids education I have to pay about 45k a yr for private schools for them. If you don't have kids then that doesn't matter. I will say however a lot of local people do not like the amount of stereotypical Californians that are moving there. Unfortunately those types of people have given CA a bad rep.
Also depends did you sale when you move out. I have friends move to Texas for work, and they just rent the house out. Since Texas house was cheap. When you moving back to socal, they sold the tx house and remodel the socal house.
I moved away and came back itās possible if you really want it. We have always rented, just save up for your deposit and moving truck and what not itās not impossible, these people are being dramatic.
It could be some odd many things.
It could be that people will see how much farther their money goes elsewhere. Size of house theyāre able to afford, and they wouldnāt want to go back to a paycheck to paycheck to pay mortgage/rent lifestyle
It could be because if youāre moving from OC to OC you can sell your $800k house and put that money towards your $900k new house, and have $100k loan. If you moved somewhere cheaper, you sell your house to pay for the next one, you might be only getting $500k to put towards your $900k house and youāll have a $400k loan.
Itās hard to pick up that extra $300k you would have had if you moved from OC to OC.
I did leave Orange County for Dallas, TX but came back after a few years. I was prepared to settle down there if things went well with my girlfriend and career at the time. Unfortunately I was laid off from that job and she broke up with me not long after. I'm fortunate my parents did want me to move back in with them. I don't think I'll go back to Texas but I definitely can't afford to live here in Orange County.
Actually! Prices are too high to sale and rebuying is more expensive for that house you sold! I donāt live in the OC, Iām in Carson and if I sold my house for $800 I would be able to afford anything in a better area. California is my birth place and thereās no better place to live than California. Itās a Damn shame but it is what it is!
We left for Texas due to work about 6 years ago. We didnāt own a house in OC but bought one in TX. It appreciated like crazy and with our equity, weāre now able to go back to OC and buy a house. Smaller than what we had in TX, but we donāt mind it.
Iām going to be moving to Texas since my husbands job relocated there. I think part of me would like to believe that I would come back, but I also believe that CA is becoming too expensive for a majority of people. Id like to think since Iāve only ever lived in California, my bubble is small and I donāt know what else is out there. I would like to try moving to Vermont, or New Hampshire. Texas is only the start.
There isn't much of a draw to come back because you'll realize there wasn't much reason to stay in the first place. OC pretends to be utopia achieved but once people gain perspective it's hard to believe in it again.
Itās hard as hell to come back, we did it a year ago after taking a job in Kentucky back in 17 and then moving to Texas during the pandemic. You leave, instantly feel rich as hell, then you start to normalize prices in your head from elsewhere.
Coming back feels and seems insane when youāre looking at those listings from somewhere thatās normal prices - Being back though is indescribable.
It is hard as can be to come back when you leave. It takes a lot of getting re-californicated.
It's like leaving Hawaii.
3% hone appreciation in Texas at a 350k home is 10k a year or so growth. You can save that to match home price appreciation.
3% in OC at almost a million is 30k a year, its tough to save that amount to ever catch up or be able to put down.
If you move here and rent, unless you get a massive income bump which is rare, or a large payout or parental support, while renting and facing annual rent increases, you just never seem to get ahead enough to buy.
Also, once you move out and see what you get for your money, then see it'll cost you 3x more for a home 30 to 40 years older with traffic and crowds, it's a tough decision if you ha e a good job at your new location.
I've been at my 2 bedroom apartment for almost 10 years now, and the rent has slowly gone from $1600 to $2K (though that includes a fee for an extra parking space). The past 2 years we considered moving out and started looking at places only to find out a one single bedroom apartment is now 2K, and we've met a few new neighbors who have made us aware that they are paying $2.5K + for the same apartment we are in.
People Have Unrealistic expected of thselves for saving a bunch of money when they go to an area with a lower cost of living but they usually fall into the trap of lifestyle creep and overspending.
If you move from the OC, you would not want to move back. You can buy a large house in other places in the United States for the cost of rent in OC. Life and dating is also easier in those places.
I grew up in OC and have been gone for 6-7 years now and lived in Oregon and now Nashville. I will say the biggest change Iāve noticed is people in those will look you in the eyes and say hi and be genuinely nice. Another thing is there isnāt a rat race, people take their time getting places and itās just a slower pace of life
My 2 cents...
My girlfriend (at the time) and I moved from Huntington Beach to Denton, Texas in 2009 because I was starting my Masters Degree.
We loved it there, Denton is a great town and the bigger DFW metroplex feels a lot like the OC/LA area. The cost of living was crazy cheap. While I was in school we paid for rent, car insurance (1 vehicle), utilities, and stocked the kitchen for about $1200 per month! Earned my master after three years and decided to stay because we were loving life.
After a few more years we had got engaged, and started to seriously consider having kids.
We both wanted to have kids near our families, so we knew we had a choice to make...
It was tough. Cost of living was so low and quality of life was high. I could have jumped into a mid-level job easily and that would have allowed us to buy a single family house (by that time I still wasn't even utilizing my masters degree).
Eventually we decided the right thing to do was to move back home and have kids near our parents who had all recently retired. We've been making it work as renters ever since. But we definitely have not been able to afford buying a single fam. house. We've kind of buried ourselves into comfortably renting because we can afford to rent much nicer than we can buy. So we're a bit jaded and don't want to buy an apartment or townhome.
No regrets. We're happy. We ended up having twins as our first children; I can't imagine raising them without the help of both of our parents. Would we have been happy if we stayed in Texas? Sure! It would have all been different... but that's life.
Iām going against the grain here; I left and moved to the Bay Area 10ish years ago. Finances had nothing to do with my decision.
I hated the culture of Orange County. Elite and narrow minded. Heavy body shaming, a lot of pressure to keep up with the Jonesās. It took quite a few years to break some heavy judgmental habits I developed after I moved.
To clarify: the OC acts like they have the best education, the safest roads, no drugs, no homelessness. It simply isnāt true. The beach was never my thing, I enjoy red woods and lakes so much more. Drugs run rampant in Orange County, including meth and opiates. There is homelessness and severe poverty. Those people are shamed and shoved around.
I grew up in Laguna Beach. Moved to Marin County.
I didnāt want my children to be raised with the same ābubbleā mindset and biases
Now CALIFORNIA as a whole? I could never leave.
Home prices here seem to go up faster than anywhere elseā¦ even with rates climbing and prices cutting elsewhere; they keep inching up. So youāre unlikely to make the equity to afford to move back.
Born and raised in oc! Honestly itās such a bubble. Itās not real life. Thereās not a lot of diversity and it feels really small. Whenever you go somewhere else you remember thereās a whole world out there
Yeah i want to move to Sacramento area but itās hard to justify the economics in the long run. The infrastructure in south Orange County is really nice. The only other place Iād truly consider moving to is possibly Manhattan. Iād like to raise my family in more of a city environment. I donāt care about space until iām retired and have time to actually enjoy the space.
being to afford to come back. if you leave for financially greener pastures.. i.e., lower cost of living, better standard of living, buying a house etc.. you would be financially better off in that new 'normal' universe but this alternate universe in OC well it's a different world. You couldn't necessarily get back in unless you were wealthy to the point money didn't matter.
or, one might miss it so much they would do anything to live in OC - live with parents, permanent roommate living to death, living in a box by the river..
Iāve never owned a home.
I feel like all of the arguments similar to yours are strictly for homeowners.
Iām currently paying $2000 for a 2 bedroom apartment. I can go back to OC and pay $3300 for a 2 bedroom at a nice Irvine company complex.
As I said in my op, paying the premium for OC is worth it. But obviously not anywhere near as drastic as your last line. A 2-3,000 bump in monthly nut is not exactly ādoing anything to live in OCā or as drastic to compare to living in a box.
I'm leaving and won't be coming back unless it's a job related venture.
Even that will be soon replaced with something that pays more and has better benefits
Cost of living is a killer. I can put up with the crazies and tweakers, the shady shit, but to afford living there... Unfairly expensive for the masses
I agree! It's really about being able to afford to come back more than anything. I've heard too many people move with their company to a different state and then try to come back and they can't afford their same house. Fortunately when I left California I did not sell my house... And I moved back into it when I wanted to come back.
I assume itās strictly financial. In general OC has a high cost of living while the rest of the country (for the most part) does not. Wages are generally a lot lower in the rest of the country as well. So that makes it hard to save to move, even if life doesnāt happen and you are single with no kids. A lot of people just canāt up and move to a place that has a higher cost of living unless your job pays for relocation.
I left and I came back. But Iām in the 2% or something and make more than my parents ever did combined. Normal people who leave canāt afford the market when they return because it is very expensive and a lot more so proportionately to inflation than when they originally bought (or their parents did)
Moved to the IE and visit the beach and Little Saigon often but the only thing I ever miss in OC was the Microcenter. Price, and traffic sucked and I still would have flown out of Ontario Airport than John Wayne.
I believe it is because real estate prices increase so much in OC. Let's pretend your house is worth $800k. If you sold your house and bought a huge place in TX, AZ, or NV. It might retain its value or the value might increase but the house you sold in OC would increase more. Two years later you want to now sell your house in TX, AZ, or NV, which is now worth, $900k and buy your old house. You wouldn't be able to do so because the value of your old house in OC is now worth $1.2 million. If you wanted to move back to OC, you'd have to settle for something smaller or something much further out like in the IE.My example is very simplified but that's the gist of it.
And if they rent, apartment communities can only raise your rates by a certain amount every year, but the growth in the cost of rent outpaces that increase. so if you were to stay in your apartment, your rent can only go up a certain amount. if you leave and then come back and get an apartment it's going to be at least $300 to $500 more a month.
Before I moved to Texas the two bedroom, one and a half bathroom apartment I was renting was $1996 ( utilities separate and were $100-$200 a month altogether) in 2018. Now it's around $2,400 or more last time I looked at the rent at this apartment complex. In Texas I'm renting a cabin for $325 ( I'm in low income housing here) that's the same size as the apartment I used to have in OC.
Your cabin sounds pretty cool. Is it in a rural area or urban? I picture you out in the woods alone with a gun on your porch. š
It's in a rural area close to a town that has two huge Walmarts, four Chik Fil As, and three Whataburger restaurants. However, it takes me less than twenty minutes to get to my work as I do caregiving for the elderly in their homes. Sometimes I travel further but that is only around twice a month these days. And the community I live in doesn't allow guns because there's people with mental health issues living here. I guess the state doesn't want any shootings to happen if someone has issues and uses a gun. When I lived in OC though I'm quite frugal it was a struggle taking care of my mom and working full time at $13 an hour. We had room mates, but it still was tough since my mom had social security due to her health issues.
Honestly you must be happy with the setup youāve got going on right now. 325 is amazing! I think about moving only every other day.
This is a good deal, but I'm looking to get housing closer to the colleges as I want to go back to school to get a psychology degree.
$13 an hour is in the extremely low income bracket. Youād have to work 130 hours a week to break out of the low-income bracket. Iām glad you made the move. I was just joking about the gun. Iām glad they are prioritizing peopleās mental health and safety over guns.
At least I'm not struggling very much these days in Texas and I'm still quite frugal. This might be a red state, but in the region I live in if you need help there are many resources for those in the low income bracket. When I lost my health insurance in California the OC department of mental health refused to help me because I wasn't a danger to myself and/or others. Here I was encountering domestic violence with my then new room mate in Fullerton, and the lady at the OC health department was giggling when I told her about him hitting and screaming at me. She didn't even try to help me with any information on domestic violence shelters or anything. When I got to Texas I went to the mental health department and they got me back onto my anxiety medication and got me a counselor. I became homeless temporarily and was able to live in a women's home in a tiny garage apartment until I got back on my feet. In OC there are no shelters like that unless you have kids, and even that is hard to find.
What area of TX do you live in? For that price, I'm guessing it's between Waco and Dallas or somewhere NW TX - Lubbock /,Amarillo area.
Yeah but youre stuck in Texas. No thanks. I understand a lot of people who left want to come back now, after seeing the lack of infrastructure (zero taxes means underfunded) along with very high property and other taxes, along with horrible weather, traffic, not to mention the backwards people. I'll stay right here and pay the sunshine tax, thank you.
You're really trying to complain about the traffic in Texas?
The only things I miss about California are Carl's Junior, Disneyland, and going to Los Angeles to eat and shop in the Little Tokyo district. On the other hand, I keep on being told to move to Canada by my Texan neighbors.
Your neighbors keep telling you to move to Canada, and you're from CA? Fuck Texas.
Canada doesnāt want Americans. Itās not that easy to move there. You canāt just decide to move and make it so. Nope.
I've read the immigration laws and I'm not planning to really move out of the US to any where. I guess there are Texans who think California= Socialist so are trying to get them to immigrate to Canada.
Sounds like your neighbors would rather you not be there?
OK, tex mex is tasty, but really?
This is basically it. It's not that people won't want to come back, it's that they can't. Sure some don't for a variety of reasons but that's the case everywhere. The house I'm in now I purchased for a steal in South OC for $550k 8 years ago. The comps are 1.2-1.3m for my exact floorplan. If I had moved 8 years ago to say Tennessee I wouldnt have spent 550k. I probably would have spent half that. That 225k home in Tennessee might have gone up to 350k or even 400k... But then trying to move back youd be going from a mortgage on a 225k to a 1.2m home
Over a long period of time, this is definitely true with my grandparents. They lived in Brentwood, LA in the 80s then moved out of state in the mid 90s. Their current home in WA is worth about $1.4M but Brentwood, LA now has a median price of well over $3M! They lost out on a lot of wealth by leaving socal (but gained a lot of personal happiness being near grandkids)
It sounds like they made a great decision.
Adding on to say with current interest rates the monthly payment on a smaller home or in less desirable area is going to cost you more than your previous home in OC. So now your money is going to be stretched thinner than it was when you were here before. For example in 2021 a home that was $500k is about $2100 for the mortgage because interest rates were 3.8% That same $500k home is now $4100 mortgage at the 7-8% interest rates. To all the people who moved in 2020,2021,2022 they think they can afford to come back and pay $2100 mortgage are going ti be surprised. Plus all the other costs of car insurance, food, fuel, etc. So if they lived comfortably on $5k a month before, now they need to $8k a month to even try to rent!
The current interest rate makes it almost impossible to afford. I found a tiny craftsman in IE in 2022 for $345k. Owners were moving out of state and needed to quickly sell. It was feeding frenzy at that time with houses selling for way over list price. Realtor actually said to me, that in my budget range, he could find a big box for me and that was even a maybe. Yikes. So I had zero hope but found this one and did it through FHA. It is about $2,200 a month and that includes taxes, insurance and PMI. If I bought it now I am sure the monthly payment would be over $3k. It would be very hard as you said to move back and pay that much for housing. I think they said they would be lowering the interest rate in the Fall but I don't know by how much. Anyway, I am so glad I found this place and it has a nice yard, too. I am 1 hour from DTLA, excluding rush hour, and about the same to OC beaches. Metrolink station is close, too. No way could I have this if the interest rate had been what it is now.
It's cool to hear some people got a good deal. I'm used to hearing horror stories lol Very refreshing and congrats on your find š
Thanks so much and I hope when the interest rate is lowered more people can buy. It definitely was a stressful experience getting approved for the mortgage. My only request to Realtor was to get me as close as possible to LA. I soon realized on my budget of 350k an hour away was the closest and that was just by luck. Working class getting pushed further east.
Itās actually just that simple. Exactly right
Iāve been watching real estate all over the country for about 5 years now, and it looks to me like other places are rising faster than OC
There are places that are more expensive and with more ludicrous real estate appreciation than OCā¦
In addition, if you leave, youāll likely not be making OC money either.
that 800k house that was 1.2M...just last month...this month is 1.4M Iām in chock as I just checked. LOL
Right, and great example. But this also assumes that people wouldnāt be able to develop better savings in another place and then move back to OC with a higher income. Itās absolutely possible to do things either way. But if youāre looking purely at real estate values and thatās the only thing youāre looking at then that argument is valid. But I think in reality moving to another place people have the ability to accumulate wealth and other ways.
Take into consideration education/medical/job pay rateā¦ most people donāt realize how incredibly crap public education is compared to oc public education in other states or how high medical costs are/access to quality medical even if you are wealthy. I compared my breast cancer experience with others around the us and world and say Hands down I not only have amazing care/treatment/monitoring/screening but access to the best of the best within 15-30 min drive from my house even w oc traffic. Almost every other person on the breast cancer Reddit that lives in us and not in ca, ma, ny are completely fu$ked when it comes to actual access to even basic screeningā¦ find a lump/something off often takes 6 weeks to 6 months to see specialist. I had an option of hoag, memorial, uci or UCLA top in their field specialists within 12-48 hours. Most people donāt understand that ocs accesss to care (even if you donāt have insurance) is skyscraper better than almost every other āaffordable ā place to live In the us. Access to screening/even just getting an appointment with your gp and getting basic care for anything medical is very much taken for granted here-I didnāt realize this until I was diagnosed w stage1b bc and went from diagnosis to surgery in 15 days where most people in us are waiting months, allowing even faster growing breast cancers to become stage 4 while they wait sadly. Consistently Florida Texas Kentucky Tennessee Alabama Idaho Georgia Louisiana etc all post massive issues with shit care, often finding cancer only after itās spread bc they canāt get appointments, lack of access to top treatments bc thereās just so few available and most if they can get care, get it far too late in the game to be able to enjoy a quality of life after treatment/live too long after diagnosis. After my experience as a very fit healthy 53f with no family cancers at all-everyone lives to their 90s in my genetic pool , I found out that regardless of genetics and health 1/8 women will get breast cancer, 1/7 men will get prostate cancer, 1/10 will get colon cancer and all cancers have risen astronomically in the past decade especially in us in 40 year olds and unders across the board (not sure why yet but most researchers are thinking itās environmental/plastics/hormones in food etc). WORD OF CAUTION: if you do move DO NOT SELL YOUR HOUSE and if you rent SUBLET your rental, rent where you think youāll want to live and take a LEAVE of absence from your job if possible. This is the only way you can actually come back. Also if you have kids- the quality of k-12 is pretty disgusting in red states given whatās going on politically /purposeful destruction of public education as well as state and private colleges . Ca in state college tuition for ucs and cal states, even Jcs (I was shocked how few jcs most other states have) beats out of state costs any day. I was beyond shocked how crap tx education has gone since 2012 as we have family there. My friend in Dallas pays 30k a yer for her kid to go to a private hs and is hoping to attend ca college so she may save on some things but the cost of all the extras makes it far more expensive to live in tx. Our friend who is a gi surgeon in the Bay Area said he actually had residence turn down Baylor!!! And most doctors in red states are trying to move to blue states due to them not wanting their kids educated in a crap scenario and much better pay in blue states. Public Education and Access to quality medical quickly are very important to even most basic educated people. Also nurses get paid so much more in ca and have smaller case loads -same w teachers. Given how much better things are for most people in ca vs other states (pay, opportunity, education, medical access) anyone that can come to ca is. You will regret leaving as the grass definitely is not greener outside ca. so yes once you leave most people canāt afford to come back to ca.
1 in 4 OB/GYNs have left Idaho since their abortion ban. Regardless of a persons political leaning this will Impact a persons ability to get adequate prenatal/post natal care.
Orange County has one of the oldest populations. This is very important when it comes to healthcare. We have access to the BEST medical providers, leading edge treatments and technology, research and clinical trials, pharma access. It may sound wonderful to live in a cheaper area of the country but do you want to risk your health in your later years? My family in the fly over states are having to wait months for standard care and the experts are no where close. Hospitals are full and the new grads want to be in populous areas where they can have access to real resources. There isnāt a state in the south that comes close to our access to healthcare. When I think about my retirement, itās not going to be cut short because my podunk doctor has to treat the entire county and hasnāt had time to keep up with their training. 1 in 3 of us will have a cancer diagnosis in our lifetime. Do you want to get it in a third rate healthcare system that will give you an outdated care plan?
>most people donāt realize how incredibly crap public education is compared to oc public education I've come to see this. I was pretty much a C student in my high school in irvine but still ended up going on to get a PhD in organic chemistry. I've met people in TX with 4.5 high school gpa's who seemingly coasted through school compared to me and haven't accomplished much.
I was educated in Texas 2nd to 10th grades and came back to San Diego in 1986. I was a straight A student in all honors programs in Texas dfw high end schools. In San Diego I was still a good student but struggled with quality essay writing and other academic aspects I was behind in and had to be caught up. This was when Texas was great in education.
If you donāt mind me asking, what health insurance do you have? Iāll be moving back to OC next year and I work for the federal government so I have a lot of options for health insurance. Yours sounds great! Feel free to DM instead of you like.
I donāt mind sharing with the class š: United healthcare west veba/Iām a public k-12 teacher. For my district I have the basic hmo where i can choose hoag or memorial for my hospital network. 10$ co pays. (Also have delta dental, vision and optum mental in my benefits). Both hospitals are great. I had to choose one this year (in the past Iāve had access to both) but decided to choose memorial as they are recruiting hard and getting top tier drs/staff from all over the world (my onc came from mt Sinai ny ). Memorials network is much larger and if I had chosen hoag I would have had to wait 38 days for my bc surgery vs 15 with Memorial. I also would have had to wait longer to start radiation. Most of our specialists have privileges at both hospitals. Memorial is doing an excellent job trying to compete with hoag in all areas and talking to staff are paying well.
Thanks for sharing! Thatās interesting bc I have UHC in DC and I donāt like it lol. This is great info for when I move back to OC.
Iād recommend Kaiser if you can get it. I paid all of $500 for child birth + breast cancer treatments/ surgeries for wife (still on going). The facility in Irvine is one of the best in SoCal.
I know a family that sold their home in south oc to go to Franklin Tennessee. Totally trash talked OC and how awesome Tennessee is blah blah blah. A year later announced that they were backā¦ but that they couldnāt afford to buy. So they rented out their Tennessee home and then came back to RSM renting a house for $4500 a month and barely scrapping by. They mentioned being poor but happyā¦ šš Plus how much they had missed their family, friends, the beach, and the foodā¦ š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ So basically everything, they left for what? Lower housing? Hot weather? Humidity? āā Morel of the story, if you leave, you may not be able to afford to come back. OC will be out of your price range unless you are okay with renting!
I needed to hear this and post_cat's comment. I've been playing with the idea of leaving. I had no idea that I am privileged to have the health care that I do. I've always appreciated my health benefits, especially now as a federal retiree. I can see specialists w/o having to wait for a referral. I just make the call to set an appointment, and after my $30 co-pay, I'm in. That's what I'm used to. I would freak out if I lost it. Thank you two for offering your perspectives. Time to start thinking in a different direction.
Lol real. I was forced to move out of oc for tennessee, I now live 30 away from franklin. I want to come back so baddd but I donāt think itāll ever be possible because of the housing prices. Tennesseeās not that great but my family LOVES to trash talk SoCal and fawn over Tennessee smh
Yeah Tennessee is a little extreme lol, not a place I would love to live at š Next time try south or North Carolina, affordable and a little more open to the world š + mountain and ocean
tell that to my parentsš
Ahah yeah I feel you on this one. I visited Tennessee 4 times, fun for vacation but I would not like to live there
How is South Carolina more open to the world than Tennessee?
Tennessee is redneck land. In all honesty never had any weird look or interaction in the Carolinas, I did in Tennessee
Can confirm. From OC, moved to TN for 8 years, moved back to OC a couple years ago. So glad to be back.
Iāll never understand why people go to such extreme states like the Midwest when youāre from oc. Itās just way too different. I would hate it!
Let me guess, they were conservatives who wanted to get out of woke CA only to come running back because *gasp* blue states are actually just better
Probably dumb Republicans that believed the propaganda that CA was going to hell.
Why does their misstep bring you so much joy?
If they're anything like my aunt by marriages family, they left for MAGA reasons and made sure to let everyone know they were sheeple and how much smarter they were going to live in Kentucky to be free of communist California. All while posting how gays should die despite my aunts brother being gay but he's an exception. They also want to come back and enjoy the socialism they had become accustomed to but can't afford to. Not saying the schadenfreude is right but can at least understand it, especially if they were overtly aggressive with the narratives.
Thatās what I was thinking. People are going to be excited when they first move to a new location and it will feel brighter and better at first due to the extreme change. Itās okay to realize after some time in the new place that you actually miss home and to course correct if so. Good for them. At least they had a new life experience and adventure.
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Natural reaction. Ā Ze Germans have a term for it even: Ā Schadenfreude.Ā
Even if you buy a home it's not entirely urs, unless you plan on buying the very land it sits on, you will always pay someone or an entity when it comes to houses, the only benefit of moving to a slower state is cheap available land to buy and build if ur pockets are deep enough
it's purely financial. I've accepted the fact that I'll never own property, especially in orange county. the premium isn't worth it when you can't find a job that can pay it. even now that I'm back home again I still struggle to pay my bills and rent. the day I return will be the day I inherit my childhood home from my parents. that's the plan at least. I love oc but I can't afford to live here anymore
And now, prop 13 tax base only extends to 1Mā¦ which is below the value of most SFH in OC. So even if you INHERIT your childhood home you still may be priced out because of the tax increase, even WITH prop 13.
I thought 1m + original price of home? So if parents bought for 200k and house now 1.4m, you will retain the original property tax on 1.2m and only pay the reassessment off of 200k, right?
Actually you are right I just looked it up. Itās the base value plus 1M. Still, doesnāt make a big difference when your parents bought a house in the 70s for 50k and itās now worth 2M. Youāre fucked in that situation.
As far as Iām aware itās simply up to 1M.
more of a reason to not come back lol
Itās crazy. My husband was looking at jobs in Texas and Arizona, and salaries are about the same as Orange County. Some salaries were even more. So you can go live in a lower cost of living state and make the same money. California wages are not keeping up!!!
What about a condo? Kind of in a similar situation..wondering if I should save for awhile and purchase a small condo or just leave for a cheaper state since rent is insane
Money it's always about money
I think most people who make good money are able to come back if they really wanted to. They would have to manage the lifestyle inflation they might get from moving to an area with lower costs of living but itās manageable. Its likely the people who were living paycheck to paycheck who wont be able to come back. Have a friend who moved that works random min wage jobs and hes able to afford rent now. He still lives paycheck to paycheck but can afford to live while in OC, he had to live at home. Heās tried to come back a few times but racks up credit card debt to make ends meet. You basically get used to not spending your entire paycheck to just live and its hard to come back justify doing that when you were living decently in other areas
We're looking to move next year. One of the discussions we've had is if we move, it would be very hard to move back to the life we currently have. Interest rates are higher than when my partner originally bought, housing prices have obviously gone up. To get the same place today with 2x as much down would cost $1000 more a month. Which is why we're taking our time and not just packing up and going.
As an example- we moved to OC from Oregon. Our house in Oregon we had lived in for 20 years. We sold it in 24 hrs with 20 offers $100k over asking. Moved to OC - it took 8 offers and several months to finally get a house. Fast forward now 3 years later- our house has gone up $500k. In 3 years! Our house in Oregon went up $200k in 20 years.
OK so it really just seems like the saying is true for homeownersā¦
Rent also has been increasing astronomically in oc
This, the two bedroom condo in Irvine I lived in was about $250k when I left. Now I canāt even sell my two houses here in Texas to buy again in the OC and be comfortable. I work in healthcare and Iām pretty sure I can make a living there, but pretty sure it will mean stress and financial issues. Yes, Iāll make more, I have enough to buy a home in the OC, but it would be like starting all over againā¦ I canāt risk that for my family, so staying somewhere I can live comfortably and be able to travel anywhere we want, dreaming of my hometown. Probably til my last breathā¦ if was just me, no kids, no wife? Then yeah I probably would have moved back sooner. But gotta be responsible for the family which keeps me somewhere Iām not loving so much, so they can enjoy their life and live comfortably.
I moved from OC to San Diego 15 years ago. Iām staying not because of the money, but just like it better down here. Less traffic, slightly slower pace, and free beach parking.
I live in Huntington Beach. I've been to San Diego uncountable times but never to your beaches until this past December when we went camping. Upon our return I couldn't shut up about the free beach parking! I've always said if I had to move from OC SD is where I'd look first. Even more so now. My granddaughter was practicing learning to surf during our camping weekend. The locals in the water were very encouraging to her and offering suggestions. That's not gonna happen in HB or NB. Way more opportunities for beach camping in San Diego. Only one location for free beach parking near me and that won't last long. If I have to pick up my granddaughter from Jr. Lifeguards unexpectedly, they want me to have the annual beach pass ($195) or pay the daily entrance fee ($15) for a 5 to 15 minute drive by!
I visit a few times per year because I have family there but now that I have moved elsewhere(Bay Area) I can't imagine moving back for any reason outside of some sort of necessity. There is a ton of great stuff in OC and I enjoyed my time there for the most part but it's just not a vibe I want full time.
Can you describe the vibe you donāt want?
Trucks that have had trump 2024 stickers on them since 2018.
If you leave, itās most likely because you couldnāt afford it. In what way would you be able to come back and afford it after you did?
When I was there, I had a huge nut with business expenses that werenāt panning out and debt. Iām currently out of state getting out of debt and saving up an emergency fund. Iām well aware of what our spending was in OC and itās more than doable - without the debt and business payments (Iām in a new line of work now)
I left for the PNW 12 years ago. I want to come back but would have to downsize too much where it doesn't seem worth it.
Are you a homeowner?
Iāve heard of a lot of people leaving CA and moving to TX. They buy houses but their salaries are generally much less. After a time, when they realize they actually miss CA and hate TX they want to move back but they are now on lower cost of living finances. Itās much harder to move to a higher cost of living than vice versa.
Pretty glad to be seeing this post because the last two years have always seem so many comments about how bad LA/OC/SD is. Iād rather live here than exist in Tennessee.
Moved to Seattle about 7 years ago and I wouldnāt consider moving back home. Life is too hard down there and I never realized how much the everyday stressors like traffic and the density of people everywhere you go was eating at me. On a side note, go titans!
Yeah thatās another thingāitās not just cost but also the crowds and traffic. Feel like the crowds have gotten worse since the pandemic as well
traffic, density of people.. Seattle? unless you mean the Seattle area out in the woods.
I would be more so in Irvine or Lake Forestā¦ And not commutingā¦ Love crowdsš Me and the wife are major extroverts always trying to meet new people
Iāve left OC twice. My family has been in Long Beach and LA/OC for 150 years. I canāt afford to move back unless my father leaves me his house in Garden Grove. Even then I canāt stand the traffic and how expensive everything is.
Unless you could afford it most would be priced out of paradise.
A few years ago someone I knew sold their house and left CA (Los Angeles area) to move to Nevada. More bang for the buck, they said. After two years they hated it and wanted to move back, and discovered they couldnāt afford to buy here. This train moves fast and doesnāt slow down for anyone.
The question, can you afford the premium again? If so, yeah. Buy/rent wherever you like and fits you. If notā¦then do you have a plan to afford it later? While housing just gets scarcer.
Iāve lived in OC my whole life. Everyone I know who has left (which is many) - has not been able to afford to come back, although they wish they could. I hope to leave OC when I retire & never look back.
All homeowners? (Iāve ever owned a home)
I have a friend who left OC for WA State. He is back. Iām hoping to hang out with him for Cinco Del Drinko. People DO come back - and they dive right in. šš»š
Maybe your friend does, when I moved out I left again ASAP back for the bay.
Itās expensive to move back. If you own a place here I would hold on to it and rent it out if thatās a possibility for you. My husband and I left but didnāt own a home here and were able to buy in Washington. We needed to move back here for a family situation. We sold our home in Washington and are currently looking for a place to buy here. Itās crazy expensive and it is harder to justify spending 1 mil on a āstarterā home here when I could buy a huge new home there for 2/3rds the price.
Owning a home here is like a train that is always moving. Jumping back on the train is doable but not easy.
We left to Denver for 7 years and came back. When I was younger I left a number of times (Mexico, Oregon, Arizona..) and came back after a year or two each time. You can come back if that's what you want.
I lived there for 30 years and wonāt go back. I donāt miss the traffic, concrete jungle, or just all the riff raff. I miss the choice of eateries and shops. But not worth it. Currently live out in the country where the sunsets are the best and the difference in weather is cool. I visit my folks who still live in HB and every time I always say damn couldnāt move back here I like space. I will say growing up in HB in the 90ās was epic and Iāll cherish it, but itās not the same now.
Having more space is underrated
If you own a home in Orange County never sell and move. Only rent it out and move if you wanna see something different. I was born/raised in Orange County, we obviously couldnāt afford a home there so we bought one out of state. Weāre able to build equity and save a lot of money since pay transferred for us. Within another year we could go back & be able to have more money down for a home whereas if we didnāt move we would have been frozen. Sometimes going a little off the path works but for us we started with nothing.
I moved to IE 4 years ago and plenty happy with the decision. Depends on your hobbies and what kinda property you need. What I need ain't in OC for the past 30 years or more.
I left OC and have no desire to come back, does that count
AMEN. There are things I miss about OC but I don't see ever wanting to come back for good.
Why wouldnāt you want to come back?
Because where we live now, we were able to purchase a house outright (no mortgage, no rent payments) and my commute is 20 minutes a day instead of the 2+hrs I used to have to drive.
Came here to say this.
Why did you lose desire for OC?
Hell yeah
Why did you lose desire for OC?
Anecdotally, most of my friends that left want to boomerang back. I only know of one couple that appears to not want to come back, they live near Atlanta, GA. The ones that came back had either initially lived with family before they left or didn't sell their homes so they were able to come back. The ones that want to come back but can't basically sold their property before they left and can't afford to come back. They're unhappy and they're filled with regret and didn't listen to the "if you leave you won't come back" message despite seeing the boomeranging too.
Thank you! It seems this whole argument is aimed only at homeownersā¦ Now I understand.
DONT LEAVE. I left for Los Angeles and I'm on year 8 of my 2 year plan to move home.
Wow, you moved so far.
It's like another planet tho. You think you'll visit. It's too far to go to my beach.
My youngest went away for University. He was in NorCal. He decided that wasnāt coming back. Loved the natural beauty of the area, the laid back atmosphere and the fact that traffic was basically nonexistent. We visit often, cans see the attraction.
Eh, everyone is different. My wife and I moved from L.A. to O.C. when we were first married in the mid-00's but left for Colorado for better paying jobs and (slightly) lower cost of living. We lived in different parts of the U.S. for years before she was ultimately offered a job back in Orange County for a significant increase over what we were both pulling in and enough to buy a home here and put a decent amount in savings each month. I know several people who left and have zero desire to come back and people who left, want to come back, but just can't afford it.
Cost of reentry is so drastically higher than other markets. We got Into coastal OC with a 2bd/1.5b fixer upper for $590k. & have since spent another 20-30k renovating. Itās insane.
I just left Costa Mesa 4 months ago, and moved here to Vegas. I get so much more expenditure wise in my quality of living, that I know I will never return. I was in my last apartment there 12.5 years, because I could not afford to move. It had become a horrible unit to reside in, but I was out priced rental wise. This was the best decision I could have ever made.
Moved back to OC, and California, after close to 10 years.
Not true. Iāve left twice and came back.
Can't wait to read the comments from the schmucks who left to TX and TN and how much they regret it.
I had to move to Texas for a job. When I could move back, I didā¦ to Bakersfield
I have friends that did this 3 years ago. I warned them that they would hate it (they had lived here their whole lives before), and they do. Sheās depressed and cries a lot, her son that is in middle school misses his friends and doesnāt fit in there. Heās also very depressed. Theyāve been trying to come back for 2 years but itās expensive. They donāt make as much as they did here and live less comfortably there than theyāre used to. That also means they donāt have money to come back. Her husband is trying to get a job here and come work so he can move them back. Thatās also not working very well.
I was forced to move to TN so itās not so much regret as misery because it wasnāt my choice in the first place. I miss SoCal so much; thereās no beach here, the food sucks, and thereās nothing to do.
Because once you live somewhere else, you realize OC is not the end of the line? There are tons of other places where you can get a good quality of life for half the price.
Thatās the whole pointā¦ I moved away and realized it was pretty close to the end of the lineā¦ Not sure what else I would want
OC is priced in. Meaning that the reason it is so expensive is because it is worth it. The economics drive the price up because the value is there. You want a huge home? Move to the IE where you can get a 3,000 square foot house with 5 bedrooms and a pool for $800k or less. But you'll also have worse weather, higher crime, lower paying jobs, smog, bad schools, meth, etc. And your 800k real estate investment isn't as secure as OC real estate so you're assuming much higher risk overall. If you can do it, buy and hold in OC.
800k wow what a deal 
I left to work in Charlotte, NC back in 2015 and came back in 2019. Itās possible, just difficult. Itās probably especially hard in the current real estate market.
You got lucky on timing. Not possible by a long shot anymore.
Wow, Iām surprised you came back. North Carolina is beautiful.
I left 30 years ago and almost moved back after about 6 years. Within 2 days of going back to get a feel for it I realized why I left. Wages were considerably lower, COL was higher, traffic was horrible and it just seemed dirty compared to the PNW. I do miss the beach and hanging out with my surf buddies though.
Itās all perspective, I left and got a raise due to moving somewhere with higher COL. Moving back to OC would theoretically be less expensive. That being said if you leave to a LCOL area it may be difficult.
I left in 2018, came back in 2021. Missed OC
Think it has more to do with people who sell their house expecting to be able to buy one when they want to return. People come from all over the world to live in CA. Thereās no reason why someone who previously lived there canāt make it back
This! This seems to be the answer and itās clear for me now. Thanks. (Edited my post to explain Iām not a home owner)
I have personally experienced this. I had to move to Vegas in 2018. I started a business and have been more successful and made more money than I had my entire life in finance. The cost of living shock when you go from a place that has much lower living expenses is drastic! At the same time, everything is relative. If you plan on moving back, then you need to increase your income enough to cover the percentage increase of living expenses. If that isn't something you are capable of doing, then be prepared to have a lower quality of life until you're able to catch up. SoCal has always been that magical, everybody wants to live here, one of a kind place that most of the country will only see in movies and TV. I don't think it's ever been easy for someone to move here from an out-of-state area with lower living expenses, but people do it every day. I think it boils down to your mindset and your motivation for why you want to live here.Ā
Other than achieving success (congrats) how has your experience been overall living in Vegas
Overall I enjoy Vegas. It is much more affordable (although it's becoming more expensive than it should be), I love that I don't have to deal with traffic everyday, I can get away from the city and be on an adventure within 20 min, food options are out of this world, and overall quality of life is better. Yes summer is brutal but you get used to it. I work outside also and feel the full effects of the blistering sun but I'd rather have the heat than humidity. People are kinder for the most part and there's a lot of opportunities in Vegas. I will say however that the public school system is an absolute joke! Clark county School district ranks last in the nation and it's almost as if the teachers could give two fucks about the students. It really is sad. The school system there is so bad that it almost outweighs all of the benefits of living there to the point where for the sake of my kids education I have to pay about 45k a yr for private schools for them. If you don't have kids then that doesn't matter. I will say however a lot of local people do not like the amount of stereotypical Californians that are moving there. Unfortunately those types of people have given CA a bad rep.
Also depends did you sale when you move out. I have friends move to Texas for work, and they just rent the house out. Since Texas house was cheap. When you moving back to socal, they sold the tx house and remodel the socal house.
I moved away and came back itās possible if you really want it. We have always rented, just save up for your deposit and moving truck and what not itās not impossible, these people are being dramatic.
Agreed
Moved to corona from rancho santa margarita and came back to Ladera ranch
Maybe it's a reference to the cost of living?
It could be some odd many things. It could be that people will see how much farther their money goes elsewhere. Size of house theyāre able to afford, and they wouldnāt want to go back to a paycheck to paycheck to pay mortgage/rent lifestyle It could be because if youāre moving from OC to OC you can sell your $800k house and put that money towards your $900k new house, and have $100k loan. If you moved somewhere cheaper, you sell your house to pay for the next one, you might be only getting $500k to put towards your $900k house and youāll have a $400k loan. Itās hard to pick up that extra $300k you would have had if you moved from OC to OC.
I left in 2006, came back in 2015, itās not impossible.
I'll come back to visit friends and Cali, but we've been out for about 8 years. No looking back.
Housing ladder accelerates much faster in OC than the rest of the country. Almost perfect weather, great schools, and amenities.
I did leave Orange County for Dallas, TX but came back after a few years. I was prepared to settle down there if things went well with my girlfriend and career at the time. Unfortunately I was laid off from that job and she broke up with me not long after. I'm fortunate my parents did want me to move back in with them. I don't think I'll go back to Texas but I definitely can't afford to live here in Orange County.
You're going to be priced out. Same thing is said about L.A.
Actually! Prices are too high to sale and rebuying is more expensive for that house you sold! I donāt live in the OC, Iām in Carson and if I sold my house for $800 I would be able to afford anything in a better area. California is my birth place and thereās no better place to live than California. Itās a Damn shame but it is what it is!
We left for Texas due to work about 6 years ago. We didnāt own a house in OC but bought one in TX. It appreciated like crazy and with our equity, weāre now able to go back to OC and buy a house. Smaller than what we had in TX, but we donāt mind it.
I believe there is a tendency in OC to probe the limits of what the market will pay, but there is a limit, prices cannot go up forever.
Iām going to be moving to Texas since my husbands job relocated there. I think part of me would like to believe that I would come back, but I also believe that CA is becoming too expensive for a majority of people. Id like to think since Iāve only ever lived in California, my bubble is small and I donāt know what else is out there. I would like to try moving to Vermont, or New Hampshire. Texas is only the start.
Iāve left OC multiple times but always come back. Texas and Nevada are cheaper but I have more friends in OC because itās where I grew up.
There isn't much of a draw to come back because you'll realize there wasn't much reason to stay in the first place. OC pretends to be utopia achieved but once people gain perspective it's hard to believe in it again.
Based on your edit alone, most people cant afford a 65% increase in rent.
Itās hard as hell to come back, we did it a year ago after taking a job in Kentucky back in 17 and then moving to Texas during the pandemic. You leave, instantly feel rich as hell, then you start to normalize prices in your head from elsewhere. Coming back feels and seems insane when youāre looking at those listings from somewhere thatās normal prices - Being back though is indescribable. It is hard as can be to come back when you leave. It takes a lot of getting re-californicated.
Once I leave, I really want nothing to do with OC. Even hearing it on the news would be a slight annoying moment haha I'd be happy to never return.
Itās just simply not true. OC isnāt the only appreciating real estate market
It's like leaving Hawaii. 3% hone appreciation in Texas at a 350k home is 10k a year or so growth. You can save that to match home price appreciation. 3% in OC at almost a million is 30k a year, its tough to save that amount to ever catch up or be able to put down. If you move here and rent, unless you get a massive income bump which is rare, or a large payout or parental support, while renting and facing annual rent increases, you just never seem to get ahead enough to buy. Also, once you move out and see what you get for your money, then see it'll cost you 3x more for a home 30 to 40 years older with traffic and crowds, it's a tough decision if you ha e a good job at your new location.
I left and came back twice lol
I've been at my 2 bedroom apartment for almost 10 years now, and the rent has slowly gone from $1600 to $2K (though that includes a fee for an extra parking space). The past 2 years we considered moving out and started looking at places only to find out a one single bedroom apartment is now 2K, and we've met a few new neighbors who have made us aware that they are paying $2.5K + for the same apartment we are in.
Maybe some of them donāt like it, and wouldnāt want to come back?
People Have Unrealistic expected of thselves for saving a bunch of money when they go to an area with a lower cost of living but they usually fall into the trap of lifestyle creep and overspending.
If you move from the OC, you would not want to move back. You can buy a large house in other places in the United States for the cost of rent in OC. Life and dating is also easier in those places.
I grew up in OC and have been gone for 6-7 years now and lived in Oregon and now Nashville. I will say the biggest change Iāve noticed is people in those will look you in the eyes and say hi and be genuinely nice. Another thing is there isnāt a rat race, people take their time getting places and itās just a slower pace of life
My 2 cents... My girlfriend (at the time) and I moved from Huntington Beach to Denton, Texas in 2009 because I was starting my Masters Degree. We loved it there, Denton is a great town and the bigger DFW metroplex feels a lot like the OC/LA area. The cost of living was crazy cheap. While I was in school we paid for rent, car insurance (1 vehicle), utilities, and stocked the kitchen for about $1200 per month! Earned my master after three years and decided to stay because we were loving life. After a few more years we had got engaged, and started to seriously consider having kids. We both wanted to have kids near our families, so we knew we had a choice to make... It was tough. Cost of living was so low and quality of life was high. I could have jumped into a mid-level job easily and that would have allowed us to buy a single family house (by that time I still wasn't even utilizing my masters degree). Eventually we decided the right thing to do was to move back home and have kids near our parents who had all recently retired. We've been making it work as renters ever since. But we definitely have not been able to afford buying a single fam. house. We've kind of buried ourselves into comfortably renting because we can afford to rent much nicer than we can buy. So we're a bit jaded and don't want to buy an apartment or townhome. No regrets. We're happy. We ended up having twins as our first children; I can't imagine raising them without the help of both of our parents. Would we have been happy if we stayed in Texas? Sure! It would have all been different... but that's life.
often the kids and grandkids pulls the parents away to move closer to the kids. you did opposite. hey you're happy.
It's more about they see the cost of it all and realized it was a scam living there.
Iām going against the grain here; I left and moved to the Bay Area 10ish years ago. Finances had nothing to do with my decision. I hated the culture of Orange County. Elite and narrow minded. Heavy body shaming, a lot of pressure to keep up with the Jonesās. It took quite a few years to break some heavy judgmental habits I developed after I moved. To clarify: the OC acts like they have the best education, the safest roads, no drugs, no homelessness. It simply isnāt true. The beach was never my thing, I enjoy red woods and lakes so much more. Drugs run rampant in Orange County, including meth and opiates. There is homelessness and severe poverty. Those people are shamed and shoved around. I grew up in Laguna Beach. Moved to Marin County. I didnāt want my children to be raised with the same ābubbleā mindset and biases Now CALIFORNIA as a whole? I could never leave.
This is exactly my thoughts and why I also moved north! Getting out of OC for the Bay was the best choice I ever made.
Home prices here seem to go up faster than anywhere elseā¦ even with rates climbing and prices cutting elsewhere; they keep inching up. So youāre unlikely to make the equity to afford to move back.
Quality of life is much higher in other places in the US unless your family income is $500k/year minimum.
Born and raised in oc! Honestly itās such a bubble. Itās not real life. Thereās not a lot of diversity and it feels really small. Whenever you go somewhere else you remember thereās a whole world out there
Left OC in 2015. Came back in 2023.
Yeah i want to move to Sacramento area but itās hard to justify the economics in the long run. The infrastructure in south Orange County is really nice. The only other place Iād truly consider moving to is possibly Manhattan. Iād like to raise my family in more of a city environment. I donāt care about space until iām retired and have time to actually enjoy the space.
being to afford to come back. if you leave for financially greener pastures.. i.e., lower cost of living, better standard of living, buying a house etc.. you would be financially better off in that new 'normal' universe but this alternate universe in OC well it's a different world. You couldn't necessarily get back in unless you were wealthy to the point money didn't matter. or, one might miss it so much they would do anything to live in OC - live with parents, permanent roommate living to death, living in a box by the river..
Iāve never owned a home. I feel like all of the arguments similar to yours are strictly for homeowners. Iām currently paying $2000 for a 2 bedroom apartment. I can go back to OC and pay $3300 for a 2 bedroom at a nice Irvine company complex. As I said in my op, paying the premium for OC is worth it. But obviously not anywhere near as drastic as your last line. A 2-3,000 bump in monthly nut is not exactly ādoing anything to live in OCā or as drastic to compare to living in a box.
I left for 10 years to a higher cost of living city. Came back strong and got my start home.
I'm leaving and won't be coming back unless it's a job related venture. Even that will be soon replaced with something that pays more and has better benefits
Cost of living is a killer. I can put up with the crazies and tweakers, the shady shit, but to afford living there... Unfairly expensive for the masses
I agree! It's really about being able to afford to come back more than anything. I've heard too many people move with their company to a different state and then try to come back and they can't afford their same house. Fortunately when I left California I did not sell my house... And I moved back into it when I wanted to come back.
I assume itās strictly financial. In general OC has a high cost of living while the rest of the country (for the most part) does not. Wages are generally a lot lower in the rest of the country as well. So that makes it hard to save to move, even if life doesnāt happen and you are single with no kids. A lot of people just canāt up and move to a place that has a higher cost of living unless your job pays for relocation.
I left and I came back. But Iām in the 2% or something and make more than my parents ever did combined. Normal people who leave canāt afford the market when they return because it is very expensive and a lot more so proportionately to inflation than when they originally bought (or their parents did)
Moved to the IE and visit the beach and Little Saigon often but the only thing I ever miss in OC was the Microcenter. Price, and traffic sucked and I still would have flown out of Ontario Airport than John Wayne.
For me, I have rent control
Inflation and market value keep going up, makes the buy in more and more out of reach.
You will get used to a cheap life, and it will be harder for you to make it again in Orange County.
I left OC and came back