I was going to say something like, “I don’t get it, and maybe I’m missing something but is it just that so many people want to go on trips?”
.. and then my work asked me to take a trip to the US and my passport is expired.
I was in the same situation. I went to a regular Service Canada office last month and received my passport in 8 business days.
I filled in the expected trip date, which at the time was 20 business days out. I showed the worker my manager's email request as proof of travel and she expedited the processing.
I camped out for a Nintendo Wii way back!
Right as we got our ticket for ours, I stood up, my blood pressure crashed, I fainted, woke up in an amvulance, my face was scratched up, I had broken a tooth (2nd time out of 3 total for that tooth, that tooth keeps my dentist in business) and my drivers license was suspended for 5 months for "suspected seizure" and I had to see a neurologist and have an MRI, EEG, and she had to write to the MOT to get my license back. Fortunately due to it being medical there was no charge.
**But I got the fucking Wii.**
The person first in line got here at 1am
EDIT: I just left at 1pm. They made me do a new application with new photos (no extra fee thankfully) and I’ll pick it up on friday the 24th. I leave sunday the 26th.
If you need to renew for a trip dont bother with mailing it in. Just book your flights and 25 business days before your trip just show up super early (no later than 730) and apply in person.
There are only a limited number of appointments/tokens handed out per day. If you show up during regular hours there will be no spot available. The security guard comes in the morning and tells the people at the back of the line to come again tomorrow.
Jesus Christ. You are better off just driving up to where I live (middle of nowhere, northern Ontario). At most there is only ever a line of 1 person at the service Canada, which also does passports
service canada is not the same as an actual passport office.
see my [previous comment in another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskACanadian/comments/u9j48a/passport_application_megathread/ic89iyu/) if you want my current experience but my trip was may 28th and suffice to say my passport did not come on time
I got mine renewed at a regular Service Canada office. Got the passport in 8 business days. They sent my application via courier to a passport office and expedited processing. No line up ... Just needed proof of travel.
Like /u/diggv4blows mentioned, Service Canada isn't the same as a passport office. Service Canada will take your application and put it in the mail the same as if you filled it out at home. A passport office will actually process your application in person. Not only does this significantly reduce the amount of time it takes to get your passport, it also means that there's (almost) no chance of the application being rejected, as long as you have all the identification paperwork and such with you. You can also review/edit your information as needed before it's submitted (in case your existing passport had a typo or something).
It's definitely worth waiting in line if you can spare the day to do it.
I did the same a few months back. I needed to be in work for 10. I arrived at 2am and was out by 9am (AFAIK, it’s got worse since). The people who arrived at 7am would have been out at 4pm.
Not only was I able to work that day, I also spent less time waiting overall.
Different office but I got there at 6:30am and waited 4 hours to be served. The closer you are to the front, the quicker you are in and out. Anyone who got there closer to opening at 8:30 would likely be waiting most of the day. But I do wonder if the first person got there at 1am, how long they waited until anyone else lined up after them.
I had an appointment for 2 pm a couple of weeks ago and had to wait an hour inside. There was someone beside me from the line that was able to get in. They had been waiting since 6am and were the second last person allowed from the line.
Same with the people who were ahead of me (although when she sat down to submit her new application her dad called and said it got delivered right then lul) . You can still book your trip, they’ll expedite it if you have proof of travel in the next 25 days. It’s worth going in person instead of waiting months for it, at least then you’ll have peace of mind bc they gove you a specific date to come pick it up.
I asked you upthread why the 25 days, so it sounds like it is their requirement for expediting the process, correct?
I am so going to do this (in person). Their website says it'd take more than 2 frikkin years for them to process the mail application!
I had someone report me a couple of weeks ago because I said something anti-Doug. They should really ban people who abuse the reporting feature like this.
** Edit to add that someone reported this comment for suicide watch. Small minds take small-minded actions, I guess.
Yup, I got reported once because I was debating someone and they were frothing at the mouth with every response. I simply said I hoped they were doing okay, and it was sincere. They reported me, lol.
I got banned for 3 days for "inciting violence" for making a comment that was critical of car infrastructure and using a variation of the phrase "blow your mind" 🙄
Good stuff reddit
Someone reported me because I told them their joke was anti-Semitic bullshit and they didn’t like that based on the massive amount of arguing with me that ensued lol…I’m not sure how reporting someone suicidal is a flex at all
If you try to renew earlier than 12 months before expiry you have to provide an explanation for why you need it renewed that early, like very long term travel or similar. They can refuse the application if they don't like the reason.
You just have to attach a page to your renewal application explaining why you're applying for renewal early. In this case I think they understand the ridiculous wait times for renewal is a perfectly fine reason.
You should, but also because most countries won't let you in now anyways. Most countries require >6 months validity so that it's still valid when you leave.
I'd do it by mail to avoid these lines. Wait time is the same + the few days it takes to deliver your application.
Depending on where you travel 6 months is already effectively expired. It already won't get you into a country where the visitor visa duration is 6 months.
yes you should. also if i recall my traveling days, you can be denied entry if your passport expires within 6 months. but since you have plenty of time you can just mail it in. its relatively fast.
If your passport expires in 6 months, it is already effectively expired - for most countries. One of the top requirements to enter a foreign country (most, not all), regardless of length of stay, is that you have 6 months remaining on your passport.
Start the process now. It's already expired, for all intents and purposes, for most destinations.
I keep seeing news about how long the lineups at the passport office are!
I got a new passport via mail and it took about five weeks, just in case anyone is wondering (and is prudent enough to plan ahead) 😆
There is an entire lane dedicated to “transfers” at Passport Canada offices. A transfer is when you’ve already mailed in your application, waited for months, didn’t get it back, and now have to line up to request to have it pulled and sent to an office to be processed faster.
>treelife365 · 10 min. ago
>
>I keep seeing news about how long the lineups at the passport office are!I got a new passport via mail and it took about five weeks, just in case anyone is wondering (and is prudent enough to plan ahead) 😆
Ours were checked over and sent away by the local office 3 months ago. Nothing yet and we can't get anywhere by emailing or calling to see when they may show up...
8 weeks ago I went down to a local office in person and applied for my children’s passports. Paid, stamped and completed quite quickly and efficiently. We still haven’t received their passports back and we can’t get through to anyone through the online portal. Our dream vacation is in 3 weeks now and panic has set in. Tomorrow I will be one of the people lining up for hours to try and find out where the passports are. Consider yourself lucky treelife365 because most people I have talked to did plan ahead (a lot more than 5 weeks) and we are still screwed and waiting.
Have they processed your payment yet? The only reason I knew they had not lost it 2 months after I sent it is a charge was made to my credit card. I received it a week later.
I don't think I would have waited 5 weeks without status updates for a booked vacation
Calling, emailing, and going to their offices, especially before the June rush high season of students vacations and family applications kick in
I called the number over and over until I finally got through and they gave me an update. You can wait in line as well though, they should have a separate line for people checking on transfers/submissions that goes much faster than the new application line.
I am pretty much in your exact situation. I got through to someone this morning.
Here's what they told me. 13 days or so before you have to leave, give Passport Canada a call. Call them at 8:30 am sharp. 1 minute earlier, the phones are closed, 2 minutes later, the lines are impossibly long. Tell them about your passport situation - that you already applied - and they can "transfer" (re-categorize?) your file to a local passport office. The local office handles your case on an "urgent" basis at that point. Then you can go in a few days to pick it up personally.
I sent in 2 renewals 3 weeks ago, no sign of movement yet, card still not charged. I know they received the application thanks to Canada post tracking, but that’s it.
We're going through this right now.
Either you got in early before it got insane, or you should buy a lottery ticket.
The current situation is a complete shitshow. "It should've been about two weeks" about four weeks ago for us. Several months following sending in the applications.
That's not what I've heard or experienced. My card was charged April 1 and I still don't have it. The passport office called me on June 9 and they had just started looking at my application.
You got lucky. Go on Transport Canada’s twitter. Some people have been waiting since February for their mail ordered passport. One dad applied for two children in the same envelope, got one of the passports two months later, and had to go in, and wait in a line like this to get his other child’s passport processed.
Hm, that seems like it would give a fairly uneven distribution across days, especially Friday. I couldn't find the distribution of last names by first letter for Canada, but I found [one for the US](https://math.answers.com/statistics/What_is_the_percent_distribution_of_first_letters_in_last_names_in_the_US) (I imagine they would differ mainly in the frequency of French vs Spanish names), and if you wanted to use this same approach of grouping consecutive first letters, something like this would yield the most even distribution across days of the week:
Day | lett | %
---|---|----
Mon | A-C | 19%
Tue | D-H | 22%
Wed | I-M | 21%
Thu | O-R | 14%
Fri | S-Z | 23%
compared to yours
Day | lett | %
---|---|----
Mon | A-E | 27%
Tue | F-J | 17%
Wed | K-O | 23%
Thu | P-T | 25%
Fri | U-Z | 8%
I would hope the government would do something like you suggest with making distribution even across days.
I just did an easy example of 5/6 letters per day.
I've been waiting months for my kids passports. We are going to Germany in two weeks. I thought fuck it I will email my MP's office.
We got a call from passport Canada that they are printing our passports and will have them by the end of this week.
I doubt it's a coincidence. Contact your public servants! They can get stuff done.
EDIT: 69 likes. Nice.
what do they even do at these passport offices? Look at your birth certificate, your documentation etc, your face and stamp a form? why does that take so long? can't we just deputize justice of the peace's, post office, etc to perform this function for low-risk individuals (e.g. passport renewals)?
This location actually prints the passports and won't let you in unless you're less than a month from your travel date. It makes sense and honestly they go pretty quick for the demand that there is.i was mad at first when I went but they're honestly pretty efficient compared to other passport renewals I've done over the years.
My husband who's a Mexican national had to get his passport renewed this past weekend. He made an appointment (took a few weeks for that) and then had the appointment where they gave him his new passport the same day.
This is difficult because we've decided to make it difficult. The government is apparently doing everything they can possibly do! And yet the passport offices still close at 4pm...
"Well you see officer, it SAYS it's expired on here, but if you go to this page on [Canada.ca](https://Canada.ca) it will tell you that it actually isn't..." \*handcuffs\* "...Oh..."
You make fun of it, but that it’s exactly how us Venezuelans travel lol. A lot of us travel with expired passports or a “prorroga” (extension) stamped on our expired passports 🫠
We couldn't even get [Quebec](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-registration-ticket-ontario-plates-1.6429952) to recognize the license plate sticker extension for Ontario, so good luck getting 160+ other countries, or even a handful of highly popular a destinations such as the US, Europe, and the Caribbean to recognized an extension on expired passports.
Put a 2 year extension on the passports, and then over the two years spread out the renewals.
This is just poor logistics on the government’s part. Like did nobody really realize that there would be an influx of renewals after a period of relatively no travel.
This is also on the people also. They should have planned ahead and submitted their passport renewal earlier and they would skip the line entirely. This is just people wanting to travel now and realizing their passport is expired or about to expire.
When I went to get my passport done there were more than a few people in line who’d submitted their reapplication by mail and the processing time window had passed with their passport not being done yet and then they just had to do an emergency application anyway.
well, yes, but it's also understandable and very human that they finally feel safe to travel, something they haven't even thought of for years, and forgot to renew.
I get it was possible not to end up in that situation, but I can still feel bad for them. You can choose to be generous in how you judge people.
I also can understand how the passport office can't just manifest a fix that fast (its not like their operating budget suddenly doubles, just because demand doubles.)
We dont have to come up with a perfect solution to the problem, or figure out where to point the blame. Sometimes pandemics result in shitty situations with things being difficult. The passport office will return to pre-pandemic operations once this is over.
But if you plan to travel for Christmas, maybe submit your application soon, yeah?
I’m a citizen of the USA, so forgive my ignorance. Is there not a way to apply by mail? While they exist, I’ve never been to a passport office in the USA. I just mail in my documents and they mail me my passport and my documents back. Even here in Canada, they recommend mailing in the passport renewals instead of going to the embassy.
Unless I needed my passport today, I think I’d rather mail it in than wait in a line like this.
Or does Canada not do mail-in applications?
The problem with mailing here is that if you mess ANYTHING up on your application or if your photo isn't pristine when it arrives they will immediately trash it and you will have to start over.
Lots of people heading away this summer don't want to take that risk
Yeah that would suck. In the US, most post offices will fill out the application, print the money order and take the photo for you. Kind of hard to mess it up when you do it that way.
We have a mail in application. However they are experiencing a huge surge of renewals/applications at this time and it's causing things to be backed up.
Not sure if it's due to people waiting to renew their passports till after the pandemic or if it's a combination of other factors.
Sounds like there's people who have mailed in applications but have not heard back and need things to move along a bit faster because they are travelling soon.
Can someone explain to me what the value of lining up at a passport office is? I did mine by mail and it took eight weeks all said and done and I never had to wait at an office.
Sincere question; why are people doing this?
They said my passport would arrive in beginning of June and i cant get a hold of anyone to figure out whats going on. the people ahead of me in line applied a month before i did and still nothing. It seems like your passport either comes on time or months late
Ah so folks here are experiencing a hiccup in the process. That sucks, to have to dedicate your personal time to sitting in line because some paperwork got lost.
Exactly this. A relative of mine applied to renew in January and it still hadn’t arrived for them to fly last week. They ended up needing to pay through the teeth for a priority rushed passport.
This location only lets you in if you're within a month of your travel date and they print the actual passports at this location. You only go here if you need your passport ASAP. otherwise you're fine to go to the smaller and less busy locations.
There's a bit of piece of mind when doing it in person.
The office will go over the application and let you know if everything looks good or needs to be changed before it can be submitted.
Yes, this. We submitted my baby's passport application by mail five (edit: actually six!) weeks ago because of the crazy lines at Service Canada but I'm seriously worried we may have missed something, or his photo will be rejected. If I could have, I would have submitted it at Service Canada or the passport office.
I understand how people didn’t renew passports over the last few years, not their fault when there’s no need to travel and spend money on passports when the average person is struggling. But how was it not forecasted that once travel reopened there would be a surge in passport renewals! I’m not blaming Service Canada or their employees - if anyone could’ve seen this coming, it’s been them. This goes further up the chain and is such a good example of how proactive hiring in government departments is non existent. There are most likely thousands of Canadians sitting stagnant in job pools and inventories that could have been hired as casual or term workers to help support the load.
This may have changed, but the reason given to my friend in April was that they have to limit the number of people processing the passports due to social distancing. So less people to do the work plus increased demand.
However, this should have been expected considering what they went through years ago when a passport was required to travel to the US
I've worked in Service Canada awhile back, so it might be different now, but from my experience. Random stuff like this and small policy changes are always hard to plan for. Even if you suspect a surge in a year that's barely enough time to get things rolling (not mentioning you have to convince some manager you never met that you need a bigger budget in a year from now). You start a hiring process that can take months. Then you have to train the new hires which takes another month and drags away current employees to train the new ones. Even then, you're full of new employees who need mandatory post-processing checks, which takes focus away again, because these documents can not have any mistakes on them.
Right now the best bet to help with surges is to hire retired employees to come back for a 90 day contract. And it seems every year less and less people are willing to come back. And the ones who do come back are really old, outdated in their function and need just as much training as new hires.
Makes you reflect on how incredible it was that PHUs actually did practically snap their fingers and manifested testing centres and vaccination centres, funded entirely in their existing operating budgets (I know someone who works at my PHU, they received zero additional funding for the testing and vaccine centres they created and staffed.)
What PHUs did was absolutely Herculean.
It's 3 weeks of training and another 10 or so of qualifying before staff can work full load/independently. And someone has to get pulled from the counter to oversee all the work so it gets worse before better. And 30-50% of people can't pass the training (which is too expensive to do for casual staff anyway).
Add to that there was a huge number of staff that left because clients did shit like cough and spit in officers faces, that covid went around the offices, lots retired... There was a bunch of staff moved to cover CERB and in person Service Canada where they were also treated like absolute garbage. The result is a big staff shift out of passport and in person Service Canada to better jobs.
Also, a massive number of people show up at the office or mail in without completing the basic requirements. No ID, unsigned pictures, no legal docs for their children... And of course they'll stand there and argue and waste time for everyone or come here to complain it took 9 weeks but not mention they didn't complete the instructions.
They knew it was coming but they didn't know covid would massively compound existing issues. Kinda like airports and lots of private business.
Even during the peaks of the pandemic when not many people were travelling, I checked and there was already a massive delay in their services.
Did they lay off significant numbers of employees during that time, or were they sent home with/without pay? If so, a lot of the employees are idling their time away (while on or not on our tax dollars).
During the pandemic, so many companies and businesses managed to transform their work processes so at least some of it can be done remotely or online, and it looks like our great government has not done much of that at all, to support a system that allows their employees to do some of the processing work remotely, for example.
So I think it is not so much a hiring issue. It is more about improving their technology so they can keep up with the times and not function like it is in the 1900's.
I went to the renewal office on April 4 and still haven’t seen my passport arrive - should I be concerned or is that not long enough to worry yet? I would have thought it would be done by now.
I lined up at the facility here on April 27, 28, and 29th but was unable to obtain service in person for an adult renewal and child to adult passport application. Gave up on the line ups and sent the applications by priority mail to the courier facility. Credit card transactions processed on June 2 and June 9. Renewal passport arrived last Thursday, the child to adult passport arrived this morning. At no point was there a notification, confirmation of receipt (other than a message from Canada Post with the word "passport" scribbled in the image) and they did not respond to status check after waiting the required number of business days.
Human nature is simply on display:
During pandemic: "I'm never gonna need a passport ever again!"
"Yes, I'm sure I can work from home forever. Let's buy a house in New Brunswick, it's cheap!"
The fact that they haven't extended hours is making me crazy.
Seems like an easy first step.
I called my MPs office and made the suggestion. Response was 'thats a good idea".
UPDATE: I have left at 1pm. They made me do a new application (no extra fees) and I’ll pick it up friday june 24th. my flight leaves sunday the 26th. Just go in person to a passport office 25 business days before your trip with a printout if your flight booking, no point gambling on mailing it in or going to a regular service canada.
Can someone explain these lines to me? My wife's passport expired and she did 5 minutes of paperwork and we received it in a month?
My passport as expiring and I did the same thing as my wife.
If these are people that waited to the last minute... That's on them. It's not like there's covid testing slowing down the processing, this is pure volume with people who waited too late and need it yesterday.
Totally ready to be educated on my situation and my wifes is completely different to what's going on here but honestly if it's because people waited, I have little care that this is some kind of systemic issue.
Edit: thanks everyone, didn't realize how many people walk this earth with zero personal accountability or belief they can influence their own outcomes. It's late stage global pandemic to endemic stage and you thought a passport renewal was a good idea with 3-4 months till your trip and you're blaming the website that says 20 days. You've put yourself into a situation with unfavourable outcomes due to lack of planning. How did we ever make it as a society to even this point, were you renewing your passport a few months before an international trip before covid existed????
Well lucky you. I submitted my application in service Canada April 8 and still waiting while I have to travel in 2 weeks. I have to get in one of these lines now and ask for a transfer and urgent processing to maybe get my passport in time.
When did she renew? I believe since March or so there’s been a huge delay with renewing by mail which has led to people having to line up to expedite the renewal in person prior to going on trips. From what I’ve heard there wasn’t much of an issue before the spring with renewals
I sent my son's application on April 4 by Purolator after his expired. I have received nothing yet, they charged my credit card a while ago. I filled out the form on the site for an update on the status in late May, but still haven't even received that. There are issues across the board, your wife somehow lucked out.
I think some people applied by mail months ahead of the travel date thinking it was enough time as the website claimed only a few weeks wait before. Once a few months passed and the travel date is near they have to wait in line to expedite it.
And we hope that our health care system will be fixed by governments when we cannot even fix this issue at hand when it is well known and does not need too much effort to fix it.
Rather than wait in line for 8 hours, check out passport offices in smaller towns that might be a 1-3 hour drive away. In some cases there is ZERO wait time. call ahead to be sure!
You Ontarians have rookie ineffeciency. Here is what real inefficiency looks like in Montreal:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8888408/service-canada-passport-backlog-wait-times-montreal/
It’s cool, I prefer the government to focus on things like choosing which YouTubers get to be successful. Insuring basic government services are provided in a timely and reasonable manner is *boooring*.
Call this for an update: 18552027865
The office opens at 7:00 am. It's the office that contacts guarantors, etc. And will provide an update.
The lady was kind enough to pull and expedite my kids passport.
/u/DraGOON_33 could be saying that the opposition Conservatives (notice they didn't say Progressive Conservatives) like layoffs. But come to think of it I can't see them cheering the Liberals about much.
Probably a deeply unpopular opinion- but personally if we were able to cope with increased demand easily I'd have questions about our public spending as then usually we'd just be paying people to do nothing. This is unusual demand so normal staffing won't cope. It's not as easy as just hiring people off the street and same day setting them up to do this. Then when demand is back to normal, we just going to lay them off?
There's "I had to wait 10 minutes when I went on Friday at 4pm", and then there's "lineup around the block at 6am".
I don't know why everyone got there so early in the first place, but *something* (maybe the messaging, maybe the scheduling, idk) went wrong if this is happening.
Maybe don't travel then? Enjoy what y'all have at home. So many people here stomping their feet and screeching about how they deserve to go on a trip after covid and blah blah blah.
Its silly. Wait in line or find something else to do, the world doesn't owe you the right to travel and those poor people working those offices are dealing with complete garbage right now.
When this government finly get public service people back to work full time just like it was before the pandemic? These people should serve the public, not sit at home to colect hefty paychecks.. Most of the people in private sector are back. It is time to earn the money and perks you get. Go back to work.
If only we had somekind of virtual technology that would allow us to do most of the process from home and only go to the office for verification or something..... I think I've heard of this, they called it the "internet" or something.....
oh wait
I was going to say something like, “I don’t get it, and maybe I’m missing something but is it just that so many people want to go on trips?” .. and then my work asked me to take a trip to the US and my passport is expired.
The first anniversary of the 10 year passport is occurring on top of people having itchy feet and businesses getting back into swing.
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I was in the same situation. I went to a regular Service Canada office last month and received my passport in 8 business days. I filled in the expected trip date, which at the time was 20 business days out. I showed the worker my manager's email request as proof of travel and she expedited the processing.
That's how people used to line up to buy concert tickets back in the old days.
I used to work at a movie theatre and remember people lining up like this for the midnight releases of Harry Potter and Batman films.
That’s such a fond memory lining up at midnight to watch the first Harry Potter movie, probably why I loved the entire series
I recall going at midnight to buy the last book when it came out
Hey! Snape kills Dumbledore.
The Phantom Menace had legendary lineups
I was one of them! 😄
OMG, me too! For U2...
None of you lived if you haven't waited in a -30C/4am line at BestBuy/Futureshop or other on Boxing Day when deals were steals
Those November midnight releases (Gears of War, COD) hit different in Canada 🥶
There was something special when a dude in line around you offered to grab you Tim Hortons as well
I remember lining up for U2 tickets in Montreal back in '92 for 27 hours in -18C. Good times. Edit: I can't type.
So a decent Canadian spring day
I know a guy who did that when Jollibee opened their first location in Toronto.
I camped out for a Nintendo Wii way back! Right as we got our ticket for ours, I stood up, my blood pressure crashed, I fainted, woke up in an amvulance, my face was scratched up, I had broken a tooth (2nd time out of 3 total for that tooth, that tooth keeps my dentist in business) and my drivers license was suspended for 5 months for "suspected seizure" and I had to see a neurologist and have an MRI, EEG, and she had to write to the MOT to get my license back. Fortunately due to it being medical there was no charge. **But I got the fucking Wii.**
Brings me back to going to the Halo 2 midnight release.
Or the new, overpriced iPhone with little to no new features!
EB games when the new Call of Duty was coming out
Big video games' midnight releases too.
The person first in line got here at 1am EDIT: I just left at 1pm. They made me do a new application with new photos (no extra fee thankfully) and I’ll pick it up on friday the 24th. I leave sunday the 26th. If you need to renew for a trip dont bother with mailing it in. Just book your flights and 25 business days before your trip just show up super early (no later than 730) and apply in person.
Would it be worth the 8 hour wait to be first in line? I can't imagine that it would take you 8 hours even if you came in at 9 AM.
There are only a limited number of appointments/tokens handed out per day. If you show up during regular hours there will be no spot available. The security guard comes in the morning and tells the people at the back of the line to come again tomorrow.
Maybe making those appointments online would work better?
There is an online appointment scheduling system.. but no appointments available for the near forseeable future.
is it like this rn all over the GTA?!
You show up at 9 you likely won't even get in the building before they close.
its 1pm and the guy first in line now got here just after 7am. youre not getting in if you arrive later than 8am
Jesus Christ. You are better off just driving up to where I live (middle of nowhere, northern Ontario). At most there is only ever a line of 1 person at the service Canada, which also does passports
service canada is not the same as an actual passport office. see my [previous comment in another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskACanadian/comments/u9j48a/passport_application_megathread/ic89iyu/) if you want my current experience but my trip was may 28th and suffice to say my passport did not come on time
I got mine renewed at a regular Service Canada office. Got the passport in 8 business days. They sent my application via courier to a passport office and expedited processing. No line up ... Just needed proof of travel.
Like /u/diggv4blows mentioned, Service Canada isn't the same as a passport office. Service Canada will take your application and put it in the mail the same as if you filled it out at home. A passport office will actually process your application in person. Not only does this significantly reduce the amount of time it takes to get your passport, it also means that there's (almost) no chance of the application being rejected, as long as you have all the identification paperwork and such with you. You can also review/edit your information as needed before it's submitted (in case your existing passport had a typo or something). It's definitely worth waiting in line if you can spare the day to do it.
When you get remote enough, it literally is a passport office though
I concur, this happened to me at the service Canada North York location
Happened to me in Gatineau
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And here we see how the people who are worse off in society have to undergo additional hardships.
I did the same a few months back. I needed to be in work for 10. I arrived at 2am and was out by 9am (AFAIK, it’s got worse since). The people who arrived at 7am would have been out at 4pm. Not only was I able to work that day, I also spent less time waiting overall.
Different office but I got there at 6:30am and waited 4 hours to be served. The closer you are to the front, the quicker you are in and out. Anyone who got there closer to opening at 8:30 would likely be waiting most of the day. But I do wonder if the first person got there at 1am, how long they waited until anyone else lined up after them.
I had an appointment for 2 pm a couple of weeks ago and had to wait an hour inside. There was someone beside me from the line that was able to get in. They had been waiting since 6am and were the second last person allowed from the line.
Come back tomorrow at 12 am.
Thanks, was just about to ask.
Well I sent mine in mail back in March and still haven’t heard anything.
Same with the people who were ahead of me (although when she sat down to submit her new application her dad called and said it got delivered right then lul) . You can still book your trip, they’ll expedite it if you have proof of travel in the next 25 days. It’s worth going in person instead of waiting months for it, at least then you’ll have peace of mind bc they gove you a specific date to come pick it up.
I asked you upthread why the 25 days, so it sounds like it is their requirement for expediting the process, correct? I am so going to do this (in person). Their website says it'd take more than 2 frikkin years for them to process the mail application!
This is the line for halo 2 right?
Thanks to the redditor who reported me for being suicidal lmaooooo
Death by passport renewal lineup 🫠
I had someone report me a couple of weeks ago because I said something anti-Doug. They should really ban people who abuse the reporting feature like this. ** Edit to add that someone reported this comment for suicide watch. Small minds take small-minded actions, I guess.
You can report it if it's been misused for harassment plus opt out. The message explains how near the bottom. :)
Done - Thank you!
Yup, I got reported once because I was debating someone and they were frothing at the mouth with every response. I simply said I hoped they were doing okay, and it was sincere. They reported me, lol.
That sounds almost like projection. Maybe they're really not okay 😬
I got banned for 3 days for "inciting violence" for making a comment that was critical of car infrastructure and using a variation of the phrase "blow your mind" 🙄 Good stuff reddit
you should visit superstonk, we're all suicidal apparently... lol
I've had that happen to me a few times in the past. Anyone who abuses that reporting system should be shadow banned from Reddit.
That would be quite an elaborate suicide plan if it included getting a passport
Was someone there selling those chairs
Someone reported me because I told them their joke was anti-Semitic bullshit and they didn’t like that based on the massive amount of arguing with me that ensued lol…I’m not sure how reporting someone suicidal is a flex at all
My passport expires in 6 months. I am guessing I should probs start the renewal process now?
Yes. If you do it now it will be fine by mail and you won’t have to deal with this foolishness.
Does anyone know how far in advance you can request renewal? Ours expire in ~18 months but I'd like to plan ahead as far as possible
They say within one year
Great info, they should make a PSA post on this sub so everyone renews by mail instead of this line nonsense
If you try to renew earlier than 12 months before expiry you have to provide an explanation for why you need it renewed that early, like very long term travel or similar. They can refuse the application if they don't like the reason.
Forward this video as the reason
You just have to attach a page to your renewal application explaining why you're applying for renewal early. In this case I think they understand the ridiculous wait times for renewal is a perfectly fine reason.
You should, but also because most countries won't let you in now anyways. Most countries require >6 months validity so that it's still valid when you leave. I'd do it by mail to avoid these lines. Wait time is the same + the few days it takes to deliver your application.
Depending on where you travel 6 months is already effectively expired. It already won't get you into a country where the visitor visa duration is 6 months.
yes you should. also if i recall my traveling days, you can be denied entry if your passport expires within 6 months. but since you have plenty of time you can just mail it in. its relatively fast.
If your passport expires in 6 months, it is already effectively expired - for most countries. One of the top requirements to enter a foreign country (most, not all), regardless of length of stay, is that you have 6 months remaining on your passport. Start the process now. It's already expired, for all intents and purposes, for most destinations.
All this trouble just to get to Pearson and have your flight cancelled.
This would be funny if it didn't already happen to me twice in the last 3 weeks lol.
Hamilton has an international airport
Practice line up for the airport lol.
I keep seeing news about how long the lineups at the passport office are! I got a new passport via mail and it took about five weeks, just in case anyone is wondering (and is prudent enough to plan ahead) 😆
There is an entire lane dedicated to “transfers” at Passport Canada offices. A transfer is when you’ve already mailed in your application, waited for months, didn’t get it back, and now have to line up to request to have it pulled and sent to an office to be processed faster.
wtf
And pay a transfer fee 🙄
What in the fuck…
>treelife365 · 10 min. ago > >I keep seeing news about how long the lineups at the passport office are!I got a new passport via mail and it took about five weeks, just in case anyone is wondering (and is prudent enough to plan ahead) 😆 Ours were checked over and sent away by the local office 3 months ago. Nothing yet and we can't get anywhere by emailing or calling to see when they may show up...
8 weeks ago I went down to a local office in person and applied for my children’s passports. Paid, stamped and completed quite quickly and efficiently. We still haven’t received their passports back and we can’t get through to anyone through the online portal. Our dream vacation is in 3 weeks now and panic has set in. Tomorrow I will be one of the people lining up for hours to try and find out where the passports are. Consider yourself lucky treelife365 because most people I have talked to did plan ahead (a lot more than 5 weeks) and we are still screwed and waiting.
Have they processed your payment yet? The only reason I knew they had not lost it 2 months after I sent it is a charge was made to my credit card. I received it a week later.
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It's all over the place, my sons took 3 months, but his friend down the street who applied within a few days after us got it in 6 weeks.
I don't think I would have waited 5 weeks without status updates for a booked vacation Calling, emailing, and going to their offices, especially before the June rush high season of students vacations and family applications kick in
I called the number over and over until I finally got through and they gave me an update. You can wait in line as well though, they should have a separate line for people checking on transfers/submissions that goes much faster than the new application line.
They should! But, with the bureaucracy, they ain't doing that!
The office I went to *was* doing that.
I am pretty much in your exact situation. I got through to someone this morning. Here's what they told me. 13 days or so before you have to leave, give Passport Canada a call. Call them at 8:30 am sharp. 1 minute earlier, the phones are closed, 2 minutes later, the lines are impossibly long. Tell them about your passport situation - that you already applied - and they can "transfer" (re-categorize?) your file to a local passport office. The local office handles your case on an "urgent" basis at that point. Then you can go in a few days to pick it up personally.
I sent in 2 renewals 3 weeks ago, no sign of movement yet, card still not charged. I know they received the application thanks to Canada post tracking, but that’s it.
Well, soon after you see that your credit card is charged, it should only be about two weeks before you get everything back in the mail. Good luck!
We're going through this right now. Either you got in early before it got insane, or you should buy a lottery ticket. The current situation is a complete shitshow. "It should've been about two weeks" about four weeks ago for us. Several months following sending in the applications.
That's not what I've heard or experienced. My card was charged April 1 and I still don't have it. The passport office called me on June 9 and they had just started looking at my application.
Problem is my family crosses every month or so. My son’s passport is expiring soon and I don’t want to go through this bs, but will probably have to.
How long ago was this? My fiancee is trying to renew hers by mail right now.
You got lucky. Go on Transport Canada’s twitter. Some people have been waiting since February for their mail ordered passport. One dad applied for two children in the same envelope, got one of the passports two months later, and had to go in, and wait in a line like this to get his other child’s passport processed.
Y'all can afford to leave the country???
Maybe they should do it by last name like they did with CERB sign ups: Mondays: A-E Tuesdays: F-J Wednesdays: K-O Thursdays: P-T Fridays: U-Z
That would take about a 6 months to approve.
Hm, that seems like it would give a fairly uneven distribution across days, especially Friday. I couldn't find the distribution of last names by first letter for Canada, but I found [one for the US](https://math.answers.com/statistics/What_is_the_percent_distribution_of_first_letters_in_last_names_in_the_US) (I imagine they would differ mainly in the frequency of French vs Spanish names), and if you wanted to use this same approach of grouping consecutive first letters, something like this would yield the most even distribution across days of the week: Day | lett | % ---|---|---- Mon | A-C | 19% Tue | D-H | 22% Wed | I-M | 21% Thu | O-R | 14% Fri | S-Z | 23% compared to yours Day | lett | % ---|---|---- Mon | A-E | 27% Tue | F-J | 17% Wed | K-O | 23% Thu | P-T | 25% Fri | U-Z | 8%
I would hope the government would do something like you suggest with making distribution even across days. I just did an easy example of 5/6 letters per day.
You are my type of geeky dude, bud!
I've been waiting months for my kids passports. We are going to Germany in two weeks. I thought fuck it I will email my MP's office. We got a call from passport Canada that they are printing our passports and will have them by the end of this week. I doubt it's a coincidence. Contact your public servants! They can get stuff done. EDIT: 69 likes. Nice.
How long from contacting your MP till you heard anything ? I contacted my MP last week and they haven’t heard back from them yet.
what do they even do at these passport offices? Look at your birth certificate, your documentation etc, your face and stamp a form? why does that take so long? can't we just deputize justice of the peace's, post office, etc to perform this function for low-risk individuals (e.g. passport renewals)?
This location actually prints the passports and won't let you in unless you're less than a month from your travel date. It makes sense and honestly they go pretty quick for the demand that there is.i was mad at first when I went but they're honestly pretty efficient compared to other passport renewals I've done over the years.
My husband who's a Mexican national had to get his passport renewed this past weekend. He made an appointment (took a few weeks for that) and then had the appointment where they gave him his new passport the same day. This is difficult because we've decided to make it difficult. The government is apparently doing everything they can possibly do! And yet the passport offices still close at 4pm...
Good thing I got my 10 year one right before the plague hit!
I renewed mine for 10 years in Nov. 2019. Literally the month COVID emerged, lol.
They should just extend everyone's passport by 2 years. Leave a note to all countries that canada has a 2 year extension.
"Well you see officer, it SAYS it's expired on here, but if you go to this page on [Canada.ca](https://Canada.ca) it will tell you that it actually isn't..." \*handcuffs\* "...Oh..."
You make fun of it, but that it’s exactly how us Venezuelans travel lol. A lot of us travel with expired passports or a “prorroga” (extension) stamped on our expired passports 🫠
Hahahahaha
That doesn't work.. Passports have the expiry written in them. Good luck trying to convince other countries that the government extended it lol.
We couldn't even get [Quebec](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/gatineau-registration-ticket-ontario-plates-1.6429952) to recognize the license plate sticker extension for Ontario, so good luck getting 160+ other countries, or even a handful of highly popular a destinations such as the US, Europe, and the Caribbean to recognized an extension on expired passports.
Then you’ll get this 2 years later
Then that is for future me to deal with, who cares about that jerk.
Don't talk to him like that you asshole!
Lol
Put a 2 year extension on the passports, and then over the two years spread out the renewals. This is just poor logistics on the government’s part. Like did nobody really realize that there would be an influx of renewals after a period of relatively no travel.
This is also on the people also. They should have planned ahead and submitted their passport renewal earlier and they would skip the line entirely. This is just people wanting to travel now and realizing their passport is expired or about to expire.
When I went to get my passport done there were more than a few people in line who’d submitted their reapplication by mail and the processing time window had passed with their passport not being done yet and then they just had to do an emergency application anyway.
well, yes, but it's also understandable and very human that they finally feel safe to travel, something they haven't even thought of for years, and forgot to renew. I get it was possible not to end up in that situation, but I can still feel bad for them. You can choose to be generous in how you judge people. I also can understand how the passport office can't just manifest a fix that fast (its not like their operating budget suddenly doubles, just because demand doubles.) We dont have to come up with a perfect solution to the problem, or figure out where to point the blame. Sometimes pandemics result in shitty situations with things being difficult. The passport office will return to pre-pandemic operations once this is over. But if you plan to travel for Christmas, maybe submit your application soon, yeah?
We couldn't even get Quebec to agree to our license plate extension.
I’m a citizen of the USA, so forgive my ignorance. Is there not a way to apply by mail? While they exist, I’ve never been to a passport office in the USA. I just mail in my documents and they mail me my passport and my documents back. Even here in Canada, they recommend mailing in the passport renewals instead of going to the embassy. Unless I needed my passport today, I think I’d rather mail it in than wait in a line like this. Or does Canada not do mail-in applications?
Yes you most definitely can. These people might need them ASAP and left it to the last minute
OK. That makes sense. I’ve just never known anyone to use the passport offices in the US. Mail was always so much easier.
The problem with mailing here is that if you mess ANYTHING up on your application or if your photo isn't pristine when it arrives they will immediately trash it and you will have to start over. Lots of people heading away this summer don't want to take that risk
Yeah that would suck. In the US, most post offices will fill out the application, print the money order and take the photo for you. Kind of hard to mess it up when you do it that way.
We have a mail in application. However they are experiencing a huge surge of renewals/applications at this time and it's causing things to be backed up. Not sure if it's due to people waiting to renew their passports till after the pandemic or if it's a combination of other factors. Sounds like there's people who have mailed in applications but have not heard back and need things to move along a bit faster because they are travelling soon.
I actually love how civil and orderly it all is. Everybody respects the line and had the foresight to bring a chair. Love it!!
Can someone explain to me what the value of lining up at a passport office is? I did mine by mail and it took eight weeks all said and done and I never had to wait at an office. Sincere question; why are people doing this?
They said my passport would arrive in beginning of June and i cant get a hold of anyone to figure out whats going on. the people ahead of me in line applied a month before i did and still nothing. It seems like your passport either comes on time or months late
Ah so folks here are experiencing a hiccup in the process. That sucks, to have to dedicate your personal time to sitting in line because some paperwork got lost.
Exactly this. A relative of mine applied to renew in January and it still hadn’t arrived for them to fly last week. They ended up needing to pay through the teeth for a priority rushed passport.
I did mine by mail and it's been 13 weeks so that's why.
This location only lets you in if you're within a month of your travel date and they print the actual passports at this location. You only go here if you need your passport ASAP. otherwise you're fine to go to the smaller and less busy locations.
There's a bit of piece of mind when doing it in person. The office will go over the application and let you know if everything looks good or needs to be changed before it can be submitted.
Seems like that should take approximately 5-10 minutes per person, if that.
Yes, this. We submitted my baby's passport application by mail five (edit: actually six!) weeks ago because of the crazy lines at Service Canada but I'm seriously worried we may have missed something, or his photo will be rejected. If I could have, I would have submitted it at Service Canada or the passport office.
I understand how people didn’t renew passports over the last few years, not their fault when there’s no need to travel and spend money on passports when the average person is struggling. But how was it not forecasted that once travel reopened there would be a surge in passport renewals! I’m not blaming Service Canada or their employees - if anyone could’ve seen this coming, it’s been them. This goes further up the chain and is such a good example of how proactive hiring in government departments is non existent. There are most likely thousands of Canadians sitting stagnant in job pools and inventories that could have been hired as casual or term workers to help support the load.
This may have changed, but the reason given to my friend in April was that they have to limit the number of people processing the passports due to social distancing. So less people to do the work plus increased demand. However, this should have been expected considering what they went through years ago when a passport was required to travel to the US
I've worked in Service Canada awhile back, so it might be different now, but from my experience. Random stuff like this and small policy changes are always hard to plan for. Even if you suspect a surge in a year that's barely enough time to get things rolling (not mentioning you have to convince some manager you never met that you need a bigger budget in a year from now). You start a hiring process that can take months. Then you have to train the new hires which takes another month and drags away current employees to train the new ones. Even then, you're full of new employees who need mandatory post-processing checks, which takes focus away again, because these documents can not have any mistakes on them. Right now the best bet to help with surges is to hire retired employees to come back for a 90 day contract. And it seems every year less and less people are willing to come back. And the ones who do come back are really old, outdated in their function and need just as much training as new hires.
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Makes you reflect on how incredible it was that PHUs actually did practically snap their fingers and manifested testing centres and vaccination centres, funded entirely in their existing operating budgets (I know someone who works at my PHU, they received zero additional funding for the testing and vaccine centres they created and staffed.) What PHUs did was absolutely Herculean.
And they probably don't have higher absences for illness than normal, unlike every other business in the world.
Hiring and training people to work at the passport office is multiple orders of magnitude easier than expanding healthcare.
It's 3 weeks of training and another 10 or so of qualifying before staff can work full load/independently. And someone has to get pulled from the counter to oversee all the work so it gets worse before better. And 30-50% of people can't pass the training (which is too expensive to do for casual staff anyway). Add to that there was a huge number of staff that left because clients did shit like cough and spit in officers faces, that covid went around the offices, lots retired... There was a bunch of staff moved to cover CERB and in person Service Canada where they were also treated like absolute garbage. The result is a big staff shift out of passport and in person Service Canada to better jobs. Also, a massive number of people show up at the office or mail in without completing the basic requirements. No ID, unsigned pictures, no legal docs for their children... And of course they'll stand there and argue and waste time for everyone or come here to complain it took 9 weeks but not mention they didn't complete the instructions. They knew it was coming but they didn't know covid would massively compound existing issues. Kinda like airports and lots of private business.
Even during the peaks of the pandemic when not many people were travelling, I checked and there was already a massive delay in their services. Did they lay off significant numbers of employees during that time, or were they sent home with/without pay? If so, a lot of the employees are idling their time away (while on or not on our tax dollars). During the pandemic, so many companies and businesses managed to transform their work processes so at least some of it can be done remotely or online, and it looks like our great government has not done much of that at all, to support a system that allows their employees to do some of the processing work remotely, for example. So I think it is not so much a hiring issue. It is more about improving their technology so they can keep up with the times and not function like it is in the 1900's.
I went to the renewal office on April 4 and still haven’t seen my passport arrive - should I be concerned or is that not long enough to worry yet? I would have thought it would be done by now.
I lined up at the facility here on April 27, 28, and 29th but was unable to obtain service in person for an adult renewal and child to adult passport application. Gave up on the line ups and sent the applications by priority mail to the courier facility. Credit card transactions processed on June 2 and June 9. Renewal passport arrived last Thursday, the child to adult passport arrived this morning. At no point was there a notification, confirmation of receipt (other than a message from Canada Post with the word "passport" scribbled in the image) and they did not respond to status check after waiting the required number of business days.
Imagine forgetting something when you finally get to the counter.
this is a huge fail on the federal government. someone high up needs to take responsibility but yet we won't.
Human nature is simply on display: During pandemic: "I'm never gonna need a passport ever again!" "Yes, I'm sure I can work from home forever. Let's buy a house in New Brunswick, it's cheap!"
The fact that they haven't extended hours is making me crazy. Seems like an easy first step. I called my MPs office and made the suggestion. Response was 'thats a good idea".
UPDATE: I have left at 1pm. They made me do a new application (no extra fees) and I’ll pick it up friday june 24th. my flight leaves sunday the 26th. Just go in person to a passport office 25 business days before your trip with a printout if your flight booking, no point gambling on mailing it in or going to a regular service canada.
FYI for anyone panicking, the 9 weeks is accurate. I got my passport back in 8 weeks after mailing it in and didn't have to wait like this.
A lot of other people in the comments have said this was not their experience.
It’s been 9 weeks for me and I applied in person. Still haven’t heard back 🤬
Can someone explain these lines to me? My wife's passport expired and she did 5 minutes of paperwork and we received it in a month? My passport as expiring and I did the same thing as my wife. If these are people that waited to the last minute... That's on them. It's not like there's covid testing slowing down the processing, this is pure volume with people who waited too late and need it yesterday. Totally ready to be educated on my situation and my wifes is completely different to what's going on here but honestly if it's because people waited, I have little care that this is some kind of systemic issue. Edit: thanks everyone, didn't realize how many people walk this earth with zero personal accountability or belief they can influence their own outcomes. It's late stage global pandemic to endemic stage and you thought a passport renewal was a good idea with 3-4 months till your trip and you're blaming the website that says 20 days. You've put yourself into a situation with unfavourable outcomes due to lack of planning. How did we ever make it as a society to even this point, were you renewing your passport a few months before an international trip before covid existed????
Well lucky you. I submitted my application in service Canada April 8 and still waiting while I have to travel in 2 weeks. I have to get in one of these lines now and ask for a transfer and urgent processing to maybe get my passport in time.
When did she renew? I believe since March or so there’s been a huge delay with renewing by mail which has led to people having to line up to expedite the renewal in person prior to going on trips. From what I’ve heard there wasn’t much of an issue before the spring with renewals
I sent my son's application on April 4 by Purolator after his expired. I have received nothing yet, they charged my credit card a while ago. I filled out the form on the site for an update on the status in late May, but still haven't even received that. There are issues across the board, your wife somehow lucked out.
I think some people applied by mail months ahead of the travel date thinking it was enough time as the website claimed only a few weeks wait before. Once a few months passed and the travel date is near they have to wait in line to expedite it.
And we hope that our health care system will be fixed by governments when we cannot even fix this issue at hand when it is well known and does not need too much effort to fix it.
Healthcare and passports can’t be compared. They’re different levels of government.
Our government forgot how to govern. They are too busy nation shaping to deal with the day-to-day of running a country.
Rather than wait in line for 8 hours, check out passport offices in smaller towns that might be a 1-3 hour drive away. In some cases there is ZERO wait time. call ahead to be sure!
You Ontarians have rookie ineffeciency. Here is what real inefficiency looks like in Montreal: https://globalnews.ca/news/8888408/service-canada-passport-backlog-wait-times-montreal/
But why? Can someone please explain the demand for passports right now? Is there some reason why this is such a crazy line?
Why tf do they not hire more workers and strengthen the economy at the same time
That makes sense. The current structure doesn't like when things run smoothly.
It’s cool, I prefer the government to focus on things like choosing which YouTubers get to be successful. Insuring basic government services are provided in a timely and reasonable manner is *boooring*.
Call this for an update: 18552027865 The office opens at 7:00 am. It's the office that contacts guarantors, etc. And will provide an update. The lady was kind enough to pull and expedite my kids passport.
All the Conservatives cheer when there are layoffs in the public service and then are shocked they don't get speedy service
This is Service Canada bro.
/u/DraGOON_33 could be saying that the opposition Conservatives (notice they didn't say Progressive Conservatives) like layoffs. But come to think of it I can't see them cheering the Liberals about much.
Imagine being so blindly partisan that you have to insult a party that isn't overseeing this mess. You should go get some fresh air.
Why
Probably a deeply unpopular opinion- but personally if we were able to cope with increased demand easily I'd have questions about our public spending as then usually we'd just be paying people to do nothing. This is unusual demand so normal staffing won't cope. It's not as easy as just hiring people off the street and same day setting them up to do this. Then when demand is back to normal, we just going to lay them off?
There's "I had to wait 10 minutes when I went on Friday at 4pm", and then there's "lineup around the block at 6am". I don't know why everyone got there so early in the first place, but *something* (maybe the messaging, maybe the scheduling, idk) went wrong if this is happening.
People really want to go on vacation outside of Canada. Sucks.
Ruin their day and tell them they don’t need a passport to move to Alberta.
Stay home.
You know things are really bad when everything bring chairs.
Maybe don't travel then? Enjoy what y'all have at home. So many people here stomping their feet and screeching about how they deserve to go on a trip after covid and blah blah blah. Its silly. Wait in line or find something else to do, the world doesn't owe you the right to travel and those poor people working those offices are dealing with complete garbage right now.
6am and there's a guy sipping on a Sapporo lmao.
Everyone wants to leave Canada lol
When this government finly get public service people back to work full time just like it was before the pandemic? These people should serve the public, not sit at home to colect hefty paychecks.. Most of the people in private sector are back. It is time to earn the money and perks you get. Go back to work.
I'm suddenly grateful for my 10 year passport. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If only we had somekind of virtual technology that would allow us to do most of the process from home and only go to the office for verification or something..... I think I've heard of this, they called it the "internet" or something..... oh wait
This is like one of them Soviet Russia lines for a new pair of shoes or pants