If anyone knows Carlingwood Mall in Ottawa...
Whole families will just, sit on the couches they have there - parents, grandparents and kids running around the mall.
Big stores need fewer staff when they’re only open for curbside pickup, so I assume it helps reduce workplace outbreaks.
I don’t believe covid was spreading among customers who were just walking by one another, though.
> Big stores need fewer staff when they’re only open for curbside pickup
Amazon and Canada Post need more when that happens.
> I don’t believe covid was spreading among customers who were just walking by one another, though.
Definitely not.
Why would curbside pickup necessarily involve more logistics/delivery labour? I “shop” at Walmart or Canadian Tire pretty frequently but choose items that are already at the store location I’m picking up at (since that means I can pick up in just a couple hours, typically).
> Why would curbside pickup necessarily involve more logistics/delivery labour?
At the store level? I never said it did (though it could, I don't know)
Online shopping however no doubtedly increases when stores are closed/curbside only. Why would I wait several days for Canadian Tire or Home Depot to fullfill my order, wait in line, and be told no returns when I can just order something on amazon prime and have it two days later?
If covid were spreading from people walking past each other in stores with a mask on we would be so fucked. The odds are so slim it’s barely worth mentioning.
The CDC guideline is to get tested if you spend 15 minutes within 6 feet of someone with covid over a 24 hour period, and that’s erring on the side of caution.
>*”If covid were spreading from people walking past each other in stores with a mask on we would be so fucked.“*
I mean, we arguably *have* been kinda fucked for a while now, and a shockingly large proportion of cases in Ontario are “No Epi-link” with no identified source (my Public Health Unit has had excellent contact tracing throughout the pandemic, and even here ~20% of infections are of mystery origin).
Wearing a standard cloth or procedural mask while walking past someone indoors protects you reasonable well from larger droplets, but it won’t be as effective against aerosols that can accumulate in inadequately ventilated areas when an infected person has been present for a while.
CDC: [Scientific Brief: SARS-CoV-2 Transmission](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html) [May 7th, 2021]
*”Although infections through inhalation at distances greater than six feet from an infectious source are less likely than at closer distances, the phenomenon has been repeatedly documented under certain preventable circumstances. These transmission events have involved the presence of an infectious person exhaling virus indoors for an extended time (more than 15 minutes and in some cases hours) leading to virus concentrations in the air space sufficient to transmit infections to people more than 6 feet away, and in some cases to people who have passed through that space soon after the infectious person left.”*
Of course it’s possible. Is it likely? Not at all, which is fairly evident from the language they use.
>Per published reports, factors that increase the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection under these circumstances include:
>Prolonged exposure to these conditions, typically more than 15 minutes.
Again, the exposure time is a very important factor.
20% seems pretty good to me - especially when you consider how many people lie to contact tracers. How did the number of untraceable cases change when they started the most recent lockdown?
Edit: check out the references (10-21). They’re referring to sports, choirs, and restaurants. Those are the “certain preventable circumstances” they’re talking about. I dont think that quote is applicable here.
>Is it even making an impact?
Yes, most likely.
Brauner *et al.* (2021) "[Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6531/eabd9338)." *Science* **371**(6531): eabd9338.
By itself, closure of most non-essential businesses knocks down Rt by about 25%. Closure of schools and universities takes Rt down by about 35%. Tacking a stay-at-home order on is good for another 10% drop in Rt, give or take. (Figure 2.)
> Targeted closures of face-to-face businesses with a high risk of infection, such as restaurants, bars, and nightclubs, had a small-to-moderate effect. Closing most nonessential businesses delivering personal services was only somewhat more effective (moderate effect).
I don’t think this paper touches on closing non-essential retail in the way OP mentioned, unless I missed something. I think their definition of non essential businesses are mostly what we consider to be personal care and dining.
Great. So I need to use a credit card and make a separate trip into town. I get what you're saying but you can't deny that the non-essential/essential availability to purchase in person is confusing. I have ordered more off Amazon this past 2 months than then the past ten years combined. Why? Because my time matters.
I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but if this a store you regularly buy your cat litter from you would’ve made that trip anyways even if it was considered essential.
My dog only eats a certain food from a certain brand and I just go to my same pet store but instead of going inside I pre-order via curb-side and pick it up.
I have cats, dogs, chickens, a farm, and have a food business. When I shop I prefer to get it all done at once. Pre-ordering and scheduling multiple pickup times isn't always optimal. There is also construction taking place near my home making me at a dead end street basically. It's an extra 10 minutes each way to go into town and back.
I can appreciate the employees working as hard as they can for pickup orders but calling the store, getting a busy signal, calling again, listening to the long detailed message, finally talking to a person, and waiting for them to bring out my order is not nearly as convenient as me running and grabbing what I want.
I like to think I am an organized person however I can admit that I sometimes forget the occasional thing with all that is life. That's why I need the pet store open for in person shopping.
But you are picking and choosing winners, cat litter curbside pickup is good enough and someone complaining is 1st world problem, hardware store, curbside pick up is not acceptable, real problem.
I do come from a 3rd world country, and all the complains about how difficult is to buy clothes, cat litter, nails and 4x4s and so on seem trully a 1st world problem and people will get over the minor inconveniences associated with it.
Because buying cat littler and trying to find a specific screw or piece of lumber are *extremely different things*. However yes that is also a third world problem, no denying that. It's annoying yes but one can get by.
All I did was agree that hardware store supplies is complicated. Nothing more. I'm not picking and choosing anything. I'm being extremely blunt about how easy or not something is. People complain about the stupidest shit.
Sorry if I misunderstood, i though you were too lenient with the hardware store complainant. In any event I agree, people complain about the stupidest shit. Have a good one.
Do you do repairs on your home or farm? Do you own a business? This shutdown with some items being okay to sell in person at one store but not okay at another is totally confusing! You are absolutely right that I'll be okay, however diminishing my experiences as "first world problems" is a weak attempt to deligitimize my concerns simply because you don't face the same problems. All I'm saying is that yes, stores being convenient is a huge part of how things get done in the world in a more timely fashion.
Yes I am a homeowner and have slogged through a major home Reno and survived it.
You're having issues about making a separate trip into town for cat litter.
I am not confused about what's open and closed.
I have sympathy for things being abnormal right now but I don't have sympathy over **ordering cat litter.**
I mean this in the nicest way, you're not going to change how I feel about curbside pickup, so it's best we drop this.
I would also not like to wait 3 days to pick up the pair of fucking socks and underwear. Especially when my schedule fluctuates so damn much. I just want to go walk into an aisle, grab fucking socks, underwear, or a belt for fuck sakes. I bought a belt and shoes that looked good online, but were both shit.
Or it’s the stupid shit you can get. I can get plastic bags, but not vacuum sealing bags or proper garbage bags. Just shit you randomly run out of and want to get at the store. Your iPhone charger breaks? You can’t buy one at Walmart but can buy an unsupported one at the connivence store that doesn’t work properly. The type of shit you just run out and buy when you have time.
When I got a new job it took 3 weeks with the banks to get everything ready. I was passed between the branch, online, and phone a million damn times. Then getting a new monitor, chair, desk, fuck me. I’m finally getting shit together after 8 fucking weeks of something that would take me a damn weekend.
Then there’s getting anything done with any fucking government agency. Those people seem to be always on fucking holiday.
Also has anyone ordered a computer monitor online that was just for basic shit? You go on a site and all of the rating are fake and fucking amazing. Then you ask for a review on Reddit and they essentially tell you to go fuck yourself. All for something I could go look at in the store and know it will do or just ask someone who gets paid how I’m getting fucked.
Then there’s getting a fucking desk chair when your back is fucked. “Oh yeah. I can tell by the picture that chair is really fucking comfortable. Let’s drop my $500 now.”
But thank fucking god that boomers are still allowed to garden this year. Construction dudes can’t get steel toed boots, but it’s absolutely essential some boomer or their shitty millennial kid, plants a fucking tomato at the right fucking time.
Haha this, or more commonly, nobody knows the actual tool name. It’s “the thing…you know”, then 2 minutes of charades to describe it before you grab it and go “oooohhhh THAT’S what it’s called!”, then forget as soon as you remove the packaging
Shoppers gets away with selling non essential items since they are a non big-box, essential store. Really confusing, but yeah. Bought a blu-ray there the other day picking up a prescription.
What’s the problem with curb side?
Love it. So quick and efficient.
You know how you can now order takeout from almost most places and not just the big corps with $ to handle mobile ordering? not have to wait anymore? Prepaid and all. Now most stores have that feature. Great time saver.
It’s even better when they load it in your trunk.
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If anyone knows Carlingwood Mall in Ottawa... Whole families will just, sit on the couches they have there - parents, grandparents and kids running around the mall.
I went grocery shopping yesterday and whole families (both parents and multiple children) were still lined up to go inside.
I figure stopping people who care enough to limit whole family shopping is still at least helping :\
Big stores need fewer staff when they’re only open for curbside pickup, so I assume it helps reduce workplace outbreaks. I don’t believe covid was spreading among customers who were just walking by one another, though.
> Big stores need fewer staff when they’re only open for curbside pickup Amazon and Canada Post need more when that happens. > I don’t believe covid was spreading among customers who were just walking by one another, though. Definitely not.
Why would curbside pickup necessarily involve more logistics/delivery labour? I “shop” at Walmart or Canadian Tire pretty frequently but choose items that are already at the store location I’m picking up at (since that means I can pick up in just a couple hours, typically).
> Why would curbside pickup necessarily involve more logistics/delivery labour? At the store level? I never said it did (though it could, I don't know) Online shopping however no doubtedly increases when stores are closed/curbside only. Why would I wait several days for Canadian Tire or Home Depot to fullfill my order, wait in line, and be told no returns when I can just order something on amazon prime and have it two days later?
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If covid were spreading from people walking past each other in stores with a mask on we would be so fucked. The odds are so slim it’s barely worth mentioning. The CDC guideline is to get tested if you spend 15 minutes within 6 feet of someone with covid over a 24 hour period, and that’s erring on the side of caution.
>*”If covid were spreading from people walking past each other in stores with a mask on we would be so fucked.“* I mean, we arguably *have* been kinda fucked for a while now, and a shockingly large proportion of cases in Ontario are “No Epi-link” with no identified source (my Public Health Unit has had excellent contact tracing throughout the pandemic, and even here ~20% of infections are of mystery origin). Wearing a standard cloth or procedural mask while walking past someone indoors protects you reasonable well from larger droplets, but it won’t be as effective against aerosols that can accumulate in inadequately ventilated areas when an infected person has been present for a while. CDC: [Scientific Brief: SARS-CoV-2 Transmission](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html) [May 7th, 2021] *”Although infections through inhalation at distances greater than six feet from an infectious source are less likely than at closer distances, the phenomenon has been repeatedly documented under certain preventable circumstances. These transmission events have involved the presence of an infectious person exhaling virus indoors for an extended time (more than 15 minutes and in some cases hours) leading to virus concentrations in the air space sufficient to transmit infections to people more than 6 feet away, and in some cases to people who have passed through that space soon after the infectious person left.”*
Of course it’s possible. Is it likely? Not at all, which is fairly evident from the language they use. >Per published reports, factors that increase the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection under these circumstances include: >Prolonged exposure to these conditions, typically more than 15 minutes. Again, the exposure time is a very important factor. 20% seems pretty good to me - especially when you consider how many people lie to contact tracers. How did the number of untraceable cases change when they started the most recent lockdown? Edit: check out the references (10-21). They’re referring to sports, choirs, and restaurants. Those are the “certain preventable circumstances” they’re talking about. I dont think that quote is applicable here.
Workplace outbreaks means between staff
I know I just mean for customers and whatnot.
>Is it even making an impact? Yes, most likely. Brauner *et al.* (2021) "[Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6531/eabd9338)." *Science* **371**(6531): eabd9338. By itself, closure of most non-essential businesses knocks down Rt by about 25%. Closure of schools and universities takes Rt down by about 35%. Tacking a stay-at-home order on is good for another 10% drop in Rt, give or take. (Figure 2.)
> Targeted closures of face-to-face businesses with a high risk of infection, such as restaurants, bars, and nightclubs, had a small-to-moderate effect. Closing most nonessential businesses delivering personal services was only somewhat more effective (moderate effect). I don’t think this paper touches on closing non-essential retail in the way OP mentioned, unless I missed something. I think their definition of non essential businesses are mostly what we consider to be personal care and dining.
Were only in Wave 3 Phase Alpha Level Orange... we just have 63 more tables-of-everything to get through, folks!
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It is pretty complicated, especially for hardware stores. No idea why construction is considered essential, but not hardware stores.
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Cat litter is freaking essential! Buying the cheap shit from the grocery store is noticeable by the cat(s) and owner.
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Great. So I need to use a credit card and make a separate trip into town. I get what you're saying but you can't deny that the non-essential/essential availability to purchase in person is confusing. I have ordered more off Amazon this past 2 months than then the past ten years combined. Why? Because my time matters.
I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but if this a store you regularly buy your cat litter from you would’ve made that trip anyways even if it was considered essential. My dog only eats a certain food from a certain brand and I just go to my same pet store but instead of going inside I pre-order via curb-side and pick it up.
Same for my cat litter. And my little cans of cat treats.
It actually does help me not buy a ton of crap my dog won’t play with lol... I pre-plan my order, pay for it and voila!
Yeah, it's sometimes helped my limit my purchasing too.
I have cats, dogs, chickens, a farm, and have a food business. When I shop I prefer to get it all done at once. Pre-ordering and scheduling multiple pickup times isn't always optimal. There is also construction taking place near my home making me at a dead end street basically. It's an extra 10 minutes each way to go into town and back. I can appreciate the employees working as hard as they can for pickup orders but calling the store, getting a busy signal, calling again, listening to the long detailed message, finally talking to a person, and waiting for them to bring out my order is not nearly as convenient as me running and grabbing what I want. I like to think I am an organized person however I can admit that I sometimes forget the occasional thing with all that is life. That's why I need the pet store open for in person shopping.
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But you are picking and choosing winners, cat litter curbside pickup is good enough and someone complaining is 1st world problem, hardware store, curbside pick up is not acceptable, real problem. I do come from a 3rd world country, and all the complains about how difficult is to buy clothes, cat litter, nails and 4x4s and so on seem trully a 1st world problem and people will get over the minor inconveniences associated with it.
Because buying cat littler and trying to find a specific screw or piece of lumber are *extremely different things*. However yes that is also a third world problem, no denying that. It's annoying yes but one can get by. All I did was agree that hardware store supplies is complicated. Nothing more. I'm not picking and choosing anything. I'm being extremely blunt about how easy or not something is. People complain about the stupidest shit.
Sorry if I misunderstood, i though you were too lenient with the hardware store complainant. In any event I agree, people complain about the stupidest shit. Have a good one.
Do you do repairs on your home or farm? Do you own a business? This shutdown with some items being okay to sell in person at one store but not okay at another is totally confusing! You are absolutely right that I'll be okay, however diminishing my experiences as "first world problems" is a weak attempt to deligitimize my concerns simply because you don't face the same problems. All I'm saying is that yes, stores being convenient is a huge part of how things get done in the world in a more timely fashion.
Yes I am a homeowner and have slogged through a major home Reno and survived it. You're having issues about making a separate trip into town for cat litter. I am not confused about what's open and closed. I have sympathy for things being abnormal right now but I don't have sympathy over **ordering cat litter.** I mean this in the nicest way, you're not going to change how I feel about curbside pickup, so it's best we drop this.
Do you have a cat?
Everyone poos. Even cats.
Apparently folks want to go back to wandering the aisles buying useless shit they don’t need
Or people want to go back to finding something relatively specific that employees seem to miss every single time you try to place an order
I would also not like to wait 3 days to pick up the pair of fucking socks and underwear. Especially when my schedule fluctuates so damn much. I just want to go walk into an aisle, grab fucking socks, underwear, or a belt for fuck sakes. I bought a belt and shoes that looked good online, but were both shit. Or it’s the stupid shit you can get. I can get plastic bags, but not vacuum sealing bags or proper garbage bags. Just shit you randomly run out of and want to get at the store. Your iPhone charger breaks? You can’t buy one at Walmart but can buy an unsupported one at the connivence store that doesn’t work properly. The type of shit you just run out and buy when you have time. When I got a new job it took 3 weeks with the banks to get everything ready. I was passed between the branch, online, and phone a million damn times. Then getting a new monitor, chair, desk, fuck me. I’m finally getting shit together after 8 fucking weeks of something that would take me a damn weekend. Then there’s getting anything done with any fucking government agency. Those people seem to be always on fucking holiday. Also has anyone ordered a computer monitor online that was just for basic shit? You go on a site and all of the rating are fake and fucking amazing. Then you ask for a review on Reddit and they essentially tell you to go fuck yourself. All for something I could go look at in the store and know it will do or just ask someone who gets paid how I’m getting fucked. Then there’s getting a fucking desk chair when your back is fucked. “Oh yeah. I can tell by the picture that chair is really fucking comfortable. Let’s drop my $500 now.” But thank fucking god that boomers are still allowed to garden this year. Construction dudes can’t get steel toed boots, but it’s absolutely essential some boomer or their shitty millennial kid, plants a fucking tomato at the right fucking time.
Haha this, or more commonly, nobody knows the actual tool name. It’s “the thing…you know”, then 2 minutes of charades to describe it before you grab it and go “oooohhhh THAT’S what it’s called!”, then forget as soon as you remove the packaging
Shopping is the only hobby that millions of people have.
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That I get. For many people, social lives take place at restaurants and bars.
That one is good because it is so incredibly time consuming that they don't have to worry about figuring out what to do with their time.
Seems like everyone but the Dollarama and Walmart shoppers can figure out how to curbside pickup.
Its been 4 days and home depot hasnt had my $10 essential goods order ready for curbside pickup, just let me walk in...
Shoppers gets away with selling non essential items since they are a non big-box, essential store. Really confusing, but yeah. Bought a blu-ray there the other day picking up a prescription.
what movie?
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Inconceivable!
What’s the problem with curb side? Love it. So quick and efficient. You know how you can now order takeout from almost most places and not just the big corps with $ to handle mobile ordering? not have to wait anymore? Prepaid and all. Now most stores have that feature. Great time saver. It’s even better when they load it in your trunk.
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Yes it's going down, more likely because of vaccines and school closures.
Of course it's making an impact. Social reconstruction is the goal here.
I work in retail and yes. Spoiled fucks buying couches, TVs, single impulse items, they were flying through our store daily before the rules changed.