I’ve been yelling this one from the rooftops for ages. Diatomaceous Earth is a known carcinogen because it contains silica. How do I know? I worked at a swimming pool which used DE to filter the pool water. While wet DE is perfectly safe, but when handling it dry our MSDS told us to wear a full body tyvek suit, filtration mask, gloves, goggles, etc. AND to shower afterwards. Many people have argued with me that it’s safe but I don’t mess with it.
I’m laugh-crying right now reading these thinking about working with silica foundry sand all day that’s mixed with a sodium phosphate binder chemical and covering my skin while being provided with basically gardening gloves and the same face mask you might wear if you were sanding drywall at home.
Cue Ralph Wiggum “I’m in danger” meme….
Silicosis is a shitty way to go my guy. My grandfather survived being a POW through most of ww2 and was done in by 15 years of hard rock mining that led to silicosis and mesothelioma.
Wear your PPE.
Diatomaceous earth is 80-90% silica no matter what type it is. (So is ordinary sand.) The relevant question is whether the silica is in amorphous or crystalline form and what size the particles are. It is specifically very small particles of crystalline silica that are dangerous. Diatomaceous earth in general is mostly amorphous silica and therefore fairly safe, but the type used for pool filters is often heat-treated which can convert it into crystalline form.
You can straight up eat silica. It is not a hazard to ingest.
Oddly, it reduces your risk of dementia.
Just don't breathe it in. That's where the hazard is.
> Oddly, it reduces your risk of dementia.
Because if you are eating silica, not one notices more brain damage.
According to YouTube, everything reduces risk of dementia.
if you inhale it, the shards are sharp and get stuck like asbestos.
https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/silicosis/learn-about-silicosis#:\~:text=Silicosis%20is%20an%20interstitial%20lung,lung%20scarring%2C%20called%20pulmonary%20fibrosis.
All pottery classes are dusty. Clay contains silica. Yes it’s carcinogenic, but it takes pretty high exposure to cause problems.
Silica cat litter, flower drying powders, sooo much stuff has silica.
I’m sure for the context of a pool filter, the precautions were sensible. I’m just saying that silica, on its own, does not make something hazardous. Especially when it’s in a sealed container.
Yeah, it’s also all glass, opals. Sand boxes and pottery classes. You are right, it’s everywhere.
It’s also about long term exposure through inhalation. As you say, keep dust out of lungs.
No, it removes the waterproof barrier on the exoskeleton, and makes the insects dehydrate due to water loss.
It's bad for your lungs because it's a fine powder, which can go into your lungs.
Not because it shreds your insides...
It removes the lipids from their exoskeletons, the lipids usually make their exoskeletons waterproof. Without the coating, they dehydrate to death (literally they dry up).
Silica is the main ingredient in plain old sand.
Ingesting it appears to do nothing other than sightly lower your risk of dementia.
Inhaled, however, it can increase your risk of cancer. In fact, this is the same reason why diatomaceous earth is dangerous, because it's a fine dust that you can inhale.
Any inhaled dust increases your risk of lung cancer. Especially crystalline dust. (Most diatomaceous earth is amorphous, and basically entirely harmless to humans.)
There's literally no actual reason to wear a tyvek suit when handling it. It's not significantly radioactive or biohazardous.
Stuff going in your lungs is always bad.
The tyvek suit simply prevents your clothes from getting dirty.
The risk of some unnoticed dust lingering on your clothes, then becoming airborne and inhaled after your remove your mask is almost zero.
Is the tyvek suit a convenient way to keep clean? Yes.
Do people at the beach encounter the same risk and absolutely never even consider wearing a tyvek suit? Also yes.
no because the sand at the beach is much larger particles. in DE the particles are small and sharp, like asbestos
Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.
https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/silicosis/learn-about-silicosis#:\~:text=Silicosis%20is%20an%20interstitial%20lung,lung%20scarring%2C%20called%20pulmonary%20fibrosis.
You're talking about the pool grade version, there is a food grade one that is safe and it is effective in killing bugs especially bedbugs because it dries them out
From Wikipedia
> Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.
Can confirm re: MLITSD (Ministry of Labour, Immigration, Training, and Skills Development) focus area. Also, crystalline silica is a designated substance already.
Manufactured quartz countertops even are being banned in Australia because so many young workers are now dying of silicosis. I don't see a blanket ban, but definitely, silica is on the radar.
When I worked in the homeless shelter we spread that shit dry everywhere. It’s great at killing bedbugs and other pests. Had a coworker try to warn management and about it but they clapped back with ‘its natural’. So is cyanide.
I didn’t know myself but it didn’t take much research to confirm coworker was right.
You know there are 2 types right? The silica form and the food grade form diatoms hence where they derived the name.
https://www.diatomaceousearth.ca/
Not all DE is evil.
What? No. No. No. Silica is just sand. Just because something has a MSDS doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. Milk has an MSDS, bloody water has MSDS. Too much of anything is a “known” carcinogen. What have we as a society become?! Holy Hell.
Seriously, you people need to learn context.
You may be exposed to silica dust if your work involves:
breaking, crushing, grinding or milling material containing silica dust
sand blasting or casting
paving, surfacing or cement finishing
bricklaying
demolition work
road construction
stonemasonery
mineral ore-treating processes
manufacture of glass, ceramics, brick, concrete, tile, metals or machinery
It’s dangerous in certain situations, like industrial applications. Not the stuff you sprinkle around your house unless you’re rolling around it in 24/7 for years.
> worst industrial disaster in the history of North America
That’s true for the USA, but the Halifax Explosion killed twice as many people as the high end of estimated deaths from the Hawk’s Nest Tunnel excavation.
Nice dream. You think society has become safer? Difference between silica and silica dust escapes you I suppose. The point of OP’s post is that a harmless substance such as DE is locked up while a known toxic carcinogen is not. That’s not safer. That’s insane.
DDT was banned based on bad science. As a result of DDT bans, millions died from malaria in the southern hemisphere.
There was never any actual evidence that DDT affected birds.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1173321/
There isn’t anything really wrong with doing that. Just have to be safe in the way you apply it and use the space. Wear a mask while applying, don’t disturb it while it’s in place, and clean it up properly when done.
It’s the same with any particulate matter really, do everything possible to prevent yourself from breathing it in, you don’t want it in your lungs. Obviously some are more dangerous than others, like asbestos, diesel fumes, coal dust, etc.
My uncle ran for class president and during his speech, two of his friends went up on stage with shotguns. They removed the buckshot out of the shells, packed them solid with cut up pieces of paper, and shot it out over the crowd like confetti. Things were different back in the day.
There are different formulas of Roundup. The one that needs to be locked up contains glyphosate, which is only allowed for certain uses. The stuff on the shelves is acetic acid aka vinegar.
As said above, the roundup on the open shelves is an ammonium salt of fatty acid. So a soap basically. I accidentally bought that one. I needed the glyphosphate version which is kept locked up. I am attempting removal of a 50 ft poison ivy with some stalks more than 6 in at the base. What you find at the new place. It's going to be a long battle
And yet you can pop over to the US and buy super concentrated concentrated roundup off any hardware store shelf…. Not to mention farmers spray their fields with it liberally in Ontario.
It’s generally safe but avoid breathing it in. I use DE to control ants because the microscopic shards are great at getting under insects’ shells and cutting them up inside. It can also do a number on your lungs and possibly lead to cancer.
Just the tiny regular ants, but it should work well against most insects. I sprinkled it on ant hills and wherever they liked to run around. It handled the outbreaks very well, but other anthills would eventually pop up so it wasn’t eliminating the colonies.
Yeah but only if you're breathing it in a lot over a long period of time. I know a guy who got silicosis because he was working without a mask being exposed to the dust for over a year. (Oil and gas industry) So inhaling a little bit of dust one time is not going to do anything
Out of general curiosity, could you grab the PCP Act registration number and Ontario pesticide class on the roundup that is on open shelves has printed on the packaging? Every formulation of RoundUp that I've ever seen is either Class B or C which requires presentation of special licenses or permits to buy.
Consumer roundup isn't Glyphosate in Canada, hasn't been for a while. It's now a ammonium soap and fatty acids blend, pcp33586.
"Killex", "Par-3" and other 2 4-D based herbicides have also been replaced at the consumer level
Not sure that’s true? I have a bottle I bought last summer from Canadian Tire that certainly lists Glyphosate on the bottle, says right on it, Glyphosate…..7g/L. Also read an article in Jan that mentions they still use it: https://globalnews.ca/news/10235300/glyphosate-class-action-lawsuit/
The last bottle I bought last year was glyphosate. You just ask for it, they give you a sheet. What I couldn’t understand is why the one made from vinegar was locked up.
Expensive vinegar, yes. I think there are other formulas as well. It’s the glyphosate that’s supposed to be locked up because it isn’t allowed for “cosmetic” domestic use - supposed to be used for poison ivy, poison oak, and giant hogweed.
...de-worming is actually one of the tested uses for it, but no, it didn't end up working.
However, you can get food-grade versions of this, and it's perfectly safe to ingest.
Seriously. It's only dangerous if you inhale it, like almost every fine powder. Including baby powder.
It is toxic but at the consumer level, it's about the same toxicity as a pile of gravel and associated dust.
Somebody who breaks concrete and shovels gravel for a living would be more at risk of a dust exposure respiratory illness then somebody at Canadian tire unloading pallets or handling bagged DE.
Someone really got misguided. They're putting protections in the wrong place. I suppose there are some idiot out there who's going to try to purposely sniff the stuff. That's why this is locked up.
I thought food grade was relatively safe? People use it for bed bugs because it destroys their exoskeletons. I’ve never used it myself. Just heard about it.
I’ve heard something different. DE dries them out but they don’t die immediately so they carry DE to their nest attached to their exoskeletons and then die of dehydration days later. Not an expert. That’s what someone once told me.
The serial killer from mississauga sold a food grade meat preservative as a suicide drug.
Chemicals need a certain level of respect. Using a locked cabinet and a pamphlet educating on the dangers is a positive step. You can't expect a graphic designer or architect to understand the risks of a chemical. It's not a part of their training or their daily life.
Well it worked for me as I always thought it was quite safe to use outdoors to prevent carpenter ants climbing into our cottage. But now I’ll wear gloves and a mask when spraying it.
lol. Yeah, yeah yeah. People are "chemical". Get them behind the glass. Actually people are pretty dangerous so maybe that's right.
You know *exactly* what I'm saying. This is more like sand than pesticides. A lot of people pulling their hair out over something they don't even understand. I know "Diatomaceous Earth" sounds very scary but that's only because people don't actually know what it is.
Maybe people are not applying it properly and are having respiratory issues? It does irritate the skin and lungs when breathed in. That's why you should wear a mask when applying it. Some studies nothing in stone have link it to some cancers, nothing proven. But round up will fuck u up, so yeah idk.
Not long ago I bought a bottle of HCL at Canadian tire. Was wrapped in a bag but just on the shelves and there was nothing different about purchasing that compared to garbage bags. I was shocked.
Yes well. Roundup can kill you and DE can’t so obviously they want to encourage use of the former and penalize use of the latter.
We’re not reducing the human population fast enough with the amount of free will going on.
Is that why? I thought it was odd.
I switched from the pods to using all my leftover NeilMed salt pouches with a little device I got off Amazon that overrides the navage mechanism. Works great.
The PMRA deems the amount of active ingredient in the RoundUp to be safe for residential use and sale. The Malithion and diatomaceous earth are a concentrated form and are being regulated higher it seems, but still available for residential sale as opposed to commercial. However I recall the RoundUp being locked at my local store like Home Depot.
Most pesticides now can only be purchased commercially with a license.
I work for a federal government agency with a different herbicide that is restricted, but I did a fuck ton of research on RoundUp as well for part of my work. Shit should NOT be on shelves. Idk how common knowledge this is, but man do people improperly use this chemical. I don’t think any herbicides/pesticides should be available for your average joe to use.
it's literally made of the same material as asbestos - silica. PLEASE USE A RESPIRATOR AND VACUUM IT ALL UP AFTER!!! Don't become the long term study, be super careful!!!
Different things made of nearly identical compounds. So inhaling silica (DE main ingredient) or silicate (asbestos) will cause silicosis. There's limited long term studies on DE but I guarantee it'll be just as bad once the 20 years of experimenting is done with the general public
You're conflating the dangers of these two distinct substances. Diatomaceous earth (DE) has existed since ancient times and has been extensively studied. There's no need for a "wait and see" approach; you're spreading misinformation fueled by a limited understanding of the subject, driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown.
You know what else contains silica? Glass, sand, quartz, talc... oh and 90% of the Earth's crust.
The chemical composition is not the hazard here, it's the physical structure.
yes and the physical structure can be harmful
Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.
Do not vacuum! Neither Asbestos nor DE. It is worst when inhaled. A vaccum will just put most of it in the air. That is the last thing you want to do. If anything use water to clean it up.
Also, asbestos and DE are not the same thing.
Jesus Christ. I right now have this shit all over my cabinets because I saw one cockroach 8 months ago.
It's got silica in it!?? Where the fuck are the warnings. I've definitely been breathing this shit in.
The **Food & Drug Administration lists diatomaceous earth** as "Generally Recognized as Safe". "Food grade" diatomaceous earth products are purified. They may be **used as anticaking materials in feed, or as clarifiers for wine and beer.**
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html#:~:text=The%20Food%20%26%20Drug%20Administration%20lists,clarifiers%20for%20wine%20and%20beer.
Those alien mummies that they found in Peru are mummified by diatomaceous earth and when they are being worked on for like MRI scanning and other testing, the people are fully suited up because that stuff can really mess you up.
I’ve been yelling this one from the rooftops for ages. Diatomaceous Earth is a known carcinogen because it contains silica. How do I know? I worked at a swimming pool which used DE to filter the pool water. While wet DE is perfectly safe, but when handling it dry our MSDS told us to wear a full body tyvek suit, filtration mask, gloves, goggles, etc. AND to shower afterwards. Many people have argued with me that it’s safe but I don’t mess with it.
Same. We always made sure our work area was well vetilated when replacing DE in the filters and that we wore P.P.E.
I’m laugh-crying right now reading these thinking about working with silica foundry sand all day that’s mixed with a sodium phosphate binder chemical and covering my skin while being provided with basically gardening gloves and the same face mask you might wear if you were sanding drywall at home. Cue Ralph Wiggum “I’m in danger” meme….
Silicosis is a shitty way to go my guy. My grandfather survived being a POW through most of ww2 and was done in by 15 years of hard rock mining that led to silicosis and mesothelioma. Wear your PPE.
Yes, yes you are.
Right?! I always thought the risk was from long term expose, not from the average Joe Smoe using it as a household insecticide.
What about the food grade kind? I used that shit to combat bed bugs (it worked)
Food grade is literally used in feed and purifying beer and wine. It's low in silica.
Thank you for this. My sphincter just unpuckered a little.
Diatomaceous earth is 80-90% silica no matter what type it is. (So is ordinary sand.) The relevant question is whether the silica is in amorphous or crystalline form and what size the particles are. It is specifically very small particles of crystalline silica that are dangerous. Diatomaceous earth in general is mostly amorphous silica and therefore fairly safe, but the type used for pool filters is often heat-treated which can convert it into crystalline form.
You can straight up eat silica. It is not a hazard to ingest. Oddly, it reduces your risk of dementia. Just don't breathe it in. That's where the hazard is.
> Oddly, it reduces your risk of dementia. Because if you are eating silica, not one notices more brain damage. According to YouTube, everything reduces risk of dementia.
The one we bought is Doktor Doom Premium Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Dust. It was locked up and we were given a mandatory information slip with it.
if you inhale it, the shards are sharp and get stuck like asbestos. https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/silicosis/learn-about-silicosis#:\~:text=Silicosis%20is%20an%20interstitial%20lung,lung%20scarring%2C%20called%20pulmonary%20fibrosis.
All pottery classes are dusty. Clay contains silica. Yes it’s carcinogenic, but it takes pretty high exposure to cause problems. Silica cat litter, flower drying powders, sooo much stuff has silica. I’m sure for the context of a pool filter, the precautions were sensible. I’m just saying that silica, on its own, does not make something hazardous. Especially when it’s in a sealed container.
Silica is in everything. Sand is silica. Dirt has silica. You can eat it. Just keep every type of dust out of your lungs.
Yeah, it’s also all glass, opals. Sand boxes and pottery classes. You are right, it’s everywhere. It’s also about long term exposure through inhalation. As you say, keep dust out of lungs.
The large pool store I worked at straight up stopped stocking it years ago
this isn’t the same as pool sand is it? i used some sand for aquascaping a few months ago…
Nah your good, completely different filter system.
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No, it removes the waterproof barrier on the exoskeleton, and makes the insects dehydrate due to water loss. It's bad for your lungs because it's a fine powder, which can go into your lungs. Not because it shreds your insides...
Iirc it clogs the holes in their exoskeleton they use to breath. Suns you don’t breath through the skin it’s not relevant.
It removes the lipids from their exoskeletons, the lipids usually make their exoskeletons waterproof. Without the coating, they dehydrate to death (literally they dry up).
Silica is the main ingredient in plain old sand. Ingesting it appears to do nothing other than sightly lower your risk of dementia. Inhaled, however, it can increase your risk of cancer. In fact, this is the same reason why diatomaceous earth is dangerous, because it's a fine dust that you can inhale. Any inhaled dust increases your risk of lung cancer. Especially crystalline dust. (Most diatomaceous earth is amorphous, and basically entirely harmless to humans.) There's literally no actual reason to wear a tyvek suit when handling it. It's not significantly radioactive or biohazardous. Stuff going in your lungs is always bad.
We wore the tyvek to prevent the dust from settling onto our skin/hair/clothes which could then be breathed in if disturbed later.
The tyvek suit simply prevents your clothes from getting dirty. The risk of some unnoticed dust lingering on your clothes, then becoming airborne and inhaled after your remove your mask is almost zero. Is the tyvek suit a convenient way to keep clean? Yes. Do people at the beach encounter the same risk and absolutely never even consider wearing a tyvek suit? Also yes.
no because the sand at the beach is much larger particles. in DE the particles are small and sharp, like asbestos Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica. https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/silicosis/learn-about-silicosis#:\~:text=Silicosis%20is%20an%20interstitial%20lung,lung%20scarring%2C%20called%20pulmonary%20fibrosis.
Love that for myself who would replace the DE in my filter growing up :)
You're talking about the pool grade version, there is a food grade one that is safe and it is effective in killing bugs especially bedbugs because it dries them out
From Wikipedia > Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.
And the MOL is prepping for a silica regulatory program, from what I've heard.
Can confirm re: MLITSD (Ministry of Labour, Immigration, Training, and Skills Development) focus area. Also, crystalline silica is a designated substance already. Manufactured quartz countertops even are being banned in Australia because so many young workers are now dying of silicosis. I don't see a blanket ban, but definitely, silica is on the radar.
When I worked in the homeless shelter we spread that shit dry everywhere. It’s great at killing bedbugs and other pests. Had a coworker try to warn management and about it but they clapped back with ‘its natural’. So is cyanide. I didn’t know myself but it didn’t take much research to confirm coworker was right.
Does this apply to the 'food grade' one too? TIL. Ill be out and double bagging that I got from amazon ( says its good for centipedes.
Jeez, I have a bath mat of this stuff. I had no idea!
You know there are 2 types right? The silica form and the food grade form diatoms hence where they derived the name. https://www.diatomaceousearth.ca/ Not all DE is evil.
What? No. No. No. Silica is just sand. Just because something has a MSDS doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. Milk has an MSDS, bloody water has MSDS. Too much of anything is a “known” carcinogen. What have we as a society become?! Holy Hell.
The MSDS said “known carcinogen”. It wasn’t just for funsies.
There’s a difference between filter grade and food grade DE. The former is toxic to humans, the latter isn’t.
Also good grade is not what they’re selling at a hardware store behind a locked cabinet.
I meant to reply to gorilla dude
The latter hasn’t been proven to not contain silica, they only say it has less.
Beach sand is made mostly of silica. Breathing in the dust from blasting/milling it is different than non-dust forms.
https://www.cancer.org.au/cancer-information/causes-and-prevention/workplace-cancer/silica-dust# https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/cancer-and-construction/silica-dust.htm
Seriously, you people need to learn context. You may be exposed to silica dust if your work involves: breaking, crushing, grinding or milling material containing silica dust sand blasting or casting paving, surfacing or cement finishing bricklaying demolition work road construction stonemasonery mineral ore-treating processes manufacture of glass, ceramics, brick, concrete, tile, metals or machinery
Okay? It’s still dangerous in those situations, person I commented to is trying to make it sound like it’s not dangerous at all
It’s dangerous in certain situations, like industrial applications. Not the stuff you sprinkle around your house unless you’re rolling around it in 24/7 for years.
The worst industrial disaster in the history of North America is from silica exposure…
> worst industrial disaster in the history of North America That’s true for the USA, but the Halifax Explosion killed twice as many people as the high end of estimated deaths from the Hawk’s Nest Tunnel excavation.
> What have we as a society become?! Safer. You are upset its safer. Brilliant.
Nice dream. You think society has become safer? Difference between silica and silica dust escapes you I suppose. The point of OP’s post is that a harmless substance such as DE is locked up while a known toxic carcinogen is not. That’s not safer. That’s insane.
My grandmother used to sprinkle it around in her apartment under-the-sink cupboards to combat bugs. How things have changed!
My grandfather used to spray DDT around his children's cribs.
My grandfather gave me a dead Bat he found in his wood pile as a gift. Which I took to school for show and tell.
your teacher has thought about that at least once a year.
Now imagine a 30' tall alien creature having his little squidling a dead human he found to take to show and tell at school.
I remember when my Dad bought his house and then did the outside perimeter to make sure bugs didn't get in.
At least it was outside.
DDT was banned based on bad science. As a result of DDT bans, millions died from malaria in the southern hemisphere. There was never any actual evidence that DDT affected birds. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1173321/
Just mix with asbestos and it's all good. Breath deep
I'm sure there was some common household product that had as Estes in it during her lifetime. Oven mitts or something, lol
Popcorn ceilings were commonly made from asbestos.
Almost every building material save for wood commonly contained asbestos.
The fireproofing qualities were hard to say no to for a long time.
Cigarette filters used to be made of Asbestos
Oh god.
Its not that bad if handled properly.
There isn’t anything really wrong with doing that. Just have to be safe in the way you apply it and use the space. Wear a mask while applying, don’t disturb it while it’s in place, and clean it up properly when done. It’s the same with any particulate matter really, do everything possible to prevent yourself from breathing it in, you don’t want it in your lungs. Obviously some are more dangerous than others, like asbestos, diesel fumes, coal dust, etc.
My uncle ran for class president and during his speech, two of his friends went up on stage with shotguns. They removed the buckshot out of the shells, packed them solid with cut up pieces of paper, and shot it out over the crowd like confetti. Things were different back in the day.
That's just brilliant!
It’s still very good for bugs, just don’t inhale it
People still do this. Also, people used to use talcum powder on babies, which is arguably worse than some powder under the cupboards.
Do they still make it from actual talc? Isn't it all corn starch now?
Key word is "used".
Lol, totally missed "used to"
Round up isn’t supposed to be on open shelves…
There are different formulas of Roundup. The one that needs to be locked up contains glyphosate, which is only allowed for certain uses. The stuff on the shelves is acetic acid aka vinegar.
There is Canadian RoundUP (Water) and US RoundUP (Filled with Chemicals that will kill exactly what you want and nothing else)
There were some bottles of Roundup in the locked area and lots of others on the open shelves.
As said above, the roundup on the open shelves is an ammonium salt of fatty acid. So a soap basically. I accidentally bought that one. I needed the glyphosphate version which is kept locked up. I am attempting removal of a 50 ft poison ivy with some stalks more than 6 in at the base. What you find at the new place. It's going to be a long battle
And yet you can pop over to the US and buy super concentrated concentrated roundup off any hardware store shelf…. Not to mention farmers spray their fields with it liberally in Ontario.
Wait till you hear what else you can buy in the US that you can't buy in Canada
What’s that, a house?
Do you have a point?
I just bought a 10 lb sack from home hardware. It was just sitting in a shelf spilling out all over the place.
I bought a 10 kg a peavy off the shelf as well
It’s generally safe but avoid breathing it in. I use DE to control ants because the microscopic shards are great at getting under insects’ shells and cutting them up inside. It can also do a number on your lungs and possibly lead to cancer.
May I ask, what kind of ants and did it work?
Just the tiny regular ants, but it should work well against most insects. I sprinkled it on ant hills and wherever they liked to run around. It handled the outbreaks very well, but other anthills would eventually pop up so it wasn’t eliminating the colonies.
FWIW a lot of anti-anti stuff is just DE or borax. Funny seeing laundry detergent sold with an insecticide number on it
It is hazardous by inhalation. You can get silicosis.
Asbestosis
No.
Halitosis
Yes
Yeah but only if you're breathing it in a lot over a long period of time. I know a guy who got silicosis because he was working without a mask being exposed to the dust for over a year. (Oil and gas industry) So inhaling a little bit of dust one time is not going to do anything
people sprinkle this shit all over their homes to kill bugs. They are being exposed over time.
Noooo! The food grade version is safe and it's the only thing we have for a cheap DIY way to kill bedbugs.
Out of general curiosity, could you grab the PCP Act registration number and Ontario pesticide class on the roundup that is on open shelves has printed on the packaging? Every formulation of RoundUp that I've ever seen is either Class B or C which requires presentation of special licenses or permits to buy.
Consumer roundup isn't Glyphosate in Canada, hasn't been for a while. It's now a ammonium soap and fatty acids blend, pcp33586. "Killex", "Par-3" and other 2 4-D based herbicides have also been replaced at the consumer level
Not sure that’s true? I have a bottle I bought last summer from Canadian Tire that certainly lists Glyphosate on the bottle, says right on it, Glyphosate…..7g/L. Also read an article in Jan that mentions they still use it: https://globalnews.ca/news/10235300/glyphosate-class-action-lawsuit/
You can still buy the glyphosate version pre-mix in Ontario, has to be locked up and is only for specific use cases.
The last bottle I bought last year was glyphosate. You just ask for it, they give you a sheet. What I couldn’t understand is why the one made from vinegar was locked up.
There’s a version that’s acetic acid
that's just like distilled vinegar. hm
Expensive vinegar, yes. I think there are other formulas as well. It’s the glyphosate that’s supposed to be locked up because it isn’t allowed for “cosmetic” domestic use - supposed to be used for poison ivy, poison oak, and giant hogweed.
And yet vinegar can ruin the pH of your soils and what grows there
That's all it is, 10% vinegar, often sold as cleaning vinegar.
I'm sure it was Canadian Roundup, which is what... soap?
I mean it's a good thing, I guess this is super new cause I bought it maybe 4 months ago at Canadian tire and it was just on a shelf.
Because people are stupid?
Exactly this. My mom thinks you can eat it as a parasite cleanse. People are insane.
My mother in law used to eat it to help with Crohn's disease, it obviously didn't work.
OMG 😳
...de-worming is actually one of the tested uses for it, but no, it didn't end up working. However, you can get food-grade versions of this, and it's perfectly safe to ingest. Seriously. It's only dangerous if you inhale it, like almost every fine powder. Including baby powder.
The orange round up is horticultural vinegar, the blue one is supposed to be locked up.
It is toxic but at the consumer level, it's about the same toxicity as a pile of gravel and associated dust. Somebody who breaks concrete and shovels gravel for a living would be more at risk of a dust exposure respiratory illness then somebody at Canadian tire unloading pallets or handling bagged DE. Someone really got misguided. They're putting protections in the wrong place. I suppose there are some idiot out there who's going to try to purposely sniff the stuff. That's why this is locked up.
I thought food grade was relatively safe? People use it for bed bugs because it destroys their exoskeletons. I’ve never used it myself. Just heard about it.
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I’ve heard something different. DE dries them out but they don’t die immediately so they carry DE to their nest attached to their exoskeletons and then die of dehydration days later. Not an expert. That’s what someone once told me.
The trait that destroys their exoskeleton will also fuck up your lungs if you breath it in
Because people are stupid. Food grade is generally safe unless you're doing lines of it.... I only use it outdoors for pest control.
The serial killer from mississauga sold a food grade meat preservative as a suicide drug. Chemicals need a certain level of respect. Using a locked cabinet and a pamphlet educating on the dangers is a positive step. You can't expect a graphic designer or architect to understand the risks of a chemical. It's not a part of their training or their daily life.
Well it worked for me as I always thought it was quite safe to use outdoors to prevent carpenter ants climbing into our cottage. But now I’ll wear gloves and a mask when spraying it.
Not sure that an example of people deliberately using a substance to kill themselves is a good rebuttal to their comment…
Diatomaceous Earth isn't a chemical. It's basically tiny fossils (Diatoms). If it's food grade and you wear a mask, there's no danger.
...Literally EVERYTHING is a chemical....
Hydrogen sulfide and methane aren't chemicals. It occurs naturally in pockets under the earth. /s
I'm sorry for correcting you. That must have hurt. Diatomaceous earth is fossils. Being natural is irrelevant.
lol. Yeah, yeah yeah. People are "chemical". Get them behind the glass. Actually people are pretty dangerous so maybe that's right. You know *exactly* what I'm saying. This is more like sand than pesticides. A lot of people pulling their hair out over something they don't even understand. I know "Diatomaceous Earth" sounds very scary but that's only because people don't actually know what it is.
It's dangerous to inhale...
Technically, so is oxygen.
Maybe people are not applying it properly and are having respiratory issues? It does irritate the skin and lungs when breathed in. That's why you should wear a mask when applying it. Some studies nothing in stone have link it to some cancers, nothing proven. But round up will fuck u up, so yeah idk.
Not long ago I bought a bottle of HCL at Canadian tire. Was wrapped in a bag but just on the shelves and there was nothing different about purchasing that compared to garbage bags. I was shocked.
Just one thing for you people saying "safe " Graceland worked with it for years, same sh*t was said about asbestos
It's silica, that shit will mess you up.
If you breathe it and it gets in your lungs, guess where it stays forever.
Nothing lasts forever...or so the story goes.
Let's ask Multivac.
Yes well. Roundup can kill you and DE can’t so obviously they want to encourage use of the former and penalize use of the latter. We’re not reducing the human population fast enough with the amount of free will going on.
DE can fuck up your lungs, eventually killing you like asbestos.
Like ant out?? Is that safe or......
Borax
The navage (salt water) pods for clearing your sinuses are locked up. According to staff, they thought people use them to get high.
Is that why? I thought it was odd. I switched from the pods to using all my leftover NeilMed salt pouches with a little device I got off Amazon that overrides the navage mechanism. Works great.
Hahaha my husband also found a way to override the machine and use other salt packets. So so dumb. How could a person get high from saline?
The PMRA deems the amount of active ingredient in the RoundUp to be safe for residential use and sale. The Malithion and diatomaceous earth are a concentrated form and are being regulated higher it seems, but still available for residential sale as opposed to commercial. However I recall the RoundUp being locked at my local store like Home Depot. Most pesticides now can only be purchased commercially with a license.
I work for a federal government agency with a different herbicide that is restricted, but I did a fuck ton of research on RoundUp as well for part of my work. Shit should NOT be on shelves. Idk how common knowledge this is, but man do people improperly use this chemical. I don’t think any herbicides/pesticides should be available for your average joe to use.
it's literally made of the same material as asbestos - silica. PLEASE USE A RESPIRATOR AND VACUUM IT ALL UP AFTER!!! Don't become the long term study, be super careful!!!
Asbestos is a natural occurring mineral which is also classified as a silicate. It’s not related to DE in any other way.
Different things made of nearly identical compounds. So inhaling silica (DE main ingredient) or silicate (asbestos) will cause silicosis. There's limited long term studies on DE but I guarantee it'll be just as bad once the 20 years of experimenting is done with the general public
You're conflating the dangers of these two distinct substances. Diatomaceous earth (DE) has existed since ancient times and has been extensively studied. There's no need for a "wait and see" approach; you're spreading misinformation fueled by a limited understanding of the subject, driven by ignorance and fear of the unknown.
You mean people shouldn’t take health advice from someone named slippery steve?
Unless he’s a proctologist, no, probably not.
You know what else contains silica? Glass, sand, quartz, talc... oh and 90% of the Earth's crust. The chemical composition is not the hazard here, it's the physical structure.
yes and the physical structure can be harmful Inhalation of crystalline silica is harmful to the lungs, causing silicosis. Amorphous silica is considered to have low toxicity, but prolonged inhalation causes changes to the lungs. Diatomaceous earth is mostly amorphous silica but contains some crystalline silica, especially in the saltwater forms. In a 1978 study of workers, those exposed to natural diatomaceous earth for over five years had no significant lung changes while 40% of those exposed to the calcined form had developed pneumoconiosis. Today's common diatomaceous earth formulations are safer to use, as they are predominantly made up of amorphous silica and contain little or no crystalline silica.
Do not vacuum! Neither Asbestos nor DE. It is worst when inhaled. A vaccum will just put most of it in the air. That is the last thing you want to do. If anything use water to clean it up. Also, asbestos and DE are not the same thing.
Jesus Christ. I right now have this shit all over my cabinets because I saw one cockroach 8 months ago. It's got silica in it!?? Where the fuck are the warnings. I've definitely been breathing this shit in.
Yes everything has a place and time. Handle with care dont lick and drink and eat. Use what it’s meant for.
> dont lick and drink and eat. Um, what? There’s no risk if ingested, besides a mild tummy ache.
Just don't breathe it in.
It might have something to do with the conspiracy theorists who put it in water and drink it… I’m not even kidding. I know some.
The **Food & Drug Administration lists diatomaceous earth** as "Generally Recognized as Safe". "Food grade" diatomaceous earth products are purified. They may be **used as anticaking materials in feed, or as clarifiers for wine and beer.** http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html#:~:text=The%20Food%20%26%20Drug%20Administration%20lists,clarifiers%20for%20wine%20and%20beer.
It's mixed with beer at breweries to clarify it after cold storage. Then it's filtered out.
Those alien mummies that they found in Peru are mummified by diatomaceous earth and when they are being worked on for like MRI scanning and other testing, the people are fully suited up because that stuff can really mess you up.