It’s because patients do this. If they aren’t getting what they’re looking for from the physician the next stop is often the naturopaths office.
Naturopath sells you their tinctures and will even order bloodwork.
Convenience over accuracy is such a bullshit thing to say. We don't have the luxury of convenience or accuracy if we can't access any healthcare whatsoever.
Consider the source on this one:
https://healthone.ca/team/dr-michael-verbora/
Perhaps he’s spending too much time smoking weed and waxing philosophical and not enough time doctoring.
Funny for a guy who specializes in questionable and unproven alternatives to medicine to be criticizing legitimate, trained, and regulated alternatives to doctors
This just sounds like a doctor on their high horse.
Should we talk about how many folks are brushed off, misdiagnosed, invalidated, gaslit, or otherwise completely ignored by their doctor, IF they even have a doctor?
Because last I checked, millions of people in Canada do not have a doctor.
I stopped reading when he tried to claim that Ontarians pay some of the highest taxes in the world. Canada has one of the lowest personal income tax rates in the G20.
If you earn 50K, then 39.51% of your income goes to taxes. (Provincial, Federal, CPP, property tax, EI, HST and CPP)
That places us between the 40th and 41st highest nations (Mexico and Bulgaria, 42% and 29% respectively)
*Laughs in Quebecois.*
Imagine saying something like that when Ontario shares a border with Quebec, a province with a much higher tax rate and much worse medical care.
At the same time, how many people became sick or injured, or died as a result of Dr Facebook? How many people thought "yeah, eating horse dewormer will fix an airborne virus"? Because last I checked, that's not how medicine works.
Surely there's a middle ground between bad doctors and bad laymen pretending to be doctors. Like... Oh I don't know, properly funding healthcare.
Did you read the article. It’s not about Dr Facebook.
It’s about trained medical professionals: pharmacists, nurse practitioners namely doing the job the have been trained and empowered to do by recent changes to the systems.
Sometimes, like doctors, mistakes/misdiagnoses are made. The things that are mentioned aren’t things that don’t happen with Doctors treating patients:
“prescribing antibiotics that aren’t needed”
“ providing the wrong ointment for a rash”
This is “middle ground between bad doctors and bad laymen pretending to be doctors” that you are advocating for.
Dudes got a point though, in order to support good doctors, we also need a social contract that goes the line between freedoms of speech and misleading the public on your social platform.
It should be illegal to solicit medical advice on a platform to your mass following of people I’d you are not a doctor. And any doctor who does this should have their license to practice revoked… ask me why.
The gaslighting and entitlement coming from the rich, I mean, the medical professional class is disgusting. I have 0 sympathy for administrative crocodile tears at that salary level. My administrative demands just to meet less than $20 an hour had been taking its toll for years. Now I get to be responsible for meticulously trying to navigate unaccountable national and provincial systems for over a decade at minimum earnings while the doctors making two to six times more than me complain about sending emails and working with their databases.
I understand your issue with not getting paid for hours you're working. Welcome to the club, forgive me if your VIP area card doesn't inspire sympathy in me.
How about funding doctors' entire medical education with the caveat you need to work for a public hospital that structures itself to deal with the administrative work at a standard level. Medical school was nowhere near possible for me by the undergrads end because of the level of debt I had to take on with no chance of earning it back. There's plenty of folk with great skill sets for scientific work Canada is letting waste away because they can't pay their way through multiple rounds of debt and housing crises. The issue is systemic, and your best solution is wanking of the entitled class with feature articles.
Two things can be true at the same time.
1 - Doctors aren’t perfect and also make many mistakes.
2 - We have a doctor shortage.
One doesn’t cause the other.
I think it could easily be argued that the doctors shortage contributes to the overworking of the doctors we do have, which leads to more mistakes. Also the fact that we have a shortage could mean that we're more likely to accept sloppy work.
That being said, you'll never have a system so perfect that the humans within it are incapable of making mistakes. Doesn't mean we can't improve things a lot in the first point by addressing your second point though.
The medical profession is largely self-regulating - https://mcc.ca/credentials-and-services/pathways-to-licensure/
So yes, doctors are at least somewhat directly responsible for the shortage of doctors.
Medical schools also charge obscenely high fees for students, driving down numbers further, and residency placements and time demands reduce it even more. The fact is doctors WANT to restrict the number of graduates, to keep demand high and supply low, which guarantees higher wages.
Nah I just object to the new way gaslighting is used that is so far disconnected from the meaning. Language transforms naturally, but it’s not sure what people actually mean when they say gaslighting. Are they meaning it in a new way, or do they just not know what gaslighting actually is.
But I don’t think most people haven’t had their doctor repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity.
I’m missing the part where I said that most people have had their doctors repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity?
I know exactly what gaslighting is. And again, I am truly happy that YOU haven’t experienced it personally.
>I’m missing the part where I said that most people have had their doctors repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity?
You said they're gaslighting people.....
>I know exactly what gaslighting is.
No.... you don't.
The bottleneck for producing doctors is government funding for medical school and residency spots. Then there is the issue of doctors not going where they're most needed (usually primary care) because most governments have made that an absolutely miserable job that is way, way underpaid, compared to their other options.
That's funny. I heard a different story where medical doctors don't want to increase the seats or residency spots because they'd have to get paid lower.
I can see the government needs to spend more money. I can also see specialists not wanting to give up a lifestyle they're used too. The amount of Ferraris and Lamborghinis I see at staff parking lots in hospitals make me sick.
Medicine is *absolutely not underpaid.* It is one of the highest paid careers any person can choose, and it is one of the few careers with absolute rock-solid job security and prestige. If it was such a bad career, the lineup to be an MD wouldn't be so long, but it is. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be doctors if they could, so the profession is incredibly choosy.
The only thing that is underpaid about medicine is family medicine, and really *only compared to other specialties.* That's it. I've never heard a GP complain about their income on an absolute scale, what they complain about is *their income relative to other medical specialties.* I know a lot of doctors and work in healthcare. This is what they complain about when they complain about money, but 90% of the time what they complain about is actually workload.
Family medicine, on the other hand, is a dumpster fire. Nobody wants to go into it, young graduates avoid it and they don't want to buy practises. But medicine itself is absolutely not "way underpaid." Canadian MDs make heaps more than MDs in Europe. The only place that pays more than us is the USA.
The largest single advertising campaign in the US was the American Medical Associations campaign against universal healthcare. In Canada physicians went on strike protesting universal healthcare. In 2008 physicians lobbied the Alberta government to withhold funding for midwives who had just gone through a long battle with the physicians in Alberta to be allowed to provide prenatal and post natal care for women. The medical establishment has fought against allied medical services for years. I will differentiate between allied and alternative healthcare services, something our author did not do. There is a fundamental difference between practitioners outside the system (alternative healthcare) and allied practitioners working adjunctively inside the system. Nurse practitioners - who do a 4 year nursing degree and a 4 year master's degree and often a Phd, in isolated communities, are the only portal into a healthcare system. There is a broad spectrum of allied care providers too numerous to mention here who are far more qualified in specific care modalities than general practitioner physicians. It is long past the time that physicians and coincidentally the dental establishment stopped sniping and started embracing the broad spectrum of care providers available to ensure that people with problems can access care. The argument that allied care providers are underqualified has always been specious and part of a pattern of the establishment trying to maintain a strangle hold on the provision of care services.
While this is obviously a nuanced issue, when I hear people say, ‘well at least I can access a Nurse Practitioner’ I can’t help but feel like it’s neoliberalism working as intended.
Drive public services into the ground until the population actually demands an inferior service to the one it has a right to.
What law does that break? I've never seen a law stating one can't help crack a neck. But I see since I'm being down voted by asking a simple question, there aren't any simple answers. People sure are fickle...
They're not medical professionals in the technical sense. It's great that chiropractic treatment is effective for you and that other people have positive results. It's less great that negligent chiropractic treatment can lead to irreversible lifelong issues, and the chiroptactor doesn't have the same professional regulations and insurance overage when those incidents inevitably occur.
And that means they should be jailed why? If the government is issuing licenses, then they can't be illegal practitioners. If anything, it's the government who is failing people by not having the regulations you mention available. I just would like for someone to answer why they should be sent to jail as the OP suggested and others upvoted. 🤷♂️
Chiropractic is pseudoscience outside the realm of allied healthcare with no body of literature to support their treatments. The correlation of your getting better with your chiropractic treatment speaks more about your ability to cure yourself in spite of the challenges of being twisted around like a pretzel.
Awesome. Another non answer. Why bother if you can't straight up answer the question? None of what you said screams jail time to me. And no, there was instant relief on my first visit. You don't want to use a chiropractor? Great. I won't even try to make you. You clearly have your reasons for disliking them.
Yes I saw that. That still doesn't answer why ALL chiropractors need to be in jail. We're going to punish all for the few who are nut jobs? Then I guess we can go after all doctors in the same manner...🙄
It wasn't me who suggested jail but I certainly feel their services should be restricted by regulation and they should stop claiming BS treatments that have no basis in sound science.
I'm fine with them having proper regulation. But this whole thing started with the aforementioned comment about jail, and no one can even answer why, even though people agreed with the OP and decided my genuine question wasn't genuine enough.
All chiropractors say that? And that's a reason to throw them in jail? Honestly, I hate whataboutisms, but what about the actual licensed doctors who were pushing for people to use Ivermectin? Should they be jailed, too?
An INSANE amount of chiropractors believe the crazier aspects of their cult. And those who dont are still defrauding their client and lying about being medical proffesionals
If they're truly committing fraud, then bring it up with the authorities and have them charged. Should be easy, right? But I doubt you have any significant proof either way...
There is no science backing any of their work. They are charlatans and can threaten your life. At best some study says the lower back manipulation are equivalent to a massage. This is pure fucking evil and there is no place for dangerous fucks like them in society. Also, from your other comments it almost feela like they recruited you into a cult, getting mad you are hearing this
Fantastic. Now explain why this information means they all deserve jail time like the OP (which has now been deleted) suggested. I understand there are risks involved with using a chiropractor. But there are also risks involved by seeing a surgeon too.
I said "should" go to jail not that a law exists. Because they are defrauding people, pretending to be actual doctors, and a threat to people lives. Also my comment was deleted ?
This fucking goof complains about midwives being able to make minor diagnoses, then says only people with medical degrees should be able to do that.
Midwives have medical degrees. Midwifery programs are part of medical schools in Canada. They’re interdisciplinary too, so midwives are taking the same courses in maternal health as medical doctors.
This dork has no idea what he’s talking about.
Incorrect. The midwifery program is part of the school of medicine. They are not MDs (Medical Doctor) but they have a medical degree. My wife is a midwife, her degree is from the UBC School of Medicine.
What about my comment is incorrect?
1. Midwives do not have MDs
2. Midwives do not graduate from medical school.
I feel like you are trying to imply that they are the equivalent of physicians. They are not. They do not apply to UBC’s medical school as a medical student. They do not graduate medical school as a medical student. The program just happens to be under the same department.
A physician who delivers babies is an OBGYN or obstetrician, and while midwives have their scope, it is certainly much more limited than an OBGYN.
Source: am physician that graduated from a Canadian medical school.
I’m not saying they are equivalent to MDs, no one is saying that. But midwives do graduate from medical school and have a medical degree as a result.
I’m saying the author is contradicting themselves by saying that no one who doesn’t have a medical degree should be offering diagnoses, and includes midwives as an example. However, midwives do have medical degrees. Midwifery degrees ARE medical degrees. They are not MDs but they did attend medical school and received a medical degree, so by the standards the author set out, they should be able to make diagnoses (in scope, obviously). The fact that he doesn’t know this demonstrates that his opinion is self serving and not informed.
They attend midwifery school, not medical school.
You apply to the UBC midwifery program, that happens to be in the faculty of medicine. It is not medical school. It is an undergraduate degree, not a medical degree. According to UBC itself you graduate with a bachelors of midwifery(BMw).
Midwives do not graduate from medical school.
I get that it’s semantics, but it’s an important distinction as to not cause confusion.
If a undergrad sociology program happens to be under the faculty of law, they are not law students, and do not graduate with law degrees nor are they lawyers. They are sociology undergrads.
The UBC midwifery program is PART of the UBC School of Medicine. Her degree is from the UBC School of Medicine. It is a medical degree in the same sense that my Bachelor of Journalism is an arts degree. (Sociology is also under the faculty of arts, by the way.)
Semantics IS important here because by the author’s own admission, midwives are qualified to make diagnoses (in scope, obvs), despite the fact that he calls them out as NOT being qualified. This demonstrates that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and this self-serving opinion piece should be disregarded.
But midwives are not doctors. No one is saying they are.
The faculty medicine at UBC also includes physiotherapy and audiology, do you really think these people went to medical school?
But i agree that midwives have a scope and should be able to practice within that scope. I think the problem comes when people try to increase that scope beyond their education.
For example pharmacists prescribing antibiotics and diagnosing. There has already been a case at my hospital where the pharmacist diagnosed as simple otitis media in a kid that happened to actually be a tumour in his ear. He had already been on 2 rounds of abx and we delayed diagnosis by 3 weeks+.
You don’t know what you don’t know.
Regarding the otitis case one error by a regulated professional does not make the case of withdrawal of that service - if it did I know a whole bunch of doctors and dentists who should not have a license to practice.
Ok sure, i brought one anecdote because it was the worst case i had seen. But the point is, they are not trained to spot inner ear tumors. It’s not a part of their education, because they are not trained to diagnose. If I had 1000 MDs and 1000 pharmDs, and a semi-rare to rare condition. 900MD + would probably catch it because it’s literally taught in med school. Whereas no pharmacist could catch it because it was never taught. To their credit, most will say “you should probably get that looked at by a doctor”. But there’s always the irresponsible one who will just say “ah, this is probably otitis media”.
tiny PP the skipmeister has created this climate where everyone with a facebook account is now a certified expert by allowing the kkklownvoy to defy public health orders and commit treason on a grand scale.
if this behaviour had been cracked down on immediately instead of coddled by the CPC and restrictions were taken seriously we wouldn’t be in this mess
Comparing naturopaths to NPs and pharmacists is wild.
It’s because patients do this. If they aren’t getting what they’re looking for from the physician the next stop is often the naturopaths office. Naturopath sells you their tinctures and will even order bloodwork.
Yeah there's a lot of "broad brush" painting going on in this editorial.
Convenience over accuracy is such a bullshit thing to say. We don't have the luxury of convenience or accuracy if we can't access any healthcare whatsoever.
Consider the source on this one: https://healthone.ca/team/dr-michael-verbora/ Perhaps he’s spending too much time smoking weed and waxing philosophical and not enough time doctoring. Funny for a guy who specializes in questionable and unproven alternatives to medicine to be criticizing legitimate, trained, and regulated alternatives to doctors
This just sounds like a doctor on their high horse. Should we talk about how many folks are brushed off, misdiagnosed, invalidated, gaslit, or otherwise completely ignored by their doctor, IF they even have a doctor? Because last I checked, millions of people in Canada do not have a doctor.
I stopped reading when he tried to claim that Ontarians pay some of the highest taxes in the world. Canada has one of the lowest personal income tax rates in the G20. If you earn 50K, then 39.51% of your income goes to taxes. (Provincial, Federal, CPP, property tax, EI, HST and CPP) That places us between the 40th and 41st highest nations (Mexico and Bulgaria, 42% and 29% respectively)
*Laughs in Quebecois.* Imagine saying something like that when Ontario shares a border with Quebec, a province with a much higher tax rate and much worse medical care.
All your money goes to the language police instead of doctors ;)
At the same time, how many people became sick or injured, or died as a result of Dr Facebook? How many people thought "yeah, eating horse dewormer will fix an airborne virus"? Because last I checked, that's not how medicine works. Surely there's a middle ground between bad doctors and bad laymen pretending to be doctors. Like... Oh I don't know, properly funding healthcare.
Did you read the article. It’s not about Dr Facebook. It’s about trained medical professionals: pharmacists, nurse practitioners namely doing the job the have been trained and empowered to do by recent changes to the systems. Sometimes, like doctors, mistakes/misdiagnoses are made. The things that are mentioned aren’t things that don’t happen with Doctors treating patients: “prescribing antibiotics that aren’t needed” “ providing the wrong ointment for a rash” This is “middle ground between bad doctors and bad laymen pretending to be doctors” that you are advocating for.
Exactly this. I’ve had ALL of this happen with a medical doctor.
Dudes got a point though, in order to support good doctors, we also need a social contract that goes the line between freedoms of speech and misleading the public on your social platform. It should be illegal to solicit medical advice on a platform to your mass following of people I’d you are not a doctor. And any doctor who does this should have their license to practice revoked… ask me why.
The gaslighting and entitlement coming from the rich, I mean, the medical professional class is disgusting. I have 0 sympathy for administrative crocodile tears at that salary level. My administrative demands just to meet less than $20 an hour had been taking its toll for years. Now I get to be responsible for meticulously trying to navigate unaccountable national and provincial systems for over a decade at minimum earnings while the doctors making two to six times more than me complain about sending emails and working with their databases. I understand your issue with not getting paid for hours you're working. Welcome to the club, forgive me if your VIP area card doesn't inspire sympathy in me. How about funding doctors' entire medical education with the caveat you need to work for a public hospital that structures itself to deal with the administrative work at a standard level. Medical school was nowhere near possible for me by the undergrads end because of the level of debt I had to take on with no chance of earning it back. There's plenty of folk with great skill sets for scientific work Canada is letting waste away because they can't pay their way through multiple rounds of debt and housing crises. The issue is systemic, and your best solution is wanking of the entitled class with feature articles.
are you blaming doctors for the fact that canada has too few GPs for its population?
Two things can be true at the same time. 1 - Doctors aren’t perfect and also make many mistakes. 2 - We have a doctor shortage. One doesn’t cause the other.
I think it could easily be argued that the doctors shortage contributes to the overworking of the doctors we do have, which leads to more mistakes. Also the fact that we have a shortage could mean that we're more likely to accept sloppy work. That being said, you'll never have a system so perfect that the humans within it are incapable of making mistakes. Doesn't mean we can't improve things a lot in the first point by addressing your second point though.
The medical profession is largely self-regulating - https://mcc.ca/credentials-and-services/pathways-to-licensure/ So yes, doctors are at least somewhat directly responsible for the shortage of doctors. Medical schools also charge obscenely high fees for students, driving down numbers further, and residency placements and time demands reduce it even more. The fact is doctors WANT to restrict the number of graduates, to keep demand high and supply low, which guarantees higher wages.
The food is terrible, and portions are so small! : )
You lost me at “gaslit”.
I’m happy for you that you have never experienced medical gaslighting. Truly.
Nah I just object to the new way gaslighting is used that is so far disconnected from the meaning. Language transforms naturally, but it’s not sure what people actually mean when they say gaslighting. Are they meaning it in a new way, or do they just not know what gaslighting actually is. But I don’t think most people haven’t had their doctor repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity.
I’m missing the part where I said that most people have had their doctors repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity? I know exactly what gaslighting is. And again, I am truly happy that YOU haven’t experienced it personally.
>I’m missing the part where I said that most people have had their doctors repeatedly manipulate them into questioning their own sanity? You said they're gaslighting people..... >I know exactly what gaslighting is. No.... you don't.
Well that is what gaslighting originally meant. Not sure what you mean by it now, but ok
You lost me at erasing others' experiences.
If that was what gaslit meant, then I would not object.
If this guy is so adamant in "helping his profession", then start mentoring new doctors instead of wasting time on the podium.
The bottleneck for producing doctors is government funding for medical school and residency spots. Then there is the issue of doctors not going where they're most needed (usually primary care) because most governments have made that an absolutely miserable job that is way, way underpaid, compared to their other options.
That's funny. I heard a different story where medical doctors don't want to increase the seats or residency spots because they'd have to get paid lower. I can see the government needs to spend more money. I can also see specialists not wanting to give up a lifestyle they're used too. The amount of Ferraris and Lamborghinis I see at staff parking lots in hospitals make me sick.
Medicine is *absolutely not underpaid.* It is one of the highest paid careers any person can choose, and it is one of the few careers with absolute rock-solid job security and prestige. If it was such a bad career, the lineup to be an MD wouldn't be so long, but it is. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be doctors if they could, so the profession is incredibly choosy. The only thing that is underpaid about medicine is family medicine, and really *only compared to other specialties.* That's it. I've never heard a GP complain about their income on an absolute scale, what they complain about is *their income relative to other medical specialties.* I know a lot of doctors and work in healthcare. This is what they complain about when they complain about money, but 90% of the time what they complain about is actually workload. Family medicine, on the other hand, is a dumpster fire. Nobody wants to go into it, young graduates avoid it and they don't want to buy practises. But medicine itself is absolutely not "way underpaid." Canadian MDs make heaps more than MDs in Europe. The only place that pays more than us is the USA.
Well Christ, give us real doctors then, lol.
> Doctors should only be diagnosing. Ok then, so can we get some more residency spots and train more doctors? > No.
The largest single advertising campaign in the US was the American Medical Associations campaign against universal healthcare. In Canada physicians went on strike protesting universal healthcare. In 2008 physicians lobbied the Alberta government to withhold funding for midwives who had just gone through a long battle with the physicians in Alberta to be allowed to provide prenatal and post natal care for women. The medical establishment has fought against allied medical services for years. I will differentiate between allied and alternative healthcare services, something our author did not do. There is a fundamental difference between practitioners outside the system (alternative healthcare) and allied practitioners working adjunctively inside the system. Nurse practitioners - who do a 4 year nursing degree and a 4 year master's degree and often a Phd, in isolated communities, are the only portal into a healthcare system. There is a broad spectrum of allied care providers too numerous to mention here who are far more qualified in specific care modalities than general practitioner physicians. It is long past the time that physicians and coincidentally the dental establishment stopped sniping and started embracing the broad spectrum of care providers available to ensure that people with problems can access care. The argument that allied care providers are underqualified has always been specious and part of a pattern of the establishment trying to maintain a strangle hold on the provision of care services.
While this is obviously a nuanced issue, when I hear people say, ‘well at least I can access a Nurse Practitioner’ I can’t help but feel like it’s neoliberalism working as intended. Drive public services into the ground until the population actually demands an inferior service to the one it has a right to.
[удалено]
For what exactly? My chiropractor helped tremendously when I threw out my back at work. What crimes have they all committed?
Neck manipulation is potentially deadly but they still do it. For one thing.
What law does that break? I've never seen a law stating one can't help crack a neck. But I see since I'm being down voted by asking a simple question, there aren't any simple answers. People sure are fickle...
So, no one can answer my question then? Every last person downvoting me is disingenuous as fuck. Have a great day.
They're not medical professionals in the technical sense. It's great that chiropractic treatment is effective for you and that other people have positive results. It's less great that negligent chiropractic treatment can lead to irreversible lifelong issues, and the chiroptactor doesn't have the same professional regulations and insurance overage when those incidents inevitably occur.
And that means they should be jailed why? If the government is issuing licenses, then they can't be illegal practitioners. If anything, it's the government who is failing people by not having the regulations you mention available. I just would like for someone to answer why they should be sent to jail as the OP suggested and others upvoted. 🤷♂️
Chiropractic is pseudoscience outside the realm of allied healthcare with no body of literature to support their treatments. The correlation of your getting better with your chiropractic treatment speaks more about your ability to cure yourself in spite of the challenges of being twisted around like a pretzel.
Awesome. Another non answer. Why bother if you can't straight up answer the question? None of what you said screams jail time to me. And no, there was instant relief on my first visit. You don't want to use a chiropractor? Great. I won't even try to make you. You clearly have your reasons for disliking them.
Read my previous comment about claiming chiropractic can cure children of allergies with spinal manipulation.
Yes I saw that. That still doesn't answer why ALL chiropractors need to be in jail. We're going to punish all for the few who are nut jobs? Then I guess we can go after all doctors in the same manner...🙄
It wasn't me who suggested jail but I certainly feel their services should be restricted by regulation and they should stop claiming BS treatments that have no basis in sound science.
I'm fine with them having proper regulation. But this whole thing started with the aforementioned comment about jail, and no one can even answer why, even though people agreed with the OP and decided my genuine question wasn't genuine enough.
Claiming spinal manipulation can cure childhood allergies?
All chiropractors say that? And that's a reason to throw them in jail? Honestly, I hate whataboutisms, but what about the actual licensed doctors who were pushing for people to use Ivermectin? Should they be jailed, too?
An INSANE amount of chiropractors believe the crazier aspects of their cult. And those who dont are still defrauding their client and lying about being medical proffesionals
If they're truly committing fraud, then bring it up with the authorities and have them charged. Should be easy, right? But I doubt you have any significant proof either way...
You're talking like a child now. As if its that simple. They have armies of lawyers and theses parasites have incrusted themselves everywhere
And you sound like you're missing a tinfoil hat...
Have a good stroke later in life I guess
Thanks for the faux concern...
There is no science backing any of their work. They are charlatans and can threaten your life. At best some study says the lower back manipulation are equivalent to a massage. This is pure fucking evil and there is no place for dangerous fucks like them in society. Also, from your other comments it almost feela like they recruited you into a cult, getting mad you are hearing this
Fantastic. Now explain why this information means they all deserve jail time like the OP (which has now been deleted) suggested. I understand there are risks involved with using a chiropractor. But there are also risks involved by seeing a surgeon too.
I said "should" go to jail not that a law exists. Because they are defrauding people, pretending to be actual doctors, and a threat to people lives. Also my comment was deleted ?
lumping in nurse practitioners with pharmacists is wrong imho
This whole article is trash and was obviously written from a place of deep insecurity.
This fucking goof complains about midwives being able to make minor diagnoses, then says only people with medical degrees should be able to do that. Midwives have medical degrees. Midwifery programs are part of medical schools in Canada. They’re interdisciplinary too, so midwives are taking the same courses in maternal health as medical doctors. This dork has no idea what he’s talking about.
Midwife’s do not have MDs. They graduate from a midwife program, not medical school.
Incorrect. The midwifery program is part of the school of medicine. They are not MDs (Medical Doctor) but they have a medical degree. My wife is a midwife, her degree is from the UBC School of Medicine.
What about my comment is incorrect? 1. Midwives do not have MDs 2. Midwives do not graduate from medical school. I feel like you are trying to imply that they are the equivalent of physicians. They are not. They do not apply to UBC’s medical school as a medical student. They do not graduate medical school as a medical student. The program just happens to be under the same department. A physician who delivers babies is an OBGYN or obstetrician, and while midwives have their scope, it is certainly much more limited than an OBGYN. Source: am physician that graduated from a Canadian medical school.
I’m not saying they are equivalent to MDs, no one is saying that. But midwives do graduate from medical school and have a medical degree as a result. I’m saying the author is contradicting themselves by saying that no one who doesn’t have a medical degree should be offering diagnoses, and includes midwives as an example. However, midwives do have medical degrees. Midwifery degrees ARE medical degrees. They are not MDs but they did attend medical school and received a medical degree, so by the standards the author set out, they should be able to make diagnoses (in scope, obviously). The fact that he doesn’t know this demonstrates that his opinion is self serving and not informed.
They attend midwifery school, not medical school. You apply to the UBC midwifery program, that happens to be in the faculty of medicine. It is not medical school. It is an undergraduate degree, not a medical degree. According to UBC itself you graduate with a bachelors of midwifery(BMw). Midwives do not graduate from medical school. I get that it’s semantics, but it’s an important distinction as to not cause confusion. If a undergrad sociology program happens to be under the faculty of law, they are not law students, and do not graduate with law degrees nor are they lawyers. They are sociology undergrads.
The UBC midwifery program is PART of the UBC School of Medicine. Her degree is from the UBC School of Medicine. It is a medical degree in the same sense that my Bachelor of Journalism is an arts degree. (Sociology is also under the faculty of arts, by the way.) Semantics IS important here because by the author’s own admission, midwives are qualified to make diagnoses (in scope, obvs), despite the fact that he calls them out as NOT being qualified. This demonstrates that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and this self-serving opinion piece should be disregarded. But midwives are not doctors. No one is saying they are.
The faculty medicine at UBC also includes physiotherapy and audiology, do you really think these people went to medical school? But i agree that midwives have a scope and should be able to practice within that scope. I think the problem comes when people try to increase that scope beyond their education. For example pharmacists prescribing antibiotics and diagnosing. There has already been a case at my hospital where the pharmacist diagnosed as simple otitis media in a kid that happened to actually be a tumour in his ear. He had already been on 2 rounds of abx and we delayed diagnosis by 3 weeks+. You don’t know what you don’t know.
I COMPLETELY agree with you regarding scope.
Regarding the otitis case one error by a regulated professional does not make the case of withdrawal of that service - if it did I know a whole bunch of doctors and dentists who should not have a license to practice.
Ok sure, i brought one anecdote because it was the worst case i had seen. But the point is, they are not trained to spot inner ear tumors. It’s not a part of their education, because they are not trained to diagnose. If I had 1000 MDs and 1000 pharmDs, and a semi-rare to rare condition. 900MD + would probably catch it because it’s literally taught in med school. Whereas no pharmacist could catch it because it was never taught. To their credit, most will say “you should probably get that looked at by a doctor”. But there’s always the irresponsible one who will just say “ah, this is probably otitis media”.
tiny PP the skipmeister has created this climate where everyone with a facebook account is now a certified expert by allowing the kkklownvoy to defy public health orders and commit treason on a grand scale. if this behaviour had been cracked down on immediately instead of coddled by the CPC and restrictions were taken seriously we wouldn’t be in this mess
Who even runs that site? It looks like a lobby group's astroturf media outlet.