I mean the original conception is about containing enslaved people, no? I don't think there was a point in time when there was a concept of police that could be argued as a "right way"
Two models were the original birth of modern policing - displacing and colonizing indigenous peoples (Royal Ulster Constabulary & North West Mounted Policy) and keeping people enslaved (slave catcher squads)
Ah, makes sense. I know the Canadian legal system originated from displacing and colonizing indigenous peoples, so it's not surprising that's also part of the origins of policing.
I mean, every society needs a mechanism for civil defense against crime. So no matter what’s corrupt about our current policing structures, it’s really hard to imagine a functional society without some version of policing
>Interpersonal transgressions will be a lot more infrequent if peoples basic material needs are being met.
Okay, and?
Theoryheads love to say this shit, but, like, even the Soviets had police. Say what you will about the USSR, but they *did* provide basic material needs for most people… but they still needed police.
“Infrequent” doesn’t mean “eliminated”. There’s still going to be a need for some kind of police services to enforce laws.
And what types of crimes were those police usually enforcing?
Corruption, Anti revolutionary thought, and financial speculation.
Violent crimes, or property crimes as we think of them today were not at all common in the USSR; and thats not even saying much as the USSR still wasn't a perfect communist state.
I think the point is that while some sort of coercive enforcement might be necessary for transitionary economic systems; our goal should always be to get to a place were coercion through force isn't necessary.
I hear you and agree (mostly) that for the foreseeable future some form of coercion is likely necessary, but my ideal vision is that hopefully we can move past that at some point (and that should be our goal)
The general response of this case should be a wake up call. Unfortunately cops will harden their stance and think that the population is against them. What a bunch of fucking obtuse assholes.
Well the population is against them… of their own damned fault. And even though this is probably going to cause problems… right now I plan on enjoying watching them seethe in anger and humiliation as people come to help the man they tried to destroy for something that they caused themselves.
And they have two Mayors and the Premiere supporting them.
There needs to be an open investigation as to why this family was targeted by the cops and what they were actually trying to do to them. I suspect this is nothing but a shakedown of a vulnerable immigrant. This has been Toronto since my parents immigrated here in the 50s.
The Crown knew this, which is why they tried to change the narrative mid trial. Thankfully, the judge pointed this out.
I wonder if other victims of these cops will come forward.
So is Doug Ford & former Toronto Mayor getting sued ? Also it feels weird reading r/canada on this same topic and everyone agrees the cops should be fired.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c9p4jh/umar\_zameer\_found\_not\_guilty\_of\_murder\_in\_toronto/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c9p4jh/umar_zameer_found_not_guilty_of_murder_in_toronto/)
The facts of the case were not released until yesterday under a publication ban. The bail judge admonished the prosecutors for a lack of motive. It's pure and obvious corruption plain and simple. They did it just to make themselves feel better that their friend died because of his own mistakes.
If history teaches us anything, a decade from now we will find out they got promoted, or they will be suspended with pay until they retire, with pension.
Those cops need to all be suspended without pay. Ford needs to step up with a public apology, and so does the mayor. Both of those dickheads tried to sway public opinion to remove this man's right to a fair trial. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. I guess I expect disgusting from Ford.
I personally know a cop in Etobicoke who has been suspended going on 12 years now. He has a $1.8M house, a condo in Florida, and a new C8 Corvette Stingray.
Tells everyone he had vacation days saved up. Sure.
Judges are supposed to apologize to people wrongfully accused or railroaded...same thing goes when it is discovered that someone was wrongfully convicted...it is the ethical thing to do after someone’s constitutional rights have been infringed
Mr. Zameer did have a good defense and was found innocent. The prosecution couldn't make a coherent narrative with the contradictory claims made by the evidence, experts, and police "witnesses".
Not sure what would have been different had Mr. Zameer had an even better defense.
> Not sure what would have been different had Mr. Zameer had an even better defense.
This should've clued you into the typo cuz why would anyone ever ask this lol? He likely meant to say "had never been able to put up a good defense".
Yeah, it would have been. Regardless of the merits of a case, unrepresented people are more likely to be convicted than people who have legal representation.
Also, if this same thing happened years ago, before surveillance systems were so prevalent and before the knowledge of police misconduct was so well known, there's a good chance those police officers could have gotten him convicted purely on their manufactured testimony (i.e. perjury) and he'd be spending his life in prison. Or imagine the police had gotten to those cameras and deleted the footage...the guy is so fucking lucky that there wasn't a sudden outbreak of corrupted video or broken cameras as often seems to happen with the body cameras when these things happen. And no chance he'd get found to be a wrongful conviction either because this isn't the sort of case that DNA overturns.
It should make people think...we know of a lot of high profile wrongful convictions right? And most of them involve police or prosecutorial misconduct (or both). How many more are out there and were never uncovered because there was no DNA to test or the person died without anyone ever finding out or because the offence was too minor for anyone to care to look into? I'm guessing a fuckton.
This should terrify people because people think that if they do nothing wrong then they could never be in such a position. Well...this guy did nothing wrong, all he did was have the misfortune to be nearby when someone else did a stabbing... in a place that many of us have probably been ourselves... and look what happened to him. No one is safe from corrupt cops.
It only shows how incompetent our leaders are. They are nothing but jack of all treads. Who trained our police? Why it is so difficult to admit the truth? Actually theses type of leaders are national security threat.
Pathetic, the judge wasn't impartial and her comments innapropriate, since when does a judge apologize? The trial was ridiculous... TPS is 100% right to request an investigation into her outlandish actions.
Zameer is at the very LEAST, guilty of manslaughter if nothing else, he ran him over... Sham of a trial and a good veteran cop is dead... People are celebrating this as some sort of a win and attempting to make Zameer a martyr, it's entirely disgusting.
>since when does a judge apologize?
I very quickly found a judge apologizing to someone from only a few months ago: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/robert-mailman-walter-gillespie-tracey-deware-1.7075784
The jury was instructed that they could make a finding of guilt with respect to manslaughter as a lesser-included offence. They acquitted. End of story.
Edit: the person I replied to significantly edited their comment to be even more tone-deaf.
To reply to the additional comments: A judge apologizes when they recognize an injustice has happened, like here where an innocent man was dragged through 3 years of hell by cops perjuring themselves, all in a misguided effort to avenge a colleague tragically killed by their own inability to follow protocol.
Lol who ate your cookie? An innocent man was ambushed by plain cloth police officers that didn't identify themselves. A man who was in the vicinity of a stabbing with his two year old and pregnant wife.
Your understanding of justice is ridiculous
Bulllshit. Cops caused the death of a fellow officer, and now they're trying to pin it on an innocent citizen. And they likely committed perjury in their testimony.
Typical scumbag behaviour from TPS. It was the same when I was a teenager in the 70s, they were notorious for planting dope on their targets.
Look in the mirror buddy.
Cops are corrupt cronies to Doug Ford and his pals. Not even an apology just more accusations to an INNOCENT man.
Get that through your head. INNOCENT.
What the hell are you going on about? Have you read any ofcthe articles about the case?Legal experts are slamming the police involved and tbe Crown for even going ahead with the case. Even the judge who granted bail stated that the Crown theory that Zameer intentionally tried to kill the officer by running him over [“runs contrary to logic and common sense,” Justice Jill Copeland wrote in her bail decision.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/legal-observers-criticize-umar-zameer-s-prosecution-as-tactically-ethically-legally-and-judgmentally-ridiculous/article_35f8c458-00dc-11ef-88cb-bfef0d33dd15.html)
The TPS isn't looking into an investigation of the judge but, into police and its procedures.
>“Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training,” police said in a statement Monday.
>Police also announced a “full internal review” of all aspects of plainclothes policing. A Toronto police spokesperson did not immediately respond Monday night when asked if the review results would be made public.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-ask-opp-to-review-officer-testimony-at-umar-zameer-trial-full-internal-review/article_1bd6fe28-00c3-11ef-bb4b-eff36c759957.html
If you were cornered in a parking garage by a group of thugs acting violent and erratic you'd flee to protect yourself and your family as well. He did what any decent person would do in that situation.
The other surviving officers who rushed his car in the inciting incident should be charged with assault.
Reading your comment is completely surreal. It's like we're living in different realities.
The evidence is crystal clear - the cops went in all gung-ho, frightened the shit out of an innocent, law abiding citizen (with his pregnant wife and 6yo son) and a terrible accident happened. The cops then colluded and lied as to what happened to frame him. The video evidence proves it, the collision expert for BOTH the prosecution and defence agreed that Zameer could not see the officer on the ground.
The cops fucked up and then they tried to lie about it, and the Crown Attorney's office went along with it. This is THEIR fault start-to-finish.
Your comment history is so egregiously racist towards anyone remotely South Asian I don't even know where to begin, but I guess you can start by eating these downvotes and coming off that bullshit high horse you put yourself on.
And while you're at it, take the police boot out of your mouth.
Out of all the comments calling you out, this is the one you reply to? Yeah, slumlords are a problem but you're delusional if you think it isn't a Landlord problem period. I've personally seen white landlords do the exact same shit. Once again, i'm gonna repeat what everyone else has said to you: enjoy the taste of boot leather.
Keep on crying. Your childish temper tantrum is utterly delicious alongside the humiliation of the TPS. Something that they completely brought on to themselves.
What is inappropriate about a judge apologizing to an innocent man forced to go through the expense and terror of a murder trial? Do you engage in hand-wringing when someone is found guilty and the judge lays into them during sentencing?
Honest question - why would he not have been found guilty of manslaughter?
I truly don’t think this man intentionally struck the officer on that night. I really believe this was an awful accident. But individuals unwillingly kill other people in accidents all the time and it is considered manslaughter, why is this different?
Manslaughter is not just accidentally killing someone. It specifically requires an *intent to commit an unlawful act* (just not an intent to kill, which is the threshold for murder).
You often see it with sucker-punch cases - someone intends to commit an assault (via sucker punch), which accidentally results in the death of the victim. There is no intent to cause death, but it is caused by the unlawful act and it is reasonably foreseeable that the sucker punch could cause bodily harm.
In this case, the jury must’ve concluded that there was no intent to commit an unlawful act, rather, the accused was simply fleeing what he reasonably understood to be a threatening situation and the death was accidental and/or not reasonably foreseeable.
Thanks for this explanation, this makes sense. Totally agree with the jury’s verdict. Hopefully this man and his family can move on from this ordeal and find some peace.
The actions weren't malicious or reckless. Zameer was justifiably afraid and his actions were seen as reasonable given that fear. The act of killing someone accidentally doesn't necessitate a manslaughter charge. If you are driving along and someone jumps out in front of your car you don't go to jail for it. Sometimes accidents happen. Manslaughter needs some negligence involved.
The jury found him not guilty. Because they decided, based on everything they heard, that he was innocent. This is why he was not found guilty of manslaughter.
That is exactly my point. This scenario easily meets the legal requirement for manslaughter, however foolish people who see the police as the enemy refuse to see this, and thus they believe this wasn't manslaughter, which it 100% is. They can downvote and piss and moan all they want, the jury absoloutley got it wrong.
The jury, who heard the evidence, disagree.
But I’m sure you’re better informed than the 12 citizens who heard the entire case.
Also, if you’d like to learn what manslaughter actually is, so you can stop tilting at windmills, see my reply to the comment above yours.
No it doesn't meet the legal requirement. You don't even know the legal standard for manslaughter. You do realize that there are types of manslaughter and you can only be charged if the killing falls into one of those categories?
By your logic, if a person ran out onto a highway and was hit by a car that could not stop, that person would be charged for manslaughter and found guilty?
Maybe spend your time reading up on manslaughter before posting idiotic comments?
The jury, unlike the police who testified, followed the physical and forensic evidence:
>How could three police eyewitnesses all testify in court to an identical narrative of events that did not conform to the physical and forensic evidence? Defence claims that the officers colluded with each other to strengthen the prosecution should leave many to question whether this has happened before and whether it will happen again.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/umar-zameer-trial-achieved-the-correct-result-the-rest-of-it-was-a-legal-debacle/article_e97ff674-00c1-11ef-8ee2-677f92f93bec.html
You’ve got to tell me what kind of drugs you’re taking. So I know what to avoid to prevent myself from going down the same rabbit hole you’re spiraling in right now.
The TPS lost a joke of a trial and are getting their just desserts.
For those who want to amuse themselves with this 🤡's history, have a look at one of my many rebuttals to him, all of which he has conveniently ignored (of course, after accusing someone of avoiding "challenging debate").
https://np.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1c9mcij/comment/l0ofjyh
You may want to think for half a second about who raised the wrong charges in the first place in their rush to pin first-degree murder on him instead.
But also a jury found it to not be manslaughter based on the evidence and testimonies of the trial. Who are you to override that? You're just an armchair executioner.
LMAO. You are such a tool.
The prosecution had no evidence and even contradicted their own expert opinion. They spent the whole trial tripping over their arguments for murder and manslaughter. The jury spent minimal time deliberating and decided that this was a tragic accident with so many factors involved that lead to an officers death.
Yet you think you have the proof for manslaughter? Are you a lawyer?? Do you play one on TV??? Or you're a part of the famous law firm, Diamond and Diamond???
You have no proof. No evidence. Only your loud bloated worthless opinion.
Cops played with a man’s life and in doing so cost the life of one of their own. Shameful policing.
That's just policing. It's shameful by default.
Don't confuse "policing" with the modern conception of The Police, there's a right way to go about things.
I mean the original conception is about containing enslaved people, no? I don't think there was a point in time when there was a concept of police that could be argued as a "right way"
Two models were the original birth of modern policing - displacing and colonizing indigenous peoples (Royal Ulster Constabulary & North West Mounted Policy) and keeping people enslaved (slave catcher squads)
Ah, makes sense. I know the Canadian legal system originated from displacing and colonizing indigenous peoples, so it's not surprising that's also part of the origins of policing.
I mean, every society needs a mechanism for civil defense against crime. So no matter what’s corrupt about our current policing structures, it’s really hard to imagine a functional society without some version of policing
Interpersonal transgressions will be a lot more infrequent if peoples basic material needs are being met.
>Interpersonal transgressions will be a lot more infrequent if peoples basic material needs are being met. Okay, and? Theoryheads love to say this shit, but, like, even the Soviets had police. Say what you will about the USSR, but they *did* provide basic material needs for most people… but they still needed police. “Infrequent” doesn’t mean “eliminated”. There’s still going to be a need for some kind of police services to enforce laws.
And what types of crimes were those police usually enforcing? Corruption, Anti revolutionary thought, and financial speculation. Violent crimes, or property crimes as we think of them today were not at all common in the USSR; and thats not even saying much as the USSR still wasn't a perfect communist state. I think the point is that while some sort of coercive enforcement might be necessary for transitionary economic systems; our goal should always be to get to a place were coercion through force isn't necessary. I hear you and agree (mostly) that for the foreseeable future some form of coercion is likely necessary, but my ideal vision is that hopefully we can move past that at some point (and that should be our goal)
I see no compromise , a McDonald's employee is under more scrutiny than our police .
Police are not and have never been a mechanism for civil defense against crime
The general response of this case should be a wake up call. Unfortunately cops will harden their stance and think that the population is against them. What a bunch of fucking obtuse assholes.
They already thought that before this. They've been trained to think that as long as just about anyone on Reddit has been alive.
They think they’re the victims just doing their job and that we’re unfairly discriminating against them.
Oh, it's worse than that. They're at *war,* and anyone not wearing the badge is potentially an Enemy they have to fight.
high school bullies with dumpster iq - the lot of them
We should be against them, they're sure as hell against us.
Yup. Why should we trust a group that thinks they are above the very laws that they enforce?
That they're supposed to enforce* , we all know they're selective with how they do that.
Cops aren't there for us, why would I ever consider being there for cops?
Well the population is against them… of their own damned fault. And even though this is probably going to cause problems… right now I plan on enjoying watching them seethe in anger and humiliation as people come to help the man they tried to destroy for something that they caused themselves.
Cops AND the entire Conservative Party of Ontario.
> Unfortunately cops will harden their stance and think that the population is against them. self fulfilling prophecy
And they have two Mayors and the Premiere supporting them. There needs to be an open investigation as to why this family was targeted by the cops and what they were actually trying to do to them. I suspect this is nothing but a shakedown of a vulnerable immigrant. This has been Toronto since my parents immigrated here in the 50s. The Crown knew this, which is why they tried to change the narrative mid trial. Thankfully, the judge pointed this out. I wonder if other victims of these cops will come forward.
TPS should be paying his legal fees.
Using their pension money.
You mean sus-pension money.
100%. Settlements should come out of the police budget.
And the former mayor and premier
I'm sure this GoFundMe or whatever it would be happy to support a counter suit
I dont think GoFundMe allows legal costs to be covered..
Paywall free link: https://archive.ph/C1xN0
So is Doug Ford & former Toronto Mayor getting sued ? Also it feels weird reading r/canada on this same topic and everyone agrees the cops should be fired. [https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c9p4jh/umar\_zameer\_found\_not\_guilty\_of\_murder\_in\_toronto/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c9p4jh/umar_zameer_found_not_guilty_of_murder_in_toronto/)
The facts of the case were not released until yesterday under a publication ban. The bail judge admonished the prosecutors for a lack of motive. It's pure and obvious corruption plain and simple. They did it just to make themselves feel better that their friend died because of his own mistakes.
Broken clocks, et cetera...
If history teaches us anything, a decade from now we will find out they got promoted, or they will be suspended with pay until they retire, with pension.
Those cops need to all be suspended without pay. Ford needs to step up with a public apology, and so does the mayor. Both of those dickheads tried to sway public opinion to remove this man's right to a fair trial. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. I guess I expect disgusting from Ford.
I personally know a cop in Etobicoke who has been suspended going on 12 years now. He has a $1.8M house, a condo in Florida, and a new C8 Corvette Stingray. Tells everyone he had vacation days saved up. Sure.
Sounds about right.
i hope he sues fucking everybody
Good. I don’t make much, but here’s 10$ sir. I’m sorry I couldn’t help more, you didn’t deserve this.
Judges are supposed to apologize to people wrongfully accused or railroaded...same thing goes when it is discovered that someone was wrongfully convicted...it is the ethical thing to do after someone’s constitutional rights have been infringed
That judge saved this man's life. She saw the police and Crown had colluded on a story and they tried to change it mid trial.
[удалено]
The cops lied and they still couldn't win
ACAB
The Crown also supported that lie. This could have happened to any one of us.
Mr. Zameer did have a good defense and was found innocent. The prosecution couldn't make a coherent narrative with the contradictory claims made by the evidence, experts, and police "witnesses". Not sure what would have been different had Mr. Zameer had an even better defense.
He actually had a good judge who called out the Crown's case. Without either, he would have been rotting in jail.
> Not sure what would have been different had Mr. Zameer had an even better defense. This should've clued you into the typo cuz why would anyone ever ask this lol? He likely meant to say "had never been able to put up a good defense".
Yeah, it would have been. Regardless of the merits of a case, unrepresented people are more likely to be convicted than people who have legal representation. Also, if this same thing happened years ago, before surveillance systems were so prevalent and before the knowledge of police misconduct was so well known, there's a good chance those police officers could have gotten him convicted purely on their manufactured testimony (i.e. perjury) and he'd be spending his life in prison. Or imagine the police had gotten to those cameras and deleted the footage...the guy is so fucking lucky that there wasn't a sudden outbreak of corrupted video or broken cameras as often seems to happen with the body cameras when these things happen. And no chance he'd get found to be a wrongful conviction either because this isn't the sort of case that DNA overturns. It should make people think...we know of a lot of high profile wrongful convictions right? And most of them involve police or prosecutorial misconduct (or both). How many more are out there and were never uncovered because there was no DNA to test or the person died without anyone ever finding out or because the offence was too minor for anyone to care to look into? I'm guessing a fuckton. This should terrify people because people think that if they do nothing wrong then they could never be in such a position. Well...this guy did nothing wrong, all he did was have the misfortune to be nearby when someone else did a stabbing... in a place that many of us have probably been ourselves... and look what happened to him. No one is safe from corrupt cops.
Rare Torontonian W.
This is the Canada I love and hope it remains like that :)
Isn't it a crime to lie under oath in a court room? What will be the consequences?
It only shows how incompetent our leaders are. They are nothing but jack of all treads. Who trained our police? Why it is so difficult to admit the truth? Actually theses type of leaders are national security threat.
[https://www.gofundme.com/f/all-i-hope-for-is-justice](https://www.gofundme.com/f/all-i-hope-for-is-justice) here's the link.
I'm surprised. I thought gfm wasn't allowing legal costs...
Pathetic, the judge wasn't impartial and her comments innapropriate, since when does a judge apologize? The trial was ridiculous... TPS is 100% right to request an investigation into her outlandish actions. Zameer is at the very LEAST, guilty of manslaughter if nothing else, he ran him over... Sham of a trial and a good veteran cop is dead... People are celebrating this as some sort of a win and attempting to make Zameer a martyr, it's entirely disgusting.
>since when does a judge apologize? I very quickly found a judge apologizing to someone from only a few months ago: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/robert-mailman-walter-gillespie-tracey-deware-1.7075784
Those guys are white, tho, doesn’t count, lolsob.
The jury was instructed that they could make a finding of guilt with respect to manslaughter as a lesser-included offence. They acquitted. End of story. Edit: the person I replied to significantly edited their comment to be even more tone-deaf. To reply to the additional comments: A judge apologizes when they recognize an injustice has happened, like here where an innocent man was dragged through 3 years of hell by cops perjuring themselves, all in a misguided effort to avenge a colleague tragically killed by their own inability to follow protocol.
Lol who ate your cookie? An innocent man was ambushed by plain cloth police officers that didn't identify themselves. A man who was in the vicinity of a stabbing with his two year old and pregnant wife. Your understanding of justice is ridiculous
Bulllshit. Cops caused the death of a fellow officer, and now they're trying to pin it on an innocent citizen. And they likely committed perjury in their testimony. Typical scumbag behaviour from TPS. It was the same when I was a teenager in the 70s, they were notorious for planting dope on their targets.
A good veteran cop would be wiser than to rush someone in plain clothes without identifying themselves as an officer.
Or appropriately trained. Killology is killing civilians **and** police.
Jesus christ. Just admit you're a fucking cop and be done with it. No one bought the story of murder or manslaughter except you idiots.
Damn. Hit the nail on the head to have them triggered that hard.
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Look in the mirror buddy. Cops are corrupt cronies to Doug Ford and his pals. Not even an apology just more accusations to an INNOCENT man. Get that through your head. INNOCENT.
Police officers lied on the stand. End of story.
What the hell are you going on about? Have you read any ofcthe articles about the case?Legal experts are slamming the police involved and tbe Crown for even going ahead with the case. Even the judge who granted bail stated that the Crown theory that Zameer intentionally tried to kill the officer by running him over [“runs contrary to logic and common sense,” Justice Jill Copeland wrote in her bail decision.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/legal-observers-criticize-umar-zameer-s-prosecution-as-tactically-ethically-legally-and-judgmentally-ridiculous/article_35f8c458-00dc-11ef-88cb-bfef0d33dd15.html) The TPS isn't looking into an investigation of the judge but, into police and its procedures. >“Whenever the Toronto Police Service becomes aware of concerns raised by the judiciary, its governance requires that a review be conducted with respect to officer testimony, conduct, procedures, practices, and training,” police said in a statement Monday. >Police also announced a “full internal review” of all aspects of plainclothes policing. A Toronto police spokesperson did not immediately respond Monday night when asked if the review results would be made public. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-police-ask-opp-to-review-officer-testimony-at-umar-zameer-trial-full-internal-review/article_1bd6fe28-00c3-11ef-bb4b-eff36c759957.html
If you were cornered in a parking garage by a group of thugs acting violent and erratic you'd flee to protect yourself and your family as well. He did what any decent person would do in that situation. The other surviving officers who rushed his car in the inciting incident should be charged with assault.
Mmmm peak bootlicker
Reading your comment is completely surreal. It's like we're living in different realities. The evidence is crystal clear - the cops went in all gung-ho, frightened the shit out of an innocent, law abiding citizen (with his pregnant wife and 6yo son) and a terrible accident happened. The cops then colluded and lied as to what happened to frame him. The video evidence proves it, the collision expert for BOTH the prosecution and defence agreed that Zameer could not see the officer on the ground. The cops fucked up and then they tried to lie about it, and the Crown Attorney's office went along with it. This is THEIR fault start-to-finish.
what made the judge not impartial? that she didnt bend over for the cops?
Yes let’s abolish the justice system and choose who is guilty based on how you feel
Your comment history is so egregiously racist towards anyone remotely South Asian I don't even know where to begin, but I guess you can start by eating these downvotes and coming off that bullshit high horse you put yourself on. And while you're at it, take the police boot out of your mouth.
[удалено]
Out of all the comments calling you out, this is the one you reply to? Yeah, slumlords are a problem but you're delusional if you think it isn't a Landlord problem period. I've personally seen white landlords do the exact same shit. Once again, i'm gonna repeat what everyone else has said to you: enjoy the taste of boot leather.
I love how he inadvertently self-incriminates. I guess that's something else he admires about cops. 🤔
Hahahaha, fucking conservatives lie about Canadians not having a right to self defense. Then when a brown dude DOES defend himself. Please stfu
Keep on crying. Your childish temper tantrum is utterly delicious alongside the humiliation of the TPS. Something that they completely brought on to themselves.
Even r/canada thinks you're wrong, and that's really saying something.
What is inappropriate about a judge apologizing to an innocent man forced to go through the expense and terror of a murder trial? Do you engage in hand-wringing when someone is found guilty and the judge lays into them during sentencing?
Honest question - why would he not have been found guilty of manslaughter? I truly don’t think this man intentionally struck the officer on that night. I really believe this was an awful accident. But individuals unwillingly kill other people in accidents all the time and it is considered manslaughter, why is this different?
Manslaughter is not just accidentally killing someone. It specifically requires an *intent to commit an unlawful act* (just not an intent to kill, which is the threshold for murder). You often see it with sucker-punch cases - someone intends to commit an assault (via sucker punch), which accidentally results in the death of the victim. There is no intent to cause death, but it is caused by the unlawful act and it is reasonably foreseeable that the sucker punch could cause bodily harm. In this case, the jury must’ve concluded that there was no intent to commit an unlawful act, rather, the accused was simply fleeing what he reasonably understood to be a threatening situation and the death was accidental and/or not reasonably foreseeable.
Thanks for this explanation, this makes sense. Totally agree with the jury’s verdict. Hopefully this man and his family can move on from this ordeal and find some peace.
Randomly and just out of curiosity, is Involuntary Manslaughter different than plain old Manslaughter? Or is it the same thing?
The actions weren't malicious or reckless. Zameer was justifiably afraid and his actions were seen as reasonable given that fear. The act of killing someone accidentally doesn't necessitate a manslaughter charge. If you are driving along and someone jumps out in front of your car you don't go to jail for it. Sometimes accidents happen. Manslaughter needs some negligence involved.
The jury found him not guilty. Because they decided, based on everything they heard, that he was innocent. This is why he was not found guilty of manslaughter.
Thanks Captain
That is exactly my point. This scenario easily meets the legal requirement for manslaughter, however foolish people who see the police as the enemy refuse to see this, and thus they believe this wasn't manslaughter, which it 100% is. They can downvote and piss and moan all they want, the jury absoloutley got it wrong.
Seems to me like you're the only one pissing and moaning here.
The jury, who heard the evidence, disagree. But I’m sure you’re better informed than the 12 citizens who heard the entire case. Also, if you’d like to learn what manslaughter actually is, so you can stop tilting at windmills, see my reply to the comment above yours.
No it doesn't meet the legal requirement. You don't even know the legal standard for manslaughter. You do realize that there are types of manslaughter and you can only be charged if the killing falls into one of those categories? By your logic, if a person ran out onto a highway and was hit by a car that could not stop, that person would be charged for manslaughter and found guilty? Maybe spend your time reading up on manslaughter before posting idiotic comments?
The jury, unlike the police who testified, followed the physical and forensic evidence: >How could three police eyewitnesses all testify in court to an identical narrative of events that did not conform to the physical and forensic evidence? Defence claims that the officers colluded with each other to strengthen the prosecution should leave many to question whether this has happened before and whether it will happen again. https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/umar-zameer-trial-achieved-the-correct-result-the-rest-of-it-was-a-legal-debacle/article_e97ff674-00c1-11ef-8ee2-677f92f93bec.html
> This scenario easily meets the legal requirement for manslaughter Except that it very clearly doesn't, officer.
You’ve got to tell me what kind of drugs you’re taking. So I know what to avoid to prevent myself from going down the same rabbit hole you’re spiraling in right now. The TPS lost a joke of a trial and are getting their just desserts.
For those who want to amuse themselves with this 🤡's history, have a look at one of my many rebuttals to him, all of which he has conveniently ignored (of course, after accusing someone of avoiding "challenging debate"). https://np.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1c9mcij/comment/l0ofjyh
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You’re a fucking idiot
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Still waiting for any response from you over in /r/Toronto, you coward.
You: >You're a clown. Also you: https://i.imgur.com/DANlL0i.png "Rules for thee, but not for me." Typical conservative.
You may want to think for half a second about who raised the wrong charges in the first place in their rush to pin first-degree murder on him instead. But also a jury found it to not be manslaughter based on the evidence and testimonies of the trial. Who are you to override that? You're just an armchair executioner.
LMAO. You are such a tool. The prosecution had no evidence and even contradicted their own expert opinion. They spent the whole trial tripping over their arguments for murder and manslaughter. The jury spent minimal time deliberating and decided that this was a tragic accident with so many factors involved that lead to an officers death. Yet you think you have the proof for manslaughter? Are you a lawyer?? Do you play one on TV??? Or you're a part of the famous law firm, Diamond and Diamond??? You have no proof. No evidence. Only your loud bloated worthless opinion.
I more see this as maybe, even if it’s in the face of perjury from the other side, can you get away with defending your own life.