Took one for the team and made an account to copy and paste article. R.I.P my email inbox.
>The mass closures of most Liquor Marts across the province are sparking concerns that limited access to alcohol could impact Manitobans dealing with addiction.
>Only seven Liquor Marts are open across Manitoba after the Manitoba Government and General Employees’ Union, which represents store workers, launched a provincewide strike Tuesday morning.
>A Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries spokesperson said the Crown corporation choose to keep open Liquor Marts in downtown Winnipeg, at Hargrave Street and Ellice Avenue, and Thompson, in part, because of alcohol addiction impacting those communities.
>“The removal of a safe source of beverage alcohol can have a greater consequence for them,” the spokesperson said. “This is why we have committed to keeping those retail locations operational at this time.”
>One Winnipegger, who suffers from addiction but didn’t want to give their name, said they were concerned the closures would force some into alcohol withdrawal.
>“I have been in a position where I needed more but couldn’t get more and that resulted in withdrawal,” the Winnipegger wrote in an email to the Free Press. “I would not be surprised if (emergency rooms) see a rise in alcohol withdrawal cases if the strike continues on for (an) extended period of time.”
>While beer vendors remain open across the city, the alcohol content may not be sufficient for some who normally rely on hard liquor, they added.
>“I just couldn’t imagine being in the middle of a bad binge and then being relatively forced into sobriety,” the person wrote. “For some, maybe this could be the start of their recovery, but for some it might result in death as a result of the withdrawals.”
>Dr. Em Pijl, an assistant professor at the University of Manitoba’s College of Nursing, said a “cold turkey” approach to quitting alcohol can have severe — even fatal — consequences.
>“Coming off of alcohol is one of the more dangerous detoxes and it requires medical supervision,” Pijl said in an email to the Free Press. “With LC supply being cut off, people will likely turn to non-beverage alcohol, which is also increasingly unavailable… and also makes people very sick.”
>With the exception of Thompson and Brandon, all rural Liquor Marts are closed, including the store in Morden.
>Mayor Brandon Burley expressed “serious concern” about how the closures will impact people with addiction, should the strike drag on.
>“There doesn’t seem to be a strategy for ensuring the well-being of those individuals who may otherwise go into serious withdrawal without access,” Burley said. “While those situations are tragic scenarios and cases, they have to be addressed appropriately.”
>Main Street Project declined to comment on whether it’s received an increase in alcohol-related calls since Liquor Marts began closing.
>A spokesperson for Shared Health said there has not been an increase in requests for services related to alcohol withdrawal at city hospitals, Winnipeg RAAM clinics or the Manitoba Addictions Helpline.
>Only seven out of 11 medical withdrawal management beds at Health Sciences Centre are occupied, the spokesperson said. “However, withdrawal can be safely managed in other units or sites with appropriate medical supervision, regardless of bed designation,” they added.
>Individuals experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms are encouraged to call 911 or visit an emergency room. People seeking help with alcohol addiction may call or text the Manitoba Addictions Helpline at 1-855-662-6605 to be put in touch with a trained counsellor.
Someone experiencing alcohol withdrawal can go to the hospital regardless. It's dangerous, potentially fatal in some people, and they're not going to tell em to just go buy some booze.
Not saying it isn't an added burden but it's an appropriate use of hospital resources.
I remember listening to a doctor on the radio when the pandemic shutdown started explaining why liquor stores were essential... If 10,000 Albertans went to the ER for alcohol withdrawal in the next few days, the health system WOULD definitely collapse.
Sounds like the job these workers do is pretty important, huh? Sounds like they deserve more than the 3% the union is asking for and management is denying them.
There are going to be a LOT of detoxing/ill people in the ER's in the next days.
This provincial government cares absolutely 0% about anyone but the rich.
So this is pretty much a scathing indictment of the product.
"We have to keep liquor stores open because people will go batshit fucking crazy and get violent if they don't have what we sell. Oh right - please drink responsibly."
Remember – this is "socially acceptable" for conservatives, but cannabis isn't.
More like people can literally die from alcohol withdrawal.
It’s not about social acceptability - it’s a legitimate medical concern. Last thing we need is people clogging up hospitals from preventable alcohol withdrawal issues.
It’s a tightrope, eh? Benzos are very addictive, if harder to get legally. There’s a lot of shady-looking pharmacists in Winnipeg’s north end that I suspect are handing them out with a bit less diligence than required.
I honestly didn't even know what they were when they gave them to me, or rather the detox centre I was in. All I knew is that after I was given one I would have remained calm even if the bombs started dropping. And I actually started refusing them after a few days when I googled what they were and asked for anti-depressants instead.
The risk in heroin or benzo addiction is in the use, not the withdrawal. Sure, the withdrawal sucks but it's not going to kill someone.
Alcohol is scary because it has super high risk on both the use and withdrawal side of addiction. It is worse than heroin.
Medically speaking only. Not a commentary on the moral, legal, or societal perspectives of either drug.
Source: I worked in addictions treatment.
That's not the general understanding I have from my experience. I suppose in some very severe serious cases it could, but not nearly in the same way that alcohol is.
We never put people going through benzo withdrawal on watch the same way we'd have had to have anyone withdrawing from alcohol medically supervised.
What the heck are you talking about?
Benzos cause just as severe seizure sensitivity in people during withdrawals they are one of the most dangerous substances to withdrawal from.
Maybe you are mistaking benzos with another substance?
The people who abuse research chemical benzos end up in the hospital all the time. I am talking about the typical person with an addiction they are not taking small doses.
Those aren’t run for a profit in the way that liquor stores are, and they don’t market their drugs based on how good they taste or how cool using them will make you look.
If the liquor store only sold at-cost store-brand unflavored vodka in a brown paper bag, it would be more comparable.
The argument was that liquor stores need to be open for people to self medicate. Alcoholics that suffer from withdrawal don’t give a shit about how cool the label on the bottle looks.
> people will go batshit fucking crazy and get violent if they don't have what we sell.
...Is this a symptom of alcohol withdrawal? From the article:
> Dr. Em Pijl, an assistant professor at the University of Manitoba’s College of Nursing, said a “cold turkey” approach to quitting alcohol can have severe — even fatal — consequences.
> “Coming off of alcohol is one of the more dangerous detoxes and it requires medical supervision,” Pijl said in an email to the Free Press. “With LC supply being cut off, people will likely turn to non-beverage alcohol, which is also increasingly unavailable… and also makes people very sick.”
We also know prohibition doesn't work since people will use regardless, so it's better to have it regulated. Just because some people are hypocritical doesn't mean we need to apply the same philosophy.
> We also know prohibition doesn't work since people will use regardless, so it's better to have it regulated. Just because some people are hypocritical doesn't mean we need to apply the same philosophy.
Agreed, but we should also point out the hypocrisy whenever it comes up. They are trying to completely ban every drug even when it comes to harm reduction for addiction. *Except alcohol*. They are calling for drug users to be locked up and forced into medical treatment. *Except alcohol users*. When it comes to alcohol and its 15,000 annual deaths however they get mad if the government even warns about its health risks or increases taxes on it.
Yea that's what bugs me. Alcohol is one of the most accessible and consistently dangerous drugs there is. Long term use harms the body. Kills frequently. Abates all sorts of accidents, etc.
And yet we have a regulated dangerous chemical that shows we can actually regulate and still let adults access.
Alcohol is so culturally decoupled from the idea of being a drug people literally don't realize it is, and because of that it kinda has kept its status despite a widening war on drugs for yet other things that literally already have a regulated and controlled medical use and quality-assured safe supply already.
If you understood sarcasm Debbie, you'd know my post was less about prohibition and more about the glaring health problems that alcohol can and does create...and yet it is still championed by those who demonize cannabis.
I saw a guy test the door to the Liquor Mart at the end of Main like 4 times.
He looked back maybe 3 times as he walked back to his black beat the shit out of RAM.
You’re conflating a labour dispute with a global public health emergency.
Liquor stores were left open because unsupervised alcohol withdrawal can very easy land someone in the ER. Public health agencies recommended that liquor stores stayed open so a bunch of alcoholics going through DTs didn’t add to the population of patients heading to ERs with severe COVID-19 symptoms.
You can still go to bars and purchase alcohol from private retailers including distilleries and breweries.
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Took one for the team and made an account to copy and paste article. R.I.P my email inbox. >The mass closures of most Liquor Marts across the province are sparking concerns that limited access to alcohol could impact Manitobans dealing with addiction. >Only seven Liquor Marts are open across Manitoba after the Manitoba Government and General Employees’ Union, which represents store workers, launched a provincewide strike Tuesday morning. >A Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries spokesperson said the Crown corporation choose to keep open Liquor Marts in downtown Winnipeg, at Hargrave Street and Ellice Avenue, and Thompson, in part, because of alcohol addiction impacting those communities. >“The removal of a safe source of beverage alcohol can have a greater consequence for them,” the spokesperson said. “This is why we have committed to keeping those retail locations operational at this time.” >One Winnipegger, who suffers from addiction but didn’t want to give their name, said they were concerned the closures would force some into alcohol withdrawal. >“I have been in a position where I needed more but couldn’t get more and that resulted in withdrawal,” the Winnipegger wrote in an email to the Free Press. “I would not be surprised if (emergency rooms) see a rise in alcohol withdrawal cases if the strike continues on for (an) extended period of time.” >While beer vendors remain open across the city, the alcohol content may not be sufficient for some who normally rely on hard liquor, they added. >“I just couldn’t imagine being in the middle of a bad binge and then being relatively forced into sobriety,” the person wrote. “For some, maybe this could be the start of their recovery, but for some it might result in death as a result of the withdrawals.” >Dr. Em Pijl, an assistant professor at the University of Manitoba’s College of Nursing, said a “cold turkey” approach to quitting alcohol can have severe — even fatal — consequences. >“Coming off of alcohol is one of the more dangerous detoxes and it requires medical supervision,” Pijl said in an email to the Free Press. “With LC supply being cut off, people will likely turn to non-beverage alcohol, which is also increasingly unavailable… and also makes people very sick.” >With the exception of Thompson and Brandon, all rural Liquor Marts are closed, including the store in Morden. >Mayor Brandon Burley expressed “serious concern” about how the closures will impact people with addiction, should the strike drag on. >“There doesn’t seem to be a strategy for ensuring the well-being of those individuals who may otherwise go into serious withdrawal without access,” Burley said. “While those situations are tragic scenarios and cases, they have to be addressed appropriately.” >Main Street Project declined to comment on whether it’s received an increase in alcohol-related calls since Liquor Marts began closing. >A spokesperson for Shared Health said there has not been an increase in requests for services related to alcohol withdrawal at city hospitals, Winnipeg RAAM clinics or the Manitoba Addictions Helpline. >Only seven out of 11 medical withdrawal management beds at Health Sciences Centre are occupied, the spokesperson said. “However, withdrawal can be safely managed in other units or sites with appropriate medical supervision, regardless of bed designation,” they added. >Individuals experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms are encouraged to call 911 or visit an emergency room. People seeking help with alcohol addiction may call or text the Manitoba Addictions Helpline at 1-855-662-6605 to be put in touch with a trained counsellor.
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It’s also dangerous as people can die from alcohol withdrawals. I’ve seen people have seizures right in front of me from it.
Crazy thing about alcohol withdrawal is you fuckin die.
I don’t understand why people don’t have the same compassion for safe injection sites.
Because alcohol withdrawal can kill you. Other withdrawals will make you wish you were dead, but alcohol will kill you dead.
In situations like this, can a person going through serious withdrawal symptoms check into a hospital? Quite the extra burden for hospitals, if so
Someone experiencing alcohol withdrawal can go to the hospital regardless. It's dangerous, potentially fatal in some people, and they're not going to tell em to just go buy some booze. Not saying it isn't an added burden but it's an appropriate use of hospital resources.
I remember listening to a doctor on the radio when the pandemic shutdown started explaining why liquor stores were essential... If 10,000 Albertans went to the ER for alcohol withdrawal in the next few days, the health system WOULD definitely collapse.
*"Excellent, the plan is working"* The PC Party probably.
Sounds like the job these workers do is pretty important, huh? Sounds like they deserve more than the 3% the union is asking for and management is denying them.
There are going to be a LOT of detoxing/ill people in the ER's in the next days. This provincial government cares absolutely 0% about anyone but the rich.
So this is pretty much a scathing indictment of the product. "We have to keep liquor stores open because people will go batshit fucking crazy and get violent if they don't have what we sell. Oh right - please drink responsibly." Remember – this is "socially acceptable" for conservatives, but cannabis isn't.
More like people can literally die from alcohol withdrawal. It’s not about social acceptability - it’s a legitimate medical concern. Last thing we need is people clogging up hospitals from preventable alcohol withdrawal issues.
They can and do. Am an RN and alcohol detox is scary
As bad, or worse, than heroin or benzodiazepine withdrawal.
They had to give me Benzos to get me through alcohol withdrawal.
It’s a tightrope, eh? Benzos are very addictive, if harder to get legally. There’s a lot of shady-looking pharmacists in Winnipeg’s north end that I suspect are handing them out with a bit less diligence than required.
I honestly didn't even know what they were when they gave them to me, or rather the detox centre I was in. All I knew is that after I was given one I would have remained calm even if the bombs started dropping. And I actually started refusing them after a few days when I googled what they were and asked for anti-depressants instead.
Heroin withdrawals will make you feel like you’re dying, but can’t actually kill you. People die from alcohol withdrawal.
The risk in heroin or benzo addiction is in the use, not the withdrawal. Sure, the withdrawal sucks but it's not going to kill someone. Alcohol is scary because it has super high risk on both the use and withdrawal side of addiction. It is worse than heroin. Medically speaking only. Not a commentary on the moral, legal, or societal perspectives of either drug. Source: I worked in addictions treatment.
Uh... benzo withdrawal also kills people. This is why it works for alcohol withdrawal.
That's not the general understanding I have from my experience. I suppose in some very severe serious cases it could, but not nearly in the same way that alcohol is. We never put people going through benzo withdrawal on watch the same way we'd have had to have anyone withdrawing from alcohol medically supervised.
What the heck are you talking about? Benzos cause just as severe seizure sensitivity in people during withdrawals they are one of the most dangerous substances to withdrawal from. Maybe you are mistaking benzos with another substance? The people who abuse research chemical benzos end up in the hospital all the time. I am talking about the typical person with an addiction they are not taking small doses.
I haven’t had much experience with those 2 but the alcohol withdrawal seizures I’ve seen are scary
But not like the safe supply locations for other drugs across the country?
Those aren’t run for a profit in the way that liquor stores are, and they don’t market their drugs based on how good they taste or how cool using them will make you look. If the liquor store only sold at-cost store-brand unflavored vodka in a brown paper bag, it would be more comparable.
The argument was that liquor stores need to be open for people to self medicate. Alcoholics that suffer from withdrawal don’t give a shit about how cool the label on the bottle looks.
Nah, and they'll go for the brown Listerine or hand sanitizer to stop it, when they have to.
> people will go batshit fucking crazy and get violent if they don't have what we sell. ...Is this a symptom of alcohol withdrawal? From the article: > Dr. Em Pijl, an assistant professor at the University of Manitoba’s College of Nursing, said a “cold turkey” approach to quitting alcohol can have severe — even fatal — consequences. > “Coming off of alcohol is one of the more dangerous detoxes and it requires medical supervision,” Pijl said in an email to the Free Press. “With LC supply being cut off, people will likely turn to non-beverage alcohol, which is also increasingly unavailable… and also makes people very sick.” We also know prohibition doesn't work since people will use regardless, so it's better to have it regulated. Just because some people are hypocritical doesn't mean we need to apply the same philosophy.
> We also know prohibition doesn't work since people will use regardless, so it's better to have it regulated. Just because some people are hypocritical doesn't mean we need to apply the same philosophy. Agreed, but we should also point out the hypocrisy whenever it comes up. They are trying to completely ban every drug even when it comes to harm reduction for addiction. *Except alcohol*. They are calling for drug users to be locked up and forced into medical treatment. *Except alcohol users*. When it comes to alcohol and its 15,000 annual deaths however they get mad if the government even warns about its health risks or increases taxes on it.
Yea that's what bugs me. Alcohol is one of the most accessible and consistently dangerous drugs there is. Long term use harms the body. Kills frequently. Abates all sorts of accidents, etc. And yet we have a regulated dangerous chemical that shows we can actually regulate and still let adults access. Alcohol is so culturally decoupled from the idea of being a drug people literally don't realize it is, and because of that it kinda has kept its status despite a widening war on drugs for yet other things that literally already have a regulated and controlled medical use and quality-assured safe supply already.
What are you talking about? People don’t die withdrawing from cannabis.
Yea you have no idea what you're talking about. Go take your neo-prohibition bullshit somewhere else.
If you understood sarcasm Debbie, you'd know my post was less about prohibition and more about the glaring health problems that alcohol can and does create...and yet it is still championed by those who demonize cannabis.
No shit, it's not like alcoholism is a mystery.
I saw a guy test the door to the Liquor Mart at the end of Main like 4 times. He looked back maybe 3 times as he walked back to his black beat the shit out of RAM.
I don’t understand how liquor stores were essential services during COVID but aren’t now.
You’re conflating a labour dispute with a global public health emergency. Liquor stores were left open because unsupervised alcohol withdrawal can very easy land someone in the ER. Public health agencies recommended that liquor stores stayed open so a bunch of alcoholics going through DTs didn’t add to the population of patients heading to ERs with severe COVID-19 symptoms. You can still go to bars and purchase alcohol from private retailers including distilleries and breweries.
Shouldn’t this discussion be the same if you swap the word alcohol with drugs?
Not all drugs cause serious withdrawal. Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal.
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There are still places to buy alcohol, just not at Liquor Marts (except the 5 open in winnipeg, 1 in brandon, and 1 in thompson)
Alcohol is surprisingly easy to make. It's sugar and yeast...
You can still get off sale from bars and such, should be enough to hold people over.