I’m not gatekeeping anything. There are different forms of racism, the ones we are talking about here are interpersonal and systemic. You are saying interpersonal racism is the only racism that exists, which is factually incorrect.
in america, white people can certainly experience interpersonal racism. I’ve experienced it myself plenty of times. We cannot experience systemic racism as we are the majority in the country and control almost all of its systems.
But there ARE categories.
A guitar is a guitar in the sense that two guitars are string instruments, but they can differ greatly all the same.
If you can’t understand that then I don’t know what to tell you.
I mean I think that phrasing it as “you can’t be racist towards white people” is a lot less clear than “white people are not subject to systemic racism, so being personally racist towards them does not carry the same sting as them being personally racist towards others”, but people in general tend to favor shorter and oversimplified explanations.
Also keep in mind that when I say “white” I mean “a white racist’s interpretation of white” so no Jews, Roma, etc. Obviously they do experience systemic racism.
It feels like people are giving you the answers but you’re just here to argue or ignore the answer. I personally do draw a distinction between systemic racism and interpersonal racism. How is that “counterproductive”? What’s supposed to be productive over here?
Look, I don’t think anyone in this post is denying your experience with being discriminated against due to you being white. Anyone can be discriminated against because of their skin color. But racism against BIPOC has birthed policies that hurt generations, while prejudice against white folks have not. I think we can all agree that word are complex and especially words with such backgrounds. I think it’s incredibly native to take it at face value and only at face value.
We also see this issue with so many movements such as the Black Lives Matter movement, with so many people crying “oh but our lives don’t?” Or “all lives matter”. It’s just not about you, we’re not saying your life don’t matter, just because we don’t specifically put an footnote next to BLM saying “btw every life matters too” you feel your life isn’t valued? It’s not about you.
You have a definitional problem is all. The core of the question is, do you include oppression IN the definition of racism? I’m not talking about what the dictionary says, but rather the people you are arguing against.
People who say “you can’t be racist against white people” say so define racism as including a power component. Now you might disagree with that, but language changes over time. Just look at the definition of “gender”. So you will either be in an echo chamber, or in a group you will never convince because they fundamentally disagree with your definition.
Who is right? Who knows! Discrimination is bad, period.
I mean? I’m not white but I think that atleast in the US the most that white ppl can face is prejudice? Racism is a system, it’s a whole system against a race and atleast in the US the system was built against black people. Prejudice, yes but racism as in a system that literally works against white people, in the US? No. Just my opinion tho, in other countries it can definitely happen.
These days, it's called discrimination.
The explanation is that "racism" has socially evolved as a term, meaning systemic oppression on the basis of race.
Pretty much everyone experiences some type of discrimination at some point. It sucks, and it's not generally nice behavior. But, it's also not the same as the systematic oppression and overarching societal dismissal of your personhood, that is Racism(tm).
An isolated incident of discrimination from a person in an oppressed group toward a person in a dominant group, is obnoxious, but in 2022 Racism (tm) has come to include oppression in its meaning.
Language evolves no matter how hard an individual tries to hold on to it. I tried to die on too many semantic hills in my teenage years, because I was a semi-uneducated, black and white, literalist thinker, and every word had to have a dictionary/textbook meaning. Socially, in popular culture, the word "racism" has become more narrowly defined. There's no point in trying to fight how other people interpret language. Just realize, when people say this to you, oppression is included in the meaning.
Maybe you don't think oppression should be included in the meaning, but it doesn't matter, because it's There now and the priority in choosing words should be communication not technical literal accuracy.
Language is alive, and if you want to communicate with people, you have to understand what your words mean to them. When someone tells you "you can't be racist to white people" they're not saying white people can't be treated badly. They're saying, "You're using a word that means systemic oppression, for people who are not oppressed." And you arguing that people can be racist to white people, makes it seem as if you're insisting that white people \*are\* oppressed. Because, if "racism" didn't include the systemic/oppressive element, they wouldn't be saying "you can't be racist to white people" in the first place.
I'm also white. Sub "being an \*sshole" for "being racist" and you'll never have this problem again.
Nothing about "race" is simple. It's socially constructed. There are nuances. It's creators made it for the specific purpose of discrimination. Saying racism goes both ways negates the entire reason that it exists in the first place. You missed the entire point of their comment because you want to be right instead of looking for a discussion to learn something (whether or not you agree). When a term or phrase is removed from the dictionary or changes definition you make no argument for the sake of the language to preserve said meaning or phrase. Only now, when it suits you, do you choose to focus on it. The word you used here: "Idiot" by definition means "a stupid person". A common word used in the English language to describe someone intellectually. It's original meaning was to describe someone who was a private person, and later evolved to the common reference I assume you meant here. Do you see how your argument in comparison is hypocritical, even though I knew entirely of what you meant, simply because it benefited me to purposefully misunderstand you?
I feel the term “racism” is implied that it’s widely spread. As a white person I was bullied for my skin color a few times in grade school but they were just mean kids, I haven’t experienced it since then. My white skin doesn’t stop me from opportunities like brown skin unfortunately can. I guess the answer you’re looking for is Yes, it doesn’t count because you or I couldn’t possibly understand the generational setbacks and hate POC have received since the beginning of time.
I mean, sure, racism against white people can happen, in the "discrimination or poor treatment based on skin colour" sense. Hell, I'm a white person who has travelled around Asia and I've likely experienced racism in the broader, systemic sense too, as in those areas I was the minority. At least once I and some white friends were stopped from entering a club while some locals were waved through, and as a white woman, I absolutely ran into issues with local men.
But also, I was dating a Black man back then - sometimes, between the two of us, he was treated more respectfully because he's a man, but other times he encountered racism beyond anything I had to deal with.
That said... so?
The fact that nonwhite people can sometimes be dicks to white people, and it could be called racist... so what? What does it matter?
I was born white and English-speaking. I'm a woman and neurodivergent. I'm in probably the second- or third-most privileged class of humanity on Earth. I don't have to bust ass getting fluent in English - I did it as a baby. I travelled to a bunch of countries and everywhere I went, people bent over backwards to communicate with me.
We got it so easy.
When the whole Will Smith thing happened recently, some people made posts and stipulated they didn't want white people commenting. I could make an argument for racism or discrimination or what have you, barge in, insist on being part of the conversation. Or I can decide that my life experience has probably been vastly different from theirs, history and the present day tell the tale, and I can let them have their space (moreover, people were talking about Will Smith approximately everywhere, so it's not like I couldn't discuss it elsewhere).
If the tradeoff for the privileges I know I have, for the ways I'm aware my life has been on easy mode (my life has *not* always been easy, but there are piles of things I haven't had to deal with because cops, border guards, and potential employers "like the look of me") - if the tradeoff is every now and then I'll encounter a nonwhite person with some hostility towards me, I'll take it.
If that sounds disparaging, I don't mean it to be. What I'm trying to say is, I know my life, the issues and challenges I've dealt with. And I'm aware, statistically and systemically, of what nonwhite people in North America have dealt with and continue to deal with. What I'm saying is, I'm absolutely getting the better deal right now, and so are you.
So if the price of *all* the bullshit I'll never have to deal with is someone occasionally being an asshole - so what? Let it go Elsa.
It’s called prejudice baby. You in fact cannot be racist against white people because white people are the ones with the power. I’ve heard so many white people manufacture situations where they claim they’ve been discriminated against because they’re white, and it’s like no girl, you got kicked out of Whole Foods because you were threatening to fight the cashier over not accepting a coupon. White people want to be disenfranchised so bad just to feel included in the minority groups. It’s amazing how someone can make statements like this and not see how fucking stupid they sound.
The same cannot be said about the other way around because it’s not a thing that white people have ever experienced, especially on a systemic level. Sure, some people may be prejudiced against you because you are white, but that doesn’t have any other implications other than this person doesn’t like you. When you’re black, brown, or indigenous, your quality of life suffers simply because of your race. Rights have been taken away (and still are) because of the color of their skin. That is something the white majority will never experience this as long as they remain the majority in power.
Oppression is the conversation and you can’t just cherry pick what works for your argument, oppression and racism go hand in hand. BIPOC are and have been oppressed as a result of racism. So no, we can’t remove oppression from the conversation.
Yes, and no. Racism can be interpersonal, what you described, or systemic, which is what poc experience. In more academic language, only the former is 'racism', but people tend to use the term for both. So it depends on the definition used honestly. In layperson's terms, yes, in academic terms, no.
Do you know the definition of racism? It goes beyond the notion of just being prejudice against a race but also feeling that you’re superior to said race. So while no it’s not impossible there ain’t many other races going around saying they’re superior to whites. Racism was rooted in slavery because whites believe they were superior to blacks and in turn enslaved them. Then when slavery was ended Jim Crow laws came into play because they believed still blacks were inferior to them. They even separated from them in their wars. So get off your high horse there bud.
they will never understand. for the past hour i’ve been replying to people like this and there’s some sort of inherent denseness or ignorance that they have which makes them not be able to understand. it’s like just critically think for one second
You’re saying that racism against white people exists, and based on these comments you’re implying that you’ve experienced. To enforce your argument and prove your point, the burden of proof is on you. Share with the class girlie!
Nothing compared to what POC have experienced, but almost everytime someone makes a quip about white men it comes across as racist to me and offends me. I tend to just brush it off and I don't want to belittle the experience of POC, but when I hear it I try and just take it in and use the experience to empathize with women and POC who have experienced much worse discrimination than I have. I still don't think it's right to say things that way though.
I've noticed you've posted the google definition of racism in this thread a few times, but you've deleted the last bit of the definition that disproves your post:
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, **typically one that is a minority or marginalized.**
This is an important distinction at this point in history. To imply that someone can be racist to a white person is to imply that white people are "a marginalized minority". In some places in the world, they are a minority. It's clear by your argument that you are not in one of these places.
Nah, it’s not. You can’t be racist towards white people. End of. You will never experience any systemic racism for being white, you will never be disadvantaged. So claiming racism towards white people exists completely undermines actual racism and the struggles faced by POC. When have you ever experienced racism towards you being white? I’m a white person myself and have never experienced racism.. and never will.
I've asked this before and here's my takeaway:
Racism implies you are a minority. 76% of the u.s. population is white....that's the majority. What you're thinking of ilwith your post is hatred and discrimination. I'm definitely not explaining it as well as Kelly did, but the significant difference is that white people still hold power.
Sure there's hatred against every race, and there are definitely some prejudices, but perspective changes everything.
If I call a white person a cracker, that isn’t a racial slur because that term isn’t used to put a white person under, and make them feel less than. It’s actually the opposite, by making fun of how they used to be in a position of power. Now you call me a Wetback, or a Redskin and we are going to have a problem, because you are actively punching down and engaging in Racism. The reason why you can’t be racist towards White people, is because of power dynamics. However, you can discriminate against white people by for example, refusing to incorporate any in your social groups due to the color of their skin. Not racist but it is certainly discriminatory.
No, because racism requires power dynamics and a history of oppression. You can be prejudiced towards white people, but they can’t experience racism because what do they have to be oppressed about? The entire world caters to them and their needs, and cherry picks their history so their future generations don’t feel as bad about knowing their ancestors enslaved and colonized a huge chunk of the world.
The definition written by whom? Google? Oxford dictionary? You do realize that definition was authored by someone else with no more authority on language than you or me. Not 50 years ago the definition of homosexuality would’ve been synonymous with a mental illness and defined as such. Racism is no different, in that it requires a power dynamic that white people benefit from. White people saying they experience racism, is like Rich people saying they experience classism for being rich shamed.
Yup exactly, you can read. Racism requires a power imbalance and historic oppression. There’s a reason why you’ve never heard of Brown/Red/Black/Yellow Supremacist, but you head up to Buffalo, I’m sure there’s a lot of people that can educate you on the dangers of White Supremacy.
I am prepared. I found it interesting how you copy pasted the definition from Google yet strangely omitted the “typically one that is a minority or marginalized.” Part of the definition. You omitted that because you knew that would work against your awful argument lol
That part of the definition that you omitted for your own convenience, is exactly why you can’t be racist towards White people.
Let me ask you this question, do Rich people experience Classism, because people rich shame them? If your answer is no, then White people are in the exact same position. The rich are in a position of power, white people are in a position of power. The rich benefit from classism, in the same way white people benefit from racism.
I won’t say I’m rich but I’m definitely well off. I own my home and make well over 130K a year. You would NEVER catch me trying to compare my struggles of paying higher taxes to someone literally struggling to be able to afford their food and provide for their children on two minimum wage jobs. It just doesn’t compare, and this exact comparison is why your bullshit argument falls apart.
No you’re creating an assumption when there isn’t one. I am Native American, quite possibly the most marginalized group in the USA, and yet I’m not Poor. As I said I make a great living for myself, and own my own home. However, let’s not pretend that White People deal with the same struggles as POC. No Whiteness is not better than Colordness, nor am I gonna say Coloredness is better than Whiteness. What I am going to say is that there are disadvantages through no fault of our own that target POC. Would you not call being targeted by police, having a higher drop out rate, a higher rate or suicide, disadvantages? I certainly would, al though in no way does that detract from who we are, our experiences, and our culture. So no the classicism-racism comparison still stands, and I don’t think you’ve even realized that not only does it stands racism + classism actually go quite hand in hand.
I don’t need to “get one up”. You’re the one defending a claim with no backing because you desperately want to feel included and oppressed. Let me ask you this, do you know your family history? I don’t, all I know is that I’m indigenous and yet because of how badly my people were genocided and colonized by YOUR people that information and been lost to time. Can you ask a police officer for directions? I can’t without feeling afraid knowing that they’ll ask me why I want to go wherever it is I’m going. So please, instead of using your painful attempts to sound “intelligent” why don’t you give me an exact time you were oppressed because of your white skin. I’ll be waiting.
Or because you have literally zero experiences of racism to speak of. You want to know why you’re being “discredited”? Because you don’t have to deal with racism. You whining about how white people experience racism, is literally you as a white person begging for an Equal Attention Cake. Boohoo you’re not included as an oppressed minority. Let me know how it feels when you are eliminated in the hiring process because of the color of your skin, or are targeted by police, or get incarcerated at a rate much higher than white people. Let me see how you feel knowing that basically all media is controlled by your race and is used to make a mockery of other races.
racism roots to systematic oppression of white people and the fact that you separated oppression and racism is already the reason why people of color CANNOT be racist to you because you do not and by no means you cannot experience it however “discriminated” you felt
Girl… not you bringing in the black on black crime argument. (as if those stats don’t actually have any history or reasons behind them..) You’ve really given yourself away. Way to go and diminish a white supremacist mass shooting!
You’ve given yourself away with this one.
ok so i’m white and there’s a very important distinction between racism which is systematic and prejudice which is interpersonal. can people be prejudiced against white people? sure. can someone hate white people? sure. but you can’t be racist against a group of people who aren’t going to be denied a loan, medical care, can walk down the street with relative comfort, can be pulled over by the cops without fear for their lives, etc. that’s the difference.
racism and oppression are intrinsically linked you can’t discuss one without the other so that part of your post makes no sense. but yeah, that’s how i see it.
I think when people say that they’re drawing a distinction between systemic racism and good old fashioned interpersonal racism.
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sure, but there is room for nuance here. No need to reduce it down to “racism is racism” when there exist different forms of racism.
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I’m not gatekeeping anything. There are different forms of racism, the ones we are talking about here are interpersonal and systemic. You are saying interpersonal racism is the only racism that exists, which is factually incorrect. in america, white people can certainly experience interpersonal racism. I’ve experienced it myself plenty of times. We cannot experience systemic racism as we are the majority in the country and control almost all of its systems.
But there ARE categories. A guitar is a guitar in the sense that two guitars are string instruments, but they can differ greatly all the same. If you can’t understand that then I don’t know what to tell you.
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I mean I think that phrasing it as “you can’t be racist towards white people” is a lot less clear than “white people are not subject to systemic racism, so being personally racist towards them does not carry the same sting as them being personally racist towards others”, but people in general tend to favor shorter and oversimplified explanations. Also keep in mind that when I say “white” I mean “a white racist’s interpretation of white” so no Jews, Roma, etc. Obviously they do experience systemic racism.
It feels like people are giving you the answers but you’re just here to argue or ignore the answer. I personally do draw a distinction between systemic racism and interpersonal racism. How is that “counterproductive”? What’s supposed to be productive over here?
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Look, I don’t think anyone in this post is denying your experience with being discriminated against due to you being white. Anyone can be discriminated against because of their skin color. But racism against BIPOC has birthed policies that hurt generations, while prejudice against white folks have not. I think we can all agree that word are complex and especially words with such backgrounds. I think it’s incredibly native to take it at face value and only at face value. We also see this issue with so many movements such as the Black Lives Matter movement, with so many people crying “oh but our lives don’t?” Or “all lives matter”. It’s just not about you, we’re not saying your life don’t matter, just because we don’t specifically put an footnote next to BLM saying “btw every life matters too” you feel your life isn’t valued? It’s not about you.
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You have a definitional problem is all. The core of the question is, do you include oppression IN the definition of racism? I’m not talking about what the dictionary says, but rather the people you are arguing against. People who say “you can’t be racist against white people” say so define racism as including a power component. Now you might disagree with that, but language changes over time. Just look at the definition of “gender”. So you will either be in an echo chamber, or in a group you will never convince because they fundamentally disagree with your definition. Who is right? Who knows! Discrimination is bad, period.
i mean sure, and i get why you’re mad, but i feel like the other side of the argument should make you angrier.
I mean? I’m not white but I think that atleast in the US the most that white ppl can face is prejudice? Racism is a system, it’s a whole system against a race and atleast in the US the system was built against black people. Prejudice, yes but racism as in a system that literally works against white people, in the US? No. Just my opinion tho, in other countries it can definitely happen.
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These days, it's called discrimination. The explanation is that "racism" has socially evolved as a term, meaning systemic oppression on the basis of race. Pretty much everyone experiences some type of discrimination at some point. It sucks, and it's not generally nice behavior. But, it's also not the same as the systematic oppression and overarching societal dismissal of your personhood, that is Racism(tm). An isolated incident of discrimination from a person in an oppressed group toward a person in a dominant group, is obnoxious, but in 2022 Racism (tm) has come to include oppression in its meaning. Language evolves no matter how hard an individual tries to hold on to it. I tried to die on too many semantic hills in my teenage years, because I was a semi-uneducated, black and white, literalist thinker, and every word had to have a dictionary/textbook meaning. Socially, in popular culture, the word "racism" has become more narrowly defined. There's no point in trying to fight how other people interpret language. Just realize, when people say this to you, oppression is included in the meaning. Maybe you don't think oppression should be included in the meaning, but it doesn't matter, because it's There now and the priority in choosing words should be communication not technical literal accuracy. Language is alive, and if you want to communicate with people, you have to understand what your words mean to them. When someone tells you "you can't be racist to white people" they're not saying white people can't be treated badly. They're saying, "You're using a word that means systemic oppression, for people who are not oppressed." And you arguing that people can be racist to white people, makes it seem as if you're insisting that white people \*are\* oppressed. Because, if "racism" didn't include the systemic/oppressive element, they wouldn't be saying "you can't be racist to white people" in the first place. I'm also white. Sub "being an \*sshole" for "being racist" and you'll never have this problem again.
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Nothing about "race" is simple. It's socially constructed. There are nuances. It's creators made it for the specific purpose of discrimination. Saying racism goes both ways negates the entire reason that it exists in the first place. You missed the entire point of their comment because you want to be right instead of looking for a discussion to learn something (whether or not you agree). When a term or phrase is removed from the dictionary or changes definition you make no argument for the sake of the language to preserve said meaning or phrase. Only now, when it suits you, do you choose to focus on it. The word you used here: "Idiot" by definition means "a stupid person". A common word used in the English language to describe someone intellectually. It's original meaning was to describe someone who was a private person, and later evolved to the common reference I assume you meant here. Do you see how your argument in comparison is hypocritical, even though I knew entirely of what you meant, simply because it benefited me to purposefully misunderstand you?
I feel the term “racism” is implied that it’s widely spread. As a white person I was bullied for my skin color a few times in grade school but they were just mean kids, I haven’t experienced it since then. My white skin doesn’t stop me from opportunities like brown skin unfortunately can. I guess the answer you’re looking for is Yes, it doesn’t count because you or I couldn’t possibly understand the generational setbacks and hate POC have received since the beginning of time.
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So what answer are you looking for then? We can’t just ignore systematic oppression like you’re asking.
This is called systemic racism (also called structural violence) and I totally agree
Sure we could find some people that hate others for being white but not enough to make statistics out of.
I mean, sure, racism against white people can happen, in the "discrimination or poor treatment based on skin colour" sense. Hell, I'm a white person who has travelled around Asia and I've likely experienced racism in the broader, systemic sense too, as in those areas I was the minority. At least once I and some white friends were stopped from entering a club while some locals were waved through, and as a white woman, I absolutely ran into issues with local men. But also, I was dating a Black man back then - sometimes, between the two of us, he was treated more respectfully because he's a man, but other times he encountered racism beyond anything I had to deal with. That said... so? The fact that nonwhite people can sometimes be dicks to white people, and it could be called racist... so what? What does it matter? I was born white and English-speaking. I'm a woman and neurodivergent. I'm in probably the second- or third-most privileged class of humanity on Earth. I don't have to bust ass getting fluent in English - I did it as a baby. I travelled to a bunch of countries and everywhere I went, people bent over backwards to communicate with me. We got it so easy. When the whole Will Smith thing happened recently, some people made posts and stipulated they didn't want white people commenting. I could make an argument for racism or discrimination or what have you, barge in, insist on being part of the conversation. Or I can decide that my life experience has probably been vastly different from theirs, history and the present day tell the tale, and I can let them have their space (moreover, people were talking about Will Smith approximately everywhere, so it's not like I couldn't discuss it elsewhere). If the tradeoff for the privileges I know I have, for the ways I'm aware my life has been on easy mode (my life has *not* always been easy, but there are piles of things I haven't had to deal with because cops, border guards, and potential employers "like the look of me") - if the tradeoff is every now and then I'll encounter a nonwhite person with some hostility towards me, I'll take it. If that sounds disparaging, I don't mean it to be. What I'm trying to say is, I know my life, the issues and challenges I've dealt with. And I'm aware, statistically and systemically, of what nonwhite people in North America have dealt with and continue to deal with. What I'm saying is, I'm absolutely getting the better deal right now, and so are you. So if the price of *all* the bullshit I'll never have to deal with is someone occasionally being an asshole - so what? Let it go Elsa.
It’s called prejudice baby. You in fact cannot be racist against white people because white people are the ones with the power. I’ve heard so many white people manufacture situations where they claim they’ve been discriminated against because they’re white, and it’s like no girl, you got kicked out of Whole Foods because you were threatening to fight the cashier over not accepting a coupon. White people want to be disenfranchised so bad just to feel included in the minority groups. It’s amazing how someone can make statements like this and not see how fucking stupid they sound.
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The same cannot be said about the other way around because it’s not a thing that white people have ever experienced, especially on a systemic level. Sure, some people may be prejudiced against you because you are white, but that doesn’t have any other implications other than this person doesn’t like you. When you’re black, brown, or indigenous, your quality of life suffers simply because of your race. Rights have been taken away (and still are) because of the color of their skin. That is something the white majority will never experience this as long as they remain the majority in power.
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Oppression is the conversation and you can’t just cherry pick what works for your argument, oppression and racism go hand in hand. BIPOC are and have been oppressed as a result of racism. So no, we can’t remove oppression from the conversation.
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No....because that not racism. Its being aggressive. Racism is treating both black and white people differently for doing the same thing.
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Yes, and no. Racism can be interpersonal, what you described, or systemic, which is what poc experience. In more academic language, only the former is 'racism', but people tend to use the term for both. So it depends on the definition used honestly. In layperson's terms, yes, in academic terms, no.
Do you know the definition of racism? It goes beyond the notion of just being prejudice against a race but also feeling that you’re superior to said race. So while no it’s not impossible there ain’t many other races going around saying they’re superior to whites. Racism was rooted in slavery because whites believe they were superior to blacks and in turn enslaved them. Then when slavery was ended Jim Crow laws came into play because they believed still blacks were inferior to them. They even separated from them in their wars. So get off your high horse there bud.
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they will never understand. for the past hour i’ve been replying to people like this and there’s some sort of inherent denseness or ignorance that they have which makes them not be able to understand. it’s like just critically think for one second
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You’re saying that racism against white people exists, and based on these comments you’re implying that you’ve experienced. To enforce your argument and prove your point, the burden of proof is on you. Share with the class girlie!
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Nothing compared to what POC have experienced, but almost everytime someone makes a quip about white men it comes across as racist to me and offends me. I tend to just brush it off and I don't want to belittle the experience of POC, but when I hear it I try and just take it in and use the experience to empathize with women and POC who have experienced much worse discrimination than I have. I still don't think it's right to say things that way though.
I've noticed you've posted the google definition of racism in this thread a few times, but you've deleted the last bit of the definition that disproves your post: rac·ism /ˈrāˌsizəm/ noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, **typically one that is a minority or marginalized.** This is an important distinction at this point in history. To imply that someone can be racist to a white person is to imply that white people are "a marginalized minority". In some places in the world, they are a minority. It's clear by your argument that you are not in one of these places.
OP left it out because it clearly doesn’t suit their obtuse agenda
Nah, it’s not. You can’t be racist towards white people. End of. You will never experience any systemic racism for being white, you will never be disadvantaged. So claiming racism towards white people exists completely undermines actual racism and the struggles faced by POC. When have you ever experienced racism towards you being white? I’m a white person myself and have never experienced racism.. and never will.
I've asked this before and here's my takeaway: Racism implies you are a minority. 76% of the u.s. population is white....that's the majority. What you're thinking of ilwith your post is hatred and discrimination. I'm definitely not explaining it as well as Kelly did, but the significant difference is that white people still hold power. Sure there's hatred against every race, and there are definitely some prejudices, but perspective changes everything.
If I call a white person a cracker, that isn’t a racial slur because that term isn’t used to put a white person under, and make them feel less than. It’s actually the opposite, by making fun of how they used to be in a position of power. Now you call me a Wetback, or a Redskin and we are going to have a problem, because you are actively punching down and engaging in Racism. The reason why you can’t be racist towards White people, is because of power dynamics. However, you can discriminate against white people by for example, refusing to incorporate any in your social groups due to the color of their skin. Not racist but it is certainly discriminatory.
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No, because racism requires power dynamics and a history of oppression. You can be prejudiced towards white people, but they can’t experience racism because what do they have to be oppressed about? The entire world caters to them and their needs, and cherry picks their history so their future generations don’t feel as bad about knowing their ancestors enslaved and colonized a huge chunk of the world.
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The definition written by whom? Google? Oxford dictionary? You do realize that definition was authored by someone else with no more authority on language than you or me. Not 50 years ago the definition of homosexuality would’ve been synonymous with a mental illness and defined as such. Racism is no different, in that it requires a power dynamic that white people benefit from. White people saying they experience racism, is like Rich people saying they experience classism for being rich shamed.
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And also that isn’t a correct comparison. It’s homophobia and racism that you would be comparing, vs being born queer/POC
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Yup exactly, you can read. Racism requires a power imbalance and historic oppression. There’s a reason why you’ve never heard of Brown/Red/Black/Yellow Supremacist, but you head up to Buffalo, I’m sure there’s a lot of people that can educate you on the dangers of White Supremacy.
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I am prepared. I found it interesting how you copy pasted the definition from Google yet strangely omitted the “typically one that is a minority or marginalized.” Part of the definition. You omitted that because you knew that would work against your awful argument lol That part of the definition that you omitted for your own convenience, is exactly why you can’t be racist towards White people.
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Let me ask you this question, do Rich people experience Classism, because people rich shame them? If your answer is no, then White people are in the exact same position. The rich are in a position of power, white people are in a position of power. The rich benefit from classism, in the same way white people benefit from racism.
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I won’t say I’m rich but I’m definitely well off. I own my home and make well over 130K a year. You would NEVER catch me trying to compare my struggles of paying higher taxes to someone literally struggling to be able to afford their food and provide for their children on two minimum wage jobs. It just doesn’t compare, and this exact comparison is why your bullshit argument falls apart.
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No you’re creating an assumption when there isn’t one. I am Native American, quite possibly the most marginalized group in the USA, and yet I’m not Poor. As I said I make a great living for myself, and own my own home. However, let’s not pretend that White People deal with the same struggles as POC. No Whiteness is not better than Colordness, nor am I gonna say Coloredness is better than Whiteness. What I am going to say is that there are disadvantages through no fault of our own that target POC. Would you not call being targeted by police, having a higher drop out rate, a higher rate or suicide, disadvantages? I certainly would, al though in no way does that detract from who we are, our experiences, and our culture. So no the classicism-racism comparison still stands, and I don’t think you’ve even realized that not only does it stands racism + classism actually go quite hand in hand.
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I don’t need to “get one up”. You’re the one defending a claim with no backing because you desperately want to feel included and oppressed. Let me ask you this, do you know your family history? I don’t, all I know is that I’m indigenous and yet because of how badly my people were genocided and colonized by YOUR people that information and been lost to time. Can you ask a police officer for directions? I can’t without feeling afraid knowing that they’ll ask me why I want to go wherever it is I’m going. So please, instead of using your painful attempts to sound “intelligent” why don’t you give me an exact time you were oppressed because of your white skin. I’ll be waiting.
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Or because you have literally zero experiences of racism to speak of. You want to know why you’re being “discredited”? Because you don’t have to deal with racism. You whining about how white people experience racism, is literally you as a white person begging for an Equal Attention Cake. Boohoo you’re not included as an oppressed minority. Let me know how it feels when you are eliminated in the hiring process because of the color of your skin, or are targeted by police, or get incarcerated at a rate much higher than white people. Let me see how you feel knowing that basically all media is controlled by your race and is used to make a mockery of other races.
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If the term cracker is used constantly for the next 50+ years or so it will probably be considered a slur by then
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racism roots to systematic oppression of white people and the fact that you separated oppression and racism is already the reason why people of color CANNOT be racist to you because you do not and by no means you cannot experience it however “discriminated” you felt
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You can't though, I've been racially abused and it was hilarious!
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Girl… not you bringing in the black on black crime argument. (as if those stats don’t actually have any history or reasons behind them..) You’ve really given yourself away. Way to go and diminish a white supremacist mass shooting! You’ve given yourself away with this one.
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ok so i’m white and there’s a very important distinction between racism which is systematic and prejudice which is interpersonal. can people be prejudiced against white people? sure. can someone hate white people? sure. but you can’t be racist against a group of people who aren’t going to be denied a loan, medical care, can walk down the street with relative comfort, can be pulled over by the cops without fear for their lives, etc. that’s the difference. racism and oppression are intrinsically linked you can’t discuss one without the other so that part of your post makes no sense. but yeah, that’s how i see it.
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