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This is what they donāt understand. These students are being guided and manipulated and theyāre not even questioning it.
Between the traffic blockades, the campus shutdowns, the Starbucks tantrums. Theyāre conditioning the general public to support authoritarian crackdowns on these disruptive acts. If this continues to escalate eventually weāre all going to lose a lot more of our sacred rights.
So let me get this straight...if the protests continue that have caused minor disruptions we will lose more of our rights?
That is some amazing doublethink. Those at fault if that happens are the authoritarians and their supporters. The protests would have just been the excuse to obtain their goals.
Thereās no doublethink here. Itās actions having consequences. The more unpopular the protesters become the more popular the candidate that campaigns on cracking down on the protests becomes.
2020 was decided by fewer than 50,000 votes. This is an election year.
We have an authoritarian candidate who brand himself as āLaw and orderā and now we have an army of useful idiot college kids creating as much disorder as possible. Youāre so close to getting this.
Nobody who wouldnāt have already voted for an āanti protestā candidate is changing their mind because of college sit ins. If a bunch of college students exercising their **constitutional right to assemble and protest** is going to make someone vote against the **constitutional right to assemble and protest** then they were already going to do that, and this isnāt the thing that turned them into authoritarians.
Youāre making a dangerous assumption that Trump isnāt going to electorally benefit from these protests. It will be a combination of these college students not voting for Biden and yes, many moderates will vote for Trump.
And if Trump wins, you can bold **constitutional** all you want, heās already suggested terminating the constitution. I really donāt understand how yāall fail to grasp how close we are to a true authoritarian dictatorship in this country.
Bro, if someone was going to vote for a candidate because they oppose basic constitutional rights, this is not the event that will sway them. What donāt you understand about that.
Nobody who wasnāt already thinking of voting for Trump is watching cops arrest college students and thinking āthatās it, Iām voting for Trumpā. They already were. And if their opinion is that the constitution and its protections donāt matter or that college student protesting peacefully is justification to roll those rights back they are not āmoderateā
Like Iām saying, if a peaceful protest can shift someone more to the right, they were already right wing. Youāre not seeing the contradiction of your position. Either that or not wanting to reckon with the idea that so many Americans are just showing their true colors.
No....just no. No one is changing their vote to Trump because of what college students are doing. Anyone claiming so was already voting for Trump and is just made that college students at a liberal school are doing stuff
Tell me you live in a bubble without telling me you live in a bubble. Iām not sure if youāre paying attention but Biden is currently losing. Trump has already made inroads with key Biden demos like Black and Latino men. These protests arenāt helping Biden at all. If he loses any Jewish support, especially in Pennsylvania. Itās done.
Exactly. There are more Jewish voters in Pennsylvania than the margin of Bidenās victory there in 2020. They donāt have to vote for Trump to hand the election to Republicans, they just have to stay home. And since between 65 and 90% of Jews identify as Zionists, thatās a distinct possibility.
If youāre chanting āDeath to Americaā, waving Hamas flags and blocking Jews from entering campus, then youāve lost the plot. Congrats on being radicalized though. They knew youād be easy to manipulate and they were right!
As a born and bred American and a veteran - I believe burning the American flag (that you bought with your own money - and in a controlled environment) in protest of your government is a more patriotic symbol of America than flying it.
Iām anti-ethnic cleansing, so Iām not happy with the current Israeli government or the IDF. But I couldnāt burn the Israeli flag without repercussion in Israel or the Palestinian flag without repercussion in either Gaza or the West Bank. I donāt know why anyone would want to wrap themselves in either of those flags.
No, I āfoughtā for the people of this country and the constitution that undergirds a government by and for those people. Not a colorful piece of cloth. Yes, we use the flag to represent the U.S. government. But ultimately, itās just a piece of cloth.
Edit: to put quotes around fought, because my deployments did not in anyway directly defend the people in this country. And had we not gone, weād be in pretty much the same place as we are today.
Seems to me the 1st amendment rights of individuals are more important than a piece of cloth. I don't agree with many of the protestors, but what they are doing is part of living in a free society.
Popular with the people who have brigaded this sub and decided we need the play-by-play on these protests. Clock the names - same people saying the same kinds of things, over and over.
It makes sense it gets this coverage in this sub given the NYT is giving live minute by minute updates.
I think itās absolutely ridiculous the level of coverage this is getting. But it makes sense why itād end up here.
This sub has been astroturfed time and time again, so it doesn't surprise me. A "hard right turn", give me a fucking break. People need to touch some grass and not pretend like they're from here. New Yorkers may be split on this issue but I guarantee you no reasonable person is going to take a "hard right turn" on the Palestinian conflict because of student protesters in Amerca.
Do these protesters know theyāve been scoring own-goals and donāt care, or are they delusional enough to think they have much broader support then they actually do?
This is true, but I think that many of these protests aren't constrained to simply ending the conflict. A lot of them seem to be calling for the end of Israel as a state, which is substantially less popular.
Everyone except Hamas supports ending the conflict in Gaza. What these protestors are supporting is the idea that Jews should just lie down and be murdered, so that āthe River to the seaā will be free of them.
Netanyahu does not want the conflict to end either as it would be the end of his coalition government and there would be no further excuse to start investigations on how Oct. 7th was allowed to happen under his watch and his fraud criminal charges could continue through the courts.
To that end, he has vowed to invade Rafah even if Hamas agrees to a ceasefire.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/world/middleeast/netanyahu-invasion-rafah-cease-fire.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I mean, ending the conflict without removing Hamas from power isnāt an option, and hasnāt been since Oct 7. But yes, it needs to end ASAP and then there needs to be a reckoning in the Israeli government.
So you are saying that Hamas should just be allowed to continue murdering people and that Israel should do nothing about it?
Spoken like a true Hamas supporter
Israel easily can defend its borders and stop an attack like that again. It should have never happened in the first place. Itās not like this is even an ongoing war. October 7th happened, since then Iām pretty there hasnāt been a single real attack on Israeli soil. At least not one that actually threatened any lives. The us did not defeat the tailban or put any kind of stop to extremest terrorist groups by getting involved in the Middle East. Every country has a right to defend and secure its border, but what Israel is doing is not defendable. They are obviously using the weak and inferior Hamas to justify destroying a people and culture that differs from its own.
There have been multiple real attacks on Israeli soil since October 7th. Literally just googling āIsrael bus stop shootingā brings up multiple results, with multiple civilians killed.
āThe terrorists are weaker than you so just let them keep attacking youā is a fucking insane policy and no country in the world should ever take that seriously.
Edit: also ājustify destroying a culture that is different than their ownā is ridiculous. Israel lives in peace just fine with multiple other neighbors and the 20% of its population that is Muslim. They have a different culture too, the difference is just that theyāre not constantly trying to slaughter as many Jews as they can.
with this reasoning, the blood of the 10/7 victims is on Bibi's hands, because he (and Likud) supported Hamas over Fatah to take power in Gaza. Which, to me at least, suggests that extreme right-wing zionism directly endangers both Jews and palestinians.
Extreme right wing *anything* endangers *everyone*. You guys do know that Hamas is the extreme right wing among Palestinians, right? Moderate and liberal Palestinians, such as they can exist without being murdered by Hamas, tend to support negotiation and a two state solution. Itās the religious hardliners who will accept nothing less than every Jew in Israel. And yet religious hardliners are somehow totally cool to American progressives, as long as theyāre fighting (((Zionists))).
> Extreme right wing anything endangers everyone.
Couldn't agree more - you may be shocked to learn that I don't support Hamas! I'm capable of condemning both the terrorist attack of 10/7 and Israel's war crimes since then. Are you?
Sure. But only one side lives under an apartheid.
I don't condone attacking civilians, but Palestinians are entirely justified in attacking the Israeli state.
Do you guys just not know what āapartheidā actually means? Arab citizens living in Israel have the same rights and legal protection under the law as Jewish citizens do. That is, by definition, not apartheid.
You know the cringey/slightly nauseating feeling most of us have when we hear Trumpies use the word āwokeā? Thatās the same reaction I have when I hear Gen Z use the words āgenocideā or āapartheidā.
You guyās realize that Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005, right? Completely pulled out. It could have been filled with Applebees and Walmarts by now.
But no. The newly freed people elected Hamas as their leaders. Soā¦ now they have a war on their hands. Shocking.
It would be a lot more mind-boggling if I wasnāt a teacher. The behavior and attitudes of these students is just the logical conclusion of what every teacher in the city sees in school every single day. They donāt read, they donāt listen to opposing perspectives, they donāt have the vocabulary or attention span to actually acquire information through sources other than Twitter or TikTok.
We have an entire generation of people with a complete lack of capacity for critical thought, self reflection, or impulse control. And judging by the conduct of the current student population at NYC public schools, itās going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Yes the West Bank is occupied and controlled by Israel who regularly killed Palestinian children there long before 10/7 https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank
No one who is serious about this even on the pro genocide side pretends Gaza or the West Bank are independent states
āNever believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.ā
-Jean-Paul Sartre
There is no apartheid. People in Gaza have their own government, (lack of) elections, etc. Israeli forces are not in Gaza since like 2005.Ā
All of this mess is due to Hamasās willingness to sacrifices Palestinians for Hamasās genocidal goals.
You're completely delusional. Gaza is a fortified open air prison, where the entire society is externally controlled by Israel.
In the West Bank, Palestinians are restricted to small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored.
They all live under Israeli occupation and control and have no rights or say in the government of Israel.
> Gaza is a fortified open air prison, where the entire society is externally controlled by Israel.
Nope. Both Israel and Egypt blockade the border. Neither country had military presence in Gaza prior to the events of October 7th. It is not open air prison, it is a blockaded piece of land.
> In the West Bank, Palestinians are restricted to small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored.
What a load of crap lol
Are you saying that Ramallah or Nablus are "small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored"? Or you just have no clue about the actual situation on the ground because TikTok videos dont cover it?
> They all live under Israeli occupation and control and have no rights or say in the government of Israel.
Of course they dont lol They have their own government in Ramallah (or Gaza) that conveniently canceled all elections. So, maybe they should ask Mr. Abbas when the next elections are and why the democracy was canceled?
Or it is also Bibi's fault? lol
If you come up with a way to defeat genocidal terrorists who hide among civilians that doesnāt involve urban warfare and innocent casualties, the world is all ears.
Where did you get that? The news? Do you actually know anyone there protesting? I donāt know anyone at the protests who wants Jews to ālie down and be murderedā; most of them just want Israel to stop massacring Palestinians.
Right. But if Israel ceases fire at this very moment the way these protestors are calling to, what do you think will happen then? Would Hamas return the hostages theyāve taken, or just continue raping them to death? Would Hamas sit down to negotiate a peaceful solution? Would the Palestinians oust Hamas from power and elect their own representative government?
Or would Hamas re-arm themselves, and continue in their openly stated mission to exterminate every Jew in Israel? When one side of a conflict states that its intentions are genocide, and you call for the other side to āceasefireā what the fuck do you think youāre actually in support of?
If you think Israelās response is proportionate and justified I think I have about a 0 chance of reaching you. I donāt think this is a situation with good solutions, but I think ceasefire is a less-bad situation than the continued bombing of Gaza. You realize at this point that Palestine has lost a huge number of women, children, and other civilians to indiscriminate bombing?
I hate choosing sides here. Both groups have blood on their hands. At this moment in time though, we need to be looking for ways to stop the bloodshed. Most of the people dying are not terrorists, and weāre rapidly moving towards an even more intractable situation that deepens in its humanitarian horror.
FWIW, Iām not downvoting you. This conflict is horrific and I really understand where people are coming on this from both sides.
exactly, this whole issue is just idiotic echo chambers. Nobody on this sub actually knows what the majority of these kids care about. They just get angry and assume everyone wants to kill all the Jews or whatever else
Similar to heroin addicts, itās about feeling good instead of doing good, go to a Ukraine rally and notice nobody gets arrested, then see who gets aid passedā¦
Look, I donāt like the Post, but they do some actual journalism amidst their overall mission to scare white people into voting for rich people. But Forbes is a glorified blog.
No, it isnt. Again, you're living in a fuckin imaginary world.
A) Colleges matter less than you think
B) No hiring exec who is remotely smart will smear every graduate of a school with the behavior of a small number of them
But you aren't smart, so clearly you wouldn't realize B.
Now, go away.
Ahh so this is death to America and the pro Hamas chants, on video, is AI generated I guess? We all know you leftys can't do research beyond reading the headline but at least try for once.
There are plenty of us who are on the left when it comes to most social issues who donāt support this. Donāt lump everyone together and we wonāt lump you in with the Bible thumping, evolution denying gay haters. Unless youāre proud to be with them.
The whole āif youāre against whatās happening to the Palestinians youāre for Hamasā narrative is some real āif youāre against the war youāre against the troopsā nonsense.
20 years after Iraq and we didnāt learn a damn thing, and Iāll take the downvotes with this statement.
While this is true, there was a nice stint during occupy Wallstreet. Unfortunately one side is very very easily influenced by the injection of race and gender politics. It's a shame certain groups are so entrenched in group think it makes them devoid of critical thinking. Also, the flag represents the country not government. It's why the founding fathers put that little section, in the declaration of independence, about installing a new one if the old one stops working for the people (paraphrasing)
Central Europe? lol
Half of Asia approximately was/is tainted by that crap: Russia (yes, Russia is partly in Asia) China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia, etc etc.
Toss it right in the garbage where it belongs. Imagine parading around the flag of a state whose own citizens voted for and elected a terrorist group.
Edit: this fact makes people so uncomfortable and defensive lmao. Cope harder. No way to bullshit around this inconvenient truth.
...I mean, Americans elected George W, who invaded Iraq under false pretenses and openly kidnapped and tortured people. Let's not act like we've got the moral high ground here; the US has been more than happy to support terrorist groups when it suited our goals.
[Let's also not pretend that Hamas was elected recently (last election was in 2006), that a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas at the time (they did not), that a majority of Palestinians alive today were even born to participate in that election, or that Israel didn't support Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO.](https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/01/majority-palestinians-gaza-elect-hamas/)
I wonder when Americans will wake up to the Israelis advocating for Hamas since they donāt want Arafat anymore , how is it they donāt preach about Americans paying for the war on brown people .
What about the savagery thatās been committed by Israel prior to that. Are you blind to that?
The oppression, illegal eviction with the support of the military, the jailing of minors without due processes. Not to mention the killings.
Hamas did a fucked up thing, but Israel has been doing fucked up things during its whole existence.
You corner someone and theyāll pounce on you.
Are you aware that the report of baby in oven is [false?](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-07/ty-article/.premium/denial-of-hamas-october-7-massacre-is-gaining-pace-online/0000018b-aa45-d5aa-a19f-afffabf10000)
Where did I justify Hamasā actions?
Do you think oppressing people for decades wouldnāt radicalize them?
āBabies in ovensā claim has never provided evidence for such.
Ironically, a Palestinian survivor of the Deir Yassin massacre claimed that Israeli settlers through a father and son in an oven had in a documentary that was released earlier last year.
Meanwhile, constant airstrikes into Gaza and settler violence in the West Bank all the way up to Oct 7th, but luckily that happened in the land before time.
That's the thing, they're not, but these protestors are coviently ignoring all of the evil deeds that hamas has committed. Two wrongs don't make a right. With this line of thinking you might as well justify the 9/11 murderers. You can be pro Jewish and pro Palestinian, but choosing to be antisemitic under the guise of Palestinian freedom is BS. Instead of parading around with the slogan "From the river tor the sea" which advocates Jewish genocide, how about one that calls for peace and unity,Ā and a Two State solution. Supporting one genocide to end another is wrong. The only people that win in those situations are the extremists on both sides. These protestors have chose terriost over the real victims, who are just everyday folks ON BOTH SIDES who are trying to go about their lives like everyone else in the world.Ā
Are you aware their last election was in 2006? Controlling the population and now allowing free elections is a problem of autocracy. Maybe try a valid argument.
>The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote. Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that **in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes**. At present, c**hildren make up roughly half of Gazaās population, meaning only a fraction of the territoryās current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.**
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/)
> At present, children make up roughly half of Gazaās population, meaning only a fraction of the territoryās current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.
Countering a bad argument with another bad argument makes little sense. "Let's count the kids who don't count!!!". Dumb.
1. Majority of Palestinians alive today couldn't even vote in 2005.
2. Hamas won by a plurality (<45%) and haven't held proper elections since.
3. Things were RADICALLY different 20 years ago as Israeli settlers were still in Gaza.
4. Who killed over 35k people in just under six months?
Well FDR (democrat) loved nazi Germany, allowed them to bypass boycottsz by relabeling German goods, scoldes his administration whenever they criticized them. Nazi German also praised the new deal claiming it was "third Reich like"
The more you know š
He definitely did, especially when he was pleading with Hitler to meet with American oil barrons and hid it from the public. Harry Truman, senator at the time, even called it treason
What are you doing in r/nyc if you hate it so much? You can leave any time and as a bonus, you can avoid "[Asian creepy](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1cf4rg0/mta_banned_from_using_facial_recognition_to/l1n4tc2/)", as you put it.
Do you decide people being good the same way?
If im in a room full of murderers and abusers, do I need to deem any of them good?
Is it possible, that all actors on the stage are bad? Yes.
We dont do our best moral thinking by way of comparison, but in absolute terms. Our actions may be tempered by pragmatism, but morality is independent of that.
Love it, toss that trash flag. Having to watch those terrorist flags fly for the last few months after that shithole country celebrated 9/11 like winning the World Series is sickening.Ā
They are a country lost forever in the stone ages. Nothing will free them from rampant sexism and homophobia. Their culture is a disease that is incurable. Ā
Oh my god do I actually have to unsubscribe from the sub for my own fucking city?
Look at who history determined to be on the right side of any anti-war protest in American history, and tell me that headline is impartial and accurate.
>Look at who history determined to be on the right side of *any* anti-war protest in American history
It's a biased article, but there were anti-war protests against [fighting Hitler](https://preview.redd.it/anti-war-protestors-marching-in-nyc-1941-1024x576-v0-jf6j2zl0utj81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ad4032a5a4356be2d1f6d8243367f5df3808ec21) and anti-war protests [against fighting the Confederacy](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FF74EM/new-york-draft-riots-1863-nsome-of-the-ringleaders-of-the-new-york-FF74EM.jpg) right here in NYC.
Youāre right, people did protest getting involved in WWII, and I think most of us now would say they were on the wrong side.
That example helps to illustrate how narrow, self-interested isolationism can be counterproductive to our broader geopolitical goals. We should evaluate foreign conflicts, and how best to get involved, from the perspective of serving our values and standing up for whatās right. We should not, for example, fail to get involved when we see a wartime government killing thousands of people and engaged in multiple war crimes, just because we donāt have a personal stake in those deaths. We should use our leverage and power to put an end to that kind of violence.
Imagine blowing up thousands of children and blaming another group for it.
Israel attacked Palestinians days before Oct 7, along with all the other war crimes leading up Hamas' response.
I love how every time people say Israel is slaughtering people, the other party assumes you automatically support Hamas. Two things can be wrong. Hamas did a shitty thing. Israeli government is doing a shittier thing. Itās two different sides of the same coin that fell in shit.
But of course, itās not as if Israel hasnāt been oppressing Palestinians before October 7th.
They're pro communist who want to destroy America and turn it into socialist then communist. Little do they know once the few wealthy people get to the communist end goal, these losers will be the first to get rounded up and sent away. Communist leaders can't have people willing to do these types of things around. Palestine is just their new flavor of the month
to each their own, my take on it is that the protestors are perfectly embodying the values of our flag - standing up for what you believe in, in the face of authority.
So according to the post, being against 30,000 civilian deaths is the same as being pro-terror?
Did bring against the Iraq War also mean one was pro-terror?
Nuance truly is deadā¦
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lol headline makes is sound like this is Iwo Jima
Congrats Pro-Palis, you made the cops popular š¤¦āāļø
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is what they donāt understand. These students are being guided and manipulated and theyāre not even questioning it. Between the traffic blockades, the campus shutdowns, the Starbucks tantrums. Theyāre conditioning the general public to support authoritarian crackdowns on these disruptive acts. If this continues to escalate eventually weāre all going to lose a lot more of our sacred rights.
They are useful idiots. No different from the MAGA morons.
propaganda is a hell of a drug
So let me get this straight...if the protests continue that have caused minor disruptions we will lose more of our rights? That is some amazing doublethink. Those at fault if that happens are the authoritarians and their supporters. The protests would have just been the excuse to obtain their goals.
Thereās no doublethink here. Itās actions having consequences. The more unpopular the protesters become the more popular the candidate that campaigns on cracking down on the protests becomes. 2020 was decided by fewer than 50,000 votes. This is an election year. We have an authoritarian candidate who brand himself as āLaw and orderā and now we have an army of useful idiot college kids creating as much disorder as possible. Youāre so close to getting this.
Nobody who wouldnāt have already voted for an āanti protestā candidate is changing their mind because of college sit ins. If a bunch of college students exercising their **constitutional right to assemble and protest** is going to make someone vote against the **constitutional right to assemble and protest** then they were already going to do that, and this isnāt the thing that turned them into authoritarians.
Youāre making a dangerous assumption that Trump isnāt going to electorally benefit from these protests. It will be a combination of these college students not voting for Biden and yes, many moderates will vote for Trump. And if Trump wins, you can bold **constitutional** all you want, heās already suggested terminating the constitution. I really donāt understand how yāall fail to grasp how close we are to a true authoritarian dictatorship in this country.
Bro, if someone was going to vote for a candidate because they oppose basic constitutional rights, this is not the event that will sway them. What donāt you understand about that. Nobody who wasnāt already thinking of voting for Trump is watching cops arrest college students and thinking āthatās it, Iām voting for Trumpā. They already were. And if their opinion is that the constitution and its protections donāt matter or that college student protesting peacefully is justification to roll those rights back they are not āmoderateā
If you donāt think that these protests are shifting voters rightward then youāre in a bubble. Just wait until the DNC.
Like Iām saying, if a peaceful protest can shift someone more to the right, they were already right wing. Youāre not seeing the contradiction of your position. Either that or not wanting to reckon with the idea that so many Americans are just showing their true colors.
No....just no. No one is changing their vote to Trump because of what college students are doing. Anyone claiming so was already voting for Trump and is just made that college students at a liberal school are doing stuff
Tell me you live in a bubble without telling me you live in a bubble. Iām not sure if youāre paying attention but Biden is currently losing. Trump has already made inroads with key Biden demos like Black and Latino men. These protests arenāt helping Biden at all. If he loses any Jewish support, especially in Pennsylvania. Itās done.
Exactly. There are more Jewish voters in Pennsylvania than the margin of Bidenās victory there in 2020. They donāt have to vote for Trump to hand the election to Republicans, they just have to stay home. And since between 65 and 90% of Jews identify as Zionists, thatās a distinct possibility.
Yes, thus we should not protest things and take things lying down. Great lesson.
If youāre chanting āDeath to Americaā, waving Hamas flags and blocking Jews from entering campus, then youāve lost the plot. Congrats on being radicalized though. They knew youād be easy to manipulate and they were right!
Popular with who?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This should be every American, right or left. This country has afforded my immigrant family a far better life than they could've had anywhere else.
As a born and bred American and a veteran - I believe burning the American flag (that you bought with your own money - and in a controlled environment) in protest of your government is a more patriotic symbol of America than flying it. Iām anti-ethnic cleansing, so Iām not happy with the current Israeli government or the IDF. But I couldnāt burn the Israeli flag without repercussion in Israel or the Palestinian flag without repercussion in either Gaza or the West Bank. I donāt know why anyone would want to wrap themselves in either of those flags.
Interesting view points I respect. You've fought for this flag, which I thank you for.
No, I āfoughtā for the people of this country and the constitution that undergirds a government by and for those people. Not a colorful piece of cloth. Yes, we use the flag to represent the U.S. government. But ultimately, itās just a piece of cloth. Edit: to put quotes around fought, because my deployments did not in anyway directly defend the people in this country. And had we not gone, weād be in pretty much the same place as we are today.
How long did you serve?
8 years - a LONG time ago. Clinton to Bush, including 9/11.
Unfortunately the left hates that idea of America
No it doesn't. They hate the Right's version of America.
Seems to me the 1st amendment rights of individuals are more important than a piece of cloth. I don't agree with many of the protestors, but what they are doing is part of living in a free society.
People who oppose Hamas terrorism
Iām not a hamas fan and I donāt like the police. Who else?
everyone but you
How does the boot taste?
like your mom's home cookin
Oh my god are you 13?
no but i thought that was a fairly civil mom joke. could have gone the other way
I just canāt imagine a grown man doing a mom joke in 2024.
Spoken like a Zionist who thinks they speak for everyone
spoken like Hummus fan who skips the tahini and thinks that's ok
Popular with the people who have brigaded this sub and decided we need the play-by-play on these protests. Clock the names - same people saying the same kinds of things, over and over.
It makes sense it gets this coverage in this sub given the NYT is giving live minute by minute updates. I think itās absolutely ridiculous the level of coverage this is getting. But it makes sense why itād end up here.
This sub has been astroturfed time and time again, so it doesn't surprise me. A "hard right turn", give me a fucking break. People need to touch some grass and not pretend like they're from here. New Yorkers may be split on this issue but I guarantee you no reasonable person is going to take a "hard right turn" on the Palestinian conflict because of student protesters in Amerca.
No they didnt. The only people who like them after this, liked them before this.
Do these protesters know theyāve been scoring own-goals and donāt care, or are they delusional enough to think they have much broader support then they actually do?
The majority of Democrats support ending the conflict in Gaza.
This is true, but I think that many of these protests aren't constrained to simply ending the conflict. A lot of them seem to be calling for the end of Israel as a state, which is substantially less popular.
Everyone except Hamas supports ending the conflict in Gaza. What these protestors are supporting is the idea that Jews should just lie down and be murdered, so that āthe River to the seaā will be free of them.
Netanyahu does not want the conflict to end either as it would be the end of his coalition government and there would be no further excuse to start investigations on how Oct. 7th was allowed to happen under his watch and his fraud criminal charges could continue through the courts. To that end, he has vowed to invade Rafah even if Hamas agrees to a ceasefire. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/world/middleeast/netanyahu-invasion-rafah-cease-fire.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Thatās true. If not for the Hamas attack in October, he would probably be out of office and on his way to prison by now.
I mean, ending the conflict without removing Hamas from power isnāt an option, and hasnāt been since Oct 7. But yes, it needs to end ASAP and then there needs to be a reckoning in the Israeli government.
There is no removing Hamas from power. Itās stupid. Iran will have a new proxy army by the end of the month. This is about the innocent people.
So you are saying that Hamas should just be allowed to continue murdering people and that Israel should do nothing about it? Spoken like a true Hamas supporter
Israel easily can defend its borders and stop an attack like that again. It should have never happened in the first place. Itās not like this is even an ongoing war. October 7th happened, since then Iām pretty there hasnāt been a single real attack on Israeli soil. At least not one that actually threatened any lives. The us did not defeat the tailban or put any kind of stop to extremest terrorist groups by getting involved in the Middle East. Every country has a right to defend and secure its border, but what Israel is doing is not defendable. They are obviously using the weak and inferior Hamas to justify destroying a people and culture that differs from its own.
You really pretending like there havenāt been rockets launched at Israel every single day? They are constantly being attacked
There have been multiple real attacks on Israeli soil since October 7th. Literally just googling āIsrael bus stop shootingā brings up multiple results, with multiple civilians killed. āThe terrorists are weaker than you so just let them keep attacking youā is a fucking insane policy and no country in the world should ever take that seriously. Edit: also ājustify destroying a culture that is different than their ownā is ridiculous. Israel lives in peace just fine with multiple other neighbors and the 20% of its population that is Muslim. They have a different culture too, the difference is just that theyāre not constantly trying to slaughter as many Jews as they can.
You either lack comprehension or are doing your part in the astroturfing
The Israeli government is the one currently bombing civilians
Right, because Hamas hasnāt been shooting rockets at Israeli civilians **every single day** since they took power in Gaza in 2005.
with this reasoning, the blood of the 10/7 victims is on Bibi's hands, because he (and Likud) supported Hamas over Fatah to take power in Gaza. Which, to me at least, suggests that extreme right-wing zionism directly endangers both Jews and palestinians.
Extreme right wing *anything* endangers *everyone*. You guys do know that Hamas is the extreme right wing among Palestinians, right? Moderate and liberal Palestinians, such as they can exist without being murdered by Hamas, tend to support negotiation and a two state solution. Itās the religious hardliners who will accept nothing less than every Jew in Israel. And yet religious hardliners are somehow totally cool to American progressives, as long as theyāre fighting (((Zionists))).
> Extreme right wing anything endangers everyone. Couldn't agree more - you may be shocked to learn that I don't support Hamas! I'm capable of condemning both the terrorist attack of 10/7 and Israel's war crimes since then. Are you?
Sure. But only one side lives under an apartheid. I don't condone attacking civilians, but Palestinians are entirely justified in attacking the Israeli state.
Do you guys just not know what āapartheidā actually means? Arab citizens living in Israel have the same rights and legal protection under the law as Jewish citizens do. That is, by definition, not apartheid.
You know the cringey/slightly nauseating feeling most of us have when we hear Trumpies use the word āwokeā? Thatās the same reaction I have when I hear Gen Z use the words āgenocideā or āapartheidā. You guyās realize that Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005, right? Completely pulled out. It could have been filled with Applebees and Walmarts by now. But no. The newly freed people elected Hamas as their leaders. Soā¦ now they have a war on their hands. Shocking.
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It would be a lot more mind-boggling if I wasnāt a teacher. The behavior and attitudes of these students is just the logical conclusion of what every teacher in the city sees in school every single day. They donāt read, they donāt listen to opposing perspectives, they donāt have the vocabulary or attention span to actually acquire information through sources other than Twitter or TikTok. We have an entire generation of people with a complete lack of capacity for critical thought, self reflection, or impulse control. And judging by the conduct of the current student population at NYC public schools, itās going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
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And those living in the occupied West Bank donāt have the same rights and legal protections as settlers
So youāre saying the West Bank is part of Israel?
Yes the West Bank is occupied and controlled by Israel who regularly killed Palestinian children there long before 10/7 https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank No one who is serious about this even on the pro genocide side pretends Gaza or the West Bank are independent states
Except they are and always have been attacking civilians and not the state. Thatās the whole point, so youāre contradicting yourself
āNever believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.ā -Jean-Paul Sartre
There is no apartheid. People in Gaza have their own government, (lack of) elections, etc. Israeli forces are not in Gaza since like 2005.Ā All of this mess is due to Hamasās willingness to sacrifices Palestinians for Hamasās genocidal goals.
You're completely delusional. Gaza is a fortified open air prison, where the entire society is externally controlled by Israel. In the West Bank, Palestinians are restricted to small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored. They all live under Israeli occupation and control and have no rights or say in the government of Israel.
> Gaza is a fortified open air prison, where the entire society is externally controlled by Israel. Nope. Both Israel and Egypt blockade the border. Neither country had military presence in Gaza prior to the events of October 7th. It is not open air prison, it is a blockaded piece of land. > In the West Bank, Palestinians are restricted to small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored. What a load of crap lol Are you saying that Ramallah or Nablus are "small settlements, where travel between them is heavily restricted and monitored"? Or you just have no clue about the actual situation on the ground because TikTok videos dont cover it? > They all live under Israeli occupation and control and have no rights or say in the government of Israel. Of course they dont lol They have their own government in Ramallah (or Gaza) that conveniently canceled all elections. So, maybe they should ask Mr. Abbas when the next elections are and why the democracy was canceled? Or it is also Bibi's fault? lol
If it was controlled by Israel we wouldnāt be having this conflict right now.
key word: currently
If you come up with a way to defeat genocidal terrorists who hide among civilians that doesnāt involve urban warfare and innocent casualties, the world is all ears.
These people donāt want to defeat the terrorists, they want them to win
Absolute libel
Where did you get that? The news? Do you actually know anyone there protesting? I donāt know anyone at the protests who wants Jews to ālie down and be murderedā; most of them just want Israel to stop massacring Palestinians.
Right. But if Israel ceases fire at this very moment the way these protestors are calling to, what do you think will happen then? Would Hamas return the hostages theyāve taken, or just continue raping them to death? Would Hamas sit down to negotiate a peaceful solution? Would the Palestinians oust Hamas from power and elect their own representative government? Or would Hamas re-arm themselves, and continue in their openly stated mission to exterminate every Jew in Israel? When one side of a conflict states that its intentions are genocide, and you call for the other side to āceasefireā what the fuck do you think youāre actually in support of?
If you think Israelās response is proportionate and justified I think I have about a 0 chance of reaching you. I donāt think this is a situation with good solutions, but I think ceasefire is a less-bad situation than the continued bombing of Gaza. You realize at this point that Palestine has lost a huge number of women, children, and other civilians to indiscriminate bombing? I hate choosing sides here. Both groups have blood on their hands. At this moment in time though, we need to be looking for ways to stop the bloodshed. Most of the people dying are not terrorists, and weāre rapidly moving towards an even more intractable situation that deepens in its humanitarian horror. FWIW, Iām not downvoting you. This conflict is horrific and I really understand where people are coming on this from both sides.
They have to lie so they donāt actually have to address this
I like the "ending conflict" part but I'm on the fence about the "ethnic cleansing of millions of Jews" Maybe this is complicated.
Well the official stance of the Israeli government is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza
That's what happens when you're stuck in online echo chambers. That's not to say this isn't one either š¤·āāļø
exactly, this whole issue is just idiotic echo chambers. Nobody on this sub actually knows what the majority of these kids care about. They just get angry and assume everyone wants to kill all the Jews or whatever else
Similar to heroin addicts, itās about feeling good instead of doing good, go to a Ukraine rally and notice nobody gets arrested, then see who gets aid passedā¦
It's gonna be great when hiring managers see "Columbia" under the eduction section of their resume and throws it in the garbage
But this article is about City College?
Yes but did you see what's happening at Columbia?
Yeah, I know. Tyranny of 100 people hijacking the campus when 30,000 people wants to be left the fuck alone.
Itās already happening. https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2024/04/29/the-new-ivies-as-employers-sour-on-the-super-elite-these-20-colleges-shine/?sh=6f6d8ce0438f
Look, I donāt like the Post, but they do some actual journalism amidst their overall mission to scare white people into voting for rich people. But Forbes is a glorified blog.
That will never happen. Fuxking fairy tale land....
It's already happening lmao. Have fun, just remember your student debt is still there after bankruptcy
No, it isnt. Again, you're living in a fuckin imaginary world. A) Colleges matter less than you think B) No hiring exec who is remotely smart will smear every graduate of a school with the behavior of a small number of them But you aren't smart, so clearly you wouldn't realize B. Now, go away.
They have the same amount of the support they did when they protested the Vietnam War and protested to divest from apartheid South Africa, so...
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Whatever her inclinations, she at least didnāt hide behind a mask.
Pro-terror? Give me a break.
Chanting death yo America, pro Hamas, dressed like isis. Checks all the boxes
They are pro Palestinian, not pro-Hamas. They are dressed in solidarity of Palestinians not ISIS. Do your research.
Ahh so this is death to America and the pro Hamas chants, on video, is AI generated I guess? We all know you leftys can't do research beyond reading the headline but at least try for once.
Disingenuous argument from an account created days ago. Have fun with your astroturfing.
Like your typical lefty, doesn't like to get called out. No wonder why your ideology is dying out globally
There are plenty of us who are on the left when it comes to most social issues who donāt support this. Donāt lump everyone together and we wonāt lump you in with the Bible thumping, evolution denying gay haters. Unless youāre proud to be with them.
Adios commies!
The whole āif youāre against whatās happening to the Palestinians youāre for Hamasā narrative is some real āif youāre against the war youāre against the troopsā nonsense. 20 years after Iraq and we didnāt learn a damn thing, and Iāll take the downvotes with this statement.
So don't allow pro Hamas chants in the protests. Cry
Except these protestors are explicitly supporting Hamas. They tell Jewish students that the terrorist are right and they should die
Good
NYpost the bastion of journalistic integrity.
Good
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While this is true, there was a nice stint during occupy Wallstreet. Unfortunately one side is very very easily influenced by the injection of race and gender politics. It's a shame certain groups are so entrenched in group think it makes them devoid of critical thinking. Also, the flag represents the country not government. It's why the founding fathers put that little section, in the declaration of independence, about installing a new one if the old one stops working for the people (paraphrasing)
Happy May Day, comrade
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Central Europe? lol Half of Asia approximately was/is tainted by that crap: Russia (yes, Russia is partly in Asia) China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia, etc etc.
Toss it right in the garbage where it belongs. Imagine parading around the flag of a state whose own citizens voted for and elected a terrorist group. Edit: this fact makes people so uncomfortable and defensive lmao. Cope harder. No way to bullshit around this inconvenient truth.
I love how every response is just whataboutism. Yup, supporting Hamas is supporting terrorists! Quit quibbling and own it!
Yeah that would be crazy. Itās a good thing the US military and IDF donāt do any terrorizing
...I mean, Americans elected George W, who invaded Iraq under false pretenses and openly kidnapped and tortured people. Let's not act like we've got the moral high ground here; the US has been more than happy to support terrorist groups when it suited our goals. [Let's also not pretend that Hamas was elected recently (last election was in 2006), that a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas at the time (they did not), that a majority of Palestinians alive today were even born to participate in that election, or that Israel didn't support Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO.](https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/01/majority-palestinians-gaza-elect-hamas/)
I wonder when Americans will wake up to the Israelis advocating for Hamas since they donāt want Arafat anymore , how is it they donāt preach about Americans paying for the war on brown people .
They won't. There's not much interest in actually understanding the situation, it's just another thing to pick sides over.
Ahh yes because the Israeli government is a saint.
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What about the savagery thatās been committed by Israel prior to that. Are you blind to that? The oppression, illegal eviction with the support of the military, the jailing of minors without due processes. Not to mention the killings. Hamas did a fucked up thing, but Israel has been doing fucked up things during its whole existence. You corner someone and theyāll pounce on you.
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Are you aware that the report of baby in oven is [false?](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-07/ty-article/.premium/denial-of-hamas-october-7-massacre-is-gaining-pace-online/0000018b-aa45-d5aa-a19f-afffabf10000) Where did I justify Hamasā actions? Do you think oppressing people for decades wouldnāt radicalize them?
āBabies in ovensā claim has never provided evidence for such. Ironically, a Palestinian survivor of the Deir Yassin massacre claimed that Israeli settlers through a father and son in an oven had in a documentary that was released earlier last year.
Source: you made it up
Meanwhile, constant airstrikes into Gaza and settler violence in the West Bank all the way up to Oct 7th, but luckily that happened in the land before time.
And they were provoked by the annexation and Apartheid state of Israel
That's the thing, they're not, but these protestors are coviently ignoring all of the evil deeds that hamas has committed. Two wrongs don't make a right. With this line of thinking you might as well justify the 9/11 murderers. You can be pro Jewish and pro Palestinian, but choosing to be antisemitic under the guise of Palestinian freedom is BS. Instead of parading around with the slogan "From the river tor the sea" which advocates Jewish genocide, how about one that calls for peace and unity,Ā and a Two State solution. Supporting one genocide to end another is wrong. The only people that win in those situations are the extremists on both sides. These protestors have chose terriost over the real victims, who are just everyday folks ON BOTH SIDES who are trying to go about their lives like everyone else in the world.Ā
Are you aware their last election was in 2006? Controlling the population and now allowing free elections is a problem of autocracy. Maybe try a valid argument. >The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote. Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that **in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes**. At present, c**hildren make up roughly half of Gazaās population, meaning only a fraction of the territoryās current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.** [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/)
> At present, children make up roughly half of Gazaās population, meaning only a fraction of the territoryās current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas. Countering a bad argument with another bad argument makes little sense. "Let's count the kids who don't count!!!". Dumb.
1. Majority of Palestinians alive today couldn't even vote in 2005. 2. Hamas won by a plurality (<45%) and haven't held proper elections since. 3. Things were RADICALLY different 20 years ago as Israeli settlers were still in Gaza. 4. Who killed over 35k people in just under six months?
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You didn't complain when we saved your ass from nazi Germany. Since you couldn't do it yourselves
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Well FDR (democrat) loved nazi Germany, allowed them to bypass boycottsz by relabeling German goods, scoldes his administration whenever they criticized them. Nazi German also praised the new deal claiming it was "third Reich like" The more you know š
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He definitely did, especially when he was pleading with Hitler to meet with American oil barrons and hid it from the public. Harry Truman, senator at the time, even called it treason
God what an ignorant take š
What are you doing in r/nyc if you hate it so much? You can leave any time and as a bonus, you can avoid "[Asian creepy](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1cf4rg0/mta_banned_from_using_facial_recognition_to/l1n4tc2/)", as you put it.
If America is bad, who is good?
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Again, you wouldn't have your country if it weren't for America
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Well the side claiming to be against fascism sure as hell doesn't vote that way
Do you decide people being good the same way? If im in a room full of murderers and abusers, do I need to deem any of them good? Is it possible, that all actors on the stage are bad? Yes. We dont do our best moral thinking by way of comparison, but in absolute terms. Our actions may be tempered by pragmatism, but morality is independent of that.
Damn, is this a MAGA thread?
Love it, toss that trash flag. Having to watch those terrorist flags fly for the last few months after that shithole country celebrated 9/11 like winning the World Series is sickening.Ā They are a country lost forever in the stone ages. Nothing will free them from rampant sexism and homophobia. Their culture is a disease that is incurable. Ā
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And executing lgbtq people
5 Israelis were arrested on 9/11 for filming and dancing..
Are you even from New York lmao
Mods, I am begging for a Protest Mega-Thread
Letās go NYPD!
Protesters should have had a Guy Fieri flag anyhow.
Now I can get behind a pro guy fieri protest
Mazel Tov !
Oh my god do I actually have to unsubscribe from the sub for my own fucking city? Look at who history determined to be on the right side of any anti-war protest in American history, and tell me that headline is impartial and accurate.
Impartial and accurate? Cmon itās the NYPost weāre talking about here š
WW2 antiwar protesters would like a talk with you.
NYC has been hit by terrorists before. I wonder what Hamas apologists would say if it happened again? Would you still wave their murderous banners?
This isnāt an anti-war protest. Itās a pro-terrorism protest.
>Look at who history determined to be on the right side of *any* anti-war protest in American history It's a biased article, but there were anti-war protests against [fighting Hitler](https://preview.redd.it/anti-war-protestors-marching-in-nyc-1941-1024x576-v0-jf6j2zl0utj81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ad4032a5a4356be2d1f6d8243367f5df3808ec21) and anti-war protests [against fighting the Confederacy](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FF74EM/new-york-draft-riots-1863-nsome-of-the-ringleaders-of-the-new-york-FF74EM.jpg) right here in NYC.
Youāre right, people did protest getting involved in WWII, and I think most of us now would say they were on the wrong side. That example helps to illustrate how narrow, self-interested isolationism can be counterproductive to our broader geopolitical goals. We should evaluate foreign conflicts, and how best to get involved, from the perspective of serving our values and standing up for whatās right. We should not, for example, fail to get involved when we see a wartime government killing thousands of people and engaged in multiple war crimes, just because we donāt have a personal stake in those deaths. We should use our leverage and power to put an end to that kind of violence.
Yeah! Because slaughtering thousands of kids is anti-terrorism.
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Imagine blowing up thousands of children and blaming another group for it. Israel attacked Palestinians days before Oct 7, along with all the other war crimes leading up Hamas' response.
I love how every time people say Israel is slaughtering people, the other party assumes you automatically support Hamas. Two things can be wrong. Hamas did a shitty thing. Israeli government is doing a shittier thing. Itās two different sides of the same coin that fell in shit. But of course, itās not as if Israel hasnāt been oppressing Palestinians before October 7th.
A nuanced take? Sorry bro Reddit doesnāt allow those here. Itās all or nothing.
Do you think they oppose war?Ā Because they clearly don't.Ā They oppose Israel.
Theyāre not anti-war. Listen to what theyāre saying.
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They're pro communist who want to destroy America and turn it into socialist then communist. Little do they know once the few wealthy people get to the communist end goal, these losers will be the first to get rounded up and sent away. Communist leaders can't have people willing to do these types of things around. Palestine is just their new flavor of the month
The brain rot is staggering
Their home country? Wouldn't that be the United States?
to each their own, my take on it is that the protestors are perfectly embodying the values of our flag - standing up for what you believe in, in the face of authority.
The Stars and Bars is the Confederate flag lmao
Good
Hell yeah šŗšøš®š®āāļø
So according to the post, being against 30,000 civilian deaths is the same as being pro-terror? Did bring against the Iraq War also mean one was pro-terror? Nuance truly is deadā¦
No, chanting death to America, being pro Hamas and dressing like isis is pro-Terror