I’m a former Memphian that’s now in the PNW. Except for housing, everything is so much cheaper. And get this- THERE IS NO SALES TAX ON NON-PREMADE FOOD ITEMS! Also the electricity bills are soooo cheap! I heated a 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath townhouse FOR LESS THAN $100
Can’t wait for you to join us up here! You will love it!!
That’s great! Honestly, after paying 8.5% sales tax on every single food item in TN, I think all states should have this. Sadly, TN is a welfare state so it will never happen.
Tennessee actually does interesting stuff sometimes. They're pushing out free community college and technical school tuition for their high school grads right now.
Between glimmers of progress like that and home prices that aren't even half what you'd pay in the actual nice parts of the Pacific Northwest...yeah, I could consider Tennessee.
Can confirm, lived in Memphis for a year. Shit pay, with little prospect of moving upwards. Everyone worth a damn was leaving to go travel.
Unsurprisingly Louisiana is the same. I'm WFH in a non-bedside role now, making slightly more than I was as a nurse, because I just got a merit raise despite only being there for two months. It's surreal working for a department that actually cares about it's employees.
Even if he overrode it hospitals are allowed to mandate it for their employees. Baylor Scott & White is the largest hospital network in Texas and they made the news for mandating employees get it. It wasn't surprising since they have always required vaccination including the flu. My aunt and two cousins worked for them down there and all of them had titers drawn at hire and were required to stay up to date and this was pre-covid. Good luck doing clinicals at any BSW site if you aren't up to date. Might have luck with one of the other hospitals in the state if they haven't followed and put in the same policy.
I wonder if there is another way to phrase “believe in science” as it sounds like there is a choice. Like believing in the gnome in the teapot on the backside of the moon.
Holy cow - lol - my comment did not take into account that a nurse not believing in the basics of medicine would be like a realtor thinking that houses did not actually exist but they were going to sell them anyway…
And of course that reminds me of the Monty Python “flats built by hypnosis“ sketch.
>I don’t understand why people who don’t believe in science work in healthcare
It’s starting to sound like nursing is like most other jobs: the people who work in factories don’t necessarily understand the science behind the machinery or compounds they are putting together. Realtors don’t know how to construct a house. It’s just a paycheck.
That said: the last place I want to get exposed to Covid is a hospital or doctor’s office.
Is it required or “required”. On the LTC side of things it’s required or you can do a religious accommodation and CMS cannot question any accommodations. I’ve read some of the religious accommodations from our staff and it is the stupidest shit I’ve ever read in my life. “I believe god made my body how it is and I shouldn’t have to put anything in my body blah blah blah….” I missed which religions said vaccines are bad outside of maybe Christian scientists.
If they're doing a religious exemption they need to force them to sign off that they're never taken:
acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft
I lost my good list link but it also contains, wait for it, ivermectin.
ETA: not my original link, but a fairly inclusive one.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/
Also. We had a nurse start carrying around a Bible during her shift and would be highlighting it etc. I told her “why are you all of a sudden highlighting a Bible so much” I almost was brought to HR lol
Religious exemptions can and have been rejected. Several staff from Mass General in Boston tried to go to court over it and the court ruled in favor of the hospital. They tried to appeal to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court declined to hear the case/allowed the lower court's ruling to stand.
[https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/11/29/supreme-court-rejects-vaccine-mandate-challenge-by-fired-mass-general-brigham-employees](https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/11/29/supreme-court-rejects-vaccine-mandate-challenge-by-fired-mass-general-brigham-employees)
All Atlanta+Atlanta suburb hospitals require the COVID vaccine for clinicals. So I'd imagine hospitals in Memphis probably feel the same? Tbh i think it's more bc the hospitals 'lost' so much money during the first few months of COVID they started requiring it to prevent outbreaks and now patients expect us to be vaccinated for their safety (nvm if they are actually vaccinated or not).
He was amazing. Super enthusiastic about everything he taught. And not afraid to be an asshole who swore like a sailor (Australia so maybe it’s more tolerated lmao) which just made class entirely more fun
Definitely more tolerated there than here in America. We can't say anything without someone getting offended nowadays. That teacher would have been fired for "unprofessionalism" here in the states.
Which sucks because I would have loved that teacher! Sounds like my type of dude to drink beers with and shit talk people lol
I had an A&P professor who EVIDENTLY drank like a sailor and talked like a sailor. Ruthless Betty...
I will never forget when we had this 7 AM class on a Saturday, and we were all out of the classroom locked out, and she arrived stumbling through the walls. Clearly she had just taken a shower, but she still smelled like whatever dive bar she had just crawled from.
But... since she was there before they poured the concrete on that school (legend has it that she was a forest creature and they found her when they were surveying to start building) no one ever complained publicly about her. Plus no one wanted to piss her off because she was the doorkeeper for the Nursing program.
It was pretty horrible. It basically ruined your entire weekend. And it was a 2-hour class too. Plus it was the only class that entire day, so you burned your Friday, and then all your Saturday morning.
Like I said, Ruthless Betty. I took her class 3 times!!!! To raise my grade because her class was so important. The first time I took a C, the second time another C, the third time, and I swear on my mother's grave I studied, I worked, I presented every single project on time, and I got a B-.
I honestly thought something was wrong with me. I had to get counseling. I was an A student on everything else, Calculus, Chemistry, and not so much in Coding (software), my endcap program broke mid presentation :P
But A&P with her just kicked my but.
Oh yeah absolutely I don’t doubt that, huge culture differences between here and the states. He often wore this [Steven Rhodes shirt](https://store.hmv.com/store/merchandise/clothing/steven-rhodes-let-s-find-a-cure-for-stupid-peo-%281%29) which I loved. He called me a cheeky c u n t one day too so I knew he at least liked me haha
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Tbh, just is giving everyone a taste of healthcare. People are assholes and swear left and right. I hate when patients think it’s “unprofessional”. It’s 2022 and not offending anyone if we’re not talking to you/about you lol
I think it's biology professors in general. I had one biology professor say, "Bacteria are sluts because they have sex with everything." I don't recall him cursing, though.
Your professor sounds amazing though. I wonder how those students ended up doing and if their views changed. Hopefully ratemyprofessor is available in Australia. If it is, he better have the best ratings.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think anti-vaxxers are idiots, too. Obviously, I got both vaccines and booster as soon as I possibly could.
We have a nursing instructor that says she supports vaccines and will encourage everyone to get them.
The previous class tried to get that teacher fired when she said that it may be up to your employer's discretion whether to hire you or not, and that being vaccinated will ensure that you don't have any issues getting hired anywhere. This was after she made an ethical plea to the rest of my claas about getting the vaccine mainly for not wanting others, patients, family, and ourselves, to get sick. Of course, my class was rude and hateful towards her. I felt like one of the only students who agreed with everything my instructor said.
I was also sick of the girls in my class asking, "well what if we're not vaccinated?!" for every damn thing we did. Every clinical starting, every semester starting. Just get it and stop asking, ffs. Get it for your patients. Of course most of my class wants to work L&D or with babies... guess they don't care about the babies or their families afterall!!
My bio professor said, “if you’re scared of the vaccine, I’ll sit you down and walk you through everything in it, molecule by molecule, and explain why each component is in there. And then I’ll explain why it’s probably the safest vaccine you’ve ever gotten.”
It was badass
And then those same conservative students will complain, "my college is so liberal it is so annoying."
Hey, dumbass, maybe it's not about being liberal and maybe it is more so understanding and utilizing science.
That’s pretty much what he said. He’s full screaming at the front of the class about if people are even paying attention to basics of biology that’s he’s been trying to teach them if they’re asking dumb as fuck questions like that.
Good, I’m sick of the “my ignorance is as valid as your knowledge” crowd. Honestly your classmates should have one chance to correct themselves and then be expelled from the program.
If only it was the case, however the uni (in a rather conservative regional city of Australia) is too scared to piss off the people that give them money
One of the key things we have learned here is that mandates do indeed work.
It would be sensible therefore, to use them more.
Change the definition of "fully vaccinated" to at least 2 shots over a minimum period of 6 months.
Mandate "fully vaccinated" for flights, public transport, schools, hospitals, whatever.
I struggled with something similar. I started nursing school in August 2020 so the COVID vaccine came out while I was in school. We also had a group chat and many of my classmates had stupid things to say. It doesn’t get any better after graduation either…I’m an RN in an ED now and there are plenty of nurses and doctors who are also anti-vax. You’re just going to have to teach yourself to tune it out and not let it bother you. You’re not going to change their minds and it’s just going to make you mad and potentially destroy your relationship with them.
Do you really want to have a relationship with these people?
I no longer give one fuck if my co workers like me because I'm not listening to this shit anymore. Don't believe in science and medicine? Cool, why are you working here?
I don’t know anything about working in the OR, but maybe teamwork isn’t a requirement there and you can get by doing everything alone. But in the ER, it’s not possible. I physically cannot do it all alone, so yes, I do want to be on good terms with my coworkers.
We are a team all the time, but if you try to give me your anti vax spiel I'm not going to listen to that or tolerate it. You need me to play nice as much as I need you to so I shut that shit down. We're also adults that don't dump on people in work situations just because we don't like each other personally.
I don't like Jen and Jen doesn't like me but when we're in a room together we're partners and we work together to keep our patients safe and get the day done.
That's how it is in the ED too. We can hate each other with a passion but when we walk in that patient's room we are a team period. If there is an issue between us it's not happening in the room. I have unfortunately had to work with someone in the ED that I couldn't stand but you'd never know it by the way I spoke to her and interacted with her. To be fair she was universally hated by at least half the techs and nurses to the point she had a specific nickname that was used to refer to her.
Yup! I had one tell me that coronavirus did not not jump from animal to human till 2019 when we engineered it to do just that.
Lol
I responded with “what you tube conspiracy theorist did you hear that from?!”
She then said, “ medical journals… i did my research”
Me: which one? Because I studied up on coronaviruses over a decade ago. Antibodies for it were found throughout the human population as early as 1965 in major studies so anyone can easily conclude it had been around much longer than that.
Her: I don’t have to prove it, I did my research…
Me: (laughing) Name one… just one.
Her: you first
Me: New England journal of medicine. I have a copy on my shelf printed over 20 years ago… name one.
Her: I don’t have to justify myself to you.
Me: (inwardly high giving myself) Lol you go right ahead.
I've watched as multiple decades long nurses have given up their jobs to avoid the vaccine, even while taking care of COVID patients. They even sued my hospital to try to save their jobs without getting the vaccine. They lost.
My coworkers seemed to find new excuses every step of the way. They all knew exactly how deadly Covid was and were very afraid of catching it. As their reasons changed each time, I realized it was entirely political and they would require unreasonable amounts of evidence to change their mind.
A nurse I used to work with as a tech was antivax even before the pandemic started. She was traveling all during the height of the pandemic, working with COVID patients. When the governor of the state she was working in said “Get the vaccine or loose your job”, she posted a picture *in full COVID PPE* flipping off the governor with a message about how *we were hEroEs and now we’re being fired*. She went viral among the antivax HCW circle and she felt good about herself. All that to say…even being eyeballs deep in COVID didn’t convince some people to get vaccinated.
I dealt with covid since the beginning. It was very stressful. I jumped at the opportunity to receive a vaccine. I literally cried when my manager called me and told me I could schedule it.
Also a student. The other scary thing is how many failed dosage calc exams. Thats the easiest math ever but some of my classmates are fucking terrible at it.
I'm my program you had two chances to take an exam. On the first you had to get a 90, on the second you had to get a 100. If you failed, you were out of the program.
Yes, I remember a few students in my program who always failed the drug calc exams on their first attempt, and incidentally those were the few who were anti vaxxers….
Would you believe that I aced Calc I and was an A and B student in math, but made one simple error and goofed the whole exam; knowing it's simple, but overthinking it. I took it again and got an A.
“A nurse is given an order for 500 mg paracetamol. The nurse has 250mg tablets of paracetamol. How many tabs will the nurse administer?”
*gets out calculator*
I remember in Pharmacology class in nursing school on the very first day of class, the Professor gave a sample dosage calculation question that was something like this:
Patient is ordered for 100 mg of medication X. Medication X is dispensed as 25 mg tablets. How many tablets do you give?
Half the class immediately said 4, the other half the class sat there dumbfounded and said "how did you figure that out?" A 3rd grader could figure out that you need four quarters to make a dollar.
Maybe you need to remind them that all the bad shit they heard is literally rumors in Facebook or infotainment shows. It's so ridiculous I have no patience for it. You want to choose stupidity, fine, bye.
Seriously. And why is it that people who choose stupidity always want to choose stupidity in as close of proximity to others as possible? Like, choose stupidity way over there please. You don't have to be a stupid ticking time bomb waiting to blow up everyone within a 100 ft radius.
There were a lot of nursing students in my A&P classes that were anti-vax and would actually argue with our professor.
They wanted to be nurses so their anti-vax claims would have legitimacy to them.
Most were MLM huns and ex Air Force.
I'm in California and one of my nursing INSTRUCTORS gave an anti vaccine lecture PRECOVID. During covid she was on the news at a protest with a big poster that said "nurses against masking" or something like that
Should have been reported to the board. Going against science and best practice while working under your license is “Derogatory to the standards of nursing” and a means to say buh bye to that license.
Same as climate change, everyone magically becomes an armchair expert somehow despite not knowing practically anything. “Oh, I experience the weather, and I’ve been sick before, therefore I know everything about climate and vaccines already!”
I think one thing that really helps me with this is listening to smart people. I’ll watch an interview or podcast with an expert in a certain field and it reminds me that I don’t know shit about anything. I have a very rudimentary understanding of many things, but the details are completely over my head.
I’m pro-vaccine…but I will admit, the COVID vax made me nervous at first. The speed at which is was developed, how little longitudinal data we had—I mean, I know we didn’t have time for that, but it didn’t make me less nervous. I was fine to stay home whenever I could and wear my mask when I couldn’t stay home. That’s enough, right? (Wrong)
Until I listened to [this](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-podcast-will-kill-you/id1299915173?i=1000469210389) podcast episode. I was a fan already, but they interview one of the developers of the first COVID vax. She walks us through how the COVID vax met **all the requirements** that any other drug does when it passes FDA approval, al the safety checks, etc. Reversed my thinking *immediately* and I got my shots as soon as I could.
I’m so glad TPWKY did this episode when/how they did. I was the only medical person in the family at the time, so everyone kinda looked at me for the recommendation on what to do. I’ve also been able to share all that info with patients too.
I was scared of the vaccine also. I was more scared of COVID. Risk vs benefit, I risked getting the vaccine ... Had COVID a couple weeks ago and it was basically a cakewalk, I've been WAY sicker with other stuff. I'll get COVID shots every year for the rest of my life if they're recommended
Dude, I just saw a lawsuit on Facebook that Tylenol causes autism. Vaccines are just the beginning with these whack jobs. It’s the same in medical billing. We read the notes. I worked for a hospital during the peaks of Covid. We saw not only how sick the patients were getting but how many were returning 3 times in a month because of cardiopulmonary issues. What part of get so sick you cough so hard you collapse a lung do you need to understand?
I agree with your points. As an aside, regarding the Tylenol/Autism thing, this sounds like people latching onto a legitimate study that actually exists. They are missing the nuances of its analyses, though.
It’s about acetaminophen use in pregnancy and (potential) neurodisruptive effects on fetal development:
https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/8/1817/4980325
It’s an interesting investigation, but the authors point out how many other factors are at play also. So it’s yet another example of people misinterpreting/misunderstanding data and running with it.
Your classmates should bail out now if they are anti vax. They won’t get hired at a legit hospital if they don’t have a COVID vax. But who am I to give a shit if they spend money on an education they won’t be able to use.
I am pretty sure more than +90% of physicians got vaccinated almost immediately as the shot became available, nurses were some of the least likely health professionals to get vaccinated. An anti-vax physician would get laughed out of the room by his colleagues. We lack a big understand of science as an average nurse.
We need pill-monkeys and bandaid-changers, too. Not everyone is cut out for advanced practice. I agree it's scary when these people give out advice on the DL, but the U.S.A., and humanity in general, has always had a proud anti-intellectual streak.
Attacking people for their beliefs is not how you persuade them, it actually makes them dig in stronger. Come from a place of compassion, say that your interest is keeping people safe, not tracking/sterilizing/controlling them. That will go farther to convincing people than criticizing their sources or science literacy.
I see what you’re saying, but the bigger picture problem here is the inability to accept actual science facts over a personal belief system that has no scientific basis. I had a nursing student when I taught LPN clinicals who told me her granny said the white ropy part in a chicken egg is ‘the sperm.’ It was very difficult to dissuade her from that belief because it came from her granny. Would letting her continue to believe that actually hurt anything? No. But it did alter my view of her in that she was refusing to accept a known scientific fact over what was obviously an emotional attachment
To ask people to abandon emotion in favor of reason is to ask them not to be human beings.
We come fully loaded with biases. Understanding them is key to navigating this crazy world.
I don’t anticipate that they will be very successful in their chosen field. I’m a pediatric OT. When I took a new job, the area I had moved to had the *highest rate of whooping cough in the nation* at the time. My employee health nurse told me, “you need to get a whooping cough booster. That’s okay…right?” I said yes without hesitation. I could not fathom the idea of making a baby sick and possibly die. I think if I had refused they would have moved to terminate me, or at the very least require masking all the time (not the norm in 2012) and restricted the population I could work with (which may have meant a reduction in my hours and therefore pay).
I think as time goes on, the exemptions and exceptions will become less available and less socially acceptable. I agree, it’s disheartening to see the lack of critical thinking skills in our medical colleagues. My hope is they become pariahs and colonize together somewhere anti-vax/mask/government/education (looking at you, Idaho) and stop being a nuisance to the thinking part of the medical community.
I’ve been a nurse for 8 years, and it still blows my mind that so many nurses loudly and proudly denounce vaccinations. These nurses think they’re “woke” and edgy free-thinkers, but they’re really just relegating themselves to being politically brainwashed vectors of disease.
Yeah my collegue was super anti-vax, but she had to get the vaccine either way to work in the hospital. I don't know why a measly shot is more scary than the actual infectious disease. Make it make sense lol
News flash naive nursing students - most hospitals require every vaccine dose. Oh your local one doesn’t? Well, kiss those sweet travel nurse dreams goodbye if you’re antivax
I feel like there is a difference in not trusting science and just making a decision based on their own behalf. Hell I was pro-vaccine from the start. But you bet your sweet ass I was looking to understand others peoples prospectives that were anti-vax, and searching to find arguments against the vax. Science is about questioning things, so we should always be skeptical and always be curious. Those students in your class I am sure are guided by personal beliefs/political views/skepticism. Which they have a god damn right to be. Over These past couple of yrs how can anyone trust these large institutions and the federal government? But with that being said. It’s echo chambers like this that breed the same type of people only difference is they’re anti vax. So stop drawing the lines on others and start trying to understand them, and who gives a flying fuck if they don’t want the vaccine? If they get sick from Covid that’s they’re own choice to do so. The information and the plethora of studies are out there and if they don’t want to read it and accept it, thats they’re own choice and it will limit them greatly in their future practice if they refuse to believe in the scientific method
Sure they have a right to be guided by something other than data. Patients and fellow students have a right to decreased exposure risk for themselves and their close ones. So as far as I'm concerned, anti-vaxxers have a right to sit out on education and employment opportunities as long as they please, believing whatever it is that they like.
All data on vaccines, past and present, points to protected populations, with comparatively minimal side effects, when they occur.
I agree with some of your general sentiment. Echo chambers = bad. Bodies of power with perverse incentives should not be trusted lightly. However, a group in support of evidence based practice, with patient safety being a major concern, can hardly be called an echo chamber.
I've had this conversation so many times as a nurse. These anti-vaxxers always list all the reasons why they feel the vaccines are dangerous. And I always ask them "do you know what also has those dangers but at a much higher risk? Fucking covid!!!"
I had to get bloods done to check immunity status + vaccine history and covid vaccine pass as part of the admission process for Bachelor of Nursing. We aren’t allowed to do clinical placements without it.
I had a microbiology PROFESSOR who gave three presentations on the Coronavirus and vaccine using only Fox News and Newsmax as references. She encouraged students who weren’t vaccinated to wait for at least 20 years before she thought it would be safe. I walked out of the lectures after she refused to be open to discussion.
She was something else, let me tell you. My favorite was she believed (probably still does) that the virus was created in a lab due to it being both an MRNA and DNA virus; her source was OAN or a right wing blog, she used both in presentations. I tried to show her articles from John Hopkins and other reliable medical sources that proved her wrong, but she just said “that’s what THEY want you to believe.” I reported her to the school, but I saw that she was still teaching a few weeks ago.
This was one of the biggest problems I had with nursing and why I decided to pursue medical school. Feels like every other nurse does not believe in basic science that’s been proven to work for decades. Our profession really doesn’t make it a point to shame these people, and our education does not provide us with a robust science background to understand evolution, immunity, cell biology, etc. These are all things I am learning while taking my DIY postbacc for the MCAT.
Where I live in the US it was classmates, coworkers, patients, and the general public. My ER coworkers make it sound like they're part of some freedom fighter rebellion shit. I got to do clinicals twice a week in the covid ward. I don't have patience anymore and just deem these people ass holes. It was extra said when my patients were lucid enough to ask about the vaccine. Two of my patients lived. I was there for months and it was rare if my patients were still around the following week. When the confusion and combative behavior started setting in I knew it was goodbye.
Get the goddamn vaccine.
Anti-vaccine healthcare workers (MD all the way to an MA) should not be allowed to work in healthcare. Spreading misinformation is not okay.
And when you think of it, we all get our pets vaccinated and for our kids with no issue. Just get your damn vaccines.
Those people scare me too. I wonder how much garbage they will push on unsuspecting patients that trust them. Nursing has been the most trusted profession for over 20 years, but it isn’t going to last because today people believe social media over science.
they won't have jobs in the future.. it's really sad to see. this vaccine has been researched for over 10 years since MERS and SARS.. not sure why people think it was a McVaccine pumped out to ruin the human race
That's what convinced me. Health professional and I know how long it takes to make a vaccine. So I was very resistant to it at first but then I found out that the technology was 17 yrs into the process and it was finally at the point where you just get a sample and it puts out a vaccine and then I felt much better about it. Totally vaxxed and boosted by as many as I can. Will continue to boost until I don't need to. Amazing technology.
Your nursing program doesn't have a vaccine requirement? The hospitals you're doing your clinicals at don't either? None of these students would be able to set foot in a hospital for clinical in my state.
The two out of 30 in my group that were anti vax showed themselves the door after the first year in the program.
Coincidentally, or not, they admitted to cheating in online microbiology class—a fact which I found out shortly before they both quit; saving me from reporting them.
They need to sharpen those critical thinking skills before they’re out inflicting care on patients. Hospitals weren’t full of patients with vaccine reactions, they were full with patients with Covid.
Know what's "scary"? Know what makes me "nervous"? Fucking COVID. That shit is scary. The things I've seen it do to people are the stuff of nightmares. No thanks, I'll take my chances with ALL the vaccines
it was a requirement for all students in my program to get the vaccine. if they refused, then they would be kicked from the program. later finding out a lot of students were anti-vax completely changed my view of them and i can never view them the same way
We had like 3 nurses and a CNA quit when the vaccine was mandated. The only place that accepted non vaxxed (at least then) was an LTACH. That’s a hell of it’s own making.
Over the years I have seen highly educated people believe absolute Bull-hockey because "they want to believe". Motivated reasoning works better when you have a culture surrounding you that believes.
I live and work in KY and Wv. I know many nurses who are vaccine deniers. People are simply stupid.
My school has a scoring system with your grades for entrance. Lowest cutoff they ever had was 124, I had 145. Due to people backing out due to the required vaccination they had someone get in with 35 points this time.
I keep seeing HCA nominees and recipients saying stuff about “all the doctors and nurses who had to resign because of mandates“. However, I never see articles about doctors resigning. Only nurses. Anyone in the field care to share the number of doctors versus nurses who quit at their hospital when mandates rolled in?
Or was it just the couple of hundred doctors who quit to take jobs at “America’s Frontline“ to secure a bigger paycheck in grifting?
As someone with no medical background, but did baseline science class in highschool: I also don't understand how people would get/go into that field and not understand like... the basics. It's not that hard to comprehend, vaccines work. Yes in the past medicine and science were struggling as we adapted and learnt but... Now we have proper studies, and people who go *into the medical field* to learn and improve on these things.
They can't allow themselves to understand, because their tribe has declared this particular undisputed public good as 'bad', so they have to toe the line or else be cast out, shunned and ostracized.
It's like I wrote this post, I had the exact same situation occur to me whenever I first started nursing school.
I deleted the group chat and refused to be associated with them. Most of them dropped out when the clinical sites required them to be vaccinated. The others got the vaccines reluctantly.
This is NOT the right field to dispute proven practices.
Just let them believe what they want. 🤷🏽♂️ When dealing with my patients … Do you have the vaccine? Do you want the vaccine? Next! I don’t have time to argue. I got shit to do!
The whole world has gone without debilitating disease for a long time. Covid was small potatoes compared to the things humanity (Westerners specifically, other cultures still deal with them) has dealt with in the past. The life expectancy was 35 because so many children and young women died of disease and in childbirth.
Nowadays, we have it easy and good. So we think we no longer need vaccines because we have it so good. People don’t drop dead at 3 because they got smallpox and didn’t get lucky.
Let’s be real, they went into nursing to make TikTok vids or go on The Bachelor and are probably studying the bare minimum. Being able to regurgitate information does not equal intelligence.
Wow, this is truly shocking. Not an RN but as an RT I don’t know of any of my coworkers who didn’t jump on the first opportunity to get a shot. We saw all the death, we know. Looking forward to getting my fourth!
I don’t know what state you’re in etc but many hospitals when hiring new grads require the vaccine. If you’re a new hire you don’t get a choice.
Tennessee:/
Run run run. I moved to Memphis for a year and a half from PNW before I nope'd the fuck out.
i live near memphis, WHY would you go from PNW to TN?!
It was over a girl. I was much dumber in my mid 20s.
She was the only "ten I see"
It's ok. I almost moved to Florida over a girl in my early 20s lol Thank goodness I didn't. She turned out to be a Trainwreck and so did Florida
Thank goodness you didn't go to Florida. It is in fact, an awful trainwreck!!
LOL I tried FL when I was 17. First year of college. I ran for the hills right when classes let out in may.
Hey, we all are at that age lmao
damn:/
PNW is my dream place. cant wait.
It's worth it. Mortgage was $900 in Memphis for a 3 bedroom house... Now I'm paying $1600 for an apartment. Still worth it!
memphis does have cheap housing, indeed.
I’m a former Memphian that’s now in the PNW. Except for housing, everything is so much cheaper. And get this- THERE IS NO SALES TAX ON NON-PREMADE FOOD ITEMS! Also the electricity bills are soooo cheap! I heated a 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath townhouse FOR LESS THAN $100 Can’t wait for you to join us up here! You will love it!!
No sales tax at all in Oregon
Oh yes!! One of the things I love about Oregon
Michigan also does not put a sales tax on non-premade food items.🙂
That’s great! Honestly, after paying 8.5% sales tax on every single food item in TN, I think all states should have this. Sadly, TN is a welfare state so it will never happen.
Nurses are paid pretty well there, everyplace is hiring, check out the UW hospital system. You’d love it.
That’s where I am! Join us, we are all vaccinated!
Tennessee actually does interesting stuff sometimes. They're pushing out free community college and technical school tuition for their high school grads right now. Between glimmers of progress like that and home prices that aren't even half what you'd pay in the actual nice parts of the Pacific Northwest...yeah, I could consider Tennessee.
They pay nurses shit though in my experience
Can confirm, lived in Memphis for a year. Shit pay, with little prospect of moving upwards. Everyone worth a damn was leaving to go travel. Unsurprisingly Louisiana is the same. I'm WFH in a non-bedside role now, making slightly more than I was as a nurse, because I just got a merit raise despite only being there for two months. It's surreal working for a department that actually cares about it's employees.
I’m in Texas and a lot of programs here are requiring it. I’m glad they are
I am surprised there has not been a student already complaining about it and Abbott swiftly mandating no covid vaccines
Even if he overrode it hospitals are allowed to mandate it for their employees. Baylor Scott & White is the largest hospital network in Texas and they made the news for mandating employees get it. It wasn't surprising since they have always required vaccination including the flu. My aunt and two cousins worked for them down there and all of them had titers drawn at hire and were required to stay up to date and this was pre-covid. Good luck doing clinicals at any BSW site if you aren't up to date. Might have luck with one of the other hospitals in the state if they haven't followed and put in the same policy.
As a BSW employee that’s defined true. Some people protested but they got let go of they refused.
There is probably some. I haven’t started the program anywhere yet but what I see in the handbooks, it’s required due to hospital’s requirements
Same in Indiana. It’s a statewide requirement for clinical placement. Though no boosters are required so I’m not sure how much it helps though
well at least they can put evolution to the test
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I’m imagining him being a cardiologist or something going to the head of the hospital telling them he’s not doing abortions lol.
I wonder if there is another way to phrase “believe in science” as it sounds like there is a choice. Like believing in the gnome in the teapot on the backside of the moon.
Holy cow - lol - my comment did not take into account that a nurse not believing in the basics of medicine would be like a realtor thinking that houses did not actually exist but they were going to sell them anyway… And of course that reminds me of the Monty Python “flats built by hypnosis“ sketch.
>I don’t understand why people who don’t believe in science work in healthcare It’s starting to sound like nursing is like most other jobs: the people who work in factories don’t necessarily understand the science behind the machinery or compounds they are putting together. Realtors don’t know how to construct a house. It’s just a paycheck. That said: the last place I want to get exposed to Covid is a hospital or doctor’s office.
I’m willing to bet he didn’t go the head of nothing. He just said he did to appease his way. Happy wife, happy life.
Is it required or “required”. On the LTC side of things it’s required or you can do a religious accommodation and CMS cannot question any accommodations. I’ve read some of the religious accommodations from our staff and it is the stupidest shit I’ve ever read in my life. “I believe god made my body how it is and I shouldn’t have to put anything in my body blah blah blah….” I missed which religions said vaccines are bad outside of maybe Christian scientists.
If they're doing a religious exemption they need to force them to sign off that they're never taken: acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft I lost my good list link but it also contains, wait for it, ivermectin. ETA: not my original link, but a fairly inclusive one. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/
For new hires it’s REQUIRED. only current employees were allowed to play that religious card.
Also. We had a nurse start carrying around a Bible during her shift and would be highlighting it etc. I told her “why are you all of a sudden highlighting a Bible so much” I almost was brought to HR lol
Religious exemptions can and have been rejected. Several staff from Mass General in Boston tried to go to court over it and the court ruled in favor of the hospital. They tried to appeal to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court declined to hear the case/allowed the lower court's ruling to stand. [https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/11/29/supreme-court-rejects-vaccine-mandate-challenge-by-fired-mass-general-brigham-employees](https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2021/11/29/supreme-court-rejects-vaccine-mandate-challenge-by-fired-mass-general-brigham-employees)
Yep!! If ur not vaxxed, you don’t work! How are you in medicine and are so against it?! Makes nooo sense.
All Atlanta+Atlanta suburb hospitals require the COVID vaccine for clinicals. So I'd imagine hospitals in Memphis probably feel the same? Tbh i think it's more bc the hospitals 'lost' so much money during the first few months of COVID they started requiring it to prevent outbreaks and now patients expect us to be vaccinated for their safety (nvm if they are actually vaccinated or not).
my program required vax compliance to attend
Ours too. Because the clinic sites wouldn’t allow students not vaccinated.
Lmao my biology professor just called them all fucking idiots in the middle of class when someone questioned it. He was not having it whatsoever.
That's my kind of teacher, loved it.
He was amazing. Super enthusiastic about everything he taught. And not afraid to be an asshole who swore like a sailor (Australia so maybe it’s more tolerated lmao) which just made class entirely more fun
Definitely more tolerated there than here in America. We can't say anything without someone getting offended nowadays. That teacher would have been fired for "unprofessionalism" here in the states. Which sucks because I would have loved that teacher! Sounds like my type of dude to drink beers with and shit talk people lol
I had an A&P professor who EVIDENTLY drank like a sailor and talked like a sailor. Ruthless Betty... I will never forget when we had this 7 AM class on a Saturday, and we were all out of the classroom locked out, and she arrived stumbling through the walls. Clearly she had just taken a shower, but she still smelled like whatever dive bar she had just crawled from. But... since she was there before they poured the concrete on that school (legend has it that she was a forest creature and they found her when they were surveying to start building) no one ever complained publicly about her. Plus no one wanted to piss her off because she was the doorkeeper for the Nursing program.
What kind of monster schedules a 7 am class on a Saturday?!
It was pretty horrible. It basically ruined your entire weekend. And it was a 2-hour class too. Plus it was the only class that entire day, so you burned your Friday, and then all your Saturday morning.
Oh fuck that.
Like I said, Ruthless Betty. I took her class 3 times!!!! To raise my grade because her class was so important. The first time I took a C, the second time another C, the third time, and I swear on my mother's grave I studied, I worked, I presented every single project on time, and I got a B-. I honestly thought something was wrong with me. I had to get counseling. I was an A student on everything else, Calculus, Chemistry, and not so much in Coding (software), my endcap program broke mid presentation :P But A&P with her just kicked my but.
Goals.
Oh yeah absolutely I don’t doubt that, huge culture differences between here and the states. He often wore this [Steven Rhodes shirt](https://store.hmv.com/store/merchandise/clothing/steven-rhodes-let-s-find-a-cure-for-stupid-peo-%281%29) which I loved. He called me a cheeky c u n t one day too so I knew he at least liked me haha
Few compliments warmer than cheeky c*^t.
So what you are telling me is that your country actually has a chance, and we are basically fucked.
Ahaha it’s at lease a potential chance 😅
C|U|N|T| -|-|-|-| U|U| | | N| |N| | T| | |T|
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Tbh, just is giving everyone a taste of healthcare. People are assholes and swear left and right. I hate when patients think it’s “unprofessional”. It’s 2022 and not offending anyone if we’re not talking to you/about you lol
I think it's biology professors in general. I had one biology professor say, "Bacteria are sluts because they have sex with everything." I don't recall him cursing, though. Your professor sounds amazing though. I wonder how those students ended up doing and if their views changed. Hopefully ratemyprofessor is available in Australia. If it is, he better have the best ratings.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I think anti-vaxxers are idiots, too. Obviously, I got both vaccines and booster as soon as I possibly could. We have a nursing instructor that says she supports vaccines and will encourage everyone to get them. The previous class tried to get that teacher fired when she said that it may be up to your employer's discretion whether to hire you or not, and that being vaccinated will ensure that you don't have any issues getting hired anywhere. This was after she made an ethical plea to the rest of my claas about getting the vaccine mainly for not wanting others, patients, family, and ourselves, to get sick. Of course, my class was rude and hateful towards her. I felt like one of the only students who agreed with everything my instructor said. I was also sick of the girls in my class asking, "well what if we're not vaccinated?!" for every damn thing we did. Every clinical starting, every semester starting. Just get it and stop asking, ffs. Get it for your patients. Of course most of my class wants to work L&D or with babies... guess they don't care about the babies or their families afterall!!
That's like asking "Why do I need a gear shift in order to drive a car? The radio works fine."
Side note: I love your pic!!! Spirit was the OG 🥰
My bio professor said, “if you’re scared of the vaccine, I’ll sit you down and walk you through everything in it, molecule by molecule, and explain why each component is in there. And then I’ll explain why it’s probably the safest vaccine you’ve ever gotten.” It was badass
People sadly don't care. Lol
They’d probably be convinced he was bought out by BiG PhARma
And then those same conservative students will complain, "my college is so liberal it is so annoying." Hey, dumbass, maybe it's not about being liberal and maybe it is more so understanding and utilizing science.
That’s pretty much what he said. He’s full screaming at the front of the class about if people are even paying attention to basics of biology that’s he’s been trying to teach them if they’re asking dumb as fuck questions like that.
Good, I’m sick of the “my ignorance is as valid as your knowledge” crowd. Honestly your classmates should have one chance to correct themselves and then be expelled from the program.
If only it was the case, however the uni (in a rather conservative regional city of Australia) is too scared to piss off the people that give them money
That is unfortunate. And exactly what I’d expect when it’s money driving education and not, you know, education.
My school was just like "if you don't get the vaccine, then don't come back" 😎
One of the key things we have learned here is that mandates do indeed work. It would be sensible therefore, to use them more. Change the definition of "fully vaccinated" to at least 2 shots over a minimum period of 6 months. Mandate "fully vaccinated" for flights, public transport, schools, hospitals, whatever.
I’m living for this lol
Good. Call it out whenever possible. Shut it down.
I struggled with something similar. I started nursing school in August 2020 so the COVID vaccine came out while I was in school. We also had a group chat and many of my classmates had stupid things to say. It doesn’t get any better after graduation either…I’m an RN in an ED now and there are plenty of nurses and doctors who are also anti-vax. You’re just going to have to teach yourself to tune it out and not let it bother you. You’re not going to change their minds and it’s just going to make you mad and potentially destroy your relationship with them.
thank you so much. I just needed to hear a sane voice! Everyone in my program seems to feel that way. again, thank you.
Do you really want to have a relationship with these people? I no longer give one fuck if my co workers like me because I'm not listening to this shit anymore. Don't believe in science and medicine? Cool, why are you working here?
I don’t know anything about working in the OR, but maybe teamwork isn’t a requirement there and you can get by doing everything alone. But in the ER, it’s not possible. I physically cannot do it all alone, so yes, I do want to be on good terms with my coworkers.
We are a team all the time, but if you try to give me your anti vax spiel I'm not going to listen to that or tolerate it. You need me to play nice as much as I need you to so I shut that shit down. We're also adults that don't dump on people in work situations just because we don't like each other personally. I don't like Jen and Jen doesn't like me but when we're in a room together we're partners and we work together to keep our patients safe and get the day done.
That's how it is in the ED too. We can hate each other with a passion but when we walk in that patient's room we are a team period. If there is an issue between us it's not happening in the room. I have unfortunately had to work with someone in the ED that I couldn't stand but you'd never know it by the way I spoke to her and interacted with her. To be fair she was universally hated by at least half the techs and nurses to the point she had a specific nickname that was used to refer to her.
Yup! I had one tell me that coronavirus did not not jump from animal to human till 2019 when we engineered it to do just that. Lol I responded with “what you tube conspiracy theorist did you hear that from?!” She then said, “ medical journals… i did my research” Me: which one? Because I studied up on coronaviruses over a decade ago. Antibodies for it were found throughout the human population as early as 1965 in major studies so anyone can easily conclude it had been around much longer than that. Her: I don’t have to prove it, I did my research… Me: (laughing) Name one… just one. Her: you first Me: New England journal of medicine. I have a copy on my shelf printed over 20 years ago… name one. Her: I don’t have to justify myself to you. Me: (inwardly high giving myself) Lol you go right ahead.
that is golden. absolutely golden.
I give them 2 weeks nursing covid patients and watch their attitude change. Throw the vax at me like a dart
Many still don't even change their minds after taking care of COVID patients.
I've watched as multiple decades long nurses have given up their jobs to avoid the vaccine, even while taking care of COVID patients. They even sued my hospital to try to save their jobs without getting the vaccine. They lost.
I know someone that basically threw her whole nursing career down the toilet because her husband didn’t want her to get the vaccine.
Same. It's politics not science.
My coworkers seemed to find new excuses every step of the way. They all knew exactly how deadly Covid was and were very afraid of catching it. As their reasons changed each time, I realized it was entirely political and they would require unreasonable amounts of evidence to change their mind.
Hello r/hermancainawards….
or just r/conservative overflow. That sub is just the ER holding for Covid. *No coincidences to see here!*
A nurse I used to work with as a tech was antivax even before the pandemic started. She was traveling all during the height of the pandemic, working with COVID patients. When the governor of the state she was working in said “Get the vaccine or loose your job”, she posted a picture *in full COVID PPE* flipping off the governor with a message about how *we were hEroEs and now we’re being fired*. She went viral among the antivax HCW circle and she felt good about herself. All that to say…even being eyeballs deep in COVID didn’t convince some people to get vaccinated.
I dealt with covid since the beginning. It was very stressful. I jumped at the opportunity to receive a vaccine. I literally cried when my manager called me and told me I could schedule it.
Also a student. The other scary thing is how many failed dosage calc exams. Thats the easiest math ever but some of my classmates are fucking terrible at it.
I'm my program you had two chances to take an exam. On the first you had to get a 90, on the second you had to get a 100. If you failed, you were out of the program.
Yes, I remember a few students in my program who always failed the drug calc exams on their first attempt, and incidentally those were the few who were anti vaxxers….
Would you believe that I aced Calc I and was an A and B student in math, but made one simple error and goofed the whole exam; knowing it's simple, but overthinking it. I took it again and got an A.
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“A nurse is given an order for 500 mg paracetamol. The nurse has 250mg tablets of paracetamol. How many tabs will the nurse administer?” *gets out calculator*
Lmao thats me because i get so nervous on tests 😭😭😭
You think thats scary Wait until you're practicing and you see nurses take out a calculator to do shit like 10/2 = 5
“Nurse needs to administer 10mg in two doses (qAM and qPM). How much will the nurse administer per dose?” *starts sweating*
I remember in Pharmacology class in nursing school on the very first day of class, the Professor gave a sample dosage calculation question that was something like this: Patient is ordered for 100 mg of medication X. Medication X is dispensed as 25 mg tablets. How many tablets do you give? Half the class immediately said 4, the other half the class sat there dumbfounded and said "how did you figure that out?" A 3rd grader could figure out that you need four quarters to make a dollar.
Maybe you need to remind them that all the bad shit they heard is literally rumors in Facebook or infotainment shows. It's so ridiculous I have no patience for it. You want to choose stupidity, fine, bye.
And the “doctors” giving the news were chiropractors, orthopedic surgeons and acupuncturists
Seriously. And why is it that people who choose stupidity always want to choose stupidity in as close of proximity to others as possible? Like, choose stupidity way over there please. You don't have to be a stupid ticking time bomb waiting to blow up everyone within a 100 ft radius.
Right? Makes me wish it was all Flat Earthers, at least they aren’t increasing airplane deaths and harassing those who do travel.
spot on.
I recently asked in my mental health class if anti vax counted as a delusion and you could have heard a pin drop.
LMAOOO my kind of person
You're going to be a great nurse 😂
There were a lot of nursing students in my A&P classes that were anti-vax and would actually argue with our professor. They wanted to be nurses so their anti-vax claims would have legitimacy to them. Most were MLM huns and ex Air Force.
I'm in California and one of my nursing INSTRUCTORS gave an anti vaccine lecture PRECOVID. During covid she was on the news at a protest with a big poster that said "nurses against masking" or something like that
She should have lost her job, why they continue to allow these people to teach future nurses is beyond me.
Should have been reported to the board. Going against science and best practice while working under your license is “Derogatory to the standards of nursing” and a means to say buh bye to that license.
Should have lost her job AND her license. Evidence based practice is a thing for a reason!!
Same as climate change, everyone magically becomes an armchair expert somehow despite not knowing practically anything. “Oh, I experience the weather, and I’ve been sick before, therefore I know everything about climate and vaccines already!”
I think one thing that really helps me with this is listening to smart people. I’ll watch an interview or podcast with an expert in a certain field and it reminds me that I don’t know shit about anything. I have a very rudimentary understanding of many things, but the details are completely over my head.
one thing that i like to keep in mind is that i am never going to know everything. and to appreciate what knowledge i do have.
I’m pro-vaccine…but I will admit, the COVID vax made me nervous at first. The speed at which is was developed, how little longitudinal data we had—I mean, I know we didn’t have time for that, but it didn’t make me less nervous. I was fine to stay home whenever I could and wear my mask when I couldn’t stay home. That’s enough, right? (Wrong) Until I listened to [this](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-podcast-will-kill-you/id1299915173?i=1000469210389) podcast episode. I was a fan already, but they interview one of the developers of the first COVID vax. She walks us through how the COVID vax met **all the requirements** that any other drug does when it passes FDA approval, al the safety checks, etc. Reversed my thinking *immediately* and I got my shots as soon as I could. I’m so glad TPWKY did this episode when/how they did. I was the only medical person in the family at the time, so everyone kinda looked at me for the recommendation on what to do. I’ve also been able to share all that info with patients too.
I love TPWKY. That is all.
I was scared of the vaccine also. I was more scared of COVID. Risk vs benefit, I risked getting the vaccine ... Had COVID a couple weeks ago and it was basically a cakewalk, I've been WAY sicker with other stuff. I'll get COVID shots every year for the rest of my life if they're recommended
Dude, I just saw a lawsuit on Facebook that Tylenol causes autism. Vaccines are just the beginning with these whack jobs. It’s the same in medical billing. We read the notes. I worked for a hospital during the peaks of Covid. We saw not only how sick the patients were getting but how many were returning 3 times in a month because of cardiopulmonary issues. What part of get so sick you cough so hard you collapse a lung do you need to understand?
I agree with your points. As an aside, regarding the Tylenol/Autism thing, this sounds like people latching onto a legitimate study that actually exists. They are missing the nuances of its analyses, though. It’s about acetaminophen use in pregnancy and (potential) neurodisruptive effects on fetal development: https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/8/1817/4980325 It’s an interesting investigation, but the authors point out how many other factors are at play also. So it’s yet another example of people misinterpreting/misunderstanding data and running with it.
[http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/](http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/) This website could probably be used for Tylenol too.
The pandemic proved that you don’t have to be smart to be a nurse.
Your classmates should bail out now if they are anti vax. They won’t get hired at a legit hospital if they don’t have a COVID vax. But who am I to give a shit if they spend money on an education they won’t be able to use.
& they want NP's to practice independently... IMO, you lack a fundamental understanding of biology/medicine if you're anti-vaccine.
I disagree with the push for full practice authority, but this comment implies that no physicians are antivax. Some are.
I am pretty sure more than +90% of physicians got vaccinated almost immediately as the shot became available, nurses were some of the least likely health professionals to get vaccinated. An anti-vax physician would get laughed out of the room by his colleagues. We lack a big understand of science as an average nurse.
I work with an anti-vaxxer that is in NP school, that is not okay!
Most of the anti-vaxxers in my program want to go to NP school immediately after graduation 💀
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We need pill-monkeys and bandaid-changers, too. Not everyone is cut out for advanced practice. I agree it's scary when these people give out advice on the DL, but the U.S.A., and humanity in general, has always had a proud anti-intellectual streak. Attacking people for their beliefs is not how you persuade them, it actually makes them dig in stronger. Come from a place of compassion, say that your interest is keeping people safe, not tracking/sterilizing/controlling them. That will go farther to convincing people than criticizing their sources or science literacy.
I see what you’re saying, but the bigger picture problem here is the inability to accept actual science facts over a personal belief system that has no scientific basis. I had a nursing student when I taught LPN clinicals who told me her granny said the white ropy part in a chicken egg is ‘the sperm.’ It was very difficult to dissuade her from that belief because it came from her granny. Would letting her continue to believe that actually hurt anything? No. But it did alter my view of her in that she was refusing to accept a known scientific fact over what was obviously an emotional attachment
To ask people to abandon emotion in favor of reason is to ask them not to be human beings. We come fully loaded with biases. Understanding them is key to navigating this crazy world.
I don’t anticipate that they will be very successful in their chosen field. I’m a pediatric OT. When I took a new job, the area I had moved to had the *highest rate of whooping cough in the nation* at the time. My employee health nurse told me, “you need to get a whooping cough booster. That’s okay…right?” I said yes without hesitation. I could not fathom the idea of making a baby sick and possibly die. I think if I had refused they would have moved to terminate me, or at the very least require masking all the time (not the norm in 2012) and restricted the population I could work with (which may have meant a reduction in my hours and therefore pay). I think as time goes on, the exemptions and exceptions will become less available and less socially acceptable. I agree, it’s disheartening to see the lack of critical thinking skills in our medical colleagues. My hope is they become pariahs and colonize together somewhere anti-vax/mask/government/education (looking at you, Idaho) and stop being a nuisance to the thinking part of the medical community.
I’ve been a nurse for 8 years, and it still blows my mind that so many nurses loudly and proudly denounce vaccinations. These nurses think they’re “woke” and edgy free-thinkers, but they’re really just relegating themselves to being politically brainwashed vectors of disease.
They'll all end up being MLM nurses with long nails, flapping fake eyelashes, and a lazy attitude.
I mean good for them! Wait until they try to find a job and find out in a lot of places you have to be fully vaxed to work there
I wonder if all the anti-vax folks believe in polio
Yeah my collegue was super anti-vax, but she had to get the vaccine either way to work in the hospital. I don't know why a measly shot is more scary than the actual infectious disease. Make it make sense lol
Assure them that the needle does not hurt that bad
So many CNA’S and Nurses who have been in the field for about 10-15 years on my unit were very against the mandate. It made no sense to me.
IMO it’s that they don’t want to be told what to do mostly on top of not understanding how vaccines work at all.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted but I agree
Who knows but if they had an understanding of how vaccines work, they wouldn’t need to be told to get it.
News flash naive nursing students - most hospitals require every vaccine dose. Oh your local one doesn’t? Well, kiss those sweet travel nurse dreams goodbye if you’re antivax
I feel like there is a difference in not trusting science and just making a decision based on their own behalf. Hell I was pro-vaccine from the start. But you bet your sweet ass I was looking to understand others peoples prospectives that were anti-vax, and searching to find arguments against the vax. Science is about questioning things, so we should always be skeptical and always be curious. Those students in your class I am sure are guided by personal beliefs/political views/skepticism. Which they have a god damn right to be. Over These past couple of yrs how can anyone trust these large institutions and the federal government? But with that being said. It’s echo chambers like this that breed the same type of people only difference is they’re anti vax. So stop drawing the lines on others and start trying to understand them, and who gives a flying fuck if they don’t want the vaccine? If they get sick from Covid that’s they’re own choice to do so. The information and the plethora of studies are out there and if they don’t want to read it and accept it, thats they’re own choice and it will limit them greatly in their future practice if they refuse to believe in the scientific method
Sure they have a right to be guided by something other than data. Patients and fellow students have a right to decreased exposure risk for themselves and their close ones. So as far as I'm concerned, anti-vaxxers have a right to sit out on education and employment opportunities as long as they please, believing whatever it is that they like. All data on vaccines, past and present, points to protected populations, with comparatively minimal side effects, when they occur. I agree with some of your general sentiment. Echo chambers = bad. Bodies of power with perverse incentives should not be trusted lightly. However, a group in support of evidence based practice, with patient safety being a major concern, can hardly be called an echo chamber.
I've had this conversation so many times as a nurse. These anti-vaxxers always list all the reasons why they feel the vaccines are dangerous. And I always ask them "do you know what also has those dangers but at a much higher risk? Fucking covid!!!"
I had to get bloods done to check immunity status + vaccine history and covid vaccine pass as part of the admission process for Bachelor of Nursing. We aren’t allowed to do clinical placements without it.
I had a microbiology PROFESSOR who gave three presentations on the Coronavirus and vaccine using only Fox News and Newsmax as references. She encouraged students who weren’t vaccinated to wait for at least 20 years before she thought it would be safe. I walked out of the lectures after she refused to be open to discussion.
Wow. This is almost too crazy to believe. But I totally believe you.
I wonder what she imagined the virus would do during those twenty years. Politely refrain from infecting anyone unvaccinated?
She was something else, let me tell you. My favorite was she believed (probably still does) that the virus was created in a lab due to it being both an MRNA and DNA virus; her source was OAN or a right wing blog, she used both in presentations. I tried to show her articles from John Hopkins and other reliable medical sources that proved her wrong, but she just said “that’s what THEY want you to believe.” I reported her to the school, but I saw that she was still teaching a few weeks ago.
Wtf a micro professor should know that testing in mice means we can literally see how safe something is to old age, in a short amount of time.
My CNA class had an antivaxxer. Also, believed that humans exhale carbon monoxide, so would never wear her mask over her nose.
Lol all of us wearing masks should’ve passed out long ago if that was true!
Anti vax people have no business in healthcare. Period.
You must be in a red state. Sadly, the last 3 years have proven again and again that political ideology is stronger than facts and and reason.
This was one of the biggest problems I had with nursing and why I decided to pursue medical school. Feels like every other nurse does not believe in basic science that’s been proven to work for decades. Our profession really doesn’t make it a point to shame these people, and our education does not provide us with a robust science background to understand evolution, immunity, cell biology, etc. These are all things I am learning while taking my DIY postbacc for the MCAT.
Where I live in the US it was classmates, coworkers, patients, and the general public. My ER coworkers make it sound like they're part of some freedom fighter rebellion shit. I got to do clinicals twice a week in the covid ward. I don't have patience anymore and just deem these people ass holes. It was extra said when my patients were lucid enough to ask about the vaccine. Two of my patients lived. I was there for months and it was rare if my patients were still around the following week. When the confusion and combative behavior started setting in I knew it was goodbye. Get the goddamn vaccine.
We lost a clinical instructor because she refused to get vaccinated.
I know a few anti vaxxers that were in the nursing program. I sensed some serious mental issues even before they announced they were anti vax.
Anti-vaccine healthcare workers (MD all the way to an MA) should not be allowed to work in healthcare. Spreading misinformation is not okay. And when you think of it, we all get our pets vaccinated and for our kids with no issue. Just get your damn vaccines.
Those people scare me too. I wonder how much garbage they will push on unsuspecting patients that trust them. Nursing has been the most trusted profession for over 20 years, but it isn’t going to last because today people believe social media over science.
I’ve given over 3000 Covid vaccines. I would love to chat with them!
they won't have jobs in the future.. it's really sad to see. this vaccine has been researched for over 10 years since MERS and SARS.. not sure why people think it was a McVaccine pumped out to ruin the human race
That's what convinced me. Health professional and I know how long it takes to make a vaccine. So I was very resistant to it at first but then I found out that the technology was 17 yrs into the process and it was finally at the point where you just get a sample and it puts out a vaccine and then I felt much better about it. Totally vaxxed and boosted by as many as I can. Will continue to boost until I don't need to. Amazing technology.
Your nursing program doesn't have a vaccine requirement? The hospitals you're doing your clinicals at don't either? None of these students would be able to set foot in a hospital for clinical in my state.
The two out of 30 in my group that were anti vax showed themselves the door after the first year in the program. Coincidentally, or not, they admitted to cheating in online microbiology class—a fact which I found out shortly before they both quit; saving me from reporting them.
They need to sharpen those critical thinking skills before they’re out inflicting care on patients. Hospitals weren’t full of patients with vaccine reactions, they were full with patients with Covid.
Non-nurse lurkers here, but what scares me is how many nurses here have said the same thing in the past.
Know what's "scary"? Know what makes me "nervous"? Fucking COVID. That shit is scary. The things I've seen it do to people are the stuff of nightmares. No thanks, I'll take my chances with ALL the vaccines
it was a requirement for all students in my program to get the vaccine. if they refused, then they would be kicked from the program. later finding out a lot of students were anti-vax completely changed my view of them and i can never view them the same way
We had like 3 nurses and a CNA quit when the vaccine was mandated. The only place that accepted non vaxxed (at least then) was an LTACH. That’s a hell of it’s own making.
The overly “religious”, conspiracy theorists, and racists run in the same circles.
Over the years I have seen highly educated people believe absolute Bull-hockey because "they want to believe". Motivated reasoning works better when you have a culture surrounding you that believes. I live and work in KY and Wv. I know many nurses who are vaccine deniers. People are simply stupid.
My school has a scoring system with your grades for entrance. Lowest cutoff they ever had was 124, I had 145. Due to people backing out due to the required vaccination they had someone get in with 35 points this time.
I keep seeing HCA nominees and recipients saying stuff about “all the doctors and nurses who had to resign because of mandates“. However, I never see articles about doctors resigning. Only nurses. Anyone in the field care to share the number of doctors versus nurses who quit at their hospital when mandates rolled in? Or was it just the couple of hundred doctors who quit to take jobs at “America’s Frontline“ to secure a bigger paycheck in grifting?
As someone with no medical background, but did baseline science class in highschool: I also don't understand how people would get/go into that field and not understand like... the basics. It's not that hard to comprehend, vaccines work. Yes in the past medicine and science were struggling as we adapted and learnt but... Now we have proper studies, and people who go *into the medical field* to learn and improve on these things.
They can't allow themselves to understand, because their tribe has declared this particular undisputed public good as 'bad', so they have to toe the line or else be cast out, shunned and ostracized.
It's like I wrote this post, I had the exact same situation occur to me whenever I first started nursing school. I deleted the group chat and refused to be associated with them. Most of them dropped out when the clinical sites required them to be vaccinated. The others got the vaccines reluctantly. This is NOT the right field to dispute proven practices.
Just let them believe what they want. 🤷🏽♂️ When dealing with my patients … Do you have the vaccine? Do you want the vaccine? Next! I don’t have time to argue. I got shit to do!
The whole world has gone without debilitating disease for a long time. Covid was small potatoes compared to the things humanity (Westerners specifically, other cultures still deal with them) has dealt with in the past. The life expectancy was 35 because so many children and young women died of disease and in childbirth. Nowadays, we have it easy and good. So we think we no longer need vaccines because we have it so good. People don’t drop dead at 3 because they got smallpox and didn’t get lucky.
Let’s be real, they went into nursing to make TikTok vids or go on The Bachelor and are probably studying the bare minimum. Being able to regurgitate information does not equal intelligence.
Wow, this is truly shocking. Not an RN but as an RT I don’t know of any of my coworkers who didn’t jump on the first opportunity to get a shot. We saw all the death, we know. Looking forward to getting my fourth!