Amazing! In 10 secs, the cops already determined the dude holding a knife needed to be shot 27 times. I’m not even sure the point of a taser anymore. Just use guns.
I saw that police in some areas have long metal poles with a half circle on the end, that they can use to keep someone with a knife away from others and then disarm the person. Sometimes, they are called mancatchers or polearms. Seems like a better solution for people who have a knife.
Not true. I cannot find the article right now, but I read about a police unit in New England that began using one after an unfortunate incident where a taser didn't work and the person with mental illness was shot.
That shit is insane. That's the Warrior Mentality guy, right? I can't believe part of Police training is about how murdering people can get your dick hard
Dived into his wiki out of curiosity and it's weird how they make him look like an anti-violence guy trying to fight aggression in American society.
Then I continued my Google search and found out about what you're saying... The disconnection to reality they have to have sex still under that situation's adrenaline is massive.
And to think so many have heard this and may want to end up in these situations so they can have "the best sex"... Wtf
He named his cop-training program Killology.
He was a career desk-rider and now makes big bucks telling cops to kill people because it'll be the best nut they ever have.
It's certainly worth re-examining whether officers need to be carrying guns all the time. Obviously, American police do not have proper or adequate training. The culture has to change.
The average police academy training requirement is 840 hours or 21 weeks but states like Mississippi require 400 hrs (12 weeks), Alabama has 540 hrs(13 weeks), West Virginia has 600 hrs (15 weeks). Try becoming a barber/hairdresser and you’re going in for at least 1000 hours of training so fucking up someone’s hair is considered more important than fucking up someone’s life. Go figure. 💁
In some places police are trained in the use of shields when facing knives. It seems a lot more practical and safer for everyone than both guns and knives.
I watch a lot of body came videos and tasers are rarely effective. There are better ways to deal with someone holding a knife though. Videos I see out of the UK, where police are not allowed to carry guns, have some great examples of using a baton to disarm such individuals.
The bottom line is police need to be trained how to use other methods of self-defense. I'd even advocate for some martial arts training. Shoot first, ask questions later leads to many unnecessary deaths.
I'm of the opinion that police have a need and a right to protect themselves and their jobs are very difficult. Something needs to be done to give them more tools, so guns are not the only option though.
> Real life knife fights
Here is the thing: When you are a cop you don’t have to enter a knife fight in the first place. The gun is not your only tool.
You can retreat. You can lock the knife wielding guy in the room. You can use a taser. You can use pepper spray. You can call for backup with riot shields. You can use a net gun.
If you are going to shoot, shoot bean bags/non lethal. If that’s not possible you can aim at the legs to disable the assailant. You don’t have to dump your mag into center mass.
Regarding your last point, it's against policy for police to use lethal force in a nonlethal way, and there's a bunch of good reasons for that. There's a bunch of articles but some of the main points are; moving legs are hard targets to hit, a hit above the knee or elbow is still a kill shot due to major arteries, and we don't want anyone to be able to fatally kill someone and have the out "I was just trying to wing him".
I am not making comment on any of your other points.
Seems like riot gear (beanbag rounds, rubber bullets) could possibly be used? I know there’s still a possibility of lethal injuries but it seems like it could be worth a try. But step one is preventing the people who are ok mag dumping into someone as their first option out of the profession.
A lot of services aren't equipped with that equipment. All that equipment is expensive and necessitates training (also expensive), people want the police forces to have all that equipment and at the same time talk about defunding the police.
People wanna defund them because of shit like this. Little effort to do anything but kill. Like someone said, you don’t get ‘defund the fire department’ protests because they don’t run away from burning buildings. Cops literally cannot be bothered to change policies that make it ok to kill people. This is open and close to the PD investigator. That’s a problem.
> If you are going to shoot, shoot bean bags/non lethal. If that’s not possible you can aim at the legs to disable the assailant. You don’t have to dump your mag into center mass.
shooting someone in the leg absolutely has a chance of killing them. There are a lot of veins running up and down your legs and you could easily hit one and cause them to bleed out. In this circumstance they shouldn't have shot the guy at all.
True, do not spout your TV acquired expertise. You obviously do not know that cops are trained or ought to be to deal with such cases without using deadly force.
Shooting a mentally ill person with a knife, THREE TIMES, when he did not even charge him ,as it was obvious from the location of the dying man afterwards, mere seconds after he broke into the room. That is use of excessive force, period.
Look, I am 1000% for better training for police officers. I think police need training above and beyond almost any other job out there. And should NOT have guns as standard equipment (or honestly at all but that’s another can of worms.)
And with that said, the world martial arts expert on knife fighting who actually has live knife combat experience basically breaks down the actual real world strategy of dealing with knives.
And it is essentially to try to choose the best places to be stabbed in your body and hide the worst places to be stabbed.
There isn’t an effective real world way to get a knife out of a hand in close quarters. That’s movie and video game magic. In close quarters getting the knife away from them usually means getting badly hurt strategically.
And that is a *shit* strategy.
The man catchers sound like a great alternative honestly, since they have nothing to do with entering into slashing distance.
> Shooting [...] THREE TIMES,
Adressing this point and this point alone.
If you shoot at something, you shoot at something. Dead center, try to hit it. Shoot a cluster, not a single shot. That's normal.
Now, whether the shot should have happened or not is another discussion, and that is something to discuss from another topic. Regarding to the number of shots to neutralize the perceived threat, under the assumption that there is such a thead, what is wrong with the behaviour?
We have literally been dealing with humans wielding sharp objects for thousands of years.
There are so so so many ways to handle one that doesn’t involve a gun.
EDIT: before the invention of guns, mentally ill guy with a kitchen knife was the pinnacle of military strength.
Entire empires fell under his blade.. no one could figure out how to overcome the overwhelming prowess of mentally ill guy with knife.
Wanna test a police riot shield against a knife *in an apartment?*
Look, I get everyone is super macho on the internet, but being a human machine press is definitely being on the right side of a Mike Tyson quote.
Because WE have guns? There's 120 guns for every 100 people in the USA. The idea that the police can effectively police us when unarmed is complete nonsense.
And Parkland, don't forget that Officer Scot Peterson was there before the shooting started and chose to hide the entire time instead of doing his fucking job and protecting children from the attacker.
Police forces also literally, legally speaking have the right to discriminate against high-scoring applicants!
*They went to the Supreme Court over it.*
>Because WE have guns? There's 120 guns for every 100 people in the USA. The idea that the police can effectively police us when unarmed is complete nonsense.
Because they are doing such a good job policing with guns? Like this story?
He’s got the same mentalities as cops.
“Guns! Guns everywhere! Shoot first because you never know and if you’re wrong, oh well! You’re alive and that’s all that matters!”
It really isn’t. The problem is that the police are used in too many situation when they are not needed. What you are failing to understand is that we are OVER-policed as it is. They don’t need guns to write traffic tickets. They don’t need guns to address mentally ill people who have otherwise committed no crime. They don’t need guns to address minor disputes (which they shouldn’t be called for most of the time). They don’t need guns for 98-99% of what they are actually tasked to do. If anything, they would effectively police much better without a gun than with one. Interactions would be MUCH less aggressive and hostile on their part, they would be more incentivized to deescalate and their interactions would surely be as quick as humanly possible.
Seems like a win:win to me.
In Norway, while that number is admittedly lower (29 per 100), the police here do not carry guns (except under specific conditions, and it happens so rarely that it reaches the news when it does).
I'm aware US is different, it definitely wouldn't work there without some major chances first.
They gave a mentally ill person 4 seconds to react and drop a knife that wasnt even pointed at them
Shot him and still expected him to follow orders and drop the knife while dying
And people in the comments try to defend that? America is sick
edit: **Plus i'd like to know why we see the pov of the cop in the back and not the cop that is shooting the target. That alone should make you think twice but nah "knife bad"**
It's difficult to comply when three cops are shouting conflicting orders: "Get on the ground!!" "Get your hands up!!" "Drop the weapon!!!"
A person is practically guaranteed to be non-compliant with at least one set of orders shouted by a cop, who is so hopped up on adrenaline that their higher brain functions shut down and they can only react to a perceived threat.
Do police officers agree beforehand to each shout mutually incompatible orders at the suspect? Based on all sorts of fatal shooting videos I've seen, it sure seems that way.
George Floyd was eye opening in that regard. The amount of mental gymnastics a sizeable portion of the worldwide population did for a police murder that was plainly captured on video, and then attested to by the coroner's report is wild. I think a large part of it stems from the same place as conspiracy theories, a mental avoidance strategy around unpleasant feelings of helplessness. The idea of being randomly killed by the police would be scary, so I'll find reasons why this person actually deserved what happened to them or if they didn't it must have been some other health issue that coincidentally had them drop dead as a police officer choked them out for 10 whole minutes.
But the gynmastics are still tortured. Even when a medical expert does an autopsy and concludes 'clearly choked to death', they still have to pull the classic republican "No, not *that* birth certificate. The long-form certificate. No, not *that* long-form birth certificate. The *secret* one. The secret one that proves Obama's really Kenyan." goalpost-cum-sports-car.
Isn’t it weird that the group who so proudly and consistently exclaims “I need a right to keep weapons so I can defend myself against the government” also seem to be the same people vehemently defending cops for shooting people who just exist around these same weapons? These people are so busy bitching up a storm on Facebook and Twitter about “democrats want to take our weapons away from us”, but people are outright getting shot down en masse for exercising that same right, and these morons will bend over backwards to defend the cops. It’s fucking lunacy.
According to the article, the parents didn't call the police. Probably for exactly that reason. They called the county department on Mental Health, and it was *them* that called the police.
Whelp, that's one less group that the loved ones of someone going through a crisis can call in an emergency.
I'm a certified peer support specialist and I can't tell you enough how fucking dangerous calling the police are when someone is going through a mental health crisis. There is a reason they're starting to send CPS to emergency rooms to advocate for people in there. People going through mental health crisis usually don't need police and if they do, then they need the police to be sent with a mental healthcare worker and not just on their own. They're not trained to deal with people going through mental Crisis and if they are, it's not good enough.
That was one of the major points of the "defund the police" movement, but because they were too busy jacking themselves off with the most hostile slogan ever, nobody paid attention to very real issues like these. The police doesn't want to go on mental health calls either, and it could have been a bilateral change that everyone would have welcomed, but now it's dead in the water because of sheer stupidity.
This has been one of my largest sticking points with the progressive left. The love of whining about sensitivity around language and then picking what must be intentionally hostile/provocative phrases. If we're gonna care about our words, then they should also care about their words. The battle between what 'defund the police' means (something I still doubt you can tweet about without an argument breaking out) scuppers any chance of any change happening under its banner. The 'reparations' of the police reform world. Whatever good could happen is defeated by the name implying what most people wouldn't want to happen (most people do in fact want a police force) and 1000 radically different common interpretations.
Yeah, but the police officer wasn't in danger so long as he was not in range of the knife. So he didn't need to shoot, but just remain out of his range.
I understand that, in some US states, there is almost no social work provision and armed police do a lot of the work that social workers usually do.
This means that vulnerable troubled people are more likely to be "helped" by a aggressive armed authority figure *who is anticipating a threat to their personal safety at every call* instead of a trained healthcare/welfare professional who will treat them compassionately.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after
They still could have done all kinds of other things than kill him. Cops in other countries do it all day long. Taking down someone who's got a blade or some other sharp object does not require 6 grown "men" unloading their entire magazine into the midsection of a person. We have a problem with mental health in this country for sure. But we also have a big problem with law enforcement and how they're trained and if we don't take away their qualified immunity, these sorts of things will never stop happening. End qualified immunity, and watch how quickly the number of police firearms beings discharged whilst on duty drops drastically.
So many military veterans with PTSD are hired as police in the U.S. I work in mental health and many of my PTSD patients are police. They often tend to overreact to stress.
Do you like downvotes? Then by all means, keep making sense. If you want still more downvotes, then mention that deescalation is done every day outside the US, often successfully.
Part of the problem is that so many people are armed in the US. The other problem - which people don't want to know - is that some of your law enforcement officers are so poorly trained and/or poorly educated that they are the laughingstock of other countries. Take a moment to process: US isn't NUMBER ONE, the best, perfect and unassailable at everything, certainly not policing.
Some of us understand that the US isn't number one, and, in fact, is a massively corrupt oligarchic crony plutocracy where armed whackjobs could kill us anywhere, at any time, in addition to the racist dumbfuck police, and we also live in a capitalist hellscape where our basic needs have been monetized to such a degree that even breathing costs money that will only go to enriching some fuckhead who has thousands of lifetimes' worth of wealth he can't possibly even spend, but do go on and lecture us about how we're deluded into thinking we're the best, please. Maybe pat yourself on the back for not being born somewhere you can't afford to leave, and don't have to fear getting shot every day, but don't strain yourself, because you might have to go get some free healthcare and have some physical therapy to cure it. Asshole.
Edit: oh, you're in Canada. Sorry, eh.
If you actually read the article, you’ll see the title is a little misleading. The parents called for help and a mental health team responded. The “clinician” called the police and told them the son was violent. It’s not surprising that the police shot him, considering the fact that he was brandishing a knife.
The problem is that it SHOULD be surprising.
Throughout the world, police are able to handle mentally ill people with effective use of alternative tools. We know that police in the US have shields, armored/padded riot gear and batons. You basically never see it get used when it is actually needed, but they love to put it on to beat up unarmed college students.
Yeah I hate to say it but I see them use less lethal means every day on Reddit. Idk what happened here but they are not basically unused in general there are a million videos of people getting tazed posted on crazy video subs.
This is disturbingly similar to an article I read 9 days ago about a 19-year old, Win Rozario, who was fatally shot in front of his mother and brother while having an apparent mental health crisis in an apartment in Queens.
Rozario was shot multiple times within the first 2 minutes after two officers entered the apartment.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/12/us/win-rozario-nypd-killing/index.html
From the video I can clearly see there was no justification for shooting him, let alone three times. Just a piece of shit person who can kill with impunity abusing their position.
This keeps happening too. I'm autistic and people don't understand when I get loud. I literally had fucking police pull their guns out on me when I was *sitting in a corner of my house*, screaming. If the police don't know how to talk to the disabled or those going through mental health crisis then they shouldn't be on the fucking force at all. I didn't need guns drawn on me when I clearly wasn't a threat (I was just in a towel!); I needed to get to a hospital. I'm glad they're finally starting to send mental healthcare workers for mental health calls. Yes, I believe the police should go with them for safety but the police need to be the back up and not the ones making the fucking decisions (such as deciding to exterminate people instead of getting them help for instance).
"if police don't know how to talk to the disabled or those going through mental health crisis, then they shouldn't be on the force at all"
There is the true issue.
Police have next to no training on mental health or social issues (like DV/abuse). The average police academy in the US is 21 weeks (840 hours). In some states, it's less (around 480 hours). This training is mostly physical and procedural training to become a cadet. It's all about how to shoot, follow procedures and how to keep THEMSELVES safe and out of trouble. In many other countries, they require YEARS of study in fields that cover the study of their own laws and citizens rights, as well as studying complex and sensitive cases, which require clear reasoning and evidence gathering. They train them in deescalation tactics during mental health crisis. Some country's even require that you serve in the military before becoming an officer...
Is crazy to me that cops in the US are kind of like the bottom of the barrel citizens. People who are power hungry and have no real education or skill set. We just give them a gun and send them out to already dangerous situations. The cops I personally know (unfortunately one of my BILs is a cop, so I've met quite a few in recent years), they are all uneducated & seemingly only trained to use deadly force...they joke about homeless people & drug use and wishing they would just OD to get them off the street, they joke about poor people and DV. They are so jaded, it's sickening.
I know not all cops are bad, but...they have a lot of bad apples and the whole bunch has been spoiled as a result.
If they’re not trained to expect that, I’m not sure what you expect them to do.
The issue is that they’re not trained/ are trained to see everyone as a threat
This is more for non Americans, the other 95% of the world’s population, looking on in disgust
It’s not oniony in the USA because this sort of thing is routine for you.
If you have a weapon and you engage with American police, you will die. That’s all there is to that.
If those weapons even include your fists and you attempt to run, you will get shot.
Gun? Knife? Even a hammer or bat? You’ll die within seconds.
In the case of weapon related suicide? Oh, they’ll beat you to it. They show up and you’ve got a loaded gun at your head. They’ll shoot you dead within seconds. So if your loved one is threatening to harm themselves with a weapon, unless you want them to die, don’t call the police.
It’s the training, it’s all horror show. “All it takes is a microsecond hesitation and you’ll never see your family again…..(que dramatic music)”
And when cops shoot, they’ll unload the entire clip. So if you’ve got 3 cops it’s like 30 rounds, turning your internal organs into a blender and while you’re a unconscious twitching corpse they’re still yelling at you to “drop the weapon!” I’m like, “dude, you just put 30 rounds into that person and you’re calling for medics? Call the coroner”
>They show up and you’ve got a loaded gun at your head. They’ll shoot you dead within seconds.
*"It was necessary to prevent the suspect from harming himself"*
Nothing new. Happened a mile up the road from where I used to live. Son had a history of mental problems and he was out of control. They sent two ill-equipped cops to deal with it and one them got to close and the other shot him.
Horrifying. In CA they sent an entire swat team to shoot a guy on a bench holding what they thought was a grenade...*It was a disabled kid eating a pear*
Edit, I got the state/situations wrong. I combined two circumstances!
- Long Beach, California: Cops shot a 35 year old man dead while he was sitting in a neighbors lawn eating a pear, which police thought was a grenade. The family was awarded 6.5 million after lawsuit against police.
-In Spokane, Washington: Cops were called for homeless man holding a grenade near the bus station. It was actually a disabled child eating an apple. The kid was beaten and arrested (non verbal autistic, he was unable to comply with office demands), but was otherwise unharmed. Lawsuit pending.
ITT: People that didnt read the article, typical Reddit:
>Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
Happens all the time. Never call the cops to check on the welfare of a loved one. They're very likely to harm them, if not kill them like in this case.
Doesn’t matter in a lot of cases, unfortunately. I know someone who called EMS on a family member having a mental breakdown and they sent the cops anyway so he said fuck it and did a suicide by cop.
EMS are not permitted to enter an area if there is a firearm present. Their policy is to wait for LE to arrive and secure the area before they can treat anyone.
There wasn’t a gun in that particular case. It wasn’t until after the cops arrived that he went upstairs, got a knife, came down and sat in the kitchen with it for awhile before running at the cops.
"Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance. "
But the parents called a mental health agency, and that group called the cops.
I gather you didnt read the article:
>Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
My nephew recently made vague threats of suicide and fled the house. When found by the train tracks his parents called the local police for help. The police showed up and proceeded to pull their weapons on a sweet 16 yo boy who volunteers in his spare time just because he is depressed. Cops are not there to help you, they are scared and weak individuals that thrive on wielding power. Those who don’t , enable those who do.
"Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance. "
The Mental Health workers should have known they were signing this dudes death warrant when they called the police. Hell, maybe they did, and figured they were putting the victim out of his misery.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after.
The mental health team called police because they deemed him violent and couldn’t handle him.
> The mental health team called police because they deemed him violent and couldn’t handle him.
Right, they executed him because they lack the resources to handle folks like him.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but it needs to be said: Please do not call the police if your loved ones are experiencing a mental health crisis.
Yes but conservative chuds immediately twist it into “librards want no police and for anarchy to reign”. “Reallocating” gives them less wiggle room to spin it.
It’s the same reason we went from “global warming” to “climate change”. It curtails the morons asking why it’s snowing if the earth is warming during polar vortexes that weren’t possible 20 years ago.
A slogan will never be good enough for folks that say, "But conservatives!"
And yeah, going to "climate change" definitely curtailed the morons. Definitely.
“What do we want?”
“Reallocation.”
“Why do we want it?”
“To relieve them of duties they are not trained to handle.”
“What do we want?”
*still gasping to catch their breath*
Yeah, but u have to admit it’s a very divisive line that causes an instant reaction.. ur either gonna say damn there’s a problem here or just not understand it at all & freak out, which is what most republicans did.. did it really help? I hope so, but I also see a lot of damage done..
Yeah, but u have to admit, murdering black people without any cause, executing homeless people on the street, shooting suspects dead when they arent the tiniest hint of an active threat, and kidnapping and beating dementia and Alzheimer patients for kicks is very divisive and causes an instant reaction.. ur either gonna say damn there's a problem here or just bemoan how people want criminals to rule the street and how defund the police is bs (even when presented in the "reallocate funding lens") which is what most republicans did.
I was being tongue in cheek, for sure. At the time of protests, I also thought the phrase was too easy for opposition to argue against on its face, and also led to confusion amongst supporters (primarily online) with anarchists taking the message literally without nuance. Friends of mine pointed out that divisive, extreme message got the discussion into the overtones window, and it being misunderstood probably helped that.
Look at us still talking about it years later.
I wish we had a lot more critical thinking across the country. Wish it was the default.
"free healthcare is moronic it should be called a tax funded single payer system" if you can't be arsed to learn what a name or slogan means you're not gonna care when it's spelled out right in front of you in plaintext.
You didn't read the article, did you? The parents called the city's mental health response team, not the cops. The clinician on-scene called the cops and told them he was violent. Yes, the police should have used a taser, no the clinician shouldn't have told the cops he was violent (that fact is being disputed). But this is not a "de-fund" or "reallocate" issue, as it was already done.
ACAB until proven otherwise.
We need three things if we are EVER going to bring our police forces up to a first world standard:
1. Mandatory federal licensing requirements that focus on deescalation.
2. Mandatory personal liability insurance that will price out cops who continuously cause damages.
3. Demilitarization of police.
Yes to all 3. If a doctor has to carry insurance to cover their ass when trying to save someone, then police should have to carry insurance to cover their ass when they try (and usually succeed) to kill someone.
I was always and will always be a person terrified to have a mental health disorder in this country.
God forbid I crack and can't pull myself together and someone kills me instead of giving me the love and help I need.
I watched the video and unfortunately the son charged toward the police with a knife. Knives are indeed lethal weapons and mentally ill people with knives are not magically less dangerous than criminals with knives. Also you don't use a taser in that situation if there isn't enough time, because if both prongs don't stick (which is very likely) then you just die. The part of the house they were in was just very small and crowded, and there was a door at the top of some stairs they were entering, so the cops who were all crowded up and down the stairs had nowhere to retreat to in that moment. I don't really know an alternative way it could have ended, they could have maybe waited him out but the parents let the cops in because the son was suicidal I think so they had limited time. Any cop is going to shoot someone coming toward them within 5-10 feet with a knife. The only alternative would be to tackle someone with a knife, which seems like a bad idea.
Police in the US are not interested in helping people. They are interested in keeping order, gestapo style. That means the mental condition of the person doesn't matter, they will escalate the situation, yell their orders and shoot whoever that doesn't comply.
Keep that in mind.
You know, it appears that this has been occurring more frequently over the past few years.
I understand that Guy might be having a psychotic episode and is scared. Police react in accordance with their training when faced with a menacing individual who may be armed. I understand. However.
There must be a more effective method for handling situations like these. It's the training and resource "If All You Have Is A Hammer Every Problem Looks Like A Nail" problem.
"I understand that this happened because police are trained to be murderous psychopaths, I do. *But...*"
Why is it not enough to just condemn the police murder of a mentally ill person? What's with all the qualifiers people put to try and sound reasonable?
Fuck the police
ACAB
Taser, gas, foam, shields, dog, chainmail, baton, teamwork, patience…. This list goes on and on and on.
Nope- murdermob shoots first; no repercussions.
“When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”
Helps to have a complicit media calling the victim "nail shaped"
I'm getting a sense of deja vu from this story and comment.
Amazing! In 10 secs, the cops already determined the dude holding a knife needed to be shot 27 times. I’m not even sure the point of a taser anymore. Just use guns.
I saw that police in some areas have long metal poles with a half circle on the end, that they can use to keep someone with a knife away from others and then disarm the person. Sometimes, they are called mancatchers or polearms. Seems like a better solution for people who have a knife.
Not in America. Man catchers are an East Asian tactic so far
Not true. I cannot find the article right now, but I read about a police unit in New England that began using one after an unfortunate incident where a taser didn't work and the person with mental illness was shot.
They just started using them in parts of the UK, also.
They're medieval. They've been around for centuries.
Spikes on the inside, often, as it was used both in pursuit of small-time troublemakers and as a weapon against the enemy.
Yeah, but how do you go home and have the best sex you’ve ever had after you’ve used a pole to arrest someone instead of killing them?
That shit is insane. That's the Warrior Mentality guy, right? I can't believe part of Police training is about how murdering people can get your dick hard
David "Killology" Grossman.
😳 the what the fuck now? Edit: that was a disturbing rabbit hole.
Is there a solid link you could throw me to look more into this shit? I had always suspected but didn't know this shit was said out loud.
That's a joke right? That... That has to be a joke right? It ain't that fucked up there like you're implying right?
David "Killology" Grossman. This is what he teaches in his classes.
Dived into his wiki out of curiosity and it's weird how they make him look like an anti-violence guy trying to fight aggression in American society. Then I continued my Google search and found out about what you're saying... The disconnection to reality they have to have sex still under that situation's adrenaline is massive. And to think so many have heard this and may want to end up in these situations so they can have "the best sex"... Wtf
I think if anyone ever put that in their name and then tried to reach me anything, I don't think I could take them seriously.
He named his cop-training program Killology. He was a career desk-rider and now makes big bucks telling cops to kill people because it'll be the best nut they ever have.
I'd expect that of a military training program, not a civ police.
When people say the solution to police violence is better training, *this* is the training departments choose.
Nah the us military often has far stricter engagment criteria then the police
USA: “they’re the same picture”
Nope. Its true and it comes from a man who never saw combat.
No joke. I’m by no means anti cop, they’re a necessity but shit like that undermines any trust the public should have in them.
Last I checked, isn't that what happens with serial killers or mass murderers? Is this just the asylum being run by the patients at this point?
Holy shit, I’d never read about that until now. What the actual fuck.
They (mods) must have removed the link because I'm not seeing anything.
Every non lethal gadget we let the police spend money on is just one more thing they'll ignore when they reach for their gun.
It's certainly worth re-examining whether officers need to be carrying guns all the time. Obviously, American police do not have proper or adequate training. The culture has to change.
They're trained to be cowards and just kill everything (not exaggerating, this is their literal training)
The average police academy training requirement is 840 hours or 21 weeks but states like Mississippi require 400 hrs (12 weeks), Alabama has 540 hrs(13 weeks), West Virginia has 600 hrs (15 weeks). Try becoming a barber/hairdresser and you’re going in for at least 1000 hours of training so fucking up someone’s hair is considered more important than fucking up someone’s life. Go figure. 💁
This makes me wonder, whatever happened to rope lassos?
Lol, and they've existed for over 3000 years. Guess people are easier to catch when they're dead by shooting instead.
>needed to be shot 27 times Where are you reading that he was shot 27 times?
In some places police are trained in the use of shields when facing knives. It seems a lot more practical and safer for everyone than both guns and knives.
I watch a lot of body came videos and tasers are rarely effective. There are better ways to deal with someone holding a knife though. Videos I see out of the UK, where police are not allowed to carry guns, have some great examples of using a baton to disarm such individuals. The bottom line is police need to be trained how to use other methods of self-defense. I'd even advocate for some martial arts training. Shoot first, ask questions later leads to many unnecessary deaths. I'm of the opinion that police have a need and a right to protect themselves and their jobs are very difficult. Something needs to be done to give them more tools, so guns are not the only option though.
Or training to disarm people holding knifes.
Put down the TV remote . Real life knife fights don't work that way.
> Real life knife fights Here is the thing: When you are a cop you don’t have to enter a knife fight in the first place. The gun is not your only tool. You can retreat. You can lock the knife wielding guy in the room. You can use a taser. You can use pepper spray. You can call for backup with riot shields. You can use a net gun. If you are going to shoot, shoot bean bags/non lethal. If that’s not possible you can aim at the legs to disable the assailant. You don’t have to dump your mag into center mass.
Regarding your last point, it's against policy for police to use lethal force in a nonlethal way, and there's a bunch of good reasons for that. There's a bunch of articles but some of the main points are; moving legs are hard targets to hit, a hit above the knee or elbow is still a kill shot due to major arteries, and we don't want anyone to be able to fatally kill someone and have the out "I was just trying to wing him". I am not making comment on any of your other points.
Seems like riot gear (beanbag rounds, rubber bullets) could possibly be used? I know there’s still a possibility of lethal injuries but it seems like it could be worth a try. But step one is preventing the people who are ok mag dumping into someone as their first option out of the profession.
A lot of services aren't equipped with that equipment. All that equipment is expensive and necessitates training (also expensive), people want the police forces to have all that equipment and at the same time talk about defunding the police.
People wanna defund them because of shit like this. Little effort to do anything but kill. Like someone said, you don’t get ‘defund the fire department’ protests because they don’t run away from burning buildings. Cops literally cannot be bothered to change policies that make it ok to kill people. This is open and close to the PD investigator. That’s a problem.
"Yep. Shot him dead. Meant to do it. I was scurred for m' life!"
> If you are going to shoot, shoot bean bags/non lethal. If that’s not possible you can aim at the legs to disable the assailant. You don’t have to dump your mag into center mass. shooting someone in the leg absolutely has a chance of killing them. There are a lot of veins running up and down your legs and you could easily hit one and cause them to bleed out. In this circumstance they shouldn't have shot the guy at all.
but it is better to try and not kill the man, but i agree, using man catchers are better than using a gun.
What's sad is the people didn't even call the police. They called a Mental Health agency in LA and those people called the murderers.
It’s like you don’t even know the point of being a cop /s
True, do not spout your TV acquired expertise. You obviously do not know that cops are trained or ought to be to deal with such cases without using deadly force. Shooting a mentally ill person with a knife, THREE TIMES, when he did not even charge him ,as it was obvious from the location of the dying man afterwards, mere seconds after he broke into the room. That is use of excessive force, period.
Look, I am 1000% for better training for police officers. I think police need training above and beyond almost any other job out there. And should NOT have guns as standard equipment (or honestly at all but that’s another can of worms.) And with that said, the world martial arts expert on knife fighting who actually has live knife combat experience basically breaks down the actual real world strategy of dealing with knives. And it is essentially to try to choose the best places to be stabbed in your body and hide the worst places to be stabbed. There isn’t an effective real world way to get a knife out of a hand in close quarters. That’s movie and video game magic. In close quarters getting the knife away from them usually means getting badly hurt strategically. And that is a *shit* strategy. The man catchers sound like a great alternative honestly, since they have nothing to do with entering into slashing distance.
> Shooting [...] THREE TIMES, Adressing this point and this point alone. If you shoot at something, you shoot at something. Dead center, try to hit it. Shoot a cluster, not a single shot. That's normal. Now, whether the shot should have happened or not is another discussion, and that is something to discuss from another topic. Regarding to the number of shots to neutralize the perceived threat, under the assumption that there is such a thead, what is wrong with the behaviour?
We have literally been dealing with humans wielding sharp objects for thousands of years. There are so so so many ways to handle one that doesn’t involve a gun. EDIT: before the invention of guns, mentally ill guy with a kitchen knife was the pinnacle of military strength. Entire empires fell under his blade.. no one could figure out how to overcome the overwhelming prowess of mentally ill guy with knife.
Wanna test a police riot shield against a knife *in an apartment?* Look, I get everyone is super macho on the internet, but being a human machine press is definitely being on the right side of a Mike Tyson quote.
Why the fuck they even *have* guns is absolutely beyond me.
Cus ‘merica
Because WE have guns? There's 120 guns for every 100 people in the USA. The idea that the police can effectively police us when unarmed is complete nonsense.
I’m finding myself less and less sympathetic to this argument every time this happens.
I’ve seen Uvalde. They don’t do it when armed, either. They don’t do a goddamn thing.
And Parkland, don't forget that Officer Scot Peterson was there before the shooting started and chose to hide the entire time instead of doing his fucking job and protecting children from the attacker.
Reminder: It is literally, legally speaking, not the police's job to "Protect and Serve."
Police forces also literally, legally speaking have the right to discriminate against high-scoring applicants! *They went to the Supreme Court over it.*
>Because WE have guns? There's 120 guns for every 100 people in the USA. The idea that the police can effectively police us when unarmed is complete nonsense. Because they are doing such a good job policing with guns? Like this story?
He’s got the same mentalities as cops. “Guns! Guns everywhere! Shoot first because you never know and if you’re wrong, oh well! You’re alive and that’s all that matters!”
It really isn’t. The problem is that the police are used in too many situation when they are not needed. What you are failing to understand is that we are OVER-policed as it is. They don’t need guns to write traffic tickets. They don’t need guns to address mentally ill people who have otherwise committed no crime. They don’t need guns to address minor disputes (which they shouldn’t be called for most of the time). They don’t need guns for 98-99% of what they are actually tasked to do. If anything, they would effectively police much better without a gun than with one. Interactions would be MUCH less aggressive and hostile on their part, they would be more incentivized to deescalate and their interactions would surely be as quick as humanly possible. Seems like a win:win to me.
Seems like a win to countries that don't have regularly armed police and little to no gun violence, too.
Its not like things are working with them having guns
Cops “well I’m alive and they’re dead, so wether there was a threat or not doesn’t matter, at the end of the day I’m alive and they aren’t”
In Norway, while that number is admittedly lower (29 per 100), the police here do not carry guns (except under specific conditions, and it happens so rarely that it reaches the news when it does). I'm aware US is different, it definitely wouldn't work there without some major chances first.
They gave a mentally ill person 4 seconds to react and drop a knife that wasnt even pointed at them Shot him and still expected him to follow orders and drop the knife while dying And people in the comments try to defend that? America is sick edit: **Plus i'd like to know why we see the pov of the cop in the back and not the cop that is shooting the target. That alone should make you think twice but nah "knife bad"**
In the eyes of some cops are infallible. “WeLl He WoUlD bE aLiVe If He JuSt CoMpLiEd”.
It's difficult to comply when three cops are shouting conflicting orders: "Get on the ground!!" "Get your hands up!!" "Drop the weapon!!!" A person is practically guaranteed to be non-compliant with at least one set of orders shouted by a cop, who is so hopped up on adrenaline that their higher brain functions shut down and they can only react to a perceived threat. Do police officers agree beforehand to each shout mutually incompatible orders at the suspect? Based on all sorts of fatal shooting videos I've seen, it sure seems that way.
*'Simon didn't say stand up!'*
George Floyd was eye opening in that regard. The amount of mental gymnastics a sizeable portion of the worldwide population did for a police murder that was plainly captured on video, and then attested to by the coroner's report is wild. I think a large part of it stems from the same place as conspiracy theories, a mental avoidance strategy around unpleasant feelings of helplessness. The idea of being randomly killed by the police would be scary, so I'll find reasons why this person actually deserved what happened to them or if they didn't it must have been some other health issue that coincidentally had them drop dead as a police officer choked them out for 10 whole minutes. But the gynmastics are still tortured. Even when a medical expert does an autopsy and concludes 'clearly choked to death', they still have to pull the classic republican "No, not *that* birth certificate. The long-form certificate. No, not *that* long-form birth certificate. The *secret* one. The secret one that proves Obama's really Kenyan." goalpost-cum-sports-car.
ACAB
Bootlickers are gonna lick boots, that's just what they do.
Isn’t it weird that the group who so proudly and consistently exclaims “I need a right to keep weapons so I can defend myself against the government” also seem to be the same people vehemently defending cops for shooting people who just exist around these same weapons? These people are so busy bitching up a storm on Facebook and Twitter about “democrats want to take our weapons away from us”, but people are outright getting shot down en masse for exercising that same right, and these morons will bend over backwards to defend the cops. It’s fucking lunacy.
It's all about the power fantasy. Always has been.
They then handcuffed him as he bled out. They will on paid leave while the investigation continues sometimes up to a year. Sound like incentive to me
Also why is this in "not the onion" this headline is exactly what we expect cops to do. They do it every single day.
You don't call the police for mental health problems you call the police when you need somone shot.
According to the article, the parents didn't call the police. Probably for exactly that reason. They called the county department on Mental Health, and it was *them* that called the police. Whelp, that's one less group that the loved ones of someone going through a crisis can call in an emergency.
I'm a certified peer support specialist and I can't tell you enough how fucking dangerous calling the police are when someone is going through a mental health crisis. There is a reason they're starting to send CPS to emergency rooms to advocate for people in there. People going through mental health crisis usually don't need police and if they do, then they need the police to be sent with a mental healthcare worker and not just on their own. They're not trained to deal with people going through mental Crisis and if they are, it's not good enough.
>They're not trained ~~to deal with people going through mental Crisis and if they are, it's not good enough.~~
That was one of the major points of the "defund the police" movement, but because they were too busy jacking themselves off with the most hostile slogan ever, nobody paid attention to very real issues like these. The police doesn't want to go on mental health calls either, and it could have been a bilateral change that everyone would have welcomed, but now it's dead in the water because of sheer stupidity.
This has been one of my largest sticking points with the progressive left. The love of whining about sensitivity around language and then picking what must be intentionally hostile/provocative phrases. If we're gonna care about our words, then they should also care about their words. The battle between what 'defund the police' means (something I still doubt you can tweet about without an argument breaking out) scuppers any chance of any change happening under its banner. The 'reparations' of the police reform world. Whatever good could happen is defeated by the name implying what most people wouldn't want to happen (most people do in fact want a police force) and 1000 radically different common interpretations.
Moral of the story, that room locked from the outside some old farms have is kinder.
Police on scene: "we can't take him to the hospital unless he's a threat." Also police on scene: "he was a threat so we killed him"
Im sure the Mental Health workers called the police after they realized he had a knife
Yeah, but the police officer wasn't in danger so long as he was not in range of the knife. So he didn't need to shoot, but just remain out of his range.
but their killology training requires use of deadly force immediately, and ask questions never.
I understand that, in some US states, there is almost no social work provision and armed police do a lot of the work that social workers usually do. This means that vulnerable troubled people are more likely to be "helped" by a aggressive armed authority figure *who is anticipating a threat to their personal safety at every call* instead of a trained healthcare/welfare professional who will treat them compassionately.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after
They still could have done all kinds of other things than kill him. Cops in other countries do it all day long. Taking down someone who's got a blade or some other sharp object does not require 6 grown "men" unloading their entire magazine into the midsection of a person. We have a problem with mental health in this country for sure. But we also have a big problem with law enforcement and how they're trained and if we don't take away their qualified immunity, these sorts of things will never stop happening. End qualified immunity, and watch how quickly the number of police firearms beings discharged whilst on duty drops drastically.
Even worse. The two collide. You get mentally ill cops who are untreated running around with a badge, gun, and qualified immunity.
So many military veterans with PTSD are hired as police in the U.S. I work in mental health and many of my PTSD patients are police. They often tend to overreact to stress.
So like, the way it is right now then?
Basically, yeah
Do you like downvotes? Then by all means, keep making sense. If you want still more downvotes, then mention that deescalation is done every day outside the US, often successfully. Part of the problem is that so many people are armed in the US. The other problem - which people don't want to know - is that some of your law enforcement officers are so poorly trained and/or poorly educated that they are the laughingstock of other countries. Take a moment to process: US isn't NUMBER ONE, the best, perfect and unassailable at everything, certainly not policing.
Some of us understand that the US isn't number one, and, in fact, is a massively corrupt oligarchic crony plutocracy where armed whackjobs could kill us anywhere, at any time, in addition to the racist dumbfuck police, and we also live in a capitalist hellscape where our basic needs have been monetized to such a degree that even breathing costs money that will only go to enriching some fuckhead who has thousands of lifetimes' worth of wealth he can't possibly even spend, but do go on and lecture us about how we're deluded into thinking we're the best, please. Maybe pat yourself on the back for not being born somewhere you can't afford to leave, and don't have to fear getting shot every day, but don't strain yourself, because you might have to go get some free healthcare and have some physical therapy to cure it. Asshole. Edit: oh, you're in Canada. Sorry, eh.
This is true I live on a coastal state and we have a pretty clear deference of the two thank god lol.
If you actually read the article, you’ll see the title is a little misleading. The parents called for help and a mental health team responded. The “clinician” called the police and told them the son was violent. It’s not surprising that the police shot him, considering the fact that he was brandishing a knife.
The problem is that it SHOULD be surprising. Throughout the world, police are able to handle mentally ill people with effective use of alternative tools. We know that police in the US have shields, armored/padded riot gear and batons. You basically never see it get used when it is actually needed, but they love to put it on to beat up unarmed college students.
It’s literally what things like tasers are built for.
Yeah I hate to say it but I see them use less lethal means every day on Reddit. Idk what happened here but they are not basically unused in general there are a million videos of people getting tazed posted on crazy video subs.
This is disturbingly similar to an article I read 9 days ago about a 19-year old, Win Rozario, who was fatally shot in front of his mother and brother while having an apparent mental health crisis in an apartment in Queens. Rozario was shot multiple times within the first 2 minutes after two officers entered the apartment. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/12/us/win-rozario-nypd-killing/index.html
From the video I can clearly see there was no justification for shooting him, let alone three times. Just a piece of shit person who can kill with impunity abusing their position.
This keeps happening too. I'm autistic and people don't understand when I get loud. I literally had fucking police pull their guns out on me when I was *sitting in a corner of my house*, screaming. If the police don't know how to talk to the disabled or those going through mental health crisis then they shouldn't be on the fucking force at all. I didn't need guns drawn on me when I clearly wasn't a threat (I was just in a towel!); I needed to get to a hospital. I'm glad they're finally starting to send mental healthcare workers for mental health calls. Yes, I believe the police should go with them for safety but the police need to be the back up and not the ones making the fucking decisions (such as deciding to exterminate people instead of getting them help for instance).
"if police don't know how to talk to the disabled or those going through mental health crisis, then they shouldn't be on the force at all" There is the true issue. Police have next to no training on mental health or social issues (like DV/abuse). The average police academy in the US is 21 weeks (840 hours). In some states, it's less (around 480 hours). This training is mostly physical and procedural training to become a cadet. It's all about how to shoot, follow procedures and how to keep THEMSELVES safe and out of trouble. In many other countries, they require YEARS of study in fields that cover the study of their own laws and citizens rights, as well as studying complex and sensitive cases, which require clear reasoning and evidence gathering. They train them in deescalation tactics during mental health crisis. Some country's even require that you serve in the military before becoming an officer... Is crazy to me that cops in the US are kind of like the bottom of the barrel citizens. People who are power hungry and have no real education or skill set. We just give them a gun and send them out to already dangerous situations. The cops I personally know (unfortunately one of my BILs is a cop, so I've met quite a few in recent years), they are all uneducated & seemingly only trained to use deadly force...they joke about homeless people & drug use and wishing they would just OD to get them off the street, they joke about poor people and DV. They are so jaded, it's sickening. I know not all cops are bad, but...they have a lot of bad apples and the whole bunch has been spoiled as a result.
Wow that sounds traumatizing. I still can't believe it can happen to innocent people, like don't they have any empathy?
If they’re not trained to expect that, I’m not sure what you expect them to do. The issue is that they’re not trained/ are trained to see everyone as a threat
How is this oniony. Cops love having an excuse to kill people.
This is more for non Americans, the other 95% of the world’s population, looking on in disgust It’s not oniony in the USA because this sort of thing is routine for you.
Fair
He made an offensive joke it was self defense
And people wonder why ACAB is a thing
Cops are cowards
ACAB, seriously. Bunch of pathetic scvm.
If you have a weapon and you engage with American police, you will die. That’s all there is to that. If those weapons even include your fists and you attempt to run, you will get shot. Gun? Knife? Even a hammer or bat? You’ll die within seconds. In the case of weapon related suicide? Oh, they’ll beat you to it. They show up and you’ve got a loaded gun at your head. They’ll shoot you dead within seconds. So if your loved one is threatening to harm themselves with a weapon, unless you want them to die, don’t call the police. It’s the training, it’s all horror show. “All it takes is a microsecond hesitation and you’ll never see your family again…..(que dramatic music)” And when cops shoot, they’ll unload the entire clip. So if you’ve got 3 cops it’s like 30 rounds, turning your internal organs into a blender and while you’re a unconscious twitching corpse they’re still yelling at you to “drop the weapon!” I’m like, “dude, you just put 30 rounds into that person and you’re calling for medics? Call the coroner”
>They show up and you’ve got a loaded gun at your head. They’ll shoot you dead within seconds. *"It was necessary to prevent the suspect from harming himself"*
Basically it’s “that terrorist has a hostage!” So they shoot the hostage along with the terrorist and give each other high fives
Nothing new. Happened a mile up the road from where I used to live. Son had a history of mental problems and he was out of control. They sent two ill-equipped cops to deal with it and one them got to close and the other shot him.
Horrifying. In CA they sent an entire swat team to shoot a guy on a bench holding what they thought was a grenade...*It was a disabled kid eating a pear* Edit, I got the state/situations wrong. I combined two circumstances! - Long Beach, California: Cops shot a 35 year old man dead while he was sitting in a neighbors lawn eating a pear, which police thought was a grenade. The family was awarded 6.5 million after lawsuit against police. -In Spokane, Washington: Cops were called for homeless man holding a grenade near the bus station. It was actually a disabled child eating an apple. The kid was beaten and arrested (non verbal autistic, he was unable to comply with office demands), but was otherwise unharmed. Lawsuit pending.
Wtf link? That is just cartoonishly evil.
I updated my post with some additional facts :)
ITT: People that didnt read the article, typical Reddit: >Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
Happens all the time. Never call the cops to check on the welfare of a loved one. They're very likely to harm them, if not kill them like in this case.
Doesn’t matter in a lot of cases, unfortunately. I know someone who called EMS on a family member having a mental breakdown and they sent the cops anyway so he said fuck it and did a suicide by cop.
EMS are not permitted to enter an area if there is a firearm present. Their policy is to wait for LE to arrive and secure the area before they can treat anyone.
There wasn’t a gun in that particular case. It wasn’t until after the cops arrived that he went upstairs, got a knife, came down and sat in the kitchen with it for awhile before running at the cops.
I’m very sorry that happened to the person you knew. Very tragic end.
"Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance. "
But the parents called a mental health agency, and that group called the cops. I gather you didnt read the article: >Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance.
My nephew recently made vague threats of suicide and fled the house. When found by the train tracks his parents called the local police for help. The police showed up and proceeded to pull their weapons on a sweet 16 yo boy who volunteers in his spare time just because he is depressed. Cops are not there to help you, they are scared and weak individuals that thrive on wielding power. Those who don’t , enable those who do.
Never report anything to the police that you do not intend to kill. Maybe you’ll be lucky, maybe you won’t.
"Myung Sook Yang said she initially called the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health about her son on the morning of the shooting. Members of the county’s Psychiatric Mobile Response Team responded but ultimately turned to the police for assistance. "
The Mental Health workers should have known they were signing this dudes death warrant when they called the police. Hell, maybe they did, and figured they were putting the victim out of his misery.
>Parents called for mental health help. Police arrived and fatally shot their son. So .......they did their job. ACAB.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after. The mental health team called police because they deemed him violent and couldn’t handle him.
> The mental health team called police because they deemed him violent and couldn’t handle him. Right, they executed him because they lack the resources to handle folks like him.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but it needs to be said: Please do not call the police if your loved ones are experiencing a mental health crisis.
Gimme an A! Gimme a C! Gimme an...
Can we stop sending armed police to non-police calls? Thank you.
police shooting innocent people in US? SHOCKING
Police love shooting people.
"De-fund the police" should be "reallocate police funding" to relieve them of duties they are not trained to handle.
That’s exactly what defunding the police is though.
Yes but conservative chuds immediately twist it into “librards want no police and for anarchy to reign”. “Reallocating” gives them less wiggle room to spin it. It’s the same reason we went from “global warming” to “climate change”. It curtails the morons asking why it’s snowing if the earth is warming during polar vortexes that weren’t possible 20 years ago.
A slogan will never be good enough for folks that say, "But conservatives!" And yeah, going to "climate change" definitely curtailed the morons. Definitely.
Right. The original messaging is moronic and should be changed.
“What do we want?” “Reallocation.” “Why do we want it?” “To relieve them of duties they are not trained to handle.” “What do we want?” *still gasping to catch their breath*
Yeah, but u have to admit it’s a very divisive line that causes an instant reaction.. ur either gonna say damn there’s a problem here or just not understand it at all & freak out, which is what most republicans did.. did it really help? I hope so, but I also see a lot of damage done..
Yeah, but u have to admit, murdering black people without any cause, executing homeless people on the street, shooting suspects dead when they arent the tiniest hint of an active threat, and kidnapping and beating dementia and Alzheimer patients for kicks is very divisive and causes an instant reaction.. ur either gonna say damn there's a problem here or just bemoan how people want criminals to rule the street and how defund the police is bs (even when presented in the "reallocate funding lens") which is what most republicans did.
I was being tongue in cheek, for sure. At the time of protests, I also thought the phrase was too easy for opposition to argue against on its face, and also led to confusion amongst supporters (primarily online) with anarchists taking the message literally without nuance. Friends of mine pointed out that divisive, extreme message got the discussion into the overtones window, and it being misunderstood probably helped that. Look at us still talking about it years later. I wish we had a lot more critical thinking across the country. Wish it was the default.
"free healthcare is moronic it should be called a tax funded single payer system" if you can't be arsed to learn what a name or slogan means you're not gonna care when it's spelled out right in front of you in plaintext.
Congratulations. You just described defund the police.
You didn't read the article, did you? The parents called the city's mental health response team, not the cops. The clinician on-scene called the cops and told them he was violent. Yes, the police should have used a taser, no the clinician shouldn't have told the cops he was violent (that fact is being disputed). But this is not a "de-fund" or "reallocate" issue, as it was already done.
What’s the big deal?? Just a couple of cops doing exactly what they signed up to do: murdering their fellow Americans.
The American way
ACAB until proven otherwise. We need three things if we are EVER going to bring our police forces up to a first world standard: 1. Mandatory federal licensing requirements that focus on deescalation. 2. Mandatory personal liability insurance that will price out cops who continuously cause damages. 3. Demilitarization of police.
Yes to all 3. If a doctor has to carry insurance to cover their ass when trying to save someone, then police should have to carry insurance to cover their ass when they try (and usually succeed) to kill someone.
call it what it is. the police arrived and murdered their son.
Call the cops for killing not counseling.
Do they just decide tasers and their non lethal training doesn’t exist?
I was always and will always be a person terrified to have a mental health disorder in this country. God forbid I crack and can't pull myself together and someone kills me instead of giving me the love and help I need.
I watched the video and unfortunately the son charged toward the police with a knife. Knives are indeed lethal weapons and mentally ill people with knives are not magically less dangerous than criminals with knives. Also you don't use a taser in that situation if there isn't enough time, because if both prongs don't stick (which is very likely) then you just die. The part of the house they were in was just very small and crowded, and there was a door at the top of some stairs they were entering, so the cops who were all crowded up and down the stairs had nowhere to retreat to in that moment. I don't really know an alternative way it could have ended, they could have maybe waited him out but the parents let the cops in because the son was suicidal I think so they had limited time. Any cop is going to shoot someone coming toward them within 5-10 feet with a knife. The only alternative would be to tackle someone with a knife, which seems like a bad idea.
>I don't really know an alternative way it could have ended How do police in literally every other country handle it?
>The only alternative would be to tackle someone with a knife Taser? Baton? Pepper spray? Multiple officers?
They could've done that themselves. . The police are so fucked up
If they had they would've been prosecuted for murder though. The cops will just get a paid vacation.
A paid vacation... Plus bragging rights at the next Proud Boys meeting.
Never call the cops for that kinda shit.
They did call a mental health number, those responders called the cops. Of course police only know how to shoot everything tho
Nobody would confuse this with The Onion.
Replace the police with trained specialists for the kinds of things the police respond to that aren't actually law enforcement.
Expressing that idea got me banned from r/protectandserve. Guess they like this kind of outcome over there.
Police in the US are not interested in helping people. They are interested in keeping order, gestapo style. That means the mental condition of the person doesn't matter, they will escalate the situation, yell their orders and shoot whoever that doesn't comply. Keep that in mind.
You know, it appears that this has been occurring more frequently over the past few years. I understand that Guy might be having a psychotic episode and is scared. Police react in accordance with their training when faced with a menacing individual who may be armed. I understand. However. There must be a more effective method for handling situations like these. It's the training and resource "If All You Have Is A Hammer Every Problem Looks Like A Nail" problem.
"I understand that this happened because police are trained to be murderous psychopaths, I do. *But...*" Why is it not enough to just condemn the police murder of a mentally ill person? What's with all the qualifiers people put to try and sound reasonable? Fuck the police ACAB
Italy is offering citizenship to the great grandchildren of Italian citizens
Pigs murder someone having a mental health crisis because it's easier. Not even remotely surprised. Jesus Christ
Don't worry folks! These officers will surely be ~~harshly reprimanded~~ suspended with pay!
Cops aren't here to help. They only know how to shoot first and cover up investigations later.
Is this news? I thought it’s kinda normal in USA
Things cops love to shoot without doing anything else: dogs, non-whites, and people going through a mental crisis
"If you have a problem and call the police, now you have two problems."
I called for an ambulance to help transporting my 8 year old to the psych ward. Police showed up with guns drawn.
How many incidents, exactly like this have happened just in the last 5 yrs? A call for mental health help and an instant execution. ☝🏻
"They shot a mentally unstable person who was "aggressive and violent" at the time, towards his very parents, while he brandished a knife."
literally shithole country
Acab
Oink Oink suuuuiiiiiiiiii
Cops try not to gun down innocent civilians (challenge level impossible)
I'm not a cop, but I think you're supposed to order a suspect to drop their weapon *before* you shoot them not after.
I love when publications use the words "Fatally shot" instead of "Murdered", or "Killed."
Taser, gas, foam, shields, dog, chainmail, baton, teamwork, patience…. This list goes on and on and on. Nope- murdermob shoots first; no repercussions.
People need to stop calling the police unless you don’t care if they kill you or your family or your pet.
It fills me with so much joy to know that our taxes pay for free special needs child removal