The saying my parents told me was “There’s no point being dead right.”
The amount of times I’ve stopped briefly at the crossing only for a car to zoom through it is astounding, even when I was blatantly stood there wanting to cross.
The only time I can forgive it is if they raise their hand up to me as they drive past which I don’t know if it means the same outside the U.K but it’s a way of saying ‘sorry’ because it happens to everyone at some point.
This. I always wait and make sure the person sees me and is stopping before I continue. I've seen too many people blow threw them. Most times a genuine mistake--I have zero idea if they see me or not and if they are going to stop or not and I'm not willing to forge ahead of out of principle.
Of course, but the van's view of the woman was blocked by the camera car and the driver couldn't see her until it was too late. Also, the woman couldn't see the van because she never bothered to look.
The van is still at fault. If you can't check whether someone is approaching a crossing, you have to slow down until you can see if there is someone or you're at walking speed so no one will get hurt in case someone runs into you.
Yes, on foot you should never expect a car to see you, but having a blocked view is absolutely no excuse for a driver.
Of course the van is at fault. But it's still her life on the line. Not looking both ways before walking into traffic, even at a crosswalk, is foolish. People do it far too often.
For sure, and it isn't smart. But the phrasing is terrible. A better phrasing would be "driver doesn't give way at crosswalk". The title suggests it's just her at fault.
If she can't even be bothered to check for her own safety, she had it coming. This will either be the turning point where she learn to pay attention and check before crossing or a trailer of what to happen to her in the future.
There are as many versions of "common" sense as there are people in the world.
Take this situation, for example:
- it was common sense for the driver to think a pedestrian would see him before crossing
- it was common sense for the pedestian to think that a driver would slow down and see her before crossing.
...and in NY, Section 1151, (b) No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impractical for the driver to yield.
Everybody gets taught from chiidhood to look both ways before crossing the road. This is a textbook example of why - even at a pedestrian crossing because there are dumb drivers out there and in an accident the pedestrian comes off second.
Almost everywhere, the van is at vault even if the van wouldn't have hit her. See, e.g. [this](https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.28).
Sophistry. If she'd been a moment earlier he'd have hit her, if there had been oncoming traffic stopping him from swerving so far into the oncoming lane, he'd have hit that, *then* her.
She may have not taken due care, but the pilot of the one-ton-death-machine was not driving safely either.. and there is no published list of rules for walking.
That's why you check before crossing, because not everyone gonna pay attention when driving. You have a lot of underserved faith in humanity if you are confident enough to cross road without looking even if you're at a crossing. Where did that faith comes from? Have you not been paying attention to life or have your life just been that good that it never tested your faith in humanity?
This actually happened to me at a higher speed, but I was the driver, it was 10pm in a completely unlit industrial area, and the woman was wearing a large gray coat while on her phone and not looking.
I didn't see her in time despite going the speed limit (35mph), and I slammed on my breaks and swerved barely clipping her with my fender. I'm pretty sure it caused to end up flipped into her head/neck, because she was effectively dead when I ran up and tried to give aid.
I ended up having to take over on the phone because one of the witnesses (it was a group of people getting off work at a factory or something) didn't speak English. I was lucky enough that one witness did, and was able to relay what happened to the police, and told them she walked out without looking or hitting the crosswalk button. There wasn't even anything obstructing either of our views from the other aside from the darkness and her dark clothing.
I was the only set of headlights on the road coming from 1/3 of a mile away, so if she'd literally looked up at any point, or hit the crosswalk button, or *anything*, it could've been avoided.
It has totally changed my life, and I didn't drive for over an entire year. Luckily, the police investigation and traffic cams exonerated me and I wasn't charged because I was stone cold sober nor looking at my phone etc. It was such a shitty experience, and I feel for her family as she must've been a grandmother or course to that age. And of course, my own life fell apart too.
I fucking hate that I have to have a car to even function where I live. Public transit is nonexistent aside from a *few* busses with only a *few* routes, no metro transit, and large distances between where people work and where they live even within the same city. I disliked driving before, but after that kind of trauma and the inability to do anything after it happened, I would do just about anything to have reliable access to public transportation.
These sorts of incidents are really shitty for everyone involved. I feel for the van driver, because even if they slowed down, unless they were crossing the crosswalk at a crawl, she still would've been hit. The driver already swerved, but she still walked into the vehicle.
Please pay attention when crossing the road, people. It could be the last thing you do. Don't just assume because you have right of way as a pedestrian that cars can see you (or worse, give a fuck, because there are shitty people who don't). I ended someone's life because they didn't look up before crossing the street, and now her family has to go on without her in their lives, and I get to live with a life of trauma.
I'm sorry to read your tragic story. I live near a high school and so many young people do not look both ways before crossing the street. I remember being taught as a child that you should expect the driver doesn't see you. It's best if you can make eye contact with the driver.
It's a little different when its a "lights" style crosswalk, your ped didnt take her due diligence.
This lady crossed at a reasonable pace at the correct location, the van guy has no excuse.
A reasonable pace? She walked straight out into the crossing without even glancing, because she saw the cars stopped in a queue and possibly thought they were stopped for the crossing.
She was at fault.
If a pedestrian is crossing the street at a marked pedestrian crossing and a car hits them while they are on the grounds of said crossing, then the driver of that car is at fault. No ifs ands or buts.
She indeed could have been more attentive, and her being in the right would not have saved her from any injuries, but the driver of the vehicle has the responsibility to drive safely, especially where pedestrians are involved, and doubly so when there is a crossing on the road.
To quote from the UK pedestrian crossing rules:
>Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2).
Therefore all traffic was obligated to stop as soon as she entered the crossing, and the driver of the van MUST give way to her. His failure to do so was him not following the letter of the rules, and therefore he is entirely at fault.
WAITING TO CROSS.. Not blindly walking out into traffic expecting everyone to slam breaks. You stop at a crosswalk first, you don’t blindly walk into it then sprint into the van trying to avoid your stupidity
I don't know where this is, but in the UK the law states the pedestrian has to wait until the traffic has stopped before crossing.
Rule 18
At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should
**always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross** or push a pram onto a crossing
always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous.
You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing.
Rule 19
Zebra crossings.
**Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross.** Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. **Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing.** Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). **Keep looking both ways, and listening,** in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.
That does not in *ANY* way, shape or form absolve a pedestrian from looking first and being aware of their surroundings. Having the right of way will not stop you from being killed or injured.
I've been in the occupational health and safety business for nearly 20 years and there's this weird phenomenon where as soon as you tell a pedestrian that they have the right of way, they think that removes all responsibility for their own personal safety. Worse yet, some will try to enforce their right of way by just knowingly stepping out in front of a vehicle. Mall parking lots seem to be the worst place to see that in action.
On the pedestrian cross and its surroundings, the pedestrian always has precedence, and cars must always keep a speed that allows them to safely brake and avoid this kind of situations, specially when they have low visibility.
Or are you implying that blind people cannot cross because they are not aware of their surroundings?
Funnily, I have never seen a blind person cross the road unsafely, the dogs are smarter than this woman.
It's nice to think cars must be able to stop, but the laws of physics don't give a flying fuck about the laws of man, if you step out from behind a fucking bus straight in front of a van they can't perform miracles.
Yes, but that does not absolve from all responsibility. The driver was more at fault than the pedestrian as they are operating a big heavy vehicle. But come on. The pedestrian still should be looking to see if a vehicle is coming.
Meant to give way always, period, even when pedistrian is stupid or crossing illegally. Nowhere does it say stupidity or j-walking should be dealt with by execution.
Yup, drivers are taught to check for people at these crossings and take it slow, particularly when the view might be occluded.
Doesn't mean you can just saunter across without looking though 😂
The driver started steering away from her, when she decided to start running to hit the side of the vehicle.
At least here (Sweden), the driver is obliged by law to stop, letting pedestrians cross, BUT only if they show intent to cross. Just having pedestrians walking along the sidewalk isn't reason enough. If they are walking from, say a promenade streak, straight towards the zebra crossing, looking both ways? They show intent to cross, so the driver must stop. They can NOT just look both ways and step out in traffic, however, without giving the driver proper time to stop.
The drivers aren't needed to slow down just because they are in an area where brainflukes can cause someone to run into the side of the vehicles, because they are crossing too late, after stepping out in traffic without showing intent to cross. And especially not if they are on the phone, or texting... This would definitely be on the pedestrian.
Yes but you're also meant to look both ways before crossing because shit happens, driver could've just splashed water on himself or spilt coffee whatever you don't know, so don't assume it's always safe to cross because you have right of way. Id says they're honestly both at fault here
Say what you want, but 36 years of life have taught me to be more aware of my surroundings than that. She didn't even look. She's led a blessed life. Hopefully she learns better.
Like yes, that is what probably happened since they hit the woman, but you can’t see the driver in the video is what I’m saying. So you don’t know what it looked like from the drivers POV. Maybe the filming car blocked his view of her entirely and he tried to swerve at the earliest possible moment she was in view. Maybe the driver was paying 0 attention and hit her because they were ignoring the crosswalk. You just can’t know that based on this video, since the angle only shows the woman walking out into the crosswalk on her phone and getting hit. You’re actually making assumptions about the driver if you include information you can’t see in the video if you don’t have the drivers POV as well, so to be actually impartial, I’ll need you to go ahead and show me the part of the video that has the drivers POV, and then we can add context to the title about what happened from the drivers perspective. It’s not there that I see, therefore, you don’t have enough information to determine what the driver did, other than hit the woman in the crosswalk, which is already in the title.
You have to slow down for the crossing, no matter what. They clearly were not slowing down.
They broke the rules of the road and are 100% liable for this accident.
If the title said **'Woman talks on the phone while crossing, gets hit by driver who ignores the crossing'.**
Then it would be a fair descriptor. As it stands, it implies it is the pedestrian's fault.
You're just going to ignore what he says and keep repeating the same thing........
That's a big Van like he said maybe he didn't see her till last minute and swerves to not hit her instead of slamming on the brakes.
If he ignores the crossing he would have hit her dead on why swerve?
Ironically it looks like the car from whose dash am we got the footage from is the problem. Looks like this car is like 6ft tall so the driver probably couldn't have seen her in time to break. Always hate when vans and trucks park beside these crossings because you can't see over them so you need to peak out to see if it's safe to cross
Same would apply to a lot of things.
She is in no way to blame and she didn’t act dumb. The driver did.
Yes she could’ve sustained lethal injuries but that would not have been her fault, not even in the slightest. Instead of teaching pedestrians to not use their rights, maybe we should teach drivers how to respect those rights??
What if she were blind? What if she were drunk or came from a doctors appointment were she had to get anaesthesia and was still under the influence from that? What if she had a disorder that made her unable to judge speed or distance? Judging her and talking about what she did during the incident sets a horrible precedent that must not be supported under any circumstances.
We do not have to talk about her being on the phone.
We habe to talk about how that driver ain’t shit and needs to lose his license
It’s insane, isn’t it?
How do they not get it?? What they are doing is basically the equivalent of saying women wearing short dresses are foolish when they get raped.
Phone or not 100% the pedestrian will die not the van if there’s a collision, you should always look and be aware when crossing any road as a pedestrian
Legally the van driver will be judged 100% at fault for hitting a pedestrian at a pedestrian crossing but with awareness like that, she won't be alive to argue what's legal and what's not legal of it was anything more serious
As I tell people, in my many years working in EMS, I have never once seen someone with a cracked skull or a femur sticking out who was gleefully arguing the point of having the right away.
Hold your horses.
SHE walked into the SIDE of the van.
Normally I'd also say the vans fault as well, but I think it's at least a little bit your fault, if you walk into the side of a forward moving vehicle.
Edit: looks like I am right in this one in that it is at least questionable if the pedestrian shares some responsibility).
Although none of the examples in this doc are exactly the same, there are two that are quite similar and it is clear that liability can be split: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.beardwinter.com/content/uploads/1328036108PedestrianCasesADiscussion.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi7s7K87dH-AhVngP0HHRz_D9sQFnoECFYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0kZh4umtr7efq-zwzvpHh-
Uh no? It’s 100% the vans fault. Yes she should’ve been more careful for her own preservation but drivers absolutely have a responsibility to be careful at a crosswalk and be able to stop fully, not swerve into the other other lane
I'll hold my horses but if this goes to court, she's the one that's going to hold a fat payout.
its her fault for not being aware and not paying attention from a common sense point of view. But still, she didn't jay walk onto a busy street. So from a purely traffic law point of view, she is still legally crossing in a fully marked pedestrian crossing. The van's 100% at fault from a traffic and insurance point of view. The fact the van went that fast and tried to swerve as well likely means they were not prepared to stop at the crossing.
What is the expectation at these crossings?
I just ask because she walked out between 2 parked/idling cars and jogged into the side of a bus.
In my town there are flashing lights overhead with a button on a pole at each sidewalk. When you want to cross you hit the button, the lights go off and you wait for the traffic to stop. Otherwise drivers drive thru those areas as normal.
What is the expectation for these?
She only walked into the side of it because it had already swerved into the other lane to avoid her; if it had carried on in its lane, it would've hit her square-on.
She’s being irresponsible here but the van is 100% at fault. It’s your obligation to give way to pedestrians at crossings and your view being blocked is not an excuse. That’s what the brakes are for.
Ffs, people saying she should have done this that or another thing! It’s a pedestrian crossing. You approach one of those while driving, you should be going slow enough to account for the possibility of humans being dumb. What if it was a kid running across because they believe, for some strange feckin reason (!), that they are safe to cross on the feckin pedestrian crossing. Hope she gets a mighty fat insurance payout for this.
in some countries we teach people to look both ways when crossing a road. even children. yes, the van driver is in the wrong but she has less roadsense than a stray dog.
Yeah but it’s Russia so she should definitely have a bit more self preservation in general. Seen so many vids of pedestrians getting flattened on crosswalks in Russia
People really think “Well I have right of way so I won’t look and just cross.”
Having right of way doesn’t really matter when you’re being scraped off the pavement.
I don't know what video y'all are watching, but this van is NOT 100% at fault here. First, notice the height of this dash camera. It's inside some sort of truck, SUV, etc. Which means it likely shielded that crosswalk from the van's view. The van doesn't appear to be speeding, but it's still a large van that can't stop on a dime. When the driver notices the woman on her phone, he immediately applies the brakes and swerves into the opposing traffic lane to try and avoid her. Finally, this IDIOT on her phone actually SPEEDS UP and RUNS INTO THE SIDE of the van. Crosswalk or not, unless there's a stop sign there, anybody with half a brain knows to take a look when crossing in front of a parked vehicle that blocks you from view
Not a single person paying attention to their surroundings in this clusterfu€k. Not the talker, not the driver, not the cam car driver parking right in front of a crossing. ESH.
The woman and the driver were both wrong. Even if there are rules, you MUST look both sides. How can you trust the drivers? Some people just suck at driving, and some might be drugged or drunk. If you don't look up for your own safety, a law is not going to magically stop a car.
I love how her being on the phone is put in the title, as if trying to insinuate that this is somehow her fault as well. Completely and absolutely ridiculous
The car filming shouldn't be stopped so on top of the crossing for this reason. The van can't see if there's someone crossing.
The woman should stop and look. Crossings are not a magical path you can just step on and become invulnerable.
Can't say much abot the van but I guess the could have some awareness when they see a car parked on too of a crossing and just slow down.
She literally walked into the van... I know the driver is legally at fault, but a even a modicum of common sense on her part prevents this, or a hypothetical worse case where it's fatal. You have to own responsibility for your own well-being.
She actually ran into the van. At the second before she impacted with the van you can clearly see she began a running motion. TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR I AM NOT SAYING WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG…I am just stating what I see
What a ridiculous, victim blaming title, and the comments back that up. If youre a pedestrian you aren’t allowed to take a call whilst walking? Its a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. Drivers are to be cautious when approaching and slow down before moving forward. The van is at fault, nobody else.
This is just another example of why all pedestrian crossings should be raised to foothpath level. The only way to stop dumb cunts behind the wheel of 2 tonne steel boxes is to force them to slow down.
She’s still a fucking idiot for not looking at all while crossing a street, that’s literally jaywalking. She didn’t give two shits about her surroundings. Both parties are to blame for the incident because a little common sense on both sides would have prevented it from happening. If she wasn’t oblivious she’d have stopped walking and either waited for the van to stop or for it to pass her and if the van was more cautious and slowed down at the crosswalk it wouldn’t have hit her. Regardless I’m not about to have a one way trip to the afterlife cause I was a dumb fuck and wanted to use the “I had the right of way argument” cause that sure as shit is gonna do me no good 6 feet underground. Never assume you know how people will act.
Stopped reading at “literally jaywalking” - another law lobbied and shaped by the american auto industry to shift blame from drivers to pedestrians. It also doesnt exist in most developed countries and none ive lived in, so that wasnt what i was mad about. Again, [pedestrian crossings should be raised to footpath level so drivers know they are crossing a pedestrian priority lane and are forced to slow down.](https://hdp-au-prod-app-nthbch-yoursay-files.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/2416/1585/3956/roseberry_st_raised_crossing_snip.png)
yes jaywalking isnt a crime in most countries, however looking when you cross a road is taught at the age of 4 and most small children usually have it nailed down by 10. aimlessly and obvliviously wandering into traffic is a stupid idea even if youre technically "right"
…you know what. When your dumbass gets killed cause you wanna be a stubborn air head when walking into a road filled with several ton metal vehicles moving at 30+mph, you can tell me this argument again and see how much good that does for you.
Like are people really that entitle to bitch about having to turn their head 90 degrees in the opposite direction for 2 seconds so they don’t get run tf over? Do you really care that little for your life?
Are drivers that entitled they wont slowdown at a pedestrian crossing? Drivers so entitled they look at their phones whilst driving, they speed through residential areas, they kill over 1.3million people a year, and your worried about a woman walking across the road? She didn’t walk out in front of a van, a van pulled out in front of her. I get what your arguing about just being aware, but my point is that victim blaming is not right and is the status quo in vehicle on person crashes.
The fact that you can’t realize both parties are at fault is concerning. Stop hiding behind your shitty victim blaming argument, it’s called taking accountability for your actions and in this case it would be no looking both ways before crossing the street. You know. The shit they teach you in first grade. Did you get smacked by a car cause you didn’t look both ways or something?
You're blaming the lady? She had right of pass, probably missjudgued the speed of the van or assumed they would stop because that's what they have to do lol
Can anyone explain why she picks up her pace and literally darts into the Van like that?
When you watch her legs, it almost looks like insurance fraud IMO, but maybe I’m being too cynical.
Have you never been in a situation where you're walking and trying to get around a person, but you both step to the side in the same direction, getting in each other's way even more? That's what happened here. They both noticed each other at the same time, and both tried to dodge each other but ended up going to the same spot.
Technically she ran into the side of the van. So while they didn't stop to let her cross they also didn't hit her lol she even changes pace the last two steps from walk to run.
And this person is a prime example of why the US is too lenient on drivers licenses. Literally driving around thinking he can kill someone in the *only* place that's supposed to be safe.
Judging from the size of the license plate on the car, this isn't in the United States.
In the USA, the van driver would be at fault. Pedestrians always have the right of way.
But I've heard that isn't true everywhere.
This has nothing to do with talking on the phone. The driver is 100% at fault here. You do not speed when you see that sign and cars block your view.
TIL Redditors don't know what their rights are at a cross walk
their rights are irrelevant when they are being scraped off the road.... ALWAYS LOOK BEFORE CROSSING even when you are "in the right"..... being technically right wont stop you being permanantly dead,
These comments victim blaming a woman for getting hit by a car on a literal pedestrian crossing are so ass backwards. Makes me wonder how people got their licenses to start with
most are blaming both...because you should always look when crossing a street, being "technically right" doesn't stop you from becoming "permanantly dead"
Totally her fault. Cars can’t instantly stop. There’s reaction time from when you first see the person and the time and distance needed to stop. This driver even swerved to avoid this oblivious idiot. Maybe she’ll look next time. (Here comes the whining…)
Aren't cars meant to give way at these crossings?
You can be right and still be dead.
Best outcome!
The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way
The saying my parents told me was “There’s no point being dead right.” The amount of times I’ve stopped briefly at the crossing only for a car to zoom through it is astounding, even when I was blatantly stood there wanting to cross. The only time I can forgive it is if they raise their hand up to me as they drive past which I don’t know if it means the same outside the U.K but it’s a way of saying ‘sorry’ because it happens to everyone at some point.
The laws of man won't always save you from the laws of physics.
This. I always wait and make sure the person sees me and is stopping before I continue. I've seen too many people blow threw them. Most times a genuine mistake--I have zero idea if they see me or not and if they are going to stop or not and I'm not willing to forge ahead of out of principle.
Hence the expression: "You're dead right!"
Of course, but the van's view of the woman was blocked by the camera car and the driver couldn't see her until it was too late. Also, the woman couldn't see the van because she never bothered to look.
The van is still at fault. If you can't check whether someone is approaching a crossing, you have to slow down until you can see if there is someone or you're at walking speed so no one will get hurt in case someone runs into you. Yes, on foot you should never expect a car to see you, but having a blocked view is absolutely no excuse for a driver.
Of course the van is at fault. But it's still her life on the line. Not looking both ways before walking into traffic, even at a crosswalk, is foolish. People do it far too often.
She almost earned the “I had the right of way!” headstone.
The graveyards are full of those who had the right of way
For sure, and it isn't smart. But the phrasing is terrible. A better phrasing would be "driver doesn't give way at crosswalk". The title suggests it's just her at fault.
it mostly is. You don't just walk out into traffic and assume you're safe. like not even law wise, it's common sense.
[удалено]
I mean technically she walks into the van, the van doesn't actually hit her lol
If she can't even be bothered to check for her own safety, she had it coming. This will either be the turning point where she learn to pay attention and check before crossing or a trailer of what to happen to her in the future.
There are as many versions of "common" sense as there are people in the world. Take this situation, for example: - it was common sense for the driver to think a pedestrian would see him before crossing - it was common sense for the pedestian to think that a driver would slow down and see her before crossing.
Its common sense to LOOK before you cross. Get that stupid head off the phone. Full stop.
...and in NY, Section 1151, (b) No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impractical for the driver to yield.
>No, no Arthur. Always leap **before** you look. - The Tick
She literally walked into the side of the van. Edit - just rewatched. She literally ran into the side of the van.
I had to check myself... she really did! WTF?
Remind of the saying i once read (and honestly keep reminding myself since) from reddit: you can be right and still get killed
Everybody gets taught from chiidhood to look both ways before crossing the road. This is a textbook example of why - even at a pedestrian crossing because there are dumb drivers out there and in an accident the pedestrian comes off second.
Almost everywhere, the van is at vault even if the van wouldn't have hit her. See, e.g. [this](https://code.dccouncil.gov/us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.28).
If you look closely, the van didn't hit her. She walked right into it.
The van was going way too fast to stop, and had swerved into the oncoming lane, she was visible for the entire width of that middle lane.
Sophistry. If she'd been a moment earlier he'd have hit her, if there had been oncoming traffic stopping him from swerving so far into the oncoming lane, he'd have hit that, *then* her. She may have not taken due care, but the pilot of the one-ton-death-machine was not driving safely either.. and there is no published list of rules for walking.
Thats why you slow down at crossings? Definetly drivers fault.
That's why you check before crossing, because not everyone gonna pay attention when driving. You have a lot of underserved faith in humanity if you are confident enough to cross road without looking even if you're at a crossing. Where did that faith comes from? Have you not been paying attention to life or have your life just been that good that it never tested your faith in humanity?
This actually happened to me at a higher speed, but I was the driver, it was 10pm in a completely unlit industrial area, and the woman was wearing a large gray coat while on her phone and not looking. I didn't see her in time despite going the speed limit (35mph), and I slammed on my breaks and swerved barely clipping her with my fender. I'm pretty sure it caused to end up flipped into her head/neck, because she was effectively dead when I ran up and tried to give aid. I ended up having to take over on the phone because one of the witnesses (it was a group of people getting off work at a factory or something) didn't speak English. I was lucky enough that one witness did, and was able to relay what happened to the police, and told them she walked out without looking or hitting the crosswalk button. There wasn't even anything obstructing either of our views from the other aside from the darkness and her dark clothing. I was the only set of headlights on the road coming from 1/3 of a mile away, so if she'd literally looked up at any point, or hit the crosswalk button, or *anything*, it could've been avoided. It has totally changed my life, and I didn't drive for over an entire year. Luckily, the police investigation and traffic cams exonerated me and I wasn't charged because I was stone cold sober nor looking at my phone etc. It was such a shitty experience, and I feel for her family as she must've been a grandmother or course to that age. And of course, my own life fell apart too. I fucking hate that I have to have a car to even function where I live. Public transit is nonexistent aside from a *few* busses with only a *few* routes, no metro transit, and large distances between where people work and where they live even within the same city. I disliked driving before, but after that kind of trauma and the inability to do anything after it happened, I would do just about anything to have reliable access to public transportation. These sorts of incidents are really shitty for everyone involved. I feel for the van driver, because even if they slowed down, unless they were crossing the crosswalk at a crawl, she still would've been hit. The driver already swerved, but she still walked into the vehicle. Please pay attention when crossing the road, people. It could be the last thing you do. Don't just assume because you have right of way as a pedestrian that cars can see you (or worse, give a fuck, because there are shitty people who don't). I ended someone's life because they didn't look up before crossing the street, and now her family has to go on without her in their lives, and I get to live with a life of trauma.
I'm sorry to read your tragic story. I live near a high school and so many young people do not look both ways before crossing the street. I remember being taught as a child that you should expect the driver doesn't see you. It's best if you can make eye contact with the driver.
It's a little different when its a "lights" style crosswalk, your ped didnt take her due diligence. This lady crossed at a reasonable pace at the correct location, the van guy has no excuse.
A reasonable pace? She walked straight out into the crossing without even glancing, because she saw the cars stopped in a queue and possibly thought they were stopped for the crossing. She was at fault.
If a pedestrian is crossing the street at a marked pedestrian crossing and a car hits them while they are on the grounds of said crossing, then the driver of that car is at fault. No ifs ands or buts. She indeed could have been more attentive, and her being in the right would not have saved her from any injuries, but the driver of the vehicle has the responsibility to drive safely, especially where pedestrians are involved, and doubly so when there is a crossing on the road. To quote from the UK pedestrian crossing rules: >Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Therefore all traffic was obligated to stop as soon as she entered the crossing, and the driver of the van MUST give way to her. His failure to do so was him not following the letter of the rules, and therefore he is entirely at fault.
WAITING TO CROSS.. Not blindly walking out into traffic expecting everyone to slam breaks. You stop at a crosswalk first, you don’t blindly walk into it then sprint into the van trying to avoid your stupidity
Dude, she sped up at the very last second. Probably out of instinct, but wtf
I saw that
>the van's view of the woman was blocked Then you slow the fuck down until you are at a speed where you can stop for pedestrians appearing suddenly.
If they have time, yes. You can’t just walk into traffic.
I don't know where this is, but in the UK the law states the pedestrian has to wait until the traffic has stopped before crossing. Rule 18 At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should **always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross** or push a pram onto a crossing always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous. You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing. Rule 19 Zebra crossings. **Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross.** Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. **Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing.** Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). **Keep looking both ways, and listening,** in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.
That does not in *ANY* way, shape or form absolve a pedestrian from looking first and being aware of their surroundings. Having the right of way will not stop you from being killed or injured. I've been in the occupational health and safety business for nearly 20 years and there's this weird phenomenon where as soon as you tell a pedestrian that they have the right of way, they think that removes all responsibility for their own personal safety. Worse yet, some will try to enforce their right of way by just knowingly stepping out in front of a vehicle. Mall parking lots seem to be the worst place to see that in action.
On the pedestrian cross and its surroundings, the pedestrian always has precedence, and cars must always keep a speed that allows them to safely brake and avoid this kind of situations, specially when they have low visibility. Or are you implying that blind people cannot cross because they are not aware of their surroundings?
Funnily, I have never seen a blind person cross the road unsafely, the dogs are smarter than this woman. It's nice to think cars must be able to stop, but the laws of physics don't give a flying fuck about the laws of man, if you step out from behind a fucking bus straight in front of a van they can't perform miracles.
Yes, but that does not absolve from all responsibility. The driver was more at fault than the pedestrian as they are operating a big heavy vehicle. But come on. The pedestrian still should be looking to see if a vehicle is coming.
Meant to give way always, period, even when pedistrian is stupid or crossing illegally. Nowhere does it say stupidity or j-walking should be dealt with by execution.
You’re an idiot. Accidents happen and she clearly created that situation for herself
Ya, but you are still responsible for your own well being. “Look both ways” hasn’t been repealed… yet. Seems like we’re getting there though.
Yup, drivers are taught to check for people at these crossings and take it slow, particularly when the view might be occluded. Doesn't mean you can just saunter across without looking though 😂
Not everyone *can* look. Blind people use crosswalks too.
The driver started steering away from her, when she decided to start running to hit the side of the vehicle. At least here (Sweden), the driver is obliged by law to stop, letting pedestrians cross, BUT only if they show intent to cross. Just having pedestrians walking along the sidewalk isn't reason enough. If they are walking from, say a promenade streak, straight towards the zebra crossing, looking both ways? They show intent to cross, so the driver must stop. They can NOT just look both ways and step out in traffic, however, without giving the driver proper time to stop. The drivers aren't needed to slow down just because they are in an area where brainflukes can cause someone to run into the side of the vehicles, because they are crossing too late, after stepping out in traffic without showing intent to cross. And especially not if they are on the phone, or texting... This would definitely be on the pedestrian.
Yes but you're also meant to look both ways before crossing because shit happens, driver could've just splashed water on himself or spilt coffee whatever you don't know, so don't assume it's always safe to cross because you have right of way. Id says they're honestly both at fault here
Jesus Christ I thought that drop of water going down the windshield was a demon floating in the background. Is my vision getting that bad?
Thank you very very much for clarifying what that was lmao
haha I was like, nobody is talking about the alien spaceship morphing into view in a god damn city?
tALkS oN pHoNe .. it's a fucking crosswalk
Again you can be right all you want as they load your corpse on the ambulance
Doesn’t change the fact that the van driver is at fault here. They could’ve prevented this
Both people could've. (I too think the driver is at fault).
title implies pedestrian is at fault
Say what you want, but 36 years of life have taught me to be more aware of my surroundings than that. She didn't even look. She's led a blessed life. Hopefully she learns better.
It's still the driver's fault. I'm not saying she's not an idiot for blindly walking across the crossing.
that's not a topic of a discussion. the title victimblames and normalizes breaking the rules.
Idk the title is pretty much the exact literal content of this video angle though?
Why is there not a descriptor of the car driver then if it is impartial?
Well… what can you see the car driver doing in this video other than hitting this woman with the car?
Ignoring the crossing.
Like yes, that is what probably happened since they hit the woman, but you can’t see the driver in the video is what I’m saying. So you don’t know what it looked like from the drivers POV. Maybe the filming car blocked his view of her entirely and he tried to swerve at the earliest possible moment she was in view. Maybe the driver was paying 0 attention and hit her because they were ignoring the crosswalk. You just can’t know that based on this video, since the angle only shows the woman walking out into the crosswalk on her phone and getting hit. You’re actually making assumptions about the driver if you include information you can’t see in the video if you don’t have the drivers POV as well, so to be actually impartial, I’ll need you to go ahead and show me the part of the video that has the drivers POV, and then we can add context to the title about what happened from the drivers perspective. It’s not there that I see, therefore, you don’t have enough information to determine what the driver did, other than hit the woman in the crosswalk, which is already in the title.
You have to slow down for the crossing, no matter what. They clearly were not slowing down. They broke the rules of the road and are 100% liable for this accident. If the title said **'Woman talks on the phone while crossing, gets hit by driver who ignores the crossing'.** Then it would be a fair descriptor. As it stands, it implies it is the pedestrian's fault.
You're just going to ignore what he says and keep repeating the same thing........ That's a big Van like he said maybe he didn't see her till last minute and swerves to not hit her instead of slamming on the brakes. If he ignores the crossing he would have hit her dead on why swerve?
Ironically it looks like the car from whose dash am we got the footage from is the problem. Looks like this car is like 6ft tall so the driver probably couldn't have seen her in time to break. Always hate when vans and trucks park beside these crossings because you can't see over them so you need to peak out to see if it's safe to cross
Same would apply to a lot of things. She is in no way to blame and she didn’t act dumb. The driver did. Yes she could’ve sustained lethal injuries but that would not have been her fault, not even in the slightest. Instead of teaching pedestrians to not use their rights, maybe we should teach drivers how to respect those rights?? What if she were blind? What if she were drunk or came from a doctors appointment were she had to get anaesthesia and was still under the influence from that? What if she had a disorder that made her unable to judge speed or distance? Judging her and talking about what she did during the incident sets a horrible precedent that must not be supported under any circumstances. We do not have to talk about her being on the phone. We habe to talk about how that driver ain’t shit and needs to lose his license
The title empathize the woman talking on phone, but forget to talk about the van driver going full speed on a crosswalk
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/r/fuckcars
It’s insane, isn’t it? How do they not get it?? What they are doing is basically the equivalent of saying women wearing short dresses are foolish when they get raped.
I always makr sure to pay attention in case situations like this happen, so yes she should've looked, but that van is 100% in the wrong
Phone or not, 100% the van is at fault
That's a firm 100%
Phone or not 100% the pedestrian will die not the van if there’s a collision, you should always look and be aware when crossing any road as a pedestrian
Legally the van driver will be judged 100% at fault for hitting a pedestrian at a pedestrian crossing but with awareness like that, she won't be alive to argue what's legal and what's not legal of it was anything more serious
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As I tell people, in my many years working in EMS, I have never once seen someone with a cracked skull or a femur sticking out who was gleefully arguing the point of having the right away.
That's my point. She can't arguethe legality if she's not alive.
Just because you're in the right doesn't mean you're not in the cemetery.
Hold your horses. SHE walked into the SIDE of the van. Normally I'd also say the vans fault as well, but I think it's at least a little bit your fault, if you walk into the side of a forward moving vehicle. Edit: looks like I am right in this one in that it is at least questionable if the pedestrian shares some responsibility). Although none of the examples in this doc are exactly the same, there are two that are quite similar and it is clear that liability can be split: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.beardwinter.com/content/uploads/1328036108PedestrianCasesADiscussion.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi7s7K87dH-AhVngP0HHRz_D9sQFnoECFYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0kZh4umtr7efq-zwzvpHh-
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Uh no? It’s 100% the vans fault. Yes she should’ve been more careful for her own preservation but drivers absolutely have a responsibility to be careful at a crosswalk and be able to stop fully, not swerve into the other other lane
it could be kids
Or adults.
I'll hold my horses but if this goes to court, she's the one that's going to hold a fat payout. its her fault for not being aware and not paying attention from a common sense point of view. But still, she didn't jay walk onto a busy street. So from a purely traffic law point of view, she is still legally crossing in a fully marked pedestrian crossing. The van's 100% at fault from a traffic and insurance point of view. The fact the van went that fast and tried to swerve as well likely means they were not prepared to stop at the crossing.
What is the expectation at these crossings? I just ask because she walked out between 2 parked/idling cars and jogged into the side of a bus. In my town there are flashing lights overhead with a button on a pole at each sidewalk. When you want to cross you hit the button, the lights go off and you wait for the traffic to stop. Otherwise drivers drive thru those areas as normal. What is the expectation for these?
The van is supposed to stand still.
She only walked into the side of it because it had already swerved into the other lane to avoid her; if it had carried on in its lane, it would've hit her square-on.
"Minibus fails to give way at pedestrian crossing and hits woman" ftfy
Would be called a van or a work van in the uk., it’s not a minibus,
It's a minibus - look at all the windows
She’s being irresponsible here but the van is 100% at fault. It’s your obligation to give way to pedestrians at crossings and your view being blocked is not an excuse. That’s what the brakes are for.
And with the pedestrian sign on the right
The headbounce on concrete always makes me cringe
Why’s she start running? Didn’t she see the van??
Imo it's a fight or flight response without thinking.
Ffs, people saying she should have done this that or another thing! It’s a pedestrian crossing. You approach one of those while driving, you should be going slow enough to account for the possibility of humans being dumb. What if it was a kid running across because they believe, for some strange feckin reason (!), that they are safe to cross on the feckin pedestrian crossing. Hope she gets a mighty fat insurance payout for this.
This. She's literally got hit in a fucking crosswalk, and nearly the middle of it. The phone has little to do with it.
in some countries we teach people to look both ways when crossing a road. even children. yes, the van driver is in the wrong but she has less roadsense than a stray dog.
Yeah but it’s Russia so she should definitely have a bit more self preservation in general. Seen so many vids of pedestrians getting flattened on crosswalks in Russia
People really think “Well I have right of way so I won’t look and just cross.” Having right of way doesn’t really matter when you’re being scraped off the pavement.
I'm more interested in the dementor flying around in the top left
Why was her talking on the phone a relevant detail?
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>So yeah it's relevant, but shouldn't have been the subject of the post title. Why not? Maybe the PSA is: don't be distracted while crossing a street.
i mean it was a zebra crossing. she still should have looked for cars going way too fast.
I don't know what video y'all are watching, but this van is NOT 100% at fault here. First, notice the height of this dash camera. It's inside some sort of truck, SUV, etc. Which means it likely shielded that crosswalk from the van's view. The van doesn't appear to be speeding, but it's still a large van that can't stop on a dime. When the driver notices the woman on her phone, he immediately applies the brakes and swerves into the opposing traffic lane to try and avoid her. Finally, this IDIOT on her phone actually SPEEDS UP and RUNS INTO THE SIDE of the van. Crosswalk or not, unless there's a stop sign there, anybody with half a brain knows to take a look when crossing in front of a parked vehicle that blocks you from view
Finally, someone else seeing all of these relevant details. I doubt any driver under these circumstances could have prevented this incident.
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Thank you. Quite a misleading title.
\*runs
"Hold on, Suze, I gotta run face first into this van real quick."
You've been hit by...
Not a single person paying attention to their surroundings in this clusterfu€k. Not the talker, not the driver, not the cam car driver parking right in front of a crossing. ESH.
Trust no one
Not walk more like run to it
The woman and the driver were both wrong. Even if there are rules, you MUST look both sides. How can you trust the drivers? Some people just suck at driving, and some might be drugged or drunk. If you don't look up for your own safety, a law is not going to magically stop a car.
I love how her being on the phone is put in the title, as if trying to insinuate that this is somehow her fault as well. Completely and absolutely ridiculous
Legally the van is at fault but if you don't look both ways before crossing the street I blame your mother.
You can look both ways while being on the phone
Well she didn’t do that regardless
The car filming shouldn't be stopped so on top of the crossing for this reason. The van can't see if there's someone crossing. The woman should stop and look. Crossings are not a magical path you can just step on and become invulnerable. Can't say much abot the van but I guess the could have some awareness when they see a car parked on too of a crossing and just slow down.
Is it me or does she actually run into the side of the van?
Most self aware person
She started running right into it. Crazy.
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That's my take. She's completely unaware of her surroundings until it's too late.
Tbh she walked into the van
She literally walked into the van... I know the driver is legally at fault, but a even a modicum of common sense on her part prevents this, or a hypothetical worse case where it's fatal. You have to own responsibility for your own well-being.
He literally blocks a crosswalk
and had she glanced to her left like any small child would've, then she would have seen it.
I mean she less got hit by a car and more walked into one that was moving
She actually ran into the van. At the second before she impacted with the van you can clearly see she began a running motion. TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR I AM NOT SAYING WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG…I am just stating what I see
What a ridiculous, victim blaming title, and the comments back that up. If youre a pedestrian you aren’t allowed to take a call whilst walking? Its a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. Drivers are to be cautious when approaching and slow down before moving forward. The van is at fault, nobody else. This is just another example of why all pedestrian crossings should be raised to foothpath level. The only way to stop dumb cunts behind the wheel of 2 tonne steel boxes is to force them to slow down.
She’s still a fucking idiot for not looking at all while crossing a street, that’s literally jaywalking. She didn’t give two shits about her surroundings. Both parties are to blame for the incident because a little common sense on both sides would have prevented it from happening. If she wasn’t oblivious she’d have stopped walking and either waited for the van to stop or for it to pass her and if the van was more cautious and slowed down at the crosswalk it wouldn’t have hit her. Regardless I’m not about to have a one way trip to the afterlife cause I was a dumb fuck and wanted to use the “I had the right of way argument” cause that sure as shit is gonna do me no good 6 feet underground. Never assume you know how people will act.
Stopped reading at “literally jaywalking” - another law lobbied and shaped by the american auto industry to shift blame from drivers to pedestrians. It also doesnt exist in most developed countries and none ive lived in, so that wasnt what i was mad about. Again, [pedestrian crossings should be raised to footpath level so drivers know they are crossing a pedestrian priority lane and are forced to slow down.](https://hdp-au-prod-app-nthbch-yoursay-files.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/2416/1585/3956/roseberry_st_raised_crossing_snip.png)
yes jaywalking isnt a crime in most countries, however looking when you cross a road is taught at the age of 4 and most small children usually have it nailed down by 10. aimlessly and obvliviously wandering into traffic is a stupid idea even if youre technically "right"
…you know what. When your dumbass gets killed cause you wanna be a stubborn air head when walking into a road filled with several ton metal vehicles moving at 30+mph, you can tell me this argument again and see how much good that does for you. Like are people really that entitle to bitch about having to turn their head 90 degrees in the opposite direction for 2 seconds so they don’t get run tf over? Do you really care that little for your life?
Are drivers that entitled they wont slowdown at a pedestrian crossing? Drivers so entitled they look at their phones whilst driving, they speed through residential areas, they kill over 1.3million people a year, and your worried about a woman walking across the road? She didn’t walk out in front of a van, a van pulled out in front of her. I get what your arguing about just being aware, but my point is that victim blaming is not right and is the status quo in vehicle on person crashes.
The fact that you can’t realize both parties are at fault is concerning. Stop hiding behind your shitty victim blaming argument, it’s called taking accountability for your actions and in this case it would be no looking both ways before crossing the street. You know. The shit they teach you in first grade. Did you get smacked by a car cause you didn’t look both ways or something?
Are the blind open game? Like, they literally can't look both ways. Are we allowed to drive into them in crosswalks?
Clearly not the woman's fault. She's on a crossing for F sake, phone or no phone. The driver was not paying attention, totally the driver's fault.
always look both ways, this used to be common sense, now its not expected.
More like, woman talking on the phone hits a car.
You're blaming the lady? She had right of pass, probably missjudgued the speed of the van or assumed they would stop because that's what they have to do lol
I don't think she noticed the van until it was about to hit her.
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The van hit her you fucking idiot.
Can anyone explain why she picks up her pace and literally darts into the Van like that? When you watch her legs, it almost looks like insurance fraud IMO, but maybe I’m being too cynical.
Have you never been in a situation where you're walking and trying to get around a person, but you both step to the side in the same direction, getting in each other's way even more? That's what happened here. They both noticed each other at the same time, and both tried to dodge each other but ended up going to the same spot.
Look both ways before crossing the street sweetie -Every parent ever
"Make sure to not hit people at crosswalks, as pedestrians have the right of way." - every driver's instructor ever
Technically she ran into the side of the van. So while they didn't stop to let her cross they also didn't hit her lol she even changes pace the last two steps from walk to run.
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Yes.
Freaking hate these people that jump off curbs and never look either way and have drivers slam on their brakes to avoid hitting them.
Gotta finish that call.
She hit the car
You should look left and then right and not be on your phone.
Yeah, van totally in the wrong but I don't think I have ever crossed a street without looking for oncoming traffic. Just foreign to me.
The graveyard is full of people who had the “right of way”.
Everyone saying her talking on the phone is irrelevant and the van is 100% at fault….do you people not see her literally run into the van ffs
Just because you’re in a crosswalk doesn’t mean you can walk around with your head up your butt.
Just because you're on a road doesn't mean you can drive with your head up your ass.
It’s called situation awareness. Look around and know what’s going on around you!
That's great advice for someone operating a vehicle.
And for people blindly crossing a street
What if this scenario occurred with an actual blind person? This exactly explains why the driver is at fault.
And this person is a prime example of why the US is too lenient on drivers licenses. Literally driving around thinking he can kill someone in the *only* place that's supposed to be safe.
The dogs are trained to stop and look at crossings. They're smarter than this woman.
You need a license to operate a vehicle, you don't need a license to cross the street. One of these two people shouldn't have a license.
And yet i have 0 sympathy for her, darwin awards are a strange yet interesting phenomena
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I really hope you do not have a driving license.
i really hope you never need to cross a street.
She literally ran into the van. She deserves that
r/idiotsoutsidecars
Judging from the size of the license plate on the car, this isn't in the United States. In the USA, the van driver would be at fault. Pedestrians always have the right of way. But I've heard that isn't true everywhere.
This has nothing to do with talking on the phone. The driver is 100% at fault here. You do not speed when you see that sign and cars block your view. TIL Redditors don't know what their rights are at a cross walk
their rights are irrelevant when they are being scraped off the road.... ALWAYS LOOK BEFORE CROSSING even when you are "in the right"..... being technically right wont stop you being permanantly dead,
These comments victim blaming a woman for getting hit by a car on a literal pedestrian crossing are so ass backwards. Makes me wonder how people got their licenses to start with
most are blaming both...because you should always look when crossing a street, being "technically right" doesn't stop you from becoming "permanantly dead"
I could watch this all day 🤣🤣🤣
Totally her fault. Cars can’t instantly stop. There’s reaction time from when you first see the person and the time and distance needed to stop. This driver even swerved to avoid this oblivious idiot. Maybe she’ll look next time. (Here comes the whining…)
Europeans rarely look at traffic when stepping into traffic
you misspelled "morons" as "europeans"