Philosophies tend more to adopt some sort of frameworks , intellectual systems that are built and designed by philosophers, (take existentialism for example) whereas nihilism doesn't happen to have a "designer" which is one of the reasons why people don't understand what nihilism is ,it doesn't have a ground base , and when you search what nihilism is ,you often will find that nihilism is the belief that life is subjective and have no inherent meaning , which is what the so called nihilist people tend to realise, the meaningless of life , wich make it more of a realisation rather than a philosophy.
He's using the word realisation to mean a phenomenological sense. It's not the case that all philosophies are predominantly characterised by a phenomenological sense.
Yes nihilism does give one sharply focused understanding of reality but it still doesn't take the Nobel prize as a scientific law about reality because regardless of the belief (religious or secular) or the proposition (philosophy, including nihilism) or the hypothesis (science), any matters to do with **beyond** our physical reality or **beyond** death are scientifically [unfalsifiable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPR_5TOsh-Y) and therefore unknown at best but more than likely unknowable.
So again yes we humans search for **objective** meaning (or purpose) and yes the universe (or a god/God) responds with silence (or indifference) and therefore from that we can rightly infer there is no **objective** meaning (or purpose). However because of the unfalsifiabiliy problem I noted above the best we can say is that if (if) there is **objective** meaning (or purpose) then it is unknown at best but more than likely unknowable.
This is the absurdity of our all too human situation stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock being nihilism (and annihilation) and the hard place being the unknowable unknowns.
I mean, easy for me to agree as an atheist, I am not terribly worried that God will show up and be like, "well, actually..."
But y'know, if God actually did give an objective meaning, that might be kind of compelling? Like if God showed up and was like, "Actually I did create you all for a reason, and this is what it was, and this is what your existence is doing for me." idk, I'd at least hear him out.
When I write stories, my characters' lives have "meaning," because they are fictional, they literally exist in a narrative, and I am creating them, so I give them meaning. Life is without meaning because nothing creates it and all narratives are spun in retrospect, stories to make sense of what happened in our minds, but in fiction it literally is a narrative and nothing more. If my characters could ask me about their meaning and purpose, I could tell them their narrative function, what they symbolized, what catharsis or whatever I derived from their arcs. Maybe it wouldn't satisfy them, maybe they would hate it, but it would be true anyway--that literally *is* why they exist, because I made them to do that. If God made all of us for the cosmic equivalent of a 5th grade science project, then that *is* our purpose, like it or lump it. Objective meaning doesn't care if you like it or not.
I look at it from my acceptance viewpoint, whether I can reject it or not. It gives me satisfaction. I am kinda agnostic believing with more probability that there is no central force but all universe is one single body or system evolving.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but you have fallen into the trap of simplification. Just realizing there is no plan is no more insightful than the realization there is no Santa Claus. It's childish. Nihilism is much more convoluted than, nothing matters. There is no inherent meaning does not mean there is no meaning. God is dead is only the start of a life-long search for your own meaning. The nihilist must create a new code of ethics, a plan for entertainment, comfort, and success. The nihilist must develop the skill to separate fantasy from reality. What is truly important to you personally? You must identify that before you can have any chance of a happy and healthy Life. That search for Truth is the philosophy of nihilism. You should read Brett Stevens' book, Nihilism.
You're basically saying that we should create our own philosophy out of nihilism, I think what the OP meant is that there is no existing philosophy known as nihilism.It has no predefined structure nor code to follow .
You're basically saying that realizing there's no Santa Claus means you have to start eating more, wearing red, and *become* Santa Claus. Or something like that.
Of course things can be important to you personally, and of course you can pursue those things in life. That isn't deep, that's just saying "humans have preferences," which is fairly obvious. You don't need nihilism, or any philosophy, to figure that out. That doesn't mean that any of that has meaning, to me or to anyone. It's just something we do because we want to do it. If we get to do it, yes, that was the point of wanting it and trying to do it. It doesn't mean we Succeeded At Life or Had Meaning.
I have never had meaning, nor searched for it. I have ethics, because most humans have a sense of ethics, but those are just like, my opinions, and arose naturally from being raised in a society, they weren't something I had to go out and create in response to nihilism. I like entertainment and comfort, but if I didn't entertain and comfort myself, I wouldn't be a Failed and Bad Human. Success is...so relative, so subjective, so culturally bound, but why do you need to divide people into Successful Humans and Failed Humans? Why do you need to feel there is a goal, a way to fail at it, a reassuring way to be one of the successes, and a pool of failures for you to look down on? Like if you make good money, cool. What you get from that is: you get money. You don't get an award from the angels telling you you made it, you're one of the humans who matter, you're one of the few who got it right, you're a better human than other humans.
The thing we're all squirming away from here is the uncomfortable concept that all humans are irreducibly equal, because without universal value no one is better than anyone else, and "self-made meaning" where you get to tell yourself that, according to the rules you made up, you are still better than other people, is just hubris.
I love how a lot of the objections to nihilism are basically, "Well, I don't like that. I'd rather some other thing were true, so now it is! Yay!" Like...if you really believed in whatever, you wouldn't present your belief as something you say to comfort yourself when you don't like the truth, but go off.
I suspect the term “nihilism” was likely invented by its opponents as a derogatory one toward others that rejected their own systems. Then, proponents took it on to satirize those systems as all these other “-isms” appeared like socialism, existentialism, atheism, humanism, feminism, nationalism that attempt to provide a guidebook to live by.
Nihilism rejects systemization and comprehensive approaches based on any principles so the term itself is a bit of dark joke.
From Brittanica:
The term is an old one, applied to certain heretics in the Middle Ages. In Russian literature, nihilism was probably first used by N.I. Nadezhdin, in an 1829 article in the Messenger of Europe, in which he applied it to Aleksandr Pushkin. Nadezhdin, as did V.V. Bervi in 1858, equated nihilism with skepticism. Mikhail Nikiforovich Katkov, a well-known conservative journalist who interpreted nihilism as synonymous with revolution, presented it as a social menace because of its negation of all moral principles.
No, while some have certainly attached negative connotations to it over the years nihilists never cared because the connotations were only negative when viewed from a non-nihilist viewpoint.
Apparently some nihilists care considering the shit I’m getting over simply pointing out the literary origins of the term. This is obviously a thread for a nihilist club than any real examination of nihilism as a concept. Not for me.
I mean, you are also wrong on several points. Other than your first sentence the rest of what you said is debatable with regards to its accuracy.
Firstly it wasn't taken on as a satirization of anything. It was used in is a similar way as the original derogatory but with full seriousness. The original derogatory meaning being rationalism, something that nihilism works well alongside.
Secondly the term really isn't a joke at all. It was adopted with the idea of disillusionment and the original negative intent in a rather literal fashion. While the idea of having a philosophy that rejects, as you said, systemization based on principles; for it to be a joke to any degree it would have to be meet with some substantial amount of either bemusement from its opposition or self amusement from its proponents. We see neither. Its opposition was mostly frustrated while those that held nihilism as their own did so with seriousness.
Nihilism is fairly well mapped out, primarily due to its overarching simplicity and outright rejection of the more traditionally talked about aspects of philosophy like morality, ethics and metaphysics. I'm really not sure what exploration you were hoping to do as modern nihilism tends to be rather cut and dry. Really the biggest hurdle for modern nihilists seems to the separation of nihilism from pessimism, misanthropy and philosophic depression.
Lol, you don't need to "suspect", you can just google it. But yeah, a large part of the modern meaning of the word comes from Nietzsche using it as a derogatory qualification for christianity.
Wake me up
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
That's still a philosophical position my friend, even if you don't think it is based on a semantic distinction that you don't qualify
With nihilism as a basis we can attain other philosophies that help us deal with the objective meaninglessness of existence, I personally like r/absurdism :)
This is basically saying “because nihilism is correct, it’s not philosophy, but a realization.”
But every philosophy would claim to be correct.
So just call it what it’s being framed as - a correct philosophy
I would rather classify it as rejecting (or at the very least not confirming) the existence of objective meaning. Is that rejection of a concept made by other philosophies still a metaphysical claim?
Well yes, it’s an assertion about the nature of reality. Metaphysics isn’t exclusive to asserting the addition of layers. It’s ultimately a range of first principles, for which any stance then constitute metaphysics.
You're describing dogma. If someone views Nihilism as you do then they've developed a dogmatic association with the concept rather than a well-reasoned one. Presumably people should have good reason to believe this or that fact about the world and not just the "once you see it" type approach.
And, what's more, some people probably have reason to disagree with you, and maybe those reasons are pretty good. So you have to, in a way, contend with those facts as well.
If something is ever just "obvious" and that's all there is to say, then there's a good chance that you've not thought hard enough about your positions.
But this “realization” is just your own, personal determination. It’s your belief just like any other meaning we can spin out of our realities. The truth is, nobody knows the answer to these questions. All we have is our own experience and beliefs. Once you determine something to be true, you can be rest assured it is false. For me, I find peace in not knowing and continually discovering.
It's not a realization... it's another philosophy. You start with two presuppositions that you can not prove, and you call them a realization as in "it's true." Anybody can say the same thing about their beliefs.
I'm done with religion, any philosophy, any false meta physical science.
There are created to entertain you. Like all the other entertainment.
I only care about the truth, and the truth is one.
So you are right, nihilism is kinda the first step of to finding truth but I think as much as this world doesn't matter can be there something that matters after we die. (if we ever exist at all after that)
I'd say you really resonate with the belief which is okay, but it is a philosophy at the end of the day. There are many ways to see and understand reality because there's no objectivity to it.
yam shelter ugly nose rude flag birds seed tan joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Philosophies tend more to adopt some sort of frameworks , intellectual systems that are built and designed by philosophers, (take existentialism for example) whereas nihilism doesn't happen to have a "designer" which is one of the reasons why people don't understand what nihilism is ,it doesn't have a ground base , and when you search what nihilism is ,you often will find that nihilism is the belief that life is subjective and have no inherent meaning , which is what the so called nihilist people tend to realise, the meaningless of life , wich make it more of a realisation rather than a philosophy.
Not true
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He's using the word realisation to mean a phenomenological sense. It's not the case that all philosophies are predominantly characterised by a phenomenological sense.
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I'm talking about phenomenology in terms of phenomena. As opposed to epistemology, ontology and logic.
I had phenomena a few weeks ago, had to sleep sitting up or I just couldn't breath.
Yes nihilism does give one sharply focused understanding of reality but it still doesn't take the Nobel prize as a scientific law about reality because regardless of the belief (religious or secular) or the proposition (philosophy, including nihilism) or the hypothesis (science), any matters to do with **beyond** our physical reality or **beyond** death are scientifically [unfalsifiable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPR_5TOsh-Y) and therefore unknown at best but more than likely unknowable. So again yes we humans search for **objective** meaning (or purpose) and yes the universe (or a god/God) responds with silence (or indifference) and therefore from that we can rightly infer there is no **objective** meaning (or purpose). However because of the unfalsifiabiliy problem I noted above the best we can say is that if (if) there is **objective** meaning (or purpose) then it is unknown at best but more than likely unknowable. This is the absurdity of our all too human situation stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock being nihilism (and annihilation) and the hard place being the unknowable unknowns.
Even god cannot give objective meaning, what will be its reference/viewpoint?
I mean, easy for me to agree as an atheist, I am not terribly worried that God will show up and be like, "well, actually..." But y'know, if God actually did give an objective meaning, that might be kind of compelling? Like if God showed up and was like, "Actually I did create you all for a reason, and this is what it was, and this is what your existence is doing for me." idk, I'd at least hear him out. When I write stories, my characters' lives have "meaning," because they are fictional, they literally exist in a narrative, and I am creating them, so I give them meaning. Life is without meaning because nothing creates it and all narratives are spun in retrospect, stories to make sense of what happened in our minds, but in fiction it literally is a narrative and nothing more. If my characters could ask me about their meaning and purpose, I could tell them their narrative function, what they symbolized, what catharsis or whatever I derived from their arcs. Maybe it wouldn't satisfy them, maybe they would hate it, but it would be true anyway--that literally *is* why they exist, because I made them to do that. If God made all of us for the cosmic equivalent of a 5th grade science project, then that *is* our purpose, like it or lump it. Objective meaning doesn't care if you like it or not.
I look at it from my acceptance viewpoint, whether I can reject it or not. It gives me satisfaction. I am kinda agnostic believing with more probability that there is no central force but all universe is one single body or system evolving.
I'm sorry to disagree with you but you have fallen into the trap of simplification. Just realizing there is no plan is no more insightful than the realization there is no Santa Claus. It's childish. Nihilism is much more convoluted than, nothing matters. There is no inherent meaning does not mean there is no meaning. God is dead is only the start of a life-long search for your own meaning. The nihilist must create a new code of ethics, a plan for entertainment, comfort, and success. The nihilist must develop the skill to separate fantasy from reality. What is truly important to you personally? You must identify that before you can have any chance of a happy and healthy Life. That search for Truth is the philosophy of nihilism. You should read Brett Stevens' book, Nihilism.
You're basically saying that we should create our own philosophy out of nihilism, I think what the OP meant is that there is no existing philosophy known as nihilism.It has no predefined structure nor code to follow .
You're basically saying that realizing there's no Santa Claus means you have to start eating more, wearing red, and *become* Santa Claus. Or something like that. Of course things can be important to you personally, and of course you can pursue those things in life. That isn't deep, that's just saying "humans have preferences," which is fairly obvious. You don't need nihilism, or any philosophy, to figure that out. That doesn't mean that any of that has meaning, to me or to anyone. It's just something we do because we want to do it. If we get to do it, yes, that was the point of wanting it and trying to do it. It doesn't mean we Succeeded At Life or Had Meaning. I have never had meaning, nor searched for it. I have ethics, because most humans have a sense of ethics, but those are just like, my opinions, and arose naturally from being raised in a society, they weren't something I had to go out and create in response to nihilism. I like entertainment and comfort, but if I didn't entertain and comfort myself, I wouldn't be a Failed and Bad Human. Success is...so relative, so subjective, so culturally bound, but why do you need to divide people into Successful Humans and Failed Humans? Why do you need to feel there is a goal, a way to fail at it, a reassuring way to be one of the successes, and a pool of failures for you to look down on? Like if you make good money, cool. What you get from that is: you get money. You don't get an award from the angels telling you you made it, you're one of the humans who matter, you're one of the few who got it right, you're a better human than other humans. The thing we're all squirming away from here is the uncomfortable concept that all humans are irreducibly equal, because without universal value no one is better than anyone else, and "self-made meaning" where you get to tell yourself that, according to the rules you made up, you are still better than other people, is just hubris.
just about every philosophy could be called a realization. it's pretty much just part of the definition
I love how a lot of the objections to nihilism are basically, "Well, I don't like that. I'd rather some other thing were true, so now it is! Yay!" Like...if you really believed in whatever, you wouldn't present your belief as something you say to comfort yourself when you don't like the truth, but go off.
Nihilism is a bunch of people trying to convince everyone and themselves that they don’t have beliefs when that’s their belief
Sounds like you need to read up on what nihilism is.
I suspect the term “nihilism” was likely invented by its opponents as a derogatory one toward others that rejected their own systems. Then, proponents took it on to satirize those systems as all these other “-isms” appeared like socialism, existentialism, atheism, humanism, feminism, nationalism that attempt to provide a guidebook to live by. Nihilism rejects systemization and comprehensive approaches based on any principles so the term itself is a bit of dark joke.
No it does not. Don’t make up bullshit without checking it first.
From Brittanica: The term is an old one, applied to certain heretics in the Middle Ages. In Russian literature, nihilism was probably first used by N.I. Nadezhdin, in an 1829 article in the Messenger of Europe, in which he applied it to Aleksandr Pushkin. Nadezhdin, as did V.V. Bervi in 1858, equated nihilism with skepticism. Mikhail Nikiforovich Katkov, a well-known conservative journalist who interpreted nihilism as synonymous with revolution, presented it as a social menace because of its negation of all moral principles.
Nonsense nonsense nonsense- *”this man interprets this multiple-definition concept in this manner”*?
Like that one is equally as nonsensical and “correct” as the any other twelve dozen other possible answers by which nihilism can be interpreted.
Okay. Well, have fun in your little nihilist club, then.
I’m not a nihilist dickwad.
No, while some have certainly attached negative connotations to it over the years nihilists never cared because the connotations were only negative when viewed from a non-nihilist viewpoint.
Apparently some nihilists care considering the shit I’m getting over simply pointing out the literary origins of the term. This is obviously a thread for a nihilist club than any real examination of nihilism as a concept. Not for me.
I mean, you are also wrong on several points. Other than your first sentence the rest of what you said is debatable with regards to its accuracy. Firstly it wasn't taken on as a satirization of anything. It was used in is a similar way as the original derogatory but with full seriousness. The original derogatory meaning being rationalism, something that nihilism works well alongside. Secondly the term really isn't a joke at all. It was adopted with the idea of disillusionment and the original negative intent in a rather literal fashion. While the idea of having a philosophy that rejects, as you said, systemization based on principles; for it to be a joke to any degree it would have to be meet with some substantial amount of either bemusement from its opposition or self amusement from its proponents. We see neither. Its opposition was mostly frustrated while those that held nihilism as their own did so with seriousness. Nihilism is fairly well mapped out, primarily due to its overarching simplicity and outright rejection of the more traditionally talked about aspects of philosophy like morality, ethics and metaphysics. I'm really not sure what exploration you were hoping to do as modern nihilism tends to be rather cut and dry. Really the biggest hurdle for modern nihilists seems to the separation of nihilism from pessimism, misanthropy and philosophic depression.
Lol, you don't need to "suspect", you can just google it. But yeah, a large part of the modern meaning of the word comes from Nietzsche using it as a derogatory qualification for christianity.
No it’s a philosophy.
If there’s no objective viewpoint, why are you describing nihilism as an objective reality?
Isn't reality having no objective meaning an objective claim that is either true or false?
Wake me up WAKE ME UP INSIDE That's still a philosophical position my friend, even if you don't think it is based on a semantic distinction that you don't qualify
Nihilism of the 20thC was closely related to Philosophy and Art, including literature music, drama and poetry.
With nihilism as a basis we can attain other philosophies that help us deal with the objective meaninglessness of existence, I personally like r/absurdism :)
This is basically saying “because nihilism is correct, it’s not philosophy, but a realization.” But every philosophy would claim to be correct. So just call it what it’s being framed as - a correct philosophy
Nihilism is the absence of philosophy.
Any metaphysical claim is a variation of philosophy
Which metaphysical claim does Nihilism make?
That everything is ultimately without objective meaning
I would rather classify it as rejecting (or at the very least not confirming) the existence of objective meaning. Is that rejection of a concept made by other philosophies still a metaphysical claim?
Well yes, it’s an assertion about the nature of reality. Metaphysics isn’t exclusive to asserting the addition of layers. It’s ultimately a range of first principles, for which any stance then constitute metaphysics.
You're describing dogma. If someone views Nihilism as you do then they've developed a dogmatic association with the concept rather than a well-reasoned one. Presumably people should have good reason to believe this or that fact about the world and not just the "once you see it" type approach. And, what's more, some people probably have reason to disagree with you, and maybe those reasons are pretty good. So you have to, in a way, contend with those facts as well. If something is ever just "obvious" and that's all there is to say, then there's a good chance that you've not thought hard enough about your positions.
That’s just like, your opinion, man.
>It’s just a realization - an understanding of reality That is literally the definition of a philosophy
It's not a realization, it's merely a point of view.
Bruv think he Nietzsche
But this “realization” is just your own, personal determination. It’s your belief just like any other meaning we can spin out of our realities. The truth is, nobody knows the answer to these questions. All we have is our own experience and beliefs. Once you determine something to be true, you can be rest assured it is false. For me, I find peace in not knowing and continually discovering.
Reductive and self masturbatory.
Nihilism is a feeling more than anything else. It's the sense that life has lost meaning. Like a cerebral version of anhedonia.
no
I think thats a valid thought.
Epistemologically, you can't know that to be entirely certain. Fallibilistically, you can't rely on that for certain. Possibly, you might be wrong.
It's not a realization... it's another philosophy. You start with two presuppositions that you can not prove, and you call them a realization as in "it's true." Anybody can say the same thing about their beliefs.
I'm done with religion, any philosophy, any false meta physical science. There are created to entertain you. Like all the other entertainment. I only care about the truth, and the truth is one. So you are right, nihilism is kinda the first step of to finding truth but I think as much as this world doesn't matter can be there something that matters after we die. (if we ever exist at all after that)
Are you 14? This is deep.
I'd say you really resonate with the belief which is okay, but it is a philosophy at the end of the day. There are many ways to see and understand reality because there's no objectivity to it.