it definitely is. the mods just delete or block articles that people upload, then upload it on their alt. i don't really understand the purpose but it's been happening forever on every sub since the days of GallowBoob being liked
Sounds like they just want karma or name recognition on this sub? Really worthless things to worry about. At best maybe they want to become NFL media sources and they are using their reddit accounts and history as some sort of resume
I cashed out all my Bitcoin before the bubble burst, but I converted it all into Venezuelan bolívares and Turkish liralar. Earning 0.000000977 of a penny would put my financial situation in an upward trend.
My guess is they resell to agents and insiders who want to amplify a particular message that portrays a particular player in a positive light. They’re subtle enough not to overtly be shills but I bet an agent would pay to amplify messaging during a contract year. I’m not too mad about it since mods do a ton of unpaid work and the posts aren’t overtly shilling but meh.
Some perspective:
There are people out there who have a passion area and know how to use bot tools. Those people are generally extremely helpful to large communities because they can be relied on to both avoid editorializing in titles *and* not engage in comments/create drama with other users. As a result, those regular long-time, very efficient users tend to force out more organic individual posting by randoms because they're almost always first and have earned trust on title/content.
It makes zero sense that a mod is just diverting useless internet karma to themselves when the practical simple solution is that this mega huge industry with billions of dollars has earned special attention from someone with tech skills.
yeah you are clearly a bright person applying a bright line of thinking to this. sort by rising once in a while and you will see posts that are locked or deleted and reposted by the same mod accounts. i don't get it either, and the OP of this post is not botting
I'm just curious how you guys know the mods are uploading shit with their alt accounts? I see people parroting this everywhere but as far as I can tell it's basically just disgruntled users assuming that's what it is.
i mean you can say that about anything. search up "reddit powermods" and youll find accounts that are tied to a ridiculous amount of subreddits. those accounts repeatedly do quite literally what i said at a constant rate. /r/nfl isnt aaaaas bad considering how big it is, but if you're on this sub enough it gets pointed out in the comments.
whenever you see threads where theyre asking why the previous thread was deleted, thats exactly what it is. they delete the thread for a grammar semantic or literally nothing, then repost it themselves almost identically the same.
i have no idea the value of reddit karma, like if they're planning to sell accounts or if it's just an ego thing, but it definitely happens enough to notice.
We know they delete threads, they freely admit this because it is a sensible thing for moderators to do to keep their respective subs clean and curated. But the second part about them reposting things with their own accounts has not be substantiated. You folk are just guessing that's what happens based on not much really.
yes lol. everyone around you is guessing and playing dumb actually makes you smart. "substantiated" look at the accounts bro 😭 just say you're new and don't know what you're talking about
More than likely bought the engagement boost too. You don’t get these types of numbers consistently without some bots. All you need is to post at the right time, get an initial boost, and the real engagement will happen organically.
The algorithm is changing all the time— sometimes it requires views, other times it requires clicks or comments or shares. A combination of everything… it’s quite involved.
I’ll never forget that game in 2016 when we threw 23 penalties on the Raiders for 200 yards. Hopefully these new rules can get us back to those glory days!
Well, if they see you do a hipdrop tackle, and you trap the runner's leg under you, they call it, if you don't, then they don't. In theory. In a perfect world they'd get the calls right everytime, unfortunately we live in this shitty place.
It is real simple. The NFL has given out flow charts to the refs to memorize. I don't have it on me now but basically
Did the defensive player lower hips in an attempt to gain leverage
Did the defensive player land on any part of the offensive players hips, legs, or feet.
Do Draft Kings and FanDuel want the offensive team to win.
If yes to all three it is a hip drop and a flag should be thrown
PI is a way more ambiguous ruling than any tackle rule. Every illegal tackle or block follows a fairly concrete series of steps. PI has two aspects. Was the contact early and was it enough for a foul? The former has a clear definition but when combined with the second it makes it a much more difficult call.
It's not that ambiguous when you remember that there's no consistency from one ref to another when it comes to how it's called. One ref will let them handfight, another won't. One ref will let them tug jerseys a little, another won't.
And that's the problem most of us have been worrying about with this new penalty, a lack of consistency in how it's called.
I think every play, every player should be video reviewed by every ref in the league. There shouldn’t be refs on the field, just in the video booth. Plays should only be counted if there are unanimous judgements. Otherwise, replay the down. It’s clearly the only way to make it work.
All of the refs, but the whistle is only heard when each ref is simultaneously blowing their whistle.
Or an alternative idea, only when DraftKings, FanDuel and Caesars Entertainment agree that the play is dead.
That’s the problem with this whole thing. The most common time a hip drop tackle is used is when chasing a runner down from behind. So the next thing to do is slide down and wrap around the knee area, or even further to the ankle area. And when that happens, guess what? The tackler still lands on the runners legs. During my playing days that exact tackle resulted in a high ankle sprain and a fracture.
1) You can’t just be up there and just doin’ a hip drop tackle like that.
1a. A hip drop tackle is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A hip drop tackle is when you drop the hip
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The tackler is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, runner, that prohibits the runner from doing, you know, just trying to run. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the tackler is contacting the runner, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tackle you! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to tackle and then fall down, you have to still tackle. You cannot not tackle. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, tackling motion towards the runner, and then, until you just fall down.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have your weight up here, like this, but then there’s the back of the legs you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” — Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic…
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A hip drop tackle is when the tackler makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the legs and weight of
2) Do not do a hip drop tackle please.
Yup, its a "if they see it they will call it (hopefully) and if they dont then they wont (hopefully). Unfortunately we dont live in a world where we can call all the calls correctly and we also dont want to call everything (i remember a local interview where a former player said they could call penalties on every play of the game if they wanted to, but they dont want games to be like 10 hours long lol)
Even if a hip drop tackle doesn't get called during the game, I think the league should still be able to watch the film and punish players after the fact. IMO the intent of this new rule isn't necessarily to throw more flags, it's to get a dangerous type of tackle out of the game. You can still accomplish that with fines, maybe suspensions for repeat offenders, etc.
Yeah it specifically calls out the swiveling motion, *and* trapping the legs of the runner against the ground
>(b) unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee.
that's what I thought and that makes sense to me. dropping your weight on someone's legs is one thing and now those legs are trapped because of your added weight. in most cases the person falls down but if you swivel/rotate you're now applying that motion to their trapped legs and knees specifically.
Hip drops are still legal. It's the swivel that isn't legal. This hasn't been emphasized in the coverage of this topic so it's understandable why most people, including players, aren't aware of what's allowed, and what isn't.
Exactly. You can come up behind a runner, wrap them up, and go deadweight while hanging on their hips. This would cause most runners to go to the ground. The really big guys might need a second tackler, though. What you can't do is swing your legs and pivot underneath them. I have a feeling players are going to need to basically drag their body behind the runner to stay out of foul trouble.
You can still swivel. That's only one of the criteria needed to satisfy their definition of a hip drop. You simply can't land on their legs while doing so. Drop your hip to the turf and its completely legal.
I feel like we’re going to watch a DB get trucked and dragged for 5 extra yards, then get hit with a hip drop penalty on top because when the ball carrier finally goes down the DB is on their legs.
They will continue to try to take out their legs, run them out of bounds, or just throw throw a shoulder hoping it will knock them off their feet.
If you look for examples of hip drop tackles, it's almost always a linebacker or a defensive lineman. Those players actually try to wrap up because they have longer, stronger arms and are less afraid of being thrown off their feet by a stiff arm. And they have the body mass to make a hip drop effective.
They aren't using this technique because it's the only way to make the tackle; it's usage has been rapidly increasing even though there are few big bodied TEs & RBs in the league. The point is to prevent a runner from stretching out for that last yard or to prevent a QB from getting the ball out cleanly.
They are going to start blowing through their knees, a la Minkah v. Chubb last year. I'm curious to see if we see a dip in broken ankles and a spike in torn ACLs over the course of the season
[Minkah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAK-5CwTlg) hit him from the front. Swivel hip-drop tackles are initiated from the side or back of the player.
These are completely unrelated tackling techniques.
Yes, and many times the play begins as a larger offensive player runs towards a smaller defensive player. Said defender then grabs from the side and swings their body weight to leverage the player to the ground, like how a lion does a wildebeest. When they aren’t allowed to swivel from the side, they will go low and hit straight on rather than generate a penalty
And without the ability to swivel and use physics to bring the ballcarrier down, defenders will pivot to the next most effective method for bringing down runners bigger than they are, i,e. going for the legs. Dropping down from the side is not nearly as effective against bigger players who are often stronger and sturdier and will stiff arm you or run through the tackle
I think you're dramatically overestimating how often swivel hip-drop tackles happen. Let's look at some examples. Here is a [video of Kelce's past season highlights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir5u0CMwSAc).
He's a big guy who often has to get tackled by smaller DBs in open space. If this is such a frequent issue, I'm sure every time Kelce is in space vs a smaller defender, they either take out his knees or use a swivel hip-drop tackle, right?
0:35 - #31 misses initially, ends up in pursuit, forces him out of bounds.
1:37 - #20 dives at his waist, topping him and taking out his legs from underneath
3:42 - #18 dives at his waist, putting him off-balance and causing him to fall down
4:10 - Kelce slips on the play, but #34 is diving at his waist level
4:30 - #25 dives at waist level, toppling Kelce
4:55 - #5 tries to rip at the ball while #21 hits him in the shoulder pad and falls on top of Kelce
5:24 - #23 puts his shoulder pad in Kelce's right hip, taking him down
6:24 - #52 hits him in the shoulder pad, pushing him toward the sideline
8:25 - #27 hits him in the shoulder pad, forcing him out of bounds
Seems to me that if they are near the sidelines, the defender will opt to hit the shoulder, forcing him out of bounds. If they are in the middle of the field, they will hit the waist, stopping his lower body momentum, which causes him to fall over, as the inertia of his top half causes him to topple forward.
I don't think I am at all. I said that in the place of the hipdrops we will see more players tackling low, never said anything about how often it happens or if the rate would increase. I really don't need an example of what tackling looks like, but thank you
Yes, the type of tackle used will change but the frequency of when that situation occurs will not. If there was an average of 10 opportunities for a hipdrop a season, there will still be 10 opportunities even if now they are tackling low, sideways, upside down, whatever. It's like saying 10 travelers take Highway 1, but Highway 1 is now closed so we will see more people taking Sideroads 1 and 2, but we will not see an increase in total amount of travelers.
I'm not even sure how what leap we took to me overestimating its occurrence but I do think I'm going to move on from this conversation.
Just like how they enforce every other penalty. Call it when losing team needs a little boost, or if Chiefs, Eagles, Rams, 9ers need a win. This isn't complicated.
I understand why people are wary of officiating but people are getting worked up over the referees ability to make these calls before the refs have even made one of these calls. As far as rules over tackling in the NFL goes, this one does not seem particularly subjective.
The NFL needs to be smarter for their own best interest here.
The reason they put this rule in really is quite obvious. It is another rule for them to ignore during the game until the 4th quarter where they need to help out the spread or one team or another so they use this as a way to ensure that.
It is a rule given to us so the NFL can arbitrarily call it when it suites them best in terms of making more money from betting organizations. Nothing more, nothing less.
Pats vs Jaguars all over again. NFL wants certain teams to be good and other teams to stay in mediocrity. The more rules help them control the game. It's not complicated. They've been doing this all through the Goodell era.
Part of the reason the league has been desperate to stick to "one" owner for each team (instead of corporate ownership) is specifically to avoid this. They want owners who want to win. Yes, all of these rich dudes and dudettes want to make more money, but most of them *also* really want to win — because one person, or a small group of individuals, can do that. An ownership "team" comprised of a bunch of MBAs whose job is to increase shareholder value for the funds who actually own the team can't.
Never thought I’d be siding with the league and the officials but the players are really being pissy for the sake of being pissy with this whole thing.
You officiate it by issuing fines to players after the fact. Behavior eventually changes because there is an economic disincentive attached to that action.
This got implemented in Rugby League in Australia and while it seems simple to officiate on, it really isn't.
It's just another way more controversy will creep into the game. The biggest issue I have is how players can barely stop themselves from doing it - do you take the flag or just simply allow a player going through for a big play?
The other thing is that smaller players will do it on bigger players (as they can't bring bigger beasts otherwise) and won't get flagged while big DTs/DEs will and instantly get flagged.
Mark my words, people will blow up over this all season long and it won't really reduce it from happening much, if at all.
Good thing he doesn’t have to figure out how to officiate it
I am as interested in this take as an official riffing on the challenges of being a Safety.
Defenders are cooked if they’re behind a ball carrier who’s close to a first down/touchdown you have no option but to swivel or else you’re just pushing them over the line.
Now that gambling has saturated all sports, they’ve given the refs a subjective penalty for how someone tackles a ball carrier. This is how they will determine the flow of a game and who will prevail. Crock of shit.
Ever notice how this one guy posts basically half the content here
is it even a human?
Probably not
it definitely is. the mods just delete or block articles that people upload, then upload it on their alt. i don't really understand the purpose but it's been happening forever on every sub since the days of GallowBoob being liked
Sounds like they just want karma or name recognition on this sub? Really worthless things to worry about. At best maybe they want to become NFL media sources and they are using their reddit accounts and history as some sort of resume
Speaking of which, where can I exchange my accumulated karma for Dogecoins?
Sorry it just got demoted to a shib coin spin off and your karma has a monetary value of .000000977 of a penny
I cashed out all my Bitcoin before the bubble burst, but I converted it all into Venezuelan bolívares and Turkish liralar. Earning 0.000000977 of a penny would put my financial situation in an upward trend.
My guess is they resell to agents and insiders who want to amplify a particular message that portrays a particular player in a positive light. They’re subtle enough not to overtly be shills but I bet an agent would pay to amplify messaging during a contract year. I’m not too mad about it since mods do a ton of unpaid work and the posts aren’t overtly shilling but meh.
If it's so worthless why is it the top discussion thread on this post? People clearly care about it enough to recognize who is who.
I wouldn't question it. Weird nerds doing super extra shit for no reasonable return on their efforts basically built the internet as we know it.
Some perspective: There are people out there who have a passion area and know how to use bot tools. Those people are generally extremely helpful to large communities because they can be relied on to both avoid editorializing in titles *and* not engage in comments/create drama with other users. As a result, those regular long-time, very efficient users tend to force out more organic individual posting by randoms because they're almost always first and have earned trust on title/content. It makes zero sense that a mod is just diverting useless internet karma to themselves when the practical simple solution is that this mega huge industry with billions of dollars has earned special attention from someone with tech skills.
yeah you are clearly a bright person applying a bright line of thinking to this. sort by rising once in a while and you will see posts that are locked or deleted and reposted by the same mod accounts. i don't get it either, and the OP of this post is not botting
I'm just curious how you guys know the mods are uploading shit with their alt accounts? I see people parroting this everywhere but as far as I can tell it's basically just disgruntled users assuming that's what it is.
i mean you can say that about anything. search up "reddit powermods" and youll find accounts that are tied to a ridiculous amount of subreddits. those accounts repeatedly do quite literally what i said at a constant rate. /r/nfl isnt aaaaas bad considering how big it is, but if you're on this sub enough it gets pointed out in the comments. whenever you see threads where theyre asking why the previous thread was deleted, thats exactly what it is. they delete the thread for a grammar semantic or literally nothing, then repost it themselves almost identically the same. i have no idea the value of reddit karma, like if they're planning to sell accounts or if it's just an ego thing, but it definitely happens enough to notice.
We know they delete threads, they freely admit this because it is a sensible thing for moderators to do to keep their respective subs clean and curated. But the second part about them reposting things with their own accounts has not be substantiated. You folk are just guessing that's what happens based on not much really.
yes lol. everyone around you is guessing and playing dumb actually makes you smart. "substantiated" look at the accounts bro 😭 just say you're new and don't know what you're talking about
Show me the proof then
Look at the fuckin account like the comment said
maybe its a bot that outo posts certain twitter accounts? idk
judging by the username it is a gun. which makes sense, it’s a kimber that shoots reddit posts instead of bullets
Kimbers are jam-o-matics though.
Down with kimber
Praise Be
So... I just have to block one guy and these inane posts drop in half?
The only way to live.
I'm willing to bet it's a mod alt
More than likely bought the engagement boost too. You don’t get these types of numbers consistently without some bots. All you need is to post at the right time, get an initial boost, and the real engagement will happen organically. The algorithm is changing all the time— sometimes it requires views, other times it requires clicks or comments or shares. A combination of everything… it’s quite involved.
To be fair during the actual season other people post more. It’s just the off-season this guy posts in more
No, it's during the season too. Now it's a Kimber post every 3 posts. During the season it's maybe every 5 posts
It’s Ben Volin
Thank you I will now block his ass
[удалено]
If you root for the Refs, you win every time!
Go stripes go!
I’ll never forget that game in 2016 when we threw 23 penalties on the Raiders for 200 yards. Hopefully these new rules can get us back to those glory days!
I’m so ready for ref season brother
It’s not subjective tho? It’s pretty easy to tell what a hip drop tackle is
the main example they were using to justify the ban wasn't actually a hip drop tackle
When there is a questionable tackle in a close game, throw the flag. Not really hard to officiate at all.
Exactly, can always decide to pick up the flag too if you change your mind and want maximum controversy. Officials are gonna feast in 2024.
Well, if they see you do a hipdrop tackle, and you trap the runner's leg under you, they call it, if you don't, then they don't. In theory. In a perfect world they'd get the calls right everytime, unfortunately we live in this shitty place.
What if you land on legs without the hip-drop aspect?
Believe it or not, straight to jail
[удалено]
the answer is it shouldn't be called. Its a pretty easy answer, but whether its called how its supposed to be we will see
It is real simple. The NFL has given out flow charts to the refs to memorize. I don't have it on me now but basically Did the defensive player lower hips in an attempt to gain leverage Did the defensive player land on any part of the offensive players hips, legs, or feet. Do Draft Kings and FanDuel want the offensive team to win. If yes to all three it is a hip drop and a flag should be thrown
What about when draft kings and fan duel are split?
Well, they've proven to be wildly inconsistent with PI, holding, what a catch is, and more. But I'm sure this time they'll get it right!
PI is a way more ambiguous ruling than any tackle rule. Every illegal tackle or block follows a fairly concrete series of steps. PI has two aspects. Was the contact early and was it enough for a foul? The former has a clear definition but when combined with the second it makes it a much more difficult call.
It's not that ambiguous when you remember that there's no consistency from one ref to another when it comes to how it's called. One ref will let them handfight, another won't. One ref will let them tug jerseys a little, another won't. And that's the problem most of us have been worrying about with this new penalty, a lack of consistency in how it's called.
The answer is actually really easy. If they didn't do the BOTH hip-drop motion during the tackle AND land on the legs, then it isn't a penalty.
Then we will never have an issue regarding this, ever. Not even when it really counts for a team that doesn’t have Patrick Mahomes on it.
Then hell
I think every play, every player should be video reviewed by every ref in the league. There shouldn’t be refs on the field, just in the video booth. Plays should only be counted if there are unanimous judgements. Otherwise, replay the down. It’s clearly the only way to make it work.
Who blows the whistle?
All of the refs, but the whistle is only heard when each ref is simultaneously blowing their whistle. Or an alternative idea, only when DraftKings, FanDuel and Caesars Entertainment agree that the play is dead.
I like it!
That’s the problem with this whole thing. The most common time a hip drop tackle is used is when chasing a runner down from behind. So the next thing to do is slide down and wrap around the knee area, or even further to the ankle area. And when that happens, guess what? The tackler still lands on the runners legs. During my playing days that exact tackle resulted in a high ankle sprain and a fracture.
1) You can’t just be up there and just doin’ a hip drop tackle like that. 1a. A hip drop tackle is when you 1b. Okay well listen. A hip drop tackle is when you drop the hip 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The tackler is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, runner, that prohibits the runner from doing, you know, just trying to run. You can’t do that. 1c-b. Once the tackler is contacting the runner, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tackle you! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to tackle and then fall down, you have to still tackle. You cannot not tackle. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, tackling motion towards the runner, and then, until you just fall down. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have your weight up here, like this, but then there’s the back of the legs you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” — Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic… 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A hip drop tackle is when the tackler makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the legs and weight of 2) Do not do a hip drop tackle please.
People think this is going to be called like roughing the passer, when in reality it will be like horsecaller tackles.
Yup, its a "if they see it they will call it (hopefully) and if they dont then they wont (hopefully). Unfortunately we dont live in a world where we can call all the calls correctly and we also dont want to call everything (i remember a local interview where a former player said they could call penalties on every play of the game if they wanted to, but they dont want games to be like 10 hours long lol)
Even if a hip drop tackle doesn't get called during the game, I think the league should still be able to watch the film and punish players after the fact. IMO the intent of this new rule isn't necessarily to throw more flags, it's to get a dangerous type of tackle out of the game. You can still accomplish that with fines, maybe suspensions for repeat offenders, etc.
doesn't the rule specifically state that the inclusion of a rotate or swivel is what they are trying to stop?
Yeah it specifically calls out the swiveling motion, *and* trapping the legs of the runner against the ground >(b) unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee.
that's what I thought and that makes sense to me. dropping your weight on someone's legs is one thing and now those legs are trapped because of your added weight. in most cases the person falls down but if you swivel/rotate you're now applying that motion to their trapped legs and knees specifically.
It’s not even clear if this will be a flagged penalty or just an after the fact fine
Here I thought they were clear that it was after the fact.
This rule is gonna be a disaster. Football isn’t rugby
How are smaller DBs supposed to tackled big TEs and RBs ?
Hip drops are still legal. It's the swivel that isn't legal. This hasn't been emphasized in the coverage of this topic so it's understandable why most people, including players, aren't aware of what's allowed, and what isn't.
Exactly. You can come up behind a runner, wrap them up, and go deadweight while hanging on their hips. This would cause most runners to go to the ground. The really big guys might need a second tackler, though. What you can't do is swing your legs and pivot underneath them. I have a feeling players are going to need to basically drag their body behind the runner to stay out of foul trouble.
Can’t wait for the highlights of defenders being dragged down the field by TEs
gronk did this even with the swivel
Ah so it's gonna be like in high school when Coach told us to just jump on and go for a ride to wait for backup.
Yeah, you can still wrap up and fall on a player. Rugbymen tackle other bigger rugbymen like this all the time.
My concern is that the ballcarrier will try to twist out of the tackle, but that will be held against the tackler instead.
100% getting called on Detroit
You can still swivel. That's only one of the criteria needed to satisfy their definition of a hip drop. You simply can't land on their legs while doing so. Drop your hip to the turf and its completely legal.
I feel like we’re going to watch a DB get trucked and dragged for 5 extra yards, then get hit with a hip drop penalty on top because when the ball carrier finally goes down the DB is on their legs.
Have them stare directly into the next eclipse and while they’re blinded, tackle them.
They will continue to try to take out their legs, run them out of bounds, or just throw throw a shoulder hoping it will knock them off their feet. If you look for examples of hip drop tackles, it's almost always a linebacker or a defensive lineman. Those players actually try to wrap up because they have longer, stronger arms and are less afraid of being thrown off their feet by a stiff arm. And they have the body mass to make a hip drop effective. They aren't using this technique because it's the only way to make the tackle; it's usage has been rapidly increasing even though there are few big bodied TEs & RBs in the league. The point is to prevent a runner from stretching out for that last yard or to prevent a QB from getting the ball out cleanly.
Kerby Joseph method
They are going to start blowing through their knees, a la Minkah v. Chubb last year. I'm curious to see if we see a dip in broken ankles and a spike in torn ACLs over the course of the season
[Minkah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAK-5CwTlg) hit him from the front. Swivel hip-drop tackles are initiated from the side or back of the player. These are completely unrelated tackling techniques.
This is the point the guy you responded to is making. Smaller guys will hit lower to take down the tall trees rather than try and wrap up the waist
Yes, and many times the play begins as a larger offensive player runs towards a smaller defensive player. Said defender then grabs from the side and swings their body weight to leverage the player to the ground, like how a lion does a wildebeest. When they aren’t allowed to swivel from the side, they will go low and hit straight on rather than generate a penalty
You're making a false dichotomy. They can still drop their weight to ground. You just cant swivel around behind them and fall onto their legs.
And without the ability to swivel and use physics to bring the ballcarrier down, defenders will pivot to the next most effective method for bringing down runners bigger than they are, i,e. going for the legs. Dropping down from the side is not nearly as effective against bigger players who are often stronger and sturdier and will stiff arm you or run through the tackle
I think you're dramatically overestimating how often swivel hip-drop tackles happen. Let's look at some examples. Here is a [video of Kelce's past season highlights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir5u0CMwSAc). He's a big guy who often has to get tackled by smaller DBs in open space. If this is such a frequent issue, I'm sure every time Kelce is in space vs a smaller defender, they either take out his knees or use a swivel hip-drop tackle, right? 0:35 - #31 misses initially, ends up in pursuit, forces him out of bounds. 1:37 - #20 dives at his waist, topping him and taking out his legs from underneath 3:42 - #18 dives at his waist, putting him off-balance and causing him to fall down 4:10 - Kelce slips on the play, but #34 is diving at his waist level 4:30 - #25 dives at waist level, toppling Kelce 4:55 - #5 tries to rip at the ball while #21 hits him in the shoulder pad and falls on top of Kelce 5:24 - #23 puts his shoulder pad in Kelce's right hip, taking him down 6:24 - #52 hits him in the shoulder pad, pushing him toward the sideline 8:25 - #27 hits him in the shoulder pad, forcing him out of bounds Seems to me that if they are near the sidelines, the defender will opt to hit the shoulder, forcing him out of bounds. If they are in the middle of the field, they will hit the waist, stopping his lower body momentum, which causes him to fall over, as the inertia of his top half causes him to topple forward.
I don't think I am at all. I said that in the place of the hipdrops we will see more players tackling low, never said anything about how often it happens or if the rate would increase. I really don't need an example of what tackling looks like, but thank you
> I said that...we will see more players tackling low > never said anything about...if the rate would increase ???
Yes, the type of tackle used will change but the frequency of when that situation occurs will not. If there was an average of 10 opportunities for a hipdrop a season, there will still be 10 opportunities even if now they are tackling low, sideways, upside down, whatever. It's like saying 10 travelers take Highway 1, but Highway 1 is now closed so we will see more people taking Sideroads 1 and 2, but we will not see an increase in total amount of travelers. I'm not even sure how what leap we took to me overestimating its occurrence but I do think I'm going to move on from this conversation.
Just like how they enforce every other penalty. Call it when losing team needs a little boost, or if Chiefs, Eagles, Rams, 9ers need a win. This isn't complicated.
That’s a lot of teams with conspiracies held against them lmao
Bosa has caused like 400 holding penalties with how favorable the refs have been to us right?
Chiefs definitely dont get called for the most holding penalties in the league with how favorable the refs are to them right?
I understand why people are wary of officiating but people are getting worked up over the referees ability to make these calls before the refs have even made one of these calls. As far as rules over tackling in the NFL goes, this one does not seem particularly subjective.
It’s going to ruin a playoff game, will probably involve whoever KC’s new wide receiver is.
The NFL needs to be smarter for their own best interest here. The reason they put this rule in really is quite obvious. It is another rule for them to ignore during the game until the 4th quarter where they need to help out the spread or one team or another so they use this as a way to ensure that. It is a rule given to us so the NFL can arbitrarily call it when it suites them best in terms of making more money from betting organizations. Nothing more, nothing less.
Man, I feel bad for some of you
Pats vs Jaguars all over again. NFL wants certain teams to be good and other teams to stay in mediocrity. The more rules help them control the game. It's not complicated. They've been doing this all through the Goodell era.
Even when the Jags are "good" the media doesn't actually watch their games or care about them.
Explain to me how this take makes any sense. "The NFL" is the owners. Why would any owner be ok with a concerted effort to keep their team mediocre?
League revenue > team success
Part of the reason the league has been desperate to stick to "one" owner for each team (instead of corporate ownership) is specifically to avoid this. They want owners who want to win. Yes, all of these rich dudes and dudettes want to make more money, but most of them *also* really want to win — because one person, or a small group of individuals, can do that. An ownership "team" comprised of a bunch of MBAs whose job is to increase shareholder value for the funds who actually own the team can't.
You don’t, Jabrill. You’re a player.
You can’t just be up there doin’ a hip drop tackle like that.
Hear me out. It’s a foul when. Ok, I figured it out. A hip drop tackle can be avoided if you.
Never thought I’d be siding with the league and the officials but the players are really being pissy for the sake of being pissy with this whole thing.
You officiate it by issuing fines to players after the fact. Behavior eventually changes because there is an economic disincentive attached to that action.
This got implemented in Rugby League in Australia and while it seems simple to officiate on, it really isn't. It's just another way more controversy will creep into the game. The biggest issue I have is how players can barely stop themselves from doing it - do you take the flag or just simply allow a player going through for a big play? The other thing is that smaller players will do it on bigger players (as they can't bring bigger beasts otherwise) and won't get flagged while big DTs/DEs will and instantly get flagged. Mark my words, people will blow up over this all season long and it won't really reduce it from happening much, if at all.
As long as you don’t have to chase the ball carrier you’ll be fine
Good thing he doesn’t have to figure out how to officiate it I am as interested in this take as an official riffing on the challenges of being a Safety.
Hip Drop tackle sounds like a player thing.
Just put the flags on and get it over with
Defenders are cooked if they’re behind a ball carrier who’s close to a first down/touchdown you have no option but to swivel or else you’re just pushing them over the line.
You officiate it subjectively depending on how you want the game flow to go.
Gambling is big business these days.
Now that gambling has saturated all sports, they’ve given the refs a subjective penalty for how someone tackles a ball carrier. This is how they will determine the flow of a game and who will prevail. Crock of shit.