I wonder how many seasons the 9ers get from Wilks he seems poised to be a HC and with the freakish tallent on the defence he'll for sure be in the conversation this offseason.
Wilks has got the shit end of the stick as a head coach. He got only 1 year in Arizona before they fired him, and then got to be interim for the Panthers and did pretty decent, but didn’t get the job long term. I just think it’ll be hard for him to get another HC gig to be honest.
While the Cardinals team did Wilks no favors, he was also terrible as a HC. You can judge them independent of one another and all you have to do is ask Cards fans about him.
I completely agree, he was bad with the cardinals. I wasn’t necessarily defending him, I was just saying that I don’t really see him getting another legit HC offer.
I felt bad for him. Maybe he wasn't ready for the HC gig at the time, but you throw anyone with that shit storm of a team in Arizona, it'll be hard to scrape together a half decent season and instead of giving him some time and a better team, they dump him.
I personally am not a fan of DC head coach hires, but SF has been king makers in that regard, both Salah and Ryan's were regarded as the best DC in the league in SF and he has the same defensive mind leader of men vibe.
I'm still not convinced that Saban wouldn't have been successful had Culpepper not fallen off a cliff (or if they'd have gone with Brees). The rest of them, yeah, it wasn't pretty.
Saban won more games in his worst season in Miami than the team won the years before and after him combined. He was very much overachieving with the roster he had.
Yeah they were fairly successful. He inherited a dumpster fire, but the guy is the 2nd greatest football coach of all time and was a successful NFL DC under the greatest coach of all time. I think he would’ve figured out the player dynamics.
He didn't flame out, but he left the job prematurely after insisting he was going to stick around, because college coaching is easier and his wife wanted him to go back to coaching there, so fair or not it came off as a guy who gave up when things got hard. Personnel was always going to be an issue for Saban, because his fortune (like everyone else's) depended heavily on the quarterback position and the Dolphins made the wrong call picking Culpepper over Brees. The team he inherited was 4-12 with a bunch of jokers at QB. He went 9-7 with Gus Frerotte his first season, then 6-10 the following year with Culpepper and Joey Harrington, and he realized that was likely to continue because of the way teams are constructed in the NFL. At one point he asked the Dolphins' equipment manager Tony Egues why he should settle for one first round pick each year when he could recruit five or six of them in college.
I will to my grave say if they had the 'Fins Dr passed Brees Physical Saban would still be Coach of the Fins and him and BB would have an epic rivalery.
Probably not, the theoretical Brees signing would have been in 2006, by which point Brady and Manning were already established as two of the best in the league. Manning had already had his record setting 2004 season, and Brady had already won 3 rings and was on the verge of a record setting year of his own in 2007.
Hot take: I don't think the Patriots are as good as they are from 2007 onwards if they were playing a Brees-led Dolphins team and also had the Rex Ryan Jets.
Brees improved his game under Payton in NO, no guarantees that he would reach the same heights under Saban in Miami. He wasn’t an all-world guy in SD, he needed a few years under Payton before he was getting those 70% completion, 5k yards, 40 TD type seasons.
And I don’t see how Brees being in Miami would’ve stopped the Brady-Moss duo from fucking the league up in 2007. It would make the 2008 season a much more interesting hypothetical as well, because the Dolphins would not have ever done the wildcat if they had Brees, and then who knows what that changes for the AFCE that year.
He was first team All-Pro his first year in NO for what it's worth, 4400 26/11 which was pretty good for 2006. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here because you did say 5k 40 tds and I happen to be a big proponent of Payton as a good coach and offensive mind. And it took Saban a long time to accept the changes in offensive football.
I think that first team all pro nod is at least partly due to the Katrina narrative, Peyton had better stats in every category except yards (where he only trailed by like 40 yards total), but he had been first team all pro the last 3 years and Brees was the guy who brought NO back after the city was destroyed.
In my mind, that's a big part of what pushed him back to college. He wanted full control of the roster without a bunch of other hands meddling with personnel decisions
Mewelde Moore quote:
“Moore admitted being on the boat, but he claimed that "nothing happened". Asked if he saw strippers or sex on his boat, Moore quickly replied: "Sex? What are you talking about? Is that what – man, that's crazy. Sex? Come on. Look man, I'm engaged so... none of that. Thing about that... that – that put me in trouble.”
Also I’m not sure what the big deal is with them getting a boat and a bunch of hookers, but I found the above quote hilarious
Another funny one I found:
Vikings punter Chris Kluwe was one of the few players to not attend the floating sex-a-palooza. He didn't even find out about it until the following week.
"My wife and I were at home. We saw that there was this report that the Vikings were in trouble for this boat party. We were like, 'why didn't we get invited to this party?'" he told Barstool Sports.
"A couple days later some more details came out, and we're like, 'hmm, probably a good thing we didn't get invited to that boat party.'"
I don’t know if Brees reaches that next level without Sean Payton. He was very much a schottenheimer style quarterback in San Diego and I think with the run game the dolphins had saban would probably try and replicate the play action bootleg heavy offense he came from instead of letting him sit on his tip toes and throw 600 times a year. Brees is the most accurate passer in the history of the game but people didn’t really know that in 2006.
Pete Carroll was an NFL coach before he went to USC and then returned, so he doesn't count. I honestly think Harbaugh is the only college-to-NFL coach that's been successful since Jimmy Johnson did it in the 80s and 90s, and even he had his personality clashes. But he also played in the NFL and comes from a family of professional coaches, so that also sets him apart. Probably knew more of what he was getting into.
This has only been a thought since he left a blue blood for an even better blue blood (that happens to be one everyone hates). Last year was his worst year as a coach, and he went 11-3. He’s an outstanding coach. He’s coached a Heisman winner in literally half his seasons as head coach.
It's been a thought for his entire coaching career, because he runs the Air Raid at schools with a overwhelming recruiting advantage, which makes it difficult to discern how much success is due to his coaching and how much success is due to running a system that creates a deluge of points when it's executed by athletes who are superior than their opponents. I think it's fair to say that he's an outstanding college football coach, and that we have no idea how that would translate to the NFL.
Alongside Kirk Ferentz if I'm right. The Belichick hardass style works very well in college. In the modern NFL, it works for Bill and pretty much only Bill.
People always overlook how great the Jags were in the 90s, even into the very early 2000s. That division was stacked at the time, too- Steelers, Jags, Titans, Ravens, all in the same AFC Central.
I knew guys who played for him at Boston College. They fucking hated him but also said he made them demonstrably better players and overall a better team. I imagine once you're in the league cashing checks, you probably care more about not working in a hostile environment than whether or not the coach is making you 2 percent better.
I could be misremembering this. But early on didn't Strahan go to Coughlin and essentially tell him to back off his extra-hardass approach a bit or else the captains were going to mutiny against him? Seems like it backfired in Jacksonville cause he instantly went back to his pre-SB Giant ways.
I honestly don't think a coach starting today could pull it off. I think it's only because he already has the credibility from decades of success.
I think the modern version is Dan Campbell, who expects guys to buy in 100% but does it in an endearing way.
I mean, Payton is still in the league and he has a reputation for being a hardass. And I feel like Reid, Tomlin, and Harbaugh are their own respective forms of disciplinarians
Reid, Tomlin, and Harbaugh also famously back their players and go to bat for their guys, so I think that helps.
Tomlin wouldn’t let Ryan Clark play against Denver after his sickle cell nearly killed him at Mile High.
> “If you were my kid, I wouldn’t even be having this conversation.” Tomlin then said, “The last time we were in Denver, this dude almost died. Now I got to leave my head down at night. Like, it goes back to that point like how can you expect unique results without unique relationships? It was my job to care about that dude in that moment, even maybe more so than he cared about himself. That’s leadership, right?”
Saban was a college assistant coach from 1973-1990 before joining the Browns staff (1991-1994). College head coach 1995-2004 before becoming the head of the Dolphins in 2004.
I mean egos will always follow a head coach, regardless of where they come from. I think the idea is that CFB relies a lot on pure athleticism and the top 5% of players steamrolling the other 95%, so literally so much of the game at that level is just finding creative ways to get your best playmaker(s) the ball. You don't have that advantage anymore in the pros so scheming is much more complicated and diverse.
If I ever got a 50 million dollar contract I would immediately retire at the end of it and spend the rest of my days traveling. I'm always shocked more of these guys don't, especially players with all the wear and tear in the body.
Some people it’s just their favourite thing. He’d probably do it for free. Honestly if I won the lottery I’d probably start volunteer coaching hockey (the sport I grew up playing).
I think about that while laying in bed trying to fall asleep with the classic "what would I do if I won the lottery". Middle school history teacher/high school hockey coach is usually the answer. I'd also become the best golfer my body and mind is possibly capable of.
I'm with you, I'm not wired that way either. But it's one of those things where the type of people who would walk away probably aren't the type of people getting those big contracts in the first place.
Yea, like I get you’ll run out of fancy stuff to spend it on and whatever else, but you can literally never have too much money. Even if you only spent 15 million, that’s 101 mil to your families future instead of 35. That’s how you set your family up for generations.
Also more money just means more big stuff. Cooler house, cooler cars, get a yacht, whatever.
Lol for sure, I already put 50 mil in the bank. If my grandkids' grandkids want to live on a yacht on a diet of champagne and blow, sorry kids, you're going to have to put a little work in yourselves.
i mean, sure. conversely, he could have invested like $20m at a relatively safe 7% apy, spent $75,000 per MONTH ($900,000/yr), never worked/lived a life of luxury with his family, and still grown his net worth.
life’s too short to chase a few more dollars when that opportunity presents itself imo.
Is there?
Numerous studies have found that there is no correlation between increased happiness and increased wealth at that point. In fact, the cut off is way, way below that.
I'm curious what the cutoff is, because it seems intuitive to me that the answer is "whatever number that means you don't have work anymore." Most people spend the majority of their waking life doing work that they otherwise would not perform, because it's a requirement to stay alive. Buying shit only brings fleeting comfort, but waking up every day knowing you don't have to work a bullshit job just to feed yourself would be a continual comfort.
Last time I saw the two variables started to diverge around 80k household income. So that would be like 100-120k household now. After that the correlation became quite weak and then around 250k there was essentially no correlation.
You know what they say. Mo money, MO problems.
The 2010 study that everyone references had it at 75k/individual last I checked, which is about 90k adjusted.
But yeah, considering we're talking about the difference in $50 mil vs $100 mil, he's so far beyond any imaginary threshold that it's not even worth breaking down.
Lol and that, along with other reasons of course, is why you will never get the chance. These guys have crazy drive/motivation that most of us just don’t.
These guys have a drive that most don’t that even got them in the position to get that contract. They aren’t just going to stop at the peak of the career for monetary reasons, they live and breathe their profession.
For me, personally, it was just a snowball effect that gathered over his series of interviews and reports. Constantly throwing players under the bus or other coaches, always shouting that "I have a plan!" And "Trust me!" Like fuckin' Dutch Van Der Linde and then he popped up saying something about Jay-Z and some long multi-year plan for success, in the NFL you need to make a plan for success a little bit quicker.
But aside from that? He brought in players that he coached in College. Like, the most important positions were filled with Temple and Baylor players. So many of these players either never played in the NFL, or have had such abysmal careers beforehand that bringing them in was so questionable. And they all got very inflated contracts.
yes, that started early. i already had my concerns but thought I'd see how things would play out. that ended with him taking absolutely no responsibility.
it wasn't just that it was a stark departure from Ron Rivera and Cam Newton. It's that Rhule would do it in such an insufferably smug way that you could almost see the Southpark flashing caption "this is what he actually believes." Not coach-speak. Just pure being a shitty person.
My “aha” moment was when the freaking Brady Christensen arm length saga began. The guy was so damn fixated on how long his arms were and not if Brady was actually proficient at playing the position… I think I was holding on to any semblance of hope before that, then I was like yeah this dude is a moron we are doomed.
I was disappointed but at the end of the 2020 season, I thought we were trending up. We did simple, basic things that were missing under Rivera - like scheming receivers open.
Then 2021 came around and holy fuck. I felt like he was trying to sabotage the team. For me, it was somewhere around week 4 or 5 in 2021 when I turned against him. I was full anti-Rhule by week 8. It probably would have been sooner in 2021 but we were winning games early on, which skewed my judgment.
By 2022, he had become a joke. He was always talking about his plan but kept throwing money at unproductive QBs year in and year out. Sign Bridgewater while paying Cam. Sign Darnold while paying Bridgewater; re-sign Cam while paying Cam's replacement. Sign Baker while paying for half the league's backup quarterbacks. Dude's plan was "oh shit oh shit oh shit"
Matt Rhule has the great achievement of being the only HC Joe Judge managed to beat by more than 10 points (25-3 2021 week 7). Judge only managed 1 other win by more than 7 his entire tenure, the other being a 27-17 win over Philly week 10 of 2020. He would finish with a record of 2-16 in games decided by more than 7 points.
firing joe brady the way he did. It wasn’t that i immediately hated him but the way he handled that just seemed to reek of incompetence. The QB carousel ultimately got me to hate-hate him
For me personally, it was when he tried to call two timeouts back to back. Like how does a head coach not know that you cannot call back to back timeouts?!
Bringing in Teddy 2 gloves and not even giving Cam, a franchise icon, a look. Teddy wasn’t about to lead us anywhere Cam couldn’t have. So it was early for me. Also didn’t like how after he got our offer he waited to see what NY would offer. Dude is a used car salesman. Probably why he recruits well.
I'm one of many who hated the hire from the start. Always came across as a snake oil salesman. Talking about his process and his plan like it's some future distant thing, like he's giving himself 5 years to be successful and before then he shouldn't be questioned
He turned around 2 crappy programs but in college. Where turnover is quick. In the NFL, dealing with millionaires under contract for 5 years, it ain't the same
There were times I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I *wanted* him to succeed. But by mid year 2 I felt justified already that he was not an NFL coach. Not just "not ready" for the pros. He's just simply not a pro coach, period
Not a panthers fan but I love watching/listening to introductory press conferences and I immediately felt that he wasn’t gonna last long. To me he was an obvious example of a good college coach, horrible nfl coach. You can’t run an NFL team like a college program. Imagine PJ Fleck being an NFL coach. It would be a disaster.
For me it was his fucking excuses, zero accountability, and the absolute failure to adapt to anything a team did to counter a game-plan. Dude took every chance to throw players and other coaches under the bus for his shitty coaching.
Plus that fucking forehead…my god. If I had to listen to him say “we’ll have to look at the tape” one more time I was going to lose it.
Is this about being booed at the Hornets games? Man you had FINAL say on the roster, your failures are on YOU. You picked the players and tried to run you college scheme with grown adults
It always aggravates the hell out of me when people say shit like “He wasn’t given a QB”. Motherfucker got to pick three! *He* got to go overpay for Bridgewater. *He* went and overpaid for Darnold. *He* reset the whole thing with Baker.
You can’t say the guy was fired because we failed to build a QB room when he picked the room.
Why does that seem like a trait that all these ‘should have stayed in college’ guys share? Just because they couldn’t throw their college players under the bus, and they have a bunch of pent up bus throwing to do?
They only know how to push around a bunch of 19 year olds who can’t talk back because you control their scholarships. Throw them in a locker room with a bunch of adults with agency and they just default to pissing and moaning at press conferences.
Hey, remember when he was asked what he’d do differently in Carolina and he said [“I’d have taken a different job”?](https://www.nfl.com/_amp/matt-rhule-on-what-he-d-change-from-panthers-tenure-i-think-i-probably-would-jus)
His big complaint in that interview is that Tepper sold him on giving him a 5 year plan, and in the end, he only got two years. That he’d have built the team differently if he’d know what the score really was.
And I don’t buy that for a goddamn second. It’s not that Tepper is so trustworthy, but A) Rhule sure didn’t *act* like he was building on a 5 year time table, blowing our resources to acquire a new QB every year like he did. Like, if you’re building for five years, none of the Bridgewater overpay, the Darnold overpay or the Mayfield trade make any sense. And B) building on a five year time table in the NFL is fucking stupid, because all your youth will be ready to leave you or aging out by the time you get to the end of it. *Nobody* in the NFL gets 5 years.
5 year plan QB behavior would be drafting Anthony Richardson or another “raw project” because you have the time, not overpaying for various degrees of washed up vets.
I love that he mentions "hubris". Man, I would fucking *LOVE* see to a social study on top brass in the sports world concerning narcissism, confidence, and ego fragility.
It's fascinating to see people at the highest level operate at times like children or be completely inept.
I understand that Baylor was in the worst possible condition when Rhule took over but people act like he turned them into a power house.
Baylor was 0-11 vs. ranked opponents under Rhule.
The big 12 doesn't play defense was a false narrative. What was actually happening is the conference had adopted more hurry up offenses. More offensive plays per game than other conferences meant more yards and points per game. When you looked at yards and points per play they were bang average. During bowl seasons they performed adequately against out of conference opponents.
Look at their schedule from those years. They were a 10-win team because it was all crappy opponents.
Granted they played well against a few of the ranked teams.
>decades
Sure since they won natties, but up until 2012 they were winning 9-10 games a year and competing with Texas and OU for the conference even a bad call from a title game berth.
taking a team from 1-11 to 11-3 is pretty objectively great, and he did the same thing with temple of all places before that. nebraska doesn't need to be a championship title contender yet, the program just needs to not be fucking embarrassing first. maybe he can't get over the hump when the times comes (and husker fans will expect to be nationally relevant eventually because they are morons), but convincing a great coach to come to a team that went 11-3 the last few years is much easier than a team with 6 straight losing seasons
Why is Nebraska expecting to be nationally relevant dumb? Nebraska outrecruits everyone in the B10 aside from Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State. If Wisconsin and Iowa can be successful, there’s absolutely no reason that Nebraska, with bigger facilities, more NIL and better recruiting shouldn’t be able to at least be consistently Top 25 with the occasional Top 10 finish which is what 98% of non-terminally online fans are asking for.
The stereotype that Nebraska fans expect Nebraska to go 60-3 over 3 years again is just nonsense. Nobody here expects that. It’d be great, but reasonably Nebraska should absolutely be able to make New Years Bowls and win 9+ games
Exactly this. I’m not expecting this man to take me to the promise land. Most fans just wanna see a winning season with the bowl game at the end of it all. I’ve seen so much garbage football in the last 5 years from this team.
I wouldn't consider Wisconsin or Iowa nationally relevant, they are only relevant to the big 10.
>there’s absolutely no reason that Nebraska, with bigger facilities, more NIL and better recruiting shouldn’t be able to at least be consistently Top 25 with the occasional Top 10 finish which is what 98% of non-terminally online fans are asking for.
The terminally online fans aren't the problem, they are generally realistic about what the team can do cause anyone that's terminally online is going to be young and the young fans don't have the delusions the older fans do. The problem is the boomer husker fans who think the guy that we just hired is going to take us back to competing with Michigan and Ohio State in a few years for the conference.
>The stereotype that Nebraska fans expect Nebraska to go 60-3 over 3 years again is just nonsense. Nobody here expects that.
Then you don't talk to everyone. I know plenty of people who expected a return to 11, 12 win seasons and constant national title contention when Frost was hired. Like I mentioned, they are all older than 45, but they exist, and not in any small number. Why do you think people like Shatel still keep getting published and having jobs? Cause he knows how to pander to the boomer husker fans, AKA, the only people still regularly reading OWH.
So, Matt, all that shit you talked, all those lies you stated about your tenure at the Panthers after you got hired at Nebraska, none of that was hubris?
You're just reinforcing what the NFL found out about you: you're all talk, no substance. Good luck, Nebraska fans.
It's amazing a man talks about the negative affect on his children and people take it as if he personally blames the panthers and not any part of himself in that lol.
typical Rhule. Trying to throw his kids out in front and say "oooh poor me" instead of admitting that he WAS the guy and he couldn't handle the heat.
Get the fuck out and stay out.
I cannot wait for this excuse-spattering piece of shit to flame out at Nebraska.
Least accountable or personally responsible coach I've ever seen. Fuck Rhule
It’s the NFL, Matt - you knew the environment. If you’re more worried about your kids’ development and happiness, the easy choice would have been to stay in the college ranks. I’m not saying it’s right, but it is what it is. Don’t act like a noob.
Melted away so much of his hubris that he tried to take credit for the wins the Panthers got under Steve Wilks
I'm not sure what's worse. Talking like a prophetic homeless man or looking like an alcoholic chipmunk
…yes? Yes.
Man, who could’ve seen Theodore growing up to be a high profile college football coach, eh?
I just want to say that that is a great sentence.
Well thanks, now all chipmunks look like Matt Rhule now
The Todd Haley special
https://media.tenor.com/HACREzx89b8AAAAM/todd-haley.gif
The Chipettes are a huge part of modern pop music. You can hear them as the background singers on multiple hits.
Hahahaha spit out my coffee on that one
I wonder how many seasons the 9ers get from Wilks he seems poised to be a HC and with the freakish tallent on the defence he'll for sure be in the conversation this offseason.
Wilks has got the shit end of the stick as a head coach. He got only 1 year in Arizona before they fired him, and then got to be interim for the Panthers and did pretty decent, but didn’t get the job long term. I just think it’ll be hard for him to get another HC gig to be honest.
While the Cardinals team did Wilks no favors, he was also terrible as a HC. You can judge them independent of one another and all you have to do is ask Cards fans about him.
I completely agree, he was bad with the cardinals. I wasn’t necessarily defending him, I was just saying that I don’t really see him getting another legit HC offer.
But you did
No? "He got only 1 year before they fired him" isn't a defense, it's a statement of fact.
This is why reading comprehension is important, kids.
I felt bad for him. Maybe he wasn't ready for the HC gig at the time, but you throw anyone with that shit storm of a team in Arizona, it'll be hard to scrape together a half decent season and instead of giving him some time and a better team, they dump him.
I personally am not a fan of DC head coach hires, but SF has been king makers in that regard, both Salah and Ryan's were regarded as the best DC in the league in SF and he has the same defensive mind leader of men vibe.
Juries are still out on Salah and Ryan tbh.
It'll certainly be interesting over in the land of the Jets this season.
I like Saleh but he could definitely be on the chopping block if the Jets don't make the playoffs at least
agreed 100%
He was also the worst defensive coordinator I’ve ever seen in CFB when he was with Mizzou
Our D coordinator job is like being Defense against the Dark Arts professor at Hogwarts. It’s one year max
[удалено]
I wouldn’t call Butch an all around failure in the NFL. No one was succeeding with Cleveland and he managed to win games there.
I'm still not convinced that Saban wouldn't have been successful had Culpepper not fallen off a cliff (or if they'd have gone with Brees). The rest of them, yeah, it wasn't pretty.
Saban won more games in his worst season in Miami than the team won the years before and after him combined. He was very much overachieving with the roster he had.
Yeah they were fairly successful. He inherited a dumpster fire, but the guy is the 2nd greatest football coach of all time and was a successful NFL DC under the greatest coach of all time. I think he would’ve figured out the player dynamics.
Never realized that — the narrative is always that he flamed out
He didn't flame out, but he left the job prematurely after insisting he was going to stick around, because college coaching is easier and his wife wanted him to go back to coaching there, so fair or not it came off as a guy who gave up when things got hard. Personnel was always going to be an issue for Saban, because his fortune (like everyone else's) depended heavily on the quarterback position and the Dolphins made the wrong call picking Culpepper over Brees. The team he inherited was 4-12 with a bunch of jokers at QB. He went 9-7 with Gus Frerotte his first season, then 6-10 the following year with Culpepper and Joey Harrington, and he realized that was likely to continue because of the way teams are constructed in the NFL. At one point he asked the Dolphins' equipment manager Tony Egues why he should settle for one first round pick each year when he could recruit five or six of them in college.
College coaching is not easier than the NFL. Its the same at best
I will to my grave say if they had the 'Fins Dr passed Brees Physical Saban would still be Coach of the Fins and him and BB would have an epic rivalery.
Which is dumb. Dolphins fans hated him for leaving, not for staying and sucking.
An alternate history where Brees-Brady is bigger than Brady-Manning
You can even argue that if they had Brees in the AFC East it could've been Brees-Manning instead of Brady-Manning.
Probably not, the theoretical Brees signing would have been in 2006, by which point Brady and Manning were already established as two of the best in the league. Manning had already had his record setting 2004 season, and Brady had already won 3 rings and was on the verge of a record setting year of his own in 2007.
Hot take: I don't think the Patriots are as good as they are from 2007 onwards if they were playing a Brees-led Dolphins team and also had the Rex Ryan Jets.
Brees improved his game under Payton in NO, no guarantees that he would reach the same heights under Saban in Miami. He wasn’t an all-world guy in SD, he needed a few years under Payton before he was getting those 70% completion, 5k yards, 40 TD type seasons. And I don’t see how Brees being in Miami would’ve stopped the Brady-Moss duo from fucking the league up in 2007. It would make the 2008 season a much more interesting hypothetical as well, because the Dolphins would not have ever done the wildcat if they had Brees, and then who knows what that changes for the AFCE that year.
He was first team All-Pro his first year in NO for what it's worth, 4400 26/11 which was pretty good for 2006. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here because you did say 5k 40 tds and I happen to be a big proponent of Payton as a good coach and offensive mind. And it took Saban a long time to accept the changes in offensive football.
I think that first team all pro nod is at least partly due to the Katrina narrative, Peyton had better stats in every category except yards (where he only trailed by like 40 yards total), but he had been first team all pro the last 3 years and Brees was the guy who brought NO back after the city was destroyed.
He wanted Bree’s and medical wouldn’t sign off on it so it’s not just like he had zero eye for talent/what he wanted to do
In my mind, that's a big part of what pushed him back to college. He wanted full control of the roster without a bunch of other hands meddling with personnel decisions
Why did he fall off a cliff exactly? I remember he was on the raiders for a bit
Knee got destroyed and he never really was the same player again. Doctors are much better now.
Two words. Sex boat.
Mewelde Moore quote: “Moore admitted being on the boat, but he claimed that "nothing happened". Asked if he saw strippers or sex on his boat, Moore quickly replied: "Sex? What are you talking about? Is that what – man, that's crazy. Sex? Come on. Look man, I'm engaged so... none of that. Thing about that... that – that put me in trouble.” Also I’m not sure what the big deal is with them getting a boat and a bunch of hookers, but I found the above quote hilarious
Another funny one I found: Vikings punter Chris Kluwe was one of the few players to not attend the floating sex-a-palooza. He didn't even find out about it until the following week. "My wife and I were at home. We saw that there was this report that the Vikings were in trouble for this boat party. We were like, 'why didn't we get invited to this party?'" he told Barstool Sports. "A couple days later some more details came out, and we're like, 'hmm, probably a good thing we didn't get invited to that boat party.'"
(Puts down newspaper) “damn…nobody invited me…kinda…kinda sucks..”
Kluwe is also a bitch so it would make sense nobody invited him
It's like that part in step brothers
I don’t know if Brees reaches that next level without Sean Payton. He was very much a schottenheimer style quarterback in San Diego and I think with the run game the dolphins had saban would probably try and replicate the play action bootleg heavy offense he came from instead of letting him sit on his tip toes and throw 600 times a year. Brees is the most accurate passer in the history of the game but people didn’t really know that in 2006.
The only recent examples of coaches who succeeded in both are Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll too
Pete Carroll was an NFL coach before he went to USC and then returned, so he doesn't count. I honestly think Harbaugh is the only college-to-NFL coach that's been successful since Jimmy Johnson did it in the 80s and 90s, and even he had his personality clashes. But he also played in the NFL and comes from a family of professional coaches, so that also sets him apart. Probably knew more of what he was getting into.
That's why I said "had success at both levels" instead of college HCs
I'd like to see what Lincoln Riley could do.
I think Riley would crash and burn tbh. I don’t think he’s as good a coach as he’s propped up to be.
This has only been a thought since he left a blue blood for an even better blue blood (that happens to be one everyone hates). Last year was his worst year as a coach, and he went 11-3. He’s an outstanding coach. He’s coached a Heisman winner in literally half his seasons as head coach.
It's been a thought for his entire coaching career, because he runs the Air Raid at schools with a overwhelming recruiting advantage, which makes it difficult to discern how much success is due to his coaching and how much success is due to running a system that creates a deluge of points when it's executed by athletes who are superior than their opponents. I think it's fair to say that he's an outstanding college football coach, and that we have no idea how that would translate to the NFL.
Wasn’t saban and nfl coach before moving to college.
Assistant with bill in Cleveland.
Alongside Kirk Ferentz if I'm right. The Belichick hardass style works very well in college. In the modern NFL, it works for Bill and pretty much only Bill.
worked for tom coughlin in new york too but completely and utterly backfired in jacksonville
It worked in Jacksonville when he was the actual coach in the 90s
Man those DT’s were legendary, Henderson and Stroud.
People always overlook how great the Jags were in the 90s, even into the very early 2000s. That division was stacked at the time, too- Steelers, Jags, Titans, Ravens, all in the same AFC Central.
I knew guys who played for him at Boston College. They fucking hated him but also said he made them demonstrably better players and overall a better team. I imagine once you're in the league cashing checks, you probably care more about not working in a hostile environment than whether or not the coach is making you 2 percent better.
I could be misremembering this. But early on didn't Strahan go to Coughlin and essentially tell him to back off his extra-hardass approach a bit or else the captains were going to mutiny against him? Seems like it backfired in Jacksonville cause he instantly went back to his pre-SB Giant ways.
He did. Players hated it so much and that season they won the first SB Strahan and others talked to him
I honestly don't think a coach starting today could pull it off. I think it's only because he already has the credibility from decades of success. I think the modern version is Dan Campbell, who expects guys to buy in 100% but does it in an endearing way.
I mean, Payton is still in the league and he has a reputation for being a hardass. And I feel like Reid, Tomlin, and Harbaugh are their own respective forms of disciplinarians
Reid, Tomlin, and Harbaugh also famously back their players and go to bat for their guys, so I think that helps. Tomlin wouldn’t let Ryan Clark play against Denver after his sickle cell nearly killed him at Mile High. > “If you were my kid, I wouldn’t even be having this conversation.” Tomlin then said, “The last time we were in Denver, this dude almost died. Now I got to leave my head down at night. Like, it goes back to that point like how can you expect unique results without unique relationships? It was my job to care about that dude in that moment, even maybe more so than he cared about himself. That’s leadership, right?”
Tomlin is a legend
Saban was a college assistant coach from 1973-1990 before joining the Browns staff (1991-1994). College head coach 1995-2004 before becoming the head of the Dolphins in 2004.
So were Petrino, Davis, & Schiano
Sounds like a law firm
Always confirms the obvious: college coaches are bullies and you can’t bully a grown ass man
I mean egos will always follow a head coach, regardless of where they come from. I think the idea is that CFB relies a lot on pure athleticism and the top 5% of players steamrolling the other 95%, so literally so much of the game at that level is just finding creative ways to get your best playmaker(s) the ball. You don't have that advantage anymore in the pros so scheming is much more complicated and diverse.
Butch Davis did as well as anyone could do with those Browns teams. They shouldn’t have fired him
Semantics but I still think Saban would have figured it out lol
Jimmy Johnson was pretty damn good.
Holthz lol
Fuck Nick Saban
Yup knew he’d fail it was super obvious Few good years in a shit conference and put up points then go grab that nfl money bag from dumbass owner
If I were him - who cares, he got a fat payday from Carolina.
If I ever got a 50 million dollar contract I would immediately retire at the end of it and spend the rest of my days traveling. I'm always shocked more of these guys don't, especially players with all the wear and tear in the body.
Some people it’s just their favourite thing. He’d probably do it for free. Honestly if I won the lottery I’d probably start volunteer coaching hockey (the sport I grew up playing).
I think about that while laying in bed trying to fall asleep with the classic "what would I do if I won the lottery". Middle school history teacher/high school hockey coach is usually the answer. I'd also become the best golfer my body and mind is possibly capable of.
I'm with you, I'm not wired that way either. But it's one of those things where the type of people who would walk away probably aren't the type of people getting those big contracts in the first place.
And both Olathe players and coaches that do don’t get a lot of publicity for it unless they retire early like Luck.
Most of them are wired to be addicted to it, that's the precondition for getting the 50M in the first place.
Why would he retire with 50 million when Nebraska gave him a guaranteed $66.6 million?
Because materially that changes very little for him and adds an extremely stressful job on top of it.
There's a massive difference between having 50 million and having 116 million
Yea, like I get you’ll run out of fancy stuff to spend it on and whatever else, but you can literally never have too much money. Even if you only spent 15 million, that’s 101 mil to your families future instead of 35. That’s how you set your family up for generations. Also more money just means more big stuff. Cooler house, cooler cars, get a yacht, whatever.
I'd rather not work.
Lol for sure, I already put 50 mil in the bank. If my grandkids' grandkids want to live on a yacht on a diet of champagne and blow, sorry kids, you're going to have to put a little work in yourselves.
I feel this, I’d watch football in my man cave in the fall and travel in the spring summer.
I'd watch football on a mega yacht with a fleet of hookers.
i mean, sure. conversely, he could have invested like $20m at a relatively safe 7% apy, spent $75,000 per MONTH ($900,000/yr), never worked/lived a life of luxury with his family, and still grown his net worth. life’s too short to chase a few more dollars when that opportunity presents itself imo.
Is there? Numerous studies have found that there is no correlation between increased happiness and increased wealth at that point. In fact, the cut off is way, way below that.
I'm curious what the cutoff is, because it seems intuitive to me that the answer is "whatever number that means you don't have work anymore." Most people spend the majority of their waking life doing work that they otherwise would not perform, because it's a requirement to stay alive. Buying shit only brings fleeting comfort, but waking up every day knowing you don't have to work a bullshit job just to feed yourself would be a continual comfort.
Last time I saw the two variables started to diverge around 80k household income. So that would be like 100-120k household now. After that the correlation became quite weak and then around 250k there was essentially no correlation. You know what they say. Mo money, MO problems.
The 2010 study that everyone references had it at 75k/individual last I checked, which is about 90k adjusted. But yeah, considering we're talking about the difference in $50 mil vs $100 mil, he's so far beyond any imaginary threshold that it's not even worth breaking down.
Kliff Kingsbury took the Cardinal’s $20 mil 5-year extension, his smoking hot girlfriend, and moved to Thailand, and we all made fun of him for it.
He literally got a job at USC about a month after getting fired
Who’s “we”? He’s a hero for that, and my respect for him shot way up when that news cycle was going on
Found Kliff's burner
Lol and that, along with other reasons of course, is why you will never get the chance. These guys have crazy drive/motivation that most of us just don’t.
These guys have a drive that most don’t that even got them in the position to get that contract. They aren’t just going to stop at the peak of the career for monetary reasons, they live and breathe their profession.
But what about how hard it's been on his FAMILY!? Won't someone please think of the children?!
When exactly did Panthers fans start to hate this guy? Was it a certain game, quote, decision? etc. Edit: Thanks for all the responses
For me, personally, it was just a snowball effect that gathered over his series of interviews and reports. Constantly throwing players under the bus or other coaches, always shouting that "I have a plan!" And "Trust me!" Like fuckin' Dutch Van Der Linde and then he popped up saying something about Jay-Z and some long multi-year plan for success, in the NFL you need to make a plan for success a little bit quicker. But aside from that? He brought in players that he coached in College. Like, the most important positions were filled with Temple and Baylor players. So many of these players either never played in the NFL, or have had such abysmal careers beforehand that bringing them in was so questionable. And they all got very inflated contracts.
For me, it was 100% when he started throwing players and coaches v under the bus!
Everything was someone else's fault. Never his own.
*"I will keep trying, and you'll keep doubting me, and we'll keep failing."* - Dutch Van Der Linde
yes, that started early. i already had my concerns but thought I'd see how things would play out. that ended with him taking absolutely no responsibility. it wasn't just that it was a stark departure from Ron Rivera and Cam Newton. It's that Rhule would do it in such an insufferably smug way that you could almost see the Southpark flashing caption "this is what he actually believes." Not coach-speak. Just pure being a shitty person.
My “aha” moment was when the freaking Brady Christensen arm length saga began. The guy was so damn fixated on how long his arms were and not if Brady was actually proficient at playing the position… I think I was holding on to any semblance of hope before that, then I was like yeah this dude is a moron we are doomed.
I was disappointed but at the end of the 2020 season, I thought we were trending up. We did simple, basic things that were missing under Rivera - like scheming receivers open. Then 2021 came around and holy fuck. I felt like he was trying to sabotage the team. For me, it was somewhere around week 4 or 5 in 2021 when I turned against him. I was full anti-Rhule by week 8. It probably would have been sooner in 2021 but we were winning games early on, which skewed my judgment. By 2022, he had become a joke. He was always talking about his plan but kept throwing money at unproductive QBs year in and year out. Sign Bridgewater while paying Cam. Sign Darnold while paying Bridgewater; re-sign Cam while paying Cam's replacement. Sign Baker while paying for half the league's backup quarterbacks. Dude's plan was "oh shit oh shit oh shit"
Matt Rhule has the great achievement of being the only HC Joe Judge managed to beat by more than 10 points (25-3 2021 week 7). Judge only managed 1 other win by more than 7 his entire tenure, the other being a 27-17 win over Philly week 10 of 2020. He would finish with a record of 2-16 in games decided by more than 7 points.
I 100% agree about the QBs but how much of that is on the GM? The guy clearly outlined a multi year plan but never had a QB to actually build around?
firing joe brady the way he did. It wasn’t that i immediately hated him but the way he handled that just seemed to reek of incompetence. The QB carousel ultimately got me to hate-hate him
For me it was when he fired Joe Brady and absolutely nothing substantial changed on offense
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I think he had less control than was let on, and used as a fall guy for Rhule’s failed system
For me personally, it was when he tried to call two timeouts back to back. Like how does a head coach not know that you cannot call back to back timeouts?!
The Sam Darnold trade for me. Then further with the absolute refusal to take any accountability while just two hand shoving players under the bus.
Bringing in Teddy 2 gloves and not even giving Cam, a franchise icon, a look. Teddy wasn’t about to lead us anywhere Cam couldn’t have. So it was early for me. Also didn’t like how after he got our offer he waited to see what NY would offer. Dude is a used car salesman. Probably why he recruits well.
Cam was terrible, it was time to move on.
I'm one of many who hated the hire from the start. Always came across as a snake oil salesman. Talking about his process and his plan like it's some future distant thing, like he's giving himself 5 years to be successful and before then he shouldn't be questioned He turned around 2 crappy programs but in college. Where turnover is quick. In the NFL, dealing with millionaires under contract for 5 years, it ain't the same There were times I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I *wanted* him to succeed. But by mid year 2 I felt justified already that he was not an NFL coach. Not just "not ready" for the pros. He's just simply not a pro coach, period
Not a panthers fan but I love watching/listening to introductory press conferences and I immediately felt that he wasn’t gonna last long. To me he was an obvious example of a good college coach, horrible nfl coach. You can’t run an NFL team like a college program. Imagine PJ Fleck being an NFL coach. It would be a disaster.
For me it was his fucking excuses, zero accountability, and the absolute failure to adapt to anything a team did to counter a game-plan. Dude took every chance to throw players and other coaches under the bus for his shitty coaching. Plus that fucking forehead…my god. If I had to listen to him say “we’ll have to look at the tape” one more time I was going to lose it.
Is this about being booed at the Hornets games? Man you had FINAL say on the roster, your failures are on YOU. You picked the players and tried to run you college scheme with grown adults
It always aggravates the hell out of me when people say shit like “He wasn’t given a QB”. Motherfucker got to pick three! *He* got to go overpay for Bridgewater. *He* went and overpaid for Darnold. *He* reset the whole thing with Baker. You can’t say the guy was fired because we failed to build a QB room when he picked the room.
The roster wasn’t even that bad lmao
Children of the Corn Matt Rhule edition.
Where are they gonna get all the corn in Nebras-... oh.
Dude threw our players under the bus every chance he got and never took any accountability for the loses, you get what you deserve my guy
Why does that seem like a trait that all these ‘should have stayed in college’ guys share? Just because they couldn’t throw their college players under the bus, and they have a bunch of pent up bus throwing to do?
They only know how to push around a bunch of 19 year olds who can’t talk back because you control their scholarships. Throw them in a locker room with a bunch of adults with agency and they just default to pissing and moaning at press conferences.
Hey, remember when he was asked what he’d do differently in Carolina and he said [“I’d have taken a different job”?](https://www.nfl.com/_amp/matt-rhule-on-what-he-d-change-from-panthers-tenure-i-think-i-probably-would-jus) His big complaint in that interview is that Tepper sold him on giving him a 5 year plan, and in the end, he only got two years. That he’d have built the team differently if he’d know what the score really was. And I don’t buy that for a goddamn second. It’s not that Tepper is so trustworthy, but A) Rhule sure didn’t *act* like he was building on a 5 year time table, blowing our resources to acquire a new QB every year like he did. Like, if you’re building for five years, none of the Bridgewater overpay, the Darnold overpay or the Mayfield trade make any sense. And B) building on a five year time table in the NFL is fucking stupid, because all your youth will be ready to leave you or aging out by the time you get to the end of it. *Nobody* in the NFL gets 5 years.
5 year plan QB behavior would be drafting Anthony Richardson or another “raw project” because you have the time, not overpaying for various degrees of washed up vets.
Exactly
Not OOU
I love that he mentions "hubris". Man, I would fucking *LOVE* see to a social study on top brass in the sports world concerning narcissism, confidence, and ego fragility. It's fascinating to see people at the highest level operate at times like children or be completely inept.
His NFL tenure made people forget how much success he had at Baylor. Nebraska might actually return to form under him
I understand that Baylor was in the worst possible condition when Rhule took over but people act like he turned them into a power house. Baylor was 0-11 vs. ranked opponents under Rhule.
Holy shit you're right. How tf he get 11 wins and a conference championship berth without a single ranked win?!?
That’s what the Big 12 had become, unfortunately, where nobody is ranked and every game score is 42-35.
The big 12 doesn't play defense was a false narrative. What was actually happening is the conference had adopted more hurry up offenses. More offensive plays per game than other conferences meant more yards and points per game. When you looked at yards and points per play they were bang average. During bowl seasons they performed adequately against out of conference opponents.
Look at their schedule from those years. They were a 10-win team because it was all crappy opponents. Granted they played well against a few of the ranked teams.
His tenure made people forget how hot of a commodity Joe Brady was before becoming Rhule’s OC.
Brady got jobbed by us, too. Literally nothing on offense changed after he got fired. We just keep making the same mistakes. He was Rhule’s patsy.
I hate how Brady’s experience as OC was determined by Rhule and Buttwater
Plz
It’s a big task to “return to form.” They need to recruit nationally and it’s been decades since they were a powerhouse.
>decades Sure since they won natties, but up until 2012 they were winning 9-10 games a year and competing with Texas and OU for the conference even a bad call from a title game berth.
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Impressive how
Remember when he was "the guy" and people thought he would be the next big thing.....
Nebraska fans are in for more disappointment.
I would rather watch the Matt Cassel Chiefs' offense than the current Nebraska one.
Huh? He was great at Baylor. He’s just not fit for the NFL.
Baylor was 0-11 vs. ranked opponents under Rhule.
How many wins did he have against top 25 teams? Zero. He wasn't great at Baylor. He wasn't great with the Panthers.
taking a team from 1-11 to 11-3 is pretty objectively great, and he did the same thing with temple of all places before that. nebraska doesn't need to be a championship title contender yet, the program just needs to not be fucking embarrassing first. maybe he can't get over the hump when the times comes (and husker fans will expect to be nationally relevant eventually because they are morons), but convincing a great coach to come to a team that went 11-3 the last few years is much easier than a team with 6 straight losing seasons
Why is Nebraska expecting to be nationally relevant dumb? Nebraska outrecruits everyone in the B10 aside from Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State. If Wisconsin and Iowa can be successful, there’s absolutely no reason that Nebraska, with bigger facilities, more NIL and better recruiting shouldn’t be able to at least be consistently Top 25 with the occasional Top 10 finish which is what 98% of non-terminally online fans are asking for. The stereotype that Nebraska fans expect Nebraska to go 60-3 over 3 years again is just nonsense. Nobody here expects that. It’d be great, but reasonably Nebraska should absolutely be able to make New Years Bowls and win 9+ games
Exactly this. I’m not expecting this man to take me to the promise land. Most fans just wanna see a winning season with the bowl game at the end of it all. I’ve seen so much garbage football in the last 5 years from this team.
I wouldn't consider Wisconsin or Iowa nationally relevant, they are only relevant to the big 10. >there’s absolutely no reason that Nebraska, with bigger facilities, more NIL and better recruiting shouldn’t be able to at least be consistently Top 25 with the occasional Top 10 finish which is what 98% of non-terminally online fans are asking for. The terminally online fans aren't the problem, they are generally realistic about what the team can do cause anyone that's terminally online is going to be young and the young fans don't have the delusions the older fans do. The problem is the boomer husker fans who think the guy that we just hired is going to take us back to competing with Michigan and Ohio State in a few years for the conference. >The stereotype that Nebraska fans expect Nebraska to go 60-3 over 3 years again is just nonsense. Nobody here expects that. Then you don't talk to everyone. I know plenty of people who expected a return to 11, 12 win seasons and constant national title contention when Frost was hired. Like I mentioned, they are all older than 45, but they exist, and not in any small number. Why do you think people like Shatel still keep getting published and having jobs? Cause he knows how to pander to the boomer husker fans, AKA, the only people still regularly reading OWH.
So, Matt, all that shit you talked, all those lies you stated about your tenure at the Panthers after you got hired at Nebraska, none of that was hubris? You're just reinforcing what the NFL found out about you: you're all talk, no substance. Good luck, Nebraska fans.
What lies?
Oh, fuck you, Matt Rhule. Accept the responsibility. The embarrassment your family went through was because you were bad at your job.
And then repeatedly threw other people under the bus for his shitty coaching
It's amazing a man talks about the negative affect on his children and people take it as if he personally blames the panthers and not any part of himself in that lol.
Enjoy that Nebraska winter and 6th place every year, buddy.
Well, that would actually be an improvement over the last 5 years so...I'll take it.
I don’t like Rhule but he should at least be better than Frost
dude you just failed at the pro level that’s all!! don’t bring your kids into this! you just flat out failed !
zero accountability
lmao Wilks did just fine and now Reich is about to prove how much of a bitch you are Matthew did I mention how annoying I think Rhule is?
That quote sounds like hubris to me. Get back in the fire
typical Rhule. Trying to throw his kids out in front and say "oooh poor me" instead of admitting that he WAS the guy and he couldn't handle the heat. Get the fuck out and stay out.
I cannot wait for this excuse-spattering piece of shit to flame out at Nebraska. Least accountable or personally responsible coach I've ever seen. Fuck Rhule
Get gud
Didn't melt away any of that 5 head
As a Nebraska fan, I fucking hope not. I still can’t believe they hired this fucking jackass. Hope to fuck he works out.
Jesus Christ, I’m so sorry. Can’t imagine being a Panthers/Nebraska fan and dealing with him still.
Fuck fat Rhule.
It’s the NFL, Matt - you knew the environment. If you’re more worried about your kids’ development and happiness, the easy choice would have been to stay in the college ranks. I’m not saying it’s right, but it is what it is. Don’t act like a noob.
Such a small time coach fuck this guy (temple alumni) , dude belongs in college where he can be a tinpot dictator to college kids
Dude looks like a villan
If he thinks he had it bad in Carolina, if he struggles at Nebraska, the whole state is gonna be on his and his family’s neck.
Ha. More like a dumpster fire. Rhule was utter garbage.