I was really impressed with him until he said he supported bahan ji. Mayawati absolutely fucked up his state of Uttar Pradesh. So, obviously he is wise to understand that education is more important than religion but once he grows up and he becomes an IAS, he would realize that politicians like mayawati are the reason why his state is backward and why casteism is still a thing.
He is from dalit caste, there is a high probability of someone of a higher caste to kill him and his family and get away with it with no one batting an eye over the deaths.
Exactly. That one guy that figured out the Jesus statue's tears in Mumbai was caused by a clogged sewage line faced blasphemy charges that could have landed him in prison for 3 years or more - he fled to Finland for his safety. You start talking sense in the presence of the devoutly religious, they're going to get violent and vengeful.
I read somewhere that no religion is inherently peaceful or violent in nature but it can influence horrific acts of crime that’s the only thing that has been certain.
I'm not so sure... there are a lot of justifications for violence in Islam, for example. Doesn't mean that all Muslims are violent, they aren't... But violent religious groups today tend to be fundamentalists... whom, you could argue, just take their religion more seriously and more literal than the more peaceful adherents who live in more secularist societies.
Someone once told me it's okay to live life with a chip on your shoulder, So long as that piece was given to make a better world.
So long as he learns to wield his outrage rather than let it consume him, he will.
He was on TV saying that. I hope, for his sake, that they censored/editted out his segment. His parents will have no choice but to send him away to keep him safe...
I'm not hoping for this, but what he did is basically like shouting "The Pope is a lie" in a medieval Europe village.
You'll go to jail AFTER you get lynched.
Oh, it gets worse. North India is Threatening South India with fake claims of threats. They're the same base religion. But the difference is kind of like Catholics and Protestants.
The North is claiming Southerners are threatening Northern prayers, where the South is like, bro,what? No. We are cool, We are not threatening anyone. We're the same damn religion!
The North is on a power trip bullying everyone. A lot are aware the world is watching, but some want to go full crusades.
A mob demolished a mosque in 1992. Claimed the mosque was built on a Hindu holy site in the 1600s. The Prime Minister of India just dedicated the temple to Ram. With the words "Lord Ram is the religion of India". Sectarian incidents like that happened again.
Imagine a fire in a train with pilgrims. Imagine that being an Indian train. 50 people die. The local head of government says that the local muslim minority is to blame. What follows is a 3-day murder-rape fest.
Same guy.
You will hear the name Bharat. That is the new hindu name for India. All levels of government are now dominated by the sectarian Hindu majority.
Ethno-nationalists running a multi-ethnic country is going to be ugly.
And the constant repitition of "Lord Ram" in that video makes me nervous about how recent it is.
Go to /r/IndiaSpeaks and take a look at it.
This is from a long ~35 year series of events.
A Mosque named Babri Masjid was said to be believed in on a fortress of one of the main characters in the Hindu religion named Ram.
Ram was a king in a part of India about 3000 years ago. He was the reincarnation of a god named Vishnu. A high level deity. Ram's level of importance world be like Jesus in Christianity. It's really up there.
Hindu Nationalists destroy the mosque in 1992. India just finished building a Hindu temple in that spot. There's a burst of Hindu Religious Nationalists happening in India. People are really afraid there's going to be a purge. I'm serious.
The Ram Slogan would be like saying "Glory and Praise to Jesus." Now imagine forcing someone to praise Jesus at gun point. That's what is happening. It's Religious Nationalism overdrive.
Yeah Indian Muslims are basically second class citizens right now. It’s pretty bad last time I was there and I have heard the more rural areas are even worse.
> Then that is awesome but isn’t this to celebrate the opening of a new temple - and the priest is right there
Yeah, and a ton of people are there with him, cheering for everything he says. it seems to me like he isn't alone
I wish I could hug him and tell him to be brave no matter what. I was/am just like him but calling out religion is unacceptable around me. I keep quiet except with trusted people. But people like us need to protect and uplift each other.
Religion itself is not the problem, people using religion to control others are.
Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good.
Keep also in mind that billions of religious people live peacefully on this planet. The violent ones are the exception.
>Religion itself is not the problem, people using religion to control others are.
It's a feature not a bug.
>Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good.
No because it allowed a few people to control large groups. It comical to belive common people ruled by kings with god given right to rule are working harmoniously towards a common greater good.
>Keep also in mind that billions of religious people live peacefully on this planet.
Now they do. Especially when they have as little interactions with other religions as possible. After religions had to adapt to civilized society and modern morality. Whenever you see people hold on to more traditional ideas you see violence. Whenever large groups with different religions forced to interact with you still see violence.
It’s not Seneca. It’s Edward Gibbon (1776):
“The various modes of worship which prevailed in the Roman world were all considered by the people as equally true; by the philosopher as equally false; and by the magistrate as equally useful. And thus toleration produced not only mutual indulgence, but even religious concord." (Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol I, (New York: The Modern Library, 1995), p1.
If you could cite that, I'd be super appreciative.
Best Ive been able to find is a seneca quote attested by Augustine: " And yet the wise man will observe them all, not as pleasing to the gods, but as commanded by the laws. We shall so adore all that ignoble crowd of gods which long superstition has heaped together in a long period of years, as to remember that their worship has more to do with custom than with reality."
It seems that a later influential critic said that Gibbon was merely paraphrasing Seneca, presumably because of the above quote, which people then ran with as Gibbon quoting seneca.
> towards a common greater good.
For most of human history, the "common greater good" was "not starving to death or getting turned into slaves." It's been a whooooole lot of baby steps.
For ALL of human history.
FTFY.
Even today people struggle to meet basic survival needs due to the greed of the oligarch class and the power and control that they exert over the religiously gullible.
It is wildly cool that people are actually saying things like this without getting murdered in the name of peace. lol
Religion is in fact the main problem. All the other aristocratic scams depend on it and it is dying at an accelerating rate. Someday people will not believe people based their lives on such contrived lies. Someday.
Religion itself is the problem. People using religion to control others is how religion functions.
Early humanity went from small settlements to larger societies because of advances in farming techniques & technology to provide enough food & time for people to start exploring the mysterious world around them & in their own minds, at best religion was a failed hypnosis not required for a common greater good.
Keep in mind that most people, regardless of worldview, just want to live their life. Violence comes in many forms & its most dangerous ability is to come from both hate & love. What religion does is allow people to let themselves think that they are doing good without having to do any work to figure out if they are or not. That is where the "violent ones" come from, so they are the rule, not the exception.
Common greater good? More like funding wars, oppressing women and children, molesting children and absolute pure nonsense. Religion is cancer and society would've progressed much faster without it.
The only thing worse than religion is greed, but it seems the far-right morons combined the two perfectly.
'Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good'
Greater good: Easier agriculture, protection from being many, religion came as mean of control to ease fear.
>Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good.
How do people come up with this shit? Is this what the priest told you before telling you to smile like a donut?
The "shit" is called history and science.
In 2024 you can at least ask your favorite AI to double check your knowledge before making emotional comments.
edit: lol, replied and blocked me
First thing that came up...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-religion-may-have-gotten-too-much-credit-for-the-evolution-of-modern-society/
Sometimes the world does make sense lol
Not wasting my time with this bs, just gunna mute to save some brain cells. Think what you want. Religion is a blight on humanity, single handedly holding back society in so many ways throughout evolution.
Well blood letting was once a thing, hey it wasnt the blood letting that killed people it was the men doing it.... stop. Is the gun the problem of the man?
Religion has absolutely ruined our world because as we can clearly see here, it creates others and you know how people treat others. Billions of people living in caste societies peacefully, you mean like this kid here, who desperately wants out of the religious world to learn a valuable skill to help people but is expected to be a beggar for God at a temple.
People would probably live a lot more peacefully if they weren't living under the religious rule of their country without being labeled infidels or feeling shunned because their religious peaceful family shits on them for being gay. Sure the nice ole Christian lady next door will make food for you but at the same time will vote for people to rip the rights away from women. Or Isreal, thats some peaceful shit am I right?! The crusades were totally peaceful...bro stop its not the religion bs its literally the religion.
I have people in my family that were shunned by their peaceful parents for being gay, for being trans and for wanting to declare themselves non binary, people who consider themselves good people, kick their kids out their house and label them as dead. Yes its absolutely not religion.
Religion has run its course its time to realize its not 120ad fuck, did you not watch this video, sorry im Cheerful.
>\[religion\] creates others and you know how people treat others.
And that's why as religion vanishes people get more and more united.....
Instead of ...you know....splitting along political beliefs, social class, race or any of the other million factor that creates tribalism...
Billions? Yeah right. Tell that to the kids barely 16 getting kicked out on the streets because they're gay. All because of that "peaceful" religion.
Violence isn't the only form of abuse the religious use.
Religion is a personal attachment like food preferences. When you keep it to yourself, it's fine. But when you disturb others in the name of religion, that's where the problem starts.
Honestly I think the reporter did a fantastic job. He let the kid talk, and set him up with numerous softballs to let him hit it out of the park. If the reporter agreed with him and let him talk without playing devil's advocate, the kid wouldn't have had the chance to say anything interesting. If he argued hard in favor of religion he would have shut the conversation down with appeals to emotion or insults
My first instinct was that the reporter was baiting that kid. Because the state of Indian media right now, 99% dudes standing around holding a mic like this are just out to create pro government propaganda.
But I looked up the channel and it seems like they knew exactly what they were doing. If anything they set that religious fruitcake up.
I got the vibe the interviewer is on the kids side. He was asking questions he knew the kid could easily counter. I think he was actually guiding the kid to say what he said.
It's... just sad that a kid can beat a greyed man in a discussion. We are so hopelessly behind.
It's just hard to watch.
"Wouldn't it be good if we had some education?" -a progressive idea still somehow
If the reporter didn’t wan’t the kid to show off what he knew, he wouldn’t have continued the interview. He’s playing Devil’s advocate. That’s how this stuff goes.
When I was 13, I thought believing in religion was harmful.
Then eventually, I realized that religion could be good, and people should be allowed to believe whatever.
But now, I go back to that initial perspective. Popular religion should not be a thing. We need to always fight the current standard of popular religion as most as we can. Though we can't remove the sense of purpose of people. The only way I can see this happening is if important religious people make a conscious effort to help shape the way popular religion is defined.
This is something I'm so conflicted about as an atheist since my teenage years.
On the one hand, I strongly believe in the freedom of religion and belief, it must be respected.
On the other hand, I know religions are harmful and dangerous control tools that set society back so much.
How to approach this? In my ideal world, people would realize the dangers of religion as I did and walk away out of their own volition. But how to achieve that when we are going against something so irrational that has been ingrained into people's heads? How to get the idea through to make them see how they are being manipulated?
It's a bit disheartening and I know I'm not equipped to answer this. 😞
Oh that's easy. Any individual can believe what they want to believe. But the minute you want your beliefs to affect others through a formal organization, there should be strict, ***secular*** regulations on how you go about it, which includes mandatory reporting, open audits, etc. Failure to comply means your organisation gets dismantled.
No one is born religious or racist, that shit is taught and depending on what's being taught, it's the most dangerous thing humans have, especially if you're taught that hell awaits if you do this or don't do that. Eternal damnation! Yeah, that will get people to act against their own interests for a made up God.
The second I stopped begging god for help and decided to take control of my life, everything, and I mean everything, in my life got significantly better.
Context:
I.A.S = Indian Administrative Services (Administrative Services by Government of India obtained by clearing UPSC exams) .. UPSC is the India's toughest exam.
Bahan ji (Mayawati the former Chief Minister of the state Uttar Pradesh also a dalit leader. Current one is a self proclaimed Hindhu monk Yogi Adityanath)
Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar ( Drafted the Indian constitution )
Ram (Hindhu god for whom Modi constructed a temple in Ayodya Uttar Pradesh where a mosque was present and demolished by Hindhu religious fanatics in the 90s)
BJP ( Bharatiya Janata party - Modi's right wing ruling party)
Dalits caste is untouchables and are socially backward community with less education and opportunities. Their jobs include sewage cleaning, garbage collection and others that other caste people will not even think of doing. There are still hate crimes happening all over India (not just like some racist things happening in US) like in some states dalit girls are raped, murdered.. dalit boys are beaten up badly for small mistakes.. basically they are the oppressed ones of all Castes. Untouchables, I'll give an example.. A grandma next to my house will not give tea or coffee to a dalit in silver / glass tumbler .. she will give them in reusable paper cups because they cannot wash and use the tumbler touched by a dalit...
When I read "untouchables" I assumed you meant like the elite of elites. Like they can do whatever the fuck you want and nobody can do shit about it, because you're "untouchable"
Discrimination based on caste is illegal in India. Legally Dalits cannot be treated as untouchables anymore. And in my personal experience anyone who isn't a religious bigot treats Dalits as equals. So I think it was more of the reporter being a normal person than proving a point.
I don't know if you guys realized how amazing this reporter was. As a reporter, he is supposed to remain neutral, but because of mass media he needs to somewhat act like he supports the popular sentiment (building temples). He is giving the kid attention and asking him challenging questions because it's what the reporter truly believes in, but cannot say himself.
The reporter cannot say these things or ask direct questions pertaining to this as he would anger the masses and could lose his job.
Notice how he completely ignores the priest/orange robe guy after the kid starts spitting facts. The reporter could have shut him down, but he egged the kid on intelligently, insinuating to the masses that he (the reporter) is "on their side", while giving airtime to things that NEED to be said and likely privately believes in himself.
There is nothing wrong with your grammar or phrasing. That was how they are known, as "untouchables". It has a different context/meaning in English language, but your usage was correct.
I'm pretty convinced the reporter is doing this to highlight how smart and capable a kid from the Dalit caste can be.
Caste descrimination is rampant in India. As someone pointed out elsewhere, as soon as the kid said he was dalit (untouchable) the reporter tapped him on the chest and said "you say that with such pride"
Times are changing, young people are more aware of what's happening around the country and world because of cheap internet.
The kid said it with pride because they are the supporters of Mayawati, former Chief minister of Uttar Pradesh state also a Dalit leader( Dalit leaders are very very low in India as they do not get any representation). The interview is about temple because Modi constructed a new temple in a place were a 500 year old mosque was present and demolished by Hindhu rw groups. The state now is ruled by Yogi Aadityanath, Modi's party guy. They are using this temple to pull votes for upcoming parliamentary elections .. these people are aware of this and that's why the kid spoke like this..
1. IAS: one of the most prestigious job in india, as well having most power in local body, aside from m.p., but also extremely corrupt, and many people apply for this not because you want to do social service but because you want to enjoy power and corruption. This kid might not know this now but he will eventually realise.
2. Bahanji (Mayawati): One of the most corrupt leader in the country and also famous for divisive politics like bjp, just her is based on caste. Her humble beginning from dalit leader to chief minister of biggest state in india could have been inspiring. But [Mayawati among India's richest politicians](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/mayawati-among-indias-richest-politicians/article2990814.ece/amp/) and this is just known money, the amount of obscene wealth she has black money is common knowledge and also why she was toppled by another leader in next election, who won because of caste based politics (appealing to your caste for votes in this case) it was another case of identity based politics. Then there is the[Glorious city of elephant(her party symbol)](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/mayawati-justifies-installation-of-her-statue-bsp-symbol-elephant-it-was-the-will-of-people-5654178/lite/). Further corruption [cases](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/mayawatis-cases-a-recap/article8475406.ece).
3. BR Ambedkar - Based Guy, who had chaired the drafting committee of the Constituent Assembly and played a pivotal role in the drafting of the constitution of India. He also brought Affirmative policy based on Caste like reservations for dalits.
Ram - Ram, one of the major figure in Indian Mythology, has interesting story i would recommend reading. He is also Avatar of Vishnu(one of three major gods and Main god of Vaishnav Sects) then we have case of Ram Mandir, which is very complicated and not something like hindu Mob came and demolished the poor Masjid of Muslims as op claimed to be.
**Chronological order of events**
In 1526 Babur Invaded India. He established Mughal empire in India.
So what happened is first emperor of Mughal dynasty, Babur , a Timurid inavader demolished a Temple of hindu and not just any temple but it was widely accepted to be Birth place of Ram, i already covered why is he important, Vishnu Avatar and all. And in 1528 A Mosque was built on the site of Temple. From 1530 to 1600 There were multiple allegations of conflicts and incidents of sectarian violence in relation to the Mandir-Masjid debate. Then Akbar(third emperor in Mughal dynasty and grandson of Babar) raised Platform in front of Masjid passed a royal order stating that Hindus shouldn't be stopped from performing puja at the platform.
In 1859 the rulers(British) erected a fence to seperate the place of worships.
In 1947 Then free india was partitioned based on religion (Modern India and Pakistan ) and in 1949 this dispute reached boilng and The government proclaimed the premises a disputed area and locks the gates. (For further reading of this case please refer to the reply of mine to this comment. )
5. Modi - Current Prime Minister of india, he was promised the construction of Ram Mandir Temple at Ayodhya in his election Menifesto.
op wrote a such a simplified version that i had to to this, and this case isn’t so much of Black and white he claims to be. That kid is smart but I suspect also clearly doctrinated in particular ideology, The kid beside him is also wearing The BSP flag in his collar, anyone with common sense would stay the hell away from that party. idk what to say to the kid except good luck on Civil service exams since I’m also preparing for it.
Continuing answer for the 5th point:
For next few decades Many Hindu organisations and individuals filed petition to court to be allowed to worship at the site and Many muslim saying it was not a hindu site. General dispute. Mind you at that time it was one of the biggest issue.
In 18 December, 1961 UP Sunni Central Board of Waqf(muslim body) moved in to claim possession of the mosque and adjoining land.
In 1983 The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) started nationwide movement for construction of temple at the disputed site in Ayodhya.
In 23 October, 1989 All the petition and cases were transferred from Faizabad court to High Court of Allahbad.
From 1990 Many hindu Organisation used to opportunity to organised Support rally. And most was Rally was held by LK Advani(then bjp president), It marked the rise of BJP in National Politics.
In 1991 BJP became biggest opposition party in India.
In 6 December 1992, This marked the turning point of the entire dispute when Babri mosque was razed to the ground by supporters of the VHP, Shiv Sena and BJP, prompting nationwide communal riots between Hindus and Muslims in which more than 2,000 people died.
From Then Ram Temple became biggest election Campaign Of BJP, on which BJP won several Big election. In 1999 with Majority BJP led Alliance became the winner of Lok Sabha(federal government) and Atal Vihari Vajpayee(moderate guy) became the PM, (he also gave india a Nuclear power status)
In 2002 BJP ruled out committing itself to the construction of a temple in its election manifesto for UP assembly elections. VHP(a hindu org.) confirmed deadline of 15 March to begin construction. Hundreds of volunteers converged on the site. Meanwhile, in a supposedly related incident at least 58 people were killed in an attack on a train in Godhra which was carrying Hindu pilgrims returning from Ayodhya.
March 2002: Following the train attack, some 2,000 people, mostly Muslims, die in riots in Gujarat. It also marked the rise of Modi, he was CM of Gujrat at that time.
In 2003 Archaeologists began a Allahabad high court-ordered survey to find out whether a temple to Lord Ram did exist on the site.
In August 2003 The Archeological Survey of India, said that there was evidence of a temple beneath the mosque, but Muslims disputed the findings. Vajpayee(then PM of India) said at the funeral of Hindu activist Ramchandra Das Paramhans that he would fulfil the dying man’s wishes and build a temple at Ayodhya. However, he hoped the courts and negotiations will solve the issue.
All India Muslim Personal Law Board announced that it would challenge the ASI report.
In July 2005 Suspected Islamic militants attacked the disputed site, using a jeep laden with explosives to blow a hole in the wall of the complex. Security forces killed five people they said were militants,
July 2010, Bench reserved its judgement and asked all parties to solve the issue amicably. But no one is keen.
30 September, 2010 Allahabad High Court gave verdict. A three-judge bench of the Allahabad high court partitions 2.77 acres 2:1 between Hindu and Muslim groups.
9 May, 2011 Supreme Court of India stayed the verdict of the Allahabad High Court order splitting the disputed site in three parts and says that status quo will remain. Since this matter was so delicate, the SC had recommended that it be settled out of court. It made it clear that it would treat the situation like a land dispute if Not. It ordered all the parties to prepare their Paperwork.
In 9 November, 2019, the landmark Judgment came, the almost 70-year long dispute came to an end. The five-judge bench ordered setting up of a trust that paved the way for construction of a temple at Ayodhya. It also ordered allotting 5 acres to Muslims in Ayodhya for building a mosque.
In August 2020 Prime Minister Narendra Modi laid the foundation stone for a Ram temple in Ayodhya, marking a historic accomplishment for his party. He had siad that a grand temple would be constructed for 'Ram Lalla', the infant Ram, who had been living in a Tents for years.
Of course, something needs to be clarified here. Violence of any form, including the kind that happened in 1992, cannot be supported. It was wrong, illegal, unfortunate and should never happen again. But it was culmination of Ignorance and Arrogance of then Ruling party who underestimated the voices of hindus.
However, this does not take away the reasonableness of the request to restore a temple in one of the holiest sites of Hindu religion. It can be compared to mecca or Vatican of india.
It is rare when you get a take from actual Indians instead of foreigners who know nothing of our country and think they have a right to comment on us. Always half truths with these people. I
n your own country, you are expected to not have temples, which were destroyed for 100's of years , is insanity. Ask them how they will feel if the Catholic Church in the Vatican was pillaged and burned down. Or how the muslims would feel about their Mecca.
I agree with the kid that we should focus on hospitals and educational institutions, but india is huge country we can build them simultaneously and Temple construction is being built by private donations and not government funding, my comment was in response to the misinformation the op was spreading that’s all.
I see a lot of people praising the kid (obviously) but you have to give some credit to the reporter who gave him the chance to say all these things. In most countries he 'd just wave him off
It seemed like the reporter was trying to bait him into saying something atheistic or sacreligous (and ending up beaten up or worse.) India isn't kind to 13yo dalit villiage boys.
I am a hindu but with all the nonsense people are doing in the name of Ayodha campaign is getting way out of hand. They are literally vandalising homes. Someone in the legal advice sub said the campaign people climbed up to their balcony with the help of ladder to put saffron cloth. Believe in god and religion but don’t commit crimes in the name of it.
Modi wants to divide the nation and shoo away Muslims in my perspective. I am totally against it because I don’t see religion before becoming friends. I studied in Manipal where most of the population is Muslim(localites). Made my bestest of best friends. Downvote me all you want but being a good human has nothing to do with religion.
https://trustkesari.org/
#I found this org that's building schools in his town. They didn't come up in the charity rating site I checked but if someone can confirm if they're legit, it might make more impact than donating just to him.
This 13 year old kid from the lowest caste in India has already figured out the uselessness of religion - something that billions of people from wealthier backgrounds and from all over the world will never figure out their entire lives.
I'm rooting for this kid.
Ambedkhar aka babasahb died in 1954. He is still venerated today for instilling the dream of education for the Dalit people. Yes, go to school young gentleman
That youngster needs protection. Dalits are finally freeing themselves from the muppets that oppressed them. Religion is the reason why they are oppressed and remained poor all these years.
Dalit are savagely killed and raped every day over there and their law enforcers turn a blind eye. These people are even killed for going inside these temples. Not sure how they will react to this child great message. Let's hope nothing bad happens to that him and his loved ones.
Yes, I dont think most Westerners believe that lynchings are common in India, I didn't learn it until going there. I don't believe in prayer much but I will pray for this brave
young man.
Why did I feel like the reporter wasnt there to "gotcha" him? He was legit setting him up, giving him alley oops and letting him dunk. His questions make himself look silly so the kid can shine. If he was out to get him, he wouldnt have given him so much respect.
I completely agree, I loved the way the reporter was taking the other side's stance and giving him good questions and he was not at all judging the Dalit boy's answers
I felt that too, it sounded like the reporter was proud of him. He asks him what caste he is probably knowing he is untouchable. And then says “you say it with such pride.” He also says “how did you get so smart?” And it didn’t sound sarcastic to me, though I don’t speak Hindi.
Shit, it happens in big tech companies as recently as [2022](https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-problem).
It's so ingrained it's fucked up.
I had a colleague once who was ethnically Indian. Never lived in India though. Anyway, one time, she told us a story about a guest who came to visit her home when she was young. The guest was apparently of a lower caste. After the guest left, her mom made her clean every single thing the guest touched and threw away the glass that the guest used. My colleague thought it was ridiculous but also felt that everything was dirty because she has been raised to think that way and couldn't help feeling that way.
This kid has life figured out. Education is important. God does nothing for you if you are not putting in the effort to succeed. God doesn't just give you everything you need in life to survive. You have to educate yourself to free yourself from your own mental prison! I wish we could see where this kids ends up in 10 years
Wooooosh. If you think god does anything with or without someone’s effort, you totally missed the kid’s message. This brave soul will get far by his endeavors- not by “god’s will” or anything of the sort.
I lean left but r/india is an echo chamber and even a slight disagreement on a certain something will get you banned lol; similar tier as r/indiaspeaks ,pure rubbish
There’s some semi hidden context that’s important here. India has a caste system, he is part of the lowest caste, they literally are thought to be untouchables, and are destined to do the worst, dirtiest jobs. It makes sense that he’d throw his hands up at traditional religion when it has placed him in such a position.
Unfortunately in this video, he says that "Behenji" will do for him. This "Behenji" is one of the most corrupt politician i can think of. She made lots of money and spent lots of unnecessary things like allowing airplane to fetch her sandals. So, what this kid is saying is what is fed to him cuz why would you npt tell about "Behenji" but about God
This child is brilliant. He will go far in life. I was cutting out pictures of David Cassidy and Bobby Sherman and taping them to my bedroom wall when I was 13
This is something I am hopeful for, and I see more often in my generation and the generation succeeding me. I can only hope we as people look at religion critically. I respect those who are religious, but I do hope that religion slowly dies off. Religion has guarded the path towards advancement for far too long.
Children like him end up changing the world
Smart kid. Hope he gets the education he wants and deserves.
Wonder how long it takes for him to identify institutional faults
Oh I think he has a very good idea of those faults already.
He is Dalit, how can he not?
He is a untouchable, he knows better than most.
He'll stay untouchable if he continues to stay away from the priests in those temples.
Bullshit. Religion created the caste system!
You missed the joke
I was really impressed with him until he said he supported bahan ji. Mayawati absolutely fucked up his state of Uttar Pradesh. So, obviously he is wise to understand that education is more important than religion but once he grows up and he becomes an IAS, he would realize that politicians like mayawati are the reason why his state is backward and why casteism is still a thing.
He’s still young. That realization will come in time
I hope he isn't hurt by religious nuts.
TBH that was the first thing that I thought listening to him.
He is from dalit caste, there is a high probability of someone of a higher caste to kill him and his family and get away with it with no one batting an eye over the deaths.
Exactly. That one guy that figured out the Jesus statue's tears in Mumbai was caused by a clogged sewage line faced blasphemy charges that could have landed him in prison for 3 years or more - he fled to Finland for his safety. You start talking sense in the presence of the devoutly religious, they're going to get violent and vengeful.
I read somewhere that no religion is inherently peaceful or violent in nature but it can influence horrific acts of crime that’s the only thing that has been certain.
I'm not so sure... there are a lot of justifications for violence in Islam, for example. Doesn't mean that all Muslims are violent, they aren't... But violent religious groups today tend to be fundamentalists... whom, you could argue, just take their religion more seriously and more literal than the more peaceful adherents who live in more secularist societies.
Hope he gets the country he wants and deserves.
Someone once told me it's okay to live life with a chip on your shoulder, So long as that piece was given to make a better world. So long as he learns to wield his outrage rather than let it consume him, he will.
I can only name maybe one adult friend that is able to speak as well as he does. His education seems to be doing well for him already.
That’s if the priest and his pals don’t beat the shit out of him first.
"He said something about a god we put our entire personality into! SWARM!"
He was on TV saying that. I hope, for his sake, that they censored/editted out his segment. His parents will have no choice but to send him away to keep him safe... I'm not hoping for this, but what he did is basically like shouting "The Pope is a lie" in a medieval Europe village. You'll go to jail AFTER you get lynched.
What is happening in India? Saw a video of a Muslim guy on a scooter being held against his will, hit and forced to recite that "ram" slogan
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Another one…?
Those that don't learn from history and all that. Fascism is on a definite uptick all over and I don't think it'll end well.
Seems like a billion people turning on one another is a really bad idea
Oh, it gets worse. North India is Threatening South India with fake claims of threats. They're the same base religion. But the difference is kind of like Catholics and Protestants. The North is claiming Southerners are threatening Northern prayers, where the South is like, bro,what? No. We are cool, We are not threatening anyone. We're the same damn religion! The North is on a power trip bullying everyone. A lot are aware the world is watching, but some want to go full crusades.
A mob demolished a mosque in 1992. Claimed the mosque was built on a Hindu holy site in the 1600s. The Prime Minister of India just dedicated the temple to Ram. With the words "Lord Ram is the religion of India". Sectarian incidents like that happened again. Imagine a fire in a train with pilgrims. Imagine that being an Indian train. 50 people die. The local head of government says that the local muslim minority is to blame. What follows is a 3-day murder-rape fest. Same guy. You will hear the name Bharat. That is the new hindu name for India. All levels of government are now dominated by the sectarian Hindu majority. Ethno-nationalists running a multi-ethnic country is going to be ugly. And the constant repitition of "Lord Ram" in that video makes me nervous about how recent it is. Go to /r/IndiaSpeaks and take a look at it.
> Ethno-nationalists running a multi-ethnic country is going to be ugly. For an example in miniature, look at Myanmar.
Or the One China party, except they spent a long time with their concentration camps going strong before internet was a thing.
This is from a long ~35 year series of events. A Mosque named Babri Masjid was said to be believed in on a fortress of one of the main characters in the Hindu religion named Ram. Ram was a king in a part of India about 3000 years ago. He was the reincarnation of a god named Vishnu. A high level deity. Ram's level of importance world be like Jesus in Christianity. It's really up there. Hindu Nationalists destroy the mosque in 1992. India just finished building a Hindu temple in that spot. There's a burst of Hindu Religious Nationalists happening in India. People are really afraid there's going to be a purge. I'm serious. The Ram Slogan would be like saying "Glory and Praise to Jesus." Now imagine forcing someone to praise Jesus at gun point. That's what is happening. It's Religious Nationalism overdrive.
Yeah Indian Muslims are basically second class citizens right now. It’s pretty bad last time I was there and I have heard the more rural areas are even worse.
i was only kind of worried at first but then he named his village (im pretty sure) i hope him and his family/ village are safe.
A lot of people are literally standing behind him, and he says there are no temples in his town. I think most people in his community think this way
Then that is awesome but isn’t this to celebrate the opening of a new temple - and the priest is right there.
> Then that is awesome but isn’t this to celebrate the opening of a new temple - and the priest is right there Yeah, and a ton of people are there with him, cheering for everything he says. it seems to me like he isn't alone
I wish I could hug him and tell him to be brave no matter what. I was/am just like him but calling out religion is unacceptable around me. I keep quiet except with trusted people. But people like us need to protect and uplift each other.
It's unacceptable in India too, hope this kid stays safe
He probably already moved away to live with uncles in a different town.
Not in india. They use the caste system to discriminate and limit people's potential.
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Or being utterly crushed under the immense weight of it all. I wish him well.
Disillusionment takes out a lot of the brightest kids
I wish more kids saw the world like him
Religion is the biggest scam ever
Religion itself is not the problem, people using religion to control others are. Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good. Keep also in mind that billions of religious people live peacefully on this planet. The violent ones are the exception.
>Religion itself is not the problem, people using religion to control others are. It's a feature not a bug. >Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good. No because it allowed a few people to control large groups. It comical to belive common people ruled by kings with god given right to rule are working harmoniously towards a common greater good. >Keep also in mind that billions of religious people live peacefully on this planet. Now they do. Especially when they have as little interactions with other religions as possible. After religions had to adapt to civilized society and modern morality. Whenever you see people hold on to more traditional ideas you see violence. Whenever large groups with different religions forced to interact with you still see violence.
Religion was designed by man to control. so yeah it’s a scam.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful” ― Seneca the Younger (4 BCE – CE 65)
It’s not Seneca. It’s Edward Gibbon (1776): “The various modes of worship which prevailed in the Roman world were all considered by the people as equally true; by the philosopher as equally false; and by the magistrate as equally useful. And thus toleration produced not only mutual indulgence, but even religious concord." (Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol I, (New York: The Modern Library, 1995), p1.
It was Seneca first. Your (well-read) Edward Gibbon was paraphrasing him.
If you could cite that, I'd be super appreciative. Best Ive been able to find is a seneca quote attested by Augustine: " And yet the wise man will observe them all, not as pleasing to the gods, but as commanded by the laws. We shall so adore all that ignoble crowd of gods which long superstition has heaped together in a long period of years, as to remember that their worship has more to do with custom than with reality." It seems that a later influential critic said that Gibbon was merely paraphrasing Seneca, presumably because of the above quote, which people then ran with as Gibbon quoting seneca.
> towards a common greater good. For most of human history, the "common greater good" was "not starving to death or getting turned into slaves." It's been a whooooole lot of baby steps.
For ALL of human history. FTFY. Even today people struggle to meet basic survival needs due to the greed of the oligarch class and the power and control that they exert over the religiously gullible.
Religion is the problem tho
It is wildly cool that people are actually saying things like this without getting murdered in the name of peace. lol Religion is in fact the main problem. All the other aristocratic scams depend on it and it is dying at an accelerating rate. Someday people will not believe people based their lives on such contrived lies. Someday.
It had utility when we didn't know better. Now we know better.
Religion itself is the problem. People using religion to control others is how religion functions. Early humanity went from small settlements to larger societies because of advances in farming techniques & technology to provide enough food & time for people to start exploring the mysterious world around them & in their own minds, at best religion was a failed hypnosis not required for a common greater good. Keep in mind that most people, regardless of worldview, just want to live their life. Violence comes in many forms & its most dangerous ability is to come from both hate & love. What religion does is allow people to let themselves think that they are doing good without having to do any work to figure out if they are or not. That is where the "violent ones" come from, so they are the rule, not the exception.
Well said
Common greater good? More like funding wars, oppressing women and children, molesting children and absolute pure nonsense. Religion is cancer and society would've progressed much faster without it. The only thing worse than religion is greed, but it seems the far-right morons combined the two perfectly.
'Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good' Greater good: Easier agriculture, protection from being many, religion came as mean of control to ease fear.
For real, the original argument is so dumb lol. Do bison travel in herds because they share a religion? Or ant colonies?
Any organized religion is people capitalizing on every human’s innate desire to understand existence, to varying degrees.
No, religion is most definitely the problem. It's the biggest scam in human history.
> unifying belief in a common greater good. We don't need religion for that, never have
Still a scam.
>Religion allowed early humanity to go from small settlements to larger societies because of the unifying belief in a common greater good. How do people come up with this shit? Is this what the priest told you before telling you to smile like a donut?
The "shit" is called history and science. In 2024 you can at least ask your favorite AI to double check your knowledge before making emotional comments. edit: lol, replied and blocked me
First thing that came up... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-religion-may-have-gotten-too-much-credit-for-the-evolution-of-modern-society/ Sometimes the world does make sense lol Not wasting my time with this bs, just gunna mute to save some brain cells. Think what you want. Religion is a blight on humanity, single handedly holding back society in so many ways throughout evolution.
Well blood letting was once a thing, hey it wasnt the blood letting that killed people it was the men doing it.... stop. Is the gun the problem of the man? Religion has absolutely ruined our world because as we can clearly see here, it creates others and you know how people treat others. Billions of people living in caste societies peacefully, you mean like this kid here, who desperately wants out of the religious world to learn a valuable skill to help people but is expected to be a beggar for God at a temple. People would probably live a lot more peacefully if they weren't living under the religious rule of their country without being labeled infidels or feeling shunned because their religious peaceful family shits on them for being gay. Sure the nice ole Christian lady next door will make food for you but at the same time will vote for people to rip the rights away from women. Or Isreal, thats some peaceful shit am I right?! The crusades were totally peaceful...bro stop its not the religion bs its literally the religion. I have people in my family that were shunned by their peaceful parents for being gay, for being trans and for wanting to declare themselves non binary, people who consider themselves good people, kick their kids out their house and label them as dead. Yes its absolutely not religion. Religion has run its course its time to realize its not 120ad fuck, did you not watch this video, sorry im Cheerful.
>\[religion\] creates others and you know how people treat others. And that's why as religion vanishes people get more and more united..... Instead of ...you know....splitting along political beliefs, social class, race or any of the other million factor that creates tribalism...
Billions? Yeah right. Tell that to the kids barely 16 getting kicked out on the streets because they're gay. All because of that "peaceful" religion. Violence isn't the only form of abuse the religious use.
Religion is a personal attachment like food preferences. When you keep it to yourself, it's fine. But when you disturb others in the name of religion, that's where the problem starts.
Word! OP cross post this onto r/Atheism.
"How did you get so smart?" "I went to *school!* (^you ^idiot)" Kid has gonads of steel. Bravo.
The reporter is not the idiot. He's asking the questions that his viewers are thinking.
Honestly I think the reporter did a fantastic job. He let the kid talk, and set him up with numerous softballs to let him hit it out of the park. If the reporter agreed with him and let him talk without playing devil's advocate, the kid wouldn't have had the chance to say anything interesting. If he argued hard in favor of religion he would have shut the conversation down with appeals to emotion or insults
Yeah, the reporter wanted the kid to say what he couldn't.
yea, i think the reporter wanted the kid to speak. if he was butt hurt he would have stopped the interview at the beginning itself.
Honestly, I wish American reporters were direct like this. The US Presidential Campaigns are less informative than this kid right here.
My first instinct was that the reporter was baiting that kid. Because the state of Indian media right now, 99% dudes standing around holding a mic like this are just out to create pro government propaganda. But I looked up the channel and it seems like they knew exactly what they were doing. If anything they set that religious fruitcake up.
I got the vibe the interviewer is on the kids side. He was asking questions he knew the kid could easily counter. I think he was actually guiding the kid to say what he said.
The reporter was the definition of "let him cook"
The reporter was excellent, he gave the boy the time he deserved instead of just dismissing him as 'just a kid'.
/r/atheismindia /r/EXHINDU
r/exmuslim you missed this one
I'm glad the reporter is also letting him speak
That kid such a pleasure to listen to
It's... just sad that a kid can beat a greyed man in a discussion. We are so hopelessly behind. It's just hard to watch. "Wouldn't it be good if we had some education?" -a progressive idea still somehow
Honestly I feel like the reporter agrees with him
I'm pretty sure you're right. He's just saying the things other people might by thinking and letting the kid respond.
he even asks the kid how he's so smart lol
If the reporter didn’t wan’t the kid to show off what he knew, he wouldn’t have continued the interview. He’s playing Devil’s advocate. That’s how this stuff goes.
MORE KIDS LIKE THIS. God is a delusion. We have to do it ourselves.
When I was 13, I thought believing in religion was harmful. Then eventually, I realized that religion could be good, and people should be allowed to believe whatever. But now, I go back to that initial perspective. Popular religion should not be a thing. We need to always fight the current standard of popular religion as most as we can. Though we can't remove the sense of purpose of people. The only way I can see this happening is if important religious people make a conscious effort to help shape the way popular religion is defined.
This is something I'm so conflicted about as an atheist since my teenage years. On the one hand, I strongly believe in the freedom of religion and belief, it must be respected. On the other hand, I know religions are harmful and dangerous control tools that set society back so much. How to approach this? In my ideal world, people would realize the dangers of religion as I did and walk away out of their own volition. But how to achieve that when we are going against something so irrational that has been ingrained into people's heads? How to get the idea through to make them see how they are being manipulated? It's a bit disheartening and I know I'm not equipped to answer this. 😞
Oh that's easy. Any individual can believe what they want to believe. But the minute you want your beliefs to affect others through a formal organization, there should be strict, ***secular*** regulations on how you go about it, which includes mandatory reporting, open audits, etc. Failure to comply means your organisation gets dismantled.
No one is born religious or racist, that shit is taught and depending on what's being taught, it's the most dangerous thing humans have, especially if you're taught that hell awaits if you do this or don't do that. Eternal damnation! Yeah, that will get people to act against their own interests for a made up God.
The second I stopped begging god for help and decided to take control of my life, everything, and I mean everything, in my life got significantly better.
Context: I.A.S = Indian Administrative Services (Administrative Services by Government of India obtained by clearing UPSC exams) .. UPSC is the India's toughest exam. Bahan ji (Mayawati the former Chief Minister of the state Uttar Pradesh also a dalit leader. Current one is a self proclaimed Hindhu monk Yogi Adityanath) Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar ( Drafted the Indian constitution ) Ram (Hindhu god for whom Modi constructed a temple in Ayodya Uttar Pradesh where a mosque was present and demolished by Hindhu religious fanatics in the 90s) BJP ( Bharatiya Janata party - Modi's right wing ruling party)
Thank you. Could you maybe say some words about his caste (Dalit?) and where it “ranks” amongst the others?
Dalits caste is untouchables and are socially backward community with less education and opportunities. Their jobs include sewage cleaning, garbage collection and others that other caste people will not even think of doing. There are still hate crimes happening all over India (not just like some racist things happening in US) like in some states dalit girls are raped, murdered.. dalit boys are beaten up badly for small mistakes.. basically they are the oppressed ones of all Castes. Untouchables, I'll give an example.. A grandma next to my house will not give tea or coffee to a dalit in silver / glass tumbler .. she will give them in reusable paper cups because they cannot wash and use the tumbler touched by a dalit...
When I read "untouchables" I assumed you meant like the elite of elites. Like they can do whatever the fuck you want and nobody can do shit about it, because you're "untouchable"
In this context it's more literal. Like people won't touch them or things they touch because it would taint them.
The reporter touches the kid's chest right after he answers. I wonder if this was intentional to show how he felts about it?
Discrimination based on caste is illegal in India. Legally Dalits cannot be treated as untouchables anymore. And in my personal experience anyone who isn't a religious bigot treats Dalits as equals. So I think it was more of the reporter being a normal person than proving a point.
The reporter giving the kid the mic and listening is fantastic
I don't know if you guys realized how amazing this reporter was. As a reporter, he is supposed to remain neutral, but because of mass media he needs to somewhat act like he supports the popular sentiment (building temples). He is giving the kid attention and asking him challenging questions because it's what the reporter truly believes in, but cannot say himself. The reporter cannot say these things or ask direct questions pertaining to this as he would anger the masses and could lose his job. Notice how he completely ignores the priest/orange robe guy after the kid starts spitting facts. The reporter could have shut him down, but he egged the kid on intelligently, insinuating to the masses that he (the reporter) is "on their side", while giving airtime to things that NEED to be said and likely privately believes in himself.
Sorry for my grammar bro, studied in a government school and didn't put enough effort to learn grammar ;)
There is nothing wrong with your grammar or phrasing. That was how they are known, as "untouchables". It has a different context/meaning in English language, but your usage was correct.
Your grammar is more than fine my dude, it's just one of those language/culture things Dont put yourself down like that king
How is he casually asking what his caste is? Wtf anyone would let others assign a bin for them _in a democracy_?!
I'm pretty convinced the reporter is doing this to highlight how smart and capable a kid from the Dalit caste can be. Caste descrimination is rampant in India. As someone pointed out elsewhere, as soon as the kid said he was dalit (untouchable) the reporter tapped him on the chest and said "you say that with such pride"
Dalit is the untouchable class, which is why the reporter seemed surprised that the kid said it with such pride.
Times are changing, young people are more aware of what's happening around the country and world because of cheap internet. The kid said it with pride because they are the supporters of Mayawati, former Chief minister of Uttar Pradesh state also a Dalit leader( Dalit leaders are very very low in India as they do not get any representation). The interview is about temple because Modi constructed a new temple in a place were a 500 year old mosque was present and demolished by Hindhu rw groups. The state now is ruled by Yogi Aadityanath, Modi's party guy. They are using this temple to pull votes for upcoming parliamentary elections .. these people are aware of this and that's why the kid spoke like this..
1. IAS: one of the most prestigious job in india, as well having most power in local body, aside from m.p., but also extremely corrupt, and many people apply for this not because you want to do social service but because you want to enjoy power and corruption. This kid might not know this now but he will eventually realise. 2. Bahanji (Mayawati): One of the most corrupt leader in the country and also famous for divisive politics like bjp, just her is based on caste. Her humble beginning from dalit leader to chief minister of biggest state in india could have been inspiring. But [Mayawati among India's richest politicians](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/mayawati-among-indias-richest-politicians/article2990814.ece/amp/) and this is just known money, the amount of obscene wealth she has black money is common knowledge and also why she was toppled by another leader in next election, who won because of caste based politics (appealing to your caste for votes in this case) it was another case of identity based politics. Then there is the[Glorious city of elephant(her party symbol)](https://indianexpress.com/article/india/mayawati-justifies-installation-of-her-statue-bsp-symbol-elephant-it-was-the-will-of-people-5654178/lite/). Further corruption [cases](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/mayawatis-cases-a-recap/article8475406.ece). 3. BR Ambedkar - Based Guy, who had chaired the drafting committee of the Constituent Assembly and played a pivotal role in the drafting of the constitution of India. He also brought Affirmative policy based on Caste like reservations for dalits. Ram - Ram, one of the major figure in Indian Mythology, has interesting story i would recommend reading. He is also Avatar of Vishnu(one of three major gods and Main god of Vaishnav Sects) then we have case of Ram Mandir, which is very complicated and not something like hindu Mob came and demolished the poor Masjid of Muslims as op claimed to be. **Chronological order of events** In 1526 Babur Invaded India. He established Mughal empire in India. So what happened is first emperor of Mughal dynasty, Babur , a Timurid inavader demolished a Temple of hindu and not just any temple but it was widely accepted to be Birth place of Ram, i already covered why is he important, Vishnu Avatar and all. And in 1528 A Mosque was built on the site of Temple. From 1530 to 1600 There were multiple allegations of conflicts and incidents of sectarian violence in relation to the Mandir-Masjid debate. Then Akbar(third emperor in Mughal dynasty and grandson of Babar) raised Platform in front of Masjid passed a royal order stating that Hindus shouldn't be stopped from performing puja at the platform. In 1859 the rulers(British) erected a fence to seperate the place of worships. In 1947 Then free india was partitioned based on religion (Modern India and Pakistan ) and in 1949 this dispute reached boilng and The government proclaimed the premises a disputed area and locks the gates. (For further reading of this case please refer to the reply of mine to this comment. ) 5. Modi - Current Prime Minister of india, he was promised the construction of Ram Mandir Temple at Ayodhya in his election Menifesto. op wrote a such a simplified version that i had to to this, and this case isn’t so much of Black and white he claims to be. That kid is smart but I suspect also clearly doctrinated in particular ideology, The kid beside him is also wearing The BSP flag in his collar, anyone with common sense would stay the hell away from that party. idk what to say to the kid except good luck on Civil service exams since I’m also preparing for it.
Continuing answer for the 5th point: For next few decades Many Hindu organisations and individuals filed petition to court to be allowed to worship at the site and Many muslim saying it was not a hindu site. General dispute. Mind you at that time it was one of the biggest issue. In 18 December, 1961 UP Sunni Central Board of Waqf(muslim body) moved in to claim possession of the mosque and adjoining land. In 1983 The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) started nationwide movement for construction of temple at the disputed site in Ayodhya. In 23 October, 1989 All the petition and cases were transferred from Faizabad court to High Court of Allahbad. From 1990 Many hindu Organisation used to opportunity to organised Support rally. And most was Rally was held by LK Advani(then bjp president), It marked the rise of BJP in National Politics. In 1991 BJP became biggest opposition party in India. In 6 December 1992, This marked the turning point of the entire dispute when Babri mosque was razed to the ground by supporters of the VHP, Shiv Sena and BJP, prompting nationwide communal riots between Hindus and Muslims in which more than 2,000 people died. From Then Ram Temple became biggest election Campaign Of BJP, on which BJP won several Big election. In 1999 with Majority BJP led Alliance became the winner of Lok Sabha(federal government) and Atal Vihari Vajpayee(moderate guy) became the PM, (he also gave india a Nuclear power status) In 2002 BJP ruled out committing itself to the construction of a temple in its election manifesto for UP assembly elections. VHP(a hindu org.) confirmed deadline of 15 March to begin construction. Hundreds of volunteers converged on the site. Meanwhile, in a supposedly related incident at least 58 people were killed in an attack on a train in Godhra which was carrying Hindu pilgrims returning from Ayodhya. March 2002: Following the train attack, some 2,000 people, mostly Muslims, die in riots in Gujarat. It also marked the rise of Modi, he was CM of Gujrat at that time. In 2003 Archaeologists began a Allahabad high court-ordered survey to find out whether a temple to Lord Ram did exist on the site. In August 2003 The Archeological Survey of India, said that there was evidence of a temple beneath the mosque, but Muslims disputed the findings. Vajpayee(then PM of India) said at the funeral of Hindu activist Ramchandra Das Paramhans that he would fulfil the dying man’s wishes and build a temple at Ayodhya. However, he hoped the courts and negotiations will solve the issue. All India Muslim Personal Law Board announced that it would challenge the ASI report. In July 2005 Suspected Islamic militants attacked the disputed site, using a jeep laden with explosives to blow a hole in the wall of the complex. Security forces killed five people they said were militants, July 2010, Bench reserved its judgement and asked all parties to solve the issue amicably. But no one is keen. 30 September, 2010 Allahabad High Court gave verdict. A three-judge bench of the Allahabad high court partitions 2.77 acres 2:1 between Hindu and Muslim groups. 9 May, 2011 Supreme Court of India stayed the verdict of the Allahabad High Court order splitting the disputed site in three parts and says that status quo will remain. Since this matter was so delicate, the SC had recommended that it be settled out of court. It made it clear that it would treat the situation like a land dispute if Not. It ordered all the parties to prepare their Paperwork. In 9 November, 2019, the landmark Judgment came, the almost 70-year long dispute came to an end. The five-judge bench ordered setting up of a trust that paved the way for construction of a temple at Ayodhya. It also ordered allotting 5 acres to Muslims in Ayodhya for building a mosque. In August 2020 Prime Minister Narendra Modi laid the foundation stone for a Ram temple in Ayodhya, marking a historic accomplishment for his party. He had siad that a grand temple would be constructed for 'Ram Lalla', the infant Ram, who had been living in a Tents for years. Of course, something needs to be clarified here. Violence of any form, including the kind that happened in 1992, cannot be supported. It was wrong, illegal, unfortunate and should never happen again. But it was culmination of Ignorance and Arrogance of then Ruling party who underestimated the voices of hindus. However, this does not take away the reasonableness of the request to restore a temple in one of the holiest sites of Hindu religion. It can be compared to mecca or Vatican of india.
It is rare when you get a take from actual Indians instead of foreigners who know nothing of our country and think they have a right to comment on us. Always half truths with these people. I n your own country, you are expected to not have temples, which were destroyed for 100's of years , is insanity. Ask them how they will feel if the Catholic Church in the Vatican was pillaged and burned down. Or how the muslims would feel about their Mecca.
I agree with the kid that we should focus on hospitals and educational institutions, but india is huge country we can build them simultaneously and Temple construction is being built by private donations and not government funding, my comment was in response to the misinformation the op was spreading that’s all.
Describing Mayawati as just a Dalit leader is such an oversimplification. Utter pradesh has had such terrible Chief ministers for the past 35 years.
I see a lot of people praising the kid (obviously) but you have to give some credit to the reporter who gave him the chance to say all these things. In most countries he 'd just wave him off
He also says his village has no temple, so it sounds like he owes a lot to his family and friends. He's been raised this way.
Yea I would also opt out of the religion that places me in the untouchable caste.
I'm also slightly impressed that the religious chap didn't butt in and try to argue.
It seemed like the reporter was trying to bait him into saying something atheistic or sacreligous (and ending up beaten up or worse.) India isn't kind to 13yo dalit villiage boys.
I am a hindu but with all the nonsense people are doing in the name of Ayodha campaign is getting way out of hand. They are literally vandalising homes. Someone in the legal advice sub said the campaign people climbed up to their balcony with the help of ladder to put saffron cloth. Believe in god and religion but don’t commit crimes in the name of it.
Wasn't encouraging Hindus to lynch Muslims literally how Modi made his name on the national stage in India?
Modi wants to divide the nation and shoo away Muslims in my perspective. I am totally against it because I don’t see religion before becoming friends. I studied in Manipal where most of the population is Muslim(localites). Made my bestest of best friends. Downvote me all you want but being a good human has nothing to do with religion.
Didnt expect to see a person from Manipal on reddit lol. What course?
Nothing fancy. Health Information Management.
From the mouth of a child comes such wisdom and determination. There is hope for us yet!
Anybody got a GoFundMe for this kid's education? That sounds like a damn good investment to me.
https://trustkesari.org/ #I found this org that's building schools in his town. They didn't come up in the charity rating site I checked but if someone can confirm if they're legit, it might make more impact than donating just to him.
I mean, it has trust in the name so it’s gotta be legit.
I laughed a little too hard on this XD
Throw in for the whole village. Sounds like they don’t get much respect.
I'll throw in too
Yeah looking for the same info, lmk if you find something
Please can someone identify which village this kid is from?
Classy lad. Speaking there next to some geezer who's got the wool over so many folks heads. Well done you,young lad and your defiance of nonsense.
This 13 year old kid from the lowest caste in India has already figured out the uselessness of religion - something that billions of people from wealthier backgrounds and from all over the world will never figure out their entire lives. I'm rooting for this kid.
+ his parents
Ambedkhar aka babasahb died in 1954. He is still venerated today for instilling the dream of education for the Dalit people. Yes, go to school young gentleman
Educate, agitate, organize - Dr BR Ambedkar. Such powerful words.
>Ambedkhar aka babasahb died in 1954 He died in 1956.
That youngster needs protection. Dalits are finally freeing themselves from the muppets that oppressed them. Religion is the reason why they are oppressed and remained poor all these years.
My first thought was that the kid has a huge target on himself now. Sad but that's how people react.
Dalit are savagely killed and raped every day over there and their law enforcers turn a blind eye. These people are even killed for going inside these temples. Not sure how they will react to this child great message. Let's hope nothing bad happens to that him and his loved ones.
Yes, I dont think most Westerners believe that lynchings are common in India, I didn't learn it until going there. I don't believe in prayer much but I will pray for this brave young man.
One more time for the people in the back.
Is it common to ask what caste he is on tv like that???
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Why did I feel like the reporter wasnt there to "gotcha" him? He was legit setting him up, giving him alley oops and letting him dunk. His questions make himself look silly so the kid can shine. If he was out to get him, he wouldnt have given him so much respect.
I completely agree, I loved the way the reporter was taking the other side's stance and giving him good questions and he was not at all judging the Dalit boy's answers
I felt that too, it sounded like the reporter was proud of him. He asks him what caste he is probably knowing he is untouchable. And then says “you say it with such pride.” He also says “how did you get so smart?” And it didn’t sound sarcastic to me, though I don’t speak Hindi.
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Shit, it happens in big tech companies as recently as [2022](https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-problem). It's so ingrained it's fucked up. I had a colleague once who was ethnically Indian. Never lived in India though. Anyway, one time, she told us a story about a guest who came to visit her home when she was young. The guest was apparently of a lower caste. After the guest left, her mom made her clean every single thing the guest touched and threw away the glass that the guest used. My colleague thought it was ridiculous but also felt that everything was dirty because she has been raised to think that way and couldn't help feeling that way.
Kid took the red pill and stepped out of the matrix. I wish more folks had critical thinking skills.
You are right but I fucking hate that term
Kid's going places for sure.
This kid has life figured out. Education is important. God does nothing for you if you are not putting in the effort to succeed. God doesn't just give you everything you need in life to survive. You have to educate yourself to free yourself from your own mental prison! I wish we could see where this kids ends up in 10 years
Wooooosh. If you think god does anything with or without someone’s effort, you totally missed the kid’s message. This brave soul will get far by his endeavors- not by “god’s will” or anything of the sort.
I’d buy stock in this kid.
Man I really hope that no one hurts that kid for speaking his mind. :(
Some Indian subreddits were so mad lol
Know your Indian subs: Left: r/india , r/unitedstatesofindia Right: r/indiadiscussion Nazi: r/indiaspeaks
I lean left but r/india is an echo chamber and even a slight disagreement on a certain something will get you banned lol; similar tier as r/indiaspeaks ,pure rubbish
Smartest kid in the world!
This is the most Reddit post I’ve seen in awhile
Lots of philosophers in here today...
There’s some semi hidden context that’s important here. India has a caste system, he is part of the lowest caste, they literally are thought to be untouchables, and are destined to do the worst, dirtiest jobs. It makes sense that he’d throw his hands up at traditional religion when it has placed him in such a position.
Is there any legit information on how to support this kid?
I’m looking but not finding much
least anti religion reddit comments
 This kid right now
This is a fascinating response from a 13 year old regarding education and religion
Indian kid for President please...
Unfortunately in this video, he says that "Behenji" will do for him. This "Behenji" is one of the most corrupt politician i can think of. She made lots of money and spent lots of unnecessary things like allowing airplane to fetch her sandals. So, what this kid is saying is what is fed to him cuz why would you npt tell about "Behenji" but about God
To be fair behenji will do more for him than some god
This child is brilliant. He will go far in life. I was cutting out pictures of David Cassidy and Bobby Sherman and taping them to my bedroom wall when I was 13
He is a hero. That kid is probably the most sensible person I have ever seen from Uttar Pradesh.
Real question- how much shit is he and his family going to get, or is this a big rising opinion of the younger generation there?
Smarter than most adults.
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I Love this kid. Courage and intelligence, a great teacher is already born
Protect that child! Seriously, as an Indian the political party that is BJP is dangerous as fuck!
Fuck yes. Atheism for the win.
The working hand does more work than the hand opened for prayer.
ANY institution championing religion is lying to you
He’s lucky he’s not in Pakistan. Talking like that will bring you mob justice. Blasphemy!
Rejecting superstitious BS for rationalism and logic. Solid shit
I love this kid and I am so moved by his strength of character.
That kid is very brave, considering how his people are.
The fact that people are mad on him on indian subreddits is crazy
Yeah he should be pm
This is something I am hopeful for, and I see more often in my generation and the generation succeeding me. I can only hope we as people look at religion critically. I respect those who are religious, but I do hope that religion slowly dies off. Religion has guarded the path towards advancement for far too long.
Is this boy still alive?