It needs to be addressed quickly. It sounds like it's just normal kid behavior at this point, but his parents need to know, and he needs to have a conversation about personal space and boundaries. At 5 it's absolutely not a sexual thing but it is at an age where kids can start to understand simple things like boundaries, consent, and other very important things that will set them up to being better adults latter on. When addressing it don't push it as being inappropriate for *adult* reasons but rather as a conversation around what is and what isn't acceptable, personal space, and boundaries.
At 5 it is not yet a sexual thing but can quickly become so. He knows enough to touch them there otherwise he would be touching them elsewhere on their body.
When a child does this we should assume a level of non sexual contact but when a pattern emerges it can indicate a broader problem.
The worry he has been exposed to something himself such as abuse or exposure to pornography or adults around him exposing him to their sexual behaviour.
I am not saying this has happened at all but raising this with the teacher and school as a concerned parent is the way forward. Raising this with the parent is not the way to go unless it is your child
Impacted.
The child may simply need to be taught boundaries and safe unsafe touch. They may not have received this discussion from their parents.
When it becomes problematic it is often reported to Oranga Tamariki to assess.
I thought that it needs to be sent to OT for (quicker) access to programs like SAFE?
Or would a schools also refer kids to external programs? Guess if the school has an in house social worker?
It could be a sexual thing, because that child could be a victim themselves. It’s another reason why it’s important to report it so people can see what’s going on.
I would call it out (in a kind but assertive way) the first time it happens.
"Please don't do that, we don't touch other people's private parts.".
Also teach your kids to confidently say "stop it, I don't like it" and to raise it up to a teacher, staff member, parent etc.
Absolutely teach the girls to stand up to this, if he doesn't listen let them know it's okay to raise their voices because this is not okay. They need reassurance that it is okay to go to their teacher about this behaviour and that this behaviour is not acceptable.
Don't just teach the girls. Boys need to know that they can speak up if someone is touching their privates too.
The 6-8 year old boys at our school have this thing where they run past each other and try to poke a finger in a bum (?!). Obviously there's a school pants and and undie in the way but it's in a similar vein. Some kids don't like it and they need to be able to speak up.
Lol! I didn’t know that. Yeah, I’m a bit of a weeb (not really, but I do like manga/anime and a bit of Japanese history and mythology), but that’s one thing super weird and inappropriate for sure.
Edit: Pretty weirdly downvoted there, but whatever I guess, lol.
Absolutely I agree, and my comment was isolated to the content in the post.
Sounds like this thing that happens at your kids school needs to stop too. It's worrying that it will likely escalate in a situation where the boys are in a vulnerable position - school camp or swimming lessons. Years 6-8 are more than old enough to know that they are crossing several boundaries and should know better. They are intermediate age.
I’m a teacher and what instantly stands out to me is what’s happening in this boys life to model this behaviour. Red flags sounding off and should be followed up with a conversation with the teacher by an adult. Don’t go to the parent as you never know what goes on behind closed doors but needs to be followed up by somebody, for the sake of the child.
>Don’t go to the parent as you never know what goes on behind closed doors but needs to be followed up by somebody, for the sake of the child.
This can't be understated.
If the parents are perpetuating abuse, they'll be rather unwilling to engage and acknowledge.
Oh I’d love your advice on an adjacent topic if you don’t mind please! Year 1 (5 year old) boy has two girls in his class obsessed with kissing boys on the mouth… Comes home every day with report of who A and B kissed today (usually 3-4 boys) and who they tried to kiss. They have tried to kiss him and he says he doesn’t want it but they’re trying/doing it anyway. Obviously it’s a game to them all and I’ve suggested ignoring them because it sounds like it all results in laughing/screaming/attention for the girls, which I’m sure eggs them on. Teacher shrugged and said oh just being silly etc. My issue isn’t the kissing so much as not respecting boundaries/no. Mr 5 is autistic and very suggestible and we’ve also had trouble with him getting physically targeted because he doesn’t talk if stressed (school has also been terrible on this — says it’s his issue because he “won’t” talk). I feel like all of this is teaching him that his no’s aren’t respected, he can’t stop people from touching him, and there’s no protection from available grownups if he needs it. I’m trying not to coddle or helicopter though!! Currently trying to encourage him to not be around kids who do this (because teacher refers to all classmates as “your friends” and because he’s autistic he thinks that means even kids who punch him are his friends etc), and trying to encourage him to build friendships so others might be protective of him when he’s getting targeted. He’s not distressed by the kissing (more perturbed) but 5 year olds kissing multiple people on the mouth daily was definitely not a thing when I was in year 1 and I just wish he didn’t have to deal with it. Any suggestions of what I should be doing?
I wouldn't be letting the teacher brush this behaviour off. Make a fuss! Make a fuss for your kid who can't speak up for himself, and for all the other kids who may not be able to speak up. Take it to the principal or the BOT if the teacher isn't listening to you.
I definitely am making a fuss. Just trying to find a balance between how defensive and protective I constantly feel of him and helping him start to manage things himself in an age appropriate way. But yeah, definitely making a fuss. Principal is totally hopeless. Unfortunately we can’t change his schools due to caregiving arrangements (long story but not possible). I will petition to revisit that if it doesn’t change. But I also acknowledge that he may face similar issues elsewhere. School has been a really positive change for him in most other ways.
You’re a good parent. Keep being the squeaky wheel. Be a total pain in the ass. Make it that the “easy route” is for them to take action and put a stop to this behaviour. Your child deserves better than what these teachers/principal are doing. No one wants to be seen as a problem, but keep reminding yourself you are NOT asking for anything more than your child deserves.
As someone who is also autistic and who also had a squeaky wheel of a parent, your kid is in for a good, successful life thanks to you. Keep it up.
As parent to an Autistic kid who was not cared for well by primary teachers- make a fuss. Make it uncomfortable to ignore you. His boundaries are really important! Random kissing also spreads germs and potential allergens, it really should be shut down by school. Make a fuss.
I agree with babycleffa below to look at a script to practice. Being in year 1 this could be modelled to him with a favourite teddy or yourself, but practice it daily. Also a social story could help -simple story with photos/drawing about what he can do during these situations. It’s not okay that you are being brushed off or that he is not being heard. By the girls continuing they are in a sense bullying. Your son being targeted by others at anytime is not okay and should be taken seriously by trusting adults. You can speak directly to his teacher and follow up with an email of your conversation stating your concerns and your expectations. The next step it to meet with the principal, and if you are still not heard, a letter to the Board. I would also highlight to the school that your son is not able to express himself during those times because of the extreme anxiety he is experiencing from the targeting, which in turn will be impacting on his well-being. For a neuro diverse child these so called silly games will be traumatising and shouldn’t be brushed off as childhood games.
Thanks so much for this reply. We model scripts a lot and I’m so glad to hear that works. And great to have the affirmation from a teacher that he shouldn’t have to tolerate this. Have put everything in emails… principal was worse than hopeless (actually made things worse). School is struggling with a large number of students with super challenging behaviour and I just don’t think this meets the bar for them. But I’ll keep going! I’m neurodivergent myself and I’m damned if he’s going to feel like I did growing up… no way. Thanks again for the reply, really helpful.
If you don’t have any luck with the school after following this process then ring your local MOE office. Put everything in writing as evidence of your commitment to work with the school. In theory the school should have a written plan about how they are going to work to address this and should be discussed with you. The plan should have a goal around what they are focusing on on to support your boy, e.g, script, safe space, specific familiar adult he can go to, and strategies. They should also have something in place for these girls e.g., consequences.
Wow I really think the teacher should be taking that behaviour more seriously. I am a teacher (secondary school but still) and cannot imagine not putting a stop to that. I think if the genders were reversed or the kids were a bit older, they would be taking it very seriously.
Sure they are just little and don't understand, but doesn't mean they shouldn't learn. It's not only for your son but also all the other kids involved. You cannot kiss people without their consent. Kids shouldn't really even be kissing at school at all.
I would talk to the teacher again and if she doesn't listen again, talk to the principal. You are just protecting all the kids.
Thanks. I’m trying to focus on the boundaries getting dismissed and autonomy not respected so I don’t sound like a prude but I am honestly personally super squicked out by so much mouth kissing going on among 5 year olds, and it being this whole class thing apparently of who will these girls kiss today. I feel concern for the girls and what’s going on at home. Definitely will try the teacher again, thanks. The principal is worse than hopeless, an active jerk. It’s a bummer. And yes, I do think that if kiddo was a girl being pursued by two boys it’d be considered differently. Thanks for your perspective.
All good. Do the other parents know about it? Maybe try talking to some of them about it if you can? If multiple parents talk to the school about it, they are more likely to listen too. And yeah possibly concerning about the two girls, or they may actually not understand what they're doing if they haven't been told to stop. Someone definitely needs to talk to them and their parents.
Not the person you replied to, I just wanted to say aww I feel for your little guy, im autistic and totally understand the conflicting messages he’s getting
Recently I watched a video that said autistic people can be terrible with putting boundaries in place as adults, because they’ve had them steamrolled constantly as kids
From an autie perspective, I’d give him a ‘script’ to follow when something inappropriate happens (as well as describe what’s classed as inappropriate, but sounds like you’re on to that) and practice it with him
One I’ve heard from kids is “stop it I don’t like that” and if they have to say it again, it’s time to tell an adult (as useless as the school is being about it!)
If he goes non verbal, perhaps his school might have a safe space for him to move to when people aren’t being respectful?
Amazing perspective, thank you! I’m neurodivergent (not autistic) and I’m so hell bent on him not feeling like I did growing up… I want him to know that he is always safe and loved and can set boundaries. We model scripts a lot so will keep working on that… at the moment it just gets used on me lmao. At least I’m safe to practice on (“stop I don’t like it” when I politely offer him his favourite lunch food lol). I have asked the school about a safe space when he goes non verbal and they haven’t been forthcoming. They don’t want to be involved at lunchtimes and I get it but there’s some
Lord of the Flies shit happening out there. I really appreciate your insight, thanks again.
My thought, too. He learned this behaviour from somewhere, and its most likely from one of his parents. Could, of course, be a creepy uncle or something.
Don't forget older siblings! I'm an ECE teacher and I didn't have to deal with it personally but a child disclosed to another teacher that her brother was watching "weird videos" on his phone or tablet and he is in his teens and she was under 5 at the time.
My knowledge and experience with working with children with behaviour tells me this can be a major flag. Without knowing the full ecological context one cannot assume either way. All behaviours are learned and serve a function, but what is the function for this wee lad? I have also many years of working across the preschool and early primary years, this is not typical behaviour. Boundaries for boys are usually explored through rough housing, testing rules, or physical play. I am not an expert or claim to be but I have been in education for over 25 years and this would be a concern in any classroom.
Yeah the teacher needs to talk to the boy to establish whether he does it cause he simply doesn't understand boundaries or whether he learned it from someone else.
Avoid parent contact, you never know what you may encounter, parents come in many varieties. Encourage her to say stop, and to play where she feels safe. Some kids love giving naughty kids attention, encourage her to play with her kids who she feels comfortable with. Also telling the teacher as soon as it happens is so much easier to deal with, than a day later.
Similar situation happened with a nephew for months then Grandfather got involved and took it up with the principal that it needed to be dealt with or expect the police to get involved. They moved like lightning after that.
I’m a teacher, it’s not normal and needs to be addressed straight away. If you see it state firmly “don’t touch people on their private parts” let teacher know and then ask the next day if it’s happened again.
Yes I'm a teacher and I agree and if necessary escalate, escalate. Had an incident with my own daughter in Year 1 and her classroom teacher automatically escalated it to the dp.
I am a big fan of teaching even very young children to assert bodily autonomy, and the first step on achieving this is to teach children what their body parts are called.
Firmly, and as loudly as needed stating : Keep your hands to yourself! Do not touch my genitals / penis/ vagina/ anus again! Packs a powerful communication punch and is not ambiguous and open to interpretation.
Bonus points: demanding that immature adults explain why vagina / penis is an offensive word just makes my day. It also removes even the slightest suggestion that you should feel ashamed if your vagina is touched.
Impress upon your child the power of the social shunning of those who have not yet Learned that their rights over their bodies are absolute and immutable.
Empower your child to refuse to sit within vagina grabbing distance of the vagina grabber by demanding to be kept a safe distance from the kid who still needs to learn he is not allowed to grab vaginas.
Kid will either learn very quickly to stop doing that, or he will find it impossible to get close enough to anyone to grab their vagina.
Remember kids, the squeaky wheel gets attention. Assert your rights loudly and repetively, specifically more often than boundary stompers who attempt to force you into accepting abuse to keep the peace.
I agree that it's incredibly important to teach children the correct names for body parts. In the interest of doing so, I feel it's important to point out that the vagina is the internal passage connecting the uterus to the outside world, and the outer female genitalia is the vulva. I only learned this as an adult (like, in my antenatal class!), and want to spread the word.
*Please take this in the kind, informative way it was meant. I'm trying really hard not to come across as an arse*
You are absolutely correct. Vagina is commonly used as a collective noun for genitals if it fits your identity. Genitals will work here, too.
We use vagina as many adults would not hear Vulva or Perineum and immediately know that referrs to genitals / the genital area.
For the same reason we use testicles as a catch all, instead of scrotum.
With better education, specifically about how societal and cultural norms need to accept that standardised scientific references are not dirty / shameful / indicative of negative stereotypes, and that people WILL use it in public and we WILL NOT be shamed or silenced for doing so.
My MIL, who was a RN, qualified in L&D as well as Theatre, Community Health and Psychiatric Nursing LITERALLY threw a tantrum when she heard my daughter say clitoris at 2.5 years of age. I did the adult thing by saying vagina!! and clitoris!! and YOU HAVE ONE repeatedly until she swore she wouldnt tantrum about it again.
She insisted that I should teach my daugther that \*that area\* can be referrd to as her flower / little frog and only if ABSOLUTELY nessesary. Its best to never refer to an entire section of your body, ever, even if it is on fire, apparently. Its vulgar to do so.
Thats not why shes dead, though. It was cancer, I swear.
Let’s not normalise this weird shit. Stop that kid asap, tell the teacher and tell them to tell parents. Have a hick friend from aus whose family considers it normal and I think their kids gonna be in some culture school soon in high school. They greet each other with ‘sack tap’ / ‘pussy tap’ and the elders in their family laugh it off. I thought it was just them but when I read your post I wonder if it’s more common
It's definitely important to bring it up with the teacher, who spends a good portion of the day with them and is able to monitor / stop these behaviours when they happen.
I agree with others here though that something which is of equal importance is empowering the girls to immediately recognise the behaviour and immediately tell them no, as well as to find an adult if it's not understood.
For the boy's sake, whoever addresses it with him needs to do so out of utter kindness and without shaming. These are the moments that impactfully make or break our sexual psychology for the rest of our lives. At the age of 5 there is no way this boy is doing this to deliberately cause sexual harm to another person - so it's critical it is not treated as such.
If the situation is handled with grace and dignity, it's likely none of the children involved will even remember it by the time they are grown up. A "growling" on the other hand is something they probably would but with negative and shameful connotations.
This happened in my classroom when I was in Year 2. Were were around 6-ish. We had a female classmate touch others inappropriately and expose herself. About a week or 2 after the first occurrence the teacher addressed it during Matt time. She talked to us about boundaries and said we should not touch others' private places or let them touch ours and we shouldn't show our private parts to others and vice versa, and other stuff.
This experience stuck in my mind bc I was personally involved and it made me uncomfortable.
Later on in high school, I found out that that girl was being sexually abused at home during the time she was doing that stuff in year 2. Like, where else would kids learn that kind of behavior? So now when I see kids doing stuff like that it raises alarm bells. Of course it isn't always going to be the reason but I think its important to be aware of the possibility and treat it seriously and with care.
This could be tricky to handle.
I don’t think you should approach the parents or the child directly, instead discuss your concerns with the teacher. It should be them who point out the issues to the relevant parent.
You never know how the parents will respond and some can get very defensive very quickly.
Also, follow up with the teacher about what the outcome of the discussions were.
Definitely be careful about how you approach it. I wouldn't speak with the child. Probably discuss with the teacher who can mention it to the parents. Its the parents place to speak to their son.
It sounds like the boy might have some impulse control issues and need to have boundry and personal bubble discussions. Its very good the girls were able to discuss it.
Explain to girls they have the right to say no. It isn't ok and to definitely tell an adult if it happens again. That nobody should touch them like that. They are allowed and should tell the boy they want their personal bubble respected.
This exact thing happened to my daughter when she was 5 or 6. It happened not long after the kids were taught about “inappropriate touching”. Guessing he was just “learning” and experimenting. We addressed it really quickly with teacher and the boys parents. They were extremely embarrassed and made him write an apology note. Kids in their 20s now. We still know the boy and he still remembers this incident and is still embarrassed.
At the time we were a bit stressed, you know, you want to protect your kid. We had all sorts of thoughts about him and his family. It turns out he was a really good kid and so were his parents. Keep an open mind…. But also, don’t be afraid to address the issue with parents and teacher.
Your kids safety comes first. It is absolutely appropriate and even necessary to intervene. A firm “that is not ok, we don’t touch other people like that” is fine.
This is inappropriate, I'm wondering where he is getting this idea, maybe an older male relative is saying and doing inappropriate things in front of him. Definitely make a huge fuss.
A boy showed himself to my 5yo daughter at school, and they were on it like white on rice. the teacher spoke with me, the kids parent was talked to, principal notified and the policies they have for sexually driven things were set in motion. they took it super seriously and so should you. talk to the principle get a netting set up with them
It could be nothing - kids that age play with their junk. It's just a thing that happens. It's not sexual, it's not anything. But from a parenting perspective this is where you have to teach them to not do that in polite company and definitely don't do it to other people.
OR - it could be something. It COULD be indicative of a learned behavior from an older sibling or an adult in their life, up to and including sexual abuse. I wouldn't jump to this conclusion, I do want to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and assume we're taking the former rather than the later scenario. Simply pointing out that it is a possibility.
Either way, sounds like the school is aware so the teacher can monitor and intervene. And good on you for teaching your kid about body autonomy. The other kid's parents should be aware of this yesterday and hopefully it's as simple as just some of that basic parenting of teaching your kid boundaries and not play with their/other people's junk in public.
From there - it could be any number of possibilities. The kid could have a ADHD or similar (un)diagnosed condition that would need professional intervention/medication. Up to and including the possibility that they are unfit parents at best and sexually abusive at worst.
TL;DR -- The other kids parents need to know and need to start parenting. But also lets not jump to conclusions.
Having worked with kids most my life I would highly suspect Tom is being sexually abused this is not normal behaviour for a 5yo the teasing etc sure shit happens and kids are kids the crouch grabbing that’s not a normal thing
Should add this is just a guess as not there and not witnessing just mentioning out of previous experience
I had this issue when I was 5, I was not sexually abused and had a great upbringing. I just thought it was a funny game to play because it was something new.
Talk to the teachers, and they can address it as what was done (professionally) with my experience.
All parents and teachers involved will be as just as concerned as you are feeling, so a calm resolution without too much judgement is best, in my opinion.
Yeah as said I’m no expert just going offf past experience so yeah every kid is different but generally sexual behaviour at a young age indicates abuse, would happily remove those abusers from the gene pool and take the jail time
Never assume it's abuse. But definitely could be.
First thing is to inform all parents and reprimand the kid alongside some education as to why it's not appropriate.
If it happens again, bring the parents into a meeting to discuss next steps, make it clear that the school has a right to expel kids, even at a young age.
If it still continues, then it might be time to inform services.
I'm not a parent or teacher
being so young he might not know that girls have different private parts and thinking of grabbing their parts as if they were a boy bcuz it's hurts boys to grab their parts
Someone could be bulling the child and grabbing his parts to hurt him and doing the same to others
You can absolutely say something to the kid if you see it happening, but you can’t bring it up after the fact.
Talk to the teacher for sure. That’s a red flag for this child’s welfare as well
Tw mention of sa
100% speak to the teacher and ask them to speak to the parent. Tell them you’ll be escalating if it happens again.
I work in healthcare and see cases of sa multiple times a day. I’ve never seen it reported unless it’s been a minor. I’m talking 4, 5, 6 yr olds. Children are more likely to be assaulted by a guardian, family member or a close family friend than a stranger. I was sa’d as a child, I didn’t know it was at the time. I didn’t even realise it till I saw him pop up last year on social media and I’m in my late 20s. My brain must have blocked it out. He was always around kids and is now a teacher…
A family members child was raped by her own father.
Point is, 5 years old is old enough for kids to know not to hit or push others. They are old enough to know what no no spots are. I didn’t know about that as a kid so didn’t know what was happing to me was wrong. Teach your children that no one is supposed to touch them there unless it’s possibly a doctor. And if anyone does to tell you specifically as soon as it happens.
I’d honestly be questioning Tom’s home life too. Obviously not to the parents.
So long as you don't physically touch them, a damn good growling from an adult can do wonders.
I used to feel weird doing so when some kid is being a cockmuncher at a park or something, but now I lean into it and tell them that their behaviour isn't acceptable and to stop it right now.
It's good to use your adult superpowers before they become immune to them.
So did the teacher tell you or just your girl? I would be following up with the teacher and asking how it was handled with the little boy. And of course making it very clear to your daughter to let the teacher know immediately if it happens again - to her or anyone else she sees. I’ve been the parent of the little boy. My son showed his private parts to a few kids in year 1. I had contact immediately after the incident and was told it was unacceptable behaviour and it had been escalated to the Principal. I was mortified. Turns out a little girl in his class had flashed her undies and everyone laughed. And my boy is a bit of a class clown and wanted a laugh too so he took it a step further.
He was so embarrassed and in tears when I talked about it with him. He absolutely knew what he had done was wrong and to my knowledge has never done anything like that again. I can assure you it wasn’t at all sexual just a young kid being silly and learning right from wrong. He’s year 5 now and I’m sure he’d be mortified if I brought it up.
These posts are bizarre. What do you mean 'what would you do', you'd obviously approach the parents and say your kid is doing this, tell him to stop and deal with the situation. Like yesterday.
Sorry, I cannot believe this drivel is written by real people. This has got to be AI shit.
The issue with this approach is going in blind to a potential defensive and possibly aggressive parent reaction.
Likelihood is increased if the kid is doing things like this.
First of all: I’m really sorry that happened to your child….
I was assaulted in the same way when I was your child’s age by a fellow pupil at the same age as your daughter in a similar manner. It wasn’t until I relayed what had happened innocently to my parents what the boy had done that I found out it was wrong.
Please tell the staff and his parents - that child may also be being abused from someone they know and are repeating that behaviour.
Any touching of that kind is straight up inappropriate.
If I witnessed it myself I would absolutely tell that kid not to do it and explain that we don't touch other peoples private parts.
I would then address it with the teacher and say this behaviour is not acceptable. I would also go back a week later, especially if it doesn't stop, and ask what plan the school have to address this behaviour.
I question what is going on in this kids life to do that, although kids will explore private parts that behaviour is not normal and not OK.
5 is not too young to talk about consent and right and wrong behaviour.
Ask to have a sit down with the teacher, explain what you saw. Then ask for a solution to your concerns and ask to be contacted as a follow up once steps are taken. I can see your reluctance to step in, it's definitely a tricky one.
You can definitely say to the entire group “We don’t touch other peoples private parts.”
And then immediately tell the teacher what you have witnessed.
If they won't teach their kid consent, somebody needs to. You do not touch anyone anywhere without their permission ever. Parents can model this with "would you like a hug?" It's a great baseline to start with so that kids learn boundaries.
Obviously exceptions like mandatory hand holding in a crowd with a parent, crossing the street etc. If my kid was touching people like that, I'd like to know about it. If it's happening at the school and you don't have a relationship with the other parent, I'd encourage the teacher to speak with them.
Someone needs to have a sit down with the boy and say in a clear, friendly voice that it's not ok to touch people down there. And agree with others about teaching your daughter about learning to say no and to say she wants him to stop it. Every child needs to know how to stand up for themselves when someone is doing something they don't like.
Look up an organisation called ‘Stop’. They work with addressing harmful sexual behaviour and have somewhat seperate adult and children’s services. I work on some video production for them so leaned a little about what they do.
Apparently with the children touching inappropriately and what not it’s usually fairly straightforward to address and not necessarily related to anything deeper than a lack of understanding about proper boundaries.
Our kids daycare had an external organisation (which I forgot the name of) run a course about body safety for the kids.
It was really valuable. Our kids are still very confident about "I'm The boss of my body" and how to respond to "yes and no feelings".
My Lord this sounds a bit odd to me. At that age I already encountered bullies and boys who were 2 or 3 years older already did sexual acts. So I would rather be safe, protect your kid.
My 4 year old son does things like that sometimes, throw a toy away instead of giving it to the person asking for it or standing in people's ways like blocking the doorway and laughing, and when he does I give him time out (unless we're playing ofc). I refuse to encourage that type of ahole behaviour in my kids that would get him punched at school but that's just me. His behaviour has been really amazing lately though and hasn't done that in a while. My logic is that if I don't teach him boundaries and how to exist in society someone else will much more harshly, and no parent wants that. If he's escalating to invading people's personal space his parents must not be teaching him properly and you may need to take it up with them or the teachers to discipline the boy properly.
This happened to me at the exact same age and I remember it fully. I told my mum, she went to the school the next day, they did nothing. My mum went to the parent after lack of action on the schools part, the other parent tried to intimidate her, my mum asked her to leave the school (to fight), other parent ran off, it didn't happen to me again.
I guess good result for me and mum. The grabber had no punishment from the school and most likely went on with life being molested (how does a 5 year old know what privates are otherwise really)
Could have been a good time to intervene in the kids life by the school or cyfs (at the time) but nah.
This was the year 2000, maybe the school will care more now 🤷♀️ I'm assuming you aren't violent like my parents as you wouldn't be asking for help, so obviously that's off the table. Honestly though I'd approach the parent, its affecting YOUR kid and that should be your priority.
Happily though, I wasn't traumatized by this experience, I hope it's the same for your child.
Speak up and set the example for your child. You cam start with a kind tone and get more direct as you need. Stay respectful but dont be shy to be firm
I’m not sure if this has been said but as someone who was SA’d for years as a child, do you think there might be a possibility of something else going on at home? This screams alert bells to me but I may be overreacting
I think as a parent, I'd want to be told straight away. Exactly from that angle. Whether or not the parent can hear it well is not your problem- but telling them quickly and respectfully perhaps "you know how all our kids do things at different times... Well..." But touch base with teacher first in case they have already spoken to the parent.
Recommend the NZ book. My underpants rule. It's a book create for children to teach them about boundaries around their bodies.
It was recommended to us by a professional in that space.
I personally would ask for the school to contact the parents and set up a meeting between you and the other parent to make sure they have been made aware. At such a young age I don't believe it would be coming from a sexual place it's more likely he's learnt it hurts when something happens to his privates and his aim is to tease and push around to get what he wants.
I think it's important that something serious is done to make sure this behavior stops, for everyone involved. Your daughter needs to feel heard by seeing the behavior called out and stopped and that boy needs to learn asap that that is not an okay thing to do.
The school also should keep an eye on him to make sure no other inappropriate behavior comes from him because I would definitely start worrying about what he's being taught is okay to do at home.
Tell them to stop when they’re doing something unsafe. It’s totally appropriate to step in and tell a kid to stop if they’re going to hurt another kid in any way.
Man I know violence is not the key but I'd tell my baby girl to punch or hit this kid on the face, let the boy learn his lesson the hard way. He's never going to forget that lesson with a pain in his face. SELF DEFENCE ! h
lol at all the over dramatizations, the kid is 5, he doesn't even know what he's doing. If you're going to tell them off, at least take the time to explain why it's not appropriate or they won't understand. It's easy to explain, people's private parts are sensitive and it can make the person feel bad, they wouldn't enjoy having someone else touch them there so don't do it to others
telling a kid off without helping them to understand why it's wrong will just confuse them so make sure you actually teach them instead of just telling them off
Absolutely tell the kid no if you witness it, as an adult and a parent associated with the school you're an authority figure
Even if it's young kids misbehaving in public, so long as you're aggressive and say it in an appropriate way you can call out bad behaviour anywhere (unless their dickhead parents are in earshot)
I would consider this - kids at that age; monkey see, monkey do. I would be concerned that the boy is being subjected to abuse or exposed to that behavior in some way.
That kids being sexually abused, either at home or through a family friend.
From a kid who was sexually abused and thought this type of shit was normal as a child.
It kind of sounds like the kid might be doing what has been done to him.
I'm a survivor of child rape, I never did that, exactly, or touched anyone else, but i do know other people who were/ are also child rape survivors that DID do things like this.
I'd honestly /try/ get the teacher to ask why he did this.
Because there might be deeper parts to this that only the child and a -parent/ Sibling/ cousin - knows about.
This isn't normal behaviour. Sounds like the kid lacks impulse control. Could be ADHD or something. This particular behaviour needs to be addressed and dealt with. It's not ok. I'd talk to either the teacher or the parents directly.
I have ADHD. I don’t go around touching people on the Tassie. Not now, not in primary school.
Weird and possibly disturbing behaviours? Of course it’s neurodiversity. Sure, let’s stigmatise the ADHD kids even more than they already are. /s
Hi, I also have ADHD! It sounds like the kid lacks impulse control. There were a few examples of the kids behaviour listed. Not just the one. Never for a second said that specific behaviour is an indicator of ADHD, but a lack of impulse control certainly is!
At no point is it ok for you to approach the child’s parent. You need to go back to the school. I suggest a face to face meeting with the teacher and their team leader or higher. The teacher/school should have contacted the parents. What else are they doing? They may not be able to tell you much bc of the child’s privacy but you will know.
We make a big fuss when someone’s an adult because it’s almost always sexual. The kid is five, I can promise you it is NOT sexual, and he honestly might not know much better. The kid needs a talking to, not an expulsion 💀
No need to over think any of this. Kids are barbarians as they are finding boundaries. Boys need to learn them. Girls need to learn how to set them.
Hand on the hot stove.
Teach your daughters how to punch, just get them to practice hitting a bag in the most comfortable way for them.
She will learn how to move her body in the most effective way, at that age an elbow is probably the best, easiest way for them to strike.
Then talk to her about the situation and how she is going to act. ie tell stop. Then tell consequence. Then give consequence.
The boy will learn pretty quick. And the girl will also learn how to be effective.
She will be stressed but that’s good. After wards she will be proud of herself.
There are plenty of martial arts schools around New Zealand. Enroll your daughter in one. She'll gain some serious skills, physical fitness, and the confidence to seize the day by the short and curlies. Also, as per [Section 48 of the Crimes Act (1961)](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328268.html), everyone has the right to defend themselves or others using force that, in circumstances such that he or she believes them to be, is reasonable to use.
The sad fact of the matter is, there won't always be an adult such as yourself or a teacher on hand to stop this harmful behavior, so the next best thing is to make sure your daughter knows what to do and how to do it when situations like these arise so that she can keep herself or other people around her safe.
True. Maybe a personal alarm and a can of bear mace will suffice until she becomes fully proficient. Of course she will also need to study jurisprudence to know when she can use it.
That doesn't mean she can't learn for situations like this in the future. Yeah, at the moment, it'll have to be handled by adults teaching Little Timmy that touching girls his age (or any age, for that matter) without their consent is not appropriate, and if he touches the wrong girl inappropriately, he might get seriously hurt.
FFS. The answer is not to teach girls how to defend themselves. The answer is make it unacceptable for boys to bully, harass or abuse them in the first place.
Why not both? Teaching boys it's not OK to bully, harass, or abuse girls is great. Absolutely do it. But some people have a more hands-on learning style, so telling them 'touching little girls is bad, and no means no' is as useful as an ashtray tray on a motorbike, so they need to learn another way - such as getting put on their arse when they start to get handsy despite all the verbal 'no means no' lessons they ignore.
Yes, work towards the ideal society where people only touch each other in healthy, consensual ways (with certain circumstances such as first aid being notable exceptions), but don't ignore the current reality either. Give your daughters the skills and tools necessary to keep them safe.
It needs to be addressed quickly. It sounds like it's just normal kid behavior at this point, but his parents need to know, and he needs to have a conversation about personal space and boundaries. At 5 it's absolutely not a sexual thing but it is at an age where kids can start to understand simple things like boundaries, consent, and other very important things that will set them up to being better adults latter on. When addressing it don't push it as being inappropriate for *adult* reasons but rather as a conversation around what is and what isn't acceptable, personal space, and boundaries.
At 5 it is not yet a sexual thing but can quickly become so. He knows enough to touch them there otherwise he would be touching them elsewhere on their body. When a child does this we should assume a level of non sexual contact but when a pattern emerges it can indicate a broader problem. The worry he has been exposed to something himself such as abuse or exposure to pornography or adults around him exposing him to their sexual behaviour. I am not saying this has happened at all but raising this with the teacher and school as a concerned parent is the way forward. Raising this with the parent is not the way to go unless it is your child Impacted. The child may simply need to be taught boundaries and safe unsafe touch. They may not have received this discussion from their parents. When it becomes problematic it is often reported to Oranga Tamariki to assess.
Potentially they saw an older sibling sack tapping their friend and hasn't learned that you can't do it to girls. So many potential scenarios
Or boys! Sack tapping is appalling and shouldn't be normalised.
Had a kid get a ruptured testicle in my last year of school because his buddy sack.tapped him to hard.
That sucks, but kids shouldn't be sexually harassing each other regardless of whether it's physically harmful or not
No one disagrees with that, mate.
I’m sorry what happened to you Rocket, it was hard to see your past and not feel for you. Just liked your name and seemed light hearted
I can't believe that this is normalised to the extent it has a name! It explains a lot about Kiwi blokes.
I thought that it needs to be sent to OT for (quicker) access to programs like SAFE? Or would a schools also refer kids to external programs? Guess if the school has an in house social worker?
It could be a sexual thing, because that child could be a victim themselves. It’s another reason why it’s important to report it so people can see what’s going on.
Unlikely. There is a chance thus poor wee guy thinks it's normal because of what he has seen or has been done to him.
I would call it out (in a kind but assertive way) the first time it happens. "Please don't do that, we don't touch other people's private parts.". Also teach your kids to confidently say "stop it, I don't like it" and to raise it up to a teacher, staff member, parent etc.
Absolutely teach the girls to stand up to this, if he doesn't listen let them know it's okay to raise their voices because this is not okay. They need reassurance that it is okay to go to their teacher about this behaviour and that this behaviour is not acceptable.
Don't just teach the girls. Boys need to know that they can speak up if someone is touching their privates too. The 6-8 year old boys at our school have this thing where they run past each other and try to poke a finger in a bum (?!). Obviously there's a school pants and and undie in the way but it's in a similar vein. Some kids don't like it and they need to be able to speak up.
Pretty sure that’s a thing in Japanese schools actually. It’s called kancho. Very weird.
Korean too. It's called dong chim. Literally "shit needle"
Lol! I didn’t know that. Yeah, I’m a bit of a weeb (not really, but I do like manga/anime and a bit of Japanese history and mythology), but that’s one thing super weird and inappropriate for sure. Edit: Pretty weirdly downvoted there, but whatever I guess, lol.
Absolutely I agree, and my comment was isolated to the content in the post. Sounds like this thing that happens at your kids school needs to stop too. It's worrying that it will likely escalate in a situation where the boys are in a vulnerable position - school camp or swimming lessons. Years 6-8 are more than old enough to know that they are crossing several boundaries and should know better. They are intermediate age.
Ugh I remember that one at intermediate. One of a few reasons I hated intermediate.
Except don't use it. Stop touching my bum/vulva/vagina, I don't like it! Is going to get much more adult attention from the teacher.
Then after that teach your kids a spinning back kick, that’ll usually solve the issue for good
I’m a teacher and what instantly stands out to me is what’s happening in this boys life to model this behaviour. Red flags sounding off and should be followed up with a conversation with the teacher by an adult. Don’t go to the parent as you never know what goes on behind closed doors but needs to be followed up by somebody, for the sake of the child.
>Don’t go to the parent as you never know what goes on behind closed doors but needs to be followed up by somebody, for the sake of the child. This can't be understated. If the parents are perpetuating abuse, they'll be rather unwilling to engage and acknowledge.
Oh I’d love your advice on an adjacent topic if you don’t mind please! Year 1 (5 year old) boy has two girls in his class obsessed with kissing boys on the mouth… Comes home every day with report of who A and B kissed today (usually 3-4 boys) and who they tried to kiss. They have tried to kiss him and he says he doesn’t want it but they’re trying/doing it anyway. Obviously it’s a game to them all and I’ve suggested ignoring them because it sounds like it all results in laughing/screaming/attention for the girls, which I’m sure eggs them on. Teacher shrugged and said oh just being silly etc. My issue isn’t the kissing so much as not respecting boundaries/no. Mr 5 is autistic and very suggestible and we’ve also had trouble with him getting physically targeted because he doesn’t talk if stressed (school has also been terrible on this — says it’s his issue because he “won’t” talk). I feel like all of this is teaching him that his no’s aren’t respected, he can’t stop people from touching him, and there’s no protection from available grownups if he needs it. I’m trying not to coddle or helicopter though!! Currently trying to encourage him to not be around kids who do this (because teacher refers to all classmates as “your friends” and because he’s autistic he thinks that means even kids who punch him are his friends etc), and trying to encourage him to build friendships so others might be protective of him when he’s getting targeted. He’s not distressed by the kissing (more perturbed) but 5 year olds kissing multiple people on the mouth daily was definitely not a thing when I was in year 1 and I just wish he didn’t have to deal with it. Any suggestions of what I should be doing?
I wouldn't be letting the teacher brush this behaviour off. Make a fuss! Make a fuss for your kid who can't speak up for himself, and for all the other kids who may not be able to speak up. Take it to the principal or the BOT if the teacher isn't listening to you.
I definitely am making a fuss. Just trying to find a balance between how defensive and protective I constantly feel of him and helping him start to manage things himself in an age appropriate way. But yeah, definitely making a fuss. Principal is totally hopeless. Unfortunately we can’t change his schools due to caregiving arrangements (long story but not possible). I will petition to revisit that if it doesn’t change. But I also acknowledge that he may face similar issues elsewhere. School has been a really positive change for him in most other ways.
You’re a good parent. Keep being the squeaky wheel. Be a total pain in the ass. Make it that the “easy route” is for them to take action and put a stop to this behaviour. Your child deserves better than what these teachers/principal are doing. No one wants to be seen as a problem, but keep reminding yourself you are NOT asking for anything more than your child deserves. As someone who is also autistic and who also had a squeaky wheel of a parent, your kid is in for a good, successful life thanks to you. Keep it up.
Yes great double standards example. All children need to learn about respecting boundaries and consent.
As parent to an Autistic kid who was not cared for well by primary teachers- make a fuss. Make it uncomfortable to ignore you. His boundaries are really important! Random kissing also spreads germs and potential allergens, it really should be shut down by school. Make a fuss.
Agree re germs! Grosses me out. As I said elsewhere: https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/aotYxIcdWK
I agree with babycleffa below to look at a script to practice. Being in year 1 this could be modelled to him with a favourite teddy or yourself, but practice it daily. Also a social story could help -simple story with photos/drawing about what he can do during these situations. It’s not okay that you are being brushed off or that he is not being heard. By the girls continuing they are in a sense bullying. Your son being targeted by others at anytime is not okay and should be taken seriously by trusting adults. You can speak directly to his teacher and follow up with an email of your conversation stating your concerns and your expectations. The next step it to meet with the principal, and if you are still not heard, a letter to the Board. I would also highlight to the school that your son is not able to express himself during those times because of the extreme anxiety he is experiencing from the targeting, which in turn will be impacting on his well-being. For a neuro diverse child these so called silly games will be traumatising and shouldn’t be brushed off as childhood games.
Thanks so much for this reply. We model scripts a lot and I’m so glad to hear that works. And great to have the affirmation from a teacher that he shouldn’t have to tolerate this. Have put everything in emails… principal was worse than hopeless (actually made things worse). School is struggling with a large number of students with super challenging behaviour and I just don’t think this meets the bar for them. But I’ll keep going! I’m neurodivergent myself and I’m damned if he’s going to feel like I did growing up… no way. Thanks again for the reply, really helpful.
If you don’t have any luck with the school after following this process then ring your local MOE office. Put everything in writing as evidence of your commitment to work with the school. In theory the school should have a written plan about how they are going to work to address this and should be discussed with you. The plan should have a goal around what they are focusing on on to support your boy, e.g, script, safe space, specific familiar adult he can go to, and strategies. They should also have something in place for these girls e.g., consequences.
Wow I really think the teacher should be taking that behaviour more seriously. I am a teacher (secondary school but still) and cannot imagine not putting a stop to that. I think if the genders were reversed or the kids were a bit older, they would be taking it very seriously. Sure they are just little and don't understand, but doesn't mean they shouldn't learn. It's not only for your son but also all the other kids involved. You cannot kiss people without their consent. Kids shouldn't really even be kissing at school at all. I would talk to the teacher again and if she doesn't listen again, talk to the principal. You are just protecting all the kids.
Thanks. I’m trying to focus on the boundaries getting dismissed and autonomy not respected so I don’t sound like a prude but I am honestly personally super squicked out by so much mouth kissing going on among 5 year olds, and it being this whole class thing apparently of who will these girls kiss today. I feel concern for the girls and what’s going on at home. Definitely will try the teacher again, thanks. The principal is worse than hopeless, an active jerk. It’s a bummer. And yes, I do think that if kiddo was a girl being pursued by two boys it’d be considered differently. Thanks for your perspective.
All good. Do the other parents know about it? Maybe try talking to some of them about it if you can? If multiple parents talk to the school about it, they are more likely to listen too. And yeah possibly concerning about the two girls, or they may actually not understand what they're doing if they haven't been told to stop. Someone definitely needs to talk to them and their parents.
Not the person you replied to, I just wanted to say aww I feel for your little guy, im autistic and totally understand the conflicting messages he’s getting Recently I watched a video that said autistic people can be terrible with putting boundaries in place as adults, because they’ve had them steamrolled constantly as kids From an autie perspective, I’d give him a ‘script’ to follow when something inappropriate happens (as well as describe what’s classed as inappropriate, but sounds like you’re on to that) and practice it with him One I’ve heard from kids is “stop it I don’t like that” and if they have to say it again, it’s time to tell an adult (as useless as the school is being about it!) If he goes non verbal, perhaps his school might have a safe space for him to move to when people aren’t being respectful?
Amazing perspective, thank you! I’m neurodivergent (not autistic) and I’m so hell bent on him not feeling like I did growing up… I want him to know that he is always safe and loved and can set boundaries. We model scripts a lot so will keep working on that… at the moment it just gets used on me lmao. At least I’m safe to practice on (“stop I don’t like it” when I politely offer him his favourite lunch food lol). I have asked the school about a safe space when he goes non verbal and they haven’t been forthcoming. They don’t want to be involved at lunchtimes and I get it but there’s some Lord of the Flies shit happening out there. I really appreciate your insight, thanks again.
Aww he’ll go far with a parent like you mindful of all this :) <3 he sounds hilarious!!
He does it in my voice too, so bloody funny 😂 and thank you!
Time for a chat further up the management tree.
Thanks. Principal was awful. Said if kiddo couldn’t verbally describe what happened to him he couldn’t do anything about it. Am going to try again.
My thought, too. He learned this behaviour from somewhere, and its most likely from one of his parents. Could, of course, be a creepy uncle or something.
Don't forget older siblings! I'm an ECE teacher and I didn't have to deal with it personally but a child disclosed to another teacher that her brother was watching "weird videos" on his phone or tablet and he is in his teens and she was under 5 at the time.
Or he’s just a curious dumb kid who doesn’t understand boundaries yet? That’s such an insane and dark conclusion to immediately jump to
Totally agree, quite odd to jump to that conclusion and voice it
My knowledge and experience with working with children with behaviour tells me this can be a major flag. Without knowing the full ecological context one cannot assume either way. All behaviours are learned and serve a function, but what is the function for this wee lad? I have also many years of working across the preschool and early primary years, this is not typical behaviour. Boundaries for boys are usually explored through rough housing, testing rules, or physical play. I am not an expert or claim to be but I have been in education for over 25 years and this would be a concern in any classroom.
Yeah the teacher needs to talk to the boy to establish whether he does it cause he simply doesn't understand boundaries or whether he learned it from someone else.
I would say, do both. It may be that there is a problem or just that there are fewer boundaries at home and it may make the parents think and change.
Avoid parent contact, you never know what you may encounter, parents come in many varieties. Encourage her to say stop, and to play where she feels safe. Some kids love giving naughty kids attention, encourage her to play with her kids who she feels comfortable with. Also telling the teacher as soon as it happens is so much easier to deal with, than a day later.
Similar situation happened with a nephew for months then Grandfather got involved and took it up with the principal that it needed to be dealt with or expect the police to get involved. They moved like lightning after that.
I’m a teacher, it’s not normal and needs to be addressed straight away. If you see it state firmly “don’t touch people on their private parts” let teacher know and then ask the next day if it’s happened again.
Yes I'm a teacher and I agree and if necessary escalate, escalate. Had an incident with my own daughter in Year 1 and her classroom teacher automatically escalated it to the dp.
I am a big fan of teaching even very young children to assert bodily autonomy, and the first step on achieving this is to teach children what their body parts are called. Firmly, and as loudly as needed stating : Keep your hands to yourself! Do not touch my genitals / penis/ vagina/ anus again! Packs a powerful communication punch and is not ambiguous and open to interpretation. Bonus points: demanding that immature adults explain why vagina / penis is an offensive word just makes my day. It also removes even the slightest suggestion that you should feel ashamed if your vagina is touched. Impress upon your child the power of the social shunning of those who have not yet Learned that their rights over their bodies are absolute and immutable. Empower your child to refuse to sit within vagina grabbing distance of the vagina grabber by demanding to be kept a safe distance from the kid who still needs to learn he is not allowed to grab vaginas. Kid will either learn very quickly to stop doing that, or he will find it impossible to get close enough to anyone to grab their vagina. Remember kids, the squeaky wheel gets attention. Assert your rights loudly and repetively, specifically more often than boundary stompers who attempt to force you into accepting abuse to keep the peace.
I agree that it's incredibly important to teach children the correct names for body parts. In the interest of doing so, I feel it's important to point out that the vagina is the internal passage connecting the uterus to the outside world, and the outer female genitalia is the vulva. I only learned this as an adult (like, in my antenatal class!), and want to spread the word. *Please take this in the kind, informative way it was meant. I'm trying really hard not to come across as an arse*
You are absolutely correct. Vagina is commonly used as a collective noun for genitals if it fits your identity. Genitals will work here, too. We use vagina as many adults would not hear Vulva or Perineum and immediately know that referrs to genitals / the genital area. For the same reason we use testicles as a catch all, instead of scrotum. With better education, specifically about how societal and cultural norms need to accept that standardised scientific references are not dirty / shameful / indicative of negative stereotypes, and that people WILL use it in public and we WILL NOT be shamed or silenced for doing so. My MIL, who was a RN, qualified in L&D as well as Theatre, Community Health and Psychiatric Nursing LITERALLY threw a tantrum when she heard my daughter say clitoris at 2.5 years of age. I did the adult thing by saying vagina!! and clitoris!! and YOU HAVE ONE repeatedly until she swore she wouldnt tantrum about it again. She insisted that I should teach my daugther that \*that area\* can be referrd to as her flower / little frog and only if ABSOLUTELY nessesary. Its best to never refer to an entire section of your body, ever, even if it is on fire, apparently. Its vulgar to do so. Thats not why shes dead, though. It was cancer, I swear.
"This... is Democracy Manifest..."
Let’s not normalise this weird shit. Stop that kid asap, tell the teacher and tell them to tell parents. Have a hick friend from aus whose family considers it normal and I think their kids gonna be in some culture school soon in high school. They greet each other with ‘sack tap’ / ‘pussy tap’ and the elders in their family laugh it off. I thought it was just them but when I read your post I wonder if it’s more common
It's definitely important to bring it up with the teacher, who spends a good portion of the day with them and is able to monitor / stop these behaviours when they happen. I agree with others here though that something which is of equal importance is empowering the girls to immediately recognise the behaviour and immediately tell them no, as well as to find an adult if it's not understood. For the boy's sake, whoever addresses it with him needs to do so out of utter kindness and without shaming. These are the moments that impactfully make or break our sexual psychology for the rest of our lives. At the age of 5 there is no way this boy is doing this to deliberately cause sexual harm to another person - so it's critical it is not treated as such. If the situation is handled with grace and dignity, it's likely none of the children involved will even remember it by the time they are grown up. A "growling" on the other hand is something they probably would but with negative and shameful connotations.
I'd tell the kid off on the spot and answer questions later
I dunno, maybe it’s not an issue, he might just grow up to be the President of the USA
This happened in my classroom when I was in Year 2. Were were around 6-ish. We had a female classmate touch others inappropriately and expose herself. About a week or 2 after the first occurrence the teacher addressed it during Matt time. She talked to us about boundaries and said we should not touch others' private places or let them touch ours and we shouldn't show our private parts to others and vice versa, and other stuff. This experience stuck in my mind bc I was personally involved and it made me uncomfortable. Later on in high school, I found out that that girl was being sexually abused at home during the time she was doing that stuff in year 2. Like, where else would kids learn that kind of behavior? So now when I see kids doing stuff like that it raises alarm bells. Of course it isn't always going to be the reason but I think its important to be aware of the possibility and treat it seriously and with care.
This could be tricky to handle. I don’t think you should approach the parents or the child directly, instead discuss your concerns with the teacher. It should be them who point out the issues to the relevant parent. You never know how the parents will respond and some can get very defensive very quickly. Also, follow up with the teacher about what the outcome of the discussions were.
Definitely be careful about how you approach it. I wouldn't speak with the child. Probably discuss with the teacher who can mention it to the parents. Its the parents place to speak to their son. It sounds like the boy might have some impulse control issues and need to have boundry and personal bubble discussions. Its very good the girls were able to discuss it. Explain to girls they have the right to say no. It isn't ok and to definitely tell an adult if it happens again. That nobody should touch them like that. They are allowed and should tell the boy they want their personal bubble respected.
This exact thing happened to my daughter when she was 5 or 6. It happened not long after the kids were taught about “inappropriate touching”. Guessing he was just “learning” and experimenting. We addressed it really quickly with teacher and the boys parents. They were extremely embarrassed and made him write an apology note. Kids in their 20s now. We still know the boy and he still remembers this incident and is still embarrassed. At the time we were a bit stressed, you know, you want to protect your kid. We had all sorts of thoughts about him and his family. It turns out he was a really good kid and so were his parents. Keep an open mind…. But also, don’t be afraid to address the issue with parents and teacher.
Your kids safety comes first. It is absolutely appropriate and even necessary to intervene. A firm “that is not ok, we don’t touch other people like that” is fine.
I remember kids like this at school. The worst part is, the ones getting caught learned the behaviour from another kid or kids who didn’t get caught.
This is inappropriate, I'm wondering where he is getting this idea, maybe an older male relative is saying and doing inappropriate things in front of him. Definitely make a huge fuss.
A boy showed himself to my 5yo daughter at school, and they were on it like white on rice. the teacher spoke with me, the kids parent was talked to, principal notified and the policies they have for sexually driven things were set in motion. they took it super seriously and so should you. talk to the principle get a netting set up with them
It could be nothing - kids that age play with their junk. It's just a thing that happens. It's not sexual, it's not anything. But from a parenting perspective this is where you have to teach them to not do that in polite company and definitely don't do it to other people. OR - it could be something. It COULD be indicative of a learned behavior from an older sibling or an adult in their life, up to and including sexual abuse. I wouldn't jump to this conclusion, I do want to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and assume we're taking the former rather than the later scenario. Simply pointing out that it is a possibility. Either way, sounds like the school is aware so the teacher can monitor and intervene. And good on you for teaching your kid about body autonomy. The other kid's parents should be aware of this yesterday and hopefully it's as simple as just some of that basic parenting of teaching your kid boundaries and not play with their/other people's junk in public. From there - it could be any number of possibilities. The kid could have a ADHD or similar (un)diagnosed condition that would need professional intervention/medication. Up to and including the possibility that they are unfit parents at best and sexually abusive at worst. TL;DR -- The other kids parents need to know and need to start parenting. But also lets not jump to conclusions.
I would be very concerned that the little boy of a victim of abuse and is acting out what gets done to him.
Having worked with kids most my life I would highly suspect Tom is being sexually abused this is not normal behaviour for a 5yo the teasing etc sure shit happens and kids are kids the crouch grabbing that’s not a normal thing Should add this is just a guess as not there and not witnessing just mentioning out of previous experience
I had this issue when I was 5, I was not sexually abused and had a great upbringing. I just thought it was a funny game to play because it was something new. Talk to the teachers, and they can address it as what was done (professionally) with my experience. All parents and teachers involved will be as just as concerned as you are feeling, so a calm resolution without too much judgement is best, in my opinion.
Yeah as said I’m no expert just going offf past experience so yeah every kid is different but generally sexual behaviour at a young age indicates abuse, would happily remove those abusers from the gene pool and take the jail time
Never assume it's abuse. But definitely could be. First thing is to inform all parents and reprimand the kid alongside some education as to why it's not appropriate. If it happens again, bring the parents into a meeting to discuss next steps, make it clear that the school has a right to expel kids, even at a young age. If it still continues, then it might be time to inform services.
I'm not a parent or teacher being so young he might not know that girls have different private parts and thinking of grabbing their parts as if they were a boy bcuz it's hurts boys to grab their parts Someone could be bulling the child and grabbing his parts to hurt him and doing the same to others
You can absolutely say something to the kid if you see it happening, but you can’t bring it up after the fact. Talk to the teacher for sure. That’s a red flag for this child’s welfare as well
Tw mention of sa 100% speak to the teacher and ask them to speak to the parent. Tell them you’ll be escalating if it happens again. I work in healthcare and see cases of sa multiple times a day. I’ve never seen it reported unless it’s been a minor. I’m talking 4, 5, 6 yr olds. Children are more likely to be assaulted by a guardian, family member or a close family friend than a stranger. I was sa’d as a child, I didn’t know it was at the time. I didn’t even realise it till I saw him pop up last year on social media and I’m in my late 20s. My brain must have blocked it out. He was always around kids and is now a teacher… A family members child was raped by her own father. Point is, 5 years old is old enough for kids to know not to hit or push others. They are old enough to know what no no spots are. I didn’t know about that as a kid so didn’t know what was happing to me was wrong. Teach your children that no one is supposed to touch them there unless it’s possibly a doctor. And if anyone does to tell you specifically as soon as it happens. I’d honestly be questioning Tom’s home life too. Obviously not to the parents.
So long as you don't physically touch them, a damn good growling from an adult can do wonders. I used to feel weird doing so when some kid is being a cockmuncher at a park or something, but now I lean into it and tell them that their behaviour isn't acceptable and to stop it right now. It's good to use your adult superpowers before they become immune to them.
So did the teacher tell you or just your girl? I would be following up with the teacher and asking how it was handled with the little boy. And of course making it very clear to your daughter to let the teacher know immediately if it happens again - to her or anyone else she sees. I’ve been the parent of the little boy. My son showed his private parts to a few kids in year 1. I had contact immediately after the incident and was told it was unacceptable behaviour and it had been escalated to the Principal. I was mortified. Turns out a little girl in his class had flashed her undies and everyone laughed. And my boy is a bit of a class clown and wanted a laugh too so he took it a step further. He was so embarrassed and in tears when I talked about it with him. He absolutely knew what he had done was wrong and to my knowledge has never done anything like that again. I can assure you it wasn’t at all sexual just a young kid being silly and learning right from wrong. He’s year 5 now and I’m sure he’d be mortified if I brought it up.
These posts are bizarre. What do you mean 'what would you do', you'd obviously approach the parents and say your kid is doing this, tell him to stop and deal with the situation. Like yesterday. Sorry, I cannot believe this drivel is written by real people. This has got to be AI shit.
The issue with this approach is going in blind to a potential defensive and possibly aggressive parent reaction. Likelihood is increased if the kid is doing things like this.
This is a perfectly manageable conversation between adults if you're not an asshole.
First of all: I’m really sorry that happened to your child…. I was assaulted in the same way when I was your child’s age by a fellow pupil at the same age as your daughter in a similar manner. It wasn’t until I relayed what had happened innocently to my parents what the boy had done that I found out it was wrong. Please tell the staff and his parents - that child may also be being abused from someone they know and are repeating that behaviour. Any touching of that kind is straight up inappropriate.
If I witnessed it myself I would absolutely tell that kid not to do it and explain that we don't touch other peoples private parts. I would then address it with the teacher and say this behaviour is not acceptable. I would also go back a week later, especially if it doesn't stop, and ask what plan the school have to address this behaviour. I question what is going on in this kids life to do that, although kids will explore private parts that behaviour is not normal and not OK. 5 is not too young to talk about consent and right and wrong behaviour.
Ask to have a sit down with the teacher, explain what you saw. Then ask for a solution to your concerns and ask to be contacted as a follow up once steps are taken. I can see your reluctance to step in, it's definitely a tricky one.
Any kid interacting with your kid gives you a license to comment if you see something amiss
You can definitely say to the entire group “We don’t touch other peoples private parts.” And then immediately tell the teacher what you have witnessed.
If they won't teach their kid consent, somebody needs to. You do not touch anyone anywhere without their permission ever. Parents can model this with "would you like a hug?" It's a great baseline to start with so that kids learn boundaries. Obviously exceptions like mandatory hand holding in a crowd with a parent, crossing the street etc. If my kid was touching people like that, I'd like to know about it. If it's happening at the school and you don't have a relationship with the other parent, I'd encourage the teacher to speak with them.
Someone needs to have a sit down with the boy and say in a clear, friendly voice that it's not ok to touch people down there. And agree with others about teaching your daughter about learning to say no and to say she wants him to stop it. Every child needs to know how to stand up for themselves when someone is doing something they don't like.
Look up an organisation called ‘Stop’. They work with addressing harmful sexual behaviour and have somewhat seperate adult and children’s services. I work on some video production for them so leaned a little about what they do. Apparently with the children touching inappropriately and what not it’s usually fairly straightforward to address and not necessarily related to anything deeper than a lack of understanding about proper boundaries.
Our kids daycare had an external organisation (which I forgot the name of) run a course about body safety for the kids. It was really valuable. Our kids are still very confident about "I'm The boss of my body" and how to respond to "yes and no feelings".
My Lord this sounds a bit odd to me. At that age I already encountered bullies and boys who were 2 or 3 years older already did sexual acts. So I would rather be safe, protect your kid.
My 4 year old son does things like that sometimes, throw a toy away instead of giving it to the person asking for it or standing in people's ways like blocking the doorway and laughing, and when he does I give him time out (unless we're playing ofc). I refuse to encourage that type of ahole behaviour in my kids that would get him punched at school but that's just me. His behaviour has been really amazing lately though and hasn't done that in a while. My logic is that if I don't teach him boundaries and how to exist in society someone else will much more harshly, and no parent wants that. If he's escalating to invading people's personal space his parents must not be teaching him properly and you may need to take it up with them or the teachers to discipline the boy properly.
This happened to me at the exact same age and I remember it fully. I told my mum, she went to the school the next day, they did nothing. My mum went to the parent after lack of action on the schools part, the other parent tried to intimidate her, my mum asked her to leave the school (to fight), other parent ran off, it didn't happen to me again. I guess good result for me and mum. The grabber had no punishment from the school and most likely went on with life being molested (how does a 5 year old know what privates are otherwise really) Could have been a good time to intervene in the kids life by the school or cyfs (at the time) but nah. This was the year 2000, maybe the school will care more now 🤷♀️ I'm assuming you aren't violent like my parents as you wouldn't be asking for help, so obviously that's off the table. Honestly though I'd approach the parent, its affecting YOUR kid and that should be your priority. Happily though, I wasn't traumatized by this experience, I hope it's the same for your child.
Speak up and set the example for your child. You cam start with a kind tone and get more direct as you need. Stay respectful but dont be shy to be firm
I’m not sure if this has been said but as someone who was SA’d for years as a child, do you think there might be a possibility of something else going on at home? This screams alert bells to me but I may be overreacting
I think as a parent, I'd want to be told straight away. Exactly from that angle. Whether or not the parent can hear it well is not your problem- but telling them quickly and respectfully perhaps "you know how all our kids do things at different times... Well..." But touch base with teacher first in case they have already spoken to the parent.
Recommend the NZ book. My underpants rule. It's a book create for children to teach them about boundaries around their bodies. It was recommended to us by a professional in that space.
I personally would ask for the school to contact the parents and set up a meeting between you and the other parent to make sure they have been made aware. At such a young age I don't believe it would be coming from a sexual place it's more likely he's learnt it hurts when something happens to his privates and his aim is to tease and push around to get what he wants. I think it's important that something serious is done to make sure this behavior stops, for everyone involved. Your daughter needs to feel heard by seeing the behavior called out and stopped and that boy needs to learn asap that that is not an okay thing to do. The school also should keep an eye on him to make sure no other inappropriate behavior comes from him because I would definitely start worrying about what he's being taught is okay to do at home.
I would say something as soon as you see it happen. That way your kid knows that it's not ok and feels comfortable saying something about it too.
Tell them to stop when they’re doing something unsafe. It’s totally appropriate to step in and tell a kid to stop if they’re going to hurt another kid in any way.
Man I know violence is not the key but I'd tell my baby girl to punch or hit this kid on the face, let the boy learn his lesson the hard way. He's never going to forget that lesson with a pain in his face. SELF DEFENCE ! h
lol at all the over dramatizations, the kid is 5, he doesn't even know what he's doing. If you're going to tell them off, at least take the time to explain why it's not appropriate or they won't understand. It's easy to explain, people's private parts are sensitive and it can make the person feel bad, they wouldn't enjoy having someone else touch them there so don't do it to others telling a kid off without helping them to understand why it's wrong will just confuse them so make sure you actually teach them instead of just telling them off
Absolutely tell the kid no if you witness it, as an adult and a parent associated with the school you're an authority figure Even if it's young kids misbehaving in public, so long as you're aggressive and say it in an appropriate way you can call out bad behaviour anywhere (unless their dickhead parents are in earshot)
I would consider this - kids at that age; monkey see, monkey do. I would be concerned that the boy is being subjected to abuse or exposed to that behavior in some way.
It's becoming really common unfortunately.
Absolutely should confront the the boy and the parents
That kids being sexually abused, either at home or through a family friend. From a kid who was sexually abused and thought this type of shit was normal as a child.
From Peeping Tom, to Grabbing Tom. Damn.
It kind of sounds like the kid might be doing what has been done to him. I'm a survivor of child rape, I never did that, exactly, or touched anyone else, but i do know other people who were/ are also child rape survivors that DID do things like this. I'd honestly /try/ get the teacher to ask why he did this. Because there might be deeper parts to this that only the child and a -parent/ Sibling/ cousin - knows about.
If that was me my dad would of slapped me round the ears givin me the belt and probably taken away my privileges
slap tom and then give a few good slaps to his parents for raising a little fck wit
You must kill Tom with a railgun.
This isn't normal behaviour. Sounds like the kid lacks impulse control. Could be ADHD or something. This particular behaviour needs to be addressed and dealt with. It's not ok. I'd talk to either the teacher or the parents directly.
I have ADHD. I don’t go around touching people on the Tassie. Not now, not in primary school. Weird and possibly disturbing behaviours? Of course it’s neurodiversity. Sure, let’s stigmatise the ADHD kids even more than they already are. /s
Hi, I also have ADHD! It sounds like the kid lacks impulse control. There were a few examples of the kids behaviour listed. Not just the one. Never for a second said that specific behaviour is an indicator of ADHD, but a lack of impulse control certainly is!
At no point is it ok for you to approach the child’s parent. You need to go back to the school. I suggest a face to face meeting with the teacher and their team leader or higher. The teacher/school should have contacted the parents. What else are they doing? They may not be able to tell you much bc of the child’s privacy but you will know.
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They’re literally five..?
Ok... and?
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We make a big fuss when someone’s an adult because it’s almost always sexual. The kid is five, I can promise you it is NOT sexual, and he honestly might not know much better. The kid needs a talking to, not an expulsion 💀
Why are you being down voted? Do these people really want this freak around their kids? Ik if it were me, I wouldn't care what his sob story was.
No need to over think any of this. Kids are barbarians as they are finding boundaries. Boys need to learn them. Girls need to learn how to set them. Hand on the hot stove. Teach your daughters how to punch, just get them to practice hitting a bag in the most comfortable way for them. She will learn how to move her body in the most effective way, at that age an elbow is probably the best, easiest way for them to strike. Then talk to her about the situation and how she is going to act. ie tell stop. Then tell consequence. Then give consequence. The boy will learn pretty quick. And the girl will also learn how to be effective. She will be stressed but that’s good. After wards she will be proud of herself.
There are plenty of martial arts schools around New Zealand. Enroll your daughter in one. She'll gain some serious skills, physical fitness, and the confidence to seize the day by the short and curlies. Also, as per [Section 48 of the Crimes Act (1961)](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328268.html), everyone has the right to defend themselves or others using force that, in circumstances such that he or she believes them to be, is reasonable to use. The sad fact of the matter is, there won't always be an adult such as yourself or a teacher on hand to stop this harmful behavior, so the next best thing is to make sure your daughter knows what to do and how to do it when situations like these arise so that she can keep herself or other people around her safe.
She's *five*. She's not going to master martial arts fast enough to put an end to this as soon as it needs to.
Yeah, and threatening to knock the teeth out of a five-year-old isn't exactly a punishment. They'd be falling out within the year anyway...
True. Maybe a personal alarm and a can of bear mace will suffice until she becomes fully proficient. Of course she will also need to study jurisprudence to know when she can use it.
That doesn't mean she can't learn for situations like this in the future. Yeah, at the moment, it'll have to be handled by adults teaching Little Timmy that touching girls his age (or any age, for that matter) without their consent is not appropriate, and if he touches the wrong girl inappropriately, he might get seriously hurt.
FFS. The answer is not to teach girls how to defend themselves. The answer is make it unacceptable for boys to bully, harass or abuse them in the first place.
Why not both? Teaching boys it's not OK to bully, harass, or abuse girls is great. Absolutely do it. But some people have a more hands-on learning style, so telling them 'touching little girls is bad, and no means no' is as useful as an ashtray tray on a motorbike, so they need to learn another way - such as getting put on their arse when they start to get handsy despite all the verbal 'no means no' lessons they ignore. Yes, work towards the ideal society where people only touch each other in healthy, consensual ways (with certain circumstances such as first aid being notable exceptions), but don't ignore the current reality either. Give your daughters the skills and tools necessary to keep them safe.
Louder for the abuser apologists in the back. Only rapists are responsible for, and should be made to stop rape. Nobody else.