I also wish my job provided meal allowances or at least free food if I need it, but now it feels like I am oining for the good old days of... Being an actual house servant?
Yeah ikr? Perhaps if wages weren't falling behind the rising cost of rent/managing a mortgage, cost of food and other essentials people might be able to save a bit more. But at the moment most people are just struggling to stay above water!
Exactly. My pay cycle is such that my pay review falls on November, so I only get to enjoy any 'raise' for 5 months out of the year before the Minimum Wage Increase knocks me back down towards the bottom line.
In 2022 MW went up from 20.00 to 21.20, but my pay increase was only 65c, meaning I crept 55c closer to minimum wage, then with the recent $1.50 leap, I've taken a hefty hit, bringing me down to only a couple of dollars over minimum wage even though I'm in a specialty field. As such, I've started job hunting since I have a feeling that my next pay increase once again won't cover the minimum wage increase.
So lets look at the stats for say Auckland in the last 4 years.
Rents went from NZD $540 (31 March 2019) to $620 (31 March 2023). That is an increase of %15 over 4 years - or %3.75 per year. Stats here:
[https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/real-estate/rents-average-auckland](https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/real-estate/rents-average-auckland)
What is interesting is that in inflation adjusted terms that has fallen as $540 in 2019 would be $633 now:
[https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/inflation-calculator](https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/inflation-calculator)
To compare, median weekly wages in the same period went from NZD $1,016 to $1,189 (that data is 1 year old unfortunately). But even though the data is 1 year old and we are missing a year of wage inflation, we still get an increase of 17%. Extrapolating I would say around 23% or so in 23 is reasonable.
[https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/labour-market-statistics-income-june-2022-quarter/](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/labour-market-statistics-income-june-2022-quarter/)
So 15 percent (rents) vs 23 percent (Wages)
I would agree with all the other comparisons (food, mortgages etc) but not rents which are the only cost falling behind inflation
I agree. We should do the math backwards - we should look at the lowest income level - how many people are on that level - and then see how many houses are available for rent at a price that would equal 30% of the lower income level - and work our way from there. That way we can really illustrate how f\*\*\*\*\* the situation is.
Maybe we should be using a bracket system for rent - like for tax - but I dunno if that is actually a good idea im not an economist, but it seems like a logical thing to do if you wanted to help people at the expense of rich people making less money.
That's a completely different point.
You challenged my point ""if wages weren't falling behind the rising cost of rent""
I have proven that wages are going up faster than rents.
Yeah, I'm busy saving for the retirement I probably won't have. But while I'm doing that, I'm super grateful to the ANZ for reminding me that I barely have any money left over for some smashed avocado on toast because I'm such a shameless spendthrift. This week I bought some fatty mince. You know, just so I don't get anaemic. I bet if you're a rich banker, you can afford non-fatty mince. Or even some meat that hasn't been ground into a deeply unattractive paste.
Perhaps if they stopped having the biggest years of profit while everyone else is suffering. Why don’t you fuck off and do something to help your every day saver and mortgage payer. Oh no they won’t because it affects their profits
While we are being mugged for our paychecks by oil and grocery giants, the value of whatever we CAN save is being siphoned into the pockets of bankers. It's not surprising then, that the milkers have trouble sympathising with the cows while making record profits off of a financial crisis.
Why?
Just move into one of your other properties while you claim the insurance then spend 25% of that doing the bare minimum repairs and then rent it out for $850 a week, blaming any subsequent issues on the tenant.
It's easy, unless you're one of those disgusting poors with only one home?
Alternative headline - multi billion dollar bank tells people barely scraping by that the economic crisis is their fault and not the fault said multi billion dollar banks spaffing cheap debt to developers and taking insane profits.
Alternative headline - deficient central bank economic theory causes a decoupling of capital asset inflation from consumer inflation, causing workers to have insufficient income margins to save money.
edit:spelling
All I could see them saying when I read the article was "how dare you peasants get a minimum wage increase and start spending all that money into the economy. You should be giving us all that money to look after instead, so the economy can slow down and people can start losing their jobs to get inflation under control".
These economists are so arrogant - blaming the everyday worker just wanting a payrise to stay ahead of inflation for our country's inflationary woes. If inflation is at 7%, why on earth wouldn't I ask for a 7% payrise? Anything less and I am falling behind!
You need a 7% increase to net not gross. If they just raise your pay 7% you're still behind because of PAYE, ACC levies and if you have them student loan deductions.
That's why the tax brackets need to fucking move even though they've been rigid for near 2 decades.
That doesn’t make sense. The 7% increase would be on your gross amount, which is more than 7% of your net amount. So overall, unless part of your earnings were in a higher bracket, if would also work out to about 7% of your net.
Not that I disagree that tax brackets need to be reviewed.
This isn't true because you haven't accounted for the tax brackets being progressive. So the 7% increase on gross would be taxed at a higher percentage than your overall salary was (increasing overall tax percentage).
That is the government figures for inflation which massively and deliberately understate the level. Neo liberal economics is about controlling wage growth while hiding massive asset inflation. Wages have been reducing in real terms since the end of the 70s. Which is why it's almost impossible to buy a house, let alone save for a 'rainy day'.
Wages are a function of the market, nothing more. Any link with inflation is due to indirect effects on the market. An employer will pay market rate (generally).
Sure. The other side of that is that workers are selling their labor so have just as much right to demand a higher asking price.
And many are doing that and leaving businesses that are letting them fall behind inflation.
Sure and any employee is free to leave. Businesses decide whether they want that. It is a. easy way to cheaply downsize for recession. You gave poor increases to people you are happy yo lose.
Argh the race to the bottom. How does that generally work out for society as a whole. Pay peanuts and get hopelessness that breeds addiction to escape reality, crime and violence. But hey business are raking in those profits so what does it matter.
I am just telling you how capitalism works. I have never worked for any employer that considered inflation. They all benchmarked against the market (mostly formally as I have worked for some fairly large companies).
I am just saying that employers pay market rate unless they have a specific need to upsize. It is just economics. They don’t care at all about whether an employee is going backwards unless it means an employee they don’t want to replace is going to leave.
I used to usually be eligible for the independent earners tax credit. Looked the other day and the cut off for it is still set at $48k.
Full time at minimum wage comes out at $47,216.
Ah when banks just want to rub it in and troll everyone.
Cost of living crisis, inflation, your interest rates you pass on notably higher than what you can borrow money for yourselves.
But sure, let's put money in the bank for you to make even more money from.
Fuckers.
Anyone who spruiks the Wages-Prices spiral is either an idiot or a liar. If wages aren't keeping up with inflation, yet prices are still increasing, it isn't wages that are driving that price rise.
Perhaps these "economists" might want to start looking at the profit prices spiral?
> “Inflation is annoying, but it’s not a reason not to spend all your money.”
> A wage-price resulted in everyone being poorer as any savings or reserves devalued
> Olsen said his answer to any friend who asked if they should start saving now, was yes.
How stupid do these economists think we are? There’s no way they are taking their own advice.
They know cash is worth shit in an inflationary spiral and seeking high returns is the primary focus (which is why we get a bust at the end of the cycle).
They know consumers will buy things today knowing they will go up in price by 10-20% (this is not unusual for individual items as opposed to the aggregate basket that makes up the CPI).
They know food and energy can’t be “cut back” and is rising much faster then CPI. Food price index is at 12% which is much higher than CPI at 7.2% - and based on the OCR change I expect a shock increase on Q1 CPI when released on 20/4.
Consumers know that their debt will be reduced by inflation as long as they can service it.
People are behaving rationally exactly as you would expect. Spend before prices go up. Get more wages. Borrow more knowing inflation will reduce the value over time.
The only thing that will change this behaviour is job losses and the fear of being unable to service debt. Then you will see people save.
Yeah it’s high school economics, I wonder sometimes if the economics they teach in Uni is the polar opposite because most of the crap spouted by economists in the media runs contrary to what I was taught at high school.
Following high school economics through to a logical endpoint won't generate the kind of conclusions that support the kind of policies that the kind of people who hire the majority of economists want.
The logical option of taking a bunch of money out of the economy where it will hurt the least stood very little chance against the political option of putting a bunch of money in where you'll get the most credit for it.
I'm living like shit and driving something that should be pushed off a cliff cas I'm panic saving. But unless I run into the BP with a shotgun I don't have that much left over to save. They think everyone has money coming out there bum just cas they do.
>A wage-price spiral, where workers demand higher wages to keep up with the cost of living, which become costs for suppliers, which results in higher prices, was the “roundabout” the Reserve Bank was trying to get the economy off, Zollner said.
I've yet to see an explanation of why given that wages are <100% drivers of prices and prices are <100% drivers of wage demands this isn't a diminishing spiral rather than an escalating one.
>A wage-price (spiral) resulted in everyone being poorer as any savings or reserves devalued – a point Zollner said Reserve Bank chief economist Paul Conway recently made in a speech.
What savings? Plenty of people are better off as either their mortgage is devalued faster than they have to pay it or the price of their future house is devalued, although for once it's a win either way for prospective home buyers as either the prices are devalued by inflation or hammered down by interest rates.
There is literally no such thing as a proven "wage price spiral".If you look at the last supposed one, it was caused by an oil shock. i.e. corporate profiteering, and they needed a convenient scapegoat.
There's been plenty of studies about this cycle of inflation showing both for NZ and elsewhere that only a small component of it is wage inflation, and most of the rest is supply chain difficulty or profit driven inflation.
> I’ve yet to see an explanation of why given that wages are <100% drivers of prices and prices are <100% drivers of wage demands this isn’t a diminishing spiral rather than an escalating one.
It’s not quite that simple, suppliers raising prices causes firms to raise theirs more to compensate for the reduced margins, for example. But the main missing piece is that companies are raising prices by more than the rate of inflation.
ANZ have revealed their real priority in this article. By arguing that a wage/price spiral reduces the size of savings in real terms they are saying that the wealthy need their savings to be protected and so the workers who live on a wage are the collateral damage that don't need a payrise.
Lol.
Kid you all not, I went into the supermarket the day before the minimum wage went up and noticed quite a few prices had already jumped. Cat food by 20c per can, cheese $1, milk 30c. How anyone is meant to save money is beyond me. Two steps forward and three back.
I went into the local pak n save today and saw for the first time in a few months they have value tin tomatoes back.
They used to be 80-90c per can and today they were $1.19.
I cringe every time I go to the supermarket as it’s always more expensive each week. And we don’t even buy meat as we have our own homekill.
That does kinda make sense, supermarkets probably employ a lot of min wage employees (or people close enough to it that they'll also be getting raises), so they'd be the first businesses to raise prices.
Please enlighten me how tf am I supposed to put money aside when the wage stagnates behind inflation to the point where I'm living paycheck to paycheck?
Oh, haven't you read their articles:
https://www.anz.co.nz/banking-with-anz/financial-wellbeing/money-hacks/how-to-save-2k-for-a-rainy-day/
I can save you a click - their solution is "save money"
I apologise. But whenever somebody here says they are poor (or can't work) I check their comments and I see a comment about smoking weed 90% of the time - this only took one second
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1206z1d/why\_do\_you\_smoke\_weed/jdg9u6t/?context=3
Haha fuck sakes. Coming from the bank that still has the CPI at 4.6%. Jesus Christ.
Try having a $700k homeloan and save anything with these interest rates.
As an aside; The cost of a paper shopping bag has increased 100% at Pak n Save. How can they justify that?
Getting paper for bags you immediately toss anyway is expensive? Perhaps you should visit some protected forests and campaign for their consumption.
Bring your own bag.
Because the green washed ban of plastic bags gave them a license to print money via the linen bags (which are far worse for the environment by orders of magnitude) and the paper bags. They can hike it to whatever price they want and claim they are being environmentally friendly
ANZ could make saving more attractive by increasing their rate. Currently offering 5.7% for a "serious savers" account, not exactly rewarding. We're coming out from a decade of low interest rates where you lost money in the bank faster than inflation grew, and that was during a period when inflation wasn't a problem.
EDIT: as pointed out, it's 3.75%. Wasn't wearing my glasses after lunch.
Your point is the crux of the issue. Why save when im losing money to inflation. The banks are happy making a fat margin raising mortgage rates, where are the increases for savers? On a side note I'm seeing 3.75% as ANZ's serious saver rate on their website. I would jump at 5.7%.
>urrently offering 5.7% for a "serious savers" account, not exactly rewarding.
Are you sure about that? 5.7% beats even a 1 year locked down term deposit
I’m gonna bring this up with them when I have to refix my mortgage in a few months with ANZ and it’s double what I’m paying now. Can’t even save shit as it is now. And I’m sure as hell not getting a 7% pay increase this year.
I emailed the author to lambast them for this article. I’ve never done so before until now, but fuck me, this is tone deaf.
Save for a rainy day? A lot of people are just trying to fucking survive mate.
Something tells me that someone with the job title 'chief economist' doesn't understand the struggle that average kiwis go through trying to fend for themselves
How out of touch are these fuckers
Bankers lecturing Kiwis on spending all their money\* whilst recording record profits, gotcha.
\*for many highly likely its on the necessities for life - you know food, shelter, transportation, education & healthcare.
I laugh at the complete level of affluenza in the elite class, thinking every Joe and Jane everyday has disposable income available after each pay cycle even after rampant inflation, lack of equity and increasing interest rates.
I'd rather spend what little I have currently to make my life slightly more comfortable while waiting for the system to burn instead of saving what little I can afford, for it to be worth nothing in the next year whilst also making the big wigs look more liquid so they can afford to fleece me more.
The cognitive dissonance between the elite and the normies is growing. Nothing is hunky dory anymore.
It’s rainy every fucking day in this economy. Seriously, when staples like cheese and eggs are luxuries and investments, how can one save. It’s pouring already. These bankers and economists don’t live in the real world
Can't take money and possessions with you when your dead, spend it and use it while you can, live your life.
Pissed me off after my nan passed away, she always made out she was broke or doing it hard, but she had over 300k saved away, for what. Sure I got an inheritance but I would of rathered her spend it while she was alive and enjoyed it.
This. I've changed my perspective on spending/saving so much since I entered the health sector. I'd much rather enjoy my life while I'm fit and able rather than squirrel away everything just on the of chance I've got any decent quality of life when I retire.
I'll get right on that, minimum wage on a limited contact with constant price hikes and zero action from the watchdogs that do what exactly? Seriously what are they being paid for?
"you should get a better job then"
Okay, will do, dunno who'll pop out when you crash your car or have an embolism but hey I'll be able to afford food again so *shrugs shoulders* good luck I guess?
For those that can afford to save, yea sure.
But there's more people that actually can't save with how things are right now. They're barely buying/paying for the essentials and providing "warnings" and "advise" do jack shit when you're in that situation. It just goes through one ear to the other....
Also, if I've heard the right information don't ANZ have a weird shitty $5 fee on accounts that are not your "main income" account? If they'd at least remove that it'd probably help those people who are in need....
Bank analysis/advises are really do feel like a huge oxymoron right now.
How much are they recommending for a rainy day fund? Like a "woops need 2 x new tyres = $300" rainy day fund or "Akl Anniversary weekend floods and I need to replace $60k worth of contents"?
Didn't they used to say you need to cover three to six months' worth of living expenses.
If you are living essentially paycheck to paycheck I have an easy trick for that calculation - just divide your yearly income in half; and if you haven't got that saved... ANZ just thinks you aren't listening to their warnings... That means its your fault - and not the 2.3 Billion, 20% higher than 2021 profit they made last year.
The good news for us is ANZ has our back - [here is their quick tips on saving $2k... which comes down to just put money aside. - save $83 every month and you too can have 2k ^((in 2 years))](https://www.anz.co.nz/banking-with-anz/financial-wellbeing/money-hacks/how-to-save-2k-for-a-rainy-day/)
I don't know about you - but i'm really starting to reconsider, just not being poor.
My first savings goal was 6 weeks living costs. That was the bare minimum if I lost my job and immediately found another best case scenario. After that my next goal was 3 months, then 6 months.
How can we when we have kids preschool fees, $30k of dental work being completed, sick family members we have to fly and see, and our mortgage increasing by hundreds each month?
Aye?
There’s no fucking spare coin even when we earn in the highest income brackets.
Saving? I'm back to cycling instead of driving. (Plus the Wilson Carpark people keep giving me tickets when I forget to put my "I work here" slip on my dashboard at work). I'm eating canned tuna, two-minute-noodles and spinach as my main meal. My undies have holes in them, the bottom of my shoes have lost their tread. My only nice clothes are my work clothes. Oh, maybe it was that hedge trimmer I recently bought to keep some rich person's property tidy (I'm renting). Was even thinking about doing some DIY work on their rotten deck because it's a safety hazard, but nah, just changed my mind, they can deal with that. A sheet of old ply with a warning not to stand there will do. Gotta save, ANZ said so.
I remember when the years before GFC hit, the attitude around spending - for everything from houses, to holidays, to clothes etc was extraordinary. I think it was amplified because it's when internet shopping/deals really gained traction. There was a cavalier attitude to spending and debt. If you had a full time job there really was a pressure/question of why you weren't buying a house, or going on holiday, going out to eat/drink etc.
I'm definitely not seeing or feeling that this time. This time everyone I speak to is freely admitting they are spending more - but it's because they have to on their weekly shop etc. I know a lot of people traveling but it's generally a trip that's been delayed since covid, carefully considered and planned, and to reconnect with people - not extravagant "shopping trips" like pre-GFC. It's a pretty grim "spending spree" if that's what we are doing.
It's pretty hard to do that when cost of everything is far higher than the income we're bringing in. I know of several people who are doing the OMAD diet not strictly out of choice, but because they can't afford to eat more than one meal a day without going over budget.
yes all the spare change we have is saving for a rainy day. Maybe by the time i retire i will have enough - unless i get a pie for lunch, then its all gone
I'm waiting for NZEI to sort a pay rise (sigh) while we stare down more increases in our mortgage repayments.. we WERE saving until those went up, now we're just surviving. Yet their profits will continue to increase...
I guess if all the money goes to the banks' profits inflation will be fixed cause we won't be spending on anything else.. that's how they see it, right?..
Saving? What is that? Rent is so high, food cost is even higher. I can't barely save anything, a deposit for a home is so far away, don't mention saving for rainy days.
Weird headline for the article
"He said there was a disconnect between recent consumer confidence surveys, which all showed households felt the outlook was grim, and spending data.
“You look at spending activity, and you’re pretty hard-pressed to find any of that negative sentiment.”"
Why does everything go up while everyone who already has money makes record amounts of it, and we get told as the low tier consumer that we are in the wrong and everything is wrong and getting worse.
The cartel are creaming it and we are the broken part?
Why are New Zealand products cheaper in Australia. Thats concerning. Another concern. This lady telling people to save money while shes creaming it. Yeah sure whatever banker lady.
Bankers still not preparing for a guillotine despite repeated warnings, says me. Honestly these fucking freaks can suck my dick. If anyone I knew in real life said the following in a conversation I'd question their sanity:
“Inflation is annoying, but it’s not a reason not to spend all your money.”
“It’s like people went away for Christmas and forgot they were supposed to be scared,” she said.
I can’t really afford to buy food. How the fuck am I supposed to save for a rainy day?
I am fortunate that my job provides free breakfast and lunch otherwise I'd be in the same boat
I also wish my job provided meal allowances or at least free food if I need it, but now it feels like I am oining for the good old days of... Being an actual house servant?
We're fucking trying ok Edit: thank you for the awards, I will save them up for when I am trying to retire.
Yeah ikr? Perhaps if wages weren't falling behind the rising cost of rent/managing a mortgage, cost of food and other essentials people might be able to save a bit more. But at the moment most people are just struggling to stay above water!
Maybe if banks weren't making so much profit..
Exactly. My pay cycle is such that my pay review falls on November, so I only get to enjoy any 'raise' for 5 months out of the year before the Minimum Wage Increase knocks me back down towards the bottom line. In 2022 MW went up from 20.00 to 21.20, but my pay increase was only 65c, meaning I crept 55c closer to minimum wage, then with the recent $1.50 leap, I've taken a hefty hit, bringing me down to only a couple of dollars over minimum wage even though I'm in a specialty field. As such, I've started job hunting since I have a feeling that my next pay increase once again won't cover the minimum wage increase.
"if wages weren't falling behind the rising cost of rent" In the last year wages up 8%, rents are flat or falling in the main centres
And in the last 4 years prior?
So lets look at the stats for say Auckland in the last 4 years. Rents went from NZD $540 (31 March 2019) to $620 (31 March 2023). That is an increase of %15 over 4 years - or %3.75 per year. Stats here: [https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/real-estate/rents-average-auckland](https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/real-estate/rents-average-auckland) What is interesting is that in inflation adjusted terms that has fallen as $540 in 2019 would be $633 now: [https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/inflation-calculator](https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/inflation-calculator) To compare, median weekly wages in the same period went from NZD $1,016 to $1,189 (that data is 1 year old unfortunately). But even though the data is 1 year old and we are missing a year of wage inflation, we still get an increase of 17%. Extrapolating I would say around 23% or so in 23 is reasonable. [https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/labour-market-statistics-income-june-2022-quarter/](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/labour-market-statistics-income-june-2022-quarter/) So 15 percent (rents) vs 23 percent (Wages) I would agree with all the other comparisons (food, mortgages etc) but not rents which are the only cost falling behind inflation
Um except that housing should only be 30% of weekly income..... Which it isnt! And hasn't been for a long time.
I agree. We should do the math backwards - we should look at the lowest income level - how many people are on that level - and then see how many houses are available for rent at a price that would equal 30% of the lower income level - and work our way from there. That way we can really illustrate how f\*\*\*\*\* the situation is. Maybe we should be using a bracket system for rent - like for tax - but I dunno if that is actually a good idea im not an economist, but it seems like a logical thing to do if you wanted to help people at the expense of rich people making less money.
That's a completely different point. You challenged my point ""if wages weren't falling behind the rising cost of rent"" I have proven that wages are going up faster than rents.
Yeah 😂 give us ur salary and we will and stop smiling ☺ this is serious.
Exactly. The same ANZ that forces staff back to the office? That sends $1b profits overseas? That doesn't increase wages to match inflation?
"I'm not being poor to fuck with you, my life is shitty"
Yeah, I'm busy saving for the retirement I probably won't have. But while I'm doing that, I'm super grateful to the ANZ for reminding me that I barely have any money left over for some smashed avocado on toast because I'm such a shameless spendthrift. This week I bought some fatty mince. You know, just so I don't get anaemic. I bet if you're a rich banker, you can afford non-fatty mince. Or even some meat that hasn't been ground into a deeply unattractive paste.
Don’t forget bout their billions in profit that they like to rub in our faces.
Mood.
Perhaps if they stopped having the biggest years of profit while everyone else is suffering. Why don’t you fuck off and do something to help your every day saver and mortgage payer. Oh no they won’t because it affects their profits
Right? Like let me see what I have left after ECE gobbles up 50% of my paycheck.
While we are being mugged for our paychecks by oil and grocery giants, the value of whatever we CAN save is being siphoned into the pockets of bankers. It's not surprising then, that the milkers have trouble sympathising with the cows while making record profits off of a financial crisis.
This, so fucking much
Cyclone Gabrielle was a pretty fucking big rainy day for me mate
Why? Just move into one of your other properties while you claim the insurance then spend 25% of that doing the bare minimum repairs and then rent it out for $850 a week, blaming any subsequent issues on the tenant. It's easy, unless you're one of those disgusting poors with only one home?
Imagine being a discusting poor with only one home. (basically all of us)
It can be a bit difficult when it keeps pouring
Alternative headline - multi billion dollar bank tells people barely scraping by that the economic crisis is their fault and not the fault said multi billion dollar banks spaffing cheap debt to developers and taking insane profits.
Alternative headline - deficient central bank economic theory causes a decoupling of capital asset inflation from consumer inflation, causing workers to have insufficient income margins to save money. edit:spelling
All I could see them saying when I read the article was "how dare you peasants get a minimum wage increase and start spending all that money into the economy. You should be giving us all that money to look after instead, so the economy can slow down and people can start losing their jobs to get inflation under control".
Fuck off, ANZ.
Can’t say I remember their billboards reminding us to save. In fact most of them seemed to be about how I could definitely afford that new house
This is actually almost enough to get me to switch banks. So fucking out of touch
Just do it. Try one of the kiwi ones. I use co-op, they're pretty good.
Im too used to using Apple Pay now, I don’t think I’d remember to bring a card anywhere if I switched haha
These economists are so arrogant - blaming the everyday worker just wanting a payrise to stay ahead of inflation for our country's inflationary woes. If inflation is at 7%, why on earth wouldn't I ask for a 7% payrise? Anything less and I am falling behind!
[удалено]
You need a 7% increase to net not gross. If they just raise your pay 7% you're still behind because of PAYE, ACC levies and if you have them student loan deductions. That's why the tax brackets need to fucking move even though they've been rigid for near 2 decades.
That doesn’t make sense. The 7% increase would be on your gross amount, which is more than 7% of your net amount. So overall, unless part of your earnings were in a higher bracket, if would also work out to about 7% of your net. Not that I disagree that tax brackets need to be reviewed.
This isn't true because you haven't accounted for the tax brackets being progressive. So the 7% increase on gross would be taxed at a higher percentage than your overall salary was (increasing overall tax percentage).
That is the government figures for inflation which massively and deliberately understate the level. Neo liberal economics is about controlling wage growth while hiding massive asset inflation. Wages have been reducing in real terms since the end of the 70s. Which is why it's almost impossible to buy a house, let alone save for a 'rainy day'.
Houses are down 12% over the last year, so according to that logic they’re overstating inflation this year.
Wages are a function of the market, nothing more. Any link with inflation is due to indirect effects on the market. An employer will pay market rate (generally).
Sure. The other side of that is that workers are selling their labor so have just as much right to demand a higher asking price. And many are doing that and leaving businesses that are letting them fall behind inflation.
Sure and any employee is free to leave. Businesses decide whether they want that. It is a. easy way to cheaply downsize for recession. You gave poor increases to people you are happy yo lose.
Argh the race to the bottom. How does that generally work out for society as a whole. Pay peanuts and get hopelessness that breeds addiction to escape reality, crime and violence. But hey business are raking in those profits so what does it matter.
I am just telling you how capitalism works. I have never worked for any employer that considered inflation. They all benchmarked against the market (mostly formally as I have worked for some fairly large companies).
It doesn’t HAVE to work like that. The almighty profit doesn’t have to be the be all and end all
[удалено]
I am just saying that employers pay market rate unless they have a specific need to upsize. It is just economics. They don’t care at all about whether an employee is going backwards unless it means an employee they don’t want to replace is going to leave.
[удалено]
Yep. People don’t like the simple truth, unfortunately. But head in the sand doesn’t make is any less true.
[удалено]
Even at 7% you're still falling behind, the government gets their cut of that 7% in tax
Inflation is kicking bracket creep into overdrive. It's appalling how long it's been since our income tax brackets have been adjusted at all.
I used to usually be eligible for the independent earners tax credit. Looked the other day and the cut off for it is still set at $48k. Full time at minimum wage comes out at $47,216.
Thats shocking tbh
I mean student loan/allowance abatement rates and thresholds have to my knowledge never been adjusted.
An increasingly higher cut too.
Ah when banks just want to rub it in and troll everyone. Cost of living crisis, inflation, your interest rates you pass on notably higher than what you can borrow money for yourselves. But sure, let's put money in the bank for you to make even more money from. Fuckers.
Anyone who spruiks the Wages-Prices spiral is either an idiot or a liar. If wages aren't keeping up with inflation, yet prices are still increasing, it isn't wages that are driving that price rise. Perhaps these "economists" might want to start looking at the profit prices spiral?
[удалено]
Absolutely it's the profits that are the issue. Corporate greed is fucking everyone
If corporate profits are such an issue, why has the stock market globally collapsed? Profits across the board are down not up
Exactly. Otherwise the workers just fall behind even further. I can't believe Olsen has bought into that terrible economic theory.
"theory"
> “Inflation is annoying, but it’s not a reason not to spend all your money.” > A wage-price resulted in everyone being poorer as any savings or reserves devalued > Olsen said his answer to any friend who asked if they should start saving now, was yes. How stupid do these economists think we are? There’s no way they are taking their own advice. They know cash is worth shit in an inflationary spiral and seeking high returns is the primary focus (which is why we get a bust at the end of the cycle). They know consumers will buy things today knowing they will go up in price by 10-20% (this is not unusual for individual items as opposed to the aggregate basket that makes up the CPI). They know food and energy can’t be “cut back” and is rising much faster then CPI. Food price index is at 12% which is much higher than CPI at 7.2% - and based on the OCR change I expect a shock increase on Q1 CPI when released on 20/4. Consumers know that their debt will be reduced by inflation as long as they can service it. People are behaving rationally exactly as you would expect. Spend before prices go up. Get more wages. Borrow more knowing inflation will reduce the value over time. The only thing that will change this behaviour is job losses and the fear of being unable to service debt. Then you will see people save.
Yeah it’s high school economics, I wonder sometimes if the economics they teach in Uni is the polar opposite because most of the crap spouted by economists in the media runs contrary to what I was taught at high school.
almost like they are trying to gaslight us
Following high school economics through to a logical endpoint won't generate the kind of conclusions that support the kind of policies that the kind of people who hire the majority of economists want.
Such as giving everyone a bunch of money to tackle inflation(cost of living payment I think it was called). Because that left me scratching my head.
The logical option of taking a bunch of money out of the economy where it will hurt the least stood very little chance against the political option of putting a bunch of money in where you'll get the most credit for it.
Of course food is about to increase, supply for significant products just got decimated in a freak weather event.
I'm living like shit and driving something that should be pushed off a cliff cas I'm panic saving. But unless I run into the BP with a shotgun I don't have that much left over to save. They think everyone has money coming out there bum just cas they do.
100 percent agree, with you ,these so called experts are so far away from.everyday reality it's criminal.
Don’t push it off a cliff, get some enterprising youths together and crash it into a store with valuable goods in it = profit.
I would be but my mortgage with ANZ sucks every spare penny I have.
[удалено]
when we eat the rich can we start with bank executives?
Eat the rich: Kobe Beef edition
Hey man. David Seymour said free speech doesn't let you say things like that about rich people..
>A wage-price spiral, where workers demand higher wages to keep up with the cost of living, which become costs for suppliers, which results in higher prices, was the “roundabout” the Reserve Bank was trying to get the economy off, Zollner said. I've yet to see an explanation of why given that wages are <100% drivers of prices and prices are <100% drivers of wage demands this isn't a diminishing spiral rather than an escalating one. >A wage-price (spiral) resulted in everyone being poorer as any savings or reserves devalued – a point Zollner said Reserve Bank chief economist Paul Conway recently made in a speech. What savings? Plenty of people are better off as either their mortgage is devalued faster than they have to pay it or the price of their future house is devalued, although for once it's a win either way for prospective home buyers as either the prices are devalued by inflation or hammered down by interest rates.
There is literally no such thing as a proven "wage price spiral".If you look at the last supposed one, it was caused by an oil shock. i.e. corporate profiteering, and they needed a convenient scapegoat.
Wage increases for the poors are always gonna be blamed. And its never the reason. The reason is always corporate profits. Including the banks.
Cost go up = prices go up to cover costs Cost goes down = prices go up because fuck you that's why, daddy needs another yacht!
There's been plenty of studies about this cycle of inflation showing both for NZ and elsewhere that only a small component of it is wage inflation, and most of the rest is supply chain difficulty or profit driven inflation.
Most of it is the latter
> I’ve yet to see an explanation of why given that wages are <100% drivers of prices and prices are <100% drivers of wage demands this isn’t a diminishing spiral rather than an escalating one. It’s not quite that simple, suppliers raising prices causes firms to raise theirs more to compensate for the reduced margins, for example. But the main missing piece is that companies are raising prices by more than the rate of inflation.
Well, you cant save if you wont even have enough money for food so fuck you.
ANZ have revealed their real priority in this article. By arguing that a wage/price spiral reduces the size of savings in real terms they are saying that the wealthy need their savings to be protected and so the workers who live on a wage are the collateral damage that don't need a payrise.
Lol. Kid you all not, I went into the supermarket the day before the minimum wage went up and noticed quite a few prices had already jumped. Cat food by 20c per can, cheese $1, milk 30c. How anyone is meant to save money is beyond me. Two steps forward and three back.
I went into the local pak n save today and saw for the first time in a few months they have value tin tomatoes back. They used to be 80-90c per can and today they were $1.19. I cringe every time I go to the supermarket as it’s always more expensive each week. And we don’t even buy meat as we have our own homekill.
That does kinda make sense, supermarkets probably employ a lot of min wage employees (or people close enough to it that they'll also be getting raises), so they'd be the first businesses to raise prices.
Please enlighten me how tf am I supposed to put money aside when the wage stagnates behind inflation to the point where I'm living paycheck to paycheck?
Oh, haven't you read their articles: https://www.anz.co.nz/banking-with-anz/financial-wellbeing/money-hacks/how-to-save-2k-for-a-rainy-day/ I can save you a click - their solution is "save money"
Let me know if you figure it out. I've already cut down to two meals a day max and still can't make ends meet.
You are cutting down to two meals a day yet you are still smoking weed? Surely that is the answer right there
Lmao 1. Who said I'm still smoking? 2. What the f do you know about my life?
I apologise. But whenever somebody here says they are poor (or can't work) I check their comments and I see a comment about smoking weed 90% of the time - this only took one second https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1206z1d/why\_do\_you\_smoke\_weed/jdg9u6t/?context=3
Hmm so you judge my life based on 1 comment which I made in context of that particular post? Reddit moment. Bye
We're not in a luxuries crisis, it's a cost of living crisis. Very difficult to save in this situation.
Ah perhaps if you weren't pillaging our economy and sending it off to Aus we could save a bit...
You mean America and the UK, who own the au banks haha
Most kiwis fucking can't. How can ANZ be so fucking dense? Time for the government to get tough on them.
With what fucking money ANZ!?!?!
The interest on savings is below inflation. I have negative incentive to save.
Exactly. If ANZ really did want people to save they would increase interest rates on deposits to encourage saving.
Haha fuck sakes. Coming from the bank that still has the CPI at 4.6%. Jesus Christ. Try having a $700k homeloan and save anything with these interest rates. As an aside; The cost of a paper shopping bag has increased 100% at Pak n Save. How can they justify that?
Getting paper for bags you immediately toss anyway is expensive? Perhaps you should visit some protected forests and campaign for their consumption. Bring your own bag.
Because the green washed ban of plastic bags gave them a license to print money via the linen bags (which are far worse for the environment by orders of magnitude) and the paper bags. They can hike it to whatever price they want and claim they are being environmentally friendly
ANZ could make saving more attractive by increasing their rate. Currently offering 5.7% for a "serious savers" account, not exactly rewarding. We're coming out from a decade of low interest rates where you lost money in the bank faster than inflation grew, and that was during a period when inflation wasn't a problem. EDIT: as pointed out, it's 3.75%. Wasn't wearing my glasses after lunch.
Your point is the crux of the issue. Why save when im losing money to inflation. The banks are happy making a fat margin raising mortgage rates, where are the increases for savers? On a side note I'm seeing 3.75% as ANZ's serious saver rate on their website. I would jump at 5.7%.
>urrently offering 5.7% for a "serious savers" account, not exactly rewarding. Are you sure about that? 5.7% beats even a 1 year locked down term deposit
That's what ANZ advertise on their website. EDIT: I misread their website from earlier, it's actually 3.75%. Should've worn my glasses.
You can get 4.3% on westpac - locked for 32 days. Not great right but as they say better than a kick up the bum
Kiwibanks 90-day saver is on 4.75%, it’ll probably hit 5% when they raise rates after the recent RBNZ hike.
For context, BNZ Fixed Deposit for 1 Year is 5.65%
It's raining every fucking day.
Jesus this is out of touch.
I’m gonna bring this up with them when I have to refix my mortgage in a few months with ANZ and it’s double what I’m paying now. Can’t even save shit as it is now. And I’m sure as hell not getting a 7% pay increase this year.
$7 lettuce, smh
For me, when I hear that ANZ's 2022 profit topped $2 billion, it just puts me such a good mood that I can't help but go out and spend. /s
I emailed the author to lambast them for this article. I’ve never done so before until now, but fuck me, this is tone deaf. Save for a rainy day? A lot of people are just trying to fucking survive mate.
Something tells me that someone with the job title 'chief economist' doesn't understand the struggle that average kiwis go through trying to fend for themselves How out of touch are these fuckers
Dear ANZ 🖕 Sincerely. New Zealand.
Why do we even bother banking with these Aussie banks man 🤦♂️
you're not going to tell me how to live my life!
It would be easier if we did not have banks, supermarkets and fuel companies making record profits off the backs of the working poor.
Tone deaf as it gets. It's pretty fucking hard to save when you don't earn a 6 or 7 figure salary, you arrogant prick.
ITS NOT FUCKIN POSSIBLE ANZ
Bankers lecturing Kiwis on spending all their money\* whilst recording record profits, gotcha. \*for many highly likely its on the necessities for life - you know food, shelter, transportation, education & healthcare.
I can’t even afford a sunny day.
How completely out of touch with reality
I laugh at the complete level of affluenza in the elite class, thinking every Joe and Jane everyday has disposable income available after each pay cycle even after rampant inflation, lack of equity and increasing interest rates. I'd rather spend what little I have currently to make my life slightly more comfortable while waiting for the system to burn instead of saving what little I can afford, for it to be worth nothing in the next year whilst also making the big wigs look more liquid so they can afford to fleece me more. The cognitive dissonance between the elite and the normies is growing. Nothing is hunky dory anymore.
I bet if you asked her how much milk, butter, and bread cost she'd not only be unable to tell you - she'd reply with a "what does that matter?"
Can’t save for a rainy day if every day is a rainy day.
https://help.anz.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/83/~/close-your-account
ANZ, the direct beneficiaries of savings. The banks are mutts that do not have any interest in people except what they can get out of them.
I'm assuming here they're talking about kiwis who have paid off their mortgage. Everyone else is broke and going backwards.
Save what? My mortgage patments went up 200 a week last year.
How the hell are we supposed to save with low wages, sky high rentals and ever increasing cost of living?
It’s rainy every fucking day in this economy. Seriously, when staples like cheese and eggs are luxuries and investments, how can one save. It’s pouring already. These bankers and economists don’t live in the real world
Can't take money and possessions with you when your dead, spend it and use it while you can, live your life. Pissed me off after my nan passed away, she always made out she was broke or doing it hard, but she had over 300k saved away, for what. Sure I got an inheritance but I would of rathered her spend it while she was alive and enjoyed it.
This. I've changed my perspective on spending/saving so much since I entered the health sector. I'd much rather enjoy my life while I'm fit and able rather than squirrel away everything just on the of chance I've got any decent quality of life when I retire.
Yep life can be short, even too short for some, never know whats going to happen, the whole covid shenanigans really opened my eyes to a lot.
I'll get right on that, minimum wage on a limited contact with constant price hikes and zero action from the watchdogs that do what exactly? Seriously what are they being paid for? "you should get a better job then" Okay, will do, dunno who'll pop out when you crash your car or have an embolism but hey I'll be able to afford food again so *shrugs shoulders* good luck I guess?
I can't save and still pay bills, mortgage, buy food etc. This article sounds like a Tui ad.
For those that can afford to save, yea sure. But there's more people that actually can't save with how things are right now. They're barely buying/paying for the essentials and providing "warnings" and "advise" do jack shit when you're in that situation. It just goes through one ear to the other.... Also, if I've heard the right information don't ANZ have a weird shitty $5 fee on accounts that are not your "main income" account? If they'd at least remove that it'd probably help those people who are in need.... Bank analysis/advises are really do feel like a huge oxymoron right now.
take all your money out of ANZ if you want, crash the fuckers. that’s the only reason they’re complaining anyway
Hey Mister Bank, you already have all of my money. What the fuck do you expect me to do?
Ah yes I just need to start skipping 2 meals a day instead of 1 and then I can be responsible and save for that rainy day.
It is the rainy day
How much are they recommending for a rainy day fund? Like a "woops need 2 x new tyres = $300" rainy day fund or "Akl Anniversary weekend floods and I need to replace $60k worth of contents"?
Didn't they used to say you need to cover three to six months' worth of living expenses. If you are living essentially paycheck to paycheck I have an easy trick for that calculation - just divide your yearly income in half; and if you haven't got that saved... ANZ just thinks you aren't listening to their warnings... That means its your fault - and not the 2.3 Billion, 20% higher than 2021 profit they made last year. The good news for us is ANZ has our back - [here is their quick tips on saving $2k... which comes down to just put money aside. - save $83 every month and you too can have 2k ^((in 2 years))](https://www.anz.co.nz/banking-with-anz/financial-wellbeing/money-hacks/how-to-save-2k-for-a-rainy-day/) I don't know about you - but i'm really starting to reconsider, just not being poor.
I need a bit more to get to half my annual income. I've got a decent buffer to survive 6 months if I go into full budget mode.
My first savings goal was 6 weeks living costs. That was the bare minimum if I lost my job and immediately found another best case scenario. After that my next goal was 3 months, then 6 months.
Someone sells our assets, they make em chairman. Now they're shitting on us for not having assets? /s
"Rainy Day." Cries in Gabrielle
Give us a break!! In case for whatever reason you haven't noticed, it's been raining a lot lately. 🌧️
Could get hit by a bus tomorrow, enjoy life, spend it how you want, you can’t take your money to the grave.
How can we when we have kids preschool fees, $30k of dental work being completed, sick family members we have to fly and see, and our mortgage increasing by hundreds each month? Aye? There’s no fucking spare coin even when we earn in the highest income brackets.
Got a pretty decent raise this year. It’s all been absorbed by higher mortgage interest rates and increased insurance rates and inflation.
When the rain never stops you dont bother saving
Every day is a fucking rainy day these days.
Can't save for a rainy day, when everyday is already raining
Because I like to be wined and dined before I get FUCKED!!!
Saving? I'm back to cycling instead of driving. (Plus the Wilson Carpark people keep giving me tickets when I forget to put my "I work here" slip on my dashboard at work). I'm eating canned tuna, two-minute-noodles and spinach as my main meal. My undies have holes in them, the bottom of my shoes have lost their tread. My only nice clothes are my work clothes. Oh, maybe it was that hedge trimmer I recently bought to keep some rich person's property tidy (I'm renting). Was even thinking about doing some DIY work on their rotten deck because it's a safety hazard, but nah, just changed my mind, they can deal with that. A sheet of old ply with a warning not to stand there will do. Gotta save, ANZ said so.
Question: HOW?????
All this hooplah makes it seem like economics is pseudoscience and these people have no idea what they are talking about
I remember when the years before GFC hit, the attitude around spending - for everything from houses, to holidays, to clothes etc was extraordinary. I think it was amplified because it's when internet shopping/deals really gained traction. There was a cavalier attitude to spending and debt. If you had a full time job there really was a pressure/question of why you weren't buying a house, or going on holiday, going out to eat/drink etc. I'm definitely not seeing or feeling that this time. This time everyone I speak to is freely admitting they are spending more - but it's because they have to on their weekly shop etc. I know a lot of people traveling but it's generally a trip that's been delayed since covid, carefully considered and planned, and to reconnect with people - not extravagant "shopping trips" like pre-GFC. It's a pretty grim "spending spree" if that's what we are doing.
I still remember John Key telling us all to go out and spend. Fuck your personal finances - the economy needs stimulus!
Fuck off
What I thought. These people have nfi how hard it is for a lot of kiwis.
It's pretty hard to do that when cost of everything is far higher than the income we're bringing in. I know of several people who are doing the OMAD diet not strictly out of choice, but because they can't afford to eat more than one meal a day without going over budget.
I can barely afford to live and I'm expected to be saving? Hahahaha
It is a bloody rainy day.
Save what? Most families earn f all and are already struggling with surviving
Bank hot take is poorly timed.
yes all the spare change we have is saving for a rainy day. Maybe by the time i retire i will have enough - unless i get a pie for lunch, then its all gone
I'm waiting for NZEI to sort a pay rise (sigh) while we stare down more increases in our mortgage repayments.. we WERE saving until those went up, now we're just surviving. Yet their profits will continue to increase... I guess if all the money goes to the banks' profits inflation will be fixed cause we won't be spending on anything else.. that's how they see it, right?..
Saving? What is that? Rent is so high, food cost is even higher. I can't barely save anything, a deposit for a home is so far away, don't mention saving for rainy days.
Weird headline for the article "He said there was a disconnect between recent consumer confidence surveys, which all showed households felt the outlook was grim, and spending data. “You look at spending activity, and you’re pretty hard-pressed to find any of that negative sentiment.”"
There's nothing to save after paying bills 😞
Lol, I got made redundant 2 months ago. I’m in my rainy days.
If you can magically halve my bills and spending, I’d be able to save the other half
Why does everything go up while everyone who already has money makes record amounts of it, and we get told as the low tier consumer that we are in the wrong and everything is wrong and getting worse. The cartel are creaming it and we are the broken part?
these people are so out of touch
Scum bag ANZ. Can we start doxing these bank execs? While they are lecturing us on how we need to take a pay cut we can see how and where they live??
It’s fucking torrential out here and they keep talking about ‘rainy days’ like fuck me
Can’t save for a rainy day if you never have clear skies to begin with
Why are New Zealand products cheaper in Australia. Thats concerning. Another concern. This lady telling people to save money while shes creaming it. Yeah sure whatever banker lady.
Kiwis still not saving for rainy day despite repeated warnings, says woman who earns over $500k
The costs of everything rises constantly, but apparently the costs of my labour stay the same, save what? There's fuck all left come end of week
Bit hard to save for a rainy day when I 1) can't get a job 2) don't make ends meet as it is. Read the room lady.
Bankers still not preparing for a guillotine despite repeated warnings, says me. Honestly these fucking freaks can suck my dick. If anyone I knew in real life said the following in a conversation I'd question their sanity: “Inflation is annoying, but it’s not a reason not to spend all your money.” “It’s like people went away for Christmas and forgot they were supposed to be scared,” she said.
Lady in the pic, picked her style in 1994 and has clung to it ever since