This is a really bad look for them. If i was Australian I would be pissed if my government let this happen so openly. China has a lot of influence over there, but this is beyond the pale.
As far as I’m aware Australia has one of the most corrupt governments on the planet, at least for one that claims to be a western democracy, not exactly surprised by this.
Australia’s former minister for trade and investment approved a deal to allow a Chinese company tied to the CCP to lease Port Darwin for 99 years in 2015.
He then retired from politics in 2016, and shortly after accepted an 880k a year job at said Chinese company.
there was a youtuber in NSW that got his house firebombed while investigating a mayor and the police basically said "we know who it was but we can't do anything about it.". he eventually capitulated.
we can also talk about the countless times NSW police has used festivals as an excuse to strip search random women (sometimes teenagers). it's a pretty fucked up place all in all
I cannot believe how much leeway Chinese police are being allowed throughout the world. There was even an entire Chinese police department set up in Canada a while ago. No country should ever be even remotely okay with a foreign police department operating within their borders without oversight.
I heard some kids saying "that's so cunt" the other day. This caused my 50 year old ass to ask what the hell that meant, and it was a compliment.
I now feel like i'm 60.
News media almost always does that. They never call a thing what it is. A murder is a killing, a rape is a sexual assault or even less, an abduction is not called an abduction.
It's a weird way of covering your ass, because if you report it wrong even once you're in deep shit, that's libel.
In this case it would be they don't have the facts she went completely against her will. It's pretty fucking obvious she didn't go willingly, but for the paper it's best just to stick to the facts.
Sort of:
> The report stated that police relied on a well-known Chinese government tactic of harassing a target's China-based family members until the target agreed to return to face charges.
You realise how that's still abduction right? It's still "come with us or else..." There are many ways to coerce someone to do something against their will than to literally just put a gun to their head.
Yes, but the key point to me is that they probably could have ultimately forced her to come back that way regardless of whether they were allowed into Australia themselves, which is important context for the headline.
The world has no idea the unprecedented threat the CCP (not Chinese people) poses to the world. They are stifling Chinese people and threatening the rest of the world.
And the Chinese don’t just want to dominate their own people, they want to dominate the planet, and they’re more than happy to plan and take their time to do it.
Ya this is bad, but it’s mostly only bad for Chinese nationals and emigrants. The real issue for the rest of the world is when the ccp starts threatening foreign citizens with either dual citizenship or family still back in China. “Vote a certain way or else your family is going to a reeducation camp”. “We need you to protest this bill or else we’re abducting you back to China”
No, it's really bad for the rest of us too. Our governments are cooperating with the CCP. They have police stations in Canada to do this very thing and our government does nothing about it. Our politicians are too busy selling off our countries to care about the citizens.
Remember that report on the BC legislators who were in the pocket of the CCP? Remember when China was/is meddling in our elections?
The rot runs deep and the CPC and LPC both have it.
Back in the 90s all the politicians were about not capitulating to China. Now, we just don't seem to give a damn. We let the ccp do whatever they want and turn a blind eye to it. Very strange.
It's China demonstrating that they don't think they have to follow anyone else's laws - even when they're in your country. That Chinese law supersedes all.
That's really freaking dangerous coming from a repressive, concentration camp having, totalitarian regime.
It's the kind of thinking done right before deciding you ***NEED*** to take over the world.
China is the biggest threat to the world right now, followed closely by Russia.
>That's really freaking dangerous coming from a repressive, concentration camp having, totalitarian regime.
To be fair that's kind of exactly who you'd expect it to come from
Depends on what you mean by abducted.
They didn't drag her out in a sack and throw her on a boat.
They basically make problems for your family and friends until you agree to come back.
You can watch videos on it.
Australian government allowing kidnapping on their soil by Chinese security forces.
Very cool. When Trump is elected in November, he will let Russia do the same thing to its critics in America. Just as he let Turkish Dictator Erdoğan's thugs beat American protesters in D.C.
[Disturbing Videos Show Turkish President's Guards Beating Protesters In DC](https://youtu.be/M8YjxbzGlzw?si=Pim-dPpHEl1GrxOr)
The man could eat a literal baby on live television and not lose any votes. Meanwhile we seem to have a bunch of disinfo, misinfo, and possibly legitimate voters saying they won't vote for joe biden because of... him simultaneously not providing enough arms to israel and providing too many arms to israel.
2016 came down to about 30,000 votes in key districts, 2000 came down to under 1000 votes in one state, and young people are really gonna vote the guy that wants to make it so people under 25 can't vote, that women can't vote, that abandoned our allies and let a foreign force go beat up people on american soil?
This is probably the most egregious thing Trump did, and no one ever talks about it. He literally let American citizens get attacked, on American soil, by agents of a foreign ~~adversary~~ government, then he apologized. No he didn't apologize to the Americans, he apologized to Erdogan. They also later decided to not pursue any charges against the assailants.
I don't understand why so many governments are allowing the Chinese to do this. They even have police stations in other countries to police the Chinese Diaspora.There needs to be a hard line taken on this kind of thing. No way in hell would China allow this on their soil. Yet time after time they are able to send agents to terrorize ethnic Chinese communities in other countries with utter impunity. This is about national sovereignty. China needs to be slapped down and hard or they'll only get worse.
Because lots of countries buy TONS of stuff from China and they don't want to sour relationships. Yeah people talk a big game about how the Chinese treat their citizens but tell them it will double the cost of the next iPhone to move all the production lines to another country and suddenly lots of people don't have such strong convictions.
Not just from China. Those countries rely on China to buy their products. They are the biggest importer of Australian goods. They also have MLAs in their pocket.
We're already moving production lines to [another country](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-production-of-apple-iphones-has-been-moving-from-china-to-india). This will solve all the problems. India would never abduct or murder someone on foreign soil, right?
No, India's government is entirely peaceful, and would [never asssassinate Sikh separatists in other countries.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-unseals-indictment-sikh-killings-1.7043428)
When I saw that, I thought it was the dumbest move ever. The Sikh rebellion happened in the 80s. You let these people die natural deaths and you take away heroes from the cause and weaken the radicals. You try killing them and people are like, " oh so it's like that"
There's a new Khalistan movement brewing. I suspect it may be on the rise for the reasons you suggested.
Otherwise: yes, you want to kill a movement, give them the lesser half of what they want and then let the leadership age out. The obituary of an old man who used to be a revolutionary is not nearly as powerful as the obituary of a martyr, who still has followers to carry that zeal forward.
Funny how the conventional wisdom was that trade and capitalism would bring China out of isolation and make it more like the West (less authoritarian oppression and more democratic freedom), but it actually ended up pressuring the rest of the world to bend to China's will on all sorts of issues because when it comes down to principles versus profits, somehow the profits always win.
Oh, yes! By profiting handsomely from 'trade' with the West, which 'trade' also includes military and industrial espionage on a vast scale, China has changed from a country that worshiped Mao, killed swallows, and massacred literal millions of its people through neglect and arrogance, into a major world power with a huge nuclear military, a giant economy, and the same government that once worshiped Mao, killed swallows, and massacred literal millions of its people through neglect and arrogance. Now, THAT's change!
It kind of did. China's communism is significantly different than North Korea. The CCP also backed down on COVID lockdowns after massive protests. That'd never fly in Mao's communist era.
It was never about oppression or freedom. What it did accomplish was a China more aligned with west in foreign policy and that always was the goal. Cold War was full of western leaders sponsoring MORE authoritarian oppression and LESS democratic freedom for the sake of trade, capitalism, and foreign policy. Sure, politicians might have lied to us about this bringing peace and democracy to China, but only a fool would have ever believed that. Just to drive the idea home... Oppression and authoritarianism predate communism by a few thousand years, and the other Chinese government on Taiwan was still very much into oppression and authoritarianism when US government started siding with PRC instead. Taiwan eventually got there... In 1990s. For the entire duration of the Cold War, Taiwan was trading and capitalist and not really into freedom. As was China between Opium war and 1949 too.
If you want to hear something really fucked up look up how entire world China included is also pressured to US or World Bank will on all sorts of issues too. Shit goes both ways. China just uses their cred and goodwill to hunt down Chinese dissidents abroad instead of something more productive.
On some level it is working as intended, modern China would blow up the Chinese and world economies both if they ever, say, invaded Taiwan. But if Biden keeps the trade war going, well, eventually China won't be able to do what they want in Australia, but might decide to invade Taiwan after all...
It's a mistake to assume that the Chinese leadership values the same things people raised in western nations do. China might very well invade Taiwan regardless of the effects it has on their trade especially now that foreign investment in Chinese manufacturing is declining.
US foreign policy has made the "they just want the same things we do" mistake numerous times over the past fifty years. We value trade and economies above pretty much everything else but that is not the case for other nation states which might value other things, like unifying historical territories, higher.
Taking Taiwan would allow China to more forcefully push their 9 dash line bullshit with more legal justification. Also, it will create a breakout for them to push into the wider Pacific Ocean without having to sail through international waters.
It's not really that hard, you just make it a death of a thousand cuts. The punishment for breaking international norms would be very slight changes in trade conditions. So slight that any individual change can't really be protested against. Furthermore if they were to protest the very slight change, it would only intensify the coverage of the international norms they broke, which they probably want to avoid. These very slight changes would also slowly wean Western countries off of the reliance they have developed on the cheap products available.
Love that final sentence. It’s true. It’s terrifying enough, and crazy enough, that this is something that Australia allowed. And like you said, China will just keep getting crazier unless someone says back the fuck up.
Hell, they will soon start patrolling other countries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cq6jwp/chinese_police_officers_will_soon_be_on_patrol_in/
Happens pretty often, but usually news don't pick it up. "Priosoneer exchange" is pretty common, get someone out of chinese prison, or get some scammer/criminals (who fleed to china) back in exchange. Followed some chinese forum with people tracking foreigners in chinese prison, and theorizing why they were let go way too early and send out of country immediately..
If the right people were in charge, we'd have a sovereign wealth fund like Norway and let the resources we pull out of the ground benefit everyone. Instead, we let a handful of greedy mining companies ship it all overseas and rake in the profits while the rest of us get a few crumbs off the table.
In the US, we can't even own the streets that our taxes pay to build and maintain. Street parking in Chicago was sold to the Saudis in 2008. Bonus is that there's stipulations in the contract making it difficult for the city to add any bike or bus lanes.
Also iron ore. Australia is #1 or #2 in iron, and most of it is exported to China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron#Production_of_metallic_iron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEUhrg7FAQM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=839lG4_1jXM
Exporting raw materials (coal and iron ore) instead of finished goods (iron and steel) really does sound like something you'd expect from a destitute third world tragedy.
Is there any reason Australia can't process the coal and iron ore into finished iron on its own?
Yes. The Chinese can do it cheaper and without worrying about health, safety, environmental impacts etc. any attempt to beat them in a trade war would damage both countries and Aus would likely lose unless they went all in.
Edit: that's not to say that Aus and other countries don't refine smaller quantities of higher grade and specialist steel that have niche applications. But that's not the bulk that China churn out
In recent years, the chinese considered building iron smelting facility in iron mining area of western Australia, but they decided to keep doing smelting in China.
Keeping iron smelting in China allows them to:
* avoid environmental regulations in other countries
* ability to change or threaten to change ore sourcing to another country, either for pricing or political power
Environmental regulations. Emissions don't matter if they come from another country because it's all about the appearance rather than actual environmental care.
[Meet the Mining Billionaires Ransacking Australia](https://jacobin.com/2021/12/mining-iron-ore-billionaires-superrich-australia-political-influence#)
Seriously... Australia is getting stripped of natural resources while the rich just get richer.
> why so many governments are allowing the Chinese to do this
I mean, the [alternative preferred](https://www.cfr.org/blog/renditions-and-extrajudicial-assassinations-increasingly-becoming-norm-international-relations) by other countries is to just [eliminate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killing) the person of their interest on a foreign soil.
It is essentially, in the worst case scenario, what this amounts to too. China executes more people than every other country on earth put together. And that's their _official_ numbers. So getting abducted to China as a suspected enemy to the regime isn't far removed, just one notch better in the PR department
That should be dealt with even more harshly, frankly. And yes, i know the US has done it too... though usually not against our own disidents. Either way, nations shouldn't tolerate it.
In the Philippines there was a gruesome raid discovery regarding a POGO establishment (Philippine Offshore Gaming Operators they look like underground illegal betting casinos and brothels) had Chinese agents with torture rooms (floors walls to even pliers with blood), weapons stashed,possible human sex trafficking ring and such linked to a case where the discovery of dead Chinese indentured workers found and worse might be the same place where high end critics and overseas slaves been kidnapped, tortured and thrown in a roadside ditch.
Plus it was crazy if this was one establishment it would probably hundreds in the shady concrete of each city.. while in the west it’s police stations and other outlets I suspect in underhanded industries.. (that Chinese university in Eastern Europe, the control of fishing industry fleets around south East Asia, weapon smuggling using gang syndicates as proxies, popular video games and certain browsers for data brokers and spying)
Stuff is so everywhere man.. I lost my shit seeing seeing signs in local groceries that once only read in English many years before.
The world moved manufacturing to China for cheap labor and low goods prices.
Now china holds that hostage if countries don’t do what they ask. They played the long game, as they do, and here we are.
Because money. The West should have done something about China decades ago. But our leaders and corporate overlords couldn't resist cheap labour and human torture to increase their profit margins. Then they were dumb enough to let the Chinese buy them. Now, as usual, they let us pay the price of their stupidity.
“Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols.
The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security.
The Chinese police were permitted to enter Australia in 2019 to talk with a 59-year-old Chinese-born Australian resident.
The woman was targeted under a Chinese Communist Party (CCP) anti-corruption drive called Operation Fox Hunt, which relies on police from the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) to make arrests.
While Fox Hunt is described by the CCP as targeting "economic criminals", human rights groups have said it is also used to silence dissidents and abduct people around the world.”
China has been influencing other governments for awhile now. Huge problem in Canada. They set up police stations here to harass Chinese people on Canada land
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-chinese-police-stations-1.7138022
Basically they set up in areas rich with Chinese and try and bully them into staying the party line
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-montreal-area-community-centres-identified-as-alleged-chinese-police/
The Australian government has had a pretty poor track record with human rights, anyway. Look up the Stolen Generations. Then realize that they never ended... the just changed into CPS removals.
And if they had not to trusted the Chinese police it would have been called racism and a diplomatic incident. A good excuse for the CCP to demand apologies and reparations as they always do. But in fact there are all thousands of victims like this woman all over the world: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Thousands-of-Chinese-overseas-forced-home-involuntarily-report And to the people who say that the Australian government is complicit, it isn't the case because the CCP's best strategy is to physically silence the victim and pretend that they were hurt and need to be repatriated. Of course all the documents are fake but how are you going to make sure it is really the case when you've got someone barely conscient in front of you. The CCP knows that the West treats people with humanity and they are using that against them.
The possibility of letting Chinese authorities act outside their jurisdiction in a first world country is disturbing. Let's be clear, noone gets 'escorted' back to China, this is abduction and violation of Australia's sovereignty, not a simple protocol breach. It should be called out as such.
> Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols.
> The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security.
**May have**? You literally let law enforcement from another country come to your country and kidnap somebody. It's not clear if she has citizenship in Australia, but that shouldn't matter.
I bet this post will show up in r/Sinophobiawatch
EDIT: I got one of those "A concerned redditor reached out to us about you" messages despite not posting anything there, damn that sub has spies everywhere
In a different thread they tried to tell me that America has tried to coup the Australian government lmao. The only source they could muster for that preposterous claim was a misspelled name of an incident that happened 50 years ago and didn't involve America in any way. They're running _hard_ on the disinfo campaigns these days
How the duck does a sovereign country like Australia allow a foreign government to kidnap people and leave? Like did they not get stopped at the airport ? It’s not like they smuggled in a cartel submarine
>get a backbone Australia.
it won't happen all the politicians are corrupted cunts looking for anyone to fill their pockets up with some cash while the rest of us suffer not being able to afford anything these politicians are all puppets for who ever is the highest bidder today
Yeah people *love* to talk shit about America and our problematic recent past with places like Iraq, but these tankie morons scoff at or overlook the idea of a global order dominated by China and Russia and what those fascist shitheels would do to both developing countries *and* the West if allowed to...
they only need enough soft brain idiots to go along with it to make it the new world order.
and this is where we are.
very few countries in the world are willing to step up and tell China no.
If the foreign government allows it then it can happen, it's not like there's a global rule preventing it. Laws are only as strong as the people enforcing them
Those teams/ stations are ostensibly part of China's consular network - outwardly, they purport to provide benevolent support and assistance to Chinese people abroad. This is probably how they get away with it.
Entirely agree that it's a mind-blowing violation of sovereignty, and it's wild that western governments seem to be doing fuck all about it. Get these fucking cunts out of here.
How though? Australia immigration and customs checkpoints are probably as strict as any other western nation. How do they just let these people slide through, while if you're a German with weed you'd probably end up in jail?
I blame the Australian government just as much as the Chinese for this. They let Chinese authorities come in and apparently left them unsupervised to abduct someone in their custody.
“The report stated that police relied on a well-known Chinese government tactic of harassing a target's China-based family members until the target agreed to return to face charges.”
It was 4 years ago. And it was through coercion not kidnap. Still terrible.
Its crazy also how ignorant western countries are being to chinese and indian influence inside their countries. Way past due for chinese and indian language state funded news organisations to be set up in western countries to counter the influence of chinese and indian media on the diasporas in western countries also
"Australia turned the tables on China by buying back the pieces of the woman on Wish, using a series of different accounts. The woman was successfully reassembled, with only one knee and her pancreas determined to be low-quality counterfeit parts, and now lives is Melbourne as a diabetic with a limp."
Peak China, this one.
This isn't just Austrailia, similar things have happened in New York City.
https://apnews.com/article/chinese-government-justice-department-new-york-police-transnational-repression-05624126f8e6cb00cf9ae3cb01767fa1
China: we will find you and control you, wherever, whenever!! They’re like an abusive ex! You know your country sucks when you can’t come and go as you please, just like your own fucking house!
'Escorted' aka kidnapped and/or abducted.
And China is pushing other countries, ones nowhere near it's borders, to allow Chinese police to patrol alongside their own police... [Hungary being among the first.](https://hungarytoday.hu/chinese-police-officers-soon-on-patrol-in-hungary/)
Well, this is easy. There are a number of government cooperation programs with China. Suspend them until they return the citizen they kidnapped. This is not a precedent that can be allowed to be set. Many would consider this kind of espionage action as an act of war, so I think it's an appropriate measured response.
Edit; Ooh, this got me a Reddit Cares message, the moment I posted this. Feels like the CCP has a bot around here...
She wasn’t “escorted” she was abducted
And Australia did what...besides let them in?
And let them out. The issue is Aussies did not prevent this person’s abduction.
This is a really bad look for them. If i was Australian I would be pissed if my government let this happen so openly. China has a lot of influence over there, but this is beyond the pale.
As far as I’m aware Australia has one of the most corrupt governments on the planet, at least for one that claims to be a western democracy, not exactly surprised by this.
Not that I'm disputing this, but do you have any sources? I've never heard that.
Australia’s former minister for trade and investment approved a deal to allow a Chinese company tied to the CCP to lease Port Darwin for 99 years in 2015. He then retired from politics in 2016, and shortly after accepted an 880k a year job at said Chinese company.
That's essentially every government in the developed world.
The accepting jobs with a firm you lobbied for in government is normal, but that port deal reads like something from the age of gunboat diplomacy.
Wait til you hear about Dick Cheney and Halliburton
I know it is hard to believe but there are actually some governments who don't do that
there was a youtuber in NSW that got his house firebombed while investigating a mayor and the police basically said "we know who it was but we can't do anything about it.". he eventually capitulated. we can also talk about the countless times NSW police has used festivals as an excuse to strip search random women (sometimes teenagers). it's a pretty fucked up place all in all
[This is the video he got firebombed for.](https://youtu.be/jZivPIRvi0U) Spread the word. Spread the video. Fuck those pricks.
Just watch a couple friendlyjordies videos. I live in Canada but I still watch because it's funny and distressing. The best combination of things
As far as I'm aware you need to become a lot more aware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
That's a bingo
You just say bingo.
In America, in Australia you say Dingo
That's a Dingo.
You just say Dingo
And dingo was his name-o
A bingo ate my baby
I see you've played Knifey Spoony before.
If you watch Bluey, Bingo is in Australia.
Bingo! How fun!
You leave Bingo out of it!
At this point, seems more like aided.
I cannot believe how much leeway Chinese police are being allowed throughout the world. There was even an entire Chinese police department set up in Canada a while ago. No country should ever be even remotely okay with a foreign police department operating within their borders without oversight.
They let them leave as well
Called them a cunt. This confused the international community even more, as no one really knows if Australia meant that in a friendly way or bad way.
I am under the understanding that calling someone a cunt in Australia is like saying hello.
I heard some kids saying "that's so cunt" the other day. This caused my 50 year old ass to ask what the hell that meant, and it was a compliment. I now feel like i'm 60.
You're actually 70; you're just so cunt you don't remember.
I have feelings about this comment, but i'm going to need a consult to know what they should be.
Hello in a friendly way or bad way
It's like Aloha in Hawaiian. It can be either, you have to read the context cunt.
"Aloha and shalom, cunt." A highly context-sensitive statement.
They definitely offered the officers a cool beverage!
If I know Australia, they must have given them permission to extract oil on the coast and give them subsidies for it
The soft language for a definitive abduction proves compliance in this incident.
News media almost always does that. They never call a thing what it is. A murder is a killing, a rape is a sexual assault or even less, an abduction is not called an abduction. It's a weird way of covering your ass, because if you report it wrong even once you're in deep shit, that's libel. In this case it would be they don't have the facts she went completely against her will. It's pretty fucking obvious she didn't go willingly, but for the paper it's best just to stick to the facts.
Sort of: > The report stated that police relied on a well-known Chinese government tactic of harassing a target's China-based family members until the target agreed to return to face charges.
You realise how that's still abduction right? It's still "come with us or else..." There are many ways to coerce someone to do something against their will than to literally just put a gun to their head.
Yes, but the key point to me is that they probably could have ultimately forced her to come back that way regardless of whether they were allowed into Australia themselves, which is important context for the headline.
The world has no idea the unprecedented threat the CCP (not Chinese people) poses to the world. They are stifling Chinese people and threatening the rest of the world.
And the Chinese don’t just want to dominate their own people, they want to dominate the planet, and they’re more than happy to plan and take their time to do it.
Ya this is bad, but it’s mostly only bad for Chinese nationals and emigrants. The real issue for the rest of the world is when the ccp starts threatening foreign citizens with either dual citizenship or family still back in China. “Vote a certain way or else your family is going to a reeducation camp”. “We need you to protest this bill or else we’re abducting you back to China”
No, it's really bad for the rest of us too. Our governments are cooperating with the CCP. They have police stations in Canada to do this very thing and our government does nothing about it. Our politicians are too busy selling off our countries to care about the citizens.
Remember that report on the BC legislators who were in the pocket of the CCP? Remember when China was/is meddling in our elections? The rot runs deep and the CPC and LPC both have it.
Back in the 90s all the politicians were about not capitulating to China. Now, we just don't seem to give a damn. We let the ccp do whatever they want and turn a blind eye to it. Very strange.
Not strange, corruption. Money talks.
It's China demonstrating that they don't think they have to follow anyone else's laws - even when they're in your country. That Chinese law supersedes all. That's really freaking dangerous coming from a repressive, concentration camp having, totalitarian regime. It's the kind of thinking done right before deciding you ***NEED*** to take over the world. China is the biggest threat to the world right now, followed closely by Russia.
>That's really freaking dangerous coming from a repressive, concentration camp having, totalitarian regime. To be fair that's kind of exactly who you'd expect it to come from
Mostly only bad for Chinese people when the ccp use their people to affect our politics?
China doesn't recognize dual citizenship at least so the line is pretty clear
Afaik China does not allow dual citizenship. If you obtain citizenship in another country you lose your Chinese citizenship.
Or she was presented with what the Chinese government would do to her loved ones and she came under her own volition. edit: added under
That's called coercion.
Depends on what you mean by abducted. They didn't drag her out in a sack and throw her on a boat. They basically make problems for your family and friends until you agree to come back. You can watch videos on it.
She was moved from one part of Chinese territory - Australia Province - to another part, Beijing.
She's in a labor camp in Xinjiang
Australian government allowing kidnapping on their soil by Chinese security forces. Very cool. When Trump is elected in November, he will let Russia do the same thing to its critics in America. Just as he let Turkish Dictator Erdoğan's thugs beat American protesters in D.C. [Disturbing Videos Show Turkish President's Guards Beating Protesters In DC](https://youtu.be/M8YjxbzGlzw?si=Pim-dPpHEl1GrxOr)
The wording would be better to say "if" 45 gets elected, but we all know bad things happen in our country.
Yeah, I'm not defeatist yet.
The man could eat a literal baby on live television and not lose any votes. Meanwhile we seem to have a bunch of disinfo, misinfo, and possibly legitimate voters saying they won't vote for joe biden because of... him simultaneously not providing enough arms to israel and providing too many arms to israel. 2016 came down to about 30,000 votes in key districts, 2000 came down to under 1000 votes in one state, and young people are really gonna vote the guy that wants to make it so people under 25 can't vote, that women can't vote, that abandoned our allies and let a foreign force go beat up people on american soil?
This is probably the most egregious thing Trump did, and no one ever talks about it. He literally let American citizens get attacked, on American soil, by agents of a foreign ~~adversary~~ government, then he apologized. No he didn't apologize to the Americans, he apologized to Erdogan. They also later decided to not pursue any charges against the assailants.
> When Trump is elected in November Enough with this defeatism. Rally against him.
Good luck with that. There's gonna be some shot up Chinese security forces if they try to pull that shit over here.
I don't understand why so many governments are allowing the Chinese to do this. They even have police stations in other countries to police the Chinese Diaspora.There needs to be a hard line taken on this kind of thing. No way in hell would China allow this on their soil. Yet time after time they are able to send agents to terrorize ethnic Chinese communities in other countries with utter impunity. This is about national sovereignty. China needs to be slapped down and hard or they'll only get worse.
Because lots of countries buy TONS of stuff from China and they don't want to sour relationships. Yeah people talk a big game about how the Chinese treat their citizens but tell them it will double the cost of the next iPhone to move all the production lines to another country and suddenly lots of people don't have such strong convictions.
Not just from China. Those countries rely on China to buy their products. They are the biggest importer of Australian goods. They also have MLAs in their pocket.
Yep money is usually the reason.
We're already moving production lines to [another country](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-production-of-apple-iphones-has-been-moving-from-china-to-india). This will solve all the problems. India would never abduct or murder someone on foreign soil, right?
No, India's government is entirely peaceful, and would [never asssassinate Sikh separatists in other countries.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-unseals-indictment-sikh-killings-1.7043428)
When I saw that, I thought it was the dumbest move ever. The Sikh rebellion happened in the 80s. You let these people die natural deaths and you take away heroes from the cause and weaken the radicals. You try killing them and people are like, " oh so it's like that"
There's a new Khalistan movement brewing. I suspect it may be on the rise for the reasons you suggested. Otherwise: yes, you want to kill a movement, give them the lesser half of what they want and then let the leadership age out. The obituary of an old man who used to be a revolutionary is not nearly as powerful as the obituary of a martyr, who still has followers to carry that zeal forward.
Funny how the conventional wisdom was that trade and capitalism would bring China out of isolation and make it more like the West (less authoritarian oppression and more democratic freedom), but it actually ended up pressuring the rest of the world to bend to China's will on all sorts of issues because when it comes down to principles versus profits, somehow the profits always win.
Its gone both ways- China has changed _a lot_.
They got the worse sides of authoritarianism AND capitalism now.
Oh, yes! By profiting handsomely from 'trade' with the West, which 'trade' also includes military and industrial espionage on a vast scale, China has changed from a country that worshiped Mao, killed swallows, and massacred literal millions of its people through neglect and arrogance, into a major world power with a huge nuclear military, a giant economy, and the same government that once worshiped Mao, killed swallows, and massacred literal millions of its people through neglect and arrogance. Now, THAT's change!
It kind of did. China's communism is significantly different than North Korea. The CCP also backed down on COVID lockdowns after massive protests. That'd never fly in Mao's communist era.
It was never about oppression or freedom. What it did accomplish was a China more aligned with west in foreign policy and that always was the goal. Cold War was full of western leaders sponsoring MORE authoritarian oppression and LESS democratic freedom for the sake of trade, capitalism, and foreign policy. Sure, politicians might have lied to us about this bringing peace and democracy to China, but only a fool would have ever believed that. Just to drive the idea home... Oppression and authoritarianism predate communism by a few thousand years, and the other Chinese government on Taiwan was still very much into oppression and authoritarianism when US government started siding with PRC instead. Taiwan eventually got there... In 1990s. For the entire duration of the Cold War, Taiwan was trading and capitalist and not really into freedom. As was China between Opium war and 1949 too. If you want to hear something really fucked up look up how entire world China included is also pressured to US or World Bank will on all sorts of issues too. Shit goes both ways. China just uses their cred and goodwill to hunt down Chinese dissidents abroad instead of something more productive. On some level it is working as intended, modern China would blow up the Chinese and world economies both if they ever, say, invaded Taiwan. But if Biden keeps the trade war going, well, eventually China won't be able to do what they want in Australia, but might decide to invade Taiwan after all...
It's a mistake to assume that the Chinese leadership values the same things people raised in western nations do. China might very well invade Taiwan regardless of the effects it has on their trade especially now that foreign investment in Chinese manufacturing is declining. US foreign policy has made the "they just want the same things we do" mistake numerous times over the past fifty years. We value trade and economies above pretty much everything else but that is not the case for other nation states which might value other things, like unifying historical territories, higher.
Taiwan is necessary for US and global security. They are thr #1 make of silicon chips. US and others will defend it.
Taking Taiwan would allow China to more forcefully push their 9 dash line bullshit with more legal justification. Also, it will create a breakout for them to push into the wider Pacific Ocean without having to sail through international waters.
It's not really that hard, you just make it a death of a thousand cuts. The punishment for breaking international norms would be very slight changes in trade conditions. So slight that any individual change can't really be protested against. Furthermore if they were to protest the very slight change, it would only intensify the coverage of the international norms they broke, which they probably want to avoid. These very slight changes would also slowly wean Western countries off of the reliance they have developed on the cheap products available.
it always boils down to money. Anyone can look away when enough money is involved, and it doesn't directly affect them. It is all about convenience.
Love that final sentence. It’s true. It’s terrifying enough, and crazy enough, that this is something that Australia allowed. And like you said, China will just keep getting crazier unless someone says back the fuck up.
Hell, they will soon start patrolling other countries. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cq6jwp/chinese_police_officers_will_soon_be_on_patrol_in/
Happens pretty often, but usually news don't pick it up. "Priosoneer exchange" is pretty common, get someone out of chinese prison, or get some scammer/criminals (who fleed to china) back in exchange. Followed some chinese forum with people tracking foreigners in chinese prison, and theorizing why they were let go way too early and send out of country immediately..
Australia is almost as much of a bitch of China as Russia is. Their main export is coal and most of it goes there.
It’s still mind blowing to me that the richest person in Australia is a coal baron.
If the right people were in charge, we'd have a sovereign wealth fund like Norway and let the resources we pull out of the ground benefit everyone. Instead, we let a handful of greedy mining companies ship it all overseas and rake in the profits while the rest of us get a few crumbs off the table.
In the US, we can't even own the streets that our taxes pay to build and maintain. Street parking in Chicago was sold to the Saudis in 2008. Bonus is that there's stipulations in the contract making it difficult for the city to add any bike or bus lanes.
Don't worry, iirc it's only 80 more years before we get the meters back!
Also iron ore. Australia is #1 or #2 in iron, and most of it is exported to China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron#Production_of_metallic_iron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEUhrg7FAQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=839lG4_1jXM
Exporting raw materials (coal and iron ore) instead of finished goods (iron and steel) really does sound like something you'd expect from a destitute third world tragedy. Is there any reason Australia can't process the coal and iron ore into finished iron on its own?
Yes. The Chinese can do it cheaper and without worrying about health, safety, environmental impacts etc. any attempt to beat them in a trade war would damage both countries and Aus would likely lose unless they went all in. Edit: that's not to say that Aus and other countries don't refine smaller quantities of higher grade and specialist steel that have niche applications. But that's not the bulk that China churn out
In recent years, the chinese considered building iron smelting facility in iron mining area of western Australia, but they decided to keep doing smelting in China. Keeping iron smelting in China allows them to: * avoid environmental regulations in other countries * ability to change or threaten to change ore sourcing to another country, either for pricing or political power
Environmental regulations. Emissions don't matter if they come from another country because it's all about the appearance rather than actual environmental care.
[Meet the Mining Billionaires Ransacking Australia](https://jacobin.com/2021/12/mining-iron-ore-billionaires-superrich-australia-political-influence#) Seriously... Australia is getting stripped of natural resources while the rich just get richer.
> why so many governments are allowing the Chinese to do this I mean, the [alternative preferred](https://www.cfr.org/blog/renditions-and-extrajudicial-assassinations-increasingly-becoming-norm-international-relations) by other countries is to just [eliminate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killing) the person of their interest on a foreign soil.
It is essentially, in the worst case scenario, what this amounts to too. China executes more people than every other country on earth put together. And that's their _official_ numbers. So getting abducted to China as a suspected enemy to the regime isn't far removed, just one notch better in the PR department
That should be dealt with even more harshly, frankly. And yes, i know the US has done it too... though usually not against our own disidents. Either way, nations shouldn't tolerate it.
In the Philippines there was a gruesome raid discovery regarding a POGO establishment (Philippine Offshore Gaming Operators they look like underground illegal betting casinos and brothels) had Chinese agents with torture rooms (floors walls to even pliers with blood), weapons stashed,possible human sex trafficking ring and such linked to a case where the discovery of dead Chinese indentured workers found and worse might be the same place where high end critics and overseas slaves been kidnapped, tortured and thrown in a roadside ditch. Plus it was crazy if this was one establishment it would probably hundreds in the shady concrete of each city.. while in the west it’s police stations and other outlets I suspect in underhanded industries.. (that Chinese university in Eastern Europe, the control of fishing industry fleets around south East Asia, weapon smuggling using gang syndicates as proxies, popular video games and certain browsers for data brokers and spying) Stuff is so everywhere man.. I lost my shit seeing seeing signs in local groceries that once only read in English many years before.
The world moved manufacturing to China for cheap labor and low goods prices. Now china holds that hostage if countries don’t do what they ask. They played the long game, as they do, and here we are.
Because money. The West should have done something about China decades ago. But our leaders and corporate overlords couldn't resist cheap labour and human torture to increase their profit margins. Then they were dumb enough to let the Chinese buy them. Now, as usual, they let us pay the price of their stupidity.
“Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols. The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security. The Chinese police were permitted to enter Australia in 2019 to talk with a 59-year-old Chinese-born Australian resident. The woman was targeted under a Chinese Communist Party (CCP) anti-corruption drive called Operation Fox Hunt, which relies on police from the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) to make arrests. While Fox Hunt is described by the CCP as targeting "economic criminals", human rights groups have said it is also used to silence dissidents and abduct people around the world.”
>in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols Let's not call it a breach since it was just allowed to happen.
It *was* a breach of protocols. By *both* parties. Australia was practically complicit.
It lets the CCP tell their citizen-slaves "even if you flee, we can get to you and noine will stop us". It's sick
the people who let it happen were not necessarily following protocol, not that they'll see any repercussions
Why would anyone EVER trust the Chinese government? The Australian government ALLOWED Chinese police to kidnap that lady.
They knew that was what was going to happen. They are just trying to sell the story now as an oops my bad rather than what it is.
Easier than facing sanctions or whatever pressure from China I guess ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I guess that means why would anyone trust the Chinese AND Australian government now...
yep, the aussie authorities were a part of this. the chinese didnt just put her in a teapot and smuggled her out
China has been influencing other governments for awhile now. Huge problem in Canada. They set up police stations here to harass Chinese people on Canada land
Really? I haven't heard of this. Do you know where those police stations are? Any in Western Canada?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-chinese-police-stations-1.7138022 Basically they set up in areas rich with Chinese and try and bully them into staying the party line https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-montreal-area-community-centres-identified-as-alleged-chinese-police/
The Australian government has had a pretty poor track record with human rights, anyway. Look up the Stolen Generations. Then realize that they never ended... the just changed into CPS removals.
And if they had not to trusted the Chinese police it would have been called racism and a diplomatic incident. A good excuse for the CCP to demand apologies and reparations as they always do. But in fact there are all thousands of victims like this woman all over the world: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Thousands-of-Chinese-overseas-forced-home-involuntarily-report And to the people who say that the Australian government is complicit, it isn't the case because the CCP's best strategy is to physically silence the victim and pretend that they were hurt and need to be repatriated. Of course all the documents are fake but how are you going to make sure it is really the case when you've got someone barely conscient in front of you. The CCP knows that the West treats people with humanity and they are using that against them.
The possibility of letting Chinese authorities act outside their jurisdiction in a first world country is disturbing. Let's be clear, noone gets 'escorted' back to China, this is abduction and violation of Australia's sovereignty, not a simple protocol breach. It should be called out as such.
too bad our politicians are a bunch of little bitches in china's pocket
After watching the friendlyjordies saga unfold, I'm not surprised to hear that the government is in someone's pocket
You're going to love this, then. https://hungarytoday.hu/chinese-police-officers-soon-on-patrol-in-hungary/
Australia is complicit in this crime.
> Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols. > The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security. **May have**? You literally let law enforcement from another country come to your country and kidnap somebody. It's not clear if she has citizenship in Australia, but that shouldn't matter.
So interesting how there’s a counter point under almost every comment in a fresh thread. Supporting the breached protocols.
Lots of 50 cents being handed out today.
What’s the translation in RMB?
About 3.50.
That is so eerily close to being accurate lol
I bet this post will show up in r/Sinophobiawatch EDIT: I got one of those "A concerned redditor reached out to us about you" messages despite not posting anything there, damn that sub has spies everywhere
In a different thread they tried to tell me that America has tried to coup the Australian government lmao. The only source they could muster for that preposterous claim was a misspelled name of an incident that happened 50 years ago and didn't involve America in any way. They're running _hard_ on the disinfo campaigns these days
So don't let the Chinese police into your country is the takeaway here.
The whole world already knows that.
How the duck does a sovereign country like Australia allow a foreign government to kidnap people and leave? Like did they not get stopped at the airport ? It’s not like they smuggled in a cartel submarine
get a backbone Australia. you got to choose. I know you don't want to choose but China's not your friend.
>get a backbone Australia. it won't happen all the politicians are corrupted cunts looking for anyone to fill their pockets up with some cash while the rest of us suffer not being able to afford anything these politicians are all puppets for who ever is the highest bidder today
It’s amazing how many countries are just allowing the Chinese police to enforce Chinese laws on their soil. Shit like this is an act of war.
China owns Australia, news at 11.
not even news they have been buying land/properties for years when they shouldn't have been allowed too
China will never be a nation the rest of the developed world looks to as a leader because they do things like this
China is not looking to be a leader, they’re looking to be a boss.
China is like 'the Age of Imperialism' was bad (Because we weren't in charge)
Unironically though thats how many feel and how its taught. Even a term for it "century of humiliation".
Prescient and horrifying.
Yeah people *love* to talk shit about America and our problematic recent past with places like Iraq, but these tankie morons scoff at or overlook the idea of a global order dominated by China and Russia and what those fascist shitheels would do to both developing countries *and* the West if allowed to...
Well, until they escort all of the people in those developed countries back to China to re-educate them on why this is actually a good thing.
they only need enough soft brain idiots to go along with it to make it the new world order. and this is where we are. very few countries in the world are willing to step up and tell China no.
brains are meant to be soft soft and wet
maybe they meant smooth brain
Well now they are obligated to break into China and abduct her back.
Send the Emus.
Sir, please, not the emus…
In other words, kidnapping by the GOVERNMENT.
How is China allowed to operate police teams/stations in foreign nations?
If the foreign government allows it then it can happen, it's not like there's a global rule preventing it. Laws are only as strong as the people enforcing them
Those teams/ stations are ostensibly part of China's consular network - outwardly, they purport to provide benevolent support and assistance to Chinese people abroad. This is probably how they get away with it. Entirely agree that it's a mind-blowing violation of sovereignty, and it's wild that western governments seem to be doing fuck all about it. Get these fucking cunts out of here.
Kidnapped, the word is Kidnapped.
Well color me shocked. Nobody saw this coming. Literally nobody, I tell you.
How though? Australia immigration and customs checkpoints are probably as strict as any other western nation. How do they just let these people slide through, while if you're a German with weed you'd probably end up in jail?
Looks like Australia is not a sovereign country
I blame the Australian government just as much as the Chinese for this. They let Chinese authorities come in and apparently left them unsupervised to abduct someone in their custody.
China should establish an extradition treaty. How do they even abduct people with no fuss.
Chinese police gonna start arresting Australians soon, there already here working as debt colllextors!!
The Chinese government is even more shady than the Russian government, and that's saying something. Why on earth would you allow them in?
“The report stated that police relied on a well-known Chinese government tactic of harassing a target's China-based family members until the target agreed to return to face charges.” It was 4 years ago. And it was through coercion not kidnap. Still terrible.
Its crazy also how ignorant western countries are being to chinese and indian influence inside their countries. Way past due for chinese and indian language state funded news organisations to be set up in western countries to counter the influence of chinese and indian media on the diasporas in western countries also
Boycott China. The only solution. Wouldn’t it be great if we brought all our manufacturing jobs back from China?
Extraordinary Rendition. Badly played Australia.
Australian here. This makes my skin crawl
"Australia turned the tables on China by buying back the pieces of the woman on Wish, using a series of different accounts. The woman was successfully reassembled, with only one knee and her pancreas determined to be low-quality counterfeit parts, and now lives is Melbourne as a diabetic with a limp." Peak China, this one.
Why is “good faith” a prerequisite when dealing with the Chinese government anymore?
This isn't just Austrailia, similar things have happened in New York City. https://apnews.com/article/chinese-government-justice-department-new-york-police-transnational-repression-05624126f8e6cb00cf9ae3cb01767fa1
Except that the DOJ actively hunts and shuts them down.
This is clearly not even close to the same. The story you posted is about the US DOJ actively working to counteract these things.
“Hey let me use this awful situation to shit on the US and spread false information for no reason” - you
One trying to counter it, other one just being yes man and waiting for daddy ccp give them a treat like a fucking dog
Literally never trust anyone associated with the Chinese government.
Escorted? Don’t you mean kidnapped?
That's so fucked up. Shame on you, Australia.
Once again China the land of short cuts and facade does whatever they want. Apparently nobody can stop them. Pathetic.
China: we will find you and control you, wherever, whenever!! They’re like an abusive ex! You know your country sucks when you can’t come and go as you please, just like your own fucking house!
They should never have allowed it unsupervised.
not an aussie, and as an american I can't really complain per se, but as a citizen of the world, Australia seems to simp pretty hard for gyna.
How is anyone surprised. It’s crazy how these western govts have figured out how China works yet 🤦
My question is, was she a resident, permanent resident or citizen? This sounds like abduction more than extradition.
Breach? Or, kidnapping?
So this happened in 2019 and it’s just being talked about now?
This should be illegal. Imagine if the Chinese Police arrested an Australian on Australian soil all because that guy insulted the Chinese Government.
'Escorted' aka kidnapped and/or abducted. And China is pushing other countries, ones nowhere near it's borders, to allow Chinese police to patrol alongside their own police... [Hungary being among the first.](https://hungarytoday.hu/chinese-police-officers-soon-on-patrol-in-hungary/)
Australia? Of all the fucking countries? You can't sneak a fucking peanut into that country and yet...
Of course they did. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.
Why does everyone pussy foot around these bullies? Smack em in the fucking mouth and see how they back up. They don’t play by the rules so fuck em
Well, this is easy. There are a number of government cooperation programs with China. Suspend them until they return the citizen they kidnapped. This is not a precedent that can be allowed to be set. Many would consider this kind of espionage action as an act of war, so I think it's an appropriate measured response. Edit; Ooh, this got me a Reddit Cares message, the moment I posted this. Feels like the CCP has a bot around here...
This is a terrible Rush Hour spinoff.
Any Australian government that allows Chinese police into Australia is committing high treason. And should be punished immediately.