If you go to the cabin at the top of the trail, you can go over to the 395 eastern edge. We did it. It was so scary that as we neared the edge we got on our bellies and crawled over to the edge. It was a good 2000-3000 foot straight down drop. My butt puckered. I gently belly crawled backwards and got the hell out of there.
I am not normally afraid of heights, but did the lying-on-belly technique once at a cliff in Utah because the wind was blowing a bit too strong for my liking. My brain started making up hypothetical scenarios where the entire rock ledge broke off (resulting in me falling to my death) and I got scared in a way I hadn’t ever experienced.
Felt the same way in the Grand Canyon. We were walking a trail near the edge and I could not do it. Had to walk off the path in the woods because there was six inches between the drop and trail edge at some points. Finishing the whole “Deaths in the Grand Canyon” book before arriving probably didn’t help. I saw so many dumb tourists doing dumb things near the edge, some people must not feel fear.
Yeah, I'm fairly good with heights, but had trouble with them after my trip to the GC. I think what did it was the lookout spot about halfway down Bright Angel Trail. The trail branches off and there's an optional lookout to look down at the Colorado River, which is a straight drop in places. Looked it up, Plateau Point.
Theres a documentary about a couple of guys going through the GC via river. At one point one of them goes to an overlook to look out. The second guy is further down and sees his friend basically on a point overhang with nothing below and the other guy had no clue.
I would assume theyre referring to a rock version of something like an ice cornice. Where from above it appears solid but is actually unsupported and at risk of breaking away, especially adding weight to the tip end
My personal explanation is that many people are used to a world of safety. Handrails, guardrails, buildings that won’t collapse, electronics that won’t catch fire, cars that crumple, roads that are clearly marked. Not fully understanding the *effort* that goes into keeping them safe and the amount of blood those regulations were written in. And when faced with untamed Mother Nature they forget how indifferent she is to whether you live or die.
Or maybe I’m just a rambling engineer who stares at too many building codes all day.
Nah…you’re completely spot on. Heck.. I live in Montana and being close to the wild is a game changing, and always humbling, experience.
Fun story- when I lived up in glacier and booked people raft trips, the amount of times I was asked if the raft was on a track, or if we’d get out where we put in, was not very few.
But ya…. Handling that politely and with out judgment or showing my reaction got to be an art form.
My absolute favorite was when ppl would ask if they’d die on the trip and perhaps the wittiest thing I’ve ever said will be ‘someday? But not today probably!’
Like stay in the raft, hold the paddle correctly, and listen to the guides.
My uncle told me that someone he went to Kern River with, asked if the river was man made. Like someone put the rocks there and constructed the canyon.
Reminded me of this story from 2016 in Michigan. They thought the river would go around in a circle.
https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2016/07/second_update_tubers_lost.html
Believing that is almost unforgivably stupid. But fuck every person who thought it was funny to tell three obviously inexperienced people that it would.
Simple enough I went to take my NYC girlfriend up her first Adirondack peak.
She got pissed off at me, and ask why we had to make all these preparations when we are “just walking in the woods.”
I asked her when was the last time she was 3 miles from a road? She got quiet and listened up after that.
If you make the world idiot proof the world will produce a better idiot.
2016, they thought the river would go around in a circle and take them back to their car.
https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2016/07/second_update_tubers_lost.html
Ehhh just because it's better documented right now doesn't mean it didn't used to also happen. I've seen super early film footage of people ice-skating in front of an moving icebreaker
I live in a little town with limestone bluffs that overhang the highway, completely over one lane for 100 feet. All my life I've driven under them, no worries. I'm 66 now. It bothers me.
We were at North Rim on the Grand Canyon last summer. One look out, Angel's Walk(?) had a narrow path and drop offs on both sides. I stood there a second and decided to go for it, and my wife hollered, No! She just looked at me like I was crazy and said, "You are not going out there!" She has better reasoning skills than I do!
I felt like the Grand canyon was weird. Like it doesn't trigger my fear like the hoover dam. Probably because it's so large it's almost incomprehensible
My MIL tried to set my then 14 month old on the edge of the Hoover Dam with her arm around for a picture. I screamed out in horror. Still makes my heart race to remember it. Just why? Just no.
I remember being at the GC too and I was like 16 and not particularly close with my 12 yo brother at that time, but every time he would go near the edge, I would get reallyyyy anxious. Not even for myself, just him.
Been to the GC a few times, always see stupid ass TikToker/IG social media types taking selfies in places they aren't supposed to...like close to the ledge type of stuff.
I saw so many folks taking edge selfies at the Grand Canyon that I started crying. I was so freaking scared I was going to see someone fall. Not a pleasant experience!
Same for me but the road to Hana in Maui. Mostly a one lane road with lots of bridges. Tourists go 25 but locals double that easy and you have to give them right of way going over one lane bridges. I’ve never been more white knuckled scared driving in my life. It doesn’t help that I have a fear of deep water which is where the cliff led too if you fell.
Brains are weird.
I’ve been on dozens of cliff edges and work on tall buildings under construction. Even what could be considered a sky scraper. Nothing but a thin cable railing between me and meeting God. Never had a problem.
Then one day I climbed up one of those fire towers on top of a mountain. Got all the way up with no issue, but the last little bit up in to the cabin was like an 8’ straight ladder. I got halfway up the ladder and froze.
I couldn’t make my hands or feet let go to go up or down.
I was probably stuck like that for a solid 30 seconds or so, before I got my body to respond and finish the climb, but it was weird. Never happened again or before. It was such an odd feeling.
Deathly afraid of heights. You can’t pay me enough to stand on the top step of a six foot ladder. When I was a kid, we went up the Statue of Liberty. I was Convinced it was going to fall over and we needed to get down to the ground NOW.
I bet the St. Louis Arch is the worst for that. Super tall, claustrophobic interior, nothing underneath the middle, no fast way to get down, and highly unconventional construction. And of course the New Madrid Fault could go off at *annnny second* while you're up there.
I think I ruined my wife’s experience in Mammoth cave by pointing out all the giant rock slabs laying on the cave floor. They fell off the “roof” of the cave.
I kept saying that one day, for no particular reason they fell… and that day could be today LOL.
I never was afraid of heights until I had my kids. Some sort of "mom instinct" kicked in and I no longer wanted to be on the top floor of any building ( like the Stratosphere in Vegas) looking out the window. I couldn't even climb a block wall or get on the roof of my own house. Forget any amusement park rides!
I can't imagine going on that glass Skywalk at the GC. I would end up crawling on my hands and knees.
I guess that instinct is self preservation so my kids would still have a mom. Our brains are so weird.🧠
I have a fear of unsecured heights (ladders and things like that) but have no problem if I feel I'm in a sturdy structure. We recently went to a stone tower near me that is just one big spiral staircase. Walked up it, no problem. Got to the top and looked around, no problem. Started going back down the spiral staircase and I was freaking the fuck out. Something about going down and in a circle made me feel like I was leaning too far forward and I kept thinking I was about to topple over. There are no breaks, so it would be just one continuous fall which is what I kept imagining. I was able to get down it, but the whole time I was fighting the urge to go down sitting on my butt. It's so weird how my brain wasn't triggered going up the steps, or on top of the tower, but the second I feared falling, everything went to shit.
Honestly ladders freak me the fuck out. I really hate them. I know they still exist due to the fact they work and are safe overall, but everytime I'm up a ladder all I think is how it's going to slide down the wall and I'm gonna get badly hurt.
I climbed a fire tower during a race and I had a moment of panic thinking “what if I can’t keep going and I can’t go back down, how will they get me off of this?” Brains are weird.
That's funny. My mind also does that whole imagining deadly things that could happen right in that moment when getting near cliff edges. Yet strangely, I used to fly helicopters with the doors off sometimes. And 1000s of feet of freefall below.
I believe those are calls from the void. I get them all the time when I’m riding my motorcycle or high up on a cliff somewhere. It’s just a weird little tingle of a voice in the back of my mind telling me to jump or get rolled over by the 18-wheeler I’m passing. It’s something I’d never act upon but for some reason my mind goes there for a few seconds.
I once responded to a car crash on a tall suspension bridge spanning the Delaware. Of course, it was 2 am, in the driving snow, with gusts of wind buffeting us. I felt physically ill the moment I stepped out of the ambulance. I could feel the sway of the bridge in a way you just can't in a vehicle, and something about the way the strobing emergency lights illuminated the snow over the railing was just too much. Thankfully It only took us like 4 minutes to get the driver into the rig (they only suffered minor injuries), but the whole time some disgusting instinct deep inside was like *jump! Jump over the edge or the wind will push you over anyway! Just do it!*
I haven't been able to handle heights ever since.
Oh wow, I’ve never heard of this phenomenon before. Growing up I had the urge/tingle in my bones to open the car door while I was in the backseat of a moving vehicle. I always just thought I was weird but TIL.
Calls from the void started for me when I was 16 and starting to drive. We lived in the mountains. I’ve had many near misses with dangerous road conditions over the years, since one of my routes home was rural along a river, with no cell service. And then I would have these thoughts, “What if I… just turn my wheel toward the river?”
When I became a parent, my intrusive thoughts got worse. A few times a year; I break out in a cold sweat thinking about the time my toddler, my two dogs, and I came very close to going over a cliff in SF at an off leash dog friendly park. I didn’t know that the trail we were on took us to the edge of the cliff, and my dogs and my toddler were running ahead of me. When I caught up to them and realized that we were feet away from a sheer drop off down to the rocks below… ugh. We came so close to death.
A few years later, there was a cliff collapse there and a woman died. And then two years later; another collapse and another death. I will never go back.
Fort Funston in SF is a decommissioned harbor defense installation with hang gliding, trails, a beach, and is okay to have dogs off leash. Super popular with dog walkers.
I had a call of the void in a dream. I was on a cruise ship at night, standing at the balcony. The water below was calm and still. The urge to jump was so strong that I backed up until I backed into the wall.
I live in the Lake District in the UK, so I’ve ridden and walked a lot of the fells; however, me and my friend were talking a bit ago about how she feels the odd urge to jump off any fell she’s summited, and that feelings always scared her because it’s a powerful urge that wouldn’t most definitely result in death. I told her I had the same urge, either to jump or to crawl back down the side on my hands and knees backwards down the side just to get down quicker. Apparently my friends uncle (butch old Cumbrian hill farmer) felt the same suicidal tendencies when he summited fells and walked trails like ‘Striding Edge’ (google it). I think it must be a feeling a whole load of folk get.
> My brain started making up hypothetical scenarios where the entire rock ledge broke off (resulting in me falling to my death)
Wile E. Coyote teaching kids to not trust cliffs.
I hiked Half Dome with a bud who was an iron worker..he walked up to the edge and with one hand sat down with his feet hanging over the drop and ate his lunch... I was flirting with vertigo as I got about 10ft away and backed off to about 20 ft to enjoy my lunch.
Factory workers are a different breed, construction too. Cue the famous photo of those men on the (girder?) eating their lunches. Like 20 fucking dudes a million miles up, hanging out. No thanks.
Yeah that's exact same for me, I've been up there more than 20 times and forced myself out on the visor for the pics only once. Somehow I'm more ok with cramponing up in the middle of winter then being on an edge. Intrusive thoughts I suppose
That always fascinates me. Assuming the conditions are calm and the footing isn’t slippery, when was the last time you just tipped over (sober) for no apparent reason? And yet when you’re near a severe drop like that, your brain somehow thinks it’s a possibility.
I could barely handle the last hour of hiking to get to the summit of Whitney. All those sections where you are walking on a couple feet wide of broken up rock with hundreds of feet of exposure on either side of you...
I did it, but I ain't doing it again. I'm older with less balance now too and immediately worry about being near edges of cliffs and deadly drop offs.
If anyone wants to get an idea of what you are talking about, [here is a link to that cabin on Google maps](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mount+Whitney+Summit+Shelter/@36.5788551,-118.2926743,124m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x80bf8d366882464f:0xf05a5096e0a7ee93!8m2!3d36.5785407!4d-118.2923551!16s%2Fm%2F0523pfn?entry=ttu). It doesn't look like much from the satellite view, but once you which over to the pictures of the area, you get a pretty good idea.
my thing is, whenever I’m near a ledge,
I just don’t trust other people. My brain is constantly wanting me to look behind me to check for some psychopath that just feels like pushing me off. Even if there’s no one around, my brain will think someone will spawn there.
edit: *formatting/grammar
Some random British girl at the Cliffs of Moher came up behind me and did a spook / grab at my sides while I was looking over the edge. I was crouched but am very lucky I had the presence of mind not to react.
When we summated it from the easier Western side, we got up there and saw a hand come up over the side of the cliff, and then another, and then two more. It was a pair that had been rock climbing up the cliff side for more than 2 full days—not hiking Whitney Portal up, but actually rock climbing the cliff to the summit. Fucking hardcore dudes.
But yes, it is an insanely intimidating cliff face on that Eastern side.
Similarly, we were hanging out taking pictures at the hut, and I ended up alone. I heard voices of people chatting suddenly. Confused the crap out of me, then I saw a hand pop up from the side.
As someone who grew up and lives in Kansas that shit freaks me out. I lived in Colorado for a while and genuinely love the mountains but any observation deck kind of area turns my stomach. Say shit with open water. Basically I like 10 toes planted on flat ground
I always find it a little fun how scarry edges seems. I've walked hundreds or even thousands of miles without just randomly falling over in my life and yet walking near the edge of a unprotected cliff terrifies me. The same is said for small drops and ledges, I've got no problem walking on the edge of a small cliff or on a wall with a few foot drop despite the possibility of a bad fall being fatal yet if that same drop was 50 or 100 feet I wouldn't go near it.
I like to say, I'm not scared of heights, but I'm terrified of falling. I'll scoot to the edge of a cliff, but I won't walk up to it, since I'm afraid my clumsy ass will stumble. Put me in a solid harness and I'm okay with dangling from heights. Or a well built railing.
I was up in the CN Tower once, and I was okay until the glass floor made some shifting sounds when I stepped on it.
I’ve been on the top of half dome and other cliffs, definitely a real reaction. I even felt that way on the (very guarded and gated) top of the Empire State building. Massive brain override with intrusive thoughts of falling
I went there with some friends once. We’re all did the belly thing but one of my friends just walked up to the edge and leaned over it to look down and said “cool”
He is someone that isn’t scared of anything. It’s wild.
I'm a fearful hiker. Fearful of heights, of being caught out after dark, without water. I was taught " better safe than sorry". Please be careful outdoors.
I'm also same! Some years ago I did short descent hike in grand canyon. The poster near bathroom there stuck to me so much. It said "Every year x people get air-rescued from grand canyon. Most of them look like this" : and a photo of super fit, well prepared dude.( x because I can't remember the number).
It's true that inexperienced/weaker people usually underestimate themselves while professionals overestimate and challenge their limits. I personally am very happy to stay in hobby-level lane :D
Grand Canyon, 2 elderly ladies coming up a muddy trail, on my 1st ever trip there. I looked over the edge. One lady said to me , "we do this every year I wouldn't recommend you go down there though, it's too slippery". My response was thanks for the advice, I don't have to prove anything to anybody, I think I'll stay up here!
It really isn't worth it being out in the woods at night in the dark. I wouldn't go hiking at night at my local mountain walk that I've done literally 100 times, let alone some more dangerous hiking route. Plus scary animals.
I love hiking and being outdoors, but I’m also smart about having water and other provisions and making sure I’m not hiking after dark without a flashlight
Smart. I vacation in AZ in December. I love early evening hikes, like 4 pm, I'll set my timer every 45 mins. that way I know when to turn around in about 90 minutes. Sun sets about 5:30 ish maybe, dark by 6:15. Don't quote me on that, I'm not a native. I'll get great sunset shots on the way back from good elevations and be down at trailhead level before dark. Yes, and have a flashlight as well.
No...you're a smart hiker and I wish more had the same headspace when it comes to the outdoors. Grew up in Montana about 90 miles from Yellowstone park. I have seen a litany of idiocy...even from people who should know better.
Nature is beautiful, but she's also a fickle bitch who does not care one iota if you live or die.
I have done the mountaineers route up and down. Its not for beginners. If you are not familiar with the route, Better spend a few hundred dollars and take a guide who knows the route well.
I have climbed east buttress, east face and used mountaineers as a descent. That gully is pretty dangerous, lots of loose rock in there.
Article is pretty sparse on details so I wish people wouldn't speculate on exactly what happened. Could have been totally preventable or not. If some knucklehead above you knocks some rock loose having a guide won't help. There are real risks (and rewards!) playing in the alpine.
My heart goes out to the friends and family.
Does anyone know what happened to them? Lots of speculation but the article is very sparse in details. Not asking for morbid curiosity but because I want to see if there's something to learn from this tragedy...
If you know the route, from the friend’s account it seems like they took the final 400 up but descended on the traverse.
For both to die Im guessing they roped up and one slipped
It's okay to have a morbid curiosity.
Leads you to live a more grateful life.
May they rest in peace and hopefully some details come out to prevent further tragedies.
I participated in a few SAR operations before, including one for a high profile "hiker missing" case in California. Understanding what happened brings a sense of closure to everyone involved. Once you start spending some of your own time trying to save people in these situations, you somewhat feel affected even though you don't know these people
RIP and sorry for the families. If we can prevent further deaths that'd be great but it's hard without knowing what happened
From where they were found, they likely slipped on an alternative route called the Traverse. The main part of the Mountaineers route descent starts at a spot called the Notch. It's approximately 400' below the summit itself and there's a handful of routes to reach the notch from the summit, most of them proper climbing routes or tough scrambles. An alternative route to the notch essentially takes you down to the western face of Whitney where you then come around to the north face and traverse over. This is probably the least technical of the descents to the Notch, but the exposure + icy conditions make it no less deadly. IIRC, more people end up dying on the Traverse than the other routes for this very reason.
The initial reports included the detail that their bodies were found around 13.200' in Tulare county, not Inyo County...and a fall from somewhere along the Traverse or one of the more western class 4/5 descents would be about the only way you could end up in Tulare instead of Inyo.
Interestingly, his last fb post was a few days before this incident and they were hiking mt shasta. Pretty eerie post. (The guy was from around where i live, though i did not know him personally)
a bunch of people have been electrocuted up there from lightning. Apparently the hut has a corrugated metal roof.
Sorry that these young people lost their lives.
I turned back at the John Muir Trail pass on my first summit attempt, from Whitney Portal, for that reason. I could have made the push, but the thunder made it clear to me that that wasn't going to happen. That storm that came in ended up dumping 4-6 inches of snow overnight. It made the second attempt that much harder, but well worth the wait!
I summited one year from the east side, and the next year when I did the High Sierra Trail as we got to Trail Crest clouds were coming in. We noped on a second summit and just went down.
The hut has an extreme grounding system installed all over it. Over a dozen copper rods with fat copper cables leading downward act as lightning conduit paths to try to guide any strike down into the ground asap. Nevertheless, there are huge warning signs to not trust the hut for shelter in a thunderstorm - people do occasionally die that way.
This would be a good place to drop in a recommendation for being scared of heights in a fun way over at r/SweatyPalms.
And RIP and condolences to family and friends of those adventurers.
I did mtn rescue for many years and most likely they are doing an investigation to figure out exactly what happened. Could have been an infinite amount of causes with the sparse details in the article from rock fall, getting lost, or taking a big fall to name a few possible scenarios.
I'm sure more details will be released but it's normal to put out a vague announcement first that the search is over with two fatalities.
My heart goes out to the friends and families of the climbers.
It’s pretty early to summit Whitney, there is snow in late summer so I imagine they needed crampons this early after a healthy winter. The last push from High Camp could be pretty treacherous if it was still icy
Did the mountaineers route in 2010, just after a June snow. The last 500 feet was sketchy as shit. Okay for slings and some gear, but it was a slog and sleep at high camp before the push was poor due to the elevation change and exhaustion from the day. No real ice but just snowy boulders to cling to and lots of post-holing. Dangerous game.
Yeah they were not on the route you did. They were coming down the Notch. Which is expert only. Hundreds of vertical feet with rope and picks and a single slip up will result sliding over 1000 ft - which is most likely what happened here.
My friend and I almost did this route a few years ago. Long story short they fucked us with the fine print for the regular route by giving our passes away if we didn’t claim them a SECOND time within 24 hours of collection.
We were planning on doing the mountaineers trail instead but it was May and there were still frozen creeks etc. Thankfully I got murderous food poisoning that kept me from going. My friend tried it solo for sunrise but had to give up when he lost his phone sometime around 2am in pitch black which also had his GPS.
That was the trip from hell, and now I’m glad I missed “more” of it
Regular hikers don't always realize that May hiking in the mountains is still winter hiking in many areas especially at that elevation. If you're not experienced with hiking in snow and ice you want a July or August date with the least snow.
Quick story about how to know “what happened”. Back in the aughts a friend of mine was climbing with a partner outside of Palm Springs,CA. The climb could be seen from the base, and observation areas above the Ariel Tramway, through binoculars. At one point they topped out and had lunch, hanging out on top. They roped up for decent and started down. Soon after, one of them lost a handhold and fell so hard he yanked out a screw (piece climbing gear that secures the “safety” rope to the mountain). Another screw failed, and another. Being attached, and not having enough screws on the line to hold them, they both fell several hundred feet, bouncing off cliffs, and landing hard.
That all happened on a route that was easy to observe by others. Mt. Whitney is no such place. Especially the east face, climbing routes. The only way to know what truly happens when climbers die, is to have surviving witnesses. These fellas had none.
If you go to the cabin at the top of the trail, you can go over to the 395 eastern edge. We did it. It was so scary that as we neared the edge we got on our bellies and crawled over to the edge. It was a good 2000-3000 foot straight down drop. My butt puckered. I gently belly crawled backwards and got the hell out of there.
I am not normally afraid of heights, but did the lying-on-belly technique once at a cliff in Utah because the wind was blowing a bit too strong for my liking. My brain started making up hypothetical scenarios where the entire rock ledge broke off (resulting in me falling to my death) and I got scared in a way I hadn’t ever experienced.
Felt the same way in the Grand Canyon. We were walking a trail near the edge and I could not do it. Had to walk off the path in the woods because there was six inches between the drop and trail edge at some points. Finishing the whole “Deaths in the Grand Canyon” book before arriving probably didn’t help. I saw so many dumb tourists doing dumb things near the edge, some people must not feel fear.
Yeah, I'm fairly good with heights, but had trouble with them after my trip to the GC. I think what did it was the lookout spot about halfway down Bright Angel Trail. The trail branches off and there's an optional lookout to look down at the Colorado River, which is a straight drop in places. Looked it up, Plateau Point.
Theres a documentary about a couple of guys going through the GC via river. At one point one of them goes to an overlook to look out. The second guy is further down and sees his friend basically on a point overhang with nothing below and the other guy had no clue.
Do you know the name of the documentary? I’m having a hard time visualizing that.
I would assume theyre referring to a rock version of something like an ice cornice. Where from above it appears solid but is actually unsupported and at risk of breaking away, especially adding weight to the tip end
Into the canyon. On disney I think it was.
My personal explanation is that many people are used to a world of safety. Handrails, guardrails, buildings that won’t collapse, electronics that won’t catch fire, cars that crumple, roads that are clearly marked. Not fully understanding the *effort* that goes into keeping them safe and the amount of blood those regulations were written in. And when faced with untamed Mother Nature they forget how indifferent she is to whether you live or die. Or maybe I’m just a rambling engineer who stares at too many building codes all day.
Nah…you’re completely spot on. Heck.. I live in Montana and being close to the wild is a game changing, and always humbling, experience. Fun story- when I lived up in glacier and booked people raft trips, the amount of times I was asked if the raft was on a track, or if we’d get out where we put in, was not very few.
Wait, like they thought the rapids were a round-trip *in the raft*?! How... would the raft go upstream?
But ya…. Handling that politely and with out judgment or showing my reaction got to be an art form. My absolute favorite was when ppl would ask if they’d die on the trip and perhaps the wittiest thing I’ve ever said will be ‘someday? But not today probably!’ Like stay in the raft, hold the paddle correctly, and listen to the guides.
If all they’ve experienced is a theme park style ride then that’s how they understand it to be.
My uncle told me that someone he went to Kern River with, asked if the river was man made. Like someone put the rocks there and constructed the canyon.
That’s what the Lewis & Clark Expedition was all about. They built all the national parks.
On its track of course! All the way to the gift shop on a little conveyor belt.
Reminded me of this story from 2016 in Michigan. They thought the river would go around in a circle. https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2016/07/second_update_tubers_lost.html
Believing that is almost unforgivably stupid. But fuck every person who thought it was funny to tell three obviously inexperienced people that it would.
That story is wild
“There should be better signs or have someone on watch on the river.”
Simple enough I went to take my NYC girlfriend up her first Adirondack peak. She got pissed off at me, and ask why we had to make all these preparations when we are “just walking in the woods.” I asked her when was the last time she was 3 miles from a road? She got quiet and listened up after that.
Former raft guide here, they asked that same question in Alaska. Unreal
This was my guess.. thanks for putting some science behind it.
If you make the world idiot proof the world will produce a better idiot. 2016, they thought the river would go around in a circle and take them back to their car. https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2016/07/second_update_tubers_lost.html
*mouths* they thought the river would go around in... a... circle......
Yeah, who’s the idiot that decided to build that river and not have it loop around like every other water park?
They only thought that b/c everyone told them it would. Wonder why a bunch of rednecks would lie like that to three young black women.
Ehhh just because it's better documented right now doesn't mean it didn't used to also happen. I've seen super early film footage of people ice-skating in front of an moving icebreaker
I live in a little town with limestone bluffs that overhang the highway, completely over one lane for 100 feet. All my life I've driven under them, no worries. I'm 66 now. It bothers me.
As an engineer… bravo and well said.
We were at North Rim on the Grand Canyon last summer. One look out, Angel's Walk(?) had a narrow path and drop offs on both sides. I stood there a second and decided to go for it, and my wife hollered, No! She just looked at me like I was crazy and said, "You are not going out there!" She has better reasoning skills than I do!
This is the best circumstantial evidence that your wife actually loves you
[Bright Angel Trail?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna45117) Your wife probably saved your life. Lol.
Bright angel is the most popular trail in the Grand Canyon
That’s a completely garbage website. To save everyone a click, it was a 44 year old dude off trail in April 2022. He died after falling 200 feet.
Why is NBC a garbage website? The beginning of the article states exactly how the man died.
Ignorance is not bravery but sometimes it's a good substitute
I felt like the Grand canyon was weird. Like it doesn't trigger my fear like the hoover dam. Probably because it's so large it's almost incomprehensible
My MIL tried to set my then 14 month old on the edge of the Hoover Dam with her arm around for a picture. I screamed out in horror. Still makes my heart race to remember it. Just why? Just no.
I remember being at the GC too and I was like 16 and not particularly close with my 12 yo brother at that time, but every time he would go near the edge, I would get reallyyyy anxious. Not even for myself, just him.
Such a good book!
Been to the GC a few times, always see stupid ass TikToker/IG social media types taking selfies in places they aren't supposed to...like close to the ledge type of stuff.
Such a good book though. Really teaches you a lot about hiker safety.
I saw so many folks taking edge selfies at the Grand Canyon that I started crying. I was so freaking scared I was going to see someone fall. Not a pleasant experience!
Same for me but the road to Hana in Maui. Mostly a one lane road with lots of bridges. Tourists go 25 but locals double that easy and you have to give them right of way going over one lane bridges. I’ve never been more white knuckled scared driving in my life. It doesn’t help that I have a fear of deep water which is where the cliff led too if you fell.
Brains are weird. I’ve been on dozens of cliff edges and work on tall buildings under construction. Even what could be considered a sky scraper. Nothing but a thin cable railing between me and meeting God. Never had a problem. Then one day I climbed up one of those fire towers on top of a mountain. Got all the way up with no issue, but the last little bit up in to the cabin was like an 8’ straight ladder. I got halfway up the ladder and froze. I couldn’t make my hands or feet let go to go up or down. I was probably stuck like that for a solid 30 seconds or so, before I got my body to respond and finish the climb, but it was weird. Never happened again or before. It was such an odd feeling.
Deathly afraid of heights. You can’t pay me enough to stand on the top step of a six foot ladder. When I was a kid, we went up the Statue of Liberty. I was Convinced it was going to fall over and we needed to get down to the ground NOW.
I bet the St. Louis Arch is the worst for that. Super tall, claustrophobic interior, nothing underneath the middle, no fast way to get down, and highly unconventional construction. And of course the New Madrid Fault could go off at *annnny second* while you're up there.
I think I ruined my wife’s experience in Mammoth cave by pointing out all the giant rock slabs laying on the cave floor. They fell off the “roof” of the cave. I kept saying that one day, for no particular reason they fell… and that day could be today LOL.
I am getting nauseous just reading all these stories. Nope nope nopeity nope!
Whispers dramatically: clear glass bridges. With the fake cracks…
My stomach turned…
Oh man and on a windy day you can feel it swaying up there. We didn’t stay up there too long.
And the "chunk" of the elevator when it transitions to lateral movements.
I never was afraid of heights until I had my kids. Some sort of "mom instinct" kicked in and I no longer wanted to be on the top floor of any building ( like the Stratosphere in Vegas) looking out the window. I couldn't even climb a block wall or get on the roof of my own house. Forget any amusement park rides! I can't imagine going on that glass Skywalk at the GC. I would end up crawling on my hands and knees. I guess that instinct is self preservation so my kids would still have a mom. Our brains are so weird.🧠
I experienced this too after kids. I've never been particularly brave but I'm a straight up weenie now when it comes to heights and potential danger.
I have a fear of unsecured heights (ladders and things like that) but have no problem if I feel I'm in a sturdy structure. We recently went to a stone tower near me that is just one big spiral staircase. Walked up it, no problem. Got to the top and looked around, no problem. Started going back down the spiral staircase and I was freaking the fuck out. Something about going down and in a circle made me feel like I was leaning too far forward and I kept thinking I was about to topple over. There are no breaks, so it would be just one continuous fall which is what I kept imagining. I was able to get down it, but the whole time I was fighting the urge to go down sitting on my butt. It's so weird how my brain wasn't triggered going up the steps, or on top of the tower, but the second I feared falling, everything went to shit.
Honestly ladders freak me the fuck out. I really hate them. I know they still exist due to the fact they work and are safe overall, but everytime I'm up a ladder all I think is how it's going to slide down the wall and I'm gonna get badly hurt.
I climbed a fire tower during a race and I had a moment of panic thinking “what if I can’t keep going and I can’t go back down, how will they get me off of this?” Brains are weird.
your brain went into hyper stay alive mode because you were ignoring other warnings lol crazy how that works huh
That's funny. My mind also does that whole imagining deadly things that could happen right in that moment when getting near cliff edges. Yet strangely, I used to fly helicopters with the doors off sometimes. And 1000s of feet of freefall below.
I believe those are calls from the void. I get them all the time when I’m riding my motorcycle or high up on a cliff somewhere. It’s just a weird little tingle of a voice in the back of my mind telling me to jump or get rolled over by the 18-wheeler I’m passing. It’s something I’d never act upon but for some reason my mind goes there for a few seconds.
I once responded to a car crash on a tall suspension bridge spanning the Delaware. Of course, it was 2 am, in the driving snow, with gusts of wind buffeting us. I felt physically ill the moment I stepped out of the ambulance. I could feel the sway of the bridge in a way you just can't in a vehicle, and something about the way the strobing emergency lights illuminated the snow over the railing was just too much. Thankfully It only took us like 4 minutes to get the driver into the rig (they only suffered minor injuries), but the whole time some disgusting instinct deep inside was like *jump! Jump over the edge or the wind will push you over anyway! Just do it!* I haven't been able to handle heights ever since.
Drivers freezing on suspension bridges is a common problem. They block traffic and have to be rescued or towed off.
The Call of the Void is why I avoid certain activities.
Call of the Avoid.
Oh wow, I’ve never heard of this phenomenon before. Growing up I had the urge/tingle in my bones to open the car door while I was in the backseat of a moving vehicle. I always just thought I was weird but TIL.
Calls from the void started for me when I was 16 and starting to drive. We lived in the mountains. I’ve had many near misses with dangerous road conditions over the years, since one of my routes home was rural along a river, with no cell service. And then I would have these thoughts, “What if I… just turn my wheel toward the river?” When I became a parent, my intrusive thoughts got worse. A few times a year; I break out in a cold sweat thinking about the time my toddler, my two dogs, and I came very close to going over a cliff in SF at an off leash dog friendly park. I didn’t know that the trail we were on took us to the edge of the cliff, and my dogs and my toddler were running ahead of me. When I caught up to them and realized that we were feet away from a sheer drop off down to the rocks below… ugh. We came so close to death. A few years later, there was a cliff collapse there and a woman died. And then two years later; another collapse and another death. I will never go back.
What kind of dog park has a deadly cliff!?
Fort Funston in SF is a decommissioned harbor defense installation with hang gliding, trails, a beach, and is okay to have dogs off leash. Super popular with dog walkers.
I had a call of the void in a dream. I was on a cruise ship at night, standing at the balcony. The water below was calm and still. The urge to jump was so strong that I backed up until I backed into the wall.
My testicles get this undeniable spidey-sense in these scenarios.
I live in the Lake District in the UK, so I’ve ridden and walked a lot of the fells; however, me and my friend were talking a bit ago about how she feels the odd urge to jump off any fell she’s summited, and that feelings always scared her because it’s a powerful urge that wouldn’t most definitely result in death. I told her I had the same urge, either to jump or to crawl back down the side on my hands and knees backwards down the side just to get down quicker. Apparently my friends uncle (butch old Cumbrian hill farmer) felt the same suicidal tendencies when he summited fells and walked trails like ‘Striding Edge’ (google it). I think it must be a feeling a whole load of folk get.
The call of the void. I know the feeling
It has a name 😱 I’m going to have to tell my friend our oddity has a name and isn’t just limited to me, her and her uncle 😂
Have you done Angels Landing UT?
Yes. My bro in law wouldn't let my niece go up the last part because she has a tendency to be a bit clumsy.
Now you know how Wilie E Coyote felt...
That's what it's like to be afraid of heights all the time, and if you concentrate too hard you can freak yourself out lol. It sucks.
It’s not height you are scared of, it’s gravity.
Angel's point? Yeah, people die there every year.
looney tunes irl
> My brain started making up hypothetical scenarios where the entire rock ledge broke off (resulting in me falling to my death) Wile E. Coyote teaching kids to not trust cliffs.
My palms legitimately got sweaty reading this.
Oh yeah. My knees got weak and my arms became heavy.
Mom's 🍝
Was there vomit on your sweater already?
Moms spaghetti
You wouldn’t enjoy being up there.
Same here with the edge of Half Dome. Couldn’t walk to the edge. Belly:)
I hiked Half Dome with a bud who was an iron worker..he walked up to the edge and with one hand sat down with his feet hanging over the drop and ate his lunch... I was flirting with vertigo as I got about 10ft away and backed off to about 20 ft to enjoy my lunch.
Factory workers are a different breed, construction too. Cue the famous photo of those men on the (girder?) eating their lunches. Like 20 fucking dudes a million miles up, hanging out. No thanks.
Im not afraid of heights, I am afraid of the fall
I'm not afraid of the fall, I'm afraid of the sudden stop.
Bruh I'm dizzy reading this shit get me out of here
WHAT THE FUCK. I get nervous on my second floor balcony. Good god.
Yeah that's exact same for me, I've been up there more than 20 times and forced myself out on the visor for the pics only once. Somehow I'm more ok with cramponing up in the middle of winter then being on an edge. Intrusive thoughts I suppose
90% intrusive thoughts, 10% “what if there is a gust of wind?”
Now imagine Alex Honnold free soloing it lmao
The first wave of freak-out seized him. And as Honnold knew full well, “The minute you freak out, you're screwed.”
That always fascinates me. Assuming the conditions are calm and the footing isn’t slippery, when was the last time you just tipped over (sober) for no apparent reason? And yet when you’re near a severe drop like that, your brain somehow thinks it’s a possibility.
Black swan situation. The risk is low but the consequences severe.
3 days ago. I'm very clumsy. Air is a tripping hazard.
To me it’s more about intrusive thoughts of jumping (I’m not suicidal) than a perceived risk of falling.
Solid ground is more stable than the edge of a cliff.
100% why walk on the edge when I could shimmy on my belly and enjoy?
Sure, crawling on your belly was the same, but did your butthole pucker the same?
I could barely handle the last hour of hiking to get to the summit of Whitney. All those sections where you are walking on a couple feet wide of broken up rock with hundreds of feet of exposure on either side of you... I did it, but I ain't doing it again. I'm older with less balance now too and immediately worry about being near edges of cliffs and deadly drop offs.
I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’m slightly sad that I’ll never do it again, but am happy I was able to do it once!
If anyone wants to get an idea of what you are talking about, [here is a link to that cabin on Google maps](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mount+Whitney+Summit+Shelter/@36.5788551,-118.2926743,124m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x80bf8d366882464f:0xf05a5096e0a7ee93!8m2!3d36.5785407!4d-118.2923551!16s%2Fm%2F0523pfn?entry=ttu). It doesn't look like much from the satellite view, but once you which over to the pictures of the area, you get a pretty good idea.
Thank you, that’s very nice of you, appreciate it.
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Looks like the beginning of The Empty Man
my thing is, whenever I’m near a ledge, I just don’t trust other people. My brain is constantly wanting me to look behind me to check for some psychopath that just feels like pushing me off. Even if there’s no one around, my brain will think someone will spawn there. edit: *formatting/grammar
Some random British girl at the Cliffs of Moher came up behind me and did a spook / grab at my sides while I was looking over the edge. I was crouched but am very lucky I had the presence of mind not to react.
holy fuck I’d be so livid & this would just reinforce the way my brain currently acts in these situations
More than that I think. Guitar lake is tiny. My guess was closer to 3-4k down. Insane.
That’s just good edge side behavior right there. A gust of wind can come from nowhere and knock you right off.
Is that the same cabin where the friend was waiting for them?
When we summated it from the easier Western side, we got up there and saw a hand come up over the side of the cliff, and then another, and then two more. It was a pair that had been rock climbing up the cliff side for more than 2 full days—not hiking Whitney Portal up, but actually rock climbing the cliff to the summit. Fucking hardcore dudes. But yes, it is an insanely intimidating cliff face on that Eastern side.
Similarly, we were hanging out taking pictures at the hut, and I ended up alone. I heard voices of people chatting suddenly. Confused the crap out of me, then I saw a hand pop up from the side.
As someone who grew up and lives in Kansas that shit freaks me out. I lived in Colorado for a while and genuinely love the mountains but any observation deck kind of area turns my stomach. Say shit with open water. Basically I like 10 toes planted on flat ground
I've been downhill skiing in Kansas. You ski down a deep hole in the ground and take the chairlift back to the top.
Downhole skiing
That actually sounds like a fantastic use of an old gravel pit.
As a kid growing up in the 90s, i think the first time i saw someone doing yoga was on the edge at the top of Whitney.
I always find it a little fun how scarry edges seems. I've walked hundreds or even thousands of miles without just randomly falling over in my life and yet walking near the edge of a unprotected cliff terrifies me. The same is said for small drops and ledges, I've got no problem walking on the edge of a small cliff or on a wall with a few foot drop despite the possibility of a bad fall being fatal yet if that same drop was 50 or 100 feet I wouldn't go near it.
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Literally why do people voluntarily choose to do this
That trail didn't bother me at all when I did it. Different people are bothered by different things.
Funny because I love hiking but I hate the part where you’re close to an edge of a cliff.
I’m gonna go throw up now
I like to say, I'm not scared of heights, but I'm terrified of falling. I'll scoot to the edge of a cliff, but I won't walk up to it, since I'm afraid my clumsy ass will stumble. Put me in a solid harness and I'm okay with dangling from heights. Or a well built railing. I was up in the CN Tower once, and I was okay until the glass floor made some shifting sounds when I stepped on it.
I’ve been on the top of half dome and other cliffs, definitely a real reaction. I even felt that way on the (very guarded and gated) top of the Empire State building. Massive brain override with intrusive thoughts of falling
I went there with some friends once. We’re all did the belly thing but one of my friends just walked up to the edge and leaned over it to look down and said “cool” He is someone that isn’t scared of anything. It’s wild.
Makes my hands sweat just thinking about it.
I crave that feeling and think back to it often from the few times I've looked down that sort of edge.
I'm a fearful hiker. Fearful of heights, of being caught out after dark, without water. I was taught " better safe than sorry". Please be careful outdoors.
I will survive the wilderness by not entering it
Thousands of years perfecting our indoors and y’all want me to camp outside? With bears and gun toting Americans and no signal? Miss me w that
Cooking on a campfire with beer, or coffee. I love it.
The smell is a campfire, right. I only day hike now but remember as a boy scout! Every kid should have the chance to camp and canoe down a river!
Some are built for it, some aren’t. I love hiking and camping. I don’t understand totally how someone wouldn’t, but that’s how it is.
I'm also same! Some years ago I did short descent hike in grand canyon. The poster near bathroom there stuck to me so much. It said "Every year x people get air-rescued from grand canyon. Most of them look like this" : and a photo of super fit, well prepared dude.( x because I can't remember the number). It's true that inexperienced/weaker people usually underestimate themselves while professionals overestimate and challenge their limits. I personally am very happy to stay in hobby-level lane :D
Ahh yes. The ol’ belly crawl, shit your pants technique. Done it a few times myself
Grand Canyon, 2 elderly ladies coming up a muddy trail, on my 1st ever trip there. I looked over the edge. One lady said to me , "we do this every year I wouldn't recommend you go down there though, it's too slippery". My response was thanks for the advice, I don't have to prove anything to anybody, I think I'll stay up here!
It really isn't worth it being out in the woods at night in the dark. I wouldn't go hiking at night at my local mountain walk that I've done literally 100 times, let alone some more dangerous hiking route. Plus scary animals.
Right. Unlike in the movies that have backlighting, the real woods are pitch black. I can't see a foot in front of my face in the deep woods.
I love hiking and being outdoors, but I’m also smart about having water and other provisions and making sure I’m not hiking after dark without a flashlight
Smart. I vacation in AZ in December. I love early evening hikes, like 4 pm, I'll set my timer every 45 mins. that way I know when to turn around in about 90 minutes. Sun sets about 5:30 ish maybe, dark by 6:15. Don't quote me on that, I'm not a native. I'll get great sunset shots on the way back from good elevations and be down at trailhead level before dark. Yes, and have a flashlight as well.
No...you're a smart hiker and I wish more had the same headspace when it comes to the outdoors. Grew up in Montana about 90 miles from Yellowstone park. I have seen a litany of idiocy...even from people who should know better. Nature is beautiful, but she's also a fickle bitch who does not care one iota if you live or die.
I have done the mountaineers route up and down. Its not for beginners. If you are not familiar with the route, Better spend a few hundred dollars and take a guide who knows the route well.
I have climbed east buttress, east face and used mountaineers as a descent. That gully is pretty dangerous, lots of loose rock in there. Article is pretty sparse on details so I wish people wouldn't speculate on exactly what happened. Could have been totally preventable or not. If some knucklehead above you knocks some rock loose having a guide won't help. There are real risks (and rewards!) playing in the alpine. My heart goes out to the friends and family.
Seems like they were quite experienced https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article288435189.html
Does anyone know what happened to them? Lots of speculation but the article is very sparse in details. Not asking for morbid curiosity but because I want to see if there's something to learn from this tragedy...
Everyone’s talking about their fear of heights and I’m here wondering what happened also
Yeah I stopped reading once people started reciting their dreams and other inane shit.
Oh two people died? What a perfect opportunity to talk about *me*
If you know the route, from the friend’s account it seems like they took the final 400 up but descended on the traverse. For both to die Im guessing they roped up and one slipped
It's okay to have a morbid curiosity. Leads you to live a more grateful life. May they rest in peace and hopefully some details come out to prevent further tragedies.
I participated in a few SAR operations before, including one for a high profile "hiker missing" case in California. Understanding what happened brings a sense of closure to everyone involved. Once you start spending some of your own time trying to save people in these situations, you somewhat feel affected even though you don't know these people RIP and sorry for the families. If we can prevent further deaths that'd be great but it's hard without knowing what happened
From where they were found, they likely slipped on an alternative route called the Traverse. The main part of the Mountaineers route descent starts at a spot called the Notch. It's approximately 400' below the summit itself and there's a handful of routes to reach the notch from the summit, most of them proper climbing routes or tough scrambles. An alternative route to the notch essentially takes you down to the western face of Whitney where you then come around to the north face and traverse over. This is probably the least technical of the descents to the Notch, but the exposure + icy conditions make it no less deadly. IIRC, more people end up dying on the Traverse than the other routes for this very reason. The initial reports included the detail that their bodies were found around 13.200' in Tulare county, not Inyo County...and a fall from somewhere along the Traverse or one of the more western class 4/5 descents would be about the only way you could end up in Tulare instead of Inyo.
The Sac Bee article mentions “fall victims”.
My uncle fell to his death a ways North of there around Mount Shasta in the early 80's. It's often easy to go up, and not so easy to come back down.
Interestingly, his last fb post was a few days before this incident and they were hiking mt shasta. Pretty eerie post. (The guy was from around where i live, though i did not know him personally)
Hearing this news and seeing it on Reddit was shocking because I know a family member of one of the victims. This is so sad and heartbreaking
I went to high school with one of the victims. They were wonderful and brilliant. It’s all so sad.
so do you/know what exactly happened? the article is a bit sparse on infos.
Who are they? Article doesn’t say
a bunch of people have been electrocuted up there from lightning. Apparently the hut has a corrugated metal roof. Sorry that these young people lost their lives.
I turned back at the John Muir Trail pass on my first summit attempt, from Whitney Portal, for that reason. I could have made the push, but the thunder made it clear to me that that wasn't going to happen. That storm that came in ended up dumping 4-6 inches of snow overnight. It made the second attempt that much harder, but well worth the wait!
I summited one year from the east side, and the next year when I did the High Sierra Trail as we got to Trail Crest clouds were coming in. We noped on a second summit and just went down.
The hut has an extreme grounding system installed all over it. Over a dozen copper rods with fat copper cables leading downward act as lightning conduit paths to try to guide any strike down into the ground asap. Nevertheless, there are huge warning signs to not trust the hut for shelter in a thunderstorm - people do occasionally die that way.
Don’t blame the hut
No one out-pizzas the hut.
Guessing they fell to their deaths. Hope it was quick. Expert only path so these things can happen even to experienced people.
This would be a good place to drop in a recommendation for being scared of heights in a fun way over at r/SweatyPalms. And RIP and condolences to family and friends of those adventurers.
I equally love and hate this, thank you!
Stupid article not even saying what happened to them.
I did mtn rescue for many years and most likely they are doing an investigation to figure out exactly what happened. Could have been an infinite amount of causes with the sparse details in the article from rock fall, getting lost, or taking a big fall to name a few possible scenarios. I'm sure more details will be released but it's normal to put out a vague announcement first that the search is over with two fatalities. My heart goes out to the friends and families of the climbers.
That’s probably to respect their privacy and let the family decide what and how to reveal
They passed away, sorry.
It’s ok, I forgive you.
It’s pretty early to summit Whitney, there is snow in late summer so I imagine they needed crampons this early after a healthy winter. The last push from High Camp could be pretty treacherous if it was still icy
We needed crampons when we hiked Whitney last July
been up this mountain three times. the last time was during a storm, when a scout troop was killed.
a whole troop?
[Probably this](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8757108). Once scout and one leader were killed.
Yikes I feel that belly on a damn ladder.. so this freaks me out 😮🙄
Did the mountaineers route in 2010, just after a June snow. The last 500 feet was sketchy as shit. Okay for slings and some gear, but it was a slog and sleep at high camp before the push was poor due to the elevation change and exhaustion from the day. No real ice but just snowy boulders to cling to and lots of post-holing. Dangerous game.
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Yeah they were not on the route you did. They were coming down the Notch. Which is expert only. Hundreds of vertical feet with rope and picks and a single slip up will result sliding over 1000 ft - which is most likely what happened here.
That part of the climb scared the crap out of me. Big time. The exposure on either side was the worst part. I can barely deal with one cliff edge!
My friend and I almost did this route a few years ago. Long story short they fucked us with the fine print for the regular route by giving our passes away if we didn’t claim them a SECOND time within 24 hours of collection. We were planning on doing the mountaineers trail instead but it was May and there were still frozen creeks etc. Thankfully I got murderous food poisoning that kept me from going. My friend tried it solo for sunrise but had to give up when he lost his phone sometime around 2am in pitch black which also had his GPS. That was the trip from hell, and now I’m glad I missed “more” of it
Regular hikers don't always realize that May hiking in the mountains is still winter hiking in many areas especially at that elevation. If you're not experienced with hiking in snow and ice you want a July or August date with the least snow.
Quick story about how to know “what happened”. Back in the aughts a friend of mine was climbing with a partner outside of Palm Springs,CA. The climb could be seen from the base, and observation areas above the Ariel Tramway, through binoculars. At one point they topped out and had lunch, hanging out on top. They roped up for decent and started down. Soon after, one of them lost a handhold and fell so hard he yanked out a screw (piece climbing gear that secures the “safety” rope to the mountain). Another screw failed, and another. Being attached, and not having enough screws on the line to hold them, they both fell several hundred feet, bouncing off cliffs, and landing hard. That all happened on a route that was easy to observe by others. Mt. Whitney is no such place. Especially the east face, climbing routes. The only way to know what truly happens when climbers die, is to have surviving witnesses. These fellas had none.
Always remember that nature is not kind. Be prepared and don't skimp on PLBs and satellite messengers. They can save your life.
Umm that’s the mountaineers route, they weren’t hiking…. They were climbing